And yes, these cells suck. Look at the listing, it states brand new, grade a cells. And this is the garbage I got. Grade A cells are ordered. Or so it says they are. That will be next week's video. Hopefully they are good. I hate bloated cells, but ahh well. It's lifepo4, so I don't care. Worst that could happen is over pressure relief valve spitting gas for a day and I would have to wheel the box out of my shop. It wouldnt hurt anything though. I would assume that people watching a raw cell battery build would understand the problems with bloated cells. If not, look it up. I would never do this if it was not lifepo4. I used to build packs years ago with lipoly pouch cells and they will burn your house down. Not an issue with lifepo4, but it would be messy and smelly. And you can't breathe that stuff. So stick to a ready built battery if you don't understand this stuff. *Does off-grid solar confuse you?* Check out my DIY friendly website for solar system packages and product recommendations, and so much more! www.mobile-solarpower.com *Join our DIY solar community* #1 largest solar forum on the internet for beginners and professionals alike: www.diysolarforum.com *Check out my Book* Best-selling and beginner-friendly guide to 12V off-grid solar! amzn.to/2Aj4dX4 If DIY is not for you, but you love solar and need an offgrid system, check out Tesla Energy! They will price out a system and get your house offgrid: ts.la/william57509 *My DIY Solar Equipment Recommendations (Constantly updated! Check here first):* 12V/48V Lithium Solar Batteries: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-batteries.html Complete Solar System Component Directory: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solarcomponents.html Complete 48V System Blueprint: www.mobile-solarpower.com/48v-complete-system-blueprint.html Plug-N-Play System Recommendations: www.mobile-solarpower.com/full-size-systems.html Complete "Add to Cart" 48V System Kits: www.mobile-solarpower.com/complete-48v-solar-kits.html DIY Friendly Air Conditioner/ Heat Pumps: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-friendly-air-conditioners.html *My Favorite Online Stores for DIY Solar Products:* *Signature Solar* Offgrid One-Stop-Shop. Best Value 48V LiFePO4, Victron and Offgrid Specific Heat Pumps: www.signaturesolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek *Current Connected* SOK, Victron, Mr.Cool Heatpumps and High Quality Components. Fantastic customer support: currentconnected.com/?ref=wp *Litime* My favorite 12V budget battery!: www.litime.com/?ref=XBIA62RFcalHns *Epoch Batteries* My favorite high-quality 12V battery: www.epochbatteries.com/products/12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heated-bluetooth-victron-comms?rfsn=7352625.50494d *Renogy* A classic 12V solar store that has been around for ages! DC to DC Chargers and more! renogy.sjv.io/n1VjXx *Rich Solar* Renogy's biggest competitor! Similar products, but at a better price: richsolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek *Battery Hookup* Cheap cell deals bit.ly/2mIxSqt 5% off code: diysolar *Contact Information:* I am NOT available for personal solar system consult! If you wish to contact me, this is my direct email: williamprowsediysolar@gmail.com Join the forum at diysolarforum.com/ if you wish to hang out with myself and others and talk about solar *FTC Disclosure Statement and Disclaimers:* Every video includes some form of paid promotion or sponsorship. Some links on this youtube channel may be affiliate links. We may get paid if you buy something or take an action after clicking one of these. My videos are for educational purposes only. Information is subject to change/update at any time. Electricity is DANGEROUS and can kill. Be smart and use common sense :) DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, An affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com
Thanks for sharing. After my aliexpress order for 280ah cells got canceled I considered getting these "320ah" cells, but hesitated due lousy Aliexpress dispute process.
Excellent video, it's so good to see some 48V builds from you. It sucks that the batteries are so poor of a quality but your taking the bullet for those people who might have gotten suckered into buying them. I cannot wait for your testing review of this pack. Also really looking forward to true Grade A cell pack video. :) BTW might be a good idea to keep a charcoal based full face gas mask in your work shop just in case you need to get something out of there without breathing in any of the gas. You could buy an ST-100X or something better and get a good quality canister for it.
I’m new to solar. Is the reason you have a 48v system so you can use smaller cables and have higher capacity? Also, do you use 2 inverters to get 240vac or are there single inverters that will do the job? Lastly, how do you wire your panels to the charge controller and what is the wattage/voltage of the panels?
@@blueskies927 you can use single inverters to get 240 volt single phase You have to get the right one though The reason for 48 volt is it allows you to use smaller gauge cables but still be able to have high power loads If you increase the voltage then current will be lower which allows the cables to be smaller
Will, it's obvious that you are the best solar energy content provider on RUclips. That's because of your unbiased methodical evaluation of manufacturer's products. Congratulations for finding a way to support yourself and obviously have so much fun doing it, your enthusiasm is infectious. (Infectious might be the wrong word to use at this time)
Infectious is quite a normal word for all times because it has never been different. People die all day and all years and they will do so also in the future. The thing is that people need those infections to get stronger. Or just die as it has allways been. The thought that people are not allowed to get sick anymore is ludicrous.
I really like Wills positive attitude and honesty. I wish I could be as positive as Will, but after being around as long as I have it takes a toll on your optimism.
This guy is determined. He is methodical. Unbiased. Most importantly he shows that he has a strong will to follow a logical path and find answers to questions that help us all. Yes, this Will is a strong will in search of the facts.
@Glitch Inthematrix with the US gov't currently hounding Chinese solar panels...it'll be a while But you can easily find used 335 watt paela for ~$100, just look
the cells are probably binned. they probably aim for 300ah, but some of the cells come out higher or lower, so in order to maximise profits, they're priced by their actual capacity
Hi Will, glad you tested these 320Ah battery packs. there is a group of Batteries with 304/310/320 Ah which I have used in strings (2 * 16) now for a while on my (Growatt) Solar system and had very little to complain. One cell bloated very slightly (not like the ones you got) when I top balanced a string of 16 and the seller added one more immediately to the next shipping foc. I'm living in Northern Thailand, which is quite close to China and shipping takes only 2 to 3 weeks, so it is easy to order spare batteries and parts. To save space and to keep potential bloating in check I stack them vertically. 8 batteries are stacked on each other and so far it works. I just received another 32 304 Ah batteries after I made good experiences with the 304Ah variation, but I also ordered another 16 320Ah, simply as it was irresistible low priced for 1,250 USD including shipping to my doorstep (83 USD per kWh, unbeatable) and a similar stack from the same seller worked fine but I have no too high expectations, but then, you never know. I'm in the process to expand to two Growatt SPF 5000 ES with 5 X 16S 304/320Ah strings what should keep my house (including all ACs and pool and water pumps, etc, off the grid for a good time of the year and to keep the house bright during the many power cuts we experience here. All great fun.
So around 90% capacity, you might get another 4% from balancing. That's 0.18$ per Wh, not bad. LithiumSolar's review of the same battery showed 96.5% capacity but that was after balancing. I think they should do great for a Van/Solar build. Thanks for the great review :)
Generally, what makes one battery or technology better for rv or solar or automotive systems? I’m guessing it has do for with the discharge depth? Or whatever it’s called. I know with some you can only use 50%, others are much more. But in theory could I use LiFePO4 in my car? Is it just not cost effective or is it not compatible?
@@Tommy-B. The LiFePO4 would start the car but it would cause your alternator to "fry" when charging because the batteries can absorb so much power. You would need to upgrade the alternator or put in an additional regulator to meter the charge output. (I think)
@@Tommy-B. It's not cost effective or compatible. You can't charge generic LiFePO batteries at low temps. If you want longetivity just avoid draining the battery or get a yellow top. Lead acid is used in cars because it's cost effective. Now my camper could use these cells, because it would benefit from the lower weight and higher depth of discharge. Different use case, as car batteries just start the engine or power accessories for brief periods.
@@Tommy-B. As I read it, Lithium batteries are only good for outputting about 100amps. But a car starter motor might require 500+ amps, so still using lead acid for high amp things.
@@sailingelectricgitana1286 LFP batteries can discharge at a 3C rate. For these 320 Ah cells that would be 960 amps. 4 in series makes an awesome 12 volt battery - except for the fact they can’t be safely charged below freezing. That rules them out unless you take special precautions to keep them in a insulated case with a thermostatically controlled low power heater.
