Ooof that is a really tough no-call. If the umps on the field has the same "tag attempt" location as you, this seems clearly out of the base path. I wonder if they judged the start to be later?
That is a case of "does the third base umpire want to get out of the stadium alive tonight?" If that ump calls him out as soon as he crosses the third base box, every single person on the Gigantes bench will be coming after him - including Siri.
You have to remember though, the Dominican League is played far closer to the equator than the MLB leagues, so a 3' leeway could be a lot different. 🤔🙄😃
Apparently they were using the wrap around rule. That's where if you get far enough out of the base path, it's considered back to within 3 feet. He was out by a mile, which is about how far he ran. Have a Merry Christmas and Happy Off Season.
Initially I thought that that leeway would be appropriate here but his momentum stopped before he made his way to home and before the tag attempt, he chose to run way out of the base path, and potentially twice, so... Kind of baffling it was no called.
The only thing I can assume beyond them not knowing the rule correctly... He went that far out to avoid the basecoach/interference and let it go... beyond that.. if you lose the coach I gotta have an out there.
Imperial to metric conversion error... 3m ≠ 3ft. Although to be fair, as soon as he throws the ball to home, the new baseline is adhered to by home plate umpire...
OUT..obviously. A teeball umpire would have got this one right. Spirit of the rule it isnt even close. You dont have to make baseball geometry to know this is an out.
If the location tag attempted was based on that graphic, I would say he ran more than three feet. However, that may not be the case if the umpire believed the attempt occurred further in the rundown.
Lindsay, I get that you don't want to give your judgement on a close call, but this really isn't even close. You really should have explicitly said that this runner was CLEARLY out of the base path, by closer to 20' than 3'. The way you left this video will leave some viewers still wondering whether the safe call may have been the right call, when clearly it wasn't. After the throw was made to F2 and the runner jukes to avoid F2's tag, now that's a much closer call. I'd say he went more than 3' out of his path there too, but this involves some judgment, and if you don't want to offer your opinion, that's fine. However, the initial out call after the runner passes 3b and heads halfway to the 3b dugout should have been made without any question. Have some guts and make the call when it's obvious; we'll all respect you more for it.
I'm curious about an about a minor league ejection in a game between the Durham Bulls and the Nashville Sounds that happened earlier this year. The video I saw this on was titled "Runner Advances During Pitching Change". The Sounds manager was ejected for arguing the runner placement. It was a very unusual situation. I couldn't figure out if there was a base award for an illegal action by the defensive team. The situation was very unusual .
That’s gotta be an out. There’s a clear attempt made near third base and Siri runs halfway to the dugout in an obvious attempt to get out of reach of the tag (I don’t think he was trying to avoid any coaches or other obstructions). I love Siri as a player but that’s a definite out 😂
That's a text book example of the runner outside of his path to his next base. Should have been ruled out immediately by the 3b umpire who put it on the plate man to make a call. Bad umpiring
I think this is what a lot of people assume "tag attempt" means when the rule is quoted. Seen tons of comments to this play essentially saying, "Where is the tag attempt?" clearly thinking that fielder not bothering to wave his glove at thin air = no tag attempt.
@@PatAndOrRick It's another one of those ambiguous rules, in my opinion. Just like on when a half-swing is a strike, or when the batter-runner loses their overrun protection at first base for making an attempt to advance to second base.
@vincentwendt720 except in this instance, there is in fact an accompanying MLB Umpire's Manual clarification that a tag attempt means "the fielder is moving to tag the runner, no physical tag attempt is required to call a runner out for leaving the basepath."
Given the camera angle, it is difficult for me to see whether the runner ever touched third base with his hand or foot. If he didn't, then he'd be out for running the bases out of order.
That's gonna be U3 at third base. Plate ump would have the call when Siri avoided the catcher (which IMHO was CORRECTLY ruled "safe"...if only because Siri was in that position because he ran so far away from the third baseman). So in short, should have been out of the base path at third base but, if it wasn't, then the plate's call of safe for the play with the catcher was proper since the base path at that time started so "outside" the line.
What about this? When the tag attempt was initially started, was he heading home, or was he heading back to third? If the latter, at what point does he start heading home, is that point considered a "change in orientation towards the bag", and when does THAT tag attempt start?
You're making the mistake of thinking a "change in orientation" of the runner necessitates a new tag attempt for a runner's base path to be established. The rule does not state the the path is established when a tag attempt "starts" simply when a tag attempt "occurs" which can be an ongoing thing. In other words, the tag attempt that "occurs" while the runner is oriented to 3rd still "occurs" after the runner switches direction towards home.
