Destiny 2: Datto's Reaction/Thoughts to Aztecross' Microtransactions Video
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
- I apologize for all the facecam content recently, just been a coincidence. Not turning into a reaction channel, not right now anyway.
Aztecross dropped a heater on his channel recently, linked below, and given my complete apathy towards micros, how I'm referenced in the video and given how many people were all over every single social media thing asking me about it, people wanted to know what I think.
Aztecross Video: • Destiny 2 has become a...
Full Reaction from my stream: • Datto Stream: Reacting...
Foreververse: • FOREVERVERSE
Intro - 0:00
Aztecross Intro/Free to Play - 3:45
Paying for Content - 7:01
Dungeons - 9:26
Season Price/Silver Issues - 12:11
Holiday Events - 15:02
EV Prices/Marketing - 17:21
Pay to win - 20:08
2 Adults Talk to Each Other Respectfully - 28:14
Funding Marathon? - 29:48
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Игры
Need Aztecross’s reaction to Datto’s reaction to Aztecross’s reaction to Datto’s micro transaction video
Jokes aside, I'd love to have a video of them talking about D2 stuff podcast style.
@@katanafourzeronineno, we need to hear from byf. Kackis has already done a video
I know its a meme but I would 100% watch it
@@katanafourzeronine no I like intros under 5 hours thanks
Was just gonna say this
I never assumed dungeons would be free with prophecy BUT I think it’s bullshit we went from them being included in expansions to a separate pass after you already bought the big dlc and seasons
Yeeeeeaaaaah…
I’m sure there’s people out there with that opinion but I’ve personally never seen or heard anyone say “Prophecy was free so every other dungeon should be free stand alone.”
@@amorfati4927it should be part of the seasonal purchase, especially when they raise the price
They separated them because if I purchased the DLC and set my brothers console as my primary console he wouldn’t have to pay for it
This is a workaround they’re using to avoid that
Considering all the games that already do this even without account sharing in the mmo realm, it should’ve happened a while ago.
@@Mashamazzino it should be part of the expansion, like any other MMO, the fact you need to even pay for seasons is a joke, especially considering most of the content is just reusing old assets, and there is already heavy monetisation
Want to chime in on the hard truth moment about dungeons. I think the major problem isn't that dungeons aren't free, but that you can buy the expansion (which is what they used to be tied to) and the season in whish they come out, and you STILL need to buy a 3rd item in order to get them.
100% its why i refuse to buy dungeons now. and it fucking sucks...
Exactly!! If Bungie sticked with an annual pass sorta thing where seasons and dungeons were bundled it would have been better in my opinion... Bungie monetization schemes should be investigated. Epic learned their lesson with their practices on Fornite and I'm 100% Bungie sure would be in the hot seat as well.
@@drb1157 what you're talking about is the deluxe edition for dlc's. It gets you the yearly dlc, the annual pass, and the dungeon key.
Pretty much forcing the deluxe edition purchase if you want all live content per expansion per season per year.
They need to be bunched in the season pass this shit is absolutely sad
for deepsight harmonizers i personally would love to see them added to high end content master and GM level nightfalls, master lost sectors, etc
Or at the very least make it simimar to Ada-1's armor bounties and limit it to like 5-10 per Season per account
Or let us buy deepsight harmonizers with nightfall ciphers. If I already have the roll I want on my adept nightfall weapon, it would be cool if I could then use my 10 ciphers to pick up a deepsight harmonizer. It would have to be timegated like Rahool's materials exchange to 1/week so that people aren't out here unlocking raid patterns day 1, but it would at least give people another reason to engage with nightfalls past the loot and title.
I think this would be a perfect idea. let us hold more than one at a time. But them being a reward for high end content would be incredible. I used to be that player with a ton of time in game, but never touched master/GM nightfalls or raids. The rewards for GMs and the availability of crafting raid weapons is what got me into endgame content over the last year. They just need to add proper rewards to certain activities and the gametime of player will go up.
Something that a lot of people are completely overlooking is when Bungie stated that the deepsight harmonizers being in the season pass is the initial rollout of them, and that they'll see how things go with them, and then will see where else they can put them to offer more of them to the player. A lot of people seem to have forgotten that, though I will admit that we don't know when that may happen
More likely it's gonna end up in Eververse rather than GMs etc 😅
If Eververse Bright Engrams had a true knockout system, the community would probably be a lot less upended.
Even with a knockout system there’s probably like 100 ghost peojections, spawn animations, blue emotes that enter the pool every season anyways. Cross made that point in the video. The Engram pool is getting more diluted with “trash” over time anyways
Thanks Rhulk
The Upended is alive. You have no more tasks ahead. Lie down and embrace the darkness beyond your final days.
The Upended. A title suitable for that which turns worlds upside down. When I was still uninitiated, I would stand guard at my post. I would look to the sky and see the two suns of my Lubrae: one eternally shaded in the dark, the other always a brilliant blue. And in them, I had seen the folly of our kind. A fear of something we believed bigger than us… and a reliance on that which kept us. That blue sun that we harnessed our power from… a simple reversal of that power cracked the blue in half. Shut it off. And Lubrae… died. I did not know it at the time, but it was necessary. And now that Savathûn has trapped me within these walls, it will be necessary again. My Witness… whether I survive Savathûn's betrayal or not, the Upended will ensure we salvage our perfect goal. The final abyss… awaits us all.
When I stood on that precipice, watching the only world I knew collapse under its own weight… I was prepared for the splendor of abyssal eternity. But you brought me forth, my Witness. Freed me from the world that imprisoned me. Made me see the ultimate truth, one I could never see alone… That on my planet Lubrae, who I was, where I was, what I believed mattered - all amounted to absolute insignificance. I keep this mural not as some worthless sentimental reminder of what I lost, but of the opposite - of what I gained. Power. Truth of the inconsequence of most. Control over the universal strings of fate. For all this, I am eternally grateful, my Witness.
It was your infinite wisdom, my Witness, that led me into the planet's great sea… and face to face with that which was believed to be unbeatable. You instilled in me a true understanding of wanton domination. Not for pleasure, but as a means to achieve our absolute finality. When I reached the creature known to some as the Leviathan, it laid its thoughts bare. "Turn from the deep, fearmonger," it relayed. "I know what you seek. Press on, and you will drown in it." "I do not drown," I spoke with a defiant tongue. In a mere infinitesimal measure of time, I held a rib of this beast in one hand and pushed aside its maimed vessel with the other. "I rise."
Puppets, all of them. Every last Krill. Every last Hive. I once believed in a higher calling as they do. But you know that. You rescued me from that. Eternal appreciation doesn't even scratch the surface of what I owe you for the gifts you gave me. I know you hoped the Krill would see it too. We tried. We really did. But we had to let them struggle… All because of a belief that purpose had finally found them. Given them strength to conquer an oppressive homeworld. How else were they to grow? Their loss, however, is for them to grieve, not us. We will continue forward. Greater purpose awaits, my Witness.
"Conqueror," many called me. Again and again, I heard this word. Lobbed my direction not with admiration, but with malice. "Not a conqueror," I would respond with glee. "What, then?" they would ask. I do not tell them, my Witness. As you so graciously taught me, I show them. Just as I did in the unholy den of those starving "worm gods." I'll not forget the stench of their rotting flesh… or the way they cowered as I drew near. But they soon learned I was not to be feared. In the end, I left them only a promise of sustenance, and in return, they became chattel for our greater purpose: absolute finality. And as I walked away, their fountainhead in tow, I could hear them whisper with respect: "Subjugator."
*UPENDED*
I must say I never thought when watching Aztecross's video that he was implying any of it was Datto's fault.
He wasn’t. Datto seems to think cross can and does control what a millionth of his player base says, and chose to use this point to negate people’s opinions about how he’s sat around on his arse all these years while this previously mentioned slippery slope has gotten greasier and scummier, and increasingly hard to stay on top of.
@@Alex-ug9wxDatto dosent think that either, but since Datto's video has been used and people pinged him on his streams and Twitter he made a video about it.
Besides, datto made his piece two years ago, once when armor ornaments came out and the Foreververse video he made after that.
Hell half the stuff said in this video was what he said IN that video
@@Amirifiz I’m sorry but I refuse to believe his claims here.
He claimed that sooooo many people took cross’s video as a vehicle for blaming him, that he had to make a video to clear the air. I haven’t seen a single person claiming it was datto’s fault.
That being said, he absolutely should have said something more recently, especially on recent changes, and he really needs to stop being as shilly as he sometimes comes across. I think he’s a good content creator but it really seems like bungie and by extension destiny has bought his soul, and so he’s completely unable to process the concept of criticism. Just my opinion though!
