I have been a loyal Harley owner since 2003. I love Harley but I feel that they have lost their way. They have not innovated to keep up with the times. I test rode an Indian Challenger in 2021 and I was blown away by the ride and technology. I felt like I went from a Chevy to a Lamborghini. I now own a 2023 Indian Challenger Elite. It was deliver on January 4th. The bike is amazing! I still own 3 Harleys but the bike I ride most often is the Indian Challenger Elite.
Tourque has nothing at all to do with an engine's stroke dimension. Torque Is a function of Displacement and BMEP, no matter how you slice it. ( in theoretical mathematics ) same displacement, same pressure = same torque .....same psi on a larger piston = More pressure, into a shorter torque arm = same torque at the same displacement at the same pressure. but Where The Challenger Is Much Better Than A CVO, is in that the charges finish burning BEFORE the exhaust valves open, throughout the rev range...and that has to do with the piston speed.
i am an H-D loyal too. but i have been advocating for the M8 bottom ends to be standardized to a 4.000" inch stroke For Years, so them breaching 4.500" with the 121 sent me *Right Over The Edge.*
The only thing I will give Indian challenger is most parts are made in America 🇺🇸 and it’s a fast bike. I need reliable transport. All the electronics in that bike has had some problems.
I own a ‘22 Challenger Elite and out a truck on it. I LOVE this bike. It’s my third as I’ve had a VROD for 18 years and a Honda Shadow before that. The best thing about these bikes is that adjustable windscreen/windshield. Any time I go over 50 mph I pop that up and all the wind goes away. I read so many reviews prior to buying and I couldn’t be happier. FYI, when you install the trunk to the challenger, the key fob works for all 3 locks.
Lets talk about resale value between the Indian and Harley bikes. I have a 2020 Road glide limited and a buddy has a 2022 Indian pursuit. My RGL has a NADA value that is $2000 less than the Pursuit. We both payed roughly the same for the bikes. I am liking the Indian Challenger/Pursuits and what they have to offer as far as tech. goes. However, the thing that keeps me from buying one is the lack of dealerships around me (closest one is 2 hours away) and the lack of aftermarket options. The only other thing i must say is that the Indian bikes just seem less finished to me compared to Harley. But overall, i like what Indian is doing! They are basically making Harley step up their game.
I can understand the concern about dealerships but in their case of Indian there is a pretty fair amount of them and they are only growing rapidly. I am a huge fan of my BMW k1600gtl. Even though it is a 2013 it is still better on almost every level then a Harley or the Indian Challenger or even a Goldwing. It beats them all in power and amenities and handling. But I sold it because of all their proprietary connectivity. You couldn't even turn off the engine light when you change your own oil and there is very few dealers around. My point is that Indian after only being in business about eight years has more dealerships than BMW and they're getting to be more and more every year. My next bike is going to be an Indian.
I own a 2021 CVO RG, and absolutely love it…well not the price and dealership nonsense. I had a good fortune to be able to test ride Indian motorcycles (in 2022, not including, of course, the elite) and found the entire Indian line well-made, fantastic, power, incredible weight, distribution and balance. My overall impression is that Indian makes a better product for less money, and above that, you don’t need to put a lot of extras in to get the bike up to speed. Harley-Davidson suspension systems are absolutely piss poor, regardless of whether you buy a base model or the very best they make. I had to spend an additional $1500 on a suspension system on top of other things. I continue to fully enjoy my ride, but if I do replace it years from now, I certainly would have no hesitation in purchasing an Indian if everything else stays the same.
Your Challenger comments are spot-on. I spent 7 years on a Chief Vintage. A quality build all around; not a single issue. My 2022 Challenger LTD. is the best handling motorcycle I have ridden. That said, Indian needs to improve its reliability. At 1600 miles it left me stranded on a long trip... engine quit. Took two dealers working on it and frankly, I am still not convinced it's fixed.
Answering the question you posed at the end of the video: The HD Road Glide Special looks the best of all classic bagger-style touring bikes to my eye. That's what I finally went ahead and bought last season; it's my first Harley. I can appreciate that Indian bikes pack a ton of features for the money, but I just prefer Harley design language (classic styling rather than Indian's more modern styling). I get it, though. You do pay more for the HD, and then pay more on top of that to customize it. For me it just fits my vision of what I want a classic touring bike to be, though, and no amount of extra features can outweigh that for me. I love looking at it, listening to it and riding it. Indian's rise in the market space combined with HD's stagnation will push HD to make changes, though. Competition is good. Keep it going, Indian!
Well its good for you that you went ahead and bought that "classic" Harley NOW, because I saw pictures of next years Harley designs and they HAVE in fact, changed the designs to many of their groups of bikes.. And im sure it was because they're feeling the HEAT from Indian, lol. Indian is the ORIGINAL "O.G." and im glad they've moved back in to the market to reclaim their throne. Those first few years back were kind of dicey for Indian in my opinion. But they're firing on all cylinders now and will be hard to stop.
@@shocfacter I saw that as well! For the time-being it sounds like only the CVO models have been revealed/leaked. Presumably features will filter down to the other models over time, but I'm happy I got mine now for sure.
I know I'm talking about the wrong bike here but it's close enough. I love my Indian Pursuit. I just wish it had a reverse, I wish the handlebars were not as far apart and forward. I bought the reduced reach handlebars and I still feel like I have to reach too far. It's OK but after awhile, it makes my back hurt. The power is absolutely perfect. The range of miles per tank is 260 miles which is a plus. The seats are very comfortable. The paint job is fantastic, the infotainment system is very nice. The chrome touches are just right. The storage space is typical but very good. The brakes are great. The fit and trim has a few negatives as the chrome piece on top of the tank has an exposed screw that should have a chrome button to hide it. Also the carpeting in the trunk is very loosely fitted (I fixed that with velcro lock and loop tape. I like how the trickle charger port is located so easily below the dash. I'm surprised it doesn't come with XM/Sirius radio. I don't feel too much heat from the engine and I used to drive Goldwings for 20 years. Anyway, you're video is spot on and enjoyable.
I'd love a Pursuit Elite, but I went with a DCT Tour Wing. While the Indian is clearly a better value than the Harley, the discounted '23 Wing I bought for $26,8xx was a better value IMO. Someday I'll get an Indian.
I have a ‘21 Challenger Dark Horse. I added an Advanblack tour pack, with lights, 6.5” Cicada speakers and the CVO lock actuator. I built the harnesses to make all this work, protect my bike’s electronics from the resistance differences, and be quick disconnect. It all came out for less than buying an Indian trunk. I’ve hooked up a few other riders with those harnesses as well.
I had a HD Sportster Super Low, then an Indian Springfield, then a HD Street Glide Special and now I have a 2023 Indian Springfield. Why did I come back to an Indian motorcycle with a classic look? Comfort and aesthetics. Other factors such as after market parts, clothing inventory, large number of dealers, social components, etc were not in my head when I made my final decision. Many great HD bikes yet my interest is all about the one that puts a smile on my face. BTW, that blue color in that Elite is beautiful. Happy Riding Everyone.
I Ordered my 23 Challenger Elite the day after it was released in CA. And all of the dealers in our state were sold out I got the last one in Ca. Can't wait to get mine! Sold my Chieftain a month ago and can't wait to get back on the Road.
If I bought a new bike right now it would be the Indian Challenger. Indian has a gold mine on their hands. I have rode Harley Davidson bikes for 20 years. Indian has full liquid cooling, full counter balancing, a gear drive primary and single hole oil fill and draining. Once I am done with my 2015 HD Indian gets my money next go around because they have all the bells and whistles built in.
