Fear the Old Lore - Dung Eater, the Omen, and the Blessing of Despair
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
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In this episode of Fear the Old Lore, we'll take a look at Dung Eater, the Omen, the Seedbed Curse, and the Blessing of Despair ending in Elden Ring, comparing the English and Japanese for a better understanding of the lore.
There's a surprising amount of depth to Dung Eater's side quest, and while he's certainly villainous, is he really that much more of a murderhobo than the Tarnished is? Many consider Dung Eater's ending to be the worst, but maybe it's just the most misunderstood.
Hopefully this video can help explain just what exactly is going on with Dung Eater and his ending and give people a deeper appreciation for just what's going on. If this video helped redefine your perception of the Dung Eater, please let me know. And if your take on the Dung Eater and his ending differ from mine, let me know in the comments below.
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Finally. A normal lore video
I think what Dung Eater was going for is just the same basic idea Syndrome voiced in The Incredibles: if everyone is cursed, then no one is. We clearly see he does have the vision and power to alter the order of the Lands Between, but I believe that vision is ultimately doomed to fail much like Animal Farm: all people are cursed, but some are more cursed. It's a naive attempt to force social equality through (meta?)physical equality.
And that is before we get into the obvious moral and practical issues. Omen are seen writhing in pain as they sleep clearly haunted by nightmares, items describe them as being tormented by vengeful spirits and regardless of how _exactly_ his "defilement" works it clearly is violent and painful as well. For all potential concerns regarding free will etc. Goldmask's Perfect Order at least does not *actively torture people* so Blessing of Despair still seems like the worst or second-worst ending depending on whether you interpret Lord of Frenzy as the "end of all things" or a phoenix-like "restart from a blank slate".
Now that's interesting. I hadn't thought about the Omens' connections to both the Dung Eater, and life itself (the Primordial Crucible).
Thematically, it seems that the Dung Eater is meant to voice the concepts that embody the Omens, that aspect of life which seems like a curse meant to inflict suffering; pain, anguish, disease, even excrement.
We all know by now that in Shintoism, physically uncleanliness has the mirrored effect of spiritual impurity, as we see represented in Miyazaki's games mostly be stagnant water. But stagnancy, decay, and rot, are "seedbeds" for all manner of living beings. These seedbeds of filth that spawn life, of course, breed disease that threatens our own lives, and in Shinto, threaten even our spirits. And of course, what is pain but the natural process which spurs us to avoid bodily harm, and thus preserve our living bodies.
It seems like the goal of the Golden Order and the Erdtree was not only trying to control the process of death and rebirth, but also to restrict the aspects of life which lead to pain and anguish. The birth of the Omens, likely brought about by the Primordial Crucible itself, seems to have been proof that not even the Golden Order could hold back the unfortunate realities of life, the Curse, for long.
While the Golden Order seems like they tried to eradicate all things that seem to make life a "curse", the Dung Eater must have reached the opposite conclusion, to unite all of life into one great miasma of suffering, to break down the distinction between Curse and Blessing. I'd guess this is why he is called "Dung Eater" in the first place (besides the butthole eating Kappa), instead of rejecting Life's Curses ("the crap") he would let it sustain him.
@NocturneJester I don't like the parasite idea. If you plant a seed in a pot and it grows into a plant is that a parasite?
@@specialnewb9821 Maybe “parasite” is not the ideal term, but the idea makes sense.
It seems more like the Erdtree (and by extension the Golden Order itself) was not simply the result of natural processes, but was deliberately cultivated, while other “growths” were suppressed through conquest . It so not so much that the Erdtree is the parasite, but Marika and the Golden Order are.
Instead of a flower, think of the Erdtree like wheat. It is not itself a parasite, but a conduit by which a human can feed on the nutrients in the soil. Naturally, this means careful cultivation and an “order”, which any other growths that will compete with the wheat’s growth must be uprooted.
