Thank you sir, just trying show how I get by doing it with limited tools and limited budget. And thank you for watching my channel. Its very much appreciated.
I haven't built any rears in 20 years, but I did built hundreds of 9" rears for 23 or 24 years, often with even fewer tools. If the housing and pinion support were original factory Ford car parts, the original pinion support shim was almost always a 0.020" shim. The, "old" Richmond gears usually worked best with a 0.019" shim. Later, quality control with Richmond gears seemed to changed with new owners. The newer gear brands, such as US Gear and Motive Gear seemed to usually work best with a 0.018" shim. In the old days, I'd remove the Ford 0.020" and used only the old Richmond gears, usually with a 0.019" shim. When I had to use the newer brands of gears, I found that an 0.018" shim was usually best. 40 years ago, I don't recall seeing shims for the pinion bearing spacer. The spacers were available, precision ground to length, in 0.001" increments and I found with a factory Ford pinion support, a 0.470" spacer was usually best, but sometimes I might have used a very slightly larger size. When mounting a ring gear, I'd wipe the back side with a file, to make sure it was clean and straight. Blue Loctite calls for cleaning the threads with Loctite primer, as it can't tolerate any oil residue, like Red Loctite can. I'd fit the ring gear lining up the bolt holes and hold it with a couple of clean bolts. Then I'd apply Loctite INSIDE the bolt holes of the ring gear, as coating the bolts will cause trapped air to press out of the bolt holes and the Loctite wouldn't reach the bottom of the holes. I'd tighten the caps, without torquing them. I would run the side bearings in, to align the bearings and cups, then loosen them. I'd install the pinion support, with the pinion installed and torqued with the 0.470" spacer. I'd use a 0.019" shim for the "old" Richmond gears and usually a 0.018" shim for the newer brand gears.I'd keep the non-ring gear side bearing loose and tighten the ring gear side being for zero backlash. If a hole didn't line up with the lock on the ring gear side, I'd rotate it to adjust lining up a hole with the lock. Then I'd tighten the non-ring gear side until there was resistance. Then I'd tighten two holes more of turn. if it didn't line up with the lock, I'd tighten it to line up. This spread the housing and opened the backlash to just about right. Then I'd torque the caps. Factory pinion support shim = 0.020" Old Richmond Gear shim = 0.019"(30 years ago) Most newer gears = 0.018"(?) (20 years ago) Pinion bearing spacer = 0.470" ( some people choose slightly larger to reduce drag/heat) Ring gear backlash = Side bearing two hole turn tightened from zero backlash. I would check the patterns on the gears.
This is GREAT DETAIL that does nothing but help racers even more. You dang sure know what your doing because those numbers are exactly what I see A LOT :) not always, like you said check the patterns but this right here gets you dang close to be able to check those patterns. much appreciated sir!
@@DIRTRACELIFE Another dirt racer here and my experience is the same. .018-.020 is almost always in the ballpark. I always start with .020. . Couple of things I might add... I use the old pinion nut with the pinch ground off while I working on setting up the pinion preload. Also its real common to have to do some grinding on the case around the pinion support bearing to clear some of the deeper gears. This is a very good video.
I ran across this searching for a good video to set up a new Yukon housing for my drag race truck. This is LIGHT YEARS beyond that garbage video I watched on Summit youtube channel. And I now know for sure that my setup is assembled wrong. So I will be going out tomorrow and fixing the stuff I caught in this video. Thank you very much for taking the time and effort to post this.
Great informative video without the BS off topic comments you see in most other videos. Ive got a 68 Camaro with a 9" ford rearend that feels sloppy and it squeals. I've never rebuilt a rearend before, but after watching this video I feel confident that I can rebuild mine correctly. Thank you
Thank you for the great explanation along with the video. Dad and I both want to thank you. This was my first time doing this and it went flawlessly. Along with the pointer of the end measurement to the plane we were able to do the math and shim it perfectly on the first shot. Thanks again!
I've had a junk yard find 9" in the garage that I've been nervous to take apart because I've never done it before. After watching this, I'm excited to gut it and re-gear it! Thanks for the content!
The best Video I have seen so far on this topic! Thank you very much. Will rebuild my Ford 8 inch with new bearings and another gear ratio this winter! As far as I know it's build the same than the 9".
The reason that the helper bearing is inside the housing is because of the low position of the pinion gear to the ring gear and to give the pinion the necessary support from trying to walk away from the ring gear because it is in about the 5 o'clock position on the ring gear Rather than the 3 o'clock position. The 3 o'clock position is much better reference point for durability, but sets the pinion much higher in relationship to the center of the case. This was done for the reason that Ford did not want the high hump tunnel in their cars, so they lowered the gear, which caused strength and bearing and gear issues wear issues. This support from the internal support bearing remedied these issues.
I build gears locally in our area for lots of racers, and I used a bent 31 and 28 spline axle and cut them 6-10 inches long on the gear side and welded it all the way around to a piece of angle iron to set in the vise tighten it down and then slide your spool and untorqued ring gear onto then proceed to torque with no slip. Just a tip, other than that you do a great job
@@DIRTRACELIFE I’ve learned that any ratio with 5 or 6 pinion teeth stay slightly above center on the drive side and any gear with more pinion teeth you can be slightly lower. The less pinion teeth the more prone to stripping the pinion gear. I’m just as picky as you when it comes to shims and measurements and patterns though!
Hmmmm, new information. Less pinion teeth = make sure you have a good deep bite. Yes, agreed that makes sense. I'm taking that and adding it to my criteria :)
Yeah I've never messed with building a gear and me and my buddy he just had somebody do him a 620 gear he was running a 650 and with the 388 it's not a big horsepower motor I think I might need something between the 6:33 and a 6:50 and with this video I think I might try doing it myself because I can always go back and check your video if I have a problem I love watching these videos great job buddy thank you
Good stuff 👍 We gotta belly and might as well use it lol. A trick to measuring the t gauge easier is to put the frame against ur belly with the thimble pointing away from you and insert the t gauge from the side 😉 You probably did but for those not used to using a micrometer, clean the spindle & anvil (lint free) and calibrate it before each use/extended holding or temperature change. We don't run enough power to be concerned but you can deburr the sharp edges of the gear to minimize the chance of stress risers (potential for crack propagation).
I agree with everything you said here! As far as deburring goes, the ultimate solution is paying to have it thrown in a vibrate polisher for the REM finish.
