Tommy John and Frank Jobe should both get voted into the Baseball Hall of Fame! John for his tremendous career, and Jobe for his groundbreaking innovations that changed Baseball history.
Tommy John is a name synonymous with baseball, but not for the reasons that justify a place in the Hall of Fame. Despite his impressive longevity-spanning 26 seasons in Major League Baseball-his career achievements fall short of what should be required for baseball’s highest honor. His 288 wins, while notable, are more a testament to endurance than dominance. In his prime, John was never considered one of the premier pitchers of his era, failing to win a Cy Young Award or lead the league in any major pitching category. Longevity alone does not equal greatness. The real reason John is a household name is due to the revolutionary surgery that bears his name, not his performance on the field. Tommy John surgery, performed on his elbow in 1974, allowed him to extend his career, and its success has benefited countless pitchers since. While the surgery's impact on the sport is undeniable, it is a medical milestone, not an athletic one. The Hall of Fame should celebrate excellence, not longevity or medical breakthroughs. While John’s perseverance and role in baseball history are commendable, they do not meet the high standards required for enshrinement. The Hall should remain a sanctuary for the sport’s true elites, not those whose greatest contribution came from a scalpel, not a fastball. If anyone belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame, it's surgeon Frank Jobe.
Tommy John is a name synonymous with baseball, but not for the reasons that justify a place in the Hall of Fame. Despite his impressive longevity-spanning 26 seasons in Major League Baseball-his career achievements fall short of what should be required for baseball’s highest honor. His 288 wins, while notable, are more a testament to endurance than dominance. In his prime, John was never considered one of the premier pitchers of his era, failing to win a Cy Young Award or lead the league in any major pitching category. Longevity alone does not equal greatness. The real reason John is a household name is due to the revolutionary surgery that bears his name, not his performance on the field. Tommy John surgery, performed on his elbow in 1974, allowed him to extend his career, and its success has benefited countless pitchers since. While the surgery's impact on the sport is undeniable, it is a medical milestone, not an athletic one. The Hall of Fame should celebrate excellence, not longevity or medical breakthroughs. While John’s perseverance and role in baseball history are commendable, they do not meet the high standards required for enshrinement. The Hall should remain a sanctuary for the sport’s true elites, not those whose greatest contribution came from a scalpel, not a fastball. If anyone belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame, it's surgeon Frank Jobe.
Really any pitch with very spin rate is going to shred your UCL. It could be a 98mph fastball with 2000+ rpm of spin or a nasty 92mph slider with 2,500rpm of spin. The velocity does hurt the arm because human bodies were never supposed to repeatedly throw a projectile that fast with that much spin. Our bodies in their current form can’t handle that load, torque, and power.
For decades I have wondered why Tommy John isn’t in the HOF. I knew he had 288 Career wins so over 100 more than Sandy Koufax. Jim Kaat finally got in thankfully because of lobbying from Rod Carew and Bert Blyleven. Luis Tiant I think had around 250 and David “Abs of Steel “Wells 239 ? All three have more than many pitchers in the HOF. Padres pitcher Brent Strom was the second player to have the surgery but it didn’t work as well.
I've heard of parents who have asked my hospitals surgeons to preemptively do TJ surgery on their kid's arm because the think they'll throw harder, and give them a better shot at a scholarship/path to the majors. just despicable.
but wouldn't that ruin their arms, make it weaker? i'm a new baseball fan and so far i'm hearing ppl said that ohtani would be weaker when he got his first TJ, and that he's finished as a pitcher now that he's getting his 2nd? so i'm assuming that the replacement wouldn't be as better than the natural ucl?
If Dr. Frank Jobe had invented this surgery 10 years earlier, it might be called the Sandy Koufax surgery today. And we get to see in 10 more years just how great Sandy Koufax can be
This video is misleading. The success of Tommy John is amazing medical feat. But this video glorifies the injury. Younger athletes are getting this surgery and depending on the surgeon the recover rate is less than 25%. We only think the UCL injury is successful because major leaguers with the best surgeons are performing the operation. Younger athletes chasing velo with bad mechanics are getting hurt. ESPN with all its resources should have done a special focusing on prevention and how not to get injured.
Reverse causality? If Tommy John surgery wasn't a thing, pitching would be a lot different today. Because Tommy John surgery is possible, pitchers can pitch in the way that they currently do knowing they can get Tommy John surgery. Solution? Abolish Tommy John surgery as a form of "performance enhancement." Make pitching return to something resembling "pitching" from the not too distant past. Render present cyborg velo and spin rate chasing a thing of the forgettable past.
