Alpharius is the biggest mental health crisis among the primarchs he's pure schizophrenic. "Trust me I have an identical twin we pretend to be each other" yeah okay Mr Rius take your meds
"nooooo space Marines of the death-watch why are you killing us we're trying to enact the ritual to bring ynead to reality now we shall all surely perish"-eldar " lol" said the space marine "lmao "
@@livefromtheblacklibraryif you make a video on Conrad you might be interested in a theory I’ve heard that he had split personality’s which is why half the time he’s bawling crying over what he does in the other half
The lion is just not very sociable Other than that he's fine In the lion son of the forest book He very blatantly becomes quite social especially as he forms his own little empire with like 20 marines
To me Lorgar has always been one of the most real and human primarchs and characters in general in the setting. I've never thought about him as an individual with BPD but the fact that Aaron Dembski-Bowden came out some years ago saying he has BPD makes a lot of sense now.
Tbf the emperor didnt give lorgar (someone who was insanely blatantly religious) an outlet for his belief. If the emperor described the imperial truth as a religion where humanity reign as gods over the galaxy I could see lorgar fully going into it
@@some_shitposting_idiot3023 The Last priest on earth really got to Big E. Lorgar was the proof of what the Priest told him would happen. That people would see Big E as god, and people to worship him. Big E couldn't have it. Would NOT have it. So he really went down hard on Lorgar.
(Warning, grammar on point. My knowledge of English is very low) tbf, I kinda understand Lorgar about ignoring Emperor's "I am not a God" words. It maybe sounds a little bit weird but Lorgar kinda have rational-religious mental set. His book,Lectitio Divinitatus, was written with use of rational points(for example, "if a man gathers ten thousand suns in his hands... If a man seeds a hundred thousand worlds with his sons and daughters, granting them custody of the galaxy itself... If a man guides a million vessels between the infinite stars with a mere thought... Then I pray you tell me, if you are able, how such a man is anything less than a god."). Big E never given rational points WHY he is not a God. He just doesn't answer to Lorgar's question. I don't remember the Lorgar's quote to Magnus properly. But it's about that Big E doesn't give answers about himself to him or to mankind.
@@livefromtheblacklibrary Lorgar: "If you want to join our side, you have to really hate the Emperor." Angron: "I do!" Lorgar: "Oh yeah, how much?" Angron: *_"A lot!"_* Lorgar: "Right, you're in." ;/
@@vitaliyred622 you make it sound like a singularly bad thing. That's the beauty of well crafted art (yes writing is art) is the room it leaves for interpretation.
@@zmsays Can I yet again blame this habit of people to take writing that is up to interpretation as plot holes and any poetic license as lazy writing as entirely to blame on Cinema sins and their ilk?
I'd totally watch a mental illness video on each of the Primarch and/or the Emperor. It's one thing to say "Gulliman has Ultra-Depression" or "Conrad is crazy", but to really dive deep into exactly what is going on in each of their heads, how it both effects and shapes them, would be fascinating to say the least.
I have bpd. I never really paid attention to Lorgar, until my husband send a short of this video to me. He was so sweet, and said hey look honey there's someone in 40k that understands.
One of the things about the 40k fandom that really irritates me sometimes is that they often seem to reduce the most complex and human characters to their memes, and i have always thought that lorgar is the biggest example of this. It really does suck to see how many 40k fans just consider lorgar to be an unlikeable idiot and fanatic, and i really hope a lot of those people see this video and can shift their perspective. This is an incredible video, my favorite of yours so far. Well done
While this Nuance is there Lorgar ultimately is a hypocritice, self deluded and genocidal zealot who cannot accept that he is evil. But the crux of it is that he always need something to justify himself.
40k fans don't actually read the lore they read dumb memes that recreate characters into things they literally aren't É.g guilliman loving an eldar even though the entire godblight book series constantly goes on about how guilliman refuses to be a tool for them and actively does the opposite of what they advise at times (taking off his armour) He doesn't even trust them fully he only takes their word due to them being more knowledgeable than himself
Would be insane to see such an irredeemable character redeemed one day, maybe through him becoming the emperor s reater daemon or something... maybe one day.
Angron : Permanent psychotic rage , his mental state is locked in the absolute peak of rage , in some of the books occasionally he has a moment of clarity where a detached part of his psyche observes what is going on and comments , if we were to use an analogy from the movie inside his rage is in the driver's seat all the time and all the other aspects of his mind are either dead or locked up in a cage in the back of his mental control room and occasionally pleading for something but the rage ignores them.
Lorgar may actually have had the most forked up childhood out of all the Primarchs & that’s taking into account the things Angron & Mortarion went through.
Kurze definitely had an awful childhood growing up haunted by premonitions and in the worst mashup of Gotham City & the Purge. I do wonder how much of his self imposed solitude was actually necessary for survival & how much was spurred on by his own self loathing?
According to the old lore, Curze ate homeless people and the abused of society to learn morality and ate gangsters to learn how to speak, bro. No one else would teach him. Bat boy all the way.
@@CrimsonTemplar2 In the book "The first Heretic" is a short passage where it is discribed how the incubators of diffrent Primarchs crashed onto their respective Homeworlds and how they left their incubators. Even though it isn´t said who was in which pod, their first interactions were pretty obvious as to who was which baby. Curze first thing to do after crashing on his planet was to break a dagger sized piece of glass from his incubator, which he used as a weapon to defend himself. That was only like a minute after crashing on Nostramo.
I think this is a reason why i like Lorgar so much, as well as Angron. i like Lorgar's character arc especially because with the "betrayal" of the emperor and destruction of Monarchia, he starts the process of becoming a new person, which culminates in one of my favorite scenes in the Horus heresy, Lorgar going to fight Corvus Corax knowing he will die, just so he can save his sons that he cares so deeply about. He and Angron are i think the most human of all the Primarchs.
Let's be honest, though.... Logar's sons had just throat slit and shot in the back Corax's sons.... i don't think they deserve being "saved" from Corax. I think they're getting their just rewards.
Honestly? I interpreted Lorgar's charge at Corax as a sorta "Suicide by Cop" sort of act. Death is an easy way out of the morally fractured shitstorm he's stirred up...and there it is, in the form of Corvus Corax. And it is DENIED to him by the biggest bastard in the galaxy--Curze. And Curze saves him as an act of torture, really.
Another interesting thing is he has the spitting image of the Emperor's visage. I have a feeling he was the Emperor's kindness and faith cut off from himself.
It's so....diseased, though. Angron likes Lorgar because no one has ever shown interest or love for him, ever. Aside from his legion, who he hates, so that love doesn't count. Love from a fellow primarch is something special, though, in his mind. Lorgar's sudden "love" for Angron is much the same way. It's not that they have anything in the world they share or bond over...it's that Lorgar sees that Angron is dying, and believes he can save him. If it weren't for that? Lorgar wouldn't give a shit about Angron. In that, the theory of Lorgar having BPD or NPD...is actually evidenced most strongly. Lorgar's interest in Angron is because he sees an opportunity to engage in acts that match "what a loving brother" would do.
I've never seen one of your videos before this. This has been an immensely interesting, on a analytical and conceptual level. I would love to see a video like this about Horus Lupercal. You've sparked my curiosity.
i honestly weep for Lorgar having a past of abusive peers. A lot of people make silly jokes and overall see him as pure evil. But even if i couldn't sympathize with his current self, he used to be somewhat a decent person (as much as a crusader could be considered "decent"). Thanks for this video, honestly, i hope you should make more Primarch psychology vids, i am very curious what would you do for analysing the Emperor.
