Ultimate Edition’s Ruling Issue
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2024
- See? See what I did there with the title? Huh? Did you see it?
I procrastinated on this video for literal months, partially because I lost drive for it and partially because I was so convinced that the winter update was when it would be fixed. But that update came and went with no improvement. Sigh.
I really want to start a conversation about this, because I’ve been hearing an increasing number of complaints about the community’s toxicity, and threats to drop the game entirely. I wholeheartedly believe that hammering this one nail in would solve a lot of issues that we experience.
I’m going to figure out how to add in captions at some point, because between my mic’s shittiness and my voice’s shittiness, I’m not sure if I sound like I’m even speaking proper English.
Edit: Captions added!
Lmao, so the WCUE devs just had an absolute fuckton of scummy behavior revealed, so I guess you could say this is no longer the ruling issue.
Here’s a document of what’s been going down lately. It’s not pretty.
docs.google.com/document/d/1PTtk_H4tLKn8db62uUzBjfYa1kmOcwXHo9O77Xo_lws/edit?usp=sharing
If I may add in my own input as well! I play wcue w a friend of mine who iz a mod for the game, and regularly and I have seen people genuinely REFUSE to listen to moderatorz about the rulez. Even after the mod tag iz brought out. I have no fucking clue why people do thiz, but I have a feeling it may have to do w the lack of rulez ingame.
so true phantompawz
Damn too many z's-
“Five Nights at Freddy’s roleplay”. *Shows a Friday night Funkin game*
I don’t know man 😭
@@swanfeathertheelder you tried
It’s honestly great to see a rant I agree to about this! Honestly, it’s kind of sad that *a new button with already written rules* is apparently harder to add than all the other stuff we see. Being one of the ones who came from tube cat to beta, unaware discord existed, I was afraid to make noncats and avoiding names like “moon” and my “compound name” trait I use in almost all my oc’s now that I’m in the discord and know the freedom of rules (Tumbleweed’Twitch for example).
HONESTLY, I feel like the rules need to be added, not soon, but immediately. My main oc is a non cat named Scorncall, a mute raven who is a special role, medcat assistant. Too weak to be a proper warrior, but not trained enough to be a proper medicine cat and not old enough to go to the elders den - (think: brightheart but can’t warrior). People, doubley so, get angry because not only am I not a canon role, but also a non cat. I’ve seen stupid quotes as well, for example: Scorncall is mute, but a common argument against him - because apparently you can’t read bios before you think - is that “prey can’t speak! You can’t have your character speak! Prey can’t speak so can’t talk with the clan so can’t be a high role”. Like boy??? What about mute cats, ignoring the fact that my character can’t speak in the first place - and that even though my oc can’t speak other noncats are allowed to.
A final addition to your rant: I am annoyed by another thing I didn’t see mentioned in this one severely - relating to the “no rearagning clan” thing from other rps in rules. Being brought here, which makes me angry. Gatekeeping spreading into ranks of the clan: examples I’ve seen are - a player who didn’t read the future books saying that mediator isn’t canon, when weLl. It’s a later added role and the mediator was harming nobody. Med cat blocking: People try to limit med cats when all the meds agree they can work together. They say things like “there can’t bemore than 3” because that’s the most you see in the books or other alike quotes with whatever number of med there is. In my mind, as long as your rp doesn’t actively harm another it os *fine*. Who cares if there’s 5 meds? That just means if one leaves you don’t have none! Who cares if the deputy’s mate has their own special role? They’re not bothering anyone their just handing out patrols so the dep can be leader while the leader sits in a corner afk. Who cares if the leader retired with 3 lives left? ITS NOT A CRIME TO BE OLD.
