This is the family I grew up in. I am the scapegoat. I moved 2,500 miles away from them in the early 70's after putting myself thru a vocational school. I became successful. They said, you will never make it! That did not stop them from badgering me for money they had not earned. Recently I gave myself the best 71st birthday present. I went "no contact" with the whole damned family+ so-called friends.
I had a similar story as a scape goat. I just recently went no contact with a narcistic sister and working on the same with the eldest narcotic brother.
I'm a very self aware borderline, I need help and I'm stuck and stagnant in this place I'm to unregulated to work all the time :( I realized I'll never change in this spot and I can't change like this.
@@AnimosityIncarnate have read yourself up on supplements to heal it? You can heal narsisistic abuse also with different supplements, and most people have sleep apnea too. Read about how you heal that too. Alot of videoes on youtube! I also share alot on my youtube but mostly norwegian videoes. Maybe I should start sharing english videoes more too……
@@AnimosityIncarnate I also take probiotics daily cause it gives the stummach happy bacteria! I slso exercise almost daily - you should at least walk 10.000 steps daily. Do you do meditation/yoga? That will help you to be ‘in the now’
@@AnimosityIncarnate Another well known & well educated "narcissisitc abuse" professional on you tube indicated that people deeply steeped in narcissistic abuse can exhibit as borderlines. Once out of the situation + some extensive work of recovery, the behaviors can go away, or show up much much less frequent when "triggered". I'm not trying to diagnose or re-diagnose, I just found it worthwhile information for consideration. I did appreciate listening to Sam's post comparing the narcissist to the borderline, with strong knowledge of deep codependency -- it was extremely helpful for me to get clear on the differences. I'm simply amazed how much life can change for the better with education around these topics, and becoming very self aware, as you state. One can't really even begin to change without it.
This is my family! It is horrifying. I am so happy i grew up and got away to another continent. My mother shouldn't have had children. She enjoyed pitting us against each other, and gossiping with my sisters like a 15 year old. I was the scapegoat and they all bullied me. She also gossipped about my dad constantly and tried to make me hate him. She failed. My siblings and i still hate and distrust each other. Now, my mother complains about why we are not united or close to each other! After creating this very dynamic.
Prof. Vaknin saved my sanity by explaining what I was up against. A malignant narcissist. But, I found the professor too late to save my family. The narc destroyed all of us. My beloved son committed suicide. My beautiful, perfectionist daughter completely unraveled. The worst feeling in the world is feeling so helpless and hopeless as you watch your children fall apart or die, and there's nothing you can do to save them. Narcs are the demons unleashed from the bowels of hell.
@@barbpaq When the mask comes off you are usually taken completely off guard. Then, just to destroy everyone is not enough for the narc. They have to shatter everyone and burn the shards left and stomp the ashes into the ground.
I was bullied and the scapegoat. Pushed me out and treated me as an outsider. I moved away from them as soon as I saw this. It does not stop them from doing this at a distance. I prey they would stop. To get to me they used my ex partner and my daughter to get them on their side to also bully me. I am now going zero contact and looking to move to another country. I presently live 300 miles away. I am now realising that this was a result of an mentally sick family. I am so at peace now after being validated by this video and also the comments that reflect my own life...
My family (mom&siblings) scored ALL 13. I abandoned the whole family for good earlier this year: mom, siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparents, nieces, nephews. I finally left them for good after many attempts since 2020. This helps me feel better about my choice to abandon them 100%.
YES! Good for you! Mine are all 13 also. Walked away from all of them 15 to 20 years ago and never felt more joy, peace, calm, relaxed serenity, since the day I never looked back. A life of freedom and happiness to us all!😒❤️🤍💙
They are probably like my family of united haters, I was abandoned by them all way before I finally self-disowned myself for them. Whew, the best thing I’ve ever done for myself. I finally accepted that they lied to me as a child, and not only did God always love me but I finally knew I WAS deserving of Gods love. God and I are like this 🤞🏽since. They all lied 🤥 and that is all on them. I couldn’t be happier living life!😃
Good for you, tough but necessary, so did I, I was the adopted , no good child, apparently and not 'blood' so not really part of the family, I was considered the 'cousin' hanging around, So my sense of belonging was never developed, pretty much a loner because of this childhood trauma,
My family has all the 13 signs and I don't live with them anymore. I was the scapegoat when I lived with them and I still struggle with a lot of issues. Thank you for sharing this content with us.
