Yeah I spend signifcant amounts of time working in a hangar with an F-104 every week and yeah... I had the same thought, although the viper wings are very downswept...
One thing you should have noticed is that due to most of the mass being in the rear of the vehicle the maneuvering thrusters in the nose gives the Viper the leverage needed to literally turn on a dime in combat.
Small quibble, but BSG: Deadlock is not what introduced the Viper mk.1 to the RDM remake timeline. In the very first part of the Miniseries, there is a Viper mk.1 on display in the museum aboard Galactica. It was either non-functional or deemed too outdated to be reactivated like the mk.2s from the museum were, so it was never seen again in the series. But the point is, the Mk.1 was ALWAYS meant to be a part of the re-make's lore as an older ship.
I think it was used at the battle of the colony when the vipers are flying over grand old lady there a viper that looks way too different from the mk2 and mk VII
I assumed they lacked the parts for it and when they got the other battlestar in the fleet it didnt make sense to make more or parts when they coukd crank out the fancier higher end ones, unless it was like significantly cheaper but granted at that point it might be better to have a better fighter given the limited number of pilots, althoigh the idea of them cranking out MK1s and putting civilians from the fleet in the cockpits is an amuseing idea
If you're ever having a bad day, just be thankful you're not strapped to a fragile rocketship, yetted out into the depths of space through the Holy Wall of Flak (blessed be it's name) at Mach Fuck by an electromagnetic catapult into an oncoming wall of densely packed and extremely angry ass-grabbing robots, and expected to just make it work.
Must feel like an actual fucking miracle when a viper jock lands after a mission. I'd be kissing the deck every time thanking the lords I didn't get turned into jello.
18:56 If you think that is bad, I suggest reading about the debacle that was the Mk.14 torpedo used by the USN in the opening stages of the Pacific Campaign.
yet another great episode guys, but i am a little disappointed that the "blackbird" wasnt mentioned, although to be fair, its status as a "Viper" is debatable...
The Battle for New Caprica was visually stunning, but tactically and strategically a disaster. Bill Adama made the calculated decision to sacrifice Galactica and Save Pegasus because Pegasus had all the manufacturing and logistics equipment to be truly self sufficient. Her foundries could not only produce replacement ships, but spare parts for other ships in the fleet. Her library contained schematics and technical readouts for so much equipment and was basically a how to build/fix for dummies. Given enough time, I wager Pegasus could begin building corvettes or other small capital ships by sealing one of her four flight decks and using it as a drydock. She has the manufacturing facilities to make components, and the space to assemble them. Lee Adama wanted to save his father. I understand this. But he should have let the Galactica go down and instead evacuate the Admiral and Galactica's crew to the Pegasus. By throwing away Pegasus, he threw away a more powerful combatant and a major logistical resource. In a modern Navy, disobaying direct orders to engage in that kind of unfavorable trade for personal reasons would see you stripped of command at best and drummed out of the navy at worst.
With all this thing about New Caprica and "losing Pegasus is bad" only one question: How long will hold remnants of the fleet without Bill Adama and crew of Galactica? It's not looks like crew of Galactica will escape from ship near New Caprica and so... another option to lose not just old ship, but experienced crew and admiral that basically leading all colonial expedition. I dont know for sure how New Caprica battle should ended properly, but with Galactica lost - there will be really big problem with holding colonials together. Like later in the series - we have example of mutiny that was stopped literally only with reputation of Bill Adama. Also losing crew of Galactica is absolute disaster too (and I dont see this moment explored like at all, folks - this is not much people left, especially - professionals that know their job).
EXACTLY. So glad you pointed this out because I never see it mentioned in discussions on losing Pegasus. It wasn't just Vipers, she was a mobile factory. Akin to the STCs from 40k, or carriers from Homeworld if you're familiar with that franchise. That thing could have, given sufficient time, built an entire fleet from raw resources. It'd be tricky building larger ships without a true shipyard or drydock, but with a safe location and dedication I always imagined they might have been able to fabricate the components for things as large as frigates, then assemble them outside the ship. Hell, if New Caprica had never been discovered by Cylons Pegasus could've put together an orbital shipyard, piece by piece, and the Colonials might have been able to start rebuilding some semblance of a navy
Per Wikipedia, the Trinidad overran the malfunctioning torpedo while using evasive maneuvers against other attacks, rather than a flip & return to momma. She survived that oopsie (minus 32 crew) and was partially repaired at a friendly port. Those repairs were insufficient and made her a lame duck when attacked by a force of JU-88 bombers. She took a hit and it was decided to scuttle her rather than attempt to reach home port for full repairs.
Fun fact, it's actually meant to be a callback to the F-16. When the F-16 was coming out initially, pilots felt the design was similar to the Vipers of the original BSG and began to refer to the F-16 as "Vipers" instead of the official name of "Fighting Falcon". When the RDM series came out they wanted an old and new Viper, so they created the Mk 2 as an updated version of the original Vipers and the Mk 7 as the modern Vipers. Because they could update the VII's look, they decided to return the love that F-16 pilots had been sharing for years by modelling the Mk 7 after the F-16.
You mention an air-breathing jet fighter named "Viper". Such a fighter actually exists, it is currently the most produced jet fighter in use by the USAF and much of NATO as well as other customers. It is the F-16 Viper. It got its name when early F-16 pilots in the USAF thought it had some characteristics in common with the Colonial Vipers of the then popular Battlestar Galactica series of the 1970's as well as General Dynamics using "Viper" as the code name for the development project (also named after the BSG fighter). Before being officially named "Fighting Falcon" the name "Viper" had already stuck and to this day F-16 pilots in the USAF continue to call them "Vipers". Much like how the A-10 was officially named "Thunderbolt II" but everyone knows them as "Warthogs", same deal. Also, it goes full circle with the Viper MK VII. The producers in an interview stated that the Viper MK VII's design was based on the F-16. Many elements of the MK VII's design are actually recognizable features from the F-16 Viper (such as the bubble canopy, leading edge extensions, underside intake, and fly-by-wire control system).
