Fear the Old Lore - Goldmask & the Fly in the Ointment
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- Опубликовано: 11 окт 2023
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In this episode of Fear the Old Lore, we'll take a look at one of the most enigmatic and divisive characters and endings in Elden Ring: Goldmask and the Age of Order.
There have been a lot of discussions as to whether or not Goldmask's ending would remove the free will of others so that way it would stop others from discriminating against Those Who Live in Death for example, but honestly, that's not the kind of vibe Goldmask gives off to me. Instead, I think Goldmask's Mending Rune of Perfect Order is meant to make it so that the Elden Ring wouldn't be able to be Shattered or modified again in the future.
So while Goldmask's ending might offer the most stability, it also seems to be the most rigid, and thus we should ask ourselves whether an eternity within the Perfect Golden Order is a good thing or a bad thing. I'm sure this will stir up a lot of controversial opinions, so let me know what you guys think about the Age of Order in the comments below.
@garrulousgoldmask video "The Goldmask Ending is the Best Choice in Elden Ring"
• The Goldmask Ending is...
My Timestamped Reaction to it:
• LastProtagonist Reacts...
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I always interpreted Gold Mask's perfect order as making the natural forces in this world unconscious, dispassionate and adhering to their own rules, kind of like how the natural world works in real life. The "fly in the ointment" was that Gods and Demigods were able to mess with the fundamentals of existence like Marika removing Destined Death or Radahn halting the stars - and that this practice always lead to trouble. By making it so that the fundamentals of existence could no longer be meddled with, reality would become more stable. No more Shatterings and no more Outer Gods manifesting from the parts of reality that Marika kept trying to pluck out.
I like you interpretation👍🏽
Goldmask is a hero
isnt that rannis one
@@bbyponk I think Ranni's ending is to cast away the Greater Will and the Golden Order and either be free of gods or follow the stars (another Outer God?) Whereas Goldmask's ending is to mend all the parts of the Golden Order back together and make it tamper-proof. So a bit different.
@@bbyponk
ranni ending only does one thing and that is yeet the player, ranni and the elden ring to space
nothing stop it to be altered or being reintroduce again
Goldmask’s character draws heavy inspirations from a number of real-world historical figures, largely centered around scientific discoveries involving our Sun.
Regarding his mask, obviously it’s shaped like the sun, but a less obvious detail is that the eye holes seem to resemble sun spots. In 1613, Galileo published his report on the observation of sun spots. His claims were significant in shifting the traditional Aristotelian view that the sun was both perfectly unflawed and unmoving.
Another major figure was Copernicus, who suggested that the Sun is the center of the solar system, and not the Earth. The church was not happy with this, as it contradicted their existing views. If we apply alchemical symbolism to this idea (that the Sun is at the center, not the Earth), we see how this aligns with the discovery of Radagon being ‘at the center’ of the Golden Order - despite everyone thinking that it’s still Marika running things.
Most people theorize that Goldmask’s different poses/gestures throughout the game indicate his process of ‘solving the equation’ he deduces from the Erdtree, resulting in the discovery of Radagon as an unexpected variable in the equation. The ‘equation’ he is solving is not something that others can understand, as it is written in “the language of light spoken by the two fingers”. Given all the clear metaphorical analogies between the Erdtree and the sun in these contexts, we should view Goldmask staring at the Erdtree as, essentially, him staring at the sun.
So, what is the mask for? Why does he wear it while staring at the Erdtree through those lovely eye holes?
In the real world, the element of Helium was first discovered by looking at our Sun - not on Earth.
Using a spectroscope, Norman Lockyer was able to split the composite light spectrum of the Sun. But he detected a wavelength of light that did not fit any of the already-known elements at the time… he had discovered the element Helium, naming it after the sun god Helios.
It would seem Goldmask likely designed his mask to ‘split the incoming light spectrum’, with the intent of isolating and identifying the individual ‘variables’ in the Erdtree’s ‘equation.’ However, he was missing a part of the puzzle, and through his calculations (and with us spoiling the answer to him) he’s able to identify that previously undiscovered element within the Erdtree’s spectrum - Radagon.
