Interesting to compare your video using ballistics gel vs Paul Harrell's video where he shoots the 9mm silvertip thru t-shirt and meat. His fired bullets show almost perfect mushrooms found at the back
I used Winchester Blacktip for a long time, after it was discontinued I went with the Silvertip and been using that since & I am very pleased & comfortable with it.
To me it looked like the .45 Silvertip went about 13" and then sucked back to the spot where you found it. And that was not "bad" expansion because it was uneven. What matters more is what "caliber" it expanded to. I'm not defending Winchester Silvertips. I am a longtime .45ACP guy and only carried Silvertips for a short while until I found more CCI/Speer, which were my go-to carry cartridge. Right now, the carry ammo that I'd buy would be Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot or lastly, the bonded Remington premium whatever-it-is-called-now. That's just me.
Yeah, you and someone else mentioned that. I slowed the video down even further in editing to 0.1% playback and did see that the round penetrated the 13” or so and then was brought back to the beginning. I think I have to make another video with the clarification. I did a test with the federal punch and sig v crown in 45acp. That video will probably be out next week. I need to hunt down some federal hat and Speer gold dot in 45 to test those as well. But first I need to melt down this gel, because it’s too heavily used for accurate results after these three tests I did over the weekend.
That was what I saw too. I have some Winchester Ranger T-Series in 45 that I got during the drought for $1 per rd. Those are great from my recollection.
45man myself and just wish the old 200 flying ashtray was still on the market even though the gold Dot replaced it and is supposed to be a better upgrade I'd still prefer it over any these new modern bullets
@@larryplogman7997 The Flying Ashtrays win out on the sexy factor. The bad guy could look down your barrel and see them in the breech and know what was coming.
The silver tip round needs 4+ inches of barrel to achieve the speed necessary to expand, the lighter 124 and 115 examples would give you better results in your carry weapon. Put those 147 grain in a carbine and you'll see expansion! Not garbage ammo, just wrong for the gun
Also the silvertip I promise from a 357mag is a devistateing handgun load have taken a few whitetail and wild hogs with them and they dropped just as fast as being hit with a3030 and the wound damage when butchering you can't tell the difference from 357 and 3030
Cavitation and temporary wound cavities are basically artifacts of gel testing that are not observed in tissue, so I wouldn't get hung up on characterizing the cavitation cavity, especially since there are no standards as to what "good" cavitation should be (because it doesn't really matter). 12-18 inches of penetration and at least 50% expansion is the standard for handgun bullets. If you are only using 16" blocks, a complete passthrough may not mean over-penetration because it can go up to 18" and still meet the standard. That being said, it's pretty obvious that the 9mm didn't expand and it is unlikely they would have stopped if there was an additional two inches. Clear Ballistics gel blocks suffer from bounce back, so you need to measure penetration depth to the end of the tract, not to where the projector ends up
Exactly. Most RUclips gel testers talk about “wound channels” and temporary stretch cavities in gel as if they are pertinent to performance on living tissue. The FBI standard is based on how bullets that have proven themselves on people perform in a controlled and calibrated medium. The more important calculation would go to use penetration depth and expanded diameter in the formula for volume of a cylinder. That would give a useful number for comparison between two projectiles in gel 😉
I've seen other reviews where Silvertips work fine in 9mm, but at 115 grain. I'm wondering if the 147 grain didn't have enough speed to get the round to expand? It'd be interesting to see you try this round at 115 grain, but I understand if you don't want to buy this round again.
I don't understand why... but given equal caliber of bullets, it would seem lighter, faster hollow point bullets actually transfer more energy to their target and expand better and thus penetrate less.
@@TheFlyingZulu it's because the silvertip was originally made for the FBI in 1986 but failed to stop the threat in the correct amount of time in the maimi shootout but it did kill so they dropped the round off to civilians and we been tryna make them better ever since but anyway the fbi doesnt want there rounds to overpenetrate so they use 147, 147 for law and 115 for civilians but dont quote me on the last part😂 use whatever grain fits you because were talking about the bullet not the powder.
