The TRUTH of Kareem & the Lakers before Magic Johnson arrived
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- Опубликовано: 5 янв 2024
- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's career spans over 20 years, and very few players were better than Kareem. His GOAT case is as impeccable as anyone's. But there is a period in his career that needs to be brought to light. The author of "The All-Time Greatest NBA Book" series discusses Kareem's career between 1976 and 1979 before Magic Johnson was drafted. Should he be penalized for those seasons, or does he deserve a pass?
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Lakers gutted the team to obtain Kareem via trade with Milwaukee . Obviously, it was going to take time to build back up through trades and the draft (Magic). Without KAJ, no championships. It was not like he came to lakers as a free agent (Shaquille O’Neal), and the nucleus of the team was already in place. Lakers traded 25-year-old center Elmore Smith and rookie guard Brian Winters, the Lakers also traded the second overall and eighth overall picks in the 1975 NBA Draft. Los Angeles didn’t want to give up Winters and the picks, but that’s what it would take. So, of course, Kareem wasn’t going to win championships when he first came to the Lakers.
I sincerely appreciate an entirely fair appraisal of that portion of Kareem's career. Thank you.
I was a fan of the Lakers for decades, and remain a Jabbar fan to this day. I consider him to be the second best center of all time, behind only Wilt Chamberlain, so nothing I say is meant to be a knock on him.
You zeroed in on what I consider to have been the biggest weakness on that Lakers team: lack of even a decent, much less outstanding, power forward. You mentioned all the excellent players that the Lakers added in those years- Lou Hudson, Jamaal Wilkes, Adrian Dantley and Norm Nixon. None of them are over 6'6", and none were known for their rebounding or defense. For several of those years, the Lakers power forward was Don Ford, who has been described (not inaccurately) as "a power forward with no power". Kareem was supposed to carry the load on both ends of the court, especially in terms of scoring, rebounding and defense. That's asking an awful lot of anybody- even if you happen to be Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.
Wilt Chamberlain made a rather harsh, but, I think, fair, comment when he said that Kareem didn't play hard enough, although I'd say it was more a matter of Kareem >looking< like he wasn't playing hard enough. Kareem made everything he did look effortless. The Sky Hook is the most beautiful shot in league history, almost athletic poetry. Kareem wasn't a very physical player (though Kent Benson might disagree), relying on athleticism rather than brute strength, and I think that made his game look like he was expending less effort than he really was. I've got to think that, if you put a decent power forward on those teams that lost to the Supersonics, the Lakers win those series and go on to win a title or possibly 2. I don't think they beat the Trailblazers- that was, for one year, a magical team.
"I bust my buns every night. You tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier down the court for 48 minutes." Roger Murdock, a co-pilot
I lived in southern California and followed the Lakers during this time. The sense was that Kareem was no longer enjoying basketball and was considering retirement. Magic Johnson is my GOAT. One of my reasons is the role he played in reawakening Kareem's love of basketball.
Needing help is 1 thing
Letting that help becoming the face and the leader of your team is another.
That was the golden opportunity for Kareem to take over the league before the "golden era" started in the 80s. It just seems suspicious that he didn't do anything!
Educate yourself. The Lakers literally traded half of their team to get him in the time before free agency. It took years to rebuild the team.
@@PoliticusRex632 Goodrich going to New Orleans
@@PoliticusRex632 They had some good players like a young Adrien Dantley they drafted Cooper in 78, they had Charlie Scott at one point, Norm Nixon, Wilkes
@@jOKIC1-fk5wh Cooper didn't get drafted in 1978 and dantley was a ball stopper still young got traded to Utah same thing with Nixon and wiikes. Portland and seattle were better teams
No title between `71 and `80 is difficult. The Bucks were close a couple of times, but the Lakers were left with young inexperienced players after the Wilt/West team aged out. Although the loss of Gail Goodrich led to the first overall pick in the 1979 draft.
Keep in mind, his first 6 or 7 years, some of the best players were in the ABA, so less talent to compete against for MVPs, stats, titles, etc. Magic extended Kareems career, and got him rings. Kareem was great, but certainly not the GOAT.
It's important to look at the scores of the Sonics series in 1979. So, their game 2 win came in overtime... but so did their game 3 loss. And then their game 4 loss was settled in regulation... and they only lost by 2 points. So, the Lakers were one Sonics regulation-time basket in game 2 away from being swept... but on the other hand, they were three regulation-time baskets away from being up 3-1 in the series (one bucket in game 3 and two buckets in game 4). Soooo... that series was crazy-close. A small alteration in that series could actually mean that the Lakers make it to the finals that year -- one year before Magic. That being said, by the mid-1980's the Lakers were merely average without Magic, because they had no defense.