@@Alex-ug9wxyou are 100% spot on. He is, and always has been, Bubgies golden boy. He will NEVER critique them to any serious degree because he is 100% bought.
Yeah, it did sound more like: "Datto called this out ages ago", that's why his video was part of Cross's video. He just basically said: "Datto said way back, that this can go very wrong one day. See, it did" and that's all there is to it :D
10:32 Your point is wrong. The community does not expect dungeons to be FREE. We expect dungeons to be included in the OVERPRICED DLC, the way things used to be.
To add to this, we can argue that Prophecy wasn’t even free to begin with. Beyond Light has no dungeon, Prophecy was just released a couple months before the expansion, technically including it with BL.
Careful. He was creating a strawman to disregard the fair arguments made by those who don’t want to pay hundreds per year to access the same (in fact, worse) content year after year.
prophecy was realesed in season of arrivals and this season was included with shadowkeep wich was year 3 of destiny 2.
beyond light started year 4 of destiny 2.
This mean that shadowkeep got 2 dungeon in the yearly offering one with the extension and the other free during a season.
Season of arrivals has been removed from de the game but prophecy is still free to this day wihch prove is point in the video.
i agree that dungeon should be tied to season/extension but prophecy has a dungeon, his the same as the other except is free.
Exactly, they're supposed to be included in the expansions we pay for.
Something to note is that all those dungeons which came in the expansion, prophecy included, did not have their own unique weapons, and most didn't have their own unique armor either, aside from the exotic weapon in each of them.
It was only with grasp of avarice, when we started paying for dungeons, that a full unique set of loot was made the standard.
If we make an assumption about cause and effect here (and I will admit, it is an assumption, but that's the best we've got), then realistically, we can look at that as evidence that giving out more money for these dungeons not only allows bungie to make more of them, but also allows bungie to fill them with new loot that is desirable.
Datto even mentions this within the video. The more new loot that comes in a dungeon, the higher the cost of production, and I don't know about you but I'm not exactly running shattered throne or pit of heresy anymore. Why would I? Everything good I could get from them can be farmed as world drops.
If paying for dungeons keeps us getting unique loot, I'm gonna keep paying for dungeons.
Ok. But then seasonal prices have to go up
I think my biggest want for Datto to respond was about the clip 'you'll have my rage.'.
What I've seen from Datto these past few years is apathy and even a feeling that he thinks the community is a bit entitled. There is no rage from him. There isn't even a 'slightly miffed', just a shrug and acceptance that Bungie gonna Bungie and I get a feeling of a bit of "don't bite the hand that feeds you".
I get it. Priorities shift as time goes on. What used to be important can become insignificant, and what was minor can become important as someone moves through life.
That was a clip of him excusing stepping on that slippery slope, saying that he would be there to be another voice speaking out about it. And that's not the case. He's rarely speaking out about it, and that's only after being hounded to speak out about it.
I get the feeling from the few times that he has spoken about these things, it's a "I've said my piece, it's on the internet for those who want that information. Moving on." That's not adding your voice, that's adding a footnote.
Someone needs to pin this
@@MichaelBrown-kk8wo I'm not expecting it. He's made it clear that he thinks this point of contention was lost _long_ ago, and this isn't something that customers can fight. Too many people will just not care and continue to throw money at companies because it's worth it for them, and it's not our place to tell people what to do with their money.
He's mostly right. It _isn't_ our place to tell people how to spend their money, nor is a relatively small amount of people who are aware of what is happening going to move anything. What needs to happen is education, and that requires a concerted effort of people with large platforms constantly talking about the issues and potential actions to fix the issues.
Some random commenting on a RUclips comment isn't going to do that, especially with a comment that isn't a snippet and made a while after the RUclips video went up. What is though is someone with a large audience that can speak from a place of authority, not letting it go....
This this and this.
@@leadpaintchips9461which he can lead that effort by keeping the pressure on.
@@leadpaintchips9461you can tell people how to spend their money. It doesn’t mean it’ll do jack for most, but it affects some.
I agree with your point on Prophecy, but the argument of most people isn't that dungeons should be free, it's that they should be included in the paid content of the season they release in
Yes, this!
I get some of the confusion with marketing but come on, Prophecy has been the only dungeon to kinda part of a season. Everything else has either been a standalone purchase (Grasp, Duality, Spire, Ghosts) or was part of an expansion (Shattered and Pit). We've literally never had a dungeon included with a season. I think it would be nice and I'd definitely like them to be included but why do you guys think that's going to happen? What has Bungie done to indicate that Dungeons would be included with the season purchase? I don't get it tbh
Exactly. Either seasons quality shouldnt include dungeons because they're a completely seperate purchase and entity, or dungeons should be counted under the seasonal grind and what to do in the season and be purchasable in the season.
@@underscore_5450 Then make it part of the Expansion price. They already raised the price for no reason multiple times and it now includes less content than what freaking Shadowkeep had.
@@underscore_5450oh idk maybe two DLCs called Shadowkeep(pit of heresy) and Forsaken(shattered throne), one of which that has had most of it's content completely removed but is still sold as a 30 bucks legacy pack
Oh btw, how are you liking you're new enemy veriety of one and the many new strikes ?
“If I had a nickel for every Destiny RUclipsr that posted a reaction video today I would have a lot of nickels.”
"If I had a nickel for every Destiny RUclipsr that posted a reaction video today I would have two nickels, which isn't a lot but weird that it happened twice."
@@ProfessuhLemonyea that's just so far today. It's actually been so out of hand I've started to unfollow people
Wait have you always been forcer69
DUDE AZTECROSS REACTING TO THE BYF VIDEO LIKE A COUPLE HOURS AGO NOW THIS💀💀
@@meanerminnermina7333he feeding the flames so people will come by his side 😂
Bungie: Wait, did Datto just say the content of a season pass is worth $45.....*ups the price of seasons to $45
Hard disagree on the expectation being that dungeons should be free. The expectation is that dungeons are included as part of content you paid for, and not an additional paid surcharge. You can still buy it that way if you buy the deluxe/annual pass version of the expansion.
then there's me who's like, the only person who remembers Bungie justifying the Eververse by saying "microtransactions will help bankroll side content like Dungeons (and etc) so they can be free"
sunk cost fallacy coping. bungie is gonna keep milking yall d2 players for all you’re worth and im gonna enjoy marathon when that gets the majority of their attention after release . especially since destiny pvp got abandoned forever ago.
@@ewaysrevenge Really, you're gonna give Bungie your money after this? Regardless if its "has their attention," whatever that means. Technically D2 has their attention, in how they can implement more ways of implementing FOMO. Nothing says they arent going to do that to Marathon as well.
@@iamoctonateto be frank I quite literally could not care less about what happens to destiny 2 now the micro transactions killed my love for the game and if marathon does well then ima have to give it a shot .
I think Aztecross did a good job using clips from Datto's monetization video to make his point
We hear you and now announce that seasons will cost 25 per month!
I don't think Aztecross made any good points in that video.
@@Sanosukeafoit's okay that your media literacy is low cuz other people understood his points and it resonated with most of his audience
@nailinthefashion Most of his audience are low IQ children who can't grapple with reality yet. I mean, in the entire video he raged about "pay to win" and then failed to define it correctly or identify any P2W examples in D2. Not exactly a compelling video.
@@SanosukeafoI’d recommend rewatching it with an adult present next time
How did people mistaken cross using Datto's voice-over, while showing the items in the season pass, as some sort of stab. It was clear as day the intention behind that clip @ around 28:20 was to show that Datto's take of bungie implementing things has aged like fine wine. Literally at the start of his video Cross explains that.
For the same exact reason Datto got so triggered by it as he explains in the above video. You're asking why as if datto himself didn't see it in the exact same way. Cross is simply saving face when Datto reached out. Cross' video speaks for itself. Shit's gonna hit 1 million views sooner than later.
Someone’s gotta pay for all the upkeep. And when there’s not enough money to upkeep the game, it turns to shit. Bungie doesn’t want to be stuck exclusively making destiny, it makes sense, but with all the complaints of extra purchases the in thing to be negative about, a lot of multiplayer games are getting put in the ground cause they can’t pay to upkeep the shit.
@@rjmacready6693 Nah I’m just saying people take anything out of context and turn it into something completely opposite of what it was intended to show. I’m not asking why did Dayton take it like that and have the conversation with Cross, i’m just confused on how the people who kept dm spamming and @ing him took that one piece of cross video out of context. Datto literally states that he didn’t take it that way and ONLY after took it that way after so many people kept saying the same thing and got worried about the intention of that said clip.
