Ranking The Top 25 NBA Players (2024) | #21-25
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2024
- Ranking the Top 25 players of the 2023-24 NBA season, featuring in-depth player profiles and explanations.
Episode 1: • Ranking The Top 25 NBA...
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Dame over jaylen brown is criminal
Cap
@blowc1612 Fox isn't better on both ends, he is the worst offensive player out of the four. Worst passer and the worst shooter
@@blowc1612young is a better playmaker, passer, and overall 3pt shooter, and he’s better at passing out of the pick and roll and better at advantage creating down hill with his feel for the game.
@blowc1612 @blowc1612 I hate playing this card online, but I literally spend three hours almost every day being a trainer.
It's simple, even though Fox is a more diverse scorer and he is less ball dominant. His offensive impact is still less than everyone else's.
Yes he can run the Pick and Roll, pistol action, and DHOs with Sabonis but Trae, Hali, and Dame are so good at the pick and roll its more impactful. When these guys have the ball in the pick and roll they are constantly generating good shots. You can't say that De'Aaron is generating good shots for himself or the team. He is the least efficient player here.
You keep talking about his three point ability but it's not all about percentage and makes, the defenses have to put much more effort to guarding the other three from 25+ feet out. De'Aaron doesn't have that level of pressure, but he makes up for it going to the rim.
Trae, Dame, and Hali are all generating for themselves and their team significantly better looks and Fox's defense isn't enough to make up for that. Also passing isn't assist, it is so much more than that. If you watch the games Fox can't read the floor or manipulate the defense nearly as well as the others can with passing. And once again his defense is making up the offensive gap
this is your opportunity to push elite Derrick White propaganda. Do the right thing
derrick white is a top 0 guard in the nba and it isn’t even close
He’s definitely not a top 25 player
yeah cause he's top 3, and he's not 2 or 3 @@ry_an.
If we are talking top defensive guards, he is certainly in the top 5, maybe top 3 even. As a two-way player, I like him a ton also, but in a vacuum I don't think he makes the top 25, or if he did only barely at the end of the list.
He’s too scared
Brown at 22 is crazy 😅
Don’t think I’d personally have Dame over the first handful of guys, maybe even a few of the HMs. He had his classic Dame moments throughout the year - and maybe he really needs that adjustment period with how weird the Bucks’ season was - but honestly he just felt so underwhelming throughout the year. Love to see him pick it back up though
Dame this season is definitely a question if he's supposed to be on the list. We are discussing him in a vacuum, but I think in a vacuum he is actually worse than on a potentially good place like the Bucks where he might be amazing, we still don't know yet. I would certainly take PG over him, as he seemingly has been called an honorable mention.
@@pinobluevogel6458 agreed, PG and honestly Maxey were the two lads I had in mind from the HM list
@@connorleary9178 Maxey certainly deserves an HM. I think PG is too good to be left off this list though, he was even healthy for most of this season. He fell off in the playoffs though. Without Kawhi, all the defense had to do was focus on him specifically and the paint was even more clogged with Lively and Gafford keeping him out.
dame has a 6'8 wingspan? the more you know
I feel like activity is the only reason why he's a bad defender. He's got quick hands, and is a good athlete. He should at least be a neutral defender if he tried.
And he uses it for nothing lol
Brown deserves to be higher, his defense is criminally underrated, and has only been improving offensively with each season, despite being the co-(super?)star on the best, now champion, team in the league
Yea I really don’t like the way he approached his take on brown. It was slaughtering him to basically say his game is overly reliant on Tatum which is crazy considering Tatum has been the one to shy away when needed and brown has taken every opportunity to show his role and skill and he still gets questioned
I'm going to assume HV didn't want recency bias to effect his placement on him: Alot of these lists I've seen didn't have JB top 15 or top 20 before the playoffs started, and only now are pushing him higher after the chip. I think it's better for HV to keep his placement where he had previously evaluated him in the regular season, rather than just raising him just because.
Agreed but just wait for the rest of the list. There were like 3 players from this list that I think deserve to be in the top 20 but idk cuz I haven’t seen that list yet.
@@KamuiProductsInc I mean to be fair Brown’s placement certainly has been raised by his Finals performances, just not to the extent as other content creators because he’s actually attempting to measure impact rather than just giving boosts for being on a championship-winning teams.
@@blowc1612I don’t see anything wrong with having young over him personally. He averages 25 and 9 for his career and he always shoots at least league average true shooting, that’s pretty damn good and the eye test is good as well with how he manipulates defenders in the pick and roll with no look lobs and skip passes to the corner.
I'm just happy to see Fox in the list at all. I hope he can put his game together a little more next season and improve his stock.
I think I had him at 13 or so in my list last year. His playoff performance against the Warriors was really impressive, being both a lead scorer but also a massive defensive nuisance for the opposing team. If he didn't get injured, they might have won the series even.
I have a tip for Fox for next year, if he wants to look better .. do not play the Pelicans 6 times. (5 times in the season and once in the play-in)
D Fox is becoming tatum with all the settling
He wants to have a long career bro him driving hard every game ain’t gonna win the kings a ring anyways
cringe
@@thafinessekid7879 what?