Deadlock has some really good ship designs and as for the viper the MKI and prototype MKII in the gamenlook pretty sweet. The BSG game back in the early 2000's also had a bunch of cool viper designs that doesnt get seen very much. The MKII though damn what a fighter.
Deadlock taught me keeping the vipers as guards is a waste as if you set them to attack they will shred the cylon light ships very quickly one after another without me babysitting them.
I think the doctrine kind of works with that. You launch them initially as support and guards, and then plunge them into an opening and let them tear apart light ships.
Honestly, I use them as scouts a lot. Even if they just get sent out to die. If I know where the enemy is, I can nuke it. I'll send them to find all the enemy ships and get rid of their fighters. If they survive that, then they get sent after enemy light ships. Basically, anything for which a nuke would be overkill gets vipers and raptors sent after it.
yep vipers are your main weapon in deadlock... if u have enuff of them and use them correctly they are unbeatable. u might lose 1 squad out of 8 in any engagement.
I watched a series of someone beta testing the game and they were hilariously OP back then. They toned them down but still once the raiders got cleared they could still pretty much just eat an enemy fleet on their own if given enough time
@@jbz4788with one exception, the quintuple cerastes fleet, which nothing short of two Jupiters can take out, because holy crap that "balance" they did on them was painful
Babylon 5's "Star Furies" could intercept missiles and had the advantage of being part of a capital ship's "Defensive Grid.". This grid would comprise on-board weapons systems (traditional guns) and fighters. The grid could augment the ship's defensive weaponry by taking control of Star Furies and adding the fighter's weapons to the craft's defensive and offensive screen. In the B5 universe, Earth Force was the only major power to have perfected and implemented this type of "Defensive Grid." After many years of development, it became one of the most potent weapon systems ever deployed and surpassed the older races in lethality. Few, if any, enemy fighters could penetrate this grid due to its targeting accuracy at short and medium ranges. Fewer capital ships would venture within the 'kill zone' [point blank] of the grid without being crippled if not destroyed due to surprisingly awesome firepower from the Star Furies' rapid-fire plasma canons and medium anti-capital ship weapons, not to mention the railguns and particle beam weapons of Earth Force's warships.
Have you looked at the Hammerhead's from Space Above and Beyond? While filming the prop was being shipped full size and the Russian's thought it was a new fighter that the Airforce had a new design. It was a great looking ship and yes I think it looked better than the Mark 1 Viper even though I love the show.
Those SA-43s were an awesome design that had so much thought and lore put into it, from the combined cycle engines that gave it space and atmosphere capability to the unique launch mechanism that had the ship in vacuum while the canopy slotted upward into a pressurized airlock space for pilot entry. Super cool design. The whole show was full of them, with the space carriers, etc
The Viper/mark drinking game is the true reason Steve has disappeared for awhile; he tried to keep up and gave himself alcohol poisoning. May your liver recover soon!
Holy shit, dude thanks. I wish youtube would send me notifications when people do this. I stumbled on this by accident and I would have felt like shit if this slipped past me. Dude thank you, I appreciate this a lot.
The ^VIPER^ is also my favourite SCI-FI Fighter ship of all time and is even my gaming and discord name. As for the changes from the Mark 2 to the Mark 3, this really does remind me of my favourite Earth based fighter, which is the F/A 18 Hornet. When you look at the difference in size, weapons and capabilities between the early Hornets: A, B, C and D and compare them to the specs of the SUPER HORNET: E, F and G, you can see how similar this looks to the differences between the Mark 2 and the Mark 3.
You missed one... In BSG the Series there was an episode (The Long Patrol) where Starbuck was forced down to a forget penal colony by a 6th Millennium starfighter which looks like a viper with flat wings... the true mark one?
In Freespace 1 & 2, you the player is often tasked to intercept bombers and ordenance to defend capital ships. Iirc in the Wing Commander series you sometimes had this kind of mission too. It's not a trope unique to the Vipers.
I grew up in the 70’s and 80’s and this show was My favorite I had a bunch of the toys and I had the ship from Space 1999 and would play with them all the time.
23:22 That seems like that would be an extremely bad thing for them since the Cylons are great at hacking colonial technology. I feel that there are only a few ways to deal with that. 1. Have as little computers as possible or even being entirely mechanical. 2. Being far more advanced than the Cylons could be. But that would be a tall order if you made them or you're on the backfoot as a species trying to survive. 3. Having such a radical difference in technology that it would take a lot of time for them to figure out your technology if at all.
and 4. Having everything hardwired and no network for the Cylons to hack into, you can't hack into a computer that is not connected to the internet unless you are plugged into said computer with a wire.
The 2003 Battlestar Galactica video game took place in the original 1970s universe during the first cylon war (non-cannonical now) That game had a version of the mkiii viper. Though it was a little bigger than the mkii, the biggest visual difference was that version of the mkiii had a third autocannon mounted above the cockpit.
Hey SCI you know that this (good) video is in the "BATTLETECH LORE" playlist, not the "BATTLESTAR GALACTICA LORE" playlist. It's video no.22, for some reason. Oddly, it's not even the only BSG video erroneously placed in the "BATTLETECH LORE" playlist. Video no.4 in the list is "BSG Deadlock Soundtrack - Skirmish 3" You might want to look into fixing that
I feel like the viper is pretty practical. There's trade-offs to be made, focusing all your engine power in one direction instead of every direction gives better straight line acceleration, smaller cross sectional area, etc. The viper is descended from an interceptor. Look at historical interceptors like the f-104, they're big engines with guns and some small wings. Compare that to the f-8 crusader, both developed around the same time but to do different things.
There was a old sci-fi game where you piloted different fighter models and part of the missions where to intercept enemy fighter, bomber and Torpedos in capital ship fights. It was called Starlancer and i think Freelancer told the story after Starlancer had ended.
