The script for the Lynch film was actually pretty much identical to the book ending with the holy war. Unfortunately the studio demanded a happy ending, hence the incredibly stupid 'paul makes it rain' bit
It's not that Villeneuve doesn't want to adapt beyond Messiah; it's more that - he doesn't want to take hypothetical projects serious until he knows that committing to them is even an actual option - there are a slew of other projects he would love to do (especially now that he can probably do whatever the fuck he wants) - he's currently cautious of rushing Messiah, as he doesn't want to do it before he feels the script is strong enough But when pressed on the subject by a couple interviewers that know how to pose questions in unique ways, Villeneuve has said he'd have to see how he feels after Messiah, and even implied he'd be involved with further adaptations in hypothetical scenarios of other filmmakers doing it (while wishing them good luck in trying)
Damn, Alex's comments about Austin Butler are some of the most off-base I've ever heard from him. I legit thought he was the most impressive actor in the film, and I don't even like him like that normally
easily the best performance in my opinion. i wish there was more screentime between him and Seydoux's character, but they couldnt do that unless they made the film R rated
@willruler8614 yeah I hear you. I think considering that it wasn't R rated, they achieved such an insanely evil and intimidating character, its not an easy task!
@@TheMimickid Blood was pretty much obscured the whole movie, i wish there was an R rated directors cut of the movie coming out but it seems like it wont happen from what ive heard
I think I prefer the Lynch film despite its flaws. The Villeneuve films are better adaptations but there's something so dour and impersonal about them that turns me off a bit.
@@FreddyLittt you’re not wrong, i’ve read the whole series besides the last book and it gets increasingly wack as it goes on. kinda sad denis isn’t adapting any of the books after messiah because they get seriously batshit and i would love to see somebody try to translate it to live action, even though it would probably be a complete mess
The thing that really disappointed me about Denis Villeneuve's adaptation of Dune is the fact that he left out the most IMPORTANT scene from Dune 1984 - the cat milking scene. Completely ruined it for me.
This review was kinda weak..I dunno. It was just kinda boring. Love Sardonicast, but I’ve listened to several Dune 2 podcasts by now and this one was on the bottom. Nerd Soup had a way more entertaining Dune 2 discussion.
I'm ok with Adams opinion, but Alex in this episode really annoys me cause it seems he refuses to read the book of Dune despite loving it so much. He's so passionate here but has no clue what he's talking about
Chanis character is the most interesting change from the books. She was such a non important figure out side of being Paul’s wife that her looks weren’t described until near the end of Messiah.
1:11:35 Alex, the 'Eraserhead baby' flying around space is supposed to depict a Guild pilot in the act of navigating their space flight. The book references this process as being secretive and mysterious and involving spice so this is Lynch's interpretation of that. It's (presumably) the same eraserhead baby that Lynch opens the film with, floating in a large canister to meet with the emperor and demand Paul's death in the upcoming coup. The Guild is a very important faction politically in Dune's universe but they take a backseat in the first book so honestly I have no idea why they were given this much screentime? Not sure if this was a Lynch thing or a studio thing but yeah
They don't really take a backseat in the first book at all really. It's pretty clear that the reason paul gets away with threatening to blow up spice is because the guild gives in. They are the actual rulers of the empire that are offset by Paul. The fact that they're absent in the new version is an essential part of why it feels the political and ecological aspects of the novel were forgotten.
@@thibaultlabatide_alanore9456 yeah. They have briefly looked at the ecological station in the first movie and that’s it. Also judging by all of the interviews Villeneuve overlooked (probably omitted) ecology themes. But i think he knew he makes a movie for mass audiences, and he was afraid that the same thing will happen to his movie as happened to Herbert’s novel (many people thought that novel celebrates Paul, that’s the reason Messiah was made). So Denis made a movie about dangers of messianic figures.
@thibaultlabatide_alanore9456 like I said, they're very important politically, and Paul keeps them very much in mind when he plots his takeover, but exactly 0 Guild members are present in the book until the very end when a couple representatives are with the emperor. So yeah I think it's fair to say they take a backseat. I would've liked to see more layers to the politics and the ecology as well but villeneuve had to cut stuff and I think focusing on the messiahship conflict was the right decision. I still think a Dune adaptation is probably best told in a miniseries format but I think these movies are the best version we'll get for a while
I found the guild navigator film easy to understand, without having read the book. I think if you listen to what the characters say the movie is pretty easy to follow.
1:27:57 The Baron is a homosexual in the books, I believe. I think it's never confirmed, but it is something that is heavily implied. I don't think Rautha is gay, but I think the Baron had a thing for him, which is how it is in the movie. I don't think they're diseased like in the movie though.
It's implied so heavily it may was well have been said explicitly. The Baron is a slave to his impulses, no control over himself whatsoever, which is why he's letting himself lust after his own nephew.
Paul's face in the gold armor during the flashback scene was as shaky as looking at Mark Ruffalo's floating head in the Iron Man armor in Infinity War.
I watched it via re-release and home video pretty close together, I thought the effects held up a lot better on a big screen. A couple of things stood out to me as "looking cg" that looked perfectly convincing in the theatre. That one gold armor shot is the only one that I'd call truly bad either way.
From what I can recall, they said the sand worm looked off at times, the inflating balloon thing they use to retrieve the sand crawler wasn’t very convincing, and the shot with Timothee’s face transposed into the helmet was the worst effect in the movie.
They are 100% going to keep making dune movies after messiah. One thing that part one doesn't get enough credit for is designing the world and the production design/art direction. They physically built so much stuff. Because Denis did all that, alot of the hard work of making the franchise translate to screen is done. The later sequels will be like the hobbit trilogy. They won't be able to resist making more but they won't have the soul that villenueve brought to it.
Lynch dune is completely incomprehensible narratively and the widely available cut is a total studio hatchet job, but i'm also glad we have both bc of the production design. It's gross and weird in a genuinely entertaining way that's completely absent from Villeneuve's brutalism as much as it is a significantly better take on the story.
@@cognittie930 The dialogue though is quite lacking, which is a shame, I've never read the books but people always say it's quite heavy with philosophical themes but both Dune movies don't really have interesting lines about human nature, politics, religion, etc.
1:28.42 Lynch has changed his position on watchign movies on the phone. As long as you can really pay attantion he is fine with it. Probably also because the quality just got much better.
