A Catholic Reacts to Ghost
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- Опубликовано: 17 мар 2022
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Music provided by Paul Jernberg. Find out more about his work as a composer here: pauljernberg.com
Podcast Version: brianholdsworth.libsyn.com/
I feel the need to start by establishing my own bona fide as someone who has something to say on this topic because I, personally resent it, when people get on a soapbox and criticize phenomena that they don’t know very much about. I’ve said this about Catholic and Christian critics of Harry Potter in the past especially when it’s obvious that they have never read the books. In the case of bands and music like what Ghost offers, I can say that this is something I was heavily immersed in prior to my conversion to Christianity and then Catholicism. I don’t listen to music like that any more for, what I hope will be, obvious reasons, but I have enough experience to draw on to be able to sympathize with those who still do listen to this kind of music. One thing I noticed, when I was an enthusiast of heavy music was that there were two kinds of fans. There were those who liked the aggressive scene and the opportunity to get wasted and bang their heads and act disruptive to others and themselves. And then there were people who took the music and the art seriously.
I was the latter. I didn’t just casually listen to bands like Iron Maiden and Metallica, and by Metallica, I don’t mean the rocktallica phase… I mean the metal-lica phase of that band. I consumed every last drop of what they were offering. I bought all their albums, I went to their concerts, and I took it seriously.
#Ghost, if you’re unfamiliar with them, are an emerging Swedish #metal group descended from a long line of black Scandinavian metal. The term black, here is usually meant to denote the sinister character or persona that the band portrays in their lyrics, musical style, and stage presence.
It’s characterized by depictions of #satanism, evil, and a fixation on the demonic or whatever personification of evil you can conceive of. In the case of Ghost, though, they offer a slight variation, in that their music is catchier, more melodic, and, you could say, fun. It’s the kind of music you could dance to, at times, which is what rock and roll was invented for. And as someone who will, probably, always have an appreciation for various forms of heavy music, I can say that I can enjoy their sound. It’s original, it’s complex enough not to be boring, it’s well played - the band members are gifted musicians, and their stage presence is the kind of thing that will keep your attention. If I was an unthinking person, motivated purely by my passions, I would probably listen to them because I could easily enjoy their music. But we aren’t unthinking - our intellect and our reason is what makes us unique from all other life on this planet. We are able to make judgements about actions that can even help us forecast the potential effects of our choices. And that is why it is our intellect that should govern our choices, not our desires. If we were to predominantly rely on our desires, than we would be nothing more than animals. So, let me try to invite you to use your intellect to assess the role that a band like Ghost and the subculture that they perpetuate might have on you and your life.
love how there's a crusader helmet just casually chilling in the background
If you catch up on their lore, you'll see that everything about it is humorous. He's mocking Satanism just as much as he's mocking Catholicism, and it's all hilarious. Whenever a Papa dies and is immediately replaced in a live show, or when Copia wrecks his tricycle, none of it is supposed to be taken seriously. They're an awesome band with a dash of great satire. Coming from someone whom grew up Catholic, but is now agnostic.
one of the devil's greatest tricks is to convince you that he doesn't exist.
@@Straitsfan lol
Cardinal Copia crashing his tricycle will never not be funny.
Brian : I am kinda rusty and this music is kinda hard
Also Brian : Plays master of puppets
If I’m not mistaken, wasn’t he down picking too? Just like Hetfield
You Can't Kill The Metal!
ruclips.net/video/qR7U1HIhxfA/видео.html
He can’t play leads for shit though 😂
Brian: Now I am going to tell you a story of poor catholic minority, misunderstood and persecuted.
Also Brian: His church is built on a grave of first nation babies.
@@gg829 Ridiculous. Get out of here with your "first nation" bs.
As a Catholic, I love Ghost.
And to answer your question on what is Tobias' real intention/s on Ghost's theme?
Answer: to entertain people.
I'm an atheist and agree. It's cartoonish. Just a nod to hardrock and heavy metal history.
He's a satanist the same way a horror film director is a serial killer..
Fellow Catholic here, and I agree 💯💯💯💯
And to sell t-shirts.
But how do you justify Catholics being entertained by santanic rituals, lyrics that directly venerate Satan, and costumes that mock our clergy?
@@OrthoLou like I said, it's entertainment and they don't do satanic rituals (which by the way us catholics invented). And how can you justify our Catholic rituals? What makes you think that every catholic rite is good?
And if you are spiritually rattled by a rock/metal band then your faith is weak.
All fair comment here. Listened to a couple of Forges interviews with Livewire...he is not an atheist and thinks "you're being lied to" when it comes to the traditional faith system. He believes in and has experienced "a presence" in which he believes. He's an articulate and plausible character.
He's an non-theistic satanist.
I NEVER thought I'd see Brian Holdsworth play some Metallica riffs 😂.
Thats what i like to see from my Catholic channel's 😎
@@joedwyer3297 it's a good thing he included a disclaimer to say he is not playing to perform or show off. That gets him completely off the hook. But saying he's out of practice... ;-)
Every metal head have a dark side.
@@AlDunbar: Yeah, when he did that (saying he was out of practice) I thought to myself, "Brian, Brian, you're such a unique guy! Don't be a cliche! Don't say exactly the same thing that I and every other frustrated amateur musician says right before playing something for other people!"
But of course we all do it, because we're all insecure about our playing, whether we have reason to be, or not.
@@cw-on-yt I don't say I'm out of practice. I just say I'm not very good lol
interesting read, the comment section here. Coming from a Ghost fan.
For someone who was “substantially immersed in metal” you have no idea about what black metal is or where it comes from. Ghost is nowhere near a black metal band. They do take influence from black metal, but musically or ideologically they’re very far from it.
Yea they are more doom-metal.
I dont know if he actually listened to any Swedish black-metal.
Glad someone said this, lol
Exactly, they're more theatrical metal with some gloom. Not even all that metal for many songs.
Oh very opionated. Suits your personality type.
Huh??? Their lyrics are pure black metal. He literally says they are very pop/dance oriented in their music at the start of this video.
As a Ghost fan and someone who has been to their concerts, Ghosts music is just all fun. Fun to listen to, and a lot of fun to play.
I used to love them but...they're not likeSl Slayer, who portrays satanic stuff as scary and something we want to avoid, while Ghost makes seem charming and alluring. That's why I think they're dangerous, they make satanism seem appealing.
@@OrthoLou and...? That's exactly what christianism does with the Bible. God is love? Really? Listening so much about God makes me wanna hear about his "so evil" enemy.
@@augustomatt ot vs nt
@@augustomattProve God doesn't exist.
@@augustomattThe difference is that one is cool because it is aluring, and the other is intriguing because it is evil
I am a ghost fan, but find the discussion very interesting. Thanks.
Honestly Brian I would love to hear your opinion on a band called Demon Hunter. They are a great band that affirms Christian beliefs in their songs but is not preachy about it. They are one of the best Christian metal bands I have ever heard
You may enjoy Impending Doom as well. Another great Christian metal band.
I'm a fellow Demon Hunter appreciator
Living Sacrifice, Mortification, War of Ages, and For All Eternity are other Christian metal bands. Check them out, they are awesome!
And I suspect that Ryan Clark is Catholic.