@@ayMochii highlighting your own comment....fart in the wind bud and always comes off defensive. Which is fine thats your prerogative. Not my way of articulating my stance on YT but that's okay. Datto literally reached out to Cross because "it bothered him". Only after Cross telling him no no it's all chocolate and hearts did Datto feel like it was simply a misunderstanding of Cross' reasoning for including Datto's take on micros not once but multiple times in his viral video. And didn't know Datto's real name was Dayton but now your initial take makes more sense than it did before I knew you know Datto's real name. Hope you enjoy your day homie.
@@rjmacready6693 ?? The Dayton thing was just autocorrect and I don’t highlight comments cause idek know how to. I barely ever comment but I thought this was something I had to say. Idk what’s your deal but I wasn’t trying to argue when I responded back. I was trying to clarify my meaning cause you clearly didn’t understand what I was saying
I think the issue with the Dungeon keys is that the dungeons they apply to are also listed as content in the season bundle, in order to make it look more substantial, When you need to buy the key separately. There is a reason toy commercials have to have a disclaimer about "batteries sold separately", otherwise you have been sold a product that doesn't work as advertised. Technically speaking, You said that people spending the money are in the driver's seat, but there is one group who can have greater effect on monetization. The Legal department. Lootboxes have seen a sudden drop in use due to legislation being threatened, the same will happen if a suit is pressed and wins.
Can we start a lawsuit?
@@beetsbyzey4658Probably but I'm not a lawyer.
I'm just glad someone points out how wallet voting generally doesn't work online and game companies account for this ratio. For every 10 people you rally against buying things, there's some guy in Nebraska none the wiser that's absolutely hyped to buy 10 people's worth of cosmetics because he feels its worth it.
The issue is how insanely mainstream video games have become.
Remember when Magic the Gathering was going to release Restricted Masters sets, reprinting restricted cards at 1,000$ a box?
Yeah the MtG community is small enough, their collective stink caused WotC to cancel the set.
For gaming? Hardcore dedicated players now are such a small concentric circle within the large community, our problems don’t matter.
Because some idiot who doesn’t know better WILL spend money.
Nail on the head. The prime for video games has long gone.
@@floridaman6643 LONG gone. If you want your voice heard you play indie games.
the only actual way to combat this stuff is what a large portion of gamers refuse to accept & actively fight against which is politics. there is a reason predatory monetization is less effective in EU than other regions. because the EU has actively taken steps to mitigate it. China has done the same in the past couple years. meanwhile in countries like the US, consumers are actively throwing away their rights and mindlessly defending corporate greet & predatory monetization because fanboyism and rampant video game addiction is being normalized.
well they can point it out all they want but its incorrect. bitching and moaning and boycotting on mass gets things changed.
Dungeons shouldn't be free, but they should be included with the expansion. Them being completely separate from the campaigns or the seasons is egregious in monetization and is one of the main factors keeping people out of the game for me (anecdotal for sure, but I'm talking about 10 separate people)
U no kno how much money dungeon take to make, this take is uninformed
@@TheAcidicMolotov how much does it cost my man?
If it shouldn't be free then you are saying they should raise the price of dlc? That now forces everyone to pay more instead of who wants to play dungeons.
@@omensoffate idk but im not going to claim it takes no money to make. Thatd be pretty foolish of me to do.
@@TheAcidicMolotovso you responded to an uninformed take with an uninformed take?
Ive never liked the monetization set up in the game....but $20 for 1 armor set (Jin) is complete fkn bs.
It's extra funny (and sad) cause all the games they do collabs with in order to overcharge for these armor sets either have their Destiny collab content at significantly cheaper prices (Fortnite, AC Valhalla), or simply don't have Destiny content cause they're great single-player games without microtransactions (God of War, Ghost of Tsushima, Horizon).
Destiny players seem doomed to get the shortest end of the stick no matter who Bungie chooses to collaborate with, which should really tell us how bad the MTX system in this game is compared to the industry standard.
Not only that but the price has been increasing season to season regarding crossover armor. We had the previous set sold for 2200, then they went oopsie and put an "on sale" icon next to it, not even lowering the price... and now the next set costs even more.
Call of duty:
It sucks but really it’s fairly standard. Look at Diablo 4, wildly popular game and a new cosmetic set is $20 as well, and that’s in a top down dungeon crawler game. Look at ESO, it’s a whopping $60 for a style unlock on that game. Cosmetics are getting more and more expensive because people keep buying them. Destiny is really no particular case in this regard unfortunately.
Think it all you want, enough people buy it for bungie to not care. Datto has a point - you just aren't the target audience for these armor sets
On the topic of Destiny 2 being more of a free trial than a free to play, I think Aztecross mention those 2 games because despite having MTX, all of the actual content is available with only non-gameplay related content being locked behind a pay wall (skins, etc.) In comparison to D2, with paywalled story and other massive content, making it more of a free trial or even a demo rather than an actual free 2 play game. I don't think it deserves to merely be brushed aside as mere semantics.
Yeah. It's pretty obvious that was the reason for the comparison. The fact Datto dismisses Aztec's point as semantics is in my opinion indicative of his attitude in general.
It's sad to say but I think Datto's opinion on these topics is null and void. People keep asking his opinion, so that's not his fault, but he's a content creator who earns his income covering one game. His perspective of monetisation and the content being offered is warped for a multitude of reasons, to name a few - has far more money than the average player, plays the game for work and had been doing so for a very long time now.
While Aztec is in a similar position, from my perspective he is usually far more objective and engaged with the average player experience.
I'm not trying to insult Datto. I just think, whether he realises it or not, his opinions these days feel like someone who is talking about their day job
@@NonConformistNinjasecause it is his day job. It pays the bills. Therefore, I don't expect him to be subjective about anything related to destiny... Clearly. Whenever people call him out on his bullshit he acts like an elitist and like he knows better than everybody. It's actually funny at times
@@NonConformistNinjas It's actually semantics.
In today's age of extremist, it's either full black or full white. People are so obsessed with 3 letters acronym that they argue uselessly with no one being fully right or fully wrong coz they don't go enough into details.
Just add a couple letters or numbers.
FTT20% or FTT40% or FTP60% or FTP100%.
@@rotuivongue3896 no its actually not semantics.
Being able to play the entire game for free and only monetizing the cosmetics is far different than playing 1/5th of the game and having a paywall for the rest.
Thats not semantics thats you getting cut off for things that are relevant to the experience.
I come across your videos several years back and you were very lively, passion driven and enthusiastic for game(s).
comparing to you now though. you have the facial expression and tone of voice of doing a job you've grown sick/tired of and just want to leave but you can't since the paycheck is good enough to keep a roof over you're head, food on the table and to pay bills. here's hoping you find a job/game that does make you genuinely happy instead of making you feel and look dead inside.
When you realize exotic emotes used to be the same price as a whole season. Now there just a tad more expensive.
Eververse is just overpriced. No way an emote needs to cost that much or a ship/sparrow
That's the thing they don't need to cost that much, but it makes them more money to have it that way than to change it.
Might be able to get away with like mocap or some shit as an excuse for emotes. Some chucklehead has to do all those stupid poses. Granted, I don't think they're worth the price point either, but it's good to be able to think like a corporation.
heres the thing tho, Bungie didnt set the prices of emotes, Epic did with fortnite, Bungie, like MANY other studios, just copy and pasted fortintes pricing model, down the the rarity of items, imo its unfair to say Bungie is in the wrong, not because they aren't, but because it comes off as saying Bungie is the ONLY one in the wrong, its why I NEVER complain about Destiny's microtransactions, or Fortnites, or CODs, I complain about GAMINGS microtransactions, because this isn't an issue about [insert company] is greedy its an issue that the gaming industry is greedy
they’re*
I have no problem with cosmetics costing money. I do however have a problem with a “free” to play game having little to nothing to do for FTP players. Seasons cost money. Dungeons cost money, of course dlc costs money. You can’t play certain things without having the dlc either so it’s less like a free game and more like a free trial
Elder Scrolls Online does the bundles in the best way. Every year when a new expansion drops there's always a bundle that just includes ALL the previous expansions + the most current one and it tends to only be slightly pricier than the current expansion price.
I have not a single clue as to why Bungie doesn't do the same thing, it's like they're intentionally trying to scare off new players.
@@emogambino295 Gonna be honest, I genuinely don't believe you know what you're talking about. ESO has never "fallen". It got some flack towards the start because for some reason people thought it'd be Skyrim online when in reality it was an Elder Scrolls themed MMO but it's not like it's existence was ever threatened. It's always had a thriving player base.
Also Bethesda did not develop ESO, Zenimax Online Studios did.