After 45 years of owning a variety of HD's, and in the last 20 mostly baggers it was time to retire. In Melbourne Australia I do part time motorcycle chauffeur rides, and even with twin fan oil cooler my 2012 stripped Ultra Classic would get VERY hot in stop start traffic. Whe the Challenger came out I did a LOT of research, and waited for the 2021 before I test rode it. I was sold from day one. Reason? Brilliant suspension, and having this electronic suspension is NOT a gimick, it's a brilliant idea. Superior handling also with the great suspension, and the VERY good Metzeler CruiseTec tyres as standard. The brakes-excellent. The Apple Car Play and sat nav-brilliant. BUT the biggie for me is that liquid cooled motor. It is significantly cooler and actually loves the heat! I am talking about 100 F days of riding. The massive bonus on top of that turbine smooth power is much more comfortable passengers, safer riding with far better suspension, a motor that LOVES to boogie, and a brilliant riding experience. Don't get me wrong, I still love the HD's, but as the man says the Indian at this stage is WAY ahead in terms of safety, comfort, that brilliant motor, and the overall package. HD is still ahead with paint quality and number of dealerships. Ride them both and see what you think.
The Indian Challenger Elite is a better bike for the buck. Hands Down!! Like I've said before, I hope the 2023s have improved the navigation and ride command. Those have been the biggest Achilles heels. The only glaring negative about the Elite are those back saddlebag lights you discussed. They don't blink and break with the EOM lights like the Custom Dynamic lights do. They would have to be changed right away. Other than that, it's a dream bike.
What better? It has a number of recalls for electrical issues. If horse power is the only concern than fine. While your paying for speeding tickets the Harley rider will wave 👋,as they ride by you and the 👮♂️.
@@tax905972 What's better!? Let's just go by empirical data... Liquid cooled motor with more power and more torque, better suspension with electronic adjustability from the touchscreen, Brembo brakes, inverted forks, key fob lockable bags, LED Lights all around, traction control and ABS, electronic windshield. All this comes stock on a bike right off the showroom floor. And don't tell me that Harley owners don't love to upgrade their bikes as soon as they buy them and improving the power & torque is one of the main things they do. You're looking at several thousands of dollars added to even come close to what you get with the Elite when it comes to that, stock. Oh, and speeding tickets happen to all of us who love to ride our bikes hard. I admit the electronics need improvements, but a software update can fix most of them, if not all.
Im lol because for years the running joke has been how HD are always in the shop and you have to wrench on them before you can even ride and gere a guy is saying the indian is the least dependable bike 😅
When you lock the bags, do the forks also lock? Or do they lock only by key? Also, does the Elite come with any extra goodies like a bike cover or Headsets?
The most comfortable bike I’ve ever been on is an Indian Chief, this was about 10 years or so ago. Reason I went to HD is accessories available and dealership locations.
Heg as a former Indian owner please make sure you have a good support dealer. My local dealer was not. My Road Master kept throwing codes and the dealer said ride it the engine light will off after 50 miles. I traded it for a Harley at the Indian dealer. I agree with what you say about being better than Harley but without good support of dealer it can be a nightmare.
Looks are subjective. I personally like the looks of the Challenger better. I agree with the paint on the HD’s. Harley will have to do a complete re-design of the RG to complete with the Challenger.
Just bought a 20 limited came off a vtx with 92000 miles and already put 3500 miles on it in a couple weeks every time I get off have to turn around just love it!!!
Test rode both the Harleys and the Indian Challenger at Daytona this year and the Indian was better than Harley in every way and most noticeably, the engine and transmission. Indian gear box is smoother and had no problem finding neutral. I was not able to find neutral on any of the big engine Harleys and I rode them all. I enjoyed riding the Low Rider and the smaller engine Harleys way more than the rest of them but definitely Indian is a better and more enjoyable bike to ride than Harley by far…sorry Harley!!!
I own both. And yes, I have even owned a CVO (115th Anniversary Limited). The thing is this: You get more features on paper with the Indian. However, the fit and finish, especially the paint, is superior on the Harley. And, that is across the line (CVO/Elite and standard). I don't agree with the comfort - they are both comfortable. I will say that the seat on my Challenger is the most comfortable stock seat I have ever had. The advantage for Indian is the feature sheet, fit/finish and customization options go to Harley. I can appreciate the performance of the Challenger, but it's not (IMO) as dramatic as it's made out to be - it's faster than my stock Harley, but not by a wide margin. Plus, we are talking about baggers/tourers here - if I wanted speed, I'd buy a liter bike.
I agree with the gloss paints. I have a Springfield Darkhorse which has a matte white paint which is good, cause the bars and few other parts that have gloss black scuff too easy. They really need to change the clear coat they use. But other than that mine has been a great bike 3 years now. Overall some improvements are needed on the Indians for sure.
I do know my 2020 RG is staying right where it is all of the challengers ive seen look a little cheap made but thats me. saying that Ive never seen the elete model
I had a 21 CVO RG and it did not come anywhere close to my Challenger Limited. I am willing to bet you don’t own a Challenger because you would never be saying these things. Also Harleys paint is sht. Look up the customer complaints on how bad they are.
@@cartrack730 Shall I send you my RUclips channel? It's a motovlog, and there's my CVO, Challenger, Road Master, Street Glide, and Ultra Limited on it.
If you’re saving grace for Harley is “fit and finish”, you’re ingesting huge amounts of copium. The hard truth is that Indian makes better bikes, period. The only reason Harley is still at the top of the market is because name has created a mass delusion of superiority and they have stealership virtually around every corner. All things that have nothing to do with the performance of the bike. And by performance I don’t mean raw numbers, because in reality the slightly larger 117’s to the 116’s and the 114’s to the 111’s only produce slightly more power than the Indians, and that difference is so insignificant that unless you’re racing or you ride like a maniac (illegally) on the streets you can’t tell the difference in the 2 to 5 extra ft-lbs of torque the 114 or 117 gives you. In 2023 you still have to pay extra to get LED lights front, rear and turn signals for most Harleys, which is standard for almost every other motorcycle brand in the market. And for the argument that Indian only wins because of all the features, well for someone that doesn’t have tens of thousands of dollars the blow on a CVO or thousands to blow on aftermarket parts to bring the new Harley’s into the 21’st century, I’d rather have all the features and never use them when I’m forking out the steep prices they’re asking for their product. The softail standard still doesn’t offer cruise control. Something that for every other company is standard for anything above 90 cubic inches. They’re the only motor vehicle company in the world that doesn’t offer basic features without charging extra for them and still refers to themselves as a premium luxury company. If Cadillac did that they’d be out of business.
I'll never buy a CVO, and similarly I'll never buy the "Elite" edition Indian. I just don't want to throw that kind of money at a bike. That said, I'll definitely by a Challenger Dark Horse next time I buy a touring bike. I've had my share of Harley's (1 RK, 2 SG's, 1 RG, 1 Softail), and have since fallen in lust for the Indian line of touring bikes. The Challenger Dark Horse checks off every box on my list of priorities for a new touring model, hands down.
I sat on a Indian Challenger recently. It felt cheaply put together material wise & fit & finish compared to the Harleys I’ve had! No thanks! You get exactly what you pay for in this life !
@@derfskittlers6125 No it goes this is an extremely well put together bike ! I couldn’t get past the plastic handlebar switch housings on the El Cheapo Indian!!!
I own the Challenger limited. Coming from a HD I can tell you the Challenger is closer to the Goldwing than HD. Plastic? Absolutely. Inferior paint? Yes. Fit and finish? HD is better. But! I can tell you the Challenger is light years ahead of HD in every other aspect.
I have Corning control ! Sticky tires and a fantastic sense of balance , and when the pegs are dragging , that’s the limit , there could be a bump , then she kicks out ! But we’ve never gone down !
Great motorcycle. Fyi...my 2012 Goldwing has electric adjustable shocks. Heated seats and grips. It also has a key fob to lock/unlock the trunk and bags. Oh, the best of all its LIQUID COOLED. So, Honda has been doing this stuff for years.
