Whoever edited this deserves a raise. They cropped the entire thing so that not one frame revealed Mike being passed out on the floor next to their feet.
The worms "liquifying" the sand is an absolutely genius idea. Not only it is a real physical effect but it also makes sense for the worms to do it given that they have to "swim" through the sand.
Frank Herbert was a geologist and I always remember opening up the book in my teens and reading the incredibly descriptive passages describing the landscape. Little touches like this are so genius
Mike is being restrained because the sole presence of Patrick Stewart in the old Dune movie would''ve set off a 10 min tangent about the episodes of TNG it reminds him of, like Final Mission.
It's very reflective of actual technological progress throughout history. Like, how armor goes in and out of "fashion" because of the advancement of weaponry that can pierce it.
@@Rov-Nihil If you're talking about the movie: did you watch it? It works by slowing things down. If someone threw a spear, it would hit the shield and stop. The spear would only go through the shield if someone was holding it and applied a slow, consistent pressure. A normal missile would probably hit the shield and just immediately explode, but we're also shown that the Harkonnens have advanced weapons that are able to apply their own consistent pressure and propel themselves through the shields, like the darts or bombs. If you're talking about real life: Flares. They work against missiles, don't work against spears
The personal shield is one of my favorite tech of the book. The shield was invented to protect soldiers from projectiles so tactics had to change to get past them. But shields attract worms on Dune so the Fremen never use them and have different fighting tactics. Which is one reason they are so hard for off worlders to beat.
@@craigboyle9714 Absolutely! That Lynchian version is orders of magnitude more interesting. I read somewhere it took 6 months to draw those boxes on each frame. It's a brilliant piece of cinematic craftsmanship.
Why do the shields not just protect from all attacks. Haven't read the books since my teens. It seems like some weird neo-feudal chivalry or code of ethics that just seem to be adherred to.
@@Popm3lon They're the energy field equivalent of a non newtonian fluid, specifically a shear thickening fluid. The faster an object tries to move through the shield the tighter the shield pushes back against it. It's like when people run across vats of cornstarch mixed with water, called oobleck. It only works if they run across. If they walk they just sink right in.
But wait. What the Bene Gesserit do is much worse than what Colin says. They didn't plant prophecies on planets so they would believe in the Kwisatz Haderach when he came. They planted prophecies so should a Bene Gesserit become stranded on a planet somewhere, she can use the locals' religion (that the Bene Gesserit seeded) to help herself find safety and get back home. Which is exactly what Jessica is planning to do because she has heard keywords from the Fremen since they landed on Dune that these religious escape routes were instilled. It's so cynical and blew my 16 year old mind when I first read it. As I say, Dune is about (in part) the politics of religion and the religion of politics.
The second book is also about no matter how much you use religion to control society, you will lose control of that religion and it will eventually control you too.
@@axonassault Which is ironic, because he has a better understanding of it compared to most sci-fi authors. Heinlain and Assimov were very anti-religious too but they didn't really know what they were talking about when they brought it up.
My personal favorite part about Dune is the bizarre names. No other piece of media would have a character named Feyd-Rautha Harkonen and Duncan Idaho in the same story and take itself seriously
Yeah, Dune was the first time I started paying attention to that kind of thing in sci-fi. "I am Blangogar, Lord of the Eight Peaks and Leader of it's peoples. This is Dave."
The Dune Empire has over 10,000 planets... But here on Earth we have exactly that situation. We have people named Joe Montana and also Boutros Boutros-Ghali. So, just because they don't live down the street from you.
@Nicholas Cage Well technically Harkonnen is not a Finnish surname, but derived from one, semantics, I know. Most Finnish surnames that end with -nen have a vowel before nen, like Virtanen and Lahtinen, and even then, most of them have a word related to nature before the end part, like the two examples given, with virta meaning stream and lahti meaning bay, but there are exceptions, like with Härkönen, from which Harkonnen was derived, if Wikipedia is to be believed. And even then, Härkönen is quite close to the Finnish word härkä, meaning ox. But yeah, semantics and practically Finnish
The navigators quite literally navigate. Holtzmann Drives make folding space possible and the process itself feels near instantaneous to anyone on board. But they're still physically travelling through the space between the two folded points. In the Dune universe, thinking machines are banned, so they don't have the computational power necessary to plot the courses themselves. That's where navigators come in. Because they're prescient, they can see many possible futures and pick the safest one.
which is also important to know because that is how paul beats the guild in the books because they focus so much on being safe that he knows they would not do anything risky in order to beat him
That never made sense to me, since if you're folding space rather than other forms of travelling faster than light, there wouldn't be anything between your origin and destination points, as they would be directly next to each other, and it would actually be instant.
Since you’ve popped the seal on didactic nerd stuff, what’s with all the lasers? I thought the whole reason Dune was all knives and sh!t was because the Holtzman shield had a catastrophic interaction with lasers. And here they’re just blasting away with ultra violet lasers.
@@michaelbukowski7396 yeah that was my only gripe with the Villeneuve movie. You're absolutely correct, lasguns and shields is like mixing nitroglycerin with antimatter
The 3 hour Spicediver fan edit of the David Lynch Dune that readds a ton of cut scenes is a legitimate masterpiece. I really wish that Lynch had final cut.
It's actually sickening how many films that flopped would have been better versions of themselves if studios didn't waste money on reshoots to CUT critical scenes, instead of spending half that money on letting the fucking directors just make a good movie.
@@MrDrProfessorPurpleagree. Kingdom of Heaven was crucified by the cut. It’s more painful as apparently it was cut by Scott upon request by the studio.
"It was a nightmare and.....It was a nightmare." That pause says more than a thousand words. You can see Lynch stare into the abyss in utter horror for a few seconds over what he endured.
A lot of the actual shooting was a big long alcoholic party in New Mexico. I bet he's thinking of having to write a million different Dune screenplays to get one he liked + watching his movie get butchered after he spent years on it 😢
There actually was a reference to Lynch's Dune in the new film. The crew that comes to clean out the Baron's quarters after he was poisoned are dressed in the same black hazmat suits that a lot of Lynch's Harkonnens wore. Someone probably already replied with this, if not then cool.
The hazmat guys in the Villeneuve one aren't wearing the same hazmat suits that the Sardaukar were, though they do look similar. It may have been an intentional reference, but might have also just been a practical decision since that scene has those guys entering a room full of toxic gas. Though, I do think there were some blatant references to Lynch's version, specifically the Baron being able to float. In the book, his antigravity device doesn't let him float, so much as simply walk around as a normal, non-obese person. Also I think the bullets that slow down before penetrating the shields in the Villeneuve version may have also been taken from the Lynch version since I don't recall that in the book, though I could be wrong about that.
Funny thing is there was a Dune game from the early 2000's that actually had Worf from TNG playing the Atreides Duke. Also not Star Trek, but one by the same studio (Westwood) in the late 90's had Gimli from LotR as its Atreides officer.
Little bit of (non Star Trek) trivia: in both versions, the character of Stilgar, leader of the Fremen, is played by a James Bond villain: Everett McGill in the 1984 film (and crooked DEA agent Kilifer in 1989's License to Kill) and Javier Bardem in the 2021 one (who of course was the main villain, Raoul Silva, in 2012's Skyfall). EDIT: actually, make it THREE versions! I just found out Steven Berkoff, who was Soviet general Orlov in 1983's Octopussy opposite Roger Moore's Bond, also played Stilgar in the Children of Dune TV series!
Colin gets all kind of credit for knowing that it's the ships that fold space, and that the Navigators use prescience to guide the ship safely through folded space, by avoiding the possible futures in which the ship is destroyed in transit.
But he loses points for not knowing that the navigators are not actually described in the original novel. Two guild ‘navigators’ are mentioned, but they are not mutated and it’s implied that they are not the type of navigator that actually guides ships. The description of the flippers, elongated heads, and v-shaped mouths are all in the sequels. It would be more faithful to the book if the new Dune never showed any mutated navigators in the second part.
The navigators are described in the second book, Dune Messiah. Edric the Guild Navigator is a fairly major character. So they'll have to figure it out before the Messiah movie. But you're right, Navigators don't appear in the novel. There are Guildsmen, but they're not at the point of living in a spice gas tank.
In addition to everything else people have said, the specific language of "folding space" wasn't used in the original novel. It's something David Lynch dreamed up for his adaptation.
@@newq This is true. I read the novel six times and the only time this "space fold" stuff is mentioned is in the 1984 movie and the Brian/Andersen books (which are suspect as to whether they are canon...I prefer the canon of the old Dune Encyclopedia, which also does not mention space folding). It is true that the Guild navigates FTL space travel by avoiding potential dangers in the path of the vessel through heightened sensory abilities that might be perceived as seeing future dangers across time.
The Reason Princess Irulan fades in and out at the beginning of the film is when they developed the film they found out the negative had scratches on it in several parts of the sequence, but Madsen had already flown home so rather than call her back they fade out when the scratches were about to appear and back in when they've gone !
@@andrewglazebrook1585 I have a local library that has the making of book. I'll have to go check it out and see if this is in there. I don't remember it, but I probably didn't read the whole thing.
It's worth mentioning that space travel IS possible without Spice (It would have to be for them to have found Arrakis in the first place). It's just prohibitively dangerous. Something like 1 in 10 attempts result in the destruction of the ship.
Not only that, but the navigation computers had to be very smart machines -- Something which was disallowed after the Butlerian Jihad, where the new Space Pope said AIs were bad after a long war with the machines. Hence Mentats and analog controls in the ornithopers.
Before the properties of Spice was discovered, Humanity has spread among the stars using "conventional" methods of travel, meaning some sort of FTL-drive, which was a lot slower. Traveling between stars usually took weeks or even months, making Human-colonized space very hard, if not impossible, to govern.
Lynch's Dune is definitely a guilty pleasure for me. I love the weirdness, the camp, the effects. And no matter how much Lynch hated the film, it made the world a better place by introducing him to Kyle MacLachlan.
I love the things in it that you can't unsee. Like the guy that trips and falls behind the navigator tank, the harkonnen soldiers wearing black Converses, and Patrick Stewart's obvious stunt double.
Everybody overexplaining everything in inner monologue was too tiresome to me. Not only that, they would go on and inner monologue the thing just told by the narration few seconds ago. I heard show, don't tell. I heard explicit delivery. It was the first time I saw a "Explicitly tell and then Explain more"
Okay, the pug is really pretty simple. Took me a long time too. It's just the Atreides's dog. Like the actual pet of the royal family. Gurney clings to it because it's the thing he managed to save.
It’s hilarious to me that if Denis adapted all of the Frank books, Jason Mamoa would be the only one in all but the last one. Isn’t it a younger Duncan Idaho in that one?
@@thebazhammer2610 Yeah and it's ghola clones out the wazoo throughout the series so in all seriousness they could be different castings in each movie and just be explained by the age differences of the clones Or CGI Momoa for years to come, who knows.
"I don't know if David Lynch has ever read a book, period... Or seen a movie.... Or seen sculptures or paintings..." Obviously tongue in cheek to a certain extent, but it also makes a lot of sense considering how incredibly unique his style is. Everything Lynch does is so unapologetically Lynch, and I love it.
Everett McGill had a role of all off a couple minutes in Straigh Storey where he farewelled Richard Farnsworth on his epic lawn mower journey. In that short time he displayed emotion and genuine concern rarely seen in actors. Goes back to akin to Tony Quinn’s Oscar for about the same amount of time on screen. Same could be said for Harry Dean Stanton’s couple minutes at the end of the same movie. Tears welled up in my eyes about 3 seconds after he opened his mouth. Amazing short scenes that were those actors only scenes so they put everything into that scene.
Duncan Idaho's name works because for them, Earth is sort of a mythical land from pre-history. It'd be like one of our modern surnames like Beaumont that refers to a place that doesn't mean anything in particular to us anymore.
My father in law's lukewarm review of the 1984 rests entirely on the fact that a guy 10,000 years into the future, a future of multiple varied human societies on various planets with deeply shifted social and religious cultures, is named Duncan Idaho.
Piter de Vries is basically a modern dutch name as well, though it would be spelled "Pieter". I always thought it was neat because you see historic words and phrases come back as well (eg. Landsraad, another dutch one) so why not names.
I love how Josh Brolin trained Chalamet for war. He's so aggressive, almost frustrated to see how nonchalant Chalamet was during training. The way he said about the Harkonnens: "They're not humans, they're BRUTAL!". I really felt the desperation in his voice. Perfectly cast in my opinion.