Regarding Kareem's effort... I think it's important to remember that the 60's and 70's were totally decimating for big men in those awful shoes on those awful courts. It was even bad for smaller players who had an above-the-rim game. For instance, Dr. J said he was going to back off after the '77 finals loss, because he wanted to extend his career and make money. But why? Why back off? Well, he was hopefull that by dialing his jumping back, he could make it to 32 or 33 years old. Now, he made it longer than that, but could you imagine a player in today's game speaking that way? Shoe technology improved vastly even into the 1990's. MJ tried wearing his Air Jordan 1's from the 80's one game later in his career and was in tons of pain. Basically, if they had the shoes and courts of the 1990's or later back in the 70's, then Dr. J could have gone all out annnnnd had a long career with money. This puts Dr. J's 1978 and 1979 seasons in context. It might also say something about Kareem and his "lack of effort." NBA games were taped delayed, and in the mid-to-late 70's, the game was at its fastest pace ever. Seriously. Click on this link and the click "pace" (over to the right): www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html
Can you imagine being 7'2" (7'3" in shoes) and playing in the fastest era ever on bad courts in bad shoes with really strict charging calls? So, I don't think any "lack of effort" nor "lack of team success" in that time should count against him at all.
The only thing that counts against him is the 80's, actually, because it could be argued that Magic was better...... but man..... the fact that Kareem even made it to the 1980's -- let alone played at the high level that he did -- is unbelievable. In fact, the idea that Kareem was the top scorer on a fast team that wasn't slowing down for him enough -- when he was very old -- well... that might be the most spectacular achievement in NBA history.
Also, he is still number one in field goals made in NBA history. LeBron is number 1 due to threes, and LeBron missed a lot of threes.
Maybe Kareem *is* the GOAT!!!!
Nice shorts. The NBA should go back to those.
great video
A small correction: before the arrival of Magic Johnson and the Showtime Lakers, the greatest big man of all time played for the Lakers for five seasons [1969-73], reached the finals in four of the five years, and won one championship.
K, 1975-76: 27.7, 16.9, 5.0, 4.1
K, 1976-77: 26.2, 13.3, 3.9, 3.2
K, 1978-79: 23.8, 12.8, 5.4, 4.0
W, 1963-64: 36.9, 22.3, 5.0, ?
W, 1965-66: 33.5, 24.6, 5.2, ?
W, 1966-67: 24.1, 24.2, 7.8, ?
W, 1967-68: 24.3, 23.8, 8.6, ?
W, 1969-70: 27.3, 18.4, 4.1, ?
W, Career: 30.1, 22.9, 4.4, ?
WIlt's blocks were not recorded officially. Using unofficial stats recorded by Harvey Pollack, Wilt probably had 7-10 blocks/gm for most of his career. He certainly had over 5 blocks/gm in his MVP seasons with the Sixers. And while his points in the second and third seasons are 3-4 points below Kareem's, he had about 7 more rebounds and 3 more assists, which easily makes up for 4 points.
Wilt was so good we have to pretend the rest of the league wasn’t very good back then despite all the HoFers he put to shame.
We can’t say that about anyone else who’s played since. Though Kareem’s hook shot is something else.
@@chamuuemura5314 Very true. Adding to what you said, the ways we dismiss Wilt:
* "He played against plumbers and firemen."
* "Since the merger."
* Saying "all-time" or "in NBA history" when discussing blocks.
With the blocks, some might want to dismiss them by saying it is a "What if?", but it is only saying, "If blocks had been officially recorded." There is no question that the blocks occurred.
The respect shows up when discussing offensive stats with the phrases, "Since Wilt" or "Not named Wilt". The current resurgence of the big men, including the last five years of MVPs, shows that. Giannis's athleticism, Embiid's dominance, and Joker's playmaking. Wilt pulled all of that together over his career.
Have a look at Wilt's per 36 minutes playoff stats to put his performance in perspective.
@@billmorrison9068 His per-36 minutes stats are irrelevant, because he played almost 48 minutes.
Kareem dealt with a lot both on and off the court, to say the least. Lots of racism, media hate (not just for his name and and religion change), but he was still individually dominant and his rivalry with Wilt is of legend. Despite ratings being low, the 70s were a very competitive era and had a lot of exciting basketball.
