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Correction: The motor seals need to be changed every 30,000-60,000 km, not miles. Thank you Vierka for pointing this out. I love my commenter. You make the channel better.
My respect level for Aptera just went up even higher than it already was. This most definitely is not a sales pitch like what everyone else would put out. The strict nature of keeping to the facts and capabilities is outstanding. I love seeing this from a company. It also gives people a much better idea of what's going on and definitely instills the fact that they are really going to make it to production this time.
@@apterareboot1555 I believe that companies such as Kandi should learn from Aptera's transparency. Transparency and good will is a strong component in customer and investor loyalty and retention.
Also posted to Reddit. It was a great discussion and showed that people in different parts of the world have been working for the same general goal for over a decade. Elaphe was inspired by the Aptera founders when they met them in the original company.
I now have an investment (minimum $1K) with you guys. Everything I see (as Electronics Engineer) is highly practical and very encouraging. I write this about a year after this video was posted. I will probably (as near penniless retiree) never be able to buy one of your cars, but would sure like you to succeed - big time. You are doing great ground-breaking work I reckon. Hope your production plans are coming to fruition shortly. Been watching you guys for over a year now and while you do not seem to be as fast-moving as TESLA in respect of development, it certainly appears you are devoted to crossing 't's and dotting 'i's before you push the button. Best of wishes Aptera team.
15:45 Motor going to a spa....: Bring it to Australia and I will give it a workout: potholes, bull dust, temps around 50°C and mad Aussi's in V8s wanting to race you.
I want one One drawback with trike configuration as opposed to quad is With 4 wheels you have 2 wheel tracks that can straddle most potholes With 3 the rear wheel is impacting that hole almost unavoidably I've lived on my dirt road for 2 decades It's difficult enough with two on my trumpy I have a Bionx electric recumbent trike My 1st Ev And in that I have to be aggressively agile and often unsuccessful in avoiding that rear wheel impact But Ohh I want 1 anyway Hope they make it And it shows up here
This car is amazing. I hope it will be available in Europe some day. Years ago I imagined a Loremo (low resistance car from Germany) to be equiped with in-wheel motors and batteries. The Aptera is much better than that. This is going to be a hit.
I want these men to produce this vehicle. I am in line as many of you. I want to drive this, really drive it. If I could get work rest driving for Aptera I would set my CDL aside for a time to do so.
Thank you , Reboot, for this Show & Update ! My coming to decide if keeping my drivetrain simplified as a FrontWheelDrive (2 engines) or going to a more sophisticated 3 (AllWheelDrive) engines is still up in the air. However, i do have plenty of faith that conundrum will be decided for i & all those in ?'ing on which way to go... long before production road ready for the USA. ALL OF YOU FELLA'S ARE FANTASTIC and are so desperately needed to bring humanity into option in purchasing a REAL SUBSTAINATIVE 2 passenger EV...that will always be charging via solar w/Easy Plug into a 110v home wall plug! RIGHT ON !
I am gung ho and must have one and even invest. Wonderful concepts in play and becoming functional, soon we hope. Bravo Aptera. We are so glad you have a good shot to chase Tesla for becoming one of , if not THE best EVs of all time. We hope you can solve the Elon Musk point- 'producing cars is hard and making a profit, even harder"
Just curious how Elaphe managed to design effective and durable seal between rotor and stator in this type of motor. I think this is the most delicate and vulnerable part. All standard EVs should have that type of drive (direct in-wheel drive). Admire you guys.
Since the motors will need to be changed every 40 to 60 thousand miles, how much should an owner budget for their replacement? This is not exactly like changing brake pads, I don't think. Please advise.
Not the motors, but the seals. This doesn't seem to be beyond the skills of a regular shade tree mechanic, and could probably be economically done at the same time as tire changes. They are continuing development of the seals, and service intervals could well be better by the time the production vehicles are shipping.
@@n.brucenelson5920 ok, that's much much more reasonable. lol Then it is like changing brake pads. Maybe easier, because I once scraped a knuckle changing brake pads. XD
Bearings and seals I could see going bad. But the magnets and copper parts of the motor should never need to be replaced. $40 in seals, $100 in labor tops. Unless they are gonna go the way of tesla and make parts so rare a high price is put on whatever spare parts are out there.
They test for that, spraying freeezing salt water spray at the wheels. They are well sealed against that. Apparently the seals need to be replaced every 80 thousand miles or so. Something to get done when you need to replace the tires. Its a DIY job if you're mechanical, or any garage mechanic can do it with the provided instructions.
Since the wheel motors produce heat, it would be very unlikely for slush to build up under the wheel pants. It it were somehow to occur, they can be simple unclipped for cleaning.
Great project, got my reservation in. Puzzled by the need of disk brakes: looking at typical battery recharge rates you could braking all 3 wheels an aggressive version of regen. For legal reasons you will still need a parking brake function on one wheel and will need to conserve the brake paddle that works this the braking function. ps: To homologate a vehicle wider then 2 metres will be very difficult/impossible in any where other the the USA.
I think their concern is putting to much load on the motors over time. I live in flatland Florida so not a problem here but I can imagine this being in issue in more hilly places.
@@apterareboot1555 With the disk brakes shown as lodged inside the motor I don't think thermal stress is the issue. With regen braking a good part of the energy is taken out of the wheel as electricity with the disk brake all will have to be evacuated by the liquid cooling system: best of luck on a long decent!
There is no way regenerative breaking would be adequate in emergency stops. Ideally all normal stopping should be done by regenerative breaking, but the motor would have to be far to large to get the stopping power required for emergency stops.
@@matthewhuszarik4173 OK Matthew but a motor that manages to spin the wheel (traction control permitting) during acceleration so they should be able to do the same to slow down. Yes it will require to redimension the regeneration components, introduce a "E" brake pedal and software. All this must be worth it to get rid of the hydraulics. Solution to be found for a parking brake when the electronics are turned off.
@@RAHellemans I didn’t say they had to have hydraulic breaks just another method of breaking beside regenerative breaking. It is simple physics 0-60 mph in 3.5secs is great performance 60-0mph in 3.5sec is not.
Aptera did post the full interview if anyone wants to go watch the missing portion of this recording: ruclips.net/video/S9_UTks8m9c/видео.html The video is currently unlisted, so the only way you can get to it is with this direct link.
What is involved in changing the motor's seals? Is it something which could be completely or partly done at home. If not, would the Aptera need to be brought to a service center? Will over the air updates be available? Thank you. Good job. Keep us posted.
I haven't seen the procedure, but I think that it is likely to be a pretty simple process that could be done when the tires are changed. The seal design is still being worked on, and things may change before Apteras are shipping.
Aptera is pretty committed to Elaphe for the foreseeable future. Going with in-wheel motors significantly reduces part count, weight, production cost and time while increasing vehicle performance and range.
Good question. Likely there is a spare in the trunk below the cargo space and considering the Aptera's unique design, I hope the company will also provide the tools you need to handle this somewhat common situation.
@@apterareboot1555 I was told by them there's no plan to include a spare, so you may need to get one separately. If you do, be mindful that the rear tire may be of a different dimension than the two front ones. At which point, might that be 2 separate types of spares you might need to have if you're planning a long trip? Either than or purchase a premium AAA plan where they will be by you in a jiffy to help you out. ;D I wonder if AAA does trips through Death Valley? lol
@@apterareboot1555 @Roland Smith No spare, due to weight and space to carry it. I would do what I did on my motorcycles - carry a plug kit and a dc air pump. The wheel pants just clip off and most repairs can be done road side in short order, faster than changing a tire.
This arrangement with everyone in the Aptera development team interacting on camera is extremely informative and well organized. Could you comment on problems experienced in the early Aptera with the "Moose test" and how newer Aptera versions have or have not completely resolved issues with that test? Thanks for your openness and honesty sharing these issues. - Jim
The new Aptera will have orders of magnitude better performance, including the moose test. Keep in mind we are still in the prototype phase so nothing is yet set in stone but one of the cool things highlighted in the presentation is torque vectoring which allows each tire to spin at a different rate. This ability will make the vehicle far more maneuverable and should be able to clear courses like the moose test and more. We will find out for sure when more real world data is released.
Have you done any crash testing yet? Is a 100 km per hour head on collision survivable? I'm thinking what happened to Tiger woods... not exactly walk away.. but he survived.. and what about 5mph bumpers...
