Why The Doctors Want 35% | Full Pay Restoration Explained
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- Опубликовано: 31 мар 2023
- Let's take a deep dive into the numbers behind full pay restoration and explain what the striking junior doctors (like me) actually want.
National Payscales for Junior Doctors: www.bma.org.uk/pay-and-contra...
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Great Video Ollie! Next, let's drop the "Junior" label. We're just doctors.
Noted, and quite agree
agree
Some doctors are less experienced than others.
@@taffyterrier Of course they are. That doesn't mean that junior is the right term to describe them.
Then get on with doctoring instead of holding the country to ransom. Huge respect to all in the medical community, but if the pays so bad, become a vet?
ST8 after 12 yrs earning that tiny much is painful!
Consultants are going to start their IA soon, I guess.
Very well done video.
As a medical student it frustrates that anyone would argue against pay restoration for overworked, essential junior doctors who literally save lives on a daily basis. Those who genuinely believe 14/hour is justified should try doing a shift themselves and then see if they still hold the same opinion
No - underworked, dispensable junior whingers who literally take lives on a daily basis.
So true. Like when your rota coordinators give you a 60 hour week but struggle to reply to emails in a timely fashion. Would love to see them to it. I doubt Steve Barclay has ever worked a 12.5 solid work day in his life
oh come ON. You knew about the workload. You knew about the pay scale. You chose to become a doctor. Junior doctors get £29-34k plus extra for anything over 40h a week plus 37% uplift for nights weekends and on-call. You lot are all on 50 - 100k+ within a few years! Yes, you work hard, that's why over the course or your careers you're some of the best-paid people in the country - in fact, pay at the top end is way too high. Stop moaning and get back to work.
@@StrangeAttractor if they now say they want to move to Australia soon after graduating they should have applied to study medicine in Australia instead of accepting the free taxpayer funded “education” in this country then ****ing off without paying back a penny of the money British taxpayers invested in them.
@@StrangeAttractor please don’t comment on a profession, commitment and sacrifice you know nothing about. We don’t just work hard, we leave about 60k in debt, work 60 hour weeks regularly, are constantly understaffed, carry about three bleeps and it’s not just ‘hard work’, we have people’s lives depend on us. Don’t comment on something you have absolutely not the foggiest idea about and let us stand up for what we are worth without people like you thinking your doctors are worth struggling to pay their bills month on end.
Great video! ❤ Thanks for voicing it out soo nicely!
Glad you liked it!
I saw you video of spen nib replacement..but the link which you gave in description is not working can you please reply alternative of tab s6 lite pen..
As a 5th Yr foreign UK medical student studying in Bulgaria it gives me a lot to think about whether I want to come to the NHS, it’s shocking really
Why are you studying in Bulgaria?
@@taffyterrier because he didn't get the grades to go to any UK medical school
@@electri2024 but these days anyone of average intelligence can get the grades to go to a UK medical school.
@@taffyterrier as a uk medical student, I disagree. You need top A-level and GCSEs, need to get a top score in the entrance exams too. I myself attained 2A*s and an A in my A-levels and received a UCAT score within the top 10% of the national cohort. Yet I only managed to be accepted into 2 medical schools of the 4 I applied to.
@@electri2024 It is well documented that a grade A in what passes for an “A level” these days is the equivalent of a grade D at A level in the 1970s.
Agree with everything! Starting as an F1 in august. I would love to see a comparison with how the average purchasing power in the UK has also gone down since 2008, for non-state salaries. I guess the government or public could argue that we can't get a pay restoration above what everyone else got... I don't know if I explained myself clearly.
Also, I'd want to know how much restoring pay would cost the government, in total (nurses and other staff included)...
Great job with all the campaigning! You rock
No one has an automatic entitlement to index linked pay rises.
@@taffyterrier No one has an automatic entitlement to other peoples labour either
@@taffyterrier Only the Old Pensioners it would seem under Triple lock!
We stand by our junior doctors ❤
Speak for yourself.
Your presentations are very informative and interesting. I am an American and the one thing that really stands out to me is that socialized medicine has and is continuing to make you slaves of the state.
No - parasites of the state.