Harley finds themselves in a weird situation, if they produce an ICON line, they are not being innovative enough, if they produce a new CVO line such as the all new Road Glide CVO, then they get accused of copying the Polaris Indian line or forgetting their base. The Challenger Elite is only about 4000 less MSRP. When you are spending >35k on a motorcycle thats not much of a difference. And please dont fool yourselves it is a Polaris. It is not the 1901 company that competed against Harley on hillclimbs and board track. Y'all do understand that, right?
I went to harley davidson because indian didn't have all the after-market parts. And indian has its own set of issues with bikes, do I trust a company that had a good thing with victory and shut down.. what's to say it doesn't happen in 5 years. Lastly HD is everywhere. Take a trip, and if you need service, it's easier to locate a dealer or services
Love my 22 challenger limited. 6,300 miles since October and it’s been an amazing bike. I was torn between the road glide and the challenger. Really liked both bikes but the features on the challenger limited along with the performance got me hooked. Road glide has that classic Harley Davidson look and tons of aftermarket support however the challenger just had options Harley Davidson didn’t offer. Really like the challenger elite but I almost have my limited where I want it
Stage 2 cams 2-1-2 or 2-1 exhaust (I have tab Performance with Zombie baffles Air intake ECU flash (lloyds garage) How much faster you wanna go? And how fast you wanna get there?
The Indian engines appear to be far superior to HD... water cooling is the way to go. I am waiting for HD to get in the game with a better cooling engine. You can also make better power with a cooler engine. Most people seem to be really happy with their Indian bike. The features on the Indian bikes spank the HD bikes. Good on Indian. HD needs competition. It is good for both companies and the consumer. The problem with Indian is the lack of dealerships. I have a riding buddy who has had a few reoccurring problems with his Indian bike. Fuel vapor lock at high altitudes and electrical demons. Otherwise, he is happy overall. Thanks for the review :-)
I have a 22 Elite, build #5. Love the bike, it’s my 3rd Challenger. Had a 20 Darkhorse, went to a 22 Limited and they announced the Elite the day after I bought it. I ordered the Elite and it’s my favorite bike. Before the Challengers, I have been on Harleys for 20+ years. I had an Ultra Classic, 16 Trask Street Glide and I traded in a 15 Road King on my first Challenger. All of my Challengers have blown away my Harleys in every way.
Sir, thanks for the video. You do not sugar coat it. Indian is producing nice better equipped bikes and cheaper. Harley , they are becoming the Walmart of motorcycles unless they wake up The one thing Indian needs to do is a factory trike. I want a trike, but I can’t spend the money on Harley for the little they give us Maybe someday.
I like that Indian have truly limited bikes. The Elites and the Jack Daniels models. I tried to get the 22 Elite and missed out. This year, I got the last pre-order! Amazing bike, the ride, the look, and the warranty. The home link is awesome, too. I just had to purchase the dongle, and you can open gates and the garage door. Only knock, and I agree a lot, the ride command. I know they are working with it, and the concept with the maps and sharing with other people is cool but not polished well. Also, I wish they would would let android auto work. Only Apple will work. Kinda of weird, but maybe some legals are going on there!?!?
@NoPantsoN I bought carlink thru their website and let me tell you. Not worth the wait or trouble. Maybe another brand but I'm ok with just having the phone on the quad lock.
So you said you're using the 2022 cvo because the 23 has more options, and that wouldn't be fair? I take it. Wouldn't that just be one good tick for HD?
I'm a former Harley owner. I had a 2020 Road Glide . i switched over cuz of the same reasons. The handling , the suspension , and the overall ride was better. Ill take an I median over a Harley any day . They're just a better built machine
I could not get my hands on an Elite. I bought a Challenger Limited 2021 3 years ago. I just traded it in for a Pursuit dark horse 2024. My buddy has the Elite 2023. He loves it. Mabel one day. Does anyone heard any word on the 2025 Elite?
Love my Challenger. Hate the fact that Harley is going to steal everything from it, but hopefully Indian stays ahead and I am sure they will. I don’t think Harley is going to keep up. The Harley fanboys are still going to buy outdated junk and be proud.
+admittedly, I'm a harley Roadglide special owner. It's a relatively old girl, 2015, but I've upgraded her a whole lot ....cams, polished heads and a whole lot more bling. I like the infotainment system on this Indian bike and it doesn't look half bad... but I own too many Harley jackets and T-shirts...lol...to switch teams now...and the the HD aftermarket makes it fun to upgrade....Indians are cool but just not as cool or as fun as owning a HD...I'll always ride a Harley even though there might be better things out there...like there has been for a long time...I used to ride Crotch rockets. Mine is still comfortable and itwill run with the best touring bike out there, i'm sure...and I made it mine/myself...I'm not sure I could do that with an Indian. It still seems like a nice bike though and if I was s getting into the lsport/ifestyle right now, I might start here...but it's too late for me. Although HD has been disappointing lately.
Problem is they only make 250. When I called my local Indian dealer network to try to buy one the dealer knowing full well that they could not get it kept trying to get me to come in to 'discuss my options' while refusing to confirm if they could get this bike for me or not. Had my buddy try the same thing in GA and they pulled the same crap. Indian is shady AF
For me, my Harley Davidson CVO is not the best motorcycle because then I could ride a BMW GS. But harley davidson embodies a lifestyle and passion. You watch a CVO and all worries are forgotten. For me, Indian cannot embody that feeling. Greetings from Germany.
Great video! I totally agree, the Indian is a much better motorcycle for the money. But, in this price range the $6,000 probably won`t make a difference, all depends what style you prefer. Either way it`s big money! That being said, I love everything about the Indian Challenger, except for that gaudy looking fairing. 😎
675 Harley dealers in the US and 197 Indian dealers. If access to a dealer for emergency repairs when touring wasn’t a concern I’d be riding BMW’s. Harley really supports their customers in that way and that’s why I always stick with the brand.
If I got to choose a bike that has the largest dealer network because they know its going to break, what does that say. And touring, it's always a 3 week wait..trip over.
Amazing bikes right out of the box! Put an exhaust on it and go! That’s the thing with the new Indian bikes you don’t need all the aftermarket stuff to make it right! The next thing you will here is dealer network is lacking completely disagree I think over 300 dealers now and even in rural Pa I have three within an hour of me. Quite frankly don’t need them change the one oil and ride and I have 75,000 miles on three different bikes.
There is new Harley street glide and Road glide coming with suspension and more upgrades this year. Also I like the new Honda Neowing ( not sure when that will be ready). This bike that you discussed surely is more value - especially the suspension which so important. I just went the other day and took seat on a new street glide - you think it should glide but it will not- it’s got the flint stone suspension man- nothing moves except your bones😅😅.
@@garrettpeterson3676 no bro. Harley is launching an updated and redesigned version this year for both street glide and road glide. Probably the CVO version. It will be expensive though.
@@garrettpeterson3676 too soon bro. I think H-D has always been very thoughtful about how their bikes look. It must be the weird camera angle or camera.
As a Harley owner, I have to admit the Indian is a far more superior bike in almost every aspect. I think the paint is much better on a Harley. If there just was more Indian dealers around I would have bought an Indian 1st Closest dealership to me is over 70 miles away, so if you ever needed any warranty work it would just be so much harder to get done. Also the aftermarket to customize your Harley is night and day compared to customizing a Indian.
the only reason to customise a Harley, is the fact that after you've spent $25 grand on a motorcycle, it needs another $10 grand to make it rideable, whilst Indian, or any other motorcycle doesn't... cause HD is a cult, no brains needed to follow it
@@czarekp3552 There isn't a motorcycle rider on this planet that doesn't customize their bike. If you ride, you always search for more... I've customized and added performance to every bike (dirt bike, moped, scooter) I owned since I was 15.
I love the Elite looks. My co-worker owns one. He can't get over how comfortable this bike is. I own 2020 Goldwing DCT Tour and its not going anywhere anytime soon, but my eyes are opening to an Indian Challenger. HD needs to watch out. They are getting crushed in a vise day by day. Indian............GOOD JOB !!!