It's interesting to see your thought on these! Why didn't you order from a more well-known vendor though? I don't think it's fair to say they're 91% rated capacity when you didn't balance them. My concern with the compression is more to make sure the terminals don't break. I'm super paranoid about that happening. Do you think I'm worrying too much? What I ended up doing was very gently tightening the compression while at full SOC so that it's pretty much just holding them in place (not squeezing) which should allow them to decompress/compress normally without putting any force on the studs. Either way, I'm curious to see how yours are doing after a month or so. I haven't put mine in service just yet.
Yes that's exactly my thinking when I stated I want some compression to protect the terminal. I said it before I started building the pack. Even the garbage cells I test usually pull full capacity lately, without any balancing. If they matched them at the factory, they should be at the same exact soc. But yeah, doesn't look like they matched them up. Will need some balancing for sure.
Yes, I'll cycle them a bunch and retest, then I'll be able to draw a conclusion. I found a new listing that looks way better. And the shipping is faster. $1000 more for this size pack, but they look great. And yes, I never tried this store before. Check out the spelling errors in the listing 😂😂 they were cheap though!
The forum has discussions on the aluminum cells, in addition to compression, or at least solid frame lockdown, they are concerned about electrically insulating separator between cells. Are you not concerned for the wrap leakage?
Wow, for about $10K, you can build a big enough system to power most homes, to include charging a car and running HVAC. Imagine if every home had a system like this.
Agreed. Think back two decades and this would have been essentially 'unobtanium' let alone anything at 3 or even 4 times the price. To top it all, Will does this by himself in his home workshop. Props for that alone!!!!!
@@brianjrichman And to think I started out with 2 trolling motor batteries after the Loma Prieta 1989 earthquake. Stuff is getting better by the minute, cheaper in price, too. Bluetooth components are a real winner. Check your battery state from your couch.
@@jghall00 You would be paying almost 33 cents a kwh in California. By the first day or two you would be in Tier 2 billing. That would cost almost $1000 a month here. 26 cents kwh Tier1, 33 cents per kwh Tier 2.
Don’t just watch, build a small system yourself. You’d be amazed that the learning curve when you connect a little knowledge with actual practical application.
@@4philipp I have been more into soldering and power projects this year but on a tinkercad scale. Right now I am building a fume extractor and will stick to small 12v projects. Just not comfortable enough with electricity to try a larger scale project.
Hi, Will. Thank you for sharing, it's really awesome. I'd like to ask you if it's safe to use such a bloated cells, that contract and expand so insanely. With regard to busbars and mounts and that internal compression issues. I mean they may not have the advertised capacity, but more than enough to cause a mayhem. What do you think?
It could blow the valve one day, but it is lifepo4, so not a big deal. I would never do this with a combustible chemistry. Lifepo4 and LTO is all I work with for this reason. I used to use other battery types, but those will burn your house down.
Can you do a video of how you add additional packs to your system? for example how to add the 320ah cells to an existing 250ah pack and maybe an existing 200ah pack too
Hi Will, thanks for the video and the test results. I'm also concerned about those studs. The base of the welded studs seem small and the contact area with the bus bar is relatively low. Can you let us know if the circular base of the studs are steel or aluminum? If it's steel then it's going to be a problem. Another thing we must note is that they might have welded the studs, not for our convenience, but to hide the scratched/used terminals from prior usage. Thanks in advance!
IMPORTANT: So, 3 months to get it. The credit card only give money back in 60 days. What if they don't send you the batteries or the ship captured by Pirate or so ? do they still send you replace or give money back? thanks
Hi Will. I ordered 16 grade A CATL 310ah cells on Amazon several weeks ago for $3079.99 (CNEEL store). Probably show up late September. I’ll let you know how it goes. There’s a bunch of 16S 300 ah BMS’s with Bluetooth on EBay for under $100 but I have no idea what quality. Then there’s the Daly 16S smart 250 amp $233. Some have had Daly problems but I bet 75% is user fault (surge & wrong connections). If you have any 200+ amp 16S suggestions I’m all ears. I’m curious and may just pull the trigger on the EBay one for giggles and watch it like a hawk. Are you concerned that one of your 8S banks goes high and shuts the series down early? Those are the most puffy packs (from new) I’ve ever seen. Funny how they can expand and contract. And that’s why I like to arrange the cells so the terminals polarity are all on the same side ( like when you top balance). I run # 2 cable & lugs diagonally, no buss bars. You are 100% correct about tension on the terminals as the pack swells and contact.
I bought 32 of these for only 3700 shipped. They arrived in great condition and no bloating. No marks to indicate they were used. All seems great so far. I ordered through Alibaba
looking for some help wiring 2 batt together have 12.8v 200a and 4 cells made up 12.8v 200a with a bms don't know were to connect the neg wire b- on batt or p- to power from bms
That’s a decent low cost system. What is your thought on multiple smaller systems for a home? Like one for critical appliances, a different one for lights, one for the workshop and so forth. I’m thinking here about system resilience. If one goes down, you only loose 1/4 or 1/3 of your supply and can still operate the others until parts are available.
I could see the value in having a couple of smaller systems. IF you have a camper trailer/RV then it would make sense to integrate that system into your home system, and reduce the size requirement for your home system. When you take your RV (and RV solar/battery system) out camping, you can stand to raise the temperature for your AC in the home, and empty/disconnect your fridge to reduce home power usage while you're away.
Had you considered adding bypass diodes in between cells to allow them to balance on every charge cycle? Is there any concern with that type of cell chemistry overheating and causing a thermal runaway, or fire propagating from one cell to the next? If so, you could put some thermal barriers in between, which would also provide the cells some room to expand.
@@lbroome I compressed to that 12psi spec. 24 cells side by side and the ends didn't move at all! The compression spec isn't about expansion though, it is suppose to be 12psi constant. I don't think doing it loosely has much benefit.
Thank you for excellent videos, Will! It seems, that flexible busbars will better fits for cell interconnections in the battery - it eliminates of expansion/contaction forces application to stud/busbar connections.
@@mfgxl, you mean short cable jumpers with cable lugs at its ends? Because, there are special flexible insulated busbars exists, which do not require cable lugs. These are avaible from Schneider Electric and othe brands.
I've been running a very similar pack of grade b bloated cells for 6 months (16KWH). No trouble. But I found better suppliers and get grade A cells for the same price. No bloating. Built a 64KWH grade A at same price per WH as my first grade B system.
@@con-king @Jeff R Great question. I don't know if there is a simple way to put this, but I don't know if it is as much a matter of supplier as it is context. The same supplier might treat people differently. A lot of them are supply constrained and are selling grade B to get by when they are out of stock on grade A. Don't just buy a random item listing. You need to establish a relationship with a representative at the supplier by contacting them directly. It takes time, first you buy a sample with a larger order contingent on the quality. Pooling a few orders together to make a larger one puts you at the front of the line. This sets the context that it is not worth the trouble trying to pull one over on you. Good Luck.
Be careful....I'm pushing 70 and was a carbon copy of Will when I was in my 20's. I would be building things at 3AM in my shop regularly. Come to think of it, I was down in the shop at 4AM last Sunday assembling a battery pack for my 68 year old geezer friend who needs his CPAP during our power outages. My wife left me for another woman 20 years ago and the cat doesn't mind if I stay up late.
Good day Will. Could you please consider investigating graphene batteries? It is a fascinating potentially new tech addition. Your experience and understanding could really help people who are waiting for these batteries before adding solar backups with lithium batts. Thanks for the informative videos!
Hi, 16kwh are a lot for those batteries, used at 100% they degrade too quickly, I always size for 40% less: 3.2volt x 16 = 51.2V x 320 Ah = 16.38 Kwh - 40% = 9 , 82 Kwh usable from that counter at nominal 48V, we round up to 10Kwh, am I exaggerating in your opinion? What are the minimum and maximum voltages you use, the standard is 20% less than the nominal capacity, I prefer to make them last longer than squeeze them. Thanks for your great videos Ciao
@@kangt544 I have known the chemistry of lithium iron phosphate batteries well for over 10 years, you are saying some inaccuracies, just the excess of charge damages them the most, the research documents on LiFePo4 indicate that above 3.25 Volts the degradation starts, an acceptable compromise is never exceed 3.55 volts per cell (stay on 14 volts for a @ 12V battery) then there are those who charge them at 3.65 volts, it also depends on the use made of them and on those who use them, a private individual generally he has no money to waste, a public company yes, as a minimum voltage never go below 3 volts per cell so never below 12 volts, then one is free to do what he wants, in fact there is a video where you see a battery bank with single cells that did not last 3 years on an RV, considering the cost it is better to make them last a little longer, as you say you should reach a maximum voltage of 3.8 volts per cell with an absurd degradation and a useful life / extremely reduced cycles and not convenient. Ciao
@@winterburan I wanted to repeat this build as well but was struggling calculating the battery pack I would need to create and run in series. I would like to get at least 10 kwh out of a less then $3,000 build price.