@@PatAndOrRick But Lindsay says "the base path resets when the runner changes their base orientation...". It's not clear to me what the definition of "base orientation" is. If "changing which base they are attempting to run toward" counts as "changin their base orientation" that it seems like that might be an argument in favor of a correct safe call. 1) Runner is attempting to retreat to 3B after overslide 2) Fielder initiates tag attempt, establishing base path between runner and 3B 3) runner retreats from 3B along establsihed base path 4) Runner decides to attempt to take home instead [here's the part that I don't know for sure], constituting a change in base orientation, base path is reestablished due to ongoing tag attempt between runner's new position and home 5) runner proceeds to home along NEW base path. Now, watching the replay it's arguable whether he was ever trying to actually make it back to third or not, but full speed I could definitely see the umpire assuming his default destination would be to regain the base he just slid past, so if that's what the ump was thinking then that makes sense, assuming my definition of "base orientation" holds here.
@@swankgd the base path (regardless of which base he is going to) is a direct line from the runner's position at the point it is established to the base he is going to. From the point the runner decides he is going home here, with the fielder attempting to tag him, he cannot deviate more than 3ft from a direct line from his position at that specific point to the plate. Instead, he runs about 15ft into foul territory. It's as simple as that.
Citation? Pretty sure the distance from the rubber to the plate and the baselines are all on the English system of measurements…you know, as the rules require.
You do realize she provides analysis of 2,430 regular season MLB games yes? And typically within 2 days of their completion? Be a bud. Give her a break, please.
The only way he wasn't out of his established base path is if the rule stated "three miles" instead of "three feet".
Ooof that is a really tough no-call. If the umps on the field has the same "tag attempt" location as you, this seems clearly out of the base path.
I wonder if they judged the start to be later?
Runner ran out of his base path twice
That is a case of "does the third base umpire want to get out of the stadium alive tonight?" If that ump calls him out as soon as he crosses the third base box, every single person on the Gigantes bench will be coming after him - including Siri.
Ive been waiting for you do to a video on this!
You have to remember though, the Dominican League is played far closer to the equator than the MLB leagues, so a 3' leeway could be a lot different. 🤔🙄😃
Amerigo Vespucci all up in here…🙄
Apparently they were using the wrap around rule. That's where if you get far enough out of the base path, it's considered back to within 3 feet.
He was out by a mile, which is about how far he ran.
Have a Merry Christmas and Happy Off Season.
Initially I thought that that leeway would be appropriate here but his momentum stopped before he made his way to home and before the tag attempt, he chose to run way out of the base path, and potentially twice, so...
Kind of baffling it was no called.
The only thing I can assume beyond them not knowing the rule correctly... He went that far out to avoid the basecoach/interference and let it go... beyond that.. if you lose the coach I gotta have an out there.
Welcome back team! When I get your new videos I know Baseball is just over the horizon. Missed you!
Imperial to metric conversion error... 3m ≠ 3ft.
Although to be fair, as soon as he throws the ball to home, the new baseline is adhered to by home plate umpire...
OUT..obviously. A teeball umpire would have got this one right. Spirit of the rule it isnt even close. You dont have to make baseball geometry to know this is an out.
If the location tag attempted was based on that graphic, I would say he ran more than three feet. However, that may not be the case if the umpire believed the attempt occurred further in the rundown.
Lindsay, I get that you don't want to give your judgement on a close call, but this really isn't even close. You really should have explicitly said that this runner was CLEARLY out of the base path, by closer to 20' than 3'. The way you left this video will leave some viewers still wondering whether the safe call may have been the right call, when clearly it wasn't.
After the throw was made to F2 and the runner jukes to avoid F2's tag, now that's a much closer call. I'd say he went more than 3' out of his path there too, but this involves some judgment, and if you don't want to offer your opinion, that's fine. However, the initial out call after the runner passes 3b and heads halfway to the 3b dugout should have been made without any question. Have some guts and make the call when it's obvious; we'll all respect you more for it.
I'm curious about an about a minor league ejection in a game between the Durham Bulls and the Nashville Sounds that happened earlier this year. The video I saw this on was titled "Runner Advances During Pitching Change". The Sounds manager was ejected for arguing the runner placement. It was a very unusual situation. I couldn't figure out if there was a base award for an illegal action by the defensive team. The situation was very unusual .
That’s gotta be an out. There’s a clear attempt made near third base and Siri runs halfway to the dugout in an obvious attempt to get out of reach of the tag (I don’t think he was trying to avoid any coaches or other obstructions). I love Siri as a player but that’s a definite out 😂
I humor myself, but I like to think I had something to do with this video getting made.
I've got him at 30 ft, not 3.0 ft... out all day!
That's a text book example of the runner outside of his path to his next base. Should have been ruled out immediately by the 3b umpire who put it on the plate man to make a call. Bad umpiring
He's OUT!!
No trans flag coloring when you mentioned changing orientation is disappointing.