Word. The movie does such a good job of creating a sense of impending dread. From the get go you just feel this doom coming for house atreides. I felt it so strongly
You really feel it, don't you? I'm not sure if you know, but Duke Leto rescued Brolin's character Gurney from a Harkonen slave pit, so he knows first-hand what they're like.
@Nicholas Cage Book Gurney was too goofy for the setting and the atmosphere Villeneuve was going for. Toning him down was as good a change as Peter Jackson cutting Tom Bombadil.
I don’t know why, but the idea of David Lynch as a man who has never read a book or seen a movie, sculpture, or painting had me laughing for over a solid minute. If I told someone watching Eraserhead or Mullholland Drive that as if it were an established fact, I wonder if they’d question it.
@@Kikefriki That's a misunderstanding. David Lynch loves dune (the pile of sand). Which is why all his movies are as interesting as watching rocks move, and twice as slow
Lynch needs to do the voice of Garfield, but they should never let him know that they're recording him. Just bug him and let him ramble for a few months about how much he hates cell phones and loves Laura Dern.
49:33 I've got a bit of your explanation right here. In 2018, when I was a cab driver in Montreal, I met Villeneuve and we talked a little bit. I asked him how Blade Runner 2049 did overall and he said that box office wise, it didn't perform like the studio wanted BUT that its after-life in home releases (both physical and digital) largely surpassed their expectations and did actually pretty well.
Well, that's sort of a non-statment, isn't it? "Did better than expected on streaming" doesn't mean much when it flopped pretty hard in the box office, there weren't exactly high expectations. Of course we don't know the exact streaming deals it had but rough estimates tells us the film never even got close to break even.... As a conservative estimate it lost the studio at least 70 million USD. Most likely quite a bit more.
@@bilbo1778 As someone who worked directly with that film I can tell you what you said is pretty much nonsense. The film is indeed seen as a major flop by the studio and "Oh well, we made the director happy" and "We'll make it back through streaming rights the coming decade" isn't really how the industry works. At all. You make it sound like you're stating facts but really you don't work in the industry, do you? Because you seem to make a lot of assumptions...
I loved that scene when the guys came in to clean up all the dead bodies from the tooth poison and they were like "oh shit" when they saw the baron on the ceiling
Also the Baron floating is entirely from Lynch (in the book the Baron has suspensors but they just make him weigh slightly less, he still walks everywhere and never flies) and the weird creepy latex fetish spider arm "thing" that the Bene Gesserit demands leave before she will speak with the Harkonnens in the new movie seems like a potential Lynch homage; the spider thing isn't in the book either or based on anything in any of the books and Villeneuve is both a huge fan of the novel Dune and a big fan of Lynch.
@@Wavyhill I believe when the baron dies the book mentions that his body floats off the ground but that’s the only spot in the books where I can recall him floating.
The oppressive feeling people you’re talking about, with the weird throat chant, are not the Harkonnen, but another faction called Sardaukar. They are elite warriors of the emperor who later basically become guns for hire.
Iirc they're from some crap hole prison planet and supposed to be really ruthless, violent and scary. They're really competent, but not particularly good at asymmetrical desert warfare.
@@noahs150 Salusa Secundus. Though they are elite warriors they don't have millennia of desert warfare experience like the Fremen, so it mirrors the Lawrence of Arabia arch of the locals rising up against their imperial overlords.
And the soundtrack chosen as the “movie’s sound” made all the more hilarious. Right as the sweeping choir chants start pumping in, the hard cut. Their comedic editing is the best.
Can't help but feel like it's a poke at that David Lynch interview where he talks about how you "can't truly experience the magic of cinema on your fuckin' phone." lol
The shields in the 1984 Dune weren't CGI, but they were designed to resemble CGI. They were painstakingly hand-drawn with there being multiple film passes for each side of the shield. Lynch or someone wanted them to look very geometric, and it's unfortunately ironic that so much painstaking work went into creating such a cheap looking effect.
Ironically if they went the easier route and just made it a colored light effect around the actors silhouette (which would have still been hard but not nearly AS difficult) it would have looked better.
In response to Jay's shield comments: I think the idea behind the slow-blade shield ""weakness"" is that it's a compromise between allowing the shield user to pick up stuff and interact with the environment without the shield constantly pushing everything away and causing you to slip and slide along the ground cause your shield is repulsing it, etc etc. I always thought it was a brilliant idea
@@nemo-zl1vm Technically air moves really, REALLY fast. So there's something other than just speed involved in keeping air out (And you CAN dial it up to keep air out/in. Leto does it once.)
Colin is the funniest guest, I wish he were on more often. Mike would have been great too but there's a danger he'd have hijacked the discussion to peddle his Star Trek religion again.
I’d not say he’s the funniest, but his description of the David Carradine garden hose infomercial years before they watched it for BotW still kills me. He said Carradine’s dog was so embarrassed about the whole thing he just got up and walked away.
The spacing guild vacuum cleaner squad actually made sense to me, if spice is as valuable as everyone says it is then it actually makes sense to have a team follow you around hoovering up every last drop for later recovery/reuse. A bit like a pre-decriminalisation pothead looking for dicarded nuggs between the sofa cushions when there's a drought on.
The inner monologue of the Lynch version might be an homage to the fact that the book is written in such a way we’re a passage written from one character’s point of view will include the inner thoughts of others in the scene. Also adds to the “witches’” (I know they have a proper name but I’m not going to even try to spell it right) have such powerful comprehension skills that they can nearly read the minds of others.
Yep, and Dennis adapted it perfectly. In movies, clunky narration to account for inner monologue makes the movie experience worse. Sure the new harkonnen isn’t as fun as lynch version. But it makes more sense for a movie. Most of harkonnens character came from his inner monologue. He usually barely spoke in the books.
My favorite meme about dune was a Twitter post saying: Every character in Dune: He nodded, in the secret way that his secret order trained him to do, indicating a hidden danger. "How brilliant," I thought to myself, "to the untrained observer he would appear to simply be nodding but careful observation shows his true intent."
To be fair to David Lynch, the romance between Paul and Chani happens just as quickly in the book, and there is a time skip just as jarring to when Alia is born.
Something that the adaptations don't get across well in general is that Dune is more similar to an anthology of short stories that come together for a grandnarrative rather than a congruent set of books Most don't even know that Dune is a entire series of books that span over a large period of time and not a novel. When people talk about Dunes influence it more so relates to the other books but most just say "Dune". Like books 2-4 heavily inspired Warhammer40k. The term God emperor or someone that rules galaxy spanning empires comes from dune.
The reason why Paul and Chani fall in love so fast is that during the Spice Orgy, Paul sees his future with her. The Fremen all have a little touch of prescience when they're hopped up on spice, so Chani sees her future with Paul, as well. They both know they'll end up in love, so they get started.
@@TNTspaz exactly. A good example is that the entire arc of Paul throughout the series is really integral to understanding and appreciating his character within each book. I see a lot of complaints about Paul being a sort of Mary Sue from people who only read or saw the first story, and its really unfortunate, because if you know his entire arc you can see how that isn't remotely true
@@RedHeadKevin that's true the book does give a reason for their love happening so fast. I actually kind of like that it happens quickly in the book, but it is hard to translate that to the screen.
The Baron has a ‘suspensor’ levitation device. A number of the characters have them. Momoa uses his to float briefly in his fight scenes if you watch closely.
@@BlueisNotaWarmColour The books do mention that the Baron is so grotesquely fat that he's unable to walk without the levitators but, yeah, he doesn't use them to fly around.
The comment near the end that Lynch's film "felt like a nightmare" is spot-on, and my biggest takeaway from this discussion (which is excellent). For all its many faults, the Lynch film has that dark, claustrophobic, weird, terrifying quality that probably can't ever be repeated now. A "problematic" film, to say the least, but a unique one.
The production was a mess. Lynch is at his best when he's allowed to do his thing, and he wasn't allowed to be David Lynch on Dune. Unfortunately, he isn't good at not being David Lynch and he knew that. He pretty much disowned the movie.
Villeneuve's space travel is actually shown in a specific shot in the movie, by removing the "moving" part, which is a perfect reference to the "Traveling without moving" theme of Dune. So, in this shot - at 20:40 in the movie, when The Reverend Mother visits Caladan to test Paul - you can basically see through the space tube and you can clearly see one planet on the other side - basically implicating that the space tube is a shortcut between the worlds. It is a very interesting take on long-range space travel itself. (Edited to add the specific shot in the movie)
But, at the same time, the new film just says "Spice allows for space travel..." and as a someone not familiar with the universe I just went "Okay yeah." I didn't need to know *how* it made it possible, because we have analogs to spice in our world: Oil/fuel. I don't really need to know if it just fuels the ship or if it's helping mutant psychics pick the best path.
I was a young kid when I first saw Dune and despite all it's flaws, I considered it a great movie. It's all so weird yet still feels realistic in some way.
The way new movie says Harkonnen is closer to the finnish surname Härkönen which inspired the faction name. A lot of sci-fi names in Dune are just words taken from european languages so don't be surprised why theres a "Dunkin' Donut" there too.
@@lazerhosen can confirm, it comes from "kvizatz haderech" which is a saying meaning "to shorten the road/way". Also the beni gesseret is Hebrew for "daughters of Caesar"
@@oxnut9491 "beni gesseret is Hebrew for "daughters of Caesar" - That's almost certainly incorrect. "Bene gesserit" is proper Latin. "Bene" is, as many people know, "well" or "good", and "gesserit" is a conjugated form of the verb "gesse" ("to do"/"to bear"). A Dune fan group moderator even claims to have Frank Herbert on tape confirming this; apparently FH meant "Bene Gesserit" to stand for "Let it be done well." The Hebrew phrase speculated to have been the basis for BG's name is actually "Bney Gishrit" - something like "Children/Sons of the Bridge". That's at least somewhat similar to "Beni Gesseret". But "daughters of Caesar" is an extremely implausible candidate phrase, considering that "daughters" in Hebrew is "banot", "Caesar" is "keisar", and thus "Daughters of Caesar" would be "Banotav Keisar" ("-av" being the 3rd person singular possessive suffix) or "Banot Shel Keisar".
@@mikhailvartikov1560 yeah beni means sons/children literally but given they are all women we'd just translate it to daughters even though banot is literal I speak Hebrew but don't know what gesseret means I was told it meant Caesar in Latin or something, we pronounce that word with a hard g even though it's a soft g which isn't in Hebrew
Honestly thought the entire 50 minutes would be Jay showing Colin the movie on his phone, both staring emotionlessly at the screen, and I was prepared for it.
Just one note that the guild navigators are featured in the new film, though only briefly, during the ceremony with the imperial herald. They've got normally shaped bodies and can walk with their limbs but are wearing suits with helmets filled with orange spice gas.
Those aren't fully developed guild navigators, they're like stage 1 or 2 I think (from the little descriptions we get in the books) the 3rd stage navigators are the ones in the tanks
Those aren’t navigators, maybe on the path, but not actually guild navigators. Why would 3 navigators be standing around for a message delivery? That makes no sense. Navigators are incredibly important. They’d never just have 3 accompany an imperial herald on the ground. The reply commenter makes sense. They could be in training to become a navigator. But those certainly weren’t navigators. I assumed those were the guildsmen. Just regular “employees” of the guild. They’re such a powerful force that they can afford to constantly be engulfed in the spice. I actually thought it was super cool. Guildsman being able to live in a gas mask of melange. Like if rich people today wore marijuana gas masks constantly pumped with thc smoke.
@@misanthropicservitorofmars2116They're specifically called out as representatives from the guild, so quite possibly they exist specifically to fill that emissary role
I'm genuine happy that Jay enjoyed "Dune" (2021). What with everyone not shutting up about it, I was almost expecting he'd be feeling apathetic at best.
The only thing i really hated about 2021 was the sound mixing and the awful hans zimmer score. I hate when you have scenes where characters are barely talking above a whisper, so i turn my tv up, and the next scene is shitty hans zimmer score blowing up my speakers and i have to hurry up and turn my tv down. I don't want to watch a movie with a remote in my hand the entire time because i constantly have to adjust the volume
@@bigbakaboon It's possible they might fix that for a future DVD or streaming release. I remember they tweaked Zimmer's score noticeably in Interstellar between cinema and home release.
Just for context, the first Dune novel is from 1965. Star Wars (1977). A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones books) from 1996. P.S. Jodorowsky's DUNE ended up becoming The Incal which is ,arguably, one of the best comicbooks ever created.
