Side of klingons most people dont really know about. I do love star trek episodes that show more than just the warrior culture of the klingons and show they are much deeper race than one might assume
everytime you see a scene like this, you learn more about klingon society. for example, you can see just how sad kolos is that all young klingons wanted to do was fight, not realising that honor could be found in other places besides the battlefield. i do have to admit, i find the idea of a klingon schoolteacher somewhat...amusing though lol
There was a silly little Star Trek novel I remember liking called "A Flag full of Stars". Which was in its B plot all about that. A klingon who ends up a middle school teacher, on Earth.
What Star Trek as a whole likes to forget, is that all civilizations in it have to function like one. But the only real civilization in Star Trek has always been and will ever be the Human civilization. The others are just tropes and traits given form. There's a scene with the Vulcan Ambassador and that human Captain or so, where he basically says: "You Humans are the only species that have traits from every other species!". And that my friend is unbelievably terrible worldbuilding. This little scene is but a tiny glimpse into what the Klingons could be, if they weren't doomed to be the punching bag for eternity.
@@TurKlack Well to be slightly fair to that moment between Jonathan Archer and the Ambassador Soval, he's talking about how mercurial humans are, yes. Which is kind of silly. But the big point isn't that humans are the only ones with a depth. It was as he brought it around that Humanity reminds Vulcans too much of who Vulcans used to be before their cultural revolution of Logic. That they're very similar except for the fact that Vulcans consciously repress it due to near extinction of their species in nuclear fire. And in the series itself we see a lot of varied Vulcans (and a few Romulans pretending to be Vulcans) to lend credence to that depth. Just as we saw different kinds of Andorians. And different kinds of Xindi. And different kinds of Suliban. Enterprise was, itself, really good for breaking some of that up in a way that only really DS9 tried a little (with Bajorans and Cardassians).
I honestly felt this was one of the most important scenes in Star Trek history, and incredibly underrated. Why is it so important? Because we see here for ALMOST the first time, a glimpse into Klingon civilization which shows depth, and well, "humanity". Klingons are not all "warriors", or space pirates, or maurauders, or blood thirsty mindless grunts. Yes, they DO have a culture dominated by the military as has happened with certain human societies on earth, and they are are also more aggressive in nature than humans, vulcans and andorians, but you cannot thrive as a civilization if every member of said civilization is a brute warrior. They too have artists, scientists, politicians, philosophers, writers, etc. You can't be a successful species that created one of the largest galactic powers in the quadrant by being a PURELY barbaric warlike race which is often (if not always) how they're depicted. Their toughness, their population numbers (they populate a lot more than people realize), their aggressive demeanor, their strength, all have served them well, but that isn't enough to maintain a galactic empire, even if for most of its history it was highly decentralized and fragmented between the great houses. In Star Trek, which is mostly in space, we often see the Klingons in only ONE aspect, which is their military, and fair enough, you see their space ships interacting with the Federation which are mostly fighting ships, and you see their warriors who command these ships. But Klingons are as smart as we are and as complex as we are. I literally applauded when I watched this scene the first time.
In my head I always would think about the people who built the ships and got them to where they were. Some Klingon had to invent warp drive, the scanners and technology, etc. There had to be scientists and people who cleaned the halls just like everywhere else. I wish there was some more talk that delved into that but this is one of the better scenes that does show that.
Heitor Mello The friendship between Captain Johnathan Archer and his Klingon Advocate Kolos was always interesting, as Kolos has helped Captain Johnathan Archer and his crew on several occasions, including to help Archer try to get the Klingon's to join Humanity and their allies in their fight against the Romulans in the Earth/Romulan War during the final Battle of The Cheron System.
Archer's speech at the end saddens me because Worf's son Alexander tries to became that man: A courageous fellow who won't indulge in senseless violence but instead work to better the whole. And all it got him was his house dishonored and father killed.
@Redgrin grumble He's refering to the TNG episode where a future version of Alexander arrives on the enterprise, intending to avert his younger self from not becoming a warrior because it gets Wolf killed in the future. By the end of the episode that future doesnt happen
@@PoshBenjaminnot in the way you expect. In Star Trek Online Alexander does become a warrior but also tempered by the ideals of who his father served with. In the end though he gets tragically killed by house Torg leader in defense of his father. He used the name of his alternate self alias then. But he has gone to Stovokor and is survived by his step sister Koran and half brother ( who I can't remember what his name was).