Super Metroid to this day has the best integration of guiding the player through their world in a way that doesn’t feel like hand holding. The youtuber Nerrel actually has a great video about Metroid, discussing intuitively leading the player through the level design, it’s great! I haven’t seen any other video game do it so well than Super Metroid, there’s a reason it’s the best Metroidvania.
Part 1 isn't long enough for me - I could have sat with at least another hour which would flesh out the characters more and include more important scenes from the book. Same for Part 2.
I'm not sure about a whole hour but an extra 20-30 minutes directors cut would have been cool. But I'm also pretty certain we basically got the directors cut.
It should have been 3 separate 3 hour movies. Part 1 entails the downfall of House Atreides, part 2 the assimilation into Fremen, and part 3 is the ascension of Paul as a messiah. I love both movies but it could have been something much bigger.
The problem is that Villnueve wanted to fully get across Herberts message on the danger of putting faith in charismatic leaders like Paul. This whole trilogy is about cutting straight to that point. All the extra worldbuilding stuff is still there, just out of focus. You don't need all the explanations given by the novel, cool as they may be. You just need to understand the greek tragedy on display, and part 3/messiah will do just that (hopefully).
@@bondfall0072 Yeah I get that and I love it as it is. I think Denis is doing brilliant filmmaking here, but the fan of the novels in me is slightly disappointed. I'm not a purist by any means and like most of the changes made to the story, but I know that I would worship these movies if there was much more worldbuilding.
@@BLooDCoMPleX that is a completely fair critique and i understand your disappointment. I guess this is just one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't. The good thing is that no one can take away the brilliance of the original novels. They will always be there for us, and will continue to inspire generations of creatives to come.
@@AGamingEntity i should have phrased my comment better because you are right, everything in that first novel is there for a reason. It paints a vivid picture of a complex society with lots of delicate moving pieces, like an old grandfather clock, and then goes into painstaking detail showing exactly why and how Paul breaks it so completely. However, while that can easily work in a medium like the novel, trying to convey all that complexity at the same scale in the film media is a tremendous undertaking because of one big limitation: time. To me, Villenueve decision to pull focus away from the worldbuilding a bit was the right decision because it a: leaves room to explore the consequences of pauls actions in the sequel, and b: allows us to study his character without having to worry about all the moving parts. I understand this doesn't appeal to everyone. I also have issues with some of the stuff he cut out (mainly, i wish hawat could have been included). But i understand when you adapt something as massive as Dune, you have to be pragmatic.
Fun fact: the "weirding way" sound fighting in the Lynch Dune does not exist in the book and is completely made up for the 1984 film. Also, the ending of the 1984 Dune does not make any sense at all in the context of the world of the book because rain on Arrakis would by default kill all the sandworms, and thereby destroy the ecosystem that is needed for spice production. Humanity would be scattered throughout the universe and all trade would cease to exist.
Im not bothered by the raining ending because adaptation-wise the Lynch movie DOES NOT say that water is fatal to sandworms so I can let it slide. Simple issue is that it just plays the chosen one thing completely straight and its just "Royal kid gets attacked by bad guys, kills bad guys and becomes super and everything's awesome" ... yaaay? Im honestly happy David Lynch made a campy weirdo hot mess film, in the hands of a studio puppet director I cant imagine how more transparent the script being a bad adaptation would be, for better or worse thanks to Lynch the 1984 movie is still worth a watch thanks to its weirdness elevating a bad script that misses the overall point of the book.
The director of To Freedom is actually a woman. I watched one of her other movies Sistá. It didn't have any of the sound issues, but abuse and plot twists seems to be a recurring theme with her. At one point, to show a time skip, the main character's actor says "3 days" in a voice over. This is the only voice over of the movie.
@8:34 'it needed a few more renders' -when people who have no idea how VFX work try to criticise VFX... That doesn't make sense, there is only ever ONE render in a movie, the render you see on the screen. adding more renders doesn't mean anything.
@@prashastpandey I mean maybe I could be less pedantic and he mean it needed to be re-rendered, but then you have to include descriptions of what needed to be changed about the render, better lighting? More samples like you said, better animation, etc. and btw film critics don't have to know all the details of the process to be allowed to criticize the VFX, but don't adopt technical language to appear like what you're saying has value when it really is an empty statement. It's okay to just say "I didn't like the CG in X scene it looked bad"
Watch the Sh*t Show Podcast which covers why 1984 Dune ended up the way it was released. In short, it was a mixture of Lynch's inexperience and the producer and studio's meddling.
I guess this makes me realise how much more I enjoyed both films given that I read the book first. Paul's internal narration really helps to sell the importance of everything that happens, from the perspective of what he can see will happen in the future as a consequence of his decisions and actions. That's so difficult to convey in a film, and they did try, but really I think the ideal watching experience is to be familiar with the book first. Which sucks, of course - the film should be able to stand on its own.
Seems too weird to me to call _Dune_ the new _Star Wars._ To be _Star Wars,_ kids have to pretend they're in it. I don't see a seven-year-old kid running around with friends in their backyard, pretending to be Atreides and Harkonnens fighting.
But just imagine how fun it would be to be a kid in a friends group - one is slicing necks of his bald girlfriend 'pets', the other one is drinking poison and insists everyone should worship her and her son, others are riding worms.. seems like a fun childhood
The setting of Dune's Imperium is a place where no one really has true agency - even the Emperor is puppeted by the bene gesserit and the Bene Gesserit are slaves to unfolding a plan set in motion millennia ago - the lack of agency is the POINT. It is only after Paul is inadvertently freed from this system that he can exercise agency, and even that is driven by the narrow path of survival, safety and revenge against a system that will never tolerate his freedom. The prophecy/chosen one angle is explicitly stated as a fabrication by the bene gesserit even in part 1. I'd agree that Part 1 had pacing issues and it frankly cuts a lot of meat and layers of intrigue from the book that should have been kept in to keep it more interesting, but it's a setting that does need time to be established. Walken was horribly miscast, probably the only casting stumble. Baffling decision.
Walken 20 years ago would've made more sense. He can play the powerful-ruler type with gravitas, for e.g. he did play a Roman senator in a miniseries about Julius Caesar.
When I first read the book I envisioned Charles Dance and then I heard about casting of Walken, it felt… off. But now that it’s all said and done I find it inoffensive.