I put a deposit on a pursuit 3 months ago. I walked into the dealership ready to ride one off the lot. Didn't need some time to come up with money. Didn't need my wife's permission. I was ready to go. I test road the challenger when they first came out. Yes, they are a better motorcycle. They are made by a vastly inferior company. My 4-6 week lead time turned into 3-5 months. Between the time I put my deposit on the Pursuit, and now, I had troubles with my Street Glide. Harley is awesome. They are huge, and they are strong. I just got back from a 3500 mile round trip to SD. My HD dealership did backflips to get my bike ready for that trip on time. While in SD I got in and out of a dealership in two hours with a fresh set of tires. There were probably 50 dealers that could have done the same thing for me on the way to and from Detroit. When I got home from that trip, I called my Indian salesman and explained the facts. Indian told me 4-6 weeks. That turned into an apology and 3-5 months. Sure it's a cool bike. Polaris is a bush league manufacturer though. If they can't make the bike for me, how will they help me keep it together. I've done 80k miles in the last 4 years. Indian is not ready for a rider like me.
Meh my buddies indian quit on a big trip. was a real fun killer. Ill take low tech HD. I need to cross the Rockies, not wait for flatbeds and dream of Cold beers.
Yeah, but when you buy a CVO, you still have to upgrade the suspension, add LED's and then slap a stage 2 on it. May have more resale value, but you also have to pay a lot more.
Maybe you should know what your talking about. Cvo s all come w all led s. I’ve owned a06 victory hammer. Loved. Then a 2012 cross country loved. But cruise control system failed after warranty then the stereo took a shit!! Victory Indian use lit of same parts. Fit finish and electrical systems suck on Polaris. My 2016 cvo has all and yes I put 2 k in my suspension but it bad boy now.
@@chadvanhorn4866 Still overpriced for what you get. And they still have the same issues as any other Harley when it comes to mechanical issues. Hell, I can just type my weight on the Ride Command screen and my suspension adjusts for me. Yes, the only issue i'm having is with Apple Carplay. Other than that, no issues at all. And I have yet to go on a road trip without someone's Harley breaking down.
@@DJGENOTYPE cvo s have screaming eagle parts that are upgrades to a normal Harley!! Clutch, engine. Mines a 16 normal Harley 103 ci. Cvo 110 all screaming eagle but I have up upgraded 117. 13k only put battery in it. And cvo s are built by one too two peeps and not on the assembly line. In the screaming eagle building.
All the gadgets are nice! But I dont need them. I ride a Heritage and a Road King they have everything I need. I have nothing at all against Indian. I really like the Springfield! But the lack of dealerships when you are on a road trip would stop me from owning one. Good video!
@@GraemeBlore I'm very happy with all that on my bike. But what do you do when your bike breaks down and your nearest indian dealer is a few hundred miles away?
I think that paint job came from Harleys Apex paint scheme. Which is impressive. I would take a new Harley or a new Indian without complaint. In some places where your service is limited you need to like and feel comfortable with your dealer. Also a factor. Most people can do basic maintenance. It depends on your budget what speaks to you and what feels comfortable.
Harley offers new fancy paint names every year. Competition offers paint, more horsepower, and more electronics every year. People end up buying used Harley’s vs new ones because of the above. The motor company needs to sell new bikes and change their present marketing model. Car brands offer just a little bit more horsepower every year. Many bikes approaching and passing the $20,000 point. CVO’s approaching or over $40,000 point. With Covid we became use to overpaying on depreciating liabilities like cars and motorcycles. With increasing interest rates, recession, and sales brilliance of Tesla discounting thousands, people have awakened where is my discount. Indian giving more what public expects. No need stage 2-4. Nice job Indian
Nice looking bike but there just aren't enough Indian dealers in the country. Would hate getting stuck somewhere hundreds of miles away from the nearest Indian dealer!
Don’t do it. They are great bikes, but so is a Gold Wing. It’s not a Harley Davidson though. I had a Indian Chieftain Dark Horse for 4 years and the fit and finish does not hold up either. In the end it is not close to a Harley. Just my thoughts, ride what you want.
While a different type of ride, my 2016 Springfield has held up well with nothing failing mechanically or cosmetically. Like cars, all bikes are prone to various issues, especially new releases.
My 2022 Challenger had a lot of fit and finish issues. Those grey saddle bag guards popped off (they are held on by tiny glue dots), the paint was too soft (lots of scrapes in it), the power windshield switch fell off all the time, and one of the saddlebag latches won't engage all the time. Plus, the grips were cheap, hard plastic. I don't have any problems like that on my HDs. Ultimately, I traded it in because mine also had a lot of electrical problems.
![Oscar Maydon x Fuerza Regida - Tu Boda [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_ymicn0_GYc/mqdefault.jpg)
I have been a loyal Harley owner since 2003. I love Harley but I feel that they have lost their way. They have not innovated to keep up with the times. I test rode an Indian Challenger in 2021 and I was blown away by the ride and technology. I felt like I went from a Chevy to a Lamborghini. I now own a 2023 Indian Challenger Elite. It was deliver on January 4th. The bike is amazing! I still own 3 Harleys but the bike I ride most often is the Indian Challenger Elite.
Tourque has nothing at all to do with an engine's stroke dimension.
Torque Is a function of Displacement and BMEP, no matter how you slice it. ( in theoretical mathematics )
same displacement, same pressure = same torque .....same psi on a larger piston = More pressure, into a shorter torque arm = same torque at the same displacement at the same pressure.
but Where The Challenger Is Much Better Than A CVO, is in that the charges finish burning BEFORE the exhaust valves open, throughout the rev range...and that has to do with the piston speed.
or to say ----> Flame Front Speed. ( H-D Can Not Afford To Argue With Physics
i am an H-D loyal too.
but i have been advocating for the M8 bottom ends to be standardized to a 4.000" inch stroke For Years,
so them breaching 4.500" with the 121 sent me *Right Over The Edge.*
The only thing I will give Indian challenger is most parts are made in America 🇺🇸 and it’s a fast bike. I need reliable transport. All the electronics in that bike has had some problems.
Just out of curiosity, what year and model was your Harley?
I rode this and the road glide CVO on the same loop back to back. I'd take this over the CVO any day. It rides just so amazingly good
I own a ‘22 Challenger Elite and out a truck on it. I LOVE this bike. It’s my third as I’ve had a VROD for 18 years and a Honda Shadow before that.
The best thing about these bikes is that adjustable windscreen/windshield. Any time I go over 50 mph I pop that up and all the wind goes away.
I read so many reviews prior to buying and I couldn’t be happier. FYI, when you install the trunk to the challenger, the key fob works for all 3 locks.
I been riding a Challenger since 2020 and have loved every moment. 30k on her so far. Can't wait for this season to start. Just a few more weeks!!!!
Have you had any issues with the Challenger?
Life’s short, just buy the Indian! I friggin love mine.
Lets talk about resale value between the Indian and Harley bikes. I have a 2020 Road glide limited and a buddy has a 2022 Indian pursuit. My RGL has a NADA value that is $2000 less than the Pursuit. We both payed roughly the same for the bikes. I am liking the Indian Challenger/Pursuits and what they have to offer as far as tech. goes. However, the thing that keeps me from buying one is the lack of dealerships around me (closest one is 2 hours away) and the lack of aftermarket options. The only other thing i must say is that the Indian bikes just seem less finished to me compared to Harley. But overall, i like what Indian is doing! They are basically making Harley step up their game.
Sounds like an excuse for not wanting a quality and enjoyable ride home.
The thing about Indian, once you own one, selling it doesn’t even come across your mind.
I can understand the concern about dealerships but in their case of Indian there is a pretty fair amount of them and they are only growing rapidly.
I am a huge fan of my BMW k1600gtl.
Even though it is a 2013 it is still better on almost every level then a Harley or the Indian Challenger or even a Goldwing. It beats them all in power and amenities and handling.
