21 Theses on Submission in Marriage | Doug Wilson
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- Women have a deep creational need to be loved and led, so that they might submit and follow, and men have a deep creational need to be respected and followed, and when these needs are thwarted or otherwise frustrated, the end result is deep unhappiness for both sexes.
21 Theses on Submission in Marriage: dougwils.com/b...
Doug Wilson's Blog & Mablog video is presented by Canon Press.
Pastor Wilson states, "The Scriptural teaching on this is perspicuous and plain." While true that may be, I never heard this teaching in fifty years of church attendance. I also certainly didn't hear it in the dysfunctional family I grew up in.
Same here. Not ‘rarely,’ literally never- in 40 years.
Unmatched perspicacity
What he actually said in the video is that scripture is perfectly clear, which is true (i.e. Ephesians 5). He never said church teaching was clear. See his 2nd point.
@@michaellautermilch9185 No, but it's supposed to be.
"For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air." (1st Corinthians 14:8-9)
One of the most important points was one close to the end, which said:
"When Christian women are walking the path of submission, they are fighting against sin, not against their nature".
This debunks several books written on the topic, and confronts the mindset many people have today in the church.
The simple proof of this principle is how many women you can see online who are not Christian, don't have the Spirit to guide them, but live and uphold female submission with even more intensity and clarity than many Christian women do.
what women do you see online are upholding female submission?
@@greenghost6416
1. Rebecca Barrett
2. Melanie King
3. Kendra Davis (Crimson Cure)
4. Maggie, The Substitute Teacher
So, we are currently at 43 theses total. I'm calling it now, a total of 95 theses on the inner workings of Mere Christendom, another banger Doug, keep up the good work.
Well done, I didn't notice that
Sometime in the last twenty years, there was a rebellious woman at the mosque in my town. She taped 99 theses to the door of the mosque with some press coverage of the event. (The number was bumped up from 95 to 99 to match the 99 names of "Allah.") Nobody, and I mean nobody that I knew caught the significance of that. (To be fair, my town has next to no Lutherans--but still.)
Refreshing.
Rarely do we hear this message from today’s soft preachers.
I so very much appreciate the wisdom that comes from the maturity of previous generations.
Thanks Doug. We value your voice and courage to plainly proclaim the scriptures.
Structure, order, consistency, logical, reasoning
I admit unwillingly that you are right.
What’s sad is that Doug’s teaching on this is radical in today’s church.
As usual he keeps it scriptural breath of fresh air
SOLID GOLD!!! Preach, Pastor Wilson!!!
I needed to hear number seven. Thank you very much for your wisdom, it is always appreciated! Currently reading "Mere Christendom" and am LOVING it! Soli Deo Gloria!
But the age old ( last hundred years ) question is what are we to do with unsubmissive wives?
You may want another answer but he answered that. Love them, lead by example and pray.
@Grant Armbruster it really is age old though. It’s just that our culture is super saturated with them currently. Wives often have the corresponding question of what to do when their husbands won’t love and lead. The answer is basically the same. You can’t force a change of heart; you are primarily responsible for your own obedience so focus on that first. And pray for them. There is a time for going to the elders, but I don’t pretend to know just how to determine when that is.
Now the man does bear responsibility for his wife in a special way, and it is certainly appropriate for him to teach his wife the biblical doctrine of submission if she will listen. Whereas a wife’s hope is to see her husband won without a word.
You choose your wife. Did you choose poorly? You can demand submissiveness but I assure you it will not end well.
Pray and love.
Lead by example
@@00teatime I'm pretty sure on the Army my superiors demanded pretty sure my wife demands obedience from our children
Amen and amen!!
PREACH Preacher!!
Thank you from Breaux Bridge, Louisiana!
I gotta join this church !
This is gold!
Hey, leave Bruno out of this. KIDDING! Solid teaching.
WOW THANK YOU
AMEN!
EXCELLENT!!!
Okay please do a video on what to do with a willful wife. Won't go to church. Ect ect
Won't cook. Won't clean. Won't work. Won't go to the Dr. Won't go to councilor. Won't fulfill marriage obligations. Won't teach children. What non sinful commands are husbands allowed to make? What is the church's obligations to help the husband? What repercussions is the church willing to bring if disobedience is sin? What is the husband allowed to do to chasten his wife? Is divorce the only option? Can't with hold the family money state rules it a shared asset. Can take her phone get arrested for abuse? So what is the tools for the husband?
Learn Pete Rambo instead of Doug
@@georgelopez3146 I'll check him out.
The husband can correct his wife, and discipline her if needed.
Did I miss something, is it November already?
😂
😂
Are transcripts available?
Of this video? This whole channel is Doug reading his blog posts. The description has the link to the original article.
My husband heard this as “I go to work Monday through Friday. That means I can sit on the couch after I get home while my wife serves me dinner, after she’s worked all day (not her choice but it provides more money), and before she does the dishes, the laundry, the groceries, pays the bills, and keeps the kids out of my way.” Any recommendations on videos that would speak to this level? Forget books, it needs to be entertaining or he will just get on his phone for his enjoyment.
