Harley Davidson Warranty: What's The Deal?
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- Harley Davidson does offer a two year warranty, but is it worth anything? What can you change? What can't you change? I'll give ya some how it works and some tips on what to do or what not to do.
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Great content again John Maxwell. Between you and Matt Laidlaw , you guys are my go to for information that is sound. Not just internet crying. Thanks. PS more blooper reels. 😂😂😂
My experience with Harley warranty work is it gets denied. The dealer I bought it from denied it because they were far away so I had some routine service done at a closer dealership . And that dealership wouldn’t cover it because I didn’t buy it there . Tried to call the factory customer service which no one ever answered . So I bought the parts and did the work myself. If you bought the bike it shouldn’t matter what dealership does the work the company should compensate the dealership no matter which one it is .
I bought my from a dealership that is 60 miles from my house, but I get it serviced at our local dealership that is 9 miles from my house. I've already have had some work done under warranty. So you are correct, it shouldn't matter where you bought the bike from. ANY Harley dealership should provide warranty work.
Jenna Talia good to know.
@@nsajgalvan Pretty sure its HD company policy that any HD dealer can carry out warranty work. It's down to the dealership to honor it though. Many dealers don't want to do any warranty work as they can't make enough money out of it. Personally, I found warranty work was great during slow periods and some we found 'alternative' methods to cut 5 hr warranty to about 45 minutes (that was on a Yamaha though and they changed the time after we submitted 5 for the same day)
Peter Jones that’s when unfortunately pencil whipping is a necessary evil. Sorry for the reply 9 months later.
@@nsajgalvan Warranty work can be done at any HD dealership. They should not have denied you because you bought the bike somewhere else. I sold my HD and transferred the warranty to a person 150 miles away from me in PA and I live in NY. He has had no issues with HD in PA honoring the warranty.
I appreciate you making this video regardless of what other channels are doing. You are the only Harley tech channel I watch.
John, your explanation of the warranty issues with Harley were made very clear in this video! All the rumors about voiding the whole warranty when using after market parts were laid to rest! Thank you for your "Common Sense" approach in your explanation!
Rich Canfield not really! I have lots of friends that had their bikes tagged with a sticker that says warranty is void...
They had harley install parts on the bike! The reasoning was that it was not screaming eagle parts! Even tho they sold and installed it...
@@RobertOrtiz1015 Wow....thanks for the info! Wonder if Indian does the same thing?
Rich Canfield i think harley also has issues with certain dealerships doing things one way and other dealers doing it a different way... for instance... when I bought my fatbob i was offered a lifetime warranty on drivetrain! Hell yeah i said! Well... it was only at Caliente HD in San Antonio.... second! Caliente HD had to do every single one of the services on my bike! So... i move every couple years so that sucks and i am not taking the bike in for a oil change that i can do...
This lifetime thing was a dealer only thing also
@@richcanfield1387 It isn't JUST HD that does this. Go buy a new vehicle and put a tuner on it that makes it perform outside of it's stated parameters and I'll bet you if you take it to a dealer for service it will be flagged. Example: I just bought a 2018 Ram 3500 with a Cummins 6.7ltr engine. If I install a Edge or Smarty tuner on it I will void the powertrain warranty. Heck I had a 2002 Ram 2500 and the same thing applied to it. This isn't anything new, why do you think all the aftermarket companies have the little discloser at the bottom that says "FOR OFF-ROAD USE ONLY"? The only thing that isn't happening right now is that the EPA isn't going after the consumer for breaking the law.
@@Wildman4x4nut Wow Wildman...many stories out there, thanks for yours. I guess if I was a manufacturer, I would have the same concerns, and liability being the way it is...my reaction my be the same as HD and so many others. Too bad so many people have warranty issues simply because they make a couple modifications.
You have a way of honesty that's harsh but not mean. Like it.
Auggie Mueller it’s called honesty. Most people don’t like it these days.
Matthew Hawn lots of truth there for sure
This is 100% the most accurate warranty information I have found. I have a 2018 CVO Limited with a Voided Powertrain Warranty. Every single bit of the information passed on here is exactly how it went for me. Great job John. Thank you.
Sorry about the warranty man.
@@TheHarleyTech, It is what it is Brother. I did the Fullsac MX head pipe, 2" baffles, Woods 22X cam, S&S Oil pump and cam plate setup, and a TTS Mastertuner. It was voided at 750 miles. I've gotten to enjoy those upgrades for almost 10k miles now. My dealership took really good care of me. I don't regret it. I just wish I had seen this video before so I would have understood everything better. Stock sucks. I would have still done the upgrades. It just would have saved me a lot of arguments with the motor company.
The law are pretty clear on this stuff. If a component fails and the unit has aftermarket parts, it is the responsibility of the dealer/manufacturer to prove the aftermarket part was the cause of the failure. It all gets very touchy when you start talking money.
I work for a manufacturer and I always try to be fair with my dealership and customer while trying to keep the interest of the manufacturer. I have even covered some stuff out of warranty (goodwill).
Good video.
Something is not right! A Maxwell preferring Folgers over Maxwell House?
Best comment of the week lol
Beat me to it.
I bought it at Brandon Harley new. Just like Clermont I think their the best..plus they sell Amsoil!!!!
That is actually really funny....🤣🤣
Big Coffee got paid John to say that. You can tell in his eyes he doesn't feel that way. ;)
John. Thank you for the warranty video explanation!! I almost added a set of Vance & Hines Short Shots & Fuel Pack to my 2019 Fatboy. Now after chatting with the Orlando Harley Dealer, I will be getting the Short Shots and the HD Screaming Eagle fuel tuner, and the Dealer will be doing the installation. Thanks again man! Glad I didn't accidentally void that power train warranty!!