Honestly, some people really bother me in ultimate edition and I hope your video manages to help bring awareness to these problems ^w^
swan, i cannot stress this enough and i agree with you literally SO much. i honestly wanted to make a rant about this too. and you know what irks me the most? it’s how people go to SUCH lengths to harass people on a kitty cat game for roleplaying as animals other than cats. i would understand if you do not want to role play with non cats, but going out of your way to harass them for it and make a scene? that is ABSOLUTELY NOT OKAY. i have been harassed on ultimate edition myself for just being my silly squirrel warrior called shadedcloud. i have to CHECK if the clan is non cat friendly before i roleplay. i personally get pretty paranoid about roleplaying without my friends to help me in case something went wrong. something that i’d also like to back up is how the developers don’t make the rules. it’s very simple, really. i doubt it’d even take them at least a week to make rules, meanwhile they are over here making prey update and a remodel that isn’t even a confirmed feature. i mean no disrespect to the developers, but this is getting out of hand and it needs to be stopped. and, to think people are SO TRIGGERED about a non cat in a cat game that they’d send death threats and slurs and anything harmful to someone all because of the metaverse? it takes a lot to make videos like these, and i am hearing your voice, swan. as your friend and as a fellow non cat role-player.
@@shrimpma first of all, i never said i was oppressed. second, what is this comment even supposed to mean
@@shrimpma we never said we're oppressed, we're just calling out how these sensitive obnoxious wcue players go so far when they see someone rping as something that doesn't fit their rp standards on some stupid cat rp game on roblox lmao
I really couldn’t agree more. They NEED to add rules. Without the discord people don’t have the rules and there are so many people who can’t access the discord and therefore can’t access the rules. I want to shove the rules in the harassers faces and watch the shock on their faces as they realize my noncat OC’s are allowed lmao
I wouldn’t expect much considering the devs have a history of making racist comments, having hypocritical and generally annoying mods, and users who don’t know how to take a joke
As somebody who still struggles with feeling excluded because of how i was treated as a kid, I cant imagine how these kids feel without rules. If there were rules, most chances are these kids wouldnt get bullied left and right for not being an "experienced" roleplayer. Yes, sometimes it is more fun to roleplay with your peers, but thats what private servers are for. You have to expect non-cats and new roleplayers if youre going into a public server because you cant control that. Warriors is a big outlet for kids, and them being ignored, or "voided" by people just because they dont speak or look a certain way can affect them so much. Some people mean well, and just want to roleplay when somebody is being disruptful, but in most cases i see people are RELENTLESS. that could be a 9 year old who is lonely irl, and just wants to make friends youre talking to.
I am so confused. I don't understand why it's so hard to add a "rules" section. There must be something wrong with the developers.
You're absolutely correct! Even though there's the "TOS" rules, that doesn't help the actual game or roleplays. I really hope they add rules so there's a better understanding of what's allowed and what isn't. The impact of Forest has implanted so many strict rules that it's now become a mindset to many people.
Rule lists are heavily useful for *ANY* roleplay game! Citing rules that can be seen, instead saying "there's rules on discord" is far less useful since people won't believe you. I was also one of those ex-gatekeepers, and I can say I was in the wrong when I disliked noncats, but only because I was taught to believe anything that wasn't strictly seen in the books was unrealistic. Of course, I've changed now and seen the issues of my past.
I hope they add rules, not just for the sake of people stopping their harassment, but so they know that they're in the wrong [at least the ones who accept it] and change for the better. We already know rules won't help every situation but, it's better to have them than to not have them.
I also personally want rules, because of a very specific triggering topic people seem to think is a good idea to rp. I would say what but I rather not, it's pretty bad.
Coming to an end here, Thank you Swan for putting together this amazing video and speaking out about the issues of not having ingame rules.