1. I think that you accidentally placed this in the wrong Playlist. 2. I don't think that the mark IV would have whatever it is on the front of the engines like that, but it is an interesting idea. 3. Very nice video. Please keep up the good work.
Excellent Video. One thing that always bugged me about the RDM remake though is that while their Capital and ships down to Raptor-size MUST have some level of Artificial Gravity/Inertial Dampeners (Not necessarily the same thing), we don't actually know if the Fighter Craft did. BSG '78 clearly did because... 1,000 years of Space-Combat = Crushingly Better Tech than less than 60 in the remake. In the '04 version, even the Viper Mark II likely could EASILY exceed in any vector, what the Human Body could withstand, making any Speed/Maneuverability improvements moot. So Inertial Dampening tech becomes absolutely mandatory to take advantage of those improvements.
probably not cannon anymore but in the X-wing/tie fighter game series you spent a reasonable amount of time taking out missiles aimed at either your self or capital ships with your fighter
Have loved BSG Vipers since the late 70's. In the early to mid 80's my friends and I named our BMX's different Vipers and spent days just bombing around on them...after an appropriate high speed tube launch of course. Better times.
You forgot to mention this, but in the original BSG (1978) the Vipers also had a scouting role to check various routes a head to find the safest routes for the Galatica and the fleet.
i love the Mk 7. though to be fair had I been on the design team for the RIS i would have argued to replace the dorsal gun with a D'assault Rafale style ECM Suit. the 3rd gun over the cockpit gives me E-Wing flashbacks
You missed one... in the original series Starbuck was forced to land on a forgotten penal colony by an early model viper. Were is that one? He was forced down because his viper was unarmed as the turbo generators for guns were removed to give him more turbo boost
I think you mean the Mark 4....but yeah, it's from the aborted Bryan Singer film that would pick up where the original series left off. It would have found the Colonials settled in a *asteroid cluster* named...wait for it..."New Caprica".
Vipers are smexy AF. In WH40k universe, Fury Interceptors. Hell Blades and Swiftdeath Fighters are used to screen capital ships from missile or torpedo barrage
The "Mk IV" was a proposed design for the stillborn Bryan Singer movie. I think two wood full size models were partially built before production was stopped due to 9/11 and other obstacles.
Like the idea that the Viper continued to be a chonker in the Mk IV with fleet command wanting a do-all craft that still didn't use any automation. I imagine the Mk. V being more purpose-built and beginning to be once again a little more compact as the computers within that were not connected to anything important were allowed to be multi-function again. Think 1996 before WiFi with a laptop in the car loaded with Mapquest data. Sure, the computer wasn't hard-wired to be single purpose. This allows the Mk IV to be enshrunkened a little as computer paranoia begins to subside a bit. The Mk VI using the simpler Mk VII concept art makes sense. And of course the Mk VII-B being simplified for faster production makes sense. Leave out the computers, reduce the materials used to construct the part of the nose they formerly occupied, skip pointless things like fancy paint jobs. Get it built and get it in the tube. And this ability to replenish lost supplies and equipment that can be built by mechanized factories is THE REASON Lee was an idiot. Yes, it probably wouldn't have mattered which battlestar they had. But no, Lee could never have known that. I'm confident Bill had a plan to get the hell out of there because he would know damned well how inexperienced Lee was. And Lee was the only other officer who might have been ready for command. But that … is another debate.
I have loved the Viper since 1978, It is such a cool design. I do like the new designs from the reimagined series as well. I much prefer the original series over the reimagined one and think they could have done a much better job, much like the new star wars movies they had a blank canvas to expand the story but decided to jump on the let's just redo the original with some twists bandwagon.
Apparently a bunch of USAF pilots General Dynamics engineers liked it, too. This is how the F-16 was named "Viper" by its pilots and General Dynamics at the time. Goes full circle when the Mk VII incorporated elements of the F-16 in its design as stated by David Weddle.
Sorry to disagree, but for me the Mk1 is still the most beautiful version. I love the more industrial look, with the engines not fully covered, the bigger and more rectangular air intakes and the sleeker nose. Also the iconic wing shape is just perfect. 🥰
Theres even an older raptor, theres piston engine/turboprop models before the atmospheric jetfighter, you see them in caprica in a flight simulator, also you should do a misic small craft video, cover the taipan and the chaff dispenser small craft of the first war
I built the viper in vanilla kerbal with the rapier engines and without. If it went fast enough it would fly really well. I always enjoyed putting around cape kerbal in it..
Said that there was no instance of fighters being used to shoot down ordinance fired at the Galactica. This is not necessarily true. In WWII Germany would fire BUZZ BOMBS at brittan. The RAF would use spitfire fighters to fly along side of them and then with their wing tips they would smack them and send them off course, if not just outright shooting them down like pigeons.
It's Viper squadrons not squad since a squad is an infantry organizational element that is the smallest in size. However a squadron is what a fighter organizational element stemming from cavalry of old or so.
oh I think those would fly in atmosphere. You would just need a lot of speed/thrust. maybe assuming there is computer assistance in keeping it stable like in modern craft in real life.
4:07 *Looks like Apollo's brother Zac receiving the damage that will lead to his death after he & Apollo discover the empty cylon tankers & are jumped by cylon raiders just before the peace conference set up by Baltar from the original series*
To be honest the 3 main sci fi hero ships of the late 70s was an swing a viper and the thunderfighter from buck rodgers. The thunder fighter looked like if a star wars howlrunner and snow speeder had a love child and it became a space fighter. But those 3 ships cemented sci love of space fighter ships. Then as villains you had tie and Cylon ships. I had all 5 as a kid.
Have to object to your claim the vipers wings dont help with atmospheric flight due to small size. The size of the vipers wings are comparable to those of the F-104 Starfighter, which was highly maneuverable, very fast.
