EVE 280Ah 3.2V LiFePO4 Prismatic Batteries, Review and Testing
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- Опубликовано: 21 июл 2024
- Today we'll be taking a look at the EVE 280Ah LiFePO4 prismatic batteries purchased from Dongguan Lightning New Energy Technology (Alibaba). I ordered 4 batteries to create one big 12V battery. This is the first time I'm diving in to these style batteries and still have a lot to learn. Will they stand up to the rated capacity? Watch and see!
WARNING: Lithium batteries are dangerous and can result in fire! This video is NOT intended to be instructional or a "how-to" lesson. I am not a professional. Do not attempt anything you see here without first contacting a certified and/or licensed professional.
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First, THANK YOU VERY MUCH for taking the time, spending the money & doing all of the 'heavy lifting' of testing these cells (that I was sooo excited about!) I'm more than a little disappointed that the cells varied by so much? Clearly, 2 cells came from a single batch, and the other (2) came from another. They varied enough that I wondered if 2 of the cells were from say 'version A' and the other 2 came from a more recent & improved lot. That being said:
* I probably would've used a lower gauge wire to reduce losses (say 6 AWG or even a 4 AWG)?
* I may've tried to do a .2C test, but- really I'm being a nitpicker, and, the wiring mentioned above would've been less of an issue, but...
* I thought each cell was limited to 2.5v, so I was surprised to see 2.2v as the bottom? Asking?
* Would it have helped to parallel the cells for a day or so- for the BMS & preventing the need for a bottom balance?
* Do you think it might've performed slightly better (275 -280AH) if you had bottom balanced?
Great test, great review & THANK YOU 1,000 times!!! I genuinely appreciate your efforts. Noted: another gentleman purchased 16 cells for a garage solar power project and he only was able to get @ 250AH or so. Perhaps they are slightly less powerful and they DO have limitations (none that will disturb me using them..) But, they still have a TON of stored power & the chemistry lasts for so many cycles!!!
Dave
Its the role of the BMS to handle balancing for you.
Having the cells connected to a bms for a day should give you the same result as connecting them parallel - they should get balanced.
And a BMS is safer since it wil reduce/regulate the balancing current.
* Thanks!! :)
* The read/black cables coming off the battery were 4 AWG. The black cable from the shunt to the inverter was 1/0 AWG as I already had a piece with ring terminals crimped on.
* One thing I find interesting about the prismatic LiFePO4 batteries I've looked at is the capacity is usually given at a 1C discharge. I find that hard to believe, but I haven't tried a 1C test to see what happens. With this in mind, I think a 0.28C test is close enough to 0.2C commonly used by NMC chemistries. Lower amps may have resulted in another Ah or two, not sure.
* The spec sheet for these batteries gave 2.5V as the low cutoff. The BMS was set for 2.2V. I can't change it for this particular BMS and wanted to leave it go to see what would happen (if the BMS would shut off). The voltage drop at that point in the discharge curve is so steep that the extra between 2.228V and 2.50V didn't make much of a difference.
* Yes! I do think paralleling beforehand would have helped. I will be testing this later this week to see if there is any difference. I will report back my findings. I don't think the iCharger balanced long enough even though I had it set to "slow balance".
@@LithiumSolar I hope that you understand that I'm NOT questioning you in a 'snarky' way, I'm really trying to learn more (and, I'm more of a NOOB!) while being 'clear' instead of loose. Thanks (again!!!) for buying & testing these- I so appreciate all of your efforts! I was planning on using (2) Bluetooth programmable BMS' recommended by Will Prowse & paralleling them on arrival, discharging to a lower state of charge, balancing- charge & do a .2C rate test. .28C is so darn close- it thought it was higher (my bad!) Either way, 271AH is purdy darn close & still an exceptional value. I DO wish you had received 'matched' cells by lot as well as charge profile & resistance but at that price- it may be too much to ask! Hahaha
@@hubertnnn I think that Daly BMS' only charge at the very top of the charge cycle, and, often needs several charge cycles to balance the cells. When installed, the cell voltage variance was too large for it to even work. The resistors are pretty small on most BMS' that I've ever seen. With such a flat discharge curve, the amount of voltage in each cell can be pretty large -especially in 280AH prismatic cells!