I think the Erdtree is the same, carefully cultivated to establish the Golden Order’s over the Primordial Crucible and the power of life itself. This may only have been possible by conquest and destruction of potential other “trees” and their accompanying orders.
@mistersharpe4375 Yes, I can see that. It happens naturally too. Forests that are full of older mature trees often block sunlight and absorb most nutrients, so undergrowth is very limited.
My conception is Marika planted the Erdtree into the crucible to harness its life energies in a way she could control. The Erdtree is not a parasite and is the expression of that power. It also became the ONLY expression of thar power.
I am an outlier in that I don't think there were other trees to speak of and generally am skeptical of Tarnished Archeologist and his assertions.
@@specialnewb9821 The Haligtree seems to strongly indicate at least the possibility of other trees. Though I do think its like that only one truly "Great" Tree could exist at any one time (I do think the current Erdtree is more like an illusion or a ghost in place of the true thing).
When I say potential other trees, I do just mean that literally. Like what the "Gardener Statue" depicts, I see the era of Godfrey's conquest as the being without a "tree", but in which many are possibly beginning to flower. It seems likely that it would be impossible for a great tree to emerge until all the other competing powers and orders are suppressed.
Regarding the symbol of the Sun I feel like alchemy could potentially provide an explanation. One thing alchemy asserts is that everything in existence has a soul, spirit/mind, and body that houses the two. On a cosmic level, they would be represented by the Sun, Moon, and the Cosmic Ocean (space which is likely the primeval current in Elden Ring) respectively. As such, I theorize that because the Dung Eater interacts with souls by eating them out as a kotodama from the liver of his victims' bodies like the kappa demon from Japanese folklore that it is the reason he has the symbol of the Sun on his armor. Another example of the Sun showing a strong connection to the soul is Miquella's attempt to restore the soul of Godwyn by trying to drain the Sun of its color (Eclipse Shotel) in Castle Sol and trying to make it a Somber Sun and implanting its soul into Godwyn the Golden or whatever effect draining the Sun of its color would have on the Lands Between. I personally believe the Sun is the physical embodiment of the Greater Will like the Moon for the Moon Presence in Bloodborne which is why draining the Sun of its color is significant. Just a personal theory though. Great video!
It is called a seedbed curse, and propagates unto children, and their children's children, which is why it is a curse of the genitals. The seedbed curse is a testicle, the vas deferens clearly visible in the icon art. Moreover, he only does it to male victims, bloodying their laps. It was never a shirikodama curse, but a curse of life. We must remember the cornicello, or fertile horn, symbol of certain pagan beliefs. It promotes virility and fertility. It also shares meanings with the cornucopia. The Lands Between are a place of barrenness EXCEPT where heresies blossom (Rykard and his snakemen, the Omen, and the Scarlet Rot worshipers, kindred of Rot). Even the Albinaurics are showing promise of life-birthing at the end of Latenna's quest, with the "birthing droplet" that she gives to her towering sister.
so youre implying his name is just a compromise from "the loathsome testicle transplanter"
Regardless of the ugliness, I believe that this ending is the most close to humanity, in a nihilist, painful, existentialist kinda way.
Agree completely. I posted another comment directly to this video where I feel he's very much like Solaire in passion, nobility and sun emblem, but the "perception of their character" is framed differently between the two games. In Dark Souls Solaire's character is determined by the player trying to survive with almost no help aside from Solaire. In Elden Ring Dung Eaters character has already been determined by the inhabitants of a world that reveres the Erdtree and sees all opposition to the tree as a threat, thus demonizing him.
it's been a while since I thought about this so I may have forgotten some details of the theory. I think the whole "if everyone is cursed, then the curse is a blessing" is very twisted logic on the part of the Dung Eater given the pain involved in being cursed. I think a key part of being cursed and being an omen is being tormented by curse wraiths and that omen horns are a physical manifestation of those wraith-curses. In fact omens may be the result of wrathful wraiths, themselves the result of brutalization (like that performed by the dung eater). Anyway rambling a little but even if it was normalized it would be a miserable existence.
