Tally, I can’t thank you enough for spending lots of time with me to get my rig working perfectly. It took some serious doing but I’m all the way in now and will be buying these lenses
I loved the picture clarity of the Crystalzz so clear and nice colors. Great Audio to.. to bad it is so uncomfortable and heavy that I was forced to resell it. I tried everything to make it comfortable but nothing worked for me. after 10 min it was pushing on my nose bones that caused me pain. Now I have the Q3, yes it’s isn’t clear as the Crystal but with Bobo S3 head strap it’s so comfortable .
I put counterweights (nightvision goggles ones) on the back just above the battery pack and a comfort strap and it now feels like it's floating on my head.
@@laartwork I tried that also and adding more weight to counter an already heavy HMD just made the experience worse. I added a Bob M3 to my Quest3 and soo much more enjoyable experience.
Great video as always TallyMouse! Thanks for taking the time to make sure the lenses were installed properly and letting the viewers know that exactly what you had tried to fix the issue. After writing off Pimax for years, I finally felt it was time to go be Pimax a legit chance for VR and purchased my Crystal in January. I’m glad I gave them a chance because I have had an excellent experience thus far. Minor learning pains but that comes with all VR headsets. The Crystal is now my favorite VR HMD available and my Varjo Aero is now packed away. But I purchased the Crystal in anticipation for these wide FOV lenses. Even without the wide FOV lenses, it’s an incredible experience but your video has me beyond excited to get my wide FOV lenses delivered. Do you happen to have your standard lenses FOV measurements that so we can know your differences? Also, do you happen to have the stereo overlap measurements on the two lenses? Either way, thanks for all you do for the VR community. Cheers.
Now everybody who said the exchangeable lens system was just a gimmick and completely useless can pound sand. Lol Almalance would come in handy with these
@@tallymouseI contacted Almalence and they said Pimax said no to including it in their headsets. Almalence due to cost, licensing and support will also not offer a direct to consumer plugin license. Very disappointing!
@@tallymouse What i would have really liked to see, is what they could do if they designed the lenses for that software. If you from ground up would design the optical system to fully benefit from the eye tracked correction. I bet it would enable a lot more room int he lens design process.
I think if you can have HFOV 110-115deg of aspheric clarity, fused into the middle of a giant fresnel (like the 8kx in large mode), along with eye-tracking so you can run DFR (i.e. still works on a >4080), and using 6k per eye, you'd have a total winner! You'd basically end up with a 50ppd Crystal but with 8kx-style FOV. @@Nobody-Nowhere
Has anyone found a way to use hand tracking in MSFS in the same manner as we see in this video? Great video! Looking forward to putting the lenses on order along with the upgraded audio. Question is, do I add the hand tracking accessory to the order? Thanks....
Finally 🥳 This should be like 8kx small fov (also around 120°) and that's the most important boost imo. Any idea about the final price and WHEN are we going to be able to order or preorder them? 🤔 Iam going to do so ASAP !!!
They're making them in batches to ensure good QA/QC, and the first ones that went out were to the people who were the first to respond to the "want these instead of the 42ppd lenses?" email that was sent to initial Crystal owners last summer. You'll get a message from Pimax when yours are being shipped, as they make their way through that list first-come-first-served basis. Once those have been fulfilled, they'll go on general sale.
Pimax is planning on releasing new headsets which is probably why there is a delay in the lenses. If you don't have a headset it's probably better to wait for them to come out.
In the scene where you are standing on the carrier at the catapult, you can see the boundaries between the foveated and the peripheral area. There is also a clear difference in brightness. Doesn't that bother you?
You cannot see it, because the foveate region is all I can really 'see' clearly in my focal region, everything else is in my peripheral, so I don't notice it.. It works really well, because you don't need to render 70% of the screen area at full resolution. I have my foveate region set to 200% super sampling, so I also don't need MSAA turned on..
Regarding hand tracking. Got an official confirmation from Pimax that the angle of the camera is indeed 15 degrees. So currently using 15 degrees and 0.0, -0.06, -0.09 for position in my api_layer_config.json file. Did a lot of measuring of the CAD files of the headset to come up with those. Obviously varies a little depending on the exact positioning of your eyes.
Great video but how is: 1. the stereo overlap measured compared to the normal glass lenses? 2. How is the center PPD, better or worse or equal as the normal glass lenses? 3. How is the FoV (h & v) measured with your eyes compared to the normal glass lenses? 4. How about the chromatic aberration / color shifting? Better or worse or equal? Thank you in advance!
All questions answered in the video. However: stereo overlap is slightly less than Standard, however, in practice it didn't bother me.. doing things such as Air-to-air refueling doesn't feel any different, and that's a true test of depth perception. The ppd is about the same as the glass lenses in the central region, and drops slightly towards the edges where you don't really notice the change anyway. You can see CA on the edges of the lenses if you strain to look for it, especially if you're looking at bright white shape on a dark background.
When you do your hand tracking video would you be able to have a section on setup for those who do not have a physical sim pit - would like to interact with the DCS cockpit but finding nigh on impossible!
Nice one there Tally M. I ordered my BFOV lenses last year...LOL wondering how long i will have to wait... i did however not stop eating while i 'm waiting...didn't do you any good. ;-) Thanks .
@@alistairmulhall2728 As far as I know, the same factory (I believe, in Poland) is making all of Pimax's lenses, including the ones for the PCL.. i'll ask Pimax what is going on!
They're making them in batches to ensure good QA/QC, and the first ones that went out were to the people who were the first to respond to the "want these instead of the 42ppd lenses?" email that was sent to initial Crystal owners last summer. Some of those people were also beta-testers for the prototype lenses, and they got lenses from the first batch too. You'll get a message from Pimax when yours are being shipped, as they make their way through that list first-come-first-served basis. Once those have been fulfilled, they'll go on general sale.
@@standupart they're not a "G2 to Crystal: wow" change.. but they're incrementally good enough that you'll realize you have better situational awareness when in sim..
