The Blackbird and evolution of colonial stealth tech | Battlestar galactica lore
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- Опубликовано: 16 июл 2024
- Hello hello, today, we talk about a topic suggested by my audience at large, colonial stealth ships and more specifically the blackbird. While there isn't enough info to flesh out a full video on the ship itself, or any of the other multitude stealth ships we see in the series, I figured that putting it all together alongside dradis would be a good idea.
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0:00 Intro
1:25 Dradis
3:39 Orion class
5:50 Osiris
8:40 Stealth star
11:00 Blackbird
17:14 Outro 
Развлечения
They never mentioned in that episode, but Tyrol could have been subconsciously drawing from his "other" knowledge.
Extremely good point that was never brought up, a very insightful observation.
That was my exact first thought. Bang on brother.
One thing about Tyrol and "Laura" , she was made from scrapped parts. Too bad Lee wrecked her.
I was thinking the same thing. He's a Cylon, but didn't know it at the time, so maybe he was drawing on knowledge buried deep in his mind, knowledge of either the Cylon's systems or maybe the Cylon's cracked stealth a long time ago, but realized it had little use to them at the time. So, basically, Tyrol knew what he didn't know that he knew, you know.
@@eugeneedens4525 It's a stretch. Galen was trying to give "Laura" some kind of skin. In a sense because of the ability aboard Pegasus to rebuild Vipers. Tyrol wanted to in some ways do the same for Galactica in case she ever ran into the same kind of trouble.
Apollo gets the Blackbird destroyed....then......to top it off....the Pegasus ...nice job Apollo :)
Who needs the Cylons when you have the idiot Captain 'Appolo'!
6:30 Amazing how the designer took a standard Battlestar - a ship that is already heavily based on a submarine - and made it look even MORE like a submarine.
I thought it was based on a world war II era aircraft carrier. The Pegasus looks like a 1980s-style aircraft carrier.
You were off by one slight issue. The Blackbird did carry missiles in one mission. The mission to kill the Cylon rebirth ship.
That feels like splitting hairs. B-25 didn’t take off from aircraft carriers either yet we have a couple that did. Generalizations aren’t disproven by single exceptions
Edit: wrong bomber type
@@albusvoltavern4500
B25 actually
@@albusvoltavern4500I mean if I remember correctly it went on a total of 2 actual missions and half the time it was armed(That we know of)
True, but since the missile was non-nuclear I dont think it did much to set off Cylon DRADIS.
@@albusvoltavern4500 I believe he is referring to the time we first bombed Tokyo in WWII.
I got to six shots of Souju before I forgot to keep counting "DRaDis." I've now had 8 shots. Gods bless the Blackbird. Gods bless Colonial Fleet.
I've been saying for years that the Valk was the reason the Cylons "found" the Stealthstar; glad to hear I'm not the only one.
I have a better theory. Since this one is incomplete and in fact, space is so large and that armistice line so long (in galactic scale) that a Battlestar is a mere spec, based on the like the Cylons drew in space. If you want to read my theory, I just posted it so it should be near the top.
The blackbird is a great looking ship considering it was built from scraps in a cave, you forgot to mention that its not only covered with stealth plates, it also has several metric f*** tons of plot armour
As a grease aircraft mechanic, the most realistic part of the show is how black bird is made lol 😂
With the resource restrictions, it struck me as being rather like the development of the RAF's Mosquito.
Galen was a genius, pure and simple! He created the Blackbird, and not only simplified it's design, he gave the ship FTL capability. An achievement for a ship that small carrying an FTL drive. Up to that point, only Cylon Raiders had that ability in their own ships. But the Blackbird remains the only Colonial fighter to ever carry FTL. It was a shame it couldn't be replicated and added to the Viper MKVII.
Anything putting off an engine exhaust plume or even significant heat in the black of space may as well be A signal buoy. RADAR, LIDAR, and IRST would likely work even better in space.