Putting on my Obnoxious Dork Hat: The throat singer was on Salusa Secundus and those guys were the Imperial Sardaukar, the Emperor's elite personal troops. They weren't Harkonnens. They were lent to the Harkonnens (and in the book fought wearing Harkonnen uniforms so no one would suspect they were there, but I can appreciate why they didn't do that in the movie). The Harkonnens needed them since their troops were chumps compared to the Atreides, whereas no one could fuck with the Sardaukar. Except the Fremen. Specifically the Fedaykin. Man once those guys show up it's gonna be some shit.
Honestly I really HOPE the white armor is their Harkonnen disguise. I liked the 1984 Dune's Weldingmask/hazmat suit look. Or at least the black with a square faceplate thing. Maybe because of the art from the RTS that based itself on the original movie.
@@DIEGhostfish I mean, we know what the Harkonnen forces look like, all black. Being in complete different uniform would be confusing. Plus whenever they were spotted, someone always shouted "Sardaukar!"
@@goldfishprime Well to be fair I was speaking specifically about when Jay called them Harkonnens. Neither of them read the books so they might not really get who the Sardaukar are.
@@stephenpaccone8120 Pffft, my Mom always said I can be whatever I want! Seriously though, ye'll have to be more specific about what I can't be serious about. Unless ye weren't talking to me?
Its fair to say Jay and Colin missed a lot of stuff like that, but you know it's not a big deal. When a movie is based on a series of novels this complex for it to explain practically nothing, except the short Hitchhiker's guide to the Galaxy scenes, anyone who doesn't read the books will take longer to pick up on the smaller details like that (the movie does tell you that, in fact it mentions the Emporer aiding the Harkonnen multiple times).
Give us more Collin from Canada... he's awesome. Also... give us more Mike and Rich talk about Star Trek... and more Best of the Worst and more... well, more of everything, basically. Keep up the good work!
It's clear that Lynch's movie still had a big impact, at least as far as how Dune is supposed to look, by the fact that every single video game of Dune--even those with a completely different plot or even different characters--still utilizes Lynch's art and imagery.
@@sharpeslass5452 Agreed. Maybe it's just me but I feel like part of a space opera is to give you something spectacular to look at. In that aspect the new version fell a bit flat.
Ah, the Dune games - now that's a nostalgia trip. Emperor: Battle for Dune has like, 'really enthusiastic fan film' energy in those FMV cutscenes. I hope those make a comeback someday.
Dune 2000 and Emperor were such good games. I also really enjoyed the PC version (I think there may have been a PS2 version as well) of "Frank Herbert's Dune" The Video game. Horrible, buggy mess of a game, but I was so into Dune that I trudged through it and beat it several times. I found it strange that they didn't bring up the mini series in this video. I get there's probably very few people that enjoyed it (I watch it at least once a year) but the soundtrack alone is worth a mention.
I saw an interview with a lady that worked on the practical special effects for the David Lynch Dune film and I remember her saying they had to go out of their way to make extreme effort to make sure the sand worms didn't look like giant turds
In the book Paul's gift of foresight is tempered by the fact that he can see all possibilities (a result of his mentat training and being the kwisatz hadderach). He is very much choosing the paths that result in the least damage but all paths (besides his own death) lead to the holy war which he didn't want to happen.
Aftter Jessica becomes a reverend mother, Paul sees that even if he died the Jihad would happen, because the fremen would still learn the weirding ways, and it would be even more salvage than if he was on top directing it, instead of just Jessica and Alia.
@@dominicmarazita6058 I actually think they've done a decent job of working Paul's prescient visions I to the story so far. I especially like how they show him seeing multiple versions of the future that surround Jamis. Of course, there is much deeper they can go with this area.
@@frankjohnson123 iirc by the time he realizes that his followers are gonna do genocide muad’dib fever has gotten so out of control that literally nothing he says or does can stop it
@@frankjohnson123 If he feigns incompetence, he would get betrayed and assassinated. It prevents the Jihad but it's one of the futures in which he dies violently.
IIRC, he sees the possibilities, but he doesn't know what to do to realize any of these possibilities. So all his superpowers basically amount to nothing much, except of everyone wanting some shit from him. Just like me, basically ;)
Extremely funny that Jay doesn't even think Duncan Idaho isnt important enough to include in a Dune adaptation considering.... The deal with him in later books
I don't know if Lynch was right for Dune specifically, but the concept of Lynch doing sci fi is interesting because the ideas he brought to the film were the most truly alien aspects of it. I thought the scene after they put on the stillsuits in the desert in the new film was a subtle nod to the Lynch film. The music is very similar to the Toto theme.
I heard tunes from the Toto ost a few times, sometimes the similarity is very subtle, maybe unintentional. There is the track "Visions of Chani" (orchestra), "Armada" (guitar, distant similarities), "Holy War" (orchestra, this is quite noticeable).
The weird thing about the intro to 1984 with Irulan 4th wall break explaining the setting, almost acts as a template for how the Dune and later Command & Conquer games execute their mission briefing cutscenes.
that isn't what breaking the 4th wall means... not all narration is 4th wall breaking. they are still within the universe of the movie and addressing 'the audience' as if they were people within that universe being informed, rather than the character leaving the world of the film behind and speaking to the real-world audience. the first one is not 4th wall breaking and the second one is. Deadpool breaks the 4th wall many times not because he looks into the camera, but because he speaks about the film to a film audience while admitting its a movie when he does it.
@@dizzlebizzle8424 It's not the narration that comes off as 4th wall breaking, it's how she looks at the camera, it's like she's looking and talking to you the viewer. Half way is she says "oh yes, I forgot to tell you." She's in a void, there's no indication in the scene that she's talking to anyone else but the viewer. It might not be 4th wall breaking in the satirical or comedy sense, but I think it's more or less a form of 4th wall break. I don't think a 4th wall break requires acknowledging that you are in a movie to be a 4th wall break. The C&C games though that I compared it to, I would say fall within what you're saying, because in those games it is stated that you're an in universe character that is being addressed.
Mike isn't getting out of reviewing the new Dune. Edit: The throat singing priest on Salusa Secundus was with the Sardaukar, who serve the Emperor. I would like to think Mike would have noticed that. And of course made a Star Trek reference about it.
Glad to say that I like both versions. The Lynch version, despite the HUGE liberties it took with the source material had an amazing visual style and frankly I'm a sucker for pretty much anything Lynch does anyway. But, the style of it, the soundtrack, the visuals, the eccentric acting - it really felt like another time and place. I don't care it's niche, or a cult film, or that it bombed. I love it. But, I really, really liked Denis's film too. Very different, closer in some ways to the book than Lynch, further away in other places. A very different animal, but pretty damn good all the same.
I have never seen the David Lynch version, but from the few random clips they show here it doesn't even seem that both are supposed be based on same story, it's some WEIRD shit haha
If you're interested in what a director's cut of Dune 1984 could look like I would reccomend watching the Spicediver cut, which adds deleted footage, reworks and reorders the scenes and fixes the ending somewhat.
The 3-hour Sandpiper fan-edit of the Lynch film in 4K that was done a couple of years ago, that re-edits the entire film and adds 40+ minutes of lost footage, is INFINITELY better than the theatrical version, with much more character development and flow, IMO.
My only complaint about the new Dune is that we barely meet Yueh before he plays his big plot point and also that the mentats were left in the dust. It's really important that Paul has mentat training. So I guess a scene of Paul getting a checkup with the family physician and a lesson with Thufir would have been cool on that front. And while the 'slow blade' was talking about in that training session, it pretty much went out the window afterwards when Momoa's going ham on the sadukar. But very small nitpicks. Just like Jay was saying, I actually wouldn't have minded if it was longer. And I loved how they portrayed "THE VOICE." That was great.
The shields were my biggest gripe after leaving the theater as well. Granted, I had not read the book before seeing the movie, but afterwards I've been listening to them in audio book format during family car rides. The further along we got, the less I liked the movie as an adaptation. The thing is, I tend to very easily fall asleep in cars, so I've slept through maybe a quarter of it, and going throught it again is probably in order.
@@TunkkisI just got to heretic of Dune a couple weeks ago. I love the new movie. I loved the new shields. Made it feel real. When watching combat. Sure some of the actors could have slowed their strikes to make it seem better, but it’s also a form of combat that almost no one alive could portray properly. No martial art on earth teaches to slowly stab. So while watching I can easily assume that whenever a red glow comes on the shield, that the person attacking went slow enough to get through.
It's weird how much of Thufir Hawat's role was left out relative to Duncan Idaho. Duncan's a pretty minor character in the first book, and Thufir is the guy masterminding the Atreides' strategy against the Harkonnens. Plus he trained Paul as a mentat (which we also don't see) which is part of the reason he ends up with prescience.
I just saw Dune 2 on an airplane where an obese lady kept adjusting and shaking the seat, and the young father next to me tried to corral his wandering toddler. I was hit in the face with a chair, and my balls were stepped on. I'd say this is the optimal way to view Dune 2, if possible.
THANK YOU for having Colin on who actually knows the Dune Universe to a great degree. As a Dune saga book fan, it was nice to hear his insights and explanations instead of just ragging on things.
@Senor Bigdong Yeah I've been catching a few reviews about the place recently and I'm shocked by the number of self-professed Dune fans who haven't read any of the novels after the first... or in some cases haven't read _any_ of the books.
i was a boy. they were 138 girls. can i make it any more obvious? thats right, i had a crazy dream last night. HAHAHAHAHA!!! im the funniest youtube star ever. youre welcome for laughing dear w
I agree, they talked a whole lot about, stuffs and things, but I have no idea what happened. To be fair, I did fall asleep about 2 hours in and missed the last 87 minutes.
The "Atreides" kinda makes up for it. And I must admit, I didn't notice anything special about the name Duncan Idaho before watching this. But it may be because I'm not American. I did however think that the name "Harkonnen" sounded quite Finnish XD
The book has so much inner dialogue that it's basically impossible to capture the essence of it on film. Most of it can be skipped (as this discussion gets at) but in some cases it provides critical context. For instance, Paul's fight with Jamis is played totally straight in the new movie, to the point where it's rather anticlimactic because Paul rather easily beats this supposedly great warrior in a matter of moments. (To say nothing of the fact that the movie doesn't really tell or show you much about Paul's superhuman physical Bene Gesserit training; we only know about "the voice.") In the book, Paul's narration reveals his insecurity at fighting in this style - since he is used to sparring with shields, which you have to penetrate with a slow attack, he can't find a rythym in his fight and becomes incredibly self conscious that it looks like he's basically toying with with Jamis. (And of course he doesn't actually want to kill this guy.) Other Fremen watching seem to think this too and cry out about how dishonorable Paul is being, seemingly taunting one of their tribe. He ultimately kills Jamis in part to preserve his standing among the Fremen; killing a man like this is traumatic for a kid, and Paul starts to cry (or as the Fremen call it "giving water to the dead"). Villeneuve does not convey this drama in this climactic scene.
he cries when they process jamis for his water, thatll probably be at the start of the next movie since theyre still carrying him at the end of this one.
Yeah they also completely gloss over Mentats, which are central to the premise of the universe. There are no thinking machines (outlawed under the Butlerian Jihad), and so people are conditioned to become smarter than any computer could ever be. Paul has mentat capabilities, and the idea of a mentat ruling a great house has huge implications.
I haven't read the book (i did when I was too young to remember so it doesn't count), but I did get the impression it would be dishonourable for Paul to not kill Jamis and that he was surprised he felt he could. The preoccupation with the visions before the fight kind of meted out the profundity for me, when he finally kills Jamis, it's ultimately like a twisted cosmic joke. I don't know, I thought it played well.
39:10 - you get it exactly 100% wrong 🙂- In the book it is Paul's mother who ultimately drives forward the Jihad. Paul realizes very early on the she is literally "his enemy" - he calls her that. She doesn't have the gift of foresight, but she has extensive Bene Gesserit training drummed into her and she is interested solely in her children's survival. She does it out of love and unknowingly because those are the only tools she has available to her, but Paul knows what it may lead to. She will play on religious aspects and the messianic legend in order to save them and secure their position, at many points Paul contemplates his own death but he is able to see that without him in the picture Jihad still happens because of his mother and it is even much more destructive. In the end Paul ends up sabotaging his own legend before it grows out of proportion in order to limit the damage, but it is only a partial success. It is Paul's second son who takes a bold step into the unknown and accepts the God-Emperor's status.