KOLLOS has to be an ANCESTOR of Martok! That badassness has to lie in the family. Also same actor XD Also Archer is totaly 50% Klingon. He drinks that stuff like it was his second nature, not even SISKO did that! Among the best Klingon episodes existing in all of Trek. Only thing missing would have ben a new learnable song XD
Embracing militarism caused Klingon tech to stagnate over the next few generations, till they needed to enter a treaty with the Federation. It was Federation science and engineering that allowed them to avoid becoming a 3rd-rate husk of an empire at the mercy of the Romulans.
Klingons are one of the most misunderstood civilizations in the Star Trek lore, they are a warrior species but it seems that is more demeanor and culture, the scientists would find scientific problems to be the greatest battle of their lives and similar this lawyer sees the courtroom as a battlefield! But interesting how basically there are Klingons who bemoan the dominance of the military in Klingon society and how they've faltered, that would be recurring for the next century till they went back to their roots as an honorable people.
There's a TNG episode that also looked into this as well. It was the one with Crusher and she was working with some scientists, one was a Klingon woman and another a Frengi, who didn't seem to appreceate his people's reputation.
Say what you will about ENT, but this scene did flesh out (amongst other rare incidences in Trek) that show how corrupted and broken the Klingon Empire really is. The Undiscovered Country really runs this home and starts the trend of showing Klingons as more complex, more nuanced and ultimately more sophisticated than being a race of warriora bent on conquest. TNG sprinkled a few elements of this and by the time VOY and DS9 came about, the Klingons were relegated to this race of blood-thirsty idiots that were so bent on idealism and tradition that is perhaps did more harm than good. Although Ezri Dax did give and scathing, if not entirely objective and honest opinion to Worf about what she, as a former blood-tied host to the Empire, thought of said Empire and how the facade of honor ans duty was a barely perceptible veil, hiding a dying race of back-stabbing, power-hungry, crooked and barely legitimate political entity ruled by power crazy politicians and young warrior that were fed this idealised version of what Klingons thought they were from birth, despite the rest of the galaxy knowing that the Klingons were a joke and a shadow of their former self from the moment Praxis explodes in The Undiscovered Country....next gen era Trek is just this slow, gasping and dying entity of once proud and truely honourable people that descended into familal squabbles and like any lifeform thats dying, lashes out in a vain attempt to stave off the inevitable death, hence DS9 and their 2nd war with the Federation.
Imagine what the Klingon Empire looked like during its golden period before the Warrior Class set the empire back by hundreds of years, turning Klingons into brutes trying to kill one another for a seat at the high council. Thinking they can only achieve honor through battle, It took a Klingon like Worf who was incorruptible to embody what it meant to be Klingon.
1:23 This echos the sentiment of the fanbase who naively thought that because they never saw onscreen the other parts of the enemy nations societies they must all be what we see them represented as on screen. The klingons must all be barbaric, mongol, space, vikings. The Romulans must all be scheeming, manipulative, chess playing soldiers. The Cardassians must all be autocratic, narcissistic, fascist. Why? Because that's what we were shown on screen. That makes no logical sense for any society to completely be made up a particular type of person only. Yet... that's what people genuinely believed for longest time. I always found it amusing.
@@markdurl8341in the context of this clip Humans had never really known Klingons at all. Star Trek Enterprise is unique in its way of introducing the galaxy's other inhabitants because up until enterprise humans had only known Vulcans.
So, starting with 'Enterprise,' we see a sociological process take place in which Vulcans like Soval, T'Pol, T'Pau, and later Sarek and Spock, are around Humans enough to understand them and even become curious about them. Likewise, Humans by the 24th century seem to have become accustomed to and even perhaps influenced by prolonged close contact with Vulcans. 24th century Humans seem more emotionally-controlled, ethical, and in a state of cultivating our best qualities and working to master our less favorable ones. I really think the Vulcans probably greatly influenced us positively in that way and that's something in which they can take pride. Now, take Humans like Sisko, Picard, and Riker. They've been around Klingons and have dealt with them enough to have a similar familiarity with and curiosity about them. In the late 24th century, after the Dominion War and Borg Threat, Humans and Klingons have stabilized diplomatic relations such that each has a full embassy on their respective homeworlds. Being allies, having diplomatic relations, and the latter having been mostly positive for some time and also with a Klingon in Martok as Chancellor who's had pretty extensive experience with Humans that has been mostly positive, is it reasonable to assume we're at a point with one another similar to where Humans and Vulcans stood in Kirk's time? If so, is there a boom in Human tourism to Qo'Nos? Do the Ferengi help with that? Do Humans and Klingons visiting one another's worlds bring a Vulcan tour guide along to facilitate these more in-depth social relations? Do Klingons becoming fascinated with such Human things as Mixed Martial Arts, Pro Wrestling, 80s Action movies, Human military history, rugby, collegiate/Olympic wrestling, submission grappling, marksmanship competitions, and various types of racing? Do they find not all Human cuisine is bland such as sushi, rare steak, jerky from a dozen or more species of animal, pizza, Mexican food, haggis, etc? Do they come to enjoy outdoorsy things like camping, bow-hunting, fishing, and mountaineering? What kinds of things do Humans enjoy on Qo'Nos? Discuss!