If you were on a budget, would you rather get the 8KX which has had a serious price cut, or would you save up money for a year and eventually get the Crystal + FOV lenses ?
@@mururoa7024 I ran both the 8kx and Crystal on a 3080 initially. To get enough resolution to read dials without leaning forwards, I had to increase the super-sampling on the 8kx's WHOLE image to 225% (p.d. 1.5 in DCS), which hurts your fps somewhat. Even without eye-tracking enabled, I could run the Crystal on the 3080 without any super-sampling and could clearly read dials without leaning forward - not needing to super-sample the image results in higher fps out of the gate. Then when you enable eye-tracking and DFR, you get another performance boost!. Both headsets can be traded in for a discount against the upcoming 12k. I could be wrong, but I also think they have a 8kx trade in program for the Crystal currently running.
@@tallymouse Excellent! Thank you so much for the insight! This is something I don't remember anyone mentioning in their reviews (I haven't seen all your videos though). This makes the decision towards the Crystal a lot easier.
I hate to be the plonker that asks slightly off-topic questions, but your subject knowledge seems so good I am giving into temptation: I am running a reverb G2 via an RTX3080 12gb and a CPU i7-10700 CPU @ 2.90GHz. Can I expect a noticable improvement using a Pimax Crystal or will my system specs cause too many quality/frame rate issues please?
So. I originally ran my 8kx on a 3080 with a 11900KF overclocked to 5.2GHz. I had to run p.d. in DCS at about 1.5 (i.e. 225% super sampling) to get it to the point where I could comfortably sit and read dial/MFD details without leaning forward. However, that super sampling came at the cost of fps AND I had to run fixed foveated rendering. When I switched to the Crystal, I could get excellent clarity running at a p.d. of 1.0, see the dials perfectly without leaning forward, and with no supersampling it ran with a good fps. When eye-tracking was finally enabled as beta-firmware, mny fps leapt up again due to using QuadViews. I'm on a 4090 now, but the 3080 was very reasonable. The G2 has a generally small sweet spot where everything was sharp in the middle of the image (i personally found), but everything off-axis was blurred (not unlike the 8kx), the Crystal really does mean that you can spend more time moving your eyes around and less time moving your head/neck to look at cockpit details.
Yes.. however, with the caveat that you have to run the 8kx super sampled. So in DCS that be an "p.d. setting" of 1.5 or so - otherwise it's nowhere near as clear as the Quest3. That in of itself, means that you need a very strong GPU, whereas with the Quest3 you do not. My little "Tally-o-chart" was really trying to reflect on what happens when you drive any of the headsets to their ultimate capabilities. I can get the 8kx to the point that I can clearly read every little detail in my MFDs/DDIs without leaning forward - however, with the Quest3, I still have to lean forward a little. That said, the Quest3 has really good lenses. I'd be wonderful to have a Quest3 with higher resolution panels - but then, without eye-tracking/DFR, it'd end up like the 8kx, and you'd need a monstrous GPU to run it..
@@tallymouse Yeah i got a 4090 just for the 8kx. Interesting that it makes such a difference in DCS, I guess the sweetspot is clearer. But I'd assume you can also see all the dials at once on the quest 3, whereas 8kx the centre will be clearer but the rest blurry.
Not sure about this - if you’re using OBS that mirrors the right eye, if the render resolution is the same, if the PPD decreases, then all we’re doing is stretching the image, unless that is the regular lenses are significantly cutting off and not displaying the entire screen that is in fact being rendered in the headset. I want to see more of the world around me, not have the world around me stretched. There’s a significant difference between the two that might be difficult to appreciate in a flight sim where most activity is relatively slow, but in a racing sim, for example, the difference between seeing a car out of your peripheral vision is not FOV, it’s render resolution and aspect ratio. Stretching the image doesn’t provide any benefit to peripheral vision if there aren’t more pixels being rendered horizontally.
Please do your research. As stated, i was showing you the 4k mirror because it looks better on a 4k monitor that you were watching it on.. the previous scene with the pseudo-binocular representation was closer.. but that's really boring for people on youtube to watch.. The only real way to present VR content is through VR.. but there is no VR RUclips..
@@tallymouse Of course - you can't accurately show 3D in 2D. That said, and take out then the misunderstanding about what you're showing as it's not really necessary, the point still remains - if you're not rendering more pixels horizontally, you're simply stretching the image and while it may provide an immersion factor for some, it's without benefit in other use cases where the goal of a wider FOV is to actually see more. This isn't a fault of yours in any way, and I understand there is an aspect of personal preference here, I view these wide FOV in all the PiMax headsets as gimmicky for my use case as it provides no real benefit and it is not true to reality.
They're making them in batches to ensure good QA/QC, and the first ones that went out were to the people who were the first to respond to the "want these instead of the 42ppd lenses?" email that was sent to initial Crystal owners last summer. You'll get a message from Pimax when yours are being shipped, as they make their way through that list first-come-first-served basis. Once those have been fulfilled, they'll go on general sale.
Hi! Others have said the sweet spot has gotten smaller with these lenses. Now I already find the Crystal’s sweet spot small coming from a QPro. Did you notice any changes to the sweet spot size? Thanks I’m advance!
Sweet-spots are very subjective. Like you stated, you came from the QPro, which has a giant sweet-spot (good lenses), whereas some people have come from the G2, which in comparison has a tiny sweet-spot, that when you hit it, it's as clear as a bell in the middle of the image, but blurry off to the side. In comparison to the G2, the Crystal's sweet-spot is significantly larger, more like the sweet-spot on normal spectacles. The sweet spot on the BIG FOV lenses has maybe decreased by 25% in diameter, but the "headset position indicator/helper" widget that is shown in headset when you first put it on (which uses the eye-tracking), is more than good enough to get your eyes into the sweet-spot.