I’ve got to say this My wife suffers from BPD and a lot of what you’re saying hits pretty close to home, especially when you mentioned the Guilliman line. I’ve both had a similar thought, and been on the receiving end of these responses. It’s been hard and a struggle, but we’re working through it. I’ve also gotta say Kor Phoeron being Lorgar’s Favourite person makes a lot of sense. I think if Lorgar had a better parental figure who set good boundaries and helped Lorgar manage his emotions, he could’ve been an incredibly person. A thing we’ve learned together is that for a person with BPD, they feel more, and they hurt more than normal.
Who thinks that Bruva Alfabusa’s TTS has seeped into the wider 40K community when it comes to interpreting characters, like Rogal Dorn being a brick, Magnus being an Australian nerd, the Fabulous Custodes, etc? I think a video explaining Bruva Alfabusa’s impact on 40K as a whole would be fascinating.
@@lordilluminati5836 I wouldn't say that TTS was generally bad for the fandom, It brought a lot of jokes and themes that unite a lot of the fandom even to this day. But, I do agree that TTS did indeed "succeeded" to much into amplifiying the "memes=lore" aspect of the fandom which remove a lot of the ability to analyse complex characters in favor of putting said characters in meme categories like "Perturabo=Just a Manchild" or "Leman RUSS=He is a furry and an idiot" or in the instance of the video "Lorgar= he is just a fanatic and the worst primarch". P.S: Sorry by advance for any english mistakes
I used to date a girl with bpd, it was not fun. Me also being depressed at the time probably didn't help either, but it was such a physical and mental drain that I simply couldn't find it in me to continue the relationship. That being said, I'd like a video like this on Angron, as I personally resonate well with his struggles with the butchers nails
I personally have bpd. I thought i was just projecting that onto lorgars characater when i read through the heresy. But having someone else agree on this not only makes me feel better. But I understand lorgar so much more now. Its making him one of my favourite traitors. Thanks for another amazing video with a unique perspective.
So THATS why I like Logar so much, mirrors my own life but just a lot more f**ked up. I know what its like having your favrote idolised person turn their backs on you and just tumble all youve built while being surrounded by the nipping dogs of those who raised you. You love them still, but theres a boiling hate, Logar telling Kharn about Erebus killing his best friend was probably in one of those intense hate fuled mind-set when you think about how you've been treated by those you would choke on searing oil for.
Hi, i dont usually comment on videos, but i've recently been diagnosed with bpd, and many of the elements highlighted really resonanted with me, and probably will be brought in future sessions with my psych. Just wanted to say thanks for the good collected work, and hope you have a great day. Xoxo
this video was genuinely hard to sit through, but I'm so glad I found it as interesting as lorgar is, I think this video is also a great resource for explaining BPD, as it's full of perfect examples of manipulation, the emotinal needs of those suffering, and especially their tendency to form near-obsessive relationships with people they care about. I might just have been hit hard because this describes someone very close to me who I suspect does both suffer from this and have me as their favourite person, but I really think that you explained and demonstrated this mental illness to regular people better than most actual psychologists can
Bewteen this video and the Abadon one you have brought me to tears and helped me understand my afflicted famliy members more then anything else ... Your work with 40k being used as an allegory to real life is touching.. Words cant express how thankful I am to you.. Please keep making more of these
About the Zardu Layak Statue. It could be because Lorgar realized that Zardu was simply following the will of the Gods in a much purer form than even he did. A Martyr that truely put the will of the Gods above all else even Legion and Primarch. Back then Lorgar was still convinced that the main goal of the hersy was truely to win the fight on Terra and take control of the Imperium. Whereas Zardu had already been given visions of what was to come, and he already knew the Importance of Abbadon in the years to come. He was making sure Abbadon got where he was to make his way ready to become the next Everchosen. The Gods since the start called Horus the Sacrificial Lamb. He was never meant to win. He was simply ment to either Kill or wound the emperor enough to create the Version of 40k THEY had shown Horus. because that future would feed them on a scale never before seen. 10k years of constant war betrayal, decay, depravity. Something not seen since the Fall of the Eldar. Lorgar Likely realized all this in his years of Meditation and thus in retrospect was like "Zardu did the right thing"
You would think the Emperor, in his tens of thousands of years of life mastering all human sciences, would have taken a decade or two to study some basic psychology and parenting before making twenty demigod generals. It would have saved him so much grief.
I clicked this video thinking it would be a rundown of why Lorgar is an idiot - it indeed was not. Thank you for a great analysis of Lorgars character. What a wonderful video sir.
I've been such an idiot. All these traits of BPD are a copy paste of my ex. I broke up with her because I couldn't take the issues anymore. At the time it was really horrible between us. One moment she's happy, the next it's war because I need to go get something for a few minutes. After the breakup I heard she fell sick. Haven't been able to reach her since.
i have bpd. i have looked to the primarchs as metaphors for mental health issues for a long time. when i was in the mental hospital a month ago i would walk twenty laps around the unit to make a mile and count my laps with the names of each primarch and their legion ([redacted][redacted] for ii and xi). but i never learned much about lorgar. most people just say "fuck erebus" which i agree with but also doesn't tell me much. i think you've given a fairly accurate picture of it and drawn realistic comparisons between how we are and how lorgar is like us. thank you for talking about this. much love 😇
i think a sanguinius mental health would be an intresting video, since he does actually struggle alot with anger issues and self doubt, but yet he appears so perfect to the public
Hearing all the stuff that Lorgar had to go through, his need for validation, and his city getting burned down by his father is really sad. I just wanna give him a hug.
Ill be honest, the Emperors treatment of lorgar and Monarchia genuinely made me angry. Lorgar truly loved the Emperor in a way that was honestly touching. And he gets thanked for it by having his passion project destroyed and his legion forced to kneel all because the Emperor apparently is just R/Atheism embodied. That scene is genuinely when i just began to HATE the emperor of man, which i still do to this day even after the siege of terra books so far, and genuinely think he deserves the misery of the golden throne for 10000 years. It proves in my mind that the Emperor is truly not much better at all than the warlords and Tyrants of the techo barbarians and age of strife, the only difference is that he just had a stronger army.
2:35 that’s so true what u say, it’s a common thing, find obscure rare made up mental illness, stigmatize it, then gaslight or paint anyone u dislike as having it, rinse and repeat.
Well thought out video. As someone who grew up in severe abuse, I’ve always empathized with the Chaos Primarchs more, Lorgar and Angron specifically. I’d like to here you’re thoughts on all of them, broken down like this video.
I think the reason why BPD it’s hard to finding people and is scared because one people can just assume the person is just overly emotional and two media tend to view people with bpd as evil to the core then when I can think of the best is Tony Sopranos’s mom from the Sopranos people view that as the standard of someone with BPD without actually knowing what BPD is is sort of like a lot of people think people with multiple personality disorders think that they’re very dangerous because they can’t control their actions which is not true only to the most extreme cases
Yaaaaaay live from the black library. I love writing my chapter lore to your videos. Also as a schizophrenic I really appreciate the way you handled that subject. I remember telling people that I have schizophrenia in that time and they suddenly looked at me like I was a fucking daemon. Like family members would shew their kids away from me, and it still is pretty bad. I was at a friend's party and one of his buddies asked him if he was cool with me having a few beers because I am schizophrenic. Like if I drank a six pack with some friends I was going to turn into a fucking werewolf and kill everyone.