No after Martok there are more wars between the Klingons and the Federation. The Hobus supernova changed the entire balance of the Beta Quadrant. Also Vulcans never stop fearing humans, as they learn more about us they fear us more. Klingons on the other hand as they learn more about Humans come to respect them more. In truth the more the other species learn about Humans the more they grow to understand why the Vulcans fear us. Of all the races in Star Trek the Ferengi understand Humans the best and are terrified of us, even more so than the Klingons or any other race. They realize that our "civilized" cultured behavior is merely a show, and when threatened or challenged we make even Klingons fear. Many of the races have come to realize Humans polite, peaceful ways are nothing more than a show to cover how very violent, and aggressive we are as a race. Where when pushed even the vaunted ideals of Star Fleet are abandoned to achieve victory. Humans even in the 26th century are still finding new enemies to wage war, though all of the early enemies, like the Klingons and Romulans are now part of a unified federation style government, Humans are still the least controlled emotionally, and there is always violence just under the surface. I believe that knowledge of how very violent and aggressive we really are is what makes Humans try to improve, and eliminate it from our society. Yet it is also one of the real strengths humans have. Because Humans will fight a lost cause where no other race except the Klingons will. As for Human, Klingon cultural exchanges Klingons love prune juice, call it a warriors drink. They also come to love much of our wild foods, and realize they have more in common with humans than any other race. This leads to a lasting peace, and many shared food dishes, and tourism, but not before a couple more wars in the late late 24th and 25th centuries. In the star trek series shows they happen after Picard but while many characters in DS9, Voyager, and TNG are still alive though older. Since CBS is now saying the STO timeline is semi cannon.
@@VadulTharys Hah, I believe humans are one of the few species to purposefully eat food that is still moving, much like the Klingon, though perhaps the Klingon tourists might find San-nakji too mild in flavour.
The distances between the two homeworlds would mean that tourism would be rather limited. It is expensive to move around the stars, and most warp capable ships do not travel nearly as fast as the flagships of the Federation does. It would be interesting to see if there's anything like a space version of a trans-Atlantic cruise ships for ferrying people between major planetary systems, but most likely any Klingon arriving on Earth is here for business, war, training, or studies.
@@matasa7463 Considering that the Federation is specifically said to be a post-scarcity society, its not that expensive. Colonies by various species are being up all the time and while those colonies might be for mining or agriculture, the Federation is still a society that seeks to culturally enrich itself. So who knows, maybe there are extensive exchange programs.
Chancellor Gorkon thought the same when he brought "Kronos One" after the destruction of Praxis to the Federation to broker a peace deal. There were those on both sides that still wanted the old "warring ways" like General Chang, Admiral Cartwright, and Colonel West. But Kirk thwarted the plot and with the help of Gorkon's daughter Azetbur, the Khitomer Accords were signed. And with it's ups and downs, the Klingons would eventually join the Federation sometime in the 25th Century (possibly after the horrible events of the Iconian War, where the Federation, Romulan, and Klingon Empire suffered massive casualties).
Hertzler here gives another fine performance as a different Klingon character from Martok. Yet one whom in his own way and occupation still has his sense of honour and tries to be one, an honourable man of principals and integrity.
J.G. Hertzler is one of my favorite actors in Star Trek. DS9 is the best place to find the Apex alien actors, from Hertzler to Shimmerman, to Robinson, and Coombs! And I absolutely love it whenever he appears on screen.
Michael Ansara, William Campbell, and John Colicos were the first to show us what a Klingon was. They set the metric by which all Klingons since have been measured, and returned to these roles with aplomb on DS9. But if anyone has truly picked up and carried the torch they first lit, it is J.G. Hertzler. From the mannerisms, to the voice, he embodies the best characteristics you’d expect to see in a Klingon who is the embodiment of honor, duty, and a warrior’s heart, but with that tinge of world-weariness common in someone who’s seen and done more than the average person.