😂 oh my gosh
All the Interwebz…you win them all. I have just seen the face of God…😂
By god thats Lin's music! She's back!
Would these rules be different in the Winter League?
Theres no baseball rule where this isnt an obvious out except for maybe a kids movie.
I assure you…were that the case? Lindsay would have ABSOLUTELY cited it.
I've never seen a requirement that you reach your arm out to begin a tag attempt
I think this is what a lot of people assume "tag attempt" means when the rule is quoted. Seen tons of comments to this play essentially saying, "Where is the tag attempt?" clearly thinking that fielder not bothering to wave his glove at thin air = no tag attempt.
@@PatAndOrRick It's another one of those ambiguous rules, in my opinion. Just like on when a half-swing is a strike, or when the batter-runner loses their overrun protection at first base for making an attempt to advance to second base.
@vincentwendt720 except in this instance, there is in fact an accompanying MLB Umpire's Manual clarification that a tag attempt means "the fielder is moving to tag the runner, no physical tag attempt is required to call a runner out for leaving the basepath."
Given the camera angle, it is difficult for me to see whether the runner ever touched third base with his hand or foot. If he didn't, then he'd be out for running the bases out of order.
@@MrHoff27 IF he missed 3rd AND the defense properly appealed the missed base he would called out on appeal.
Who’s call is it U3 or HP? Definitely went more than 3 feet.
That's gonna be U3 at third base. Plate ump would have the call when Siri avoided the catcher (which IMHO was CORRECTLY ruled "safe"...if only because Siri was in that position because he ran so far away from the third baseman). So in short, should have been out of the base path at third base but, if it wasn't, then the plate's call of safe for the play with the catcher was proper since the base path at that time started so "outside" the line.
What about this? When the tag attempt was initially started, was he heading home, or was he heading back to third? If the latter, at what point does he start heading home, is that point considered a "change in orientation towards the bag", and when does THAT tag attempt start?
You're making the mistake of thinking a "change in orientation" of the runner necessitates a new tag attempt for a runner's base path to be established. The rule does not state the the path is established when a tag attempt "starts" simply when a tag attempt "occurs" which can be an ongoing thing. In other words, the tag attempt that "occurs" while the runner is oriented to 3rd still "occurs" after the runner switches direction towards home.
@@PatAndOrRick But Lindsay says "the base path resets when the runner changes their base orientation...". It's not clear to me what the definition of "base orientation" is. If "changing which base they are attempting to run toward" counts as "changin their base orientation" that it seems like that might be an argument in favor of a correct safe call.
1) Runner is attempting to retreat to 3B after overslide
2) Fielder initiates tag attempt, establishing base path between runner and 3B
3) runner retreats from 3B along establsihed base path
4) Runner decides to attempt to take home instead [here's the part that I don't know for sure], constituting a change in base orientation, base path is reestablished due to ongoing tag attempt between runner's new position and home
5) runner proceeds to home along NEW base path.
Now, watching the replay it's arguable whether he was ever trying to actually make it back to third or not, but full speed I could definitely see the umpire assuming his default destination would be to regain the base he just slid past, so if that's what the ump was thinking then that makes sense, assuming my definition of "base orientation" holds here.
@@swankgd the base path (regardless of which base he is going to) is a direct line from the runner's position at the point it is established to the base he is going to. From the point the runner decides he is going home here, with the fielder attempting to tag him, he cannot deviate more than 3ft from a direct line from his position at that specific point to the plate. Instead, he runs about 15ft into foul territory. It's as simple as that.
The play by 3B is tough. When the catcher has the ball at home, though, that seems like a lot more than 3'
What about the 2nd half of the play, at home?
3 meters in DR
Citation? Pretty sure the distance from the rubber to the plate and the baselines are all on the English system of measurements…you know, as the rules require.
Yup, out all day.
Tag, you're it
Even in a different league Siri sucks!
Any good ejections in the Dominican Winter League?
Far better than what passes for ejections in MLB…
SAFE! Thats definitely less than 3 feet in my eyes.🤷♂️
Have your eyes checked!
Can I pet your vision assistance dog, please?
He's out. Period.
This isnt even remotely close. Terrible on field call. WAY out of the path.
Why do you cover regular season and this but not playoffs?
You do realize she provides analysis of 2,430 regular season MLB games yes? And typically within 2 days of their completion? Be a bud. Give her a break, please.
out
I've been waiting for you to do a video on this! Why didn't you give your own opinion though? 😂
Because when I do give my opinion (that the no-call at third base was incorrect), I get lit up for being so opinionated 😆
@@CloseCallSportsdamned if you do, damned if you dont lol
@@CloseCallSports This isn't even a matter of opinion. 20' > 3'
@@CloseCallSports this one wasnt an opinion though. Clear as day he's out.
That is 6-8 feet!