Llama M82: Gabilondo Copies the Beretta (But More Complicated)
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- Опубликовано: 6 авг 2024
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The Llama M82 was adopted as the new Spanish Army service pistol to replace aging Star Model B pistols. The design of the side is mechanically almost identical to a Beretta 92, while the frame and controls include a lot of DNA from the commercial Llama Omni. It was adopted in 1986, with the first military deliveries taking place in 1987.
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Beretta: "Everybody, stop stealing my idea!" Walther: "Dude, seriously?"
absolutely....
Wait...wouldn't Walther speak in German and Beretta in Italian? THIS MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL! 😉
Beretta: You stole my factory during World War Il, you owe me.
I call the Beretta 92 "Walther" all the time!
@@WeerdBeard Beretta is better than Walther 100%
It would be a fun challenge to build a 92 with as many different varieties as possible in one gun like a global collective clone
The Heinz 57 pistol. Enrico 57?
You can do that with a CZ75.
@@mickvonbornemann3824tuco was his name wasn't it?
Also I don't think this would be a good idea because some guns have their parts fitted in more detail as it's being assembled. I mean it varies very widely how well the parts will work in some cases, some cases not at all.
@@the_original_Bilb_Ono that's why it would be fun
Just a small note, in spanish the "y cia." is an abbreviation of "y compañía", just like in english "and co." is an abbreviation of "and company". So it should be read "Gabilondo y compañía"
Still using it in my unit.
Despite the complicated parts, it went into service, because enlisted men (conscripts back then) didn't get one issued often, and NCOs and officers were supposed to give it to unit armorers if it had any trouble.
After four decades of wear and tear (they weren't treated nicely), the most used ones develop cracked slides (in a thinner part below ejection port), and loose safeties.
Another nightmare problem comes if the locking piece freezes in place, usually due to breaks in the pin that disengages it (had one of those in my watch a couple months ago).
Creia que ahora llegarian las USP alemanas
Very interesting, I understand that a lot of people really like and trust the Beretta but I don't know if I'll ever come around. Never was a fan of it and when I heard it was being replaced I felt happy. No malice towards those who like the Beretta/M9, and yes it seems to be a highly accurate and reliable pistol... I just don't like it. And I don't like the open-slide design. And yeah it's still kinda smarts to know that the Beretta is what replaced 1911s almost entirely in the US Military.
Yeah I'm a bit of a fudd, it is what it is, I can't help having the biases that I hold. First handgun I ever bought was a 1911... and I'm not even American. I'm Canadian lol The handgun is legendary, and I learned how to do a near-complete disassembly of it with my eyes closed within about 30-35 minutes, including the sear/disconnect/grip panels, etc. I kept the mainspring compressed in the mainspring housing though, and didn't remove the 'tail' from the hammer. I dunno what other people call it but I call it the 'tail.'
I do quite like the US Military's nickname for a Jerry can hose... stay classy, commie-destroying psychos. Freedom and liberty now and forever.
@@normanmccollum6082 Some Star B (or Super) are still around at guard posts in some bases, never fully replaced by the Llama. As 9mm 1911s go, that one is a solid chunk of reliable steel.
@@cosaqueexiste9647 The USP bought by the Spanish Army is the civilian model, and replacement is slow. Units still with the Llama are supposed to receive USPs sooner or later.
But those are going to be worn out USPs replaced at "combat units" by newer ones.
@@RCZM64 what do you mean the civilian model?
I tested the M82 quite a bit(Nobody wanted to shoot pistols in the unit I was serving as a draftee back in the day, so I shot almost the whole ammo allotment for it)and years later I manage to put a couple hundred rounds through a Beretta 92. I have to say that it was not hard to transition from one to the other because of the similarity. But even in the mid 90s, the M82s were already shot up and badly treated. Mine didn't shoot half bad even in the state I found it, but as you have shown here, they were a pain to disassemble and clean.
