Want to chime in on the hard truth moment about dungeons. I think the major problem isn't that dungeons aren't free, but that you can buy the expansion (which is what they used to be tied to) and the season in whish they come out, and you STILL need to buy a 3rd item in order to get them.
Exactly!! If Bungie sticked with an annual pass sorta thing where seasons and dungeons were bundled it would have been better in my opinion... Bungie monetization schemes should be investigated. Epic learned their lesson with their practices on Fornite and I'm 100% Bungie sure would be in the hot seat as well.
He wasn’t. Datto seems to think cross can and does control what a millionth of his player base says, and chose to use this point to negate people’s opinions about how he’s sat around on his arse all these years while this previously mentioned slippery slope has gotten greasier and scummier, and increasingly hard to stay on top of.
@@Alex-ug9wxDatto dosent think that either, but since Datto's video has been used and people pinged him on his streams and Twitter he made a video about it. Besides, datto made his piece two years ago, once when armor ornaments came out and the Foreververse video he made after that. Hell half the stuff said in this video was what he said IN that video
@@Amirifiz I’m sorry but I refuse to believe his claims here. He claimed that sooooo many people took cross’s video as a vehicle for blaming him, that he had to make a video to clear the air. I haven’t seen a single person claiming it was datto’s fault. That being said, he absolutely should have said something more recently, especially on recent changes, and he really needs to stop being as shilly as he sometimes comes across. I think he’s a good content creator but it really seems like bungie and by extension destiny has bought his soul, and so he’s completely unable to process the concept of criticism. Just my opinion though!
@@Alex-ug9wxyou are 100% spot on. He is, and always has been, Bubgies golden boy. He will NEVER critique them to any serious degree because he is 100% bought.
Yeah, it did sound more like: "Datto called this out ages ago", that's why his video was part of Cross's video. He just basically said: "Datto said way back, that this can go very wrong one day. See, it did" and that's all there is to it :D
I never assumed dungeons would be free with prophecy BUT I think it’s bullshit we went from them being included in expansions to a separate pass after you already bought the big dlc and seasons
Yeeeeeaaaaah… I’m sure there’s people out there with that opinion but I’ve personally never seen or heard anyone say “Prophecy was free so every other dungeon should be free stand alone.”
They separated them because if I purchased the DLC and set my brothers console as my primary console he wouldn’t have to pay for it This is a workaround they’re using to avoid that
@@Mashamazzino it should be part of the expansion, like any other MMO, the fact you need to even pay for seasons is a joke, especially considering most of the content is just reusing old assets, and there is already heavy monetisation
Even with a knockout system there’s probably like 100 ghost peojections, spawn animations, blue emotes that enter the pool every season anyways. Cross made that point in the video. The Engram pool is getting more diluted with “trash” over time anyways
The Upended. A title suitable for that which turns worlds upside down. When I was still uninitiated, I would stand guard at my post. I would look to the sky and see the two suns of my Lubrae: one eternally shaded in the dark, the other always a brilliant blue. And in them, I had seen the folly of our kind. A fear of something we believed bigger than us… and a reliance on that which kept us. That blue sun that we harnessed our power from… a simple reversal of that power cracked the blue in half. Shut it off. And Lubrae… died. I did not know it at the time, but it was necessary. And now that Savathûn has trapped me within these walls, it will be necessary again. My Witness… whether I survive Savathûn's betrayal or not, the Upended will ensure we salvage our perfect goal. The final abyss… awaits us all. When I stood on that precipice, watching the only world I knew collapse under its own weight… I was prepared for the splendor of abyssal eternity. But you brought me forth, my Witness. Freed me from the world that imprisoned me. Made me see the ultimate truth, one I could never see alone… That on my planet Lubrae, who I was, where I was, what I believed mattered - all amounted to absolute insignificance. I keep this mural not as some worthless sentimental reminder of what I lost, but of the opposite - of what I gained. Power. Truth of the inconsequence of most. Control over the universal strings of fate. For all this, I am eternally grateful, my Witness. It was your infinite wisdom, my Witness, that led me into the planet's great sea… and face to face with that which was believed to be unbeatable. You instilled in me a true understanding of wanton domination. Not for pleasure, but as a means to achieve our absolute finality. When I reached the creature known to some as the Leviathan, it laid its thoughts bare. "Turn from the deep, fearmonger," it relayed. "I know what you seek. Press on, and you will drown in it." "I do not drown," I spoke with a defiant tongue. In a mere infinitesimal measure of time, I held a rib of this beast in one hand and pushed aside its maimed vessel with the other. "I rise." Puppets, all of them. Every last Krill. Every last Hive. I once believed in a higher calling as they do. But you know that. You rescued me from that. Eternal appreciation doesn't even scratch the surface of what I owe you for the gifts you gave me. I know you hoped the Krill would see it too. We tried. We really did. But we had to let them struggle… All because of a belief that purpose had finally found them. Given them strength to conquer an oppressive homeworld. How else were they to grow? Their loss, however, is for them to grieve, not us. We will continue forward. Greater purpose awaits, my Witness. "Conqueror," many called me. Again and again, I heard this word. Lobbed my direction not with admiration, but with malice. "Not a conqueror," I would respond with glee. "What, then?" they would ask. I do not tell them, my Witness. As you so graciously taught me, I show them. Just as I did in the unholy den of those starving "worm gods." I'll not forget the stench of their rotting flesh… or the way they cowered as I drew near. But they soon learned I was not to be feared. In the end, I left them only a promise of sustenance, and in return, they became chattel for our greater purpose: absolute finality. And as I walked away, their fountainhead in tow, I could hear them whisper with respect: "Subjugator."
10:32 Your point is wrong. The community does not expect dungeons to be FREE. We expect dungeons to be included in the OVERPRICED DLC, the way things used to be. To add to this, we can argue that Prophecy wasn’t even free to begin with. Beyond Light has no dungeon, Prophecy was just released a couple months before the expansion, technically including it with BL.
Careful. He was creating a strawman to disregard the fair arguments made by those who don’t want to pay hundreds per year to access the same (in fact, worse) content year after year.
prophecy was realesed in season of arrivals and this season was included with shadowkeep wich was year 3 of destiny 2. beyond light started year 4 of destiny 2. This mean that shadowkeep got 2 dungeon in the yearly offering one with the extension and the other free during a season. Season of arrivals has been removed from de the game but prophecy is still free to this day wihch prove is point in the video. i agree that dungeon should be tied to season/extension but prophecy has a dungeon, his the same as the other except is free.
Something to note is that all those dungeons which came in the expansion, prophecy included, did not have their own unique weapons, and most didn't have their own unique armor either, aside from the exotic weapon in each of them. It was only with grasp of avarice, when we started paying for dungeons, that a full unique set of loot was made the standard. If we make an assumption about cause and effect here (and I will admit, it is an assumption, but that's the best we've got), then realistically, we can look at that as evidence that giving out more money for these dungeons not only allows bungie to make more of them, but also allows bungie to fill them with new loot that is desirable. Datto even mentions this within the video. The more new loot that comes in a dungeon, the higher the cost of production, and I don't know about you but I'm not exactly running shattered throne or pit of heresy anymore. Why would I? Everything good I could get from them can be farmed as world drops. If paying for dungeons keeps us getting unique loot, I'm gonna keep paying for dungeons.
"If I had a nickel for every Destiny RUclipsr that posted a reaction video today I would have two nickels, which isn't a lot but weird that it happened twice."
I agree with your point on Prophecy, but the argument of most people isn't that dungeons should be free, it's that they should be included in the paid content of the season they release in
I get some of the confusion with marketing but come on, Prophecy has been the only dungeon to kinda part of a season. Everything else has either been a standalone purchase (Grasp, Duality, Spire, Ghosts) or was part of an expansion (Shattered and Pit). We've literally never had a dungeon included with a season. I think it would be nice and I'd definitely like them to be included but why do you guys think that's going to happen? What has Bungie done to indicate that Dungeons would be included with the season purchase? I don't get it tbh
Exactly. Either seasons quality shouldnt include dungeons because they're a completely seperate purchase and entity, or dungeons should be counted under the seasonal grind and what to do in the season and be purchasable in the season.
@@underscore_5450 Then make it part of the Expansion price. They already raised the price for no reason multiple times and it now includes less content than what freaking Shadowkeep had.
@@underscore_5450oh idk maybe two DLCs called Shadowkeep(pit of heresy) and Forsaken(shattered throne), one of which that has had most of it's content completely removed but is still sold as a 30 bucks legacy pack Oh btw, how are you liking you're new enemy veriety of one and the many new strikes ?
Or let us buy deepsight harmonizers with nightfall ciphers. If I already have the roll I want on my adept nightfall weapon, it would be cool if I could then use my 10 ciphers to pick up a deepsight harmonizer. It would have to be timegated like Rahool's materials exchange to 1/week so that people aren't out here unlocking raid patterns day 1, but it would at least give people another reason to engage with nightfalls past the loot and title.
I think this would be a perfect idea. let us hold more than one at a time. But them being a reward for high end content would be incredible. I used to be that player with a ton of time in game, but never touched master/GM nightfalls or raids. The rewards for GMs and the availability of crafting raid weapons is what got me into endgame content over the last year. They just need to add proper rewards to certain activities and the gametime of player will go up.
Something that a lot of people are completely overlooking is when Bungie stated that the deepsight harmonizers being in the season pass is the initial rollout of them, and that they'll see how things go with them, and then will see where else they can put them to offer more of them to the player. A lot of people seem to have forgotten that, though I will admit that we don't know when that may happen
@nailinthefashion Most of his audience are low IQ children who can't grapple with reality yet. I mean, in the entire video he raged about "pay to win" and then failed to define it correctly or identify any P2W examples in D2. Not exactly a compelling video.
How did people mistaken cross using Datto's voice-over, while showing the items in the season pass, as some sort of stab. It was clear as day the intention behind that clip @ around 28:20 was to show that Datto's take of bungie implementing things has aged like fine wine. Literally at the start of his video Cross explains that.
For the same exact reason Datto got so triggered by it as he explains in the above video. You're asking why as if datto himself didn't see it in the exact same way. Cross is simply saving face when Datto reached out. Cross' video speaks for itself. Shit's gonna hit 1 million views sooner than later.
Someone’s gotta pay for all the upkeep. And when there’s not enough money to upkeep the game, it turns to shit. Bungie doesn’t want to be stuck exclusively making destiny, it makes sense, but with all the complaints of extra purchases the in thing to be negative about, a lot of multiplayer games are getting put in the ground cause they can’t pay to upkeep the shit.
@@rjmacready6693 Nah I’m just saying people take anything out of context and turn it into something completely opposite of what it was intended to show. I’m not asking why did Dayton take it like that and have the conversation with Cross, i’m just confused on how the people who kept dm spamming and @ing him took that one piece of cross video out of context. Datto literally states that he didn’t take it that way and ONLY after took it that way after so many people kept saying the same thing and got worried about the intention of that said clip.
@@ayMochii highlighting your own comment....fart in the wind bud and always comes off defensive. Which is fine thats your prerogative. Not my way of articulating my stance on YT but that's okay. Datto literally reached out to Cross because "it bothered him". Only after Cross telling him no no it's all chocolate and hearts did Datto feel like it was simply a misunderstanding of Cross' reasoning for including Datto's take on micros not once but multiple times in his viral video. And didn't know Datto's real name was Dayton but now your initial take makes more sense than it did before I knew you know Datto's real name. Hope you enjoy your day homie.
@@rjmacready6693 ?? The Dayton thing was just autocorrect and I don’t highlight comments cause idek know how to. I barely ever comment but I thought this was something I had to say. Idk what’s your deal but I wasn’t trying to argue when I responded back. I was trying to clarify my meaning cause you clearly didn’t understand what I was saying
I think my biggest want for Datto to respond was about the clip 'you'll have my rage.'. What I've seen from Datto these past few years is apathy and even a feeling that he thinks the community is a bit entitled. There is no rage from him. There isn't even a 'slightly miffed', just a shrug and acceptance that Bungie gonna Bungie and I get a feeling of a bit of "don't bite the hand that feeds you". I get it. Priorities shift as time goes on. What used to be important can become insignificant, and what was minor can become important as someone moves through life. That was a clip of him excusing stepping on that slippery slope, saying that he would be there to be another voice speaking out about it. And that's not the case. He's rarely speaking out about it, and that's only after being hounded to speak out about it. I get the feeling from the few times that he has spoken about these things, it's a "I've said my piece, it's on the internet for those who want that information. Moving on." That's not adding your voice, that's adding a footnote.
@@MichaelBrown-kk8wo I'm not expecting it. He's made it clear that he thinks this point of contention was lost _long_ ago, and this isn't something that customers can fight. Too many people will just not care and continue to throw money at companies because it's worth it for them, and it's not our place to tell people what to do with their money. He's mostly right. It _isn't_ our place to tell people how to spend their money, nor is a relatively small amount of people who are aware of what is happening going to move anything. What needs to happen is education, and that requires a concerted effort of people with large platforms constantly talking about the issues and potential actions to fix the issues. Some random commenting on a RUclips comment isn't going to do that, especially with a comment that isn't a snippet and made a while after the RUclips video went up. What is though is someone with a large audience that can speak from a place of authority, not letting it go....
Dungeons shouldn't be free, but they should be included with the expansion. Them being completely separate from the campaigns or the seasons is egregious in monetization and is one of the main factors keeping people out of the game for me (anecdotal for sure, but I'm talking about 10 separate people)
If it shouldn't be free then you are saying they should raise the price of dlc? That now forces everyone to pay more instead of who wants to play dungeons.
Hard disagree on the expectation being that dungeons should be free. The expectation is that dungeons are included as part of content you paid for, and not an additional paid surcharge. You can still buy it that way if you buy the deluxe/annual pass version of the expansion.
then there's me who's like, the only person who remembers Bungie justifying the Eververse by saying "microtransactions will help bankroll side content like Dungeons (and etc) so they can be free"
sunk cost fallacy coping. bungie is gonna keep milking yall d2 players for all you’re worth and im gonna enjoy marathon when that gets the majority of their attention after release . especially since destiny pvp got abandoned forever ago.
@@ewaysrevenge Really, you're gonna give Bungie your money after this? Regardless if its "has their attention," whatever that means. Technically D2 has their attention, in how they can implement more ways of implementing FOMO. Nothing says they arent going to do that to Marathon as well.
@@iamoctonateto be frank I quite literally could not care less about what happens to destiny 2 now the micro transactions killed my love for the game and if marathon does well then ima have to give it a shot .
I come across your videos several years back and you were very lively, passion driven and enthusiastic for game(s). comparing to you now though. you have the facial expression and tone of voice of doing a job you've grown sick/tired of and just want to leave but you can't since the paycheck is good enough to keep a roof over you're head, food on the table and to pay bills. here's hoping you find a job/game that does make you genuinely happy instead of making you feel and look dead inside.
I'm just glad someone points out how wallet voting generally doesn't work online and game companies account for this ratio. For every 10 people you rally against buying things, there's some guy in Nebraska none the wiser that's absolutely hyped to buy 10 people's worth of cosmetics because he feels its worth it.
The issue is how insanely mainstream video games have become. Remember when Magic the Gathering was going to release Restricted Masters sets, reprinting restricted cards at 1,000$ a box? Yeah the MtG community is small enough, their collective stink caused WotC to cancel the set. For gaming? Hardcore dedicated players now are such a small concentric circle within the large community, our problems don’t matter. Because some idiot who doesn’t know better WILL spend money.
the only actual way to combat this stuff is what a large portion of gamers refuse to accept & actively fight against which is politics. there is a reason predatory monetization is less effective in EU than other regions. because the EU has actively taken steps to mitigate it. China has done the same in the past couple years. meanwhile in countries like the US, consumers are actively throwing away their rights and mindlessly defending corporate greet & predatory monetization because fanboyism and rampant video game addiction is being normalized.
If this community had some semblance of a backbone and stopped buying silver, we wouldn't be having these conversations. These are insanely transparent marketing and monetization practices that millions of rubes fall for over and over again.
Are they rubes? Or enjoying the game differently while you fume at them? I understand the frustration but at some point we have to just accept the world is dictate by people which in turn dictate the markets
Lol, the last 10 years of mobile gaming gonna put a hurt on your plan. Gaming is getting more and more accepted in our culture. That means more normies which gaming isn't a hobby to. Indy is our only hope.
@@TheAcidicMolotov I think the whole drama behind all of this is that, no, we don't have to accept any of this. There is more content and cosmetics locked behind eververse paywalls than ever before. We used to enjoy a less monetized version of this game just a few short years ago. Maybe a better term would be "whales" instead of rubes (i would argue they're the same thing) A small of percentage of players who buy literally everything.
We should really stop calling them “micro transactions” as there really isn’t anything micro about them anymore. It’s getting to a point of choosing between a full meal or a skin lol
@@A_Cool_Tunafish I’m not saying I’m getting to a point of choosing between food or skin. im saying in general the prices of a skin in games are hitting a ridiculous point. I personally haven’t bought anything from a micro transaction in years.
@@jak_2don’t worry dude, people love making strawman arguments to defend gargantuan corporations like bungie who are making record profits and delivering less for what we pay for. There will always be bootlickers salivating at the thought of letting their tongues touch a company’s shoe.
@A_Cool_Tunafish Ah, the classic Bungie ass-kisser. Thing is, you let them get away with $20, then they up it to 25, then 30 because nobody cares enough to put their foot down. But hey, if you really hate the game that much, I just hope Bungie's paying you well to spread this shit.
On the topic of Destiny 2 being more of a free trial than a free to play, I think Aztecross mention those 2 games because despite having MTX, all of the actual content is available with only non-gameplay related content being locked behind a pay wall (skins, etc.) In comparison to D2, with paywalled story and other massive content, making it more of a free trial or even a demo rather than an actual free 2 play game. I don't think it deserves to merely be brushed aside as mere semantics.