@@snupedummy yeah i get what your saying but most people make the move to playing less risky as they get older and he is missing out on a big part of possible ways he could score and isnt taking advantage of his athleticism like imagine someone like jokic is switched onto him should he blow past him or try some kind of step back and him attacking the rim opens up his playmaking helps him and the teram score more points and positivly affects the offense
The drop in drives is more due to a change in coaching play style rather than Fox not wanting to drive. Besides, he has had Monk next to him the past 2 years who is also good in the paint. It may be what he does moving forward now that Derozan signed a 3-year contract.
Tyrese is a coaches dream on offense. For being 6ft 5 his defense is impressively bad.
If you are a historic offensive player and also a good learner and quite young, his future seems incredibly bright. If we account for him improving over the next few years, he should be way higher on the list.
@@blowc1612 I'm guessing you're not a fan of Haliburton.
Yes he is a problem defensively, but his impact as a playmaker is very good, it was even the best in the league for a while. He broke some of Jokic records in the last season, which is insane.
I think you're looking at it the wrong way. If not for him, the Pacers aren't even a #1 offense, they wouldn't even be near the play-in game. He's a floor raiser AND a ceiling raiser. We have to give some credit to McConnell and Nembhart for filling in some of the minutes very well, but it is Tyrese Haliburton that elevated the Pacers to this height. (and having some opponents weakened by injury in the playoffs)
@@pinobluevogel6458not a haliburton hater by any means but what makes him better than trae young, from what I see, trae young is a better passer, and he’s better at collapsing the defense and creating advantages and putting 2 on the ball over and over and over to put the defense in rotation and he manipulates defenders better with his passing in the pick and roll. He’s also a better scorer.
@@abtocool6350 Trae Young might be a more experienced and versatile pick and roll player, but I think Haliburton is way more efficient at creating fast and effective offense. Part of it is the way this team s made up, but the Hawks have good players too. I think it is the system and Haliburton makes that engine run better than anyone else can.
@@pinobluevogel6458 I agree with that, and he holds on to the ball less as well but even with that young would most likely be the better one man offensive engine because of the things I pointed out, kinda like a worse version of luka.
Dame dropping 10 whole spots after having his best season last year😢 Hope he bounces back next season
It is sad, but I think we don't need to fear for Dame falling off just yet. This was a very bad year for the Bucks, but like the Mavs with their first season with Kyrie on the team and the adjustment being hard (not for Kyrie, but for Luka and the coach) this started to really pick up the next season, when they were able to complete the roster.
The Bucks, like last year's Mavs, just haven't completed the roster yet, they need a few more good pieces that work really well with what they have. Not guys like Malik Beasley that can shoot really well but have no defensive presence, nor would they need guys like Pat Connaughton that can defend and shoot a little bit but don't offer a lot of dynamic things. Even veteran guys like Jae Crowder that can shoot reasonably well but can only defend by fouling and being overly physical aren't really needed.
They need some actual young, athletic springy players that can defend like dogs and shoot open 3's, or make cuts and transition plays off turnovers. Their best option is to get someone out of the draft, or make a few trades if they have to, sacrificing more depth but getting actual good rotation players in return.
@@pinobluevogel6458 that’s the same problem with every old superstar teams lakers suns warriors it’s hard to get them type dudes
@@snupedummy It is, but if the Mavs can do it with almost no picks in reserve, so can the Bucks. They honestly need just maybe 2 good players to have a solid rotation. If needed they can keep Beasley, Crowder or Connaughton as backups, but they need a second guard to fit with Dame. Then they can start Dame, the mystery guard, Middleton, Giannis and Brook and have Portis, any of the above 3 and another good player off the bench. That is not a bad rotation at all if they can get someone that is a good two-way guard.
Hoop Venue makes my IQ higher just by watching his content
🙏🏻
Kept trying to play devils advocate but you give great reasoning. I probably would have jaylen brown higher but your concerns about him as a main option creator are valid
Early season Tyrese is no question well above Dame but current Tyrese is arguably lower due to his struggles shooting
If assuming full health, he is probably top 20, maybe even top 15?
he steped up in the playoff though🤔
but I agree that early season tyrese was def top 10
@@fleckerichironex6398 he did step up but he still wasn't putting up those numbers that made him in that convo. He never had any of those 20-10 games he was having
@@pinobluevogel6458 yea he was going crazy early-mid season. Before the hamstring injury he was arguably the 4th best pg in the league behind Luka, Brunson and Curry
I'd argue he was above brunson before the hamstring injury. But the injury coincided with brunson going supernova, so after it, brunson was clearly better. I do believe in his ability to get back to that early season level though.
Bro I am so excited for this series of videos
I look forward to this every offseason! Finally able to binge the episodes now
Fox should be way higher, arguably top 15
@@blowc1612how many comments you gonna leave on this video😭😭😭 fox isnt top 15 and you can make objective cases for that your so emotional over dude for what lmfao
How? 😂😂😂😂
brown still being underrated is so f wild
I would like to see top 10 role players
Role player:A starter level player or 6th man that is good at 2-4 traits
Good idea. Still needs to finish this first though ;)
How would you rank the 6 honorable mentions who didn’t make the cut
i get the reasoning but having brown and hali this low is weird
Brown needs to be at least top 20 with that playoff run
@@Unc_Moist yee, i'd have him like 16-18 range, below guys like mitchell but above people like zion bam and wemby
Thanks goat
I got brown a bit over dame after this season but love the list so far
Totally fair!
Maxey should be here, tied for most 50 point games last season cmon
Maybe he will be higher on his list, let's wait and see
@@joaquinmartinez341he’s an HM
I think Maxey is close for making the list, or could maybe sneak in at the end of it. MIP for sure, but not good enough on his own yet to justify his place. Part of what makes him good is the threat of Embiid, but if he improves again the coming season he will probably make the list on his own accord.