Think my stator failure was due to my 49-state FP3? Thought not - even the factory reps at Black Hills HD during Sturgis last year knew that. Magnusen-Moss clearly states that a warranty cannot be denied unless an after-market component can be shown to be the cause. Fact. Yet my warranty was voided and my stator was not covered - until I threatened a law suit and a whole bunch of noise. They finally coughed up the $750 bucks for my stator repair, but my power train warranty was still voided. To think that HD is not benefiting from this "deal" is naive at best. The stench is enough to drive me to my nearest Indian dealer. Having said that, I will say that this is the most unbiased (either way) and most informed video regarding this cluster-fuck yet. Kudos for that.
Oh I’m not saying it doesn’t suck, and any help it brings H-D won’t last long. I know more people waiting to do performance than people that are buying HD performance.
You're not wrong, what Harley is doing with warranty these days is illegal as hell (Magnuson-Moss act). Yes, this will absolutely benefit them in the long run, they void warranties (lots and lots and lots of voided warranties) for customer installed items not attributed to the/any initial issue, they'll save millions. It'll take a huge lawsuit to correct this, until this happens (potentially decades of litigation), they bank the money. It's win win for them.
This isn't about not covering customer installed items, but voiding entire warranties strictly based on a customer installed item, even with no issues present. Get you bike dyno tuned, bring it in for warranty work on a cracked fender, the the tech plugs in digital tech (now mandatory for shops), it detects tuning software, Bam!, your warranty is now void with no issue present. This is a really big problem here in Cali.
20+ years (and currently) as a Harley tech.
Its not a matter of proving a part causing the failure, so Moss Magnusson doesnt apply. Its a matter of EPA compliance.
@@paulb354 - I suggest you read Magnusen-Moss AND the consent decree (the latter is a "ruling" by non-elected bureaucrats and the former is an actual law enacted by our elected representatives). You obviously have no idea what either one actually says.
@@mkalthouse Ha, yeah, ok.
Hey John. I am going to post a letter that was titled "US EPA tuner calibration communication reminder." I have connections and I was able to get my hands on this letter shortly after it was sent out on March 29, 2019. This letter was put out to dealers by Rob Bradford Director Global Service, Warranty and Customer Care. I think it is only fair that all consumers KNOW the exact verbiage that was submitted to the dealerships regarding this topic. This is straight from the Mo-Co and clear and concise. Here goes....
Dear US Dealers:
Harley Davidson service has received questions regarding warranty coverage on motorcycles that have calibrations installed on them that are not approved by the California air resources Board (CARB) or the US Environmental Protective Agency (EPA). This message is to remind you of the details of the EPA - Harley Davidson settlement.
As communicated in both the dealer letter and dealer news communication of August 18, 2016, Harley Davidson informed the US dealer network of the settlement between Harley Davidson and the EPA. As part of the settlement all 2017 model year and later Harley Davidson's that have been tuned using a tuner or calibration that is not covered by a CARB executive order or otherwise approved by the EPA would have no powertrain warranty. When Harley Davidson is made aware of such modifications a vehicle identification number block is placed on the powertrain; meaning we will, per the settlement deny all warranty claims for functional defects of powertrain components for any Harley Davidson vehicle (model year 2017 or later) registered in the United States. The definition of the powertrain in this instance pertains to the engine and all of its components including the ECM (engine control module), primary drive and transmission including all of its components.
As always, if we are made aware in any way of a non-EPA compliant tuner being installed on a model year 2017 and later motorcycle, those VIN numbers will be placed under the VIN Block for the powertrain warranty.
To help you reduce the likelihood of completing warranty work on a motorcycle that has a VIN block placed on it and subsequently having the powertrain warranty claim denied, the Digital Technician (DT) tool is positioned to protect you and we suggest as a best practice the following steps be followed.
1. Instruct your staff to plug the motorcycle into the DT during the service intake process to see if a non-compliant calibration change has been made and the VIN has been blocked.
2. Check the H-DNet, drop-down tab, "my tool box" then "Vehicle Information" to see if the motorcycle has had a VIN block placed on it for any other reason other than a non-compliant calibration under the EPA settlement.
These steps will inform your service personnel have of a non-compliant calibration, prior to starting any warranty repairs and will provide you the opportunity to set the appropriate expectation with the rider.
As a reminder, all Harley Davidson branded tuner calibration performance products meet EPA compliance requirements.
We encourage you and your staff to watch the video titled "2016 EPA Settlement Compliance" on H-DNet which discusses the settlement and warrantee implications of non-compliant calibrations.
Thank you,
Robert Bradford
Director Global Service, Warranty & Customer Care.
Richard Edwin this letter clears up a lot. Thanks for posting. Also, as always, very informative video John.
Phil Scott please feel free to copy & share this as well. This is a genuine authentic letter straight from the MoCo to the dealers. There is way too much speculation about what does or doesn't void the warranty. This letter is verbatim.
So for my 2016 RGU, if I use a FP3 tuner and I have a esp, is it going to do the same thing where it voids and blacklists my bike when its plugged in?
Tony Kuligowski according to the letter, that “blocking” of your VIN for powertrain warranty only applies to 2017 and newer. However, the FP3 is a flash tuner, so depending on what problem you may have, they may or may not cover it under warranty or ESP
Richard, in reading this letter it would seem to me that if I have a 2016 or older bike I can install any tuner I want and if I had bought the ESP for it then warranty wouldn't be voided because I had use an aftermarket tuner. Am I understanding this correctly or if you have a ESP on an older bike do you still have to ONLY use a SESPT on it?
I'm a tech at a Canadian dealership, and I can safely say if we did the work we stand behind it for sure. Good explanation of warranty.
