WW3 1983 - NATO vs Warsaw Pact - What would have happened?
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- Year 1983: What would have happened in case of war between NATO and Warsaw Pact? This video is the Part 1, Part 2 and Part 3 combined.
A great thank for the voices to Christopher Lawlor, Collin Powell, Charles Shu. They helped me a lot in the development of the video, with suggestions and ideas.
Musics:
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I'm surprised how many experts are in comment section. Trained, actually forged :) in video games and youtube.
I was in high school at that time so these things were a part of our lives. Sydney had two large nukes aimed at it (Garden Island naval docks and Richmond Airbase).
@@zznug2837 Please don't put words i didn't typed in my lines. If joke insulted you in any way sorry but that really have nothing to do with me.
@@klarens000 Man you are way too easy, showing again that god complex ive pointed out above, something that clearly irritated you. Just a note, you are not the only person on this planet who can guess what someone else is insinuating, not when you are doing it so blatant.
klarens000 Q
Films
When you fall asleep and accidentally leave your HOI4 mod on full speed.
By the thumbnail I thought tha this was HOI4
Haha lol
I mean, if you’re playing a Switzerland, this is probably what’s gonna happen
This man has to have made a NATO vs Warsaw Pact happen in an alternate reality and came back to tell us the outcome
you are one of the few who understood it
Adoro il tuo video 🇮🇹🤬
I love your video 🇺🇸🇬🇧
That's where he got tha videos and pictures
@@zvallid ur so underrated i lov the videos
To be honest, predicting a war, like this would be kind of difficult
That ending with the alternate history Iraq War, that was just... incredibly dark.
"Have fun!"
*Have fun :).*
"Have fun"
"H a v e F u n"
Have fun (;
One of the best “if possible situations” I’ve seen.
Not really - it assumes all the Soviet equipment worked - which history has revealed it wouldn’t
@@Russell-1 lol
@@Russell-1 history reveals that it doesn't work after being in a warehouse for 40 years
@@_S.T.A.L.K.E.R._Agreed. There's no telling how it works when produced.
@@Russell-1 Said equipment still works very well.
The problem is when it is operated by idiots.
WW3 between Capitalists and Socialists.
Winner: nobody
Loser: Germany for the 3rd time.
Who gets caught and destroyed because of the fighting: Poland, for the 3rd time.
Who gets independence? Poland. For the third time
If you check soviet defense plans for the Russian homeland it literally involved a nuclear saturation bombing of their allies without warning in order to create a wall of radiation to stop the Americans. It essentially involved nuclear bombing all of Poland from the sea and down through the Czech's turning them both into a sea of death.
Are you sure about that as Poland didn’t exist before 1918 wasn’t it part of the German empire before 1918
@@pricey130 we did exist before 1918 lmao. Partitions of Poland remember?
Poland's big radioactive holes 😂
That haves sense
When my German mom took me to West Germany in 1984 my uncle pointed out the cavities in major bridges designed specifically for demolition charges in the event of Soviet invasion. It's mind blowing as I reflect I was literally only a few kilometers away from the East German border and Warsaw Pact for that matter. Talking to a fellow GI that was in Berlin and set up radio stations on hills to intercept and track Soviet traffic I asked him what were they supposed to do if an invasion happened. He said "Nothing. The Soviets would simply stick a sign in the ground around Berlin saying 'Worlds Largest POW Camp'.
LITERALLY 1984
All bridges and major harbours in Denmark was and are prepared for demolition too. They could have deployed a company of 100 men to defend Berlin instead of wasting a brigade. The result would have been the same. The difference would have been the damage to the city.
@Tom Servo It’s so awful how many people have been brainwashed by the lie that the Soviet Union was super aggressive and could invade any minute. The actual truth is that the Soviet Union was one of the greatest countries to have ever existed. It was pure free, happiness and prosperity for the working class all in one country.
Dresden: This can't be happening again, can it?
My thoughts when I said that..
One of the most plausible ww3 scenario I ever seen, great work! It's almost like this video was posted from an alternate reality...
HMMMMM, maybe it is...
In an alternate reality:
What if world war III never happened?
I am impresed too, with only a few exceptions. Austria taken by surprise depite the war raging around them for a week. There was 2100 Leopard tanks in Germany alone in 1983 and not the 1000 all over as mentioned. They would not have dropped paratroopers on Denmark either far from the front and unable to supply them. They would be quickly contained a crushed, There is no chance of themnot landing directly in a zone of responsibillity of the national who could report them size and movements. Possibly harrass them too. Denmark falling in 3 days is also completely impossible. It would have taken weeks if not a month. In general this mockumentary moves the fronts too quickly. It would not belong untill the territorial defense arrived in huge numbers with all the surprise they needed. Air assault troop are not used more than 30km from the front. They must be reachable very quickly because they will be outnumbered and impossible to supply. Aside from that this is a brilliant piece of work.
in 83, Europe and the US were someway divided already so i don't think they would take well a surprise attack before responding to it. Just as WP would have invaded a NATO country i'd see a US acting alone in Europe, not minding to coordinate itself woth the few european forces but just manouvering them. Probably there would be so many burocratic problems between US and EU that we could even see armed protests of European citizens against US, going with an EU hating US and USSR or maybe even sympathising with the invador, since surely not all the downsides of communism were let to see by everyone
I was in West Germany during Able Archer in 83. We stayed in the field longer than usual. We had nuclear land mines all over the Fulda gap that’s a fact. It’s now been declassified.
Not so, at least until 1980. My battalion (3/28 INF) war position was on the ridge line in front of the City of Fulda, facing the Fulda Gap. Our mission was to cover the massive conventional minefield to be laid in front of our position. I had a Top Secret clearance and certainly would have known of any nuclear mines actually laid. However, I know positions had been prepared inside key bridges, etc, to allow use of such mines if the decision were ever made.
IN 1983 the colonization of the west had barely begun so there still were white western nations to defend. now armies are under foreign orders and stand as occupiers.
So, would nato have started a nuclear war instead of accepting defeat ?
@@TheBelrick what does this mean
@@herculesc130. You wouldn't get it if we told you.
The one thing that ruins this is the computerized narration. Other than that this could be taken directly from a Tom Clancy novel.