My spouse's family exhibited all 13 signs so I can somewhat relate. I am sorry that you have been so traumatized. You don't live with them anymore, but have you gone no contact? How long have you been away from the family? How is your healing process going so far? Remember you are worthy of love and joy in your life. Leave the chaos and destruction in the past.
Want to reassure you aren’t alone. Also struggling with many issues today- it’s a perpetual hamster wheel. I just want to stop that wheel from turning so bad 😞 I hope you are staying safe away from the toxicity
Scapegoat Invisible child Very interesting points this man makes So incredibly gut wrenching to recognize parts of my family I did not feel comfortable in my own skin I endured and felt unhappy and ashamed in my family
8 signs at least. No contact: the survival tactic I tried to use at 14, that should have been applied decades before I was finally able to finalize the break in my 50s.
Wow. My family scored 13/13. I knew they were dysfunctional and now I have reconfirmed it. I went no contact 2 years ago and my life has been so much better.
Why no contact ? Ur family, ur ppl, ur blood, ur root, ur own ppl.. due to related wth them u r here in d world till now.. yes, they might b wrong n bad fr u, but ur ppl. Why ppl do wrong wth kids Why they bring them by pregnancy when they don't need kids normal life their everything ok life n when they r not lover bf gf husband wife truely , just sick user shits then why kids also ?? Why wrong after wrong worst crime after worst crime ? After severe wrong as lover, as spouse which was not love, nit marrg just Deceiving, using, acting, ruining planwse killing alive..then why kids also anothr unforgivable crime wth horrible ways bringing them through God Deceiving God using lover/spouse n to use kids ? Why ?
I identify with every sign. I've been no contact since last year. I've told them they are abusive. My sister is diagnosed BPD. Both my parents are narcissistic (even psychopathic). They are all mad. I've always said there was things that weren't right but didn't know then, what I know now. Plus, they've got worse as they've got older so their behaviours are more prominent. I was the scapegoat, plus, born 7.5 years after my brother and 10 years after my sister so I think I was able to see it more clearly as the roles were already established. I probably took over the role of scapegoat from my brother. My sister is golden child (and named after my mother!). My sisters back living with my parents due to her marriage failing. Its the worst place she could be as they enable her nonsrnce even more. It was like walking into an asylum in the end. Going no contact has not been easy. I miss my parents, because they're my parents, but they're not loving, caring or even supportive. I shouldn't miss them, but it takes time to break 48 years of trauma bonding. Moreover , this is just a repeat of the past generation, with my parents and grandparents. Exactly the same but they can't see it. I'm hoping I'll be the first to break in a healthy way ❤
what strikes me about narcissists is they are happy being narcissists, they don't want things any other way, narcissists don't want to have enjoyable-pleasant-peaceful-warm family gatherings, they don't want human connection, they often want alcohol and they want only their needs met and the inconvenience of any other person to disappear... really I think children of narcissists should be able to sue them for neglect and abuse, growing up in a sick family has no real justice in the end
The success of a group depends on - 1. Taking the positive energy of the most significant member. (Usually the only true and beautiful soul) 2. Dumping their negative energy on to the most vulnerable (loving) member, whilst simultaneously stealing their positive energy. This all occurs in the quantum (unseen) world; discernible only by observing the RESULT of such behaviour. “Humanity” does not come into the equation. TAKE A GOOD LOOK if you find that negative things “always happen” to one person. and listen to the comments of the predator … “They are always getting it wrong … poor thing… they are always suffering ..”. etc. If the victim suddenly wakes up to what is going on … and clears out … the group will start mal-functioning. 🤣 Mark my words.