@@emogambino295ahh yes being one of the 3 big mmo’s currently on the market is “fallen”
@@emogambino295 FFXIV does the same so its not unique or because ESO had a bad start.
Question. Ive never played any elder scrolls games but like destiny and other mmos. Is it too late to start elder scrolls online?
@@TheAcidicMolotovnah m8, they just dropped a new expac, great time to get in, no level requirement to play it.
All this video accomplishes is running defence for Bungie. We'll probably never go back to the purchase model of the 90s / 2000s but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be vocal about the problems and our experiences. Bungie is flagrantly double dipping with $60-100 annual expansions combined with an aggressive $10-20 per item shop that belongs in a free to play game.
Other games seem to be able to inject content into their game at regular intervals funded by micro transactions alone but somehow for Bungie that's an issue and we buy that excuse? Sorry can't throw you a PvP map this year as part of your $100 expansion, the money just wasn't in the budget, better luck next year. Dungeons reusing art assets and old boss models? Yeah $90 won't cover those, we're gonna need the extra $20. Fuck that. I think it's really easy to convince yourself $20 here or $5 there is ok because Bungie needs the support, but when it's put in the context of you just paid $500 for 5 years of this game, not including Eververse in addition, it's grossly out of line with norms in the industry.
I firmly believe Aztecross' video summing up how bad it's gotten had an impact on some people's perception of the game and will convince some people not to get their friends into destiny and a few to walk away. Will it sink the game over night? Of course not, but if that sentiment builds up and the numbers from Bungie suddenly don't make sense anymore they will be forced to change or cave. You know what's not going to make the situation better? Excuses and telling people that even though it sucks they can't do anything so better just get used to it. This video accomplishes nothing other than covering for Bungie.
I think my only issue here is how easily Datto dismissed the whole "buying content is P2W" when subclasses are locked behind said-content. If they weren't locked away then I'd agree, but Stasis when it came out, or Strand now are somewhat essential to PvP.
I see what you're saying. But those are from expansions anyway. Which the vast majority of active players are buying anyway. The game isn't free to play, with the option to buy new subclasses. Its a paid game with a somewhat substantial trial version.
I mean at that point you could say the entire game is P2W because the best weapons are behind expansions. And at that point you start to lose me.
@@OhYeah_ it’s true though isn’t it? Bungie can’t slap “FTP” on their brand and then put witherhoard or ace of spades behind paywalls. One of which is a vaulted DLC, and is still £20. Both of these weapons are king in PVE and PVP respectfully and are absolutely essential. Especially wither.
@@Alex-ug9wx yes I agree that the game is only free to try. But how can you not expect there to be new weapons and armour with paid expansions. And for those weapons and armour to be better than your previous gear. That’s sort of how loot based games work.
@@OhYeah_ typically though, it helps you get it faster. This is why I liked the idea of quicksilver being available for a few months to the deluxe edition buyers, and then available to standard edition buyers when the next season dropped. The same should be for the exotic kiosk.
Something like “buy the expansion and unlock these weapons for FREE (don’t have to buy them for in game resources) and then those who DON’T buy the expansions can buy them with the shards, cores, prisms, ascendant shards, etc.
Something that still makes it accessible to players through a grindy process, so it is still a good idea to buy the expansion, but it isn’t REQUIRED. Because as it stands now, THAT is P2W. You get subclasses, weapons that have been meta for years, etc, etc.
For example, can you imagine if graviton lance was in the kiosk in an expansion section? How would that NOT be pay to win? It’s dominating the PVP meta at the moment, and will for ages.
It’s the same with immortal. In case you don’t play PVP, it’s still, far and away, the BEST gun in the game. You have to PAY to access trials, which you then get the immortal from. That’s absurd. It’s been out for nearly half a YEAR and is still the most oppressive gun in the game.
Ah, finally I can now have an opinion on the video. Thank you Datto!
this joke never gets old haha
@@ricenokimchiit’s always funny
it's even funnier the 500 millionth billionth time
I always appreesh when Datto tells me how I feel as well
@@cwj2733 not only that, but it’s shockingly accurate 🤣
We should really stop calling them “micro transactions” as there really isn’t anything micro about them anymore. It’s getting to a point of choosing between a full meal or a skin lol
for 20$ i can get lunch at taco bell
Don’t buy the skin. You don’t need them so just don’t buy it, you know the prices are dumb so why’re you even considering it.
@@A_Cool_Tunafish I’m not saying I’m getting to a point of choosing between food or skin. im saying in general the prices of a skin in games are hitting a ridiculous point. I personally haven’t bought anything from a micro transaction in years.
@@A_Cool_Tunafish the projection police has stopped by
@@jak_2don’t worry dude, people love making strawman arguments to defend gargantuan corporations like bungie who are making record profits and delivering less for what we pay for. There will always be bootlickers salivating at the thought of letting their tongues touch a company’s shoe.
1:56 Not to be that guy, but to be that guy, Warframe has those conversations. The amount of good will in terms of honesty of the company when it comes to microtransactions is almost unbelievable but they manage it. There is a way to make good money on your game and still treat your playerbase as your equal.
This felt like a destiny defense video. Everything was like “yaaasss that’s kind of true butttttt” 🤦🏼♂️😂 For sure a step in the wrong direction. They need to change a lot.
Datto is a well known bungie bootlicker, he has a lot of connections their too and I’m guessing money is involved
If this community had some semblance of a backbone and stopped buying silver, we wouldn't be having these conversations. These are insanely transparent marketing and monetization practices that millions of rubes fall for over and over again.
Are they rubes? Or enjoying the game differently while you fume at them? I understand the frustration but at some point we have to just accept the world is dictate by people which in turn dictate the markets
Do you think people care about that? They will buy as long they enjoy product lmao
Lol, the last 10 years of mobile gaming gonna put a hurt on your plan. Gaming is getting more and more accepted in our culture. That means more normies which gaming isn't a hobby to. Indy is our only hope.
@@TheAcidicMolotov I think the whole drama behind all of this is that, no, we don't have to accept any of this. There is more content and cosmetics locked behind eververse paywalls than ever before. We used to enjoy a less monetized version of this game just a few short years ago. Maybe a better term would be "whales" instead of rubes (i would argue they're the same thing) A small of percentage of players who buy literally everything.
@@bshonka1 what about the people who buy dlcs
There is a middle ground between free dungeons and the dungeon key. The dungeons could be included with the the purchase of the season. Much like Pit and Throne were included with expansions, Ghosts of the Deep should come with Season of the deep or Lightfall
It would just mean less profit and potentially fewer dungeons made.
@@icekyuu Bungie's already making record profits. And we're getting lesser and lazier content season by season. Not to mention NO real content for Crucible or Gambit for a LONG time. We haven't really seen evidence of this claim that more profit = more content for Destiny.
At this point it should be clear to you that more profit just means more resources devoted to Marathon.
As a new player just before Lightfall released, buying all the things that was needed was a nightmare imo I literally had to look up articles on what I needed. I got super into the game with about 300 hours, and I hadn't done a dungeon. After buying the pass, previous expansions, the new one and a few bits I wanted, I was instantly turned off once I saw I needed to spend more money just to access a dungeon. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be the only person that this happened too either!
@@ashb7 many assumptions in this onw comment though, you have no way of knowing anything you said is true
@@TheAcidicMolotov really? We don't know they're making record profits, when a simple Google search for "Bungie revenue YoY" should tell you that? You know this information is public right?
And my other statements aren't assumptions either, they're inferences based on what we've experienced, unless you refuse to acknowledge that Crucible and Gambit have barely gotten any content over the last few years, or we've started getting more reskins than ever before, or that Bungie decided to not honor their promise of vendor armor refreshes every year. While pumping out more Eververse stuff than ever before.
What, then, are the profits from increased season prices, multiple new forms of monetisation, and overpriced collab ornaments getting us in Destiny? Please, help me understand how huge amounts of profits have translated into more content for Destiny.
Btw love the off the cuff styled vids, tbh ur commentary is legendary
Really happy that you and Cross don't have beef. Love watching you both
In terms of expac bundles, I think everything that’s older than 2 years should be free. Somthing similar to what blizzard does for WoW.
I definitely get your apathy. For me it's less apathy and more resignation. I hate all this monetisation, and I remember the good old days where you bought a game and had a game, when horse armour was a meme. The consumer has lost so much ground to the companies and I don't know what is needed to reign all this in
He is right. It is an already lost battle. Oblivion Horse Armor was a meme, but people bought it. Pricing and monetization is always "what will the consumer pay for, and how much?" All video games are a product to be sold, the current situation is because there is a market for what they are selling. There is nothing we can do about it - we did vote with our wallets and we were outvoted by those who bought the Horse Armor.