Well, the script could also have used some work. Must admit I gave up fairly soon - confusing "depots" with "deposits" did it for me. Unless of course those
bombers REALLY destroyed bank deposits :-)
So weird, that only was used for the first 20 minutes! It gets way better
It's narrated by computer because all the humans are dead after WW3. This video is for the education of AI units after birth in the automated factories.
Sounds like a cod cold war intro
i wish i could give this 100 likes
"only tactical nukes were used againsts military"
*proceeds to nuke whole vistula river where half of Polish population lives*
I was stationed in Germany with an Air Force Tactical Communications unit from 1976 -1979. The first portion of this film is almost exactly the same as the war plan that was in place during that time. In 1976, the Air Force moved the majority of its resources west of the Rhine in the hopes of salvaging something to help provide cover for a fighting retreat. We also had our annual REFORGER exercise which was a practice run for an invasion of the Soviet and Warsaw Pact Forces. This film got a lot of things right but almost as many things wrong.
One of the things that they got wrong would be the casualty count. Considering that during my time in Germany there were over half a million Americans, nearly half of them civilian dependents. So the "35,000" casualties listed is way too low unless they are only counting those who perished in American Territories.
Tja, die Russen sind jetzt weg. Zeit das ihr auch mal eure Koffer packt!
@@axmat3436Are you crazy? Who attacked Ukraine, aliens?
@@axmat3436du spa*ti bekommst nicht mal mit, wenn der Russe vor der Tür steht. Ich hasse Kommunisten.
In 1983 I was in Woomera Air Station in Australia doing the same as you. We monitored the whole Eastern hemisphere from there. I wondered if the USSR would've taken us out. We had plenty of exercises and scenarios over it. Was in Ramstein in the 90s, shutting down comms over all of Europe, post the Soviet Union breakup. What a bullet the world dodged!
@@axmat3436
Wenn sie ihre Koffer packen, brauchen Sie auf jeden Fall Reisetaschen aus Holz
"Agricultural capability is virtually intact"
*all those tactical nukes that were fired would like to have a word with you*
@@zaijiancelis air bursts would spread the most radiation
Yeah, but airbursts would detonate high enough that the radiation goes back into the atmosphere where it delutes and decays before falling back to earth
@@robjones1328 No, airbursts create virtually no radiation beyond the initial gamma pulse. Fallout is debris sucked up through the fireball, and that doesn't happen with an airburst.
Power plant meltdowns are what create long lasting radiation. Hiroshima was safe to live in within a year.
@@fergusmason5426 Yep, but its pretty understandable that most people don't really understand this as it is slightly counterintuitive.
Andropov: I'm not a rapper.
Also Andropov: 37:21
Top 10 rappers that Eminem himself is scared to diss
Lol
37:21 what is the music?
Lil Andropov
His mixtape is hotter than a thousand suns
I like your videos because you format them similar to historical media instead of fiction. It feels like I'm watching a documentary from a parallel dimension
My father went on exercises with the British army in Germany in the 1980's as he was helping develop a new radio system for them. The soldiers told him that if the soviets attacked they planned to run as fast as possible in the other direction as there was no way to fight their overwhelming numbers. They also expected nukes to be flying around within hours.
😂😂😂
Someone else in the comments mentioned that Soviet doctrine insisted on nukes being used within the commencement of the invasion.
And who won the war?
Switzerland.... again.
🤣
🤣
🤣
Next video will be "what if NATO and Warsaw Pact attack Switzerland"
@@zvallid 1985: the swiss flag on the cremlin and the white house
I couldn't be the only one who got confused when Michael Jackson showed up
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhahhaaaahhhh
HEEE HEEE
Probably the effect of a radiactive magnesium bomb
yea me to
You and him both. As he wrote with the autographs he signed for the Spetznatz troops who captured him, "I'm a lover, not fighter."
Tbh this is one of the best scenarios I’ve seen
"It will be difficult to be re-elected in 1988"
Yes...I found that statement quite funny after an almost all-out nuclear war...
@@RDeckardN6 Especially so since Reagan's second term ended in 1988 and he could not have run for a third term.
You would imagine in a full scale nuclear war he would be thinking of the next election
@@chuckschillingvideos A president can be re elected during a time of war
@@fyiispy8014 Are you really this much of an idiot or do you just play one on TV? Read the 22nd Amendment (maybe better to have someone read it to you) to the US Constitution.
One thing the NATO forces are probably not expecting: The Warsaw Pact invasion plans probably used massive amounts of tactical nuclear weapons from the start.
A military historiam from the FPRI was discussing a class he had with a former Soviet colonel right after the fall of the USSR. The colonel stated that the attack plans for the North Sea included 500 (not a typo, five HUNDRED) tac nukes to be dropped on Denmark in the opening days of the war. More importantly, they were set to be used UNLESS the commander said no.
There's a reason that Soviet armor was equipped with RNBC survivability: They EXPECTED the battlefield to be radioactive, because they were going to make it so.
Pretty true, this war game falls short at every front. Its pro western ideology. Nukes favor first use. Massive and surprise. After that the enemy is smoldering ruins and no resistance to expect. But there has always be MAD, Mutual Assured Destruction. Its the tactical nuclear submarines with almost no warning times possible. All coastal cities will fall in 15 minutes with millions dead.
So any large scale nuclear attack need to take care on any nuclear capability of the enemy first.
Still there will be no winner in this kind of war, only losers.
@Ian Lundquist Russia don't need land, neither the USA. Its to destroy the enemy and make sure he never come back. So its in a way logical to destroy the land. Romans did that with Carthage, they conquered it, razed the capital to the ground and threw salt on the land. So they never will bother again the Roman Empire. And they never did.
@@hansjorgkunde3772 Yes, right. But it didn't prevent the Roman Empire to collapse a few centuries later. Nothing lasts forever...
@@RDeckardN6 That is true, but it had other reasons. A old prophecy in Rome was 'If we ever turn away from our gods the Roman empire will fall" Technically it existed as Byzantium (east Roman Empire) until 1453 as Constantinople fell. Certainly the fall of the Empire is related to Christianity. They turned down their gods. Only 81 years after Christianity became the official religion in 395 AD the western Roman Empire fell in 476 AD with no help from Byzantium as they didn't care much about Catholics because they were Orthodox. 1000 years later they shared the same fate.
dude it is 1983 it was the hight of the cold war do you really think the soviet can take nato of guard
I was in West Germany during all of this in 1983. I was home with my parents when my fathers unit was put on alert and sent to the Fulda Gap while my job was to get my family ready to leave Germany. Alot of us kids knew the responsibilities we should WW3 kick off.