@@skylergardner2792 If you want to stay in the $ 3000 @48V you have to buy a similar product, maybe grade A, it's fine for 10Kwh, don't go below 3Volt per cell and don't go above 3.5-3.55V
looks like they actually sold you 280ah cells. cheated you, but I like the welded-on studs on the terminals you received on them. hard to make good busbars with smashed copper pipe and then drill the holes in the right spots so I gave up on that method and ordered busbars for paralleling cells, and made 2/0 cables and lugs for series connections. not cheap or easy but better in the long run I hope. I am building a 32-cell 1088Ah 24-volt using 3.2V 272Ah Lishen cells build. not for the beginner -- lots of power!!!😎
I wonder if those batteries were over rated. I have 200 batteries that look exactly like those. Mine are rated at 280 Ah. My guess is that perhaps the Aliexpress listing over sold the capacity. If they are in fact 280 Ah, you have great batteries! I imagine a size and weight comparison would be in order.
Hello Will and Group: I am a newbie and I did buy the wrong deep cell wrong battery for my micro climate I am still learning about charging and discharging deep cell batteries. I need to buy a deep cell battery that can be used and works in winter locations, below O Will and Group what do you know about Fullriver Batteries? Will please think about doing a you tube review of Fullriver deep cell batteries? It is very hard to find deep cell batteries that will work on there own in below O locations. Regards Hope
Any info on where you got that box Will? I've got a shipment of the same size batteries on the water from a different AE vendor ... they claim they are brand new grade A. Keeping my fingers crossed!
Will, how would you size and configure the batteries to only run the Bitcoin miner? Could you please do a dedicated video? What a discovery is your channel!
@@BobDevV hey thanks! I'm sizing my plant to run on a S9j Pro and not on GPUs since it would run at about 100TH/s, which is insane compared to the MH/s order of magnitude of GPUs. This not only has the advantage of small space needed, but also is far easier for me to find a single Antminer than dozens of GPUs (and all the added hardware they need to run). Plus I'm not planning to expand the number of miners at the moment. So, I'm planning to run my miner for 5-6hrs on solar panels (I live in south Italy, where solar irradiance is great), and 12-18hrs on batteries (12 is fine too). So I calculated that I need 3,2kW * 6 = 19kW coming from solar panels and like 48kW from batteries. But I also have to account for the batteries recharge WHILE the miner is being powered from the panels, so I'm iterating over the numbers now.
@@BobDevV you are forgetting the battery isn't going to drain during the day as long as you have enough solar to run the miner and charge the batteries.
@darksideofthemoon for a S19j you need ~3.4 KW. To run 100 % green. (Energy produced yearly by solar = en absorbed by the miner) you'll need roughly 20KWp of solar array (south italy radiation data). If you want to run it completely offgrid then you ll need to be able to produce around 2500KWh in december which is the weakest month for energy production. To do this you will need something like 30 KWp of solar array with 40kwh of lifepo4 batteries. In conclusion to run it offgrid it's not worth it. If you run it with net metering its easier and it would make sense, but still it's a big project because 20KWp of solar is not always possible to be installed on the roof to take advantage of the net metering.
@@AbAeterno827 I don't need to run it 100% of the time. Of course my goal is to optimize the efficiency, but if in december it's not as profitable as in march or september it's totally fine for me. I'll just run it in best effort and take what I get. After all it's free energy.
Hi Will, I have a question and maybe you can do a video about this topic. A lot of all-in one inverters will only work with the batteries if they have a RS485 connection. Do you know about any BMS with a build in RS485 port that will communicate with the most known inverters? And what setting do you use for your Growatt inverter when you connect your DIY lifepo4 batteri banks?
Love your videos even though some of it goes over my head but I’m learning. I would love to build a battery system for my house that has solar that feeds to the grid because the likes of the tesla battery is just very expensive but I need to learn more before heading down this path.
He does have better batteries in some of his reviews. These "B" grade cell videos are more about building usable batteries for the lowest cost possible. Think of it as spending $400 on a cell phone vs $1,000. A fancy $1,000 phone would be nice but the $400 phone is fine if it does what you need it to and it is what you can afford.
@@4philipp For one thing, all electric ranges and ovens, dryer, plus a 50 GPH deep well pump (86 amperes and 240 vac startup current), an electronics lab with older "boat anchor" mostly HP and Tektronix equipment, a full recording studio and a 20,000 watt sound system and theater with a commercial projector.
I have purchased 64 of these cells. To compensate for slots in the bus bars I fitted brass washers below the busbar and contact washers under the nuts. To stabilised the connections I clamped them with bandit. All my internal resistance were well below the list from Catl. They are allegedly grade A but some are slightly bulged. I top balanced and also fitted 2 amp active balance units to each pack. In time they hold a few millivolts. I have a spreadsheet of all the initial values if anyone wants it.
Your link to the cheap cells from today goes to a Sanbren page that says brand new cells. Is this the seller you talked about towards the end of the video for brand new cells or is this the seller that sold you the grade B stuff used in this video? Thanks for all you do for those of us interested in building our own battery bank.
Do you recommend to use aditional isolation between cells, or is ok to hust tighten them up together with tape/belt? I have 120AH LIFE 16+16 pcs with daly bmsses. How do you recommend to measure SOC? I found onpy expensive BMSes. thx for advice and keep up gr8 content.
And here's me waffling about buying a 100Ah for my camper... lol. All joking aside, your videos are a HUGE help for nOObs like me who really are totally new to battery technology, especially when it comes to Lithium. There are so many makes and suppliers out there now it is hard to try to decide where to start. Your videos help a lot. Killer system WIll, I wish I had the spare $$ to put in a setup 1/2 that good in my place.
Will, You have some serious fault current available to you and i will stand to be corrected but those breakers may not be able to clear a fault of the available capacity , i believe you should consider using MCCB or HRC Fuses with a very high KA rating
, thanks for responding @@WillProwse I am probably a bit old school, relying on Mosfets for isolation & protection is something i am not used to from an industrial perspective, can you guarantee that the Mosfet will operate faster than the time current curve rating of the breaker ( Co-Ordination) as i see it the breaker should operate before the BMS if your using the breaker as a switch then its not really there for protection , So your saying the BMS circuit protection is there to protect the cable from overload and short circuit protection or just the battery ?, maybe you can tell me is the BMS set to protect the cable and the cable size greater than the Over Current & Short circuit protection of the BMS. I must say in Industry the talk of fully electronic circuit breakers where you may find semiconductors being used is only just starting to appear with many regulators not accepting them yet , Industry does not yet have the confidence that isolation can be fully achieved and be reliable however i do know fault clearing times can be really fast , that's my understanding and maybe you are correct that the BMS is suitable I just feel the protection should be off the Battery and be the primary form of protection with the BMS protecting the battery
I am putting 2 24 v packs together with 2 8s bms (just like this build). I get 57 volts when i measure on the battery, but only half when i measure on the other side of the bms. Do you have a diagram of how you connected the bms's?
I built my own 12V 280Ah battery inside a group 31 battery box using cells from Aliexpress about two months ago. They arrived with slight bloating, about 2mm gap between the cells, so it wasn't as bloated as your setup. I also bought a 200a daly smart bms for the cells at the same time. So far the battery has performed pretty well, have hooked up a 2000W inverter to them and the voltage drop was about 350 mV at 175A. Still a great difference between two sealed lead acid batteries which i had before and my current setup.
hi ,this is Aolithium battery ,we have some EVE battery cell in the stock right now ,3.2v 105/230/280/304 Ah with competitive price ,let me know if you need some
I need advise. If Will Prowse doesn’t reply any EXPERT please advise me I have already built a 4X50Ah lifepo4 battery. Now I am building another 4x50Ah battery. Which setup will be beneficial for me. Connecting both batteries in parallel and get 12v 400Ah or connecting in serial and get 24v 200 Ah? Thanks for your kind reply.
Eve 280ah cells, from Eve, are currently $105 each. Grade A new. So this build would probably be much cheaper today. Something like a 105ah mobile power station DIY build would be interesting now. Orient Power has a DIY bms/ panel, which has the SOC/SOH display, but is that the only way to get a DIY display? I would think that today's BMS offerings would also be improved.