@@taffyterrier Taffy you comment a lot on my videos, which is fine, thank you for driving the algorithm and giving me more views. I get the sense that you've had some poor experience with doctors previously, for which I'm genuinely sorry, but you seem to really not like us. Despite your comments indicating that you don't seem to understand especially well what we do, or how hard we work. If you want to have a proper dialogue you're very welcome to and we can chat somehow, but from my perspective you constantly react negatively to whatever people write here. Is there anything that I or any other doctor can do to try and explain things more clearly or come to a more constructive way of interacting?
@@OllieBurtonMed It's probably because socialised medicine only works when the state restrains itself to spending only what it collects in tax revenue, otherwise you end up with a government that goes into debt to fund the public sector and corrupt officials, suppressing the interest rates to prop this up- causing resource misallocation and economic stagnation until the rates have to rise to fix that problem in the real economy. At this point economic reality is government has to spend not much more than actual tax revenue and a large chunk of that, instead of going to pay doctors like it would have, it is going to pay the interest payments from government debt in the past.
The reality is that if the people did not allow governments to spend more than they collect in taxes, interest rates could never have been suppressed like they were and the economy would be in much better shape, the real economy would have grown much more rapidly, real productivity risen, tax revenues been higher and doctors and other public workers would have much better incomes. But because you keep voting for grand schemes that require borrowing, you deny yourself that.
@@OllieBurtonMed The actual increase the public sector can receive until the real economy is growing at above a couple of percent is going to be negative in real terms and that's just due to the economic reality, and it will take many years of higher rates for growth to return to actually boost living standards for public sector workers as it takes time for companies go bankrupt and those assets be taken over by more productive companies.
Hey Ollie, long time listener first time caller. Why are you using the JD label? Can we move past it pls. Particularly in a video about layperson understanding, it causes such confusion.
Coming next Danny! Video paired with this one that's going into what the term means and why it's unhelpful. I don't use it at work anymore and urge others not to do so.
Junior whinger would be more appropriate.
So pay restoration aross all industries dont matter?. Junior docs are in training, in 5 years from now salary will be double +. Not sure why the medical field is a special case.
Police are not allowed to strike.
Armed services are not allowed to strike.
Prison officers are not allowed to strike.
But doctors are allowed to strike.
The government makes the medical field a special case.
Well done for explaining the maths in a clear way. Unfortunately few of the general public really understand %s. My son is a consultant now and I tutor maths, and understand, but most only hear 35%. Maybe a graph to show how pay has fallen behind inflation year on year would help.
Doctors have not suffered any real terms pay cuts.
fullfact.org/economy/governments-pay-rise-public-sector-workers-real-terms-pay-cut/
here you are big man
As it has for every single person, with the possible exception of politicians.
@@davidjames3080 again you’re full of shit, in the private sector real term pay is only down about 2.5% as a whole, only public sector workers have seen this level of fall and doctors more than anyone which is absolutely clear from the circulating graphics and data.
@@TheMaster47x Public sector employees have received bigger percentage pay rises than private sector workers.
Hi Ollie, I've just sent you an email regarding an awareness campaign for junior doctors that's i'd love to get you involved with. Let me know what you think!
I’m hoping to do residency in America so good look guys 😂
@Butter Milk American doctors have to work hard for their money.
Hey! I'm hoping so too! Are you a medical student in the UK?
The fact that we haven't asked for the arrears over the years is the biggest and only concession will make.
That is finished business - you have no right to inflation proofed pay rises.
@@taffyterrier we want it though, so we're striking to get it
@@OllieBurtonMed and inconveniencing patients with possible fatal consequences in pursuit of backdated inflationary pay increases which every other public sector worker (including doctors) accepted at the time were unaffordable.
@@taffyterrier Fatal is an interesting word to choose, as the evidence suggests that doctor strikes have little to no effect on mortality. So I'd be interested to know where your information is coming from.
Earning close to 30k a year and in training, Puzzled why all the anarchy
A first year medical graduate trainee is paid over £40k when all the add-ons are taken into account.
Wish there was not all the bull, 120K is more then enough
Are there many pre consultant doctors on 120K that you've come across?
being real with u mr olive oil; I find it rather lumpacious how people do not understand that the pay restoration % would be higher than the pay wage decrease %. ofc it’s higher because u have a lower value than u did before so u need to increase it by a higher percentage to get back what was lost…. girlypop society is not it 🎉😊😊😂😊❤
so true bestie I find that this ‘Ayaan Kasif’ ☑️☑️🍞 person is a very well educated and intellectual person because he said something that I completely agree with. I feel like I have the right to comment on such an issue because I 😂😂 and I feel that society is indeed🛐🙏 not it girlypop. 😂😂❤❤❤❤😅😮😊😊 lots of love xoxo xoxo xox 😃🥖
edit: duck fat is made by killing ducks and not making them run on a treadmill what the actual hell 😢😢😢😢
Nothing has been lost.