Having motors in the wheels means the unsprung mass of the wheels is a huge problem: force=mass x acceleration or acceleration=force / mass so when the Aptera goes over a bump in the road the acceleration of the front wheels to lift the front wheels over the bump is very slow because of their large mass so the whole vehicle rides over the bump creating a very bumpy ride for the batteries, passengers & body of the Aptera. The stresses on the tires wheels & motors could damage them over time! If you hit a bump at high speed the tires could blow out! That is why low unsprung mass on a vehicle is usually a design goal? Like in German start-up Sono Motors affordable EV that can run on self-generated solar power alone. The Sion solar car will be sold for 27,873 USD. Drive is a three-phase asynchronous motor driving the rear wheels with a power of 120 kW (161 hp) & voltage of 400 V. Top speed 140 kph (87 mph). Sion has 50kW CCS DC & 22kW AC charging.
The Aptera wheel motors are around 50 lbs - not enough to cause big problems. The alpha prototypes WERE bumpy! I had a ride in one. But this has been fixed in the suspension redesign by Roush performance, and is being validated and tuned in the first beta. Aptera specs exceed those of the Sion for a base price of $26,900, a range of 250 miles, a top speed of 110 mph, and acceleration better than 5.5 seconds 0-60 mph for the 2WD version. Motors are either 2 or 3 X 50 kW and the same nominal 400 VDC.
You say it's easy to invest. But how exactly can you? I thought the only opportunity you have is when it's available via Wefunder and that last round closed in January.
@19:40 concerning salt getting into the motor, I did not find his response very compelling. From what I could make out (which is another concern) apparently his testing did not go into real world conditions enough to respond with a definitive answer. If this is a soft spot in the design, one would think extensive testing would be called for and I did not get that feeling from his response.
2CV? !! [edit] yeesh! Just placed order, am in the 19k order number range. I do assume that means theare >19000 actual orders and not simply a style of number. Most impressive demand, as last I heard at the end of Feb it was at 7k. I wll save my pennies.
That was a great car for its time and purpose - but safety was not a consideration in the design, where it is front and center with Aptera, along with efficiency.
@@n.brucenelson5920 I knew this French Mechanic who was obsessed with the 2CV, and wish all cars were as simple and fun to work with. So that was why I reacted so. May the Aptera be as much fun.
The actual order numbers are a bit lower because some people managed to make duplicates and then delete the extra one, or ordered accessories under a separate number. However the number order should stand, and the extra numbers are relatively small. Edit: you need to drop the leading 1.
Service intervals are not yet established because the design is still under development. The seals will be easy to change when tires are changed or rotated.
Thank you for your comment! I have informed Elaphe about it. I think that Aptera already has access to a superior BMS from Chris Anthony's work with his lithium battery company, but the motor control could be interesting. Thanks again!
Omg, I forgot about Exro. They were on Now You Know a few months back. This would be great for Aptera if Elaphe and Exro are willing to play nice with each other.
@@apterareboot1555 The reality is that the wheel motors are already so well optimized that there is not much more to gain, so this has to be compared to costs. At highway speeds, there will probably be little to no benefit, but at lower in town speeds, there could be efficiency gains, even though the energy losses in this realm are also tiny.
@@apterareboot1555 Elaphe is going to look into them. They are a little disappointed that there is not more information on the Exro web site about what they actually do, but at least there is a discussion starting.
Awesome! you're probably right about the motors being optimally tuned but it's still so early in the game that it wouldn't hurt to at least talk to Exro. I'm glad the talks are happening. Next Comma AI for autonomy (if that's not already a done deal).
I would like to upgrade the battery after ten plus years as battery's change, will I be able to buy a battery and change it myself. I am old I don't want to work for a year or more trying to buy another car for 20 thousand. I mean I'm praying for a 4 to 5 thousand elictric car to be sold without sub tax stuff, everyone wants a decent cheap EV. We all know a car like Aptera will be available in the USA before a China cheap car and that's not a bad thing if Aptera will make battery's easy to change when wanted.
Aptera grants right to repair. I expect there will be how to videos, and a choice of after-market suppliers in addition to Aptera themselves, just as there are now for the Gen 1 Honda Insight. I don't know if it will be that easy - these things are heavy! but it will be possible.
@@n.brucenelson5920 ok sounds nice because where there is a will there is a way, anoff time solid state battery's will be around for shore and then we will need Aptera to make a adapter because new cars will be switching to solid state battery's so we will have to wait and see but lithium nowadays is great. I would love a extra charger connection in the trunk, because apartments and condos I would buy two portable batteries with backpacks to switch between easily. I don't always want to have to go to a charging station. I mean I could easily use a good backpack to carry a 30 plus mile battery after work for charging then I could easily buy a elictric car and keep it safe from thieves. Stores and jobs and apartments and everywhere a battery pack with solar would easily solve the lack of elictric infrastructure desperately needed.
Please, hand held mics for each guest. Why is standard 3 wheel steering unstable enough to require torque vector assist? Is that why the street videos are all going 25 mph? Don't think 80 mph on I-80 in Wyoming will be such a good idea as I had hoped. Did this interview actually take place a year ago? Not yet ready for prime time it would seem.
Kind of long answer but I'll give it a shot. The 2 front 1 rear design I actually very stable. Most vehicles have steering issues which for the most part have bee solved via a Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) system which sense the angular momentum and applies micro breaking to the different wheels to counter the rolling tendency (look up Toyota Hilux Moose Test). It's basically Newton's First Law of motion. The heavier and higher the center of gravity, the worse the effect. The Aptera has a low center of gravity but has a good amount of weight (batteries included), low rolling resistance and 1 fewer point of contact in the rear. So when you turn sharply, it want to continue in the previous direction. Torque vectoring applies both breaking to the motion you want to stop and adds more rotation in the direction you actually want to go. I hope this helps. Maybe I'll make a video explain this in more detail.
It's not that it is "unstable enough to require torque vector assist". It's the fact that the motor is in the hub, you throw away the whole transmission box, drive shaft, transaxle system saving you a lot of space, weight, and transmission torque loss. throwing out the transaxle includes throwing out the differential. So torque vector is to help replace the function of a differential. Torque vectoring does away the need for a differential.
thx for video ! i see all kinds of hardware i can replace w/ titanium parts ! less unsprung weight ! and how about some nice Carbon brakes ? ( we have them on our Ferrari ! they are awesome ! Lightweight: Carbon brakes are significantly lighter than steel brakes. If the factory does NOT offer them as one of many possible performance options I will ! ( our family is one of the MANY who have a reservation ! ) We make performance parts and special titanium parts for Ferrari's ( and other cars ! )
clickbait thumbnail - 0-60 is 3.5 seconds for AWD, which is fast, but same as Performance Model Y and slightly slower than Performance Model 3. Not even close to S/X. Also not a great screen recording of the call, but I guess it's all we've got for now. They should release an official recording of it soon.
Model 3 performance is the closest Tesla to compare it to. You're getting the same 0-60 time for $10,000 less and much better range performance by a lot. And from what Steve and Chris are indicating, the 0-60 MIGHT actually be better than the model 3 performance. Only time will tell how true any of this is; but I'm excited to see variety in the EV market.
@@apterareboot1555 I'd be very happy if it does beat a P3D since that's what I drive now. That's the main reason I picked AWD for my Aptera. I don't want to drive a slow car again. Even at 3.5 it's quick and will feel completely different than a heavier car.
@@n.brucenelson5920 Thats a lie, it never needs plugging in at all, has no range anxiety, and cost less than a BEV, and a more traditional driving experience, and in many cases better resale. those are advantages. The disadvantages are correctly what you list. Also hybrids and traditional cars are more labor intensive and have more parts, which means jobs for people, it takes 3 times as many people to make them, and there are all of the related industries. this people will be driven them out of jobs with an all electric fleet, which is part of the plan. Telsa had one full year of profit, out of a decade of being in the red and tax pa yers paid to keep them afloat, with almost $10000 per car, plus grants loans and energy credits, they are a classic case of corporate welfare for billionaires, like the rest of the auto industry. And no after they ran out of credits, they are about to get them again, and they do not need them, give them to traditional cars for a change, that actually employ americans.
@@Tigerex966 You are correct about Tesla, but not about the construction methods compared to Aptera. Most hybrids are made in factories that require large tooling costs and have high parts counts. They save on labor by using robots. Aptera is using a completely different construction model that comes from the marine industry. They will use human labor rather than robots to build the car. They save tremendous cost through a dramatically smaller parts count and no massive tooling expense. The assembly plant is in the San Diego area and will provide well paying jobs to Americans. They will provide relatively more jobs per car and will be able to make a fair profit even with no subsidies.
@@n.brucenelson5920 You are right, I can see that, I still would like a optional gas generator to power the motors under the cargo area, nothing huge maybe 5 gallons, That would easily add 500 miles of range, and very littler weight if done right, for up to 1500 miles of range in good conditions, and 0 range anxiety.
@@Tigerex966 Since Aptera gives you the right to repair, you would certainly have the right to do this yourself, and even develop an aftermarket kit for others. I rode motorcycles everywhere with about a 200 mile range - and occasionally much less with headwinds. In 400,00O miles I only coasted into a gas station with the motor sputtering one time. I will have the full solar option, so if I miss judge, the sun will give me some extra range. I also expect that the batteries will lose around 2 to 5 percent of their capacity per year of ownership.