But I sold it because of all their proprietary connectivity. You couldn't even turn off the engine light when you change your own oil and there is very few dealers around.
My point is that Indian after only being in business about eight years has more dealerships than BMW and they're getting to be more and more every year.
My next bike is going to be an Indian.
I own a 2021 CVO RG, and absolutely love it…well not the price and dealership nonsense. I had a good fortune to be able to test ride Indian motorcycles (in 2022, not including, of course, the elite) and found the entire Indian line well-made, fantastic, power, incredible weight, distribution and balance. My overall impression is that Indian makes a better product for less money, and above that, you don’t need to put a lot of extras in to get the bike up to speed. Harley-Davidson suspension systems are absolutely piss poor, regardless of whether you buy a base model or the very best they make. I had to spend an additional $1500 on a suspension system on top of other things. I continue to fully enjoy my ride, but if I do replace it years from now, I certainly would have no hesitation in purchasing an Indian if everything else stays the same.
These Elites do look great. I was looking at one at my local dealer. It's amazing riding a Challenger how light this big machine feels.
The fact that everyone and their mother rides a Harley is enough for me to get an Indian Challenger.
A 'Black Harley.'
I got a 2022 flxrst and want a wagon burner 😂😂😂 I love tech.
@@integraclean4786 because the black looks badass. If Harley made colors like Indian does then there would be less black bikes on the road lol
Your Challenger comments are spot-on. I spent 7 years on a Chief Vintage. A quality build all around; not a single issue. My 2022 Challenger LTD. is the best handling motorcycle I have ridden. That said, Indian needs to improve its reliability. At 1600 miles it left me stranded on a long trip... engine quit. Took two dealers working on it and frankly, I am still not convinced it's fixed.
American vehicles and reliability are polar opposites, but they're very charming
Answering the question you posed at the end of the video: The HD Road Glide Special looks the best of all classic bagger-style touring bikes to my eye. That's what I finally went ahead and bought last season; it's my first Harley. I can appreciate that Indian bikes pack a ton of features for the money, but I just prefer Harley design language (classic styling rather than Indian's more modern styling). I get it, though. You do pay more for the HD, and then pay more on top of that to customize it. For me it just fits my vision of what I want a classic touring bike to be, though, and no amount of extra features can outweigh that for me. I love looking at it, listening to it and riding it.
Indian's rise in the market space combined with HD's stagnation will push HD to make changes, though. Competition is good. Keep it going, Indian!
Well its good for you that you went ahead and bought that "classic" Harley NOW, because I saw pictures of next years Harley designs and they HAVE in fact, changed the designs to many of their groups of bikes.. And im sure it was because they're feeling the HEAT from Indian, lol. Indian is the ORIGINAL "O.G." and im glad they've moved back in to the market to reclaim their throne. Those first few years back were kind of dicey for Indian in my opinion. But they're firing on all cylinders now and will be hard to stop.
@@shocfacter I saw that as well! For the time-being it sounds like only the CVO models have been revealed/leaked. Presumably features will filter down to the other models over time, but I'm happy I got mine now for sure.
HD's stagnation? You're kidding, right?
I know I'm talking about the wrong bike here but it's close enough. I love my Indian Pursuit. I just wish it had a reverse, I wish the handlebars were not as far apart and forward. I bought the reduced reach handlebars and I still feel like I have to reach too far. It's OK but after awhile, it makes my back hurt. The power is absolutely perfect. The range of miles per tank is 260 miles which is a plus. The seats are very comfortable. The paint job is fantastic, the infotainment system is very nice. The chrome touches are just right. The storage space is typical but very good. The brakes are great. The fit and trim has a few negatives as the chrome piece on top of the tank has an exposed screw that should have a chrome button to hide it. Also the carpeting in the trunk is very loosely fitted (I fixed that with velcro lock and loop tape. I like how the trickle charger port is located so easily below the dash. I'm surprised it doesn't come with XM/Sirius radio. I don't feel too much heat from the engine and I used to drive Goldwings for 20 years. Anyway, you're video is spot on and enjoyable.
I'd love a Pursuit Elite, but I went with a DCT Tour Wing. While the Indian is clearly a better value than the Harley, the discounted '23 Wing I bought for $26,8xx was a better value IMO. Someday I'll get an Indian.
I have a ‘21 Challenger Dark Horse. I added an Advanblack tour pack, with lights, 6.5” Cicada speakers and the CVO lock actuator. I built the harnesses to make all this work, protect my bike’s electronics from the resistance differences, and be quick disconnect. It all came out for less than buying an Indian trunk. I’ve hooked up a few other riders with those harnesses as well.
I had a HD Sportster Super Low, then an Indian Springfield, then a HD Street Glide Special and now I have a 2023 Indian Springfield. Why did I come back to an Indian motorcycle with a classic look? Comfort and aesthetics. Other factors such as after market parts, clothing inventory, large number of dealers, social components, etc were not in my head when I made my final decision. Many great HD bikes yet my interest is all about the one that puts a smile on my face. BTW, that blue color in that Elite is beautiful. Happy Riding Everyone.
I Ordered my 23 Challenger Elite the day after it was released in CA. And all of the dealers in our state were sold out I got the last one in Ca. Can't wait to get mine! Sold my Chieftain a month ago and can't wait to get back on the Road.
What made you switch bikes? I know its more feature loaded. Just curious.
Hands down Indian builds a highly spec’d bike. The power, features and reliability keep me riding Indians since 2017.
Yep, my wife has a 2017 Indian Chieftain and has had zero issues with 38K miles.
Wow since 2017
I want one
Thanks for making me even more excited. Mine is supposed to arrive Friday. 🤤
If I bought a new bike right now it would be the Indian Challenger. Indian has a gold mine on their hands. I have rode Harley Davidson bikes for 20 years.
Indian has full liquid cooling, full counter balancing, a gear drive primary and single hole oil fill and draining. Once I am done with my 2015 HD Indian gets my money next go around because they have all the bells and whistles built in.
great content. I have the 22 Elite and love it. No issues at all with the bike.
After 45 years of owning a variety of HD's, and in the last 20 mostly baggers it was time to retire. In Melbourne Australia I do part time motorcycle chauffeur rides, and even with twin fan oil cooler my 2012 stripped Ultra Classic would get VERY hot in stop start traffic. Whe the Challenger came out I did a LOT of research, and waited for the 2021 before I test rode it. I was sold from day one. Reason? Brilliant suspension, and having this electronic suspension is NOT a gimick, it's a brilliant idea. Superior handling also with the great suspension, and the VERY good Metzeler CruiseTec tyres as standard. The brakes-excellent. The Apple Car Play and sat nav-brilliant. BUT the biggie for me is that liquid cooled motor. It is significantly cooler and actually loves the heat! I am talking about 100 F days of riding. The massive bonus on top of that turbine smooth power is much more comfortable passengers, safer riding with far better suspension, a motor that LOVES to boogie, and a brilliant riding experience. Don't get me wrong, I still love the HD's, but as the man says the Indian at this stage is WAY ahead in terms of safety, comfort, that brilliant motor, and the overall package. HD is still ahead with paint quality and number of dealerships. Ride them both and see what you think.
With the southern hemisphere coriolis effect, do your wheels move forward or backward when riding in Australia?
The Indian Challenger Elite is a better bike for the buck. Hands Down!! Like I've said before, I hope the 2023s have improved the navigation and ride command. Those have been the biggest Achilles heels. The only glaring negative about the Elite are those back saddlebag lights you discussed. They don't blink and break with the EOM lights like the Custom Dynamic lights do. They would have to be changed right away. Other than that, it's a dream bike.
What better? It has a number of recalls for electrical issues. If horse power is the only concern than fine. While your paying for speeding tickets the Harley rider will wave 👋,as they ride by you and the 👮♂️.
Sounds like it’s not a better Harley.