@@duchstitneho In the Dead Flowers lyric video there's a rosary, so I guess one or more of them are? :)
Can we give a shout out to Wytch Hazel? If you haven't heard this band, they're good. I'm not sure if the lead is catholic, but their lyrics cleverly depict the spiritual battle we're in, inviting to the winning side.
You didn’t just call christians a “minority” did you?
He also claims Ghost basically mocking Catholics is racist, so...... LOL
yeah right?? i mean he made some interesting points here and there but at the end.. i was like?? you know christianity is THE biggest religion? that is literally KNOWN for its missionaries?
@@danimal097521 My favourite bit was about the persecution of Christians in Spain, like the Inquisition never happened...
@@lisam22 LOLOLOL Right? Far to many Christians....like the guy who made this video....like to pick and choose far to much about which parts of the religion they want to talk about and which parts they want to ignore. It's a huge reason why I never became religious.
@@lisam22 you're extremely misinformed about the inquisition. You should do your own research, Brian actually has a good video on it.
And even if Christians did persecute others at some point in history, do two wrongs make a right?
The transition from Brian’s guitar into chants is awesome
Hi Brian.. I feel the same about the subject ..was very much into Canada's own Rush..May occasionally listen to rock music..because of my teenage life. Like your video on classical music..this is my preferred music..especially schubert ave maria...
Here's my take on Ghost. The reason why i feel they're great at tap dancing around satanical themes is because it's just a story.
Just because billions of people around the world have enacted a religious following behind the story, doesn't will it into existence, but because people believe to be, they resent when it's challenged. Ghost have mastered the art of Mockery while at the same time showing you just how foolish it is to believe in something without seeing it for what it truly is. A story
So Ghost is just mocking Satanism..?
@@OrthoLou it’s mocking organized religion in general.
@@OrthoLou Yes. Isn't it obvious?
Yes. Religion is a story, so it’s no big deal to take interest in either side of the story. Beautifully said.
Very interesting to watch people comment about this subject
What are your thoughts on Christian metal and rock? I find the lyrics and the aggressive sound very helpful to deal with stress, temptation and giving me strength to fight against temptation and hard times while preaching in a way at the same time. Red, war of ages, wolves at the gate are some great bands.
I agree with this. We as Christian can't always listen to super soft and calming music in times when we need strength and anger against sin to prevail against it. I think angry music that's angry about the right stuff can certainly be edifying.
@@CGMiller thanks completely agree too. If we are fighting and struggling against temptation, the devil or hard times we need that aggressive power to fight back.
Of itself, it is a great idea, however, I found too little that really qualifies. I do love Phil Keaggy tho.
I can see the points being made here but they're not made from a full understanding of the intent that Forge has given. And never have I seen where Forge said that he is mocking Catholics. He simply likes the aesthetics of it. Forge has stated he is a fan of horror films. Particularly classic horror films. This comes off in a lot of his music videos and artwork on the Ghost albums. This fuses with a concept of a "Satanic pope"and church. He has said before that the Catholic art and style is very grand and powerful feeling, so it's something he took visual inspiration from. But those things are not intended to mock, it's simply how his creativity is expressed. Also, what evidence is there besides a passing statement from another band member that he is involved in Freemasonry? Do you know the personality of his old band mates and what they were like? Do you understand the context of their words and comprehend their humorous undertones? Do you actually know what Freemasonry is and what they believe in? Where did you gain that knowledge? Do you know any freemasons?
Lots of assumptions made in his commentary. If that’s how he feels that’s okay. But to preach to others their soul will be lost for tongue in cheek theatre is kinda silly.
@@Codyeye Exactly.
So.....
Ghost is my fav band. And I have heard criticisms from every direction. You're the first one to give their opinion/view in a calm and respectful manner.
Thank you
Presenting something in a calm and respectful manner is meaningless. It is just dressing for the content. Tone of the criticism is not important.
Honestly, while I could forgive some completely nonsensical false equivalencies (like equating christians to muslims when it comes to persecution) or outright lies (like calling christians a minority), the whole thing takes a nosedive after he starts spouting conspiracy theories about the masons.
Sorry, but the reason why the clergy and religious leaders where targeted during every revolution is because religious leaders were always dirty whores sucking people dry. Of course they are some of the first people to be lined up against the wall, as well as they should be. Blaming it on some secret society of powerful men is such a slap in the face to any serious historical analysis and taking away the agency from the people who rebelled against the bloodsuckers in the first place.
“It’s the truth of candor shown through a prism of deceit.
It’s the continence of bishops with their choir boys en-suite.
It’s the tongue selling adulation that licks to no avail.
It’s the noise of the righteous dogma that hides the handmaid’s tale.”
I’d argue Ghost isn’t anti-Catholic or anti-Christian, but anti weaponized organized religion. There’s nothing more dangerous than telling a group of people that have been the majority for ages (and still are if you look at the breakdown of how many Catholics/Christians there are worldwide) that they are being marginalized or losing influence. There’s a lot of money and power to be made off of that kind of insecurity and uncertainty. Talking God and oppression at the pulpit or podium to rally the base while abusing that power for personal or political gain is not that uncommon throughout history or even today.
So many of their songs are about that kind of manipulation, abuse, and the use of Christianity as a shield against criticism.
Also, here’s an excerpt from that Psychology Today article you glossed over. “He claims he supports the right to believe in whatever one chooses, and believes in the existence of Jesus as a person. "I do believe in the idea of a historic person named Jesus that was a kind of chill dude who was just telling people to chill and be nice to each other. And he got penalized for that," Forge states. "I definitely believe that tormenting other people because of the Bible and for that to be - for lack of a better word, Gospel ... I think that is not very nice." That segment came off as a fallacy of exclusion or “cherry picking” on your part, which is also a manipulative tactic. Tobias being a Freemason is also under debate as that was alleged by his ex-band mates after losing a court case in order to gain an appeal, which has yet to go through. If evidence comes to light during that appeal, then feel free to make that claim as anything more than conjecture.
Edit: I almost forgot. Ghost is about as black metal as ABBA. (That’s not an insult. I love them both.) Tobias’s former band Repugnant was closer to black metal (death metal). I’m not into gatekeeping music, but I will call out someone claiming to approach an argument from the basis of knowledge on a subject when they can’t get the basics right because it doesn’t support their argument.
Thank you so much my mom watched this and now I can’t have my ghost stuff up anymore this is a really good argument 👍
@@axoloxtl1636 one day you'll move out, and your mum will have absolutely zero say in your life. Hold tight. You'll get there.
I call it regressive metal and I don't mean it as an insult. I use it to define prog metal that progs so far and hard that it is almost not metal.
@@axoloxtl1636 I look forward to your day of liberation when you can be your own person once again.
The “handmaid’s tale/tail” line is quite interesting, as obviously Handmaids Tale is set in a ultra-conservative Christianity dystopia, and at every turn the people in power utilize the Bible as a figurative hammer against each other. Kaisarion’s line had me rewatch and catch up on the show, and it’s very obvious that he used this line in the song - “the righteous dogma that hides the Handmaids Tale”. Give it a watch if you haven’t.
"they present themselves as a kind of mockery of Catholicism, through their branding, their costumes, and their lyrics"
Hmm, what does my reason tell me about this...
Big brain time.
Chin scratching moment.