@@DCGULL01 being snarky didn't even cross my mind... Out of all the comments, yours was the one I pinned lol. I am not an expert and am here to learn too. One reason I make these videos is I love reading through the comments, ideas, hearing what others are doing, etc. I do agree, 271Ah is still fantastic - I guess I just expected to see the full 280Ah after what I've been reading from others. I'll be ordering my next batch from Basen (seems to be who most are recommending) and getting 16 at once. Hopefully those will be matched. I love the Daly BMS for small builds and testing, but I'll be using a Batrium on my final production setup :)
Wow! a most excellent video. Great production. Lighting, audio quality, and your narration. Just easy to watch, and appreciate your thoroughness. Going to watch more of your channel. Thank you!
I've watched a few of these for the 280 ah and most get the 280 or close with all the wiring and such 271 seems close enough for me. You do great work thanks.
The bms cuts out at 2.28v so he didnt pull the max ah from the batteries
Dude, fantastic test ! Yes in the industry we're using automatic expensive equipment to cycle cells for test, but the test seriously boils down to what you have done - GREAT ! IF you are planing on using prismatic cells long term I would only suggest to provide a box that applies pressure to prevent cell swelling, but I think this is redundant since you seem to know what you are doing !
Man, great video. Your whole presentation was straightforward and no fluff. Keep up that great work.
Your video shows the value of a testing setup and spend time on balancing and discharge testing new batteries. Thank you
I love the way how you concetrate the right infos in your video and focus. Well done ! I wish every youtuber would do that. I am waiting for my cells coming from China in a few weeks and i gonna build myself a 24 200ah solar battery pack for my camping van. I am looking for how to test my cells the right way so i know what i got for my money.
I've been debating selling my 16s NMC pack and dropping $10k or so on a massive bank of these. I don't like that they don't even have the rated capacity out of the box though. Thanks for digging into them!
Find the good seller, based on reviews mostly... 16 batts should be around 1.5k!
@@domatic 15k vs 1.5k
I do believe the chap said the bms cuts out at 2.28V not 2.2v so how can you say the batteries are not at the rated capacity?
Thanks for the review. Such cells seem good and powerful, I even used them for welding directly. They have the or near the stated capacity. What we should research is their life-cycles. This is the only way to see if they are viable or not. You can find cells apparently with excellent specs that do even beyond the specs in initial tests but they quickly drop capacity after only a few full discharges. I've seen this in some cheap and apparently very good Li-Ion 26650s. I don't have the means to do an efficient cycle test on high capacity LiFePO4s. I doubt they get anywhere near the stated cycles.
Thanks for the video. At first, I thought it was going to turn out bad when they didn't quite match in terms of build. But the results aren't too bad. Definitely didn't scare me away from ordering some.
Thanks for the review. I just ordered 4 280Ah cells from an eBay seller for about $170/cell, so not as good of a deal as yours... I’m just hoping they are matched, new cells, as they were advertised! This makes such a nice, compact, high capacity battery. Even at what I paid, it will be cheaper per usable amp hour than purchasing AGM batteries (considering 80% DOD for the LiFePO4 and 50% for the AGM). Thanks again for the review/capacity test!
Another amazing video , detailed and clear . Thanks so much for your easy to follow vids . Love em ! Take care
Very comprehensive test , nice to follow with good explaining and commentary. Nice equipment also.
You got 97% of the rated capacity, and your breaker and negative cable were generating some heat. The 300 mV drop from the terminals to the shunt is also about 97% of the voltage, so the cells seem to be pretty close to 280Ah. And for that price, seems like you did well!
The losses in cables, breaker etc do not affect Ah-measurement. The shunt measures the current going through the circuit and it does not matter where the energy is dissipated, whether in the actual load or elsewhere.
@@mcg6762 Errm. No. I don't believe that is accurate. Any losses between the terminal and the shunt (which is where my comment clearly identified the 300mV loss) is dissipated as heat before it any measurment by the shunt. That 300mV X (the amps) equals power lost at any moment, and power lost over a period of time is lost energy. See the First Law of Thermodynamics--the Law of Conservation of Energy for more info.
@@daveduncan2748 Ah is different from Wh. The shunt measures current. All current must go through the shunt, regardless of where the voltage is dropped.