Keep the good content coming.
a Happy Customer is a repeat customer, Im in my 3rd new harley from a dealer 60 miles away, with closer dealers, I stay loyal to them as long as they stay loyal too
Although many dealers would have you think otherwise, simply having an aftermarket part or modifying your vehicle cannot void yourwarranty. ... The Magnuson-Moss WarrantyAct states that a dealer must prove thataftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage
Thanks
So far my warranty covered the locks on my saddle bag and my fogging speedometer which btw doesnt fog up anymore. Thanks Harley .
Great explanation of warranty, as a retired auto tech I am always amazed when people want the company to pick up diagnostic time when it turns out to be an aftermarket part. Keep up the good work.
Great Vlog John, I have not been under warranty for along time. However, the explanation, clarification and background info is good to know. As you said the warranty issue is a hot topic. Thanks
So in basic terms, Harley is FORCED by the EPA to deny ALL POWERTRAIN WARRANTY on any vehicle that has Non EPA compliant parts...whether the defect is related to that part or not....which in turn is a direct violation of the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act which prohibits product manufacturers from conditioning consumer warranties on the use of any original equipment part or service (ie if Harley wants to deny service because you used aftermarket parts, they have to prove that part caused the failure). I would assume with all the lawyers who ride Harleys now, that this will all end up in court someday when someones motor seizes due to a faulty oil pump and they say they have no warranty because they put on aftermarket slipons... :D I dont get how the EPA has the authority to force a policy on warranty like that, as they are definitely hurting HD's business...I know a LOT of people who wont buy a new HD just because of this warranty situation... I mean lets be honest, the BIGGEST reason to buy a new bike over a used bike is the fact that you get a warranty. well if you are not going to have a warranty because you want to customize your bike and your warranty will be void then why not save 1000's of dollars and just buy a used bike instead...which is EXACTLY what is happening...and HD's business over the past few years proves this out.
Bingo!
@The CSRA Harley Tech Just so we are clear....I cut and pasted the short definition of the Moss Magnussen Act and put it there....thats not an Apple and Oranges statement, thats the exact overview of the Act..LOLZ. It LITERALLY states that you cannot void a warranty for using aftermarket parts unless the Manufacturer of the vehicle can PROVE the parts are what caused the issue....
@The CSRA Harley Tech If you look at what you posted "Defects or damage to the motorcycle caused by alterations outside of Harley-Davidson® factory specifications or caused by alterations or use of parts"....you see those words "CAUSED BY"....yeah...thats the important part...its on the DEALER to prove that part......IE the Magnessen Moss Act is there to ensure that a Manufacturer cannot leverage revocation of your warranty to force you to use their parts. Harley also leverages the fact that there are ENDLESS companies making parts to allow you to modify your bike to "Make it your own"....they use this CONSTANTLY to promote sales. This is fine....however the EPA has now made it legal for them to violate the MM Act (in my opinion). The EPA makes it EXTREMELY expensive to have anything certified as CARB compliant....in turn burdening small companies to compete. Also, even if they were carb compliant, in Harleys new policy it doesnt matter, your warranty is still void. I am not saying that Harley shouldnt be able to void your warranty if you use an aftermarket tuner that actually causes damage.....however they shouldn't be able to void all drivetrain warranty because I added a different exhaust to my bike....if say my oil pump seized up, they shouldnt be able to say they arent covering that under warranty because I added a different muffler....one has zero to do with the other.... The fact that they are is going to affect their sales...and it IS...I am proof of that, as one of the main incentives to buying a new bike over a slightly used one is the fact you get a warranty. If that incentive is taken away, then they are going to suffer with the loss of new bike sales....that is absolutely happening, if you think it isnt then you are lying to yourself.... The fact they have been allowed to void warranties in a simple blanket statement is a violation of the MM Act IMHO....we will see how that works out for them. Is it Harley's fault...I would say no, its not...its the EPA's fault, however Harley is the one that will be damaged by this.
@The CSRA Harley Tech Yes I just bought a 2015 CVO RGU and got the 5 year ESP on it. Now I am wondering if that was the right choice? Because it basically limits me to only being able to use the SESPT until the warranty is over OR I void my powertrain warranty by using a non-EPA compliant tuner to make the bike run better. What I have asked on many forums and not gotten a good answer to is "Why all the hate for the SESPT?" If I can still add aftermarket exhaust and cams to my engine will the SESPT be able to tune for these parts? Most answers I get are no it won't. If the bike is tuned to be EPA compliant will it run properly? Yes it may not make MAXIMUM HP & TQ with the SESPT but will it still run and properly? Maybe you can answer this?
At the end of the day all of the crap it is money because epa is government and all government is about the next dollar they can get out of business are individuals just like ole John Kerry’s climate bs and all his epa fines are his company
Just a shout out to Las Vegas Harley Dealership. Bought my 2015 Ultra Classic from them. I’ve had nothing but the best service from them. Shifter lever went out, took care of it no problems. Then 6 months before my 2 year manufacture was up, called me and asked if they could pick up my bike, and do a 17 point inspection at no charge. There was a couple small items they found but one of my shocks were blown and I needed a new battery. Took care of it at no charge to me. Now that I’m into the extended warranty, I haven’t had to use it yet. Knock on wood. I do my own services. Have been since I owned it. Buy all my products from them. Love the service and the bike. Very happy.
I knew about all this in bits and pieces... the EPA and a "tougher" stance on warranties... but I never had the connection spelled out to me. Thank you for the video. I watch them all!
This explains why when I bought my Iron 1200 last year, and had them do a stage 1, they warned me away from having them put on short shots because it could cause the warranty on the power train to be voided. I was disappointed by it at the time because the dealership was installing and dyno tuning.