And yet the comment section is shilling for these obvious points just because his metal riffs sound "cool"
Tells me that this guy can't handle satire as well as he probably thinks. I have to respect his intelligence and the sheer amount of research and dedicated study he almost certainly went through, though.
@@tryhardf844 I think their sound is great but I can't justify listening to them.
Same with artists like Rob Zombie.
My reason tells me that you don't seem to rely on reason that often...
Of course they deny there is a devil. Satan wouldn't have it any other way.
God: "I am Who am."
Satan: "I am who am not."
The best part was watching your picking hand at 1.5 speed before I clued in that it was at 1.5 speed. I was like “this guy is superhuman!”
If that's rusty, I can't even imagine what you sounded like when you were in practice.
Wow. This was like listening to your religious aunt in the time of the satanic panic. Hilarious.
Yea, my aunt always riffed some GnR right before warning me about the devil.
@@BrianHoldsworth You just used a ridiculous comparison in an attempt to humorously troll someone's view on your message. As Daffy Duck would say: "It is, to laugh."
Absolutely. I'd love to see the evidence of 'freemasonry', but I'm guessing this is just another pearl clutching fanatic of faith.
@@BrianHoldsworth I don't know if we could call it 'riffing'
@@BrianHoldsworth Getting ratio'd on your own channel... Talk about,"speaking about things you are ignorant about".... WOW. Clueless.
When it comes to Catholic music, there are very few bands that are worth listening to, but I recently discovered Within Thy Wounds doing a blackgaze kind of sound. And their lyrics are straightforward faith-filled without being cheesy. I’d recommend them to anyone fixated on the dark corners of the metal world to show them light.
I am from the "darkest corners" of the metal world and I wish I could show you all the light but your heads are in a place where no light shines.
Check out Katholicus (you probably have to look them up on RUclips, Illuminandi, and Theandric.
There are also many great Christian metal bands who aren't exclusively Catholic like those 3. I'm a power metal guy, so Theocracy is my personal favorite.
Black Label Society is fronted by Zakk Wylde, a practicing Catholic who wrote a song about the Blessed Virgin Mary. Also, one of Sabaton's biggest songs is about the Swiss Guards defending the Pope in "The Last Stand". There's some great songs for Catholics out there in metal.
Add Stryper in this list
Dude. You just blew my mind xD Great video
The EO have a similar antagonist in a band called Batushka. They actually sound really good in my opinion, but it’s mimicking liturgy in a way that’s not okay.
However there is an instrumental metal project by EO priests called Batyushka that’s pretty good.
I have a Ph.D. in religious studies, with a specialization in biblical studies, am a department chair and professor, and have been doing this for more than 20 years. Ghost is my favorite band. Am I an unthinking person?
We all have blind spots - especially when it comes to the things we are attracted to.
Title dropping is unimpressive. I took it to mean as Catholics and Christians it would be unthinking to listen to a band like this. If you are an unbeliever or maybe even agree with them, there would not be any conflict of values.
Those who like Ghost, check out his previous band ‘Subvision. Only 1 album but it rocks! A precursor to Ghost. Guy is definitely talented.
Also Magna Carta Cartel
Not to forget the awesome Repugnant!
Repugnant… Epitome Of Darkness is amazing.
As an avid, older metal head, I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on Volbeat Brian.
I am a former Catholic who now sees there is more than one path to Spirit. I love Ghost and listen to as many Tobias Forge's interviews as I can because I like to see how his mind works. He is a deep thinker and sees a wider view of spirituality, the world, and many other matters. I have heard him say he sees the devil as a metaphor- a symbol- for freedom to be who you are meant to be. I like that the fact that Ghost's songs call out all facets of Christianity, not just Catholicism for inducing fear in their followers/parishioners in order to make them follow their teachings.
The devil is a man-made concept that was originally based on the pagan god of nature, Pan, who was half-goat, half-man. He is called a Faun or Satyr (depending on the Roman/Greek/Celtic folklore one follows) The Christians felt they had to convert the pagans, so they turned Pan into a mainfestian of their fallen angel, Lucifer.
I have heard Tobias say he does believe in a higher/supreme being.
I will also be looking up that Psychology Today article you meantioned later today.
What is "Spirit"?
@@mr.horrorchild4094 ruclips.net/video/tLxjuoRXSnk/видео.html
Another artist that is very similar, although much more open and brazen about it, that I used to really be into was King Diamond, and even now some of his songs occasionally pop into my head. KD is very open about being a lavean satanist (basically an atheist with a heavy dose of esotericism thrown in), and takes the often adopted approach of “if God allows bad things then God is a bad guy.” Anybody with a hint of theological understanding knows how nonsensical this position is, but sadly it’s become the default to allow “do what thou wilt” to matter more than any sense of real human teleology.
@Relaxation Music One of my favorite albums. That, along with 'Abigail' and 'Conspiracy'
I've never really listened to them, but I'm about to go and do that now, thanks for the suggestion.
But we all now know that Cardinal Copia is goofy.
Excellent insights, as always, Brian. You always have carefully nuanced responses to pertinent issues of our time.
Your hair look really good at that length. Keep it that way, or else! ;-)
Was that third song that you played Nightrain by Guns N’ Roses? For someone who hasn’t played his guitar in a while, you exemplified great proficiency. Your quick, clean down strums are impressive. That’s not easy to do in such a consistent manner without causing great forearm strain.
Black Beauty Les Pauls are the tuxedo of guitars. If I ever purchased another Les Paul, that would be the exact model that I would get. My main guitars are modeled after Jimmy Page’s cherry sunburst Les Paul and Jeff Buckley’s vintage white Telecaster (with a chrome/mirror pickguard).
Lastly, I would gently encourage you to pick up your guitars more regularly and use the musical gift that God has given you, but for His glory. I’m sure that you could write some serene, melodic songs that reflect the beauty of God.
Thanks. Yes, the second song was Night Train by GnR. Thanks for the compliment!
What a talent, Brian! Thank you!!!!! Something from Rush next time?? :)
I didn't expect you to be that good and I did set my expectations base on the quality of your work, really high! Bravo! keep it up Sir! God bless! :-)
Also the part about Achmed the Dead Terrorist, yeah sure it could be seen as offensive at first that he would do that with his character. Until he literally took Achmed TO THE MIDDLE EAST and performed with him over there and was the biggest hit of his entire show! The audiences were waiting for that! They wanted to see Achmed. I'm pretty sure that when the ethnicity you're poking fun at comes, supports and loves your act, I think you've succeeded.
You are correct. I heard Jeff Dunham describe the first time he performed using Achmed in the Middle-East. The Saudis wanted him to perform using Achmed because they thought it was hilarious.
Achmed is a dead terrorist. A suicide bomber that screwed up so badly that he only managed to kill himself. That he’s Muslim-coded is more a sign of the times. If Dunham had written his material during, say, The Troubles, maybe Achmed would have been an Irish Catholic. He mocking terrorists. Not Muslims.
Interesting points to think about. Can I ask though.. what was the first song you were playing?