I thought the effect of the curse is that souls can no longer be reborn through the erdtree.
So it would just be life as we know it, right?
"F*ck it all, ignore the omens"
cit. Marika
Marika, a Lamb of God fan confirmed.
I love the Dung Eaters character and ending. Froms reuse of characters and the sun emblem makes me think of Dung Eater as another version of Solaire. The difference being that in Dark Souls, Solaire is viewed as an honorable character based on the biases of the player, navigating a harsh word trying to kill you with little help. In Elden Ring it's the world itself that determines the Dung Eater to be dishonorable because he revolts against the beloved and revered Erdtree. In the end both Solaire and Dung Eater wield a sun emblem, are passionate, and fight for nobel reasons. It is the perceptions of their characters as either honorable or dishonorable that sets them apart.
Does Solaire ever curse or torture anyone though? To me it's pretty clear Solaire is the much better person even when the perception is swapped.
@@Photoloss Dung Eaters motivation for cursing souls isn't really addressed. Maybe he's just a bad guy. That's the easy take away at face value most people will walk away with. I think that's intentional by the story telling, but From makes pretty deep and complex characters. It's just my personal opinion, but I like to think he does it for the babies, the omen babies. If true one could argue that he, like Solaire, is fighting a noble cause.
So it could come down to what the individual viewing him is. A human would see Dung Eater as a worse person, but an Omen would see the him as a hero, while judging Solaire as a bit of a crack pot, trying to find his own sun.
Edit: to add that both Solaire and Dung Eater are "fifth columns" within the world each lives in. They are each actively combative against the status quo. Solaire in a world where everything, including invaders, are trying to kill any opposition. Dung Eater in a world where the status quo is following grace and tending the Erdtree, the cause of death and immense suffering to all omen born.
@@bplus2625 I think you missed my point a bit. Even if Dung Eater does have a noble cause in some way he is still using extremely reprehensible means and should be condemned for that regardless. Not because he's fighting against the Golden Order, but because his actions involve personally torturing people and making them suffer. To my knowledge Solaire only engages in violence against those who have already chosen to commit violence of there own which while not necessarily 100% pure and righteous is still better than defilement.
@@Photoloss I do see your point and I'm not saying your wrong. My proposal of who the Dung Eater is and him being a revamped version of Solaire, is both whimsical and highly speculative, I admit that. I really enjoy speculation within the limits of what is known and confirmable in the game.
I understand that you believe Dung Eater is vile and does horrendous things, but it's interesting you say he "personally torturing people and making them suffer" because there's nothing in the game that states he does this. If you go back and review dialogue and item descriptions related to Dung Eater there isn't a single mention of anything like this.
As this video points out, according to the Japanese translation, he simply kills and implants Omen horns in the body.
The world of Elden Ring absolutely presents Dung Eater as a "Boogeyman." This is 100% on purpose. The characters such as Blackguard Big Boggart want you, the player, to go into the game with a bias, apprehensive and fearful of Dung Eater telling you "all you need to know" so that you avoid him at all costs. Yet Fromsoft gives you the opportunity to get to know him a little and ponder his true motives, even giving you a unique ending. Isn't that interesting?
Thank you for the discussion! I've enjoyed it very much!
@@bplus2625 Dung Eater himself screams in agony when you return the Seedbed Curses to him. Roderika describes his presence as deeply disturbing to the surrounding spirits. Omen are seen writhing in pain or terror while asleep. Since people can't fully die even the "stab the corpse with Omen horn" part is not guaranteed to be painless. The original Omenkillers were merciful at heart and tried to help the Omen but ultimately concluded that euthanising them was the only way to end their suffering. I am not aware of any evidence that existing as an Omen would be anything but painful even without Golden Order persecution. Mohg might be the closest but even he has the "blood burning like fire" aspect which doesn't exactly sound pleasant.