@@livefromtheblacklibraryalways man and thanks for always paying attention to your fans again. It really is one of my favorite parts of your channel, and again I can not stress this enough thank you for acknowledging mental illness in your videos in a constructive way. As a schizophrenic I really appreciate the way you go about humanizing us.
Oh they're all human. They're human with an utter failure of a father, which due to the cult of personality within and outside of the setting often gets looked over for being the biggest problem within the imperium.
As someone with BPD I have to say that your explanation of it is really good and lorgar def fits the description to a tee. Thanks for the great video and the understanding of a often misunderstood diagnosis. Also, worth noting that you should be careful when using the acronym BPD as it can also refer to BiPolar Disorder.
Been watching your channel for a while now and you consistently bring topics that are rooted in things that we (as the fan base) love while still introducing and exploring topics that I would have never really thought to explore on a deeper level or even thought was even that possible to explore to the extent that you do. I would love to see more content like this and look forward to all your uploads. Thanks for the hard work and we will be eagerly awaiting what you cook up next.
Great video! also, the context of Colchis is very interesting because high religiosity is in direct correlation with high-stress levels (that desert climate naturally produces).
Thanks for tackling this lore with such respect. I have diagnosed BPD (it might be autism or comorbid, waiting for the results of testing). My mother, who abused me, also has it. I'm not in contact with her anymore, but the abuse has left scares. I try to not be like she was, but it is hard. Emotional regulation when things go wrong is hard (only my anger is at myself, im missing most of my fingers, so when i drop something i get livid at myself) but im working on it. Anyway, i really appreciate the compassion you came at this video with. The characters in 40k are in such a extreme and fantastical situation, i imagine that would make any pre existing conditions much harder to live with.
When trying to figure out what's wrong with me, I've never given BPD the time of day because I conflated "predominantly diagnosed in women" with "imposible in men" but man, I've got some research to do now. Excellent commentary as always.
@@CesarGonzalez-bw2hz you should try some heavy lifting and a change of diet(meats and vegetables), and you'll more then likely feel better mentally and physically as a man
He wasn't there when Monarchia was destroyed. The First Heretic says they arrived a short time after. Argel Tal noted, I think, that nothing higher than a small pile of stones remained.
Your analysis is great and makes me appreciate the horus heresy even more because it’s so true how psychology/mental health issues makes for relatable stories and characters
Great video, only some relatively small pointers: --> In his Primarch novel we learned that Lorgar allowed everything Kor did to him and saw through everything Kor and Erebus were up to. --> The Emperor never forbade him from worship, he only denied being a god. But Lorgar realized how flawed the Emperor were when they were punished for being slow in conquering new wolrds. --> In Know no fear, Lorgar was playing Guilliman like a fiddle, using all of his brothers missconception about him to deflect Guilliman finding out the Truth. Before it was too late. --> Lorgar is only being called too emotional in reference to Guilliman.
I really do love how well Lorgar's been fleshed out. Betrayer did such a good job making him LIKEABLE that I actually really want him to be redeemed. He'd be so good these days, for the reason you pointed out that he is better off now, mentally, than he ever was. Chaos has improved him in so many ways and if he can be redeemed, repair his relationship with Guilliman, and be put in charge of the Ecclesiarchy/Inquisition and maybe work with the Grey Knights, he'd be one of the most beneficial primarchs around. His penchant for ensuring compliance would be sorely welcome now, for sure.
It sucks because a lot of the traitor primarchs fall into the “death Vader dilemma”. Where at the end of Star Wars a lot of people wished that Vader would not have died and instead gone with Luke to become a leading figure in the new form of the universe. The problem is, the things they’ve done will on the “evil” side are often so repugnant that the general populace and leaders outside of the main names and faces would demand that, regardless of a change of heart, they pay penance for their crimes against whatever institution they wronged. No matter how much they might have changed, Vader murdered countless children and slaughtered thousands of innocents. Lorgar is the face of orchestrating the Heresy and whispering into Horus’s ear. Not to mention how salty many chapters still are about Istvaan. So as much as I would like to see that as well, I just don’t see it as being a likely thing to ever happen to any of the traitor primarchs. They’ve dug themselves so deep, done so many unspeakably evil things and committed heresy of the highest order for 10k years. I don’t think it would be possible for enough people in power to brush it under the rug regardless of how powerful he would be back in the fold. But hey maybe I’m wrong and we will see something like that and we’ll get a satisfying explanation as to why they aren’t crucified. Edit: sorry for the essay
@@Slime_Goblin Yeah, it'd be a genuine crisis again for Lorgar, tbh. He'd have to contend with himself being evil when he really doesn't see that. He'd also have to deal with the Emperor face to face and likely not like what he sees. I'm more willing to believe he'd take pity on him and would rather murder the figure in the warp or something rather than help. He is just mentally more stable now. Tbh, the things I put down are more a "what could have been" for him if he were still loyal and idealized version of Lorgar that we yearn for. But he isn't that!
@@crabwalker01 yeah kinda like the whole clone grim thing. Unfortunately GW seems to love to absolutely bury or banish any sorts of cool ideas like that into the shadow realm and ruin it for everybody.
I think it makes perfect sense that the primarch's and even the emperor have flaws because at the end of the day they are still human sure they are incredible geniuses with incredible powers but they still are human at their core and all humans are inevitably flawed in some way even if they're amazing at almost everything else.
I'm diagnosed with BPD and I think you did a good job with your analysis here. Lorgar is very evil, but I do empathize with him, given his abuse and his favourite-personing of the Emperor. Know No Fear was my first HH book, and the scene you reference with the scrap code, and Guilliman's post-analysis, just screamed BPD to me. Given Lorgar's abuse, I deeply pity him. He's so evil at this point that his actions will never be forgivable, but I feel for him. If only Kor, Erebus, and Emps weren't the worst people ever.
Ive only seem this topic from one other channel about the physcology of Logar. That one ended up turning into a philosophy of Logar but i feel if you put the two videos together you get a better picture of Logars character. Well done videos by the way I feel like your a growing star in the 40k comunity.
PLEASE do one of these on Fulgrim. I feel like he gets very misunderstood, and at points, even by the writters. Like he goes from being insecure from a genuenly good reason, having huge shoes to fill, to the stereotypical narcissistic diva, wich imo doesnt really make sense at any level deeper than his looks, but maybe you can make a video on that and explain better than i understand it now. Anyways, awsome video dude
I´m currently reading "Know no Fear" and this scene was even more telling in its full lenght since Guiliman didn´t even straight up said Logar might have brought the scrapcode into the system. The whole conversation on Guilimans part was polite and objective. He just said what the problem is, that they haven´t found the source on Clath yet and then asked Lorgar if he might be so kind to check his own systems just in case they don´t find the source in Calths systems
I have to say. I can understand why Lorgar betrayed the emperor. Lorgar was raised to be a priest! Something you can not change quick. You have to strip him of everything he is raised to believe in, everything this person is! And the emperor has nothing better to do then to destroy the one thing you are most proud of. Your biggest achievement that you did for your father as a kind of present. And he destroyed it. And who helped him your brother!!!! Damn I think most of us would be furious at this moment!