Night Train - GnR
Very excellent video! Brian, I found ‘And You Will Know Us by the Trail of Dead’ actually helped influence me to dig into Catholicism & by 2014 I became Catholic (after reading my way into it - as well as being blessed - the Holy Spirit was working on me!). And I find that Ghost MIGHT have a ‘similar effect’ on kids - that Tobias Forge might actually get kids (or adults) MORE INTERESTED in Catholicism…
I know what you mean. I watched The Young Pope and it hit at a time when it really lit a fire in me for learning more about the Church even though that movie has some very deeply anti-Catholic themes, i.e. the pope claiming to doubt His faith in God at all.
I want to bring to your attention to the misinformation present in this video. First of all, there is no concrete proof that Tobias Forge is a freemason, other than an offhand claim by someone who sued him who was hoping that the claim would grant him a retrial in their legal dispute. To say that this connection "came in handy" for Forge makes no sense because it actually did cause a retrial, which was a setback for Forge in the dispute.
Additionally, the claim was that Forge belonged to the same masonic group as the judge, which was the Fourth Division of the Swedish Rite. The Swedish Rite Masons are known very specifically to admit Christian ONLY members, and the Fourth Division is the most rare and exclusive section of it. It is unlikely that a man who has vocally rejected organized religion and uses Satanic themes in his band would be allowed to be a Swedish Freemason. For you to say that he's a Swedish Freemason would mean that he is currently a practicing Christian, which then would go against the rest of the commentary in your video as well.
Secondly, Forge's band is a satirical criticism of organized religion after growing up in a majority-Christian country and experiencing religious trauma. This is not at all comparable to a non-Muslim man making racist and Islamophobic caricatures (in 11:10 of your video). That comedic act is not "mocking a culture" but rather simply Islamophobia. Forge's satirical commentary on Christianity is stemming from his own experiences, it's not "good humor" or "hatred". It's clever rhetoric about serious issues within organized religion that he himself suffered. If an ex-Muslim man made satirical commentary on issues within Muslim communities, then that isn't mocking, it's critical thinking on things that pertain specifically to him, and perhaps is cathartic.
Ghost and Forge's vision is purely advocating for free choice, individuality, self awareness, and rejecting the idea of religions being forced on others. He uses Satanism as the vehicle for such messages, as it has been used as such for decades. His lyrics are very transparent in this regard and never have I or most other Ghost fans have ever thought Ghost is mere "trolling". They're complex, rhetorical and quite clever, using Biblical and historical allegories and metaphors. Most of us are also people who suffered from religious trauma and find peace within Forge's messages of autonomy and rejection of the norms. The aspect of Satanism is largely surface-level, and if you truly engage with the band's music the societal commentary and metaphor becomes clear.
There is a lot of internal bias I think you need to reconcile with before making videos on bands like Ghost, otherwise you may spread some harmful misinformation. I also think there is irony in you preaching about Forge needing to be transparent with his audience when in fact it is you who is not being transparent with your audience here. I hope that this message can help you learn more about Ghost and understand on a deeper level what their intention and meaning is.
A lot of projection in this reaction towards Ghost and Tobias when in fact, most if not all could be said about Christianity. That's the great thing about choice. I appreciate the video and the perspective but I don't agree with the finger pointing and the lack of self awareness when it comes to manipulation.
Nahhh, Ghost is just trolling. Tobias' views on the world from what I have seen in his interviews is no different than interviews you would've seen from any current metal band. Rob Halford of Judas Priest, no doubt has plenty of sincere and genuine angst against Christianity, but Tobias, is from a totally different generation and from Sweeden of all places, a very secular nation. He has never lived in a insane religious country like America nor is he from the same generation that enforced evangelical tyranny upon the population. If you want to see a genuine musician that has sincere gripes against Christianity read the "Long Road Out of Hell" by Marilyn Manson. Tobias is full of shit and is only creating these Emeritus/Cardinal characters because it's an homage to black metal and it sells concert tickets. You're out of you mind if you seriously think there's any depth to Tobias' work spans thicker than his wallet. 100% simulation pop metal, but it's good 100% simulation pop metal.
Very well said! I love the satire. Everyone down playing the ART that goes into the band, the lyrics, the music itself, just wants to argue for the sake of arguing.
I once where in the Sacristi of the parish church speaking to the Sacristan of said church, and the following was uttered: The nearer you are to the Holy and to Christ the nearer you are to Evil and to the entities of the Devil himself.❤🔥
Hello, Brian, have you ever thought about looking at and doing a presentation on Catholic Rock/metal music? I wonder what your take would be on Katholicus. They have plenty of RUclips videos
Tobias has stated he likes Satan of the media, imagery, movies, songs, costumes etc. His lyrics are also a lot deeper than that, and quite often don't mean the literal devil.
I'd also happily criticise all religions and put my name to it, they are all worthy of it, and none can claim any moral high ground.
Being offended is also subjective, as such, noone has a right not to be offended. There are plenty of Christians here in this thread who like Ghost even if they think it mocks their beliefs.
Having said all that, you seem like a pleasant thoughtful chap, and I enjoyed the vid 👌
We have very different views on things but I always loves to hear the other side. I think Ghost makes just as much fun out of "real" satanists as they do out of Christians and I don't mind people having fun with stereotypes. However secret societies like the free masons are a bit to much if he is involved with them.
But then as a Swede I know which bands Tobias played in before ghost like "Onkel Dingle Berry" and they sung about gays, poop, pedofiles and retarded people ( in Swedish ) in the most immature ways so I have a hard time take anything from him serious.
What is your opinion on Christian death and black metal bands? There is quite a few extremely talented very hard bands out there like Pantokrator, their song Crossroads is great.
I think you're thinking too much about all of this. Ghost is just good music, and if you look at it twice, they are just dressed as Scoobidoo monsters :) it's halloween, and basta... Faith is tons more than that, and as a Catholic myself, i do not see as satanism in their style and music as in bands like Watain, or Behemoth (bands i do not really like for that.)
what are your thoughts about Manson
Regarding the selection of songs, albuns, and/or bands to hear, we as catholics must consider that some of those might fit the definition of collaboration.
In saying that, I think I need to better scrutinize what I've been hearing lately.
Also… what of the disenfranchised for good reason. What of the outcast? The song Cirice deals with this.
I'm a Catholic and a lover of heavy metal. I own almost 1400 cds of heavy music, among them all of Slayer's discography. While I tend to take Slayer's message with a huge grain of salt, something has always stuck in my throat when it comes to Ghost. Just the way they come visually doesn't sit really well with me, hence the reason why I don't own a single Ghost cd. I dunno, it might seem strange, but it is what it is......
No grain of salt is big enough. I hate to say this because I know from experience how difficult it is to confront, but you're embracing a duality that is unsustainable. You cannot embrace music that denounces God and Our Lord and have your faith left in tact. It is a compromise and an unnecessary one. Imagine if someone familiar with your wife wrote a song about her that makes all kinds of false and slanderous claims about her and it convinces people to believe these things about her and pass similar judgements. But, you think to yourself, it's a good tune, there's some good riffs and I like the beat. So, you go and buy it and listen to it, even around her. How do you think that's going to affect your relationship? Now remember that God is only with you in so far as you invite him in, but if you're getting off on music that expresses hatred for him, you cannot believe that you are simultaneously inviting him into your life.
You own every Slayer LP but Ghost doesn’t sit well with you? You must be high AF.