Yeah. It's pretty obvious that was the reason for the comparison. The fact Datto dismisses Aztec's point as semantics is in my opinion indicative of his attitude in general. It's sad to say but I think Datto's opinion on these topics is null and void. People keep asking his opinion, so that's not his fault, but he's a content creator who earns his income covering one game. His perspective of monetisation and the content being offered is warped for a multitude of reasons, to name a few - has far more money than the average player, plays the game for work and had been doing so for a very long time now. While Aztec is in a similar position, from my perspective he is usually far more objective and engaged with the average player experience. I'm not trying to insult Datto. I just think, whether he realises it or not, his opinions these days feel like someone who is talking about their day job
@@NonConformistNinjasecause it is his day job. It pays the bills. Therefore, I don't expect him to be subjective about anything related to destiny... Clearly. Whenever people call him out on his bullshit he acts like an elitist and like he knows better than everybody. It's actually funny at times
@@NonConformistNinjas It's actually semantics. In today's age of extremist, it's either full black or full white. People are so obsessed with 3 letters acronym that they argue uselessly with no one being fully right or fully wrong coz they don't go enough into details. Just add a couple letters or numbers. FTT20% or FTT40% or FTP60% or FTP100%.
@@rotuivongue3896 no its actually not semantics. Being able to play the entire game for free and only monetizing the cosmetics is far different than playing 1/5th of the game and having a paywall for the rest. Thats not semantics thats you getting cut off for things that are relevant to the experience.
When you realize exotic emotes used to be the same price as a whole season. Now there just a tad more expensive. Eververse is just overpriced. No way an emote needs to cost that much or a ship/sparrow
Might be able to get away with like mocap or some shit as an excuse for emotes. Some chucklehead has to do all those stupid poses. Granted, I don't think they're worth the price point either, but it's good to be able to think like a corporation.
heres the thing tho, Bungie didnt set the prices of emotes, Epic did with fortnite, Bungie, like MANY other studios, just copy and pasted fortintes pricing model, down the the rarity of items, imo its unfair to say Bungie is in the wrong, not because they aren't, but because it comes off as saying Bungie is the ONLY one in the wrong, its why I NEVER complain about Destiny's microtransactions, or Fortnites, or CODs, I complain about GAMINGS microtransactions, because this isn't an issue about [insert company] is greedy its an issue that the gaming industry is greedy
I have no problem with cosmetics costing money. I do however have a problem with a “free” to play game having little to nothing to do for FTP players. Seasons cost money. Dungeons cost money, of course dlc costs money. You can’t play certain things without having the dlc either so it’s less like a free game and more like a free trial
Elder Scrolls Online does the bundles in the best way. Every year when a new expansion drops there's always a bundle that just includes ALL the previous expansions + the most current one and it tends to only be slightly pricier than the current expansion price. I have not a single clue as to why Bungie doesn't do the same thing, it's like they're intentionally trying to scare off new players.
@@emogambino295 Gonna be honest, I genuinely don't believe you know what you're talking about. ESO has never "fallen". It got some flack towards the start because for some reason people thought it'd be Skyrim online when in reality it was an Elder Scrolls themed MMO but it's not like it's existence was ever threatened. It's always had a thriving player base. Also Bethesda did not develop ESO, Zenimax Online Studios did.
1:56 Not to be that guy, but to be that guy, Warframe has those conversations. The amount of good will in terms of honesty of the company when it comes to microtransactions is almost unbelievable but they manage it. There is a way to make good money on your game and still treat your playerbase as your equal.
It's extra funny (and sad) cause all the games they do collabs with in order to overcharge for these armor sets either have their Destiny collab content at significantly cheaper prices (Fortnite, AC Valhalla), or simply don't have Destiny content cause they're great single-player games without microtransactions (God of War, Ghost of Tsushima, Horizon). Destiny players seem doomed to get the shortest end of the stick no matter who Bungie chooses to collaborate with, which should really tell us how bad the MTX system in this game is compared to the industry standard.
Not only that but the price has been increasing season to season regarding crossover armor. We had the previous set sold for 2200, then they went oopsie and put an "on sale" icon next to it, not even lowering the price... and now the next set costs even more.
It sucks but really it’s fairly standard. Look at Diablo 4, wildly popular game and a new cosmetic set is $20 as well, and that’s in a top down dungeon crawler game. Look at ESO, it’s a whopping $60 for a style unlock on that game. Cosmetics are getting more and more expensive because people keep buying them. Destiny is really no particular case in this regard unfortunately.
I definitely get your apathy. For me it's less apathy and more resignation. I hate all this monetisation, and I remember the good old days where you bought a game and had a game, when horse armour was a meme. The consumer has lost so much ground to the companies and I don't know what is needed to reign all this in
He is right. It is an already lost battle. Oblivion Horse Armor was a meme, but people bought it. Pricing and monetization is always "what will the consumer pay for, and how much?" All video games are a product to be sold, the current situation is because there is a market for what they are selling. There is nothing we can do about it - we did vote with our wallets and we were outvoted by those who bought the Horse Armor.
It is and has always been whale's fault. It doesn't matter how many people don't spend a cent so long as someone with more dollars than sense comes around and decides to buy the entire eververse in a day You may think that all this monetization is stupid, but it works because there are equally stupid people Remember that guy who spend 100k on Diablo Immortal? Doesn't matter what literally anyone else did, that one player made it all worth it for Bliz
I think the issue with the Dungeon keys is that the dungeons they apply to are also listed as content in the season bundle, in order to make it look more substantial, When you need to buy the key separately. There is a reason toy commercials have to have a disclaimer about "batteries sold separately", otherwise you have been sold a product that doesn't work as advertised. Technically speaking, You said that people spending the money are in the driver's seat, but there is one group who can have greater effect on monetization. The Legal department. Lootboxes have seen a sudden drop in use due to legislation being threatened, the same will happen if a suit is pressed and wins.
Datto explaining what he means when he says stuff at the beginning, as if people aren't going to take it out of context regardless, will never not crack me up
The cool thing is that because he explains it we can write off those people when they do that. They dont care about actually informing themselves or their opinions, and so those opinions mean very little.
@@cj6498 Good Twain quote. He also said "For the history of our race, and each individual's experience, are sown thick with evidence that a truth is not hard to kill and that a lie told well is immortal."
This is code for "I'm shilling for bungie. While I might disagree with what they do I can't actually say that in case they invite me back to head office" Datto has sold out. Not since that interview with Luke has he called out bungie. His take here is awful and just a cop out. Saying what he says is just his way of defending that awful take.
I think my only issue here is how easily Datto dismissed the whole "buying content is P2W" when subclasses are locked behind said-content. If they weren't locked away then I'd agree, but Stasis when it came out, or Strand now are somewhat essential to PvP.
I see what you're saying. But those are from expansions anyway. Which the vast majority of active players are buying anyway. The game isn't free to play, with the option to buy new subclasses. Its a paid game with a somewhat substantial trial version.
@@OhYeah_ it’s true though isn’t it? Bungie can’t slap “FTP” on their brand and then put witherhoard or ace of spades behind paywalls. One of which is a vaulted DLC, and is still £20. Both of these weapons are king in PVE and PVP respectfully and are absolutely essential. Especially wither.
@@Alex-ug9wx yes I agree that the game is only free to try. But how can you not expect there to be new weapons and armour with paid expansions. And for those weapons and armour to be better than your previous gear. That’s sort of how loot based games work.
@@OhYeah_ typically though, it helps you get it faster. This is why I liked the idea of quicksilver being available for a few months to the deluxe edition buyers, and then available to standard edition buyers when the next season dropped. The same should be for the exotic kiosk. Something like “buy the expansion and unlock these weapons for FREE (don’t have to buy them for in game resources) and then those who DON’T buy the expansions can buy them with the shards, cores, prisms, ascendant shards, etc. Something that still makes it accessible to players through a grindy process, so it is still a good idea to buy the expansion, but it isn’t REQUIRED. Because as it stands now, THAT is P2W. You get subclasses, weapons that have been meta for years, etc, etc. For example, can you imagine if graviton lance was in the kiosk in an expansion section? How would that NOT be pay to win? It’s dominating the PVP meta at the moment, and will for ages. It’s the same with immortal. In case you don’t play PVP, it’s still, far and away, the BEST gun in the game. You have to PAY to access trials, which you then get the immortal from. That’s absurd. It’s been out for nearly half a YEAR and is still the most oppressive gun in the game.
How best to describe Destiny 2. "You should've been there." The game. A friend of mine is the type that will religiously defend Destiny 2 till the deathbed (primarily due to the time sunk situation). The game is both the most absolutely beautiful and amazing game due to its content, but on the same note also actively removes its own content.
There is a middle ground between free dungeons and the dungeon key. The dungeons could be included with the the purchase of the season. Much like Pit and Throne were included with expansions, Ghosts of the Deep should come with Season of the deep or Lightfall
@@icekyuu Bungie's already making record profits. And we're getting lesser and lazier content season by season. Not to mention NO real content for Crucible or Gambit for a LONG time. We haven't really seen evidence of this claim that more profit = more content for Destiny. At this point it should be clear to you that more profit just means more resources devoted to Marathon.
As a new player just before Lightfall released, buying all the things that was needed was a nightmare imo I literally had to look up articles on what I needed. I got super into the game with about 300 hours, and I hadn't done a dungeon. After buying the pass, previous expansions, the new one and a few bits I wanted, I was instantly turned off once I saw I needed to spend more money just to access a dungeon. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be the only person that this happened too either!
@@TheAcidicMolotov really? We don't know they're making record profits, when a simple Google search for "Bungie revenue YoY" should tell you that? You know this information is public right? And my other statements aren't assumptions either, they're inferences based on what we've experienced, unless you refuse to acknowledge that Crucible and Gambit have barely gotten any content over the last few years, or we've started getting more reskins than ever before, or that Bungie decided to not honor their promise of vendor armor refreshes every year. While pumping out more Eververse stuff than ever before. What, then, are the profits from increased season prices, multiple new forms of monetisation, and overpriced collab ornaments getting us in Destiny? Please, help me understand how huge amounts of profits have translated into more content for Destiny.
7:10 I still think that bungie should make anything older than 2 years free to everyone(currently beyond light and before) I'm pretty sure that most of their revenue comes from the silver and newer dlcs(which are more expensive), and by making this they would retain more players as any free player is more likely to spend on the game(via DLCs and Silver) if they are playing and in the current format a lot of free players just quit the game because of how little they have to do and how much things they need to buy
Hopefully, some of this gets handled in the post-final shape era, when the new player experience gets revamped. But yeah, with the Forsaken pack, you’re paying $20 basically just to get access to the exotics, which feels really shitty
@@horrorfan117 the rebutal for that is paying $5 for what you spent $60 is basically free in this market. Also just tell them what content do they actually unlock? They dont even get anything meaningful, basically minimal to no difference from not owning it.
Or just bundles all the previous 2 years old DLC as a complete bundles in a discount rather than selling it separately. Is just confusing for new players.
I'm going through these as I disagreed with them in the video 1. Apathy, and to a degree the willingness to accept the monetization. You're the largest Destiny content creator, combine that with the other creators who all agree with the insane levels of monetization from either manipulation through lack of transparency, gambling back when they were selling bright engrams, to the price increase and now individually selling dungeons. There is actually something you all can do to varying costs at your own livelihoods. You have combined communities of well over a million people, advocate for changes. It's clear vote with your wallet doesn't work when there's a large enough minority of spenders who outweigh those decisions. Change will probably have to be done at a legislative level. There's tons of gaming creators and advocates you all can combine with to make change from transparency in marketing (like removing premium currencies/forcing all items to have dollar prices) or more extreme measures like making manipulative tactics like FOMO illegal with digital goods (essentially paid goods that are infinite). The choices y'all could make that is of course the most damaging to yourselves, and I accept y'all can't do is gather as many people in the community as you can and quit playing and talking about Destiny for a long period of time (I'm talking a month) at key times when they see sales (events or season releases). 2. Dungeons. I disagree the problem with dungeons is that Shattered Throne was free. Aztecross even hints to the awful marketing making it seem like for the recent dungeon being part of the season. It's clear that separating the dungeons from other larger content is the problem. Players don't want to spend $20 to get 3 dungeons when they're also already spending $48 to get the seasons, $50 to get the expansion. They should have bundled the dungeon with the season pass IMO and when the season ends, have the dungeon be sold separately at a much lower price. 3. Season Pricing. This is partially covered under Apathy, but it's a scummy marketing tactic forcing players to purchase the larger bundle in order to have enough silver to purchase a season pass if they want one (and coincidentally never having enough left over for multiple season passes). I would say petitioning for transparency in microtransactions and asking for legislation to remove this abuse of premium currencies is the only avenue we have left. To add on the value of the season pass, I don't consider the cosmetics we get (1 armor set per class) valuable, you're going along with the arbitrary value Bungie has already set for them being $15 and using that to justify the $12 of the battlepass. The armor sets are arbitrarily set by a marketing team trying to maximize profits based on the amount of whales willing to buy them, this is heavily anti-consumer and again I'd point back to actions we as consumers actually can take to fight against it in point 1. I would cover holiday events and EV prices, but the former is beat to death and the latter is covered more or less under 1 and 3. I don't think I could convince you of the game being p2w at this point until something you care about is put under that pressure (day 1s or trials). For a player like me, Gjallerhorn was a clear step in them instituting a somewhat p2w model, though the problems the game faces are less to do with p2w and just with how egregious monetization has become. This is a premium game that has seasonal battlepasses, 2 forms of heavy monetization already, it adds on an MTX store effectively stripping greater possible rewards from players for $15 sets and then goes even further to sell dungeons and even certain content (30th anniversary) as another premium. It's disgusting how far Bungie goes with monetization and I wish more creators actually tried fighting it in a more meaningful way. To anyone who read through this, I hope I've at least made points to consider.
Stasis is a better argument for P2W than deepsight imo. When it came out, it was busted. Hindsight is 20/20 on the developer side, but it was and it stayed that way for a long time. PvE, PvP, you could pay to just be flat out at a higher power level in terms of lethality
Hell, take the 3rd super in forsaken and strand too. Those are pay to win It was understandable in forsaken, but not in beyond light and stasis. A quality of life change such as an element shouldn't be locked behind a paywall in a free to play game
Honestly I think you're being a bit too nice, the grenades were so comedically busted in pvp that it felt intentional to sell more DLC. There's no game dev in the world that thinks a tracking, multi-target 1.35 second hard cc is fair.
@@toxicmachine1895 developers have done that practice for years when making new stuff. They purposely make things strong and then nerf it later down the line. From Soft did this with DS3
10:20 Datto, you are wrong on this point. We don’t expect them to be free. We expect them to be included in the season pass purchase, or even the expansion purchase. You know, what they used to do before even conceiving of Prophecy. The current situation is not worse than getting a free dungeon. It is worse than any pricing structure dungeons have ever had. The truth is, despite cutting dungeons out of expansions, they have gone up in price anyway. Whether or not they included the dungeons in the expansions, they were always gonna raise the price. Bungie is not skimming slim profits off the top. They are gouging their player base.
You should expect them to be less frequent at the very least. We went from getting a dungeon every year, to getting a dungeon every other season. You can't claim gouging when the production levels of dungeons have expanded, and naturally, with that comes a price increase. Whether or not the price is right, is uncertain, that counts on the level of knowledge both you and I have. Unless you can somehow manifest the direct content to labor to price in how bungie operates, you can't claim they're gouging. You can at best say, it's not worth it to you, and you'd rather go back to a single dungeon a year.
@@cj6498 No, including the dungeons in the expansion would simply justify the jump to $50. I cannot believe people actually defend Bungie for cutting content out of the package that is the expansion while simultaneously raising its price. I’m starting to think this playerbase deserves Bungie. Bungie somehow doubles in size BEFORE the acquisition and I’m expected to believe their margins have remained the same?
I think the big reason why people say that Bungie doesn't care about destiny anymore is because since the marathon project was announced(before we knew exactly what it was), most people feel that there has been a decrease in product quality for destiny since that happened.
isnt marathon gonna be a battle royal pvp focused game anyway? it's gonna be their version of fortnite. i shudder and cringe at the thought of another carbon copy of fortnite. so done with that game type being plastered everywhere.
@@robosing225mate its not gonna be a a BR it's gonna be and extraction shooter . I hate when people mistake extraction shooters for battle Royales. Think of escape from tarkov or the cycle or dark and darker . This will be the first AAA extraction shooter . But seeing what bungie did to destiny yeah... I have my doubts
@@alpha-uk4mh well i say battle royal because every developer and their grandma are doing battle royals. It's so overdone and im tired of em. I'm glad to hear they aren't the same thing. Im pretty sure they gonna milk tf outta the game with microxactions like destiny's eververse store.
It makes me sad that we went from "we're inviting a ton of creators to come and give us their genuine opinions and really showing they understand what we want" to "I haven't said anything because I know they won't listen". What happened :(
Because that only happened in the first place because the game was on the edge of dying, only then Bungie was willing to listen to feedback from youtubers to help them fix the game.
Datto actually talks about this in his initial reaction in his vod. The people at the conferences are gameplay developers. None of them have anything to do with the amount or price of the microtransactions. Datto even says that he knows nobody that deals with those things at Bungie.
@@A_Cool_Tunafishbro the devs don't know shit about eververse that has literally zero to do with it. Plus they have probably already forgotten about that imagine having a chip on your shoulder about the "twilight garrison incident" childish.
The problem is not the dungeon should be free or not, the problem is that they stripped away the dungeon that is supposed to be included in a big DLC so people felt like being robbed on how DLC got increased price but got more and more lesser content every year.
but before we only get 1 dungeon per dlc right ? now it 2 dungeon per year but price should stay the same ? i mean i get it the dungeon key price is shitty thing but should they just make 2nd dungeon have it own key and not force us have to buy both at the same time ?