Yeah you can’t go back to 86 mph fastballs after people have been watching 96, 99, even 103 from Paul Skenes the other day. At the end of the day the people making the decision care about money the most. The surgery and the velocities are here to stay and you can bet they’re all still trying to get faster. Part of why it’s such a young man’s game and it’s harder now to keep pitching at the top level for a long time
Not really. There have been guys who needed the surgery and are not "flame" throwers. There have been guys throwing gas forever and their arms are just fine.
I cant believe that mlb and players dont understand how to avoid injuries and why theyre on the rise. Is for one thing and very simple. They do not train for withstanding more throws they only train for increasing velocity. Tell me which pitcher in the offseason goes all the way to 100-150 pitch bullpens? Nobody absolutely nobody. The only way to be prepared to throw 100 throws in the game is that in the offseason you slowly progress all the way to 100-150 throws. You might call me crazy to encourage offseason bullpens of 100-150 throws but its even crazier to think that 30 pitch bullpens will prepare you to throw 100 in the game. That is foolish nonsense. The arm doesnt know how many throws is doing it only knows stress. If youve only throwing 30 pitch bullpens and then increase it all of the sudden to 100 youre increasing more than double of what your body can handle. Now if you slowly progress in the offseason to 150 throws your body and arm are going to get use to that stress. But pitchers from today dont give their body the opportunity to get use to the stress. They think that fancy exercises or better mechanics will do it. Or they think that there is something else that will do the magic. It doesnt exist. The only thing you can do to prepare your body to throw 100 pitches in the game and remain healthy is that you slowly progress to those numbers of throws in the offseason. Period nothing else will do the job but that. Sometimes you only need logic and common sense to solve a problem. Its ironic that sometimes common sense is the least sense the human uses.
@@TiagoGomez-hb9te noooo its not on the regular season didnt you read what i just posted? It takes years of slowly building up the number of throws you can handle till you get to 100-150. Its not that easy as to just slowly build it up thru the season. Once your body can handle all those throws after years of slowly building up you are ready to throw as hard as you can from the beggining of the season and you wont get injured never again.
Dude it’s not as cut and dry as you make it sound lmao you have no idea what their offseason bullpens are. Every organization has a plethora of training personnel throughout each level. Do you really think if it was as simple as you seem to think it is, that they would be advising the pitchers to do so? Come on 😂
@@travisp5747 remember when galileo told everybody that earth was round and nobody believe him? Well is very similar here. Just think logically. If you need to throw 100 pitches in the game then that means that you have to train a certain period of time to slowly progress until you get to 100 throws and not get sore next day. No pitchers does that. Whenever you see someone do that tell me im wrong. Only until then. I cant believe how ignorant and lack of common scence poeple can be.
Imagine what it’s like to be 15 when you feel that pop and you’re wildly confused. In a ton of pain but trying to prove yourself at a big school and finishing the inning then losing the next year and a half worth of baseball. It destroyed me and my career.
Its best to get the surgery once a tear, and pain, is detected. But understand that not every pitcher comes back after the surgery. This has been the issue with some of the younger guys getting the surgery; the ones not major leaguers.
@@prettyboynewton5957 this is probably because their ligament was under stress for a while and they didn't know it tore until they feel the pain or they can't throw at top speed.
Tommy John and Frank Jobe should both get voted into the Baseball Hall of Fame! John for his tremendous career, and Jobe for his groundbreaking innovations that changed Baseball history.
Amen Amen Amen!!!
Tommy John is a name synonymous with baseball, but not for the reasons that justify a place in the Hall of Fame. Despite his impressive longevity-spanning 26 seasons in Major League Baseball-his career achievements fall short of what should be required for baseball’s highest honor. His 288 wins, while notable, are more a testament to endurance than dominance. In his prime, John was never considered one of the premier pitchers of his era, failing to win a Cy Young Award or lead the league in any major pitching category. Longevity alone does not equal greatness.
The real reason John is a household name is due to the revolutionary surgery that bears his name, not his performance on the field. Tommy John surgery, performed on his elbow in 1974, allowed him to extend his career, and its success has benefited countless pitchers since. While the surgery's impact on the sport is undeniable, it is a medical milestone, not an athletic one.
The Hall of Fame should celebrate excellence, not longevity or medical breakthroughs. While John’s perseverance and role in baseball history are commendable, they do not meet the high standards required for enshrinement. The Hall should remain a sanctuary for the sport’s true elites, not those whose greatest contribution came from a scalpel, not a fastball. If anyone belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame, it's surgeon Frank Jobe.
How TF is TJ not in the HOF? 288 wins and 26 seasons pitched in the majors. That’s unheard of, now a days
If not for the pitching resume & the surgery being ubiquitous with his name, then at least for the most popular brand of underwear named after him. 😊
Favoritism with writers, baseball HOF is most corrupt. Half of the guys in were their buddies and half do not belong.