Also, people are sleeping on John Havlicek. He's got 8 chips, an NCAA Championship, and in the NBA he averaged 20.8 ppg, 6.3 rpg, and 4.8 apg. The Celtics are the only team that won twice in the 70s. Otherwise a different team won every other year. No dynasties. 70s were actually fairly balanced, in that regard.
The Celtics ruled the 60s, but the 70s were a different story.
The 80s are also a totally different story, and it's hard to not like Magic and have good chemistry with him. Even his opponents like him.
P.S. Forgot to add that I like how your video supported and defended Kareem. Well done!
Knicks won twice, 70 and 73. Since a majority of the season is played after January, and the finals are played in June.
@5:40 That joke was in the movie Airplane with Kareem as the Roger and the boy.
The Lakers gave up an average starting center and some bench players for Kareem, and were only 10 games better. Milwaukee had exactly the same record before and after Kareem, and this was him at his peak. Kareem had great stats, but pre-magic those Laker teams lacked synergy and were predictable, and a good coach and team could beat them(not a dynasty). Without Magic he would have never won another title. It was a watered down league pre-merger and he needed Magic more than the other way around. Once the 80's rolled around and there was the ABA merger, he was not even the best center anymore. Moses Malone outworked him twice in the playoffs despite him having great teams. Extreme stats are overrated, and they are often at the expense of team success. Statisticians can go on and on about Russell Westbrook's triple double seasons and advanced stats, but it was obvious he couldn't win a championship as the best player. If Kareem couldn't win a title in late 70s despite having all-stars and a hall of fame on his team. He wan't going to win a title with Moses, DR. J, Bird. and Magic in the league, and he was no longer at his peak. Unless one of these guys was on his team.
You forget...Kareem missed 16 games due to a scratched cornea at the beginning of the 1974-75 season. Bucks were 3-13 in those 16 games
Wow, you made it sound like lakers gave nothing up for Kareem. Like he should have stepped in and instantly started winning championships. The Lakers traded their future to acquire Jabbar. It wasn’t just an average Center and a few bench players. Lakers also traded rookie starring guard Brian Winters (nice career with Bucks), the Lakers also traded the second overall and eighth overall picks in the 1975 NBA Draft. With the loss of those picks, it was going to take time to build around KAJ. Now, if they would’ve signed him as a free agent, and the supporting cast and draft picks remained in place (Shaquille O’Neal), that would’ve been a different story.
I agree with your post.
@@kendraadman7229 Brian Winters? I don't see how he would have made a difference. The Lakers had a lot of good guards in that era: Gail Goodrich, Norm Nixon, Lou Hudson, Michael Cooper. 13 all star appearances between them, and one of the best defenders of all time. It would have been a struggle to find minutes for him if he stayed with the Lakers, and I doubt Jerry West ever gave him a second thought, after he was traded. Out of players and picks the Lakers traded for KAJ, not one of them ever made an all-star game. By the time of 1981-1982 two of the players were already out of the league, and the other 2 started 17 games combined.
thank you
Say, it tooks to the MJ's Bulls 7 seasons to win a title........the competition in the Eastern Conference was tough and........dynasties need to be built.......
I don't believe there is any question Kareem was the best player of the 70s. I also don't believe he lifted teammates like his future teammate Magic or Larry Bird. Or Bill Russell or Bill Walton.
I know it's coming, too!
If the Lakers won 47 without magic, there was a minor improvement when Magic arrived. But the Celts went from 29 wins to 61 when Bird arrived. But nothing is pure, there are many other factors including injuries in preceding seasons. Walton did say that Kareem was the toughest player he had to guard.
Celtics made the playoffs in 1977 but they got older with John Havlicek and Cowens , Jo Jo White injuries. 1978 they won 78 games. They still had a healthy team outside of some injuries but still were a bad team. The only addictions Boston made in the 1979-80 season was adding Larry Bird and 31 yr old Tiny Archibald
Thanks for this video, which for me proves how great Kareem was before Magic arrived. This is a case where it is clear that you have to have a great team to win = all 5 players need to play well and hard to win at this level. The narrative that Magic somehow made Kareem great is an insult to Kareem's skills. FYI, Kareem was voted the 1980 FMVP after Magic's great game 6 but because Kareem was not present the voters were asked to change their votes so Magic would win the award. See the book titled "Kareem" pages 140-141 to understand what really happened. Magic is more popular than Kareem so Magic is not put under the microscope as much in my opinion. Magic had plenty of bad games = all players do if you want to go that route. Thanks for your work to show Kareem's statistical output during these years!