@@minhnguyen-fs2iv Remember that we also got 2 raids that comes in the Forsaken Annual Pass before, so that's not an excuse on how Bungie cut the content. Even the simplest thing like strike for example, I don't understand why we used to have 2 strikes like in WQ and Forsaken (Beyond Light too if I'm being generous with Glassway and Proving Grounds) then we only got 1 in Lightfall. I recommended you to watch that NovemberHotel guy, he explained the content cut over the years way better than me.
I wouldnt say the dlc has less content in it. The last time a dungeon came with an expansion was shadowkeep, and ill remind you that shadowkeep was pretty bare bones content wise. Meanwhile, lightfall and the witch queen have had full campaigns with actually engaging content and unique arenas, which dlc like shadowkeep had very little of. We are seeing less in some places, sure, but overall i think theres a net gain, even if prices are increasing to match that.
All this video accomplishes is running defence for Bungie. We'll probably never go back to the purchase model of the 90s / 2000s but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be vocal about the problems and our experiences. Bungie is flagrantly double dipping with $60-100 annual expansions combined with an aggressive $10-20 per item shop that belongs in a free to play game. Other games seem to be able to inject content into their game at regular intervals funded by micro transactions alone but somehow for Bungie that's an issue and we buy that excuse? Sorry can't throw you a PvP map this year as part of your $100 expansion, the money just wasn't in the budget, better luck next year. Dungeons reusing art assets and old boss models? Yeah $90 won't cover those, we're gonna need the extra $20. Fuck that. I think it's really easy to convince yourself $20 here or $5 there is ok because Bungie needs the support, but when it's put in the context of you just paid $500 for 5 years of this game, not including Eververse in addition, it's grossly out of line with norms in the industry. I firmly believe Aztecross' video summing up how bad it's gotten had an impact on some people's perception of the game and will convince some people not to get their friends into destiny and a few to walk away. Will it sink the game over night? Of course not, but if that sentiment builds up and the numbers from Bungie suddenly don't make sense anymore they will be forced to change or cave. You know what's not going to make the situation better? Excuses and telling people that even though it sucks they can't do anything so better just get used to it. This video accomplishes nothing other than covering for Bungie.
17:21 - 20:08 Honestly, this is just such a wet-sock take for me. I understand that it's silly to imply that these practices don't work or are exclusive to bungie is silly, and it's perfectly fair to point out that the reason we're even having this conversation is because *clearly* their pricing works for enough people. But acknowledging that "yes, this is the issue, so what" misses the forest for the trees, I feel. Not EVERY company uses the same level of aggressive MTX pricing, some are much better than Bungie, and some are much worse. The point is not to try and compare to see who's doing it worst or best, the point is to try and hold Bungie accountable for deliberately choosing to do this, and if your only response to that is "lmao the world is just like that now, sucks to suck, I guess enough people don't agree with you", all that does is work against any potential dialogue with Bungie. Why would you root for Bungie to be able to get away with this and not listen? Why would you be so damned apathetic?
Yeah, they wouldn't be adding new subclasses, updating old strikes, adding more content than previously etc. if they didn't care and TFS was their out.
@@TheCubby1985to clarify, are you being sarcastic and implying bungie do still care about D2, or are you being serious and saying these are all just a means to a very milky end?
@@TheCubby1985 I'm not saying they're not adding any good content. GotD is very good, recent QoL updates have been nice. But we gotta remember here that this is a **$100 per year** game (even more if you buy things separately). No matter how you twist it, it simply does not feel right to be nickel and dimed, more and more stuff getting put in Eververse AFTER already paying $100. Add onto that the mostly very stale copy-paste seasons we had the last 2 years and **absolute** neglect of PvP and, no, Bungie does not truly care about the players having a good experience.
My only real complaint is having to buy the dungeons separte from the expansions, that really needs to be rolled into a one price deal, atleast for me and the people I play with all agree on
@@underscore_5450 You used to be able to buy the expansion alone and get the dungeons on top regardless, so yes having to buy the deluxe edition is still a price increase for anyone interested
@@underscore_5450 oh yeah the bundle that doesn't actually save you any money it just saves you a click from buying two different things (that used to be one thing for a cheaper price) you can pay the same amount of money for those two things at once.
why do that when you can milk dumb kids for even more money? making prophecy free wasnt there mistake. charging extra for dungeons that _should_ be included with the season drop was the problem. trying to gaslight you into thinking it should be the other way around is asinine and will not change my position on the matter. the white collars had a meeting and figured out they can just charge extra for dungeons. it was green lit and here we are. it's just a choice on their end and die hard fans buy into it without the faintest doubt.
I like these videos. I think the reason Destiny gets in such huge ruts is because more prominent CCs & Streamers that have a voice & platform. Even if Bungie isn't really listening. Having zero push back allows them to run the ball further down the field without resistance.
The only resistance that works is people stop paying. The streamers are constantly complaining about monetization. You gotta accept the fact that people just want to play the game and not join a revolt
Stop paying then ig. And then watch the game get shutdown cause they don’t have any means of producing updates. And can’t use the “back then” argument. Those times they never post launch updated a game. They just started making a new one. But so many people want to be able to continue playing their favorite game, so as a company u get stuck trying to find ways to make money to pay ur employees to constantly work the game and keep the servers running. This has been a thing with MMOs. IMO mtx is disgusting when your game doesn’t have expansions or content updates and is just a PvP game, cause they aren’t putting in any substance 90% of the time
@@TheAcidicMolotov as the video stated: you actually cannit play Destiny 2 without being hoarded by Monetization. The in-game store pushes you to spend money even if you havnt spent any money on the store. Bungie did this intentionally. Im not a Destiny player but even I watched the whole 2 hour total video
@@Vanished584 you can be hoarded by monetization, but not forced to buy. YOu have self control and control youre own money. If you cant handle not paying for things then we should reconsider how we spend our money
@@TheAcidicMolotov We know people cant control themselves. If you can save time to buy things off the store then people will do it. And those who wont use the in-game store just quit the game anyway becuase their time Is being wasted
28:48 Anyone who took that this way is smokin all the drugs. I took it as you basically predicting the future and the scary reality of just how extremely close we are to that in D2.
i cringed and muted the vid. 30+ year old man acting like that infront of a camera, some problem there for sure. yes its an act but like i said cringe.
Josh Strife Hayes has an excellent series called "Worst MMO Ever?" in which he plays many terrible, predatory games and goes over exactly _why_ their monetization is predatory. Seeing those kinds of tactics invade Destiny 2 has my enthusiasm for the game at an all-time low, and I am currently not even considering playing during Final Shape.
@@A_Cool_Tunafishyea, I don't get what people are on about about "predatory". These micros aren't pay2win items. They are purely cosmetic and don't give adventages or disadventages, they just give you drip.
what i feel is that duneons should be apart of the expansion with now no real new strikes or pvp maps because we get old battle grounds from past seasons in the new vanguard playlist, also the incredibly mature of you part is very funny and glad to know there is no dumb pointless beef when everyone really should be mad/disapointed etc at bungie (the company, not the devs)
@@darthvader9173keep bringing up the content that had 2 codeveloping studios and was made on blizz's money, it will surely do wonders to your argument
@@kappegaf that was the case we would at least get half of what we got in TTK and Forsaken. Instead we got 1 crucible map in the last 4 years when we use to get 6-11 per year expansion. We get 0 meaningful updates to gambit. We get 2 strikes per year with the rest being rehashed seasonal content. We use to get 4-6 brand new strikes. Destiny 2 still has no strike specific loot. The quantity of content has gotten tremendously low. And the game has been on a decline since shadow keep.
I’d like to just comment on your thoughts pertaining to the season pass and the dollars to loot ratio. For starters, I’ll preface be saying that I don’t care about the price tag, I’ll agree that forcing players to buy excess silver based on available silver bundles is underhanded tactics and the season pass should be a direct purchase option for sure. As far as the value portion of that segment, while there are some great items in the season pass track, I think what you are forgetting to mention is the time investment that also comes with the price tag. Leveling the season pass is incredibly time consuming and requires a large amount of dedication. Every bit of free time must be used to ensure you get the most out of the season. This also includes the seasonal activities and the grueling process of farming for red borders and godrolls. Also keeping in mind how the new season is fresh and exciting for about a week and then inevitably becomes a chore. It has clearly started sooner than expected this season because I know I’m not the only one who has experienced players leaving Deep Dives immediately after match making. Keep in mind that I am only referring to one character as I pretty much only play my Titan but I can’t even begin to imagine the time invest for someone who chooses to complete all seasonal content on 3 characters. That being the case, I would argue that Bungie gets a far better deal than the community when you factor price/loot/time. Not to mention the fact that they are reinserting sunset weaponry and reskinned the very same weapons right in front of us lol. I don’t usually comment on the Bungie hate because it’s a corporation and I’m a simple gamer but the total lack of respect for the crucible has definitely got under my skin.
I feel like the annual pass as an impact on this. All the annual pass purchases usually bump up their $$$ numbers for that quarter. That means less individual season purchases. This creates a graph that shows a decrease in profits when you look at and compare quarter earnings. So the executives push for more monetization and such to make those numbers look higher.
The inclusion of dungeons on the annual pass also probably leads to the overall mid seasons we've gotten Since people pay upfront for the dungeons to not have to pay extra in piece meal, bungo is safe to drop some bad seasons since they are already paid for
Literally every other popular mmo has u pay for expansions as well as dungeons separately and even possibly a subscription. A lot of gamers should go back to playing single player games if they want a buy once experience. A lot of games now at days are semi mmo and take a lot of money to upkeep, end of story.
@@DavidUtau umm who said it’s just servers dumbass. Let me think here the employees, the building costs, production costs, marketing costs, equipment costs, paying back investors with interest… bungie isn’t just slapping weekly updates out for free, and yes servers can cost a lot. Why do u think tech companies are so massive? They own the servers. The cheap servers u think of are small ass personal servers. Servers that have to functionally run hundreds of thousands of people are different story my guy
I have to disagree with the dungeon free take. I don't think I ever heard a large noise about people expecting it to be free when they announced dungeons as part of the 30th anniversary or the dungeon pass key. People are annoyed right now because were paying more for the same content. Their not over delivering, Bungie is trying to give the same content for more money. I don't see this take as a hard truth but rewriting history to fit a narrative. Still a good video though and enjoy listening to your opinion on things.
Only difference is the insured cadence of having a Dungeon every other season. Before, Dungeons were never promised and were attached to Expansions maybe. I never expected them to be free, but I did expect them to justify a slight increase in season cost, not a whole separate purchase.
I know someone that bought the 100 levels and they only did it for the ornament set. He didn’t even care about harmonizers. He farmed last wish for the new red borders
The thing about them 'only caring about Marathon' is that we KNEW they were working on a new title quite some time ago. We already knew it was in the works, and now we SEE this new game showing as a promo. We can then clearly associate the haphazard updates to Destiny 2 as a result of them moving off Destiny 2. Reskins on top of reskins, one strike per expansion, re-releases of their 'vaulted content'. Like I understand making a game is expensive, but its clear that their funding has nothing to do with the quality of content being released in Destiny 2.
Destiny videos used to be a passion for Datto. I been watching him since before Destiny 1 and now he's just a Bungie kiss ass and scared to criticize them too hard. This isn't a passion for him anymore. It's strictly just a business. Criticize Bungie too hard and no more invites to their studio which would be bad for his business.
I love dungeons, but my issue with dungeons is that I shouldn’t have to buy a season, as well as the new dungeon. The dungeon should come along WITH the expansion. I know that it’s expensive to release a dungeon. But, for new players, they are tricked into thinking that a new dungeon is coming when they buy the pass, just to have to go buy another item because they don’t clearly state that you have to buy the dungeon pass on top of the season. On those new seasons. They should just bump the price up a bit instead of making you go through 2 separate transactions
Two main take aways if you don’t care for Bungie’s business practices: Bungie isn’t listening to your feedback on socials & Bnet. They are only paying attention to their profits. Stop buying silver!! Vote with your wallet. Have some self control over your addiction.
@@soulward6334 good job. I’ve been playing for 8.5 (uninstalled with LF). Even I’ve feel victim to the mentality “Oh well. It isn’t going away, so why not buy some silver and get some cool cosmetics.” Everytime I rethink about it I feel like a chump.
An issue of semantics is not inherently unimportant. The word for what free-play Destiny is already exists. It's a demo. The phrase "free to play" has a definite meaning, and the semantics are important here. Specifically, I have access to the entirety of Fortnight. For free. The money is all about looking cool. Calling free Destiny free-to-play is just incorrect. It's not a matter of opinion, and so the semantic discussion is highly relevant.
@@aaronsdaboss whenever some shill tries to justify these shady business practices, the bar is lowered the more people agree with said shill. it's people like those who allowed this to get so out of hand. people forget we have the power to make a difference. but most are comfortable spending their whole check on in-game content.
Outsider perspective: If you have to pay for an expansion and then pay individually for each dungeon of said expansion you are being scammed boys. That is predatory and deranged. I always wanted to try Destiny 2 in some Steam sale but the sheer amount of paying to access content to pay more for crafting materials to pay more for emotes skins and weapons. It is incredibly off-putting, expensive and convoluted for anybody that is even remotely considering trying this game. D2 genuinely seems like a gigantic flashy store that coincidentally has a game running on the background you can access from time to time between useless purchases.
i really do appreciate a lot of the big destiny content creators are speaking up on these topics, and to have these reactions is great to atleast have these conversations because you guys are people that have a platform to bring attention to them. Thank you Datto
@@justsomeguy2142honestly GJ was 100% honest and unfiltered. Cross was similar (a bit more polite and a bit too lenient), and then Datto is pretty much always absolving bungie of responsibility. I do 100% agree with this though. Content creators are in a weird spot that they can take advantage of both the community and bungie, and still make money from both.
@@Alex-ug9wx "Datto is pretty much always absolving bungie of responsibility." He definitely isn't though. He's just explaining their possible reasoning and incentive (money obv) but isn't saying that he supports most of what he had to explain. That's what the a lot of the intro was about. He's also explained multiple times how apathetic he mostly is to microtransactions because he knows that Bungie will never change course.
@@justsomeguy2142 could not have said it better myself. I’m definitely going to unsubscribe (not like he’ll miss a single person) because I cannot be bothered to hear the constant “players have no clue what they’re talking about” or “you aren’t qualified to be upset about a game that has more downtime than uptime”, etc, etc. and when it isn’t from him it’s from the people in the comments. I’m sick and tired of all the shit from bungie being swept under the carpet because us players “just don’t get how hard it is to develop a game”. For example in this video, datto claims himself and the players criticising bungie “have no idea what the cost of creating content or employing staff to do so actually is, so the dungeons being a separate and higher price increase is justified”. If you seriously don’t think it’s to fatten their pockets and be used for vanity projects and games they care about more than destiny, than you’re either naive or plain stupid. But that’s the destiny player base for you, ALWAYS looking for an excuse for bungie. I’m so fucking glad the community is waking up, and many will never touch another bungie IP (myself included).
@@justsomeguy2142 For that dungeons section, I'm not sure I entirely agree with the first "hard truth" that he talks about, but I feel like the second is a given. Bungie absolutely only does things when there's a money incentive for them. He explains that a bit better in the EV/Marketing section. Bungie only do what they do because they know for a fact that they'll get more profit from it. That's absolutely the real reason that PvP is neglected too. It makes them next to nothing compared to PvE. Literally almost every company does the exact same thing. That's also why Datto is so obviously apathetic because pretty much every company is like this, and he knows that they'll never change where their revenue is involved. It's also why I've stopped caring because I know they'll never change (like so many others). It's just the state of the gaming industry now. I'm really just here to see the end of the story while only logging in once every 1-2 weeks now. Again, I do not think Datto is necessarily defending or justifying Bungie's actions. He just knows some things can't be changed, so why even try? He probably is this jaded about it because he most likely went through the same general process when World of Warcraft first added micro transactions (they triple dip btw). He also isn't really saying that people are wrong to think the way they do about micro transactions. He's saying that 'it is what it is' and that there's almost no point to fighting it because despite everything there's always more people (the actual target audience for micro transactions) buying anyway. Side note: I wrote this directly after waking up, so please excuse any typos, repeating, and/or bad wording on my part. Also, yes, I am a fan (definitely not a stan as that would be weird and cringe) because I like his humor and respect his opinions on the state of the game (but it's really because of his builds, guides, and damage testing).
I dont know how much good faith you give bungie. You didnt opt for open criticism in this video, but that is, of course, your choice. As for myself, and I think a large part of the community, we do not. Bungie has not always been trust worthy and they have not always put their best foot forward. I think a lot of people see them as another big corporate gaming giant with some pretty lousy customer service
18:33 is my thoughts on literally everything right now lmao. People buying graphics cards, new cars, micro transactions, literally everything, it's kind of frustrating how everything else is mad expensive because 90% of kids are still living with their parents because housing is crazy expensive (myself included) and have money banked to just buy WAAAAY overpriced things and "don't care about the cost"....that is why 3 Call of Duty skins costs the price of the entire game itself...........
@@iamburkocan you make examples of what you see as excuses at every turn? i think the portion with the EV makes a lot of sense and the whole playerbase does not share the same opinion anyway
@@BRAY_v implying that dungeon price hikes are justified because we “have no clue how much time and money goes into designing them”… so somehow that justifies a ginormous price increase. It gives off the same vibes as “game developing is hard, so you shouldn’t be demanding your money back because the servers are broken 4 hours every day”. Servers were down 3 times in 24 hours the other week. Each time over an hour. MATCHMAKING didn’t work. The most integral part of this game was BROKEN for over an hour. This is NOT acceptable. Can you imagine if GTAO’s menu suddenly didn’t let players load into the game? I imagine rockstar would be in a shitstorm they would probably not recover from for at least a few weeks. With bungie though? The players EXPECT it and EXCUSE it. You don’t find this level of quality for THIS much money anywhere in the gaming world, and that is a fact.