I've got 16 of the grade a batteries, building a 24v system. We are in a 5R, and are power hogs. Right now we're just building the system to see where can put and how it goes. Got a little under $2500 (200ah batteries) into so far, also using the overkill bms. I watch your videos, pause and take notes, want to thank you for what you do. We got room on roof for about 12 panels, our ac in basement, only 3 vents on roof, about 300sf for panels. So might use the used panels you had in a previous vid. Also using same container, but smaller, we put a barrier around the packs and then expanded foam in bottom of tote so they won't shift, batteries can be lifted out if necessary. Cause 5Rer's move.
I wouldn’t go with used panels if your that limited on space. Get the best panels that fit maybe even bifacial panels especially if your roof is white.
Hello. I bought 16 EVE brand 280ah cells to make a 48v 280ah battery pack. I also bought JK BMS, it also has other connection equipment. However, during the final assembly, I could not decide what I should put as an insulator between the cells. They install epoxy sheets in commercial products. I don't have any epoxy sheets. I am thinking of using corrugated (cardboard / cardboard sheet etc.) for both insulator and heat ventilation, but I do not know if there is a fire risk in this. As long as there is no arc or heated cable, I do not think there will be an ignition due to cell temperature. Because if that degree of heat is released, the cell is already dead. WHAT IS YOUR ADVICE?
200Ah lithium batteries for $50. Of course you still need a BMS. What is the catch? They are used batteries. Customers report that they are happy with these batteries, BUT a few complain about swollen batteries. The big question is where did these batteries come from and how old are they. Being that I am a dummy about these batteries, I buy assembled 200AH units. Of course $600 is much more expensive but they work well and there is no assembly needed. Are these used batteries worth taking a chance?
I did this exact same thing a few months ago with the cheapest 100ah LiFePO4 batteries I found on eBay. Took a 2-3 months to arrive just like these and look similar only smaller. I had purchased a sailboat that had been converted to electric, but the lead acid batteries were sulfated. I tried adding magic potions but no luck. Then I got the lithium batteries almost as a test since they were cheaper than lead acid of similar capacity and OMG The performance is fantastic on the boat. I am able to motor for an hour or more at normal maneuvering speeds. I have not done full endurance testing. I'll be adding a second bank eventually. I use the cheap flexible solar panels on the boat.
Hey can someone please fix my math. If you put 16 cells in series then 280ah x 1 cell x 48v(3.2 in series)= 13.44 kwh each if you have 15 cells in series. Each 280 ah cell on eBay can be about 150 bucks so then that's 150 per 13.44kwh
I have different question. Do you have any list of 1 phase 3.6kW ,two strings (MPPT) inverters which would work with DIY LiFePo4 48V bank ? Finally got my 16 cells LiFePo4 cells EVE 3.2V 280Ah.
I have a question and need your opinion ... I have 16S LiFePo4 battery, 310 A CATL with Daly BMS use for small electric vehicle .... But now , 2 cells is mechanicaly damaged and need to replace ... Can I Replace with 280A CATL battery or must be 310A ? Or can I replace with another type of battery (eve) with 310A ? Thanks ,
Will, run GPU machines for mining or HPC/AI/Machine Learning. Cloud/Edge off-grid server farm is ideal. GPU has much longer lifespan than ASIC (Application Specific Integrated Circuit). BTW, to let you know I am the real deal. MIAMI MAJOR CATASTROPHE ~2/2022 DROWNING. I love your videos btw...I'm in Arizona right now. Working on off-grid ranch/trailer park/server farm. Taking my ROY OFF-GRID (Rick & Morty Reference). ONE SON OF MAN METATRON GOD GIVEN
the battery cell cores that have been treated at the top of the pile - all old goods - are disassembled from the electric vehicle, showing signs of swelling,
That is cheap $170/kWh or $189 if accounting for the lower capacity. 5.3kg per cell 320AH*3.2V = 1024Wh =193Wh/kg that is too high for LiFePO4 to be realistic, it is like the heavier Li-ion cells, so I think the cells are specced too optimistic. High quality prismatic LiFePO4 cells in this type of packaging are 170Wh/kg (might be an old rule of thumb), so by that you've got your hands on 200Ah cells. So you paid $195/kWh. Hopefully the A-grade order will prove them better worth your money.
Can you do a quick walkthrough of something that you would consider a cheap off-grid option? The sum-up you had at the end was pretty positive thing to hear - full off-grid for $11k is less than one would have to pay for digging the way to majority of off-site locations :)
Hi...if using 6kw high frequency battery charger,with rema320 connector with CAN bus protocol..is that any bms come with can bus connection? Or any can module that can coordinate with bms and the charges
IMPORTANT: Will, you talked about the relief valve spitting gas all day, you can't breathe etc... So you said the solution would be stick to a ready built battery if you don't understand this stuff. But I ask: These ready sealed batteries Ex: 12.8V 200Ah, which I have seen do not have a pressure relief valve or a gas elimination valve. So, if this happens inside there, where there are days or hours leaking gas and there is no way out, it can become a gas pump or cause a problem internally, including for the BMS that is normally included inside (do you agree with that? ) You Do you know if these gases that release LiFePo4 prismatic cells are not only toxic, but also flammable? Thanks and hugs to my friend!
GUYS? can anyone please help me with the calculation figure out: How many of the Overkill Solar BMS at link above: the 48v 16S bms is good for? " battery bank: 48v system 25 kwh, solar 5kwh : load 1000 watts with GroWatt 5kwh x 2 ". Thanks guys
I started 3d printing cases for my lifep04 cells. So far, seems to work well keeping the cells compressed. Thank you for all of the work you have put into these videos. I built a 12v 280ah lifep04 battery for our camper.
I built one of these for my home, here in Ontario Canada the electricity price is cheapest during off peak hours, so I charge the system during the night and only pay .06/kwh . Save at least $2000/year
And yes, these cells suck. Look at the listing, it states brand new, grade a cells. And this is the garbage I got.
Grade A cells are ordered. Or so it says they are. That will be next week's video. Hopefully they are good.
I hate bloated cells, but ahh well. It's lifepo4, so I don't care. Worst that could happen is over pressure relief valve spitting gas for a day and I would have to wheel the box out of my shop. It wouldnt hurt anything though. I would assume that people watching a raw cell battery build would understand the problems with bloated cells. If not, look it up. I would never do this if it was not lifepo4. I used to build packs years ago with lipoly pouch cells and they will burn your house down. Not an issue with lifepo4, but it would be messy and smelly. And you can't breathe that stuff. So stick to a ready built battery if you don't understand this stuff.
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Thanks for sharing. After my aliexpress order for 280ah cells got canceled I considered getting these "320ah" cells, but hesitated due lousy Aliexpress dispute process.
Excellent video, it's so good to see some 48V builds from you.
It sucks that the batteries are so poor of a quality but your taking the bullet for those people who might have gotten suckered into buying them. I cannot wait for your testing review of this pack. Also really looking forward to true Grade A cell pack video. :)
BTW might be a good idea to keep a charcoal based full face gas mask in your work shop just in case you need to get something out of there without breathing in any of the gas. You could buy an ST-100X or something better and get a good quality canister for it.
I’m new to solar. Is the reason you have a 48v system so you can use smaller cables and have higher capacity? Also, do you use 2 inverters to get 240vac or are there single inverters that will do the job? Lastly, how do you wire your panels to the charge controller and what is the wattage/voltage of the panels?
@@blueskies927
you can use single inverters to get 240 volt single phase
You have to get the right one though
The reason for 48 volt is it allows you to use smaller gauge cables but still be able to have high power loads
If you increase the voltage then current will be lower which allows the cables to be smaller
It's strange that they have 130 all positive reviews on the Aliexpress link. I read a few of them and they seem legit but who knows.
Will, it's obvious that you are the best solar energy content provider on RUclips.
That's because of your unbiased methodical evaluation of manufacturer's products. Congratulations for
finding a way to support yourself and obviously have so much fun doing it, your enthusiasm is infectious.
(Infectious might be the wrong word to use at this time)
He isn't afraid to say something isn't good, if it isn't. I like that honesty.
Infectious is quite a normal word for all times because it has never been different. People die all day and all years and they will do so also in the future. The thing is that people need those infections to get stronger. Or just die as it has allways been. The thought that people are not allowed to get sick anymore is ludicrous.