There will surely be some! Just like the original VW Bug - I expect an entire aftermarket to grow up around this vehicle - especially with an explicit right to repair.
Well the next time I need to go down and pick up what they say they upped her and hold 400 rolls of toilet toilet paper I can race to the supermarket and get my 400 rolls of toilet paper for the next shortage LOL I think this car will be cool for anything they’ve even got a tent attachment to open it up and put a tent on it so you could have some heat cool in your tent for goodness sake’s off the car thank it’s going to be really successful
The way that drivers in low-taxed jurisdictions pay their taxes is by way of paying the mechanic to perform wheel alignments and tyre replacements. lol
As wheel motors become more common, I am sure that there will be many retrofit projects. However, converting them to BEV will probably greatly reduce maintenance and running costs. I am guessing that the present cost for the motors and controllers might be around 10K, and of course batteries depending on desired range. These costs are sure to come down quickly as volume increases.
@@n.brucenelson5920 yes the best way to stop pollution and increase economy is not to make totally new vehicles from scratch, but to instead prolong the current vehicles, and retrofit them with hybrid/electric drive trains, at an affordable price. I know I would gladly add an in wheel drive to my front wheel drive car, giving it all wheel drive, and the ability to use all electric, all gas, or both, this would be huge for apartment dwellers who cannot plug in at all. They would have all the electric station and gas station they could choose, in the winter gas for sure, in the summer electric, fall and spring both. It always good not to have all of your eggs in one basket. I am hoping they add an optional 5 gallon gas generator in the back that powers the electric motors, this could easily add 500 miles of range and totally eliminate range anxiety and 100%. Then even I would be interested. This does however look like a death trap in a crash with a standard car or truck, it really looks like a modified electric motorcycle with a full cars price.
@@Tigerex966 " the best way to stop pollution and increase economy is not to make totally new vehicles from scratch," I used to work in the petroleum industry. The company scientists have known for 50 years that this is not the case, but the companies have continued to sponsor paid "white papers" and astroturfing organizations to spread nonsense, just as big Tobacco did. As far as safety is concerned, as much attention has been paid to safety as to aerodynamics. The reason it "Looks" the way it does to you is because you have no experience with the properties of the materials they are using. It will be crash tested to automotive standards, and the ratings will tell a different story than what you are assuming. There are no other three wheelers that have been designed this way to compare with, but there are many of the same design elements in F1 race cars.
@@n.brucenelson5920 Its somewhere in the middle, as when you are making a brand new vehicle from scratch, you are not reusing what you already have, that alone is waste. If you can reasonable covert, perfectly fine, already made low mpg gas cars, to hybrid, and or electric, that can be a huge boost to mpg and cut pollution, then to just destroy one and build another, not to mention the majority of the grid is not solar and wind, and we saw in texas what depending on one form of energy can do to a population, we need to embrace all energy types, and use all, to their best efficiency, each has good and bad points, and each can be made better in a number of areas. I prefer hybrids, and gas, for a number of reasons, including job stability and growth for the average american worker, that would be instantly unemployed in an overly rush force communist style governmental push to electric cars with carbon taxes, bans and restrictions on all other vehicles. I like what they have here a car/motorcycle hybrid, light good aero, 2 seater, it actually reminds me of a modern day Honda Insight from back in the day taken to the extreme. Still a bit pricy, if their solar recharge number are anywhere near accurate on a sunny day, this will be great, same as their mileage range predictions. but remember this is have of a normal say civic hatchback, for quite a bit more the cost, and has no reliability record, or well known service stats or dealership network, or reputation, so you will need a lot of trust, and they will be getting government welfare to the tune of $%7500 per car, if they call it a car. Anyway its good to see tech move forward, but I stay concerned about the average american worker, and I think we can use gas, coal, oil, wind, solar, hydro, nuclear, bio, all together, not this or that but all, finding the balance is the right thing, while still preserving jobs, gas stations, and a good life.
@@Tigerex966 Funny that you should mention the Gen 1 Honda Insight - that is what I drive now. If the tax rebates to come are like the last present program and Aptera qualifies under the rules, the money doesn't go to them, but to the purchaser. Tesla got a fortune for clean air credits that they sold to other companies, but those were scheduled to be phased out. As it stands now, the petroleum industry has collected billions more in subsidies than green energy, and we need to end this thumb on the scale to encourage the transition that must come. We are in a period of rapid change - and need to be. Somewhere in the mix we still have to fund the roads, too. There is a lot that still must be figured out. Fortunately, we know from building the Interstate highway system that this kind of investment ends up being a boost rather than a cost to the economy.
how about actions taken to put this into production? I really don't find the minor details to be super important as that can lead to a lot of off focus - making the cars is way more important than talking about details
They have leased the manufacturing space near San Diego and are building two validation vehicles to test edge cases in the performance for handling and HVAC. Munro Associates is helping them set up the production line. Once this is done and the design is validated, they will build about a dozen "delta" vehicles that will go to reviewers and other places where people can see them in person. Finally, crash testing will be done on pre production models, and manufacturing will begin on the first few hundred Paradigm and Paradigm plus special addition models scheduled for the end of this year.
@@n.brucenelson5920 thanks that is a useful outline ; however the devil is in the details. I'd like to have a lot more production information. I am a bit concerned about the focus on engineering details of the vehicle rather than a focus on production. While I realize one wants to get it right first time; but there often is a desire by engineers to stick to what they like and try for perfection which never gets achieved; and production isn't what they like often. It is a motorcycle; they really don't have to be doing some of these steps, but they choose to market it more as a car and meet car standards; this sort of worries me about over engineering and never getting on the stick. What was the reason they failed on the first car? They ran out of money. I hope Mr Monroe will give them some push and expertise on production and move to getting vehicles out in quantity, they definitely don't need more models that is a distraction and waste of money and time. Producing should be their focus and the focus of reports. They can work on details in parallel and keep making improvements during production. There was a lot of focus on this report on minor engineering improvements; bad - they should be talking about making vehicles; setting up production lines, showing they can put out cars in quantity. I don't like hearing them focused on trivial engineering updates. Produce. Produce! "Begin" making the first few hundred? FINISH MAKING... these sorts of waffling words make me worried they are still off track on what they need to do .. MAKE THE VEHICLES , FILL THE ORDERS, Satisfy the customers. Production will relieve questions about their ability to get it done. This is key for them to be successful after failing before.
@@litestuffllc7249 Not by way of pushback, but to correct a point of fact: What was the reason they failed on the first car? They ran out of money. - This was not the same "they". It is rather the opposite. The founders were removed from the company because they tried to produce the vehicle that was ready, and the Detroit CEO that their startup incubator asked them to hire to oversee production decided first that he wanted to revise the design, and finally, build an entirely different car. He talked enough of the board and the investors over to his point of view to take over control of the company, and then liquidated it when the loan he had applied for didn't come through. This won't happen again.
@@n.brucenelson5920 Ok that is fair; but lets use the word Aptera. Did the first Aptera fail because they ran out of money? If that is the case; then the new Aptera needs to demonstrate they are different; maintaining their solvency while taking appropriate steps, not unnecessary steps, to move into production. If they are underwhelmed by the number of pre orders; credibility is the reason. While I understand the desire to get crash tests done; I, as a current pre-order customer really don't care and don't expect it to be as good as a car. If they prove it is at some point that's great, maybe I'll get better insurance rates; but I am more concerned they will burn up their money and never get vehicles out the door. When I hear about them wanting to design new models and worry about the aerodynamics of hinges, or doing car crash tests; and I am not hearing about production steps; that worries me. It gives me concern they are not in focus on the primary problem at hand; making vehicles and satisfying customers. Even if they are not the same "they" their credibility is going to be based on if they are going to make vehicles or not. The day they can prove they have a vehicle like the prototype out the door making the claimed efficiency and will produce enough to meet demand in a timely fashion; will be the day when they meet success. I predict if they do not get totally focused on making the current model NOW they will never make more than a handful ever. Elon said learning how to produce the car is much harder than making a prototype; I believe that and I believe this must be #1, #2 and #3 4 5 6 at Aptera or they simply will run out of money.