“He knows how to turn the game into a track meet”😂
This video felt brutally honest, in a good way. I really respect your opinion and you bring unique/less common/not thought about perspectives into your deductions, and you do it quite often. It is great. Keep up the good work, can't wait to disagree with some of the rankings too 🤣❤🔥
@@blowc1612 you spelt the first word of your essay wrong man we aint off to a good start😂
I’m glad to hear that! And don’t be afraid to voice your disagreements. 😂
@@HoopVenueI wanted to ask, what makes Hali better than young?, isn’t young better at manipulating defenders in the pick and roll with the use of his eyes and making more advanced reads, and isn’t he better at creating advantages with his downhill playmaking with him constantly getting 2 on the ball over and over causing the defense to constantly be in rotation.
Bro the finals mvp being this low is criminal
NBA is stacked man
The Celtics were the most balanced Championship team in decades. No one player stood out or carried.
Not even the nba is amazing. It’s hard to rank him higher cause he’s a second option
@@michiganlover12 A second option that is about as good as the first option. I think even KP, if he had health and more superstar status, would be a first option. That team is so stacked with sub-top players, it is hard to evaluate anyone without the others.
Andre Iguodala, Joe Dumars, Tony Parker, Cedric Maxwell, Kawhi in SA ...
Simply winning Finals MVP doesn't mean you are even the best player on your own team, let alone a top 20 guy
scottie barnes not being on all star/ HM is criminal. to be fair he is all-nba level so I will be expecting him there
Great list so far. I would probably have Trae higher like around 17-18.
agreed
@@blowc1612 how isn't he close to all NBA caliber? he is a top 5 offensive player in the league. that alone makes him all NBA caliber, just wait until Trae young gets a competent roster around him and hell be an mvp candidate. And he has all ready been all nba before in his career lololololol
If Trae didn't get injured this year, he def would've been higher on this list
next season hell be top 12 again
He is so overrated even his team played better without him, I would take at least 10 players before him. He is so ball hog, Dejaunte was better than him. He should be traded how poor he played for Hawks last 2-3 seasons in play-of. Tyrese is better player than him, Siakam and some other players.
Rudy gobert brings so much to team defense. Such a high impact on winning despite the narratives
@@eanbenjammin2032 It’s unfortunate he’s a negative on the other end.
@@blowc1612 watch hoops venues video on rudy gobert vs the suns in the playoffs. He can absolutely switch. No big man in guarding Luka and Jokic on an island and shutting him down. Rudy gets held to a different standard because of his DPOY tag. He’s expected to make every single stop and if he gets scored on in a big moment it’s automatically “rudy is exposed in playoffs”
Could you explain a little more about hali and Trae? When you discussed it, it sounded like you barely had Hali over Trae, only due to size, but then you put them on 2 different tiers?
How did you handle jrue holiday? I think it is difficult because how much of his lower production was him accepting a lesser role on a team with plenty of creation, or just him being older and conserving himself? Yet, it does seem like he can really be great when he needs to be. His plus-minus stuff in Milauwake is crazy, do you think he’s as good as then when he wants?
@@johnrainwater3885 It’s clear his skillset really complements championship-caliber teams well. The role he’s taken on the Celtics really suits him well, though it’s hard to make a case for Holiday over teammates like Tatum/Brown/White.
I like the Trae pick he’s been pretty underrated recently honestly though I think Jamal Murray is in this tier and I kinda think Dame is worse than every other player named in the top 25 plus I’d value Murray’s playoff rising as I think everyone ahead of him are a bit inconsistent this year was the first one that he felt inconsistent or straight up bad
Trae top 15
@@blowc1612 he shot the 2nd highest percentage of pull up 3s lol
@@blowc1612 trae is top 15 pal
Dame ☠️
While I can really see the reasoning behind this, I think if you value certain traits a little higher, they would have different positions. Personally I value defense and playmaking a lot more, as do I much prefer the massive impact that Haliburton has on the incredible Pacers offense. I think I would have him even higher than the 20-25 range for that reason alone. In some cases he put up historic offensive stats, stuff that even Jokic hasn't done yet. I think he is a legit top 20 player if only for his impact.
While I love Jalen Brown a lot more than I do Tatum, I think he is a little bit too low in comparison too. I would take his two-level impact over any of these outside of Haliburton, so if I would rank these 5 only in this position of 20-25, it would be:
Hali > Brown > Trae > Fox > Lillard.
Looking forward to the 15-20 range. I already know my favorite player isn't going to be up there, but I'm guessing my second favorite will be for sure!
Totally fair way of looking at it!
My guess for the 15-20 range would be Paul George, kyrie, bam, donavon Mitchell, ant and maybe Wemby in some order.
Scratch pg, I forgot he was on the hm list.
@@blowc1612 yeah in my other comment I said scratch pg, he was in the honorable mentions I believe, and I would be surprised if Ant was in the top 10, he still has clear flaws in his offensive game. He’s a below average midrange shooter and his playmaking still needs work, he’s a reactionary passer who makes basic reads and that got exposed in the postseason. I personally would have him somewhere in the 14-17 range.
@@blowc1612 You are aware that that zero defense team got into the ECF and actually played some close games to the eventual champion. A team that has two all-star type talents, one of which is Haliburton. You must really hate him with a vengeance to go out of your way to try and deflate his performance.