Humans have a tendency to assume there is ONE answer to something when usually there are multiple factors combined. Looking at the comments, I saw several distinct explanations for why Tyrol's stealth ship worked, and I think the best explanation is that it is ALL of these:
- he made it out of debris, Dradis is designed to filter out debris
- the Cylons fully infiltrated everything humanity had, they knew all possible ship signatures, so they were only looking for those (and they didn't believe the humans could make a new design)
- it is low tech and Dradis is more sensitive to high tech; they wouldn't be looking for low tech because they don't view low tech as a threat
- Tyrol is a Cylon, he unknowingly accessed knowledge humans didn't have
None of these on their own feels like a good explanation, but all together they feel like a good summation of how such an advanced tracking system could miss something so obvious.
That moment when this vid randomly shows up in your feed, you click on it and check out the over vids… and immediately subscribe after adding like 20 vids to watch later cus they look amazing
The point of stealth is not invisibility, it is officially called low observable. If reduces the effective range of enemy sensors. So if trying to penetrate a enemy line of battle, you can weave through the sensors, there by forcing them to adopt closer formations, reducing their coverage.
Another thing to consider, Colonials ships are generally required to re-enter a atmosphere. That is a HUGE design constraint on ship design. A carbon fiber panel over an aluminum frame is not going to survive a re-entry into atmo like whatever Vipers are made out of. It is the equivalent to a balsa wood and fabric drone.
Not a lecture on stealth tech (I'm certainly not qualified to give one!) but there was a massive amount of information in the public domain regarding stealth in the mid to late 90s, the F117 was early 80s after all. Basically "Get the radar return to go somewhere else" was the original concept. There was one aspect they missed that's relevant for space though - thermal signature. Might be why some of the stealth vessels have a limited time as they're internally sinking the heat but it was rather glossed over.
Nice work though, you didn't have a great deal to work with but still fun to watch :)
saw one person mention it. His uh... cylon relations let's call it may have played a part in it. Also the chief is just a legendary badass so there's that.
For the algorithm.
So say we all!
So say we all!
SOOOOOO saaaaay wee alllllllllllll!
@Science Insanity & my fellow BSG geek family - I do have a theory why I think the Stealthstar was shot down that's darker but can explain that short scene better. In essence, the craft that shot at it was not Cylon but Colonial. Perhaps, another Stealthstar or Raptor. The reason why is because the Colonial Brass, at least some of them, were tired of waiting for the Cylons to reappear and were arrogant enough to think that their 120 Battlestars were sufficient to defend all of Colonial space. Remember, that space is HUGE and a fictional red large that they can't cross is also massive. It doesn't matter the size of the Battlestar, even the Pegasus is merely a spec in the Planetary and Galactic scale. Thus, the Colonial military were interested to see if the Cylons were even looking and if they were even there. They had no idea if the Cylons had already left never to return leaving an arbitrary line as a joke or were actually there in the same or larger numbers. And this is what they wanted to know. Thus, they needed a commander who would "make noise" near the border to measure the response time of the Cylons. No Commander in their right mind would do this purposefully because that would start a war, thus they had to trick one. This is why they chose Adama, because he was old, close to retirement, and his career was expendable ad they saw it. Only the top brass knew exactly where and when the Valkyrie would be AND only they knew that Adama would be sending a Stealthstar over the line. And remember, Cylon Raiders ALWAYS fly in pairs, never alone. Everytime we see them they're in pairs. Getting back to the mission, I think the top brass wanted Adama to "fail" and there were in fact two secret missions occuring simultaneously.The 2nd secret mission was to jump into the system immediately next to the Stealthstar, disable it and then jump away. This is why whatever shot at Bulldog was a single unknown dradis signal that miraculously jumped on top of Bulldog (in weapons range) and then jumped away. Space is so incredibly large that the chances of jumping next to a Stealthctaft, in weapons range, while it's facing away from you is HIGHLY improbable. Almost impossible, which is why it's more likely that what happened was deliberate. Plus, with the Stealthstar immediately disabled, any Raider could have easily destroyed the vessel right after the first hit so why stop and jump away? It's not like the Stealthstar had any allies that could defend it before being destroyed. But for whatever reason the unknown signal did jump away before it could be identified. And then just a few moments later, a pair of unknown signals showed up on Dradis. A PAIR! If the first signal was a Raider then why didn't it transmit it's spacial coordinates to its friends after jumping away so when more Cylons showed up they would jump in next to the disabled craft and immediately destroy it? But that didn't happen. Instead, the pair of Raiders jumped in a minute out from Bulldog's location. These were the Raiders that would eventually capture Bulldog and they behaved just like the Raiders we see for the rest of the series. Remember the mini-series when the non-FTL capable civilian fleet was destroyed? Raiders jumped in but NOT next to civilian crafts (although they knew their exact spatial coordinates) but at least 30 seconds to a minute out. Thus, the same pattern that we see in the flashback. Lastly, when Adama jumped back and reported his findings the Admiralty would have had everything they wanted, which included the data from Cylon response time, proof that the Colonial Stealthstar was not detected crossing the armistice line, AND they sent the only Commanding officer that could expose them into an early retirement. Perfectly tying up loose ends and creating a gullible scapegoat if anything we're to happen and they were threatened with exposure. And that's it, the perfect plan to test out new tech, get valuable information on your enemy, AND keep your plan hidden from the public and most likely the Civilian Government. I highly doubt that the President of the Colonies even knew about most of the secret colonial military missions.