Hmm, this is a mischaracterisation of Paul. His principal arc is of cowardice and tragedy that he causes. He knows what he has to do but is unwilling therefore causing megadeath.
I got the vinyl soundtrack for David Lynch's Dune from a friend who found it in their shed, and I love how it's arranged. It's just all the things I love about the movie condensed into audio format.
2 internet nerd points. The lynch version does imply the navigators bend space themselves instead of just being precogs, which is a change from how it is in the books and the new one. And in the books the Fremen never reject Paul like Colin thinks they might. They follow him all the way into the jihad. Paul rejects Paul as a messiah but he is locked into a path by his own ability to see the future. The path where he is blinded and walks into the desert is the only way he can see clear of it. But the message not to trust a single guy is there.
The Fremen as a whole continue to revere Paul, but there are individual Fremen who turn their backs on him and take part in the conspiracy against him in Dune Messiah. Then in Children there are old school factions who resent the changes Paul has made, and even Stilgar contemplates killing Leto and Ghanima although he decides not to.
@@molluskweddin right, there are always dissidents but Colin is implying a mass rejection of Paul at some point that didn't really happen. Partly because Paul didn't go down a path where that would have a chance to happen. He took himself out of play.
The shields and sword fighting are one of the coolest concepts in Dune. The shields are highly effective against projectile weapons, discourage the use of laser weapons (as they cause a nuclear style explosion when they interact) and result in the need for highly skilled close-quarter hand-to-hand combat.
The problem with that explosions is that nobody can tell the difference between them and real nukes. Who ever uses the banned nukes will be wiped out by the landsrat and all the other houses. Using nukes means total annihilation and the end of your liniage.
So sending suicide squads of laser pistol equipped soldiers to intentionally blast Holtzmann shields is a war crime by every house and the imperial crown.
Like how the emperor couldn’t reveal he took part in the betrayal of house Atreides. It would mean every other house in the empire would turn against him. In the books, all the Sardukar are dressed as Harkonnen troops.
Those weird inner thought moments in the 1984 Dune are from the books. The books feature moments where a character will think in italics, and the movie script almost 1 for 1 uses them. Of note are the scene with the hunter-killer and pauls line about it being slippery
But part of adapting a book to a movie effectively is recognizing what would transition well to a movie and what wouldn't. The way they did the inner thoughts thing was just awwwwful.
Okay boys, time for a “Part Two”, if you will.
was looking for this comment
My loin aches for this 😅
Any picks on who will hate it?
I doubt they'll do anything big for part 2
It's literally going to be a 30 second segment on a catch up video with them saying, "it was pretty good"
Whoever edited this deserves a raise. They cropped the entire thing so that not one frame revealed Mike being passed out on the floor next to their feet.
Passed out? I thought they hog tied him behind the camera.
he was mumbling something about the pug being in Star Trek
You mean Baron Fartbag?
I'm pretty sure Mike edits all their videos
@@CraniumOnEmpty 🤣🤣🤣
I liked Stellan Skarsdgaard as Baron Harkonnen, but I think Rich Evans would have been perfect for the role.
I really liked his quiet and sinister take on the time
They'll get Rich Evans for the Disney Plus series.
I think the guy who plays Plinket would also be okay.
HE BROKE NEW GROUNDDDD!!!
People would have been barfing in their seats.
The worms "liquifying" the sand is an absolutely genius idea. Not only it is a real physical effect but it also makes sense for the worms to do it given that they have to "swim" through the sand.
cymatics 😎
The worms would have to expell lots of gas for it to become a fludized sand bed. Maybe the planets core is gas.
Frank Herbert was a geologist and I always remember opening up the book in my teens and reading the incredibly descriptive passages describing the landscape. Little touches like this are so genius
Vibrations could do it@@viscountalpha
@@viscountalpha more likely it's a frequency thing
Mike is being restrained because the sole presence of Patrick Stewart in the old Dune movie would''ve set off a 10 min tangent about the episodes of TNG it reminds him of, like Final Mission.
the water must flow
Probably why he wasn't allowed!
Arrakis, when the spice flowed
@@G7M9W Atreides, his eyes uncovered!
@@kalibos Muad'Dib, his eyes blue!
Mike would have loved this video. Rest in peace.
Can't believe his liver lasted this long RIP
We all saw this coming, Rich had to kill him before he became too powerful.
Nobody ever really dies.
No one’s ever really gone
Best in Pieces
This video would have been a masterpiece if it was just 50 minutes of Jay showing Dune to Colin through a phone.
David Lynch would love that.
Lmaoooooo
Get out of my head!
That's 100% what I was expecting. Thought it was gonna be another Transformers 5 situation.
Get real.
I love how in Dune universe, human technology has advanced so much that combat needed to regress to older ways of fighting.
It's very reflective of actual technological progress throughout history. Like, how armor goes in and out of "fashion" because of the advancement of weaponry that can pierce it.
It was very clever.
@@KHR0M3K0R4N I find it hard to believe to have a missile blocking shield that can't block a spear 😂😂
@@Rov-Nihil Shields have to allow the transfer of air otherwise people would suffocate inside of them
@@Rov-Nihil If you're talking about the movie: did you watch it? It works by slowing things down. If someone threw a spear, it would hit the shield and stop. The spear would only go through the shield if someone was holding it and applied a slow, consistent pressure. A normal missile would probably hit the shield and just immediately explode, but we're also shown that the Harkonnens have advanced weapons that are able to apply their own consistent pressure and propel themselves through the shields, like the darts or bombs.
If you're talking about real life: Flares. They work against missiles, don't work against spears
While we all really wanted mike to be here, let’s be honest. He’d talk for two hours about Captain Picard instead.
What’s happened to Mike?? :0
@@nilsbossiusklintenberg3623 first man in the 21st century to contract and die of polio
he ded
Rip mike
Yeah. Star Trek takes up too much space in his brain for this movie.
The personal shield is one of my favorite tech of the book. The shield was invented to protect soldiers from projectiles so tactics had to change to get past them. But shields attract worms on Dune so the Fremen never use them and have different fighting tactics. Which is one reason they are so hard for off worlders to beat.
I really liked the bad boxy CGI so much that I hate when it's like a field in the new one.
@@craigboyle9714 Absolutely! That Lynchian version is orders of magnitude more interesting. I read somewhere it took 6 months to draw those boxes on each frame. It's a brilliant piece of cinematic craftsmanship.
Why do the shields not just protect from all attacks. Haven't read the books since my teens. It seems like some weird neo-feudal chivalry or code of ethics that just seem to be adherred to.
@@Popm3lon They're the energy field equivalent of a non newtonian fluid, specifically a shear thickening fluid. The faster an object tries to move through the shield the tighter the shield pushes back against it. It's like when people run across vats of cornstarch mixed with water, called oobleck. It only works if they run across. If they walk they just sink right in.
@@AgentPothead Gotcha, cheers! I suppose a full permanent shield would also make simple tasks like picking up or holding objects difficult.
But wait. What the Bene Gesserit do is much worse than what Colin says. They didn't plant prophecies on planets so they would believe in the Kwisatz Haderach when he came. They planted prophecies so should a Bene Gesserit become stranded on a planet somewhere, she can use the locals' religion (that the Bene Gesserit seeded) to help herself find safety and get back home. Which is exactly what Jessica is planning to do because she has heard keywords from the Fremen since they landed on Dune that these religious escape routes were instilled. It's so cynical and blew my 16 year old mind when I first read it.
As I say, Dune is about (in part) the politics of religion and the religion of politics.
Importamt comment. Great point.
Sounds like a lot of effort for the event that you'd become stranded on some planet.
The second book is also about no matter how much you use religion to control society, you will lose control of that religion and it will eventually control you too.
@@Oreosforlunch Yes. Frank Herbert is none too kind toward religion in this series.
@@axonassault Which is ironic, because he has a better understanding of it compared to most sci-fi authors. Heinlain and Assimov were very anti-religious too but they didn't really know what they were talking about when they brought it up.
My personal favorite part about Dune is the bizarre names. No other piece of media would have a character named Feyd-Rautha Harkonen and Duncan Idaho in the same story and take itself seriously
Yeah, Dune was the first time I started paying attention to that kind of thing in sci-fi.
"I am Blangogar, Lord of the Eight Peaks and Leader of it's peoples. This is Dave."
The Dune Empire has over 10,000 planets...
But here on Earth we have exactly that situation.
We have people named Joe Montana and also Boutros Boutros-Ghali.
So, just because they don't live down the street from you.
TV Tropes -> Aerith and Bob
Shot of Sting standing in a doorway, all greased up and wearing nothing but a sparkly purple speedo: “I WILL KILL HIM!”
@Nicholas Cage
Well technically Harkonnen is not a Finnish surname, but derived from one, semantics, I know. Most Finnish surnames that end with -nen have a vowel before nen, like Virtanen and Lahtinen, and even then, most of them have a word related to nature before the end part, like the two examples given, with virta meaning stream and lahti meaning bay, but there are exceptions, like with Härkönen, from which Harkonnen was derived, if Wikipedia is to be believed. And even then, Härkönen is quite close to the Finnish word härkä, meaning ox. But yeah, semantics and practically Finnish
I wish Rich didn’t force Susan to remove dislikes at gunpoint.
Dislikes gave him AIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDDSSSS
@@dookie_12 OH MY GAWWWWWWWD
I wonder what took them so long for my country
I can't get the satisfaction of looking at the dislikes on their Black Widow review now. Why Susan why?!?!
I thought Jack replaced Susan as head of RUclips years ago
The navigators quite literally navigate. Holtzmann Drives make folding space possible and the process itself feels near instantaneous to anyone on board. But they're still physically travelling through the space between the two folded points. In the Dune universe, thinking machines are banned, so they don't have the computational power necessary to plot the courses themselves. That's where navigators come in. Because they're prescient, they can see many possible futures and pick the safest one.
Nerd.
which is also important to know because that is how paul beats the guild in the books because they focus so much on being safe that he knows they would not do anything risky in order to beat him
That never made sense to me, since if you're folding space rather than other forms of travelling faster than light, there wouldn't be anything between your origin and destination points, as they would be directly next to each other, and it would actually be instant.
Since you’ve popped the seal on didactic nerd stuff, what’s with all the lasers? I thought the whole reason Dune was all knives and sh!t was because the Holtzman shield had a catastrophic interaction with lasers. And here they’re just blasting away with ultra violet lasers.
@@michaelbukowski7396 yeah that was my only gripe with the Villeneuve movie. You're absolutely correct, lasguns and shields is like mixing nitroglycerin with antimatter
Colin and Jay's reviews are as close as this channel gets to professionalism.
I disagree, the Shatner video makes this one look like a high school project.
Jays botw editing approaches professional as well in my opinion
Comedy =/= unprofessional
Jim and Josh are really good together as well.
What's so unprofessional on talking about every episodes of a hit TV show Star Trek: Picard?
The 3 hour Spicediver fan edit of the David Lynch Dune that readds a ton of cut scenes is a legitimate masterpiece. I really wish that Lynch had final cut.
Is this something easily available or do I need to go to the high seas to find it?
@@babyBELUGAr it’s on RUclips in good quality. At least it was like a month ago when I last checked
@@jimb0e186 thanks dogg
It's actually sickening how many films that flopped would have been better versions of themselves if studios didn't waste money on reshoots to CUT critical scenes, instead of spending half that money on letting the fucking directors just make a good movie.
@@MrDrProfessorPurpleagree. Kingdom of Heaven was crucified by the cut. It’s more painful as apparently it was cut by Scott upon request by the studio.
"It was a nightmare and.....It was a nightmare." That pause says more than a thousand words. You can see Lynch stare into the abyss in utter horror for a few seconds over what he endured.
And that’s saying something… considering what might constitute a ‘nightmare’ in David Finche’s mind *shudder*.
@@JonathanMickelson layers
@@JonathanMickelson Actually Lynch's nightmares mainly revolve around inferior coffee and a crippling widespread cherry pie shortage. Phew.
@@PeterEvansPeteTakesPictures And not being able to embalm cat carcasses in tar pits.
A lot of the actual shooting was a big long alcoholic party in New Mexico. I bet he's thinking of having to write a million different Dune screenplays to get one he liked + watching his movie get butchered after he spent years on it 😢
There actually was a reference to Lynch's Dune in the new film. The crew that comes to clean out the Baron's quarters after he was poisoned are dressed in the same black hazmat suits that a lot of Lynch's Harkonnens wore. Someone probably already replied with this, if not then cool.