Part 1 Paul is meant to be a 14 year old boy and there's not much to him, his life is predetermined and it is meant to be more about the people around him: Duke Leto, Jessica, Reverend Mother, Gurney, Thufir, Dr Yueh, House Harkonnen, Arakeen etc. The problem with part 1 is they cut so much content and context behind those other characters that you miss out on a lot of the tension, political scheming, backstory behind characters, emotion and soul from the book. It's not up to about the tent scene in the book that you see the switch in his character, his childhood dies and he becomes a man, from that moment on he becomes the central character, before that it's about Jessica and Leto's relationship, and how Harkonnen and Emperor are trying to tear House Atreides apart from within. It's much clearer in the book. In short, should've been a trilogy or a 10 episode series like Shogun on Disney +. Part 2 could've focussed more on him and his relationship with the Fremen, introducing Feyd Rautha etc. Rabban getting screwed by the Fremen. Then part 3 could've just been total war. It would've been similar to LOTR trilogy in that way, where the final battle decides the fate of the universe. Messiah as part 4. Children of Dune part 5 and 6. God Emperor part 7 and 8.
Every time I saw Christopher Walken in Dune 2: "Walk without rhythm, and it won't attract the worm" 😂 Also a quick "um actually" Biodun Stephen is a she btw Anyway love the podcast Bois, can't wait for the next!!
Saying the visuals in Part 1 were unfinished and embarrassing to look at in 10 to 15% of the scenes is embarrassing to admit. Dune pt 1 has some of the best visual effects in any movie in the past decade
In David Lynch's 1984 film Dune, I once stated that Sting's first portrayal of Fayd-Rautha Harkonnen looks like a child that has a secret. I must now add that the actor who portrays Glossu "the Beast" Rabban, looks like a child that knows where the Christmas presents are hidden.
I FUCKING. LOVED Paul’s arc of accepting his role as a false messiah and jihadist using manipulation and prescience. Such an interesting concept amidst a fascinating universe and a high-stakes war. Imagine J.J Abrahms or some other Star Wars hack watching this and measuring their work against it.
Oo three, I didn’t realize how many openings I’d get into with that drawing. Glad to be on the Dune ep. Sorry I drew you the weirdest Alex, but I felt like you’d be giving the alpha predator glare. Do a Jardonicast soon or I’ll cry.
Really annoys me how Adam refuses to talk about films thematically. He will only talk about the production and surface level aspects of the writing. What's the point of talking about movies if we cant talk about what they mean, or what theyre attempting to mean.
I feel like denis and co. were just being funny about it, why else would the emperor say "MORE, MORE" in the most Walken way possible? We already have Javier Bardem goofing it up
Alex please read the book, its so much better (imo the films are very different from the book) The book isn't like star wars, its more space - death note - game of thrones - macbeth - hamlet - the holy mountain. In theory, Lynch and Jodorowsky aren't weird picks to make a dune adaptation.
44:48 The hand to hand combat is more than just an excuse for mixing fantasy and sci-fi. The shields create an atomic explosion when hit by a laser beam coming from a lasgun, killing the gunner and the target simultaneously. This is why they use daggers and swords. However, when fighting in the deep desert, outside of fortifications like the city of Arrakeen, they don’t use shields because the micro vibrations coming from them attract the worms. This is why we see lasgun fights in Part II, like in the opening scene where the Fremen kill the Harkonnen snipers. In that scene, the snipers actually mention not to turn on their shields, so a. They don’t attract the worms, and b. They don’t cause an atomic explosion. So yea, there’s more thought put into the hand to hand combat than just unnecessary action scenes with swords in a sci-fi context.
I really feel like I need to see Dune: Messiah get adapted. Getting a bit fatigued by this first story. Having now seen all these Dune films they're all at 7/10 at this moment - need to rewatch the new ones though and judge part 1 and part 2 as one. Hopefully there will be a future film adaptation of God Emperor of Dune!
25:42 Alex, I’m guessing your local IMAX was in Swindon? It’s reopened now, Vue took over it in December (was also my local IMAX). Saw Godzilla Minus One there which was amazing
I believe the only way Frank Herbert's Dune saga can truly be done justice is as a televsion series. 6, 10 episode long seasons spanning the books. As it stands, the closest we've actually gotten to a genuinely faithfully adaptation is the 2000 Sci-Fi channel miniseries and its sequel. It hasnt aged well but it captures the story far better than the films. The films themselves needed to be at least 3 hours long each.
I’m with Adam on part 1. I really enjoyed part 2 quite a bit more but it doesn’t make part 1 any better for me. Too long and too boring, could’ve been 40 minutes to an hour shorter. Edit: YES! What Adam said about wanting them mashed together in a four (or five maybe) hour movie is exactly how I feel.
2:09:53 I have a video on my page with mixing and mastering tips “Mix and Master Clean Modern with 808 drums and melody IN CAR ON PHON AND ALL SPEAKERS” Hope it helps!
From what I know about the Dune books and some of the ideas in the movies (insect wing helicopters, riding worms as a whole group), it seems like it would work better with a more absurdist tone as a film
What I enjoy about the way Chani is depicted in Dune: Part 2 is that Paul's courtship with Chani is used as a foil for him courting the Fremen at large to claim to be this messianic figure. Just as Paul seizing the Golden Lion Throne & launches his jihad is a betrayal of the Fremen way of life, so is his betrayal of Chani when telling her he is utterly devoted to her -- he will "love her as long as he breathes" -- but immediately casts her aside to propose marrying Princess Irulan to claim legitimacy to become Padishah Emperor. One detail is that Chani in the novels (and I presume the films as well, despite the gender swap) is Liet-Kynes's daughter. As the ecologist proposed salvation for the Fremen through the gradual, relational, ecological work to collectively make Arrakis habitable, where the Fremen collectively have the power to save themselves -- Chani in the films seems to have that similar perspective of the Fremen saving themselves, not needing a "Lawrence of Arabia"-style off-worlder to individually bring salvation.
I've only seen Dune 2 once, but if I'm being completely honest, I think the first Dune was better than the second. A lot of people called the first movie boring, but I disagree with that, to me the pacing was great, I really liked it, except the ending does feel a bit anticlimactic. The second movie imo has much worse pacing, it just feels too fast, and I would've preferred it if it were a bit slow paced, like the previous movie. But in the end, both movies are great, I'd give both an 8/10. I did watch the 1984 Dune right after watching Dune 2, and yeah, it's just a bad movie. Some cool aspects like the special effects, but overall it's just bad. I have to mention though, I loved the Baron in the movie, he was just so gross, it was awesome.