“Online multiplayer games used to ask if I cared to spend a few bucks while I played. Now they ask me if I care to play a few games while I spend money. In the end a good game with bad monetization is a bad game.”
One thing that neither you nor Cross mention is how some eververse ornaments actually change the functionality of some weapons for the better. I'm not sure it is pay to win, but I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned.
@@justsomeguy2142 but youre absolutely correct to me only very few, dont give a shit an tell it how it is andd maybe Cross it the biggest CC that does? I felt like this vid by Datto was super cope imo
@@justsomeguy2142 Im not a fan of his either so i rarely watch a vid ever, only watched this to see howd he come up with somehow not agreeing essentially HIMSELF and i wasnt disappointed but it still surprises me how fkn strong his fanbase loves him i legit dont get it...
Much like Datto, I've been playing games long enough to have watched gaming introduce DLC, Lootboxes, microtransactions, banning lootboxes etc... The "hate" for some of them (microtransactions mostly) has been constantly strong and definitely heard from EVERY game company that has them. And yet, here we are. The sad thing is, companies have spent MILLIONS+ researching this stuff and annalizing the statistics. What they have clearly figured out is, no matter how many people publicly hate it, there are many more people that are silent that will go along with it. I have very little reason to believe Bungie is going to go against this standard or "limit" that has been determined by these studies for a few reasons. One is Destiny 2 is the only game they have out that is likely capable of paying their bills. I doubt D1 is making much money at this point and their original titles are so old they are not even able to be bought if I'm correct. Another is, that would now cause tension for Sony since they just bought them. People keep thinking "Oh, Sony bought them so now they are not strapped for $ anymore and can be less greedy." That is not how that works, instead, Sony will be expecting Bungie to make as much or even more money as they were when they bought them so Bungie can keep its value if they want to sell it and or so they know if they can trust Bungie to make a game for them that will make money. If they fail this, Sony could just dump them and even sell them to someone like EA. Do I like microtransactions? HELL NO. I never have. But I'm with Datto on the fact it's a pointless fight at this point. And truthfully, just not paying for the microtransactions is not and never has been enough. The only option to stop it is for everyone to stop playing the game. But that isn't going to happen. So all I can say is, after FinalShape happens, I'm done with the franchise. I've stuck around since D1's launch so I'll at least finish the light v dark saga. Then, I'm done with Bungie.
You should just stop gaming if you don’t wanna support a company that has micros in games. Like you said it’s here to stay and more will follow. Don’t want to buy something? THEN DONT!!!!!!! Its that simple people.
@@FalconStkr1What is this only Triple-A games exist now? lol Plenty of millions of hours of indie games to play that only require the one purchase and you got the full thing. It’s really only the most expensive games from the biggest companies that do this sort of stuff. Right or wrong that’s just how it is! So I say jump into the smaller game scene if you don’t want to support or interact with these kinds of practices. They deserve your attention as well~
People really thought the bit of Cross hovering over all the things Datto prophesized was an attack on Datto??? I just took it as Cross almost paying respect to Datto (may not be the right phrase) for his Prophecy of the worst timeline we have found ourselves in. Like "Datto warned us, and it has Come to Pass." Either way though, glad Datto and Cross cleared it up with little to no Malfeasance (Hopefully not too big of a reach with The Last Word there.).
That’s how bungie shills think, a attack on the game is a attack on them because their life is basically destiny, they spend more time and money on the game then any girlfriend or loved one, they are just in denial mode and can’t accept the state of the game and all that time and money leading up to something like lightfall
One thing about the dungeons you got wrong imo is the fact that before dungeons were linked to the big dlc drop like pit of heresy being tied to the shadowkeep I mean if you bought the shadowkeep automatically you got the pit of heresy aswell even without the annual w/e thing but rn if you want to enjoy the dungeon but havent bought the annual pass ultra turbo deluxe edition of lightfall you need to spend extra for the dungeon and that pulled the trigger for many people out there.
Exactly. And it's not like we are asking for dungeons to be free(although that would be very nice), we are simply asking that the dungeons be included with the standard expansion purchase instead of making us buy a separate dungeon key.
@@rithvikmuthyalapati9754 But then they can't rip off people by selling 1 dungeon for $20. It's entirely community driven phenomena - this would never work in a game populated by 15-18 year-olds. In Destiny 2 it works because Frank comes home from work on Friday & pays that $20 dollars without giving a single F.
Man. Wish I saw this mythical Datto who really cared about the game that my buddy's who got me into destiny 2 always talked about. I have yet to see this "Angry Datto" or even a bit more emotion than a millennial who just gave up on everything. Destiny needs some new, energetic creators. Old guard needs to retire. "Battle was lost a while ago" is what the stereotypical old general who quit says.
This is a sad sad video. This is a man whose moved his goal posts and doesn’t have true principles. Bungie has done everything he said he’d be mad about and yet he’s here still making excuses for them. Also talking out both sides of his mouth. In one sentence he makes fun of people who say “vote with your wallet” and then later in the video he affirms how much authority the spenders have. So I’m confused on how much power he actually lends to voting with your wallet. This is what addiction looks like folks. Datto is either addicted to destiny or he is adjusting his stance because he doesn’t feel creating content for a new game will make him as much money as he’s currently making. If it’s the latter that’s still a form of addiction known as greed. And even though he made fun of this concept he was right: if you don’t like microtransactions then quit buying them.
Covering Destiny is his job. And with most people who work with a job they hate. They dont do it because they want to, they do it because they must. Atleast until something better comes along....
Datto, id be careful with your dungeon argument. I dont know a single person saying they should be free, and moreso, i havent heard ANYTHING about prophecy being used as an example. Hell, i forgot prophecy was free. This is not the argument ANYONE has. Its the fact that theyre not in the dlc anymore, which the dlcs have already been increasing in price while arguably decreasing in content. Theyre double dipping, and that is why everyone is upset.
My biggest question is how on earth do they think the event card is valued the same as an entire season pass? The season pass gives you 2/3x the amount of items for the same price, it's 200 more now, but my point still stands.
I’m really appreciating him saying we’re dumb and Bungie is smart. Last I checked, the customer is right. I know what I want, fuck this “You think you want that, but you don’t.” Bullshit.
@@alzyllahe’s talking about how many people actually and legitimately take dattos opinion as their own. People constantly quote him whenever they see someone criticising the game
He's saying we collectively are stupid for thinking we know more sales data than Bungie on who is purchasing their content and at what price. As soon as he said that, I knew someone would prove him right and not understand what he is saying.
The market value of cosmetics? You mean a digital piece of data that has no value at all and scales infinitely for developers? This type of thinking is how why developers get away with it. "Everyrhing is worth $40 if i bought them individually, so $10 is a good deal." Wake up people.
@29:46 I watched Aztec's vid and it's hard to fathom (at least for me) that the point was misconstrued. Even more so that somehow you're catching undeserved blame. You were just being realistic about Destiny 2's future possibilities.
Can't believe I just watched a 30 minute video of Datto being wrong. There is no point in defending bungie. We've seen peak bungie and saying that anything Aztecross was incorrect or unjustified is ridiculous, and Bungie is going to look up to you as a part of the people defending them. They are objectively making the game worse, and they will be using your video to defend themselves in the future. Destiny was simply better under Activision and ironically had more love behind it. Now? It's a dumpster fire in decline and it has been since the content vault. I'm happy to elaborate on any disagreements, but int the interest of not wasting my time in case nobody reads this at all, I will refrain from elaborating now and instead make a summary. F2P: The game truly is a free trial in F2P, no defense for that. Saying it is F2P is a scam and malpractice in business. Warframe and Fortnite did it better. Bungie opting to F2P later does not make them exempt from this criticism Paying for content: Here we mostly agree. Although again, Bungie is being very predatory and there is no defense. Dungeon and Season pass: Dungeons should be in seasons, otherwise, neither the season nor the dungeon pass would be worth their price. Overdelivering was never a thing in a game that is anorexic content-wise. Period. Also, no one buys the season for the cosmetic, we buy it to stop going back to the free trial-state we would be in by not being able to do anything in the game again. The season pass cosmetics are just bloat to increase the value of the season so they can suck more money - which like fools, we all fell victim to. Also, quick reminder, Destiny one never had any of these issues and was still a fire game to the end. Also, the free April update was a thing. Holiday events: We are celebrating as a community on a game we love. For them to profit more than just through the store is simply unjust. Bright fust cost should be required so you could buy every event each year for your main without sacrificing a certain event's cosmetic, even as F2P. Also, they have been releasing less content for events, and that is bad - not "streamline". P2W: Resources in pass are bad. Just give cosmetics. Also, pre-order weapons bad. Enough said. No valid counter-point can be given here without being wrong, but feel free to try. 2 Adults: You overreacted and were reaching for points that weren't there. How you thought people were blaming you and not shitting on bungie is beyond me, but maybe, knowing the internet, you did get people idiotic enough to blame you. Truth is, that is not what Aztecross meant, and if you were angry about people mentioning you and saying stupid shit, be angry at them, not Aztecross. Funding Marathon: Bungie abandoned Destiny and is giving us only what we need to not start a boycott twards their company so they can continue paying for their next game. Don't be fooled into thinking anything else. That's about it. I'm tired so anyone feel free to comment and I'll respond when I have energy again. I love this channel and wish the best for Datto, but bad takes have to be called out no matter who they're from.
Datto really missed alot of the points of aztecross video to make bungie look better lmao didnt sit through this video to hear datto do eververse pr for bungo
Ah man, you’re really speaking favorably on the “don’t overdeliver” comment? That’s embarrassing. They’re not over delivering. Not even close. The entire idea that these pieces of content all need to be piecemealed and sold at premiums so the company can make a profit is laughable. The company is rolling in it.
i mean hes correct, from both a financial and dev standpoint, it makes sense to not overdeliver. does it mean its a good thing, no but from a companys perspective it makes complete sense
@@paramveersingh3666 again, they’re not even coming close to over delivering, so this rhetoric is in fact totally nonsensical. This shit is the type of weaponized incompetence shitty dudes lean on to make their girlfriends do everything around the house while they sit on their ass playing games - probably this shitty game. It goes without saying that a companies financial interests are best served by doing the least and charging the most if they can get away with it. What works best for the company should never be the primary concern of the consumer, and consumers need to wise up that if a company is outright telling you that their priorities aren’t the consumer interest, consumers, advocates, and commentators, really should be seizing on and disparaging that, not rationalizing it. Don’t ever empathize with a corporation.
This felt like a destiny defense video. Everything was like “yaaasss that’s kind of true butttttt” 🤦🏼♂️😂 For sure a step in the wrong direction. They need to change a lot.
Sad that red war is not playable anymore. It was a great starting point for new light, me included, with a great story to get into the game. Sunsetting all the story and good old content was a big mistake from bungie. The new new light experience and overwhelming number of quest after u get to the tower is stunning. I know a lot people that try d2 and quit after they saw all the necessary purchase to play more then the boring core activities and a lot of my friends quit the game after relaese from beyond light. I'm a solo player now ._. its just to much money ever year/season for them to spend on a game just to play new things.
Fr. Bungie should never have removed Red War. Such an amazing story and fun experience and the entire plot line of Destiny 2 starts upon that. It was the beginning and they removed it
two of the starting quests are dungeon completions lol, like chill bungie. i didn't know what a kinetic weapon vs a special weapon was when i picked up both those quests
Need Aztecross’s reaction to Datto’s reaction to Aztecross’s reaction to Datto’s micro transaction video
Jokes aside, I'd love to have a video of them talking about D2 stuff podcast style.
@@katanafourzeronineno, we need to hear from byf. Kackis has already done a video
I know its a meme but I would 100% watch it
@@katanafourzeronine no I like intros under 5 hours thanks
Was just gonna say this
Want to chime in on the hard truth moment about dungeons. I think the major problem isn't that dungeons aren't free, but that you can buy the expansion (which is what they used to be tied to) and the season in whish they come out, and you STILL need to buy a 3rd item in order to get them.
100% its why i refuse to buy dungeons now. and it fucking sucks...
Exactly!! If Bungie sticked with an annual pass sorta thing where seasons and dungeons were bundled it would have been better in my opinion... Bungie monetization schemes should be investigated. Epic learned their lesson with their practices on Fornite and I'm 100% Bungie sure would be in the hot seat as well.
@@drb1157 what you're talking about is the deluxe edition for dlc's. It gets you the yearly dlc, the annual pass, and the dungeon key.
Pretty much forcing the deluxe edition purchase if you want all live content per expansion per season per year.
They need to be bunched in the season pass this shit is absolutely sad
I must say I never thought when watching Aztecross's video that he was implying any of it was Datto's fault.
He wasn’t. Datto seems to think cross can and does control what a millionth of his player base says, and chose to use this point to negate people’s opinions about how he’s sat around on his arse all these years while this previously mentioned slippery slope has gotten greasier and scummier, and increasingly hard to stay on top of.
@@Alex-ug9wxDatto dosent think that either, but since Datto's video has been used and people pinged him on his streams and Twitter he made a video about it.
Besides, datto made his piece two years ago, once when armor ornaments came out and the Foreververse video he made after that.
Hell half the stuff said in this video was what he said IN that video
@@Amirifiz I’m sorry but I refuse to believe his claims here.
He claimed that sooooo many people took cross’s video as a vehicle for blaming him, that he had to make a video to clear the air. I haven’t seen a single person claiming it was datto’s fault.
That being said, he absolutely should have said something more recently, especially on recent changes, and he really needs to stop being as shilly as he sometimes comes across. I think he’s a good content creator but it really seems like bungie and by extension destiny has bought his soul, and so he’s completely unable to process the concept of criticism. Just my opinion though!
@@Alex-ug9wxyou are 100% spot on. He is, and always has been, Bubgies golden boy. He will NEVER critique them to any serious degree because he is 100% bought.
Yeah, it did sound more like: "Datto called this out ages ago", that's why his video was part of Cross's video. He just basically said: "Datto said way back, that this can go very wrong one day. See, it did" and that's all there is to it :D
I never assumed dungeons would be free with prophecy BUT I think it’s bullshit we went from them being included in expansions to a separate pass after you already bought the big dlc and seasons
Yeeeeeaaaaah…
I’m sure there’s people out there with that opinion but I’ve personally never seen or heard anyone say “Prophecy was free so every other dungeon should be free stand alone.”
@@amorfati4927it should be part of the seasonal purchase, especially when they raise the price
They separated them because if I purchased the DLC and set my brothers console as my primary console he wouldn’t have to pay for it
This is a workaround they’re using to avoid that
Considering all the games that already do this even without account sharing in the mmo realm, it should’ve happened a while ago.
@@Mashamazzino it should be part of the expansion, like any other MMO, the fact you need to even pay for seasons is a joke, especially considering most of the content is just reusing old assets, and there is already heavy monetisation
If Eververse Bright Engrams had a true knockout system, the community would probably be a lot less upended.
Even with a knockout system there’s probably like 100 ghost peojections, spawn animations, blue emotes that enter the pool every season anyways. Cross made that point in the video. The Engram pool is getting more diluted with “trash” over time anyways
Thanks Rhulk
The Upended is alive. You have no more tasks ahead. Lie down and embrace the darkness beyond your final days.
The Upended. A title suitable for that which turns worlds upside down. When I was still uninitiated, I would stand guard at my post. I would look to the sky and see the two suns of my Lubrae: one eternally shaded in the dark, the other always a brilliant blue. And in them, I had seen the folly of our kind. A fear of something we believed bigger than us… and a reliance on that which kept us. That blue sun that we harnessed our power from… a simple reversal of that power cracked the blue in half. Shut it off. And Lubrae… died. I did not know it at the time, but it was necessary. And now that Savathûn has trapped me within these walls, it will be necessary again. My Witness… whether I survive Savathûn's betrayal or not, the Upended will ensure we salvage our perfect goal. The final abyss… awaits us all.
When I stood on that precipice, watching the only world I knew collapse under its own weight… I was prepared for the splendor of abyssal eternity. But you brought me forth, my Witness. Freed me from the world that imprisoned me. Made me see the ultimate truth, one I could never see alone… That on my planet Lubrae, who I was, where I was, what I believed mattered - all amounted to absolute insignificance. I keep this mural not as some worthless sentimental reminder of what I lost, but of the opposite - of what I gained. Power. Truth of the inconsequence of most. Control over the universal strings of fate. For all this, I am eternally grateful, my Witness.
It was your infinite wisdom, my Witness, that led me into the planet's great sea… and face to face with that which was believed to be unbeatable. You instilled in me a true understanding of wanton domination. Not for pleasure, but as a means to achieve our absolute finality. When I reached the creature known to some as the Leviathan, it laid its thoughts bare. "Turn from the deep, fearmonger," it relayed. "I know what you seek. Press on, and you will drown in it." "I do not drown," I spoke with a defiant tongue. In a mere infinitesimal measure of time, I held a rib of this beast in one hand and pushed aside its maimed vessel with the other. "I rise."
Puppets, all of them. Every last Krill. Every last Hive. I once believed in a higher calling as they do. But you know that. You rescued me from that. Eternal appreciation doesn't even scratch the surface of what I owe you for the gifts you gave me. I know you hoped the Krill would see it too. We tried. We really did. But we had to let them struggle… All because of a belief that purpose had finally found them. Given them strength to conquer an oppressive homeworld. How else were they to grow? Their loss, however, is for them to grieve, not us. We will continue forward. Greater purpose awaits, my Witness.