I think you're the first to mention it.
Really happy that the new film is prepared to acknowledge its flawed but memorable precursor.
It's gracious.
The Lynch Pin of references.
I feel like the appearance and behavior of the drone that attacks Paul in his quarters is highly influenced by the Lynch film, also.
Cool
The hazmat guys in the Villeneuve one aren't wearing the same hazmat suits that the Sardaukar were, though they do look similar. It may have been an intentional reference, but might have also just been a practical decision since that scene has those guys entering a room full of toxic gas.
Though, I do think there were some blatant references to Lynch's version, specifically the Baron being able to float. In the book, his antigravity device doesn't let him float, so much as simply walk around as a normal, non-obese person. Also I think the bullets that slow down before penetrating the shields in the Villeneuve version may have also been taken from the Lynch version since I don't recall that in the book, though I could be wrong about that.
Imagine all the TNG references Mike would have.
We were on the verge of greatness we were this close
Thank god he wasn’t around for this.
Funny thing is there was a Dune game from the early 2000's that actually had Worf from TNG playing the Atreides Duke. Also not Star Trek, but one by the same studio (Westwood) in the late 90's had Gimli from LotR as its Atreides officer.
I will be so freaking pissed if Season 2 of Picard does not include him charging into battle carrying a dog.
@@Henskelion Yep, that was Emperor Battle for Dune. Probably one of Westwood's most underrated games. I still have a physical copy of it!
Little bit of (non Star Trek) trivia: in both versions, the character of Stilgar, leader of the Fremen, is played by a James Bond villain: Everett McGill in the 1984 film (and crooked DEA agent Kilifer in 1989's License to Kill) and Javier Bardem in the 2021 one (who of course was the main villain, Raoul Silva, in 2012's Skyfall).
EDIT: actually, make it THREE versions! I just found out Steven Berkoff, who was Soviet general Orlov in 1983's Octopussy opposite Roger Moore's Bond, also played Stilgar in the Children of Dune TV series!
I live for this sort of trivia.
Nice trivia. Both happen to be amongst the best Bond films
dude
@@Reticuli sweet!
@@alexsilva28 I have only watched the Daniel Craig ones but I ought to agree. Skyfall is a banger
Colin gets all kind of credit for knowing that it's the ships that fold space, and that the Navigators use prescience to guide the ship safely through folded space, by avoiding the possible futures in which the ship is destroyed in transit.
But he loses points for not knowing that the navigators are not actually described in the original novel. Two guild ‘navigators’ are mentioned, but they are not mutated and it’s implied that they are not the type of navigator that actually guides ships. The description of the flippers, elongated heads, and v-shaped mouths are all in the sequels. It would be more faithful to the book if the new Dune never showed any mutated navigators in the second part.
The navigators are described in the second book, Dune Messiah. Edric the Guild Navigator is a fairly major character. So they'll have to figure it out before the Messiah movie. But you're right, Navigators don't appear in the novel. There are Guildsmen, but they're not at the point of living in a spice gas tank.
In addition to everything else people have said, the specific language of "folding space" wasn't used in the original novel. It's something David Lynch dreamed up for his adaptation.
@@newq This is true. I read the novel six times and the only time this "space fold" stuff is mentioned is in the 1984 movie and the Brian/Andersen books (which are suspect as to whether they are canon...I prefer the canon of the old Dune Encyclopedia, which also does not mention space folding). It is true that the Guild navigates FTL space travel by avoiding potential dangers in the path of the vessel through heightened sensory abilities that might be perceived as seeing future dangers across time.
Wish he mentioned why they cannot use nav computers like in Star Wars.
The Reason Princess Irulan fades in and out at the beginning of the film is when they developed the film they found out the negative had scratches on it in several parts of the sequence, but Madsen had already flown home so rather than call her back they fade out when the scratches were about to appear and back in when they've gone !
That can’t be true. Amazing.
@@SuperCleary Oh it's true, it's either mentioned in the making of book by Ed Naha or the Cinefex !
It’s quite convenient that the scratches occurred right before the phrase “oh, I almost forgot.” Like…. REAL convenient.
@@JonathanMickelson That’s coincidence for ya!!
@@andrewglazebrook1585 I have a local library that has the making of book. I'll have to go check it out and see if this is in there. I don't remember it, but I probably didn't read the whole thing.
It's worth mentioning that space travel IS possible without Spice (It would have to be for them to have found Arrakis in the first place). It's just prohibitively dangerous. Something like 1 in 10 attempts result in the destruction of the ship.
Not only that, but the navigation computers had to be very smart machines -- Something which was disallowed after the Butlerian Jihad, where the new Space Pope said AIs were bad after a long war with the machines. Hence Mentats and analog controls in the ornithopers.
"Never tell me the odds!"
Dune lore is so good
Before the properties of Spice was discovered, Humanity has spread among the stars using "conventional" methods of travel, meaning some sort of FTL-drive, which was a lot slower. Traveling between stars usually took weeks or even months, making Human-colonized space very hard, if not impossible, to govern.
@@chainedlupine Hmm sounds something like 40k
Lynch's Dune is definitely a guilty pleasure for me. I love the weirdness, the camp, the effects. And no matter how much Lynch hated the film, it made the world a better place by introducing him to Kyle MacLachlan.
I love the things in it that you can't unsee. Like the guy that trips and falls behind the navigator tank, the harkonnen soldiers wearing black Converses, and Patrick Stewart's obvious stunt double.
@@timtheskeptic1147 I know, kinda like how in new version all the soldiers were wearing modern day tactical military gloves.
Everybody overexplaining everything in inner monologue was too tiresome to me.
Not only that, they would go on and inner monologue the thing just told by the narration few seconds ago.
I heard show, don't tell.
I heard explicit delivery.
It was the first time I saw a "Explicitly tell and then Explain more"
I loved the Harkonnen scenes tho.
Edit: Semi-ironically, as the youth would call it
@@Desttro73 I'm glad that this stuck out to someone else who wasn't just me
My biggest complaint is that Josh Brolin didn’t charge into battle with a pug under one arm
thats in part 2
Long live duke letooooo!
There’s still time.
@@BullCityCocktails welp....
The Airplane bit cut in after the Lynch Inner monologues absolutely killed me 😆🤣
Okay, the pug is really pretty simple. Took me a long time too. It's just the Atreides's dog. Like the actual pet of the royal family. Gurney clings to it because it's the thing he managed to save.
i like that detail
shows a sympathetic lynch
Yeah we know why its in the film, but it's still a hilarious visual. Especially taken out of context.
Such a great addition in showing how Gurney loves the family.
@@jamessmith7205 Yes, emotion. Love. Meanwhile the family seemed to be replaced with androids in the new version.
Just made me realise why the new haconans are pale (milky smooth) and hairless. And the fact the mentats don't get much of a part.
The idea of Jay just holding the phone for Colin instead of Colin holding it himself is so fucking funny
Jay: Who even was Duncan Idaho, was he even in the books?
Me: Oh, you have no idea.
Hopefully they do Dune Messiah so we get mecha-Momoa
Hopefully they do God Emperor so we get to see women climaxing just from observing Momoa climbing a wall
@@eh.2671 Hopefully they do Chapterhouse because... porn...
It’s hilarious to me that if Denis adapted all of the Frank books, Jason Mamoa would be the only one in all but the last one. Isn’t it a younger Duncan Idaho in that one?
@@thebazhammer2610 Yeah and it's ghola clones out the wazoo throughout the series so in all seriousness they could be different castings in each movie and just be explained by the age differences of the clones
Or CGI Momoa for years to come, who knows.
"I don't know if David Lynch has ever read a book, period... Or seen a movie.... Or seen sculptures or paintings..."
Obviously tongue in cheek to a certain extent, but it also makes a lot of sense considering how incredibly unique his style is. Everything Lynch does is so unapologetically Lynch, and I love it.
Its funny to note that lynches original painting and short films prior to Eraserhead are noted for being Francis Bacon imitations.
@@jeffpalaganas7404 Oh, that IS funny! But out of all the famous artists I guess that would probably have to be the one to have inspired Lynch.
@@jeffpalaganas7404 to be honest, Bacon's Pope Innocent paintings are bangin'
Lost Highway was Lynch’s best movie and he should have used Bill Pullman a lot more.
Everett McGill had a role of all off a couple minutes in Straigh Storey where he farewelled Richard Farnsworth on his epic lawn mower journey. In that short time he displayed emotion and genuine concern rarely seen in actors. Goes back to akin to Tony Quinn’s Oscar for about the same amount of time on screen. Same could be said for Harry Dean Stanton’s couple minutes at the end of the same movie. Tears welled up in my eyes about 3 seconds after he opened his mouth.
Amazing short scenes that were those actors only scenes so they put everything into that scene.
Duncan Idaho's name works because for them, Earth is sort of a mythical land from pre-history. It'd be like one of our modern surnames like Beaumont that refers to a place that doesn't mean anything in particular to us anymore.
Great, so in their time there's people running about with last names like "Carlsbad", "Tampa", "Mud Butte", and "Tightwad"
@@Corbomite_Meatballs That's Duke Tightwad to you, sir!
My father in law's lukewarm review of the 1984 rests entirely on the fact that a guy 10,000 years into the future, a future of multiple varied human societies on various planets with deeply shifted social and religious cultures, is named Duncan Idaho.
Piter de Vries is basically a modern dutch name as well, though it would be spelled "Pieter". I always thought it was neat because you see historic words and phrases come back as well (eg. Landsraad, another dutch one) so why not names.
I thought Jay saying that didn't fit was strange, when the movie has a scene where a guy plays bagpipes in front of a spaceship.
I love how Josh Brolin trained Chalamet for war. He's so aggressive, almost frustrated to see how nonchalant Chalamet was during training. The way he said about the Harkonnens: "They're not humans, they're BRUTAL!". I really felt the desperation in his voice. Perfectly cast in my opinion.
Word. The movie does such a good job of creating a sense of impending dread. From the get go you just feel this doom coming for house atreides. I felt it so strongly
You really feel it, don't you? I'm not sure if you know, but Duke Leto rescued Brolin's character Gurney from a Harkonen slave pit, so he knows first-hand what they're like.
what being imprisoned on geidi prime does to a mf
I feel like Josh Brolin is good in everything. Every time I see him it's a treat.
@Nicholas Cage Book Gurney was too goofy for the setting and the atmosphere Villeneuve was going for. Toning him down was as good a change as Peter Jackson cutting Tom Bombadil.
I really wanted him to be holding the phone up to watch for the entire video
Screen's too big. Much better to have viewed it on an Apple watch. Plus, they could have cuddled.
I moved the mouse cursor over the screen to check to see how long the video was because I legitimately thought for a moment they might.
I hope for a Director's Cut version for this Dune review.
hahaha Like Andy Kaufman reading The Great Gatspy for 3 hours
I still haven't recovered from their Transformer reviews where they basically did just that for 25+ minutes, just went "nah" and then black screen.
I don’t know why, but the idea of David Lynch as a man who has never read a book or seen a movie, sculpture, or painting had me laughing for over a solid minute. If I told someone watching Eraserhead or Mullholland Drive that as if it were an established fact, I wonder if they’d question it.
Absolutely not. Mullholland Drive was the first Lynch movie I had seen and I guarantee this thought came up in my then 14 year old mind
It is worth mentioning that Lynch loved Dune (the book) and that's why he took the job.
@@Kikefriki That's a misunderstanding. David Lynch loves dune (the pile of sand). Which is why all his movies are as interesting as watching rocks move, and twice as slow
Actually, I saw him say in an interview that he loves Kafka
He just watches Rammstein videos and vintage snuff films, in fact of course
Lynch’s Garfield is something I never knew I wanted till now.
More cat milking 😅
He'd probably make Gorefield a reality.
Lynch needs to do the voice of Garfield, but they should never let him know that they're recording him. Just bug him and let him ramble for a few months about how much he hates cell phones and loves Laura Dern.
Don't look in Jon's basement......
Just watch Lasagna Cat
please come back for Dune part 2 with a video like this
49:33
I've got a bit of your explanation right here. In 2018, when I was a cab driver in Montreal, I met Villeneuve and we talked a little bit. I asked him how Blade Runner 2049 did overall and he said that box office wise, it didn't perform like the studio wanted BUT that its after-life in home releases (both physical and digital) largely surpassed their expectations and did actually pretty well.