What slayed in Dune 2 was the nice swing tempo, especially "exploding" in the Spice Storage explosion scene compared to a calm montage before. Amazing VFX, 🎉🎉 The mining rig scene was EVERYTHING. And the kiss the ring was all and then some.
I liked Part 1 so much better than Part 2. The main reason being the strong characters portrayed by Oscar Isaac, Stellan Skarsgard, Javier Bardem and Josh Brolin. I feel like in Part 2, Timothy Chalamet and Zendaya get all the focus and Skarsgard and Brolin only get very small parts. Bardem's character for some reason becomes comic relief. I'm sorry, but the Chalamet and Zendaya characters are just not as compelling. I won't even talk about how horriibly miscast Walken is in this role. Also, I still have no idea what makes Spice so incredibly important in this universe. Also it might be because I am currently watching Shogun which is a masterpiece of political intrigue, but the politics and intrigue in Part 2 feels shallow and surface level.
"Also, I still have no idea what makes Spice so incredibly important in this universe." They cut out an interaction with the navigators guild at the end that would have explained a lot. After a war with AI thousands of years ago, computers are banned. So in order to safely use FTL, you have to ingest huge amounts of spice to expand your mind enough to do the calculations yourself. Without the spice, travel between worlds becomes extremely dangerous. In the book, Paul threatens the NAVIGATORS with destroying the spice, not the emperor, and they surrender immediately. Without the navigators, the Emperor and the great houses have no choice but to surrender to Paul or be stranded on Arrakis forever. They cut out so many things that could have clarified the plot that would only need a line or two here and there. Really baffled as to why so much was left out.
RIP Ralph. It’s a shame that he’s stuck in 1984
What happened? Why is he not here?
The year or the book?
@@docvince1491 Yes
@@sidrolfhe got teleported to 1984 and hasn’t been able to come back
Stuck in 1984 with David Lynch....GET REAL
The script for the Lynch film was actually pretty much identical to the book ending with the holy war. Unfortunately the studio demanded a happy ending, hence the incredibly stupid 'paul makes it rain' bit
Gotta love how David Lynch wanted Sting to be naked in Dune but the producers panicked and created an iconic G String !
A G-Sting if you will
I will.
It's not that Villeneuve doesn't want to adapt beyond Messiah; it's more that
- he doesn't want to take hypothetical projects serious until he knows that committing to them is even an actual option
- there are a slew of other projects he would love to do (especially now that he can probably do whatever the fuck he wants)
- he's currently cautious of rushing Messiah, as he doesn't want to do it before he feels the script is strong enough
But when pressed on the subject by a couple interviewers that know how to pose questions in unique ways,
Villeneuve has said he'd have to see how he feels after Messiah, and even implied he'd be involved with further adaptations in hypothetical scenarios of other filmmakers doing it (while wishing them good luck in trying)
Damn, Alex's comments about Austin Butler are some of the most off-base I've ever heard from him. I legit thought he was the most impressive actor in the film, and I don't even like him like that normally
He’s unrecognizable and plays the part pretty well.
easily the best performance in my opinion. i wish there was more screentime between him and Seydoux's character, but they couldnt do that unless they made the film R rated
@willruler8614 yeah I hear you. I think considering that it wasn't R rated, they achieved such an insanely evil and intimidating character, its not an easy task!
@@TheMimickid Blood was pretty much obscured the whole movie, i wish there was an R rated directors cut of the movie coming out but it seems like it wont happen from what ive heard
You say that as if it’s not subjective.
The pug in David Lynch's Dune was foreshadowing for Florence Pugh being in Dune Part 2.
Wait why is this comment dated 5d ago 😅
@nintendolegoboy I am subscribed to the Patreon, and I got to listen early.
Does the pug symbolize the eugenics practiced by the witches? Is Paul basically a pug
@@genarocarranza9 The one true pug. The Pugssiah
@@sloth6559 You mean the Kwisatz HaderPug?
Moulin Rouge is gonna be the easiest 1/10 Adam has ever given.
but its the best movie ever according to 2008 Confused Matthew
I remember adum after the elvis watchalong was so pissed at baz luhrmann that he removed moulin rouge from the watchlist
I've spoken with several people now who love Moulin Rouge and didn't like Elvis, which really confuses me.
Your comment aged well
@@davidyurch4446moulin rouge has an obnoxious style, but it suits the movie way more than any other Baz Luhrmann film.
George Lucas asking David Lynch to direct Star Wars did give us this piece of art: ruclips.net/video/EJQ4vCu-S0U/видео.html
I love this man so much. 😂 What a story!
I think I prefer the Lynch film despite its flaws. The Villeneuve films are better adaptations but there's something so dour and impersonal about them that turns me off a bit.
2024 is the year everyone gets Dune pilled
I’m conflicted, on one hand I’m happy it’s seeing such popularity but I’m worried I’ll be labeled normie for liking it now
I dont wanna soy but I just started reading the books and it's freaking awesome 😂😂
@@reeceloomis673 the first book is literally for normies compared to the rest of the series tbh
@@FreddyLittt you’re not wrong, i’ve read the whole series besides the last book and it gets increasingly wack as it goes on. kinda sad denis isn’t adapting any of the books after messiah because they get seriously batshit and i would love to see somebody try to translate it to live action, even though it would probably be a complete mess
@@reeceloomis673adapting all those books is just way too much of a commitment
So with all this talk about AI, when are you going to recommend Ghost in the Shell 1 and 2 and ultimately rate my favorite movies a 5/10?
Pretty sure Adum gave the first one an 8.
Adum gave the first movie an 8. Still stuck with giving it an 8 after a recent rewatch
Dogs were used in wealthy houses within monarchies frequently as symbols of power, it's not that deep.
I do sometimes wonder about things like this that they seem to completely miss or not understand.
The thing that really disappointed me about Denis Villeneuve's adaptation of Dune is the fact that he left out the most IMPORTANT scene from Dune 1984 - the cat milking scene. Completely ruined it for me.
agreed unwatchable
You joke but Thufir being missing entirely from part 2 was a huge letdown
@@jarvy251 forget Thufir, Cat lactation is where it's at here mate
@@Soyuz2578 You can't have cat-milking without the man who does it
@jarvy251 yes ok fair whack
This review was kinda weak..I dunno. It was just kinda boring. Love Sardonicast, but I’ve listened to several Dune 2 podcasts by now and this one was on the bottom. Nerd Soup had a way more entertaining Dune 2 discussion.