Very good video. I have built quite a few for my cars.. I never knew the marking on the pinion were for the measurement from pinion to casting centerline. Ty so much for all in depth details!
Thanks Patrick, I had over 3 hours video I cooked down to 38 minutes. I always worry what I cut and try to make sure I don't accidentally cut a key point. These really technical ones are painstaking but hopefully worth it.
Thank you for all the great content you have been very helpful with learning more about setup that I didn't know I've always said I may never win a race but I do all my own work except building motor and im self taught never had anyone show me how to setup a car keep the great content coming it helps a lot with being on a lower budget
I did find this video very useful. I have not gone through a diff yet but I plan to. I have a 9 inch in a 4x4 I have that I want to put a mini spool in & I might go through it at the same time. And my work is alot like what you did here. Probably reuse some bearings. I havnt let a shop work on my vehicals in yrs. I do my own work. Ofcourse there are some things I don't have the equipment for like machining when I build engines. But I have most everything I need to check to see if it needs to be machined or to make sure the machining is correct. I have a problem trusting shops. & I bet If people had the tools to check the work they have dun somtimes alot of people would have trust issues with shops.
It can be hit and miss. I've been lucky over the years working with machinist and felt like even though some were clearly more advanced than others they all have been very honest about what they are and are not equipped and capable of doing. That's all I can ask and so I feel lucky to have some good ones around. I hope the build on the 9 goes well for you and sure appreciate the feedback.
Awesome deal, I have a local guy to build my gears. Since he is so reasonable it’s one job I don’t mind farming out. You didn’t mention what kind of housing you use, I only have one “good” housing. Most of my gears are in regular housings that I pick up, in fact most came out of pickups. Also there’s been several that was pretty badly rusted up. Since we always put new bearings in is not an issue.
Mine are just junk yard castings but two of mine have the double web indicating they are the better nodular iron. Considering the application though I don't think a street stock I pushing the limits of a stock case at all.
@@DIRTRACELIFE from my understanding you need at least 450 to 500 Hp to start having case issues. Unless it’s a special ratio We run the basic gears from Quick Performance.
@@DIRTRACELIFE As a former asphalt racer, you have helped me transition over to dirt. I finished my car last summer and have been having a blast ever since. Keep up the great work!
my rear 9 in gear was rebuilt by a knowledgeable guy and was delivered to me for install into my housing. my application is a restored mach 1 1970. I removed the yoke so I could detail the unit with correct paint and do a detail. with that said what is the process for me to reinstall the same yoke so the unit will operate good, assuming the person who did the work from the start did a good job.
Provided the crush spacer was set correctly, you should be able to re torque a new pinion nut to 125ftlbs. What you are trying to do is secure the yoke but not reach a torque level that results in crush collapse. 125 is the number to go to if it was built right to start with.
i watched you with the solid spacer and I like that idea, so i ordered a solid spacer with shims. so now i will measure the crush spacer thickness and match the solid with shims to match the same thickness. I will then torque a new yoke nut to 125 ft lbs. I have ordered gear marking compound also so i can check the contact pattern. Am i on the right track? your video was super. thanks so much. PS After further checking I discovered my unit was missing the oil slinger, so i ordered one. thanks for mentioning that very important part. @@DIRTRACELIFE
Yes, you can switch one from a crush spacer to a solid but its very likely it won't be exactly the same unless you have some really good micrometers to use. Calipers won't be adequate because a half thousand here or there will end up changing your preload enough that you will need to address it with a shim change. The bottom line - I would either leave the crush in it, if it is assembled right, or I would plan to pull the pinion housing out, take the seal out, and measure preload resistance on it to insure the spacing is correct. Don't take any short cuts here or you'll regret it.
I have micrometers and can measure it very accurately. I went ahead and pulled the pinion. thanks. PS do i always consider the thickest measurement on the crush or somewhere in the middle to set up the solid with spacers?
It will not if you are using a solid pinion spacer. If you are using a crush spacer then if you torque it enough you can actually crush that spacer more leading to premature bearing failure from excessive preload. It takes A LOT to crush them though
Very detailed, just wished you would have shown how to set the pinion crush spacer. Most people are working on factory rear ends. Off to another video.
Thats very fair, because we beat on them so much in circle track, hard spacers are the norm but I do use crush spacers for anything on the street and those folks got left out. Just didn't consider how this video goes beyond . . Dirt Race Life :)
Jason...great video and confidence builder....I have a junkyard 8 inch 3.25 gear I'm going to pull a apart to add new bearings and races/seals etc. Do you recommend that 125lb spec for the 8"?? How about the preload specs? No racing with mine...just a street car.
It's different when you use a crush spacer and you will need to follow those specs. You end up torquing WAY past 125 while setting the crush. its definitely different unfortunately.
The best 9” set up video I have watched! I do have a question: is the set up on the tolerances you called out the same for a street drag race car or a full drag car as compared to a circle track car?
DT, I would say no. I have always made my gears in regular vehicles a bit tighter and never had issues but honestly I just cannot say for drag racing how much tighter. (Circle track gets gears hotter than any other type use and is the reason the clearances are more than factory settings) I just dont have the experience in drag set ups and dang sure don't want to mis lead anybody.
@@DIRTRACELIFE thanks for the response. That is what I was thinking from what I had studied on rear end setup, but I wanted to ask your opinion to see if maybe you had some set up numbers from your experience. Thanks for the honesty and again for the response Loved the video. Keep’em coming!
I’m doing an 8” right now. What do you do if you don’t have the correct backlash also do you just set the carrier in, run the caps down til they touch and adjust the caps til you get the right pattern? Thank you for the great video
Torque the caps because the case will change when you torque those bolts. You should still be able to turn the adjusters. Just run them down until they contact the bearings have no slack, then you turn them both the exact same amount to shift the carrier left or right to set the backlash. Once you are dialed in you can turn both in toward the carrier by the same amount to preload the carrier bearings without changing the backlash by much. Still have to check it again though as it will change a small amount and could need a final adjustment. Then put the locks in.
Back in the day when modifieds had to run real third members, we had four built (ourselves) ready to go in the trailer, always a solid spacer. Ahh the good days when changing a gear was a real job….sigh.