Well, that's sort of a non-statment, isn't it? "Did better than expected on streaming" doesn't mean much when it flopped pretty hard in the box office, there weren't exactly high expectations. Of course we don't know the exact streaming deals it had but rough estimates tells us the film never even got close to break even....
As a conservative estimate it lost the studio at least 70 million USD. Most likely quite a bit more.
I’m assuming you were both smoking and wearing berets
Just like UHF!
@@bilbo1778 Correct, Montreal IS in France.
@@bilbo1778 As someone who worked directly with that film I can tell you what you said is pretty much nonsense. The film is indeed seen as a major flop by the studio and "Oh well, we made the director happy" and "We'll make it back through streaming rights the coming decade" isn't really how the industry works. At all.
You make it sound like you're stating facts but really you don't work in the industry, do you? Because you seem to make a lot of assumptions...
30:43 there is a nod to the Lynch one; the HAZMAT suits worn after Leto's tooth attack are homage to Lynch's Sardaukar battle suits
I loved that scene when the guys came in to clean up all the dead bodies from the tooth poison and they were like "oh shit" when they saw the baron on the ceiling
Also the Baron floating is entirely from Lynch (in the book the Baron has suspensors but they just make him weigh slightly less, he still walks everywhere and never flies) and the weird creepy latex fetish spider arm "thing" that the Bene Gesserit demands leave before she will speak with the Harkonnens in the new movie seems like a potential Lynch homage; the spider thing isn't in the book either or based on anything in any of the books and Villeneuve is both a huge fan of the novel Dune and a big fan of Lynch.
The "spider" seems like something the Ixians would make, hinting to their role in future movies.
@@CCKeNeNSC im sure you mean Tleilaxu and not Ixians.
@@Wavyhill I believe when the baron dies the book mentions that his body floats off the ground but that’s the only spot in the books where I can recall him floating.
The oppressive feeling people you’re talking about, with the weird throat chant, are not the Harkonnen, but another faction called Sardaukar. They are elite warriors of the emperor who later basically become guns for hire.
Iirc they're from some crap hole prison planet and supposed to be really ruthless, violent and scary. They're really competent, but not particularly good at asymmetrical desert warfare.
@@noahs150 people also underestimate the Fremen so the Sardaukar expect an easy fight and by the time they learn otherwise it’s too late.
@@noahs150 Salusa Secundus. Though they are elite warriors they don't have millennia of desert warfare experience like the Fremen, so it mirrors the Lawrence of Arabia arch of the locals rising up against their imperial overlords.
Sardaukar, "We are raised in the toughest, most ruthless, conditions; ensuring only the most fearsome fighters survive."
Fremen, "Hold my beer."
That opening sketch is amazing. Dude holding his phone straight out for the other guy to watch the entire Dune 2021. That made me so happy.
that dude and guy are hack and fraud, thank you very much
And the soundtrack chosen as the “movie’s sound” made all the more hilarious. Right as the sweeping choir chants start pumping in, the hard cut. Their comedic editing is the best.
Not to mention, doing this sketch when reviewing a Lynch movie, who is infamous for his "film on phone" speech.
@@ivosamuelgiosadominguez6649 it’s like poetry they rhyme
Can't help but feel like it's a poke at that David Lynch interview where he talks about how you "can't truly experience the magic of cinema on your fuckin' phone." lol
I genuinely thought that they would just never cover dune. But I’m so glad they did!!!!!
I kinda wanted them to just troll this in their videos for awhile lol
I thought Mike had a LOT to say about Dune?
I seriously thought they'd just have the two watch the whole film on a phone and never say a word about it.
@@WickedChild95 yeah was hoping for more trolling
I thought they would keep it as a running joke.
The shields in the 1984 Dune weren't CGI, but they were designed to resemble CGI. They were painstakingly hand-drawn with there being multiple film passes for each side of the shield. Lynch or someone wanted them to look very geometric, and it's unfortunately ironic that so much painstaking work went into creating such a cheap looking effect.
Somehow I always liked this effect, despite it looks!
Corridor Crew discuss and breakdown this effect
Ironically if they went the easier route and just made it a colored light effect around the actors silhouette (which would have still been hard but not nearly AS difficult) it would have looked better.
It didn't look cheap at the time
Did you comment before watching them discuss that?
Jay: "Is that character (Duncan Idaho) even in the book?"
*Duncan is the only character in ALL of the books. 😂
Duncans are the only characters, you mean.
Because Duncans are practically clones we can say "Somehow Duncan returned".
Well, in some way at least. Although wait was he in the second? I thought they didn't start getting copies till the third and fourth?
@@selekos practically? You mean actually.
@@DIEGhostfish the Duncan in Messiah was also a ghola, sent to kill Paul
"Duncan Idaho feels kinda out of place" Exactly Jay, as he is supposed to lol
why is he supposed to?
If they make the sequels, you will be seeing more of Idaho in clone form....
@@ianramsey101ghola*
In response to Jay's shield comments: I think the idea behind the slow-blade shield ""weakness"" is that it's a compromise between allowing the shield user to pick up stuff and interact with the environment without the shield constantly pushing everything away and causing you to slip and slide along the ground cause your shield is repulsing it, etc etc. I always thought it was a brilliant idea
That and you'll probably suffocate without at least a little air movement.
@@nemo-zl1vm Technically air moves really, REALLY fast. So there's something other than just speed involved in keeping air out (And you CAN dial it up to keep air out/in. Leto does it once.)
The idea was an excuse for why bladed weapons are used in order to have the Italian city-states ambience.
@@nemo-zl1vm in the book you can suffocate because air is moving to fast to get in. So you can't leave your shield on indefinitely
@@bigbakaboon Really? I don't remember that. The shields would have to let in air, or the user would suffocate almost immediately.
Colin is the funniest guest, I wish he were on more often. Mike would have been great too but there's a danger he'd have hijacked the discussion to peddle his Star Trek religion again.
Nice try, Colin.
blame canada
I love Star Trek!
Can't believe Mike wasn't in this, what a shame, biggest movie in years and Mike boycotts, sad.
I’d not say he’s the funniest, but his description of the David Carradine garden hose infomercial years before they watched it for BotW still kills me. He said Carradine’s dog was so embarrassed about the whole thing he just got up and walked away.
The spacing guild vacuum cleaner squad actually made sense to me, if spice is as valuable as everyone says it is then it actually makes sense to have a team follow you around hoovering up every last drop for later recovery/reuse. A bit like a pre-decriminalisation pothead looking for dicarded nuggs between the sofa cushions when there's a drought on.
Or people saving cigarette butts in case they need to resmoke them if they run out of money to buy a new carton
Also them leaving goop on emperor's floor is visual for "yeah, you are not in charge of us".
This is some golden age Star Wars EU grade explaining. Totally mean that as a sincere compliment.
The newest Dysons are great for making sure you get every last bit of spice keef.
The inner monologue of the Lynch version might be an homage to the fact that the book is written in such a way we’re a passage written from one character’s point of view will include the inner thoughts of others in the scene. Also adds to the “witches’” (I know they have a proper name but I’m not going to even try to spell it right) have such powerful comprehension skills that they can nearly read the minds of others.
Yep, and Dennis adapted it perfectly. In movies, clunky narration to account for inner monologue makes the movie experience worse. Sure the new harkonnen isn’t as fun as lynch version. But it makes more sense for a movie. Most of harkonnens character came from his inner monologue. He usually barely spoke in the books.
My favorite meme about dune was a Twitter post saying:
Every character in Dune:
He nodded, in the secret way that his secret order trained him to do, indicating a hidden danger. "How brilliant," I thought to myself, "to the untrained observer he would appear to simply be nodding but careful observation shows his true intent."
To be fair to David Lynch, the romance between Paul and Chani happens just as quickly in the book, and there is a time skip just as jarring to when Alia is born.
Something that the adaptations don't get across well in general is that Dune is more similar to an anthology of short stories that come together for a grandnarrative rather than a congruent set of books
Most don't even know that Dune is a entire series of books that span over a large period of time and not a novel. When people talk about Dunes influence it more so relates to the other books but most just say "Dune". Like books 2-4 heavily inspired Warhammer40k. The term God emperor or someone that rules galaxy spanning empires comes from dune.
The reason why Paul and Chani fall in love so fast is that during the Spice Orgy, Paul sees his future with her. The Fremen all have a little touch of prescience when they're hopped up on spice, so Chani sees her future with Paul, as well. They both know they'll end up in love, so they get started.
@@TNTspaz exactly. A good example is that the entire arc of Paul throughout the series is really integral to understanding and appreciating his character within each book. I see a lot of complaints about Paul being a sort of Mary Sue from people who only read or saw the first story, and its really unfortunate, because if you know his entire arc you can see how that isn't remotely true
@@RedHeadKevin that's true the book does give a reason for their love happening so fast. I actually kind of like that it happens quickly in the book, but it is hard to translate that to the screen.
The Baron has a ‘suspensor’ levitation device. A number of the characters have them. Momoa uses his to float briefly in his fight scenes if you watch closely.
In the books he only uses them to sleep so this is a reference to the Lynch version
Sardaukars make heavy use of the suspensors in the movie aswell
@@BlueisNotaWarmColour The books do mention that the Baron is so grotesquely fat that he's unable to walk without the levitators but, yeah, he doesn't use them to fly around.
@@discephaloid True, but the book doesn't mention he DOESN'T use them to fly around
@@discephaloid He raped Gaius Helen Mohiam, the Reverend Mother, so she crused him to be grotesquely fat.
Did not expect this to be a re:view but honestly it fits
@@justinstoll4955 wow crazy a whole month that must mean no one can talk about it
@@daftbanna7202 you can talk about it on re:view
I don't know... I kinda wish they waited for the Villeneuve Dune to be completed to contrast and compare with the Lynch one
@@tiagogarcia50 what in 5 years
@@daftbanna7202 it's supposed to come out in 2023
The comment near the end that Lynch's film "felt like a nightmare" is spot-on, and my biggest takeaway from this discussion (which is excellent). For all its many faults, the Lynch film has that dark, claustrophobic, weird, terrifying quality that probably can't ever be repeated now. A "problematic" film, to say the least, but a unique one.
Wes Anderson would probably come closest nowadays, despite being completely different tonally.
The production was a mess. Lynch is at his best when he's allowed to do his thing, and he wasn't allowed to be David Lynch on Dune. Unfortunately, he isn't good at not being David Lynch and he knew that. He pretty much disowned the movie.
@@13Psycho13 Hahahahahahahah
yes it kinda makes this film seem dull in comparison.
@@13Psycho13 That's actually so accurate. huh...
“It’s such a tragedy that you think you’ve seen a film on your FUCKING phone! GET REAL!” -David Lynch
Villeneuve's space travel is actually shown in a specific shot in the movie, by removing the "moving" part, which is a perfect reference to the "Traveling without moving" theme of Dune. So, in this shot - at 20:40 in the movie, when The Reverend Mother visits Caladan to test Paul - you can basically see through the space tube and you can clearly see one planet on the other side - basically implicating that the space tube is a shortcut between the worlds. It is a very interesting take on long-range space travel itself.
(Edited to add the specific shot in the movie)
When in the movie do you see this specific shot? I want to find it now. Good catch
@@JohnSS3303 - At 3:34 in the review.
Folding space like folding time. Or like a boom tube from DC comics
But, at the same time, the new film just says "Spice allows for space travel..." and as a someone not familiar with the universe I just went "Okay yeah." I didn't need to know *how* it made it possible, because we have analogs to spice in our world: Oil/fuel.
I don't really need to know if it just fuels the ship or if it's helping mutant psychics pick the best path.
wow, guess they went a little *too* subtle with that, since I haven't noticed it and I imagine most people didn't.
That scene of Paul riding the worm in the David Lynch version, with that soundtrack feels more like Flash Gordon. And I think I love it!
I was a young kid when I first saw Dune and despite all it's flaws, I considered it a great movie. It's all so weird yet still feels realistic in some way.
The way new movie says Harkonnen is closer to the finnish surname Härkönen which inspired the faction name. A lot of sci-fi names in Dune are just words taken from european languages so don't be surprised why theres a "Dunkin' Donut" there too.
Especially Islamic words and islamic-sounding made up words :)
@@willmungas8964 also "Kwisatz Haderach" is adapted from Hebrew I believe.