There are no words for how much that would hurt a person. Imagine just wanting to make your Dad proud. To show him how much you love him, and then he ruins your life and shows of the "Golden Child" right in front of you. That would crush anyone
Great video, it was well researched and well explained. You could probably make this an video series exploring the Primarchs mental issues and what not. Exploration into Guilliman's OCD when?
Logar has a huge problem - he created the Cult of the Emperor and with it a fantastic institution that he has to destroy as a servant of the Chos Gods.
Lorgar to me had one of the wildest arcs in fiction as I’d argue he was the weakest of the emps sons but had one of if not THE biggest impact on the setting
Really enjoyed this video and it makes me wanna get the rest of the books of the Horus heresy and read them all. Almost done with Horus rising and my God it's been amazing
As you can tell by the name big Lorgar fan. I completely agree with the diagnosis, you also see it in the scene with Magnus before he attacks Calth "I JUST WANTED THE TRUTH!" he gets very emotionally easily. And i would Love LOVE Lorgar to come out of his meditations and actually participate in the current setting have him be a reluctant but honest rival to Abaddon in controlling the Chaos forces.
Being bipolar, my personal experience is not bursts of anger like angron- and any time I mention I have it everyone assumes I am a time bomb ready to fly off the handle like him. For me, it just means some days I’m happy for no reason, sometimes I’m sad for no reason- it doesn’t burst out of nowhere like people think. Just one persons experience
Lorgar definitely my favourite primarch, his Portrayal is betrayer is brilliant it really fleshes out his character. His speech above armatura is amazing he might be crazy but he’s right in a lot of things he says.
Everytime I hear a breakdown of BPD it's as if my life is plainly layed out as a series of hypothetical symptoms. I'm not ready to bargain. So in denial I shall remain.
Well, sugar. Yes, I have someone who checks most of those boxes. And more that we are unpacking. Which are, unfortunately, all meshed together with CPTSD. They also self-diagnose as bi-polar, and are phobicly frightened of one day becoming schizophrenic.
We have to recognize that lograr, from all the primachs, recognize in some way his mental health issues and work to change, even if it took 10,000 years to overcome 200 years. All primarcs live is tragedy in some form or another, and the good things an people they have in their life’s look like they just exist to be removed from them and just put pressure
For people with BPD, reactions to rejection can vary, like substance abuse or seeking professional help, or you know…. SELLING YOU SOUL TO HELL AND WORSHIPPING 4 SATANS 😂
I would love to see you do something like this for Magnus. I think his time trying to warn the Emperor of Horus's rebellion, as well as his general behaviors and the behavior of his sons, would make for a very rich analysis
After hearing this has really changed my opinion on him. Now this also makes me wonder how different would he be if he was raised by someone else on his homeworld. Maybe some kinder priest wouldve taken him in and be a proper father for him. Also makes me wonder if he did have a different and much better father would his new dad convirt to idea of there being the one true god and then help him spread the good word? Maybe if so he would know how mich a snake Eurabis is
Alpharius is the biggest mental health crisis among the primarchs he's pure schizophrenic. "Trust me I have an identical twin we pretend to be each other" yeah okay Mr Rius take your meds
JESUS CHRIST JGDSGGFSDGD
Jesus Christ, save our souls man
Mr Rius😭😭
All the canonical brainwashing didn't help
Alpharius tricked his own twin into getting killed by Dorn... If that's a loyalist primarch maybe I don't wanna.
"But...But God 🥺 Why Are You Burnin' My Church?"
“Lol” said the emperor “lmao”
"nooooo space Marines of the death-watch why are you killing us we're trying to enact the ritual to bring ynead to reality now we shall all surely perish"-eldar
" lol" said the space marine "lmao "
@@livefromtheblacklibraryif you make a video on Conrad you might be interested in a theory I’ve heard that he had split personality’s which is why half the time he’s bawling crying over what he does in the other half
@kenrudd6362 you just copied what OP said.
YOU DID NOT MEET THE QUOTA
Therapist: Do you have a history of mental illness in the family?
Rogal Dorn: i have a brother named Lorgar.
And Konrad Curze, and mortarion, and Alpharius, and angron, and Fulgrim, and Corvus Corax, and perturabo, and the lion, and Ferrus. Yeah all of those.
@@Tortle-ManCorvus its fine, the LION too... Ferrus was fine, Fulgrim before the di ck sword was cool. Perturabo its a manchild.
@@ArantyrDarkhand Dildo Rapier is the correct term.
The lion is just not very sociable
Other than that he's fine
In the lion son of the forest book
He very blatantly becomes quite social especially as he forms his own little empire with like 20 marines
Russ: I have an uncle who’s Christian.
Ollanius: Sup.
To me Lorgar has always been one of the most real and human primarchs and characters in general in the setting. I've never thought about him as an individual with BPD but the fact that Aaron Dembski-Bowden came out some years ago saying he has BPD makes a lot of sense now.
Yeah i have bpd too and lorgar resonates with me in some ways
"Hmmmmm, my daddy 𝙨𝙩𝙧𝙤𝙣𝙜𝙡𝙮 stated that I shouldn't worship him as a god..." **summons space deamons**
Malicious compliance
Tbf the emperor didnt give lorgar (someone who was insanely blatantly religious) an outlet for his belief. If the emperor described the imperial truth as a religion where humanity reign as gods over the galaxy I could see lorgar fully going into it
@@some_shitposting_idiot3023 The Last priest on earth really got to Big E. Lorgar was the proof of what the Priest told him would happen. That people would see Big E as god, and people to worship him. Big E couldn't have it. Would NOT have it. So he really went down hard on Lorgar.
(Warning, grammar on point. My knowledge of English is very low)
tbf, I kinda understand Lorgar about ignoring Emperor's "I am not a God" words.
It maybe sounds a little bit weird but Lorgar kinda have rational-religious mental set. His book,Lectitio Divinitatus, was written with use of rational points(for example, "if a man gathers ten thousand suns in his hands... If a man seeds a hundred thousand worlds with his sons and daughters, granting them custody of the galaxy itself... If a man guides a million vessels between the infinite stars with a mere thought... Then I pray you tell me, if you are able, how such a man is anything less than a god."). Big E never given rational points WHY he is not a God. He just doesn't answer to Lorgar's question. I don't remember the Lorgar's quote to Magnus properly. But it's about that Big E doesn't give answers about himself to him or to mankind.
Strongly like his first dad. Really the same person it seems.
*"DO NOT WORSHIP ME."*
"...What did father *mean* by this? 🤔"
“I’m not the messiah!”
“Only the true messiah denies his divinity!”
@@livefromtheblacklibrary
Lorgar: "If you want to join our side, you have to really hate the Emperor."
Angron: "I do!"
Lorgar: "Oh yeah, how much?"
Angron: *_"A lot!"_*
Lorgar: "Right, you're in." ;/
@@livefromtheblacklibrary Stilgar and the Muad'dib
@@katamattyon and Life of Brian before that.
@@Idontevenwanachannel Great film but Dune's book came 14 years before it
This is the kind of lore we needed. We've got enough review, not enough analysis. ESPECIALLY in ways that reflect deeply in us as we currently are.
THANKS!!!! Yeah I love making videos like this!