I'm ok with Adams opinion, but Alex in this episode really annoys me cause it seems he refuses to read the book of Dune despite loving it so much. He's so passionate here but has no clue what he's talking about
Ralph is gone.
The most accurate thing about Dune Part two is that Oscar Isaac and Rebecca Fergusson would give birth to a white Latina
Dang…
Anya taylor joy is as latina as Nicole Kidman is black.
Lololol
I’m actually wondering now if that’s why they casted her lol
@@marcobazan4187 Obviously not. She's a big name and clearly very profitable.
Chanis character is the most interesting change from the books. She was such a non important figure out side of being Paul’s wife that her looks weren’t described until near the end of Messiah.
And what they did with her leaves a lot of questions on what Villneuve will do differently for Dune Messiah.
Her features were absolutely described in book 1, as far back as Paul's dream on Caladan
1:11:35 Alex, the 'Eraserhead baby' flying around space is supposed to depict a Guild pilot in the act of navigating their space flight. The book references this process as being secretive and mysterious and involving spice so this is Lynch's interpretation of that. It's (presumably) the same eraserhead baby that Lynch opens the film with, floating in a large canister to meet with the emperor and demand Paul's death in the upcoming coup. The Guild is a very important faction politically in Dune's universe but they take a backseat in the first book so honestly I have no idea why they were given this much screentime? Not sure if this was a Lynch thing or a studio thing but yeah
They don't really take a backseat in the first book at all really. It's pretty clear that the reason paul gets away with threatening to blow up spice is because the guild gives in. They are the actual rulers of the empire that are offset by Paul. The fact that they're absent in the new version is an essential part of why it feels the political and ecological aspects of the novel were forgotten.
@@thibaultlabatide_alanore9456 yeah. They have briefly looked at the ecological station in the first movie and that’s it.
Also judging by all of the interviews Villeneuve overlooked (probably omitted) ecology themes. But i think he knew he makes a movie for mass audiences, and he was afraid that the same thing will happen to his movie as happened to Herbert’s novel (many people thought that novel celebrates Paul, that’s the reason Messiah was made). So Denis made a movie about dangers of messianic figures.
@@thibaultlabatide_alanore9456They’ll probably be in Dune Messiah
@thibaultlabatide_alanore9456 like I said, they're very important politically, and Paul keeps them very much in mind when he plots his takeover, but exactly 0 Guild members are present in the book until the very end when a couple representatives are with the emperor. So yeah I think it's fair to say they take a backseat. I would've liked to see more layers to the politics and the ecology as well but villeneuve had to cut stuff and I think focusing on the messiahship conflict was the right decision. I still think a Dune adaptation is probably best told in a miniseries format but I think these movies are the best version we'll get for a while
I found the guild navigator film easy to understand, without having read the book. I think if you listen to what the characters say the movie is pretty easy to follow.
1:27:57 The Baron is a homosexual in the books, I believe. I think it's never confirmed, but it is something that is heavily implied. I don't think Rautha is gay, but I think the Baron had a thing for him, which is how it is in the movie. I don't think they're diseased like in the movie though.
It's implied so heavily it may was well have been said explicitly. The Baron is a slave to his impulses, no control over himself whatsoever, which is why he's letting himself lust after his own nephew.
Idk how these guys can say the effects in the first Dune weren’t polished. What the hell were they watching lol.
Paul's face in the gold armor during the flashback scene was as shaky as looking at Mark Ruffalo's floating head in the Iron Man armor in Infinity War.
@Eggplantman21 That's the only weak effect i can think of. Everything else was top notch.
I watched it via re-release and home video pretty close together, I thought the effects held up a lot better on a big screen. A couple of things stood out to me as "looking cg" that looked perfectly convincing in the theatre.
That one gold armor shot is the only one that I'd call truly bad either way.
@@AimForMyHead81in the first movie, some of the balloon/tarp things looked a little bit cg to me
From what I can recall, they said the sand worm looked off at times, the inflating balloon thing they use to retrieve the sand crawler wasn’t very convincing, and the shot with Timothee’s face transposed into the helmet was the worst effect in the movie.
They are 100% going to keep making dune movies after messiah. One thing that part one doesn't get enough credit for is designing the world and the production design/art direction. They physically built so much stuff. Because Denis did all that, alot of the hard work of making the franchise translate to screen is done. The later sequels will be like the hobbit trilogy. They won't be able to resist making more but they won't have the soul that villenueve brought to it.
Lynch dune is completely incomprehensible narratively and the widely available cut is a total studio hatchet job, but i'm also glad we have both bc of the production design. It's gross and weird in a genuinely entertaining way that's completely absent from Villeneuve's brutalism as much as it is a significantly better take on the story.
I saw Dune Part 2 last week and it completely blew me away. It's absolutely outstanding
It's not even my favorite movie that I've seen in the past year but it definitely "blew me away" the most, it's just such a fucking spectacle
@@cognittie930 The dialogue though is quite lacking, which is a shame, I've never read the books but people always say it's quite heavy with philosophical themes but both Dune movies don't really have interesting lines about human nature, politics, religion, etc.
RIP Ralph, shame he never made it To Freedom (2023).
with his mic quality
1:28.42 Lynch has changed his position on watchign movies on the phone. As long as you can really pay attantion he is fine with it. Probably also because the quality just got much better.
Obligitory joke about skipping 1981 movies in the dune franchise
Super Metroid to this day has the best integration of guiding the player through their world in a way that doesn’t feel like hand holding. The youtuber Nerrel actually has a great video about Metroid, discussing intuitively leading the player through the level design, it’s great! I haven’t seen any other video game do it so well than Super Metroid, there’s a reason it’s the best Metroidvania.
Oh, I need to watch that. Super Metroid is amazing.
Part 1 isn't long enough for me - I could have sat with at least another hour which would flesh out the characters more and include more important scenes from the book. Same for Part 2.
I'm not sure about a whole hour but an extra 20-30 minutes directors cut would have been cool. But I'm also pretty certain we basically got the directors cut.
A story like Dune can only be done justice as a 10-part series
It should have been 3 separate 3 hour movies. Part 1 entails the downfall of House Atreides, part 2 the assimilation into Fremen, and part 3 is the ascension of Paul as a messiah. I love both movies but it could have been something much bigger.