Find a day for all gamers to stop playing until they stop the BS then negotiate 😊❤
We can’t ever stop it, not unless there’s another video game crash like the late 70’s, which would bring it’s own huge issue’s
It is and has always been whale's fault. It doesn't matter how many people don't spend a cent so long as someone with more dollars than sense comes around and decides to buy the entire eververse in a day
You may think that all this monetization is stupid, but it works because there are equally stupid people
Remember that guy who spend 100k on Diablo Immortal? Doesn't matter what literally anyone else did, that one player made it all worth it for Bliz
Bully the shit out of everyone fueling this with their wallets
When datto acted out confronting Aztec got me laughing my ass off so much
I was hoping for an Aztecross impersonation from Datto
i cringed and muted the vid. 30+ year old man acting like that infront of a camera, some problem there for sure. yes its an act but like i said cringe.
@@xNSHD your name is cringe you can't talk.
I think the big reason why people say that Bungie doesn't care about destiny anymore is because since the marathon project was announced(before we knew exactly what it was), most people feel that there has been a decrease in product quality for destiny since that happened.
isnt marathon gonna be a battle royal pvp focused game anyway? it's gonna be their version of fortnite. i shudder and cringe at the thought of another carbon copy of fortnite. so done with that game type being plastered everywhere.
@@robosing225 thought they said it was a extraction game similar to tarkov
@@robosing225mate its not gonna be a a BR it's gonna be and extraction shooter . I hate when people mistake extraction shooters for battle Royales. Think of escape from tarkov or the cycle or dark and darker . This will be the first AAA extraction shooter . But seeing what bungie did to destiny yeah... I have my doubts
@@alpha-uk4mh well i say battle royal because every developer and their grandma are doing battle royals.
It's so overdone and im tired of em. I'm glad to hear they aren't the same thing. Im pretty sure they gonna milk tf outta the game with microxactions like destiny's eververse store.
@@robosing225 if they do that then that automatically kills marathon it would be wise if bungie didn't do that but who knows .
Great! Now we need Datto’s reaction to Aztecross’ reaction to Byf’s reaction to the Witness origin cutscene. Let’s make it happen baby!
And then Evaze’s reaction to Fallout’s reaction to Datto’s reaction to Aztecross’ reaction to Byf’s video
Don’t apologize for uploading ever, your content is fire
@juan6297nobody likes u can guarantee that
@juan6297🤡☝️
@@Narks-then don't watch it?
@@Narks-simple solution, watch or do something else
@@Narks-thats like saying "i dont want to eat whats on my plate" well dont eat it then or eat something else lmao. No ones forcing you
Datto "if they start putting non cosmetics in microtransactions imma have something to say".
Bungie adds them....
Datto "i have nothing to say"
Did you not watch his video?
@@lemontonkyep, and he excuses Bungle at every turn, blaming us for their predatory practices.
@@iamburkocan you make examples of what you see as excuses at every turn? i think the portion with the EV makes a lot of sense and the whole playerbase does not share the same opinion anyway
@@BRAY_v implying that dungeon price hikes are justified because we “have no clue how much time and money goes into designing them”… so somehow that justifies a ginormous price increase.
It gives off the same vibes as “game developing is hard, so you shouldn’t be demanding your money back because the servers are broken 4 hours every day”.
Servers were down 3 times in 24 hours the other week. Each time over an hour. MATCHMAKING didn’t work. The most integral part of this game was BROKEN for over an hour. This is NOT acceptable.
Can you imagine if GTAO’s menu suddenly didn’t let players load into the game? I imagine rockstar would be in a shitstorm they would probably not recover from for at least a few weeks.
With bungie though? The players EXPECT it and EXCUSE it. You don’t find this level of quality for THIS much money anywhere in the gaming world, and that is a fact.
How best to describe Destiny 2.
"You should've been there."
The game.
A friend of mine is the type that will religiously defend Destiny 2 till the deathbed (primarily due to the time sunk situation).
The game is both the most absolutely beautiful and amazing game due to its content, but on the same note also actively removes its own content.
Stasis is a better argument for P2W than deepsight imo. When it came out, it was busted. Hindsight is 20/20 on the developer side, but it was and it stayed that way for a long time. PvE, PvP, you could pay to just be flat out at a higher power level in terms of lethality
Hell, take the 3rd super in forsaken and strand too.
Those are pay to win
It was understandable in forsaken, but not in beyond light and stasis. A quality of life change such as an element shouldn't be locked behind a paywall in a free to play game
You can say the same about the blade barrage when it first came out.
Honestly I think you're being a bit too nice, the grenades were so comedically busted in pvp that it felt intentional to sell more DLC. There's no game dev in the world that thinks a tracking, multi-target 1.35 second hard cc is fair.
@@gamignman267they literally said stasis intentionally shipped strong. Pretty scummy tbh
@@toxicmachine1895 developers have done that practice for years when making new stuff. They purposely make things strong and then nerf it later down the line.
From Soft did this with DS3
Datto explaining what he means when he says stuff at the beginning, as if people aren't going to take it out of context regardless, will never not crack me up
The cool thing is that because he explains it we can write off those people when they do that.
They dont care about actually informing themselves or their opinions, and so those opinions mean very little.
@@dredgentruth3455 Lies go around the world in the time truth takes to get it's shoes on.
@@cj6498 Good Twain quote. He also said "For the history of our race, and each individual's experience, are sown thick with evidence that a truth is not hard to kill and that a lie told well is immortal."
This is code for "I'm shilling for bungie. While I might disagree with what they do I can't actually say that in case they invite me back to head office" Datto has sold out. Not since that interview with Luke has he called out bungie. His take here is awful and just a cop out. Saying what he says is just his way of defending that awful take.
@@tomh5094 Apples and oranges here man
I’d like to just comment on your thoughts pertaining to the season pass and the dollars to loot ratio. For starters, I’ll preface be saying that I don’t care about the price tag, I’ll agree that forcing players to buy excess silver based on available silver bundles is underhanded tactics and the season pass should be a direct purchase option for sure. As far as the value portion of that segment, while there are some great items in the season pass track, I think what you are forgetting to mention is the time investment that also comes with the price tag. Leveling the season pass is incredibly time consuming and requires a large amount of dedication. Every bit of free time must be used to ensure you get the most out of the season. This also includes the seasonal activities and the grueling process of farming for red borders and godrolls. Also keeping in mind how the new season is fresh and exciting for about a week and then inevitably becomes a chore. It has clearly started sooner than expected this season because I know I’m not the only one who has experienced players leaving Deep Dives immediately after match making. Keep in mind that I am only referring to one character as I pretty much only play my Titan but I can’t even begin to imagine the time invest for someone who chooses to complete all seasonal content on 3 characters. That being the case, I would argue that Bungie gets a far better deal than the community when you factor price/loot/time. Not to mention the fact that they are reinserting sunset weaponry and reskinned the very same weapons right in front of us lol. I don’t usually comment on the Bungie hate because it’s a corporation and I’m a simple gamer but the total lack of respect for the crucible has definitely got under my skin.
One thing about the dungeons you got wrong imo is the fact that before dungeons were linked to the big dlc drop like pit of heresy being tied to the shadowkeep I mean if you bought the shadowkeep automatically you got the pit of heresy aswell even without the annual w/e thing but rn if you want to enjoy the dungeon but havent bought the annual pass ultra turbo deluxe edition of lightfall you need to spend extra for the dungeon and that pulled the trigger for many people out there.
Exactly. And it's not like we are asking for dungeons to be free(although that would be very nice), we are simply asking that the dungeons be included with the standard expansion purchase instead of making us buy a separate dungeon key.
@@rithvikmuthyalapati9754 But then they can't rip off people by selling 1 dungeon for $20. It's entirely community driven phenomena - this would never work in a game populated by 15-18 year-olds. In Destiny 2 it works because Frank comes home from work on Friday & pays that $20 dollars without giving a single F.
Datto I'm always just glad to get vids from you and Aztecross. My fav Titans. 😎👍
7:10 I still think that bungie should make anything older than 2 years free to everyone(currently beyond light and before) I'm pretty sure that most of their revenue comes from the silver and newer dlcs(which are more expensive), and by making this they would retain more players as any free player is more likely to spend on the game(via DLCs and Silver) if they are playing and in the current format a lot of free players just quit the game because of how little they have to do and how much things they need to buy
BuT i PaYeD fUlL pRiCe! ThAt'S nOt FaIr!
Hopefully, some of this gets handled in the post-final shape era, when the new player experience gets revamped.