He's the greatest center of All time no Doubt
4:14 Crazy Kareem trained in Jeet Kune Do with Bruce Lee in Bruce's back yard. You can bet thats an educated vertical fisted punch right to the jaw.
No titles before Magic?? What about '71 Bucks?? Can't really say "only player to average 3 blocks" when blocks were not recorded as stats until 1973. Russell, Wilt, Nate Thurmond certainly had higher average blocks.
Stop with the GOAT talk. Check the record book - Wilt is GOAT.
I don’t think he ever said that... it was zero titles with LA before Magic
Even with his Bucks title how long was it before he made another finals? 8 or 9 years right 4 of those years he played with wilt and again no titles or even sniffed a finals Then Magic comes along they make 8 finals in 10 years winning 5 so Kareem had a year where he took a Bucks team to win it all and never again had that effect on his teams the rest of his career Kareem let politics get in the way of what should have been a storied career and the cheap shots he retaliated with he cared about himself and only himself
Wilt and Kareem were never on the same team. That would have been something to see.@@chrisortiz9343
@@chrisortiz9343lol what are u talking about ? Wilt retired in 1973 and lakers were pretty much above average trading their team to get him and Kareem was taking those teams to the playoffs and a WCF appearance losing to a great Portland team that won the title. Lakers also lost Kermit Washington in 1978
No one person wins a title. Ownership is to blame. Do they spend the money and assemble a championship caliber team on paper, or not?
Why Magic didn't have the same problem as Kareem did with the team?
When Magic arrived to the Lakers, they got to the finals and win the championship.
What Magic did in his rookie year Kareem failed to do in his prime.
So no, sorry, Kareem is not the GOAT discussion. Magic is.
Magic had better pieces in 1980 and a player like Kareem on his team, they also had Nixon, Wilkes, cooper and Haywood also different coaching. Magic won the award finals MVP because of Kareem injury
By the way how many championships did Magic win without Kareem.?? I'm waiting
@@marckellough529 using that argument is also flawed cuz magic took over as the best player when Kareem was getting older in the mid to late 1980s also made the finals in 1991 but worthy and Scott were injured.
@@tj5180 You're talking about what coulda happened. The fact of the matter is this he never won a ring without Kareem.Kareem won a ring without him. What coulda happened is a never ending argument
Kareem played Portland with this pathetic lineup: Don Ford,a washed up Cazzie Russell, Earl Tatum, and Don Chaney.His excellent power forward was out because of suspension. I bet you never even heard of Ford and Tatum. Nobody could shoot or rebound so Portland triple teamed Kareem and he still averaged 30 pts and 16rebs and shot over 60% from the field. Even with this pathetic team nobody made excuses for Kareem. So don't tell me nothing about Worthy and Scott being injured he still never won without Kareem
Should he get a pass? A pass for what?
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar would only have one championship is Magic Johnson didn't come to the Lakers
Let him get a pass he won two mvp
He won a title with the Bucks
He wasn't talking about the Bucks... only the Lakers. He won 0 titles with LA before Magic. lol
@@tommytorres7456 not his fault
Kareem gets underrated and disrespected
Wilt Chamberlain is the greatest center of all time regardless of how many championships he won. He was by far the most dominant center ever. You forget they didn't record blocks or steals until Wilt retired.
Wilt would've dominated today.
@@elwin38 no doubt
Yeah being MVP wasn't good enough. Lol....maybe only Jabbar or Wilt could be MVP & still get criticism for not doing enough. Let's stop some of this nonsense. It's stupid.
Please take this video down. Non sense
When kareem misses the playoffs with an ass team, it takes him out of the GOAT debate. When kobe misses with a, to be honest, not that bad a team, it puts him in the GOAT debate. I don't understand.
Wilt is the goat , then Kareem took over and was the most dominant for most of his career. Originally Miken was the goat. Shaq was great in his time also. Bill R, MJ, and Kobe along with Dr. J, Magic and Bird are all top ten. Tim Duncan honorable mention.
He had no championship level talent!!!!
Three NCAA Titles and MVPs, six NBA Titles and multiple MVPs= You're an idiot.
Great player but he's a weakling for that punch.
He was trained by Bruce Lee...surprised his hands aren't registered as lethal weapons
What needs to be shown is that Kent Benson threw a deliberate elbow directly into Kareem's ribcage and THAT is what prompted Kareem to lose his temper and punch back! Benson was a dirty player.
@mrho4speed OK. But he did it when he wasn't looking and he waited to do it. Handle it when it happens. Regardless, I think he was weak for that.