The problem is that Villnueve wanted to fully get across Herberts message on the danger of putting faith in charismatic leaders like Paul. This whole trilogy is about cutting straight to that point. All the extra worldbuilding stuff is still there, just out of focus. You don't need all the explanations given by the novel, cool as they may be. You just need to understand the greek tragedy on display, and part 3/messiah will do just that (hopefully).
@@bondfall0072 Yeah I get that and I love it as it is. I think Denis is doing brilliant filmmaking here, but the fan of the novels in me is slightly disappointed. I'm not a purist by any means and like most of the changes made to the story, but I know that I would worship these movies if there was much more worldbuilding.
@@bondfall0072I disagree. Nothing in that novel is needless world building, him removing so much really takes away from the themes
@@BLooDCoMPleX that is a completely fair critique and i understand your disappointment. I guess this is just one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't. The good thing is that no one can take away the brilliance of the original novels. They will always be there for us, and will continue to inspire generations of creatives to come.
@@AGamingEntity i should have phrased my comment better because you are right, everything in that first novel is there for a reason. It paints a vivid picture of a complex society with lots of delicate moving pieces, like an old grandfather clock, and then goes into painstaking detail showing exactly why and how Paul breaks it so completely.
However, while that can easily work in a medium like the novel, trying to convey all that complexity at the same scale in the film media is a tremendous undertaking because of one big limitation: time. To me, Villenueve decision to pull focus away from the worldbuilding a bit was the right decision because it a: leaves room to explore the consequences of pauls actions in the sequel, and b: allows us to study his character without having to worry about all the moving parts.
I understand this doesn't appeal to everyone. I also have issues with some of the stuff he cut out (mainly, i wish hawat could have been included). But i understand when you adapt something as massive as Dune, you have to be pragmatic.
Fun fact: the "weirding way" sound fighting in the Lynch Dune does not exist in the book and is completely made up for the 1984 film.
Also, the ending of the 1984 Dune does not make any sense at all in the context of the world of the book because rain on Arrakis would by default kill all the sandworms, and thereby destroy the ecosystem that is needed for spice production. Humanity would be scattered throughout the universe and all trade would cease to exist.
Scattered? Thankfully that never happens
It would almost like some sort of great scattering if you will
That and the whole Paul is the Messiah completely undermined the whole point of the story.
isn't the weirding way just the name of the bene gesserit martial art in the book?
Im not bothered by the raining ending because adaptation-wise the Lynch movie DOES NOT say that water is fatal to sandworms so I can let it slide.
Simple issue is that it just plays the chosen one thing completely straight and its just "Royal kid gets attacked by bad guys, kills bad guys and becomes super and everything's awesome" ... yaaay?
Im honestly happy David Lynch made a campy weirdo hot mess film, in the hands of a studio puppet director I cant imagine how more transparent the script being a bad adaptation would be, for better or worse thanks to Lynch the 1984 movie is still worth a watch thanks to its weirdness elevating a bad script that misses the overall point of the book.
I wish Austin butler was in it more! He was an entertaining character!
Agreed. Toto is great and their score for Dune (1984) was great.
The director of To Freedom is actually a woman. I watched one of her other movies Sistá.
It didn't have any of the sound issues, but abuse and plot twists seems to be a recurring theme with her.
At one point, to show a time skip, the main character's actor says "3 days" in a voice over. This is the only voice over of the movie.
@8:34 'it needed a few more renders' -when people who have no idea how VFX work try to criticise VFX...
That doesn't make sense, there is only ever ONE render in a movie, the render you see on the screen.
adding more renders doesn't mean anything.
It needed more samples would still be kinda stupid but at least it would make sense.
@@prashastpandey I mean maybe I could be less pedantic and he mean it needed to be re-rendered, but then you have to include descriptions of what needed to be changed about the render, better lighting? More samples like you said, better animation, etc. and btw film critics don't have to know all the details of the process to be allowed to criticize the VFX, but don't adopt technical language to appear like what you're saying has value when it really is an empty statement. It's okay to just say "I didn't like the CG in X scene it looked bad"
You get what they mean though, needed more work
@@trapadvisor ok I'll stop being so SARDONIC
@@bonebrew22 I interpreted that as "They needed to do some changes and this again cause this version sucks."
I’m shocked they haven’t done the evil dead trilogy yet
Maybe for Halloween I hope. I'd prefer if Ralph could participate
If Villeneuve is allowed to make a second Dune movie, then goddammit Biodun Stephen should be allowed to make Two Freedom.
The tactical pug Stuart was holding was hilarious.
Watch the Sh*t Show Podcast which covers why 1984 Dune ended up the way it was released.
In short, it was a mixture of Lynch's inexperience and the producer and studio's meddling.
I guess this makes me realise how much more I enjoyed both films given that I read the book first. Paul's internal narration really helps to sell the importance of everything that happens, from the perspective of what he can see will happen in the future as a consequence of his decisions and actions. That's so difficult to convey in a film, and they did try, but really I think the ideal watching experience is to be familiar with the book first. Which sucks, of course - the film should be able to stand on its own.
To Freedom needs its sequels,to make a quadrilogy! They should be call "TWO Freedom", "To THREE-Dom" and "FOUR FREEDOM!!!" 😂
Seems too weird to me to call _Dune_ the new _Star Wars._ To be _Star Wars,_ kids have to pretend they're in it. I don't see a seven-year-old kid running around with friends in their backyard, pretending to be Atreides and Harkonnens fighting.
But just imagine how fun it would be to be a kid in a friends group - one is slicing necks of his bald girlfriend 'pets', the other one is drinking poison and insists everyone should worship her and her son, others are riding worms.. seems like a fun childhood
The setting of Dune's Imperium is a place where no one really has true agency - even the Emperor is puppeted by the bene gesserit and the Bene Gesserit are slaves to unfolding a plan set in motion millennia ago - the lack of agency is the POINT. It is only after Paul is inadvertently freed from this system that he can exercise agency, and even that is driven by the narrow path of survival, safety and revenge against a system that will never tolerate his freedom.
The prophecy/chosen one angle is explicitly stated as a fabrication by the bene gesserit even in part 1. I'd agree that Part 1 had pacing issues and it frankly cuts a lot of meat and layers of intrigue from the book that should have been kept in to keep it more interesting, but it's a setting that does need time to be established.
Walken was horribly miscast, probably the only casting stumble. Baffling decision.