It is due to the long life of the Klingons, the more time passes the more desperate they become for recognition and glory, that is why a Warrior Society becomes corrupted, also due to its own Biology, remember that Darok told Kor that compared to He, the rest are children, including Martok, reaffirming the theme of Age in the Klingons and how most Generations need this search for Glory and Recognition quickly to begin to despair
Mmm, wouldn't count it as my favorite I don't think, but very underated, it's first two seasons had some rough episodes, and I think a lot of fans struggled to get past that, which seems unfair cause tng's first two seasons were almost entirely rough episodes and it's one of the most beloved generally. Perhaps it really was just franchise fatigue, though there are currently 5 new treks coming out, more then ever in the 90's and 2000's run and I'd definitely not say my favorites of them are the first of them, so I don't fully understand why or when the phenomena takes hold.
@hlynnkeith9334 oh of course, apologies if I came off as condescending, I still quite like Enterprise and can completely get why it would be your fav and I have multiple metrics I would give it the win in, but a few ones I tend to be most swayed by makes me lean to my fave which does happen to be ds9 lol. But my main point is that I think it's a little unfair how little chances fans who didn't love the first couple seasons gave the later ones, seeing as all three of the 90's shows had a rough start, tos was really the only star trek that started stronger then it ended. Plus while early ent had some rough eps at least they didn't tend to be boring (a Night in Sick Bay is a fever dream but not a boring one lol) and a lot of ds9's misses are real sluggers. (Move Along Home is somehow a boring fever dream lol)
DS9 shows that the Klingon warrior class had successfully rewrote their history books to state their once progressive and democratic society was instead a nightmarish period called the Dark Ages. The Klingons didn't like it when Dax told them it was actually really nice.
Not exactly, but I would love a time travel episode which doesn't ONLY go into Earth's past. TOS nearly had an episode like it, but I would love to see, for example, Medieval Klingons or even Vulcans
It would be many centuries until Worf, son of Mogh, fought against political corruption and a new era began for its people under Martok, a commoner from the lowlands.
Funny how everyone focused on the klingon aspect of it, but it's the "a few courageous people realized they could make a difference" that seems really problematic to me. Courage is usually what makes wars worse. And global wars aren't just fought by warriors. They are fought by industrialized countries. There would be no warrior society among the Klingons without a heavily industrialized society. I would have liked to know more about the military industrial klingon complex that is so eager to send young klingons to their death, instead of vague generalities on honor and courage.
After this great portrayal that elevated the lore of the Klingons, it's hard to believe the next iteration of Klingons we got to see were the abomination that came out of Discovery 🤮
You could write a multi season romp through just this ilttle backstory & have it be pretty bloody good. The transformation of Klingon society into what has been the classic depiction of them since forever. It'd be neat to show not only that they weren't always like that, but also not even that long ago. Hmmh, funny how life & art imitate wach other.
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“What honor is there in victory over a weaker opponent?” One of the best lines ever spoken by a Klingon in all of Trek.
J.G. Hertzler just has the right voice for an old klingon. Whether a scholar or soldier, his iconic voice adds an air of grizzled weariness.
Love the guy who plays Martok.... always a great klingon
ultramaximus
3 weeks ago He played three Klingons total, including a Vulcan, and also a Hirogen.
Side of klingons most people dont really know about. I do love star trek episodes that show more than just the warrior culture of the klingons and show they are much deeper race than one might assume
Feng Lei
6 months ago Agreed.
This is kind of obvious. A race that has only warriors could never develop space travel or even iron tools.
i wished paramount whould do a klingon focused show, where they show more of the culture above beeing a warrior.
everytime you see a scene like this, you learn more about klingon society. for example, you can see just how sad kolos is that all young klingons wanted to do was fight, not realising that honor could be found in other places besides the battlefield. i do have to admit, i find the idea of a klingon schoolteacher somewhat...amusing though lol
Not handing in your homework on time will bring great dishonour to your house
There was a silly little Star Trek novel I remember liking called "A Flag full of Stars". Which was in its B plot all about that. A klingon who ends up a middle school teacher, on Earth.
@@hitomisalazar4073 The greatest test for a Klingon
What Star Trek as a whole likes to forget, is that all civilizations in it have to function like one. But the only real civilization in Star Trek has always been and will ever be the Human civilization. The others are just tropes and traits given form. There's a scene with the Vulcan Ambassador and that human Captain or so, where he basically says: "You Humans are the only species that have traits from every other species!". And that my friend is unbelievably terrible worldbuilding.
This little scene is but a tiny glimpse into what the Klingons could be, if they weren't doomed to be the punching bag for eternity.