@@tax905972 What's better!? Let's just go by empirical data... Liquid cooled motor with more power and more torque, better suspension with electronic adjustability from the touchscreen, Brembo brakes, inverted forks, key fob lockable bags, LED Lights all around, traction control and ABS, electronic windshield. All this comes stock on a bike right off the showroom floor. And don't tell me that Harley owners don't love to upgrade their bikes as soon as they buy them and improving the power & torque is one of the main things they do. You're looking at several thousands of dollars added to even come close to what you get with the Elite when it comes to that, stock. Oh, and speeding tickets happen to all of us who love to ride our bikes hard. I admit the electronics need improvements, but a software update can fix most of them, if not all.
@@tax905972 Far better than. Harley. Not even close when it comes to tech and performance parts. Better to get tickets than call a tow truck.
Im lol because for years the running joke has been how HD are always in the shop and you have to wrench on them before you can even ride and gere a guy is saying the indian is the least dependable bike 😅
The best thing about Indian is there reliability I've been let down by Harley so many times I'll will never buy another one.i ride Indian now.
When you lock the bags, do the forks also lock? Or do they lock only by key? Also, does the Elite come with any extra goodies like a bike cover or Headsets?
The most comfortable bike I’ve ever been on is an Indian Chief, this was about 10 years or so ago. Reason I went to HD is accessories available and dealership locations.
Heg as a former Indian owner please make sure you have a good support dealer. My local dealer was not. My Road Master kept throwing codes and the dealer said ride it the engine light will off after 50 miles. I traded it for a Harley at the Indian dealer. I agree with what you say about being better than Harley but without good support of dealer it can be a nightmare.
Looks are subjective. I personally like the looks of the Challenger better. I agree with the paint on the HD’s. Harley will have to do a complete re-design of the RG to complete with the Challenger.
Been a challenger owner since may 2020 it’s my forever bike and my next bike will be another challenger most likely
Thanks to Indian, HD is improving and building their bikes better.
Not better than Indian, but better.
Just bought a 20 limited came off a vtx with 92000 miles and already put 3500 miles on it in a couple weeks every time I get off have to turn around just love it!!!
Test rode both the Harleys and the Indian Challenger at Daytona this year and the Indian was better than Harley in every way and most noticeably, the engine and transmission. Indian gear box is smoother and had no problem finding neutral. I was not able to find neutral on any of the big engine Harleys and I rode them all. I enjoyed riding the Low Rider and the smaller engine Harleys way more than the rest of them but definitely Indian is a better and more enjoyable bike to ride than Harley by far…sorry Harley!!!
the lowrider has the same milwaukee eight engine and 6 speed cruisedrive transmission as the bigger touring bikes though?
I really do love that color it’s sooooo attractive in the sunlight
I don’t like the throttle play on the Challenger I rode a couple of years ago. Is that still an issue?
My stunning 2019 Indian Springfield in steel gray and burgundy metallic and I concur, Cruiser Heaven, all day, every day!
I own both. And yes, I have even owned a CVO (115th Anniversary Limited). The thing is this: You get more features on paper with the Indian. However, the fit and finish, especially the paint, is superior on the Harley. And, that is across the line (CVO/Elite and standard). I don't agree with the comfort - they are both comfortable. I will say that the seat on my Challenger is the most comfortable stock seat I have ever had. The advantage for Indian is the feature sheet, fit/finish and customization options go to Harley. I can appreciate the performance of the Challenger, but it's not (IMO) as dramatic as it's made out to be - it's faster than my stock Harley, but not by a wide margin. Plus, we are talking about baggers/tourers here - if I wanted speed, I'd buy a liter bike.
I agree with the gloss paints. I have a Springfield Darkhorse which has a matte white paint which is good, cause the bars and few other parts that have gloss black scuff too easy. They really need to change the clear coat they use. But other than that mine has been a great bike 3 years now. Overall some improvements are needed on the Indians for sure.
I do know my 2020 RG is staying right where it is all of the challengers ive seen look a little cheap made but thats me. saying that Ive never seen the elete model
I had a 21 CVO RG and it did not come anywhere close to my Challenger Limited. I am willing to bet you don’t own a Challenger because you would never be saying these things. Also Harleys paint is sht. Look up the customer complaints on how bad they are.
@@cartrack730 Shall I send you my RUclips channel? It's a motovlog, and there's my CVO, Challenger, Road Master, Street Glide, and Ultra Limited on it.
If you’re saving grace for Harley is “fit and finish”, you’re ingesting huge amounts of copium. The hard truth is that Indian makes better bikes, period. The only reason Harley is still at the top of the market is because name has created a mass delusion of superiority and they have stealership virtually around every corner. All things that have nothing to do with the performance of the bike. And by performance I don’t mean raw numbers, because in reality the slightly larger 117’s to the 116’s and the 114’s to the 111’s only produce slightly more power than the Indians, and that difference is so insignificant that unless you’re racing or you ride like a maniac (illegally) on the streets you can’t tell the difference in the 2 to 5 extra ft-lbs of torque the 114 or 117 gives you. In 2023 you still have to pay extra to get LED lights front, rear and turn signals for most Harleys, which is standard for almost every other motorcycle brand in the market.
And for the argument that Indian only wins because of all the features, well for someone that doesn’t have tens of thousands of dollars the blow on a CVO or thousands to blow on aftermarket parts to bring the new Harley’s into the 21’st century, I’d rather have all the features and never use them when I’m forking out the steep prices they’re asking for their product.
The softail standard still doesn’t offer cruise control. Something that for every other company is standard for anything above 90 cubic inches.
They’re the only motor vehicle company in the world that doesn’t offer basic features without charging extra for them and still refers to themselves as a premium luxury company. If Cadillac did that they’d be out of business.
I actually bought both.....2022 HD Roadglide CVO in blue steel and an Indian 2023 elite.
I'll never buy a CVO, and similarly I'll never buy the "Elite" edition Indian. I just don't want to throw that kind of money at a bike. That said, I'll definitely by a Challenger Dark Horse next time I buy a touring bike. I've had my share of Harley's (1 RK, 2 SG's, 1 RG, 1 Softail), and have since fallen in lust for the Indian line of touring bikes. The Challenger Dark Horse checks off every box on my list of priorities for a new touring model, hands down.
I sat on a Indian Challenger recently. It felt cheaply put together material wise & fit & finish compared to the Harleys I’ve had! No thanks! You get exactly what you pay for in this life !
It's all in your head. When you sit on a Harley your brain kinda goes "ahhhhh" nostalgia.
@@derfskittlers6125 No it goes this is an extremely well put together bike ! I couldn’t get past the plastic handlebar switch housings on the El Cheapo Indian!!!
I own the Challenger limited. Coming from a HD I can tell you the Challenger is closer to the Goldwing than HD. Plastic? Absolutely. Inferior paint? Yes. Fit and finish? HD is better. But! I can tell you the Challenger is light years ahead of HD in every other aspect.
I have Corning control ! Sticky tires and a fantastic sense of balance , and when the pegs are dragging , that’s the limit , there could be a bump , then she kicks out ! But we’ve never gone down !
Great motorcycle.
Fyi...my 2012 Goldwing has electric adjustable shocks. Heated seats and grips. It also has a key fob to lock/unlock the trunk and bags. Oh, the best of all its LIQUID COOLED. So, Honda has been doing this stuff for years.
True but it’s ugly
I think you’re forgetting victory and who bought the Indian brand.
Probably also has reverse.
I test rode an Indian road master. I Bought it right after the test ride. Its been a great bike. I went back and bought another Indian scout as well.
What’s the maximum weight this bike can carry?
Harley finds themselves in a weird situation, if they produce an ICON line, they are not being innovative enough, if they produce a new CVO line such as the all new Road Glide CVO, then they get accused of copying the Polaris Indian line or forgetting their base. The Challenger Elite is only about 4000 less MSRP. When you are spending >35k on a motorcycle thats not much of a difference. And please dont fool yourselves it is a Polaris. It is not the 1901 company that competed against Harley on hillclimbs and board track. Y'all do understand that, right?