14:45 Hey Mythbusters disproved a Bull in a China shop.
Theres the idea that a person may be to smart for their own good. A lot of our modern break throughs have been made by accidents or some random joe blow in their garage. Necessity is the mother of Innovation/invention.
Makes my day when you upload a bsg video, the only channel i know of on RUclips that does battlestar stuff. So anyway, thanks and please do more of it
The Blackbird was more like something the Rebels would whip up in Star Wars. In fact the original genesis of the A-wing was just that.
It's basically E-Wing Starfighter + Stealth
IIRC in that miniseries, the inside of the Osiris showed everyone were sweaty like it was hot on board. Probably a result of keeping its heat insulated inside the ship to reduce emissions via IR/heat.
Didn't you know? David is a hidden Cylon model. We are everywhere. Raise a glass to the glorious bastard that is Chief Tyrol!
Could it also be a case where the equipment was so good at detecting what it knew that it was completely stumped with something new?
Lore guys please inform me. 👍
Excellent video. I didn't know this about Battlestar Galactica lore.
Alright! A new Science Insanity video, woot woot!
I agree with your theory about how the stealthstar was spotted.
Perfect episode!!
your conspiracy for the loss of the stealth star does fit really well with the drawbacks of modern stealth systems, which is their support units aren't also stealthy. Oh your fighters and bombers are stealthy and we can't hit them? well we'll just shoot down your tankers, AWACS, your transports carrying spare parts and flatten your airfields as well. which is why alot of new concepts of larger aircrafts are implementing some considerations for low observability as well.
I share'eth not thine own Space Shuckles upon thee who forget'eth the BLACKBIRD!!!
Another thing with the Stealthstar mission is that Colonial military was already likely compromised, the Cylons could already have been aware of the mission and aware of the specs of the Stealthstar. Not only would they know where to look, but what to look for. The seekers on the missiles and the dradis on the raider could have been modified to pick out the Stealthstar.
100% comporomised tigh was on the valk at the time
Final draidus count: 24
Don't drink and draidus.
I'll probably hear 'draidus' in my dreams tonight.
DRAIDUS
The reason that the 'Chief' could make the blackbird work when the entire Colonial R&D department couldn't from the start of the first Cylon war to 'the fall' was because he wasn't a complete homo sapien rather he was part homo sapien and part toaster. He was a Cylon from the 13th colony of Kobol!
I like Rico making a guest appearance XD
not very often you see a vid that says Zero Views
a video so stealthy that it evades the algorithm sensor
Blackbird I think got away in it's missions due to it being kind of less detectable than a normal ship that size, Cylons likely did not but much thought into it, maybe thinking it's space debris or some random Contact from space you get. Then during the missile to hit the resurrection ship, the cylons likely where too focused and blind sighted on the two battlestars and Vipers/Raptors attacking to bother think about looking for a stealth ship. Let's not forget now the Cylons are very flawed especially when certain organic cylons are at at the helm.
Nice stuff.
Radar sees right angles and horizontal lines. Thats why you won't see either on a stealth fighter. Lots of 45 degree angles.