@@livefromtheblacklibrary
I have to agree. There is so much reductive analysis. What you have done here adds to the lore.
Well done Sir.
Yeah, and then writers: ohhh, sweet fans are filling in our plot holes and motivations.
@@vitaliyred622 you make it sound like a singularly bad thing. That's the beauty of well crafted art (yes writing is art) is the room it leaves for interpretation.
@@zmsays Can I yet again blame this habit of people to take writing that is up to interpretation as plot holes and any poetic license as lazy writing as entirely to blame on Cinema sins and their ilk?
I'd totally watch a mental illness video on each of the Primarch and/or the Emperor. It's one thing to say "Gulliman has Ultra-Depression" or "Conrad is crazy", but to really dive deep into exactly what is going on in each of their heads, how it both effects and shapes them, would be fascinating to say the least.
Amen!
If you were to be insanely disengenious you could make the lion out to be a victim of Stockholm syndrome
@@some_shitposting_idiot3023 id just say hes autistic, fits.
I have bpd. I never really paid attention to Lorgar, until my husband send a short of this video to me. He was so sweet, and said hey look honey there's someone in 40k that understands.
One of the things about the 40k fandom that really irritates me sometimes is that they often seem to reduce the most complex and human characters to their memes, and i have always thought that lorgar is the biggest example of this. It really does suck to see how many 40k fans just consider lorgar to be an unlikeable idiot and fanatic, and i really hope a lot of those people see this video and can shift their perspective. This is an incredible video, my favorite of yours so far. Well done
Not everyone thinks this way
While this Nuance is there Lorgar ultimately is a hypocritice, self deluded and genocidal zealot who cannot accept that he is evil. But the crux of it is that he always need something to justify himself.
Or people that calls Erebus a bad character just because they dislike his actions, they are incapable of separate in universe fiction literary reality
40k fans don't actually read the lore they read dumb memes that recreate characters into things they literally aren't
É.g guilliman loving an eldar even though the entire godblight book series constantly goes on about how guilliman refuses to be a tool for them and actively does the opposite of what they advise at times (taking off his armour)
He doesn't even trust them fully he only takes their word due to them being more knowledgeable than himself
funny how people can forget the primarchs were made with big brains so fucking complex folks almost had aneurysms trying to comprehend that shit.
Shoot, Angron mental health is the kill everything on site, due to the butcher nails and Khrone being a bit of a dick. 😔
Diagnosis: Angy
Would be insane to see such an irredeemable character redeemed one day, maybe through him becoming the emperor s reater daemon or something... maybe one day.
Angron : Permanent psychotic rage , his mental state is locked in the absolute peak of rage , in some of the books occasionally he has a moment of clarity where a detached part of his psyche observes what is going on and comments , if we were to use an analogy from the movie inside his rage is in the driver's seat all the time and all the other aspects of his mind are either dead or locked up in a cage in the back of his mental control room and occasionally pleading for something but the rage ignores them.
A bit?
I guess writing a solid essay on the primarchs could be a pretty good university assignment.
🤔 🤔 🤔
Lorgar may actually have had the most forked up childhood out of all the Primarchs & that’s taking into account the things Angron & Mortarion went through.
You're forgetting someone 🦇
Kurze definitely had an awful childhood growing up haunted by premonitions and in the worst mashup of Gotham City & the Purge. I do wonder how much of his self imposed solitude was actually necessary for survival & how much was spurred on by his own self loathing?
According to the old lore, Curze ate homeless people and the abused of society to learn morality and ate gangsters to learn how to speak, bro. No one else would teach him. Bat boy all the way.
@@CrimsonTemplar2 In the book "The first Heretic" is a short passage where it is discribed how the incubators of diffrent Primarchs crashed onto their respective Homeworlds and how they left their incubators. Even though it isn´t said who was in which pod, their first interactions were pretty obvious as to who was which baby. Curze first thing to do after crashing on his planet was to break a dagger sized piece of glass from his incubator, which he used as a weapon to defend himself. That was only like a minute after crashing on Nostramo.
@@unnamed1613 power of foresight is a heluva upbringing.
I think this is a reason why i like Lorgar so much, as well as Angron. i like Lorgar's character arc especially because with the "betrayal" of the emperor and destruction of Monarchia, he starts the process of becoming a new person, which culminates in one of my favorite scenes in the Horus heresy, Lorgar going to fight Corvus Corax knowing he will die, just so he can save his sons that he cares so deeply about. He and Angron are i think the most human of all the Primarchs.
Let's be honest, though.... Logar's sons had just throat slit and shot in the back Corax's sons.... i don't think they deserve being "saved" from Corax. I think they're getting their just rewards.
Honestly? I interpreted Lorgar's charge at Corax as a sorta "Suicide by Cop" sort of act. Death is an easy way out of the morally fractured shitstorm he's stirred up...and there it is, in the form of Corvus Corax.
And it is DENIED to him by the biggest bastard in the galaxy--Curze. And Curze saves him as an act of torture, really.
So you’re telling me Lorgar has Based Personality Disorder?
He has Based Person Disease
nah hes not based
He’s pretty based. I’ve just drawn you as the soyjack, your words mean nothing, my dude.
@@passchen-fail3704 💀
@@passchen-fail3704 a real "I drew myself as the chad and you burn in hell" moment here
Lorgar on his way to justify worshipping 4 actual Satans:
I can’t believe you would talk about my grandpa like that
@@passchen-fail3704 you mean one of the four satans or lorgar?
@@breakdown3317 they mean nurgle
Honestly Lorgar is my favorite Primarch. Also nobody ever talks about the friendship between Lorgar and Angron during the heresy.
Another interesting thing is he has the spitting image of the Emperor's visage. I have a feeling he was the Emperor's kindness and faith cut off from himself.
It's so....diseased, though. Angron likes Lorgar because no one has ever shown interest or love for him, ever. Aside from his legion, who he hates, so that love doesn't count. Love from a fellow primarch is something special, though, in his mind. Lorgar's sudden "love" for Angron is much the same way. It's not that they have anything in the world they share or bond over...it's that Lorgar sees that Angron is dying, and believes he can save him. If it weren't for that? Lorgar wouldn't give a shit about Angron.
In that, the theory of Lorgar having BPD or NPD...is actually evidenced most strongly. Lorgar's interest in Angron is because he sees an opportunity to engage in acts that match "what a loving brother" would do.
And nobody ever mention the respect both Magnus AND Russ showed for his skills as an orator and philosopher
@@Eldeecue I agree. Which is why I said friendship not love
I've never seen one of your videos before this. This has been an immensely interesting, on a analytical and conceptual level. I would love to see a video like this about Horus Lupercal. You've sparked my curiosity.
THANK OMG! Glad you liked this one!!!
@@livefromtheblacklibrary dude i would love a Horus psychological analysis! i say make it a series.
i honestly weep for Lorgar having a past of abusive peers. A lot of people make silly jokes and overall see him as pure evil. But even if i couldn't sympathize with his current self, he used to be somewhat a decent person (as much as a crusader could be considered "decent"). Thanks for this video, honestly, i hope you should make more Primarch psychology vids, i am very curious what would you do for analysing the Emperor.
I’ve got to say this
My wife suffers from BPD and a lot of what you’re saying hits pretty close to home, especially when you mentioned the Guilliman line. I’ve both had a similar thought, and been on the receiving end of these responses. It’s been hard and a struggle, but we’re working through it.