Hard agree on Walken, couldve given it to literally any other old guy actor and it would have been fine
@@Realmohg Not even an older man necessarily, in the book he has treatments that extends his life so he only looks about 30.
Walken 20 years ago would've made more sense. He can play the powerful-ruler type with gravitas, for e.g. he did play a Roman senator in a miniseries about Julius Caesar.
When I first read the book I envisioned Charles Dance and then I heard about casting of Walken, it felt… off. But now that it’s all said and done I find it inoffensive.
@@elite3254 Dance would have been magnificent
Is IHE dying? he sounds like he has throat cancer or something.
I had flu when we recorded this ep!
@@IHE tbh that's much more reasonable then what I came up with
The rest of the franchise should go to George Miller
I was just looking for a sardonicast to relisten and this popped up hell yeah
Part 1 Paul is meant to be a 14 year old boy and there's not much to him, his life is predetermined and it is meant to be more about the people around him: Duke Leto, Jessica, Reverend Mother, Gurney, Thufir, Dr Yueh, House Harkonnen, Arakeen etc.
The problem with part 1 is they cut so much content and context behind those other characters that you miss out on a lot of the tension, political scheming, backstory behind characters, emotion and soul from the book.
It's not up to about the tent scene in the book that you see the switch in his character, his childhood dies and he becomes a man, from that moment on he becomes the central character, before that it's about Jessica and Leto's relationship, and how Harkonnen and Emperor are trying to tear House Atreides apart from within. It's much clearer in the book. In short, should've been a trilogy or a 10 episode series like Shogun on Disney +.
Part 2 could've focussed more on him and his relationship with the Fremen, introducing Feyd Rautha etc. Rabban getting screwed by the Fremen. Then part 3 could've just been total war. It would've been similar to LOTR trilogy in that way, where the final battle decides the fate of the universe. Messiah as part 4. Children of Dune part 5 and 6. God Emperor part 7 and 8.
Dune 2: 2 Freedom
Every time I saw Christopher Walken in Dune 2: "Walk without rhythm, and it won't attract the worm" 😂 Also a quick "um actually" Biodun Stephen is a she btw
Anyway love the podcast Bois, can't wait for the next!!
My fav podcast, watching this podcasts since 2018
Im a new fan, been watching YMS since forever though. Adum doesn’t advertise this pod enough. Its fine though im catching up with all the old episodes
@@bat1579same, I have just cought up and listened to all episodes, was a fan of yms for ages though
Wild that Adam enjoyed Star Wars TFA but not Dune.....
He's a fruit
FINALLY! I wanted to see Adam talk about Dune 2
Where is the little guy? The other one? Roger or Roy … little wiener kid, always got his hands in his pockets. That guy. Where he at?
80s Dune is so much better than the new ones.
Saw this comment on another video:
Book Readers: “They cut too much.”
Movie Watchers: “They should’ve cut more.”
Hey, could be both. Book readers wanted a series, and movie watchers just wanted a shorter movie. Both ways can be adapted
Thanks guys! Can't wait to take a snippet of Adum saying something out of context and put it on Twitter later 😊
Is that something that happens?
Saying the visuals in Part 1 were unfinished and embarrassing to look at in 10 to 15% of the scenes is embarrassing to admit. Dune pt 1 has some of the best visual effects in any movie in the past decade
Nah they're 100% right about that scene where Paul takes of his helmet. It look really bad. Cry some more fanboy.
Not every day does this Podcast talk about three amazing films in one episode...
In David Lynch's 1984 film Dune, I once stated that Sting's first portrayal of Fayd-Rautha Harkonnen looks like a child that has a secret.
I must now add that the actor who portrays Glossu "the Beast" Rabban, looks like a child that knows where the Christmas presents are hidden.
I enjoyed Dune 2 much more than the first. Amazing performances, beautiful visuals, and enthralling plot. 8/10 for me.
i prefer Dune part 1 to part 2. i like both but i did find myself getting a bit bored at points but loved part 1.
adum is just so not a scifi guy
Smooth brain comment
@@madhousestudios5214 i cant remember him mentioning star trek even once in passing in the last 12 years which is disturbing
Is this the first time the recomened movie is not even in the thumbnail?
I FUCKING. LOVED Paul’s arc of accepting his role as a false messiah and jihadist using manipulation and prescience. Such an interesting concept amidst a fascinating universe and a high-stakes war. Imagine J.J Abrahms or some other Star Wars hack watching this and measuring their work against it.
Adam ending with Spice Girl lyrics made my day.
Oo three, I didn’t realize how many openings I’d get into with that drawing. Glad to be on the Dune ep. Sorry I drew you the weirdest Alex, but I felt like you’d be giving the alpha predator glare. Do a Jardonicast soon or I’ll cry.
Dune of freedom
*New Sardonicast uploaded*
As it was written…
OneyPlays, Snark Tank & Sardonicast?
Today is a good day.
Really annoys me how Adam refuses to talk about films thematically. He will only talk about the production and surface level aspects of the writing. What's the point of talking about movies if we cant talk about what they mean, or what theyre attempting to mean.
I would hate to live on Arrakis, everybody sucks there
Dune Part 2: Even Dunier
I think Christopher Walken was only cast because he was in the Weapon of Choice music video. Denis probably thought it would be funny.
I feel like denis and co. were just being funny about it, why else would the emperor say "MORE, MORE" in the most Walken way possible? We already have Javier Bardem goofing it up
Alex please read the book, its so much better (imo the films are very different from the book)
The book isn't like star wars, its more space - death note - game of thrones - macbeth - hamlet - the holy mountain.
In theory, Lynch and Jodorowsky aren't weird picks to make a dune adaptation.
mindhunters is the one where he says "his weakness was bullets"?
pretty sure thats what adam was referencing
Alex going a bit too indepth on what he knows of the other books 💀
what does that even mean?
@@madhousestudios5214 that he spoilered a bunch
@@LilypadOWI mean all he said was the basic blurb, he's not giving away loads
Review Dolomite
Take me to space, dune worm
I still don't get how Adum finds a movie like Dune part 1 boring but gives a 10 to a movie like Amour, or Michael Haneke in general.