Thumbs up well done.
or this dradis has the function of filtering out obvious space debris. And since the blackbird is made of trash, he perceives it as a piece of trash)
I love BSG, and I wish it was as expansive as stargate or better yet, star-trek in the amount of seasons. the blackbird was a damn cool concept, but just the Engine Nasels alone would have a massive radar return :P there's a few design choices on it that, just on a glanse wouldn't work for stealth. but it's a sci-fi show set a few hundred thousand years in the past, well, atleast for the remake, don't remember what the original show was tbh. but I would genuinely love to see a remake of the 2003 BSG and add 20-30 seasons on top to see how far they could go with it. if Only I had the money to fund it myself I absolutely would.
Considering the amount of time that it took to prepare for the attack, plus the fact that the Final Five had already been exiled to the Colonies, it's safe to say that the Cylons would have attacked even if they hadn't discovered Bulldog during the Valkyrie's scouting mission
3:10 Hey that's one of my renders! Haha!
so the Blackbird was so good at stealth because the Cylons were looking for high tech when it in fact had little to NO tech.
If I remember correctly, they wrote the blackbird episodes first and later back tracked for the rest.
4:25 I hate to do this but ACTUALLY the opposite is true. It is easier to detect a potential stealth threat than to actually track the target. Funny note, The B2 Stealth Bomber can be detected by current Russian and Chinese radars. I say detect because it depends on the distance. The radar of the S-300 once close enough can detect the B2, F22, or F35. However, what it can't do is actually track the target until it gets much closer and then can only hold the track for short periods of time. But even a shot from a S-300 which is tracing is not guaranteed as the missiles radar also has a hard time detecting and tracking as much lower power than S-300 base radar. So respectfully disagree as in the real world your statement is reversed.
The main takeaway regarding stealth is that all it really does is reduce detection range, fundamentally speaking that's really all it does.
Case in point, stealth ALCM's have been shown to reduce the detection window by SHORAD X-band RADARs to about 1/3 of the range at which they would detect a regular aircraft. When an active RADAR homing missile is fired, sure its own onboard RADAR is much much weaker than the one used by the command post/launch vehicle, but for most of its flight it is also command-guided to its target, or in the case of many air-to-air RADAR-guided missiles they operate intertially (not an optimal solution against maneuvering aircraft depending on circumstances).
ONCE the missile is within a much closer range of the target, the onboard RADAR seeker will activate, and the effectiveness of the tracker will be much greater than it otherwise would have been due to the proximity to the target - it's close enough that its lower output/resolution doesn't matter. Hell, even an optical or IR seeker could substitute here if power constraints are that limiting.
Blackbird is cool and all, but what about the SA-23E Starfury?
Would’ve loved to fly one of these in BSGO
WipEout is becoming real.
My second bottle of Tequila of the day says… Wasn’t the Chief a Stealth Cylon?
DRAYBIZ…er…
Thank f*ck I only drank a sip of beer for each Dradis mention.
Chief was also Cylon and did not know. But since theory crafting probably subconsciously still had access to memories and technical capabilities without really knowing it.
Do a video on the Battlestar Nova
The Cheif was a Cylon not a human so maybe unwittingly used cylon tech i n the ship?
I always thought it stood for Data Detection Radar Integrated Sensor
I thought that Adama was the one who shot down (so to speak) the Stealthstar...? HE shot it down when the Cylons showed up...so they couldn't find it intact and dismante the tech...but also so that the Cylons couldn't find it and use it at as a pretense for war (as if they needed one.) That is why he felt *guilty* about it.
He also felt far more guilty because he felt like he failed and they used it as an excuse for war anyhow.
I beg to differ when you say you can't shoot main guns at something you saw on draidus because it gives you the 3D position in space where the ship is. Missile lock yeah you couldn't do that
There's also possibility that Cylons knew about the Stealthstar because there was a sleeper agend onboard of Valkyrie.
If you forgot about it, the stealth tech worked
Surely Chief Tyrol being a Cylon tech genius who re-discovered reincarnation in a past life probably played a factor? The inherent skills he had in tech as a final five Cylon must've come into it?
This guy: carbon shouldn’t be enough to hide it from DRADIS.