The sunspot activity of December 1610 was the first to be observed using the newly invented telescope, by Thomas Harriot, who sketched what he saw but did not publish it.
This may have inspired the situation around the builder of the statue in Leyndell - how he observed the ‘sun spots’, and rendered what he saw in art - but did not publish it publicly.
100% agree
The way he figured out about Helium was because it was missing right? It was being consumed by the sun which could be deduced by it's absence in the visible spectrum?
I am about 65% sure that the in game lighting systems follow that logic & we are supposed to be able to deduce what/who was deemed 'the Tarnished' in any particular area by the missing color?
Idk, I am from the other side (politics/literature/history) so the science stuff is all pretty new. But have you seen the black sun? Go to the Mohg area, cover your character in blood and you'll see it if you haven't already. Fking desaturates your character colors. Terrifying
This is incredible insight, and it fits astoundingly well. May I ask, how did you come to know about all these factoids? Did you study this? Also, I wonder, all these connections we are ascribing to the writers, could they all possibly be intended, or just happenstance?
Marika is a god, how could you kill a god? What a grand and intoxicating innocence.
Tarnished come to me through fire and war. Ohh ohh.
I always interpreted it as a good ending, in a way that the ideas of the Golden Order are ultimately good and benevolent for its people, but because it is being managed and controlled by imperfect beings, those flaws eventually start to harm the whole thing. Kinda like making a cult, or a religion, with everyone as loyal and willing followers, all working towards the same goal of serving the Erdtree and its society. Goldmask would get rid of the instability and temptations that Marika had, that the Outer gods bring, that arise from Marika + Radagon messing things up when establishing the order. It would be a religion-based society with clear rules that everyone follows, without holes and unanswered ehtical questions for edge cases like the Omens.
It would probably mean that those standing in direct opposition to the Golden Order would be either assimilated or eliminated, but that, while cruel, has already been attempted when Marika used Godfrey to rid the Lands Between of opposition through wars and conquests. It's not like the player is a force of good either, establishing their rule by sheer power and brutal means, so while it isn't the best possible ending for everyone involved, it is ultimately an ending that establishes a well working and stable society. Which already is more promising than half the endings of this game.
why is Goldmask the only tarnished that looks like a corpse?
He's been basking in the sun too long.
I think the real answer to the questions is not that Goldmask is an adherent to Marika’s Order, but to the Order as given by the Greater Will. He does not believe Marika as the true god of the world, and thus would not agree with her removal of Destined Death. His “Perfect Order” would get rid of the fickleness of Marika and others by completely restoring the Elden Ring and making sure it could not be tampered with. Those who live in Death would then truly die, and Death would be restored.
I have come to this conclusion as well
Gold masks ending is a good ending. The best I haven't decided but it's in my top 3
Love this wave of new vids. Keep it coming!
In the Soulsborne games we always seem to play as one of the people whose role in the world is to be the chaotic force that attempts to fight against a stagnant world that reached that state due to the rigidity of forced Order with no room for Chaos. Miyazaki seems to love playing off that archetypal story and it makes me think of the Chinese Yin-Yang symbol as the eventual goal. Or, at least, a similar principle. So, piggybacking off of that, I would postulate this ending is one of the worst. Time and again we see the cyclical nature of things and it is, funnily enough, the fickleness of the gods that allows for the potential of change to the Lands Between. Because the Tarnished were brought back due to Marika's fickleness, change could happen. Removing the potential for that change will only invite something similar to the ending of Dark Souls 3. Potentially.
But you can have change without screwing with the laws of the universe.
Nice compositions, some aspects that my game camera couldn't catch.
I believe Goldmask has altered the elden ring to leave out or repress the influence of the gods on the world, leading to everything coming to a standstill. Thus putting everything in perfect order, with all the good and bad existing perpetualy in a state of balance. Just the way it is in that exact moment of "freezing"
What exactly IS the Golden Order supposed to represent? Is it Marika's Order of the world where souls can be reincarnated again through the Erdtree of her creation? And if immortal essence has always existed in the Lands Between before Marika (such as with the Helphen, the Ancestral Spirits, and the Spirit World through Dreams and water as implied with Miquella), then why create the Golden Order in the first place? Was it Marika's wish for people to have eternal life through her own methods rather than that of the Order before? Is that why she removed Destined Death in the first place?