the only reasons i could even think of for not adding rules is that they dont want to limit creativity and that people might uphold the rules to a T, making little mini-mods pop up and disrupt
still, neither of those are good enough reasons to not add rules
I agree with all this, rules should of been added ages ago its a bit unfair how its been quite a few months since release and we've gotten no rules but they have the time to add other stuff that would defiantly take longer to add to the game. I don't understand the how difficult it is to write some rules on a game, if they can add all these prey updates and stuff rules shouldn't be a problem at all. If I could add rules to the game I would of done it when the game released. Ive been Dagger and almost every time I have (which is quite often) I've had some anti non cats say things like 'wolves can't be in clans' 'its unrealistic' 'wolves don't look like that' 'have you even read the books?' and so much more and its honestly annoying to put up with. The fact people can even lie to kids about what the rules are sucks as well because kids can believe a lot of things and would most likely believe some dude telling them 'its against the rules to roleplay like that' or 'its against the rules to be something that isn't a cat' and they'll probably continue to believe that for quite a long time, maybe even forever and I think about it and I wish there were rules in the game to prevent this since if a kid was told this and there were rules in game they'd be able to go see if its true or not instead of joining the Discord which is for 13+. If a kid wanted to see the rules they'd have to go join Discord when they are too young which isn't great at all
I remember playing After the Flash a ton because honestly it was a very cool and fun game. The only reason that I hated it and still kind of do is the toxicity in the game. I don't want Warrior Cats to become like that.
i hope acorn'tail gets mawled by a cat #wap
mauled*
@@shrimpma your a person named hehe telling people to get help over a character. Do you see how wack you look?
I’ve had mods entirely shut me down or argue over this more than once, every point made and given in what is damn near essays to just be shut down with “It won’t change anything”, “It’s just ToS”, bla bla bla and no response to things like “So what’s the benefit of not having it compared to having it?” Or any of the points made. It’s getting unbearably ANNOYING. “It’s just ToS!” Does ToS suddenly stop all the rule breakers on every game? Do kids go out of their way to read ToS? Its just do they genuinely want to keep putting strain on their moderators and player base alike, because even people don’t bother listening to mods in game about the rules.
Gotta love the argument of “If people don’t read TOS, they won’t read a rule list”, when I and many others have read Forest Territory’s rules several times when we used to play it while never even TOUCHING ToS. This is ridiculous.
Fr! ToS =/= A rule list in a game. To find the roblox ToS you literally have to go and look for it too, but people are a lot more likely to look into the rules of something they genuinely put the care into (like wcue). Roblox is just the host for these games, not the games themselves, No kid is really looking at roblox like a game itself but rather the things hosted in it.
There is so many issues with wcue that I could list, and you covered quite a bit of them. For one the invisible and totally real “Noncats not allowed” rule that many people seem to try and establish into a game without any visible rules. It’s makes me so angry when I see someone try and bully people into changing their morph cause “It’s not realistic, foxes can’t be in a clan” when In reality it’s most likely people who either haven’t seen the rules or haven’t actually been allowed into the server due to their age. So many rules get broken due to this issue, I’m not saying lift the age limit off the server but more like they need to have a rules tab or section in the game so this issue doesn’t happen and saves a lot of stress on mods/roleplayers parts. Even though I don’t play the game often other then to design characters I still see this issue pop up. Sorry for the mini rant I normally can’t say this in the wcue server without getting a mute/warning for ranting
I find it weird that they just don’t add the rules in the game- like they have rules, but that at their discord server not inside of the game which why, like not everyone can access discord mainly because they either too young to have discord or just don’t want to download discord or they have discord but are not in the Ultimate server like myself, because of this most players are unaware that there’s actual rules and you most the time end in a somewhat disruptive server… players power playing, players just harassing others, just general chaos, like is it that hard to add at least a rule button that lists the rules? Or maybe when you enter the game you get greeted by the rules and you have to read them before to play? Cause every other roleplaying game I played has rules… again like I said Ultimate has rules but in their discord server which is a problem because not everyone has discord and the game has none so you just asking for chaos tbh
Personally myself, I don’t roleplay as a noncat or have noncanon names(unless roleplaying as a loner or kittypet). I support those that do, however. I’m just very stubbornly sticking by the books. A rule system would be amazing in the game. Something that would take them a week to figure out collectively rather than the damn prey update, or the twig-thin remodel that isn’t even confirmed.
Commenting to help that algorithm! Great video, touched on plenty of good points and I really hope it gets out there.