@@mcg6762 i think he is sating you would need a shunt at each separate hot device to catch what its individual loss is.
@@The2000redrocket If you have more than one shunt in the same series circuit they would all measure the same current. Basic circuit theory. The current is the same everywhere for a straight series circuit.
You're good man, doing this test. Thanks for the time, effort and info👍👍
I’m going to build this batt, you’re the 2nd vid I’ve seen about this & for the price, you can’t go wrong 👍👍
hey, two years later, are they good ? do you recommend that i buy ?
@@tariqalmutairi1403 actually, rack batteries are so cheap now I’d buy them so I have a warranty & a professional looking installation. I saw 48v 100ah rack batteries for $1150 recently.
Thanks so much for classroom technical data on these batteries. I currently have 2 200ah AGM batteries. They charge up great and fast (no complaints) I just have 70 (max) of only one battery for usage. I live full time in my van and after 1 year full time I’m ready 4 a change. I just can’t afford 2 Battleborn type lithium. Thanks 4 great post and channel. Look forward to more videos on this subject.
Not sure about your datasheet, but Off Grid Garage found that his 'manual' said to let the cells sit for an hour after charging before starting the test or something like that.
yes I heard 30 mins, so 1 hour is probably more correct
Love your precise, detailed presentation style.
Great video. Thanks for the specific information. Keep up the good work.
Can you run a charging test to see how well it balances without the balancer? Likely they should charge pretty evenly, mostly the BMS should not be needed?
At that price i would say close enough for the AH.
Agree!
Yup!
heck yeah
Good test. I wouldn’t be cut up about about 96.4% of the rated capacity since by your own admission there were heat losses (resistances) in your circuit that happen before the current shunt. Well done though and thanks for a good review.
That’s a small package for a lot of battery. 280 ah. Wow
Nice video. Thanks
Thanks for the video! I'm thinking about getting these. How do they do after a few cycles?
For real great info, thanks Ron Howard!
Very informative, thanks and happy new year
How can you see batrium info on a tablet i can figure it out how to do it?
Pretty good for the cost.. still not as Advertised!
Truth and honesty is the most important thing when selling a product!
Thanks
✌️PT
Great Job ! I’ve gotten 280Ah 3.2v Lithium Phosphate from AliExpress about 108.00 each and I asked if they were grade A or B and the seller wrote back Grade A being made as they were written ! I have not tested
Per the spec sheet from Eve, two are 2019 manufacture, and two are 2020 manufacturing date. Lower volume places frequently have stock sitting on the shelf a while, all of mine from a different vendor were manufactured in the same batch in the second half of 2020. Depending on the state of charge, sitting on the shelf for extended periods of time can lower capacity and lifespan. I suspect what you received was just two older cells, and everything passed all the manufacturing tests at the time, rather than grade b cells. I am sure they are not matched cells, which is different from grade a cells. It is actually quite difficult and time consuming to match cells, since the most commonly used measurement device for doing so clearly states it is not accurate above 100 amp hour cells.
This is great! Will Prowse also just posted a 280AH battery capacity test but his link to Alibaba was different and a tad more money ($443 VS $410).
Supplier is everything. Keep us posted
Great Job. Thanks for the details!
What is the cell balancing performance(or ability) of this bms? Wouldn't it be necessary to install an equalizer(Active balance)?
Great video. Out of curiosity how long does the heater last before battery is too low.
Thankyou
With a software BMS, can check all data easy. Good video and beautiful inverter
Thanks for sharing 👍
Can i ask some question sir, I have 3.2v 100ah connected in 4s, what should be the BMS rating (amps) I would use?
Love ur stuff keep it coming merry Xmas 🥳👍
Great information,thank you for sharing
Maybe cycling them a few times will help improve the performance?
even with what you got out of them still looks like a really good value
Thanks for the video
I've got a question. Wouldn't be better using M6 aluminium studs? Preserving the cell's threads.
Very helpful test, thanks!
Wow, glad I found your channel. Thanks for the video
What kind of longevity do you expect? Does the company claim an amount of cycles?
Sorry for I didn't catch how long the test was? would be good to know thanks,
Thanks for this Video! I want to built such one in 24V for my Truck, wich BMS You are used?. I'm unshure about the dimension? 100A or more? What do you think?