@@BrianHoldsworth 1st they are mocking the "The Righteous" and Empires that seem to have a habit and destroying everything.. all through history. Most Metal I listen to 70s-80s taught to love me and be myself. And some that have Halloweeny-type subject matter like Ghost today. George Carlin taught me to question things I'm told, So I question those who "preach" and those in power, We all should with they are the ones messing up the world, Not guys in masks or make up wearing spooky things, I know many that are either of race or lgbtq community that are shunned away from Church. Countless wars and misery that we are told this is life when it's clearly it's a lie. That is why they mock the shady side of The Righteousness, Copelands and people like that who really do mock the faith. The Vatican is a creepy place to me. I believe in God and Christ but not humans and even more those who preach.
Tom Araya is a practicing Roman Catholic so it seems to me he is able to differentiate between his faith and his music.
You are pathetic.@@BrianHoldsworth
If you really know Ghost and Tobias you can see that it is a parody of the Church, simply with the aim of entertaining. Ghost doesn't make a hate speech It simply makes fun of some things about Catholicism, this being black humor, it is not meant to offend or generate hatred. I have been a fan of Ghost for 6 years, and I can assure you that fans are not alienated to hate the Church or anything similar, it is more, the majority end up having more knowledge about it. On the subject of the trials, he won because the former ghouls wanted more money in addition to fame (because at that time all identities were secret) and as tobias is the owner of Ghost, so he fired them and that's where the reason he won, he did nothing wrong, since then, there has been no trouble with any member. As for the subject of Satanism, Tobias has said on many occasions that he does not believe in any of that, it is simply his way of being able to give a message since. As for the subject of Satanism, Tobias has said on many occasions that he does not believe in any of that, it is simply his way of being able to give a message Since most of the songs have a hidden meaning behind, a meaning that normally has nothing to do with the Church, but with our current society.
Thats very true, but at the same time, when you have 10,000 people chanting "Hail Satan" (Year Zero)... I'm not really sure thats a good thing. Can't lie though, I really dig Ghost.. Even though I feel a little guilty about it lol.
@@Frankenberry it’s not a good thing. Year Zero is absolutely amazing in that context.
@@Frankenberry Actually the official lyrics are "Hell Satan." I dig Ghost, but I consider myself atheist, so I really don't feel guilty for liking them since I personally don't think God or Satan exist. I also listen to and enjoy Christian rock/metal bands, and other bands that worship gods like Thor (like Amon Amarth). In my mind, it's all fiction and fantasy. And Ghost puts on one helluva show :)
I love watching people get upset about make believe things…and about Ghost. 😆
He may not believe in anything spiritual, but that doesn’t stop the spiritual from believing in him.
I thought you were referring to the movie Ghost.
Ohhhhhh man ok I'm invested here. Being Catholic and a metalhead at the same time
Same lol! Well Christian for me but close enough lol
@@DareBear2099 top 3 bands. Go.
@@KSGomez88 Coheed and Cambria, Deftones, Black Sabbath (Dio era)
You?
@@DareBear2099 damn! Bold choices! Ok..
1. Sabaton
2. Iron Maiden
3. Motley Crue
@@KSGomez88 you have quality choices homie, always love me some maiden! Check out Zeal and Ardor if you haven’t already. Almost put them in my top 3
To this day i love heavy metal symphonic death and all kinds. As long as its hard fast. Makes me feel alive. Plus its far better musical composition then what we call popular.
Death metal is not black metal.
In case people aren't aware, ghost have a story going on in the background with various popestars and cardinals going up the ranks. The album's also have themes around time periods and concepts like plague times and most recently occultism in the style of Alastair Crowley.
Edit: the band are hugely entertaining live with every band member being a character of their own.
Freemasons aren't a secret cult by the way. Their existence is well known and their practices are quite documented.
So that means that both Freemasons and Satanists (including the members of Ghost), can't be, ya know, lying?
@@OrthoLou lying about what? The fact that they aren't secret and everybody knows they exist? The implication of saying that freemasons are secret is to say that they are like lizard people. They exist as some sort of shadowy whisper that only the enlightened know about? Or is the reality I can Google freemasons and come to a very official website explaining that "we are freemasons and we exist openly in the world"?
@@OrthoLou I imagine you're aware of the "socks for Satan" drive that the church of Satan run regularly too. It's entirely for the good of the homeless to make sure they get clothed and fed particularly in the winter. I don't see many Christian churches doing that despite the lofty ideals they don't uphold.
Yeah it’s all just fun and entertainment it’s like a band that also is putting on a play for the audience which is awesome because you get a show and music
Ah yes, Master of Puppets I used to (struggle to) play it back like 20 years ago. Never played GNR tho. It’d be nice. to see you review Face of Melinda by Opeth
Anyone else notice the audio glitches?
Thought this was about the Whoopi Goldberg film.
I wish it had been actually lol
Dominus Vobiscum my brothers and sisters, as an aging Metalhead and a Roman Catholic Seminarian, I really liked Brian's reaction to Ghost (and I really digged his jam session before the talk) I hope he does some more reactions to bands from a Catholic perspective...Pax et Bonum
What do you think of Powerwolf?
Guitar playing atheist metalhead here. The fact that you downpicked all of master of puppets, especially after having not played for a while, is awesome. I don’t think I’d be able to do that if I put my guitar down for a week. Sending love from Cambodia! (I live in the United States)
Great guitar tone!
Abandoning a type of music that you’re drawn to for the sake of religion is absolutely insane. No individuality allowed? No independent thought? As a former catholic and life long “heavy music” fan and guitarist, I say fuck that.
It’s not hypocritical to love Christ on one hand and listen to absurdly anti religious/satanic black metal on the other hand.
The ears like what they like.
And Ghost isn't anywhere near black metal in any form either...
Calling Forges description of his belief for a pyramide scheme or implying that a fun story/persona cannot be done seriously, since you would have to believe in the devil for it to work, is all such major fallacies. The gasslighting and strawman practices he says Forge himself is doing..
What a cold take. Hedonism isn't Christian. The modern cult of pleasure isn't compatible with Catholicism. You say 'former Catholic' but man, what did you ever understand of it??
It depends. On one hand I get what you are saying. It’s about how the music makes you feel and think, or it could be just for fun.
But it’s important to pay attention to that. I have a lot of trouble listening to some of the music I used to before returning to Catholicism because the lyrics promote degeneracy and I just can’t mesh with that anymore.
Not a type of music. The band its self. You obviously didn't bother listen to Brian playing Master of Puppets by Metallica right here in this very video.
You just don't get it yet. Is not so simple.
I am mexican, and a fan of ghost. It is true that freemasonry played a huge role in the Cristero War, and that horrible crimes were committed to the Catholic population during that time period. But here're a few clarifications:
a. Catholics were NOT a minority (and still they are not). Most of the population (+80%) identifies as Roman Catholic
b. At that time, the church had huge economic and political power, and in the people's minds
c. Calles Law was put in effect that would make Mexico a secular state, and Catholics fought it back because they didn't want to loose their position of political and economic power
Currently the church has influence over the people of Mexico, especially the poorest, and this often has negative effects on Mexican society. Every story has more than one side.
80% of the population is Catholic..? That is just false lol. Maybe like.. 33%, at the most. Nearly 8 billion people in the world, and only about 2.1 billion of them are even christian, let alone specificially catholic.