Note: In Spain we have the Cuerpo Nacional de Policía(which is in charge of robbery, homicide and drug enforcement in urban areas) and the Guardia Civil, which does the same on roads, rivers, territorial waters and rural areas. Furthermore, the GC takes care of traffic accidents and road control, like the US State Police. The Guardia Civil is structured more like a military corps and its members are prepared to deploy in war zones(Its origins were military in nature) unlike the Policía Nacional, which only does embassy protection outside Spain's borders. I'm nitpicking, I know. But just for the saje of accuracy.
Viva la Guardia Civil!
"Cia" is not a word, it's an abbreviation. It stands for "Compañía".
thats what the CIA would like you to believe
Feels to me like anytime a company wants to copy the Beretta 92 (if they aren't already making clones using existing Beretta tooling like Taurus), they essentially just make the same gun but with the exposed barrel covered up to make it seem "different".
@@nickaschenbecker9882The weak spot on the slides is, where the locking latch engages it, as that is the thinnest place. Generally speaking, a Browning type lockup with a tilting barrel, has merits over the latch type, when it comes to long term use.
These came on service while I was assigned to a joint US/Spanish operational unit. They were not thrilled with it. The M82 was replaced by HK USP (9mm in regular units and .45ACP in the Special Forces). The latter also uses the Glock 43 (9mm).
I was in charge of 25 of those during my military service. Cutting edge back then....
The Spanish arms manufacturing industry has been completely silent in the 21st century, and I haven't seen a best-selling Spanish firearm for many years. Seven pin box pistols made in Spain were once very popular.
Well, mostly because there is no small arms industry anymore. Llama, star and astra went out of business on the 90s.
"y Cia" means "and Comp" as in and Company.
Usually when you read it, you say "Gabilondo and Company"/"Gabilondo y Compañia"
The only problem the Llamas M82 had were the firing pin, it tend to broke arround the 1000 rounds or less, on the Armada it was mostly replaced by the Star 30M but in some Tercios they decided to replace the firing pins for later properly heat threated ones and they remain in service on the Armada, the Guardia Civil and even some police units; but they're beign replaced by H&K USP-Cs on the Armada, FN-P9s and M9A1s on the Guardia Civil and H&K USP-Cs, Glock 19s and Walther P99s on the police. The Llama M82s were going to be sold to Morocco and what we call 'Guinea Ecuatorial', Senegal and Nigeria but... some has been sold/sent to Ucraine as military aid, along with some CETME-Ls/LCs/LVs/, Cs/CVs and CETME Ameli LMGs.
"Gabilondo y Cía." means "Gabilondo and company"
Gabilondo: personal surname in basque (that, as many other surnames in other languages has its translation and it means "close to the way to the top")
y Cía: its an abbreviation that means "and company"
In the army we hated to disassemble it to clean it and they had been mistreated a lot because at that time it was compulsory military service and they had passed through many hands, the oldest ones were withdrawn in 1995.
That's why in the Greek army conscripts don't get side arms 😄 only folding stock G3 if they need something more compact 😏
@@Pavlos_Charalamboussame in Singapore, only rifles for conscripts
It may be a beretta clone but it looks more like a brother. Distinct enough to have its own identity.
I want one.
You know, I once found a gun just like this made by Taurus. But I couldn't find any information that it exists. It's a ghost.
I have like so many jokes for this ok her it goes: The Non-Jewish Beretta because he kept his foreskin, The M9 with the "Magnum Condom", The Guy that Walter's wife cheated on him with.
@@CyberVirtual It's funny because many modern European Jews can trace Italian ancestry.
The M82 and Sp1 are basically Dolphin slide versions of the 92f.
Ian, I believe that cía is short for compañía which means company, or , Gabilondo and company.
It´s correct, Greetings from Argentine Patagonia. Es correcto, saludos desde la Patagonia Argentina
Spanish Army policy aside, I would not be terribly shocked if in a year or two they popped up as used guns on Classic Firearms.
It’s been very difficult to find these in the USA for a long time. Ask me how I know 😂
It really whips the Llama's ass!
Winamp!
Rock over London. Rock on, Chicago. Pontiac! We build excitement.
Being shot by a llama sounds like a scenario from "Llamas with Hats."
Kaaaaaaarrrrrle!