The way I see it is it is best for a person that is going to buy a new bike is to leave it alone for the first 2 years then do what you want to it . The warranties are only good for the first 2 years ( except extended stuff ) . That is unless you go with Harley only parts put on at the dealer . If you do go aftermarket before you install check to make sure there are no issues with warranties . Also double check on any cosmetic parts you might want to add . Always double check to be sure .
Getting my motorcycle License this weekend. Can't wait to my first Harley!
Get a used dirt bike first n leathers n boots. Ride it in wet m dirt. Play with it. Then ride the hog.
Save money go Used. Lots of low mil bikes adult senior owned.
@@anthonynoble4257 A dirt-bike sounds pretty fun actually. However, I've been riding for a couple of years with my permit. Just think it's time to get my license. I still want to ride on a cruiser.
@@anthonynoble4257 Thanks. Hopefully, I can find a used bike with decent mileage.
Go get that Harley! Thats exactly what i did. Ive waited years to get a HD and i am still stoked that i bought a brand new 2020 Heritage in vivid black V107!
Thanks “thumbs” I’m thinking that was a good perspective from a tech/consumer point of view. 👍🏼 😎
Love and miss watching your videos! Trying to catch up on them now that I am back from a deployment in Japan. Keep these videos going!
I purchased a 2018 Heritage, color red denim oxide February 2018. It has 10,468 miles on it now.
At the bottom of the rear fender behind the plastic chrome edge piece the paint has chipped because of rust underneath.
Above the plastic chrome edge piece the paint has a bubble in it the size of a dime.
At the top of the rear fender above the license plate bracket the paint is fading.
I maintain the bike, always clean and I use the Harley Matte Paint Cleaner.
Harley refuses to address the rust and paint bubble because they feel;
" the bike has not been maintained and it's been used in harsh conditions. " ( they don't even know me or my riding habits )
I never took it off road, I ride only paved roads and it is cleaned regularly using Harley products and in a accordance with the washing procedures described in the manual.
Bubbling paint is NOT a maintenance issue!
Thanks for making that clear
Screw the EPA
I have loved all my HDs
Great fresh info on the warranty issue. HDMC has their hands tied (EPA) when it comes to us wanting to make our awesome bikes even better, faster etc....
About a year ago I had the stage IV, Reinharts and aftermarket tuner installed. Yes it voided the engine warranty but not the rest of the bike. Just had the recall on the clutch done and the switch in the clutch level that allows the bike to start in gear if the clutch is pulled in. The clutch was a safety recall (your previous video covered) but the switch was warranty work I discovered. I could only start the bike in neutral.
I bought a two year old 2006 xl1200c from a private owner and immediately went and bought an extended service plan on it. Had the starter go out about 6 month later, and it cost me 50 bucks to get it fixed, then paid out of pocket for the dealership to do a stage two upgrade with vance and hines pipes. within two months my front cylinder head gasket started leaking oil. It cost me 50 bucks to get it fixed.
Now I had heard that if any after market parts are put on your bike, including after market pipes it voids all warranties and or your extended service plan. it didnt effect me on my bike, but maybe where I take my bike cares more about their customer service than other dealerships. Smokey Mtn Harley. Maryville Tn.
Been watching you videos for some time and just noticed the TAB on the wall of your work station brother!!
RLTW!!
Class 8-89
1/75
3/75
Let's see some engine work on a twin cam. Lights are fun and all but us dyna fans want some love.
Not likely, most dealership techs do nothing but simple maintenance day in and day out. Inspections, oil change, light bulbs, tighten this or that. Not saying they aren't trained to do motor work.
Well maybe if I ever get the cash I'll plan a stage IV build on my '16 Fat Bob with our guy down in Georgia; don't count on it anytime soon though I'm broke and that's a haul from Ohio lol
Thanks for the insight. Dammit now I’m craving subway.
Dude gross
I didn't care about the warranty. I knew what I was getting into when I traded in my 103 for an M8. 2019 Street glide special, I put 200 miles on the bike and then installed a stage 1 air cleaner, S&S cam and pushrods, slip-ons and a Powervision tuner.... oh and I was one of the lucky ones who had the fluid transfer issue. I installed the larger diameter clutch rod and fixed that problem since the harley "fix" of venting the primary doesnt work. I can only hope and pray I dont sump but if I do, I'll throw a 124 on it.
Great vlog john,the one thing I noticed was that in 17 it was business as usual if you bought a bike the dealer threw on exhaust header and mufflers,air cleaner and the stage one was complete,minus tuner,dealers where pushing tts at the time,well some bikes malfunctioned and there powertrain warranty was voided cause of it,in late part of 18,harley did an update that fed all the info for the bike to Wisconsin thus VOID. I could right a book but this is way to long now,thanks man have fun, oh yeah 18 RGS stage 2 for now
Installing aftermarket slip on mufflers seams kind of stupid if you're going to end up with a voided engine warranty. I've seen several 10,000 mile engines implode. the warranty saved the owners big big cash.
In relation to the warranty on your powertrain being voided because of aftermarket pipes (11:30). Your warranty is not void simply because you put on non-HD slip ons. The Consent Decree (www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2017-12/documents/harleydavidson-cd.pdf) does not state anywhere that aftermarket exhaust will void your factory powertrain warranty.
What it does say is this:
Defendants shall deny all warranty claims for functional defects of powertrain components for any Harley-Davidson vehicle (Model Year 2017 or later) registered in the United States, if any Defendants have any information to show that such vehicle was tuned using a Tuning Product that was not covered by a California ARB Executive Order or otherwise approved by EPA.
The confusion over this has been insane. The motor company has been intentionally vague in communicating this to it's dealers which has lead to some dealers treating this as nothing and others claiming that anything outside screaming eagle parts void warranty.