Because Amour has heart and character? Dune part 1 has none of that, it has style and tone but thats it
It's called having a different taste
Poor little fella
Dune part 1 hasnt got a sliver of the depth of any Michael haneke film, what a horrible take 😂
Because people can think differently than you
44:48 The hand to hand combat is more than just an excuse for mixing fantasy and sci-fi. The shields create an atomic explosion when hit by a laser beam coming from a lasgun, killing the gunner and the target simultaneously. This is why they use daggers and swords. However, when fighting in the deep desert, outside of fortifications like the city of Arrakeen, they don’t use shields because the micro vibrations coming from them attract the worms. This is why we see lasgun fights in Part II, like in the opening scene where the Fremen kill the Harkonnen snipers. In that scene, the snipers actually mention not to turn on their shields, so a. They don’t attract the worms, and b. They don’t cause an atomic explosion. So yea, there’s more thought put into the hand to hand combat than just unnecessary action scenes with swords in a sci-fi context.
35:30 lmaoooo I swear one of his deliveries sounds like shapey from moral orel saying “drink!”
1:18:28 And then in Part 2 we hear the Harkonnens pronounce their own name "Harkweeneen"
Sardonicasts takes on dune have always felt a little off based and misinformed really, they’re just not informative feel like a bad kermode rant
Adum, Dune isnt a starwars type movie, it's really starwars is Dune type everything.
I really feel like I need to see Dune: Messiah get adapted. Getting a bit fatigued by this first story. Having now seen all these Dune films they're all at 7/10 at this moment - need to rewatch the new ones though and judge part 1 and part 2 as one.
Hopefully there will be a future film adaptation of God Emperor of Dune!
Ralph is usually the most extroverted of the 3 so it will be nice hearing a dialogue between the foreigns
I’m really upset this isn’t in 4k
25:42 Alex, I’m guessing your local IMAX was in Swindon? It’s reopened now, Vue took over it in December (was also my local IMAX). Saw Godzilla Minus One there which was amazing
Thanks for the info! I only found out it re-opened about a week ago so it’s nice to have that option again!
I believe the only way Frank Herbert's Dune saga can truly be done justice is as a televsion series. 6, 10 episode long seasons spanning the books. As it stands, the closest we've actually gotten to a genuinely faithfully adaptation is the 2000 Sci-Fi channel miniseries and its sequel. It hasnt aged well but it captures the story far better than the films. The films themselves needed to be at least 3 hours long each.
I’m with Adam on part 1. I really enjoyed part 2 quite a bit more but it doesn’t make part 1 any better for me. Too long and too boring, could’ve been 40 minutes to an hour shorter.
Edit: YES! What Adam said about wanting them mashed together in a four (or five maybe) hour movie is exactly how I feel.
2:09:53 I have a video on my page with mixing and mastering tips
“Mix and Master Clean Modern with 808 drums and melody IN CAR ON PHON AND ALL SPEAKERS”
Hope it helps!
From what I know about the Dune books and some of the ideas in the movies (insect wing helicopters, riding worms as a whole group), it seems like it would work better with a more absurdist tone as a film
What I enjoy about the way Chani is depicted in Dune: Part 2 is that Paul's courtship with Chani is used as a foil for him courting the Fremen at large to claim to be this messianic figure. Just as Paul seizing the Golden Lion Throne & launches his jihad is a betrayal of the Fremen way of life, so is his betrayal of Chani when telling her he is utterly devoted to her -- he will "love her as long as he breathes" -- but immediately casts her aside to propose marrying Princess Irulan to claim legitimacy to become Padishah Emperor.
One detail is that Chani in the novels (and I presume the films as well, despite the gender swap) is Liet-Kynes's daughter. As the ecologist proposed salvation for the Fremen through the gradual, relational, ecological work to collectively make Arrakis habitable, where the Fremen collectively have the power to save themselves -- Chani in the films seems to have that similar perspective of the Fremen saving themselves, not needing a "Lawrence of Arabia"-style off-worlder to individually bring salvation.
i think the freman woman (frewoman?) in the first movie tried to scream it as it was in the book
Sardaukar-nicast
Day 72 of asking for an episode on the Evil Dead trilogy
I've only seen Dune 2 once, but if I'm being completely honest, I think the first Dune was better than the second. A lot of people called the first movie boring, but I disagree with that, to me the pacing was great, I really liked it, except the ending does feel a bit anticlimactic. The second movie imo has much worse pacing, it just feels too fast, and I would've preferred it if it were a bit slow paced, like the previous movie. But in the end, both movies are great, I'd give both an 8/10.
I did watch the 1984 Dune right after watching Dune 2, and yeah, it's just a bad movie. Some cool aspects like the special effects, but overall it's just bad. I have to mention though, I loved the Baron in the movie, he was just so gross, it was awesome.
What slayed in Dune 2 was the nice swing tempo, especially "exploding" in the Spice Storage explosion scene compared to a calm montage before. Amazing VFX, 🎉🎉 The mining rig scene was EVERYTHING. And the kiss the ring was all and then some.
Dang forgot about this channel. This is the first time in years I’ve seen it in my feed. Great chat.
I liked Part 1 so much better than Part 2. The main reason being the strong characters portrayed by Oscar Isaac, Stellan Skarsgard, Javier Bardem and Josh Brolin. I feel like in Part 2, Timothy Chalamet and Zendaya get all the focus and Skarsgard and Brolin only get very small parts. Bardem's character for some reason becomes comic relief. I'm sorry, but the Chalamet and Zendaya characters are just not as compelling. I won't even talk about how horriibly miscast Walken is in this role. Also, I still have no idea what makes Spice so incredibly important in this universe.
Also it might be because I am currently watching Shogun which is a masterpiece of political intrigue, but the politics and intrigue in Part 2 feels shallow and surface level.
"Also, I still have no idea what makes Spice so incredibly important in this universe." They cut out an interaction with the navigators guild at the end that would have explained a lot. After a war with AI thousands of years ago, computers are banned. So in order to safely use FTL, you have to ingest huge amounts of spice to expand your mind enough to do the calculations yourself. Without the spice, travel between worlds becomes extremely dangerous. In the book, Paul threatens the NAVIGATORS with destroying the spice, not the emperor, and they surrender immediately. Without the navigators, the Emperor and the great houses have no choice but to surrender to Paul or be stranded on Arrakis forever.
They cut out so many things that could have clarified the plot that would only need a line or two here and there. Really baffled as to why so much was left out.
Dune 1984 might be the most boring movie I've ever watched. Doesn't help that it's just hideous to look at half the time.
There are waaaaaaay more than 6 Dune books, that’s just the ones by Frank Herbert.
Many Dune fans consider the stuff from his son as bad fanfiction. A lot of it is just mindless pulp without substance.