I’m going to agree with what others have said about the 45: that bullet went 13 to 14 inches and made such a large temporary cavity that it bounced back about 10 inches, making it look like it only went in 4”. But it’s clear that there is a 14” cavity that the bullet sits in. I’m not sure how you don’t see that.
I’ve got a box of them in 9mm , it was all I could find on the shelf and I figure it’s better than nothing. I joke about them with my son and told him I bought a box of werewolf ammo. I know, corny dad joke.
Yeah, but for it to not mushroom twice (maybe even 3 times, I can’t remember how many times I actually shot the gel) means it’s more the ammo than the gel. Interesting nonetheless and I need to not carry them.
Where Winchester messed up with the 9 was they used the same alloys toughness they used for 357 mag and 9 just hasn't got enough ass to back up a tough bullet like the 357 that's y it's a failure when the 45 silvertip works properly the 45is and always has been designed to work at lower velocity
Very interesting! I tried them in my ultra carry 3 inch and they were miserable! No expansion in my phonebook. Switched to Hornady right then for carry ammo and ever since.. Thank you!!!
penetration takes away from the energy transmitted to the target. Hydrostatic shock is what we are trying to transmit to the target. 9mm has always been a thru and thru round. Ideally a round that stops short in the target is transmitting 100% of the energy into the target. Great video, yes the 45 is ideal, the 9mm is lacking expansion. A very common tale.
The wound cavities in these kinds of jell do not adequately simulate the "permanent" would cavities in real tissue. How do I know? I saw it on another YT channel. But really, it's been argued that the permanent wounds in jell remain larger than they do in live tissue which tends to expand and then collapse.
Plain and simple y the 9 went completely through is Winchester made it tough to actually expand at 357mag velocity and the 9 just isn't enough cartridge to get expansion with that same design bullet where the 45performs like it's supposed to because it's designed to originally work at slower fps
The Winchester 32 auto silvertip was the best round in its day. A 32 was designed for the silvertip. Forgot the name of the gun but they had a 8 month wait period.
I saw the clouds against the foliage and something inside of me told me it was Florida. I don't know how I'm able to instantly recognize Florida with so little detail.
Why anyone would carry the heaviest weight bullet is beyond me. Velocity helps a bullet expand, and that 147gr bullet acted like a full metal jacket, which is my point. Had you tested the 115gr Silvertip, you would have been impressed. That's the only bullet I carry for self defense in 9mm. I also carry Silvertips in 40 S&W and 45 ACP. Also, your testing was skewed by the high wind (IMO). And only one block of gel? You could have frozen a one gallon milk jug of water as a back-stop. And then, ONE test- and you call it Trash? To each his own.
I don’t think most people realize that the silvertip design is about 40 years old. It was the 115 grain version that the FBI used in 1986 in Miami and ultimately determined that it was a failure of a load. Personally I think the 115gr version does a better job, but there are far superior bullets out there than the silvertip. The 147gr version has NEVER expanded like anyone hoped for. It has NEVER been a performer and it’s no wonder that no police departments ever issue that round anymore in either 115 or 147gr. The only silvertip round that performs nicely is their 175gr 10mm. It penetrates 17-18”and expands to the diameter of a dime. 😊
The reason why the 115 grain silver tip failed in the Miami Dade incident was because of over expansion, shallow penetration. Penetration is what incapacitates. When this bullet failed, How do you then say that 115 gr silver tip does a better job, and that 147 is a poor performer. 147 is what most law enforcement uses in this country with a few exceptions like the NYPD.
@@nelsonr1467 reread it again son…. The 147 gr SILVERTIP is a failure of a performer. That’s what I said. I didn’t say ALL 147 grain bullets. I’m taking SILVERTIPS in that paragraph. Focus son, stay with me now!
It looked to me like the 45 had some bounce back after it's forward momentum stopped. I use the gold dots in my 45 and the critical defense in 9mm. Can't seem to find any 9 gold dots in local stores right now.