The only ways that you can lose your powertrain warranty legally is A) that you install aftermarket parts (such as intake and/or exhaust) without tuning that causes issue with the motor because it's running too lean/rich. B) you tune (with or without aftermarket intake/exhaust) with a non-EPA compliant tuner. I don't know how many EPA compliant tuners are available for Harleys but I do know that the Screamin Eagle Pro Street Tuner IS EPA compliant.
So, you may visit a dealer that claims any aftermarket intake/exhaust will void your powertrain warranty. This is false and your option is to visit another dealer or fight to get that dealer to play ball. If you install full exhaust (headers back) and do not tune, you're going to cause issue with your motor, that's on you. If you install slip ons and don't tune and it somehow causes issue, it is on you to fight. That said, if you install slip ons and an intake and use the pro tuner to keep it within EPA compliant range, Harley CAN NOT deny your warranty claim for oil pump UNLESS they can somehow prove that your non-factory additions caused failure there.
This is really standard stuff. The reason this has gotten so blown out of proportion is only because the EPA forces Harley to void warranty if the ECU is mapped outside of EPA range or mapped with a non-EPA compliant tuner.
Hi John, here in Australia we have an EPA but it is mainly the police that enforce it through roadworthiness.
Technically, if you replace certain stock items on your bike with aftermarket items like loud pipes with no catalytic converter, you make the bike unroadworthy. If the police decide you are the unlucky one they can issue a notice to have the bike emission and noise tested. If it fails, then you can't put the bike back on the road until it is made compliant again, (or a hefty fine if you get caught riding it again).
Good one John. Our local dealer here in Kalifornia was in deep poo with EPA /CARB. Concerns they were on the hook for big fines. It all worked out. Ride Safe
Thanks so much for the info kinfolk that is great stuff since I just picked up a 2019 Road Glide Special. Which I love lol. Great video brother . Stay safe and keep up the great work 🤙🍻🍻🍻
Bought my 06 Street glide in 13. Bought the three year warranty, has a thunder max on it. Never voided the warranty. Then after the three year warranty was up, was optioned to by a five more years. My bike will be fifteen years old when my warranty is up. Still got my original ecm too.
Blooper reel please.
I think your blooper reel would be hilarious as sh!t.
You definitely made and explained a great point about a relationship with your dealer. I know some folks hate their local dealership and I have been to some that make me understand why but it seems like Chattahoochee is a really good dealership and I know my dealership is outstanding - Harley Davidson of Pensacola. My bike isn't under warranty but I have the PSP and they do me right EVERY time. Yes some things are pricey but the quality is always top notch. Nothing sucks more than saving a few bucks on something then realizing your deal is a hunk of crap so you have buy the good one anyway, which ultimately makes it cost even more. I'm not saying aftermarket stuff is all inferior but you have to know what you are buying. I have found that the dealership isn't going to sell stuff they know is crap.
P.S. P'Cola HD also treats their HOG chapter extremely well
I want to go down there one of these days. Pensacola seems like a cool place.
#1 and needed a John Maxwell video this morning!!! Thanks for the very informative video and your honest feedback on your tour pack.
@JohnMaxwell, great video! Simple explanation of how warranty works. And I never knew the dealership sometimes just eats the cost when MoCo won't.
I own a 1982 FXRS and a 2013 VRSCDX. Would LOVE to see some videos about the older bikes, like my old Shovel, and videos about the V-Rod.
I was told by two different techs that 1) My warranty will be voided and, 2) my warranty will NOT be voided adding slip-ons, SE cleaner and FP3. Which is it? Voided? Or not Voided.
Late, but it depends on the part. Some slip ons are pre approved because they fall in the stock OEM range of stats like flow rate and back pressure. Some are not and require a tuner. If those fall in the range of a Harley Tuner and have settings that support it, its ok. If its compatible with a Harley tuner, its voided.
This is why I haven't messed with my low rider s and it's extended warranty. As soon as that expires it will be a new day. This thing desperately needs a tune and a higher redline. My fork leg paint flaked off and they refused to cover it though, and their attitude and service department sucked, Thanks Indy Southside Harley.
Good video Glad to meet you at Laconia Harley-Davidson. They do all my work on my 2017 Road Glide Ultra
TAB performance products 2017 and up are now EPA compliant, I just went on their web site for a pair of the 4.5 BAM sticks, and here is what it says,
8-12 hp increase over stock exhaust*
Installs in minutes using a few simple tools
Comes with tips and baffle of your choice
Price is for the set (2 pipes)
50-State legal emissions replacement part on all 2017 - Up Harley-Davidson ® Touring models
Limited Lifetime Warranty
Dude.....Great Video👍👏
Fully Explained Subject Manner.
Keep those Videos coming. They are Awesime👍
A lot of good info I had no clue about with the epa. I don’t see harley as the bad guy anymore. Makes total sense
Happy 4th Brother🎉🎆👍 thank you for all of your hard work you put in to your videos. Please keep them coming.
Happy 4th!
Had the extended warranty on my previous bike. No issues. They handled any problems. My new bike? same thing. Local deal handled any issues. Great service. Then the corporation closed my local dealership. Great.
Cycle World Harley Davidson in Athens Ga does offer a service plan for 3 years. My 14 Ultra Ltd cost $1250 for unlimited services plus a battery. After 3 the services become free. Works great for me as I ride a lot.
I'm in Australia and ride a 18 SGS with a SE Stage 4 and a Redshift 472 cam dyno tuned with a Race Tuner.
Bike sumped ounce at about 7k kms and I took it back to the dealer and they changed my oil pump under warranty no questioned asked.