And if I'm understanding this video correctly, was the main reason Marika and the Golden Order despise Those Who Live in Death because they continue to live and exist without Erdtree burial and reincarnation, effectively bypassing the Erdtree entirely? And is that your main reason for assuming Marika shattered the Elden Ring, since Godwyn was unable to have a true Erdtree burial as his soul was killed while Those Who Live in Death were able to live on thanks to Deathroot and thus not needing Marika's Erdtree to live again through reincarnation? And as a result, Marika realizes that her Erdtree is unnecessary to have eternal life?
But if this is correct, then where did you get the assumption that the hunting down of Those Who Live in Death, and the persistence of having the Golden Order was Radagon's main perogative? Is it because it's implied that Radagon sealed off the Erdtree with his own Great Rune, and how he attempted to repair the Elden Ring?
Regardless, loved the video! Super glad to see you making Elden Ring lore videos again! If possible, can you do a video detailing the full timeline of the Elden Ring universe from your perspective?
I don't think spirits existed as "immortal essence" until Destined Death was removed. I also haven't said hunting TWLID is Radagon's perogative. If anything, it's the GO Fundamentalist Hunters who do that, and as you said, Radagon is in the tree with Marika, so he's not exactly leading them directly.
I don't know why exactly Marika Shattered the Ring, but Godwyn's death is what "drove her to the brink." The souls that would have gone to the Erdtree are being deterred by Deathroot, so it seems plausible to me that this is a major issue for Marika, and from my understanding, it shows that the Erdtree isn't as central to the Golden Order as many believe it to be.
As for a timeline video, there's a video archived on the Live section of my channel where I went into quite a bit of detail about it a long time ago
@@LastProtagonist Thank you for clarifying! I was wondering if you also did a video concerning what exactly is the Golden Order, as I'm still a bit confused about what Marika's aim with it was. Am I correct, or at least somewhat close, with the assumption that Marika's Golden Order is basically a world without Death, hence why removing Destined Death was important for its creation? And the reason why she initially thought the Erdtree was important to the Golden Order in the first place was because souls of the "dead" would reenter the Erdtree and be reborn later on (plus with Roderika's statement about how spirits gain "immortal essence" with the Erdtree and the creation of the Golden Order)?
And is this why Marika shattered the Elden Ring as you say in the video, as with Godwyn's death and the dispersal of Deathroot souls are no longer entering the Erdtree and are continuing to live without it? So since they are able to eternally live without the Erdtree, this showed Marika that her Erdtree wasn't necessary in the first place?
So all in all, Marika's goal of a world with eternal life was fulfilled without the Erdtree, hence why it was no longer necessary? And Radagon is the one who wants to preserve the Erdtree?
Thank you again for responding!
@@agopessimist1335 I haven't done a video dedicated solely to the Golden Order. It's a very contentious topic in the lore community lol.
However, I do talk about it briefly on my first Fear the Old Lore video for Elden Ring when I talk about the GO, the Crucible, and the Erdtree:
ruclips.net/video/oNe8EtddkS8/видео.html
These are excellent questions
1:55
I think this is a reference to Schuon's notion of the unreality of Absolute Evil.
Put simply, Evil is purely Relative because only God is Absolute, and God is, by definition, Good.
I disagree that gold mask thinks the golden order is perfect. As corhyn said many times in his dialogues gold mask rejects the concept that the golden order is perfect. The one that sees the golden oder as perfect is corhyn, gold mask even accepts the need to burn the erdtree, something that corhyn in his fanaticism cannot accept. Point in fact The age brought by his rune is not called perfect golden order but age of perfect order.
In my opinion gold mask seeks to reject the need of a god as an intermediary between the greater will and the world of the lands between and seeks to remove this middleman from the order. He doesn’t think the golden order is perfect quite the contrary he sees it’s imperfections and seeks to correct them. In his mind the imperfection is the need of a god, who is as imperfect as humans, as the connection to the greater will. Because those gods project their own imperfections into the world order.