Before you give up on Silver Tips, test this ammo in 115 grain 9mm. I've never carried 147 grain 9mm hollow points for any reason and I never will. I know that there are some 147 grain 9mm bullet designs that perform well, but I'll never carry them. 115, 124 or 127 grain 9mm HP's is what I choose everytime. Also, I'd hate for you to give up on Silver Tips with the rise of recent werewolf attacks. Lol. Stay safe.
Right now, the best round I have shot is the Speer gold dot hands down. There may be better ones out there, but from what I have done thus far it’s the Speer gold dot 124gr
Good video, AC. I have shot them in 9mm. I found they are not as accurate as other self defense rounds. Have you reviewed the Winchester PDX? I have heard they are vastly superior to Silver tips.
I just bought some defender elite’s, but not the pox. I really want to find the Winchester rangers in 9, 40, 45 and 357 sig and test those out. I heard those are the best that Winchester has to offer
DUDE - it NEEDS more velocity to to expand. And you mentioned that the 45 had way more energy BUT you didnt give us any numbers to work with. Try giving us the specs from the box of ammo.
I just got some of these in .45 ACP 185gr. to compare with Winchetser 230gr. HP. I'm kinda looking for more velocity and more penetration so this was a plus to find out. What I need to find out are they as accurate since they are so much lighter. EDIT: Just fired y old Winchetser 230 gr HP and bullseye....Fired 5 Silvertips and the lightweight bullet is a no go. Hitting 6" low and 10" to the left. Glad I only bought 20 rounds.
I was also disappointed with the performance of Silvertips. Try Hst and gold dot bullets, I think you will have far superior results. I have found those bullets to be consistently Awesome. Thank You for the video hopefully you will save someone else from wasting good money on mediocre bullets.
Interesting to compare your video using ballistics gel vs Paul Harrell's video where he shoots the 9mm silvertip thru t-shirt and meat. His fired bullets show almost perfect mushrooms found at the back
I used Winchester Blacktip for a long time, after it was discontinued I went with the Silvertip and been using that since & I am very pleased & comfortable with it.
Winchester never made such a thing as Black Tip 😂
@@johncoleman2495 Winchester SXZ jhp "black tip" 🤟👍
I still have one box left that I am going to keep just for shits and giggles.
@@johncoleman2495 awfully quiet over there 😂
How can you be comfortable with the results of this test? I HOPE you carry a 45.
Most people use two blocks. It’s not uncommon to penetrate more than 16 inches.
To me it looked like the .45 Silvertip went about 13" and then sucked back to the spot where you found it. And that was not "bad" expansion because it was uneven. What matters more is what "caliber" it expanded to.
I'm not defending Winchester Silvertips. I am a longtime .45ACP guy and only carried Silvertips for a short while until I found more CCI/Speer, which were my go-to carry cartridge. Right now, the carry ammo that I'd buy would be Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot or lastly, the bonded Remington premium whatever-it-is-called-now. That's just me.
Yeah, you and someone else mentioned that. I slowed the video down even further in editing to 0.1% playback and did see that the round penetrated the 13” or so and then was brought back to the beginning. I think I have to make another video with the clarification. I did a test with the federal punch and sig v crown in 45acp. That video will probably be out next week. I need to hunt down some federal hat and Speer gold dot in 45 to test those as well. But first I need to melt down this gel, because it’s too heavily used for accurate results after these three tests I did over the weekend.
That was what I saw too. I have some Winchester Ranger T-Series in 45 that I got during the drought for $1 per rd. Those are great from my recollection.
45man myself and just wish the old 200 flying ashtray was still on the market even though the gold Dot replaced it and is supposed to be a better upgrade I'd still prefer it over any these new modern bullets
@@larryplogman7997 The Flying Ashtrays win out on the sexy factor. The bad guy could look down your barrel and see them in the breech and know what was coming.
@@frankhinkle5772 yeah my friend maybe they did but promise when it got to the crooks end it probably didn't feel good
The silver tip round needs 4+ inches of barrel to achieve the speed necessary to expand, the lighter 124 and 115 examples would give you better results in your carry weapon.
Put those 147 grain in a carbine and you'll see expansion!
Not garbage ammo, just wrong for the gun
Do the 147gr need a longer barrel to perform correctly?