@@TurKlack Well to be slightly fair to that moment between Jonathan Archer and the Ambassador Soval, he's talking about how mercurial humans are, yes. Which is kind of silly. But the big point isn't that humans are the only ones with a depth. It was as he brought it around that Humanity reminds Vulcans too much of who Vulcans used to be before their cultural revolution of Logic. That they're very similar except for the fact that Vulcans consciously repress it due to near extinction of their species in nuclear fire.
And in the series itself we see a lot of varied Vulcans (and a few Romulans pretending to be Vulcans) to lend credence to that depth.
Just as we saw different kinds of Andorians. And different kinds of Xindi. And different kinds of Suliban. Enterprise was, itself, really good for breaking some of that up in a way that only really DS9 tried a little (with Bajorans and Cardassians).
It was nice to hear Martok's voice again! Great actor!
I honestly felt this was one of the most important scenes in Star Trek history, and incredibly underrated. Why is it so important? Because we see here for ALMOST the first time, a glimpse into Klingon civilization which shows depth, and well, "humanity". Klingons are not all "warriors", or space pirates, or maurauders, or blood thirsty mindless grunts. Yes, they DO have a culture dominated by the military as has happened with certain human societies on earth, and they are are also more aggressive in nature than humans, vulcans and andorians, but you cannot thrive as a civilization if every member of said civilization is a brute warrior. They too have artists, scientists, politicians, philosophers, writers, etc. You can't be a successful species that created one of the largest galactic powers in the quadrant by being a PURELY barbaric warlike race which is often (if not always) how they're depicted. Their toughness, their population numbers (they populate a lot more than people realize), their aggressive demeanor, their strength, all have served them well, but that isn't enough to maintain a galactic empire, even if for most of its history it was highly decentralized and fragmented between the great houses. In Star Trek, which is mostly in space, we often see the Klingons in only ONE aspect, which is their military, and fair enough, you see their space ships interacting with the Federation which are mostly fighting ships, and you see their warriors who command these ships. But Klingons are as smart as we are and as complex as we are. I literally applauded when I watched this scene the first time.
In my head I always would think about the people who built the ships and got them to where they were. Some Klingon had to invent warp drive, the scanners and technology, etc. There had to be scientists and people who cleaned the halls just like everywhere else. I wish there was some more talk that delved into that but this is one of the better scenes that does show that.
Heitor Mello The friendship between Captain Johnathan Archer and his Klingon Advocate Kolos was always interesting, as Kolos has helped Captain Johnathan Archer and his crew on several occasions, including to help Archer try to get the Klingon's to join Humanity and their allies in their fight against the Romulans in the Earth/Romulan War during the final Battle of The Cheron System.
Archer's speech at the end saddens me because Worf's son Alexander tries to became that man: A courageous fellow who won't indulge in senseless violence but instead work to better the whole. And all it got him was his house dishonored and father killed.
@Redgrin grumble He's refering to the TNG episode where a future version of Alexander arrives on the enterprise, intending to avert his younger self from not becoming a warrior because it gets Wolf killed in the future. By the end of the episode that future doesnt happen
@@PoshBenjaminnot in the way you expect. In Star Trek Online Alexander does become a warrior but also tempered by the ideals of who his father served with. In the end though he gets tragically killed by house Torg leader in defense of his father. He used the name of his alternate self alias then. But he has gone to Stovokor and is survived by his step sister Koran and half brother ( who I can't remember what his name was).
KOLLOS has to be an ANCESTOR of Martok! That badassness has to lie in the family. Also same actor XD
Also Archer is totaly 50% Klingon. He drinks that stuff like it was his second nature, not even SISKO did that!
Among the best Klingon episodes existing in all of Trek. Only thing missing would have ben a new learnable song XD
Embracing militarism caused Klingon tech to stagnate over the next few generations, till they needed to enter a treaty with the Federation. It was Federation science and engineering that allowed them to avoid becoming a 3rd-rate husk of an empire at the mercy of the Romulans.
Klingons are one of the most misunderstood civilizations in the Star Trek lore, they are a warrior species but it seems that is more demeanor and culture, the scientists would find scientific problems to be the greatest battle of their lives and similar this lawyer sees the courtroom as a battlefield! But interesting how basically there are Klingons who bemoan the dominance of the military in Klingon society and how they've faltered, that would be recurring for the next century till they went back to their roots as an honorable people.
There's a TNG episode that also looked into this as well. It was the one with Crusher and she was working with some scientists, one was a Klingon woman and another a Frengi, who didn't seem to appreceate his people's reputation.
Easily my favorite Star Trek race. If I could choose to live as any race in Trek it would be Klingon no doubt!