"Conqueror," many called me. Again and again, I heard this word. Lobbed my direction not with admiration, but with malice. "Not a conqueror," I would respond with glee. "What, then?" they would ask. I do not tell them, my Witness. As you so graciously taught me, I show them. Just as I did in the unholy den of those starving "worm gods." I'll not forget the stench of their rotting flesh… or the way they cowered as I drew near. But they soon learned I was not to be feared. In the end, I left them only a promise of sustenance, and in return, they became chattel for our greater purpose: absolute finality. And as I walked away, their fountainhead in tow, I could hear them whisper with respect: "Subjugator."
*UPENDED*
10:32 Your point is wrong. The community does not expect dungeons to be FREE. We expect dungeons to be included in the OVERPRICED DLC, the way things used to be.
To add to this, we can argue that Prophecy wasn’t even free to begin with. Beyond Light has no dungeon, Prophecy was just released a couple months before the expansion, technically including it with BL.
Careful. He was creating a strawman to disregard the fair arguments made by those who don’t want to pay hundreds per year to access the same (in fact, worse) content year after year.
prophecy was realesed in season of arrivals and this season was included with shadowkeep wich was year 3 of destiny 2.
beyond light started year 4 of destiny 2.
This mean that shadowkeep got 2 dungeon in the yearly offering one with the extension and the other free during a season.
Season of arrivals has been removed from de the game but prophecy is still free to this day wihch prove is point in the video.
i agree that dungeon should be tied to season/extension but prophecy has a dungeon, his the same as the other except is free.
Exactly, they're supposed to be included in the expansions we pay for.
Something to note is that all those dungeons which came in the expansion, prophecy included, did not have their own unique weapons, and most didn't have their own unique armor either, aside from the exotic weapon in each of them.
It was only with grasp of avarice, when we started paying for dungeons, that a full unique set of loot was made the standard.
If we make an assumption about cause and effect here (and I will admit, it is an assumption, but that's the best we've got), then realistically, we can look at that as evidence that giving out more money for these dungeons not only allows bungie to make more of them, but also allows bungie to fill them with new loot that is desirable.
Datto even mentions this within the video. The more new loot that comes in a dungeon, the higher the cost of production, and I don't know about you but I'm not exactly running shattered throne or pit of heresy anymore. Why would I? Everything good I could get from them can be farmed as world drops.
If paying for dungeons keeps us getting unique loot, I'm gonna keep paying for dungeons.
Ok. But then seasonal prices have to go up
“If I had a nickel for every Destiny RUclipsr that posted a reaction video today I would have a lot of nickels.”
"If I had a nickel for every Destiny RUclipsr that posted a reaction video today I would have two nickels, which isn't a lot but weird that it happened twice."
@@ProfessuhLemonyea that's just so far today. It's actually been so out of hand I've started to unfollow people
Wait have you always been forcer69
DUDE AZTECROSS REACTING TO THE BYF VIDEO LIKE A COUPLE HOURS AGO NOW THIS💀💀
@@meanerminnermina7333he feeding the flames so people will come by his side 😂
I agree with your point on Prophecy, but the argument of most people isn't that dungeons should be free, it's that they should be included in the paid content of the season they release in
Yes, this!
I get some of the confusion with marketing but come on, Prophecy has been the only dungeon to kinda part of a season. Everything else has either been a standalone purchase (Grasp, Duality, Spire, Ghosts) or was part of an expansion (Shattered and Pit). We've literally never had a dungeon included with a season. I think it would be nice and I'd definitely like them to be included but why do you guys think that's going to happen? What has Bungie done to indicate that Dungeons would be included with the season purchase? I don't get it tbh
Exactly. Either seasons quality shouldnt include dungeons because they're a completely seperate purchase and entity, or dungeons should be counted under the seasonal grind and what to do in the season and be purchasable in the season.
@@underscore_5450 Then make it part of the Expansion price. They already raised the price for no reason multiple times and it now includes less content than what freaking Shadowkeep had.
@@underscore_5450oh idk maybe two DLCs called Shadowkeep(pit of heresy) and Forsaken(shattered throne), one of which that has had most of it's content completely removed but is still sold as a 30 bucks legacy pack
Oh btw, how are you liking you're new enemy veriety of one and the many new strikes ?
for deepsight harmonizers i personally would love to see them added to high end content master and GM level nightfalls, master lost sectors, etc
Or at the very least make it simimar to Ada-1's armor bounties and limit it to like 5-10 per Season per account
Or let us buy deepsight harmonizers with nightfall ciphers. If I already have the roll I want on my adept nightfall weapon, it would be cool if I could then use my 10 ciphers to pick up a deepsight harmonizer. It would have to be timegated like Rahool's materials exchange to 1/week so that people aren't out here unlocking raid patterns day 1, but it would at least give people another reason to engage with nightfalls past the loot and title.
I think this would be a perfect idea. let us hold more than one at a time. But them being a reward for high end content would be incredible. I used to be that player with a ton of time in game, but never touched master/GM nightfalls or raids. The rewards for GMs and the availability of crafting raid weapons is what got me into endgame content over the last year. They just need to add proper rewards to certain activities and the gametime of player will go up.
Something that a lot of people are completely overlooking is when Bungie stated that the deepsight harmonizers being in the season pass is the initial rollout of them, and that they'll see how things go with them, and then will see where else they can put them to offer more of them to the player. A lot of people seem to have forgotten that, though I will admit that we don't know when that may happen
More likely it's gonna end up in Eververse rather than GMs etc 😅
I think Aztecross did a good job using clips from Datto's monetization video to make his point
We hear you and now announce that seasons will cost 25 per month!
I don't think Aztecross made any good points in that video.
@@Gallus11Bit's okay that your media literacy is low cuz other people understood his points and it resonated with most of his audience
@nailinthefashion Most of his audience are low IQ children who can't grapple with reality yet. I mean, in the entire video he raged about "pay to win" and then failed to define it correctly or identify any P2W examples in D2. Not exactly a compelling video.
@@Gallus11BI’d recommend rewatching it with an adult present next time
How did people mistaken cross using Datto's voice-over, while showing the items in the season pass, as some sort of stab. It was clear as day the intention behind that clip @ around 28:20 was to show that Datto's take of bungie implementing things has aged like fine wine. Literally at the start of his video Cross explains that.
For the same exact reason Datto got so triggered by it as he explains in the above video. You're asking why as if datto himself didn't see it in the exact same way. Cross is simply saving face when Datto reached out. Cross' video speaks for itself. Shit's gonna hit 1 million views sooner than later.
Someone’s gotta pay for all the upkeep. And when there’s not enough money to upkeep the game, it turns to shit. Bungie doesn’t want to be stuck exclusively making destiny, it makes sense, but with all the complaints of extra purchases the in thing to be negative about, a lot of multiplayer games are getting put in the ground cause they can’t pay to upkeep the shit.
@@rjmacready6693 Nah I’m just saying people take anything out of context and turn it into something completely opposite of what it was intended to show. I’m not asking why did Dayton take it like that and have the conversation with Cross, i’m just confused on how the people who kept dm spamming and @ing him took that one piece of cross video out of context. Datto literally states that he didn’t take it that way and ONLY after took it that way after so many people kept saying the same thing and got worried about the intention of that said clip.
@@ayMochii highlighting your own comment....fart in the wind bud and always comes off defensive. Which is fine thats your prerogative. Not my way of articulating my stance on YT but that's okay. Datto literally reached out to Cross because "it bothered him". Only after Cross telling him no no it's all chocolate and hearts did Datto feel like it was simply a misunderstanding of Cross' reasoning for including Datto's take on micros not once but multiple times in his viral video. And didn't know Datto's real name was Dayton but now your initial take makes more sense than it did before I knew you know Datto's real name. Hope you enjoy your day homie.
@@rjmacready6693 ?? The Dayton thing was just autocorrect and I don’t highlight comments cause idek know how to. I barely ever comment but I thought this was something I had to say. Idk what’s your deal but I wasn’t trying to argue when I responded back. I was trying to clarify my meaning cause you clearly didn’t understand what I was saying
I think my biggest want for Datto to respond was about the clip 'you'll have my rage.'.
What I've seen from Datto these past few years is apathy and even a feeling that he thinks the community is a bit entitled. There is no rage from him. There isn't even a 'slightly miffed', just a shrug and acceptance that Bungie gonna Bungie and I get a feeling of a bit of "don't bite the hand that feeds you".
I get it. Priorities shift as time goes on. What used to be important can become insignificant, and what was minor can become important as someone moves through life.
That was a clip of him excusing stepping on that slippery slope, saying that he would be there to be another voice speaking out about it. And that's not the case. He's rarely speaking out about it, and that's only after being hounded to speak out about it.
I get the feeling from the few times that he has spoken about these things, it's a "I've said my piece, it's on the internet for those who want that information. Moving on." That's not adding your voice, that's adding a footnote.
Someone needs to pin this
@@MichaelBrown-kk8wo I'm not expecting it. He's made it clear that he thinks this point of contention was lost _long_ ago, and this isn't something that customers can fight. Too many people will just not care and continue to throw money at companies because it's worth it for them, and it's not our place to tell people what to do with their money.
He's mostly right. It _isn't_ our place to tell people how to spend their money, nor is a relatively small amount of people who are aware of what is happening going to move anything. What needs to happen is education, and that requires a concerted effort of people with large platforms constantly talking about the issues and potential actions to fix the issues.
Some random commenting on a RUclips comment isn't going to do that, especially with a comment that isn't a snippet and made a while after the RUclips video went up. What is though is someone with a large audience that can speak from a place of authority, not letting it go....
This this and this.
@@leadpaintchips9461which he can lead that effort by keeping the pressure on.
@@leadpaintchips9461you can tell people how to spend their money. It doesn’t mean it’ll do jack for most, but it affects some.
Bungie: Wait, did Datto just say the content of a season pass is worth $45.....*ups the price of seasons to $45
Dungeons shouldn't be free, but they should be included with the expansion. Them being completely separate from the campaigns or the seasons is egregious in monetization and is one of the main factors keeping people out of the game for me (anecdotal for sure, but I'm talking about 10 separate people)
U no kno how much money dungeon take to make, this take is uninformed
@@TheAcidicMolotov how much does it cost my man?
If it shouldn't be free then you are saying they should raise the price of dlc? That now forces everyone to pay more instead of who wants to play dungeons.
@@omensoffate idk but im not going to claim it takes no money to make. Thatd be pretty foolish of me to do.
@@TheAcidicMolotovso you responded to an uninformed take with an uninformed take?
Hard disagree on the expectation being that dungeons should be free. The expectation is that dungeons are included as part of content you paid for, and not an additional paid surcharge. You can still buy it that way if you buy the deluxe/annual pass version of the expansion.
then there's me who's like, the only person who remembers Bungie justifying the Eververse by saying "microtransactions will help bankroll side content like Dungeons (and etc) so they can be free"
sunk cost fallacy coping. bungie is gonna keep milking yall d2 players for all you’re worth and im gonna enjoy marathon when that gets the majority of their attention after release . especially since destiny pvp got abandoned forever ago.
@@ewaysrevenge Really, you're gonna give Bungie your money after this? Regardless if its "has their attention," whatever that means. Technically D2 has their attention, in how they can implement more ways of implementing FOMO. Nothing says they arent going to do that to Marathon as well.
@@iamoctonateto be frank I quite literally could not care less about what happens to destiny 2 now the micro transactions killed my love for the game and if marathon does well then ima have to give it a shot .
Ah, finally I can now have an opinion on the video. Thank you Datto!
this joke never gets old haha
@@ricenokimchiit’s always funny
it's even funnier the 500 millionth billionth time
I always appreesh when Datto tells me how I feel as well
@@cwj2733 not only that, but it’s shockingly accurate 🤣
I come across your videos several years back and you were very lively, passion driven and enthusiastic for game(s).
comparing to you now though. you have the facial expression and tone of voice of doing a job you've grown sick/tired of and just want to leave but you can't since the paycheck is good enough to keep a roof over you're head, food on the table and to pay bills. here's hoping you find a job/game that does make you genuinely happy instead of making you feel and look dead inside.
I'm just glad someone points out how wallet voting generally doesn't work online and game companies account for this ratio. For every 10 people you rally against buying things, there's some guy in Nebraska none the wiser that's absolutely hyped to buy 10 people's worth of cosmetics because he feels its worth it.
The issue is how insanely mainstream video games have become.
Remember when Magic the Gathering was going to release Restricted Masters sets, reprinting restricted cards at 1,000$ a box?
Yeah the MtG community is small enough, their collective stink caused WotC to cancel the set.
For gaming? Hardcore dedicated players now are such a small concentric circle within the large community, our problems don’t matter.
Because some idiot who doesn’t know better WILL spend money.
Nail on the head. The prime for video games has long gone.
@@floridaman6643 LONG gone. If you want your voice heard you play indie games.
the only actual way to combat this stuff is what a large portion of gamers refuse to accept & actively fight against which is politics. there is a reason predatory monetization is less effective in EU than other regions. because the EU has actively taken steps to mitigate it. China has done the same in the past couple years. meanwhile in countries like the US, consumers are actively throwing away their rights and mindlessly defending corporate greet & predatory monetization because fanboyism and rampant video game addiction is being normalized.
well they can point it out all they want but its incorrect. bitching and moaning and boycotting on mass gets things changed.
If this community had some semblance of a backbone and stopped buying silver, we wouldn't be having these conversations. These are insanely transparent marketing and monetization practices that millions of rubes fall for over and over again.
Are they rubes? Or enjoying the game differently while you fume at them? I understand the frustration but at some point we have to just accept the world is dictate by people which in turn dictate the markets
Do you think people care about that? They will buy as long they enjoy product lmao
Lol, the last 10 years of mobile gaming gonna put a hurt on your plan. Gaming is getting more and more accepted in our culture. That means more normies which gaming isn't a hobby to. Indy is our only hope.
@@TheAcidicMolotov I think the whole drama behind all of this is that, no, we don't have to accept any of this. There is more content and cosmetics locked behind eververse paywalls than ever before. We used to enjoy a less monetized version of this game just a few short years ago. Maybe a better term would be "whales" instead of rubes (i would argue they're the same thing) A small of percentage of players who buy literally everything.
@@bshonka1 what about the people who buy dlcs
We should really stop calling them “micro transactions” as there really isn’t anything micro about them anymore. It’s getting to a point of choosing between a full meal or a skin lol
for 20$ i can get lunch at taco bell
Don’t buy the skin. You don’t need them so just don’t buy it, you know the prices are dumb so why’re you even considering it.
@@A_Cool_Tunafish I’m not saying I’m getting to a point of choosing between food or skin. im saying in general the prices of a skin in games are hitting a ridiculous point. I personally haven’t bought anything from a micro transaction in years.
@@jak_2don’t worry dude, people love making strawman arguments to defend gargantuan corporations like bungie who are making record profits and delivering less for what we pay for. There will always be bootlickers salivating at the thought of letting their tongues touch a company’s shoe.
@A_Cool_Tunafish
Ah, the classic Bungie ass-kisser. Thing is, you let them get away with $20, then they up it to 25, then 30 because nobody cares enough to put their foot down.
But hey, if you really hate the game that much, I just hope Bungie's paying you well to spread this shit.
On the topic of Destiny 2 being more of a free trial than a free to play, I think Aztecross mention those 2 games because despite having MTX, all of the actual content is available with only non-gameplay related content being locked behind a pay wall (skins, etc.) In comparison to D2, with paywalled story and other massive content, making it more of a free trial or even a demo rather than an actual free 2 play game. I don't think it deserves to merely be brushed aside as mere semantics.
Yeah. It's pretty obvious that was the reason for the comparison. The fact Datto dismisses Aztec's point as semantics is in my opinion indicative of his attitude in general.
It's sad to say but I think Datto's opinion on these topics is null and void. People keep asking his opinion, so that's not his fault, but he's a content creator who earns his income covering one game. His perspective of monetisation and the content being offered is warped for a multitude of reasons, to name a few - has far more money than the average player, plays the game for work and had been doing so for a very long time now.
While Aztec is in a similar position, from my perspective he is usually far more objective and engaged with the average player experience.
I'm not trying to insult Datto. I just think, whether he realises it or not, his opinions these days feel like someone who is talking about their day job
@@NonConformistNinjasecause it is his day job. It pays the bills. Therefore, I don't expect him to be subjective about anything related to destiny... Clearly. Whenever people call him out on his bullshit he acts like an elitist and like he knows better than everybody. It's actually funny at times
@@NonConformistNinjas It's actually semantics.
In today's age of extremist, it's either full black or full white. People are so obsessed with 3 letters acronym that they argue uselessly with no one being fully right or fully wrong coz they don't go enough into details.
Just add a couple letters or numbers.
FTT20% or FTT40% or FTP60% or FTP100%.
@@rotuivongue3896 no its actually not semantics.
Being able to play the entire game for free and only monetizing the cosmetics is far different than playing 1/5th of the game and having a paywall for the rest.
Thats not semantics thats you getting cut off for things that are relevant to the experience.
When you realize exotic emotes used to be the same price as a whole season. Now there just a tad more expensive.
Eververse is just overpriced. No way an emote needs to cost that much or a ship/sparrow
That's the thing they don't need to cost that much, but it makes them more money to have it that way than to change it.