@@DIRTRACELIFE , not saying I want to go back, just the likes of crate motors, Bert and Brinn Trannys and quick change rearends. We seem to buy instead of build our stuff. We could compete by building the better mousetrap, now it seems to be buy a better mousetrap. Half don’t even have a decent welder in the shop much less know how to straighten a rearend housing…. I have become that old guy… I love that you show how to build not only the parts but also the tools to work on the stuff.
I stick with GL5 80-90wt. I know you can get away with 50wt as long as its GL5 but gears are just far too expensive for me to risk it. I will give up that slight torque reduction so I can have the piece of mind.
Hey Jason, I’m still learning about this. But what’s the purpose of the crush on the pinion preload? When you had it at 460, myself I was thinking that was good. Just trying to understand thanks.
Steve, the pinion bearings have the most stress on them in the assembly and I believe when gears fail may times it's from deflection of the pinion. This is because of how close the two bearings are to each other compared to the ring gear and spool where they are more like 10 inches apart. SO, you have to make sure the bearings on the pinion are loaded against those races with enough pressure to prevent the shaft from deflecting under load. If it deflects that means the pattern where it contacts the ring gear is changing and that's a disaster for the life of the gear. That's why I keep going down on that spacer until I get that clear indication I have the preload drag showing when I measure it. Too little load and the pinion deflects ruining the gear and too much generates significantly more heat in the bearings and oil and will lead to premature bearing failure. I hope this helps :)
Very Good Information thanks for Video this guy is very conscious of his work and making sure he gets it right the kind of mechanic you want working on your ride
You did a great job setting up the gear, but that doesn't mean everyone can do it. And you didn't mention the locking taps that hold the lock nuts against the carrier bearing. But you did a great job !
Hey man great video for sure but I noticed you set the pinion preload without the oil splash washer…. Will that affect the preload??? Thanks again for the video
No not at all. Preload is controlled by the distance between the bearings and the washer is above that. I just leave it out to keep it out of the way while doing the adjustment. (Seems like they get beat up pretty easy)
Frikin RUclips. One video plays for a ford 9"... now half the recommendations are ford 9". I can't believe how many people made videos for this axle. One of the easiest axles to work on... must be why there are so many videos on it.
RUclips does the same thing to me but . . . .. its all kids playing army with the toy soldiers because thats what my grandson watches when he is at the house :) Seriously, it is the most popular rear gear ever produced. I just go through and try to show all aspects of what we do on our race cars and that includes gear building with limited tools but hopefully I will only add that one to the mass of videos on gear building! :)
@@DIRTRACELIFE The only way to fix it is go into history and delete the offending videos. Sorry to vent on your video.. it felt more like I was screaming into the abyss. LOL.
For reference going to tight on the preload will last 11 laps in the heat til she seizes and spits the driveshaft out. I learned this Saturday on the Camaro. 😂😂
I might want to suggest that instead of using light machine oil as you assemble everything in that rear end that you changed to using either automatic transmission fluid or transmission assembly Lube. Transmission fluid and transmission assembly Lube both have properties for high pressure systems like occur inside transmissions and inside rear axle assemblies. It may serve you better as well as being just a tiny bit better at resisting corrosion.
You have such a great way of explaining this process. I’m a novice with this and will be doing a pinion install on my 78 Bronco. Can I ask how you got the 125 ft pounds on the yoke nut in the beginning and when you first took of. 1000 was it all on feel? Thanks!
pm, I am using a 1/2 drive torque wrench on the pinion nut to set the 125lbs. In this case what I do is put the yoke in a vise to hold it while I use the torque wrench. Just keep in mind that 125lbs like I am doing ONLY applies to using solid spacers. if you used an OEM style crush washer, you won't even begin to crush the sleeve and set it at 125 and should be prepared to use an extension and apply force of as much as 250lbs to set the crush. It is a slightly different process to get to the same end result.
@@DIRTRACELIFE Hey thanks so much for the reply. To do my bronco what would your suggestion be on Solid vs.Crush washers? Is one more easier to do?...Thanks again.
Joe, for the last several years, I have only run full floater housings with dual bearings (one on each side of the hub) carrying the load out at each of the wheel hubs. I run no seals in the axle tubes, making the hubs a wet application receiving gear oil from the center.
If you don't have a spare axle when setting the carrier bearing pre load can you spin it at the pinion nut when you have it set up ? subtract what the pinion bearing preload was to get your carrier bearing pre load.
No sir, I don't think that will be a viable way to do it. I believe the gear drag between the two cuts of gears is an unmeasureable wild card that will throw that off in some unpredictable way.
Yeah that's what I was thinking as well. Won't get a consistent reading that way. The one in my car I set the backlash then snugged the opposite ring down 2 holes. Took it out for the winter to check it over. Everything looks good. I will source a axle and cut it. Measure it the way you showed.
@@DIRTRACELIFE update : was able to source a axle. Cut it down welded a nut. Installed new bearings and I'm right at 10inbs. Thank you for the advice. 😊
thanks so much, your method of using solid preload pinion disc is way better than a crush disc, we used chalk and not Prussian blue, but who cares, are you using EP oils ?
Rob, on this new gear I will be running the semi-synthetic Schaffer SAE 50 gear lube. I used to run 90wt GL5 dino but a good friend has convinced me to go to this to free up HP, run cooler, and last longer. Its a brand new gear so I should be able to tell if it does well after I run it a few times. We will see.
No issue on this one but yes I have had to clearance a housing before. its hit or miss on when needed but small bearing housings and gear ratios above 650 tend to need clearance.
I'm not a fan i think it's already hard enough to get a leafer to get over and stay over on the right side while still keeping some dig in that left rear. Seems like a sway bar is always working against you. Just opinion though. I know for a fact some do make it work but I'm sure not one of them.
Back in the mid-90s we run a front sway bar and now they don't even use them I just picked up a new street stock and none of these guys use sway bars in the front anymore
Nope, up here in Indiana we don’t use them. We try to use a soft spring in the right front with a shock that has more rebound to get the load back to the right rear. All of our chassis builders are saying those are a thing of the past lol. Our cars are pretty close to a freakin late model up here.
Yeah I don't know about a late spring car up here in Michigan with these metric chassis a lot of guys well I should say most of them are all of them don't run a sway bar anymore but I was talking to one of our chassis builders here in West Michigan and on the big GM he was telling me that they use it occasionally because of the sway bar will help tighten a car up with that sway bar but that's on the big GM and that's what my car is now but if I need that I'm going to give it a try but good luck figuring it out buddy
I can't tell that they add anything at all myself. Honestly, even brand new it seems they have a bit of clearance built it them because they always slide on and off fairly easy.