It is not that I'm a fan, or invested in the Pacers or Haliburton specifically, I just recognise his strengths, which are very real. Yes, he can't defend and is certainly much worse than other stars on that end. However, if you provide a massive offensive spark, that is worth a lot if it converts into winning. The Pacers overperformed for many reasons, but I have enough trust in that team to see the be better next year.
1. Nikola Jokic
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo
3. Luka Doncic
4. Joel Embiid
5. Shai Gilgeous Alexander
6. Anthony Edwards
7. Stephen Curry
8. Jayson Tatum
9. Anthony Davis
10. LeBron James
11. Devin Booker
12. Kevin Durant
13. Jalen Brunson
14. Kawhi Leonard
15. Donovan Mitchell
16. Victor Wembanyama
17. Jaylen Brown
18. Paolo Banchero
19. Tyrese Haliburton
20. Zion Williamson
21. Trae Young
22. Ja Morant
23. Tyrese Maxey
24. Kyrie Irving
25. Bam Adebayo
Are we gonna talk about how he spent 4 minutes on De’arron ??
Not a C fan but JB is way better then dame a crime to put him under dame
Totally fair! Dame’s a tough one to rank.
Man fox got an elite mid range bro TS% nasty because it weighs ft
FTs are a part of the game and getting to the line is good for your team!
@@HoopVenue guys like Embiid/Trae\Harden flop so much and refs tone that down in playoffs which is why they struggle in those setting. Hence since u can’t perform when lights brightest you not the best
@@stevenwhiters8928 And what about a guy like Jimmy who gets to the line even more in the playoffs? As his game elevates. 🤔
@@HoopVenue anomaly. Exception to the rule
Dame said he was not in shape, doc said it too. 24 7 in a not in shape season. See you next year 🤷♂️
They solely blame him on defense, when players prefer attacking Beasley over him. Blame him okay, solely? Hell nah
Brown is a great number two
Just interested in seeing where's jalen brunson, Because all the heavy offensive and terrible defensive guards seem to be low
He’s top 16
Brunson isn't terrible defensively. He is still the weakest defender on his roster, but he is much better than all these guys shown here. (except Brown ofcourse)
Also, he is probably the best small guard in the league, having the most production. He might not be better than Curry in a vacuum, but he is shiftier, way more resilient and just downright more effective in his minutes.
Ranking The Top 25 NBA PGs (2024) | #21-25
If the main criterion of this list is the value for the team in the run for a championship, then the position of Brown is questionable, to say the least. He was the main character in the Celtics team in the second part of the RS and whole PO and him being the MVP of the finals is not a suprise. Especially when you put him in line with guys with no defence.
Damn just found your channel and was really digging your analysis until you put Jaylen Brown behind Dame and Kyrie. It's kind of a joke but also a little bit indefensible. Like maybe if you're only looking at the stat sheet, but you clearly have more basketball knowledge than that....
Imma guess 16-20 are a combination of Butler, Wemby, Kyrie, Bam, and Zion
Butler shouldn't be in the top 25. Maybe you can argue he is if he was healthy, but he didn't play enough minutes and certainly not enough in the playoffs to make up for his mediocre regular season stats.
@@pinobluevogel6458 Dropping from 11 to not even in consideration for the Top 25 is quite a drop though, and don’t think he was that much worse than last year.
@@ZachNguyen-vp7nz If he was at 11 last year, that was way too high. I think Butler is great and he has a top winning mindset, but functionally he isn't as good as a lot of other top talent. It is his playoff rising that always kept him in the discussion as a great player and he still is a great player, just not as good as all the other massively stacked talent.
@@pinobluevogel6458 Exactly. You would have to try to project the playoff rising into the equation. Not saying he’s a game-breaking talent, but he’s a solid two-way player who has been consistently around a 11-20 player for this large stretch in his career.
@@ZachNguyen-vp7nz He is an odd player that is very hard to judge accurately. His statistics (especially in the regular season) aren't spectacular, he doesn't impact winning a lot in those situations, but he is a two-way player and often the best player on his team. However in playoff situations it can change into being the best player on the floor.
Also, his game doesn't translate very well to what other players do, as he is basically a freethrow, short midrange monster offensively, but doing a ton of very tiny smart things that affect the game, in addition to being a very good defender. There is no other player in the league that compares, except maybe Draymond, but he is far too limited offensively and better defensively.
i wouldnt have haliburton. his handle not being very strong can make it hard to self create and get into positions to score and playmake. the halfcourt offense just isnt good enough imo. still top 30 tho.
I promise you Hali has no issues getting into positions to playmake. Obviously scoring is a different story, but he can create a shot for his teammates in any spot on the court.
W so far though I'd move Brown over Dame as of right now. Dame seems like he's still getting use to being the 2nd option/ 1B in comparison to a guy who has starred as a 2nd option already in his career. I get the reasoning though.
Definitely a fair opinion!
do you think its possible dame could get back to a weak mvp level or has really he regressed that much? I feel like in a much better situation which i think milwaukee will be in next year dame could be dame again.
@@blowc1612ur dumb he came into the season out of shape due to not working out the whole offseason because he didn’t want to get injured before getting traded he was clearly less explosive than he was last year watch film
🐐
Jaylen Brown over guys like Trae, Hali, PG, Gobert, and etc. love to see it.
I think PG is a little better, we haven't seen him yet.