I went to harley davidson because indian didn't have all the after-market parts. And indian has its own set of issues with bikes, do I trust a company that had a good thing with victory and shut down.. what's to say it doesn't happen in 5 years. Lastly HD is everywhere. Take a trip, and if you need service, it's easier to locate a dealer or services
Love my 22 challenger limited. 6,300 miles since October and it’s been an amazing bike. I was torn between the road glide and the challenger. Really liked both bikes but the features on the challenger limited along with the performance got me hooked. Road glide has that classic Harley Davidson look and tons of aftermarket support however the challenger just had options Harley Davidson didn’t offer. Really like the challenger elite but I almost have my limited where I want it
What can you do for performance and sound for these bikes??
Stage 2 cams
2-1-2 or 2-1 exhaust (I have tab Performance with Zombie baffles
Air intake
ECU flash (lloyds garage)
How much faster you wanna go? And how fast you wanna get there?
@@monkeyboylifestyle5814 so it has a nice thump and awesome sound?
Lots of vids on RUclips of people doin exhaust and getting a new tune. They can sound great! I have the challenger and a HD love em both.
Thanks for posting both are great bikes bottom line ending has no dealer
Does that count as copying or does it only apply if Harley does it?
The Indian engines appear to be far superior to HD... water cooling is the way to go. I am waiting for HD to get in the game with a better cooling engine. You can also make better power with a cooler engine. Most people seem to be really happy with their Indian bike. The features on the Indian bikes spank the HD bikes. Good on Indian. HD needs competition. It is good for both companies and the consumer. The problem with Indian is the lack of dealerships. I have a riding buddy who has had a few reoccurring problems with his Indian bike. Fuel vapor lock at high altitudes and electrical demons. Otherwise, he is happy overall. Thanks for the review :-)
Harley is going to water cooled. It takes time for Harley buyers to adapt to modern times.
Little by little they will get there.
I am looking forward to it... :-)
Any option to add Canadian metric system to it?
I have a 22 Elite, build #5. Love the bike, it’s my 3rd Challenger. Had a 20 Darkhorse, went to a 22 Limited and they announced the Elite the day after I bought it. I ordered the Elite and it’s my favorite bike. Before the Challengers, I have been on Harleys for 20+ years. I had an Ultra Classic, 16 Trask Street Glide and I traded in a 15 Road King on my first Challenger. All of my Challengers have blown away my Harleys in every way.
Sir, thanks for the video.
You do not sugar coat it.
Indian is producing nice better equipped bikes and cheaper.
Harley , they are becoming the Walmart of motorcycles unless they wake up
The one thing Indian needs to do is a factory trike.
I want a trike, but I can’t spend the money on Harley for the little they give us
Maybe someday.
I like that Indian have truly limited bikes. The Elites and the Jack Daniels models. I tried to get the 22 Elite and missed out. This year, I got the last pre-order! Amazing bike, the ride, the look, and the warranty. The home link is awesome, too. I just had to purchase the dongle, and you can open gates and the garage door. Only knock, and I agree a lot, the ride command. I know they are working with it, and the concept with the maps and sharing with other people is cool but not polished well. Also, I wish they would would let android auto work. Only Apple will work. Kinda of weird, but maybe some legals are going on there!?!?
There is an adapter to let android auto work on the indian. Ive seen videos for it on youtube.
@NoPantsoN I bought carlink thru their website and let me tell you. Not worth the wait or trouble. Maybe another brand but I'm ok with just having the phone on the quad lock.
So you said you're using the 2022 cvo because the 23 has more options, and that wouldn't be fair? I take it. Wouldn't that just be one good tick for HD?
I'm a former Harley owner. I had a 2020 Road Glide . i switched over cuz of the same reasons. The handling , the suspension , and the overall ride was better. Ill take an I median over a Harley any day . They're just a better built machine
I could not get my hands on an Elite. I bought a Challenger Limited 2021 3 years ago. I just traded it in for a Pursuit dark horse 2024. My buddy has the Elite 2023. He loves it. Mabel one day. Does anyone heard any word on the 2025 Elite?
You showed the seat position at your height but didn't mention how tall you are. Thanks.
Love my Challenger. Hate the fact that Harley is going to steal everything from it, but hopefully Indian stays ahead and I am sure they will. I don’t think Harley is going to keep up. The Harley fanboys are still going to buy outdated junk and be proud.
Excellent video! Very comprehensive. Indian is leaving Harley in the dust.
+admittedly, I'm a harley Roadglide special owner. It's a relatively old girl, 2015, but I've upgraded her a whole lot ....cams, polished heads and a whole lot more bling. I like the infotainment system on this Indian bike and it doesn't look half bad... but I own too many Harley jackets and T-shirts...lol...to switch teams now...and the the HD aftermarket makes it fun to upgrade....Indians are cool but just not as cool or as fun as owning a HD...I'll always ride a Harley even though there might be better things out there...like there has been for a long time...I used to ride Crotch rockets. Mine is still comfortable and itwill run with the best touring bike out there, i'm sure...and I made it mine/myself...I'm not sure I could do that with an Indian. It still seems like a nice bike though and if I was s getting into the lsport/ifestyle right now, I might start here...but it's too late for me. Although HD has been disappointing lately.
I have the Indian Chieftain Elite 2018 116ci its a great bike.
Are they going to make one in that series that looks like a street glide that is what I ride now don't a fan of the fixed faring
Great video, need to try out one of these.
Problem is they only make 250. When I called my local Indian dealer network to try to buy one the dealer knowing full well that they could not get it kept trying to get me to come in to 'discuss my options' while refusing to confirm if they could get this bike for me or not. Had my buddy try the same thing in GA and they pulled the same crap. Indian is shady AF
150
For me, my Harley Davidson CVO is not the best motorcycle because then I could ride a BMW GS. But harley davidson embodies a lifestyle and passion. You watch a CVO and all worries are forgotten. For me, Indian cannot embody that feeling. Greetings from Germany.
Seems like a better deal but it can't compare to the look/style of the Harley Road Glide.
And HD has the soul that Indian seems to be missing
Great video! I totally agree, the Indian is a much better motorcycle for the money. But, in this price range the $6,000 probably won`t make a difference, all depends what style you prefer. Either way it`s big money! That being said, I love everything about the Indian Challenger, except for that gaudy looking fairing. 😎
To each his own. The fairing is one of the selling points for me.
675 Harley dealers in the US and 197 Indian dealers. If access to a dealer for emergency repairs when touring wasn’t a concern I’d be riding BMW’s. Harley really supports their customers in that way and that’s why I always stick with the brand.
If I got to choose a bike that has the largest dealer network because they know its going to break, what does that say.
And touring, it's always a 3 week wait..trip over.
Amazing bikes right out of the box! Put an exhaust on it and go! That’s the thing with the new Indian bikes you don’t need all the aftermarket stuff to make it right! The next thing you will here is dealer network is lacking completely disagree I think over 300 dealers now and even in rural Pa I have three within an hour of me. Quite frankly don’t need them change the one oil and ride and I have 75,000 miles on three different bikes.
I like BMWs and Honda GWs too but not enough to sway me. Both will stomp an HD and probably this Indian too. It 's all about what you like.
There is new Harley street glide and Road glide coming with suspension and more upgrades this year. Also I like the new Honda Neowing ( not sure when that will be ready). This bike that you discussed surely is more value - especially the suspension which so important. I just went the other day and took seat on a new street glide - you think it should glide but it will not- it’s got the flint stone suspension man- nothing moves except your bones😅😅.
Your talking about the st models they get a performance suspension and a 117 motor they came out in 22
@@garrettpeterson3676 no bro. Harley is launching an updated and redesigned version this year for both street glide and road glide. Probably the CVO version. It will be expensive though.
@@cisa1622 oh yea I’ve already seen those the new fairing for that road glide is hideous
@@garrettpeterson3676 too soon bro. I think H-D has always been very thoughtful about how their bikes look. It must be the weird camera angle or camera.
