Power2Max NGEco MTB Power Meter Review // Top Performing Off-Road Power Meter!
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- Опубликовано: 11 июл 2024
- The Power2Max NGeco MTB is a spider based power meter I've been using as a reliable baseline on my MTB for the last 12 months. This video covers all the technical details, dives into the data, and I briefly discuss the pros and cons of spider vs pedal power.
Links:
Power2Max NGeco Road Power Meter Review: • Power2Max NGeco Power ...
Favero Assioma PRO MX-2 Review Video: • Favero Assioma PRO MX ...
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Technical Specifications
Type: Spider (Multiple options depending on groupset).
Power Accuracy: ±2% (±1% verified is additional cost ~€100).
Power: 10 - 2999 W
Cadence: 20 - 250 RPM
Battery: CR2450 coin cell (Up to 300hrs)
Protocols: ANT+, Bluetooth.
Data: Power (total power), Cadence.
Additional Data (Paid Upgrades): Left-Right Balance, Pedal Smoothness. (€50 each).
Temperature Compensation: Yes*
Calibration: Auto-Calibration / Manual.
Oval/Q-Ring Compatibility: Information is sketchy. Maybe. Check with p2m.
Ingress Protection Rating: "Yes"... 🤷🏻♂️
Configuration / Firmware / Diagnostics: Power2Max App.
Weight: 132g Claimed
Warranty: 2 years.
Video Index:
0:00 Intro
0:44 Technical Specifications
3:27 Price
3:43 Shimano XTR Crank
4:03 Weight
4:30 Installation
5:26 Outdoor Rides
5:50 Data Review
9:01 Data Summary
9:14 Battery Cover Issue
9:32 Which Power Meter for MTB?
13:34 Wrap Up
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gplama.com
#cycling #powermeter #power2max 
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Had mine for nearly 4 years now and it hasn’t missed a prawn watt 🍤
Had their power meters for years on all my bikes. No issues, they just work. With SRAM 1x there is nothing simpler and in my world the less stress the better!
I use a NGEco on my road bike with a ROTOR crank. Just works reliably. Love that thing.
Been using this exact model for the last 2.5 years and it has been flawless
A great power meter for very reasonable price is your reward for successfully navigating their online store and deciphering the labels for each SKU!
Spot on! 🤣
well done Shane, i purchased the magene crank/spider power meter based on your review and it has just worked,
now that i have a garmin head unit im looking at power meter for my mtb. i committed sacrilege on my canyon road bike putting shimano mtb clipless pedals on it but only because they are what i used on the trainer and $ ran short.
i think for the mtb pedals will be my choice
My two Type S units have been completely reliable for years. Looking forward to your SRM PM9 review.
Love my NGEco on my Cannondale Scalpel. Change the battery once a year and everything is good to go. When I wanted to go to a 30t I had to order a Garbaruk with the spacers machined in. That worked perfectly.
On a road bike I love my Assioma DUO pedals, on both my cyclocross and mountain bikes I have spider based powermeters (Magene PES P505 Base and Sigeyi AXO 8-bolt for Shimano XTR cranks respectively).
For the cyclocross bike the spider seemed like the best option - by quite some margin the cheapest total power (after last year's injury I have fairly inbalanced legs, so InPeak single sided crank got to go) and since I use that bike also as a gravel bike and winter road bike, I sometimes swap the pedals between road (Xpedo Thrust NXS to have the same pedal bodies as the Assiomas) and SPD. Unscrewing one set of pedals and screwing in another one is way more convenient and also cheaper than say swapping the bodies on Garmin Rally.
For the mountain bike I bought the Sigeyi long before the Assioma Pro MX were released. It's still less expensive (I bought quite cheaply an XT chainring second hand that someone just took of a brand new bike due to swapping to a different size; it already had the bolts required, so in addition to the meter, I just had to get a Torx T15 bit with the hole) and Sigeyi app is pretty good. However, I've had one occassion when I thought it might be broken, but the seller has since shut its bussines. If I were buying a MTB powermeter today, I would 100 % go for the Assioma Pro MX instead, mainly for the future-proofing (compatibility independant on drivetrain), but also for the warranty.