Doctors pay has increased.
I have a question..... Why didn't they ask labour in 2009/10 to address inflation then??
For 14 years between 2008 and 2022 they accepted below inflation pay rises without complaint - that is finished business.
Then suddenly in 2023 they expect the government to retrospectively reverse 15 years of pay awards at one fell swoop - that is unprecedented and should be treated with the contempt it deserves.
Not all heroes come in capes - god help our NHS
Heroes my arse.
Your monitor setup looks incredible
Thank you! Works great for what I need it for
I agree with what your saying but if the strikes on the railway have proven anything is that this will live and die in the court of public support, the BMA are seemingly walking a very fine line. Fingers crossed for success.
What has public opinion got to do with anythiing? Why does it matter if the public supports doctors or not?
Let’s support our doctors!! If you support football teams with all your heart, why not support the more important people?!
Football teams are more important than doctors.
Why do you never mention everything you get say pension at least 20.6% pension contribution factor that in as private sector
can only dream of it.
Stop making out you are extraordinary because if a lot of people didn’t do their jobs society would fall apart.
Just imagine supermarket workers going on strike it would be chaos. Stop using the current climate as a norm it’s not everyone is struggling.
You get more pay we pay.
👏👏👏👏
Interesting how Mr Burton dose not factor into his sums the other benefits Junior Doctors receive, such as a superb index linked public sector pension pot. How come?
Because Dr Burton can't pay his rent with an index linked pension
@@OllieBurtonMed Sorry, Dr Burton (my apologies for previously addressing you incorrectly) Key workers in the NHS have access to Key worker designated flats, that run well below market rate from given taxpayer subsidies.
@@peters6188 They do, but I also don't think the fact they exist is a good argument for lowering my pay. I might not want to live there, and having stayed in a few of them, they're not great. If accomodation was built into my contract then sure (it used to be for doctors) but isn't now.
So they should be satisfied with crap pay because in 40 years they can make it rain?
@@john50beach18 excellent rates of pay for a trainee apprentice.
hope they strike til they come to a agreement been long overdue had dvt unprovked xmas junior doctors where spot on
Really sorry to hear about your DVT Peter. Happy that you felt well looked after though and hope you're feeling better!
I sympathize with doctors but a few things need to be kept in mind:
Nobody's wages are currently at their peak purchasing power, nothing special about doctors pay falling behind the recent inflation
Most junior doctors didn't sign up to be doctors when real wages were at their peak. They knew the going rate at the time, they should fight to get back to that level, not to some peak it was at while they were still in high school.
Lol.
Good luck with that.
Small Scotland can afford 14.5% NHS pay increase, BOO to England meagre 5% NHS minimum pay rise 😷
Where’s the money coming from?
Where is this 'nice caring government' you put into your equation?
Wrapped nice and cosy in layers of thinly veiled sarcasm
Have you ever questioned the credibility of your employer?
Maybe time to change employer?
No other such employer exists. The NHS has a monopoly on medical training
@@OllieBurtonMed that sounds like bullying.
Im so sorry for your plight
@@abdulrahman31350 If they don’t want to work for the NHS they should apply to study medicine in the country they would like to work in.
@@taffyterrier
Or get rid of the nhs. Its a scam anyway lets face it
Noooooooooo! matter of fact reduce income of Attending m.d.s as well!!! Respect you patients, end your corruption THEN YOU CAN ASK FOR A RAISE!!!!
35% really do one don't think doctor and nurses will get claps ever again
OK man thanks for boosting the algorithm
Maybe not ..but you probably need someone...when YOU get the clap don't you? 😉
@@siddhanthravichandran3245 Doctors are overpaid.
I would give doctors the 35% if they agreed never to work in the private sector later. It is not allowed in any other industry to work in a competitor and that is how Consultants get rich
I suppose the difference or nuance here is that the NHS is public sector. I don't believe any such contracts apply to any other public sector worker (thinking about lawyers say, or teachers) - so how/why would we bind doctors specifically in this way?
For that ...would the public promise never to visit a private doctor?
These private doctors only exist because people want things done quicker and easier....