Man I loved this. I personally think the way they killed off the Pegasus was stupid. They could have set a ambush for the two battlestars but have the Cylons focus down the Pegasus rather than the captains decision to sacrifice the new and better Pegasus class for the older outdated, not able to build its own vipers Galactica.
This is just speculation, but it was said that the original Viper MK1 had laser cannons. Could perhaps after extensive battles and skirmishes that the Colonials concluded that lasers simply cannot pack enough punch in a small fighter? That the autocannons were much cheaper and did much more damage? Since they could have explosive rounds or armor piercing, these munitions could really blast through heavy Basestars like the Cetus Class. Lasers require bigger and bigger power sources and thus the fighter would get bigger to accommodate the equipment. Seems like a losing proposition. So the Colonials opted for missiles, larger magnetic cannons, and massive nuclear shells to overwhelm and destroy Cylon Capitol Ships. As for the Vipers, conventional (20mm or 30mm) "cartridges" using kinetic force to blast through a Cylon Raider. I can see the philosophy. And the Vipers are continuations of the classic design that has worked well for them. Again sensible, as they only had the Cylons to battle. No other alien races were present, and did not figure into their designs.
I wonder if you know about the projects working on 1:1 models of the Colonial Viper? I know because it's also one of my favorites :D BTW the Discord link is expired.
3:20 In Babylon 5, even though we don't see this on screen directly, there is dailogue and some visual evidence that Starfurys were able to he used as Interceptors, shooting down missiles and energy projectiles.
No it was shown at the end of the Earth Alliance civil war when Clarck ordered the Weapon satellites to raze earth, Starfuries and Nials destroyed several missiles that were fired from the satellites to destroy Sheridans forces.
What about the early Viper from the original series episode think it was "Prison Planet"? I don't remember if it was called a Viper or maybe it was an Asp? It looked like a Viper except the wings were flat instead of canted down as on the Viper.
I always considered the fighter known as the 6th Millennium Starfighter (from the original series) as a predecessor to the viper, using a similar spaceframe, but we're just talking about vipers I guess 😉
No. Vipers in BSG use gas based RCS. Star Wars uses magical Intertial Dampeners, where they're literally capable of switching the direction of their inertial mass. Pilots in Starwars are immune to G-forces because of the dampeners and they can manuver at extreme speeds that are near relativistic. The X-Wing is actually FTL capable, which in the Star Wars lore, still requires speed to achieve to survive in Hyper Space. BSG is basically a lot more realistic (some how) than Star Wars. SWs uses so much fantasy magic for its tech it's unreal.
"Stubby little wings that could in no way support flight."
*F-104* "Am I joke to you?"
they didnt call it the "widowmaker" for nothing
@@DaytonaRoadster *Lawn Dart :-D
Yeah I spend signifcant amounts of time working in a hangar with an F-104 every week and yeah... I had the same thought, although the viper wings are very downswept...
@@DaytonaRoadster because they kept pushing it into missions it was absolutely not designed for.
X-15: "I'm the fastest EVER!"
One thing you should have noticed is that due to most of the mass being in the rear of the vehicle the maneuvering thrusters in the nose gives the Viper the leverage needed to literally turn on a dime in combat.
Viper wings also had RCS thrusters on the wing tips to increase roll and pitch authority [putting thrusters out on arms adds to leverage]
Small quibble, but BSG: Deadlock is not what introduced the Viper mk.1 to the RDM remake timeline. In the very first part of the Miniseries, there is a Viper mk.1 on display in the museum aboard Galactica. It was either non-functional or deemed too outdated to be reactivated like the mk.2s from the museum were, so it was never seen again in the series. But the point is, the Mk.1 was ALWAYS meant to be a part of the re-make's lore as an older ship.
it could of also been scrapped and its parts used on the other vipers on Galactica
And of course later on in Blood and Chrome set during the original cylon war.
I think it was used at the battle of the colony when the vipers are flying over grand old lady there a viper that looks way too different from the mk2 and mk VII
I assumed they lacked the parts for it and when they got the other battlestar in the fleet it didnt make sense to make more or parts when they coukd crank out the fancier higher end ones, unless it was like significantly cheaper but granted at that point it might be better to have a better fighter given the limited number of pilots, althoigh the idea of them cranking out MK1s and putting civilians from the fleet in the cockpits is an amuseing idea
If you're ever having a bad day, just be thankful you're not strapped to a fragile rocketship, yetted out into the depths of space through the Holy Wall of Flak (blessed be it's name) at Mach Fuck by an electromagnetic catapult into an oncoming wall of densely packed and extremely angry ass-grabbing robots, and expected to just make it work.
Out putting warheads on foreheads. Even if it's a toaster's😂
Praise the holy Omnissiah!
Uphill. Both ways.
Must feel like an actual fucking miracle when a viper jock lands after a mission. I'd be kissing the deck every time thanking the lords I didn't get turned into jello.
I do not hate my liver enough to accept your challenge.
The liver is evil and must be punished
CHUG CHUG CHUG
I do
>can't fly in atmosphere
The f-104 would like a word with you.
18:56 If you think that is bad, I suggest reading about the debacle that was the Mk.14 torpedo used by the USN in the opening stages of the Pacific Campaign.
Ouch.
And it's closely related Air dropped relative.
yet another great episode guys, but i am a little disappointed that the "blackbird" wasnt mentioned, although to be fair, its status as a "Viper" is debatable...
The Battle for New Caprica was visually stunning, but tactically and strategically a disaster. Bill Adama made the calculated decision to sacrifice Galactica and Save Pegasus because Pegasus had all the manufacturing and logistics equipment to be truly self sufficient. Her foundries could not only produce replacement ships, but spare parts for other ships in the fleet. Her library contained schematics and technical readouts for so much equipment and was basically a how to build/fix for dummies.