But yeah, with the Forsaken pack, you’re paying $20 basically just to get access to the exotics, which feels really shitty
@@horrorfan117 the rebutal for that is paying $5 for what you spent $60 is basically free in this market. Also just tell them what content do they actually unlock? They dont even get anything meaningful, basically minimal to no difference from not owning it.
At least bungo should make Shadowkeep and Beyond Light free so the New Lights can have some story missions and a subclass to grind as starter content
Or just bundles all the previous 2 years old DLC as a complete bundles in a discount rather than selling it separately. Is just confusing for new players.
I've actually been really enjoying the datto reaction stuff, keep it up c:
Outsider perspective: If you have to pay for an expansion and then pay individually for each dungeon of said expansion you are being scammed boys. That is predatory and deranged. I always wanted to try Destiny 2 in some Steam sale but the sheer amount of paying to access content to pay more for crafting materials to pay more for emotes skins and weapons. It is incredibly off-putting, expensive and convoluted for anybody that is even remotely considering trying this game. D2 genuinely seems like a gigantic flashy store that coincidentally has a game running on the background you can access from time to time between useless purchases.
The problem is not the dungeon should be free or not, the problem is that they stripped away the dungeon that is supposed to be included in a big DLC so people felt like being robbed on how DLC got increased price but got more and more lesser content every year.
but before we only get 1 dungeon per dlc right ?
now it 2 dungeon per year but price should stay the same ?
i mean i get it the dungeon key price is shitty thing but should they just make 2nd dungeon have it own key and not force us have to buy both at the same time ?
@@minhnguyen-fs2iv Remember that we also got 2 raids that comes in the Forsaken Annual Pass before, so that's not an excuse on how Bungie cut the content. Even the simplest thing like strike for example, I don't understand why we used to have 2 strikes like in WQ and Forsaken (Beyond Light too if I'm being generous with Glassway and Proving Grounds) then we only got 1 in Lightfall. I recommended you to watch that NovemberHotel guy, he explained the content cut over the years way better than me.
@@minhnguyen-fs2ivthen make it so one dungeon in included in the dlc, and you have to pay for the other?... Duh?...
@@DavidUtauthese people will exercise mental gymnastics to defend Bungie
I wouldnt say the dlc has less content in it.
The last time a dungeon came with an expansion was shadowkeep, and ill remind you that shadowkeep was pretty bare bones content wise.
Meanwhile, lightfall and the witch queen have had full campaigns with actually engaging content and unique arenas, which dlc like shadowkeep had very little of.
We are seeing less in some places, sure, but overall i think theres a net gain, even if prices are increasing to match that.
10:20 Datto, you are wrong on this point. We don’t expect them to be free. We expect them to be included in the season pass purchase, or even the expansion purchase. You know, what they used to do before even conceiving of Prophecy. The current situation is not worse than getting a free dungeon. It is worse than any pricing structure dungeons have ever had. The truth is, despite cutting dungeons out of expansions, they have gone up in price anyway. Whether or not they included the dungeons in the expansions, they were always gonna raise the price. Bungie is not skimming slim profits off the top. They are gouging their player base.
You should expect them to be less frequent at the very least. We went from getting a dungeon every year, to getting a dungeon every other season. You can't claim gouging when the production levels of dungeons have expanded, and naturally, with that comes a price increase. Whether or not the price is right, is uncertain, that counts on the level of knowledge both you and I have.
Unless you can somehow manifest the direct content to labor to price in how bungie operates, you can't claim they're gouging. You can at best say, it's not worth it to you, and you'd rather go back to a single dungeon a year.
@@cj6498 No, including the dungeons in the expansion would simply justify the jump to $50. I cannot believe people actually defend Bungie for cutting content out of the package that is the expansion while simultaneously raising its price. I’m starting to think this playerbase deserves Bungie. Bungie somehow doubles in size BEFORE the acquisition and I’m expected to believe their margins have remained the same?
Being able to get the armor from seasonal event play objectives i.e. (Festival of Lost/ Dawning) that would be amazing, would remind me of times when I loved playing games in general.
It used to be that way.
Back when D2 came out, the Dawning armor, for example, could be earned from Bright Engrams - yeah. Remember when they were farmable?
You never had to spend anything on Eververse - but then they changed them to be cosmetic only and can now be only gotten with Silver or Bright Dust.
I also agree that event cosmetics should be farmable - that's the point of an event.
"They know more than you!!" Said Bud Light
The only problem I have with the eververse store is that finishers are never available for bright dust.
There’s quite a few items that never go on sale for BD
I think they were available once in s9 for something like 3250 bright dust.
The easy way to convince people buying season level is making artifact mod unlock associated with season level (exp: you'll unlock the final column at level 50 in season).
There is one game referencing the season structure of Destiny 2 already using this technic
I'm going through these as I disagreed with them in the video
1. Apathy, and to a degree the willingness to accept the monetization. You're the largest Destiny content creator, combine that with the other creators who all agree with the insane levels of monetization from either manipulation through lack of transparency, gambling back when they were selling bright engrams, to the price increase and now individually selling dungeons. There is actually something you all can do to varying costs at your own livelihoods. You have combined communities of well over a million people, advocate for changes. It's clear vote with your wallet doesn't work when there's a large enough minority of spenders who outweigh those decisions. Change will probably have to be done at a legislative level. There's tons of gaming creators and advocates you all can combine with to make change from transparency in marketing (like removing premium currencies/forcing all items to have dollar prices) or more extreme measures like making manipulative tactics like FOMO illegal with digital goods (essentially paid goods that are infinite). The choices y'all could make that is of course the most damaging to yourselves, and I accept y'all can't do is gather as many people in the community as you can and quit playing and talking about Destiny for a long period of time (I'm talking a month) at key times when they see sales (events or season releases).
2. Dungeons. I disagree the problem with dungeons is that Shattered Throne was free. Aztecross even hints to the awful marketing making it seem like for the recent dungeon being part of the season. It's clear that separating the dungeons from other larger content is the problem. Players don't want to spend $20 to get 3 dungeons when they're also already spending $48 to get the seasons, $50 to get the expansion. They should have bundled the dungeon with the season pass IMO and when the season ends, have the dungeon be sold separately at a much lower price.
3. Season Pricing. This is partially covered under Apathy, but it's a scummy marketing tactic forcing players to purchase the larger bundle in order to have enough silver to purchase a season pass if they want one (and coincidentally never having enough left over for multiple season passes). I would say petitioning for transparency in microtransactions and asking for legislation to remove this abuse of premium currencies is the only avenue we have left. To add on the value of the season pass, I don't consider the cosmetics we get (1 armor set per class) valuable, you're going along with the arbitrary value Bungie has already set for them being $15 and using that to justify the $12 of the battlepass. The armor sets are arbitrarily set by a marketing team trying to maximize profits based on the amount of whales willing to buy them, this is heavily anti-consumer and again I'd point back to actions we as consumers actually can take to fight against it in point 1.
I would cover holiday events and EV prices, but the former is beat to death and the latter is covered more or less under 1 and 3. I don't think I could convince you of the game being p2w at this point until something you care about is put under that pressure (day 1s or trials). For a player like me, Gjallerhorn was a clear step in them instituting a somewhat p2w model, though the problems the game faces are less to do with p2w and just with how egregious monetization has become. This is a premium game that has seasonal battlepasses, 2 forms of heavy monetization already, it adds on an MTX store effectively stripping greater possible rewards from players for $15 sets and then goes even further to sell dungeons and even certain content (30th anniversary) as another premium. It's disgusting how far Bungie goes with monetization and I wish more creators actually tried fighting it in a more meaningful way.
To anyone who read through this, I hope I've at least made points to consider.
Well said Sir
It makes me sad that we went from "we're inviting a ton of creators to come and give us their genuine opinions and really showing they understand what we want" to "I haven't said anything because I know they won't listen". What happened :(
Defeat from them not listening. Do you stay in relationships where the other person never listens?
Because that only happened in the first place because the game was on the edge of dying, only then Bungie was willing to listen to feedback from youtubers to help them fix the game.
Datto actually talks about this in his initial reaction in his vod. The people at the conferences are gameplay developers. None of them have anything to do with the amount or price of the microtransactions. Datto even says that he knows nobody that deals with those things at Bungie.
Thank the twighlight garrison incident for the lack of community communication
@@A_Cool_Tunafishbro the devs don't know shit about eververse that has literally zero to do with it. Plus they have probably already forgotten about that imagine having a chip on your shoulder about the "twilight garrison incident" childish.
I need a Byf reaction to Datto’s reaction to Aztecross’s reaction to monetization and the lore associated with it
A lore breakdown on how peoples money filling Bungie’s pockets changes our characters looks in the game world
I was waiting for Datto's reaction to this video, after using Datto's clip haha.