If I ever get my hands on one of those I will name it "Carl".
ah... nice to see the forward guides
btwn frame and slide (inverted)
AND how they made the slide
WIDER right where Beretta
made their recent ones taller
to beef up against possible cracking
The start of the WonderNines! A beautiful pistol, IMHO. Great lines.
Cuando en España, se fabricaban pistolas y revólveres. Hermosa!!
Had not seen one before now. Very good looking pistol.
Seeing this makes me realize there’s just something so sexy about exposed barrels like on the p38/p1 and 92.
I can see where Lyttleton Engineering Works got their inspiration for the Vektor SP-1
My llama 1911 LF with a little hand fitting has ran for thousands and thousands of round.
My service sidearm on the Spanish Army Volunteer Reserves ❤
Having owned both a LLama M82 and a Star Model 30,I think I can say that the Guardia Civil got the better end of the deal on the pistol competition. The Star was quite accurate, although a big (BIG!) heavy pistol. The M82 is a slightly less big pistol, but my example was, well, you'd hit the target somewhere...mostly...kind of. I sold it off years ago for not much, since Spanish pistol collectors are thin on the ground and tend to be poor :) Maybe I got a lemon, I don't know, but Llamas in the US tend to have a rather spotty reputation.
The model 30 also has that damnable mag safety and magazines are unobtainium. I have a 30PK brand new in box and a lordly one magazine for it.
At the end the Guardia Civil replaced the Stars with Berettas 92FS...
@@Rublo01 And right now the Guardia Civil has the Israeli-made Ramon pistol, which some deride as a sort of low-cost Glock clone.
@@nickaschenbecker9882 Yes, lots of criticism. Never heard anything about the pistol and its manufacturer before.
Wow, that's a cool looking pistol.
TIL that "Llama" is flame in Spanish after thinking that the company was named after the South American camelid for the past 30 years.
Which begs the question: was the first llama a conquistador saw on fire?
I’d love to get one of these to go along with my CETME Ls!
Looks more like a vector z88 sp01... great review man 😎🤙
Beautiful pistol!
I love the Star and Astra pistols, had friends who owned couple.
Looks like if someone was making a beretta in a videogame and had to change it up just a little bit.
11:05 At least it didn't do the thing that happens if you go and open up a fly fishing reel, where a spring goes _"SPROINK!"_ and all the components are flung across the room, many of them never to be found again.
Every country has a 92 clone
Don't think there's an actual 92 clone in the US..?
And 1911 clone, if not licensed product.
@@lairdcummings9092 Beratta has a factory in Tennesse
More like Spain dgaf about your patent
And in Finland we use clone clone 😂😂
I'm a Big Fan of Llama I presently own the Max-II 45C/F and Throughly Enjoy Every round I put down range!!! 🤠👍
There was quite a significant battle at Vittoria once.
I had a Berretta P92 back in the early 1980s, before the US Military contract. When I first saw the Llama M82 in this video, my 1st thought was how much the safety resembled the P92's safety. Now I understand why.
My grandfather had one. I just wish I knew to what family member it went… I’d offer a significant sum to have it.
Love my three llama 1911's.
A great very interesting video and pistol Mr.Gun Jesus.Have a good one.
Still got an old magazine presenting this firearm!
Interresting video as usual !👍
Thanks for the correct pronunciation! Even that is part of history. This is, to my eye, the best-looking Beretta 92 pattern pistol yet.
I do like the closed slide a lot more. just seems more practical
The exterior looks great.
7:50 nice job, Mr. Wick!
Back in the day I had a Llama sub compact .45, it never functioned correctly, there was a defect on the slide rails and at the time I wasn't an good at troubleshooting or repair lol
I also had a Commanche III in 357 that was actually a sweet revolver
I've owned a Llama Mark III (imported by Stoeger) in .380 for 50 years. Talk about robust, I've never had a FTF, stovepipe, jam or any other problem in the thousands of rounds I've put through it. All it does is shoot when I pull the trigger.
First pistol I bought, and I wouldn't take for it.