No, this is not a joke, a troll, or a spoof. Totally serious.
Sounds like if that’s what he wants you to do, and that’s how he wants his household ran, it sounds like you need to lose that day job.
if "not her choice" means she's being forced into the job, too, depending what it is, that seems like get-people-involved territory. Counseling, even intervention in the pattern of 1-on-1 > bring-a-friend > involved a group of family / church, depending on the sphere > if crime, tell government, if not crime, flee.
You forgot that the woman should be giving the man all the sex he wants, when he wants it, how he wants, as long as he wants it. And when he has had enough, her job is done. Her needs, sexual or any other need, are not relevant. All this without complaint or comment. After all, the man answers to God. Nothing else matters.
@@manager0175 Back to slavery then.
This calls for fervent, humble, constant prayer for yourself, your children, and him. I don't think such a man would appreciate any instruction you would recommend, regardless of the medium. He needs other godly men in his life. I will pray for that.
I have seen too many beautiful, mutually respectful, decision sharing partnerships to ever fall for this bullshit. You all need to actually start looking around you and outside your bubbles, asking yourselves some hard questions instead of looking for things to confirm the way you want them to be. Anyone who speaks in absolutes shouldn't be implicitly followed. That's a giant red flag for a cult.
Doug you mispronounced Chutzbah
...is it November already? 🔥😉
November 2022 is still going strong, 6 months so far and no sign of ending.
@@brentives4688 Here, here!
Of course men are entirely capable of compelling obedience from their wives. As christ loves the church in rev 3:19, "Those I love, I rebuke and chasten."
Definition of chastened would get people locked up. If I chastened my wife like I she does our children.
"Entirely" is a stretch. Prayer, reeducation, and mentoring are needed for many women to reject feminism.
@@LucianaPelota many of the christian women that think of themselves as conservative need decades of cultural feminist overcome.
@@grantarmbruster6591
With man it is impossible, but with God...
Millions of husbands chasten their wives successfully when they are not being obedient or doing their jobs.
Yea, I don't believe you'll find anywhere in the book of Esther where she has any express authority over any man. Like Vashti, she would have overseen the female servants. Lydia, also did not have any express authority over any man. As a Grandmother, she took it upon herself to teach her grandchild. Regardless of Timothy's age, that's still her grandchild and that authority has to do with respect of age in a family more than it has to do with any express female authority. Deborah was a judge that was brought up by God in a time of Isreal's rebellion. She sat under a palm tree in presumably the wilderness where people went TO HER to receive God's Judgments; being a prophetess. I do not see anywhere in Scripture where Deborah had any express authority over the peoples any more or equal to any authority that Samson had over the peoples, also being a Judge himself. Also, since these Judges were appointed by God himself and not those who sat in the seat of Moses, a valid assertion can be made to state that the kind of political system of Judges appointed by the seat of Moses is not the same system that Gideon, Deborah, and Samson were a part of. Paul and peter clearly state that a woman is not to have authority over a man. That's the Scriptural basis for "universal submission". This is not a submission to the sinful delights of men, but it is a general respect for the nobility of the male in general, regardless of his flaws. Why? Because of creation order.
''Creation order''? As if man is not borne of woman.
"The domination of men over women is inescapable." I am really glad we have grown up as a culture and put this pre-world-war-one silliness behind us.
We haven't. The obligations of men as protector and provider have not disappeared one bit--they are in fact either outsourced to the state across all men, or enforced by the state on the particular man who tries to eschew them, even when he has zero responsibility for the situation that he is in, because he has the "privilege" of bearing the consequence of a woman's/women's choices on her/their behalf.
@@dotwarner17 There are plenty of single women who have no ''protectors or providers'' and who work and pay taxes.
@@TGP109 And? What's the usual feminist response to "not all men are like that"?
@@TGP109 When the objection to broad-stroke criticism of men go in that direction.
Yep, but…
And no mention of Paul's teaching that the husband shall submit to the wife
Cause it's not there in text.
Here's the fallacy Mr. Wilson - There never was a healthy society in the history. It is said "love your wives like Jesus loved the church". The problem with that theory is that Jesus was perfect man without sin, how do you have a sinning man/ husband do as Jesus did? Its lesson if futility ( if a patient was decapitated it would be futile to attempt to save their life by compressing their chest - same as a husband with virtue. Consciously, or unconsciously will abuse their authority at some point.
And that’s why as a follower of Christ we repent and try again, by Gods grace. “bear fruit by keeping with repentance” “a righteous man falls seven times, and seven times he gets back up again”. like Doug said in the video, a math student who fails their exam doesn’t vindicate the idea to give up entirely, especially because there are cases where the student studies well and passes. Just because husbands fail to lead and lay down their lives for their wives like Christ did perfectly does not mean we are exempt to strive for the standard presented by holy scripture, especially when we’re given Gods grace to do so.