Sucks that your EPA is fucking HD around
There have been EPA warnings on our vehicles since the 70's. (Sound emissions and exhaust emissions) It was rarely enforced. There is a push in this country, by the left, to change our culture. They eventually want to do away with focil fuel engines. By making the regulations tighter, it's more expensive to design these engines. It's a long game. On the other hand, the EPA can be a good thing for keeping things clean here. But like every government agency in the U.S., they take things too far. Everything here in the states has politics in it. On a lighter note...hope to visit your country someday. I watched Million Dollar Bogan's trip around Australia. Looks like an awesome place.
Bro
It’s real Simple
If your gonna play
You gotta PAY.
Right.
It's pretty clear that your employer is better than many other dealers. I won't buy anything from mine after all the work I had to put into my bike after I bought it from them used. The real kicker was finding the fairing mounts all busted and parts with newer date codes on them. They never disclosed that it was wrecked. Also if a part comes in a pack of 2 or more for XXX price per pack, they will sell a single item from that pack for the same XXX price.
You’re likely referring to items that have a “package quantity” of x. The items are supposed to be sold individually, the MoCo just has them packaged in multiples. Promise they aren’t stealing from you. A lot of hardware is sold this way. Even one of the wheel bearings. The 9267s I believe.
@@TheHarleyTech but places like Surdyke sold the whole package to me for that XXX price. I think it was swingarm bearings that pushed me over the edge... Why would you ever replace a single bearing in a paired system? If one went bad, the other may be right behind it. Especially wheel bearings where a failure can have big repercussions. If that is the Harley way, then that's a bad one on the MOCO, package them as singles and not deceptively rip off the consumer. And I know bearings was only one of a couple of things I compared that eventually made me stop going to them even for parts. More and more mail order Drag Specialties parts keep going in this machine due to things like this.
According to the Magnuson-Moss Act, a vehicle manufacturer cannot automatically cancel your warranty just because you’ve installed aftermarket parts. This is an illegal practice. That said, if your aftermarket part somehow causes or contributes to a failure in your vehicle, the dealer may be able to deny your warranty claim-as long as they can prove the connection. In these cases, the burden of proof is entirely on the dealership.
When Harley starts going to small claims court on a frequent basis then they will start changing their powertrain warranty voided. If you put a set of mufflers on and your oil pump seizes the two items have nothing to do with each other. harely will lose that case
I agree 100%
And what if that tuner allows the motor to rev 500 rpm higher that the MoCo wants and they say that is what caused the oil pump to go out?
Great info bro! Im in NY and the EPA laws are strict. Nobody will pass the yearly inspection if the bike isnt EPA compliant.
Thank you for the video man, very good. I have to admit i am a tinker with all of my bikes, came from having Triumphs to Harley, did not think much about anything when i bought my 17 Road Glide. So on went the slip on's and the 447 cams and intake and of course now i need a tuner, what? HD tuner does what? or the lack thereof? I mean a good tuner and a good tune has never hurt a thing i have owned and was almost assumed in most dealerships that changing pipes etc meant a good tuner. Never ever have i had an issue. And bye the bye no one said a thing to me while i was buying the bike and talking about my plans, not one peep. Now i am being "forced" , "leveraged" to by the HD tuner or possibly void the power train, heck good dyno guys won't even look at that tuner on their units. So the market is captured, no choice mine or no ones, pretty sure their is a law about such things. Anyways i rant, i do what i want and if HD black lists me for something very simple then the only way to reply is not buy another one, share value is a very large stick. Peace
With that cam you won't gain much anyway so you might as well use the Pro Street and tune it at a dealership.
I my dealer actually sells woods cams and tts tuners. I asked about the sepst and they recommend the tts. Said if they did the install they'd stand behind it. Did BBC a 22x cam full exhaust and tts. It's so much fun now.
Good explanation of everything and have to agree with you, Harley can't be responsible for other manufacturers products. Exactly right about a relationship with dealer, Smoky Mountain Harley has took care of me for close to 30 yrs now no problem.
Get some rest brother..God Bless
So it sounds to me like whatever may void your warranty of a part of your motorcycle is up to the individual dealers interpretation. Many dealers are not all that nice and would rather shoot you down rather than build you up.
This is awesome John. Thanks for doing this video.
My transmission threw a bearing and marked up 1st and 6th gears. I honestly believe it was caused by my drive belt being to tight. I had just had it tightened at the dealership a week before. I may or may not have aftermarket exhaust and air cleaner. Mine was covered under HD warranty.
2 things for your information John.
In Australia we do have an "EPA" they just have not gone after tuners however, they love jumping down your throat about pipes louder then 94dB.
Second thing, when I bought my Victory the dealer installed a Victory performance airbox and 2 into 1 Vic pipes. They informed me that the warranty for these accessories was now 2 years instead of the normal 1 because it was installed at the time of purchasing the bike.
Oh and about tuners, my insurance policy does state that if I do have an after market tuner fitted then my insurance will be void. Not sure if that is across the board with other companies or just the one I am with.
Thanks for letting me know. That’s crazy about insurance. If we have that, no one enforces it
To not void the warranty, from what i understand, is stay away from doing engine, exhaust and major electrical work done by anyone other than HD. Also, they wont cover anything thats not HD.
Not a Motor Co. guy, but you are a great source of info. great video and good editing! be safe.
I changed my grips out at Sturgis one year and about 3 months later my cruise control switch went out and the warranty company (ESP) denied coverage because I had changed out my grips. The grips change out had nothing to do with the switch according to the HD tech, but the ESP guys still said no. Second time was on a hairline crack in front wheel that ESP said was a factory defect and they don't cover factory defects, just road hazards that damage wheels. Only had to deal with ESP two times and both times I got screwed, so I don't think I'll be buying any more ESP in the future.