And if you look at the track of the 45 you will find that it penetrated almost 14 inches and bounced back which is very normal in gel
Federal HST, Winchester Defender PDX1 or Sig V-Crown are the best hollow pointed carry ammo I've found.
Some of the best defensive rounds ever created.
The silvertip 115gr works amazing on coyotes and wild boar.
For the 9mm go with the 115 grain silvertip it has amazing expansion
And not so good penetration.
Also the silvertip I promise from a 357mag is a devistateing handgun load have taken a few whitetail and wild hogs with them and they dropped just as fast as being hit with a3030 and the wound damage when butchering you can't tell the difference from 357 and 3030
To me it looked like the 45 got 13” of penetration, not 3”.
Cavitation and temporary wound cavities are basically artifacts of gel testing that are not observed in tissue, so I wouldn't get hung up on characterizing the cavitation cavity, especially since there are no standards as to what "good" cavitation should be (because it doesn't really matter). 12-18 inches of penetration and at least 50% expansion is the standard for handgun bullets. If you are only using 16" blocks, a complete passthrough may not mean over-penetration because it can go up to 18" and still meet the standard. That being said, it's pretty obvious that the 9mm didn't expand and it is unlikely they would have stopped if there was an additional two inches. Clear Ballistics gel blocks suffer from bounce back, so you need to measure penetration depth to the end of the tract, not to where the projector ends up
Exactly. Most RUclips gel testers talk about “wound channels” and temporary stretch cavities in gel as if they are pertinent to performance on living tissue. The FBI standard is based on how bullets that have proven themselves on people perform in a controlled and calibrated medium. The more important calculation would go to use penetration depth and expanded diameter in the formula for volume of a cylinder. That would give a useful number for comparison between two projectiles in gel 😉
I've seen other reviews where Silvertips work fine in 9mm, but at 115 grain. I'm wondering if the 147 grain didn't have enough speed to get the round to expand? It'd be interesting to see you try this round at 115 grain, but I understand if you don't want to buy this round again.
You know, that’s a good idea. I do have some 115’s in my stash that I could try just for shits and giggles
I have seen tests of the 115 or maybe 124g Silvertip and they work awesome - maybe the heavier ones are too slow, so that’s why they went through?
There is no 124 grain 9mm silvertip..only 115 & 147
I don't understand why... but given equal caliber of bullets, it would seem lighter, faster hollow point bullets actually transfer more energy to their target and expand better and thus penetrate less.
@@TheFlyingZulu it's because the silvertip was originally made for the FBI in 1986 but failed to stop the threat in the correct amount of time in the maimi shootout but it did kill so they dropped the round off to civilians and we been tryna make them better ever since but anyway the fbi doesnt want there rounds to overpenetrate so they use 147, 147 for law and 115 for civilians but dont quote me on the last part😂 use whatever grain fits you because were talking about the bullet not the powder.
I’m going to agree with what others have said about the 45: that bullet went 13 to 14 inches and made such a large temporary cavity that it bounced back about 10 inches, making it look like it only went in 4”. But it’s clear that there is a 14” cavity that the bullet sits in. I’m not sure how you don’t see that.
Glad you did this! I carry Silvertip and assumed it was solid.
Me too. Definitely not a fan of the 9mm
Good test. The 45 expanded good. The 9 must have failed to expand to go all the way through. Thanks for the video.
Agreed. Very poor performance compared to the Speer gold dots that I did a few weeks ago
I’ve got a box of them in 9mm , it was all I could find on the shelf and I figure it’s better than nothing. I joke about them with my son and told him I bought a box of werewolf ammo. I know, corny dad joke.
You need one of those high-tech fleece bullet traps if you plan to do more of these vids. Thanks for your presentation.
Try the 147 grain in a PCC. I'm wondering if higher velocity out of a 16 inch barrel will perform better.
Makes me wonder if the 9mm didn't mushroom. Those 45 are on point. Mangled and didn't overpenetrate.
Yeah, but for it to not mushroom twice (maybe even 3 times, I can’t remember how many times I actually shot the gel) means it’s more the ammo than the gel. Interesting nonetheless and I need to not carry them.