Or maybe it is enough and you’re just vastly overestimating DRADIS.
Of course it was a viper. They designed it as a fighter but had to adapt the materials used which made it stealthy.
So in the end the Tyrol used the limitations of the project to succeed.
LOL! Lots of Davids? In second grade, there were 4 other Davids in my class, PLUS, 3 or 4 more Davids in the class across the hall. And yes, my name is David.😂
Try being called Smith in the UK. There are literally millions of us :) Also, one of my names is David. I feel you.
Edit: For clarification, secondary schools over here generally use surname only so "Smith!" was often followed by "Not you! The other Smith! No, not you either! That one!" 😁
@@MrGrimsmith 😂. Lukely for me, I don't have to really worry about it now a days. Though you have my sympathy.
@@davidnemoseck9007 Oh that's definitely not an issue for me. I hit the half century beginning of next year. Someone tries to call me "Smith" nowadays the least they're going to get is a stern look. Raised eyebrow if they're being particularly heinous :D
@@MrGrimsmith Ugh. Don't remind me. Not as old as you, but getting close to that age myself. Where has the time gone? Weren't we all not in grade school yesterday? 😅
Counted 24 Dradis after the sentence... uncertain if I missed any.
Who detects the detection system? This guy.
13:16 wizards in red?
VEWY ANGWY TOASTAH AWMAWDAW!!!
Most engineering Chiefs are just short of genius or mad it's hard to tell the difference, you could give one some popsicle sticks a squirrel in a rubber band and they would build you an engine out of it and it's measurement of design would be so precise it would make the ancient Egyptians weep for their imprecise placements of the pyramids I have nothing but respect for them and their abilities, I am sure you meant no disrespect but engineers can take the most worthless junk and turn it into something that you would weep to observe it's abject beauty and efficiency.🇺🇦
hey, what's the name of the song you use in the outro?
"Labour of love" from the game 'HardspaceShipbreaker'
@@scienceinsanity6927 thanks
I was amazing you didn't say wood.
Given our military history.
im aboot to take a guess here. But you are Canadian?
Your analysis is dead on. Current stealth tech has gone the route of incorporating adaptive camouflage as well. As far as the Osiris Class goes would have been better with incorporating enviro suits for the crew during times they were running silent. Heat had to go somewhere rather than light you up like a beacon. That's why it was a *uckn sauna in there. And have a triggered jump drive that's charged before going silent. When shit get real, push the button. No spooling up, just dump the power into the drive (super capacitor), or rapidly in seconds. That's a LOT of energy.
Tie-roll? Who is that?
What if a Valkyrie ship was completely stealth.
If I’m not mistaken, the stealth ships from the expanse were not AMEN RA they were Anubis
Anubis was a ship in the Amun Ra Class of stealth ships.
@@aresthecrazy9335
Ah.
I stand corrected.
I disagree with your stealth star theory at least in part.
The 2 later DRADIS contacts were possibly there because of the battlestar but the first that appears even closer to the line than the S-star and then disappears before the other 2 arrive; its not like the higher ups in the colonies wanted to start a war and had just ordered their own ship to be there..................oh wait....
Sorry not enough DRADIS comments to get a Shetlander bluuttered
RIP to all drinking game participants.
Adama did what he was ordered. It's not his fault commands dumb AF. Look at what they did with the networking computers ffs. Adama knew what was up.
Akctualyy.....nah I won't
I'm personally in favor of the theory that an embedded cylon skinjob was the one to get the ball going on the mission at the Armistice Line.
Regarding the Blackbird, she was an attempt to capitalize on a popular "advanced" technology at the time of production. She was also magic incarnate whos kryptonite was Lee Adamma.
Stealth is brutally simple. And that's why it stumped the engineers.
I have the answer to all your misgivings about chief Tyroles.
Jesus can you mispronounce the chiefs name a few more times please.
Everything worked out because……plot armor. Nuf said.
Nope. She was NOT "Starbuck" Hell no. Not. Nyet. When she came out chomping on that cigar and doing manly things that the REAL Starbuck would do, I turned the crap off. I never watched and I never will. NOT Starbuck. Ever.
Ok