They're making them in batches to ensure good QA/QC, and the first ones that went out were to the people who were the first to respond to the "want these instead of the 42ppd lenses?" email that was sent to initial Crystal owners last summer. You'll get a message from Pimax when yours are being shipped, as they make their way through that list first-come-first-served basis. Once those have been fulfilled, they'll go on general sale.
The VR kneeboard is OpenKneeboard. I also have a small tablet strapped to my leg so I can write notes on it and see them in VR. The info up at the top of the screen is the "Message to Group" option is Mission Editor. I had it triggered by the wings being extended and locked, so that both myself and FireToad (Flight Lead) could see the GPS coords of the targets. Originally, he'd tell me over radio, and i'd give him the other radios and TACAN stations over radio. Now, we've just placed them onto a separate tab on the VR kneeboard, as that's a little more realistic.. especially as the briefing room hasn't appeared yet in SuperCarrier!
Question on the hand tracking… I have a 1:1 cockpit as well but how do you address the conflict between virtual input and real switches? I’d like to see my hands but only have the real switches signal a function to DCS, at least until an affordable mixed reality system becomes available. So, what is this magic?
In DCS, in the "VR" tab, set to "Hands only" away from "Hands and click" (or whatever the phrase is in the drop-down). It was updated recently to add "only hands", before that, I had to use my middle finger to press to avoid the double-click
They're making them in batches to ensure good QA/QC, and the first ones that went out were to the people who were the first to respond to the "want these instead of the 42ppd lenses?" email that was sent to initial Crystal owners last summer. You'll get a message from Pimax when yours are being shipped, as they make their way through that list first-come-first-served basis. Once those have been fulfilled, they'll go on general sale.
Excellent to hear. I've been waiting for the wide lenses for like a year now. Also I would like to know more about the hand tracking? it's out of stock now. But is it worth it if you fly a lot of DCS?
If you have a HOTAS setup very close/similar to what you can 'see' in VR (like the WinWing MIP), then definitely.. using just VR fingers alone without any haptic feedback is also possible in the simpler WW2/Korean-war aircraft, as the buttons are fewer and bigger. However, it's frustrating in modern-era aircraft without something 'real' to press..
@@tallymouse don't have a MIP I have some TM cougar MFDs I don't use, because of the hassle with VR, but I'm considering buying a monstertech setup for the MFDs and add F16 ICP.
@@Gunfreak19 I also have a quick-release setup the features the F16 ICP and two TM Cougar MFDs. I'll be covering the F18, the F16, and the Spitfire in the video.
@@Gunfreak19 I have the Cougar MFDs and the PSM ICP set up exactly like the real F16 and can use the hand tracking to accurately push all the buttons. I would say its actually better to not have the WW MIP because there is more distance depth wise between the MFDs and the ICP in the real aircraft than what I see people have with their WW MIPs. I also had the WW ICP for a little bit, but returned it because the tactile feedback is lacking and the Dobber switch very sloppy.
@@johnraahauge4552 do you have numbers (as in number of cm between each mfd and to the ICP? ) It's been surprisingly hard to just get the actual distances between the mfds. I've asked various cockpit builder pages etc. Nobody seemed able to just say. There's so so many cm between the MFDs. And the icp is set so and so many cm up vs the MFDs.
They're making them in batches to ensure good QA/QC, and the first ones that went out were to the people who were the first to respond to the "want these instead of the 42ppd lenses?" email that was sent to initial Crystal owners last summer. You'll get a message from Pimax when yours are being shipped, as they make their way through that list first-come-first-served basis. Once those have been fulfilled, they'll go on general sale.
Super vid on this product. Two questions please: Previous early reviews speak to a "nose-gap" where there is no binocular overlap. Did you experience this or possibly it has been corrected? Second question: What are you using for handtracking? Cheers and thanks for this. Catseye
I saw a couple of those reviews too, however, I can't say I immediately noticed it. I know some people are highly sensitive to binocular overlap changes, but I never witnessed a "nose-gap" where these isn't any whatsoever. I believe, sometimes, that people can look into WIMFOV (for example) results and try to read a little too much into the output data - at face value, without considering lens tilt, display tilt, and basically the entire optical stack, and the only way to do that properly is to strip down the Crystal and measure everything with a CMM. That's why, I've come to the conclusion that its probably better to examine what they perceived effect is on the sim or game play for the 'typical' user... I do know that the lenses were completely redesigned since the prototypes through multiple pre-production prototype iterations, so it could have been something that got corrected before these appeared.
Do you have the app Test HMD? You can get your actual Horizonal and Vertical FOV values. Everyone is different so it’s really the difference in values between the lenses that would be nice to know. I get 102 horizontal on the Crystal. Hoping for about 112 with the new lenses. That would match what I get with the XR-4.
Yes, the results are in the video.. the Test HMD app is the one with the "Real-O-Virtual" banner on the wall. I get around 12-16 degrees improvement in HFOV depending on face-foam thickness and how snug my head-strap is. The 120 HFOV I got was with the headset fit the way I'd normally have it now for DCS/MSFS.
You notice it in the "moon-scape". If you're looking at WIMFOV or TestHMD numbers, you'll also see that the binocular overlap is reduced, however, in sim you don't even notice it. As with everything, if you're being hyper critical and looking in detail for issues, you will find them... As you know Air-to-air refueling requires a very keen sense of depth perception - I had no issues whatsoever performing AAR, and neither did I feel nauseous because of the slightly lower overlap.
So I pre-ordered my pimax Crystal and then there was some kind of vote for the second set of lenses, (only if pre-ordered to get the plastic 42ppd lenses) or pay 52 dollars to get the 35ppd larger set of lenses when they finished making them so any word on when the pre-orders will get the lenses and will pimax keep to there promise and us pre-orders will still pay the 52 dollars?
They're making them in batches to ensure good QA/QC, and the first ones that went out were to the people who were the first to respond to the "want these instead of the 42ppd lenses?" email that was sent to initial Crystal owners last summer. You'll get a message from Pimax when yours are being shipped, as they make their way through that list first-come-first-served basis. Once those have been fulfilled, they'll go on general sale.