And unlike most others e.g. Albinaurics the fact the Blessing of Despair ending exists means the Golden Order is actually _right_ to persecute the Dung Eater specifically, even if their shunning of the Omen is not. A broken clock is right twice a day, and if you vilify and eradicate all outsiders you will inevitably snag a few who legitimately are as evil as you claim (while missing the same within your own ranks ofc).
Babe wake up! A new Fear the Old Lore just dropped!
Thanks honey ❤️
During my first playthrough, few things were as gripping as finding seedbed curses, mostly because I had a feeling they would lead to some kind of NPC invasion trigger - we do get invaded by the Dung Eater, but I imagined it'd be a proper chase-down - and perhaps and eventually a horrifying bad ending by aligning with that curse-spreading. Yet as time passed, that side of the lore became more and more deflated, even as it culminated in us doing that very same disgusting defilement at the closure and climax of the quest.
It's interesting to look back at that now and take it as meaningful thread in the massive lore weave that ER presents us. As far as "curse" goes, it seems complicated for us to understand the assumptions and following implications, particularly in the West, where our cultures do not have physical representations of curses, as we don't see curses as collateral byproduct of being alive, but rather of sentient/wilful evil directed at someone else. I think this is a pertinent parallel, how naturalistic the view of curses in ER is.
*_"THE REPUGNANT RECTUM ROBBER"_*
Imagine having been born to Omen parents, but end up looking like their human oppressors… it’s probably pretty rare, but I
imagine you’d want to punish those who killed your family and left the others in chains… treated as inferior and forced to have your horns cut off (for non royals).
And the best way to make sure none escape karma, one might do what Dung Eater does. He even goes on to say “Hundreds will be reborn cursed, and they’ll bear thousands of cursed children, who’ll bear tens of thousands more… a few of those will be born just like me. And they’ll kill, and defile, and bless in my stead.”
I always saw the Erdtree as a sort of metaphor for societal expectations. If you do what it wants, you are blessed. If you are born differently, act in a way that isn't tolerated(good or bad, doesn't matter) or go against it, you are shunned and are shown in a more humiliating light.
There's a lot of ways you can look at those who are tarnished with this in mind.
What the omen curse to me signifies is a gamey version of victim blaming. Often times victims of violations of this sort can be blamed by society itself, and that's what the erdtree is doing. Even if they are unwillingly violated by the curse, they are still ''tainted and gross'' and lose the blessing of grace(shunned by society).
As the problems in the lands between get too big, the standards of society become impossible to maintain and everything is ruined, it's then that society then looks to the tarnished, who they once shunned, to fix their problems for them. They begrudgingly enlist their help regardless of their unwanted status, and then once things start to get better they renege on their side of the bargain and turn on the tarnished again(the elden beast, kind of the super materialization of that society, attacking the player.)
It has done this in the past, making Marika marry a filthy savage(Horah Luax) to kickstart itself, using a strong, but ugly and savage man to cut a swathe into other lands and conquer them. They make him change his name to something society deems more appropriate, and make him take on a more honorable and sportsmanlike attitude, his savage nature is taken from him in the form of the beast that clings to his shoulder because society doesn't want to see it past its usefulness. Once he does what is needed, he is abandoned by the erdtree, and Marika marries a more ''fitting'' man, Radogan. Unlike the savage Horah, he is beautiful, thin, and civilized. Him being a part of Marika herself kind of symbolic at how these standards are so impossible to live up to that they can only be imitated.
I think a lot of the characters in Elden Ring and their character arcs can be viewed this way, people unable to live up to the vague and harsh expectations of society. Malenia did everything she can, as a woman, to be the best of the best. She has a natural weapon inside of herself that she didn't work for, but she doesn't want to rely on it. But when faced with the reality of her strength in the fight against Radahn, she gives in and uses it, later in the fight against the player she puts up a hell of a fight...but when she is once again faced with how weak she actually is what does she do? She takes her clothes off, doesn't this seem like it's making an allegory for something? You also have her father, who highly encourages this act to the point he kills himself when he can't force his other daughter to follow in her footsteps, who has convinced other women of the like to gang up and pressure her into doing what is expected of her.