@@cisa1622 you maybe right only time will tell
As a Harley owner, I have to admit the Indian is a far more superior bike in almost every aspect. I think the paint is much better on a Harley. If there just was more Indian dealers around I would have bought an Indian 1st Closest dealership to me is over 70 miles away, so if you ever needed any warranty work it would just be so much harder to get done. Also the aftermarket to customize your Harley is night and day compared to customizing a Indian.
Resale value goes to Harley all day every day too
the only reason to customise a Harley, is the fact that after you've spent $25 grand on a motorcycle, it needs another $10 grand to make it rideable, whilst Indian, or any other motorcycle doesn't... cause HD is a cult, no brains needed to follow it
70 miles is too far for a dream bike? Huh.
@@bradforester3635 did i hurt your feelings, snowflake? Trump loves poorly educated
@@czarekp3552 There isn't a motorcycle rider on this planet that doesn't customize their bike. If you ride, you always search for more... I've customized and added performance to every bike (dirt bike, moped, scooter) I owned since I was 15.
Great video…but the nostalgia of the Harley CVO will always be at the top of the food chain
I love the Elite looks. My co-worker owns one. He can't get over how comfortable this bike is. I own 2020 Goldwing DCT Tour and its not going anywhere anytime soon, but my eyes are opening to an Indian Challenger. HD needs to watch out. They are getting crushed in a vise day by day. Indian............GOOD JOB !!!
Love those Indian motorcycles ❣️
They just keep getting better and better 👍
I put a deposit on a pursuit 3 months ago. I walked into the dealership ready to ride one off the lot. Didn't need some time to come up with money. Didn't need my wife's permission. I was ready to go. I test road the challenger when they first came out. Yes, they are a better motorcycle. They are made by a vastly inferior company. My 4-6 week lead time turned into 3-5 months. Between the time I put my deposit on the Pursuit, and now, I had troubles with my Street Glide. Harley is awesome. They are huge, and they are strong. I just got back from a 3500 mile round trip to SD. My HD dealership did backflips to get my bike ready for that trip on time. While in SD I got in and out of a dealership in two hours with a fresh set of tires. There were probably 50 dealers that could have done the same thing for me on the way to and from Detroit. When I got home from that trip, I called my Indian salesman and explained the facts. Indian told me 4-6 weeks. That turned into an apology and 3-5 months. Sure it's a cool bike. Polaris is a bush league manufacturer though. If they can't make the bike for me, how will they help me keep it together. I've done 80k miles in the last 4 years. Indian is not ready for a rider like me.
I like all brands
And have owned both.
There both amazing machines.
On a Harley now
Hopefully they come up with more color options for the elite… blue is ok but not my favorite color
Sweet. I love both Indian n Harley. I just always choose Harley tho haha.
Meh my buddies indian quit on a big trip. was a real fun killer. Ill take low tech HD. I need to cross the Rockies, not wait for flatbeds and dream of Cold beers.
Cvo resale much better hands down. But nice bike.
How do you figure? The Challenger has only been out a few years.
Yeah, but when you buy a CVO, you still have to upgrade the suspension, add LED's and then slap a stage 2 on it. May have more resale value, but you also have to pay a lot more.
Maybe you should know what your talking about. Cvo s all come w all led s. I’ve owned a06 victory hammer. Loved. Then a 2012 cross country loved. But cruise control system failed after warranty then the stereo took a shit!! Victory Indian use lit of same parts. Fit finish and electrical systems suck on Polaris. My 2016 cvo has all and yes I put 2 k in my suspension but it bad boy now.
@@chadvanhorn4866 Still overpriced for what you get. And they still have the same issues as any other Harley when it comes to mechanical issues. Hell, I can just type my weight on the Ride Command screen and my suspension adjusts for me. Yes, the only issue i'm having is with Apple Carplay. Other than that, no issues at all. And I have yet to go on a road trip without someone's Harley breaking down.
@@DJGENOTYPE cvo s have screaming eagle parts that are upgrades to a normal Harley!! Clutch, engine. Mines a 16 normal Harley 103 ci. Cvo 110 all screaming eagle but I have up upgraded 117. 13k only put battery in it. And cvo s are built by one too two peeps and not on the assembly line. In the screaming eagle building.
All the gadgets are nice! But I dont need them. I ride a Heritage and a Road King they have everything I need. I have nothing at all against Indian. I really like the Springfield! But the lack of dealerships when you are on a road trip would stop me from owning one. Good video!
So you don’t need excellence in suspension, brakes and handling??? 🤣
@@GraemeBlore I'm very happy with all that on my bike. But what do you do when your bike breaks down and your nearest indian dealer is a few hundred miles away?
@@yankinoz1956, probably what we would do in Australia, where we can be literally thousands of k's from a dealer. PRAY!
@@GraemeBlore yep I'm in Perth I've ridden to Philip Island and back
Nice review keep up the good work HegShot
I think that paint job came from Harleys Apex paint scheme. Which is impressive. I would take a new Harley or a new Indian without complaint. In some places where your service is limited you need to like and feel comfortable with your dealer. Also a factor. Most people can do basic maintenance. It depends on your budget what speaks to you and what feels comfortable.
Finally some form of electronic suspension.
My next bike as well. But not the Elite, way over my budget.
This bike looks amazing!
Harley offers new fancy paint names every year. Competition offers paint, more horsepower, and more electronics every year. People end up buying used Harley’s vs new ones because of the above. The motor company needs to sell new bikes and change their present marketing model. Car brands offer just a little bit more horsepower every year. Many bikes approaching and passing the $20,000 point. CVO’s approaching or over $40,000 point. With Covid we became use to overpaying on depreciating liabilities like cars and motorcycles. With increasing interest rates, recession, and sales brilliance of Tesla discounting thousands, people have awakened where is my discount. Indian giving more what public expects. No need stage 2-4. Nice job Indian
Not even close to a CVO!! It’s not just about speed. In most cases if you speed even on a Harley you’re getting a ticket.
I was debating between the Challenger and a RG. The Harley salesman told me to buy the Indian
Oh oh boy. Wait till you have to have it worked on. Got rid of mine immediately and went straight back to the hd
Nice looking bike but there just aren't enough Indian dealers in the country. Would hate getting stuck somewhere hundreds of miles away from the nearest Indian dealer!
Unfortunately Indian dealerships are minimal. Love the bike but support is limited.
Harley is feeling the heat…..if you look at the leaked pictures for their 2023 line up….they are looking at Indian for sure…
Don’t do it. They are great bikes, but so is a Gold Wing. It’s not a Harley Davidson though. I had a Indian Chieftain Dark Horse for 4 years and the fit and finish does not hold up either. In the end it is not close to a Harley. Just my thoughts, ride what you want.
The Challenger looks pretty well build. Maybe they have improved their fit and finish.
It’s not really a build quality issue, it’s a materials issue… The plastics on the Cowell and the bag are most peoples complaints
While a different type of ride, my 2016 Springfield has held up well with nothing failing mechanically or cosmetically. Like cars, all bikes are prone to various issues, especially new releases.
My 2022 Challenger had a lot of fit and finish issues. Those grey saddle bag guards popped off (they are held on by tiny glue dots), the paint was too soft (lots of scrapes in it), the power windshield switch fell off all the time, and one of the saddlebag latches won't engage all the time. Plus, the grips were cheap, hard plastic. I don't have any problems like that on my HDs. Ultimately, I traded it in because mine also had a lot of electrical problems.
@@autobarry he swapped to a different Indian and loves it
Ive actually got a deposit on a 23 challenger elite. Still waiting for the dealer to get it in.
I'd buy the Indian to be different - then of course, it's a better bike.
I want a 22 elite mainly love the paint on that better but she's sharp none the less but I don't like blue mainly lmao
I'll keep my 2018 FLTRU thanks
I just can’t over the dash on those Challengers. Otherwise, nice bikes.