They're making them in batches to ensure good QA/QC, and the first ones that went out were to the people who were the first to respond to the "want these instead of the 42ppd lenses?" email that was sent to initial Crystal owners last summer. You'll get a message from Pimax when yours are being shipped, as they make their way through that list first-come-first-served basis. Once those have been fulfilled, they'll go on general sale.
I currently fly in DCS using the Reverb G2. As you know these have been discontinued. I have been shopping for my next VR headset. I use prescription addon lens for my headset. I know these are available for the Crystal. Do they work with the new lenses?
I have VR Rock prescription lenses and they work well with the Crystal. For my face shape wearing glasses wasn't really practicable in the Crystal, but I've always bought lenses for any VR headset which I owned. My last headset was a G2 and I had great fun with it, but it doesn't begin to compare with the Crystal. Of course the Crystal is very expensive and you need a 4090 card to get the best from it, so it's a big step up costwise. The edge to edge clarity is so good that I don't even think in terms of a sweet spot, whereas in the G2 everything off to the side was just a blur.
I'll ask about on the Pimax Discord and find out which inserts are compatible with the BIG FOV lenses. There are already compatible prescription inserts available for the standard lenses.
They're making them in batches to ensure good QA/QC, and the first ones that went out were to the people who were the first to respond to the "want these instead of the 42ppd lenses?" email that was sent to initial Crystal owners last summer. You'll get a message from Pimax when yours are being shipped, as they make their way through that list first-come-first-served basis. Once those have been fulfilled, they'll go on general sale.
Hi, very good video friend. I have a question about the thing that makes the game render at lower resolution the parts of the display that you are not looking at. Do you see the transition happen sometimes? is there really no lag even in very demanding areas like on the Syria map for instance? Thanks. Edit: one more question :) how much reduction in gpu usage do you get from using this? (approximatly)
Your eyes cannot move fast enough to 'catch it out', so you don't even notice that the peripheral vision is being rendered at a much lower resolution. In DCS I find at least a 50% increase in fps without any visual loss of quality. Here's a setup guide for it: ruclips.net/video/A6g58RVPiUc/видео.html
@@tallymouse50% ??! so you're telling me I might have as many FPS on a 2x4k VR headset than on a flat 4k screen? Can you confirm this? (im getting interested in VR all of a sudden)
@Surfingnet it depends on the game. In DCS, most people with a generally modern PC see 70-100fps in DCS when running QuadViews with the Crystal. In MSFS, it'll probably be closer to 45-60Fps depending in your settings. However, for the most part anything >45fps in VR is "comfortable"
Been waiting for Big FOV! Thanks for the review. Tally Mouse is the most technically competent and thorough VR channel I've found.
Thank you, Wingman!
@@markdeckard7651 I'd love to know as well!
@@markdeckard7651 and me! lol
Tally, I can’t thank you enough for spending lots of time with me to get my rig working perfectly. It took some serious doing but I’m all the way in now and will be buying these lenses
The editing for this video is great, I enjoyed that beyond a review/summary, you also added some much needed humor.
I can only hope to aspire to edutainment .. the best for my flight..
Nice to see Pimax making progress. Thanks for sharing!
Finally another Tally Mouse video! 🎉 The VR GOAT. Lovely visuals on that mission. I see what you did there 😎
nice one Tally Mouse loving the content for its humour and genuinely useful info from someone who is clearly a VR enthusiast
Other reviewers have said the binocular overlap is poor with the Big FOV lenses. How do you find the binocular overlap to be?
I loved the picture clarity of the Crystalzz so clear and nice colors. Great Audio to.. to bad it is so uncomfortable and heavy that I was forced to resell it. I tried everything to make it comfortable but nothing worked for me. after 10 min it was pushing on my nose bones that caused me pain. Now I have the Q3, yes it’s isn’t clear as the Crystal but with Bobo S3 head strap it’s so comfortable .
Same, although I think the Q3 edge to edge clarity is a good tradeoff for Crystal's small sweet spot.
I put counterweights (nightvision goggles ones) on the back just above the battery pack and a comfort strap and it now feels like it's floating on my head.
@@laartwork I tried that also and adding more weight to counter an already heavy HMD just made the experience worse. I added a Bob M3 to my Quest3 and soo much more enjoyable experience.
As always, an excellent video! A flawless blend of knowledge and entertainment!
Thanks Max, as always.. just keep the Pimax "good stuff" coming!
Fantastic review. Looking forward to getting my hands/eyes on a pair!
Good to see you here!
The Pimax 12K is going to be great! They are learning a lot with the Crystal and that will make the 12K even better yet.
Great video as always TallyMouse! Thanks for taking the time to make sure the lenses were installed properly and letting the viewers know that exactly what you had tried to fix the issue.
After writing off Pimax for years, I finally felt it was time to go be Pimax a legit chance for VR and purchased my Crystal in January. I’m glad I gave them a chance because I have had an excellent experience thus far. Minor learning pains but that comes with all VR headsets. The Crystal is now my favorite VR HMD available and my Varjo Aero is now packed away. But I purchased the Crystal in anticipation for these wide FOV lenses. Even without the wide FOV lenses, it’s an incredible experience but your video has me beyond excited to get my wide FOV lenses delivered.
Do you happen to have your standard lenses FOV measurements that so we can know your differences? Also, do you happen to have the stereo overlap measurements on the two lenses? Either way, thanks for all you do for the VR community. Cheers.
Now everybody who said the exchangeable lens system was just a gimmick and completely useless can pound sand. Lol
Almalance would come in handy with these
Yes - it'd love to see Almalence with a profile that worked with these.
@@tallymouseI contacted Almalence and they said Pimax said no to including it in their headsets. Almalence due to cost, licensing and support will also not offer a direct to consumer plugin license. Very disappointing!