@@litestuffllc7249 I think you have missed the lesson in part. The first Aptera failed because they lost focus on building the car that they had preorders for and were offering. They ran out of money because they tried to switch horses in mid stream. Aptera is not "underwhelmed by the number of preorders" rather the opposite. Since people willing to place preorders at this early stage are likely to be under 1% of the market the number of preorders shows that demand is sufficient for them to be a rousing success - if they deliver what they have promised. You may not care about safety, but the Aptera founders do, and it is just an important focus on the vehicle they are promising as efficiency is. The quickest way to failure would be to deliver something other than what they have promised, just to get something out the door. Word of such a move would quickly kill the company, and there is no danger of that happening. Now that Sandy Munro has a financial stake in Aptera, their relationship is not just a financial one. He has put the reputation of his entire company on the line - which is about lean manufacturing. Aptera must get it right. Many of the new car introductions - not only Tesla, but also from the Big Three have missed their production targets and introduction dates as a result of Covid-19. Aptera will not be immune to the supply problems they are having for key components such as chips and air bags. A delay in delivery is one of the risk factors that Aptera has disclosed since they wrote their original business plan and began looking for money. If they can deliver a vehicle with the performance they have promised, even a few months delay will not be fatal to the company. The lesson you should take away from the first version of Aptera is that losing focus on that well defined vision is what would be dangerous. There are still important design details that have to be tested and proven before they can move on to even pre-production, and they are doing what they need to be doing right now. By the way, I say this as a Paradigm preorder holder, an investor, and an Aptera Brand Ambassador.
The image on this video proclaims "faster than Tesla" 3.5 second 0-60 is 1.5 second slower than the fastest Tesla. Its a good video, so why the clickbait?
I cant speak for the video creator, and I agree about click bait, but to be fair, he was probably comparing to the Model 3 standard range, since the Aptera is also an economy car. Even the 2 motor Aptera is faster than that is.
Yeah, trying to just focus on delivering the best content I can with the skills and tools I have now. If the show's any good it'll grow; if not, I improve or move on.
It always good not to have all of your eggs in one basket. I am hoping they add an optional 5 gallon gas generator in the back that powers the electric motors, this could easily add 500 miles of range and totally eliminate range anxiety and 100%. Then even I would be interested. This does however look like a death trap in a crash with a standard car or truck, it really looks like a modified electric motorcycle with a full cars price.
Motor - in - hub is a terrible design for any performance car. Adding unsprung weight at the wheels requires the suspension components to work all the harder to control jounce and rebound forces. It also exposes the motors to un-necessary amounts of contamination and vibration. By far, it is the one serious flaw that I see in the Aptera design.
Since heavy brakes and drive shafts are eliminated there is not as much unsprung weight added as you think. It adds independent wheel control, including differential steering and far more responsive traction control and ABS, plus the ability to do tank turns. This is not a design flaw but the beginning of a revolution. It also adds volume to the chassis that can be turned into crumple zones, making the vehicle safer. It is more efficient, eliminating the power loss and weight of a drive train. It moves a source of noise and EMI away from the passenger compartment. The advantages are compelling if the execution meets the design goals.
@@n.brucenelson5920 Would not the rear wheel have to swivel 90 deg. each way to do zero turns? That would add complexity. And you will still need to have actual brake components at each wheel. It won't pass safety muster without. I worked in heavy industry on mills and cranes that used dynamic and regen. braking and they were all required the have drum or disc friction braking systems in addition. I must stand by my assessment that hub motors will add substantial unsprung weight. They are, after all, made of heavy iron and copper and will be subjected to constant reciprocal motion that will shorten suspension component life. This will be an owners reliability issue for sure. There are few things in life as reliable and simple as a geared differential and CV drive shafts. I believe even Tesla uses them. Just stating all this for the sake of discussion, and I do hope these guys can pull this off.
I had an email discussion with Elaphe engineers about this some months ago, and I don't think this will happen based on the shock absorbing potting compound they are using.
REBOOT REBOOT REBOOT REBOOT - this is a car on the 4th generation and they haven't delivered one to a customer. They have no production plant, personnel, tools for the plant; nor supply chain. If they ever got their minds on making cars and delivering to customers maybe they'd get on track - they seem 100% committed to failing to do that.
@@noseonscent1935 Not sure if I understood your range question. Aptera has battery size options o d 25, 40, 60, and 100 kWh. This translates to a range of 250 to 1000 miles on the EPA highway cycle. At these speeds, which average 48-50 MPH, with a peak up to 67 MPH, the 100 kWh model uses less than 100 watt hours per mile. Did I understand your question?
@@n.brucenelson5920 No you did not. I mean I will not patently believe in a 1000 mile range until tested by a plethora of 3rd parties independently of course. No offense but the claim just sounds way too far fetched. Proof is in the pudding.
Now Aptera has decided to try and sell the initial production vehicles twice - to the original reservation holders who paid money and were given production number of the vehicle they were entitled to in that agreement and now "investors" are being told they will get the first vehicles. Shows what sort of fraud this is - of course the real answer is they won't have any production vehicles to give to anyone .. the only thing Aptera produces videos. If they put half the effort into producing their 3 wheel motorcycles - they'd be making some but now they are talking 2024 - oh JUST 4 YEARS LATE .. oh APTERA = FRAUD.
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Correction: The motor seals need to be changed every 30,000-60,000 km, not miles. Thank you Vierka for pointing this out.
I love my commenter. You make the channel better.
Please consider selling Aptera Reboot baseball caps on your swag store.
I would like to purchase one. Thank you.
@@paulrybarczyk5013 I will look into that.
@@paulrybarczyk5013 Thanks Paulry; I' m in for one too.
How to apply in your company sir? Thanks aptera
I really want the 2-seater to succeed so we can see the design logic applied to a family car. Keep up the great work!
You and me both!
My respect level for Aptera just went up even higher than it already was. This most definitely is not a sales pitch like what everyone else would put out. The strict nature of keeping to the facts and capabilities is outstanding. I love seeing this from a company. It also gives people a much better idea of what's going on and definitely instills the fact that they are really going to make it to production this time.
I actually think that the team at Aptera is underselling the vehicle's full potential capabilities.
@@apterareboot1555 I believe that companies such as Kandi should learn from Aptera's transparency. Transparency and good will is a strong component in customer and investor loyalty and retention.
And, I'm going to be honest here: Never have I wanted a company to succeed as I do for all the folks at Aptera. The Sol looks stunning.
Also posted to Reddit. It was a great discussion and showed that people in different parts of the world have been working for the same general goal for over a decade. Elaphe was inspired by the Aptera founders when they met them in the original company.
over 100 years to be exact.
....MORE LIES BRUCE? ....YOU AND OTHER COMMENT FAKE ON EACH OTHERS RUclips CHANNELS!! .....PURE LIES!
I now have an investment (minimum $1K) with you guys. Everything I see (as Electronics Engineer) is highly practical and very encouraging. I write this about a year after this video was posted.
I will probably (as near penniless retiree) never be able to buy one of your cars, but would sure like you to succeed - big time.
You are doing great ground-breaking work I reckon. Hope your production plans are coming to fruition shortly. Been watching you guys for over a year now and while you do not seem to be as fast-moving as TESLA in respect of development, it certainly appears you are devoted to crossing 't's and dotting 'i's before you push the button.
Best of wishes Aptera team.
15:45 Motor going to a spa....: Bring it to Australia and I will give it a workout: potholes, bull dust, temps around 50°C and mad Aussi's in V8s wanting to race you.
Don't worry, the Aptera will be the ultimate sleeper-mobile, waiting to blow them away! :D
@@fanfare100
I believe that too...
it’ll be perfect for Australian conditions, have ordered the trimotor.
I thought that a guy named Max had the last of the V8s.
I want one
One drawback with trike configuration as opposed to quad is
With 4 wheels you have 2 wheel tracks that can straddle most potholes
With 3 the rear wheel is impacting that hole almost unavoidably
I've lived on my dirt road for 2 decades
It's difficult enough with two on my trumpy
I have a Bionx electric recumbent trike
My 1st Ev
And in that I have to be aggressively agile and often unsuccessful in avoiding that rear wheel impact
But
Ohh
I want 1 anyway
Hope they make it
And it shows up here
This car is amazing. I hope it will be available in Europe some day. Years ago I imagined a Loremo (low resistance car from Germany) to be equiped with in-wheel motors and batteries. The Aptera is much better than that. This is going to be a hit.
Isn't time for an update here?
i ordered mine 2 wks ago.....YEAH !!!! 3/'21 EXPECT IT NTO BE READY 6 to 18 mos.. ...i am in no rush but eager i be.
OK EAGER! ....WE KNOW .... YOU KEEP WAITIN! ....ALLL LIES!
Ive never seen two companies play so well together. Peas in a pod.
I want these men to produce this vehicle. I am in line as many of you. I want to drive this, really drive it. If I could get work rest driving for Aptera I would set my CDL aside for a time to do so.
Thank you , Reboot, for this Show & Update ! My coming to decide if keeping my drivetrain simplified as a FrontWheelDrive (2 engines) or going to a more sophisticated 3 (AllWheelDrive) engines is still up in the air. However, i do have plenty of faith that conundrum will be decided for i & all those in ?'ing on which way to go... long before production road ready for the USA.