Jeff, of course you are correct. Thinking about it more, it would be better to always have it in. I mean sure it doesn't load the pinion in any meaning way but you could very easily forget that sucker and that could go very bad very fast. :(
Don't get me wrong it was a excellent video but anytime someone does something different from the way I do it I'm curious as to why.... I'm always open to learn something new
Hey John, me too bud. I dang sure have blown a few gears when I started out. I was lucky enough many years ago to be blessed with a true old school mechanic who took pity on me and taught me about gears and much more.
That's for either a pre-established crush setup or a solid spacer. NOT a new setup where you are crushing a new spacer. And it's critical to not exceed that if you have a prestablished crush spacer because somewhere around 200lbs or more you start further compressing the crush spacer. Which is a part of the setup for a new crush NOT a solid spacer. If you have a solid you won't hurt a 9 by going to 170 but there is no significant gain in anything by doing it. I learned it about 30 years ago when I was working under a semi-retired expert who was very patient teaching a young very naive guy how to build gears 😉
Ive watched this video about a dozen times now. Im putting a set of 4.56 gears and a spool in a Ford 9". I cant seem to get any preload on the pinion no matter what i do. Old crush washer measured. 438". Solid sleeve measured .427", added a .010" shim no preload, removed the shim altogether no preload. Removed the solid sleeve so nothing between the bearings no preload?
If you don't have a sleeve it is absolutely going to preload unless the nut is binding on something besides the bearings. Something has to be off somewhere bud.
Never seen a pinion seal make Measurable difference in pinion preload. Good thinking but I personally don't think it makes a difference. I've done hundreds of diff overhauls. Seal in or out never affected pinion preload. You can put the seal on the yoke and spin it for yourself, it's extremely light drag. Not enough to worry about as long as you're setting preload to spec.
I never worried about it building heavy equipment gears but thats because I was preloading beyond any difference the seal could make. On a circle track 9 thats a different story. I am targeting having just enough preload to stop gear mesh deflection while minimizing heat. Too little and deflection will significantly shorten gear life. too much and its just building extra heat and robbing power. My experience has seen new seals range from adding 2"lbs to 20"lbs and thats way too big a factor for me to hit the sweet spot while guessing what it might be instead of pulling it from the equation. On the street or job site you can 100% get away with skipping it and just put plenty of load on the bearings, but on the track it absolutely makes a difference. I think you make a valid argument and where I differ is in the application for the build.
@@DIRTRACELIFE absolutely agree. Thanks for the reply and posting the video! All the diffs I do are street driven vehicles or wheelers. I can see maybe a thousands or two of rotational drag but no more than that. I generally set around 20 lb/in rotational torque regardless of axle. Size. If it's a small diff maybe 15/lb in.
You have by far the best video on setting up a third member, great instruction with the theory behind it.
Thank you sir, just trying show how I get by doing it with limited tools and limited budget. And thank you for watching my channel. Its very much appreciated.
I haven't built any rears in 20 years, but I did built hundreds of 9" rears for 23 or 24 years, often with even fewer tools. If the housing and pinion support were original factory Ford car parts, the original pinion support shim was almost always a 0.020" shim. The, "old" Richmond gears usually worked best with a 0.019" shim. Later, quality control with Richmond gears seemed to changed with new owners. The newer gear brands, such as US Gear and Motive Gear seemed to usually work best with a 0.018" shim. In the old days, I'd remove the Ford 0.020" and used only the old Richmond gears, usually with a 0.019" shim. When I had to use the newer brands of gears, I found that an 0.018" shim was usually best. 40 years ago, I don't recall seeing shims for the pinion bearing spacer. The spacers were available, precision ground to length, in 0.001" increments and I found with a factory Ford pinion support, a 0.470" spacer was usually best, but sometimes I might have used a very slightly larger size. When mounting a ring gear, I'd wipe the back side with a file, to make sure it was clean and straight. Blue Loctite calls for cleaning the threads with Loctite primer, as it can't tolerate any oil residue, like Red Loctite can. I'd fit the ring gear lining up the bolt holes and hold it with a couple of clean bolts. Then I'd apply Loctite INSIDE the bolt holes of the ring gear, as coating the bolts will cause trapped air to press out of the bolt holes and the Loctite wouldn't reach the bottom of the holes. I'd tighten the caps, without torquing them. I would run the side bearings in, to align the bearings and cups, then loosen them. I'd install the pinion support, with the pinion installed and torqued with the 0.470" spacer. I'd use a 0.019" shim for the "old" Richmond gears and usually a 0.018" shim for the newer brand gears.I'd keep the non-ring gear side bearing loose and tighten the ring gear side being for zero backlash. If a hole didn't line up with the lock on the ring gear side, I'd rotate it to adjust lining up a hole with the lock. Then I'd tighten the non-ring gear side until there was resistance. Then I'd tighten two holes more of turn. if it didn't line up with the lock, I'd tighten it to line up. This spread the housing and opened the backlash to just about right. Then I'd torque the caps.
Factory pinion support shim = 0.020"
Old Richmond Gear shim = 0.019"(30 years ago)
Most newer gears = 0.018"(?) (20 years ago)
Pinion bearing spacer = 0.470" ( some people choose slightly larger to reduce drag/heat)
Ring gear backlash = Side bearing two hole turn tightened from zero backlash.
I would check the patterns on the gears.
This is GREAT DETAIL that does nothing but help racers even more. You dang sure know what your doing because those numbers are exactly what I see A LOT :) not always, like you said check the patterns but this right here gets you dang close to be able to check those patterns. much appreciated sir!
@@DIRTRACELIFE Another dirt racer here and my experience is the same. .018-.020 is almost always in the ballpark. I always start with .020. . Couple of things I might add... I use the old pinion nut with the pinch ground off while I working on setting up the pinion preload. Also its real common to have to do some grinding on the case around the pinion support bearing to clear some of the deeper gears. This is a very good video.
Had always been 'hesitant' to tackle this. NOT NO MORE !! .. I set mine up step by step as I followed along. A YUGE THANK YOU !!🏁🏁🏁
Glad to see you tackle it! Not hard, just tedious and takes some time. I get faster with each one I do :)
I ran across this searching for a good video to set up a new Yukon housing for my drag race truck.
