Incredible Results: Berger Factory .223 (73gr BT Target vs 77gr OTM Tactical)
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- Опубликовано: 20 фев 2024
- Full Story: ultimatereloader.com/v7m5
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We’ve previously recreated Berger’s 77 grain OTM Tactical load and had great results with our .223 trainer. This time we decided to directly compare Berger’s two .223 factory loads: 77 grain OTM Tactical and 73 Grain BT Target. The results are incredible - watch to find out!
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Tie breaker idea…5 golf balls at 200 yards with a 22lr. Who can clear them with the fewest shots?
Guy is one of my favorite guys on RUclips! He is old and loves to shoot and hunt so u can relate to his perspective even if I am older then him!
Hell, I'm younger than him. But he seems like a dude that could swap stories with the best of 'em. Good to have him around the channel.
We can't even get this ammo here in Australia. If we did, i kid u not it would be at least $4 a round. A round. Great vids Gavin. Appreciate ur knowledge mate. Outstanding.
I love Berger bullets. I put together 20 shots at 1.4” at 100yds with my 16” AR. I’m pretty happy with those results even tho others do way better. Constantly trying to improve :)
That ain't nothing to sneeze at, my friend. Good work
What optic are you running on your 16"? I have a 1-8 Nightforce on mine, but I can't see well enough to make tight groups at 100 without putting a higher power optic on it for testing.
@@whiplash636 personally, I'd invest in even a cheap spotting scope rather than swapping glass, but that's just me. Also, if you have a kid, get them a pair of binoculars and let them try to reign your shots in lol
@@whiplash636 vortex diamondback 6-24. I’ve had it forever and it’s honestly my favorite optic. People pop on Vortex but I love their products. I especially love how smooth the magnification is.
@@Dmounts I see, that makes sense. When I want to group check a new handload, I usually put on my Leupold 5-25.
I've used Vortex like what you have. For the money, they're really good. I honestly don't know why folks hate on them so much.
Thanks, Gavin & Guy 👍
Absolutely excellent. Thank you gents.
Freaking Sweet Shooting Rifle guys. Well done !
Wow impressive
My (now old) Rem 700 VSSF II groups like that with Sierra 50gr BK. Love it!
In Alaska…that ammunition comes under the UNICORN category 😂
That's a bummer. Even here in the 48, they're almost 2 bucks a round *before shipping!* that's just insane. I'd rather fiddle around with handloads and make something comparable, imo.
Ha, $4 in Australia but u can't get them
My tikka t3 varmint loves the otm tacticals i reload love them
While looking for the 77 OTM’s, I saw a very interesting study conducted on the 223 loaded with Berger 77 OTM’s. “Safety Warning for Berger 77 grain OTM: Pressure Testing Update” on Snipers Hide. It’s worth reading. Extreme pressure (22,000 over SAAMI) was documented after extensive testing (after the gentleman’s AR blew up). It’s worth reading. Obviously no problem for a well constructed bolt action, but appears to be quite dangerous in a semi auto platform.
I am curious about the chamber dimensions used, obviously those are long bullets, and in a tight .223 chamber they could be touching/ forced into the leade.. causing a pressure spike ? Not mentioned in this video (that I caught) but I'm guessing they chambered this rifle specifically for longer bullets/ more free bore.
The chamber specifics (reamer print) is published here:
ultimatereloader.com/2022/02/01/223-trainer-build-my-most-accurate-rifle-ever/
Definitely likes the longer bullets!
That was fun! :)
Yes, and we've got some great suggestions for our next duel :)
The 73gr Berger has been my go to for a year - I bought a case of that stuff because it’s consistently outstanding.
For those who can’t reload, it’s a no brainer if precision accuracy is important
I also bought a bunch but couldn't afford a case. Now I wish I had bought some of the 77gr. Can't complain with the 73gr though. I am getting less than .5 inch 5-shot groups out of my Sendero profile Shilen 22" @7.5T Wylde chamber. BTW I built the rifle based on Gavin's videos on this build. Thanks, Gavin. Your videos are top notch.
