I 100% agree with you that complexity creep has gotten out of hand. Unfortunately the key to understanding the Schism interaction with Dual Strike is that Winter Cordelia re-applies Dual Strike at the same time that Embla is cleansing herself of Schism. So this is a "new" Dual Strike status effect and is now active as Schism was cleansed. Potent 4 and Laguz Friend 4 are basically incomprehensible without seeing them in action. One skill description that always makes me giggle is Weaving/Canny Fighter. In the first line it says foe cannot make a follow up attack, and then in the next line you get extra DR based on if the foe can make a follow up attack... if you don't know FEH's mechanics that well, the skill makes no sense.
I think this is genuinely hilarious because in the mainline games weapons don’t have all these complexities and paragraphs underneath them. Like the Falchion was originally just an elixir with 10 might
I believe Embla clears [Schism] effect because it is a [status effect] cleared by Severance. An end turn > dance movement doesn't clear the [status effect], it only grants another movement. I could be totally wrong, though
[schism] Neutralizes triangle attack, dual strike, and pathfinder effects active on unit through unit’s next action. Unit is excluded from ally triangle attack and dual strike effects that are calculated using numbers of allies. When [schism] is neutralized, triangle attack, dual strike, and pathfinder effects are also neutralized. [status effect] A buff or debuff (not including visible stat buffs/debuffs) gained by unit’s skills, ally’s skills, or inflicted by foe’s skills (like +1 movement or gravity). Press the like button to hide definitions.
Skills should be written in the same fashion PM1s too long didnt read slides are made. Easy and clear to understand. The ammount of text they put in those skills is beyond absurdity and if you pile it up with how complex the game keeps getting you end up making it impossible for newer players to actually understand anything at all and keep on playing... Anyway... "Negligent Systems" should be the companys name...
I think what's confusing is that there's clearly an effort to make things easier to understand in the trailers but not in the game, because in the trailers they actually put the skill descriptions in individual separate paragraphs and stuff, but in the game itself it's just a wall of text, and they also started putting those shortened descriptions giving you a summary of what the units does after they show the skills off in the trailer
@@lori2738 I watch the trailers in a pc and play the game in the phone, the difference of screen sizes may be responsible for that maybe. Still I think the way the skills are explained is a massive fail on the developers side. It makes no sense at all when you can just put it in laymans terms, like PM1 does. A youtuber does a better job than the developers, kinda crazy XD
I stil think the most broken thing is that you can with the fence actually fake a bait and let it proc the turn after, but yeah, complexity creep is actually catching up on FEH to the point where it is making things really hard to follow
I used to be a dolphin spender, but it's specifically because of complexity creep that I barely spend anything anymore: it doesn't feel worth it when you're buying something, expecting X based on your interpretation, only to receive Y under unknown circumstances. I feel like this, combined with the absurd pace of powercreep will kill the game, but I suppose only time will tell.
Embla’s Severance as the comments say. Try the same thing with Safy or an Odd/Even Recovery and see what happens I was confused at first too, thought you found a bug
Ngl, it took me some time to figure out how Potent Follow works until I see it in practice because I didn't ever feel like turning on Display Skill Keywords again after the update and it was a new effect at the time.
In short, Sety discovers that the SoT (Start of Turn) is a very broken mechanic and thinks it through for a bit. Obviously, most of this video is very moot for 2 reasons if you go dig a bit further than this: 1. We've been playing with the SoT and its nonsense since day 1 basically. These weird looking interactions pertaining to start of turn mechanics aren't anything new at all we just don't really realize it until we have levin's epiphany where you like, think it through and realize that this mess is super complicated. It's fine, we've been doing this for basically all of AR's lifespan for the most part. 2. Hidden mechanics where you just can't guess the outcome were part of FEH on day 1 and super important in the form of... arena scoring. Yeah arena scoring is super dumb. Either you looked it up or use a calculator there's basically no in-between here. In fact, I actually guessed pre-release on the trailer drop that Schism and Odd Recovery skills would interact this way with each other because I had enough knowledge on the start of turn from outside sources. But yeah, this is same old for the most part tbh.