Given enough time, I wager Pegasus could begin building corvettes or other small capital ships by sealing one of her four flight decks and using it as a drydock. She has the manufacturing facilities to make components, and the space to assemble them.
Lee Adama wanted to save his father. I understand this. But he should have let the Galactica go down and instead evacuate the Admiral and Galactica's crew to the Pegasus. By throwing away Pegasus, he threw away a more powerful combatant and a major logistical resource. In a modern Navy, disobaying direct orders to engage in that kind of unfavorable trade for personal reasons would see you stripped of command at best and drummed out of the navy at worst.
True but they should have attacked with the Pegasus from the jump. It’s a much more powerful ship
CGI budget went downhill pretty hard so yeah…
Well Lee Adana was demoted to Major after he lost his command.
With all this thing about New Caprica and "losing Pegasus is bad" only one question:
How long will hold remnants of the fleet without Bill Adama and crew of Galactica?
It's not looks like crew of Galactica will escape from ship near New Caprica and so... another option to lose not just old ship, but experienced crew and admiral that basically leading all colonial expedition.
I dont know for sure how New Caprica battle should ended properly, but with Galactica lost - there will be really big problem with holding colonials together. Like later in the series - we have example of mutiny that was stopped literally only with reputation of Bill Adama.
Also losing crew of Galactica is absolute disaster too (and I dont see this moment explored like at all, folks - this is not much people left, especially - professionals that know their job).
EXACTLY. So glad you pointed this out because I never see it mentioned in discussions on losing Pegasus. It wasn't just Vipers, she was a mobile factory. Akin to the STCs from 40k, or carriers from Homeworld if you're familiar with that franchise. That thing could have, given sufficient time, built an entire fleet from raw resources. It'd be tricky building larger ships without a true shipyard or drydock, but with a safe location and dedication I always imagined they might have been able to fabricate the components for things as large as frigates, then assemble them outside the ship. Hell, if New Caprica had never been discovered by Cylons Pegasus could've put together an orbital shipyard, piece by piece, and the Colonials might have been able to start rebuilding some semblance of a navy
Adding the raptors to standard flight operations in the RDM series was great. Fighters rely in their ewo/ewacs.
Per Wikipedia, the Trinidad overran the malfunctioning torpedo while using evasive maneuvers against other attacks, rather than a flip & return to momma. She survived that oopsie (minus 32 crew) and was partially repaired at a friendly port. Those repairs were insufficient and made her a lame duck when attacked by a force of JU-88 bombers. She took a hit and it was decided to scuttle her rather than attempt to reach home port for full repairs.
Damnit Ashley
Also, I love the elongated leading wing edge on the mkvii, looks like an F-18.
Fun fact, it's actually meant to be a callback to the F-16. When the F-16 was coming out initially, pilots felt the design was similar to the Vipers of the original BSG and began to refer to the F-16 as "Vipers" instead of the official name of "Fighting Falcon". When the RDM series came out they wanted an old and new Viper, so they created the Mk 2 as an updated version of the original Vipers and the Mk 7 as the modern Vipers. Because they could update the VII's look, they decided to return the love that F-16 pilots had been sharing for years by modelling the Mk 7 after the F-16.
I know I say this every other video, but I love this channel, it's entirely my jam. Please keep it up. More spaceship talk the better.
Me: "Shut up Liver; you'll be fine."
You mention an air-breathing jet fighter named "Viper". Such a fighter actually exists, it is currently the most produced jet fighter in use by the USAF and much of NATO as well as other customers. It is the F-16 Viper. It got its name when early F-16 pilots in the USAF thought it had some characteristics in common with the Colonial Vipers of the then popular Battlestar Galactica series of the 1970's as well as General Dynamics using "Viper" as the code name for the development project (also named after the BSG fighter). Before being officially named "Fighting Falcon" the name "Viper" had already stuck and to this day F-16 pilots in the USAF continue to call them "Vipers". Much like how the A-10 was officially named "Thunderbolt II" but everyone knows them as "Warthogs", same deal. Also, it goes full circle with the Viper MK VII. The producers in an interview stated that the Viper MK VII's design was based on the F-16. Many elements of the MK VII's design are actually recognizable features from the F-16 Viper (such as the bubble canopy, leading edge extensions, underside intake, and fly-by-wire control system).
Deadlock has some really good ship designs and as for the viper the MKI and prototype MKII in the gamenlook pretty sweet. The BSG game back in the early 2000's also had a bunch of cool viper designs that doesnt get seen very much. The MKII though damn what a fighter.
Back in the late '60s there was a TV show called "UFO". Their space interceptor looks like a predecessor to the BG Viper.
It does 😮
little note : "UFO" was also the inspiration for the game "X-COM: UFO DEFENSE"
Deadlock taught me keeping the vipers as guards is a waste as if you set them to attack they will shred the cylon light ships very quickly one after another without me babysitting them.
I think the doctrine kind of works with that. You launch them initially as support and guards, and then plunge them into an opening and let them tear apart light ships.
Honestly, I use them as scouts a lot. Even if they just get sent out to die. If I know where the enemy is, I can nuke it. I'll send them to find all the enemy ships and get rid of their fighters. If they survive that, then they get sent after enemy light ships. Basically, anything for which a nuke would be overkill gets vipers and raptors sent after it.
yep vipers are your main weapon in deadlock... if u have enuff of them and use them correctly they are unbeatable. u might lose 1 squad out of 8 in any engagement.
I watched a series of someone beta testing the game and they were hilariously OP back then. They toned them down but still once the raiders got cleared they could still pretty much just eat an enemy fleet on their own if given enough time
@@jbz4788with one exception, the quintuple cerastes fleet, which nothing short of two Jupiters can take out, because holy crap that "balance" they did on them was painful
The soundproofing on the cockpit and helmets must be fantastic, considering that you're sitting there with the engine a few feet behind your head.
Remember there is no sound in space.👀
@@philb9410 But there is _vibration_ . Especially through solid objects. Which is what soundproofing blocks.