@@lazerhosen can confirm, it comes from "kvizatz haderech" which is a saying meaning "to shorten the road/way". Also the beni gesseret is Hebrew for "daughters of Caesar"
@@oxnut9491 "beni gesseret is Hebrew for "daughters of Caesar" - That's almost certainly incorrect. "Bene gesserit" is proper Latin. "Bene" is, as many people know, "well" or "good", and "gesserit" is a conjugated form of the verb "gesse" ("to do"/"to bear"). A Dune fan group moderator even claims to have Frank Herbert on tape confirming this; apparently FH meant "Bene Gesserit" to stand for "Let it be done well."
The Hebrew phrase speculated to have been the basis for BG's name is actually "Bney Gishrit" - something like "Children/Sons of the Bridge". That's at least somewhat similar to "Beni Gesseret". But "daughters of Caesar" is an extremely implausible candidate phrase, considering that "daughters" in Hebrew is "banot", "Caesar" is "keisar", and thus "Daughters of Caesar" would be "Banotav Keisar" ("-av" being the 3rd person singular possessive suffix) or "Banot Shel Keisar".
@@mikhailvartikov1560 yeah beni means sons/children literally but given they are all women we'd just translate it to daughters even though banot is literal I speak Hebrew but don't know what gesseret means I was told it meant Caesar in Latin or something, we pronounce that word with a hard g even though it's a soft g which isn't in Hebrew
Honestly thought the entire 50 minutes would be Jay showing Colin the movie on his phone, both staring emotionlessly at the screen, and I was prepared for it.
same lol
I gotta say, Eli Wallach's performance as the sand worm in "The Good, The Bad, Dune" is underrated, I'm glad you all mentioned it.
I know a lot of people are sensitive about the cultural appropriation, but some of my best friends are Sandworms and they liked it!
Just one note that the guild navigators are featured in the new film, though only briefly, during the ceremony with the imperial herald. They've got normally shaped bodies and can walk with their limbs but are wearing suits with helmets filled with orange spice gas.
Those aren't fully developed guild navigators, they're like stage 1 or 2 I think (from the little descriptions we get in the books) the 3rd stage navigators are the ones in the tanks
Those aren’t navigators, maybe on the path, but not actually guild navigators. Why would 3 navigators be standing around for a message delivery? That makes no sense. Navigators are incredibly important. They’d never just have 3 accompany an imperial herald on the ground.
The reply commenter makes sense. They could be in training to become a navigator. But those certainly weren’t navigators. I assumed those were the guildsmen. Just regular “employees” of the guild. They’re such a powerful force that they can afford to constantly be engulfed in the spice. I actually thought it was super cool. Guildsman being able to live in a gas mask of melange.
Like if rich people today wore marijuana gas masks constantly pumped with thc smoke.
@@misanthropicservitorofmars2116They're specifically called out as representatives from the guild, so quite possibly they exist specifically to fill that emissary role
@@douggibson2030 that’s what I assumed, just guild representatives.
The travel "cost 3 navigators" there are 5 of the fish bowl helmet people.
Not only are we getting both Dune movies in one Re:View, but ALSO getting Colin back in the hot seat!? You’re too kind to us RLM.
Honestly I was hoping for the other guy, you know the main one with the hair
@@mossbogger8366 Rich Evans?
Ruth Bader Ginsberg?
The reviews must flow.
I'm genuine happy that Jay enjoyed "Dune" (2021). What with everyone not shutting up about it, I was almost expecting he'd be feeling apathetic at best.
Don’t you mean Dillanueve’s Dune?
I expected he would. Afaik Jay has had a positive review for every Villeneuve movie.
The only thing i really hated about 2021 was the sound mixing and the awful hans zimmer score. I hate when you have scenes where characters are barely talking above a whisper, so i turn my tv up, and the next scene is shitty hans zimmer score blowing up my speakers and i have to hurry up and turn my tv down.
I don't want to watch a movie with a remote in my hand the entire time because i constantly have to adjust the volume
Yeah this channel's brand is being over it, so it's a nice breath of fresh air when they can muster an actual opinion.
@@bigbakaboon It's possible they might fix that for a future DVD or streaming release. I remember they tweaked Zimmer's score noticeably in Interstellar between cinema and home release.
Uncensored quote: “When two people love each other, he puts his Chalamet in her Zendaya.” -Colin
Just for context, the first Dune novel is from 1965. Star Wars (1977). A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones books) from 1996.
P.S. Jodorowsky's DUNE ended up becoming The Incal which is ,arguably, one of the best comicbooks ever created.
Putting on my Obnoxious Dork Hat: The throat singer was on Salusa Secundus and those guys were the Imperial Sardaukar, the Emperor's elite personal troops. They weren't Harkonnens. They were lent to the Harkonnens (and in the book fought wearing Harkonnen uniforms so no one would suspect they were there, but I can appreciate why they didn't do that in the movie). The Harkonnens needed them since their troops were chumps compared to the Atreides, whereas no one could fuck with the Sardaukar.
Except the Fremen. Specifically the Fedaykin. Man once those guys show up it's gonna be some shit.
Honestly I really HOPE the white armor is their Harkonnen disguise. I liked the 1984 Dune's Weldingmask/hazmat suit look. Or at least the black with a square faceplate thing. Maybe because of the art from the RTS that based itself on the original movie.
@@DIEGhostfish I mean, we know what the Harkonnen forces look like, all black. Being in complete different uniform would be confusing. Plus whenever they were spotted, someone always shouted "Sardaukar!"
@@goldfishprime Well to be fair I was speaking specifically about when Jay called them Harkonnens. Neither of them read the books so they might not really get who the Sardaukar are.
@@stephenpaccone8120 Pffft, my Mom always said I can be whatever I want!
Seriously though, ye'll have to be more specific about what I can't be serious about.
Unless ye weren't talking to me?
Its fair to say Jay and Colin missed a lot of stuff like that, but you know it's not a big deal. When a movie is based on a series of novels this complex for it to explain practically nothing, except the short Hitchhiker's guide to the Galaxy scenes, anyone who doesn't read the books will take longer to pick up on the smaller details like that (the movie does tell you that, in fact it mentions the Emporer aiding the Harkonnen multiple times).
Give us more Collin from Canada... he's awesome. Also... give us more Mike and Rich talk about Star Trek... and more Best of the Worst and more... well, more of everything, basically. Keep up the good work!
It's clear that Lynch's movie still had a big impact, at least as far as how Dune is supposed to look, by the fact that every single video game of Dune--even those with a completely different plot or even different characters--still utilizes Lynch's art and imagery.
@@sharpeslass5452 It's actually a favorite of my mother and me. When I was young, she would always compare me to Paul, and herself as Jessica lol.
@@sharpeslass5452 Agreed. Maybe it's just me but I feel like part of a space opera is to give you something spectacular to look at. In that aspect the new version fell a bit flat.
Ah, the Dune games - now that's a nostalgia trip. Emperor: Battle for Dune has like, 'really enthusiastic fan film' energy in those FMV cutscenes. I hope those make a comeback someday.
Dune 2000 and Emperor were such good games. I also really enjoyed the PC version (I think there may have been a PS2 version as well) of "Frank Herbert's Dune" The Video game. Horrible, buggy mess of a game, but I was so into Dune that I trudged through it and beat it several times. I found it strange that they didn't bring up the mini series in this video. I get there's probably very few people that enjoyed it (I watch it at least once a year) but the soundtrack alone is worth a mention.
@@sharpeslass5452 That's a long time.
I saw an interview with a lady that worked on the practical special effects for the David Lynch Dune film and I remember her saying they had to go out of their way to make extreme effort to make sure the sand worms didn't look like giant turds
Gutted 😂
I really respect that debatably obscure David Lynch reference to watching movies on a cell phone at the beginning
Haha
GET REAL
In the book Paul's gift of foresight is tempered by the fact that he can see all possibilities (a result of his mentat training and being the kwisatz hadderach). He is very much choosing the paths that result in the least damage but all paths (besides his own death) lead to the holy war which he didn't want to happen.
Aftter Jessica becomes a reverend mother, Paul sees that even if he died the Jihad would happen, because the fremen would still learn the weirding ways, and it would be even more salvage than if he was on top directing it, instead of just Jessica and Alia.
@@dominicmarazita6058 I actually think they've done a decent job of working Paul's prescient visions I to the story so far. I especially like how they show him seeing multiple versions of the future that surround Jamis. Of course, there is much deeper they can go with this area.
@@frankjohnson123 iirc by the time he realizes that his followers are gonna do genocide muad’dib fever has gotten so out of control that literally nothing he says or does can stop it
@@frankjohnson123 If he feigns incompetence, he would get betrayed and assassinated. It prevents the Jihad but it's one of the futures in which he dies violently.
IIRC, he sees the possibilities, but he doesn't know what to do to realize any of these possibilities. So all his superpowers basically amount to nothing much, except of everyone wanting some shit from him. Just like me, basically ;)
Lynch's DUNE has one of the most kickass scores ever made. As a teenage, I'd endlessly rewind my VHS to hear the guitar licks. Perfection
Yep, absolutely. Really loved all of D1984s music. I felt a little underwhelmed by Zimmers soundtrack.
I'm not keen on the riffs but the atmosphere. The ost for The Box is good. Mysterious and threatening.
Sadly the soundtrack version of "Big Battle (Riding the worm/Long live the fighters) doesn't have the same mix as the film version.
I have the Toto and Brian Eno score on my regular playlist... It's one of the best OSTs and the only thing the new movie can't outperform.
Ya, man. I’ve always said this, when other friends didn’t seem to agree with me. So good,, love the movie for it’s time. But the score is kick ass.
Extremely funny that Jay doesn't even think Duncan Idaho isnt important enough to include in a Dune adaptation considering.... The deal with him in later books
It is a shame because in Dune he really is done dirty, Lynch Dune was worse, at least Momoa got the moment with Sardaukar in the corridor.
His highest point in the saga is when he makes some lady orgasm just from watching him climb a wall. Frank Herbert definitely understands women.
He "lived" longer than any other character 🤣
what youre referring to is not cannon so it doesnt really count as spoilers. its fanfiction.
@@adamlouis3725It was written by Frank Herbert so yes, it’s canon
I don't know if Lynch was right for Dune specifically, but the concept of Lynch doing sci fi is interesting because the ideas he brought to the film were the most truly alien aspects of it. I thought the scene after they put on the stillsuits in the desert in the new film was a subtle nod to the Lynch film. The music is very similar to the Toto theme.
I heard tunes from the Toto ost a few times, sometimes the similarity is very subtle, maybe unintentional. There is the track "Visions of Chani" (orchestra), "Armada" (guitar, distant similarities), "Holy War" (orchestra, this is quite noticeable).
Lynch really got the opulant culture that a culture of feudal space aristocracy would live in.
I would love to see Lynch do a Destination: Void movie. It's another Frank Herbert book with a much smaller scale and a lot more weird shit going on.
He said it was his fault and he didnt belive in the project.
The weird thing about the intro to 1984 with Irulan 4th wall break explaining the setting, almost acts as a template for how the Dune and later Command & Conquer games execute their mission briefing cutscenes.
The dune 2000 videogames had really great cutscenes with the style of the Lynch movie.
I never would have made that connection. Good shit.
that isn't what breaking the 4th wall means... not all narration is 4th wall breaking. they are still within the universe of the movie and addressing 'the audience' as if they were people within that universe being informed, rather than the character leaving the world of the film behind and speaking to the real-world audience. the first one is not 4th wall breaking and the second one is. Deadpool breaks the 4th wall many times not because he looks into the camera, but because he speaks about the film to a film audience while admitting its a movie when he does it.
@@dizzlebizzle8424 It's not the narration that comes off as 4th wall breaking, it's how she looks at the camera, it's like she's looking and talking to you the viewer. Half way is she says "oh yes, I forgot to tell you." She's in a void, there's no indication in the scene that she's talking to anyone else but the viewer. It might not be 4th wall breaking in the satirical or comedy sense, but I think it's more or less a form of 4th wall break. I don't think a 4th wall break requires acknowledging that you are in a movie to be a 4th wall break.
The C&C games though that I compared it to, I would say fall within what you're saying, because in those games it is stated that you're an in universe character that is being addressed.
Yes, power shifts more quickly than some people think. I'm Kane
Mike isn't getting out of reviewing the new Dune.
Edit: The throat singing priest on Salusa Secundus was with the Sardaukar, who serve the Emperor. I would like to think Mike would have noticed that. And of course made a Star Trek reference about it.