I really like Wills positive attitude and honesty. I wish I could be as positive as Will, but after being around as long as I have it takes a toll on your optimism.
No it's not, best contest is off-grid-garage from my friend in sunny australia
This guy is determined. He is methodical. Unbiased. Most importantly he shows that he has a strong will to follow a logical path and find answers to questions that help us all. Yes, this Will is a strong will in search of the facts.
@Ben David just how boomers be when they get bricked up about something
Makes me wish I could scrounge up $11k and get off the grid completely lol. This system would easily handle my usage 😊
@Glitch Inthematrix And energy production from nuclear fusion is only 10 years away.
And it has been 10 years away for like the last 60 years.
@yougotservedyo in my opinion it pays for it self as soon as you turn it on and you have energy independence
Sell your car
@Glitch Inthematrix with the US gov't currently hounding Chinese solar panels...it'll be a while
But you can easily find used 335 watt paela for ~$100, just look
How many years would 11k pay your Bill??
When you have an option to purchase new for $6k, and DIY for $2k, I think you won't complain of 10% capacity loss.
This cells looks exactly as 280Ah cells, i am not really sure that 320 are exist at all...
Order some of the Amazon ones Will linked above and let us all know
@@LEOhopeful i bought 32 of the 320ah. They are grade A for 3700. So much less then what he paid for grade B. These are heavier then the 280ah
@@nunyabusiness2191 Amazon or Ali?
Link?
They are actually 304ah cells, they exist
the cells are probably binned. they probably aim for 300ah, but some of the cells come out higher or lower, so in order to maximise profits, they're priced by their actual capacity
Hi Will, glad you tested these 320Ah battery packs. there is a group of Batteries with 304/310/320 Ah which I have used in strings (2 * 16) now for a while on my (Growatt) Solar system and had very little to complain. One cell bloated very slightly (not like the ones you got) when I top balanced a string of 16 and the seller added one more immediately to the next shipping foc. I'm living in Northern Thailand, which is quite close to China and shipping takes only 2 to 3 weeks, so it is easy to order spare batteries and parts. To save space and to keep potential bloating in check I stack them vertically. 8 batteries are stacked on each other and so far it works. I just received another 32 304 Ah batteries after I made good experiences with the 304Ah variation, but I also ordered another 16 320Ah, simply as it was irresistible low priced for 1,250 USD including shipping to my doorstep (83 USD per kWh, unbeatable) and a similar stack from the same seller worked fine but I have no too high expectations, but then, you never know. I'm in the process to expand to two Growatt SPF 5000 ES with 5 X 16S 304/320Ah strings what should keep my house (including all ACs and pool and water pumps, etc, off the grid for a good time of the year and to keep the house bright during the many power cuts we experience here. All great fun.
Be nice if you could tell us the Delta voltage at the high and low end instead of keeping us hanging come on man 🤔😂😱
This was so over my head. But still interesting none the less.
Watch his earlier videos it's not as complicated as it looks.
So around 90% capacity, you might get another 4% from balancing. That's 0.18$ per Wh, not bad.
LithiumSolar's review of the same battery showed 96.5% capacity but that was after balancing.
I think they should do great for a Van/Solar build.
Thanks for the great review :)
Generally, what makes one battery or technology better for rv or solar or automotive systems? I’m guessing it has do for with the discharge depth? Or whatever it’s called. I know with some you can only use 50%, others are much more. But in theory could I use LiFePO4 in my car? Is it just not cost effective or is it not compatible?
@@Tommy-B. The LiFePO4 would start the car but it would cause your alternator to "fry" when charging because the batteries can absorb so much power. You would need to upgrade the alternator or put in an additional regulator to meter the charge output. (I think)
@@Tommy-B. It's not cost effective or compatible. You can't charge generic LiFePO batteries at low temps. If you want longetivity just avoid draining the battery or get a yellow top. Lead acid is used in cars because it's cost effective. Now my camper could use these cells, because it would benefit from the lower weight and higher depth of discharge. Different use case, as car batteries just start the engine or power accessories for brief periods.
@@Tommy-B. As I read it, Lithium batteries are only good for outputting about 100amps. But a car starter motor might require 500+ amps, so still using lead acid for high amp things.
@@sailingelectricgitana1286 LFP batteries can discharge at a 3C rate. For these 320 Ah cells that would be 960 amps. 4 in series makes an awesome 12 volt battery - except for the fact they can’t be safely charged below freezing. That rules them out unless you take special precautions to keep them in a insulated case with a thermostatically controlled low power heater.
That's another great video, I really love the way you explain everything, I also wanted to know what you think about BYD batteries pack HVM and HVS
It's interesting to see your thought on these! Why didn't you order from a more well-known vendor though? I don't think it's fair to say they're 91% rated capacity when you didn't balance them. My concern with the compression is more to make sure the terminals don't break. I'm super paranoid about that happening. Do you think I'm worrying too much? What I ended up doing was very gently tightening the compression while at full SOC so that it's pretty much just holding them in place (not squeezing) which should allow them to decompress/compress normally without putting any force on the studs. Either way, I'm curious to see how yours are doing after a month or so. I haven't put mine in service just yet.
Yes that's exactly my thinking when I stated I want some compression to protect the terminal. I said it before I started building the pack.
Even the garbage cells I test usually pull full capacity lately, without any balancing. If they matched them at the factory, they should be at the same exact soc. But yeah, doesn't look like they matched them up. Will need some balancing for sure.
Yes, I'll cycle them a bunch and retest, then I'll be able to draw a conclusion. I found a new listing that looks way better. And the shipping is faster. $1000 more for this size pack, but they look great. And yes, I never tried this store before. Check out the spelling errors in the listing 😂😂 they were cheap though!
The forum has discussions on the aluminum cells, in addition to compression, or at least solid frame lockdown, they are concerned about electrically insulating separator between cells.
Are you not concerned for the wrap leakage?
I could but I've seen plenty of packs work fine without it. High vibration environment, then yeah. That would be smart idea.
Wow, for about $10K, you can build a big enough system to power most homes, to include charging a car and running HVAC. Imagine if every home had a system like this.
Agreed. Think back two decades and this would have been essentially 'unobtanium' let alone anything at 3 or even 4 times the price. To top it all, Will does this by himself in his home workshop. Props for that alone!!!!!
@@brianjrichman And to think I started out with 2 trolling motor batteries after the Loma Prieta 1989 earthquake. Stuff is getting better by the minute, cheaper in price, too. Bluetooth components are a real winner. Check your battery state from your couch.
You can get cells for cheaper than this. This is about $170 a kwh but you can get some for $120 a kwh. Used to be even cheaper a year ago.
We use 100 kWh a day in summer. My family are energy hogs 😭
@@jghall00 You would be paying almost 33 cents a kwh in California. By the first day or two you would be in Tier 2 billing. That would cost almost $1000 a month here. 26 cents kwh Tier1, 33 cents per kwh Tier 2.
I wish I had like 1% the knowledge of electricity and power management you have. I’ll keep watching to learn the other 99.5% 😁
Don’t just watch, build a small system yourself. You’d be amazed that the learning curve when you connect a little knowledge with actual practical application.
@@4philipp I have been more into soldering and power projects this year but on a tinkercad scale. Right now I am building a fume extractor and will stick to small 12v projects. Just not comfortable enough with electricity to try a larger scale project.
It's unbelievable how much I learn by watching your channel. Thank you so much!
10:49 most 2021 thing I've heared so far 🤣
Would it be worth making insulated links so that every adjacent pair of cells is bolted at both ends?
That would aid mechanical stability.
Hi, Will. Thank you for sharing, it's really awesome. I'd like to ask you if it's safe to use such a bloated cells, that contract and expand so insanely. With regard to busbars and mounts and that internal compression issues. I mean they may not have the advertised capacity, but more than enough to cause a mayhem. What do you think?
It could blow the valve one day, but it is lifepo4, so not a big deal. I would never do this with a combustible chemistry. Lifepo4 and LTO is all I work with for this reason. I used to use other battery types, but those will burn your house down.
@@WillProwse Older video but seeing how cells may eventually start swelling it seems braided buss bars are the only way to go.
Can you do a video of how you add additional packs to your system? for example how to add the 320ah cells to an existing 250ah pack and maybe an existing 200ah pack too
Hi Will, thanks for the video and the test results. I'm also concerned about those studs. The base of the welded studs seem small and the contact area with the bus bar is relatively low. Can you let us know if the circular base of the studs are steel or aluminum? If it's steel then it's going to be a problem. Another thing we must note is that they might have welded the studs, not for our convenience, but to hide the scratched/used terminals from prior usage. Thanks in advance!