Hmm. I would like to disagree with you. I think the complexity has gotten deeper since... not even year 1, but... say since year 4 maybe lol. To be super specific though @ SoT. I don't think SoT mechanics was this deep year 1. Can you elaborate or clarify my misunderstanding of your message?
@@rinkusan978 start of turn mechanics have largely only really changed with the introduction of Aether Raids when the Bolt Tower, Healing Tower and Catapult really since launch which added extra phases to the start of turn. Basically, at any point in time since book 4 or so released, the realization that start of turn is a completely messed up and absurdly complex mechanic with under the hood mechanics was a reasonable realization to make tbh. Catapult triggers first, the pre start of turn happens (penalty neutralization and checks for Élimine's false start happen here), then start of turn effects trigger, then post start of turn triggers, then another start of turn check happens exclusive to healing/damage effects triggers again (Odd/Even Recovery actually have 2 separate activations per phase). How AI interacts with all of this as seen in the vid has basically been a problem since AR released and resources like the AI guide did a lot of work in helping us understand. The start of turn isn't really a new problem is my point anywho in how insanely complicated it is. It's just that more people are starting to notice for one reason or another.
I’m pretty sure he knew already that start of turn mechanics are a mess. It’s just that these newer skills are interacting with the start of turn mechanics in much more nuanced ways that before. This is definitely not a “day 1” issue lol no one cared that threaten def procced before renewal.
My 'confusing skill description' thing these days is first attack DR effects where they break down the difference between an attack and a strike. A brave attack has 2 strikes and the DR applies to both strikes. But why are they only specifying it now and using prf text to explain it? Did old first attack DR not apply to second strikes and its only modern units that protect against the second strike? I wish there was some rulebook of effects elsewhere in game so that skills didnt have so much noise
If I had to go for simple guesses as to why each thing happened; 1) Embla likely removes Schism *prior to* recieveing the buffs that Schism would cancel, similar to her interaction with NY!Seidr 2) The fence worked because the 'ignore terrain' buff was not givin to Gullveg from Citrinne until *after* the fence had already triggered. You can kind of see that in the replay with the visuals, between the chains and the danger area size. As some others said, this seems to be a result of them creating so many things that happen 'between' and 'at the beginning of' turns.
@@AceBountyHunterRex Yeah, the issue for Levin in this situation is that there were 2 units [D!Chrom and D!Kagero] who were 'in range' while outside of the fence. 6:26
I... from a chaotic standpoint... kinda like that we've really reached yu-gi-oh levels of comprehension reading. To think I ignored FEH during the first one or two years because it was so simplistic compared to the mainline games. Then I loved it for becoming more complex than the main games. And now it's ridiculous.
what happened to this game… I remember Hector was the meta with armada and counerattack and that’s it.. a big bulky guy that could attack from any range not all this wording bullshit With X+Y= Go Fuck my Ass and then Shipp the cow
Oh no, this is a very real tested interaction let me tell you that. The salt coming out of that one reddit post I made that one time after heather came out when people realized that Odd/Even recovery could cleanse schism like that was very funny.
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I 100% agree with you that complexity creep has gotten out of hand. Unfortunately the key to understanding the Schism interaction with Dual Strike is that Winter Cordelia re-applies Dual Strike at the same time that Embla is cleansing herself of Schism. So this is a "new" Dual Strike status effect and is now active as Schism was cleansed. Potent 4 and Laguz Friend 4 are basically incomprehensible without seeing them in action. One skill description that always makes me giggle is Weaving/Canny Fighter. In the first line it says foe cannot make a follow up attack, and then in the next line you get extra DR based on if the foe can make a follow up attack... if you don't know FEH's mechanics that well, the skill makes no sense.