I'm so glad to see people bringing up issues, I've been wanting to complain abt how the discord operates for a while, but I enjoy the game without the server & I don't want to risk being banned for speaking out after what I've heard about the whole issue with the cultural appropriation
& god fucking forbid you try to give feedback that isn't kissing the dev's asses, I get fucking dogpiled every time i so much as breath in a suggestion channel, especially by Delta, so i know bringing them up in the server wont do anything
also the moderators being majority *minors* is an issue, especially with the amount of times I've run into ERP on that game, minors handling those issues doesnt sit right with me AT ALL
I don't understand why ppl hate non-cats, like chill out. I sometimes play the game and be a different animal, just because mainly they are all cats, not hating or anything, but if it is just cats it is not as fun, but still pretty fun. And I know 'warrrior' cats, but being a non-cat is fine. Ppl need to chill out.
Edit: late
There definitely should be some form of rules implemented in the game. It might not keep lunas and trolls away, but at least you can't blame your behavior on not being able to access discord. If rules ever are added, the should not be as strict as the Forest Territories rules were. I saw a person get kicked because they had a prefix of 'Cocoa', but rules are needed. Maybe some people won't read the rules. That's their bad. Thanks for making the video! (The only reason I don't play as a non-cat anymore is because I'm scared. I don't want to be harassed because I'm playing as a fox or dog. I still have the dog oc, not the fox anymore. I just don't want to get voided for no reason.)
This wasn't what the video was about. If anything, the video is in support of so-called "lunas" as well as noncats. The rules are able to defend these players from harassment that comes from the older generation of gatekeepers who refuse to accept the players into the game simply because of outdated and unsupported concepts; not adding a rule list in-game is only perpetuating the problem. I fully support noncat players and new/young players; I myself own many noncat OCs that I get constantly harassed and bullied for, and I deeply believe a rule list could resolve many of the disputes because noncat/new players can just point to the rule list in-game so they know they're a victim and the harasser knows their old rules don't apply anymore.
@@swanfeathertheelder I knew about the non-cat thing, but not the lunas- thanks for clearing it up xD. I try to support newer players as well. I guess I wasn't paying attention- I was reading the comments while watching :/
Swann!!! Hhghg, I agree with this so much! Honestly, I have seen several people use the Starpedia as rules and say what's there is rules but it's just a suggestion!! This would stop so many arguements over things. Could help with anti-noncats who say noncats ae against the rules cuz BAM they don't have discord!! Not EVERYBODY has Discord, there needs to be rules in the game so more no discord people are educated!! Sorry this is so mixed up, super tired.
I know I'm pretty late to the party by a few months as someone who doesn't have many or no noncat ocs I dont know why the heck people don't like noncats? They aren't hurting you like bro go drink a lemon ice tea and chill out
It's so sick, really. It's almost like WCUE being the successor to Forest Territory, a game with such perfect rules as "No tail fades allowed" is going to be its' downfall because the developers choose to not do anything to prove those old mistakes otherwise. /s
this entire video is such an immense display of cognitive dissonance i dont think youve ever seen the sun
ok
With all due respect, the addition of rules is practically impossible due to the licensing. While admins and moderators have not been very communicative, full on going as so far as to say they're being incompetent is a bit of a stretch. Sure, there are tons of harassers, threats, and borderline ERP within the game that goes unreported due to not being in the DISCORD but this is seen on just about every ROBLOX game ever. It is an issue, yes, but impossible to battle alongside a large playerbase and ROBLOX as a point. I am not arguing against rules being added or at least being more available to players, because they should, but the toxicity of a playerbase cannot always be changed with the snap of a finger and a rulebook.
You compared Ultimate Edition to After the Flash which is a good comparison because they have one thing in common. The extensive 'lore' is beloved by both their fans and, because most roleplayers are older, they want things to be perfect. They see anyone who roleplays anything differently from the regular (for example Ultimate Edition's non-cats/powers) as childish because those who do are usually children. I'm not saying that non-cats, unique roleplayers on ATF, and powered-roleplayers are childish, but rather the majority of that fanbase is usually of the younger generation. Both communities ARE quite toxic at times but the moderators can only encourage players in game and within the DISCORD to stop this.