They estimated cost of $11k did not include the 7000 Watts of solar panels right?
Overkill is now selling a 16 cell BMS. Just a heads up. :)
90% capacity at half price. Absolutely worth it.
IMPORTANT: So, 3 months to get it. The credit card only give money back in 60 days. What if they don't send you the batteries or the ship captured by Pirate or so ? do they still send you replace or give money back? thanks
Hi Will. I ordered 16 grade A CATL 310ah cells on Amazon several weeks ago for $3079.99 (CNEEL store). Probably show up late September. I’ll let you know how it goes. There’s a bunch of 16S 300 ah BMS’s with Bluetooth on EBay for under $100 but I have no idea what quality. Then there’s the Daly 16S smart 250 amp $233. Some have had Daly problems but I bet 75% is user fault (surge & wrong connections). If you have any 200+ amp 16S suggestions I’m all ears. I’m curious and may just pull the trigger on the EBay one for giggles and watch it like a hawk. Are you concerned that one of your 8S banks goes high and shuts the series down early? Those are the most puffy packs (from new) I’ve ever seen. Funny how they can expand and contract. And that’s why I like to arrange the cells so the terminals polarity are all on the same side ( like when you top balance). I run # 2 cable & lugs diagonally, no buss bars. You are 100% correct about tension on the terminals as the pack swells and contact.
How did it go?
I really appreciate how you thoroughly explain each step (the how, why and when). Great info sensei! I look forward to the next video :D
I bought 32 of these for only 3700 shipped. They arrived in great condition and no bloating. No marks to indicate they were used. All seems great so far. I ordered through Alibaba
looking for some help wiring 2 batt together have 12.8v 200a and 4 cells made up 12.8v 200a with a bms don't know were to connect the neg wire b- on batt or p- to power from bms
B minus goes to the main negative on the battery
P minus goes to your loads negative terminal
That’s a decent low cost system.
What is your thought on multiple smaller systems for a home? Like one for critical appliances, a different one for lights, one for the workshop and so forth. I’m thinking here about system resilience. If one goes down, you only loose 1/4 or 1/3 of your supply and can still operate the others until parts are available.
You could also use an arduino to limit power consumption of a group of appliances. So there will always be enough juice for the critical appliances.
I could see the value in having a couple of smaller systems. IF you have a camper trailer/RV then it would make sense to integrate that system into your home system, and reduce the size requirement for your home system. When you take your RV (and RV solar/battery system) out camping, you can stand to raise the temperature for your AC in the home, and empty/disconnect your fridge to reduce home power usage while you're away.
Had you considered adding bypass diodes in between cells to allow them to balance on every charge cycle? Is there any concern with that type of cell chemistry overheating and causing a thermal runaway, or fire propagating from one cell to the next? If so, you could put some thermal barriers in between, which would also provide the cells some room to expand.
With my cells compressed they don't move at all when empty vs full. Why didn't you show us cell voltages when charged?
@@lbroome I compressed to that 12psi spec. 24 cells side by side and the ends didn't move at all! The compression spec isn't about expansion though, it is suppose to be 12psi constant. I don't think doing it loosely has much benefit.
@@lbroome stick a scale in between to get the pressure. Figure out how tight It needs to be then duplicate. It means like I said, 12psi constant.
regarding the BMS - could you have used a larger one (eg: 20s BMS) and just doubled up the last few leads?
I was looking at these batteries, i really appreciate the tips and testing.
Let us know if you get them
I bought 32 of the 320ah for 3700 and were grade A!
@@nunyabusiness2191that's a whole lot of capacity for that price, i guess you'll be running a whole house on that
@@whateverthisis3929 this one is my smaller bank. I have 2500ah 48v total..i use for power and central air water heater and heating in spring and fall
I have 16 280ah on their way. They claimed grade A. Fingers crossed. Thanks for the video.
How’d you get your kWh? 48x320=15360. Just curious as to what I’m missing?🤘🏼
Because it's not 48V with this chemistry. It is 51.2V nominal. Good question.
Well now I'm expecting a battery reveal video for those unreleased ones you are testing!
Thank you for excellent videos, Will!
It seems, that flexible busbars will better fits for cell interconnections in the battery - it eliminates of expansion/contaction forces application to stud/busbar connections.
They call those cables
@@mfgxl, you mean short cable jumpers with cable lugs at its ends? Because, there are special flexible insulated busbars exists, which do not require cable lugs. These are avaible from Schneider Electric and othe brands.
You put out so much good information, I really enjoy your channel.
Awesome video this is exactly what I was talking about.
I've been running a very similar pack of grade b bloated cells for 6 months (16KWH). No trouble. But I found better suppliers and get grade A cells for the same price. No bloating. Built a 64KWH grade A at same price per WH as my first grade B system.
What suppliers do you recommend?
Could you give a link to the grade A cells you bought?
@@con-king @Jeff R Great question. I don't know if there is a simple way to put this, but I don't know if it is as much a matter of supplier as it is context. The same supplier might treat people differently. A lot of them are supply constrained and are selling grade B to get by when they are out of stock on grade A.
Don't just buy a random item listing. You need to establish a relationship with a representative at the supplier by contacting them directly.
It takes time, first you buy a sample with a larger order contingent on the quality.
Pooling a few orders together to make a larger one puts you at the front of the line.
This sets the context that it is not worth the trouble trying to pull one over on you.
Good Luck.
@@justdoityourself7134 I'm game. How much do you charge for a killer deal with your supplier?
too much for an old guy just saying
Be careful....I'm pushing 70 and was a carbon copy of Will when I was in my 20's. I would be building things at 3AM in my shop regularly. Come to think of it, I was down in the shop at 4AM last Sunday assembling a battery pack for my 68 year old geezer friend who needs his CPAP during our power outages. My wife left me for another woman 20 years ago and the cat doesn't mind if I stay up late.
Can someone suggest a suitable BMS that would communicate with a Solis RHI-5K-48ES-5G Inverter which requires CANBUS?
Daly BMS it has a can adapter be sure that you buy the SOC display
Good day Will. Could you please consider investigating graphene batteries? It is a fascinating potentially new tech addition. Your experience and understanding could really help people who are waiting for these batteries before adding solar backups with lithium batts. Thanks for the informative videos!
Hi, 16kwh are a lot for those batteries, used at 100% they degrade too quickly, I always size for 40% less: 3.2volt x 16 = 51.2V x 320 Ah = 16.38 Kwh - 40% = 9 , 82 Kwh usable from that counter at nominal 48V, we round up to 10Kwh, am I exaggerating in your opinion? What are the minimum and maximum voltages you use, the standard is 20% less than the nominal capacity, I prefer to make them last longer than squeeze them.
Thanks for your great videos Ciao
These are LiFePo4, not Cobalt based Lithium batteries. Charging to 100% is fine with this chemistry.
@@kangt544 I have known the chemistry of lithium iron phosphate batteries well for over 10 years, you are saying some inaccuracies, just the excess of charge damages them the most, the research documents on LiFePo4 indicate that above 3.25 Volts the degradation starts, an acceptable compromise is never exceed 3.55 volts per cell (stay on 14 volts for a @ 12V battery) then there are those who charge them at 3.65 volts, it also depends on the use made of them and on those who use them, a private individual generally he has no money to waste, a public company yes, as a minimum voltage never go below 3 volts per cell so never below 12 volts, then one is free to do what he wants, in fact there is a video where you see a battery bank with single cells that did not last 3 years on an RV, considering the cost it is better to make them last a little longer, as you say you should reach a maximum voltage of 3.8 volts per cell with an absurd degradation and a useful life / extremely reduced cycles and not convenient. Ciao
@@winterburan I wanted to repeat this build as well but was struggling calculating the battery pack I would need to create and run in series. I would like to get at least 10 kwh out of a less then $3,000 build price.