To answer your question mr Maxwell yes in the automotive space they have to prove that the aftermarket part caused the damage ie muffler on a civic dose not automatically void the warranty claim for a faulty clutch in the trans. I would support Harley if it was just about falling into epa compliance and voiding warranty with race tuners or if someone put a aftermarket cam on the bike ect. But to void say a claim on a transmission because i put Vance Hines slip on mufflers on my bike is a major reaction going along way. Not only that i have been told that even if i use screamin eagle parts if install them it would void my warranty the same. Basically my take away is dont buy the extended warranty because you will do something to void it save the 1400 or so bucks. I will be getting with Harley about what i have to do to cancel that for sure lol. I get why Harley Davidson is reacting this way i just think they have overreacted.
Too happy to hear that the warranty deal is reactionary to government oversight rather than the company's insecurity over the quality of their product. Appreciate the info and the help your videos give.
John...great video and content as always. I have a question for clarification dealing with the M8. I was told by my dealer here in Florida that I can have after market head pipes, mufflers, and air breather and as long I use a Screaming Eagle tuner it will not void my power train warranty. I understand it should not cover those specific parts, but will the engine components still be covered by using the Harley tuner??
Dealer told me same as you with the header pipe, I went with Vance N Hines Power duals same as on my last bike, it came with reinhart slip ons, i only kept the reinharts on because a close friend passed a couple yrs ago and had them reinharts on his bike always, other wise it would be all vance n hines
One thing you missed is it can still get voided even if you don't plug into DT. They have gone through past work orders and voided bikes. In the past and still right right the only way to void warranty was to let tech services know the bike has been modified in anyway and then they would flag the bike for powertrain or cosmetic stuff dependingon what was added. There is two more things that will void powertrain and that is trailers or trailer hitches and massive flags on the back of bikes.
John, did I void my powertrain warranty by installing V&H slip-ons? I get your point of view and agree. 👍🤘
No. If they hook up the shop computer to your bike it will read the factory tune. Therefore harley's software won't void the warranty.
I called H-D warranty asking that same question, they said it “Can”. Sort of a vague answer, oh well. Dealership says they don’t put a sniffer in your tailpipe so using the street tuner And actually changing heads and mufflers is totally fine. I believe that is where Maxwell is saying your relationship with the dealership might come into play.
Btw, my local Harley Dealers Service department sucks. Wish you were closer.
There's no smog test or inspections of motorcycles in California. The second a bike leaves the dealer, almost always the cat and other smog stuff is thrown in a dumpster. However, there are emissions laws for new bike sales manufacturers have to meet to sell them. Once they are sold, they are not enforced.
Dealerships in Australia won’t cover anything other than Screamin Eagle parts bar exhausts, just slip ons with no tune are fine but change the header pipes and we have to purchase the HD tuner, if we get it dyno tuned properly the warranty is void, if we install a cam or barrels that aren’t SE the warranty is void, what sucks is the tuner costs over $600 here and once warranty is up is useless, it’s a use one time only rip off and can only be used on one bike: at least BMW’s gadget allows (I think) six bikes/VINs not just one
Since there seems to be credible disagreement in the comments, can Maxwell settle it saying whether slip-ons void the powertrain warranty or not if no tuning is done....
If the slip ons are EPA compliant than your warranty is good; if not compliant, then the terms of the agreement with the EPA force HD to void your power train warranty.
Damn. Well I guess I’ll be re-installing the stock ones when it goes in for service.
@@rickcastillo3573 Good idea, it voids the warranty if the cat or the oxy sencers are in the muffers you take off.
A little more info about slip-ons, but it depends on the part itself if its void or not. Some slip ons are pre approved because they fall in the stock OEM range of stats like flow rate and back pressure AND meet EPA guidelines. Johns new pipes had no more catalytic converter, which means that Harley cannot support them as they have to comply with EPA rules. Some slip ons are plug and play, and some require a tuner. If the tuning fall in the range of a Harley Tuner and have settings that support it, its ok. If its not compatible with a Harley tuner, and you use one that takes it out of "EPA or our engineers says this is ok" range then its voided. it all makes sense with the right info and insight, sadly it can be pretty confusing and a universal rating system would do wonders in being certain in a case of an unexpected voiding and crappy experience.
It is my understanding that, under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, the company would have to prove that the changes I made to the bike caused the failure. So, if I put Rinehart slip-ons on my bike, (which are EPA compliant and sold at most dealerships) and the engine throws a rod, then Harley would have to prove that the slip-ons caused the engine to fail in order to void the warranty. Something tells me this will end up in the courts before it's all said and done.
I think you’re right, but I’ve never read it. And know it would be cheaper to buy a new flywheel than battle HD in court. Maybe some rich dude will take it to court, though. Just on principle l.
I took my pre owned twin cam back for inner primary bearing. I had gone stage two prior to this. Moco repaired my bike, parts and labor, minus 50 dollar deductible.
Buying a new Heritage check the panniers on the inside before you take it out of the showroom. Didn’t look inside my 2019 panniers for two weeks and found the leather inside pulling away from the plastic body causing the panniers top opening to rub and wear the out body leather covering. Harley warranty have said this is WEAR AND TEAR ! After two weeks? Come on. Anyway end result is Harley are ignoring me and the dealer is ignoring me so it’s either put up with the problem or go to court. Slightly spoiling what is a great bike. Harley warranty is not the best in my experience.
The Screamin Eagle heavy breather for an 88TC says its for race applications only. I didn’t care because I’m in Pa and we don’t do any emissions crap on motorcycles.
One thing that saved my warranty on my "Integrated LED" turn signals was, I gave them my name! Bought mirrors in Scottsdale,AZ the stem broke in TX and I live in Denver. High Country Harley replaced said broken mirror because of 1 year man warranty. BUT! If I had not given the sales person my name at time of purchase I would not have gotten mirror covered. So that might be something to mention. Or at least that was what High Country Harley told me. So! If you buy parts OTC and install yourself make sure to give the sales person first and Last name. Just in case!