If you ask a Warrior Cat's fan what their favorite arc is there is a good chance they'll say the First Arc/Into the Wild. This is probably because it has well-developed characters, an interesting story, and fairly good writing within the book. It also has a lack of powers and animals within the clans which leans more towards a semi-realistic output. This could possibly explain why most Warrior Cats are not so lenient to powers or non-cats compared to books/games like Wings of Fire.
As for harassment, ROBLOX has many forms of preventing this aside from moderators within the game. The block feature, the mute feature, and even the feature to block who can join your games could and has easily prevented forms of harassment. For bans it is a little bit of a harder story but the one thing ROBLOX does do right is let players ignore other players with features given to them. No one should receive death threats or be borderline stalked on the internet but there are safe ways to prevent this.
Trying to get rid of toxicity is difficult behind such a beloved and old series where most people have grown up. I'm not saying Ultimate is perfect in any way, because it's not, and they do need to communicate more to their playerbase, but they are attempting at the very least in forms of DISCORD moderation to help their players which is better than nothing at all. If you want to be unbothered by 'toxic' people I recommend buying a private server, meeting people within the DISCORD where if you ARE harassed you can block them and call a mod if it gets extensive and out of your control, inviting friends, and doing your own thing because most of the ideas/points you gave will most likely not ever be achieved.
Unfortunately when I made the video, I was more angry than rational, and had not heard anything at all from the devs about the problem. Only after the video was posted did Pav tell me that it’s currently impossible for them to add rules (though he can’t tell why). I could figure out that it must be some sort of legal issue due to the company they work with, which I can understand absolutely isn’t their fault, so you’re right. However, even with that, I still stand by my original point, as I believe that an association with an official company like the Erins is not as important as the safety of a playerbase. To be fair, I don’t know how Pav and Bav would resolve it, but if they can, they should - which includes drawing out of the agreement to become an “official” game.
And I do agree with your analysis of the Warriors fandom, nothing really to add except that the many forums and games the fandom has had over the years only ever contributed to the problem. It’s compounded on itself many times with people constantly parroting the same demand “KEEP IT REALISTIC!!” to try to achieve a book-accurate atmosphere.
And yes, I know that Roblox has their own ways of resolving cases of TOS-breaking in games. But as you yourself said, we have to keep in mind who is getting harassed, and it’s often either young players who know nothing about the game or how to stand up for themselves, or old players under the influence of the fandom’s gatekeeping. They are much more likely to cave to harassers’ demands to be a “good roleplayer” rather than ignore everyone who counters them, especially without rules present. They can even become harassers themselves. So it’s not just about magically scaring the harassers off with a list of what not to do; it’s also about letting the victims know they’re victims, since they often don’t.
So I do agree my tone towards the devs needs to be toned down tenfold. We don’t know how difficult things are for them at the moment. But there still is a massive issue that needs to be resolved in the meantime, and I’d much rather give up the game’s “official” status than allow it to keep going on.
@@swanfeathertheelder It doesn't work like that. They aren't going to cut ties with the company because you're upset about rules not being ingame. That has the same energy as telling someone to quit their job if they don't like it. You can't just do stuff like that, it ISN'T easy and it won't resolve anything.
I know it isn’t easy, and I would never ask the devs directly to do this sort of thing unless I understood it in and out. So I do acknowledge that the situation must be complicated legally, and it’s very possible they have their hands tied in a way we don’t know about. But if they do have a way to prioritize playerbase safety over their association with a company, then I do believe the former should come first. Always.
@@swanfeathertheelder The issue here is that you think player safety goes hand in hand with rules. Player safety has nothing to do with in-game rules. EVERY game in ROBLOX has the same issues as WCUE, whether there are rules or not. This is not an issue of safety or accessibility (which, as a disabled person with genuine criticisms of how WCUE can adapt to be more accessible, adding rules is not on the list), this is simply an issue of a minority of people being ignorant. Which is not going to change if rules are added. People will always be ignorant.