@@skylergardner2792 If you want to stay in the $ 3000 @48V you have to buy a similar product, maybe grade A, it's fine for 10Kwh, don't go below 3Volt per cell and don't go above 3.5-3.55V
@@winterburan i found some 38120 LiFePo4 cells with advertised 8Ah 3.2V
I'm going to try and DIY a powerwall using those cells.
looks like they actually sold you 280ah cells. cheated you, but I like the welded-on studs on the terminals you received on them. hard to make good busbars with smashed copper pipe and then drill the holes in the right spots so I gave up on that method and ordered busbars for paralleling cells, and made 2/0 cables and lugs for series connections. not cheap or easy but better in the long run I hope. I am building a 32-cell 1088Ah 24-volt using 3.2V 272Ah Lishen cells build. not for the beginner -- lots of power!!!😎
I take it that Nickel Iron batteries are no longer trendy for DIY solar...
I wonder if those batteries were over rated. I have 200 batteries that look exactly like those. Mine are rated at 280 Ah. My guess is that perhaps the Aliexpress listing over sold the capacity. If they are in fact 280 Ah, you have great batteries! I imagine a size and weight comparison would be in order.
Hello Will and Group:
I am a newbie and I did buy the wrong deep cell wrong battery for my micro climate I am still learning about charging and discharging deep cell batteries. I need to buy a deep cell battery that can be used and works in winter locations, below O
Will and Group what do you know about Fullriver Batteries?
Will please think about doing a you tube review of Fullriver deep cell batteries?
It is very hard to find deep cell batteries that will work on there own in below O locations.
Regards
Hope
Any info on where you got that box Will? I've got a shipment of the same size batteries on the water from a different AE vendor ... they claim they are brand new grade A. Keeping my fingers crossed!
it was only $30 from home depot actually. great little box
Great idea bro!!! Heat your house with Bitcoin miners. Lmao.
Will, how would you size and configure the batteries to only run the Bitcoin miner? Could you please do a dedicated video? What a discovery is your channel!
@@BobDevV hey thanks! I'm sizing my plant to run on a S9j Pro and not on GPUs since it would run at about 100TH/s, which is insane compared to the MH/s order of magnitude of GPUs. This not only has the advantage of small space needed, but also is far easier for me to find a single Antminer than dozens of GPUs (and all the added hardware they need to run). Plus I'm not planning to expand the number of miners at the moment.
So, I'm planning to run my miner for 5-6hrs on solar panels (I live in south Italy, where solar irradiance is great), and 12-18hrs on batteries (12 is fine too). So I calculated that I need 3,2kW * 6 = 19kW coming from solar panels and like 48kW from batteries.
But I also have to account for the batteries recharge WHILE the miner is being powered from the panels, so I'm iterating over the numbers now.
@@BobDevV you are forgetting the battery isn't going to drain during the day as long as you have enough solar to run the miner and charge the batteries.
@darksideofthemoon for a S19j you need ~3.4 KW. To run 100 % green. (Energy produced yearly by solar = en absorbed by the miner) you'll need roughly 20KWp of solar array (south italy radiation data). If you want to run it completely offgrid then you ll need to be able to produce around 2500KWh in december which is the weakest month for energy production. To do this you will need something like 30 KWp of solar array with 40kwh of lifepo4 batteries. In conclusion to run it offgrid it's not worth it. If you run it with net metering its easier and it would make sense, but still it's a big project because 20KWp of solar is not always possible to be installed on the roof to take advantage of the net metering.
@@AbAeterno827 I don't need to run it 100% of the time. Of course my goal is to optimize the efficiency, but if in december it's not as profitable as in march or september it's totally fine for me. I'll just run it in best effort and take what I get. After all it's free energy.
@@AbAeterno827 btw, the Bitmain webpage says 2950W ± 5%
Hi Will,
I have a question and maybe you can do a video about this topic. A lot of all-in one inverters will only work with the batteries if they have a RS485 connection. Do you know about any BMS with a build in RS485 port that will communicate with the most known inverters? And what setting do you use for your Growatt inverter when you connect your DIY lifepo4 batteri banks?
Love your videos even though some of it goes over my head but I’m learning.
I would love to build a battery system for my house that has solar that feeds to the grid because the likes of the tesla battery is just very expensive but I need to learn more before heading down this path.
A cheap or "repurposed" battery pack isn't worth having. Reconditioned batteries are not worth having either.
I've watched a number of your videos and the bulged battery seems to be a recurring theme. Why not source a better battery?
He does have better batteries in some of his reviews. These "B" grade cell videos are more about building usable batteries for the lowest cost possible. Think of it as spending $400 on a cell phone vs $1,000. A fancy $1,000 phone would be nice but the $400 phone is fine if it does what you need it to and it is what you can afford.
Price and they all swell anyway
I need about 400kwh of battery capacity to replace 200a service. Still too costly. But shifting is coming.
400kwh ? You run a small factory?
Yeah that is a ton of energy storage. What are you running??
@@4philipp For one thing, all electric ranges and ovens, dryer, plus a 50 GPH deep well pump (86 amperes and 240 vac startup current), an electronics lab with older "boat anchor" mostly HP and Tektronix equipment, a full recording studio and a 20,000 watt sound system and theater with a commercial projector.
Thanks for all our hard work Will.
That plastic box you have them in is it safe without having a small fan to take the heat outta the box if it gets any?
You can make manufacturer change their design with a little critic which improve their products for all of us, great job
I have purchased 64 of these cells. To compensate for slots in the bus bars I fitted brass washers below the busbar and contact washers under the nuts. To stabilised the connections I clamped them with bandit.
All my internal resistance were well below the list from Catl. They are allegedly grade A but some are slightly bulged. I top balanced and also fitted 2 amp active balance units to each pack. In time they hold a few millivolts.
I have a spreadsheet of all the initial values if anyone wants it.
Your link to the cheap cells from today goes to a Sanbren page that says brand new cells. Is this the seller you talked about towards the end of the video for brand new cells or is this the seller that sold you the grade B stuff used in this video? Thanks for all you do for those of us interested in building our own battery bank.
No, the first one IS the one I used. They lied to me.
When I first started looking at LiFePO4 as an option for sailboats, $11,000 was low for a small system for a sailboat!
Do you recommend to use aditional isolation between cells, or is ok to hust tighten them up together with tape/belt? I have 120AH LIFE 16+16 pcs with daly bmsses. How do you recommend to measure SOC? I found onpy expensive BMSes. thx for advice and keep up gr8 content.
No, I don't care at all. People keep crying about that. The sleeves are designed to isolate and they work well.
Don't over tighten the cells together
I would use a victron shunt and you can measure SOC accurately. You will love it
@@WillProwse I wish the Victron Shunt had a way to record historical data
Will, what software/hardware are you using to run your capacity test? Thanks
And here's me waffling about buying a 100Ah for my camper... lol. All joking aside, your videos are a HUGE help for nOObs like me who really are totally new to battery technology, especially when it comes to Lithium. There are so many makes and suppliers out there now it is hard to try to decide where to start. Your videos help a lot.
Killer system WIll, I wish I had the spare $$ to put in a setup 1/2 that good in my place.
getting a bit lazy there Will! not top balancing, not matching the voltage to your system before connecting them together. dont cut corners.
Will, You have some serious fault current available to you and i will stand to be corrected but those breakers may not be able to clear a fault of the available capacity , i believe you should consider using MCCB or HRC Fuses with a very high KA rating
Each bms has OCP, and a marine grade circuit breaker rated for this voltage. Why would it not?
There are 3 over current protection devices, and the voltage rating of the fets is 80V. Should be fine right?
, thanks for responding @@WillProwse I am probably a bit old school, relying on Mosfets for isolation & protection is something i am not used to from an industrial perspective, can you guarantee that the Mosfet will operate faster than the time current curve rating of the breaker ( Co-Ordination) as i see it the breaker should operate before the BMS if your using the breaker as a switch then its not really there for protection , So your saying the BMS circuit protection is there to protect the cable from overload and short circuit protection or just the battery ?, maybe you can tell me is the BMS set to protect the cable and the cable size greater than the Over Current & Short circuit protection of the BMS.
I must say in Industry the talk of fully electronic circuit breakers where you may find semiconductors being used is only just starting to appear with many regulators not accepting them yet , Industry does not yet have the confidence that isolation can be fully achieved and be reliable however i do know fault clearing times can be really fast , that's my understanding and maybe you are correct that the BMS is suitable
I just feel the protection should be off the Battery and be the primary form of protection with the BMS protecting the battery
I am putting 2 24 v packs together with 2 8s bms (just like this build).
I get 57 volts when i measure on the battery, but only half when i measure on the other side of the bms.
Do you have a diagram of how you connected the bms's?