@@tallymouse What i would have really liked to see, is what they could do if they designed the lenses for that software. If you from ground up would design the optical system to fully benefit from the eye tracked correction. I bet it would enable a lot more room int he lens design process.
I think if you can have HFOV 110-115deg of aspheric clarity, fused into the middle of a giant fresnel (like the 8kx in large mode), along with eye-tracking so you can run DFR (i.e. still works on a >4080), and using 6k per eye, you'd have a total winner! You'd basically end up with a 50ppd Crystal but with 8kx-style FOV. @@Nobody-Nowhere
Hi, nice and correct video. I'm really looking forward to the step by step video about aligning virtual hands with real world switches.
It'll be coming soon!
same here, cant wait to see it
Great video! Excited to get the WideFOV lenses soon. The Pimax Crystal is an amazing headset and well worth the investment!
Ohh Wow ❤ thanks you great Man! I knew those lenses would be awesome
Has anyone found a way to use hand tracking in MSFS in the same manner as we see in this video? Great video! Looking forward to putting the lenses on order along with the upgraded audio. Question is, do I add the hand tracking accessory to the order?
Thanks....
Finally 🥳 This should be like 8kx small fov (also around 120°) and that's the most important boost imo. Any idea about the final price and WHEN are we going to be able to order or preorder them? 🤔
Iam going to do so ASAP !!!
They're making them in batches to ensure good QA/QC, and the first ones that went out were to the people who were the first to respond to the "want these instead of the 42ppd lenses?" email that was sent to initial Crystal owners last summer. You'll get a message from Pimax when yours are being shipped, as they make their way through that list first-come-first-served basis. Once those have been fulfilled, they'll go on general sale.
@@tallymouse Yes I already found this answer under another comment and forgot to edit mine. 😅 But thanks for answering anyway... 🙏😌
Pimax is planning on releasing new headsets which is probably why there is a delay in the lenses. If you don't have a headset it's probably better to wait for them to come out.
nice vidéo thanks . 120° good . WITH 35ppd less lost fps .
No lost fps - still the same displays..
In the scene where you are standing on the carrier at the catapult, you can see the boundaries between the foveated and the peripheral area. There is also a clear difference in brightness. Doesn't that bother you?
You cannot see it, because the foveate region is all I can really 'see' clearly in my focal region, everything else is in my peripheral, so I don't notice it.. It works really well, because you don't need to render 70% of the screen area at full resolution. I have my foveate region set to 200% super sampling, so I also don't need MSAA turned on..
Regarding hand tracking. Got an official confirmation from Pimax that the angle of the camera is indeed 15 degrees. So currently using 15 degrees and 0.0, -0.06, -0.09 for position in my api_layer_config.json file.
Did a lot of measuring of the CAD files of the headset to come up with those. Obviously varies a little depending on the exact positioning of your eyes.
Yes, i have ended up with very similar settings after measuring everything with a vernier caliper, seems to work well!
Great video but how is: 1. the stereo overlap measured compared to the normal glass lenses? 2. How is the center PPD, better or worse or equal as the normal glass lenses? 3. How is the FoV (h & v) measured with your eyes compared to the normal glass lenses? 4. How about the chromatic aberration / color shifting? Better or worse or equal? Thank you in advance!
All questions answered in the video. However: stereo overlap is slightly less than Standard, however, in practice it didn't bother me.. doing things such as Air-to-air refueling doesn't feel any different, and that's a true test of depth perception. The ppd is about the same as the glass lenses in the central region, and drops slightly towards the edges where you don't really notice the change anyway. You can see CA on the edges of the lenses if you strain to look for it, especially if you're looking at bright white shape on a dark background.
Excellent work! Thank you,
When you do your hand tracking video would you be able to have a section on setup for those who do not have a physical sim pit - would like to interact with the DCS cockpit but finding nigh on impossible!
Yes. I plan to do F18 sim pit, F16 sim pit, and Spitfire (which I do not have as a physical pit)
Nice one there Tally M. I ordered my BFOV lenses last year...LOL wondering how long i will have to wait... i did however not stop eating while i 'm waiting...didn't do you any good. ;-) Thanks .
I'm so happy with my crystal and your'e realy gonna tell me now that it's gonna be better?
Five months on and still not available Joe public yet. Any idea when they will be available?
@@alistairmulhall2728 As far as I know, the same factory (I believe, in Poland) is making all of Pimax's lenses, including the ones for the PCL.. i'll ask Pimax what is going on!
Are you ever going to make that video where you tell us how to align hands to ingame buttons? Thanks
I am working on it right now.. will be the next video out!
@@tallymouse Awesome :D can't wait biggest sticking point of going to VR in DCS can't see where my cockpit panels are.
Would you have any rough idea of when they will be available on the storrrrrrre? :) Great video and excplanation. Thanks for your work!
They're making them in batches to ensure good QA/QC, and the first ones that went out were to the people who were the first to respond to the "want these instead of the 42ppd lenses?" email that was sent to initial Crystal owners last summer. Some of those people were also beta-testers for the prototype lenses, and they got lenses from the first batch too. You'll get a message from Pimax when yours are being shipped, as they make their way through that list first-come-first-served basis. Once those have been fulfilled, they'll go on general sale.
@@tallymouse I just bought my crystal this month so probably a few more months wait for me then :)
@@standupart they're not a "G2 to Crystal: wow" change.. but they're incrementally good enough that you'll realize you have better situational awareness when in sim..
Waiting for that one to one tutorial to align my rig (MIP) to the VR view
Oh man oh man.. awesome! I've been waiting for your next video. Where have you been? 😂 great video btw..
A death in my original nuclear family and a subsequential lot of travel.. good content on its way though..
If you were on a budget, would you rather get the 8KX which has had a serious price cut, or would you save up money for a year and eventually get the Crystal + FOV lenses ?
What CPU/GPU do you have?