Where Winchester messed up with the 9 was they used the same alloys toughness they used for 357 mag and 9 just hasn't got enough ass to back up a tough bullet like the 357 that's y it's a failure when the 45 silvertip works properly the 45is and always has been designed to work at lower velocity
Andrew, thanks for another great video!
Thanks Sean!
Have you tried Underwood Xtreme Defender in 9mm? I have some Silvertip, but my go-to for carry is the Underwood. They seem pretty awesome.
No, I need to sit down and place a nice order from underwood and get a bunch to try
Very interesting! I tried them in my ultra carry 3 inch and they were miserable! No expansion in my phonebook. Switched to Hornady right then for carry ammo and ever since.. Thank you!!!
Thank you for sharing for that’s what is in my EDC and am very happy with these results for my needs.
penetration takes away from the energy transmitted to the target. Hydrostatic shock is what we are trying to transmit to the target. 9mm has always been a thru and thru round. Ideally a round that stops short in the target is transmitting 100% of the energy into the target. Great video, yes the 45 is ideal, the 9mm is lacking expansion. A very common tale.
The wound cavities in these kinds of jell do not adequately simulate the "permanent" would cavities in real tissue. How do I know? I saw it on another YT channel. But really, it's been argued that the permanent wounds in jell remain larger than they do in live tissue which tends to expand and then collapse.
Plain and simple y the 9 went completely through is Winchester made it tough to actually expand at 357mag velocity and the 9 just isn't enough cartridge to get expansion with that same design bullet where the 45performs like it's supposed to because it's designed to originally work at slower fps
The Winchester 32 auto silvertip was the best round in its day. A 32 was designed for the silvertip. Forgot the name of the gun but they had a 8 month wait period.
I saw the clouds against the foliage and something inside of me told me it was Florida. I don't know how I'm able to instantly recognize Florida with so little detail.
Silver tip is excellent. I have used all calibers,very 😊 happy!
Why anyone would carry the heaviest weight bullet is beyond me. Velocity helps a bullet expand, and that 147gr bullet acted like a full metal jacket, which is my point. Had you tested the 115gr Silvertip, you would have been impressed. That's the only bullet I carry for self defense in 9mm. I also carry Silvertips in 40 S&W and 45 ACP. Also, your testing was skewed by the high wind (IMO). And only one block of gel? You could have frozen a one gallon milk jug of water as a back-stop.
And then, ONE test- and you call it Trash? To each his own.
Now I see why they're priced so much lower than other JHPs. Don't cheap out on your self defense ammo.
I don’t think most people realize that the silvertip design is about 40 years old. It was the 115 grain version that the FBI used in 1986 in Miami and ultimately determined that it was a failure of a load. Personally I think the 115gr version does a better job, but there are far superior bullets out there than the silvertip. The 147gr version has NEVER expanded like anyone hoped for. It has NEVER been a performer and it’s no wonder that no police departments ever issue that round anymore in either 115 or 147gr. The only silvertip round that performs nicely is their 175gr 10mm. It penetrates 17-18”and expands to the diameter of a dime. 😊
The reason why the 115 grain silver tip failed in the Miami Dade incident was because of over expansion, shallow penetration. Penetration is what incapacitates. When this bullet failed, How do you then say that 115 gr silver tip does a better job, and that 147 is a poor performer. 147 is what most law enforcement uses in this country with a few exceptions like the NYPD.
@@nelsonr1467 reread it again son…. The 147 gr SILVERTIP is a failure of a performer. That’s what I said. I didn’t say ALL 147 grain bullets. I’m taking SILVERTIPS in that paragraph.
Focus son, stay with me now!
It looked to me like the 45 had some bounce back after it's forward momentum stopped. I use the gold dots in my 45 and the critical defense in 9mm. Can't seem to find any 9 gold dots in local stores right now.
Definitely low inventory in stores down here too for the gold dots. But yes, the 45 did bounce back
The 9 in my short Taurus g3c move too slow to expand....love them for the 10mm but not the 9.
Before you give up on Silver Tips, test this ammo in 115 grain 9mm.