I wonder how those other Klingons feels about conquering and enslaving other species.
Say what you will about ENT, but this scene did flesh out (amongst other rare incidences in Trek) that show how corrupted and broken the Klingon Empire really is. The Undiscovered Country really runs this home and starts the trend of showing Klingons as more complex, more nuanced and ultimately more sophisticated than being a race of warriora bent on conquest. TNG sprinkled a few elements of this and by the time VOY and DS9 came about, the Klingons were relegated to this race of blood-thirsty idiots that were so bent on idealism and tradition that is perhaps did more harm than good.
Although Ezri Dax did give and scathing, if not entirely objective and honest opinion to Worf about what she, as a former blood-tied host to the Empire, thought of said Empire and how the facade of honor ans duty was a barely perceptible veil, hiding a dying race of back-stabbing, power-hungry, crooked and barely legitimate political entity ruled by power crazy politicians and young warrior that were fed this idealised version of what Klingons thought they were from birth, despite the rest of the galaxy knowing that the Klingons were a joke and a shadow of their former self from the moment Praxis explodes in The Undiscovered Country....next gen era Trek is just this slow, gasping and dying entity of once proud and truely honourable people that descended into familal squabbles and like any lifeform thats dying, lashes out in a vain attempt to stave off the inevitable death, hence DS9 and their 2nd war with the Federation.
Lt. Worf could easily applaud this speech: he was always a warrior, but also, always a protector of the weak
Imagine what the Klingon Empire looked like during its golden period before the Warrior Class set the empire back by hundreds of years, turning Klingons into brutes trying to kill one another for a seat at the high council. Thinking they can only achieve honor through battle, It took a Klingon like Worf who was incorruptible to embody what it meant to be Klingon.
1:23 This echos the sentiment of the fanbase who naively thought that because they never saw onscreen the other parts of the enemy nations societies they must all be what we see them represented as on screen. The klingons must all be barbaric, mongol, space, vikings. The Romulans must all be scheeming, manipulative, chess playing soldiers. The Cardassians must all be autocratic, narcissistic, fascist. Why? Because that's what we were shown on screen. That makes no logical sense for any society to completely be made up a particular type of person only. Yet... that's what people genuinely believed for longest time. I always found it amusing.
actually ive seen the good and the bad in each of those cultures.
@@markdurl8341in the context of this clip Humans had never really known Klingons at all.
Star Trek Enterprise is unique in its way of introducing the galaxy's other inhabitants because up until enterprise humans had only known Vulcans.
You cant say it that way, ITS Like you say the Germans 1943 " WE Just saw what they showed us" Not all are Bad. Nazis are all Bad.
So, starting with 'Enterprise,' we see a sociological process take place in which Vulcans like Soval, T'Pol, T'Pau, and later Sarek and Spock, are around Humans enough to understand them and even become curious about them. Likewise, Humans by the 24th century seem to have become accustomed to and even perhaps influenced by prolonged close contact with Vulcans. 24th century Humans seem more emotionally-controlled, ethical, and in a state of cultivating our best qualities and working to master our less favorable ones. I really think the Vulcans probably greatly influenced us positively in that way and that's something in which they can take pride.
Now, take Humans like Sisko, Picard, and Riker. They've been around Klingons and have dealt with them enough to have a similar familiarity with and curiosity about them. In the late 24th century, after the Dominion War and Borg Threat, Humans and Klingons have stabilized diplomatic relations such that each has a full embassy on their respective homeworlds. Being allies, having diplomatic relations, and the latter having been mostly positive for some time and also with a Klingon in Martok as Chancellor who's had pretty extensive experience with Humans that has been mostly positive, is it reasonable to assume we're at a point with one another similar to where Humans and Vulcans stood in Kirk's time?
If so, is there a boom in Human tourism to Qo'Nos? Do the Ferengi help with that? Do Humans and Klingons visiting one another's worlds bring a Vulcan tour guide along to facilitate these more in-depth social relations? Do Klingons becoming fascinated with such Human things as Mixed Martial Arts, Pro Wrestling, 80s Action movies, Human military history, rugby, collegiate/Olympic wrestling, submission grappling, marksmanship competitions, and various types of racing? Do they find not all Human cuisine is bland such as sushi, rare steak, jerky from a dozen or more species of animal, pizza, Mexican food, haggis, etc? Do they come to enjoy outdoorsy things like camping, bow-hunting, fishing, and mountaineering?
What kinds of things do Humans enjoy on Qo'Nos?
Discuss!