Harley loves to screw their customers with voided warranties. I work at a police department that for years would use these www.mtcvoyager.com/standard-trike-kit/ in the winter months to allow the officers to ride in the winter. One day Harley decides we didn't make those and we are not making profit off them so we would void any suspension warranty claims as a result of the voyager kits. Anyone who knows how these officers ride their bikes they beat the hell out of them hoping curbs, riding them down stairs, etc, it is not beyond the realm that these suspensions will get beaten up, but they used these as an excuse to force the department to buy their crappy side car addons that cost 3 times what the basic voyager kit does. If they are not making the profit off the addon they will do everything to try and convince you with the threat of a voided warranty to change your ways.
A buddy of mine has an Indian Scout and his warranty got voided by doing a full stage 1 with a tune. Just slip ons only was fine. The addition of the air cleaner voided it. And of course a tune was needed after the air cleaner was added.
Thanks for clarifying, buddy...I just bought a 2019 Heritage and some confusion about how all that warranty schtuff worked. Thanks again!
Just so you know, we don’t have motorcycle inspections in California yet. However, CARB, the Cali version of EPA, has made it illegal to dyno tune a bike here. I have to go to Nevada to have my bike tuned. There are massive fines for shops and dealers who dyno bikes here. My local Harley dealer has their dyno collecting dust in the back of the shop. It’s really sad. California didn’t go after consumers who illegally modify their vehicles. They went after the shops who have the money to pay outrageous fines.
Hey John, you're vids are hard core. What I want to know is what tunes are you playin? Gimme some names of those bands man. EJ from Dallas.
That was was your best video yet so far Mr. Maxwell! It SHOULD push you well closer to 200K subscribers. Keep up the good work John. And as for the epa? Well it needs to find out why farts smell bad? and we do humans exhale carbon dioxide.
Oh man, one of the rare times I have been disappointed by you John. The ONLY things that I believe people want to know is If you have a new stock M8 Harley and change one or more of the following does it void ALL Factory (MoCo) Drivetrain Warranty claims:
Mufflers
Air Cleaner
Tuner
Head Pipes
CAM
And, in each of the above, does it matter if it’s an official HD part or an aftermarket part?
And, lastly, in each of the above, does it matter if the owner installs it or the dealer installs it?
We get the first 60 days new bike stuff, so let’s just say that it’s after the initial 60 days.
Thank John.
Kenny
I thought I answered that. I mean, beat it to death in over 20 minutes.
Any change to the exhaust voids your power train warranty, and the tuner is read by the computer and will auto void power train. I also explained why this is happening.
John Maxwell you’re making a blanket statement that I find hard to believe. I bought from HD a SE Stage 1 kit, and installed it per the instructions. SE Pro Street Tuner, Ventilator AC and Mufflers, 100% HD. And, you are saying that MoCo will no longer warranty my 24 Mo drive train? Really? This is REALLY important John. Urlacher said the same on his channel, which just cannot be reality.
John, outstanding, and now I'm late for work
I know the feeling well.
Harley-Davidson’s powertrain warranty IS the Harley-Davidson warranty. A friend’s CVO engine burned up (sumping) while riding next to me. A common problem that required a new engine, however, if he’d changed his muffler he would have been screwed. Sumping is unrelated to the EPA or slip-on mufflers and is a shitty copout by the MoCo.
AV84USA my thing is, if you keep your factory mufflers and put them back on before taking the bike to the dealership (believing that they’ve never recorded the aftermarket part being installed), will it still be “ok.” I’m sure mufflers aren’t shown on ECM scans
@@2004sadmanco that's a great question
The dealership here in Jacksonville puts aftermarket slip ones on some of their new bikes on the floor. They use it as a sales point to sell the mufflers. Example, I put MK45s on my bike after hearing the ones on the sales floor....had them put them on.
You should talk to the dealers here in belgium. Even if you replace a screw they void your warranty. It's horrible here.
All thats covered on my bike at the dealer i bought it from is the frame rims an forks. The dealer 30 min away will cover everything but engine internals. Both did about the same amount of work on it an its a mix of HD an aftermarket parts. Im betting you can guess which one i spend more money at an recommend to everyone thier in Green Bay WI. Good people 👍
Great videos!! just noticed the Ranger emblem and Folded Flag on your wall there.
What if you just added some aftermarket slip-on Mufflers without a tuner I don't understand how they could void your entire powertrain warranty over some slip on mufflers if you didn't mess with the tune of the engine, and if that was the case could i not just take off the slip on mufflers put the stock ones on take it in to the Harley shop I mean would you even really know
EPA shit. It's not harley it's the corrupt EPA making them do this
Slip ons on the softails remove the cats. On touring it doesn’t....
Harley had their Screaming Eagle stuff tested and certified EPA compliant at great expense for each configuration. Testing and certification is not cheap!... If the aftermarket exhaust & tuner companies spent the time and money they could also potentially pass the certification and in theory then there would be no reason to void the warranty... So in essence Harley is not the bad guy here.. get it?
AFTER they got busted by the EPA, Harley and VW pulling the same shit then expecting the customer to pay jacked up prices for parts because they are “EPA approved”... get it?
Yea i get it...
As usual, it’s the Gubmint
@@Deaddriftbum you didn't listen, no judgement made, came to a "financial" arrangement which is what the EPA was after in the first place. Didn't get "caught", just pushed to make it more difficult for consumers. Government at it's best.
As always, yer a common sense kinda guy.....simple easy to understand video
It sucks that the EPA does this. I’ve had to explain it to people. I am exited to work with my harley dealership to see how the pro street tuner does