@@noirreflex3618 A man must also know he's limitation , if he takes a test a dozen times and can't pass he should maybe redirect his choices in life, to preserver would be sunk cost fallacy ( whereby a person is reluctant to abandon a strategy or course of action because they have invested heavily in it, even when it is clear that abandonment would be more beneficial.)
One thing about marriage it's pretty much a trial by fire , and do believe not everyone suited.
That pronunciation of “chutzpah”. 😂
Tell this guy "BEEN THERE. DONE THAT. NO THANK YOU!' and send him back to his pre-world-war-one bunker.
Bruno taking his shower at YWCA. 😂
Ahhh yes, women should have "Cheefull submission". "Keep your place and enjoy it" mentality. And obviously he is implying that if women do not enjoy submitting, its their fault.
Like a cheerful Soldier or cheerful husband at dutifully going off to work yeah
I’ve had many women submit to me and I never had to marry any of them
Sadly, yes. I was an unbeliever for many years, and I can say the same. However, headship and submission is integral to marriage, and to have that intimate relationship outside of marriage is sinful and destructive. Unless you are just talking about submission in the workforce.
@@holinessofthebride1935 well guess I’ll just burn in hell for infinity for a finite transgression
@@ShoestringRacer All sin leads to hell. God is infinite, so sin against Him has infinite consequences too. Besides, you don't decide what the right punishment is, only God does.
You need to repent of your pride, your sin, and your reliance on your own corrupt heart, and turn to God. The only way to peace is through Jesus Christ.
One day you will die, and your body will rot in the grave, and you will face your Creator. You know very well in your heart that is true.
@@holinessofthebride1935 you sound very confident, as confident as followers of other gods and religions both present day and the distant past.
@@holinessofthebride1935 every minute over two hundred people on earth die. God I’m sure sends a good percentage of them to hell. By the time you finish this sentence more people will start screaming in pain and agony for eternity 🔥
God is love ❤️
Of course, he is trying to teach "submit unless your husband is...." Of course, the list he gives in no where in scripture. The limitations he asserts are no where in scripture. He is trying to attenuate the scriptures so he doesn't alienate too many women (or men for that matter). After all he is selling books. He needs an audience and customers.
There it is again. Submit. And of course, he will guide you to the proper understanding of "submission" in his books. It is all about the Benjamins.
The out for the women at the end… men are worse.
Rare example of Pastor Doug being excessively winsome.
This is absolutely awful. He just spewed out a bunch of his person opinions with little support from scripture. Such a disgrace he is!
Ok
Nope.
Examples?
I have watched a bunch of his videos. So far, they have all been "absolutely awful".
Apparently, Doug didn't see that section: Eph 5:21 "Submit yourselves to one another because of your reverence for Christ." And Galations 3: There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." He is using the Bible as an excuse for sexism. Nothing more. Grow up in your faith. Learn to exegete for yourselves. Learn logic for yourselves. You will no longer abuse the Bible for sexism. You will no longer be a Calvinist. You will no longer be a presuppositionalist.
That portion refers men to men submition. Context of whole Bible requires that.
You're such a fool
@@georgelopez3146 Yeah right, "context of the whole Bible" is just one way folks favor the passages they like, and discount the ones they do not like. "harmonizing", is another term used for the same purpose. Both are excuses to get away from exegeting passages that do not support you "presupposed" theology.
I'm confused how you can exegete Eph 5:21 in a way that rejects "Wives submit to your own husbands". It literally says those exact words in Eph 5:22.
@@NTon13 Pretty simple. The same way we exegete Paul's teaching for women to grow their hair long, and not wear pearls, or not to eat meat offered to idols. They are cultural teachings no longer applicable. Paul placed women in every position of leadership in other churches, Paul also taught "In Christ there no male nor female.."
You better invent a car with 2 steering wheels, the times demand it.
But maybe the solution is a car with NO STEERING WHEELS, because obviously OUR OWN SELF DRIVING creation is going to SMAK US somewhere at our final destination.
One quick clarification is needed I think. The Father is eternally the Father to the Son, but that relationship has no semblance of authority or hierarchy. Granted, the incarnate Son submits to the Father, as the God-man, but the Son is not eternally submitted to the Father.
1 Corinthians 15:28 would disagree with you
1 Cor. 11:3 disagrees with you. The Father is Christ's Boss. Christ consistently stated in John that He has _always_ submitted to the will of the Father. That means there is a hierarchy. Rev. 1:1 makes this fact even clearer where it shows the Father revealing prophecy to Christ, who then relays it to John through an angel. Christ said that no one except who knows the day or hour of His return? The Father!
Not just the First Corinthian cited above but also the gospels when Christ is in the garden asking the father to remove the cup Christ does the father's will he is submissive to the father
I thought I was clear in my post but apparently not. The Scriptures quite clearly affirm the incarnate Son of God submitted to the Father as He carried out His redemptive work. But to suggest that the eternal Son of God is, by nature, ontologically submitted to the Father is to do violence to the Scriptures, the Trinity, our redemption, the creeds, as well as our Protestant confessions.
@@ehudsdagger5619 I think scripture is pretty clear that is he *is* ontologically submitted.