Hey, what’s up Ian if you don’t mind me, saying, I think the US military should’ve made a request to Beretta to have that closed slide design in my opinion. I think it would be more reliable, and I also think the closed slide looks cooler on a Beretta patterned gun
What, ive been pronouncing llama wrong all my life? Thats insane 😂
Me too & I thought that was the name of the company as well.
🦙🦙🦙
Very sad that the go to action these days is to destroy surplus and old inventory. I mean I get why they do it now in Europe (What happened with the UK and the FAL's they provided to African countries) but it's just not gonna bode well for future arms collecting.
The complexity of the pistol is probably due to that prior contract with Astra where they subcontracted the smaller bits. More parts = more money right?
I actually seen one of these here in Kendallville a couple of years back.
"Yes, I own an M82."
Wonder if the beretta compact barrel would fit. Also why does the longer barrel prevent being fit to the slide? My 92 barrels fit my 92 compact. Never tried firing it that way....
It used to be that folks laughed at you if you carried a Spanish firearm. I never did. Over my 24 years as a cop, I purchased and carried several, I had a Llama .380 for off duty, later got a Star PD .45 for that purpose, I still have the Astra A100 in .45 ACP that I carried as a duty weapon for the last 8 years on the PD, and she still shoots great despite eating dozens and dozens of boxes of 230 grain jacketed round nose for practice and some glorious hollow points on duty. I also had a pair of Star BM and a BMK one in chrome the other in blue. I never had a problem with any of the firearms, while the 1911 clones didn't look as classy as the Colt's, they still did the job just as well.
Thanks
That moment when LAMA made a beretta with a slide that isn’t cut out on the top….
I see that unlike Beretta, they could figure out how to make the safety actually mirrored, and not having a little vestigial nub that's utterly useless on the right side of the gun.
Honestly, I don't even like the slide safety in the first place. The M1911 safety absolutely curbstomps the Beretta's, and I will never know why Beretta decided to put the safety there.
I happened to use this pistol the year I spent guarding the entrance of a Spanish Army base (between May 2020 and May 2021). Maintenance was poor and the single time along that year several of us went to the range only one gun out of four worked properly, having in the end to take turns to use the one that worked; the other three were capable of firing no more than two rounds before jamming for whatever reason (i.e., poor maintenance). We kept using those specific four pistols anyway while guarding the entrance, though...
Operational units make use of the H&K USP, while Security Units use it to guard military bases. The USP is issued to officers and NCOs, with enlisted men and women being taught about it (and the Llama) once or twice a year every two or three years, at most, pretty much like many other guns and material; for example, in the seven years I spent in the Army, I only fired the .50 cal. Browning M2 just fucking once (yep, I'm angry about that).
Excellent video of a very unique pistol, have been trying to find one for many years, they are Hens teeth here in the USA....
To be inspired by someone else's design is one thing, to copy it is something else...
The Llama literally coming apart in Ian's hands. 🤣🤣🤣
LoL, companies "Star", "Astra" and "Llama", so it's "star", "star" and "flame".
I have a Llama Omni in .45 ACP. Finish so smooth that it shows fingerprints before I touch it. Carried it as my sidearm in Europe and then into Desert Storm. Fired exactly 12 rounds in anger.
That slide looks like a copy of the phrobis slide produced for the M9 when there was some cases of frame cracking.
I've shot both the M82 and the M30 quite a bit. My step-dad had a M82 and it was, in a lot of ways ,a nicer pistol than a Ruger p85, a little sleeker.
The Ruger P85 was apiece of shooting railway. Ruger tried hard and succeeded at making an ugly, ugly gun.
well DAMN... back in the day, mid 70's I bought a nice Llama 38 Super 911 style pistola...
If I had this gun I would ask it for a little something. You know, for the effort.
Some marketing wonk at Gabilondo:
"Hey guys, we change the 9 to an 8. Nobody will notice we copied from anyone."
I would like to see a review of the Llama M-87 comp gun.