@@cacinaz8802 Yeah my son is a Capstone sponsored shooter so that helped, but curiosity has me
wanting to get more 77gr too. Right now I have 1 box of 20 that I haven’t shot yet
Thanks for the comparison between the Berger 73s and 77s. As always, well done and appreciated. I'd really like to see a reverse-engineer on the Berger factory 73s like you guys did on the 77s. Also, since those factory Bergers are likely loaded at 2.260, if you've done any "jump" testing with either of these bullets by seating them closer to the lands that would be great for those of us who are chasing "bugholes" using this same bullet and brass combo.
Great accuracy. You need to repeat that now at 200 yards and beyond
Nice, I like that idea!
I got a old sako 75 with a single set factory trigger and a 1 and 8 twist and it likes the 77gr not quite as tight of groops as your's but i have funwith it.
Glad to finally see some 5 shot groups! It's clear that you've won the barrel lottery with that .223. Mag fed factory ammo producing groups like that is a rare thing. Good smithing combined with a hummer barrel can do magic. You could probably shoot even tighter with a smaller point of aim and dialing the scope up or down a minute so you aren't blowing out your aim point.
It’s not a barrel lottery when you chamber the barrel yourself! Gavin’s meticulous efforts paid off.
@@ronmartblog He didn't drill, ream, rifle or lap the barrel himself, so yes, there's still external factors that contribute to the accuracy potential of the barrel that he had no control over. If you took ten barrels from the same manufacturer which were chambered the EXACT same way they will still have different accuracy potential. There are tolerances in each stage of the barrel creation process and they can either stack to help or hurt the overall accuracy completely independent of the chamber.
@@MMBRM Actually he did - ruclips.net/video/hrl7cevLDKk/видео.htmlsi=S9RZYkGWpGlIuwV3
Yes- I didn't rifle the barrel, but I did machine the tenon, ream the chamber, etc. :)
@@Ultimatereloader You did a great job, which I specified in the original comment. It just also takes a certain amount of luck to get a really good barrel blank on top of that to achieve top end accuracy.
Next up, who is the King of 2 mile!? And the insane rigs to be involved with the challenge....Extreme baby....
My bolt action bull barrel 22-250 is a tac driver.
In my last gas gun build, it put 3 of them into one hole.....but unfortunately I don't count 3 shot groups anymore, lol.
Very interesting and inspiring video as well as the 62gr one. I was so much into 223 reloading in the past year and tested closed to a thousand reloaded round with my LMT 20’’ AR15. Since it’s a semi-auto, I was really confused what size of group I should expecting. I’ve tried 55, 62, 69, 73, and 77gr bullet from different brand and most factory round’s group were horrible. The best I got was 77gr Berger and the group size is 0.5 moa. Next good one is 77gr SMK. Other than these 2 bullets, they’re all 1moa+. I think I’m confused by those AR15 manufacturers who all claim their AR15s are sub-moa accuracy, so I’m expecting a 20’’ barrel should be more accurate. But now I feel like I’m way too over tested. Just got 2 box Berger 73 and 77gr factory round. I’m gonna test them and get a conclusion on this topic.
Built a AR once with a super heavy straight 1 1/4 24inch 10 inch twist barrel. Even lead in the butt. Could watch the bullets just open up one hole with just about every 50 grain bullet. I have a few others, like a 204 Ruger that will do 1/2 moa consistently. It is how they are put together, quality of the barrel, and tuned.
Tie breaker! Off hand, 50 yards, 45-70
I like that idea! :)
Hello to both gavin and guy
Howdy!
Hi!
What's the twist on that barrel? //// Great video, guys. Thanks very much. I've always handloaded my own Berger bullets, but never bought any of their ammunition.
I've been around guns my entire life. I hate to admit, but I never knew they even had ammunition! I always thought they simply made bullets. Pretty cool revelation lol.