Tommy John is a name synonymous with baseball, but not for the reasons that justify a place in the Hall of Fame. Despite his impressive longevity-spanning 26 seasons in Major League Baseball-his career achievements fall short of what should be required for baseball’s highest honor. His 288 wins, while notable, are more a testament to endurance than dominance. In his prime, John was never considered one of the premier pitchers of his era, failing to win a Cy Young Award or lead the league in any major pitching category. Longevity alone does not equal greatness.
The real reason John is a household name is due to the revolutionary surgery that bears his name, not his performance on the field. Tommy John surgery, performed on his elbow in 1974, allowed him to extend his career, and its success has benefited countless pitchers since. While the surgery's impact on the sport is undeniable, it is a medical milestone, not an athletic one.
The Hall of Fame should celebrate excellence, not longevity or medical breakthroughs. While John’s perseverance and role in baseball history are commendable, they do not meet the high standards required for enshrinement. The Hall should remain a sanctuary for the sport’s true elites, not those whose greatest contribution came from a scalpel, not a fastball. If anyone belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame, it's surgeon Frank Jobe.
You can blame the avg fastball increase. From the 70s to the 2000s, the fastball velocity was between 88-91 mph. Today, it’s 95+ mph.
Dr. Keith Meister actually says the nasty breaking pitches being designed for guys in pitching labs is way worse on the elbow.
@@Economics70ya like the splitter. Just looking at the grip of that makes my hand and arm hurt
I thought they said throwing sliders curveballs off-speed junk type pictures that will tear up your elbow ?
@@Economics70yeah that's what I thought
Really any pitch with very spin rate is going to shred your UCL. It could be a 98mph fastball with 2000+ rpm of spin or a nasty 92mph slider with 2,500rpm of spin. The velocity does hurt the arm because human bodies were never supposed to repeatedly throw a projectile that fast with that much spin. Our bodies in their current form can’t handle that load, torque, and power.
Crazy visual
For decades I have wondered why Tommy John isn’t in the HOF. I knew he had 288 Career wins so over 100 more than Sandy Koufax. Jim Kaat finally got in thankfully because of lobbying from Rod Carew and Bert Blyleven. Luis Tiant I think had around 250 and David “Abs of Steel “Wells 239 ? All three have more than many pitchers in the HOF. Padres pitcher Brent Strom was the second player to have the surgery but it didn’t work as well.
50 years ago July 17 1974.
I've heard of parents who have asked my hospitals surgeons to preemptively do TJ surgery on their kid's arm because the think they'll throw harder, and give them a better shot at a scholarship/path to the majors. just despicable.
That's sick, therefore it will be normal in a few years.
but wouldn't that ruin their arms, make it weaker? i'm a new baseball fan and so far i'm hearing ppl said that ohtani would be weaker when he got his first TJ, and that he's finished as a pitcher now that he's getting his 2nd?
so i'm assuming that the replacement wouldn't be as better than the natural ucl?
An truly inspirational story trails and tribulations will occur keep pushing stay positive🤎🙏🏾
If Dr. Frank Jobe had invented this surgery 10 years earlier, it might be called the Sandy Koufax surgery today. And we get to see in 10 more years just how great Sandy Koufax can be
Matt Brash??? He is a patient and one of the Mariners best relievers
That’s Dr Christopher Jobe not Frank at 1:12
Frank is dead now.
nobody has been a billion dollar arm until shoei
And just like all the other pitchers in this story: all had TH
This video is misleading. The success of Tommy John is amazing medical feat. But this video glorifies the injury. Younger athletes are getting this surgery and depending on the surgeon the recover rate is less than 25%. We only think the UCL injury is successful because major leaguers with the best surgeons are performing the operation. Younger athletes chasing velo with bad mechanics are getting hurt. ESPN with all its resources should have done a special focusing on prevention and how not to get injured.
It's called propaganda...
Reverse causality? If Tommy John surgery wasn't a thing, pitching would be a lot different today. Because Tommy John surgery is possible, pitchers can pitch in the way that they currently do knowing they can get Tommy John surgery. Solution? Abolish Tommy John surgery as a form of "performance enhancement." Make pitching return to something resembling "pitching" from the not too distant past. Render present cyborg velo and spin rate chasing a thing of the forgettable past.
I personally hear ya but not gonna happen. More $ is involved now. Think Shotei.
Yeah you can’t go back to 86 mph fastballs after people have been watching 96, 99, even 103 from Paul Skenes the other day. At the end of the day the people making the decision care about money the most. The surgery and the velocities are here to stay and you can bet they’re all still trying to get faster. Part of why it’s such a young man’s game and it’s harder now to keep pitching at the top level for a long time
@@holidayarmadillo8653 Well then, baseball's dead at this point if pitching's going to be far more dominant than hitting...
would've liked to actually learn about the surgery.