@@OrthoLou Read again, I'm talking about Mexico. Specifically early XX century Mexico. Brian mentioned the persecution of Catholic "minorities" in places like Mexico and Spain.
He never said catholics were a minority in Mexico. He never mentioned the area and it is assumed he is speaking globally.
Yeah, and the freemason Calles is the hero that save the defenseless Mexicans from their "superstitious" religious zealot oppressors.
Yeah. That makes total sense. As if Freemasonry didn't have negative effects on Mexican society now, forget other countries. Mexico is in a more challenging place morally than ever before thanks to everything they've done to destroy Mexico's moral fiber to date
I feel like the cartels have the most control in Mexico currently. They even make drug lords saints there
I’d be really interested to hear your thoughts on Liturgy
I’ve listened to a few of their songs, and while I really like the musicianship and the avant-garde take on black metal, I can’t bring myself to keep listening to them. Same with Zeal & Ardor.
great video...just remembered I think Matt Frad was into Mettalica..
This is all starting to sound like the 80's, when rock lyrics were bad, and were leading children to be satanists. Going to a ghost show is a fun night out, listening to amazing music and seeing an amazing stage show. Are you going to call Dave Grohl a satanist, because he donned a mask and sat behind the drum kit at a few shows? Of course not, why, because it is just a show.
Honestly, a lot of stuff in the 80s DID overly sexualize people. And it's only gotten worse, now we have Cardia B singing about her WAP...
Look around, has lust not seriously taken our culture by the throat?
And if you're simply not a believer, and think Ghost is a fun night out, then have at it. But Catholics shouldn't be supporting stuff like this, no matter how cool or catchy it sounds.
@@OrthoLou you sound incredibly judgemental for someone who claims to be Christian. Ah. wait...catholic.
persecution led me to be a Satanist.
@@lisam22 going off of your comments throughout this thread (you're very triggered over someone not liking a band that you do), you don't know much about Christianity or how a Christian should "sound."
@@lisam22 Catholics use judgement and reason to make their claims.
Dude nice job on master of puppets. Honestly I think the song has a great message about warning people about drugs and how they can take hold of you
He drunk the catholic cool aid.
I am so out of the loop that I thought that BrIan had just watched the 90's film Ghost and was going to review it. Then when the video began and he started playing guitar, I wondered, "why is Brian playing music that is soooo disturbing my spirit?" OK. Now I get it. I didn't listen to metal. but punk. I can no longer listen to so many bands like the Dead Kennedys. It did not happen all at once, but eventually, the more time I spent with Jesus, the less I could even bear listening to such music. Now most of it makes me feel sick and disturbed. I am so glad that there are so many other musical options out there that are uplifting.
Metal is often very uplifting, if following Jesus means not listening to and enjoying rock music then I'm very happy to be pagan.
Lmao oh no not your spirit
Really digging that Les Paul custom man
I have to say that when I first heard Ghosts Square Hammer, I loved it. Even as a Catholic, it didn’t bother me. I just thought of it as a cool sounding very catchy song. Something that reminded me a lot of Blue Oyster Cult, a band I listened to in the 80’s as a teenager. I thought of the satan aspect as just theatrics, kind of like Kiss or Alice Cooper. Then I started listening to some of their other songs as well as watching their videos. The satanic imagery and glorification was all over the place. And as suddenly as I started listening to them, I stopped. Cold turkey. From listening to stories of various Catholic Saints, I understood the devil and his losers try as hard as they can to worm their way into your life. And like roaches (literally) once they’re in it’s hard to get them out. And then the thought, that by listening to them, I’m offending and saddening God, someone I want to be with for eternity, and that I could be damning my soul, that was it. I was done with Ghost. I have to be on my guard though. Just hearing the song on your video made me want to turn them back on. I made it pass though. Thoughts of an eternity going insane over and over again in hell because you know you’ll never see God were enough to crush the urge.
My final thought. Always be on your guard. Old Scratch hates you and will try anything he can to lure you away from Christ and our loving Father. God bless.
Based
Same here once I started seeing the satanic imagery in the old rock N' roll and metal I listened to, stopped instantly, I need God above all in my life.
I’ve heard it said that “if you are a hammer, everything else is a nail.” The judge also bangs his hammer (gavel) in court when calling the court to order, but I don’t want to stand before Satan swearing an oath to him. He is not my judge; he’s only the accuser.
The essencial philosophy of Ghost is that if youre stupid religious fundamentalist, you deserve to be bothered by their music. If youre chilled and open minded, youre welcomed to enjoy them.
@@danielpavlik7242 so, anyone who has read Dante’s Inferno knows the Devil’s chilled at the bottom, they will nope right out of listening to Ghost for a prolonged period of time.
Ghost is one of my favorite bands. Ive never thought of it like this.
Oh boy. Where do I even start? First of all, there is no such thing as being "objectively offensive". Offense is all in the eye of the beholder. What one person finds offensive, another won't. There are plenty of religious folks who listen to bands like Ghost and aren't offended one bit. If an artist is enough to shake a person's faith, it wasn't very strong in the first place. Secondly, Catholics are not a "visible minority". Google the term "visible minority". Hint: it's associated with race. So yeah, Catholics don't qualify. Moreover, Catholics aren't a minority group full stop. There's 1.2 billion of you guys for goodness sake!
As for Tobias being a freemason? Literally the only proof of that (and I use the word "proof" loosely) is the ex nameless ghouls' statement after they lost the court case. Most likely? They were sore losers making excuses. As far as I know, it's never been verified that either the judge or Tobias were/are freemasons let alone that they knew each other (if anyone has any evidence to the contrary that I'm unaware of, feel free to let me know). Incidentally, one only has to look at their disgusting statements made about Tobias' deceased brother to determine the quality of the ex-ghouls' characters. But anyway, even if Tobias IS a freemason, who the hell cares? Despite what conspiracy theory people on the internet may have told you, freemasons are NOT a "secret society" (or at least they aren't at this point in history). They're a very well known, global fraternity organisation that focuses on building the moral fibre and discipline of its members (for example, how they're involved in charity and so on?). It's basically a metaphorical extension of what masonry itself originally was - building things. Tobias Forge isn't hanging out in Swedish lodges taking blood oaths in exchange for record sales. Live in reality.
On the subject of "the devil". I assure you, there's plenty of believers who DO view Satan in the stereotypical way that Tobias describes. I've met them. They exist. Now, in fairness to religion, it is largely due to pop culture that the red guy with horns and a pitchfork archetype has become synonymous with what the devil is. This is one reason why Tobias is always careful to point out in interviews that there's a difference between the "biblical devil" and the "pop cultural devil". He views the devil on his own terms as informed by both religion and pop culture. Like most so-called "Satanists", the devil to him is a character. It's a metaphor for certain traits that exist within the human psyche. He uses his interpretation of this (and other religious concepts) to critique and parody religion and mankind's relationship to it. That's literally all he's doing (well, that and making some great rock music). If you're offended by it, that's on you. You being a snowflake and branding it as "hate-speech" isn't Ghost's problem. It's yours.
P.S. Apu should have never been removed from The Simpsons
I was so appalled when he said that freemasonry is something that you need to make a blood oath to get in, and that they threaten their members with a brutal death (????) if they reveal anything. I'm rather close to freemasonry and that was fucking new to me, considering most freemasons I know are those 'christian god-fearing patriot' men.