Glad to say that I like both versions. The Lynch version, despite the HUGE liberties it took with the source material had an amazing visual style and frankly I'm a sucker for pretty much anything Lynch does anyway. But, the style of it, the soundtrack, the visuals, the eccentric acting - it really felt like another time and place. I don't care it's niche, or a cult film, or that it bombed. I love it.
But, I really, really liked Denis's film too. Very different, closer in some ways to the book than Lynch, further away in other places. A very different animal, but pretty damn good all the same.
I have never seen the David Lynch version, but from the few random clips they show here it doesn't even seem that both are supposed be based on same story, it's some WEIRD shit haha
If you're interested in what a director's cut of Dune 1984 could look like I would reccomend watching the Spicediver cut, which adds deleted footage, reworks and reorders the scenes and fixes the ending somewhat.
I highly recommend as well! Really only for hardcore Fine fans though. I think it's like 4 hours.
@@torq21 Yeah it's definitely massive
Where can we watch it?
@@ezekel.4656 youtube
Definitely the best cut.!!
The 3-hour Sandpiper fan-edit of the Lynch film in 4K that was done a couple of years ago, that re-edits the entire film and adds 40+ minutes of lost footage, is INFINITELY better than the theatrical version, with much more character development and flow, IMO.
Link?
I think you mean Spice Diver Edit. And its amazing.
Is this like the old tv edit with the painting Montage beginning? With commercials it was about 4hrs in length
Sandpiper? Someone's been watching "Better Call Saul".
If you listen to Toto's song "I Won't Hold You Back", you'll hear a guitar riff they used again for their score in "Dune"
My only complaint about the new Dune is that we barely meet Yueh before he plays his big plot point and also that the mentats were left in the dust. It's really important that Paul has mentat training. So I guess a scene of Paul getting a checkup with the family physician and a lesson with Thufir would have been cool on that front. And while the 'slow blade' was talking about in that training session, it pretty much went out the window afterwards when Momoa's going ham on the sadukar. But very small nitpicks. Just like Jay was saying, I actually wouldn't have minded if it was longer. And I loved how they portrayed "THE VOICE." That was great.
The shields were my biggest gripe after leaving the theater as well. Granted, I had not read the book before seeing the movie, but afterwards I've been listening to them in audio book format during family car rides. The further along we got, the less I liked the movie as an adaptation.
The thing is, I tend to very easily fall asleep in cars, so I've slept through maybe a quarter of it, and going throught it again is probably in order.
@@TunkkisI just got to heretic of Dune a couple weeks ago. I love the new movie. I loved the new shields. Made it feel real. When watching combat. Sure some of the actors could have slowed their strikes to make it seem better, but it’s also a form of combat that almost no one alive could portray properly. No martial art on earth teaches to slowly stab. So while watching I can easily assume that whenever a red glow comes on the shield, that the person attacking went slow enough to get through.
True, boy calculators were left in the dust :’(
It's weird how much of Thufir Hawat's role was left out relative to Duncan Idaho. Duncan's a pretty minor character in the first book, and Thufir is the guy masterminding the Atreides' strategy against the Harkonnens. Plus he trained Paul as a mentat (which we also don't see) which is part of the reason he ends up with prescience.
@@SonofSethoitaeyeah exactly
“If you’re not a Garfield fan at 10 you have no heart. If you’re a Garfield fan at 20 you have no brain.” - Winston Churchill
Since the cartoon cat was created in thee late 70s, I assume Churchill meant _James_ Garfield, right?
@@RFC-3514 No, he's talking about the cartoon cat, but it was John Adams who said it, not Churchill.
@@RFC-3514 bots have no sense of humor.
@@ikenosis8160 - Wait, John Adams was a bot??
Don't google "Winston Churchill Indian Famine Quote"
Worst mistake of my life
The most impressive thing it's that Jay remembered the name of Kate McKinnon's character from Ghostbusters 2016 😐
I am steel waiting for Mike to drop his 4 hours analysis of DUNE, since he had so much to say about DUNE. He could even make some remarks about DUNE.
What the fuck is dune?
I just saw Dune 2 on an airplane where an obese lady kept adjusting and shaking the seat, and the young father next to me tried to corral his wandering toddler. I was hit in the face with a chair, and my balls were stepped on. I'd say this is the optimal way to view Dune 2, if possible.
THANK YOU for having Colin on who actually knows the Dune Universe to a great degree. As a Dune saga book fan, it was nice to hear his insights and explanations instead of just ragging on things.
I feel that the best reviews are gonna be where you have one person who is a book nerd and one who is a normie.
To a great degree? He says that he’s only read the first book
@Senor Bigdong Yeah I've been catching a few reviews about the place recently and I'm shocked by the number of self-professed Dune fans who haven't read any of the novels after the first... or in some cases haven't read _any_ of the books.
@@vegancam it’s certainly possible to be a fan of a book you haven’t read and only heard people talk about
@Senor Bigdong Absolutely. Just been surprised by the number of them who have appeared on "big" youtube channels weighing in as supposed experts.
In the documentary, Jodorowsky said he didn't read Dune. A friend read it, told him about it, and that made him want to direct it.
Well he's mad. Which makes really interesting movies from him
If he made it it would have been better than star wars and earlier also
Seeing this review just makes me want a “Face/Off” reboot starring Colin and Jay that much more.
i was a boy. they were 138 girls. can i make it any more obvious? thats right, i had a crazy dream last night. HAHAHAHAHA!!! im the funniest youtube star ever. youre welcome for laughing dear w
“We won’t get into the plot because everyone knows the plot.”
I’ve seen the film and I don’t know the plot.
I agree, they talked a whole lot about, stuffs and things, but I have no idea what happened. To be fair, I did fall asleep about 2 hours in and missed the last 87 minutes.
Loved this episode. Mike had sooo much to talk about Dune! Amazing insight into his thoughts about the classic and the new one.
Wholesome and refreshing
The joke about watching the new dune on a phone when the director insisted it be watched in theatres was not lost on me
also see Lynch’s rant about “ffffucking telephones”
Multiple layers to this one lads
It's almost like poetry, it rhymes
I’ll watch it on a fuckin flip phone I don’t giva fuck
"the name Duncan Idaho sounds so out of place in this alien universe"
the main character's name is Paul,
His mom is named Jessica. Lol.
The "Atreides" kinda makes up for it. And I must admit, I didn't notice anything special about the name Duncan Idaho before watching this. But it may be because I'm not American.
I did however think that the name "Harkonnen" sounded quite Finnish XD
The book has so much inner dialogue that it's basically impossible to capture the essence of it on film. Most of it can be skipped (as this discussion gets at) but in some cases it provides critical context. For instance, Paul's fight with Jamis is played totally straight in the new movie, to the point where it's rather anticlimactic because Paul rather easily beats this supposedly great warrior in a matter of moments. (To say nothing of the fact that the movie doesn't really tell or show you much about Paul's superhuman physical Bene Gesserit training; we only know about "the voice.")
In the book, Paul's narration reveals his insecurity at fighting in this style - since he is used to sparring with shields, which you have to penetrate with a slow attack, he can't find a rythym in his fight and becomes incredibly self conscious that it looks like he's basically toying with with Jamis. (And of course he doesn't actually want to kill this guy.) Other Fremen watching seem to think this too and cry out about how dishonorable Paul is being, seemingly taunting one of their tribe. He ultimately kills Jamis in part to preserve his standing among the Fremen; killing a man like this is traumatic for a kid, and Paul starts to cry (or as the Fremen call it "giving water to the dead"). Villeneuve does not convey this drama in this climactic scene.
he cries when they process jamis for his water, thatll probably be at the start of the next movie since theyre still carrying him at the end of this one.
i mean sure id love to see the 5 hour cut of dune part 1 too
"giving water to the dead" wow that's so profound, you've convinced me to start reading the book
Yeah they also completely gloss over Mentats, which are central to the premise of the universe. There are no thinking machines (outlawed under the Butlerian Jihad), and so people are conditioned to become smarter than any computer could ever be. Paul has mentat capabilities, and the idea of a mentat ruling a great house has huge implications.
I haven't read the book (i did when I was too young to remember so it doesn't count), but I did get the impression it would be dishonourable for Paul to not kill Jamis and that he was surprised he felt he could. The preoccupation with the visions before the fight kind of meted out the profundity for me, when he finally kills Jamis, it's ultimately like a twisted cosmic joke. I don't know, I thought it played well.
Finally, now I can know if I like Dune or not!
39:10 - you get it exactly 100% wrong 🙂- In the book it is Paul's mother who ultimately drives forward the Jihad.
Paul realizes very early on the she is literally "his enemy" - he calls her that. She doesn't have the gift of foresight, but she has extensive Bene Gesserit training drummed into her and she is interested solely in her children's survival. She does it out of love and unknowingly because those are the only tools she has available to her, but Paul knows what it may lead to. She will play on religious aspects and the messianic legend in order to save them and secure their position, at many points Paul contemplates his own death but he is able to see that without him in the picture Jihad still happens because of his mother and it is even much more destructive.
In the end Paul ends up sabotaging his own legend before it grows out of proportion in order to limit the damage, but it is only a partial success. It is Paul's second son who takes a bold step into the unknown and accepts the God-Emperor's status.
Hmm, this is a mischaracterisation of Paul. His principal arc is of cowardice and tragedy that he causes.
He knows what he has to do but is unwilling therefore causing megadeath.
@@Creabsley
A bit like Hamlet.
I got the vinyl soundtrack for David Lynch's Dune from a friend who found it in their shed, and I love how it's arranged. It's just all the things I love about the movie condensed into audio format.
I kinda wanted the Denis version to put in Toto's prophecy theme song as a big homage to the 1984 version.
Finally! I can have an opinion about both Dunes!
Both? There’s three adaptations though. The miniseries is much better than these adaptations.
@@-.-.11 Amen. Despite its shortcomings like the production values, the SciFi miniseries is overall the better adaptation out of the three.
Joseph Williams, lead singer of toto amd son of little-known, art house composer John Williams, scored it! I wonder how much input John had in it.
Is he the verse guy in 'Africa' or the chorus guy in 'Africa'?
That's some pretty sweet trivia
@@kostajovanovic3711 He joined in 86, 4 years after Toto IV and two years after Dune.
He joined in 86, 4 years after Toto IV and two years after Dune.
2 internet nerd points. The lynch version does imply the navigators bend space themselves instead of just being precogs, which is a change from how it is in the books and the new one. And in the books the Fremen never reject Paul like Colin thinks they might. They follow him all the way into the jihad. Paul rejects Paul as a messiah but he is locked into a path by his own ability to see the future. The path where he is blinded and walks into the desert is the only way he can see clear of it. But the message not to trust a single guy is there.
The Fremen as a whole continue to revere Paul, but there are individual Fremen who turn their backs on him and take part in the conspiracy against him in Dune Messiah. Then in Children there are old school factions who resent the changes Paul has made, and even Stilgar contemplates killing Leto and Ghanima although he decides not to.
@@molluskweddin right, there are always dissidents but Colin is implying a mass rejection of Paul at some point that didn't really happen. Partly because Paul didn't go down a path where that would have a chance to happen. He took himself out of play.
The shields and sword fighting are one of the coolest concepts in Dune.
The shields are highly effective against projectile weapons, discourage the use of laser weapons (as they cause a nuclear style explosion when they interact) and result in the need for highly skilled close-quarter hand-to-hand combat.
The problem with that explosions is that nobody can tell the difference between them and real nukes.
Who ever uses the banned nukes will be wiped out by the landsrat and all the other houses.
Using nukes means total annihilation and the end of your liniage.
Makes laser weapons basically illegal since thermo-nuclear weaponry is outright banned by the laandsradt
So sending suicide squads of laser pistol equipped soldiers to intentionally blast Holtzmann shields is a war crime by every house and the imperial crown.
Like how the emperor couldn’t reveal he took part in the betrayal of house Atreides. It would mean every other house in the empire would turn against him. In the books, all the Sardukar are dressed as Harkonnen troops.
Those weird inner thought moments in the 1984 Dune are from the books. The books feature moments where a character will think in italics, and the movie script almost 1 for 1 uses them. Of note are the scene with the hunter-killer and pauls line about it being slippery
Well, this makes a bit more sense. I always thought / wondered if they were using telepathy
But part of adapting a book to a movie effectively is recognizing what would transition well to a movie and what wouldn't. The way they did the inner thoughts thing was just awwwwful.
Well, lots of books have the internal thoughts of characters, but it is exceedingly rare for a movie adaptation to put it in as monologue.
The I monologues are important because they differ from the characters actions