@@pinobluevogel6458PG is not better anymore and he was listed as an HM
@@johnrouguine3090 I know he was, but that doesn't mean I agree with it :)
I think Brown for example has defensive edge over him. He is way more athletic, a little stronger, despite being smaller. He can certainly stay in front of guys better than PG. However PG is also no slouch on defense, he has very good size and speed to keep up with guys, covers gaps between two players extremely well, is smarter as a team defender and while he doesn't make defensive plays often, he certainly is still capable of doing so.
If you look at PG's scoring and playmaking package though, he is much better. I think I can maybe even convince myself to say that he is a better overall player, despite falling off a bit in the playoffs. I like haliburton better because of his massive impact metrics, but otherwise I would have PG in this 20-25 range and Hali and Brown in the catagory above that.
I think Jaylen Brown should be 1-5 spots higher
Dame should be a Heat man. If Dame was a Heat they would have gone to the ECF still lost to Boston but in the ECF none the less
Dame averaged 32 the season prior, his last with Portland, so this makes me think this past season was a bit more of a fluke for him rather than a complete fall off
Dame won’t be writing back next season
Brown passing or paul george?
Fox so underrated man only PGs u can argue better is curry Brunson ja. Rest are equal or worse
No maxey is crazy
Great video but I personally think Trae Young is better than all of these guys on this list so far. He put some ridiculous numbers with a very weak supporting cast.
I would put brown higher he was the Celtic best and efficient and most consistent scorer and he was the second best defender in the playoff and look like the best in the finals and he was crazy clutch I would have him top 15 like he had Tatum that kinda played bad to his standards he didn’t have kd or in Murray case jokic not he had to bail Tatum out on both ends more that Tatum bail out like at least for this playoff brown was the best and most efficient scorer on the team and he was tied with jrue as the best defender
trae and 2024 dame over gobert is ridiculous bruh
Trae young should be top 15
brown is way higher
Fmvp should be at least top 15
Jaylen Brown this Low is criminal, would likely average 25+ on literally every other Team and he should have been in a all defense team. Delusional
25 points on average to low efficiency and minimal playmaking isn't particularly good.
He's a good on ball defender against bigger guards and wings when he's locked in (which isn't every night). But even though his help defense is improved, it's certainly not close to all defense level. He might not be a top 5 defender on his own team let alone as good as guys like Herb, Caruso and McDaniels
Brown is kind of the ultimate test case for how closely someone watches games because he's good at the things that are very obvious but weaker in all the areas that are more nuanced (and tend to be much more important)
Delusional is a bit much, but I do agree he can be higher on the list. Where I would like to see him is very close to where Tatum ends up, as they are basically about the same level of player, just with a slightly different build and specialization. Tatum is more suited guarding bigger players near the basket, Brown is a little quicker on the perimeter. They are both decent playmakers and good scorers, not too far apart.
On any other team, they would be great starting level players, but on the Celtics they are better as that team has no distinct clear #1 lead creator or starplayer, so whoever is the most open can just initiate.
@@pinobluevogel6458 The playmaking gap is pretty significant and Tatum is probably a top 3 wing in terms of help defense whereas Brown is closer to solid. Plus Tatum is a more efficient scorer.
It's not an accident Tatum has been first tean All-NBA the last 3 years and Brown hasn't
Although it is a little odd JB made second team in 23 even though he was much better in 24 without making All-NBA. But All-NBA in the modern NBA is often 50% who got hurt and who didn't
@@michaelahurt I think it is a little unfair to Brown to call him a less consistant scorer as I think he is better at stepping up in the playoffs so far. Small sample size, but still I think playoff performance matters. Tatum has just been very inefficient at scoring in the playoffs and even his regular season statistics, while slightly higher volume and slightly better 3 point efficiency .. they just don't jump off the page.
I'm pretty sure he is a more versatile player overall, with his size being incredibly suited to guarding up and having a decent increase in playmaking potential, but the versatility in offense and better 1v1 coverage that Brown showed in the playoffs are just too enticing to keep him from being too far behind Tatum. Ideally I would have them near eachother, as they are much closer in how they function than for example comparing either of them to PG, who you could argue is much better, or much worse .. depending on what you look at.
I know it isn't a great example, as most people think PG is a bit inconsistant, but his statistics have been vastly superior to the J's over the last season and he was actually pretty healthy too. I just think of him as a true superstar, while the J's are more like half a level below it, because of how egalitarian their team is and because of the lack of consistancy on offense.
@@pinobluevogel6458 I didn't say he was less consistent. I said less efficient.
But Brown's offense has been more resilient in the playoffs and he generally _is_ more consistent because he takes more twos and shoots better inside the arc. His efficiency hasn't dropped at all the last 3 years in the playoffs whereas Tatum's definitely has.
(Although most of that was his three point shooting this year which is just variance -- but we pick and chose. When Luka shoots 24% in a series it gets hand waived but when Tatum does it it's because he's 'not clutch' ... The reality is there's just a lot of volatility in small samples and we all over index on the results.)
I agree Brown has closed the gap though. I probably wouldn't have had him top 40 last year. I was super low on him. But he's made real improvements finishing with his left, ball handling, passing/playmaking and his defense effort was more consistent. He's a significantly better player than last year.
But I'm also not convinced he could make the necessary plays against the kinds of coverages #1 guys see.
So while the Jays function similarly, teams don't treat them the same, which is telling.