I think this is genuinely hilarious because in the mainline games weapons don’t have all these complexities and paragraphs underneath them. Like the Falchion was originally just an elixir with 10 might
Levin, looks like you failed your FEH bar exam 😂
Have you tried turning FEH off and on again?
I believe Embla clears [Schism] effect because it is a [status effect] cleared by Severance. An end turn > dance movement doesn't clear the [status effect], it only grants another movement. I could be totally wrong, though
Genuinely forgot that was a part of Severance, I always just think about it in terms of Undefended
Embla also clears Lyon's forced end turn if she is the target of it.
[schism]
Neutralizes triangle attack, dual strike, and pathfinder effects active on unit through unit’s next action. Unit is excluded from ally triangle attack and dual strike effects that are calculated using numbers of allies. When [schism] is neutralized, triangle attack, dual strike, and pathfinder effects are also neutralized.
[status effect]
A buff or debuff (not including visible stat buffs/debuffs) gained by unit’s skills, ally’s skills, or inflicted by foe’s skills (like +1 movement or gravity).
Press the like button to hide definitions.
Skills should be written in the same fashion PM1s too long didnt read slides are made. Easy and clear to understand.
The ammount of text they put in those skills is beyond absurdity and if you pile it up with how complex the game keeps getting you end up making it impossible for newer players to actually understand anything at all and keep on playing...
Anyway... "Negligent Systems" should be the companys name...
I think what's confusing is that there's clearly an effort to make things easier to understand in the trailers but not in the game, because in the trailers they actually put the skill descriptions in individual separate paragraphs and stuff, but in the game itself it's just a wall of text, and they also started putting those shortened descriptions giving you a summary of what the units does after they show the skills off in the trailer
@@lori2738 I watch the trailers in a pc and play the game in the phone, the difference of screen sizes may be responsible for that maybe.
Still I think the way the skills are explained is a massive fail on the developers side. It makes no sense at all when you can just put it in laymans terms, like PM1 does.
A youtuber does a better job than the developers, kinda crazy XD
Feh be coherent challenge:
IMPOSSIBLE
I stil think the most broken thing is that you can with the fence actually fake a bait and let it proc the turn after, but yeah, complexity creep is actually catching up on FEH to the point where it is making things really hard to follow
I used to be a dolphin spender, but it's specifically because of complexity creep that I barely spend anything anymore: it doesn't feel worth it when you're buying something, expecting X based on your interpretation, only to receive Y under unknown circumstances. I feel like this, combined with the absurd pace of powercreep will kill the game, but I suppose only time will tell.
Embla’s Severance as the comments say. Try the same thing with Safy or an Odd/Even Recovery and see what happens
I was confused at first too, thought you found a bug
Ngl, it took me some time to figure out how Potent Follow works until I see it in practice because I didn't ever feel like turning on Display Skill Keywords again after the update and it was a new effect at the time.
In short, Sety discovers that the SoT (Start of Turn) is a very broken mechanic and thinks it through for a bit.
Obviously, most of this video is very moot for 2 reasons if you go dig a bit further than this:
1. We've been playing with the SoT and its nonsense since day 1 basically. These weird looking interactions pertaining to start of turn mechanics aren't anything new at all we just don't really realize it until we have levin's epiphany where you like, think it through and realize that this mess is super complicated. It's fine, we've been doing this for basically all of AR's lifespan for the most part.
2. Hidden mechanics where you just can't guess the outcome were part of FEH on day 1 and super important in the form of... arena scoring. Yeah arena scoring is super dumb. Either you looked it up or use a calculator there's basically no in-between here.
In fact, I actually guessed pre-release on the trailer drop that Schism and Odd Recovery skills would interact this way with each other because I had enough knowledge on the start of turn from outside sources.
But yeah, this is same old for the most part tbh.
Hmm. I would like to disagree with you. I think the complexity has gotten deeper since... not even year 1, but... say since year 4 maybe lol.