Think of Ranni, who was born as a beautiful demigod, with the same expectations placed on her. She can only avoid this fate by literally destroying her entire body, but even in the body of a puppet she has one of the sleaziest men in her court of champions that is trying to make dolls out of women to fuck them, if you try to give her the potion that Selevus gives you she lashes out at you with that built up resentment. It's pretty clear this has been on her mind for a long time, and likely is a major reason for her sheer disgust of the golden order and desire to escape the entire system.
I've only included women, but there are men that face "societal expectations" and have lost their grace as a result of not living up to them as well, like Diallos. Expected to be a strong manly man warrior, and through pressure convinces himself that he needs to live up to that role at all costs.
So with this in mind, the Dung Eater has come to the solution to force everyone to be unfit for society. If there is no one to uphold the perfect image and standards of society, if everyone is an unfitting and filthy cretin with no beauty, then the Erdtree would have no authority whether it was physically alive or not. Wouldn't matter if it was burned, still alive, or tainted, it simply would be a useless tree with no rules or standards to propagate. It might even be the best long-term solution, a burnt Erdtree can likely be regrown, repeating the issues it brings, but how can you enforce beauty and expectations on an entire planet where everyone is repulsive to you?
You show that social, identity and maybe economical questions is also very much present in Elden Ring and the Lands Between. And it is, unfortunately, a subject that is often passed over when talking about the game, it's story and it's lore. I never thought of Ranni's plot as a revolt against sexism.
Haven't watched the video through yet but more or less I think the Crucible Influence that creates Omen and gives them the traits that they are associated with sometimes makes people like Godfrey, who are wild in spirit and driven towards their callings, but not physically mutated other than being prone towards physicality. I think Dung Eater is basically an Omen in the way that Godfrey is basically an Omen, its just that Dung Eater has a different role than the one that Godfrey played. Also, akin to the idea that people like Godfrey can civilize if given a place in society, people like Dung Eater can be made worse if you *don't* give them a place inside society through their identity.
Further evidence that Dung Eater is basically an Omen? All the shit he does that is an extension of the power of the Horned Omens.
I think the best point you make is a sort of off hand comment --- if the curse is constant pain, and pain is what is life, then the dungeaters curse goes backwards from its intention and works to make death more life like.
I am pretty sure I have ranted in the comment section here already about how the "endings" are really the building blocks of the golden order already underway, w/ Ranni's being the beginning of the Golden Order and Shabriri's being the end. A tautology is "all there is", it has no outside. That's what transcendentalism refers to.
The videos on this channel are either 5 minutes or 3 hours.
Anyhow I think you need to consider whether there are errors in the Japanese text as well. Typoes or other errors can happen and be over looked by developers. And while the story is written by From, GRRM wrote the setting in English which had to be translated.
Also don't forget Zullie's supposition about DE via the ass...
The point about burning the Erdtree unleashing Destined Death, I've always thought of it as fulfilling Melina's prophecy, which does seem to be a "known saying" in the Lands Between.
"The one who walks alongside flame shall one day meet the road of Destined Death" becoming a bit literal in that sense.
So I don't think it's necessarily that the Erdtree blocks death in and of itself. With how you are magically transported to Farum Azula upon the burning, I think it's more about this magic prophecy that requires burning the Erdtree to be able to unleash Death, not that the Erdtree itself is the rampart.
On another note, couldn't the line about preventing death from returning to the Erdtree also be read as "preventing THE dead" ? (Amounting to pretty much the same thing as the English line). Death is often capitalized but I'm not sure how that equates with how it's written in Japanese when that's the case.
That's kind of how I felt about death and the Erdtree for a while, but like I said, the Seedbed Curse and the Rold Finger Reader Crone's dialogue introduces doubt for me where it wasn't before.