I've had this discussion with two friends and they were sceptical about the powermeter pedals durability (or should I say longevity) compared to a different meter and standard pedals. Neither of them knew though, that the electronics is just inside the spindle or in a pod on the spindle and that in case the pedals wear out, they can just buy new pedal bodies and that those are (in case of Favero at least) much cheaper than buying a set of new say Shimano XTR or Ultegra pedals.
Love my ngeco. The only issue i have was that firmware updates are painful.
I have a power2max first generation power meter on my road bike for many years - works absolutely fine, not one single problem in all the years. And battery life is literally years, if I remember correctly it‘s only the third battery I put in this year
So it seems like its only a small weight penalty to run pedals in comparison. Great video. Thanks as always.
Thanks for another gratis review.
Any plans for reviewing the rotor inspider for mtb?
If I can get a hold of one.
I have a p2max on my trek Madone road bike and I love it. I had Durace it had to buy a rotor brand crank. Their support team helped me figure out that I needed that crank and I bought it from them
I did loose the rubber cover for the battery and bought 2 so I have one as a spare.
I did have the battery mount on my original power2max on break and I got a replacement entire new power2max spider at a discount
Despite that the unit is trouble free. I never use the app
My 2 P2M spiders have been great, and theyre really low profile on the frame side, so they can fit a nice chainline as well.
had P2M for years since 2016 on my road bike , was working without a single failure, now running assioma pedals on the TT&roadbike, I'm thinking of getting a new one NGECO for my gravel bike since pedals seem to risky due to more "contact" with the environment.... thx!
The idea of a spider powermeter sounds good but I you are used to direct mount chainrings on the MTB, the old chainring bolts feel like a big step backwards.
I enjoy my P2M power meters. I'm glad to see a little reduction in the USD price. I do find the dual power and accuracy "upgrades" a bit gimmicky. I agree the app is awful. I have lost a battery door, and P2M sent a new one for a slightly high price.
Because they are a spider type, sorting out what fits on what "boost, superboost, CL55" fits what, where, when is a bit of a pain. I tried a SRAM spindle style as an alternative. It has been a dumpster fire, and it has made me want another P2M again. Hopefully a 55mm chain line version will be along soon.
It is working with ovals also without any problem (Osym, RotorQXL, etc), as the previous generations also worked (TypeS or Classic, but those overmeasured the power a bit with Qsym due to the AAV algorhythm, but everything else what worked with ovals in that time overmeasured the power due to the used average angle velocity calculation)
Excellent. This needs to be a LOT clearer on the website.
Power2Max makes the best quality and most cost effective powermeters in the world. Totally trouble free, no manual calibrations or smth. Temperature and auto calibrating system, battery lasts a year or even more.
Most people who have them love them.
Sounds almost as good as a Quarq.
@@petersouthernboy6327 much better, the Quarq is a 10+ years old design with old parts...
I loved my Type-S so much that I also bought an NGeco for my mountain bike last year. I'm very happy with the product, except for the app, but that was just a one-time registration and I haven't touched it since.
Regarding pedal strikes, I don't fully agree. The power sustained in a pedal strike isn't really absorbed by the spider. It goes into the frame, making the power2max less prone to damage.
I asked P2M about what the difference is with the TC+ vs TC temperature compensation. With the TC+ the temperature curve of the individual power meter is measured and put in the meter. With TC it is just a generic temperature curve.
I have a P2M on my road bike. It just works.
the active temp comp. is the same in both units since a few years (in the very beginning there was difference between the firmwares/and the operation/ of the 2 models but that era is over), the NG or the +1% upgrade for the NGEco gets a dynamic bench torque calibration where these calibrated for extra accurate. (yes, at 200-300W +- 1-2w difference is hardly recognized as simple home user even with dual/triple recordings, but this bench calibrate it at 900W within 2-3watts (100,200,300,400,500 and 900, with validation round also). This is the "+" after the TC symbol. this NG series have much smarter strain gauges than the TypeS or the Classic, those were very sensitive (bigger offset drift) for sudden temp change (and the firmware compensate it just slowly more or less, but the best was a coasting where the unit did an auto-zeroing), the NG series can handle it by hardware without any offset drift.