I like how this whole scenario hinges on NATO doing absolutely nothing in response to being attacked. Quality assessment.
At least it’s accurate
Guess they forgot about Reforger 200k US troops in europe in a week
@@robvoncken2565 Right? This whole analysis amounts to some kid playing with toy soldiers in their sandbox making things up as they go.
@@gigagigagilgamesh indeed it does then again I rather frown at someone putting this on youtube then this having been reality
Western Europe was terrified of a Soviet invasion. If they began massing men on the border, no way NATO would have ignored it.
I got an idea.
2nd American civil war scenario 2020.
Yes.
Double yes
Such a conflict is a virtual certainty...
2nd Texan Republic
DroL fo SseNdaM no it’s not.
This is incredibly interesting, and had a lot of thought put into it. Genuinely loved this!
I want a sequel that brings us up to the present (2021). Thanks!
may be in the future
@@zvallid was the house of romanov the former royal family restored after this video
@@jamesNov I think not
Much more US heavy equipment was in Europe than was ever truly made public, in well-defended storage bunkers, so most US divisions that were thought to need naval convoys would have actually flown to Europe to fight with pre-positioned equipment. Their US-based equipment would still cross on convoys, but would serve as replacements, not primary war-fighting capability.
All relevant countries has depots in Germany. It would take much more time than acceptable to move the heavy equipment of a division just from Denmark to Germany. Just the idea moving 200 tanks to Germany very fast is unrealistic.We did not have just close to the trucks and they would wear themselves out driving there. Esspecially the Centurion and m41 tanks would not make it. I doubt an M113 would.
Yes, it was called "Reforger", a clever term meaning "Return of Forces to Germany" but also called up imagery of reforging a sword. The idea was that we couldn't afford to keep a large enough Army in Germany to actually win a war, but if the equipment was already there, we would just have to fly in the troops (using commercial airliners if necessary) to get new divisions up and running.
Indeed.
Brazil : 50 casualties
Yep, we've showed them, Boys
I don't believe Brazil would send troops to support NATO. It never happened during the War on Terror and certainly would never happen in a war against a superpower.
@@rjr6274 are you joking? In 1983 we're still under the military regime, our president in this timeline will be changed if he made what in our timeline make
Maybe the hardline anti comunist block of the brazilian leadership will be stronger with a united war agains socialism
And we never miss a big fight
War on terror is not our business
A few thoughts on this.
1.) The top NATO fighter in the 80s wasn't the F16, it was the F15. In the 70's there was a belief that the Soviets had developed some kind of super fighter, the MiG-25 and the F15 was developed to be even superior to that. Turns out from a defecting Soviet pilot the CIA had wildly overestimated the MiG-25's capabilities, which left NATO with an air superiority fighter far superior to anything the Soviets had. The F16 was a low cost multirole fighter meant to complement the expensive F15. It's still better than anything except possibly the MiG-29, even then that depends a lot on circumstance. Because of that beyond the initial couple of weeks Soviet air superiority would fade very, very quickly since at this point they really had no answer for the F15. NATO pilots were also substantially better trained on top of their equipment's quality advantages. NATO would gain air superiority in the second half of the battle very quickly.
2.) Soviet battle planning assumed the war would go nuclear almost immediately and intended to make liberal use of tactical nuclear weapons once NATO started using theirs. Their assumption was that it wouldn't turn into a strategic nuclear exchange. NATO had a conditional no first use policy which depended on them not being totally overwhelmed on the ground. In this scenario they managed to force a stalemate, so I don't see it happening here. Given that the context is an unprovoked attack, I doubt US public opinion would cave so quickly. Escalating to nukes would be politically extremely unpopular in NATO.
3.) The Soviet Union wasn't self-sustaining in terms of food, they stopped trying to be as far back as the 70's. China style reforms is largely what perestroika was, open up on the margins but control the state owned enterprises. It couldn't work because the Soviet economy was far too heavily industrialized and urbanized, which wasn't the case with China. China also benefited hugely from liberal trade policies in the West, which because of the ongoing state of war wouldn't happen in this case.
4.) I'm not clear how a Soviet hardline premier like Romanov would permit for the end of the Warsaw Pact. This was only possible because of US security guarantees (which were broken by Clinton, W Bush and Obama) and with NATO and the Soviets not being in a Korea style endless state of war.
5.) The Pershing deployments in Europe were because of a result of the Soviets first deploying SS-20 "Satan" intermediate ranged missiles, they very much did start.
6.) Reagan and the Republican party would be extremely popular because it would prove everything he said about the USSR to be right. It would also accelerate Star Wars and other ABM efforts by showing the dire need to be able to intercept both ICBM and intermediate ranged missiles.
They did mention that NATO was overall technologically superior but were taken by surprise and had fewer numbers.
SS-20 wasn't Satan, but Saber. SS-18 is Satan.
In the video recognized that NATO was Technologically superior to the Warsaw Pact, and if I agree that NATO was taken completely by surprise, also by having massive numerical superiority, as alwa6ys the Russians abuse that to lead to a deadlock, in fact, even that had a name "on the way to the rhine river in 7 days" where the Warsaw Pact, made a whole bread to reach the rhine river and from there a deadlock for further negotiations.
oleg
Gordievsky, a Soviet spy who defected, confirms this, he informed MI6 that Abel Racher 83 had alarmed the highest command of the USSR so that they were preparing for a full-scale war, while NATO did not believe that the Soviets reached such a level.
Also, I do believe that Regan would have ordered a nuclear attack knowing her personality.
That if I doubt that the Warsaw Pact would have been dissolved, the war would only have made the most dependent states of the USSR more dependent
@@ithologicia I don't think you know Reagan all that well if you think he's a woman.