ALL OF YOU FELLA'S ARE FANTASTIC and are so desperately needed to bring humanity into option in purchasing a REAL SUBSTAINATIVE 2 passenger EV...that will always be charging via solar w/Easy Plug into a 110v home wall plug! RIGHT ON !
I'm gonna love the insurance rates as a motorcycle. I can't wait to get one.
.....FAKE COMMENTS! .....
Fascinating. How exciting it must be to be playing with such creative team!
I am gung ho and must have one and even invest. Wonderful concepts in play and becoming functional, soon we hope.
Bravo Aptera. We are so glad you have a good shot to chase Tesla for becoming one of , if not THE best EVs of all time.
We hope you can solve the Elon Musk point- 'producing cars is hard and making a profit, even harder"
Enjoyed this and pray that it will be in a price range for the retired!
-40c is -40f. (40*9/5)+32 = -40
I had to laugh at that one. American engineers generally know, because many of us have had to learn to think in both systems.
Just curious how Elaphe managed to design effective and durable seal between rotor and stator in this type of motor. I think this is the most delicate and vulnerable part. All standard EVs should have that type of drive (direct in-wheel drive). Admire you guys.
Great point! only time will tell how effective it will be but preliminary testing looks impressive.
Since the motors will need to be changed every 40 to 60 thousand miles, how much should an owner budget for their replacement? This is not exactly like changing brake pads, I don't think. Please advise.
Not the motors, but the seals.
This doesn't seem to be beyond the skills of a regular shade tree mechanic, and could probably be economically done at the same time as tire changes. They are continuing development of the seals, and service intervals could well be better by the time the production vehicles are shipping.
@@n.brucenelson5920 ok, that's much much more reasonable. lol Then it is like changing brake pads. Maybe easier, because I once scraped a knuckle changing brake pads. XD
Bearings and seals I could see going bad. But the magnets and copper parts of the motor should never need to be replaced. $40 in seals, $100 in labor tops. Unless they are gonna go the way of tesla and make parts so rare a high price is put on whatever spare parts are out there.
How will winter weather (slush) affect the wheels and boots?
They test for that, spraying freeezing salt water spray at the wheels. They are well sealed against that. Apparently the seals need to be replaced every 80 thousand miles or so. Something to get done when you need to replace the tires. Its a DIY job if you're mechanical, or any garage mechanic can do it with the provided instructions.
Since the wheel motors produce heat, it would be very unlikely for slush to build up under the wheel pants. It it were somehow to occur, they can be simple unclipped for cleaning.
@@fotoguru222 nicely said.
@@n.brucenelson5920 doesn't sound like rust or corrosion will be an issue.
No monster potholes in Europe? May I invite you on a trip through Belgium and Italy, to name but two countries?
Will you use the suspension movement as the pump to move the cooling fluid?
Still in the prototype phase. Aptera will announce more details over the next few month.
magnetic bearings are self sealing, you are on the right track, i would need the off-road version.....
Did you happen to record the zoom call today on March 30th for the aptera ambassadors?
Motor Heat/cooling?
Is that waste heat used for cabin warming?
ie: Does the Aptera have an old school small radiator with a valve in the dashboard?
Great project, got my reservation in. Puzzled by the need of disk brakes: looking at typical battery recharge rates you could braking all 3 wheels an aggressive version of regen. For legal reasons you will still need a parking brake function on one wheel and will need to conserve the brake paddle that works this the braking function.
ps: To homologate a vehicle wider then 2 metres will be very difficult/impossible in any where other the the USA.
I think their concern is putting to much load on the motors over time. I live in flatland Florida so not a problem here but I can imagine this being in issue in more hilly places.
@@apterareboot1555 With the disk brakes shown as lodged inside the motor I don't think thermal stress is the issue. With regen braking a good part of the energy is taken out of the wheel as electricity with the disk brake all will have to be evacuated by the liquid cooling system: best of luck on a long decent!
There is no way regenerative breaking would be adequate in emergency stops. Ideally all normal stopping should be done by regenerative breaking, but the motor would have to be far to large to get the stopping power required for emergency stops.
@@matthewhuszarik4173 OK Matthew but a motor that manages to spin the wheel (traction control permitting) during acceleration so they should be able to do the same to slow down. Yes it will require to redimension the regeneration components, introduce a "E" brake pedal and software. All this must be worth it to get rid of the hydraulics. Solution to be found for a parking brake when the electronics are turned off.
@@RAHellemans I didn’t say they had to have hydraulic breaks just another method of breaking beside regenerative breaking. It is simple physics 0-60 mph in 3.5secs is great performance 60-0mph in 3.5sec is not.
Aptera did post the full interview if anyone wants to go watch the missing portion of this recording: ruclips.net/video/S9_UTks8m9c/видео.html The video is currently unlisted, so the only way you can get to it is with this direct link.
What is involved in changing the motor's seals? Is it something which could be completely or partly done at home. If not, would the Aptera need to be brought to a service center? Will over the air updates be available? Thank you. Good job. Keep us posted.
I haven't seen the procedure, but I think that it is likely to be a pretty simple process that could be done when the tires are changed. The seal design is still being worked on, and things may change before Apteras are shipping.
With the all wheel drive will we be able to shut off the rear wheel off at times and just run with the front two motors?
Has Aptera investigated the new Yamaha motors also?
Aptera is pretty committed to Elaphe for the foreseeable future. Going with in-wheel motors significantly reduces part count, weight, production cost and time while increasing vehicle performance and range.
Peace… Shalom… Salam... Namaste and Thank You Everybody for All that you are doing for our Mother Earth 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ 🌷 ☮️❤️
Could you ask in the future occasion Whether Aptera will be adaptable to self driving at a future time.?
Level 2 can be ordered now and will be OTA upgradable.
Hello my questions is very Simply, Aptera the test or finally is ok or no? Because is ridiculous annonced a performance is not really?
What if you are in the middle of nowhere and get a flat tire? Is there a spare and how do you open the wheel shrouds?
Good question. Likely there is a spare in the trunk below the cargo space and considering the Aptera's unique design, I hope the company will also provide the tools you need to handle this somewhat common situation.
@@apterareboot1555 I was told by them there's no plan to include a spare, so you may need to get one separately. If you do, be mindful that the rear tire may be of a different dimension than the two front ones. At which point, might that be 2 separate types of spares you might need to have if you're planning a long trip? Either than or purchase a premium AAA plan where they will be by you in a jiffy to help you out. ;D I wonder if AAA does trips through Death Valley? lol
@@apterareboot1555 @Roland Smith No spare, due to weight and space to carry it. I would do what I did on my motorcycles - carry a plug kit and a dc air pump. The wheel pants just clip off and most repairs can be done road side in short order, faster than changing a tire.
This arrangement with everyone in the Aptera development team interacting on camera is extremely informative and well organized.
Could you comment on problems experienced in the early Aptera with the "Moose test" and how newer Aptera versions have or have not completely resolved issues with that test? Thanks for your openness and honesty sharing these issues. - Jim
The new Aptera will have orders of magnitude better performance, including the moose test. Keep in mind we are still in the prototype phase so nothing is yet set in stone but one of the cool things highlighted in the presentation is torque vectoring which allows each tire to spin at a different rate. This ability will make the vehicle far more maneuverable and should be able to clear courses like the moose test and more. We will find out for sure when more real world data is released.
Have you done any crash testing yet? Is a 100 km per hour head on collision survivable? I'm thinking what happened to Tiger woods... not exactly walk away.. but he survived.. and what about 5mph bumpers...
When are you starting to plan 3 and 4 sites aptera? 50% of the job is down.
Having motors in the wheels means the unsprung mass of the wheels is a huge problem:
force=mass x acceleration or acceleration=force / mass so when the Aptera goes over a bump in the road the acceleration of the front wheels to lift the front wheels over the bump is very slow because of their large mass so the whole vehicle rides over the bump creating a very bumpy ride for the batteries, passengers & body of the Aptera. The stresses on the tires wheels & motors could damage them over time! If you hit a bump at high speed the tires could blow out! That is why low unsprung mass on a vehicle is usually a design goal? Like in German start-up Sono Motors affordable EV that can run on self-generated solar power alone. The Sion solar car will be sold for 27,873 USD. Drive is a three-phase asynchronous motor driving the rear wheels with a power of 120 kW (161 hp) & voltage of 400 V. Top speed 140 kph (87 mph). Sion has 50kW CCS DC & 22kW AC charging.