@@tallymouse AMD 5900x + RTX3080
@@mururoa7024 I ran both the 8kx and Crystal on a 3080 initially. To get enough resolution to read dials without leaning forwards, I had to increase the super-sampling on the 8kx's WHOLE image to 225% (p.d. 1.5 in DCS), which hurts your fps somewhat. Even without eye-tracking enabled, I could run the Crystal on the 3080 without any super-sampling and could clearly read dials without leaning forward - not needing to super-sample the image results in higher fps out of the gate. Then when you enable eye-tracking and DFR, you get another performance boost!. Both headsets can be traded in for a discount against the upcoming 12k. I could be wrong, but I also think they have a 8kx trade in program for the Crystal currently running.
@@tallymouse Excellent! Thank you so much for the insight! This is something I don't remember anyone mentioning in their reviews (I haven't seen all your videos though). This makes the decision towards the Crystal a lot easier.
I hate to be the plonker that asks slightly off-topic questions, but your subject knowledge seems so good I am giving into temptation: I am running a reverb G2 via an RTX3080 12gb and a CPU i7-10700 CPU @ 2.90GHz. Can I expect a noticable improvement using a Pimax Crystal or will my system specs cause too many quality/frame rate issues please?
So. I originally ran my 8kx on a 3080 with a 11900KF overclocked to 5.2GHz. I had to run p.d. in DCS at about 1.5 (i.e. 225% super sampling) to get it to the point where I could comfortably sit and read dial/MFD details without leaning forward. However, that super sampling came at the cost of fps AND I had to run fixed foveated rendering. When I switched to the Crystal, I could get excellent clarity running at a p.d. of 1.0, see the dials perfectly without leaning forward, and with no supersampling it ran with a good fps. When eye-tracking was finally enabled as beta-firmware, mny fps leapt up again due to using QuadViews. I'm on a 4090 now, but the 3080 was very reasonable. The G2 has a generally small sweet spot where everything was sharp in the middle of the image (i personally found), but everything off-axis was blurred (not unlike the 8kx), the Crystal really does mean that you can spend more time moving your eyes around and less time moving your head/neck to look at cockpit details.
@@tallymouseThankyou very much for the feedback, I appreciate you taking the time to reply 😊
@@tallymouseThankyou very much for the reply and I appreciate you taking the time to give me that information 😊
Do you really think 8kx has better visual clarity than Q3? I used my 8kx for years but have shelved it for Q3, just so much easier on the eyes.
Yes.. however, with the caveat that you have to run the 8kx super sampled. So in DCS that be an "p.d. setting" of 1.5 or so - otherwise it's nowhere near as clear as the Quest3. That in of itself, means that you need a very strong GPU, whereas with the Quest3 you do not.
My little "Tally-o-chart" was really trying to reflect on what happens when you drive any of the headsets to their ultimate capabilities. I can get the 8kx to the point that I can clearly read every little detail in my MFDs/DDIs without leaning forward - however, with the Quest3, I still have to lean forward a little. That said, the Quest3 has really good lenses. I'd be wonderful to have a Quest3 with higher resolution panels - but then, without eye-tracking/DFR, it'd end up like the 8kx, and you'd need a monstrous GPU to run it..
@@tallymouse Yeah i got a 4090 just for the 8kx. Interesting that it makes such a difference in DCS, I guess the sweetspot is clearer. But I'd assume you can also see all the dials at once on the quest 3, whereas 8kx the centre will be clearer but the rest blurry.
Hey Tally!! are you quit from Pimax Discord? I can't find you there
I'm there! Are you on the Official Discord? discord.gg/7zFeMz26
Not sure about this - if you’re using OBS that mirrors the right eye, if the render resolution is the same, if the PPD decreases, then all we’re doing is stretching the image, unless that is the regular lenses are significantly cutting off and not displaying the entire screen that is in fact being rendered in the headset. I want to see more of the world around me, not have the world around me stretched. There’s a significant difference between the two that might be difficult to appreciate in a flight sim where most activity is relatively slow, but in a racing sim, for example, the difference between seeing a car out of your peripheral vision is not FOV, it’s render resolution and aspect ratio. Stretching the image doesn’t provide any benefit to peripheral vision if there aren’t more pixels being rendered horizontally.
Please do your research.
As stated, i was showing you the 4k mirror because it looks better on a 4k monitor that you were watching it on.. the previous scene with the pseudo-binocular representation was closer.. but that's really boring for people on youtube to watch..
The only real way to present VR content is through VR.. but there is no VR RUclips..
@@tallymouse Of course - you can't accurately show 3D in 2D. That said, and take out then the misunderstanding about what you're showing as it's not really necessary, the point still remains - if you're not rendering more pixels horizontally, you're simply stretching the image and while it may provide an immersion factor for some, it's without benefit in other use cases where the goal of a wider FOV is to actually see more. This isn't a fault of yours in any way, and I understand there is an aspect of personal preference here, I view these wide FOV in all the PiMax headsets as gimmicky for my use case as it provides no real benefit and it is not true to reality.
Hi Mister DCS! I should get my pair of lenses this week. Looking very forward to try them. Will let you know how I like them. Thx. for the Video
Please do - just don't get put off when you first look at the moonscape.. wait until you're in car-sim before you fiddle with IPD and placement etc..
So what do we need to do to get a set of the improved FOV lenses for the crystal?
They're making them in batches to ensure good QA/QC, and the first ones that went out were to the people who were the first to respond to the "want these instead of the 42ppd lenses?" email that was sent to initial Crystal owners last summer. You'll get a message from Pimax when yours are being shipped, as they make their way through that list first-come-first-served basis. Once those have been fulfilled, they'll go on general sale.
@@tallymousecan I ask when you responded to the survey, I did so back in July so hoping not too long
@@Murmur2k I replied to the email at
Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 5:03 AM.. about 5mins after receiving it..
@@tallymouse ooh mine was Jul 20th so there’s hope!
Thank you. I'm actually very interested in the hand tracking with DCS that you have going on. Will you do a video on that please.