This is LIGHT YEARS beyond that garbage video I watched on Summit youtube channel.
And I now know for sure that my setup is assembled wrong.
So I will be going out tomorrow and fixing the stuff I caught in this video.
Thank you very much for taking the time and effort to post this.
I'm glad this was helpful and thank you sir for watching
I dare say this is the best F9 setup video I've ever seen. Nicely done! Going into my favorites.
Kind words Ron, I appreciate you watching :)
Great informative video without the BS off topic comments you see in most other videos.
Ive got a 68 Camaro with a 9" ford rearend that feels sloppy and it squeals. I've never rebuilt a rearend before, but after watching this video I feel confident that I can rebuild mine correctly.
Thank you
I'm glad you found it useful and good luck in your build 👍
Straight up best instructional video on 9 inch Ford set up. Keep up the great work!
Thank you Sir
This is one of the most informative videos i have ever seen. you did an excellent job!!!!!!!
Thank you sir
Hey Bossman, you knocked this video out of the park. With these I feel very confident that I can setup my own gear now. Thank you!!!
Thank you sir, hopefully much more to come!
one of the best, easiest to understand videos I've seen for setting up the Ford 9 inch. Thanks, very helpful
Thank you Randy, I sure appreciate the feedback and glad you found my channel useful.
Working with what cha got makes you sharp. You're the type of guy to make anything work. Good job 👍🏼
Appreciate it bud, just try to show how we get it done in the real world ;)
Thank you for the great explanation along with the video. Dad and I both want to thank you. This was my first time doing this and it went flawlessly. Along with the pointer of the end measurement to the plane we were able to do the math and shim it perfectly on the first shot. Thanks again!
I'm glad the video did its job and was helpful. thanks for letting me know
I've had a junk yard find 9" in the garage that I've been nervous to take apart because I've never done it before. After watching this, I'm excited to gut it and re-gear it! Thanks for the content!
Any interest in doing a transmission rebuild video?
I like the clarity of your audio, the filming, and the pace. 1st video I watched was a real groaner. Subscribed.
Man o Man I have learned a lot about making videos since that first one LOL. Sure appreciate you watching and subscribing sir!
The best Video I have seen so far on this topic! Thank you very much. Will rebuild my Ford 8 inch with new bearings and another gear ratio this winter! As far as I know it's build the same than the 9".
Thank you sir and good luck in your build :)
The reason that the helper bearing is inside the housing is because of the low position of the pinion gear to the ring gear and to give the pinion the necessary support from trying to walk away from the ring gear because it is in about the 5 o'clock position on the ring gear Rather than the 3 o'clock position.
The 3 o'clock position is much better reference point for durability, but sets the pinion much higher in relationship to the center of the case.
This was done for the reason that Ford did not want the high hump tunnel in their cars, so they lowered the gear, which caused strength and bearing and gear issues wear issues.
This support from the internal support bearing remedied these issues.
Great Information I sure appreciate. Thank you
I build gears locally in our area for lots of racers, and I used a bent 31 and 28 spline axle and cut them 6-10 inches long on the gear side and welded it all the way around to a piece of angle iron to set in the vise tighten it down and then slide your spool and untorqued ring gear onto then proceed to torque with no slip. Just a tip, other than that you do a great job
I like it! This HB vise sure doesn't have the holding power my old Wilton did. Need to bum me a couple scrap axles :)
@@DIRTRACELIFE I’ve learned that any ratio with 5 or 6 pinion teeth stay slightly above center on the drive side and any gear with more pinion teeth you can be slightly lower. The less pinion teeth the more prone to stripping the pinion gear. I’m just as picky as you when it comes to shims and measurements and patterns though!
Hmmmm, new information. Less pinion teeth = make sure you have a good deep bite. Yes, agreed that makes sense. I'm taking that and adding it to my criteria :)
Yeah I've never messed with building a gear and me and my buddy he just had somebody do him a 620 gear he was running a 650 and with the 388 it's not a big horsepower motor I think I might need something between the 6:33 and a 6:50 and with this video I think I might try doing it myself because I can always go back and check your video if I have a problem I love watching these videos great job buddy thank you
Thanks Rick, just be patient and take your time and above all else if the pattern looks bad don't just leave it, go back and fix it.
This was VERY helpful. Thank you for showing how to do this without all the crazy setup tools. Well Done!
Thank you and glad it was helpful!
Good stuff 👍
We gotta belly and might as well use it lol. A trick to measuring the t gauge easier is to put the frame against ur belly with the thimble pointing away from you and insert the t gauge from the side 😉
You probably did but for those not used to using a micrometer, clean the spindle & anvil (lint free) and calibrate it before each use/extended holding or temperature change.
We don't run enough power to be concerned but you can deburr the sharp edges of the gear to minimize the chance of stress risers (potential for crack propagation).
I agree with everything you said here! As far as deburring goes, the ultimate solution is paying to have it thrown in a vibrate polisher for the REM finish.
Very good video. I have built quite a few for my cars.. I never knew the marking on the pinion were for the measurement from pinion to casting centerline. Ty so much for all in depth details!
Thanks Patrick, I had over 3 hours video I cooked down to 38 minutes. I always worry what I cut and try to make sure I don't accidentally cut a key point. These really technical ones are painstaking but hopefully worth it.
Thank you for all the great content you have been very helpful with learning more about setup that I didn't know I've always said I may never win a race but I do all my own work except building motor and im self taught never had anyone show me how to setup a car keep the great content coming it helps a lot with being on a lower budget
Thank you for watching James. I am glad you find it helpful.
I did find this video very useful. I have not gone through a diff yet but I plan to. I have a 9 inch in a 4x4 I have that I want to put a mini spool in & I might go through it at the same time. And my work is alot like what you did here. Probably reuse some bearings. I havnt let a shop work on my vehicals in yrs. I do my own work. Ofcourse there are some things I don't have the equipment for like machining when I build engines. But I have most everything I need to check to see if it needs to be machined or to make sure the machining is correct. I have a problem trusting shops. & I bet If people had the tools to check the work they have dun somtimes alot of people would have trust issues with shops.
It can be hit and miss. I've been lucky over the years working with machinist and felt like even though some were clearly more advanced than others they all have been very honest about what they are and are not equipped and capable of doing. That's all I can ask and so I feel lucky to have some good ones around. I hope the build on the 9 goes well for you and sure appreciate the feedback.