The Aptera wheel motors are around 50 lbs - not enough to cause big problems. The alpha prototypes WERE bumpy! I had a ride in one. But this has been fixed in the suspension redesign by Roush performance, and is being validated and tuned in the first beta. Aptera specs exceed those of the Sion for a base price of $26,900, a range of 250 miles, a top speed of 110 mph, and acceleration better than 5.5 seconds 0-60 mph for the 2WD version. Motors are either 2 or 3 X 50 kW and the same nominal 400 VDC.
Your Junk Car Flyer and Elise Bunny Videos are an hoot! XD
Are the batteries splitted by three and positioned by each wheel (to reduce losses)?
No. They are laid out on the floor of the vehicle under the seats, and in the case of the 100 kWh version, angled behind them as well.
You say it's easy to invest. But how exactly can you? I thought the only opportunity you have is when it's available via Wefunder and that last round closed in January.
The previous round was just closed. There should be a new round coming up later this month. Stay tuned. I will post a video once it's open.
@19:40 concerning salt getting into the motor, I did not find his response very compelling. From what I could make out (which is another concern) apparently his testing did not go into real world conditions enough to respond with a definitive answer. If this is a soft spot in the design, one would think extensive testing would be called for and I did not get that feeling from his response.
2CV? !!
[edit] yeesh! Just placed order, am in the 19k order number range. I do assume that means theare >19000 actual orders and not simply a style of number. Most impressive demand, as last I heard at the end of Feb it was at 7k. I wll save my pennies.
That was a great car for its time and purpose - but safety was not a consideration in the design, where it is front and center with Aptera, along with efficiency.
@@n.brucenelson5920 I knew this French Mechanic who was obsessed with the 2CV, and wish all cars were as simple and fun to work with. So that was why I reacted so. May the Aptera be as much fun.
The actual order numbers are a bit lower because some people managed to make duplicates and then delete the extra one, or ordered accessories under a separate number. However the number order should stand, and the extra numbers are relatively small.
Edit: you need to drop the leading 1.
What does it take to replace a motor seal? If I live on the opposite coast what will that mean?
Service intervals are not yet established because the design is still under development. The seals will be easy to change when tires are changed or rotated.
....YOU MADE THAT QUESTION UP ALL BY YOURSELF? ....WOW!
Thank you for using 5, instead of 4 lug nuts.
Probably only need 3 bolts per wheel - save 6 bolts per vehicle - time & money - volume production would push toward 3 bolt solution.
Ok, so salt is a problem, then? Too bad. Maybe they'll overcome that. I didn't see wipers. I wonder if they'll have defrost/defog.
Motors have passed 100 hour salt spray testing without damage. wipers are hidden under the cowl. An A/C compressor and defrost/defog are standard.
They need to talk with EXRO They are able to get more range and power out of any electric motor with the same amount energy.
Thank you for your comment! I have informed Elaphe about it. I think that Aptera already has access to a superior BMS from Chris Anthony's work with his lithium battery company, but the motor control could be interesting. Thanks again!
Omg, I forgot about Exro. They were on Now You Know a few months back. This would be great for Aptera if Elaphe and Exro are willing to play nice with each other.
@@apterareboot1555 The reality is that the wheel motors are already so well optimized that there is not much more to gain, so this has to be compared to costs. At highway speeds, there will probably be little to no benefit, but at lower in town speeds, there could be efficiency gains, even though the energy losses in this realm are also tiny.
@@apterareboot1555 Elaphe is going to look into them. They are a little disappointed that there is not more information on the Exro web site about what they actually do, but at least there is a discussion starting.
Awesome! you're probably right about the motors being optimally tuned but it's still so early in the game that it wouldn't hurt to at least talk to Exro. I'm glad the talks are happening.
Next Comma AI for autonomy (if that's not already a done deal).
Well....truth is beauty.
.....AND THIS AIN'T TRUTH! ....ALL LIES!
I would like to upgrade the battery after ten plus years as battery's change, will I be able to buy a battery and change it myself. I am old I don't want to work for a year or more trying to buy another car for 20 thousand. I mean I'm praying for a 4 to 5 thousand elictric car to be sold without sub tax stuff, everyone wants a decent cheap EV. We all know a car like Aptera will be available in the USA before a China cheap car and that's not a bad thing if Aptera will make battery's easy to change when wanted.
Aptera grants right to repair. I expect there will be how to videos, and a choice of after-market suppliers in addition to Aptera themselves, just as there are now for the Gen 1 Honda Insight.
I don't know if it will be that easy - these things are heavy! but it will be possible.
@@n.brucenelson5920 ok sounds nice because where there is a will there is a way, anoff time solid state battery's will be around for shore and then we will need Aptera to make a adapter because new cars will be switching to solid state battery's so we will have to wait and see but lithium nowadays is great. I would love a extra charger connection in the trunk, because apartments and condos I would buy two portable batteries with backpacks to switch between easily. I don't always want to have to go to a charging station. I mean I could easily use a good backpack to carry a 30 plus mile battery after work for charging then I could easily buy a elictric car and keep it safe from thieves. Stores and jobs and apartments and everywhere a battery pack with solar would easily solve the lack of elictric infrastructure desperately needed.
"let me show you the motor"
From far away, with bad lighting.
Jeze, let the nerds get a good look, I wanna see.
🙄, that. Worse tease ever. Hopefully improved for the next presentation.
Great video, good information
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My please. Please subscribe for more great content to come.
@@apterareboot1555 Ya estoy suscrito... , DONE... 👍👍👌👌👋🙌
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Please, hand held mics for each guest. Why is standard 3 wheel steering unstable enough to require torque vector assist? Is that why the street videos are all going 25 mph? Don't think 80 mph on I-80 in Wyoming will be such a good idea as I had hoped. Did this interview actually take place a year ago? Not yet ready for prime time it would seem.
Kind of long answer but I'll give it a shot.
The 2 front 1 rear design I actually very stable. Most vehicles have steering issues which for the most part have bee solved via a Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) system which sense the angular momentum and applies micro breaking to the different wheels to counter the rolling tendency (look up Toyota Hilux Moose Test). It's basically Newton's First Law of motion. The heavier and higher the center of gravity, the worse the effect. The Aptera has a low center of gravity but has a good amount of weight (batteries included), low rolling resistance and 1 fewer point of contact in the rear. So when you turn sharply, it want to continue in the previous direction. Torque vectoring applies both breaking to the motion you want to stop and adds more rotation in the direction you actually want to go.
I hope this helps. Maybe I'll make a video explain this in more detail.
It's not that it is "unstable enough to require torque vector assist". It's the fact that the motor is in the hub, you throw away the whole transmission box, drive shaft, transaxle system saving you a lot of space, weight, and transmission torque loss. throwing out the transaxle includes throwing out the differential. So torque vector is to help replace the function of a differential. Torque vectoring does away the need for a differential.
how much in Etherium?
Less than it was 4 weeks ago 😉
thx for video ! i see all kinds of hardware i can replace w/ titanium parts ! less unsprung weight ! and how about some nice Carbon brakes ? ( we have them on our Ferrari ! they are awesome ! Lightweight: Carbon brakes are significantly lighter than steel brakes.
If the factory does NOT offer them as one of many possible performance options I will ! ( our family is one of the MANY who have a reservation ! ) We make performance parts and special titanium parts for Ferrari's ( and other cars ! )
clickbait thumbnail - 0-60 is 3.5 seconds for AWD, which is fast, but same as Performance Model Y and slightly slower than Performance Model 3. Not even close to S/X.
Also not a great screen recording of the call, but I guess it's all we've got for now. They should release an official recording of it soon.
Model 3 performance is the closest Tesla to compare it to. You're getting the same 0-60 time for $10,000 less and much better range performance by a lot. And from what Steve and Chris are indicating, the 0-60 MIGHT actually be better than the model 3 performance.
Only time will tell how true any of this is; but I'm excited to see variety in the EV market.
@@apterareboot1555 I'd be very happy if it does beat a P3D since that's what I drive now. That's the main reason I picked AWD for my Aptera. I don't want to drive a slow car again. Even at 3.5 it's quick and will feel completely different than a heavier car.
Thats cool , no space is wasted in the car, I only hole they make a hybrid gas battery system.
I own a hybrid system. At this point, it has no advantages over a BEV, and adds cost and complexity.
@@n.brucenelson5920 Thats a lie, it never needs plugging in at all, has no range anxiety, and cost less than a BEV, and a more traditional driving experience, and in many cases better resale. those are advantages.
The disadvantages are correctly what you list.
Also hybrids and traditional cars are more labor intensive and have more parts, which means jobs for people, it takes 3 times as many people to make them, and there are all of the related industries.
this people will be driven them out of jobs with an all electric fleet, which is part of the plan.
Telsa had one full year of profit, out of a decade of being in the red and tax pa yers paid to keep them afloat, with almost $10000 per car, plus grants loans and energy credits, they are a classic case of corporate welfare for billionaires, like the rest of the auto industry.