And no, the Seedbed Curse's Japanese description is not also read as preventing the dead from returning to the Erdtree. It's death. º𐑧㋛𐑨º
I appreciate these videos & you continuing the lore hunt, love this game
I love the dung eater because he is everything that solaire of astora is not. But it doesn't mean I don't love solaire. I love the thought of the dung eater is the complete opposite
I mean, just listen the guy in his own words. He hates everything and wants everyone to be miserable. If he has some vision of a world that will be better for other people (as opposed to a vision where everyone is as miserable as him), he does a terrible job of selling that vision.
Bro, I miss your live-streams ;_;
My favorite character!🎉❤
my problem with Dung Eater's philosophy is it seems to exist against the golden order. Like I don't think being an Omen is bad or Painful in it of itself, but that being an Omen meant that you would be persecuted and rejected by the Golden Order. In the time of the crucible being an omen or misbegotten was seen as a blessing after all. So by calling it a curse he's kind of adopting the golden order's own labels and logic isn't he? It seems like this entire vision is just born of spite and hatred for the system and world that already exists, it's very contrarian which makes it very derivative at the same time. By trying to be opposite of the Golden Order it's ultimately a product of it imo.
I think we can get a bit more clarification as to wtf the omen horns represent --- if you look at the old Elden Ring with roots we find in Maliketh's boss room, we can theorize based on similarity that the roots & horns represent a broken/open Ring. An open or broken ring is one subject to unpredictable change which would make Order difficult. Unless the entire order itself was constructed on unpredictable change, then it flips.
The "shattering" makes the order, it is not a separate thing, it is the core logic of Order --- everyone is excluded & everyone is prevented from making a new order by virtue of their inclusion within the excluding order --- it's like a fractal
Great video
Those "rays" on the sun symbol - could they symbolize horns? Like that chaos star from warhammer
Fear the devious dump devourer
The pernicious poopie partaker
OMENS!
DUNG!
SEMANTICS!
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Amazing Video XD
If there are spirits of the dead that can communicate environmental details (like the nobles and that one Carian knight at Caria Manor) then why are there also spirit jellies? I was under the impression that creatures that die on the planet of Elden Ring turn into spirit jellies unless they go towards the helphen, go with the deathrite birds, get cremated as spirit ashes, or given Erdtree Burials. But what's the deal with the ghosts that talk?
They all died brutally aka. were murdered.
It be fitting for the game to have Dung Eater be the best ending.
great video as always. I have a question: in the japanese is it stated or implied in any way that the manner in which he defiles corpses is sexual? or is it more like he defiles corpses by putting the curse in them? which could in itself be a sexual metaphorI guess. how is it in japanese? because when I played the game I saw people online claiming he rapes the corpses because there are blood stains around the pubic areas of his victims but when I saw those I thought of that japanese spirit that steals a soul gem or something analogous from inside people's anuses.
Not exactly. Some people believe Dung Eater's name is a reference to the Kappa, as you mentioned, where it was said to take people's "spirit gem" (ass ball) and eat them.
The reason for this is because Kappa were considered aquatic creatures and when corpses were found in water, they'd often have distended anuses, as though their insides were forcibly searched, leading to the legend.
While Dung Eater's name may be a nod to that idea, there's nothing explicit in the game to suggest that what he's doing is sexual in nature. It's questionable whether he implants the Seedbed curse while his victims are dead or alive, but since Blackguard can produce one right after he dies, Dung Eater may have stabbed his organs with an Omen horn while he was alive.
For more info about kappa and shirikodama, you can check out this site:
hyakumonogatari.com/2012/01/25/kappa-to-shirikodama-kappa-and-the-small-anus-ball/
It honestly could be both. Sex and its role in the life-cycle is alluded to in Elden Ring fairly often. I think that, while the Dung Eater defiles the spirits of victims, the allusion to rape and the "defilement" of the body is also what you're supposed to instinctively think (even if it isn't technically canon). The Dung Eater is like the living avatar of all the filth and pain that is also integral to Life itself, literally the dung.