Didn't find anyone mention the numbers, but if you add in the line losses, you'll be closer than than 271ah mark. Still not crossing the 280ah barrier though. In future, if possible, for a testing rig, try shorter cables to reduce line losses?
I was wondering what is the reason for placing your circuit breaker on the negative side of the battery rather than on the positive side ?
Because I had a red cable with 2 lugs crimped on already and didn't want to cut it in half for the breaker. This was a test setup. It's best to use a double-pole breaker in DC battery installations.
Question for you. I have heard that if it was stored for a while then it needs to be cycled a couple times to pull full capacity. Does this seem to be true?
These cells do seem to settle down to more consistent results after a couple of higher rate charge and discharge cycles, but as someone already explained, they also need to be cycled every 6 months when stored. The QR codes indicate that two of the cells were manufactured before December of 2019, and likely sat on a shelf without being cycled.
thank you so much, I am planning to build a DIY power box using these 4 of these 280AH cell. Learning from your last video, i will need 4x280ah battery cells, 150A BMS, MPPT Charger, 2000 Pure sine inverter... how many fuses or breaker do i need for safety measure and where is best to put these fuses? Will i also need some kind of relay circuit device? what is the recommend wire sizes?
Learning a lot of good information thanks.
Thanks for the video. I'll be biking two of these for our rv. I'll upload a similar video when I'm doing it. Learning a lot about lifepo4.. Thanks.
Great breakdown ... one thing has me ... Building a powerwall is straight forward, I'd like to see an Automatic Transfer Switch for Grid to Battery power, I have a 200amp service, but the only ATS I can find seem to be 100amp, should I take the feed-in from the grid and split it one to a sub-panel powered by the ATS, separating out the circuits I want to power from Batteries?
Nice video. Thanks for creating this.
271 is quite close & good for first run. Your readings might possibly be off by 1 or 2 % anyway. Several cycles should increase the measurements.
also count the BMS and cable loss
Hi Lithiumsolar. Great video. You tested and discharged the batterypack with a heater drawing some 900watts. How long took it discharge the batteries?
Nice test and clean setup. Clearly resistance losses don't affect amp hour testing, they become part of the load and only reduce watt hours measured. The accuracy of the amp-hour measurement (including shunt, shunt voltage measurement and time accumulation accuracy) would need to be verified to validate the overall amp hour accuracy. These cells could be within spec and the result error (-2.9%) within instrumental accuracy. Batrium mentions 1% typical accuracy for the shunt component alone and "typical" isn't a worst case guaranteed spec, plus this must be added to the inaccuracy of the measurement subsystem. Not a bad result.
Awesome stuff! :) Thank YOU! :)
Great video. Thanks for sharing
Thanks!
This is like those "bargain" bags of apples where there is always exactly one in five that are bruised or mushy. They start with good and bad separate, then carefully mix a "tolerable" level of bad with the good. And hope the buyer believes it's randome.
look who dropped by ..
@@terryterry1655 Who? I'm confused...
@@LithiumSolar dude! The OP of this comment. Never heard of him ?
That is a lot of eneregy storage and charge cycles for the money! What I don't like is the 6mm lug screws and the few threads that actually thread into the aluminum lugs. I built a battery using 240 ah cells purchased directly from Shenzen RJ Energy. One of the lugs stripped out even though I am very careful when tightening, but I was able to tap a larger screw into it and salvage the cell. I built a custom insulated boz with a silicon pad heater in it so it stays warm in cold weather. I have used this battery in my RV for 2 years now and it has worked perfectly with 400 w of charging PV's on the roof. I have never run the battery out when boondocking for weeks on end in the summer and up to one week even in late October in NE Washingon. The 280 ah cells you have are about half the cost of the 240 ah's I bought in 2018. They are a great value if you are capable of building it yourself. I think the fragile lugs make it best for stationary installs like a remore solar cabin , and less desirable for vibration uses like an RV. I check my lugs all the time and so far so good, but I think its just weak for high vibration uses.
have you done a review of the smbs0?
I wonder if the resistance losses in the BMS, Breaker and Cabling could account for some or all of the AH capacity deficit of the test?
The voltage loss in the cabling/breakers would be reflected in the measured Wh on the display, but should not impact Ah since amps remain current throughout the entire circuit.