Good sir, you got this in the BT list lol, confused the hell out of me while I was listening to the playlist at work.
Babylon 5's "Star Furies" could intercept missiles and had the advantage of being part of a capital ship's "Defensive Grid.". This grid would comprise on-board weapons systems (traditional guns) and fighters. The grid could augment the ship's defensive weaponry by taking control of Star Furies and adding the fighter's weapons to the craft's defensive and offensive screen. In the B5 universe, Earth Force was the only major power to have perfected and implemented this type of "Defensive Grid." After many years of development, it became one of the most potent weapon systems ever deployed and surpassed the older races in lethality.
Few, if any, enemy fighters could penetrate this grid due to its targeting accuracy at short and medium ranges. Fewer capital ships would venture within the 'kill zone' [point blank] of the grid without being crippled if not destroyed due to surprisingly awesome firepower from the Star Furies' rapid-fire plasma canons and medium anti-capital ship weapons, not to mention the railguns and particle beam weapons of Earth Force's warships.
Have you looked at the Hammerhead's from Space Above and Beyond? While filming the prop was being shipped full size and the Russian's thought it was a new fighter that the Airforce had a new design. It was a great looking ship and yes I think it looked better than the Mark 1 Viper even though I love the show.
Those SA-43s were an awesome design that had so much thought and lore put into it, from the combined cycle engines that gave it space and atmosphere capability to the unique launch mechanism that had the ship in vacuum while the canopy slotted upward into a pressurized airlock space for pilot entry. Super cool design. The whole show was full of them, with the space carriers, etc
That was the F/A-37 Talon from the movie Stealth and it was the Communist Chinese who asked WTF…
I have that series squirreled away on some computer. I need to find it and watch it again.
An ASF so cool in the original series, the Jock/Nerd hybrid class known as Air Force Pilots named the F-16 after it.
I thought exactly the same thing.
however, the F16 is actually called the Fighting Falcon...
@@MasterDownUnder Officially sure. And the A-10 is called the Thunderbolt II
@@MasterDownUnderliterally no one in the aviation community calls it that. It's the Viper.
@@jamesrather1510 well, everyone I know does. And I read that the "Viper" is only referring to the newer updated versions. Anyway, each to their own.
The Viper/mark drinking game is the true reason Steve has disappeared for awhile; he tried to keep up and gave himself alcohol poisoning. May your liver recover soon!
Thanks!
Holy shit, dude thanks. I wish youtube would send me notifications when people do this. I stumbled on this by accident and I would have felt like shit if this slipped past me. Dude thank you, I appreciate this a lot.
The ^VIPER^ is also my favourite SCI-FI Fighter ship of all time and is even my gaming and discord name. As for the changes from the Mark 2 to the Mark 3, this really does remind me of my favourite Earth based fighter, which is the F/A 18 Hornet. When you look at the difference in size, weapons and capabilities between the early Hornets: A, B, C and D and compare them to the specs of the SUPER HORNET: E, F and G, you can see how similar this looks to the differences between the Mark 2 and the Mark 3.
You missed one... In BSG the Series there was an episode (The Long Patrol) where Starbuck was forced down to a forget penal colony by a 6th Millennium starfighter which looks like a viper with flat wings... the true mark one?
In Freespace 1 & 2, you the player is often tasked to intercept bombers and ordenance to defend capital ships. Iirc in the Wing Commander series you sometimes had this kind of mission too. It's not a trope unique to the Vipers.
Hell, even Starfox 64 had a mission like that.
I grew up in the 70’s and 80’s and this show was My favorite I had a bunch of the toys and I had the ship from Space 1999 and would play with them all the time.
23:22
That seems like that would be an extremely bad thing for them since the Cylons are great at hacking colonial technology.
I feel that there are only a few ways to deal with that.
1. Have as little computers as possible or even being entirely mechanical.
2. Being far more advanced than the Cylons could be. But that would be a tall order if you made them or you're on the backfoot as a species trying to survive.
3. Having such a radical difference in technology that it would take a lot of time for them to figure out your technology if at all.
and
4. Having everything hardwired and no network for the Cylons to hack into, you can't hack into a computer that is not connected to the internet unless you are plugged into said computer with a wire.
4. Stand alone non networked computer systems. Advanced computer systems that cannot talk to other computers
Even Galactica had computers. But they weren't allowed to communicate. No hacker can get oast a lack of connection.
The 2003 Battlestar Galactica video game took place in the original 1970s universe during the first cylon war (non-cannonical now) That game had a version of the mkiii viper. Though it was a little bigger than the mkii, the biggest visual difference was that version of the mkiii had a third autocannon mounted above the cockpit.
and dither treating the enemy with an point blank taste of the sun with nuclear munitions LINE GOSE CRAZZY 4:25
The colonials could establish a multi planet empire but couldn't figure out how to turn the wifi off
Hey SCI
you know that this (good) video is in the "BATTLETECH LORE" playlist, not the "BATTLESTAR GALACTICA LORE" playlist. It's video no.22, for some reason.
Oddly, it's not even the only BSG video erroneously placed in the "BATTLETECH LORE" playlist. Video no.4 in the list is "BSG Deadlock Soundtrack - Skirmish 3"
You might want to look into fixing that
Man! That "air sucking" Viper is AWESOME!
Looks like a WW2 BF-109 in the front.
I like Babylon 5's Starfury Aurora better on a practical level - it makes more sense IMHO. But the Viper just plain looks better.
The Starfury is kind of ugly but in a very pretty way. Plus, B5 has some spectacular ship designs all around.
I feel like the viper is pretty practical. There's trade-offs to be made, focusing all your engine power in one direction instead of every direction gives better straight line acceleration, smaller cross sectional area, etc.
The viper is descended from an interceptor. Look at historical interceptors like the f-104, they're big engines with guns and some small wings. Compare that to the f-8 crusader, both developed around the same time but to do different things.