I completely agree about PG though. I thought there was a good argument that he was better than both Jays until this season. (The difference in rim pressure at this stage of their careers is too much to overcome)
I've said all playoffs that Tatum isn't a one but he can play the role well enough to allow everyone else to slot into _their_ roles. He takes the hit to his efficiency by being overburdened but it creates better team wide results because everyone else gets to play within themselves. Including Brown.
Jaylen's offensive diet was much healthier this year. He didn't force as a much and didn't settle as much and made it a point to attack in transition.
But I'm still well aware that if you asked him to do what Devin Booker does it would get ugly fast. Brown at his best is a play finisher and straight line driver, not an advantage creator.
To me the best players help their teammates play better. If you increase everyone's efficiency by 1% that's 4% which is better than your own efficiency being 1% higher.
Same on defense. It's why I'll value team defense and rim protection almost 3:1 vs on ball defense (unless it's like Caruso/Herb type on ball defense) because it just has a bigger impact. If you make that rotation or are in that gap you turn a layup (70%) into a jumpshot (40%) but a good man defender might make a guy shoot 40% instead 45%
And Jaylen excels at the individual parts (scoring, man defense) and not all the other stuff.
Blud about to have goburt over dame 💀
He was in the honorable mentions brother 😂
@@HoopVenue sorry brotha I got attention span of a goldfish
@@blowc1612 nobody reading allat
@@blowc1612 you take time to write all this and call someone yapper, youre the only one yapping, you dont get paid to hate like that. You're the one wasting time doof
Not sure what team that wanted to win a chip would take Dame over Brown - like, Dame gets you more late game heroics, but Brown has that, and Dame's a traffic cone, while Brown is one of the best wing defenders in the league. Feel like this placement is trying to balance angry Boston fans and angry Boston fan haters. Not sure you landed that plane.
I respect your stance, but I can assure you reactions from others have no bearing whatsoever on how I rank players.
These are all my opinions, regardless of how others feel!
@@HoopVenue I wasnt being too serious, no worries.
Brown isn't close to the offensive engine that Dame is simple as that. Dame forces the other team to change their whole defensive schemes. As a 2nd or 3rd option than yeah picking brown wouldn't be a bad choice.
@@thenorthremembers728 Cool, nothing you said contradicts anything I said - if a team wanted to win, they'd want Brown. If they want an offensive system that delivers a 23-42 career playoff record, Dame wouldnt be a bad choice.
I don’t like the call to Brown, literally the guy was the best player for the Celtic championship
my thing with trae is that his playoff sample size hasn’t been great in recent years and he’s played some really elite defenses. i think his versatile shot making vs most defenses is pretty effective and haliburton faced NO elite defenses, every single one missed their anchor. his playstyle is also unsustainable in the playoffs because pace slows down and even if they do keep it up their defense suffers immensely they had the worst defense itl last year as much as people keep bringing up the offense. haliburton is quite worse than trae at everything besides some off ball traits. i get that he’s more scalable but some of that is coaching and talent. in the playoffs, haliburton’s halfcourt creation can get exposed since he has a worse in between game, less dynamic handle and not great burst either. JB i need to see a larger sample size of his playmaking and defensive consistencies. i also don’t see how a 2 is over a 1 like trae and i’m someone who values scalability A LOT.
i wouldn’t have an issue if trae was on the same tier at least but he’s only all star level
There's no way paul George doesn't make top 25 but Trae young does? How!!??
I think PG’s limitations really came to light against LA. He has no burst at this point in his career and struggled to beat even Luka on drives. Forced to rely on a really tough diet of shots, and he’s a much better shooter off the catch so his percentages were very poor.
@HoopVenue you just described all those thing in trae young he's straight defense liability
@@imhere283 and he’s a top 6 offensive player so it doesn’t really matter.
@@imhere283 Trae’s one of the 5-7 best passers of the 2020s, a much better pull up shooter both from mid range and 3, and has an elite floater to counter those same driving issues.
We’re just talking about a completely different stratosphere of offensive creator.
Trae Young is far better than george. podcast P chokes in the playoffs every year or misses the playoffs entirely with injuries.
fox is honestly to low
to high. what has he done in his 7 year career. miss the playoffs 6 of 7 years
@@patriciaeagles7871ah yes, Fox was terrible last year because he's been on a bad team most of his career. Why didn't I think of that genius reasoning.
Tbh i wouldn't have dame on this list.
Fair! He definitely had some low moments this season.
Hali at 23?
In my opinion Tryess Maxey is simply a better Fox
@@josephmeluskey4109 he plays with Embiid dawg
Haliburton took a team missing their third best player to the conference finals. Were it not for the last minute fumble and some pretty heavy ref intervention, Pacers would have taken home court advantage from the Celtics
Idk how he isn’t top 10. I think you don’t know ball
@@dumb_as_rocks That’s because defense matters
@@ZachNguyen-vp7nzthen why is Luka gonna be #2
@@dumb_as_rocks Luka’s defense has improved and he’s a different level of offensive player. I agree with you in that I’d probably have Haliburton higher, Top 10 is just too rich
@@ZachNguyen-vp7nzexactly. Hali was top 10 during the IST, but since then he’s dropped a lot
@@benebacher2470 He was in Top 10 contention; wouldn’t say he was Top 10
Dame can't be ahead of jaylen brown this year...not this year
Totally fair! I struggled with the Dame placement.
i hate when people put young in front of fox.......so sad. give me fox 100 times over young
jaylen brown is too low he is my book a top 10 player but to other he should be top 15; fox should be above lilard
Not trying to be overly critical here, but you say Jaylen Brown is a top 10 player but he should be top 15 as well. Where exactly would you have him in your ideal list?