And right after that he started talking about recharacterizing a position you're against by using absurd terms.
Also, as far as I know, Tobias never said that it was just "trolling", that's one way to casually dismiss what he has said in all these years of interviews, masked and otherwise
This is an embarrassingly awful comment
@@brunotqb you apparently don't know anything about freemasons
Triggered
#BringBackApu
Hail Satin! (and whatever other fabrics Ghost uses in their stage costumes.)
Well done.
Amazing video my man. I absolutely love interpretations and analysis of this subject. Ghost is definitely a band that will be in the books. being a fan of them for the longest time I find them to be interesting. they are the center of attention in the music world. maybe that's what Tobias wants? I can't say his true intentions behind the band but I must say that they are geniuses in sparking interest and twisting deep meaning into their songs. ghost specifically draws me in with their guitar riffs and the voice tobias has but importantly the lyrics they write that aren't just about the devil, an example would be their song "Rats". This song talks about the bubonic plague and the religious views people at the time had on the event such as "God is mad at us so he sent a plague, this disease is our punishment". I find their music to be almost Lovecraftian, Medieval and especially Gothic in a bizarre sense. They speak about other macabre things rather than just Lucifer. I would say ghost glamorizes the disgusting and obscene. I believe that's why people like them so much. that's why i like them so much, because they're different, what they represent is definitely not to be ignored but I'm not offended, I'm not ashamed to "sit at a table" with them. I'm not on board with their message however. as a matter of fact i believe listening to ghost strengthens how i see god. when ghost sings i hear in their lyrics that the devils lies may make you feel good, and they sound good but you will be in pain and you will suffer.
How do you feel about heavy music if it's not antithetical to Christianity? I have enjoyed the band August Burns Red for quite some time - super heavy, but lyrically inspired by Christianity. Or perhaps the band members or even lyrics are questionable, but I enjoy the instrumentation, such as the song Bark at the Moon by Ozzy which I like to play on guitar - how do you feel about that? Can I play the guitar part of the song without offending God?
Didn’t the devil physically appear when he tempted Jesus? So that means a spirit can be physical?
A spirit can appear to physical senses, but is not by nature physical. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (the summary of Catholic teaching) describes angels (of which the devil is): "As purely spiritual creatures angels have intelligence and will." Paragraph 330.
I'm a Christian and I listen to hard rock music and Ghost is one of my favorites. If Tobias has a satanic agenda with his music it doesn't effect me one bit. I see it as entertainment and lots of fun having seen Ghost live many times. People who are seriously into Satanism will view the band differently and take his message seriously. Tobias has said he isn't a devil worshipper but is open to the idea of a Supreme being but wanting more proof that he/she exists. I agree that many horrible things have occurred in the name of a religion and I don't understand that as it seems hypocritical. You mentioned Jeff Dunham and his Achmed character which was created in response to the terror attacks. It isn't necessarily aimed at the Islamic religion but rather from the view of a terrorist doing suicide bombings in order to please Allah. Again that is hypocritical. I don't take comics or bands seriously and they aren't corrupting me at all. My faith is strong enough to ward off "evil" influences.
why not listen to Seventh Wonder "the light"? A far better Swedish band.
“ My Faith is strong enough…” be careful when you say that because even St.Peter who had the same Faith as you was rebuked by Jesus and was called “Satan” because of that kind of Faith.
Humility is key 🔑
satanists don't even believe in satan, only christians do.
Justification is a powerful thing.
"I don't take comics or bands seriously and they aren't corrupting me at all. My faith is strong enough to ward off "evil" influences." this statement is scary. You are not in as much control over yourself as you think.
"I'm Jewish but I love reading to Mein Kampf and listening to Nazi bands. People see them as antisemitic, and of course, Nazis did bad things in the past, but it's fun and entertaining."
Never gave any thought to what people believe or not,
I just enjoy music and Ghost has a few song on my Playlist.
What was the song after Master of Puppets?
Night Train by Guns n Roses
@@danielsteel5171 ahh thank you. I knew it sounded familiar
Now I want Taylor Marshall to grab his guitar and play some riffs. Or did he already play one in his YT channel?
Among some of my great grandfather's WW2 memorabilia, I found a Freemason bible. It's a Christian bible. It just has weird Masonic stuff added to the first few pages. Also I think Ghost's success being due to "embracing the devil" could be interpreted differently. His devil worshiping alter-ego/ band image is highly successful because that imagery is simply exciting and draws the eye. Both morbid curiosity and enthusiasm lead people to look and pay attention to it. It's simply success due to good marketing.
Freemasons claimed to be Christian's but freemasonry is satanic
Also react to Sabaton "Carolean's Prayer"!!
I honestly don't know what Ghost stands for and I have never been religious so I don't even know what the lyrics mean most of the time...but I have recently become obsessed with them (and confused and intrigued) which is why I am trying to absorb all thoughts on Ghost 💁♀️ So thanks for the video.
Their music is definitely worth studying . There is substance there that can keep you busy for hours just trying to understand. Knowledge of lore, Christianity, satanism, demons, not required but recommended .
have you ever done a vid about Hillsong and what they did to people regarding their abuse .??
Ghost isn't metal, it's pop with a metal facade...
Its rock or soft rock
@@mebenn3382 It's pop
Very informative and inspiring reflections Brian thanks for all the great content on your channel! As a fellow journeying Catholic and fan of the metal and punk sub-culture, these were great points you raised on the potential subconscious or vocational intent of this music. I still very much appreciate the musical aspect of metal and in fact have been listening to Ghost's recent album but we always have to be mindful of the intention of the artist and I keep Ghost and Tobias Forge in my prayers if he is on his own journey as well since he is a very talented artist and musician.
I am also mindful of the more extreme intent of other subgenres like the Scandinavian black metal especially the Norwegian stave church burnings that resulted from actions of this community. It is very saddening to see passion in the subculture result in violent acts towards any community. There are tons of secular metal artists who think very profoundly of their lyrics and the complexity of the medium it is presented in (I can cite Gojira, Tool, Megadeth or even the late Chuck Schuldiner of Death which had rather existential reflective lyrics relative to the death metal medium). And of course on the opposite side of the spectrum legendary metal bands with extremely positive messages as others have mentioned in the comments including Demon Hunter, Living Sacrifice, Stryper, As I Lay Dying, Mortification, Extol, Narnia, the list goes on.
It is important to appreciate the beauty of art across mediums but again being discerning with the artist's intent and separating the wheat and the weeds.
I would say the same applies for being discerning on other mediums of art like books or films especially horror movies. There are a lot of ways Catholics can reflect on how to engage and empathize with the artists and communities driving such messages. For a film example, Robert Egger's The Witch is an example of a masterfully executed movie but unfortunately driving a blatantly satanic message vs. directors or films that can be equally as masterful in terms of medium, intent and message like Terrence Malick's Tree of Life or Scorsese's Silence.
It would be great to cover more reflections with regards to art and Catholicism keep up the great content and God bless everyone during this Lenten season!