Good job with this Ford 9" re-build...keep the vid's comming!
Thanks Tom, appreciate the feedback.
Best video ive seen on this thus far
Thank you sir, I'm glad it was helpful
Great lesson on rebuilding a diff they are pretty easy after you get your first one
Thanks Bryan, agreed. After the first its just a matter of going through the steps.
This was such a great video. Thanks for the confidence to get this knocked out 🤙
I'm glad it's been helpful.
Ur videos r some of the best,thank u very much for sharing ur knowledge with us gearheads
Im sure glad you found it useful sir, thats why I do it 😀
Awesome deal, I have a local guy to build my gears. Since he is so reasonable it’s one job I don’t mind farming out. You didn’t mention what kind of housing you use, I only have one “good” housing. Most of my gears are in regular housings that I pick up, in fact most came out of pickups. Also there’s been several that was pretty badly rusted up. Since we always put new bearings in is not an issue.
Mine are just junk yard castings but two of mine have the double web indicating they are the better nodular iron. Considering the application though I don't think a street stock I pushing the limits of a stock case at all.
@@DIRTRACELIFE from my understanding you need at least 450 to 500 Hp to start having case issues. Unless it’s a special ratio We run the basic gears from Quick Performance.
Absolutely a great video 👏 thanks for sharing your experience 👍
Thank you Ricky, Sure appreciate you watching as well.
Great Video as always. You are doing great things with this channel. Thank you!
thank you for watching!
@@DIRTRACELIFE As a former asphalt racer, you have helped me transition over to dirt. I finished my car last summer and have been having a blast ever since. Keep up the great work!
Wow that is quite a procedure I never had the luxury of working on a rear end
Complicated the first time but then it all starts making sense :)
Wow this guy was great, needs more likes for sure.
Glad this video was useful to you sir.
Thank you for the great video, it was of great help assembling my own 9".
Yes sir, Just trying to show real world example of getting it done when you don't have tons of tools and experience but gotta get er done.
Awesome video. Judging by the video you are a wealth of knowledge. Got one for a dana 44 front👍👍
Thank you Sir, No, I've never built a Dana but they are great units and I sure wouldn't have an issue tackling one.
Excellent video. I always reuse my pinion nut. I just silicone the threads.
I see nothing wrong with it either Nick as long as like you said, add some sealant.
Loved the video I could understand every move you made could’ve even look any a second !!! Keep li up very real word
Thanks Bryan, very kind words and hope to make a few more useful videos like this one in the future :)
my rear 9 in gear was rebuilt by a knowledgeable guy and was delivered to me for install into my housing. my application is a restored mach 1 1970. I removed the yoke so I could detail the unit with correct paint and do a detail. with that said what is the process for me to reinstall the same yoke so the unit will operate good, assuming the person who did the work from the start did a good job.
Provided the crush spacer was set correctly, you should be able to re torque a new pinion nut to 125ftlbs. What you are trying to do is secure the yoke but not reach a torque level that results in crush collapse. 125 is the number to go to if it was built right to start with.
i watched you with the solid spacer and I like that idea, so i ordered a solid spacer with shims. so now i will measure the crush spacer thickness and match the solid with shims to match the same thickness. I will then torque a new yoke nut to 125 ft lbs. I have ordered gear marking compound also so i can check the contact pattern. Am i on the right track? your video was super. thanks so much. PS After further checking I discovered my unit was missing the oil slinger, so i ordered one. thanks for mentioning that very important part. @@DIRTRACELIFE
Yes, you can switch one from a crush spacer to a solid but its very likely it won't be exactly the same unless you have some really good micrometers to use. Calipers won't be adequate because a half thousand here or there will end up changing your preload enough that you will need to address it with a shim change.
The bottom line - I would either leave the crush in it, if it is assembled right, or I would plan to pull the pinion housing out, take the seal out, and measure preload resistance on it to insure the spacing is correct. Don't take any short cuts here or you'll regret it.
I have micrometers and can measure it very accurately. I went ahead and pulled the pinion. thanks. PS do i always consider the thickest measurement on the crush or somewhere in the middle to set up the solid with spacers?
I would expect the variation to only be in the ten thousandths and I would take the average of 4 points
Gosh darn you are my hero.. omgosh I always had soo much trouble with these gear changes thank you so much
You make it look easy..
I appreciate it bud. Just tried to do this in a way that would make since to the weekend warrior on a tight budget.
This is a very useful video. Excellent Jason!
Thank you Dave, hope to get several more like this in the future.... but really ready to race and trying to get to a track too.
thanks for the video alot of help for me and my dad. THANK YOU SO MUCH. Got a question when changing the yoke out does that affect anything????
It will not if you are using a solid pinion spacer. If you are using a crush spacer then if you torque it enough you can actually crush that spacer more leading to premature bearing failure from excessive preload. It takes A LOT to crush them though
Very detailed, just wished you would have shown how to set the pinion crush spacer. Most people are working on factory rear ends. Off to another video.
Thats very fair, because we beat on them so much in circle track, hard spacers are the norm but I do use crush spacers for anything on the street and those folks got left out. Just didn't consider how this video goes beyond . . Dirt Race Life :)
Nice job clearly explaining a confusing procedure. 👍
Thank you sir, really trying for just that.
Excellent tutorial, well done!
Thank you, I'm tryin.
Jason...great video and confidence builder....I have a junkyard 8 inch 3.25 gear I'm going to pull a apart to add new bearings and races/seals etc. Do you recommend that 125lb spec for the 8"?? How about the preload specs? No racing with mine...just a street car.
It's different when you use a crush spacer and you will need to follow those specs. You end up torquing WAY past 125 while setting the crush. its definitely different unfortunately.
Thank you. Your video is VERY helpful
Well done. @@DIRTRACELIFE
The best 9” set up video I have watched! I do have a question: is the set up on the tolerances you called out the same for a street drag race car or a full drag car as compared to a circle track car?
DT, I would say no. I have always made my gears in regular vehicles a bit tighter and never had issues but honestly I just cannot say for drag racing how much tighter. (Circle track gets gears hotter than any other type use and is the reason the clearances are more than factory settings) I just dont have the experience in drag set ups and dang sure don't want to mis lead anybody.