Regarding the battery compartment rubber cover. I've had the worst of bad luck with it. I have lost the rubber cover, but upon inspection it turned out, that I have broken and lost one of the plastic tabs that are holding it. What are the odds of something like that happening during a ride? :) Now I am holding the rubbber cover with a zip tie that is mounted through two adjacent chainring bolts (praise the good old 104 BCD). Of course there is no P2M fault in it - just my bad luck with a rock shot at the powermeter probably.
I also used one on the road and was super happy with it. It had to go, as I switched to SRAM AXS and P2M is not available with 8-bolt interface.
I have to take back my comments re it not working on my BMX, after a bit of try this and that with P2M support I managed to get it reliably giving power data on BMX gate starts. Needed to enable trial mode, then torque, and power in torque in the app settings. Once this was done it seemed to get each gate start reliably, as well as bursts or pedaling around the track consistently. Unfortunately when the trial has run out I will need to spend another 100 eros to turn my $1200 paperweight back into a working (for BMX) powermeter.
Thanks for the follow-up on this one!
i need one for my New CX bike.
🎉
You don't need a speed sensor with it, do you. Just asking a question
I was considering them for my SRAM drivetrain but unfortunately they don't offer one for SRAM 8 bolt. Is a patent by SRAM blocking them? I think so.
I'd love you to review the XX Quarq. Feels like mine has way less smoothing than my P2M on my other MTB. So intriguing
there is no power smoothing in the NGs :) it is the most jagged what i tested (the old TypeS were smoother, but that has AAV algorhythm, this NG series has IAV like the Assiomas). The Quarq has very old (~10+ years old electronics, there is no innovation, no new type strain gauges, nothing, even the new AXS also is an ancient old) , same design as the P2M TypeS what is released in 2014..., just BT added with a different comm. chip.
I have some NG’s as well. Very good on the road. Generally I’ve noticed my type-s reads lower on technical rough mtb terrain than my XX1 DZero. The DZero reading closer to my road watts off road. Very interesting. As for tech, I’d give this a watch:
m.ruclips.net/video/zao3eTXEdAM/видео.html&pp=ygUcZXZlcnkgcG93ZXIgbWV0ZXIgaXMgYSBxdWFycQ%3D%3D
@@Justin14100 because lots of older Quarq reads the power higher with 3-5% minimum (some of it 10-15%, bad factory calibration... it is common problem with them, and you need to do static weight calibration, GPLame already made a video about it). Did you do do dual measuring? comparing to road measurement is non relevant, different sit position, different power output by legs even measuring with 2 totally same powermeter.
When I first noticed it which was when it was new 2 years ago I ran them each on a trainer and it actually read 1w lower VS power2max on my wahoo. They read the same on non technical terrain like a road. Rough technical my power2max always felt like it read low when doing max efforts vs the road. The quarq reads closer to my potential. (I have over 10 years of power data over 8 different power meters).
@@Justin14100 "over 8 different power meters" it is the worst scenario :) , if you have more powermeters on bikes, those should be the same (i have 3 P2M NGs) and the best all should be weight calibrated (or calibrated with a torque bench). single-sided powermeters are also not relevant for comparisons. but the best if you have always an (weight calibrated) Assioma Duo as a secondary powermeter on the bike, that gives you real validation about the primary source's data, telling that a powermeter is low or high by feeling is not a scientific (and never true, except if the difference is 50w or more :D but that is a really bad thing... )
totally new app development is in progress, there is internal beta already, be patient :)
Roll it out ASAP! 👌🏼
I would think that durability would be another benefit of a spider-based powermeter. The only reason I haven't gone to the Assiomas is because I ride at least 20,000 km / year, and from what I've seen, the Assioma bearings / pedal bodies don't last as long as the Ultegra pedals I currently use. Aside from bearings / pedal bodies, I'd like to know if the Assioma power accuracy is as good after 75,000 km as P2M / Quarq.