Kudos for trying to get the pronunciation right. Appreciated! “Y cia.” as in Gabilondo y cia is Spanish for “and co.” so one could say Gabilongo and co. and I think would sound more natural
The gun that was bizarre to me was the Daewoo with the Tri-action trigger. It was double action and single action cocked and locked. The strange "triple" was the ability to push the hammer down and carry hammer down yet single action. They literally were solving a problem that didn't exist. They didn't sell well at the gun shop I worked at.
Hi. You mean that you cock the hammer, then pull it back, squeeze the trigger, release the hammer and let the hammer down as you release the trigger,
So you could de-cock it by carrying the hammer down with trigger
I wanted one of these so bad as a kid
Bear in mind that the Vektor and the Llama M82 are copies of the Beretta M92 "Compact but using the fifteen shot rather than thirteen shot Beretta grip frame.
Thats why rappers say:Hit em with da Llama!
Love the forgotten weapon series
I had 1 of these , it was very, very picky on ammo. only FMJ would run reliably. 1 of the few weapons I every sold. I will never by another.
Illegitimate child between a Beretta 92 and a Browning BDA9 (Browning HP-DA).
I just had an “OH SHIT” moment while watching this.
I just got home from work and went to wipe the lint off my Beretta 92fs and holster. Wiped the gun, set it on my bed, went to wipe the holster, gun slides off bed, hits the floor and the safety snapped off. When it fell it was pointing at my leg. (I have a loft. It fell ~5.5 feet)
At least you didn't need a soft hammer/ mallet to knock it apart AND back together. Ask me about my Ruger Mark II Target two tone made for Sportman's Warehouse.
I'm sorry, but when I see "Llama" on this channel I can't help but imagine a Spanish soldier pulling an acutal llama around a battlefield on a leash and goading it to spit at the enemy XD
I don't see how this is complicated. It's almost identical to a 92 pattern gun, even in the frame components. The trigger bar and spring assembly work the same, and besides the mainspring housing coming off like that, the hammer and strut interface look almost the same.
I had the latter made, Model 87 target version of the same pistol. Never shot it in competition, just as a little used range toy. As I remember it shot OK, but it was a oversized heavy clunker as compared to my G 17.
Although I bought mine used, it was still quite expensive for the time frame, ( mid 90's). This is the one of the reasons, that the 82's and 87's are so uncommon on this side of the pond. Stoeger was the only importer, and they priced them astronomically. The M82 was priced out at more than twice the going price of the G17. While the Model 87 was even more expensive. As I recall the MSRP was something on the order of $1,600?. Don't recall the exact price? But the late 80's/early 90's Gun Digests have them listed/priced in their catalog sections
It doesn’t seem that surprising that they didn’t simplify the disassembly. In a military context yeah you want it simple so that soldiers can take apart and clean their weapons in the field, but in a policing context that’s not really relevant. If you really need to clean the weapon you can do so at the police station where you’ve got all the time you need and a clean workspace. A few extra finicky steps aren’t actually that big a deal and it probably cut down on design/manufacturing costs to leave it as is.
Why does sticking a jalf inch of barrel out the front keep you from assembling and using the pistol with the longer Barrer?
I think that was probably a mistake. there are extended barrels for the Beretta
I think you might have made a mix-up mistake. I don't see any reason why a longer barrel would not work in the Llama.
I hear the elbownians are looking for a new pistol.
My inteoduction to Llima was a nickle .22 Especial with ivory grips a woman carried in "Die another day" over 20 yeara ago in a theigh holster.
Looks like a Beretta 92 and a Ruger P95 had a baby.
Kinda reminds me when the Japanese entered the fishing reel markets. The Diwali millionaire baitcadting reel was an exact copy of the Garcia ambassadeur reels. 😊
Besides the backstrap, the rest of the internals look the exact same as a 92.
I say this only to help you, I'm not trying to insult anyone, and I especially do not want to insult Ian, but the "cía" is the abbreviation of compañía (normally you would translate this as company, but with the y (and) there, it really means something like friends, or business partners or family members participating in the venture). So Gabilondo y cía is more like Gabilondo and Friends.
Or Gabilondo and his posse, if you will.
Other than the mag safety, I like it better than the Beretta. Hate that open slide.
My Llama is a 1911 that is hard to find grips for.
Or a Walther P38.