@@VallornDeathblade
The B5 pilots had a patch the FCC missed.
Butt ugly but well hung.
There was a old sci-fi game where you piloted different fighter models and part of the missions where to intercept enemy fighter, bomber and Torpedos in capital ship fights. It was called Starlancer and i think Freelancer told the story after Starlancer had ended.
Shooting down incoming missiles reminds me of the WWII British fighter pilots that took out the V-1 " buzz bombs.
Next the Starfury from Babylon 5.
I second this motion.
That thing was pretty good at it's job
OOOOOOOOOKAAAAAAAAAAAY! This guy gets BOTH series mixed up!!!! SHEESH!!!!!
1. I think that you accidentally placed this in the wrong Playlist.
2. I don't think that the mark IV would have whatever it is on the front of the engines like that, but it is an interesting idea.
3. Very nice video. Please keep up the good work.
New to the channel 👍 love the work. Also the FTL theme got me straight away 😊. Subbed
What about the two cannon stealth vipers?
Excellent Video. One thing that always bugged me about the RDM remake though is that while their Capital and ships down to Raptor-size MUST have some level of Artificial Gravity/Inertial Dampeners (Not necessarily the same thing), we don't actually know if the Fighter Craft did. BSG '78 clearly did because... 1,000 years of Space-Combat = Crushingly Better Tech than less than 60 in the remake.
In the '04 version, even the Viper Mark II likely could EASILY exceed in any vector, what the Human Body could withstand, making any Speed/Maneuverability improvements moot. So Inertial Dampening tech becomes absolutely mandatory to take advantage of those improvements.
Challenge Accepted. Drinks Ready.
24:17 Oven?! Embrace tradition! Use pan to toast your bread.
probably not cannon anymore but in the X-wing/tie fighter game series you spent a reasonable amount of time taking out missiles aimed at either your self or capital ships with your fighter
ty, was looking for this comment :D
Have loved BSG Vipers since the late 70's. In the early to mid 80's my friends and I named our BMX's different Vipers and spent days just bombing around on them...after an appropriate high speed tube launch of course. Better times.
My new oven just laughed. Prehistoric toasters?
Mark 1 Viper. Outrun. Yes
Out gunned? Maybe
Outclassed? NEVER
This seems to be in the Battletech playlist and not the Battlestar Galactica playlist for some reason.
You forgot to mention this, but in the original BSG (1978) the Vipers also had a scouting role to check various routes a head to find the safest routes for the Galatica and the fleet.
i love the Mk 7.
though to be fair had I been on the design team for the RIS i would have argued to replace the dorsal gun with a D'assault Rafale style ECM Suit. the 3rd gun over the cockpit gives me E-Wing flashbacks
You missed one... in the original series Starbuck was forced to land on a forgotten penal colony by an early model viper. Were is that one? He was forced down because his viper was unarmed as the turbo generators for guns were removed to give him more turbo boost
That one was pre-Viper, and everything behind the cockpit was different.
But he did miss one, Starbucks Stealth "Blackbird"
The Viper MK5 you love so much is actually the design from an aborted continuation of the OG BSG.
I think you mean the Mark 4....but yeah, it's from the aborted Bryan Singer film that would pick up where the original series left off. It would have found the Colonials settled in a *asteroid cluster* named...wait for it..."New Caprica".
Just a heads up, this video's in the battletech playlist
This is in the Battletech playlist for some reason. Not sure if you knew.
Cool use of Bill Prunty's FTL music!
Vipers are smexy AF.
In WH40k universe, Fury Interceptors. Hell Blades and Swiftdeath Fighters are used to screen capital ships from missile or torpedo barrage
The "Mk IV" was a proposed design for the stillborn Bryan Singer movie. I think two wood full size models were partially built before production was stopped due to 9/11 and other obstacles.
I liked how after the Pegasus the Viper fleet transitioned to primarily Mk VII.
Like the idea that the Viper continued to be a chonker in the Mk IV with fleet command wanting a do-all craft that still didn't use any automation.
I imagine the Mk. V being more purpose-built and beginning to be once again a little more compact as the computers within that were not connected to anything important were allowed to be multi-function again. Think 1996 before WiFi with a laptop in the car loaded with Mapquest data. Sure, the computer wasn't hard-wired to be single purpose. This allows the Mk IV to be enshrunkened a little as computer paranoia begins to subside a bit.
The Mk VI using the simpler Mk VII concept art makes sense.
And of course the Mk VII-B being simplified for faster production makes sense. Leave out the computers, reduce the materials used to construct the part of the nose they formerly occupied, skip pointless things like fancy paint jobs. Get it built and get it in the tube. And this ability to replenish lost supplies and equipment that can be built by mechanized factories is THE REASON Lee was an idiot. Yes, it probably wouldn't have mattered which battlestar they had. But no, Lee could never have known that.
I'm confident Bill had a plan to get the hell out of there because he would know damned well how inexperienced Lee was. And Lee was the only other officer who might have been ready for command. But that … is another debate.
I have loved the Viper since 1978, It is such a cool design. I do like the new designs from the reimagined series as well. I much prefer the original series over the reimagined one and think they could have done a much better job, much like the new star wars movies they had a blank canvas to expand the story but decided to jump on the let's just redo the original with some twists bandwagon.
Apparently a bunch of USAF pilots General Dynamics engineers liked it, too. This is how the F-16 was named "Viper" by its pilots and General Dynamics at the time. Goes full circle when the Mk VII incorporated elements of the F-16 in its design as stated by David Weddle.
Sorry to disagree, but for me the Mk1 is still the most beautiful version. I love the more industrial look, with the engines not fully covered, the bigger and more rectangular air intakes and the sleeker nose. Also the iconic wing shape is just perfect. 🥰
Theres even an older raptor, theres piston engine/turboprop models before the atmospheric jetfighter, you see them in caprica in a flight simulator, also you should do a misic small craft video, cover the taipan and the chaff dispenser small craft of the first war
Video like this on the Starfury ?
hey SCI, just a heads up this video is showing up in the Battletech playlist, not the BSG playlist. Love both universes and your vids but just FYI.