@@christopherbravo1813 I think he is conflating Raygun and Snatcher! I don't believe that, in the situation presented, US involvement in any of this would be guarunteed. Despite treaty obligations etc. Reagan was a traditional American conservative, moulded in the 1930s. He would have tended toward isolationism, if the risk was only to W Germany, as NATO came to believe. He,would have ordered his boys to hold fire, pulled out of NATO (never popular with US people,) and left us to it! Reagan's policy was to bankrupt the USSR by restarting the nuclear arms race. Moving cruise and Pershing to 1980s Europe was theatre. I do remember the "almost war"/cancelled launch incident, it was widely reported at the time btw. Oh and RR would have certainly have found re election in 1988 difficult under any circumstances, since the US constitution allows a president only two terms!
Great video. Loved that you considered the South Africans... Most underestimated military in the cold war. Prevented communist africa and crippled the cuban military in a embarresing defeat. You using the words "easily defeated" are very accurate such as the rest of the video
Err. the saffers took a licking at Cuito Carnivale. And their intervention in Angola was a political disaster.
As a Cuban Im glad that we lost that war I wouldn’t want communism to spread to The south of Africa
@@Clocks171 el comunismo es un cáncer
@@arturomonter4095 si
@@Clocks171 gusano moment
Closely mirrors a novel called "Team Yankee" in the mid-80's, although in that book the war was more in Europe, and went nuke before Frankfurt area fell, but British cities of Manchester and Birmingham were the targets. Book did not come up with the first strike of nukes to basically cut off all transportation from Soviet Union to western front....interesting concept. You did a a lot of research on this. I was in W Germany in Army, and participated in a REFORGER and numerous V Corps alerts. Things were very hairy in the Cold War, and people tend to forget that now.
I think he used the book "World War III" as the strategic backdrop for Team Yankee.
As a 21 year old tanker in 1st Bn. 69th Armor 3rd Inf. Div. Harvey barracks Kitzingen , that would have been a hoot. 86-88.
Those teethIess brits will be forever damned to have lead to a world like this, causing ww1 and ww2 and maybe now ww3 just so they could put another fat king on the throne of France instead of doing 7 coalitions against the first European leader elected by the people since the roman Era bringing equality and justice that still happened anyway once he spreaded them in Europe and the world. All that just so their inbred family could pillage India for some more decades and get some diamonds, millions of people died for this countries erased for decades like Poland and Ukraine, we will never forget that you are the enemy of humanity
We know now that the Soviets were not nearly as beefy as they claimed to be. Many units were undersupplied and mechanized units were in disrepair. It was mostly a smokescreen.
Yeah. You are definitely right . Matter of fact I doubt many as astute as you would even remember that nor take into account. What say you against the rebuttal that one could make what's your response to someone saying : BUT much like right now the usual conventional weapons assets and ordinance isn't at all the only bad McNastyness they can field against the west ...this is the same bullshit hitler pulled at the beginning of his misguided campaigns....it had been documented and well known france had him outgunned in numbers and stock ....they even had units doing laps at the olympics and prior state showings of military units had france and britain not backed away they definitely could have destroyed the blitzkrieg before it fully materialized. But let's say his V1 and V2 and JP Messerschmitt and stuff like that was readymade ....I couldn't imagine the carnage and how much the mighty warstock of the west and it's industrial might would be rendered redundant once nuke tips ballistic missiles are brought into the fray. They could be broke as fuck to the point Mikhail has the NKVD bringing their own ramen noodles for baglunches as they sit freezing around old Kate launchers hoping to use them just for the heat ...NONE of this matters when they have a few bears and a few akula subs and those few have a few ICBMs and THOSE have a few LORE warheads and just a few of those get through of the eastern seaboard and G.o.M ....and I purposely left out this very much current and very damaging cyber attack per less than a week ago as in not sure exactly how this works itself in our little impromptu debate here and I'm sure neither of us has had time to run the simulations at our secret underground lairs with our respective joints chiefs having been brought to speed by contingency options teams and mock worst case scenarios on our basement super computers lol....but seriously what do you think ? ....
1983 is probably a bit late in time for them considering they lost a lot of power only 6-7 years later with the fall of the Iron Curtain. 1960 or so would probably be a better time for a closer conflict.
Exactly
@@JamesMc2051 The Soviets were far more powerful in 1983 than they were in 1962, you forget that their fall was partly down to bankruptcy. By the mid 80's the USSR had pretty much more of everything than NATO did to the point that it won Ronald Reagan his presidency when he declared to close the gap with his 600 ship navy.
Not sure where gdubsterz or Mighty Sagetto get their information from but I'd like to see some sources for "We know now.."
Absolutely.
France didn't left NATO.It only left NATO's structure but still was in a defensive alliance.
And propably would have stood aside nato front line from day one. But nothings for sure.
French troops would reach the frontline by Day 7, effectively by Day 14 the French could be involved in a, "Miracle of Frankfurt", and by Day 21 the Soviets would use nukes on harbors and bridges along the Rhine to split NATO supply lines forcing a ceasefire by late November, in which they agree to the pre-war status
France under De Gaulle had a plan to make a new border in Germany using nukes if the soviets advanced as there was no way to stop them@@AtomPilsener
De Gaulle was an ingrate. France would not have been much of a loss in any case.
Top 10 rappers enimen is too afraid to Diss: 37:21
I'm no expert, just an 11 Bravo 10 Infantryman that was stationed at Baumholder W Germany from 1977-80.
We respected the Warsaw Pact!
Our job was to hold the Fulda Gap for 72 hrs until we received reinforcement.
We were more afraid of a nuke from NATO than slugging it out with the E. Germans, Czech and Russian troops.
Our shit was literally in the wind.
In 1978, we were called out at about 3am on a United States Army Europe Alert. We grabbed weapons, hauled ass to the motorpool, took off to the ammo dump in Meissau. By the time we were on the road for what seemed a couple of hours, half of our amored vehicles had broken down and were out of commission. We would have gotten massacred the Gap.
It was Carter's Administration, he was a pacifist, and our army was badly neglected!😮 Glad it was only a drill!
Carter was so weak
Cultural effects of ww3:
- Reagan-worship knows no bounds as he is remembered for providing strong leadership throughout the bulk of the war.
- WW3 films become all the rage throughout the 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s. WW2 films and WW1 films less prevalent - films like Saving Private Ryan might be butterflied away or reworked to fit into a WW3 context.