On the pay to win bit, just cause there is jo overlapp doesnt mean it isnt pay to win,it is by definition a pay to win system.
30:55 There's a big difference between "caring" about the game and "keeping it profitable/milking it as hard as possible"
Yeah, they wouldn't be adding new subclasses, updating old strikes, adding more content than previously etc. if they didn't care and TFS was their out.
@@TheCubby1985that's milking it.
@@TheCubby1985to clarify, are you being sarcastic and implying bungie do still care about D2, or are you being serious and saying these are all just a means to a very milky end?
@@ScumDogMF if doing anything with the game is milking it then you have to tell us what is caring about the game
@@TheCubby1985 I'm not saying they're not adding any good content. GotD is very good, recent QoL updates have been nice. But we gotta remember here that this is a **$100 per year** game (even more if you buy things separately). No matter how you twist it, it simply does not feel right to be nickel and dimed, more and more stuff getting put in Eververse AFTER already paying $100. Add onto that the mostly very stale copy-paste seasons we had the last 2 years and **absolute** neglect of PvP and, no, Bungie does not truly care about the players having a good experience.
You see, deepsight harminizors wouldn't be a problem if we didn't need more then 1 weapon pattern to craft a weapon
Dang, when did datto become a bungie shill
I was just thinking about getting back into this game too. Glad I didn’t.
I know someone that bought the 100 levels and they only did it for the ornament set. He didn’t even care about harmonizers. He farmed last wish for the new red borders
Josh Strife Hayes has an excellent series called "Worst MMO Ever?" in which he plays many terrible, predatory games and goes over exactly _why_ their monetization is predatory. Seeing those kinds of tactics invade Destiny 2 has my enthusiasm for the game at an all-time low, and I am currently not even considering playing during Final Shape.
JSH might be one oglf the greatest content creators of all time.
Josh is great, I wish he makes a video about Destiny one game
Wow, it’s all cosmetics get a grip
@@A_Cool_Tunafishyea, I don't get what people are on about about "predatory".
These micros aren't pay2win items. They are purely cosmetic and don't give adventages or disadventages, they just give you drip.
People talking about p2w mmo should go play lost ark and tell me how that goes
i really do appreciate a lot of the big destiny content creators are speaking up on these topics, and to have these reactions is great to atleast have these conversations because you guys are people that have a platform to bring attention to them. Thank you Datto
They still dont cover it in a way that does the topic justice, its just the same big brown nosed d2 youtubers treading the thin line between them giving water downed opinions and keeping their positive standing with bungie for free benefits and trips….there are other creators that do it better notice how the same big cringe d2 youtubers are the only ones to start a chain for nothing. You can be honest for the sake of change but the smaller channels that do this get bashed for being negative…its honestly sad that the community only accept these takes from the fake positive money hungry d2 youtubers
@@justsomeguy2142 I agree with this 1000%
@@xxsteadexx2297 such a polarized community we are a part of lmao
@@justsomeguy2142honestly GJ was 100% honest and unfiltered. Cross was similar (a bit more polite and a bit too lenient), and then Datto is pretty much always absolving bungie of responsibility. I do 100% agree with this though. Content creators are in a weird spot that they can take advantage of both the community and bungie, and still make money from both.
@@Alex-ug9wx "Datto is pretty much always absolving bungie of responsibility." He definitely isn't though. He's just explaining their possible reasoning and incentive (money obv) but isn't saying that he supports most of what he had to explain. That's what the a lot of the intro was about. He's also explained multiple times how apathetic he mostly is to microtransactions because he knows that Bungie will never change course.
New RUclipsr meta - reacting to reaction videos. It also has an infinite loop if you keep going, one of the best farms on the platform.
Byf needs to do an in depth lore video on this exchange of sequences
I like these videos. I think the reason Destiny gets in such huge ruts is because more prominent CCs & Streamers that have a voice & platform. Even if Bungie isn't really listening. Having zero push back allows them to run the ball further down the field without resistance.
The only resistance that works is people stop paying. The streamers are constantly complaining about monetization. You gotta accept the fact that people just want to play the game and not join a revolt
Stop paying then ig. And then watch the game get shutdown cause they don’t have any means of producing updates. And can’t use the “back then” argument. Those times they never post launch updated a game. They just started making a new one. But so many people want to be able to continue playing their favorite game, so as a company u get stuck trying to find ways to make money to pay ur employees to constantly work the game and keep the servers running. This has been a thing with MMOs. IMO mtx is disgusting when your game doesn’t have expansions or content updates and is just a PvP game, cause they aren’t putting in any substance 90% of the time
@@TheAcidicMolotov as the video stated: you actually cannit play Destiny 2 without being hoarded by Monetization. The in-game store pushes you to spend money even if you havnt spent any money on the store. Bungie did this intentionally. Im not a Destiny player but even I watched the whole 2 hour total video
@@Vanished584 you can be hoarded by monetization, but not forced to buy. YOu have self control and control youre own money. If you cant handle not paying for things then we should reconsider how we spend our money
@@TheAcidicMolotov We know people cant control themselves. If you can save time to buy things off the store then people will do it. And those who wont use the in-game store just quit the game anyway becuase their time Is being wasted
I appreciate you continually telling me what my opinion is on things. Thanks, bro 🎉
I’m really appreciating him saying we’re dumb and Bungie is smart.
Last I checked, the customer is right. I know what I want, fuck this “You think you want that, but you don’t.” Bullshit.
@@edwardweaver6869 I don't know what you're referencing.
@@alzyllahe’s talking about how many people actually and legitimately take dattos opinion as their own.
People constantly quote him whenever they see someone criticising the game
@@JPOG7TV my bad. I more so meant to imply we must've watched different videos as we had different takeaways.
He's saying we collectively are stupid for thinking we know more sales data than Bungie on who is purchasing their content and at what price. As soon as he said that, I knew someone would prove him right and not understand what he is saying.
Reacting to a video that has yourself in it for a small bit is prime content
I cannot stand the "other companies do it so its fine." excuse... holy moly
Yeah, if this is normal. Then the new normal sucks.
Yeah it’s just an easy way to say “I’m not gonna question it”
@@aaronsdaboss whenever some shill tries to justify these shady business practices, the bar is lowered the more people agree with said shill.
it's people like those who allowed this to get so out of hand. people forget we have the power to make a difference. but most are comfortable spending their whole check on in-game content.
For fucking real
Blame Capitalism, not Datto
I’m so glad you made a video about this, looking forward to get a laugh.
Did people skip the intro or something? He’s just explaining WHY things are the way they are; not why they’re good or justified 2:30
The thing about them 'only caring about Marathon' is that we KNEW they were working on a new title quite some time ago. We already knew it was in the works, and now we SEE this new game showing as a promo. We can then clearly associate the haphazard updates to Destiny 2 as a result of them moving off Destiny 2. Reskins on top of reskins, one strike per expansion, re-releases of their 'vaulted content'. Like I understand making a game is expensive, but its clear that their funding has nothing to do with the quality of content being released in Destiny 2.
Datto tbh I love the reaction content, I love hearing your thoughts and your hilarious, I enjoy all your content not just destiny, keep it up !
17:21 - 20:08
Honestly, this is just such a wet-sock take for me. I understand that it's silly to imply that these practices don't work or are exclusive to bungie is silly, and it's perfectly fair to point out that the reason we're even having this conversation is because *clearly* their pricing works for enough people. But acknowledging that "yes, this is the issue, so what" misses the forest for the trees, I feel. Not EVERY company uses the same level of aggressive MTX pricing, some are much better than Bungie, and some are much worse. The point is not to try and compare to see who's doing it worst or best, the point is to try and hold Bungie accountable for deliberately choosing to do this, and if your only response to that is "lmao the world is just like that now, sucks to suck, I guess enough people don't agree with you", all that does is work against any potential dialogue with Bungie.
Why would you root for Bungie to be able to get away with this and not listen? Why would you be so damned apathetic?
Many of you voted for this by putting up with this. You fed the beast and now 7 years later it's full grown and wanting to consume more of your wallets. 😂
Datto missed the entire point of the dungeon conversation.
He absolutely did
what i feel is that duneons should be apart of the expansion with now no real new strikes or pvp maps because we get old battle grounds from past seasons in the new vanguard playlist, also the incredibly mature of you part is very funny and glad to know there is no dumb pointless beef when everyone really should be mad/disapointed etc at bungie (the company, not the devs)
Dungeons take time and money, even datto says this
@@TheAcidicMolotov forsaken had more and better content for 60 bucks less then lightfall and they still made a sht ton of profits
@@darthvader9173 better is subjective, and how was forsaken $60 bucks less? Lightfall was $50, bungie gave you $10?