Great video, question: can I lay the cell side way? Will it leak or effect performance? I am building a power box and laying side way give me more room to play with , thanks
Lithium cells are not like lead acids you can place them any way and nothing will happen to them.
It's generally accepted that the prismatic batteries can be placed in any orientation other than upside down. You should consult the manufacturer's specifications though for the specific cell you have.
I'm wondering if the wiring losses might make up for some of the shortcomings of the capacity test. Any heat produced at the BMS, breaker and wires wouldn't be accounted for, unless I'm misunderstanding how your shunt is set up. I don't want to make excuses for the supplier sending you B grade cells, but something to consider.
I love you ❤️. This is what I was looking for. Thank you thank you.
Great video. getting ready to buy these cells. really great value now on Alibaba. $459 for 4 of these cells
So you were 10ah short but are you factoring in the losses through the cables and also the fact that the BMS may be losing some AH as it's balancing too? It doesn't seem that far out to me! The fact that 2 of the cells appear to be different is a bit suspect though - be interesting if you tested each cell to see if maybe those 2 suspect cells are dragging the for the pack as a whole.
Excellent video I have built my battery pack using your information thanks for posting such great content, I have made two 12 volt battery packs with 280amp hour cells with a Daly 250 amp Bms I was wondering if I can connect them in series to make a 24 volt battery I can’t seem to find any info on how to achieve this or if it is possible.
Hi, can you please tell us icharger x6 settings for balancing these 280Ah batteries thank you
Great video, i just had a question basically the BMS you are using have low voltage disconnect feature so if these batteries are connected to my solar system, and in the night i drain the batteries BMS will disconnect, so in the morning how will the Solar charger detect the battery and charge it?
Basically you want the load turned off before the BMS disconnects the battery. The Daly BMS doesn't have this feature, so you want to set the inverter disconnect high enough to turn itself off before the BMS. A lot of BMS have a signal you can use to trigger a relay to disconnect the load, the Daly does not.
How many batteries would I need to build a 48V 40 kWh size powerwall?
I'm pretty new at using batteries for anything. I am curious on how long did that heater run and how many watts was the low setting? Also I'm considering converting a 26 ft McGregor M sailboat to electric. I believe it's less than 4,000 lb on the trailer, and has a planing hull but needs to make at least 10 knots to plane. But I'm not sure how much I need and what 100 amp hours can do or 200 amp hours so on and so forth. not sure what size of electric motor and how long will it run. Not sure if the investment would be worth it. I really need to get 20 nautical miles out of a charge. Any suggestions?
Very accurate ! Good job explaining !
Hello experts, I put a 4S DALY BMS to my 272AH pack and check the voltage from BMS P- to Batter B+ and it show 3.11V, when i check from Battery B- to B+ it show 13V.... is the voltage from P- suppose to be same as B- ? thanks
I really Thank You for the video. It is so simple to understand! I am planning to install solar in my little MacGregor 26X sailboat, with lithium. I am a DIY guy, so I appreciate really your advice and links. I subcribed. Lovesssssssssss
Can you do an update on this brand of cells? The video is about 4 months old are they holding up? I am thinking of buying but endurance is my concern on Chinese batteries, thanks
Very nice and informative video. Please carry on 👍👍
Many users are buying from this resller called XUBA and specifcally asking for AMY as there rep. I bought 32 all same qr style code and tested to full 280 ah. Running a 16s2p setup on a 48V mpp solar LV5048
I bought from the same source (Amy at Xuba) and got pristine cells as well.
Amy is no longer with Xuba, she's now with Shenzhen Luyuan.
@@alharrison3255 You are correct, elsewhere in the comments here, I have linked to the new company she started with her husband. Good service, good prices, and she doesn't exaggerate (aka lie) to sell you a product. At the time I purchased my cells, she worked at Xuba, now she has her own company at szluyuan.en.alibaba.com/
@@john_in_phoenix I didn't read every post, so I missed yours.
@@alharrison3255 not a problem. I make no money from recommending her, I am just a satisfied customer.
on the alibaba link you posted, is the cost for one cell $332? or is that for a pack of 4 cells?
The price is for 4 cells
@@LithiumSolar thank you✊
So how long did the space heater actually run off the battery pack you made?
excellent demonstration
It was helpful.
Thank you very much.