- Technothriller authors scramble to try and find a way to recoup from real life eclipsing their work. Tom Clancy takes a break from writing fiction and instead collaborates with historians and veterans to create a massive non-fiction novel detailing the Third World War through the eyes of soldiers, politicians, and civilians on both sides. Entitled something like Red Storm Realized or The Eagle and the Bear, the work is hailed as Clancy's magnum opus upon it's release in 1993. Meanwhile, Harold Coyle writes a book detailing his personal experiences in the war, comparing his fictional scenario in Team Yankee with the real thing.
It is not very important but I also join.
On October 30, Argentina returns to vote after almost 40 years of military dictatorship, the winner is Alfonsin, he begins to overdo and judge many former soldiers who caused war crimes during the dictatorship, and also unmasks the "Condor Plan" (a plan United States that involved in establishing anti-communitarian dictatorships throughout Latin America) and the United States acting in the Videla dictatorship, This information comes to Uruguay, Paraguay, Bolivia, Chile (which at that time was under the command of Agusto Pinochet) this generates many Prosthests against governors in Chile and after a civil war Pinochet is killed by members of the guerrillas of the MIR (Movement of the Spanish Revolutionary Left) and ERP (Popular Revolutionary Army, Argentine Communist guerrilla).
In Argentina, information on the participation of the United States in the condon plan, in addition to the defeat in the Falklands War against the British, generates a rejection and an Anti-State and Anti-Capitalist sentiment, in the coming years Argentina will fall into ruin Economical as in our years and in the elections of 89´ will assume leftist Kirchner but without abandoning capitalism, but with Anti-American and Anti-Imperialist policies bringing Argentina closer to the Soviet Union and helping revolutionary guerrillas throughout Latin America
get wrecked eastern bias i guess tehehehehe seriously this comment is more potent than a green tip BGM-109
Call of Duty 4, a WW2 shooter, releases in 2007, revolutionizing the FPS genre oversaturated with WW3 games.
Left-wing Capitalism, perhaps?
one more thing:
-American propaganda goes global,portraying the Soviet union and the other former communist countries as evil villains,comparable to nazism. Russia becomes the most hated country in the world,the other former commies are also hated but not nearly as much. Communism becomes illegal in almost every country, the USSR flag also becomes illegal. The events of the war become slightly twisted and becomes viewed as a NATO victory rather than the stalemate is really was.
And somehow they'll find a way to blame Germany
Media: all Germany's fault because Hitler and stuff
True
It’s going to be stupid
Yeah hence the war occured in the land of Germany, i think someone cursed their land 😆
@@muhammadsolihumarov5355 the entente cursed there lands
"all the green and leftist parties gone" ... oh man, i wish this so hard for germany these days ...
I was shocked when the B-17's attacked Cam Rhan. :D
Still fighting never giving up, they took off back in WW2 and they've been bombing for 40 years.
its cam ranh not cam rhan
pls respect us vietnamese
Hearing this read by a machine, in genuine Russian-affected English, really amps up the nostalgia value. Well done, entertaining, informative, convincing.
"Ww3 started"
Switerland: lichestein hold my beer!
Hold my nuclear winter
Lichtenstein: switz hold my +1 man
hold my toblerone bro
I m ruropean. I hzte this s.f
Sweden: Hey guys, I bringed some popcorns
i think we all know why we are here now
I'm very impressed with your work, imagination, and understanding of military history!! Hats off to you sir! Give me more!
45:09 Never forget the 25,000. I mean 300,000. I mean 2,000,000.
Inflated numbers
just like the Holobunga where 6 long nose tribesmen were killed in cave
@@aetu35 "its lies cuz muh feelz say so"
@@aetu35???
"North Korea: Unknown"
Me: of course...
This counrty has germ warfare
hi can ix
Thank you so much for these Alternate, and ,,what could have happended" Sceanrios and Videos! I love to watch them so much and thank you too for adding the music in the description.
I realized that living in our timeline is a blessing. I mean we didn’t go to war because of stupid Able Archer 83
This game fails to account for: pre-deployed equipment stored in western NATO countries; NATO's radar detecting massive plane movements to the west during pre-deployment; western intelligence sources detecting Warsaw pact movements toward the border (this grew out of the secret 1978 deployment of nearly +/-400,000 warsaw pact troops on the Czech-West Germany border); any real fast advancement that deep into into West Germany would've triggered the use of tactical nukes by the US and then by russia as the tide turned against them; and finally, with my unit being non-functioning, I would become a One-man Division operating behind soviet lines near the Bad Colberg-Heldburg area tying up several brigades, becoming a THORN in the soviets side. Almost all games ended up with all out nuclear war.
Also fails to account for the horrid condition of the Soviet transportation systems. You could’ve blown up rail lines in certain key sectors and tied vital resources up for days. Mig 25s were terrible planes. Insanely awful planes. As was most Warsaw Pact equipment compared what NATO had. Assuming nuclear war didn’t break out the Warsaw Pact would have been easily wiped out. Not even close.
@@michaelsnyder6922 That’s one of the weird things about the Soviet military thinking I never understood. If the reality is that everything is going to be blown to shit in nuclear hellfire, wouldn’t your first priority be to organize a rock solid logistics system, which could function in a nuclear battlefield?
NATO also didn’t do this too much to my knowledge but the Warsaw Pact would be logistically crippled in the battlefield from square one, and they should have been counting on that.
@@loganb7059 I would hazard a guess that it is very likely that they thought they had something approaching that, since it was in all their 5 year plans to improve logistics.
Even though you would think that people would see what was actually happening and plan according to the real conditions, the Soviets consistently were very optimistic about how well their forces could do.
And the fact that at the very beginning of the video, REFORGER 83 was already taking place. That means the National Guard Units would already be, or on their way to, Germany. The pre-emplaced equipment would have already been activated, and ready to go. The aviation units involved would have been or prepared to be deployed. Soviet air losses would have been massive up front.
this videos is full of mistake ( the best fighter is the f16 really what about the f15
Meanwhile in Europe...
Warsaw Pact - "Come fight me if you want to get your land back."
NATO - "Nope, we are both tired."
27:13 There was no Czech army in 1983, only Czechoslovak army.
As a SSG with the 2AD, I was sent to the northern West Germany, near Braunscheig, I was part of the radio traffic aspect of the Able Archer CPX.