Assuming fully healthy, I can name a few guys I would take over him in no particular order:
Luka, Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, SGA, Curry, Brunson, KD, Ant, Zion, AD, Kawhi
we can discuss if he is better than Tatum, Booker, Bam, Kyrie, Haliburton, PG, but he wouldn't be in my top 10 and land somewhere in the 13-20 range.
@@pinobluevogel6458 How do you think the Brown > Tatum argument would work (assuming we’re talking reasonably)?
@@ZachNguyen-vp7nz I think I said it in another comment thread somewhere.
Brown is a slightly worse playmaker and his scoring is a bit lower volume and lower efficiency from 3, but more efficient from the floor. (he finishes way more often at the rim)
Defensively, I think they are somewhat equal, Tatum is definitely way stronger and able to protect the rim, which increases his defensive impact, but Brown can lock down a single player way better, especially the faster type that are typical scoring players in the league.
What puts Brown way closer in my opinion is his playoff performance. Both him and Tatum have more volatile and inconsistant playoff scoring, but I do think Brown does a slightly better job at elevating his play than Tatum does. Most people value Tatum as the better of the two and I'm willing to concede that, but I think they aren't too far apart and certainly not worlds apart as I expect them to be in this list.
Chet ain’t make the cut💔
he will next season
so does that make chet top 20
No. Though next year he might be a good candidate for sure.
Prediction for 16-20
20: Kyrie
19: Paolo
18: Zion
17: Wemby
16: Sabonis
@@ryanamburgy2791 Paul George & Maxey are HMs
@@ZachNguyen-vp7nz ok I didn't see the HMs. KAT and Paolo then?
@@ryanamburgy2791 I’d probably lean towards Kyrie & Bam being on the list, possibly Jimmy.
@@ZachNguyen-vp7nz definitely not Bam or Jimmy, Kyrie maybe but I think Jaylen Brown is just clearly better than Kyrie. That being said, I could see Kyrie being over KAT.
@@ZachNguyen-vp7nz my 15-11 is some combination of Lebron, AD, Booker, Donovan Mitchell, and Kawhi btw.
Reply and guess the other 2 names⬇️
kyrie and hali
hali and bam
You can’t rank a freshly-minted finals mvp outside the top 20 bro I’m sorry. I think you should weight dominating at the highest level much higher compared to guys who put up big regular season numbers but went to Cancun months earlier.
Jaylen brown and Trae should be higher imo. i got jaylen like 16t h and trae 11th, the reason i have him this high is because he is a top 4 offensive player in the association
@@blowc1612trae had better defensive of season then Dejounte Murray but you probably think Murray is a good defender 💀. Trey is easily top 20 and I got him around 15th because of how dynamic he is offensively. And what about Lukas defense????? It’s worse than Traes
Jaylen a top 15 player right now
You could argue top 20, but he’s definitely not top 15
@@akz2628aside from the old guard, who's better, or as available?
@@akz2628top 16. I can name 15 guys better not 20 tho
@@Strategic_Reformer Discounting health, there are quite a few guys I would take over him .. but maybe the 20-25 range is a bit too low for him on the list. I would have him somewhere in the 10-20 range, about where I would put Tatum, maybe a spot or two below him to not make other people mad.
Jaylen Brown seems too low. I thought he'd be close to the top 15, especially after that playoff run he just had.
Jaylen brown over dame fs
Yeh dame is a joke,but sure why not for everyone else,brown could be a bit higher tbf
Haliburton is too low in my opinion. His playoff plus minus despite playing on a bum hamstring is great. Also, a top 3 passer in the league with a 40% jumper on pull-ups & spot ups while being a great off ball player is fantastic
His hamstring was fine he said it himself
In some ways he does things with his playmaking that Jokic and Luka do not. Jokic is by far the most efficient playmaker, incredibly smart and precise with his passing with literally near perfect pass completion. Luka is the most dynamic playmaker, as he is by far the most elite scorer and also makes the most no-look and misdirection passes that completely fool defenses. Haliburton though, has amazing passing as well, is incredibly low turnover, but also increases the pace of his team massively when he's on the court. I think in terms of raw passing and impact with playmaking I would take Jokic, Luka and Haliburton as #1, #2 and #3.
I still think the difference between 1 and 2 is miniscule, while Haliburton is a clear 3 in my view. Then there is quite a large gap until the next one on the list, who is probably Trey Young or James Harden (unless I'm forgetting someone)
@@pinobluevogel6458 I’m in the same boat. We have 1-4 the same. I think I’d take LaMelo or Lebron at 5 though over harden
@@caleb_lane Sure, I can live with that. Harden might be a slightly less brilliant playmaker, but the threat of his scoring is certainly good enough to help him be more effective at it than he actually is.
Kyrie isnt better than Trae or Jaylen Brown. He better be outside of the top 25
Agreed trae has already peaked higher than Kyrie and he’s only getting better
Kyrie Irving is most defintely on the list. I would personally take Brown over him, but Trae certainly not. Trae is a slightly better passer and more versatile playmaker. However, effectively Kyrie isn't much worse as he offers amazing pace instead that also translates through his passing. Added to that he has much increased scoring efficiency on all levels to go with it. He is also a much better defender .. still a negative in most situations, but certainly much better than any of these guys not named Jaylen Brown.