@@DIRTRACELIFE thanks for the response. That is what I was thinking from what I had studied on rear end setup, but I wanted to ask your opinion to see if maybe you had some set up numbers from your experience. Thanks for the honesty and again for the response Loved the video. Keep’em coming!
I’m doing an 8” right now. What do you do if you don’t have the correct backlash also do you just set the carrier in, run the caps down til they touch and adjust the caps til you get the right pattern? Thank you for the great video
Torque the caps because the case will change when you torque those bolts. You should still be able to turn the adjusters. Just run them down until they contact the bearings have no slack, then you turn them both the exact same amount to shift the carrier left or right to set the backlash. Once you are dialed in you can turn both in toward the carrier by the same amount to preload the carrier bearings without changing the backlash by much. Still have to check it again though as it will change a small amount and could need a final adjustment. Then put the locks in.
@@DIRTRACELIFE thank you. Really great video also
Back in the day when modifieds had to run real third members, we had four built (ourselves) ready to go in the trailer, always a solid spacer. Ahh the good days when changing a gear was a real job….sigh.
Don't rub it in Bruce! I'd give up that couple horsepower in a second to go quick change if it was allowed.
@@DIRTRACELIFE , not saying I want to go back, just the likes of crate motors, Bert and Brinn Trannys and quick change rearends. We seem to buy instead of build our stuff. We could compete by building the better mousetrap, now it seems to be buy a better mousetrap. Half don’t even have a decent welder in the shop much less know how to straighten a rearend housing…. I have become that old guy… I love that you show how to build not only the parts but also the tools to work on the stuff.
All your videos are great, learning alot. Have a question. What gear oil do you run??
I stick with GL5 80-90wt. I know you can get away with 50wt as long as its GL5 but gears are just far too expensive for me to risk it. I will give up that slight torque reduction so I can have the piece of mind.
Thank you for the info Jason. Great video
Thank you Jay.
Hey Jason, I’m still learning about this. But what’s the purpose of the crush on the pinion preload? When you had it at 460, myself I was thinking that was good. Just trying to understand thanks.
Steve, the pinion bearings have the most stress on them in the assembly and I believe when gears fail may times it's from deflection of the pinion. This is because of how close the two bearings are to each other compared to the ring gear and spool where they are more like 10 inches apart. SO, you have to make sure the bearings on the pinion are loaded against those races with enough pressure to prevent the shaft from deflecting under load. If it deflects that means the pattern where it contacts the ring gear is changing and that's a disaster for the life of the gear. That's why I keep going down on that spacer until I get that clear indication I have the preload drag showing when I measure it. Too little load and the pinion deflects ruining the gear and too much generates significantly more heat in the bearings and oil and will lead to premature bearing failure. I hope this helps :)
Very Good Information thanks for Video this guy is very conscious of his work and making sure he gets it right the kind of mechanic you want working on your ride
Thank you very much
Great video as always!!
Thanks Pebo, appreciate you watching!
You did a great job setting up the gear, but that doesn't mean everyone can do it. And you didn't mention the locking taps that hold the lock nuts against the carrier bearing. But you did a great job !
Son of a biscuit eater! I cut it by accident! I have to do something about that. Thanks for catching it.
Hey man great video for sure but I noticed you set the pinion preload without the oil splash washer…. Will that affect the preload??? Thanks again for the video
No not at all. Preload is controlled by the distance between the bearings and the washer is above that. I just leave it out to keep it out of the way while doing the adjustment. (Seems like they get beat up pretty easy)
Frikin RUclips. One video plays for a ford 9"... now half the recommendations are ford 9". I can't believe how many people made videos for this axle. One of the easiest axles to work on... must be why there are so many videos on it.
RUclips does the same thing to me but . . . .. its all kids playing army with the toy soldiers because thats what my grandson watches when he is at the house :)
Seriously, it is the most popular rear gear ever produced. I just go through and try to show all aspects of what we do on our race cars and that includes gear building with limited tools but hopefully I will only add that one to the mass of videos on gear building! :)
@@DIRTRACELIFE The only way to fix it is go into history and delete the offending videos. Sorry to vent on your video.. it felt more like I was screaming into the abyss. LOL.
Thank you sir. Awesome video.
Most welcome and sure appreciate the views!
For reference going to tight on the preload will last 11 laps in the heat til she seizes and spits the driveshaft out. I learned this Saturday on the Camaro. 😂😂
Been there too Steven, sure hate it for you bud but glad you are getting the leafer sorted out on the track. Wins are coming for ya.
I might want to suggest that instead of using light machine oil as you assemble everything in that rear end that you changed to using either automatic transmission fluid or transmission assembly Lube. Transmission fluid and transmission assembly Lube both have properties for high pressure systems like occur inside transmissions and inside rear axle assemblies. It may serve you better as well as being just a tiny bit better at resisting corrosion.
Good Advice, thank you
Great video as usual
Thanks Mr Carl
You have such a great way of explaining this process. I’m a novice with this and will be doing a pinion install on my 78 Bronco. Can I ask how you got the 125 ft pounds on the yoke nut in the beginning and when you first took of. 1000 was it all on feel? Thanks!
pm,
I am using a 1/2 drive torque wrench on the pinion nut to set the 125lbs. In this case what I do is put the yoke in a vise to hold it while I use the torque wrench. Just keep in mind that 125lbs like I am doing ONLY applies to using solid spacers. if you used an OEM style crush washer, you won't even begin to crush the sleeve and set it at 125 and should be prepared to use an extension and apply force of as much as 250lbs to set the crush. It is a slightly different process to get to the same end result.
@@DIRTRACELIFE Hey thanks so much for the reply. To do my bronco what would your suggestion be on Solid vs.Crush washers? Is one more easier to do?...Thanks again.
Thank you! Very helpful!
Yes sir, thank you for watching!
Great instructions
Thank you Ronald, I appreciate you watching sir.
Very good information 👌
Thank you sir, I am sure trying :)
What do you use for the axle side loads.... full floater or some sort of semi floating upgrade.... or stock?
Joe, for the last several years, I have only run full floater housings with dual bearings (one on each side of the hub) carrying the load out at each of the wheel hubs. I run no seals in the axle tubes, making the hubs a wet application receiving gear oil from the center.
Thank you.
From one gearhead to another, thank you. Great video.
Another subscriber.