To be super specific though @ SoT. I don't think SoT mechanics was this deep year 1. Can you elaborate or clarify my misunderstanding of your message?
@@rinkusan978 start of turn mechanics have largely only really changed with the introduction of Aether Raids when the Bolt Tower, Healing Tower and Catapult really since launch which added extra phases to the start of turn.
Basically, at any point in time since book 4 or so released, the realization that start of turn is a completely messed up and absurdly complex mechanic with under the hood mechanics was a reasonable realization to make tbh.
Catapult triggers first, the pre start of turn happens (penalty neutralization and checks for Élimine's false start happen here), then start of turn effects trigger, then post start of turn triggers, then another start of turn check happens exclusive to healing/damage effects triggers again (Odd/Even Recovery actually have 2 separate activations per phase).
How AI interacts with all of this as seen in the vid has basically been a problem since AR released and resources like the AI guide did a lot of work in helping us understand.
The start of turn isn't really a new problem is my point anywho in how insanely complicated it is.
It's just that more people are starting to notice for one reason or another.
I’m pretty sure he knew already that start of turn mechanics are a mess. It’s just that these newer skills are interacting with the start of turn mechanics in much more nuanced ways that before. This is definitely not a “day 1” issue lol no one cared that threaten def procced before renewal.
My 'confusing skill description' thing these days is first attack DR effects where they break down the difference between an attack and a strike. A brave attack has 2 strikes and the DR applies to both strikes. But why are they only specifying it now and using prf text to explain it? Did old first attack DR not apply to second strikes and its only modern units that protect against the second strike?
I wish there was some rulebook of effects elsewhere in game so that skills didnt have so much noise
If something says “first attack” without the bonus text, yes, it truly only applies to the actual first attack, not the Brave hit.
@@infantrypulse I wish they went back to the older descriptions and called those effects 'first strike DR' instead of calling them attacks still
Not sure why brave attacks weren't just treated like normal attacks from the start.
Fire emblem math heroes , im bout to just go back to the og’s on my gameboy cause man this is ridiculous
I get it on Laguz friend, but they should have play tested and figured out the 2 CD error pretty quickly
If I had to go for simple guesses as to why each thing happened;
1) Embla likely removes Schism *prior to* recieveing the buffs that Schism would cancel, similar to her interaction with NY!Seidr
2) The fence worked because the 'ignore terrain' buff was not givin to Gullveg from Citrinne until *after* the fence had already triggered. You can kind of see that in the replay with the visuals, between the chains and the danger area size.
As some others said, this seems to be a result of them creating so many things that happen 'between' and 'at the beginning of' turns.
Shouldn't being in range not matter though since the fence ends turn 1 for the enemy team? Assuming your in range of the fence obviously.
@@AceBountyHunterRex Yeah, the issue for Levin in this situation is that there were 2 units [D!Chrom and D!Kagero] who were 'in range' while outside of the fence. 6:26
@@thatsstrategykagero was in range chrom wasn't. But ya guess it triggers before the extra range was given. Start of turn is wild it seems.
I... from a chaotic standpoint... kinda like that we've really reached yu-gi-oh levels of comprehension reading.
To think I ignored FEH during the first one or two years because it was so simplistic compared to the mainline games. Then I loved it for becoming more complex than the main games. And now it's ridiculous.
what happened to this game… I remember Hector was the meta with armada and counerattack and that’s it.. a big bulky guy that could attack from any range not all this wording bullshit With X+Y= Go Fuck my Ass and then Shipp the cow
And i thought yugioh wording was bad looking at this…
Celica outsped dimitri and had a desperation effect @LetsplaySety based on the buffs active. She didn't triangle but just doubled.
Oh no, this is a very real tested interaction let me tell you that. The salt coming out of that one reddit post I made that one time after heather came out when people realized that Odd/Even recovery could cleanse schism like that was very funny.
In the trailer for Emblem Ike they present the text for laguz friend relatively well but then in game its just a big block of unreadable text.