And no after they ran out of credits, they are about to get them again, and they do not need them, give them to traditional cars for a change, that actually employ americans.
@@Tigerex966 You are correct about Tesla, but not about the construction methods compared to Aptera. Most hybrids are made in factories that require large tooling costs and have high parts counts. They save on labor by using robots.
Aptera is using a completely different construction model that comes from the marine industry. They will use human labor rather than robots to build the car.
They save tremendous cost through a dramatically smaller parts count and no massive tooling expense. The assembly plant is in the San Diego area and will provide well paying jobs to Americans. They will provide relatively more jobs per car and will be able to make a fair profit even with no subsidies.
@@n.brucenelson5920 You are right, I can see that, I still would like a optional gas generator to power the motors under the cargo area, nothing huge maybe 5 gallons, That would easily add 500 miles of range, and very littler weight if done right, for up to 1500 miles of range in good conditions, and 0 range anxiety.
@@Tigerex966 Since Aptera gives you the right to repair, you would certainly have the right to do this yourself, and even develop an aftermarket kit for others.
I rode motorcycles everywhere with about a 200 mile range - and occasionally much less with headwinds. In 400,00O miles I only coasted into a gas station with the motor sputtering one time. I will have the full solar option, so if I miss judge, the sun will give me some extra range.
I also expect that the batteries will lose around 2 to 5 percent of their capacity per year of ownership.
Does this have interior climate controls? I.e. the dreaded power hungry AC?
Yes.
I like to have a Dealership in a nearby state. I like to fly to San Diego for a meeting. Randell Kim, I'm on the youtube too
Not sure why ppl think it competition Elon has said wants more and more EVs to be sucessful to clean the planet
Competition is good for that very same reason.
Tesla may become an Aptera supplier, but I am sure that the biggest issue in the negotiations is that Aptera insists on right to repair.
Be advised that any exaggeration or slieght of hand when reporting specs will bite you on the ass in short order
Most reported specs will be exceeded in the production models.
Is that why people are going to buy this thing, to go racing?
There will surely be some! Just like the original VW Bug - I expect an entire aftermarket to grow up around this vehicle - especially with an explicit right to repair.
Well the next time I need to go down and pick up what they say they upped her and hold 400 rolls of toilet toilet paper I can race to the supermarket and get my 400 rolls of toilet paper for the next shortage LOL I think this car will be cool for anything they’ve even got a tent attachment to open it up and put a tent on it so you could have some heat cool in your tent for goodness sake’s off the car thank it’s going to be really successful
@@n.brucenelson5920 .....MORE LIES BRUCE? ....
The way that drivers in low-taxed jurisdictions pay their taxes is by way of paying the mechanic to perform wheel alignments and tyre replacements. lol
I wish they could retrofit it to current vehicles, making them hybrid.
As wheel motors become more common, I am sure that there will be many retrofit projects. However, converting them to BEV will probably greatly reduce maintenance and running costs. I am guessing that the present cost for the motors and controllers might be around 10K, and of course batteries depending on desired range. These costs are sure to come down quickly as volume increases.
@@n.brucenelson5920 yes the best way to stop pollution and increase economy is not to make totally new vehicles from scratch, but to instead prolong the current vehicles, and retrofit them with hybrid/electric drive trains, at an affordable price.
I know I would gladly add an in wheel drive to my front wheel drive car, giving it all wheel drive, and the ability to use all electric, all gas, or both, this would be huge for apartment dwellers who cannot plug in at all.
They would have all the electric station and gas station they could choose, in the winter gas for sure, in the summer electric, fall and spring both.
It always good not to have all of your eggs in one basket.
I am hoping they add an optional 5 gallon gas generator in the back that powers the electric motors, this could easily add 500 miles of range and totally eliminate range anxiety and 100%.
Then even I would be interested.
This does however look like a death trap in a crash with a standard car or truck, it really looks like a modified electric motorcycle with a full cars price.
@@Tigerex966 " the best way to stop pollution and increase economy is not to make totally new vehicles from scratch,"
I used to work in the petroleum industry. The company scientists have known for 50 years that this is not the case, but the companies have continued to sponsor paid "white papers" and astroturfing organizations to spread nonsense, just as big Tobacco did.
As far as safety is concerned, as much attention has been paid to safety as to aerodynamics. The reason it "Looks" the way it does to you is because you have no experience with the properties of the materials they are using. It will be crash tested to automotive standards, and the ratings will tell a different story than what you are assuming. There are no other three wheelers that have been designed this way to compare with, but there are many of the same design elements in F1 race cars.
@@n.brucenelson5920 Its somewhere in the middle, as when you are making a brand new vehicle from scratch, you are not reusing what you already have, that alone is waste.
If you can reasonable covert, perfectly fine, already made low mpg gas cars, to hybrid, and or electric, that can be a huge boost to mpg and cut pollution, then to just destroy one and build another, not to mention the majority of the grid is not solar and wind, and we saw in texas what depending on one form of energy can do to a population, we need to embrace all energy types, and use all, to their best efficiency, each has good and bad points, and each can be made better in a number of areas.
I prefer hybrids, and gas, for a number of reasons, including job stability and growth for the average american worker, that would be instantly unemployed in an overly rush force communist style governmental push to electric cars with carbon taxes, bans and restrictions on all other vehicles.
I like what they have here a car/motorcycle hybrid, light good aero, 2 seater, it actually reminds me of a modern day Honda Insight from back in the day taken to the extreme.
Still a bit pricy, if their solar recharge number are anywhere near accurate on a sunny day, this will be great, same as their mileage range predictions.
but remember this is have of a normal say civic hatchback, for quite a bit more the cost, and has no reliability record, or well known service stats or dealership network, or reputation, so you will need a lot of trust, and they will be getting government welfare to the tune of $%7500 per car, if they call it a car.
Anyway its good to see tech move forward, but I stay concerned about the average american worker, and I think we can use gas, coal, oil, wind, solar, hydro, nuclear, bio, all together, not this or that but all, finding the balance is the right thing, while still preserving jobs, gas stations, and a good life.
@@Tigerex966 Funny that you should mention the Gen 1 Honda Insight - that is what I drive now.
If the tax rebates to come are like the last present program and Aptera qualifies under the rules, the money doesn't go to them, but to the purchaser. Tesla got a fortune for clean air credits that they sold to other companies, but those were scheduled to be phased out.
As it stands now, the petroleum industry has collected billions more in subsidies than green energy, and we need to end this thumb on the scale to encourage the transition that must come.
We are in a period of rapid change - and need to be. Somewhere in the mix we still have to fund the roads, too. There is a lot that still must be figured out.
Fortunately, we know from building the Interstate highway system that this kind of investment ends up being a boost rather than a cost to the economy.
If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is, We shell see.
Bin the "music" !!!
how about actions taken to put this into production? I really don't find the minor details to be super important as that can lead to a lot of off focus - making the cars is way more important than talking about details
They have leased the manufacturing space near San Diego and are building two validation vehicles to test edge cases in the performance for handling and HVAC. Munro Associates is helping them set up the production line. Once this is done and the design is validated, they will build about a dozen "delta" vehicles that will go to reviewers and other places where people can see them in person. Finally, crash testing will be done on pre production models, and manufacturing will begin on the first few hundred Paradigm and Paradigm plus special addition models scheduled for the end of this year.
@@n.brucenelson5920 thanks that is a useful outline ; however the devil is in the details. I'd like to have a lot more production information. I am a bit concerned about the focus on engineering details of the vehicle rather than a focus on production. While I realize one wants to get it right first time; but there often is a desire by engineers to stick to what they like and try for perfection which never gets achieved; and production isn't what they like often. It is a motorcycle; they really don't have to be doing some of these steps, but they choose to market it more as a car and meet car standards; this sort of worries me about over engineering and never getting on the stick. What was the reason they failed on the first car? They ran out of money. I hope Mr Monroe will give them some push and expertise on production and move to getting vehicles out in quantity, they definitely don't need more models that is a distraction and waste of money and time. Producing should be their focus and the focus of reports. They can work on details in parallel and keep making improvements during production. There was a lot of focus on this report on minor engineering improvements; bad - they should be talking about making vehicles; setting up production lines, showing they can put out cars in quantity. I don't like hearing them focused on trivial engineering updates. Produce. Produce! "Begin" making the first few hundred? FINISH MAKING... these sorts of waffling words make me worried they are still off track on what they need to do .. MAKE THE VEHICLES , FILL THE ORDERS, Satisfy the customers. Production will relieve questions about their ability to get it done. This is key for them to be successful after failing before.