To say we were shitting ourselves when we realized the Soviets began to react would be a huge understatement.
Imagine going down 40 levels into a POMCUS site hoping and praying the Balloon wouldn't go up.
You should make something related to the Yugoslav wars 1991-1999
Comment section is gonna be problem
That'll take forever to explain and to understand it, forget about it!
I liked this, more people in Europe get killed, not just us! ofcourse, as they had envisioned we would join later and do our thing anyway!
Watch the BBC documentary on "The Death of Yugoslavia" (although that is only up until 1996).
NATO is an exstention of the US military.
Interesting video. I was a tank mechanic in the US VII Corps in Southern Germany for 2 years, left 4 months before the Berlin Wall came down. No one I knew would've guessed that was gonna happen in 1989. We were highly prepared, as I'm sure the Wausau Pact was. The biggest difference between us came down to the individual soldier. The US was all volunteer and the Soviet were all conscripts. I believe most of our units would still fight effectively after the loss of it's officers. The NCO's were (and are) expected to make decisions with a minimum of Command guidance.
Did you guys still have M3A1 grease guns?
@@danmorris8594 Yes, in 1983
@@danmorris8594 Only tank units used the M-3a1 grease guns. All Infantry and Artillery units used the M-16a1 at this time frame. The reason only tankers had the grease guns is the weapon of a tank crewmen is the tank itself. A tank fights as a tank.
And Soviets weren't too concerned about NATO tank formations since they had large numbers in their Category A units. What worried the Soviets was the TOW missile system: they called it "Three Men and a Jeep" lol.
@@jeffburnham6611 The problem was they had more tanks than we had Tows.
Soviet logic:
"If we throw enough people at the enemy, the enemy will eventually run out of bullets"
Tbh that's more of a stereotype than a historical fact
@@someguy8365 You are sort of right but look at how much russia values its soldiers now days.
Look not just at the Ukrainian war rn but at the "great patriotic war" or the winter war with finland
@@bobbob5800 I am specifically referring to the great patriotic war when I say that they didn't just throw bodies at the enemy. (at least, not OFTEN)
That's actually more or less an Chinese tactic used in the Korean war
My grandfather served on the USS Kitty Hawk during the Vietnam War. Had it been destroyed about 18 years earlier in this timeline... I wouldn't exist.
Excellent. I was looking for something like this during the last 40 years. Now I have Red Storm Rises and this video.
Don't forget Team Yankee and Red Army by Ralph Peters
I feel like airpower is kind of undersold when you get to the part about NATO having achieved air superiority. It may not be the single decisive factor but it is a serious force multiplier and could likely inflict heavy losses to armored units.
Extremely undervalued
The video answers this by saying that the NATO air forces at the time didn’t have the guided munitions that they have today, unguided bombs aren’t the most effective against large tank divisions.
@@bigred5287 Unguided doesn't mean innacurate, or useless.
In the video having only unguided bombs didn't stop the warsaw forces from extensively bombing the NATO forces.
But then when NATO achieves air superiority they just stand around and do nothing ?
This vid is bullshit and stupidly assumes a lot of things, don't take it as gospel.
@@MessInMines Literally all alternative history is based on assumptions.
@@bigred5287 I wanna say that the US, did have mk-20 rock eye cluster bombs and agm-65s that were effective armor killing machines
"only the kremlin know the targets"
"Boston"
fallout 4 intensifies
me living in massachusetts:
not again...
Why would you put all this together and use a computer voice.
i was fine with it
Gave it an 80s vibe
The only sure part of this video is China would have remained neutral in this particular situation.
The assessment is correct. Makes no sense to pick a side and benefit from a weakened winner
@@danmorris8594 China would have for sure strengthened their borders, but they had no vested interest in a NATO vs Warsaw pact conflict. They simply had too much to risk. They were in no place to fight any type of offensive war then. They had massive losses against the west in Korea and were not willing to make any bets on coming out on top against the west, even if they had a loose alliance with the soviets.
@@derklanz1222 if they had massive losses in Korea then how come North Koreab still exists!?
@@PotentialTechniques because the Chinese were willing to accept heavy losses in order to keep N. Korea in their sphere of influence and as a buffer against an American influenced S Korea.
last part of video is very ideological, someway against EU and ecology :D
He is against EU because he is Russian and a Putin supporter.
@@RDeckardN6oof
@@RDeckardN6 i think zvallid is italian
I'm against the EU myself. It is destroying itself. luckly UK noticed and left. (sorry if this triggers anyone but) I hope the EU will desolve.
@@pentaboss1351 EU guaranteed the longest period of peace, democracy and freedom to Europe in its whole history. I wonder how ignorant people like you can presume that more than 30 european states that spent most of their time fighting each other can live and prosperate better staying separate.
Regarding your UK it's really funny because just yesterday I was reading how their export index fell dramatically (20-30 %) after their left EU and how difficult things are getting for UK companies and firms with the new Customs' regime.
I'm ready to bet with you who will disappear first...UK or EU ??
Scotland is just waiting a new referendum to leave the Union Jack and re-enter EU, Northern Ireland will follow.
EU will remain and possibly go on expanding, UK in a few years will become a "little Britain", isolated and much poorer. Good luck to them and good luck to narrow-minded people like you.
A lot of effort in this video. Great job
What a great channel, its so undervalued, keep going
thank you
Soviet bombers: (bomb London)
London civilians: ah shit, here we go again.
They wouldn't even got near. Old ass prop bombers would have been cannon fodder for the RAF. Still are 😉
for the third time xD
@@namtaffy101 biggest propaganda ive ever heard xd by that logic the b52 is cannon fodder
The thing about air superiority is that once you have it, the enemy no longer can supply their army in an effective assault.
Having actually lived it and serving in the US Army in West Germany I can confirm this was really close to being a real thing. I participated in the next year Reforger but was on standby when Grenada went down. That seems like it was just yesterday watching this video.
Hey dude, you're not gonna believe this...
A few other interesting points in history that could have gone "limited" nuclear are 1950's Korea (US vs China) and 1960's Vietnam (France or US vs communist north).
I think that China did not have nukes in the 1950s
@@Alex-zg7vq Which would have made all the more tempting to do so for the USA, as China couldn't retaliate.
Chinese only detonated their first nuke in 1964.