@@darthvader9173keep bringing up the content that had 2 codeveloping studios and was made on blizz's money, it will surely do wonders to your argument
@@kappegaf that was the case we would at least get half of what we got in TTK and Forsaken. Instead we got 1 crucible map in the last 4 years when we use to get 6-11 per year expansion. We get 0 meaningful updates to gambit. We get 2 strikes per year with the rest being rehashed seasonal content. We use to get 4-6 brand new strikes. Destiny 2 still has no strike specific loot.
The quantity of content has gotten tremendously low. And the game has been on a decline since shadow keep.
As far as Warframe is concerned you can get everything free but you have to grind a lot and wait just as long.
No you can't. Community made and prime cosmetics cost real money.
@@notthefox Well,... The word P2W Barely work in Warframe
“Online multiplayer games used to ask if I cared to spend a few bucks while I played. Now they ask me if I care to play a few games while I spend money. In the end a good game with bad monetization is a bad game.”
People really thought the bit of Cross hovering over all the things Datto prophesized was an attack on Datto??? I just took it as Cross almost paying respect to Datto (may not be the right phrase) for his Prophecy of the worst timeline we have found ourselves in. Like "Datto warned us, and it has Come to Pass." Either way though, glad Datto and Cross cleared it up with little to no Malfeasance (Hopefully not too big of a reach with The Last Word there.).
I’m in shock people are that stupid
That’s how bungie shills think, a attack on the game is a attack on them because their life is basically destiny, they spend more time and money on the game then any girlfriend or loved one, they are just in denial mode and can’t accept the state of the game and all that time and money leading up to something like lightfall
I feel like the annual pass as an impact on this. All the annual pass purchases usually bump up their $$$ numbers for that quarter. That means less individual season purchases. This creates a graph that shows a decrease in profits when you look at and compare quarter earnings. So the executives push for more monetization and such to make those numbers look higher.
That's a very interesting take and I feel like it's very likely that this is the case
The inclusion of dungeons on the annual pass also probably leads to the overall mid seasons we've gotten
Since people pay upfront for the dungeons to not have to pay extra in piece meal, bungo is safe to drop some bad seasons since they are already paid for
Literally every other popular mmo has u pay for expansions as well as dungeons separately and even possibly a subscription. A lot of gamers should go back to playing single player games if they want a buy once experience. A lot of games now at days are semi mmo and take a lot of money to upkeep, end of story.
@@theguardianwolf7206servers ARENT that expensive, stop your bs haha
@@DavidUtau umm who said it’s just servers dumbass. Let me think here the employees, the building costs, production costs, marketing costs, equipment costs, paying back investors with interest… bungie isn’t just slapping weekly updates out for free, and yes servers can cost a lot. Why do u think tech companies are so massive? They own the servers. The cheap servers u think of are small ass personal servers. Servers that have to functionally run hundreds of thousands of people are different story my guy
28:48 Anyone who took that this way is smokin all the drugs. I took it as you basically predicting the future and the scary reality of just how extremely close we are to that in D2.
Seriously, this take is 100% internet trolls. For the rest of us real people, it was clear that he was praising Datto's foresight.
Things can be taken a way and be just as valid until the way it was supposed to be taken comes out
While it is hard to argue about commercial entity being there for earning money, there are multiple questions about the ethics and delivery scope/ $:
- Thing is that over past 3 years, server issues have never been worse;
- fixing bugs - have never been worse (e.g. eververse store, that supposedly is a money driver is still dropping frames);
- new content output - week 20 June, - was about 30 mins which is low even compared to previous "bad weeks".
Clearly, they are monetizing the way they found out to be the best one. Should it be taken as an acceptable path? Doubt that.
Most of pay-to-win titles are at least pushing content forward, while we are still discovering what should have been discovered either at launch of Lightfall or even in WQ. Thus, being drop-fed the content that was intended to be there earlier with a mix-in of repurposed/ devaulted activities would hardly be acceptable even in marketing (unless it is telemarketing).
why would you paraphrase someones definition? wouldnt you want to be exact? I dont get this "i refuse to use clips from the video! NAWRH!"
My biggest question is how on earth do they think the event card is valued the same as an entire season pass? The season pass gives you 2/3x the amount of items for the same price, it's 200 more now, but my point still stands.
My favorite segment is "2 Adults Talk to Each Other Respectfully." That got a good laugh out of me lol
Datto sounds like morty when hes going off on aztecross 28:55 enjoyed the edits, thanks datto!
I honestly hadn't even considered the fact that Prophecy was free when every other Dungeon was included with an Expansion before that and I'll admit to having a hairpin reaction because of that. I would however make the argument that they still shouldn't be their own purchases and should instead either STILL be included in the price for the yearly Expansion OR included in the price of the Season Pass for the Season in which they drop(Although I understand why they don't do this second option as it would likely cause confusion amongst laymen and new customers that don't understand why the price jumps every other season) much like how they're included in the price of what I personally buy, the Yearly Annual Pass which includes everything for the next year at one flat rate($100 in the US as of my last purchase back in December 2022). Great takes from both Cross and Datto. I personally land somewhere around the middle leaning slightly more toward Datto's side on this one.
The market dictates the value of items, you are 100% correct.
If people think that items are overpriced (like I do), then I'm not the audience.
The audience has proven time and time again, that regardless of what they say, or how much they whine, enough of them go ahead and buy this stuff anyway, which justifies the price they're setting.
Two main take aways if you don’t care for Bungie’s business practices: Bungie isn’t listening to your feedback on socials & Bnet. They are only paying attention to their profits. Stop buying silver!! Vote with your wallet. Have some self control over your addiction.
New player in lightfall, easy to see all these systems kinda wrecking the game. Been tempted by a few sick weapon skins but have resisted
This. That's all that matters.
I stopped playing seasons ago, would be nice to comeback but too much monetization and fomo for me
@@soulward6334 good job. I’ve been playing for 8.5 (uninstalled with LF). Even I’ve feel victim to the mentality “Oh well. It isn’t going away, so why not buy some silver and get some cool cosmetics.” Everytime I rethink about it I feel like a chump.
Datto's monologue said a word. He actually said it 2 years ago. Bungie Will keep making Microtransactions as long as people continue to buy them.
18:34 About time you caught up. Darkside Royalty has been saying this for years.
Your point about Dungeons huuuuuugely missed the mark, no one says dungeons should be free, but why the hell aren't they tied to the paid season ? And why is it so fkn expensive ? And why is the marketing so misleading ?
Those were Aztec's points.
One thing that neither you nor Cross mention is how some eververse ornaments actually change the functionality of some weapons for the better. I'm not sure it is pay to win, but I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned.
hawkmoon ornament legit way better scope n feel of the gun
Some things will lead them to lose their benefits and free trips so wordplay is necessary for the cc suckups
@@justsomeguy2142 cc?
@@chrisg8p content creator, my bad for assuming folks will automatically know
@@justsomeguy2142 as soon as i sent that i figured it out on my own lol but thanks for quick response
you know its serious when datto starts making videos about it
that part about the moneyspenders overriding the concerned players really jives with me. i don't spend money on microtransactions unless it's significant or for something i've already earned (like a battle pass), but my brother in law buys everything in destiny. literally everything he wants with little more than a second thought that only doubles down on the first and a blank, vacant look on his face.
also, just as some context to Warframe's earliest beginnings, even though it's not super relevant-
DE tried pitching Warframe to a lot of publishers, but nobody wanted any part in it. DE eventually said "fuck it, we ball" and published it themselves, but they were super tight on funding at the beginning, and monetized an exorbitantly expensive "Founder's Pack" where they got access to up to 3 exclusive items (Lato, Skana and Excalibur prime, which to this day are still exclusive) across three different tiers, and on top of that, players had a daily self-revive limit, where once they blew through their daily allowance of self-revives, they'd have to pay real money to continue. that's where i stopped playing until 2018 or so, but those features were removed at a later point anyway.
It doesn’t seem as bad now, I just started playing, I have 4 revives per mission now and it resets each new mission
I love dungeons, but my issue with dungeons is that I shouldn’t have to buy a season, as well as the new dungeon. The dungeon should come along WITH the expansion. I know that it’s expensive to release a dungeon. But, for new players, they are tricked into thinking that a new dungeon is coming when they buy the pass, just to have to go buy another item because they don’t clearly state that you have to buy the dungeon pass on top of the season. On those new seasons. They should just bump the price up a bit instead of making you go through 2 separate transactions
They now do 2 dungeons, not one
I think dungeons could be included in the seasons. But it would mean each season goes up in price too.