People will always be ignorant, yes, but not everyone is ignorant out of malice. Some are ignorant out of genuine lack of information or of misinformation (as I already talked about in my video), and by giving harassers the tools to know they’re harassers, and victims the tools to know they’re victims, we can reduce (not eliminate, but reduce) the cases of abuse we see on the game. Having rules present and able to be easily accessed is actually very much an important aspect of player safety.
yes
I do not agree, Xosxzti.
@@phytological blocked
go off mama tea hunty
Honestly? Yea. I agree. I hate how the rules aren't in the game. I'm a very active noncat roleplayer, and I'm kinda pissed all you got from pav seeing the video is basically "no haha you're wrong
I'm honestly getting fed up with this game because of controversies like this. It doesn't even make sense why the devs are SO against adding a few paragraphs of text into their game, and yet here they are putting a ton of effort into shiny new models. At the moment, the game has a serious problem with bullying, gate keeping, and even sexual harassment/trolling. I've experienced all these things in game, and I wish the devs would take this issue more seriously instead of treating people as if they're intolerable piss ants for requesting something like this. In game rules may not stop EVERYONE from committing bad behavior, but it's still effective, and shouldn't be ignored just because roblox has a self reporting system that doesn't even work that much. In most cases I've been in, the harasser either logs out of the game before any one has a chance to report them, or they're still in the game like 2 hours after they've been reported by multiple people. It's frustrating to have to always be paranoid of herb stealers whenever you play as a medicine cat, and even when I've played alone (as a rogue living in the Moonstone tunnels for example) people would give me shit for it by asking why I'm playing by myself, or voiding me whenever I so much as say "hi" to them. Considering that children are the game's main demographic, the devs need to take more responsibility in keeping them safe from creeps and bullies. I've met many people who've felt discouraged from playing the game because of all the harassment that occurs, and nowadays, the idea of having to deal with other players makes me less inclined to join any clans or groups. The game may have been intended to be played with other people, but when you have to constantly combat with assholes and weirdos while trying to destress, playing on my own is the most fun I've ever really had in the game.
And that's just the thing: I think another reason why there are so many people acting out in the game is because the game itself is really boring. Things like prey & hunting mechanics and a combat system should have been added in the game before it was fully released because right now, we're getting situations where people troll and steal herbs due to boredom. At the moment, the only game play that really exists is being able to pick up certain objects like sticks and leaves, and gaining the ability to use herbs to heal cats' injuries, but that's it. Outside of those two things, all the game really is is walking around a pretty looking map and talking to random people. There just isn't really any entertainment value atm, which can easily cause people (especially children) to become restless and frustrated, causing them to lash out in order to get a reaction from ppl. While I understand that the majority of the dev team are minors who have their own irl things to deal with, that doesn't mean that things like in game rules and vital game play mechanics should have been ignored when they're so vital in providing the best game play experience. There's a chance that if the mods had waited a bit longer and implemented important mechanics outside of picking up things and healing customizable scratches that this game wouldn't have such a huge issue with harassment. If you have to depend solely on the good intentions/ attentiveness of other people in order to have fun in a video game, then, I'm sorry but you didn't do a good job at making a video game. If the devs want to show us that they have their priorities in order, they would stop making excuses and put the damn rules in already, and quit acting as if we shouldn't be expecting more out of a lack luster experience!
Thank you for making this video! It's nice to hear a formal discussion on this issue, and to be able to give my own opinions on this game without being yelled at and accused of being entitled.
its called warrior cats for a reason hunnie it ain't warrior rats
The point is that the game allows people to have warrior rats and therefore has a responsibility to protect them.
@@swanfeathertheelder none of us want your fucking bird oc in a clan. never heard of predator and prey? research it. goodnight.
I mean if you look through the comments there’s plenty of people who are okay with it. And I put a lot of effort into my OCs. Here’s an AMV i made for my squirrel warrior’s backstory if you’re interested: ruclips.net/video/qnuJltHIXN0/видео.html
@@swanfeathertheelder i hope that squirrel gets eaten
Lmao ok