Yes... coming up!
I second this request and also would like the measurements you used for the one-to-one replica of the F-18 Hornet in DCS :)
Hi! Others have said the sweet spot has gotten smaller with these lenses. Now I already find the Crystal’s sweet spot small coming from a QPro. Did you notice any changes to the sweet spot size? Thanks I’m advance!
Sweet-spots are very subjective. Like you stated, you came from the QPro, which has a giant sweet-spot (good lenses), whereas some people have come from the G2, which in comparison has a tiny sweet-spot, that when you hit it, it's as clear as a bell in the middle of the image, but blurry off to the side.
In comparison to the G2, the Crystal's sweet-spot is significantly larger, more like the sweet-spot on normal spectacles. The sweet spot on the BIG FOV lenses has maybe decreased by 25% in diameter, but the "headset position indicator/helper" widget that is shown in headset when you first put it on (which uses the eye-tracking), is more than good enough to get your eyes into the sweet-spot.
@@tallymouse thanks for your response!
Out with the hand tracking vid.
Yes.. but it needs to be clear, concise, and comprehensive, otherwise it'll be as useful as chocolate teapot! quality takes time..
@@tallymouse Just knowing it works is encouraging. Are you using LEAP or something else?
@@cuttheloop The Pimax handtracking module, which is an Ultraleap IR-170.
@@tallymouse oh that sounds interesting
Good news! Any word on when it will be available for us civilians? Will my prescription lenses fit these new lenses?
They're making them in batches to ensure good QA/QC, and the first ones that went out were to the people who were the first to respond to the "want these instead of the 42ppd lenses?" email that was sent to initial Crystal owners last summer. You'll get a message from Pimax when yours are being shipped, as they make their way through that list first-come-first-served basis. Once those have been fulfilled, they'll go on general sale.
Great video! Anyone know what plugin he's using at 4:04? Is that DCS Scratchpad?
The VR kneeboard is OpenKneeboard. I also have a small tablet strapped to my leg so I can write notes on it and see them in VR.
The info up at the top of the screen is the "Message to Group" option is Mission Editor. I had it triggered by the wings being extended and locked, so that both myself and FireToad (Flight Lead) could see the GPS coords of the targets. Originally, he'd tell me over radio, and i'd give him the other radios and TACAN stations over radio. Now, we've just placed them onto a separate tab on the VR kneeboard, as that's a little more realistic.. especially as the briefing room hasn't appeared yet in SuperCarrier!
@@tallymouse ah that's what that was (Message to Group option). Haha was so confused where that came from thank you
Question on the hand tracking… I have a 1:1 cockpit as well but how do you address the conflict between virtual input and real switches? I’d like to see my hands but only have the real switches signal a function to DCS, at least until an affordable mixed reality system becomes available. So, what is this magic?
In DCS, in the "VR" tab, set to "Hands only" away from "Hands and click" (or whatever the phrase is in the drop-down).
It was updated recently to add "only hands", before that, I had to use my middle finger to press to avoid the double-click
The Pimax crystal is with no doubt a good VR headset. Also the Pimax is way overpriced.
Cant even see these FOV lenses on their webpage/store. How did you get them?
They're making them in batches to ensure good QA/QC, and the first ones that went out were to the people who were the first to respond to the "want these instead of the 42ppd lenses?" email that was sent to initial Crystal owners last summer. You'll get a message from Pimax when yours are being shipped, as they make their way through that list first-come-first-served basis. Once those have been fulfilled, they'll go on general sale.
@@tallymouse awesome thx. Will wait it out before ordering a crystal
Excellent to hear. I've been waiting for the wide lenses for like a year now. Also I would like to know more about the hand tracking? it's out of stock now. But is it worth it if you fly a lot of DCS?
If you have a HOTAS setup very close/similar to what you can 'see' in VR (like the WinWing MIP), then definitely.. using just VR fingers alone without any haptic feedback is also possible in the simpler WW2/Korean-war aircraft, as the buttons are fewer and bigger. However, it's frustrating in modern-era aircraft without something 'real' to press..
@@tallymouse don't have a MIP I have some TM cougar MFDs I don't use, because of the hassle with VR, but I'm considering buying a monstertech setup for the MFDs and add F16 ICP.
@@Gunfreak19 I also have a quick-release setup the features the F16 ICP and two TM Cougar MFDs. I'll be covering the F18, the F16, and the Spitfire in the video.
@@Gunfreak19 I have the Cougar MFDs and the PSM ICP set up exactly like the real F16 and can use the hand tracking to accurately push all the buttons. I would say its actually better to not have the WW MIP because there is more distance depth wise between the MFDs and the ICP in the real aircraft than what I see people have with their WW MIPs. I also had the WW ICP for a little bit, but returned it because the tactile feedback is lacking and the Dobber switch very sloppy.
@@johnraahauge4552 do you have numbers (as in number of cm between each mfd and to the ICP? )
It's been surprisingly hard to just get the actual distances between the mfds. I've asked various cockpit builder pages etc. Nobody seemed able to just say. There's so so many cm between the MFDs. And the icp is set so and so many cm up vs the MFDs.
I can't find a link on the Pimax website to (pre)order the Big FOV lenses or see the cost price
They're making them in batches to ensure good QA/QC, and the first ones that went out were to the people who were the first to respond to the "want these instead of the 42ppd lenses?" email that was sent to initial Crystal owners last summer. You'll get a message from Pimax when yours are being shipped, as they make their way through that list first-come-first-served basis. Once those have been fulfilled, they'll go on general sale.