Might be able to get away with like mocap or some shit as an excuse for emotes. Some chucklehead has to do all those stupid poses. Granted, I don't think they're worth the price point either, but it's good to be able to think like a corporation.
heres the thing tho, Bungie didnt set the prices of emotes, Epic did with fortnite, Bungie, like MANY other studios, just copy and pasted fortintes pricing model, down the the rarity of items, imo its unfair to say Bungie is in the wrong, not because they aren't, but because it comes off as saying Bungie is the ONLY one in the wrong, its why I NEVER complain about Destiny's microtransactions, or Fortnites, or CODs, I complain about GAMINGS microtransactions, because this isn't an issue about [insert company] is greedy its an issue that the gaming industry is greedy
they’re*
I have no problem with cosmetics costing money. I do however have a problem with a “free” to play game having little to nothing to do for FTP players. Seasons cost money. Dungeons cost money, of course dlc costs money. You can’t play certain things without having the dlc either so it’s less like a free game and more like a free trial
Elder Scrolls Online does the bundles in the best way. Every year when a new expansion drops there's always a bundle that just includes ALL the previous expansions + the most current one and it tends to only be slightly pricier than the current expansion price.
I have not a single clue as to why Bungie doesn't do the same thing, it's like they're intentionally trying to scare off new players.
@@emogambino295 Gonna be honest, I genuinely don't believe you know what you're talking about. ESO has never "fallen". It got some flack towards the start because for some reason people thought it'd be Skyrim online when in reality it was an Elder Scrolls themed MMO but it's not like it's existence was ever threatened. It's always had a thriving player base.
Also Bethesda did not develop ESO, Zenimax Online Studios did.
@@emogambino295ahh yes being one of the 3 big mmo’s currently on the market is “fallen”
@@emogambino295 FFXIV does the same so its not unique or because ESO had a bad start.
Question. Ive never played any elder scrolls games but like destiny and other mmos. Is it too late to start elder scrolls online?
@@TheAcidicMolotovnah m8, they just dropped a new expac, great time to get in, no level requirement to play it.
1:56 Not to be that guy, but to be that guy, Warframe has those conversations. The amount of good will in terms of honesty of the company when it comes to microtransactions is almost unbelievable but they manage it. There is a way to make good money on your game and still treat your playerbase as your equal.
Ive never liked the monetization set up in the game....but $20 for 1 armor set (Jin) is complete fkn bs.
It's extra funny (and sad) cause all the games they do collabs with in order to overcharge for these armor sets either have their Destiny collab content at significantly cheaper prices (Fortnite, AC Valhalla), or simply don't have Destiny content cause they're great single-player games without microtransactions (God of War, Ghost of Tsushima, Horizon).
Destiny players seem doomed to get the shortest end of the stick no matter who Bungie chooses to collaborate with, which should really tell us how bad the MTX system in this game is compared to the industry standard.
Not only that but the price has been increasing season to season regarding crossover armor. We had the previous set sold for 2200, then they went oopsie and put an "on sale" icon next to it, not even lowering the price... and now the next set costs even more.
Call of duty:
It sucks but really it’s fairly standard. Look at Diablo 4, wildly popular game and a new cosmetic set is $20 as well, and that’s in a top down dungeon crawler game. Look at ESO, it’s a whopping $60 for a style unlock on that game. Cosmetics are getting more and more expensive because people keep buying them. Destiny is really no particular case in this regard unfortunately.
Think it all you want, enough people buy it for bungie to not care. Datto has a point - you just aren't the target audience for these armor sets
I definitely get your apathy. For me it's less apathy and more resignation. I hate all this monetisation, and I remember the good old days where you bought a game and had a game, when horse armour was a meme. The consumer has lost so much ground to the companies and I don't know what is needed to reign all this in
He is right. It is an already lost battle. Oblivion Horse Armor was a meme, but people bought it. Pricing and monetization is always "what will the consumer pay for, and how much?" All video games are a product to be sold, the current situation is because there is a market for what they are selling. There is nothing we can do about it - we did vote with our wallets and we were outvoted by those who bought the Horse Armor.
Find a day for all gamers to stop playing until they stop the BS then negotiate 😊❤
We can’t ever stop it, not unless there’s another video game crash like the late 70’s, which would bring it’s own huge issue’s
It is and has always been whale's fault. It doesn't matter how many people don't spend a cent so long as someone with more dollars than sense comes around and decides to buy the entire eververse in a day
You may think that all this monetization is stupid, but it works because there are equally stupid people
Remember that guy who spend 100k on Diablo Immortal? Doesn't matter what literally anyone else did, that one player made it all worth it for Bliz
Bully the shit out of everyone fueling this with their wallets
I think the issue with the Dungeon keys is that the dungeons they apply to are also listed as content in the season bundle, in order to make it look more substantial, When you need to buy the key separately. There is a reason toy commercials have to have a disclaimer about "batteries sold separately", otherwise you have been sold a product that doesn't work as advertised. Technically speaking, You said that people spending the money are in the driver's seat, but there is one group who can have greater effect on monetization. The Legal department. Lootboxes have seen a sudden drop in use due to legislation being threatened, the same will happen if a suit is pressed and wins.
Can we start a lawsuit?
@@beetsbyzey4658Probably but I'm not a lawyer.
Datto explaining what he means when he says stuff at the beginning, as if people aren't going to take it out of context regardless, will never not crack me up
The cool thing is that because he explains it we can write off those people when they do that.
They dont care about actually informing themselves or their opinions, and so those opinions mean very little.
@@dredgentruth3455 Lies go around the world in the time truth takes to get it's shoes on.
@@cj6498 Good Twain quote. He also said "For the history of our race, and each individual's experience, are sown thick with evidence that a truth is not hard to kill and that a lie told well is immortal."
This is code for "I'm shilling for bungie. While I might disagree with what they do I can't actually say that in case they invite me back to head office" Datto has sold out. Not since that interview with Luke has he called out bungie. His take here is awful and just a cop out. Saying what he says is just his way of defending that awful take.
@@tomh5094 Apples and oranges here man
Don’t apologize for uploading ever, your content is fire
@juan6297nobody likes u can guarantee that
@juan6297🤡☝️
@@Narks-then don't watch it?
@@Narks-simple solution, watch or do something else
@@Narks-thats like saying "i dont want to eat whats on my plate" well dont eat it then or eat something else lmao. No ones forcing you
I think my only issue here is how easily Datto dismissed the whole "buying content is P2W" when subclasses are locked behind said-content. If they weren't locked away then I'd agree, but Stasis when it came out, or Strand now are somewhat essential to PvP.
I see what you're saying. But those are from expansions anyway. Which the vast majority of active players are buying anyway. The game isn't free to play, with the option to buy new subclasses. Its a paid game with a somewhat substantial trial version.
I mean at that point you could say the entire game is P2W because the best weapons are behind expansions. And at that point you start to lose me.
@@OhYeah_ it’s true though isn’t it? Bungie can’t slap “FTP” on their brand and then put witherhoard or ace of spades behind paywalls. One of which is a vaulted DLC, and is still £20. Both of these weapons are king in PVE and PVP respectfully and are absolutely essential. Especially wither.
@@Alex-ug9wx yes I agree that the game is only free to try. But how can you not expect there to be new weapons and armour with paid expansions. And for those weapons and armour to be better than your previous gear. That’s sort of how loot based games work.
@@OhYeah_ typically though, it helps you get it faster. This is why I liked the idea of quicksilver being available for a few months to the deluxe edition buyers, and then available to standard edition buyers when the next season dropped. The same should be for the exotic kiosk.
Something like “buy the expansion and unlock these weapons for FREE (don’t have to buy them for in game resources) and then those who DON’T buy the expansions can buy them with the shards, cores, prisms, ascendant shards, etc.
Something that still makes it accessible to players through a grindy process, so it is still a good idea to buy the expansion, but it isn’t REQUIRED. Because as it stands now, THAT is P2W. You get subclasses, weapons that have been meta for years, etc, etc.
For example, can you imagine if graviton lance was in the kiosk in an expansion section? How would that NOT be pay to win? It’s dominating the PVP meta at the moment, and will for ages.
It’s the same with immortal. In case you don’t play PVP, it’s still, far and away, the BEST gun in the game. You have to PAY to access trials, which you then get the immortal from. That’s absurd. It’s been out for nearly half a YEAR and is still the most oppressive gun in the game.
Great! Now we need Datto’s reaction to Aztecross’ reaction to Byf’s reaction to the Witness origin cutscene. Let’s make it happen baby!
And then Evaze’s reaction to Fallout’s reaction to Datto’s reaction to Aztecross’ reaction to Byf’s video
In terms of expac bundles, I think everything that’s older than 2 years should be free. Somthing similar to what blizzard does for WoW.
How best to describe Destiny 2.
"You should've been there."
The game.
A friend of mine is the type that will religiously defend Destiny 2 till the deathbed (primarily due to the time sunk situation).
The game is both the most absolutely beautiful and amazing game due to its content, but on the same note also actively removes its own content.
There is a middle ground between free dungeons and the dungeon key. The dungeons could be included with the the purchase of the season. Much like Pit and Throne were included with expansions, Ghosts of the Deep should come with Season of the deep or Lightfall
It would just mean less profit and potentially fewer dungeons made.
@@icekyuu Bungie's already making record profits. And we're getting lesser and lazier content season by season. Not to mention NO real content for Crucible or Gambit for a LONG time. We haven't really seen evidence of this claim that more profit = more content for Destiny.
At this point it should be clear to you that more profit just means more resources devoted to Marathon.
As a new player just before Lightfall released, buying all the things that was needed was a nightmare imo I literally had to look up articles on what I needed. I got super into the game with about 300 hours, and I hadn't done a dungeon. After buying the pass, previous expansions, the new one and a few bits I wanted, I was instantly turned off once I saw I needed to spend more money just to access a dungeon. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be the only person that this happened too either!
@@ashb7 many assumptions in this onw comment though, you have no way of knowing anything you said is true
@@TheAcidicMolotov really? We don't know they're making record profits, when a simple Google search for "Bungie revenue YoY" should tell you that? You know this information is public right?
And my other statements aren't assumptions either, they're inferences based on what we've experienced, unless you refuse to acknowledge that Crucible and Gambit have barely gotten any content over the last few years, or we've started getting more reskins than ever before, or that Bungie decided to not honor their promise of vendor armor refreshes every year. While pumping out more Eververse stuff than ever before.
What, then, are the profits from increased season prices, multiple new forms of monetisation, and overpriced collab ornaments getting us in Destiny? Please, help me understand how huge amounts of profits have translated into more content for Destiny.
7:10 I still think that bungie should make anything older than 2 years free to everyone(currently beyond light and before) I'm pretty sure that most of their revenue comes from the silver and newer dlcs(which are more expensive), and by making this they would retain more players as any free player is more likely to spend on the game(via DLCs and Silver) if they are playing and in the current format a lot of free players just quit the game because of how little they have to do and how much things they need to buy
BuT i PaYeD fUlL pRiCe! ThAt'S nOt FaIr!
Hopefully, some of this gets handled in the post-final shape era, when the new player experience gets revamped.
But yeah, with the Forsaken pack, you’re paying $20 basically just to get access to the exotics, which feels really shitty
@@horrorfan117 the rebutal for that is paying $5 for what you spent $60 is basically free in this market. Also just tell them what content do they actually unlock? They dont even get anything meaningful, basically minimal to no difference from not owning it.
At least bungo should make Shadowkeep and Beyond Light free so the New Lights can have some story missions and a subclass to grind as starter content
Or just bundles all the previous 2 years old DLC as a complete bundles in a discount rather than selling it separately. Is just confusing for new players.
I'm going through these as I disagreed with them in the video
1. Apathy, and to a degree the willingness to accept the monetization. You're the largest Destiny content creator, combine that with the other creators who all agree with the insane levels of monetization from either manipulation through lack of transparency, gambling back when they were selling bright engrams, to the price increase and now individually selling dungeons. There is actually something you all can do to varying costs at your own livelihoods. You have combined communities of well over a million people, advocate for changes. It's clear vote with your wallet doesn't work when there's a large enough minority of spenders who outweigh those decisions. Change will probably have to be done at a legislative level. There's tons of gaming creators and advocates you all can combine with to make change from transparency in marketing (like removing premium currencies/forcing all items to have dollar prices) or more extreme measures like making manipulative tactics like FOMO illegal with digital goods (essentially paid goods that are infinite). The choices y'all could make that is of course the most damaging to yourselves, and I accept y'all can't do is gather as many people in the community as you can and quit playing and talking about Destiny for a long period of time (I'm talking a month) at key times when they see sales (events or season releases).
2. Dungeons. I disagree the problem with dungeons is that Shattered Throne was free. Aztecross even hints to the awful marketing making it seem like for the recent dungeon being part of the season. It's clear that separating the dungeons from other larger content is the problem. Players don't want to spend $20 to get 3 dungeons when they're also already spending $48 to get the seasons, $50 to get the expansion. They should have bundled the dungeon with the season pass IMO and when the season ends, have the dungeon be sold separately at a much lower price.
3. Season Pricing. This is partially covered under Apathy, but it's a scummy marketing tactic forcing players to purchase the larger bundle in order to have enough silver to purchase a season pass if they want one (and coincidentally never having enough left over for multiple season passes). I would say petitioning for transparency in microtransactions and asking for legislation to remove this abuse of premium currencies is the only avenue we have left. To add on the value of the season pass, I don't consider the cosmetics we get (1 armor set per class) valuable, you're going along with the arbitrary value Bungie has already set for them being $15 and using that to justify the $12 of the battlepass. The armor sets are arbitrarily set by a marketing team trying to maximize profits based on the amount of whales willing to buy them, this is heavily anti-consumer and again I'd point back to actions we as consumers actually can take to fight against it in point 1.
I would cover holiday events and EV prices, but the former is beat to death and the latter is covered more or less under 1 and 3. I don't think I could convince you of the game being p2w at this point until something you care about is put under that pressure (day 1s or trials). For a player like me, Gjallerhorn was a clear step in them instituting a somewhat p2w model, though the problems the game faces are less to do with p2w and just with how egregious monetization has become. This is a premium game that has seasonal battlepasses, 2 forms of heavy monetization already, it adds on an MTX store effectively stripping greater possible rewards from players for $15 sets and then goes even further to sell dungeons and even certain content (30th anniversary) as another premium. It's disgusting how far Bungie goes with monetization and I wish more creators actually tried fighting it in a more meaningful way.
To anyone who read through this, I hope I've at least made points to consider.
Well said Sir
Stasis is a better argument for P2W than deepsight imo. When it came out, it was busted. Hindsight is 20/20 on the developer side, but it was and it stayed that way for a long time. PvE, PvP, you could pay to just be flat out at a higher power level in terms of lethality
Hell, take the 3rd super in forsaken and strand too.
Those are pay to win
It was understandable in forsaken, but not in beyond light and stasis. A quality of life change such as an element shouldn't be locked behind a paywall in a free to play game
You can say the same about the blade barrage when it first came out.
Honestly I think you're being a bit too nice, the grenades were so comedically busted in pvp that it felt intentional to sell more DLC. There's no game dev in the world that thinks a tracking, multi-target 1.35 second hard cc is fair.
@@gamignman267they literally said stasis intentionally shipped strong. Pretty scummy tbh
@@toxicmachine1895 developers have done that practice for years when making new stuff. They purposely make things strong and then nerf it later down the line.
From Soft did this with DS3
10:20 Datto, you are wrong on this point. We don’t expect them to be free. We expect them to be included in the season pass purchase, or even the expansion purchase. You know, what they used to do before even conceiving of Prophecy. The current situation is not worse than getting a free dungeon. It is worse than any pricing structure dungeons have ever had. The truth is, despite cutting dungeons out of expansions, they have gone up in price anyway. Whether or not they included the dungeons in the expansions, they were always gonna raise the price. Bungie is not skimming slim profits off the top. They are gouging their player base.
You should expect them to be less frequent at the very least. We went from getting a dungeon every year, to getting a dungeon every other season. You can't claim gouging when the production levels of dungeons have expanded, and naturally, with that comes a price increase. Whether or not the price is right, is uncertain, that counts on the level of knowledge both you and I have.
Unless you can somehow manifest the direct content to labor to price in how bungie operates, you can't claim they're gouging. You can at best say, it's not worth it to you, and you'd rather go back to a single dungeon a year.
@@cj6498 No, including the dungeons in the expansion would simply justify the jump to $50. I cannot believe people actually defend Bungie for cutting content out of the package that is the expansion while simultaneously raising its price. I’m starting to think this playerbase deserves Bungie. Bungie somehow doubles in size BEFORE the acquisition and I’m expected to believe their margins have remained the same?
I think the big reason why people say that Bungie doesn't care about destiny anymore is because since the marathon project was announced(before we knew exactly what it was), most people feel that there has been a decrease in product quality for destiny since that happened.
isnt marathon gonna be a battle royal pvp focused game anyway? it's gonna be their version of fortnite. i shudder and cringe at the thought of another carbon copy of fortnite. so done with that game type being plastered everywhere.
@@robosing225 thought they said it was a extraction game similar to tarkov
@@robosing225mate its not gonna be a a BR it's gonna be and extraction shooter . I hate when people mistake extraction shooters for battle Royales. Think of escape from tarkov or the cycle or dark and darker . This will be the first AAA extraction shooter . But seeing what bungie did to destiny yeah... I have my doubts
@@alpha-uk4mh well i say battle royal because every developer and their grandma are doing battle royals.
It's so overdone and im tired of em. I'm glad to hear they aren't the same thing. Im pretty sure they gonna milk tf outta the game with microxactions like destiny's eververse store.
@@robosing225 if they do that then that automatically kills marathon it would be wise if bungie didn't do that but who knows .
It makes me sad that we went from "we're inviting a ton of creators to come and give us their genuine opinions and really showing they understand what we want" to "I haven't said anything because I know they won't listen". What happened :(
Defeat from them not listening. Do you stay in relationships where the other person never listens?
Because that only happened in the first place because the game was on the edge of dying, only then Bungie was willing to listen to feedback from youtubers to help them fix the game.
Datto actually talks about this in his initial reaction in his vod. The people at the conferences are gameplay developers. None of them have anything to do with the amount or price of the microtransactions. Datto even says that he knows nobody that deals with those things at Bungie.