Kyrie is just clearly worse than Jaylen Brown, he should not be on here.
@@ryanamburgy2791 It isn't clear, as they are wildly different players. If you value offense, consistancy, shooting prowess, ball handling and playmaking .. Kyrie is massively better in all those aspects. If you value defense or overall effectiveness, you should have Jaylen Brown as the better player.
I think I value defense enough to take Brown higher on a top 25 list, but it is definitely not 'clear', because you can focus on different aspects of a player.
@@pinobluevogel6458 trae is the much better passer and better player
I was hoping Jaylen Brown was gonna be higher
THIS CRAZY CAUSE BROWN BETTER THAN TATUM💯🤷🏾♂️
@@waff6ixNo he isnt. Tatum couldnt hit a jump shot and still led the team in pt rebound and assist along with being their most versatile defender.
@@waff6ix
He's really not.
Brown went crazy on D in the playoffs, but Tatum is the Mario of the NBA (smash Bros reference) dude just does everything , and does it well.
@@JordanMichael23CA Mario doesn't win games tbh, it is White, KP and Jrue that win their games when it counts. What Tatum makes up with his size, great defense and a bit better passing, I don't think compensates for his mediocre shooting and lack of execution in the clutch. At least Jaylen Brown is a defensive playmaker, a better dog on 1v1 and a much more explosive scorer. He has serious flaws, but so has Tatum. If anything they are much closer than people tend to believe.
The strength of Boston lies in their very high starter talent level, where all 5 players are top NBA players that can all play both offense and defense to a high level and (just as important) they have a sound strategy and stick to it. Just the seemingly small change of letting White and Jrue initiate offense more in the clutch improved their winning by a massive amount.
Jaylen and Jayson, while amazingly talented, just didn't execute the gameplan very well in those high pressure situations, so they switched more to their pointguards who are way more disciplined and less prone to falling into iso ball nonsense. Even relying on KP is a massive difference as this guy is just built for it, he is very consistant. Only on rare occasions, when he is injured or hounded very physically, does he underperform.
Keeping that all in mind, I would rank Jaylen Brown as an equal or (if you must) ever so slightly below Tatum, whereever they end up on the list.
That is because Tatum took 3 more shots per game than Brown, and was only able to beat brown by one point. Assist wise it was because Tatum had the ball in his hands twice as much as brown, but Tatum was only able to beat Brown by to assist per game. He only had these stats because he had a lot more opportunities than Brown; however, statistic wise, they were there neck to neck....
What a JOKE #22 JB ? Every year improve his game & enter his 2nd year PRIMES next season 😂😅😂😅😂😅😂😅😂😅😂😅😂😅😂😅😂😅😂😅😂😅😂😅😂😅😂😅😂😅😂😅😂😅😂😅😂😅😂😅
Jaylen Brown is better than Dbook tho 🤷
Dame didnt look fit or as into it compared to his portland days
jaylen brown in 21 is an ass take
putting a finals mvp in 22?
and putting dame over him is bad brazy
Wack ranking! Jaylen Brown deserves to be a lot higher....but I guess people will never forget game 7 of last year, no matter if he was the main reason that the Celtics won the championship this year....according to you he is a number 2, but he gives you more points than a lot of number 1 that the offense revolves around them, while this almost never happens with Brown, plus the guy play defense....
@@francisco2525 He is a textbook secondary creator (in terms of offensive load/box creation). Don’t think Game 7 of last year is really that imprinted as he is definitely accounting for the improvements he’s made since then.
I don’t really care what happened in game 7 last year.
As I don’t think whether the Celtics won or lost this year has any bearing on how I view his strengths and weaknesses as a player.
@@HoopVenueur analysis of him is horrible u rank him that low cause u need to see if he can be a number 1 option ts don’t matter they won
what in tarnation. how on Gods earth do you have jaylen brown who was the ecf mvp, finals mvp at 22. you but you have zion who doesn’t play basketball games ahead of him. not your best work
Bro I stop listening when man put Trae over fox
Trae young way to low damn i aint even trying to be bias jaylen brown better than trae young 😂😂😂
The defense holding him back as always
Obv your going to say that your a hawks fan
I'm not a Hawks fan, but I'n a little surprised to see him this low. What has happened though, he hasn't been able to drag his team to anything serious yet, while people still expect that of him. He has some top indicators as an offensive threat, but also bottom indicators as a defensive liability. It is still a large net positive, but despite the expectation no longer as high as people have had him in previous years.
@@ZachNguyen-vp7nz luka is a horrible defender but he will probably have him top 3, so it dont make sense
@@patriciaeagles7871 Luka is a much improved defender (Celtics series targeted his limitations as an on-ball defender). Combine that with being a strong MVP offensive player (2nd best behind Jokic) and he’ll be pretty high in these rankings (probably either 3rd or 4th for my money but some argument for 2nd).
jaylen brown is wayyy too low
Crazy having the ECF MVP and Finals MVP at number 22 is fucking crazy. What a trash take. Sorry that’s just not high enough. I’m not even a Boston fan
Check my preview video, accolades are not factored into player evaluations.
@@HoopVenue I can appreciate the accolades not being taken into account but playoff success and performance definitely should and that’s how he won those awards. He was arguably the best 2 way player in the playoffs and that can’t be lower than Dame just to start but several others on the other parts of the list.