@@LastProtagonistpoor Sekiro bro...
hellraiser ending
The poopoo purveyor
Swag.
😂
Who farted?
*_"THE NASTY NUMBER 2 NIBBLER"_*
I just think its underdeveloped AF. Even this lore video had nothing to it, just descriptions anyone could read. The implications aren't even interesting since there's little to really conclude. It just, is what it is. Elden Ring for me was just all scale, no substance. The lore seems more about development inspirations and internal logic than events or greater meanings.
Odd, I feel the opposite. This describes the Souls series to me, but I see elden ring as much more concerned with an actual story and how its events affect the characters in it.
@@mattb6616 Think you might have misunderstood the OP' woes, or at least I had that impression. ER is concerned with very colorful characters, events and aesthetics, but these several lines of "story" do not culminate in a unified-enough thread that allows us to have a vision of the impetus behind the ideas composing this universe. Ratatoskr has encapsulated this sentiment in his "Elden Ring's Lore Is Uninterpretable" video.
It is hard to view ER as a place in which decisions reveal intentions and vice versa, concurrently and coalescing in some vision of what is going on - a narrative larger than every entity that composes it. For example, we are close to two years out and no one has any actual idea why Marika shattered the Ring. We don't understand the Crucible. We don't understand the Omen. It goes on and on.
In this sense, we have no idea what ER is about. Which cannot be said for DeS, DS, BB or (of course) Sekiro. Granted, having a decade to digest lore is certainly an advantage, so that we shouldn't presume our idea of ER lore will be the same at the end of that same span of time. And this is without bringing up DLC potential. Let alone the possibility of more games in ER's universe.
What I think you bring up though is an appreciation of these picturesque narrative threads, which I think everyone would have to agree are rather more aesthetically fleshed out in comparison to past games. In terms of aesthetics and colorful characters, ER can compete with all previous games combined. That is rather amazing, which I think was your point in turn.
no, i understand that sentiment perfectly well, i just disagree with it. maybe i'll make my own videos one day explaining my interpretation of the story, but it seems like one of their most traditional, if also one of their most complex. I feel as if I know pretty well why Marika shattered the ring, what the Crucible was and did, and other things. The Omen are more of a mystery but I've got my own thoughts on that as well.
My point is just that I disagree about it being "uninterpretable". There is, to me, obviously a unified thread. That thread is Marika, her existence before the Elden Ring's arrival, her subjugation and forced status as an Empyrean of the Greater Will, and her millenias-long plan of escape and revenge. The reason Elden Ring doesn't "make sense" or "can't be interpreted", in my opinion, is that many of the lore theorists take things the game does not explicitly say as fundamental assumptions about the nature of the world, and try to build off of these fallacious premises, rather than trying to see what the game is actually saying.
Any interpretation of the game's plot that begins with "Marika loves the Golden Order and everything she does is about enforcing its will" is inherently flawed and will never find the real plot, because nothing in that statement is true or borne out by the information within or events portrayed by the game. Any interpretation that involves fanfiction like "Marika went to war with the Gloam Eyed Queen" is never going to be able to interpret the plot events or the motivations behind them, because that never happened and nothing in the game said it did. Many of the most common foundation points of the fanbase's theorizing, for Elden Ring, could be considered fanfiction, fallacy, or faulty syllogisms, and therein lies the "fly in the ointment", as Goldmask would say. People can't interpret the hidden meanings of a story they invented for themselves. @@kimlee6643
@@kimlee6643I think the developers knew that figuring out the game would take a long time. And I think this is ok, it's a unique approach and it requires collaboration, which I believe was intentional. Doesn't mean everyone has to dig this approach, though. I understand why people find it frustrating.
Don't compare bloodborne lore. With this shit
The Based Ending