Thank the twighlight garrison incident for the lack of community communication
@@A_Cool_Tunafishbro the devs don't know shit about eververse that has literally zero to do with it. Plus they have probably already forgotten about that imagine having a chip on your shoulder about the "twilight garrison incident" childish.
The problem is not the dungeon should be free or not, the problem is that they stripped away the dungeon that is supposed to be included in a big DLC so people felt like being robbed on how DLC got increased price but got more and more lesser content every year.
but before we only get 1 dungeon per dlc right ?
now it 2 dungeon per year but price should stay the same ?
i mean i get it the dungeon key price is shitty thing but should they just make 2nd dungeon have it own key and not force us have to buy both at the same time ?
@@minhnguyen-fs2iv Remember that we also got 2 raids that comes in the Forsaken Annual Pass before, so that's not an excuse on how Bungie cut the content. Even the simplest thing like strike for example, I don't understand why we used to have 2 strikes like in WQ and Forsaken (Beyond Light too if I'm being generous with Glassway and Proving Grounds) then we only got 1 in Lightfall. I recommended you to watch that NovemberHotel guy, he explained the content cut over the years way better than me.
@@minhnguyen-fs2ivthen make it so one dungeon in included in the dlc, and you have to pay for the other?... Duh?...
@@DavidUtauthese people will exercise mental gymnastics to defend Bungie
I wouldnt say the dlc has less content in it.
The last time a dungeon came with an expansion was shadowkeep, and ill remind you that shadowkeep was pretty bare bones content wise.
Meanwhile, lightfall and the witch queen have had full campaigns with actually engaging content and unique arenas, which dlc like shadowkeep had very little of.
We are seeing less in some places, sure, but overall i think theres a net gain, even if prices are increasing to match that.
All this video accomplishes is running defence for Bungie. We'll probably never go back to the purchase model of the 90s / 2000s but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be vocal about the problems and our experiences. Bungie is flagrantly double dipping with $60-100 annual expansions combined with an aggressive $10-20 per item shop that belongs in a free to play game.
Other games seem to be able to inject content into their game at regular intervals funded by micro transactions alone but somehow for Bungie that's an issue and we buy that excuse? Sorry can't throw you a PvP map this year as part of your $100 expansion, the money just wasn't in the budget, better luck next year. Dungeons reusing art assets and old boss models? Yeah $90 won't cover those, we're gonna need the extra $20. Fuck that. I think it's really easy to convince yourself $20 here or $5 there is ok because Bungie needs the support, but when it's put in the context of you just paid $500 for 5 years of this game, not including Eververse in addition, it's grossly out of line with norms in the industry.
I firmly believe Aztecross' video summing up how bad it's gotten had an impact on some people's perception of the game and will convince some people not to get their friends into destiny and a few to walk away. Will it sink the game over night? Of course not, but if that sentiment builds up and the numbers from Bungie suddenly don't make sense anymore they will be forced to change or cave. You know what's not going to make the situation better? Excuses and telling people that even though it sucks they can't do anything so better just get used to it. This video accomplishes nothing other than covering for Bungie.
17:21 - 20:08
Honestly, this is just such a wet-sock take for me. I understand that it's silly to imply that these practices don't work or are exclusive to bungie is silly, and it's perfectly fair to point out that the reason we're even having this conversation is because *clearly* their pricing works for enough people. But acknowledging that "yes, this is the issue, so what" misses the forest for the trees, I feel. Not EVERY company uses the same level of aggressive MTX pricing, some are much better than Bungie, and some are much worse. The point is not to try and compare to see who's doing it worst or best, the point is to try and hold Bungie accountable for deliberately choosing to do this, and if your only response to that is "lmao the world is just like that now, sucks to suck, I guess enough people don't agree with you", all that does is work against any potential dialogue with Bungie.
Why would you root for Bungie to be able to get away with this and not listen? Why would you be so damned apathetic?
30:55 There's a big difference between "caring" about the game and "keeping it profitable/milking it as hard as possible"
Yeah, they wouldn't be adding new subclasses, updating old strikes, adding more content than previously etc. if they didn't care and TFS was their out.
@@TheCubby1985that's milking it.
@@TheCubby1985to clarify, are you being sarcastic and implying bungie do still care about D2, or are you being serious and saying these are all just a means to a very milky end?
@@ScumDogMF if doing anything with the game is milking it then you have to tell us what is caring about the game
@@TheCubby1985 I'm not saying they're not adding any good content. GotD is very good, recent QoL updates have been nice. But we gotta remember here that this is a **$100 per year** game (even more if you buy things separately). No matter how you twist it, it simply does not feel right to be nickel and dimed, more and more stuff getting put in Eververse AFTER already paying $100. Add onto that the mostly very stale copy-paste seasons we had the last 2 years and **absolute** neglect of PvP and, no, Bungie does not truly care about the players having a good experience.
On the pay to win bit, just cause there is jo overlapp doesnt mean it isnt pay to win,it is by definition a pay to win system.
My only real complaint is having to buy the dungeons separte from the expansions, that really needs to be rolled into a one price deal, atleast for me and the people I play with all agree on
If only there was a specific expansion bundle you could buy that had everything for the year included in it. That would be sweet
@@underscore_5450 You used to be able to buy the expansion alone and get the dungeons on top regardless, so yes having to buy the deluxe edition is still a price increase for anyone interested
@@underscore_5450 oh yeah the bundle that doesn't actually save you any money it just saves you a click from buying two different things (that used to be one thing for a cheaper price) you can pay the same amount of money for those two things at once.
@@Wzuixoyou would get one dungeon, not two
why do that when you can milk dumb kids for even more money?
making prophecy free wasnt there mistake. charging extra for dungeons that _should_ be included with the season drop was the problem. trying to gaslight you into thinking it should be the other way around is asinine and will not change my position on the matter.
the white collars had a meeting and figured out they can just charge extra for dungeons. it was green lit and here we are.
it's just a choice on their end and die hard fans buy into it without the faintest doubt.
I like these videos. I think the reason Destiny gets in such huge ruts is because more prominent CCs & Streamers that have a voice & platform. Even if Bungie isn't really listening. Having zero push back allows them to run the ball further down the field without resistance.
The only resistance that works is people stop paying. The streamers are constantly complaining about monetization. You gotta accept the fact that people just want to play the game and not join a revolt
Stop paying then ig. And then watch the game get shutdown cause they don’t have any means of producing updates. And can’t use the “back then” argument. Those times they never post launch updated a game. They just started making a new one. But so many people want to be able to continue playing their favorite game, so as a company u get stuck trying to find ways to make money to pay ur employees to constantly work the game and keep the servers running. This has been a thing with MMOs. IMO mtx is disgusting when your game doesn’t have expansions or content updates and is just a PvP game, cause they aren’t putting in any substance 90% of the time
@@TheAcidicMolotov as the video stated: you actually cannit play Destiny 2 without being hoarded by Monetization. The in-game store pushes you to spend money even if you havnt spent any money on the store. Bungie did this intentionally. Im not a Destiny player but even I watched the whole 2 hour total video
@@Vanished584 you can be hoarded by monetization, but not forced to buy. YOu have self control and control youre own money. If you cant handle not paying for things then we should reconsider how we spend our money
@@TheAcidicMolotov We know people cant control themselves. If you can save time to buy things off the store then people will do it. And those who wont use the in-game store just quit the game anyway becuase their time Is being wasted
Did people skip the intro or something? He’s just explaining WHY things are the way they are; not why they’re good or justified 2:30
The only problem I have with the eververse store is that finishers are never available for bright dust.
There’s quite a few items that never go on sale for BD
I think they were available once in s9 for something like 3250 bright dust.
28:48 Anyone who took that this way is smokin all the drugs. I took it as you basically predicting the future and the scary reality of just how extremely close we are to that in D2.
Seriously, this take is 100% internet trolls. For the rest of us real people, it was clear that he was praising Datto's foresight.
Things can be taken a way and be just as valid until the way it was supposed to be taken comes out
When datto acted out confronting Aztec got me laughing my ass off so much
I was hoping for an Aztecross impersonation from Datto
i cringed and muted the vid. 30+ year old man acting like that infront of a camera, some problem there for sure. yes its an act but like i said cringe.
@@xNSHD your name is cringe you can't talk.
Josh Strife Hayes has an excellent series called "Worst MMO Ever?" in which he plays many terrible, predatory games and goes over exactly _why_ their monetization is predatory. Seeing those kinds of tactics invade Destiny 2 has my enthusiasm for the game at an all-time low, and I am currently not even considering playing during Final Shape.
JSH might be one oglf the greatest content creators of all time.
Josh is great, I wish he makes a video about Destiny one game
Wow, it’s all cosmetics get a grip
@@A_Cool_Tunafishyea, I don't get what people are on about about "predatory".
These micros aren't pay2win items. They are purely cosmetic and don't give adventages or disadventages, they just give you drip.
People talking about p2w mmo should go play lost ark and tell me how that goes
what i feel is that duneons should be apart of the expansion with now no real new strikes or pvp maps because we get old battle grounds from past seasons in the new vanguard playlist, also the incredibly mature of you part is very funny and glad to know there is no dumb pointless beef when everyone really should be mad/disapointed etc at bungie (the company, not the devs)
Dungeons take time and money, even datto says this
@@TheAcidicMolotov forsaken had more and better content for 60 bucks less then lightfall and they still made a sht ton of profits
@@darthvader9173 better is subjective, and how was forsaken $60 bucks less? Lightfall was $50, bungie gave you $10?
@@darthvader9173keep bringing up the content that had 2 codeveloping studios and was made on blizz's money, it will surely do wonders to your argument
@@kappegaf that was the case we would at least get half of what we got in TTK and Forsaken. Instead we got 1 crucible map in the last 4 years when we use to get 6-11 per year expansion. We get 0 meaningful updates to gambit. We get 2 strikes per year with the rest being rehashed seasonal content. We use to get 4-6 brand new strikes. Destiny 2 still has no strike specific loot.
The quantity of content has gotten tremendously low. And the game has been on a decline since shadow keep.
I’d like to just comment on your thoughts pertaining to the season pass and the dollars to loot ratio. For starters, I’ll preface be saying that I don’t care about the price tag, I’ll agree that forcing players to buy excess silver based on available silver bundles is underhanded tactics and the season pass should be a direct purchase option for sure. As far as the value portion of that segment, while there are some great items in the season pass track, I think what you are forgetting to mention is the time investment that also comes with the price tag. Leveling the season pass is incredibly time consuming and requires a large amount of dedication. Every bit of free time must be used to ensure you get the most out of the season. This also includes the seasonal activities and the grueling process of farming for red borders and godrolls. Also keeping in mind how the new season is fresh and exciting for about a week and then inevitably becomes a chore. It has clearly started sooner than expected this season because I know I’m not the only one who has experienced players leaving Deep Dives immediately after match making. Keep in mind that I am only referring to one character as I pretty much only play my Titan but I can’t even begin to imagine the time invest for someone who chooses to complete all seasonal content on 3 characters. That being the case, I would argue that Bungie gets a far better deal than the community when you factor price/loot/time. Not to mention the fact that they are reinserting sunset weaponry and reskinned the very same weapons right in front of us lol. I don’t usually comment on the Bungie hate because it’s a corporation and I’m a simple gamer but the total lack of respect for the crucible has definitely got under my skin.
I need a Byf reaction to Datto’s reaction to Aztecross’s reaction to monetization and the lore associated with it
A lore breakdown on how peoples money filling Bungie’s pockets changes our characters looks in the game world
I feel like the annual pass as an impact on this. All the annual pass purchases usually bump up their $$$ numbers for that quarter. That means less individual season purchases. This creates a graph that shows a decrease in profits when you look at and compare quarter earnings. So the executives push for more monetization and such to make those numbers look higher.
That's a very interesting take and I feel like it's very likely that this is the case
The inclusion of dungeons on the annual pass also probably leads to the overall mid seasons we've gotten
Since people pay upfront for the dungeons to not have to pay extra in piece meal, bungo is safe to drop some bad seasons since they are already paid for
Literally every other popular mmo has u pay for expansions as well as dungeons separately and even possibly a subscription. A lot of gamers should go back to playing single player games if they want a buy once experience. A lot of games now at days are semi mmo and take a lot of money to upkeep, end of story.
@@theguardianwolf7206servers ARENT that expensive, stop your bs haha
@@DavidUtau umm who said it’s just servers dumbass. Let me think here the employees, the building costs, production costs, marketing costs, equipment costs, paying back investors with interest… bungie isn’t just slapping weekly updates out for free, and yes servers can cost a lot. Why do u think tech companies are so massive? They own the servers. The cheap servers u think of are small ass personal servers. Servers that have to functionally run hundreds of thousands of people are different story my guy
Datto missed the entire point of the dungeon conversation.
He absolutely did
I have to disagree with the dungeon free take. I don't think I ever heard a large noise about people expecting it to be free when they announced dungeons as part of the 30th anniversary or the dungeon pass key. People are annoyed right now because were paying more for the same content. Their not over delivering, Bungie is trying to give the same content for more money. I don't see this take as a hard truth but rewriting history to fit a narrative. Still a good video though and enjoy listening to your opinion on things.
Only difference is the insured cadence of having a Dungeon every other season.
Before, Dungeons were never promised and were attached to Expansions maybe. I never expected them to be free, but I did expect them to justify a slight increase in season cost, not a whole separate purchase.
I know someone that bought the 100 levels and they only did it for the ornament set. He didn’t even care about harmonizers. He farmed last wish for the new red borders
The thing about them 'only caring about Marathon' is that we KNEW they were working on a new title quite some time ago. We already knew it was in the works, and now we SEE this new game showing as a promo. We can then clearly associate the haphazard updates to Destiny 2 as a result of them moving off Destiny 2. Reskins on top of reskins, one strike per expansion, re-releases of their 'vaulted content'. Like I understand making a game is expensive, but its clear that their funding has nothing to do with the quality of content being released in Destiny 2.
Datto did pretty much what I expected, which is to minimize what Bungie is doing and make excuses for them.
Yep sad to see used to be the biggest fighter for players
100% this.
He was 💋 bungies ass this whole video stop with these excuses they are in the wrong and have been for a good while now that's why I stopped playing
Destiny videos used to be a passion for Datto. I been watching him since before Destiny 1 and now he's just a Bungie kiss ass and scared to criticize them too hard. This isn't a passion for him anymore. It's strictly just a business. Criticize Bungie too hard and no more invites to their studio which would be bad for his business.
@@Xxanderbeau That makes sense. That's why I appreciated Aztecross not holding back on his criticism of Destiny.
I love dungeons, but my issue with dungeons is that I shouldn’t have to buy a season, as well as the new dungeon. The dungeon should come along WITH the expansion. I know that it’s expensive to release a dungeon. But, for new players, they are tricked into thinking that a new dungeon is coming when they buy the pass, just to have to go buy another item because they don’t clearly state that you have to buy the dungeon pass on top of the season. On those new seasons. They should just bump the price up a bit instead of making you go through 2 separate transactions
They now do 2 dungeons, not one
I think dungeons could be included in the seasons. But it would mean each season goes up in price too.
"They know more than you!!" Said Bud Light
Two main take aways if you don’t care for Bungie’s business practices: Bungie isn’t listening to your feedback on socials & Bnet. They are only paying attention to their profits. Stop buying silver!! Vote with your wallet. Have some self control over your addiction.
New player in lightfall, easy to see all these systems kinda wrecking the game. Been tempted by a few sick weapon skins but have resisted
This. That's all that matters.
I stopped playing seasons ago, would be nice to comeback but too much monetization and fomo for me
@@soulward6334 good job. I’ve been playing for 8.5 (uninstalled with LF). Even I’ve feel victim to the mentality “Oh well. It isn’t going away, so why not buy some silver and get some cool cosmetics.” Everytime I rethink about it I feel like a chump.
You see, deepsight harminizors wouldn't be a problem if we didn't need more then 1 weapon pattern to craft a weapon
An issue of semantics is not inherently unimportant.
The word for what free-play Destiny is already exists. It's a demo.
The phrase "free to play" has a definite meaning, and the semantics are important here. Specifically, I have access to the entirety of Fortnight. For free. The money is all about looking cool.
Calling free Destiny free-to-play is just incorrect. It's not a matter of opinion, and so the semantic discussion is highly relevant.
Reacting to a video that has yourself in it for a small bit is prime content
I cannot stand the "other companies do it so its fine." excuse... holy moly
Yeah, if this is normal. Then the new normal sucks.
Yeah it’s just an easy way to say “I’m not gonna question it”
@@aaronsdaboss whenever some shill tries to justify these shady business practices, the bar is lowered the more people agree with said shill.
it's people like those who allowed this to get so out of hand. people forget we have the power to make a difference. but most are comfortable spending their whole check on in-game content.
For fucking real
Blame Capitalism, not Datto
Outsider perspective: If you have to pay for an expansion and then pay individually for each dungeon of said expansion you are being scammed boys. That is predatory and deranged. I always wanted to try Destiny 2 in some Steam sale but the sheer amount of paying to access content to pay more for crafting materials to pay more for emotes skins and weapons. It is incredibly off-putting, expensive and convoluted for anybody that is even remotely considering trying this game. D2 genuinely seems like a gigantic flashy store that coincidentally has a game running on the background you can access from time to time between useless purchases.
i really do appreciate a lot of the big destiny content creators are speaking up on these topics, and to have these reactions is great to atleast have these conversations because you guys are people that have a platform to bring attention to them. Thank you Datto
@@justsomeguy2142 I agree with this 1000%
@@justsomeguy2142honestly GJ was 100% honest and unfiltered. Cross was similar (a bit more polite and a bit too lenient), and then Datto is pretty much always absolving bungie of responsibility. I do 100% agree with this though. Content creators are in a weird spot that they can take advantage of both the community and bungie, and still make money from both.