GOD I would love to see a game in this universe that is modern
I would think those wings are more for stability in flight, not lift.
I built the viper in vanilla kerbal with the rapier engines and without. If it went fast enough it would fly really well. I always enjoyed putting around cape kerbal in it..
"Enchonked", whata brilliant word!
I nominate "vast" for the drinking game. (cool vid)
Said that there was no instance of fighters being used to shoot down ordinance fired at the Galactica.
This is not necessarily true. In WWII Germany would fire BUZZ BOMBS at brittan. The RAF would use spitfire fighters to fly along side of them and then with their wing tips they would smack them and send them off course, if not just outright shooting them down like pigeons.
"mark" was said 61 times, didn't keep track of "viper" but 61 shots should be more than enough to knock someone out so...
What about the Stealth Viper?
It's Viper squadrons not squad since a squad is an infantry organizational element that is the smallest in size. However a squadron is what a fighter organizational element stemming from cavalry of old or so.
oh I think those would fly in atmosphere. You would just need a lot of speed/thrust. maybe assuming there is computer assistance in keeping it stable like in modern craft in real life.
4:07 *Looks like Apollo's brother Zac receiving the damage that will lead to his death after he & Apollo discover the empty cylon tankers & are jumped by cylon raiders just before the peace conference set up by Baltar from the original series*
To be honest the 3 main sci fi hero ships of the late 70s was an swing a viper and the thunderfighter from buck rodgers. The thunder fighter looked like if a star wars howlrunner and snow speeder had a love child and it became a space fighter. But those 3 ships cemented sci love of space fighter ships. Then as villains you had tie and Cylon ships. I had all 5 as a kid.
Have to object to your claim the vipers wings dont help with atmospheric flight due to small size. The size of the vipers wings are comparable to those of the F-104 Starfighter, which was highly maneuverable, very fast.
At the end of the third season Lee Adama was flying in a Mark 7 that had the CNP taken out.
19:08
Ealy war American torpedoes were so wose especially the attempt at homing torpedoes.
why is this in battletech playlist?
Why is this in the battletech playlist? 😮
i have seen a cool model of a ww2 themed viper conversion based of the jet version shown in Caprica
Man I loved this. I personally think the way they killed off the Pegasus was stupid. They could have set a ambush for the two battlestars but have the Cylons focus down the Pegasus rather than the captains decision to sacrifice the new and better Pegasus class for the older outdated, not able to build its own vipers Galactica.
This is just speculation, but it was said that the original Viper MK1 had laser cannons. Could perhaps after extensive battles and skirmishes that the Colonials concluded that lasers simply cannot pack enough punch in a small fighter? That the autocannons were much cheaper and did much more damage? Since they could have explosive rounds or armor piercing, these munitions could really blast through heavy Basestars like the Cetus Class. Lasers require bigger and bigger power sources and thus the fighter would get bigger to accommodate the equipment. Seems like a losing proposition.
So the Colonials opted for missiles, larger magnetic cannons, and massive nuclear shells to overwhelm and destroy Cylon Capitol Ships. As for the Vipers, conventional (20mm or 30mm) "cartridges" using kinetic force to blast through a Cylon Raider. I can see the philosophy. And the Vipers are continuations of the classic design that has worked well for them. Again sensible, as they only had the Cylons to battle. No other alien races were present, and did not figure into their designs.
I wonder if you know about the projects working on 1:1 models of the Colonial Viper? I know because it's also one of my favorites :D BTW the Discord link is expired.
Challenge rejected. Haram detected.
PS. I did drink copious amounts of Qahwa during the vid tho. Cheers ❤
You know. My profile picture IS cute. My name IS funny. Anchovies though?!?!? Are.... yeah pretty nasty I won't lie there. Keep up the awesome videos!
3:20 In Babylon 5, even though we don't see this on screen directly, there is dailogue and some visual evidence that Starfurys were able to he used as Interceptors, shooting down missiles and energy projectiles.
No it was shown at the end of the Earth Alliance civil war when Clarck ordered the Weapon satellites to raze earth, Starfuries and Nials destroyed several missiles that were fired from the satellites to destroy Sheridans forces.
Its very difficult to spot but i believe thy take at least on missile down .
13:00 = ShyLily enjoyer, based ^^
What about the early Viper from the original series episode think it was "Prison Planet"? I don't remember if it was called a Viper or maybe it was an Asp? It looked like a Viper except the wings were flat instead of canted down as on the Viper.
I tried joining your discord server and your link turns up as expired. It may be time to generate a new invite?
I always considered the fighter known as the 6th Millennium Starfighter (from the original series) as a predecessor to the viper, using a similar spaceframe, but we're just talking about vipers I guess 😉
ah the scorpion seems everyone forgets abt that one.
But are you really a true fan if you overlook this important ship? Jk
Vipers definitely would out fly and out dog fight X-wing and Tie fighters of Star Wars
No. Vipers in BSG use gas based RCS. Star Wars uses magical Intertial Dampeners, where they're literally capable of switching the direction of their inertial mass. Pilots in Starwars are immune to G-forces because of the dampeners and they can manuver at extreme speeds that are near relativistic. The X-Wing is actually FTL capable, which in the Star Wars lore, still requires speed to achieve to survive in Hyper Space.
BSG is basically a lot more realistic (some how) than Star Wars. SWs uses so much fantasy magic for its tech it's unreal.
Viper II ---> Viper III = Legacy F/A-18 Hornet ---> Super Hornet. Looks alike, but is larger in every dimension and a new ship under the skin.
I'm surprised that twin canted vertical tails with guns and engine thrust vectoring were not considered for the newer variants