If you use the Assioma Shi(mano) pedals, your pedal bodies *are* the Shimano pedal bodies. Having said that, I use the Favero Look system since they came out, and havent had to replace them. I ride only about 6000/year on those pedals though.
I think its importan to note that P2M is the only power meter that fits track (144bcd) chainrings. And it has a 42mm chainline so if youre running 1x you can get a perfect chainline on a road bike.
Power meter pedal downside: locks you into one pedal system. Flats for life! :)
I've never really heard any mention of power meters and compatibility with flat pedals. Are there technical reasons why flats can't be used (or are unacceptably inaccurate) with the current mtb power meter options? Thanks.
@@davidratajack1558 I don't know if there's a problem with power meter flat pedals, but I have a quark/sram spindle power meter that I use with flat pedals. I don't see how a power meter there, like the power2max, would be impacted by pedal choice.
@@donbarnard82 Thanks for your thoughts, Don. I'm also a fatbiker, which often complicates things (compatible bottom brackets/spindle lengths, chainlines, etc.)...🙄
@@davidratajack1558 What I have mounts to the chain rings. It doesn't really involve the spindle changing or anything, but it does need to be compatible with the chain rings and how they are mounted to the spindle. Another option would be a crank based power meter, I suppose.
@@donbarnard82 ...and which brand is that, Don (I'm on a Raceface Cinch system)? Do you find that in flats, due to the "dead-spot" in the upper portion of the pedal stroke, you need to "smooth" the watt display more than one might need to do clipped in? Maybe use a 3-second average? On the other hand, maybe that's not really an issue.
I cannot get my p2m registered on the alp
Is this registration/activation thing a new requirement? I have three P2M NGeco spiders in use, bought first one five years ago the latest about six months ago. I've never had to deal with activation or the P2M app.
The two NG Eco spiders I have required it.
no, it is already exists since january 2017. with the very 1st units you had to make a photo about the SN and send it via webpage and the support registered it. (they sell/sold bike with non-activated powermeters , Cannondales for example , and the non-activated unit only measured and transferred the cadence). Later they put a red sticker with unique token code onto the spider and the 1st customer had to write this code manually on the P2M NG webpage. This activation/deactivation is a good thing, because you can deactivate your unit if the bike is stolen and the "new" user if want to upgrade it or just check with the app, it will be deactivated immediately (ok, it doesnt help on the poor original user...) if somebody sells it on second-hand market, he should remove/deactivate first from his account and the new owner will add/reactive to his own account. if it doesnt happen, the new owner cant upgrade or update his used NG (have to ask the previous owner to deactive it or contact to the support and they remove and reactive by themself after a photo evidence)
Shane I’m interested to see if you have ever had power discrepancies with the Assioma duo pedals when doing a lot of fast start/stop efforts that would happen in a criterium. Recently I’ve noticed Strava average power being significantly different than Garmin average power, and from what I gather it is from the second by second power data having gaps that Garmin fills in but Strava does not. I believe Garmin uses the total accumulated power column in the fit file while Strava adds the reported power for each second. Some other online users report the same issue and I can’t seem to find a fix.
A few things come to mind - Start/stop riding is always problematic when the recording interval is 1Hz. There's also a delay in cadence detection for meters that use accelerometers (vs magnets) which can also result in missed data. Not a lot, but over time it'll add up. In regard to Garmin Connect vs Strava - they'll both be doing their own thing with averaging the data. The only solution I've seen posted for this is to pick one platform and use that as your reference to compare activities.
what is the "0 power averaging" setting in your Garmin unit? the 0/zero must be included in the power avg (the Strava includes it automatically so the Strava avg power always less in this case comparing the obviously fake Garmin "non-zero" average power), the 0 excluded setting is a totally idiot thing (now the include is the default in the Garmins too, at least in the x40 series, there was a period when the exclude was the default in the settings.., in x30s for sure) .