I'm surprised they didn't on either occasion.
@@Alex-zg7vq The Soviets threatened nuclear retaliation if nukes were used in the Korean war.
This is crazy...the amount of time for making this video..and for using creativity...very well done...not an easy video to make
The footage of WW2 B-29 aircraft to represent 1983 was especially convincing.
I was in the 8th I.D. during this time, the Fulda gap was our main concern . I never laughed so hard when the narrator said the Russians went around us like the Maginot line. Hey it was fun training for it LOL.
The video author has obviously never tried to drive a tank in Germany...
@@thatguyinelnorte Hitler: Neither have I
Yet I beat France
Kaiser: you mean we both did Hitler
Apparently there were nuclear mines in the gap
Also Soviets knew about A-10 and probably would have tried to outflank
Iraq: *has nukes*
Computer voice: have fun
Are you from Bellendsleydale? Sounds like you may be cut off from modern society and listen to idel chit chat from your goats. May i suggest an adjustment to your intelligence source and also change from vodka to Yorkshire Tea. Peace out Ghoatrider
Imagine the horrific casualties among the helpless civilians that had no protection.
South America has been forgotten 😥. despite the extreme right-wing dictatorships (1964-89) of Brazil, Argentina and Chile, had considerable regional military power. it is likely that in a third world conflict Brazil and Argentina in search of financial support to pay off the foreign debt in return would probably send expeditionaries to Italy or support the transport of troops across Europe and patrolling the central and southern Atlantic Ocean. Brazil had a huge number of soldiers in the period, something close to 250,000 men. Argentina before 1982 had a strong air and naval force.
That's because nothing interesting really happens in this region. We do have some dictatorships like Augusto Pinochet of Chile, and also the Falklands War started by Argentina, and also the ongoing drug war in Colombia and Venezuela (thanks so much Pablo Escobar...).
This region usually likes to stay neutral, but it supports a side. In WW2, almost all of South America supported the Allies. Brazil even sent an expeditionary force to Europe. Only Brazil would be the most active nation here, as it is involved in many things. Like when the US used Brazilian ports to land troops in North Africa in Operation Torch.
@@walker68175 But after the Falklands War, Argentina have a resentment with the OTAN. Maybe they try to invade Chile, the Falklands Islands, Brazil or all of them, with soviet support, especially after the military uprisings of the 'carapintadas', which probably would have advanced.
Remember also that Peru and Bolivia would have entered the war if Brazil tried to invade Argentina.
@@sergiokuhn3278 The Soviets didn't have enough naval power in the Pacific to send significant support to the argentines, any supply convoy or plane would have been wiped out by the US, Japan, or Australia. Trying to support them through the Atlantic would have been suicidal, so the argentines would have been comoletely on their own.
Again, your scenario requires the people supporting the Carapintadas or the military ousting Raul Alfonsin from power.. which is highly unlikely, since they were already done with military dictatorships. As much resentment there may have been against NATO, they would not have risked to enter war against them with their wrecked army/navy nor risk to attack Chile or Brazil...the latter whom, by the way, supported them against the UK in the previous war. That would be extremely stupid and ungrateful on the behalf of any argentinian government.
Some Carapintada guerrillas may have risen, but that's all.
The time period of this scenario was very short, and primarily fought on the Central European plains which is famously hard to defend and easy for armies to move around. South America meanwhile is very mountainous and jungle ridden and movement in the area would be too difficult, there’s also little motive in large scale war for countries in the region. The only battleground in the area would be the plains between Argentina and Brazil. These two countries would be unlikely to go to war in this scenario
Brazil and Argentina have so many Germans. They are battle hardened soldiers too.
Still the greatest video on RUclips. This NEEDS to be a movie!!!
i really thank you for the comment and for the help you give me
I find it fitting that WW3 starts the same day WW1 ended
iirc France didn’t actually leave NATO as article V still applied
Man, when I had seen the notification I came in faster than Germany invading Denmark... *...wait*
the word you want is "France" or "poland*
@@8vantor8 Nah. Denmark was taken in atleast 4 or 3 hours while i arrived in here around 30 minutes late. Poland and France both took 1 and almost 2 months to fall to the Germans (in Polands case, the soviets too)
@@flufferusgoobus Denmarks doesn't count because they just let it happen, and didn't fight back. While i understand where you are coming from i just can't agree.
As Eastern German I can say our army was not prepared to fight against their comrades. Many if not most would have refused or surrendered. We were always in the mood of being occupied till 1989. We would never have been faithful to Warsaw pact in such a case.
Same in the West
@@zvallidthe West Germans would have been more motivated to fight the Soviets than East Germans fighting NATO
One of the things you don't mention here is how by 1983 NATO had both Germany and the Denmark Strait absolutely laced with mines that could be remotely activated. By this time NATO was confident that the mines would slow the Soviet offensive to a crawl and put the Soviet Navy the bottom of the sea. Totally different story a decade or two earlier.
I am a Danish vet. The idea of Denmark falling in the 3 days is unrealistic. Crushing or pushing the Danish and west german fleet away from danish shore and sweeping the mines blocking possible places for a landing would in itself take a lot longer than a week. The idea of dropping paratroopers on Denmark to occupy, it does not mention where is also unrealistic. They would be dumped right into the hands of army and national guard and they would be impossible to supply. Every spent bullet cannot be replaced.The danes would have all the ammo we needed. How do you even make a larger air assault on a territory which air defense is still fully or just half way funktional ?
This is What Happend if Flight 007 Disaster Start WW3.
Interesting video, but I would seriously challenge, as many historians have, both the general capabilities of the Warsaw Pact and even more so the cohesion among Warsaw Pact member states as fundamental assumptions about the likelihood of a successful Soviet military operation into Western Germany and Western Europe.
With regard to the general capabilities of the Warsaw Pact, particularly the Soviet armed forces, we rely heavily on the mythology created around the Red Army in the aftermath of World War II. The Red Army is typically portrayed as this menacing, overwhelming and single-minded military force that it probably never really was. But images of an army of Ivan Dragos are simply an illusion born out of fear and have nothing in common with reality. As we see today in Putin's war in Ukraine, questions must be raised whether the Red Army was not in fact woefully prepared and whether the general corruption that plagued the planned economy of the Soviet Union also affected its military apparatus. And just as the Soviet Union failed at creating economic prosperity, at how it failed to prevent the Chernobyl nuclear meltdown and how it failed at large undertakings like the lunar program, it is more than reasonable to think that the military structure suffered from similar systemic problems ultimately putting in doubt the Red Army's capabilities as an effective strike force.