@@Alex-ug9wx "Datto is pretty much always absolving bungie of responsibility." He definitely isn't though. He's just explaining their possible reasoning and incentive (money obv) but isn't saying that he supports most of what he had to explain. That's what the a lot of the intro was about. He's also explained multiple times how apathetic he mostly is to microtransactions because he knows that Bungie will never change course.
@@justsomeguy2142 could not have said it better myself. I’m definitely going to unsubscribe (not like he’ll miss a single person) because I cannot be bothered to hear the constant “players have no clue what they’re talking about” or “you aren’t qualified to be upset about a game that has more downtime than uptime”, etc, etc. and when it isn’t from him it’s from the people in the comments. I’m sick and tired of all the shit from bungie being swept under the carpet because us players “just don’t get how hard it is to develop a game”.
For example in this video, datto claims himself and the players criticising bungie “have no idea what the cost of creating content or employing staff to do so actually is, so the dungeons being a separate and higher price increase is justified”. If you seriously don’t think it’s to fatten their pockets and be used for vanity projects and games they care about more than destiny, than you’re either naive or plain stupid. But that’s the destiny player base for you, ALWAYS looking for an excuse for bungie.
I’m so fucking glad the community is waking up, and many will never touch another bungie IP (myself included).
@@justsomeguy2142 For that dungeons section, I'm not sure I entirely agree with the first "hard truth" that he talks about, but I feel like the second is a given. Bungie absolutely only does things when there's a money incentive for them. He explains that a bit better in the EV/Marketing section. Bungie only do what they do because they know for a fact that they'll get more profit from it. That's absolutely the real reason that PvP is neglected too. It makes them next to nothing compared to PvE. Literally almost every company does the exact same thing. That's also why Datto is so obviously apathetic because pretty much every company is like this, and he knows that they'll never change where their revenue is involved. It's also why I've stopped caring because I know they'll never change (like so many others). It's just the state of the gaming industry now. I'm really just here to see the end of the story while only logging in once every 1-2 weeks now.
Again, I do not think Datto is necessarily defending or justifying Bungie's actions. He just knows some things can't be changed, so why even try? He probably is this jaded about it because he most likely went through the same general process when World of Warcraft first added micro transactions (they triple dip btw). He also isn't really saying that people are wrong to think the way they do about micro transactions. He's saying that 'it is what it is' and that there's almost no point to fighting it because despite everything there's always more people (the actual target audience for micro transactions) buying anyway.
Side note: I wrote this directly after waking up, so please excuse any typos, repeating, and/or bad wording on my part. Also, yes, I am a fan (definitely not a stan as that would be weird and cringe) because I like his humor and respect his opinions on the state of the game (but it's really because of his builds, guides, and damage testing).
I dont know how much good faith you give bungie. You didnt opt for open criticism in this video, but that is, of course, your choice. As for myself, and I think a large part of the community, we do not. Bungie has not always been trust worthy and they have not always put their best foot forward. I think a lot of people see them as another big corporate gaming giant with some pretty lousy customer service
Really happy that you and Cross don't have beef. Love watching you both
18:33 is my thoughts on literally everything right now lmao. People buying graphics cards, new cars, micro transactions, literally everything, it's kind of frustrating how everything else is mad expensive because 90% of kids are still living with their parents because housing is crazy expensive (myself included) and have money banked to just buy WAAAAY overpriced things and "don't care about the cost"....that is why 3 Call of Duty skins costs the price of the entire game itself...........
Datto "if they start putting non cosmetics in microtransactions imma have something to say".
Bungie adds them....
Datto "i have nothing to say"
Did you not watch his video?
@@lemontonkyep, and he excuses Bungle at every turn, blaming us for their predatory practices.
@@iamburkocan you make examples of what you see as excuses at every turn? i think the portion with the EV makes a lot of sense and the whole playerbase does not share the same opinion anyway
@@BRAY_v implying that dungeon price hikes are justified because we “have no clue how much time and money goes into designing them”… so somehow that justifies a ginormous price increase.
It gives off the same vibes as “game developing is hard, so you shouldn’t be demanding your money back because the servers are broken 4 hours every day”.
Servers were down 3 times in 24 hours the other week. Each time over an hour. MATCHMAKING didn’t work. The most integral part of this game was BROKEN for over an hour. This is NOT acceptable.
Can you imagine if GTAO’s menu suddenly didn’t let players load into the game? I imagine rockstar would be in a shitstorm they would probably not recover from for at least a few weeks.
With bungie though? The players EXPECT it and EXCUSE it. You don’t find this level of quality for THIS much money anywhere in the gaming world, and that is a fact.
“Online multiplayer games used to ask if I cared to spend a few bucks while I played. Now they ask me if I care to play a few games while I spend money. In the end a good game with bad monetization is a bad game.”
One thing that neither you nor Cross mention is how some eververse ornaments actually change the functionality of some weapons for the better. I'm not sure it is pay to win, but I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned.
hawkmoon ornament legit way better scope n feel of the gun
@@justsomeguy2142 cc?
@@justsomeguy2142 as soon as i sent that i figured it out on my own lol but thanks for quick response
@@justsomeguy2142 but youre absolutely correct to me only very few, dont give a shit an tell it how it is andd maybe Cross it the biggest CC that does? I felt like this vid by Datto was super cope imo
@@justsomeguy2142 Im not a fan of his either so i rarely watch a vid ever, only watched this to see howd he come up with somehow not agreeing essentially HIMSELF and i wasnt disappointed
but it still surprises me how fkn strong his fanbase loves him i legit dont get it...
Much like Datto, I've been playing games long enough to have watched gaming introduce DLC, Lootboxes, microtransactions, banning lootboxes etc... The "hate" for some of them (microtransactions mostly) has been constantly strong and definitely heard from EVERY game company that has them. And yet, here we are.
The sad thing is, companies have spent MILLIONS+ researching this stuff and annalizing the statistics. What they have clearly figured out is, no matter how many people publicly hate it, there are many more people that are silent that will go along with it.
I have very little reason to believe Bungie is going to go against this standard or "limit" that has been determined by these studies for a few reasons.
One is Destiny 2 is the only game they have out that is likely capable of paying their bills. I doubt D1 is making much money at this point and their original titles are so old they are not even able to be bought if I'm correct.
Another is, that would now cause tension for Sony since they just bought them. People keep thinking "Oh, Sony bought them so now they are not strapped for $ anymore and can be less greedy." That is not how that works, instead, Sony will be expecting Bungie to make as much or even more money as they were when they bought them so Bungie can keep its value if they want to sell it and or so they know if they can trust Bungie to make a game for them that will make money. If they fail this, Sony could just dump them and even sell them to someone like EA.
Do I like microtransactions? HELL NO. I never have. But I'm with Datto on the fact it's a pointless fight at this point. And truthfully, just not paying for the microtransactions is not and never has been enough. The only option to stop it is for everyone to stop playing the game. But that isn't going to happen. So all I can say is, after FinalShape happens, I'm done with the franchise. I've stuck around since D1's launch so I'll at least finish the light v dark saga. Then, I'm done with Bungie.
You should just stop gaming if you don’t wanna support a company that has micros in games. Like you said it’s here to stay and more will follow. Don’t want to buy something? THEN DONT!!!!!!! Its that simple people.
@FalconStkr1 it's not as easy as that. it's a hobby. can we not feel that the hobby is greedily monetized yet still participate in it?
@@FalconStkr1What is this only Triple-A games exist now? lol Plenty of millions of hours of indie games to play that only require the one purchase and you got the full thing.
It’s really only the most expensive games from the biggest companies that do this sort of stuff. Right or wrong that’s just how it is! So I say jump into the smaller game scene if you don’t want to support or interact with these kinds of practices. They deserve your attention as well~
@@FalconStkr1omg did you at least read everything before saying that?
@@FalconStkr1there are many titles to chose from that don't have microtransactions. Youre take sounds emotionaly tilted.
People really thought the bit of Cross hovering over all the things Datto prophesized was an attack on Datto??? I just took it as Cross almost paying respect to Datto (may not be the right phrase) for his Prophecy of the worst timeline we have found ourselves in. Like "Datto warned us, and it has Come to Pass." Either way though, glad Datto and Cross cleared it up with little to no Malfeasance (Hopefully not too big of a reach with The Last Word there.).
I’m in shock people are that stupid
That’s how bungie shills think, a attack on the game is a attack on them because their life is basically destiny, they spend more time and money on the game then any girlfriend or loved one, they are just in denial mode and can’t accept the state of the game and all that time and money leading up to something like lightfall
One thing about the dungeons you got wrong imo is the fact that before dungeons were linked to the big dlc drop like pit of heresy being tied to the shadowkeep I mean if you bought the shadowkeep automatically you got the pit of heresy aswell even without the annual w/e thing but rn if you want to enjoy the dungeon but havent bought the annual pass ultra turbo deluxe edition of lightfall you need to spend extra for the dungeon and that pulled the trigger for many people out there.
Exactly. And it's not like we are asking for dungeons to be free(although that would be very nice), we are simply asking that the dungeons be included with the standard expansion purchase instead of making us buy a separate dungeon key.
@@rithvikmuthyalapati9754 But then they can't rip off people by selling 1 dungeon for $20. It's entirely community driven phenomena - this would never work in a game populated by 15-18 year-olds. In Destiny 2 it works because Frank comes home from work on Friday & pays that $20 dollars without giving a single F.
Man. Wish I saw this mythical Datto who really cared about the game that my buddy's who got me into destiny 2 always talked about. I have yet to see this "Angry Datto" or even a bit more emotion than a millennial who just gave up on everything. Destiny needs some new, energetic creators. Old guard needs to retire. "Battle was lost a while ago" is what the stereotypical old general who quit says.
Hes just coasting at this point, so he’ll just defend the game that keeps his food on the table until the bitter end
@@mantistoboggan5650yup, it's a damn shame too.
💯
Btw love the off the cuff styled vids, tbh ur commentary is legendary
As far as Warframe is concerned you can get everything free but you have to grind a lot and wait just as long.
No you can't. Community made and prime cosmetics cost real money.
@@notthefox Well,... The word P2W Barely work in Warframe
This is a sad sad video. This is a man whose moved his goal posts and doesn’t have true principles. Bungie has done everything he said he’d be mad about and yet he’s here still making excuses for them.
Also talking out both sides of his mouth. In one sentence he makes fun of people who say “vote with your wallet” and then later in the video he affirms how much authority the spenders have. So I’m confused on how much power he actually lends to voting with your wallet.
This is what addiction looks like folks. Datto is either addicted to destiny or he is adjusting his stance because he doesn’t feel creating content for a new game will make him as much money as he’s currently making. If it’s the latter that’s still a form of addiction known as greed.
And even though he made fun of this concept he was right: if you don’t like microtransactions then quit buying them.
Covering Destiny is his job. And with most people who work with a job they hate. They dont do it because they want to, they do it because they must. Atleast until something better comes along....
Datto, id be careful with your dungeon argument. I dont know a single person saying they should be free, and moreso, i havent heard ANYTHING about prophecy being used as an example. Hell, i forgot prophecy was free. This is not the argument ANYONE has.
Its the fact that theyre not in the dlc anymore, which the dlcs have already been increasing in price while arguably decreasing in content. Theyre double dipping, and that is why everyone is upset.
My biggest question is how on earth do they think the event card is valued the same as an entire season pass? The season pass gives you 2/3x the amount of items for the same price, it's 200 more now, but my point still stands.
How did we go from the Battlefront II controversy to this level of corporate shilling.
New RUclipsr meta - reacting to reaction videos. It also has an infinite loop if you keep going, one of the best farms on the platform.
Oh how the mighty have fallen. Time to move on to new and better streamers.
I appreciate you continually telling me what my opinion is on things. Thanks, bro 🎉
I’m really appreciating him saying we’re dumb and Bungie is smart.
Last I checked, the customer is right. I know what I want, fuck this “You think you want that, but you don’t.” Bullshit.
@@alsoniagaming I don't know what you're referencing.
@@alzyllahe’s talking about how many people actually and legitimately take dattos opinion as their own.
People constantly quote him whenever they see someone criticising the game
@@JPOG7TV my bad. I more so meant to imply we must've watched different videos as we had different takeaways.
He's saying we collectively are stupid for thinking we know more sales data than Bungie on who is purchasing their content and at what price. As soon as he said that, I knew someone would prove him right and not understand what he is saying.
The market value of cosmetics? You mean a digital piece of data that has no value at all and scales infinitely for developers? This type of thinking is how why developers get away with it. "Everyrhing is worth $40 if i bought them individually, so $10 is a good deal." Wake up people.
why would you paraphrase someones definition? wouldnt you want to be exact? I dont get this "i refuse to use clips from the video! NAWRH!"
@29:46 I watched Aztec's vid and it's hard to fathom (at least for me) that the point was misconstrued. Even more so that somehow you're catching undeserved blame. You were just being realistic about Destiny 2's future possibilities.
Datto I'm always just glad to get vids from you and Aztecross. My fav Titans. 😎👍
Can't believe I just watched a 30 minute video of Datto being wrong. There is no point in defending bungie. We've seen peak bungie and saying that anything Aztecross was incorrect or unjustified is ridiculous, and Bungie is going to look up to you as a part of the people defending them. They are objectively making the game worse, and they will be using your video to defend themselves in the future. Destiny was simply better under Activision and ironically had more love behind it. Now? It's a dumpster fire in decline and it has been since the content vault. I'm happy to elaborate on any disagreements, but int the interest of not wasting my time in case nobody reads this at all, I will refrain from elaborating now and instead make a summary.
F2P: The game truly is a free trial in F2P, no defense for that. Saying it is F2P is a scam and malpractice in business. Warframe and Fortnite did it better. Bungie opting to F2P later does not make them exempt from this criticism
Paying for content: Here we mostly agree. Although again, Bungie is being very predatory and there is no defense.
Dungeon and Season pass: Dungeons should be in seasons, otherwise, neither the season nor the dungeon pass would be worth their price. Overdelivering was never a thing in a game that is anorexic content-wise. Period. Also, no one buys the season for the cosmetic, we buy it to stop going back to the free trial-state we would be in by not being able to do anything in the game again. The season pass cosmetics are just bloat to increase the value of the season so they can suck more money - which like fools, we all fell victim to. Also, quick reminder, Destiny one never had any of these issues and was still a fire game to the end. Also, the free April update was a thing.
Holiday events: We are celebrating as a community on a game we love. For them to profit more than just through the store is simply unjust. Bright fust cost should be required so you could buy every event each year for your main without sacrificing a certain event's cosmetic, even as F2P. Also, they have been releasing less content for events, and that is bad - not "streamline".
P2W: Resources in pass are bad. Just give cosmetics. Also, pre-order weapons bad. Enough said. No valid counter-point can be given here without being wrong, but feel free to try.
2 Adults: You overreacted and were reaching for points that weren't there. How you thought people were blaming you and not shitting on bungie is beyond me, but maybe, knowing the internet, you did get people idiotic enough to blame you. Truth is, that is not what Aztecross meant, and if you were angry about people mentioning you and saying stupid shit, be angry at them, not Aztecross.
Funding Marathon: Bungie abandoned Destiny and is giving us only what we need to not start a boycott twards their company so they can continue paying for their next game. Don't be fooled into thinking anything else.
That's about it. I'm tired so anyone feel free to comment and I'll respond when I have energy again. I love this channel and wish the best for Datto, but bad takes have to be called out no matter who they're from.
Datto's channel: like Cheers for fanboys with a bartender whose spine is made of warm butter, and serves up corporate damage control on tap.
Datto really missed alot of the points of aztecross video to make bungie look better lmao didnt sit through this video to hear datto do eververse pr for bungo
Ah man, you’re really speaking favorably on the “don’t overdeliver” comment? That’s embarrassing.
They’re not over delivering. Not even close. The entire idea that these pieces of content all need to be piecemealed and sold at premiums so the company can make a profit is laughable. The company is rolling in it.
i mean hes correct, from both a financial and dev standpoint, it makes sense to not overdeliver. does it mean its a good thing, no but from a companys perspective it makes complete sense
@@paramveersingh3666 again, they’re not even coming close to over delivering, so this rhetoric is in fact totally nonsensical. This shit is the type of weaponized incompetence shitty dudes lean on to make their girlfriends do everything around the house while they sit on their ass playing games - probably this shitty game.
It goes without saying that a companies financial interests are best served by doing the least and charging the most if they can get away with it. What works best for the company should never be the primary concern of the consumer, and consumers need to wise up that if a company is outright telling you that their priorities aren’t the consumer interest, consumers, advocates, and commentators, really should be seizing on and disparaging that, not rationalizing it. Don’t ever empathize with a corporation.
Datto's monologue said a word. He actually said it 2 years ago. Bungie Will keep making Microtransactions as long as people continue to buy them.
This felt like a destiny defense video. Everything was like “yaaasss that’s kind of true butttttt” 🤦🏼♂️😂 For sure a step in the wrong direction. They need to change a lot.
Datto is a well known bungie bootlicker, he has a lot of connections their too and I’m guessing money is involved
Sad that red war is not playable anymore. It was a great starting point for new light, me included, with a great story to get into the game. Sunsetting all the story and good old content was a big mistake from bungie. The new new light experience and overwhelming number of quest after u get to the tower is stunning. I know a lot people that try d2 and quit after they saw all the necessary purchase to play more then the boring core activities and a lot of my friends quit the game after relaese from beyond light. I'm a solo player now ._. its just to much money ever year/season for them to spend on a game just to play new things.
Fr. Bungie should never have removed Red War. Such an amazing story and fun experience and the entire plot line of Destiny 2 starts upon that. It was the beginning and they removed it
two of the starting quests are dungeon completions lol, like chill bungie. i didn't know what a kinetic weapon vs a special weapon was when i picked up both those quests