So to ensure these doctors aren't getting rich....the public can then wait their turn in the NHS.
Simple supply and demand
@@siddhanthravichandran3245 Doctors are overpaid.
@@taffyterrier have fun waiting for 10 hours in the A&E
Mate, divide both sides by 73.9, not X!! GCSE maths brother
well that would have been infinitely more sensible wouldn't it
GCSEasys are for simpletons.
35% for Jnr doctors ( not on the cards )or 8.5million a day for illegal immigrants.. Which works out cheaper per annum 🤔🙄
Junior doctors pay has not been cut.
I'm an ex nurse so I'm totally up for all NHS staff to get a raise but in the current situation 35% is excessive. My husband works really hard in a really manual job and gets if he's lucky 1%. Everyone's suffering
Thanks for your comment Geraldine and thanks for your hard work as a nurse. I'll put it to you then - the starting position is that the doctors need 35% to get back to baseline. If we get less (or ask for less), that doesn't mean that your husband or others like him will necessarily get anything more. The two things aren't linked. Is your husband a member of a union, for example?
Everyone is suffering, so all the more reason for the government to raise wages for public workers, so that the private sector will follow suit. Paying JDs and Nurses would cost the taxpayer 1bn each. Tax Evasion due to loopholes, havens and fraud costs 35bn a year. Closing these loopholes for companies like Starbucks and Amazon would give us that money with more to spare.
We've tried 13 years of spending cuts, budgets tightening, and austerity, and we're worse off than we've been in a long time. If we support each other in a push towards making it better for everyone, rather than "we're suffering so you should too" then things might improve for you and most of the people you know.
@@milofah NHS doctors are among the best paid in Europe.
@@taffyterrier Most of Europe isnt comparable. It's relatively poor. Lets compare NHS doctors to Australia or North America. Or even, lets compare to western Europe.
@@taffyterrier JD's are paid more in; Luxembourg, Ireland, Netherlands, Denmark, Iceland, Germany. France, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Spain, Italy, Portugal, and Greece and Japan. These are our economic peers. Is there any economic peer that I have missed here?
If you need to compare us to developing countries in the EU then you should be using a metric like purchasing power, or ratio of pay between average and JD pay.
Although I concur that junior doctors are under-compensated and merit a salary increase, a 35% raise seems excessive. Being an NHS employee myself, I recognize that our real wages have declined over time. If junior doctors were to receive a 35% hike while other staff members only obtained a 5% raise, this pay imbalance would be severely detrimental to the NHS as a whole.
Then the rest of you shouldn’t have caved so easily, we’re not going to let the rest of you hold us back because you’re happy to accept subpar offers. In any case, Doctor’s pay has declined more than anyone else’s in the hospital, so we are certainly not going to accept 5% or anything remotely close.
Although I see where you're coming from, I'm respectfully not sure I agree with the conclusion. The differential there is about the ability to negotiate and hold labour withdrawal - if the other unions accept a poor offer and the BMA doesn't, and then goes on to get a better offer, I'm not sure I understand why that would be detrimental. It would imply that had the other unions held out they were capable of getting more - and everyone getting more is a good thing. But doctors getting less *because* the other unions got less doesn't help anyone.
If a 35% raise seems excessive then you have to agree a 25% cut is excessive also. It works both ways.
JD's getting 35% doesn't affect anyone but JD's. If they manage to negotiate close to that, all it does is strengthen the case for further pay negotiations across the board.
The UK really needs to get over this whole "I don't want anyone to get anything even slightly better than what I would get".
I once saw a meeting of domestics arguing that porters shouldn't get band 3, because domestics were band 2. There was no talk of making a domestic band 3. They wanted porters to earn less because it made them happier in their own band. Absolute madness.
If we all spent as much time lifting each up, and supporting others cause it would improve things for everyone. Why does the government need to push back on this, when we're happy to sabotage each other?
@Butter Milk In 2016 Jeremy Hunt capitulated to the Bolshevik BMA Mafia and gave them everything they were asking for.
Thought you became doctors TO HELP PEOPLE!!!! if you are depressed get a new JOB!!!
It is interesting that 'help people' has come to be synonymous with 'work for bad pay' isn't it
If helping people paid bills ....that would be perfect.
But unfortunately we live in a system where things cost money rather than kindness.
@@OllieBurtonMed £140k a year is not ‘bad pay’.
Nobody believes RISHEE wants to WORK 🦧