I built my own 12V 280Ah battery inside a group 31 battery box using cells from Aliexpress about two months ago. They arrived with slight bloating, about 2mm gap between the cells, so it wasn't as bloated as your setup. I also bought a 200a daly smart bms for the cells at the same time. So far the battery has performed pretty well, have hooked up a 2000W inverter to them and the voltage drop was about 350 mV at 175A. Still a great difference between two sealed lead acid batteries which i had before and my current setup.
I can't believe how expensive the empty battery boxes are right now.
hi ,this is Aolithium battery ,we have some EVE battery cell in the stock right now ,3.2v 105/230/280/304 Ah with competitive price ,let me know if you need some
I love your channel. I feel like if I watch enough of it.. I will eventually understand all of it. Thanks for these!
Will's battery review: one of the honest, hardest, and detailed review.
Will's DIY battery: one of the simplest and jangkiest setup
LMAO
You are a very impressive human being. Keep up the great work.
Excellent advice and review. Love your channel. Well done! All the best. Zen
Wow what a system! That's a serious lithium battery! Can't wait to see the other "secret" battery 😃😃😃
I need advise. If Will Prowse doesn’t reply any EXPERT please advise me
I have already built a 4X50Ah lifepo4 battery. Now I am building another 4x50Ah battery. Which setup will be beneficial for me. Connecting both batteries in parallel and get 12v 400Ah or connecting in serial and get 24v 200 Ah?
Thanks for your kind reply.
Eve 280ah cells, from Eve, are currently $105 each. Grade A new. So this build would probably be much cheaper today. Something like a 105ah mobile power station DIY build would be interesting now. Orient Power has a DIY bms/ panel, which has the SOC/SOH display, but is that the only way to get a DIY display? I would think that today's BMS offerings would also be improved.
I've got 16 of the grade a batteries, building a 24v system. We are in a 5R, and are power hogs. Right now we're just building the system to see where can put and how it goes. Got a little under $2500 (200ah batteries) into so far, also using the overkill bms. I watch your videos, pause and take notes, want to thank you for what you do. We got room on roof for about 12 panels, our ac in basement, only 3 vents on roof, about 300sf for panels. So might use the used panels you had in a previous vid. Also using same container, but smaller, we put a barrier around the packs and then expanded foam in bottom of tote so they won't shift, batteries can be lifted out if necessary. Cause 5Rer's move.
I wouldn’t go with used panels if your that limited on space. Get the best panels that fit maybe even bifacial panels especially if your roof is white.
What charger do you use for top balance. If the batteries are connected in parallel. For example 3.65v, 2240ah total of 8 batteries
I am a bit confused about the use of bloated batteries. What is considerd acceptable and safe to use if a battery is bloated?
Hello.
I bought 16 EVE brand 280ah cells to make a 48v 280ah battery pack. I also bought JK BMS, it also has other connection equipment. However, during the final assembly, I could not decide what I should put as an insulator between the cells. They install epoxy sheets in commercial products. I don't have any epoxy sheets. I am thinking of using corrugated (cardboard / cardboard sheet etc.) for both insulator and heat ventilation, but I do not know if there is a fire risk in this. As long as there is no arc or heated cable, I do not think there will be an ignition due to cell temperature. Because if that degree of heat is released, the cell is already dead. WHAT IS YOUR ADVICE?
I wish you would do more 24v batteries test, because my system is a 24v lol
200Ah lithium batteries for $50. Of course you still need a BMS. What is the catch? They are used batteries. Customers report that they are happy with these batteries, BUT a few complain about swollen batteries. The big question is where did these batteries come from and how old are they. Being that I am a dummy about these batteries, I buy assembled 200AH units. Of course $600 is much more expensive but they work well and there is no assembly needed. Are these used batteries worth taking a chance?
I did this exact same thing a few months ago with the cheapest 100ah LiFePO4 batteries I found on eBay. Took a 2-3 months to arrive just like these and look similar only smaller. I had purchased a sailboat that had been converted to electric, but the lead acid batteries were sulfated. I tried adding magic potions but no luck. Then I got the lithium batteries almost as a test since they were cheaper than lead acid of similar capacity and OMG The performance is fantastic on the boat. I am able to motor for an hour or more at normal maneuvering speeds. I have not done full endurance testing. I'll be adding a second bank eventually. I use the cheap flexible solar panels on the boat.
Hey can someone please fix my math.
If you put 16 cells in series then 280ah x 1 cell x 48v(3.2 in series)= 13.44 kwh each if you have 15 cells in series.
Each 280 ah cell on eBay can be about 150 bucks so then that's 150 per 13.44kwh
I have different question. Do you have any list of 1 phase 3.6kW ,two strings (MPPT) inverters which would work with DIY LiFePo4 48V bank ?
Finally got my 16 cells LiFePo4 cells EVE 3.2V 280Ah.
I have a question and need your opinion ... I have 16S LiFePo4 battery, 310 A CATL with Daly BMS use for small electric vehicle .... But now , 2 cells is mechanicaly damaged and need to replace ... Can I Replace with 280A CATL battery or must be 310A ? Or can I replace with another type of battery (eve) with 310A ? Thanks ,
Will, run GPU machines for mining or HPC/AI/Machine Learning. Cloud/Edge off-grid server farm is ideal. GPU has much longer lifespan than ASIC (Application Specific Integrated Circuit).
BTW, to let you know I am the real deal. MIAMI MAJOR CATASTROPHE ~2/2022 DROWNING.
I love your videos btw...I'm in Arizona right now. Working on off-grid ranch/trailer park/server farm.
Taking my ROY OFF-GRID (Rick & Morty Reference).
ONE
SON OF MAN
METATRON
GOD GIVEN
could you do a video on just BMSs that we can use for various voltages?
Watching your video from Bangladesh. I always watch your video. It is very informative.
Thanks for your advice and great effort.
the battery cell cores that have been treated at the top of the pile - all old goods - are disassembled from the electric vehicle, showing signs of swelling,
That is cheap $170/kWh or $189 if accounting for the lower capacity. 5.3kg per cell 320AH*3.2V = 1024Wh =193Wh/kg that is too high for LiFePO4 to be realistic, it is like the heavier Li-ion cells, so I think the cells are specced too optimistic. High quality prismatic LiFePO4 cells in this type of packaging are 170Wh/kg (might be an old rule of thumb), so by that you've got your hands on 200Ah cells. So you paid $195/kWh. Hopefully the A-grade order will prove them better worth your money.
Will gonna start putting Bitcoin miners throughout the house to heat it during winter.
Can you do a quick walkthrough of something that you would consider a cheap off-grid option? The sum-up you had at the end was pretty positive thing to hear - full off-grid for $11k is less than one would have to pay for digging the way to majority of off-site locations :)
Must make sure it’s allowed first and he has a ton of videos
Hi...if using 6kw high frequency battery charger,with rema320 connector with CAN bus protocol..is that any bms come with can bus connection? Or any can module that can coordinate with bms and the charges
IMPORTANT: Will, you talked about the relief valve spitting gas all day, you can't breathe etc... So you said the solution would be stick to a ready built battery if you don't understand this stuff. But I ask: These ready sealed batteries Ex: 12.8V 200Ah, which I have seen do not have a pressure relief valve or a gas elimination valve. So, if this happens inside there, where there are days or hours leaking gas and there is no way out, it can become a gas pump or cause a problem internally, including for the BMS that is normally included inside (do you agree with that? ) You Do you know if these gases that release LiFePo4 prismatic cells are not only toxic, but also flammable? Thanks and hugs to my friend!
GUYS? can anyone please help me with the calculation figure out: How many of the Overkill Solar BMS at link above: the 48v 16S bms is good for? " battery bank: 48v system 25 kwh, solar 5kwh : load 1000 watts with GroWatt 5kwh x 2 ". Thanks guys
I started 3d printing cases for my lifep04 cells. So far, seems to work well keeping the cells compressed. Thank you for all of the work you have put into these videos. I built a 12v 280ah lifep04 battery for our camper.
I've been waiting for this video since January
I built one of these for my home, here in Ontario Canada the electricity price is cheapest during off peak hours, so I charge the system during the night and only pay .06/kwh . Save at least $2000/year
Shouldn't 100$/kWh be normal for LFP by now? Tesla, BYD ... Are getting lower prices?!
Prices for both cells and shipping have increased significantly since last December. For 280Ah cell +$28 per cell, +$13 per cell for shipping.
What do you think of the Basen Green kits? Have you done a review on those?