No after Martok there are more wars between the Klingons and the Federation. The Hobus supernova changed the entire balance of the Beta Quadrant. Also Vulcans never stop fearing humans, as they learn more about us they fear us more. Klingons on the other hand as they learn more about Humans come to respect them more. In truth the more the other species learn about Humans the more they grow to understand why the Vulcans fear us. Of all the races in Star Trek the Ferengi understand Humans the best and are terrified of us, even more so than the Klingons or any other race. They realize that our "civilized" cultured behavior is merely a show, and when threatened or challenged we make even Klingons fear. Many of the races have come to realize Humans polite, peaceful ways are nothing more than a show to cover how very violent, and aggressive we are as a race. Where when pushed even the vaunted ideals of Star Fleet are abandoned to achieve victory. Humans even in the 26th century are still finding new enemies to wage war, though all of the early enemies, like the Klingons and Romulans are now part of a unified federation style government, Humans are still the least controlled emotionally, and there is always violence just under the surface. I believe that knowledge of how very violent and aggressive we really are is what makes Humans try to improve, and eliminate it from our society. Yet it is also one of the real strengths humans have. Because Humans will fight a lost cause where no other race except the Klingons will.
As for Human, Klingon cultural exchanges Klingons love prune juice, call it a warriors drink. They also come to love much of our wild foods, and realize they have more in common with humans than any other race. This leads to a lasting peace, and many shared food dishes, and tourism, but not before a couple more wars in the late late 24th and 25th centuries. In the star trek series shows they happen after Picard but while many characters in DS9, Voyager, and TNG are still alive though older. Since CBS is now saying the STO timeline is semi cannon.
@@VadulTharys Hah, I believe humans are one of the few species to purposefully eat food that is still moving, much like the Klingon, though perhaps the Klingon tourists might find San-nakji too mild in flavour.
The distances between the two homeworlds would mean that tourism would be rather limited. It is expensive to move around the stars, and most warp capable ships do not travel nearly as fast as the flagships of the Federation does. It would be interesting to see if there's anything like a space version of a trans-Atlantic cruise ships for ferrying people between major planetary systems, but most likely any Klingon arriving on Earth is here for business, war, training, or studies.
I would enjoy hunting..
@@matasa7463 Considering that the Federation is specifically said to be a post-scarcity society, its not that expensive. Colonies by various species are being up all the time and while those colonies might be for mining or agriculture, the Federation is still a society that seeks to culturally enrich itself. So who knows, maybe there are extensive exchange programs.
Chancellor Gorkon thought the same when he brought "Kronos One" after the destruction of Praxis to the Federation to broker a peace deal. There were those on both sides that still wanted the old "warring ways" like General Chang, Admiral Cartwright, and Colonel West. But Kirk thwarted the plot and with the help of Gorkon's daughter Azetbur, the Khitomer Accords were signed. And with it's ups and downs, the Klingons would eventually join the Federation sometime in the 25th Century (possibly after the horrible events of the Iconian War, where the Federation, Romulan, and Klingon Empire suffered massive casualties).
All lawyers should come with high-end liquor
Hertzler here gives another fine performance as a different Klingon character from
Martok. Yet one whom in his own way and occupation still has his sense of honour and tries to be one, an honourable man of principals and integrity.
J.G. Hertzler is one of my favorite actors in Star Trek. DS9 is the best place to find the Apex alien actors, from Hertzler to Shimmerman, to Robinson, and Coombs! And I absolutely love it whenever he appears on screen.
Omg Martok!!!! Or his family lol. Dude was one of the most badass Klingon’s ever. So glad DS9 kept him.
Michael Ansara, William Campbell, and John Colicos were the first to show us what a Klingon was. They set the metric by which all Klingons since have been measured, and returned to these roles with aplomb on DS9. But if anyone has truly picked up and carried the torch they first lit, it is J.G. Hertzler. From the mannerisms, to the voice, he embodies the best characteristics you’d expect to see in a Klingon who is the embodiment of honor, duty, and a warrior’s heart, but with that tinge of world-weariness common in someone who’s seen and done more than the average person.
Im curious now on how klingon law professors conduct class recitations
It is due to the long life of the Klingons, the more time passes the more desperate they become for recognition and glory, that is why a Warrior Society becomes corrupted, also due to its own Biology, remember that Darok told Kor that compared to He, the rest are children, including Martok, reaffirming the theme of Age in the Klingons and how most Generations need this search for Glory and Recognition quickly to begin to despair
That would explain the current Senate...
Enterprise was a great show. Maybe the best of the Star Trek franchise.
May it live valiantly in our stories.