1:8! More specifics HERE: ultimatereloader.com/2022/02/01/223-trainer-build-my-most-accurate-rifle-ever/
Interesting. I was at the range yesterday, and was getting bugholes with factory S&B 140gr 6.5 Creedmoor. The results were better than Berger 140gr with Lapua brass and H4350. Blew me away.
Running 75 grn eld match home loads 223 out of 16.5 barrle ruger ranch bolt gun with awsome accuracy, but I'm using varget what I have on hand 2400fps .
Cool!
Tie breaker 5.56 barrel build and test
see a tie breaker on Guy's 30-06
Lol good idea. Let Gavin take a whack with Guy's gear this time 😄
My suggestion is to have a competition between you two with one of the rifles that your company builds after break-in and doing some load development to showcase your top-notch build capabilities. I volunteer my f open gun for this should you be interested and would be glad to provide all of the components for development and testing and competition.
Very nice rifle Gavin. Wish I could afford one. But then if I could, I’d have to request one made in .308. 😬
Oh and a tie breaker idea? Taking off stick match tips?
What is that bag rider you are using? I need one! Great shooting
Black powder, 1000 yards, 45 70
😮
New gun
Both work on different loads independently
Best two out of three 5 shot groups
Employee of the month competition
For the premium parking spot :)
Tie breaker with a 22 arc at 300 yards. You two should pick the target.
A great gun idea build would be a 22-250 with a 1 -7 twist 26 inch barrel. That shoots 88 and 90 grain pills.
I’d like to see a comparison in a semiautomatic gas gun.
My 223AI shoots .2-.3s with the 80.5, 77, and 73. However the VLD line it shoots 1in groups! Give us a video explaining how to make the VLDs shoot please.
Barrel Length and Twist??
24", 1:8- all specifics are HERE: ultimatereloader.com/2022/02/01/223-trainer-build-my-most-accurate-rifle-ever/
I think guy needs to be the first shooter behind the 223 trainer and Gavin goes second and I would blame the gun getting hot and guy not getting the best chance both times at shooting with the trainer build
berger 77gr otm - 2-2.50 per shot in Canada. crazy
Lol was just looking here, too. Almost the same even before shipping in the states. I'll stick to fiddling with my handloads. Though if they work that well in my gun, it would be worth it to have a couple boxes for reference/benchmark loads.
@@CrashRacknShoot mortgage payment a match!
@@MR619Can pretty much lol.
Golf balls at 400 yds. Or alternatively a pistol duelling tree at 400 yds.
What freebore is that chamber? I need to get a barrel for my Zeus trimmed up see if it will make some little clovers like that. Looks like a blast to shoot.
The chamber specifics are published here: ultimatereloader.com/2022/02/01/223-trainer-build-my-most-accurate-rifle-ever/
@@Ultimatereloader I should have known to check the full write up it always has all the info. My two brain cells always fighting for third place I guess.
Tie breaker E C 500 yard KYL challenge
Okay, I'll date myself here. How's a bout a 22-250 or 220 Swift at 100yd tie breaker.
What did your chrono data look like?
Take this rifle to Texas Plinking 1MOA at 1000yd challenge.
Curious what that trainer is going for monetarily. Not listed on site
Does the "BT" stand for "Boat Tail"...
Yes
What throat does the reamer you cut the chamber with have?
You can read the reamer print in this article we published about building the rifle: ultimatereloader.com/2022/02/01/223-trainer-build-my-most-accurate-rifle-ever/
@@Ultimatereloader thank you
What’s the twist in your barrel to shoot the 70+ grain bullets
It’s 1:8 !
How about a little off hand shoot
Tie breaker,10 shots free hand at 100yds
That's a great idea!
take it to texas plinking 1 moa at 1000 yds challenge.
Same course of fire, double the distance
Tiebreaker ? Long Range !
I like that!
I know, I know... If you have to ask "how much?", that means you can't afford it. That being said, I'm curious - cost to exactly replicate the .223 trainer in this video w/o the optic?