Thank you Dani, hope to make more videos in the future that are useful to you :)
If you don't have a spare axle when setting the carrier bearing pre load can you spin it at the pinion nut when you have it set up ? subtract what the pinion bearing preload was to get your carrier bearing pre load.
No sir, I don't think that will be a viable way to do it. I believe the gear drag between the two cuts of gears is an unmeasureable wild card that will throw that off in some unpredictable way.
Yeah that's what I was thinking as well. Won't get a consistent reading that way. The one in my car I set the backlash then snugged the opposite ring down 2 holes. Took it out for the winter to check it over. Everything looks good. I will source a axle and cut it. Measure it the way you showed.
@@DIRTRACELIFE update : was able to source a axle. Cut it down welded a nut. Installed new bearings and I'm right at 10inbs. Thank you for the advice. 😊
Good deal 😀
thanks so much, your method of using solid preload pinion disc is way better than a crush disc, we used chalk and not Prussian blue, but who cares, are you using EP oils ?
Rob, on this new gear I will be running the semi-synthetic Schaffer SAE 50 gear lube. I used to run 90wt GL5 dino but a good friend has convinced me to go to this to free up HP, run cooler, and last longer. Its a brand new gear so I should be able to tell if it does well after I run it a few times. We will see.
Did you have clearance your housing
No issue on this one but yes I have had to clearance a housing before. its hit or miss on when needed but small bearing housings and gear ratios above 650 tend to need clearance.
Thanks
Yes sir, glad this one is helpful
What are your thoughts on running a sway bar on dirt in a camaro? Great video again!
I'm not a fan i think it's already hard enough to get a leafer to get over and stay over on the right side while still keeping some dig in that left rear. Seems like a sway bar is always working against you. Just opinion though. I know for a fact some do make it work but I'm sure not one of them.
Back in the mid-90s we run a front sway bar and now they don't even use them I just picked up a new street stock and none of these guys use sway bars in the front anymore
Nope, up here in Indiana we don’t use them. We try to use a soft spring in the right front with a shock that has more rebound to get the load back to the right rear. All of our chassis builders are saying those are a thing of the past lol. Our cars are pretty close to a freakin late model up here.
Yeah I don't know about a late spring car up here in Michigan with these metric chassis a lot of guys well I should say most of them are all of them don't run a sway bar anymore but I was talking to one of our chassis builders here in West Michigan and on the big GM he was telling me that they use it occasionally because of the sway bar will help tighten a car up with that sway bar but that's on the big GM and that's what my car is now but if I need that I'm going to give it a try but good luck figuring it out buddy
@@DIRTRACELIFE so did you run your weight up high in your camaro or lower?
Do you feel like the pilot bearing affect the preload?
I can't tell that they add anything at all myself. Honestly, even brand new it seems they have a bit of clearance built it them because they always slide on and off fairly easy.
I was only asking because you didn't have it in when you were testing preload so I was just curious about your thoughts
Jeff, of course you are correct. Thinking about it more, it would be better to always have it in. I mean sure it doesn't load the pinion in any meaning way but you could very easily forget that sucker and that could go very bad very fast. :(
Don't get me wrong it was a excellent video but anytime someone does something different from the way I do it I'm curious as to why.... I'm always open to learn something new
nice job
Thankyou sir
I'm not going to lie I used to just slap them in there always whined after that. To be honest only did it twice.
Hey John, me too bud. I dang sure have blown a few gears when I started out. I was lucky enough many years ago to be blessed with a true old school mechanic who took pity on me and taught me about gears and much more.
125 lbs of tq. Everywere says 170lbs min. ? Were did the 125lbs tq spec come from ? I am asking ?
That's for either a pre-established crush setup or a solid spacer. NOT a new setup where you are crushing a new spacer. And it's critical to not exceed that if you have a prestablished crush spacer because somewhere around 200lbs or more you start further compressing the crush spacer. Which is a part of the setup for a new crush NOT a solid spacer. If you have a solid you won't hurt a 9 by going to 170 but there is no significant gain in anything by doing it.
I learned it about 30 years ago when I was working under a semi-retired expert who was very patient teaching a young very naive guy how to build gears 😉
Ive watched this video about a dozen times now. Im putting a set of 4.56 gears and a spool in a Ford 9". I cant seem to get any preload on the pinion no matter what i do. Old crush washer measured. 438". Solid sleeve measured .427", added a .010" shim no preload, removed the shim altogether no preload. Removed the solid sleeve so nothing between the bearings no preload?
If you don't have a sleeve it is absolutely going to preload unless the nut is binding on something besides the bearings. Something has to be off somewhere bud.
@@DIRTRACELIFE my yoke has a tiny bit of play in it after all is tight. Could the yoke be too short? It is an after market yoke.
It would have to be the wrong yoke. I hate you having trouble but definitely a wrong part somewhere
@@DIRTRACELIFE strange sells pinion yoke spacers for billet yokes.
Summit Part# STR-N-1918. $10. This is supposed to fix my problem.
Thanks!
Thank you John! I really appreciate the support sir.
@@DIRTRACELIFE
Even though I've done gear sets before, it's been years ago.
Your Video was the best one I watched. Thanks Again 🙂
Never seen a pinion seal make Measurable difference in pinion preload. Good thinking but I personally don't think it makes a difference. I've done hundreds of diff overhauls. Seal in or out never affected pinion preload. You can put the seal on the yoke and spin it for yourself, it's extremely light drag. Not enough to worry about as long as you're setting preload to spec.
I never worried about it building heavy equipment gears but thats because I was preloading beyond any difference the seal could make.
On a circle track 9 thats a different story. I am targeting having just enough preload to stop gear mesh deflection while minimizing heat. Too little and deflection will significantly shorten gear life. too much and its just building extra heat and robbing power. My experience has seen new seals range from adding 2"lbs to 20"lbs and thats way too big a factor for me to hit the sweet spot while guessing what it might be instead of pulling it from the equation.
On the street or job site you can 100% get away with skipping it and just put plenty of load on the bearings, but on the track it absolutely makes a difference.
I think you make a valid argument and where I differ is in the application for the build.
@@DIRTRACELIFE absolutely agree. Thanks for the reply and posting the video! All the diffs I do are street driven vehicles or wheelers. I can see maybe a thousands or two of rotational drag but no more than that. I generally set around 20 lb/in rotational torque regardless of axle. Size. If it's a small diff maybe 15/lb in.
👍🏻🍺
:)