I should add that when I got them, I hooked 18 of them in parallel and used my iCharger x8 to do a 1s charge to 3.65vdc. it took about 3-4 days, lol. it was awesome though.
18? are you super crazy? you should have used 5 chargers to charge that many cells
The aluminum canning is connected to positive. Would you build a pack like your present with an additional isolation between the cells for RV DIY battery builds.
Thanks for your opinion
Bob
Yes, I would put a spacer between the cells in a permanent installation. I wouldn't rely on the plastic wrapping alone, especially in an installation where vibration is present.
@@LithiumSolar What material do you recommend? What thickness?
Hi, thanks for great info. I have a comment about the M6 screws, though,
In order to use the full depth of the inside thread and compensate for different thickness of bus bars, I recommend to take longer M6 screw, cut the head off and then fully screw it in as a post. Then use M6 washer/nut to tighten the bar to specification. Just a thought. Cheers.
Most people use 25mm m6 studs (they have an allen head) rather than cutting off screws. McMaster Carr has 10 packs for $3.52 (stainless steel).
Threaded studs and flanged nuts seem to be the best option for these cells.
Apparently it's really easy to damage the threading as it's an aluminium terminal
@@w3bb0y Some vendors just started offering studs welded in rather than tapped holes. Probably costs extra, but that is an option that I would pay for, the aluminum is too easy to strip when trying to get a nice tight connection.
JFYI - for common metric thread sizes (M2 - M24+) you don't have to mention thread pitch.. it's not as complicated as the imperial system.
Only in rare cases the thread pitch differs from the standard and it usually involves custom applications (say optical instrument optical path threads) or some designer wants to make sure that a certain grade bolt is being used (car seats for example need hardened bolts in my car and thus come with a non standard M10 thread pitch of 1.25 mm instead of 1.5 mm).
Interesting info, didn't know that, thanks! The metric bolts/screws sure are easier to remember and pick out in the hardware store... lol
Great test. Would be great to have links to all your instruments.
I'm planning to build the same setup to replace my sedan's lead acid battery. Would you say this is a good replacement? Regarding the wires, I can see that the BMS is using 7AWG. Is it possible to replace this with 4AWG or just leave it? For the positive pole, what wire gauge should I use?
Great content, thanks for making these videos. I have the same X6 charger but can't find a cable for the cell monitoring (the white wires with the alligator clips). Can you provide a source to where you got yours? Thanks
The connector for the balance leads is a JST-XH (you can search this on Amazon). I soldered the alligator clips on for ease of use in videos.
seriously?
I love your videos!
Where would you go for solar panels at this point? I'm looking for reliable panels that are affordable. I can get Canadian solar delivered but I don't know how reliable they are. Any thoughts?
GREAT REVIEW! Thank you. I wonder if you could suggest a smaller Ah setup - 100-150. I am putting together a battery for a boat that I need to carry off frequently (25-30 lbs.) Thank YOU!
Check out overkill solar, great cells and a better BMS, shipping and support from the USA. Yes, more expensive, but much better warranty and support.
..well ok ..but what about my house 🏠 can u help.. ihave Turbines fr GREENERGYSTAR.COM and WINDTURBINEUSA.COM and need batteries setup..
hello, can you build another pack that is identical with its own bms and the paralell the two batteries in a 4s2p config? or will the bms´s not handle that?
What is your opinion about compressing of these battery cells
Been thinking about getting 12 of these for a 36v golf cart instead of the heavy lead acid. Just not sure how they would do being being in a moving vehicle with all the vibration and bumps.
they problably do the same as a tesla or any onther electric vehicles
Would these be safe in the back of a ute or truck as they say in the states. Gets up to 35 celsius here and it would be hotter with just a taunue cover over the tray. With the right boxing would it be safe?
Oh my god. U look just like my grandpa Smith.
40’s. When I was 5or6. I am now 83. I have less hair then u. He died of an enlarged heart. I am a 22 year survivor of 5 heart bypass. Just subscribed.
As an Australian, planning out batteries is a challenge. Throwing money at the problem, yeah I can get battle-born's. But that's AU $1300, not including shipping. Local suppliers appear to charge similar prices for what the US market would call the B-grade to Battle-born.
Please give details for the display you used to monitor the voltage
Great info thank you