@@andraslukoviczki519 it is set to include zeros for power averaging and exclude zeros for cadence.
@@LMGSounds in this case it should be the same without any difference . can you share a FIT file of a crit? if you need i can give you an email address.
From my > 1year experience with their 2x: battery lasts ~ 10 months, mechanical and electronic parts are well made. Paid features - up to you. However, they have a problem with the bolts for the small ring. Even if tightening with a torque wrench. And there is no way to replace them.
4iiii PMs for the MTB?
Not sure. I honestly haven’t looked. I’m still testing their gravel GRX option.
I guess my priorities to choose between pedal vs spider don't align with most people, considering you don't even mention it.
Biggest Pedal based power meter con for me was the stack height.
MTB: XTR is the thinnest pedal I can find.
Road: Speedplay. Or even Dura-ace is still thinner than the thinnest power meter pedals.
So I use spider-based PM just so that I can use pedals that are thinner than those power meter pedal options.
Good point for chunky monkeys like the Rally XC. The SRM X-Power, Look SPD, and Pro MX are only a few mm higher than non power SPD.
Good point, however, aren't Wahoo Speedplay Powrlink Zero the same dimensions as regular Speedplay pedals?
@@jeskli11 No. It is 2mm taller than non-power version.
The app is awful, but the hardware has been solid for two years now on my gravel bike. It's been through some less than ideal conditions as welll. Numbers don't raise any eyebrows when compared to my Quarq on the road bike, but no way for me to compare directly.
Huge con for pedals PM is easy way to stole them from the bike. If you left your bike somewhere for longer time, even on bike rack on car... Maybe if you could somehow remotly track them via app... I am thinking about them (assiomas) because i have busted my stages crank PM after four years...
The XTR crank comes off with just an 8mm hex wrench. I'd be taking that with the pedals attached! 🥷🏻
@@gplama pedals go with any type of clamp wrench... even with pliers... and think my left sided stages is more tamper proof. The best pro assiomas are the ability to change them between bikes. I can attach them even to ebike!
The is assioma MTB pedals on the market, why somebody would buy power2max instead of assioma ?
when you will have a defected Assioma after 2ys warranty, you will know it! If you buy the duo, the chance is 2x higher to get dead battery or electronics (many friends of mine had this issue with Assioma without any fall or crash, simple just gone wrong) . and after all, it will be more expensive. The P2M's failure rate is almost 0, if you check the aftermarket pages, you can find tons of 10+ys old P2M Classic with flawless operation for sale (and with heavy use). You wont find too many such an old pedals ... :D
Sounds like Raven
Ohhh... 🦅🤣
Tried this one on my BMX (with SRAM MTB Cranks), no good, maybe it is a bad one, but mine just keeps falling asleep and misses about 60% of my gate starts, I don't think it is suitable for this purpose, at this point unless P2M come back with a replacement or some other firmware update (Tried a beta one as suggested by their customer support for a slight improvement) it is a waste of $1200AUD.
Getting data immediately from stationary starts is tricky. iirc you'll need a meter that uses magnets for cadence to get the best results. And a meter that doesn't enter sleep mode quickly.
after 2 mins inactivity the unit goes to sleep automatically by default (maybe it will change in the future for the simple users also, i can modify this inactivity time for any value but i am "unique" :D) , so in the start , you need to rotate the crank at least 1min before the launch. (but with BMX which is same as a "fixie", hard to rotate without wheel movement. or can it do freewheeling?
@@andraslukoviczki519 Can do freewheeling. Still working with p2m to try to figure a solution. Will try your suggestion though. The mentioned they are developing a product that would suit BMX so that might be the other option, depends if they would offer a trade up.
Well, with some help from P2M I managed to get this to work. Going to cost me another $100euros to get torque enabled, but at least it is not going to be a $1200 paperweight.
Love the power meter itself, but at least on iOS, the app is hot garbage and doesn't even connect to my PM.