Super vid on this product. Two questions please: Previous early reviews speak to a "nose-gap" where there is no binocular overlap. Did you experience this or possibly it has been corrected? Second question: What are you using for handtracking? Cheers and thanks for this. Catseye
I saw a couple of those reviews too, however, I can't say I immediately noticed it. I know some people are highly sensitive to binocular overlap changes, but I never witnessed a "nose-gap" where these isn't any whatsoever. I believe, sometimes, that people can look into WIMFOV (for example) results and try to read a little too much into the output data - at face value, without considering lens tilt, display tilt, and basically the entire optical stack, and the only way to do that properly is to strip down the Crystal and measure everything with a CMM. That's why, I've come to the conclusion that its probably better to examine what they perceived effect is on the sim or game play for the 'typical' user...
I do know that the lenses were completely redesigned since the prototypes through multiple pre-production prototype iterations, so it could have been something that got corrected before these appeared.
Do you have the app Test HMD? You can get your actual Horizonal and Vertical FOV values. Everyone is different so it’s really the difference in values between the lenses that would be nice to know. I get 102 horizontal on the Crystal. Hoping for about 112 with the new lenses. That would match what I get with the XR-4.
Yes, the results are in the video.. the Test HMD app is the one with the "Real-O-Virtual" banner on the wall. I get around 12-16 degrees improvement in HFOV depending on face-foam thickness and how snug my head-strap is. The 120 HFOV I got was with the headset fit the way I'd normally have it now for DCS/MSFS.
@@tallymouse well that’s what I get for not listening to the whole thing 😂
How bad is the binocular overlap ?
You notice it in the "moon-scape". If you're looking at WIMFOV or TestHMD numbers, you'll also see that the binocular overlap is reduced, however, in sim you don't even notice it. As with everything, if you're being hyper critical and looking in detail for issues, you will find them... As you know Air-to-air refueling requires a very keen sense of depth perception - I had no issues whatsoever performing AAR, and neither did I feel nauseous because of the slightly lower overlap.
I don't see the lenses on the Pimax Crystal site yet. When is the release date?
Will they work with my prescription lenses?
Good question - i'll ask on the Pimax Discord and revert..
So I pre-ordered my pimax Crystal and then there was some kind of vote for the second set of lenses, (only if pre-ordered to get the plastic 42ppd lenses) or pay 52 dollars to get the 35ppd larger set of lenses when they finished making them so any word on when the pre-orders will get the lenses and will pimax keep to there promise and us pre-orders will still pay the 52 dollars?
They're making them in batches to ensure good QA/QC, and the first ones that went out were to the people who were the first to respond to the "want these instead of the 42ppd lenses?" email that was sent to initial Crystal owners last summer. You'll get a message from Pimax when yours are being shipped, as they make their way through that list first-come-first-served basis. Once those have been fulfilled, they'll go on general sale.
@@tallymouse Ok I guess will see because i was one of those that responded to the want these instead of the 42ppd lenses. Ty for the headsup.
@@GT1GT I think Reinhard Roscher tested out the 42ppd.
so where can we actually buy them?
They're making them in batches to ensure good QA/QC, and the first ones that went out were to the people who were the first to respond to the "want these instead of the 42ppd lenses?" email that was sent to initial Crystal owners last summer. You'll get a message from Pimax when yours are being shipped, as they make their way through that list first-come-first-served basis. Once those have been fulfilled, they'll go on general sale.
thanks for letting me know! thats a good system, I was afraid theyd be like the top strap, (unavailable to existing owners of the crystal)
Will these new lenses be compatible with prescription lens inserts? Thanks!
I'll ask on Pimax Discord and revert.
I currently fly in DCS using the Reverb G2. As you know these have been discontinued. I have been shopping for my next VR headset. I use prescription addon lens for my headset. I know these are available for the Crystal. Do they work with the new lenses?
I have VR Rock prescription lenses and they work well with the Crystal. For my face shape wearing glasses wasn't really practicable in the Crystal, but I've always bought lenses for any VR headset which I owned. My last headset was a G2 and I had great fun with it, but it doesn't begin to compare with the Crystal. Of course the Crystal is very expensive and you need a 4090 card to get the best from it, so it's a big step up costwise. The edge to edge clarity is so good that I don't even think in terms of a sweet spot, whereas in the G2 everything off to the side was just a blur.
I'll ask about on the Pimax Discord and find out which inserts are compatible with the BIG FOV lenses. There are already compatible prescription inserts available for the standard lenses.
Is the hand tracking using the hand tracker module from pimax?
It is indeed!
When will those be available for purchase?
They're making them in batches to ensure good QA/QC, and the first ones that went out were to the people who were the first to respond to the "want these instead of the 42ppd lenses?" email that was sent to initial Crystal owners last summer. You'll get a message from Pimax when yours are being shipped, as they make their way through that list first-come-first-served basis. Once those have been fulfilled, they'll go on general sale.
@@tallymouse Thanks, I have just approached support requesting them to add myself in the queue :)
Hi, very good video friend. I have a question about the thing that makes the game render at lower resolution the parts of the display that you are not looking at. Do you see the transition happen sometimes? is there really no lag even in very demanding areas like on the Syria map for instance? Thanks.
Edit: one more question :) how much reduction in gpu usage do you get from using this? (approximatly)
Your eyes cannot move fast enough to 'catch it out', so you don't even notice that the peripheral vision is being rendered at a much lower resolution. In DCS I find at least a 50% increase in fps without any visual loss of quality.
Here's a setup guide for it:
ruclips.net/video/A6g58RVPiUc/видео.html
@@tallymouse50% ??! so you're telling me I might have as many FPS on a 2x4k VR headset than on a flat 4k screen? Can you confirm this? (im getting interested in VR all of a sudden)
@Surfingnet it depends on the game. In DCS, most people with a generally modern PC see 70-100fps in DCS when running QuadViews with the Crystal. In MSFS, it'll probably be closer to 45-60Fps depending in your settings. However, for the most part anything >45fps in VR is "comfortable"
Hi do you know if you'll be able to use your prescription lenses with these?
Tallymouse are you on Discord? Guess I can try to reach you on reddit. Still waiting on the other video but I know how it goes take your time.
Still not available. 🙄
No OLED? No interest.
😃 "Promosm"