I’ve also gotta say Kor Phoeron being Lorgar’s Favourite person makes a lot of sense. I think if Lorgar had a better parental figure who set good boundaries and helped Lorgar manage his emotions, he could’ve been an incredibly person. A thing we’ve learned together is that for a person with BPD, they feel more, and they hurt more than normal.
Who thinks that Bruva Alfabusa’s TTS has seeped into the wider 40K community when it comes to interpreting characters, like Rogal Dorn being a brick, Magnus being an Australian nerd, the Fabulous Custodes, etc? I think a video explaining Bruva Alfabusa’s impact on 40K as a whole would be fascinating.
I love the TTS magnus tbh, he had so much character in him and he genuinely carried the series
TTS has been generally bad for the fandom, amplifying some of the worst aspects of it.
@@lordilluminati5836TTS also helped introduce many people to warhammer 40k.
@@lordilluminati5836 I wouldn't say that TTS was generally bad for the fandom, It brought a lot of jokes and themes that unite a lot of the fandom even to this day.
But, I do agree that TTS did indeed "succeeded" to much into amplifiying the "memes=lore" aspect of the fandom which remove a lot of the ability to analyse complex characters in favor of putting said characters in meme categories like "Perturabo=Just a Manchild" or "Leman RUSS=He is a furry and an idiot" or in the instance of the video "Lorgar= he is just a fanatic and the worst primarch".
P.S: Sorry by advance for any english mistakes
I used to date a girl with bpd, it was not fun. Me also being depressed at the time probably didn't help either, but it was such a physical and mental drain that I simply couldn't find it in me to continue the relationship.
That being said, I'd like a video like this on Angron, as I personally resonate well with his struggles with the butchers nails
How does one get depressed and have a gf wth???
@@retardedfishfrogs1
Your name checks out
I do love Lorgar, I really do. If he had long hair, he'd be my favourite character. But I still love him and need him to be happy.
Baldophobic hahaha... in the 40 millenia, everyone with a bald head its a villain.
@@ArantyrDarkhandVulkan: “Am I a joke to you?”
@@ArantyrDarkhandsay that again and maybe Vulkan will manifested
I personally have bpd. I thought i was just projecting that onto lorgars characater when i read through the heresy. But having someone else agree on this not only makes me feel better. But I understand lorgar so much more now. Its making him one of my favourite traitors. Thanks for another amazing video with a unique perspective.
It seems like im the guy with bpd
Learned more about the human condition than 40k with this one.. definitely not complaining, just surprised. You made something very unique.
So THATS why I like Logar so much, mirrors my own life but just a lot more f**ked up.
I know what its like having your favrote idolised person turn their backs on you and just tumble all youve built while being surrounded by the nipping dogs of those who raised you.
You love them still, but theres a boiling hate, Logar telling Kharn about Erebus killing his best friend was probably in one of those intense hate fuled mind-set when you think about how you've been treated by those you would choke on searing oil for.
Hi, i dont usually comment on videos, but i've recently been diagnosed with bpd, and many of the elements highlighted really resonanted with me, and probably will be brought in future sessions with my psych. Just wanted to say thanks for the good collected work, and hope you have a great day. Xoxo
Do you work out?
this video was genuinely hard to sit through, but I'm so glad I found it
as interesting as lorgar is, I think this video is also a great resource for explaining BPD, as it's full of perfect examples of manipulation, the emotinal needs of those suffering, and especially their tendency to form near-obsessive relationships with people they care about. I might just have been hit hard because this describes someone very close to me who I suspect does both suffer from this and have me as their favourite person, but I really think that you explained and demonstrated this mental illness to regular people better than most actual psychologists can
Bewteen this video and the Abadon one you have brought me to tears and helped me understand my afflicted famliy members more then anything else ... Your work with 40k being used as an allegory to real life is touching.. Words cant express how thankful I am to you.. Please keep making more of these
About the Zardu Layak Statue. It could be because Lorgar realized that Zardu was simply following the will of the Gods in a much purer form than even he did. A Martyr that truely put the will of the Gods above all else even Legion and Primarch. Back then Lorgar was still convinced that the main goal of the hersy was truely to win the fight on Terra and take control of the Imperium. Whereas Zardu had already been given visions of what was to come, and he already knew the Importance of Abbadon in the years to come. He was making sure Abbadon got where he was to make his way ready to become the next Everchosen. The Gods since the start called Horus the Sacrificial Lamb. He was never meant to win. He was simply ment to either Kill or wound the emperor enough to create the Version of 40k THEY had shown Horus. because that future would feed them on a scale never before seen. 10k years of constant war betrayal, decay, depravity. Something not seen since the Fall of the Eldar.
Lorgar Likely realized all this in his years of Meditation and thus in retrospect was like "Zardu did the right thing"
You would think the Emperor, in his tens of thousands of years of life mastering all human sciences, would have taken a decade or two to study some basic psychology and parenting before making twenty demigod generals. It would have saved him so much grief.
But the Kicker is that Monarchia was working until erebus and kor phaeron opened their mouths.
I clicked this video thinking it would be a rundown of why Lorgar is an idiot - it indeed was not.
Thank you for a great analysis of Lorgars character. What a wonderful video sir.
THANKS DUDE! 🙏
The moment Lorgar steps outta the warp, he’s gonna be murder-bait
Y U P
Corvus just be sitting out there waiting for that. I would pay money to see that ass whoopin
Hehe cause a flock of crows is called a murder
He's left though
@@TheCrimsonApostle30k when? I was under the impression that he’d been sulking around in his tower for the past 10,000 years.
I've been such an idiot. All these traits of BPD are a copy paste of my ex. I broke up with her because I couldn't take the issues anymore. At the time it was really horrible between us. One moment she's happy, the next it's war because I need to go get something for a few minutes. After the breakup I heard she fell sick. Haven't been able to reach her since.
Let's hope she's took the easy way out 😅
They probably is going to have more control of their emotions later in their life. The older they are, the less severe their BPD is.
It is good that you feel guilt. But you don't have a responsibility to stay with someone incompatible. You have yourself to worry about too.
i have bpd. i have looked to the primarchs as metaphors for mental health issues for a long time. when i was in the mental hospital a month ago i would walk twenty laps around the unit to make a mile and count my laps with the names of each primarch and their legion ([redacted][redacted] for ii and xi). but i never learned much about lorgar. most people just say "fuck erebus" which i agree with but also doesn't tell me much. i think you've given a fairly accurate picture of it and drawn realistic comparisons between how we are and how lorgar is like us. thank you for talking about this. much love 😇
i think a sanguinius mental health would be an intresting video, since he does actually struggle alot with anger issues and self doubt, but yet he appears so perfect to the public
The difference is sanguinius is angry for the right reason.
Hearing all the stuff that Lorgar had to go through, his need for validation, and his city getting burned down by his father is really sad. I just wanna give him a hug.
Ill be honest, the Emperors treatment of lorgar and Monarchia genuinely made me angry. Lorgar truly loved the Emperor in a way that was honestly touching. And he gets thanked for it by having his passion project destroyed and his legion forced to kneel all because the Emperor apparently is just R/Atheism embodied.