So i think gold mask solution is to allow the greater will to determine the order of the world without the interference of a god’s will. Sure at first it seems that the world order would become stagnant at first since no one but the greater will will be able to make further chances. But if changes are necessary the greater will themselves should be able to make those changes. In the end gold mask ending is about having faith in the greater will design and accepting it even when it goes against our own personal preferences and desires. His ending is far from the worse and possibly is the best ending if you have faith in the greater will.
New theory I want to share! What if Melenia and Miquella are imperfect not because they're born from a single entity, but because radagon left the rune of the unborn with renalla
The dude is wearing the sun on his face. Why would that happen?
It is a BLAZING sun, my dude. Notice how he is always PERFECTLY still? He is literally STONED. His body language is spelling out 420. Miyazaki is telling us; you don't fix the order, you get a fix FROM the order. The elden ring is a drug my friend.
Read my comment below (the part about Norman Lockyer)
I find interesting that Goldmask needs to find out about Radagon being Marika being the one true god in order to produce the rune. The game never shows it, so I wonder if the mending rune would include the rune of death or not. Would Goldmask count removing it as fickleness or not?
I believe so. If the rune were truly part of the original Golden Order (as it pretty blatantly seems to have been the case), then Marika's removal of it is at the very least arrogant, if not also fickle in addition. Whether Goldmask's ending is the 'best' or not is surely debatable, yet the Golden Order would at least be whole, and death would likely return to all lands, including the Lands Between, an aspect of the Order that is direly needed.
THAT’S WHY RANNI’S ENDING IS THE BEST ONE LET’S GO SIMPS
goldmask's ending is the conservative ending and shabriri's ending is the progressive ending
but torrent :(
I don’t subscribe to the theory that the elden ring would become unchangeable. If that were true previous orders would have attempted it. On top of that he is a scholar, mathematician and possibly an engineer. Iterating on failures is what they do.
it's simply too unclear. I think that a certain level of ambiguity is good and fitting for this game, but in cases like this it's SO vague that the ending is almost meaningless altogether.
I would like to point out that you still sit in the big chair, you ARE the Elden Lord. What would be the point of having a ruler if the mending rune does everything to decide how society and reality operates? I think that it's very possible that the mending rune repairs the chaos of the world and that it goes back to being a very similar one to what existed before the shattering, but you are in charge aren't you? I think societal issues are YOUR problem, it's up to you whether or not to continue persecuting the Omen and Misbegotten, and it's up to you how the Hunters are utilized.
I was hoping Elden Ring to have a more clear story like Sekiro, tbh. Even Bloodborne's lore makes more sense than Eden Ring's
Disagree big time. The god that is as fickle as men is Radagon parading around as Marika. In the real world religious leaders interject their own beliefs in place of God or whoever.
But Marika is the one that shattered the Elden Ring and reshaped it to her will - not Radagon. He's also not a religious leader of any sort. I don't get where you're coming from.
@@trisbane4086 reshaped? Her shattering the Elden ring didn’t coincide with the removal of the rune of death.
@@trisbane4086 and how is Radagon not a religious leader? He led a religious sect. Did we even play the same game.
@@nottwo I don't know, did we play the same game? Marika reshaped the ring by removing Destined Death - that is a major plot point. She also shattered the ring. As far as we know, all Radagon has done is try to mend it back but failed.
What is the religious sect called that he led?
If the order was perfect, how could Goldmask add to it?
Why did you comment so many times?
@@TheSpectralForce because I think these are central questions that we need to be able to answer if we are going to talk about Goldmask. Ever heard of the sun eaters?
Because all he's adding is a barrier to prevent tampering. He's not doing anything to the Order itself.
@@gunnarschlichting9886 nope, that's the impenetrable thorns. Those are appropriated from the magic side of things. That's a Radagon (and maybe 2 fingers?) thing. They resemble the pattern which form when folks make super alloys. I am not 100% on how that all works, but that's already in place when the game starts. You can see the pattern at the bottom of the Elden Ring version on the start screen (NOT the Vyke one that shows while loading)
He didn’t. He restored it to its original form and then simply made it so it couldn’t be altered
Nah. This ain't it. You are missing the "transcendentalism" and "the Tarnished" pieces
The dude is dressed to be almost naked --- only person dressed like that. Why?