A LP Custom is some really high-end (& expensive) guitar, I envy you Brian
You know, I wouldn't say Ghost is mocking Catholicism, they point out the messed up and problematic things that are a part of it or happens in christian/carholic scene. E.g. instances of priests and other people in the church sexually abusing children, the cruel murders that were performed back in the day against women and people who believed different things in the name of Christianity and god, in general people who use the name of god to do all kinds of heinous, immoral things and so on and on. If you deny that catholicism / Christianity has issues and or horrible people who defend themselves by using the excuse of religion - you really do need to look into yourself.
"Would most of us get offended by that"
I don't think that's the right question. I think we should be asking - is GOD offended by mockery of Catholicism?
He's offering questions for non-Catholics to consider. He made that very clear in the beginning of the video.
Nor do I think that asking leading questions, that answer themselves, to stir outrage as particularly effective tools in evangelization.
Not reasonable to believe that a God, a being of superior spiritual level, moral, intelligence, gets offended by art the same way it should when a person harms another person or destroy the nature, when people that create that art are good people.
@Rachel James Catholics haven't been oppressed tho?
@@Rafael-pi4md I don't know, God destroyed entire people groups for mocking Him and crafting idols.
@@MikeRogersMusic Christianity doesn't hold a monopoly on interpretations of God.
Abandoning a type of music that you’re drawn to for the sake of religion is absolutely insane. No individuality allowed? No independent thought? As a former catholic and life long “heavy music” fan and guitarist, I say fuck that.
It's typical of religion, trying to control the masses, any form of rebellion must be quashed! Heaven forbid someone have some fun.
Or he just didn't care for it anymore once he converted..? It's possible you know. I cut out a lot of music once I got back into my faith, but still listen to a lot of metal that isn't problematic. Metallica, just one example, is perfectly fine.
But I'll never listen to Ghost again because I think their lyrics are sick, and they mock my faith. Would you listen to someone who mocked you?
@@OrthoLou i only listen to instrumentalists
Yeah, this video is saying no individuality or independent thought is allowed. Perfect interpretation, good job.
I don't agree that Tobias is taking it more seriously than he's letting fans believe, I think your misenterpreting that. Tobias has said that he believes in Satan in a "pop culture sense", not a physical being. So when he says he gives credit of his success to Satan you have to remember Satan (he believes) is different than the Satan that christians and Catholics believe.
What about "The Last Stand" of Sabatton?
My professional take on Ghost as a devout catholic and avid metalhead (classic, thrash, black,), is that Ghost is bad because they suck lmao
I enjoy symphonic metal, but, as well as other genres of music, when I realize that it contains something opposing to my faith I avoid it.
I know this is totally off topic and I'm an idiot but you have the holy grail of guitars to me(forgive the really corny pun) a black beauty custom with all chrome and no gold hardware whatsoever,that thing is gorgeous sir you have an excellent taste in guitars.👍👍
"... but can we at least admit that to mock a community people [sic] for their most sacredly held beliefs and cultural practices for profit, is the very defining feature of everything we think of when we think of hate speech?"
No.
Well put. I had to give up the "music" I felt so attached to before converting to the faith. But afterwards, although I made excuses for a while, I had to finally accept that I should not be supporting those who mock godliness, truth, and order. What is the point of gaining a moment of entertainment if it costs my soul or someone else's?
I reminded myself that I never needed that noise before discovering it. I used to like classical music as a child. I went back to that and discovered that there are way more classical options than I could ever imagine. After banning myself from 90% of content, a beautiful world of true art has opened up to me. God bless.
Same experience here. I tried to excuse stuff like Ghost and Rob Zombie because it was "campy" and not serious, but after a while I couldn't anymore.
I do, however, still listen to a lot of rock and metal that doesn't have harmful lyrics. Any specific sound or genre can fine, what matters is the substance.
Metallica, is harmless in my view, and there are also many christian metal bands who ROCK. Like rock just as hard or even harder as many popular secular bands.
@@OrthoLou Thanks for sharing. I'm glad that you gave up those extremely offensive bands.
There are a few documentaries that talk about the origin of Rock. Although good lyrics are better than bad lyrics, some argue that the entire package is the problem. The beats and rhythms used are intended to cause disorder in the mind and they entertain the lower faculties rather than the higher.
The other issue is the egotism involved in those on the stage. When a motet is played by a choir or orchestra, no one is supposed to be the center - but rather the music itself (although some artists certainly find ways to get around that). In rock and related music, there is always a type of celebrity status where the ones playing the music are more or less worshiped. It is like comparing the Mass to one of those loud attention grabbing style preachers. At best it's immodest for the performers.
I would also reference that we know them by their fruits. All rock music, even the seemingly less offensive, attracts around it a culture of partying, drugs, excessive drinking, mobs, and other such things.
As for Christian rock, we need to look at the origins of that as well. When rock first made its move the industry got a lot of negative publicity from some well known preachers. There was only one thing that put an end to that. It was the sudden appearance of Christian rock. It seems to me that it was simply meant as a distraction to get Christians, at least the majority of them, to shut up about the problem. The majority of Christian bands have members that are terrible role models, and sometimes just as bad as their secular counterparts. It is often just a money making scheme. It also tends to distract Christians from prayer and other devotions - both as an alternative to it, and a continual distraction even when prayer is attempted. I remember when I was at a youth group back in high school, I would put my headphones on to Christian rock music as an alternative to prayer - which I though at the time was a sort of meditation.
I also found that Christian rock was usually a gateway for Christians to fall back into regular rock. Basically, they would feel a call to stop listening to rock. But then they would bring back in Christian rock. And before you knew it they were back into the whole nine yards.
I hope this does not come across as judgmental, but I just wanted to be honest with you. I know how hard it is to give up these things, so I am speaking just as much to my past self.
Being a Christian myself, and also kind of a Ghost fan, I have to admit that it is a bit of a guilty pleasure for me sometimes. As a radio dj, I play their music sometimes.. and I always have that little bit of doubt... Should I really be playing this? I DON'T really think they're doing these things to be taken seriously, and I do think it's really about theater... Much Like Alice Cooper... Who of course is a Christian himself. So, I don't really know how we should view such a thing. I've listened to Tobias in many interviews, and it's not just that he doesn't believe in a "Half man Half goat living physically in the underground, He doesn't believe in a devil as described by the bible at all. I have to say though, in my life before my conversion, I thought just like that... So it's hard for me to just say offhand that he's being disingenuous when answering questions that way... It's just that when we hear anything about the devil thats not describing him in a negative way, our confirmation bias kicks in and we automatically have our defenses up. And OMG you're right about their songs getting stuck in your head. When they're latest single came out, "Call me little sunshine"... I watched the video on youtube.. and it LITERALLY played on repeat in my head for like 2 weeks... From JUST one listen.
The listening on repreat is with their song Mary on a Cross right now. I just discovered it and damn is it catchy! I had a whole argument with someone who’s Christian that what Ghost is doing is spreading the word of Satan and all that, and from what I’ve listened to and heard from Ghost as well as from Tobias, this is a show they’ve put together and their goal is to make the audience happy. I know a lot of their songs have deeper meanings and while he does talk about the Devil, I feel like it’s in the way most heavy metal bands talk about the Devil - to illustrate a rebellious theme.
They do a glorious cover of a song called "Bible" by Swedish band Imperiet. Definitely woth a listen!
I love guitar Riffs I wish i had taken the time to learn