That scene is genuinely when i just began to HATE the emperor of man, which i still do to this day even after the siege of terra books so far, and genuinely think he deserves the misery of the golden throne for 10000 years. It proves in my mind that the Emperor is truly not much better at all than the warlords and Tyrants of the techo barbarians and age of strife, the only difference is that he just had a stronger army.
"do you have a loved one that does have it?" Yes I love lorgar
2:35 that’s so true what u say, it’s a common thing, find obscure rare made up mental illness, stigmatize it, then gaslight or paint anyone u dislike as having it, rinse and repeat.
The scene from betrayer of lorgars realization, oh the pain
Well thought out video. As someone who grew up in severe abuse, I’ve always empathized with the Chaos Primarchs more, Lorgar and Angron specifically. I’d like to here you’re thoughts on all of them, broken down like this video.
I think the reason why BPD it’s hard to finding people and is scared because one people can just assume the person is just overly emotional and two media tend to view people with bpd as evil to the core then when I can think of the best is Tony Sopranos’s mom from the Sopranos people view that as the standard of someone with BPD without actually knowing what BPD is is sort of like a lot of people think people with multiple personality disorders think that they’re very dangerous because they can’t control their actions which is not true only to the most extreme cases
Yaaaaaay live from the black library. I love writing my chapter lore to your videos.
Also as a schizophrenic I really appreciate the way you handled that subject. I remember telling people that I have schizophrenia in that time and they suddenly looked at me like I was a fucking daemon. Like family members would shew their kids away from me, and it still is pretty bad. I was at a friend's party and one of his buddies asked him if he was cool with me having a few beers because I am schizophrenic. Like if I drank a six pack with some friends I was going to turn into a fucking werewolf and kill everyone.
AYYYY THANK YOU! 👀
@@livefromtheblacklibraryalways man and thanks for always paying attention to your fans again. It really is one of my favorite parts of your channel, and again I can not stress this enough thank you for acknowledging mental illness in your videos in a constructive way. As a schizophrenic I really appreciate the way you go about humanizing us.
Damn... I never thought I’d feel bad for Lorgar. This lens really give him some more human characteristics
Oh they're all human. They're human with an utter failure of a father, which due to the cult of personality within and outside of the setting often gets looked over for being the biggest problem within the imperium.
As someone with BPD I have to say that your explanation of it is really good and lorgar def fits the description to a tee. Thanks for the great video and the understanding of a often misunderstood diagnosis.
Also, worth noting that you should be careful when using the acronym BPD as it can also refer to BiPolar Disorder.
Dembski Bowden, the author, also has BPD, it’s likely he was drawing on personal experience while writing Lorgar.
Been watching your channel for a while now and you consistently bring topics that are rooted in things that we (as the fan base) love while still introducing and exploring topics that I would have never really thought to explore on a deeper level or even thought was even that possible to explore to the extent that you do. I would love to see more content like this and look forward to all your uploads.
Thanks for the hard work and we will be eagerly awaiting what you cook up next.
“Everybody’s favorite”chrono I think we have different definitions of that word.
To be fair who else fits the description of “preacher turned demon worshipper turned raven bait”?
Great video! also, the context of Colchis is very interesting because high religiosity is in direct correlation with high-stress levels (that desert climate naturally produces).
Thanks for tackling this lore with such respect. I have diagnosed BPD (it might be autism or comorbid, waiting for the results of testing). My mother, who abused me, also has it. I'm not in contact with her anymore, but the abuse has left scares. I try to not be like she was, but it is hard. Emotional regulation when things go wrong is hard (only my anger is at myself, im missing most of my fingers, so when i drop something i get livid at myself) but im working on it. Anyway, i really appreciate the compassion you came at this video with. The characters in 40k are in such a extreme and fantastical situation, i imagine that would make any pre existing conditions much harder to live with.
When trying to figure out what's wrong with me, I've never given BPD the time of day because I conflated "predominantly diagnosed in women" with "imposible in men" but man, I've got some research to do now. Excellent commentary as always.
Always go to a professional for stuff like this, self-diagnosis can be dangerous.
Do you work out?
@@OrroHelhammer Light exercise 2-3 times a week, yeah.
@@CesarGonzalez-bw2hz you should try some heavy lifting and a change of diet(meats and vegetables), and you'll more then likely feel better mentally and physically as a man
He wasn't there when Monarchia was destroyed. The First Heretic says they arrived a short time after. Argel Tal noted, I think, that nothing higher than a small pile of stones remained.
As someone with two degrees that focus heavily on psychopathology, this is a great exploration and explanation!
#humbleBrag 🙄 no one asked
This channel is cognito hazard the way i keep going “oh fuck” with every post
Your analysis is great and makes me appreciate the horus heresy even more because it’s so true how psychology/mental health issues makes for relatable stories and characters
Great video, only some relatively small pointers:
--> In his Primarch novel we learned that Lorgar allowed everything Kor did to him and saw through everything Kor and Erebus were up to.
--> The Emperor never forbade him from worship, he only denied being a god. But Lorgar realized how flawed the Emperor were when they were punished for being slow in conquering new wolrds.
--> In Know no fear, Lorgar was playing Guilliman like a fiddle, using all of his brothers missconception about him to deflect Guilliman finding out the Truth. Before it was too late.
--> Lorgar is only being called too emotional in reference to Guilliman.
I really do love how well Lorgar's been fleshed out. Betrayer did such a good job making him LIKEABLE that I actually really want him to be redeemed. He'd be so good these days, for the reason you pointed out that he is better off now, mentally, than he ever was. Chaos has improved him in so many ways and if he can be redeemed, repair his relationship with Guilliman, and be put in charge of the Ecclesiarchy/Inquisition and maybe work with the Grey Knights, he'd be one of the most beneficial primarchs around. His penchant for ensuring compliance would be sorely welcome now, for sure.
It sucks because a lot of the traitor primarchs fall into the “death Vader dilemma”. Where at the end of Star Wars a lot of people wished that Vader would not have died and instead gone with Luke to become a leading figure in the new form of the universe.
The problem is, the things they’ve done will on the “evil” side are often so repugnant that the general populace and leaders outside of the main names and faces would demand that, regardless of a change of heart, they pay penance for their crimes against whatever institution they wronged. No matter how much they might have changed, Vader murdered countless children and slaughtered thousands of innocents. Lorgar is the face of orchestrating the Heresy and whispering into Horus’s ear. Not to mention how salty many chapters still are about Istvaan.
So as much as I would like to see that as well, I just don’t see it as being a likely thing to ever happen to any of the traitor primarchs. They’ve dug themselves so deep, done so many unspeakably evil things and committed heresy of the highest order for 10k years. I don’t think it would be possible for enough people in power to brush it under the rug regardless of how powerful he would be back in the fold.
But hey maybe I’m wrong and we will see something like that and we’ll get a satisfying explanation as to why they aren’t crucified.
Edit: sorry for the essay
@@Slime_Goblin Yeah, it'd be a genuine crisis again for Lorgar, tbh. He'd have to contend with himself being evil when he really doesn't see that. He'd also have to deal with the Emperor face to face and likely not like what he sees. I'm more willing to believe he'd take pity on him and would rather murder the figure in the warp or something rather than help. He is just mentally more stable now. Tbh, the things I put down are more a "what could have been" for him if he were still loyal and idealized version of Lorgar that we yearn for. But he isn't that!