Secondly, as we all know it didn't take too much for the Warsaw Pact and the Soviet Union to collapse only few years later. It is reasonable to assume that any plans of an invasion of Western Europe would have resulted in serious upheaval throughout all the Soviet satellite states. To assume that Polish and Czech armed forces would march in unison with their Soviet comrades ignores the deep divisions and resentment for the Soviet Union that existed in those countries throughout the Cold War. It's especially hard to imagine that East Germans would ultimately have participated in the destruction of West Germany certainly not without serious repercussions on the home front even if the East German leadership was probably more hardline than anywhere else in the Warsaw Pact. Therefore, it's easy to see how an order to cross the Iron Curtain and invade Western Europe would have resulted in massive domestic unrest and ultimately a premature unraveling of the Warsaw Pact.
Considering these reasonable doubts about the general competency of the Soviet and Warsaw Pact forces as well as a probable lack of willingness of non-Soviet forces to participate in military operations, one is left to wonder if Soviet leadership would not have been compelled to use nuclear weapons right from the get-go. In turn, this is what would have probably deterred them in the first place since a nuclear exchange would have no winners at all.
In fact, if in its entirety the Cold War indeed never turned hot because of the clear demarcations that had been established leaving the 2 superpowers in a place where they had far more to lose than they could ever hope to gain from direct military confrontation. The superpowers were therefore left with proxy wars as well as political and economic intervention to adjust their spheres of influence ever so slightly. It is noteworthy as well that there is hardly any country that switched allegiance during the 4 decades that the Cold War lasted.
I was active duty Air Force, 1974-1994. In 1983, I was on worldwide mobility. My Commander, Lt. Col. Keith Grimes, called me into his office, and gave me a FULL, top secret debriefing on my EWO, or emergency war orders. He was as serious as I have ever seen him. Something was going on...and to this day, I don't know what. Someone, VERY high up, thought ... something, and the US military, including myself, got ready.
The best simulation ever made, weighing in all the aspects of territory, supplies, navy, tanks and so on was in the book Red Storm Rising by Tom Clancy, a navy officer and teacher with a deep knowledge of both sides. The book was considered a manual for military schools in US for something like 10 years. Except for the use of tactical nukes, there are no chances of a fast loss of Nato forces (six months) as in the video.
37:16 Andropov about to drop his new diss-track on NATO
cant wait for his next album, "Fuck I have Renal Failiure"
France was a NATO member, they just weren't part of the NATO Integrated Command in 1983.
@Peter Lorimer they probably weren't. They weren't sure who's side they were on in the 2nd world war.
All available evidence from the 20th century would suggest that they would have absolutely no positive effect even if they did get involved
@Peter Lorimer DeGaulle was an asshole
The French do love to tell the United States what they can and can't do , yet sell weapons to every country in the middle east .
@Peter Lorimer Our need nato allies havn't paid their fair share for years , there really isn't a need for nato anymore .
In high school in 1983. Gave me chills watching this because it felt plausible.
Depends on how many are used and how much damage and fallout make it to the ground and water. Many variables that are possible to get a much worse outcome. Enjoyed your series and I will patiently wait for the next one.
So, MAD exists. Let’s remember that...
This is so awesome and detailed! Amazing!
Yes
È incredibile come questo video abbia già più di 3 anni, per me la miglior storia alternativa mai realizzata su questo canale
As someone that grew up in Austria, 50 miles from the Iron Curtain during the Cold War, well done! Very feasible! I often wondered how WW3 would unfold, that it would unfold during the 80s was almost a given. I rated the possibility of a World War during the next 3 years as "high" during the 80s. And, as a teenager, I planned on how best to move my family to Western Austria (the Alps) while I volunteered to defend the Vienna Basin.
Yeah, it seemed so near to happening. I understand exactly what you mean.
9:06 Nato forces were caught off-guard...But were also in the middle of military exercises large enough to trigger a preemptive attack by the Soviet Union?
Do you have any idea how absurd that is? During exercises like the one's extrapolated in Able Archer, the only time military forces are at a higher state of readiness...is if they're actually at war. They would have been able to pivot from exercise to combat operations in a matter of hours.
Wasn't it mainly a communications exercise? I think all NATOs little tanks were tucked up in bed.
Bro doing an exercise and being ready for war are far different. When ur ready for war you do so many more preparations. For starters, you organise a lot of military tent hospitals to deal with losses. You mobilise much more men. The military exercise is offensive, but considering that soviet forces attack in much larger numbers they are not ready at all, the exercise is just superficial.
Pretty sure you need supplies to retreat 100s of kms. Training doesn’t have you travelling that distance. You need to coup a bunch of supplies for an offensive or defensive first, while NATO was merely only training here.
This is a very fine video, great work
We wouldn't look at the 80s and 90s with nostalgia then.
Awesome. Best I have seen to date. Great commentary.
This was a brilliant video, you’ve done a great job.
I am astonished that Colonel Petrov is not mentioned. You can only understand how close we were to total annihilation (not to a partial war as in this video) if you read his story: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov
"A war with russia, is Not Like bullying Serbia"
Bruh
Russians were scared to death of the US and NATO the entire Cold War... Or haven't you seen the reports on their opened files?
@@CH-pv2rz the russians were Just as scared of the US as the US was of russia, hence we Had No real ww3
burh soviets were strong enough to crush nato in europe with not that much efforts and this video is kinda pro freedom i think sovit would have won war with nato but stoping after getting austia germany bel italy and nether lands denmark Finland Sweden and norway. cuz sovit had no good naval capabilities good enough but there land forces was no match to nato.
@@CH-pv2rz aint usa was scared of ussr and make a pact that we will not invade each other home lands and why did usa got scared of russian nukes in cuba if usa was that good i think usa just a kid scared of losing it position as we see with china and usa relation so usa are scared to death. learn some history and see with open eyes usa is a evil and a scared country.
@@aquagaming3480not really, just look at the Russians in the current war
"Have fun", sarcasm level: species extinction