@@litestuffllc7249 Not by way of pushback, but to correct a point of fact: What was the reason they failed on the first car? They ran out of money. -
This was not the same "they". It is rather the opposite. The founders were removed from the company because they tried to produce the vehicle that was ready, and the Detroit CEO that their startup incubator asked them to hire to oversee production decided first that he wanted to revise the design, and finally, build an entirely different car. He talked enough of the board and the investors over to his point of view to take over control of the company, and then liquidated it when the loan he had applied for didn't come through. This won't happen again.
@@n.brucenelson5920 Ok that is fair; but lets use the word Aptera. Did the first Aptera fail because they ran out of money? If that is the case; then the new Aptera needs to demonstrate they are different; maintaining their solvency while taking appropriate steps, not unnecessary steps, to move into production. If they are underwhelmed by the number of pre orders; credibility is the reason. While I understand the desire to get crash tests done; I, as a current pre-order customer really don't care and don't expect it to be as good as a car. If they prove it is at some point that's great, maybe I'll get better insurance rates; but I am more concerned they will burn up their money and never get vehicles out the door. When I hear about them wanting to design new models and worry about the aerodynamics of hinges, or doing car crash tests; and I am not hearing about production steps; that worries me. It gives me concern they are not in focus on the primary problem at hand; making vehicles and satisfying customers. Even if they are not the same "they" their credibility is going to be based on if they are going to make vehicles or not. The day they can prove they have a vehicle like the prototype out the door making the claimed efficiency and will produce enough to meet demand in a timely fashion; will be the day when they meet success. I predict if they do not get totally focused on making the current model NOW they will never make more than a handful ever. Elon said learning how to produce the car is much harder than making a prototype; I believe that and I believe this must be #1, #2 and #3 4 5 6 at Aptera or they simply will run out of money.
@@litestuffllc7249 I think you have missed the lesson in part. The first Aptera failed because they lost focus on building the car that they had preorders for and were offering. They ran out of money because they tried to switch horses in mid stream.
Aptera is not "underwhelmed by the number of preorders" rather the opposite. Since people willing to place preorders at this early stage are likely to be under 1% of the market the number of preorders shows that demand is sufficient for them to be a rousing success - if they deliver what they have promised.
You may not care about safety, but the Aptera founders do, and it is just an important focus on the vehicle they are promising as efficiency is. The quickest way to failure would be to deliver something other than what they have promised, just to get something out the door. Word of such a move would quickly kill the company, and there is no danger of that happening.
Now that Sandy Munro has a financial stake in Aptera, their relationship is not just a financial one. He has put the reputation of his entire company on the line - which is about lean manufacturing.
Aptera must get it right. Many of the new car introductions - not only Tesla, but also from the Big Three have missed their production targets and introduction dates as a result of Covid-19. Aptera will not be immune to the supply problems they are having for key components such as chips and air bags. A delay in delivery is one of the risk factors that Aptera has disclosed since they wrote their original business plan and began looking for money. If they can deliver a vehicle with the performance they have promised, even a few months delay will not be fatal to the company.
The lesson you should take away from the first version of Aptera is that losing focus on that well defined vision is what would be dangerous. There are still important design details that have to be tested and proven before they can move on to even pre-production, and they are doing what they need to be doing right now.
By the way, I say this as a Paradigm preorder holder, an investor, and an Aptera Brand Ambassador.
The image on this video proclaims "faster than Tesla"
3.5 second 0-60 is 1.5 second slower than the fastest Tesla.
Its a good video, so why the clickbait?
I cant speak for the video creator, and I agree about click bait, but to be fair, he was probably comparing to the Model 3 standard range, since the Aptera is also an economy car. Even the 2 motor Aptera is faster than that is.
That was rearly interesting an informative, thank you very much an the best of luck. M
wooo
You have too many commercials in your videos
Talk is cheap - buyers can only hope to find actual results to find "cost of operation" and MSRP of vehicle and decide what to buy.
I get uncomfortable when the top guys have to ask a third party to explain how their vehicle is going to work.
I put my money down
....SURE YOU DID! HAAAAAA!
-40ºC =-40ºF
Get rid of the damn ads!!!!!
Well see nomore - could be but few have been so wise to make such an investment.
Just stop apologizing for your work.
Yeah, trying to just focus on delivering the best content I can with the skills and tools I have now. If the show's any good it'll grow; if not, I improve or move on.
- 40 c = - 40 f
It always good not to have all of your eggs in one basket.
I am hoping they add an optional 5 gallon gas generator in the back that powers the electric motors, this could easily add 500 miles of range and totally eliminate range anxiety and 100%.
Then even I would be interested.
This does however look like a death trap in a crash with a standard car or truck, it really looks like a modified electric motorcycle with a full cars price.
Keep your personal life to yourself!
Motor - in - hub is a terrible design for any performance car. Adding unsprung weight at the wheels requires the suspension components to work all the harder to control jounce and rebound forces. It also exposes the motors to un-necessary amounts of contamination and vibration. By far, it is the one serious flaw that I see in the Aptera design.
Since heavy brakes and drive shafts are eliminated there is not as much unsprung weight added as you think. It adds independent wheel control, including differential steering and far more responsive traction control and ABS, plus the ability to do tank turns. This is not a design flaw but the beginning of a revolution. It also adds volume to the chassis that can be turned into crumple zones, making the vehicle safer. It is more efficient, eliminating the power loss and weight of a drive train.
It moves a source of noise and EMI away from the passenger compartment. The advantages are compelling if the execution meets the design goals.
@@n.brucenelson5920 Would not the rear wheel have to swivel 90 deg. each way to do zero turns? That would add complexity. And you will still need to have actual brake components at each wheel. It won't pass safety muster without. I worked in heavy industry on mills and cranes that used dynamic and regen. braking and they were all required the have drum or disc friction braking systems in addition.
I must stand by my assessment that hub motors will add substantial unsprung weight. They are, after all, made of heavy iron and copper and will be subjected to constant reciprocal motion that will shorten suspension component life. This will be an owners reliability issue for sure. There are few things in life as reliable and simple as a geared differential and CV drive shafts. I believe even Tesla uses them.
Just stating all this for the sake of discussion, and I do hope these guys can pull this off.
Potholes will kill the motors.
I had an email discussion with Elaphe engineers about this some months ago, and I don't think this will happen based on the shock absorbing potting compound they are using.
A two seater with only 3 wheels is faster than a Tesla. Never. I won't here of it?
Faster than a Tesla Model 3 standard range - by a lot.
Your messing with the screen while they are talking is very annoying.
Sorry, but this Backwards Tricycle Motorcycle is only a novelty like the Segway was. Nothing else.
Why not rename it into GayMobile, that be more trans axel inclusive
Perhaps not everyone feels secure enough about themselves to drive one. That's OK, since they can't make enough for everyone anyway. ;-)
REBOOT REBOOT REBOOT REBOOT - this is a car on the 4th generation and they haven't delivered one to a customer. They have no production plant, personnel, tools for the plant; nor supply chain. If they ever got their minds on making cars and delivering to customers maybe they'd get on track - they seem 100% committed to failing to do that.
...IT'S A INVESTMENT "BAIT-CAR" ...YOU INVEST ...STOCK GOES TO ZERO ....YOU LOOSE!
The music is terrible!
Sorry Bub, no waay in Hades this will be nearly as fast as new Plaids. Sorry, nice try guvnah...next. Nothing to see here folks.
It will cost a fraction of the Plaids and gain range faster while charging. It is an economy vehicle that still offers remarkable performance.
@@n.brucenelson5920 Agree it is a cool vehicle but range? Still not sold but we will see.
@@noseonscent1935 Not sure if I understood your range question. Aptera has battery size options o d 25, 40, 60, and 100 kWh. This translates to a range of 250 to 1000 miles on the EPA highway cycle. At these speeds, which average 48-50 MPH, with a peak up to 67 MPH, the 100 kWh model uses less than 100 watt hours per mile.
Did I understand your question?
@@n.brucenelson5920 No you did not. I mean I will not patently believe in a 1000 mile range until tested by a plethora of 3rd parties independently of course. No offense but the claim just sounds way too far fetched. Proof is in the pudding.
@@noseonscent1935 Gamma vehicles will be available to independent reviewers later in the year.
Lost the first 3 minutes off my life.
Now Aptera has decided to try and sell the initial production vehicles twice - to the original reservation holders who paid money and were given production number of the vehicle they were entitled to in that agreement and now "investors" are being told they will get the first vehicles. Shows what sort of fraud this is - of course the real answer is they won't have any production vehicles to give to anyone .. the only thing Aptera produces videos. If they put half the effort into producing their 3 wheel motorcycles - they'd be making some but now they are talking 2024 - oh JUST 4 YEARS LATE .. oh APTERA = FRAUD.
No comparison; Aptera is not a car.
This is a legal fiction. Aptera fills every functional role of a car, including crash safety testing. If it walks like a duck....
Faster than Tesla? Is this a joke? This is a toy.