@@crabwalker01 yeah kinda like the whole clone grim thing. Unfortunately GW seems to love to absolutely bury or banish any sorts of cool ideas like that into the shadow realm and ruin it for everybody.
I think it makes perfect sense that the primarch's and even the emperor have flaws because at the end of the day they are still human sure they are incredible geniuses with incredible powers but they still are human at their core and all humans are inevitably flawed in some way even if they're amazing at almost everything else.
Lorgar and the Word Bearers were my favourite from the start, since I myself am religious.
It helps to sympathise with Lorgar, when you aren't prejudiced against Word Bearers because of memes.
I'm diagnosed with BPD and I think you did a good job with your analysis here.
Lorgar is very evil, but I do empathize with him, given his abuse and his favourite-personing of the Emperor.
Know No Fear was my first HH book, and the scene you reference with the scrap code, and Guilliman's post-analysis, just screamed BPD to me.
Given Lorgar's abuse, I deeply pity him. He's so evil at this point that his actions will never be forgivable, but I feel for him. If only Kor, Erebus, and Emps weren't the worst people ever.
Holy shit - a 40k lore video that treats both the characters and real-world issues with appropriate intelligence and sensitivity? Nice work dude.
I would love more deep analysis into the different primarchs and what part of the Emperors mental illness they inherited
Babe wake up, Chrono uploaded!
IM AWAKE
This is honestly one of the best videos I've ever seen on BPD, which is suprising coming from a warhammer lore youtuber. Incredible job man!
Ive only seem this topic from one other channel about the physcology of Logar. That one ended up turning into a philosophy of Logar but i feel if you put the two videos together you get a better picture of Logars character.
Well done videos by the way I feel like your a growing star in the 40k comunity.
PLEASE do one of these on Fulgrim. I feel like he gets very misunderstood, and at points, even by the writters.
Like he goes from being insecure from a genuenly good reason, having huge shoes to fill, to the stereotypical narcissistic diva, wich imo doesnt really make sense at any level deeper than his looks, but maybe you can make a video on that and explain better than i understand it now.
Anyways, awsome video dude
I´m currently reading "Know no Fear" and this scene was even more telling in its full lenght since Guiliman didn´t even straight up said Logar might have brought the scrapcode into the system.
The whole conversation on Guilimans part was polite and objective. He just said what the problem is, that they haven´t found the source on Clath yet and then asked Lorgar if he might be so kind to check his own systems just in case they don´t find the source in Calths systems
I have to say. I can understand why Lorgar betrayed the emperor. Lorgar was raised to be a priest! Something you can not change quick. You have to strip him of everything he is raised to believe in, everything this person is! And the emperor has nothing better to do then to destroy the one thing you are most proud of. Your biggest achievement that you did for your father as a kind of present. And he destroyed it. And who helped him your brother!!!! Damn I think most of us would be furious at this moment!
There are no words for how much that would hurt a person.
Imagine just wanting to make your Dad proud. To show him how much you love him, and then he ruins your life and shows of the "Golden Child" right in front of you.
That would crush anyone
Great video, it was well researched and well explained. You could probably make this an video series exploring the Primarchs mental issues and what not.
Exploration into Guilliman's OCD when?
"How's that phyc 101 class going?"
"It's only day 3, but I understand how the world works now."
It’s kinda like that.
Lorgar was a very naughty child, and as a result, Kor Phaeron punished him severely.
He actually wasn't. At all.
Logar has a huge problem - he created the Cult of the Emperor and with it a fantastic institution that he has to destroy as a servant of the Chos Gods.
Lorgar to me had one of the wildest arcs in fiction as I’d argue he was the weakest of the emps sons but had one of if not THE biggest impact on the setting
Wait, your telling me lorgar is an unstable person? I had no idea.
Holy shit this is kind of a breather amongst other wh vids
Actual interesting stuff
Really enjoyed this video and it makes me wanna get the rest of the books of the Horus heresy and read them all. Almost done with Horus rising and my God it's been amazing
I heard mental and immediately sad out loud Conrad
'There is a history of mental illness in the Imperial family'
[cuts to Fulgrim]
I just hope that if Lorga returns to the Lore his mental health improvement will stay with him.
That spongebob clip at the start with Lorgar, Angron and Gulliman absolutely killed me 😂😂😂
I could imagine Lorgar becoming disillusioned with the Chaos gods in the future, and being more of a neutral player later on.
He is in meditation because he is afraid of the Bird Man
Erebus really pulled the "They're in your walls! They're in your walls! They're in your walls! They're in yo...." On Lorgar.
Between this video and other warhammer content, I’m convinced that 40k has simultaneously the smartest and dumbest writing all in one shared universe
Iron within
🫂🫂🫂
So what you saying is everything is Erebus fault.
As you can tell by the name big Lorgar fan. I completely agree with the diagnosis, you also see it in the scene with Magnus before he attacks Calth "I JUST WANTED THE TRUTH!" he gets very emotionally easily.
And i would Love LOVE Lorgar to come out of his meditations and actually participate in the current setting have him be a reluctant but honest rival to Abaddon in controlling the Chaos forces.
I really love this analytical type of video! Wish more would look at 40k this way
Being bipolar, my personal experience is not bursts of anger like angron- and any time I mention I have it everyone assumes I am a time bomb ready to fly off the handle like him. For me, it just means some days I’m happy for no reason, sometimes I’m sad for no reason- it doesn’t burst out of nowhere like people think. Just one persons experience
Lorgar definitely my favourite primarch, his Portrayal is betrayer is brilliant it really fleshes out his character. His speech above armatura is amazing he might be crazy but he’s right in a lot of things he says.
Everytime I hear a breakdown of BPD it's as if my life is plainly layed out as a series of hypothetical symptoms. I'm not ready to bargain. So in denial I shall remain.
Relatable
Well, sugar. Yes, I have someone who checks most of those boxes. And more that we are unpacking. Which are, unfortunately, all meshed together with CPTSD. They also self-diagnose as bi-polar, and are phobicly frightened of one day becoming schizophrenic.
I have a lot of respect for the way you tackled this.
We have to recognize that lograr, from all the primachs, recognize in some way his mental health issues and work to change, even if it took 10,000 years to overcome 200 years.
All primarcs live is tragedy in some form or another, and the good things an people they have in their life’s look like they just exist to be removed from them and just put pressure
Maybe the emperor mistakes are far worst that anyone could expected, it’s just sad, I’m sad now, all of them deserve better
For people with BPD, reactions to rejection can vary, like substance abuse or seeking professional help, or you know….
SELLING YOU SOUL TO HELL AND WORSHIPPING 4 SATANS 😂
Wonderful! Now do Pertutabo!!!
I have a video about him planned and it’s the weirdest one I’ve ever done
TOSSES BIRDSEED...
"MMWAHHH, MMWAHHH... ERE BIRDIE, BIRDIE... FOODS!"
I would love to see you do something like this for Magnus. I think his time trying to warn the Emperor of Horus's rebellion, as well as his general behaviors and the behavior of his sons, would make for a very rich analysis
After hearing this has really changed my opinion on him. Now this also makes me wonder how different would he be if he was raised by someone else on his homeworld. Maybe some kinder priest wouldve taken him in and be a proper father for him. Also makes me wonder if he did have a different and much better father would his new dad convirt to idea of there being the one true god and then help him spread the good word? Maybe if so he would know how mich a snake Eurabis is
Calth was an act of self defense.