This is stupid question ,Would putting instituting a max innings pitched help this at all?
Are there rules like that in little leagues?
Not really. There have been guys who needed the surgery and are not "flame" throwers. There have been guys throwing gas forever and their arms are just fine.
Free Pete 🌹
4:55 that was so far off the plate!
Bobby Bo knew it too
Is this John leiberman narrating?
It’s Jeremy Schaap
I wish they figured out a Tommy John surgery for your shoulder just saying
What would it be called
The shoulder is way more complicated than the elbow
Just create a pitching machine for the mlb :)
Skenes won’t last. Degrees of external rotation per second.
who else scanned the QR codes?
Best MLB player in history- Babe Ruth
Worst MLB player in history- Bryan hoeing
The world: Why is the UCL tear epidemic more prevalent now than ever?
ESPN: Lets normalize Tommy John surgery.
Now cure the common cold …..
First to comment
Just get the surgery before the injury
TO REFER TO TOMMY JOHN AS A “TEST DUMMY” WAS EXTREMELY CLASSLESS ! SMH
How about "crash test dummy"
@@therealbs2000 Nobody is talking about the creature that birth you.
@og3081 oof that was a dud...give it another try
I cant believe that mlb and players dont understand how to avoid injuries and why theyre on the rise. Is for one thing and very simple. They do not train for withstanding more throws they only train for increasing velocity. Tell me which pitcher in the offseason goes all the way to 100-150 pitch bullpens? Nobody absolutely nobody. The only way to be prepared to throw 100 throws in the game is that in the offseason you slowly progress all the way to 100-150 throws. You might call me crazy to encourage offseason bullpens of 100-150 throws but its even crazier to think that 30 pitch bullpens will prepare you to throw 100 in the game. That is foolish nonsense. The arm doesnt know how many throws is doing it only knows stress. If youve only throwing 30 pitch bullpens and then increase it all of the sudden to 100 youre increasing more than double of what your body can handle. Now if you slowly progress in the offseason to 150 throws your body and arm are going to get use to that stress. But pitchers from today dont give their body the opportunity to get use to the stress. They think that fancy exercises or better mechanics will do it. Or they think that there is something else that will do the magic. It doesnt exist. The only thing you can do to prepare your body to throw 100 pitches in the game and remain healthy is that you slowly progress to those numbers of throws in the offseason. Period nothing else will do the job but that. Sometimes you only need logic and common sense to solve a problem. Its ironic that sometimes common sense is the least sense the human uses.
Pitchers nowadays also aren't taught to slowly build up their pitching velocity throughout the regular season...
@@TiagoGomez-hb9te noooo its not on the regular season didnt you read what i just posted? It takes years of slowly building up the number of throws you can handle till you get to 100-150. Its not that easy as to just slowly build it up thru the season. Once your body can handle all those throws after years of slowly building up you are ready to throw as hard as you can from the beggining of the season and you wont get injured never again.
@@baseball-xt3uj I've read your first comment, but my last comment is also important for competitive pitching as well as long standing pitching...
Dude it’s not as cut and dry as you make it sound lmao you have no idea what their offseason bullpens are. Every organization has a plethora of training personnel throughout each level. Do you really think if it was as simple as you seem to think it is, that they would be advising the pitchers to do so? Come on 😂
@@travisp5747 remember when galileo told everybody that earth was round and nobody believe him? Well is very similar here. Just think logically. If you need to throw 100 pitches in the game then that means that you have to train a certain period of time to slowly progress until you get to 100 throws and not get sore next day. No pitchers does that. Whenever you see someone do that tell me im wrong. Only until then. I cant believe how ignorant and lack of common scence poeple can be.
Imagine what it’s like to be 15 when you feel that pop and you’re wildly confused. In a ton of pain but trying to prove yourself at a big school and finishing the inning then losing the next year and a half worth of baseball. It destroyed me and my career.
So why not just get the surgery when you’re young?
Huh what you on?
@@maomao180the players in the video are saying they felt better after the surgery than before they got it
Its best to get the surgery once a tear, and pain, is detected. But understand that not every pitcher comes back after the surgery. This has been the issue with some of the younger guys getting the surgery; the ones not major leaguers.
@@prettyboynewton5957 this is probably because their ligament was under stress for a while and they didn't know it tore until they feel the pain or they can't throw at top speed.
Did you guys try to get someone who sounds like jomboy???? Pffffffffttttt . They are so terrified on decentralization
What are you talking about? The person narrating this piece has narrated other ESPN segments for years.
It's Jeremy Schapp.
Tf are you on about bro? Quit glazing. This dudes been a staple for these ESPN spotlights since Jomboy was a child lmao