I've never carried 147 grain 9mm hollow points for any reason and I never will. I know that there are some 147 grain 9mm bullet designs that perform well, but I'll never carry them. 115, 124 or 127 grain 9mm HP's is what I choose everytime.
Also, I'd hate for you to give up on Silver Tips with the rise of recent werewolf attacks. Lol.
Stay safe.
Will do. I've had a bunch of requests for the 115 grain. So I'll get that one going soon
@@andrewmconrad maybe use a few gallons jugs of water behind the ballistic gel, to possibly catch the projectile.
Typical results from old school ammunition it was hit or miss back then. I will stick with my 9mm HST 124 +p
What would you consider a great defense round?
Right now, the best round I have shot is the Speer gold dot hands down. There may be better ones out there, but from what I have done thus far it’s the Speer gold dot 124gr
Try Winchester white box 115 grain jhp
Good video, AC.
I have shot them in 9mm. I found they are not as accurate as other self defense rounds.
Have you reviewed the Winchester PDX? I have heard they are vastly superior to Silver tips.
I just bought some defender elite’s, but not the pox. I really want to find the Winchester rangers in 9, 40, 45 and 357 sig and test those out. I heard those are the best that Winchester has to offer
Great video! I have Winchester Silver Tips.Going to change them out. Looking for Liberty Civil Defense
I have been picking them up and plan to test them soon. Need some more gel
45 is king self-defense because you need more expansion in self-defense situations.
Lol some people say silver tips under penetrate but your tests show they over penetrate?
Is that silver stuff harmful barrel?
DUDE - it NEEDS more velocity to to expand. And you mentioned that the 45 had way more energy BUT you didnt give us any numbers to work with. Try giving us the specs from the box of ammo.
It's twice the bullet weight at only 50 fps less. It's obviously carrying much more energy.
Most people also wear clothing. Testing without even a tshirt or denim doesn’t give the full picture.
I just got some of these in .45 ACP 185gr. to compare with Winchetser 230gr. HP. I'm kinda looking for more velocity and more penetration so this was a plus to find out. What I need to find out are they as accurate since they are so much lighter. EDIT: Just fired y old Winchetser 230 gr HP and bullseye....Fired 5 Silvertips and the lightweight bullet is a no go. Hitting 6" low and 10" to the left. Glad I only bought 20 rounds.
Silvertips are not "TRASH". Your test methodology is.
can you test the 115 gr 9mm silver tips next pls
Sounds good. I'll get that one going in the near future
Speer gold dot is my carry
Works for me.
We want a bullet that will knock them to the floor but not go thru the wall of the house and cause damage to a neighbor.
and 147 gr 9mm always penetrates more than 16" inch's less speed more mass less expansion
Try putting cloth or denim in front for an actual realistic test.
Doesnt Winchester test the 147gr sivertip. It over penatrates / not good expansion. Shame on winchester fancy box shit...
I was also disappointed with the performance of Silvertips. Try Hst and gold dot bullets, I think you will have far superior results. I have found those bullets to be consistently Awesome. Thank You for the video hopefully you will save someone else from wasting good money on mediocre bullets.
Very disappointed. I did the gold dot vs the hst in the first gel video I did. Very good results from them.
Sir,you are off,my test were exceedingly every thing.
Another RUclips scientist
Eh, Tools got different results. I trust him more than the .45 shill here.
Happy National left handers day!
Wish you had a .40
I do! I haven't seen this in 40 though locally
115 9mm work great.
Put some denim in front
everyone uses two blocks come on man
147 9mm to heavy
I got these in .380 before knowing they aren’t good in .380 lol oh well
I've got some 9mm Silvertips from over 20 years ago. I heard they are made different from before, but don't know what was changed. Does anyone know?
Paul Harrell did a vid on Old vs. New check it out
@@gple87 cool, thanks
Looks like 13 inches from the entrance.
The 9mm 147 ST is analogous to the OSM, it is a 40 year old design. Do some more research before you embarrass yourself, again.😂
Well dude you're like 5 ft from the target f****** BB is going to go through😂😂😂😂
Makes sense