I'm... budget minded. When I print my own targets, I do like to put a bright colored round sticker, meant for putting prices on stuff like at garage sales, on the bullseye for better visibility.
Before glass, I guarantee you that you're not sniffing that rifle for under 6k.
@@CrashRacknShoot Shhhh! Don't say that out loud! They'll hear you! 😜👍
@@p.t.anderson1593 ...?
Have you shot the 77 in a AR ?
We just shot the 73gr Berger ammo in an AR while testing recoil of different brakes, story coming...
Tie Breaker Both of you Go to Eric and make the 500 Yards Black Jack Challange or build your own Know your Limits BlackJack
Now that sounds fun!
love the results, but that ammo is pricey. a bit too pricey, IMO
Tie breaker: take that 223 out and shoot at 600 yards. Try out your fclass gear doing it. How well does that equipment work with a non fclass specific rifle. Who reads the wind better. Good practice with new gear before the fclass match
Great idea! We have targets at 600y (requires hiking) and 660y (from ridgeline)
50bmg @750yds.
That's kind of easy for shooters of their skill level.
Next up 200 yds.
500 yards at clay birds
Is it repeatable?
I mean, they did 4 groups back-to-back between 2 different shooters. If that doesn't say repeatable, I'm not sure what to tell you.
@@CrashRacknShoot
4 groups isn't a comprehensive test by any means.
How about from realistic field shooting positions as opposed to the rock solid bench rest with super heavy custom rifle.
We aren't learning anything except that this one particular rifle shoots that load very well under ideal conditions.
@@user-mt5zh2pz7q well what is it you want? Every horizontal surface tested? Every 100' of elevation with every temperature and humidity level tested?
It's a new rifle. This isn't the last we'll see of it. And if I were a betting man, I'd guess you're not going to fork up for it anyway.
@@CrashRacknShoot
3 different guns being used...that would be a start. I'm confident they have at least a dozen in .223 at their disposal of all different styles, quality levels and price ranges.
That might be useful data in evaluating a factory load that I certainly can afford.
@@user-mt5zh2pz7q oh, I didn't know the line of thought was this backwards. You're trying to evaluate the ability of a round based on another rifle?! Not even talking about the rifle? That's an insane way to approach this. Buy and try. Literally the best (and really, the only) way to go, my guy. That, or handload to fit your rifle. There's not a single formula on earth that could tell you if that round will give you the same results.
You're gonna have a hard time selling those rifles
Something tells me they're doing just fine.
We have sold each one we've built in a short timeframe :)
@@Ultimatereloader I was being sarcastic. They're well crafted tack drivers, they sell like hotcakes I'm sure.
@@livingintheLight. 😂
"Ammo is cheap". In 22lr maybe.
1000 yard shoot off
Love it!
Now way, I'm first
I still don’t get it.I’ve been to matches. There are rings to score x-10-9-8 etc. You guys never hit the bullseye but you win matches on group size? Yes, measuring precision is cool but to me accuracy combines both mechanical precision of the rifle and the skill of the shooter, otherwise matches would just be for group size regardless of the ring you hit.
It’s because they care about precision, not accuracy.
Buddy, you find a good grouping load and *THEN* you zero the rifle to it. This is just showing results. From there, you apply those results and touch the x.
@@CrashRacknShoot I know what the sequence it is buddy. That’s exactly my point. I’d like to see the step of zeroing done too. If they wanted a complete shooting contest, put the bullets in the rings and count the score. 😀
@@garyomalley4521 what could possibly make the difference between grouping zeroed vs not zeroed? A group aimed at one point will be the same as it hits the x as it hits 3 inches high and right.
This is proof you can't please everyone. I guarantee if they shot it before and zeroed it, people would cry wolf about them setting up the whole thing, or some other equally absurd idea.
@@CrashRacknShoot okay, have a great day! 👌🙏❤️❤️🙏
loading my own 70+ gr for the price of milsurp 55 is a mighty convincing argument in favor of this hobby