It had some petty good episodes
Mmm, wouldn't count it as my favorite I don't think, but very underated, it's first two seasons had some rough episodes, and I think a lot of fans struggled to get past that, which seems unfair cause tng's first two seasons were almost entirely rough episodes and it's one of the most beloved generally. Perhaps it really was just franchise fatigue, though there are currently 5 new treks coming out, more then ever in the 90's and 2000's run and I'd definitely not say my favorites of them are the first of them, so I don't fully understand why or when the phenomena takes hold.
@@vamp_bat_chomp "wouldn't count it as my favorite"
That is your choice. For me, Enterprise beats DS9 by a nose.
@hlynnkeith9334 oh of course, apologies if I came off as condescending, I still quite like Enterprise and can completely get why it would be your fav and I have multiple metrics I would give it the win in, but a few ones I tend to be most swayed by makes me lean to my fave which does happen to be ds9 lol. But my main point is that I think it's a little unfair how little chances fans who didn't love the first couple seasons gave the later ones, seeing as all three of the 90's shows had a rough start, tos was really the only star trek that started stronger then it ended. Plus while early ent had some rough eps at least they didn't tend to be boring (a Night in Sick Bay is a fever dream but not a boring one lol) and a lot of ds9's misses are real sluggers. (Move Along Home is somehow a boring fever dream lol)
Martok's ancestor... May not be in lore but J.G. Hertzler plays Kolos...
I just noticed that the Klingon defending Archer was Martok, took me a while to recognize him the same was for Shran who was WAYLOON in DS9
You mean Weyoun (unless you meant that as a humorous misspelling).
Glad to see his other eye
It is about time that a few curagious people realize, they can make a difference.
When under attack a society tends to do that, afterwards most go back to their gardens.
Is there any more information on the time he's talking about?
Quite a bit, and it is something they were moving towards before the new series came along needing them to be once again mindless warriors.
DS9 shows that the Klingon warrior class had successfully rewrote their history books to state their once progressive and democratic society was instead a nightmarish period called the Dark Ages. The Klingons didn't like it when Dax told them it was actually really nice.
I would love to see a sci-fi drama of Klingon society that's just like normal ppl and not all the warriors lol. I feel like it'd be fun
There was the fat Klingon who ran a restaurant on DS9.
Rurapente:The alien’s graveyard.
am i the only one who wants a klingon series in the 21. and 22. century?
Not exactly, but I would love a time travel episode which doesn't ONLY go into Earth's past. TOS nearly had an episode like it, but I would love to see, for example, Medieval Klingons or even Vulcans
What changed?
It was literally just the Vulcans
Name of episode please.
That's J G HERTZLER
Two tired men sharing stories over a bottle of hootch will never not be a mood
so this Klingon advocate could be Martok’s ancestor, nice 😊
Interesting this talk happens before the first Klingon-Federation War.
kronos delivers a powerful speech that lands him in the same place that the defendant.
unavailable here, can you upload it you think?
Old school klingon
Ah yes, the Klingon culture death. Such a fascinating topic.
It would be many centuries until Worf, son of Mogh, fought against political corruption and a new era began for its people under Martok, a commoner from the lowlands.
So, what's rarer, a Klingon pacifist or a Ferengi communist?
Both those things a relatively rare in humans as well, if not as extremely rare
ruclips.net/video/Qag2bOBUVfQ/видео.html
Funny how everyone focused on the klingon aspect of it, but it's the "a few courageous people realized they could make a difference" that seems really problematic to me. Courage is usually what makes wars worse. And global wars aren't just fought by warriors. They are fought by industrialized countries. There would be no warrior society among the Klingons without a heavily industrialized society. I would have liked to know more about the military industrial klingon complex that is so eager to send young klingons to their death, instead of vague generalities on honor and courage.
You're overthinking this
J.G. Hertzler
Picture the Klingons in Discovery season 4: a spiritual people fighting their worst instincts.
This is the unfortunate Star Trek series, it had potential, but flubbed the execution. Just as it was finally finding it's footing, it was cancelled.
This shows just how long the Klingon Empire has been in decline.
MARTOK!!!
Captain Archer is the ultimate badass 👌🏽😀
Martok the White?
After this great portrayal that elevated the lore of the Klingons, it's hard to believe the next iteration of Klingons we got to see were the abomination that came out of Discovery 🤮
You could write a multi season romp through just this ilttle backstory & have it be pretty bloody good.
The transformation of Klingon society into what has been the classic depiction of them since forever.
It'd be neat to show not only that they weren't always like that, but also not even that long ago.
Hmmh, funny how life & art imitate wach other.