@@Rain9Quinn thank you for your reply and supportive words. Other people just don't get it. Or think you're evil because "family should come fist" etc. I'm trying to heal and with time I will. And I do hope at some point there will be some semblance of a relationship. It's just very difficult to perceive them as ever being accepting of my boundaries. And not trying to cross them, particularly as my father is very rageful and easily slighted. How did you do it?
Everyone who knew me-my psychiatrists and therapists throughout the years included-all said it wasn’t me, it was my family. I just could never get that an entire family could be like that, especially mine. They seem wonderful from the outside. The way everyone treated them proved I’d never be believed, and the times peripheral people became aware of anything, they all sided with the group. I must be the wrong one. Right? Well, you listed out clearly why I’m not, and for that I thank you. I went no contact many years ago and it seems that’s when the real healing began. I couldn’t do it anywhere near them. It was very difficult for me for many complex reasons, and I now have a wonderful, very skilled trauma therapist who works with me along with my psychiatrist. Honestly, I’d no idea *so* much of the trauma I was experiencing came from growing up as the scapegoat.
My mother thought it was cute when I came home with books on medicine and psychology at 8 years old from the public library ....I knew something was up and needed to get the jump on them before my scapegoat status got upgraded to something else.
I have scored 13 out of 13 and this absolutely validates my reason to extricate myself from this extremely toxic family. I see them for who they are but I am vilified as the bad person. Thank you so much. I escaped with my life but not altogether unscathed
My bonkers basement dwellers are crazy making. I am the youngest of 4 and have been adultified, punished and discredited since I can remember. Black sheep, scapegoat, trouble, evil - thats me. Nevertheless I refuse to remain in the dark and am going no contact as soon as my narc father passes. I am kind, compassionate and have oodles of common sense. I have achieved more than my 3 siblings put together. I am spending the rest of my days with people who love me - my grown up sons, my partner and loyal friends. ON INTO THE LIGHT I GO 🎉
13 is also lucky in wicca. This is all generationally ongoing in my family of origin. And currently being replicated in my sibling's past and current relationships. And being inherited and displayed in the present in my nieces' and nephews' relationships and their children. Luckily I was scapegoated and black sheeped early in life, it developed my emotional resilience and capacity for independence of thought.
I recently went no contact after a Christmas holiday fiasco. The family doesn't approve of my new wife. Apparently she isn't good enough for a bunch of average to below average people. I recently took several tests, most notably, the NNPI-2 test, and was diagnosed as having Borderline Personality Disorder and Major Depression. I haven't talked to these people in six months, and I certainly feel better off for it. The insulting things that were said to us cannot be simply taken back and forgiven and life just goes on. Although, that's exactly what they want to have happen.
One of the very sad parts of having a mentally-ill family is that they have to ruin events. There can't be a nice family dinner with relatives visiting from out of state, there can't be a memorable holiday, there is always something wrong, they must CREATE conflict. It's a disease of misery. I keep wishing there was a time that I recall my family having a nice BBQ or something where things were just warm and friendly and fun and it doesn't exist. The only saving grace, a sliver of humanity is when I was young I had a friend of my family who was a healthy-fun-nice person, other than her the rest of them were really nuts. They're stupid people, they are ultimately the creators of chaos and ill-will. So, yeah, if you can find other people to spend time with outside of the relatives well that is preferable.
U should not hav marry her..she also shouldn't hav marry u. Anything else like frndship, timepass was ok fr both excpt love, marrg, affairs. Being matched being blessing overall normal basic main requirements based fr love/marrg r must fr all. No anytype wrong to any..no using or no curse or no pain suffrngs fr any or no abnormalty fr any ever neither fr self.
Thank you for this video. I watched it at 3am, here in Australia, when I couldn’t sleep, worried about family dynamics. I am 70 and still trying to understand what went wrong in my family as a child and the families I created with narcissists. I couldn’t figure it out until now. In one video you explained everything. So deeply grateful. 💙
Hi Savinya. I am 57. When I was 55 I researched my parents' behaviours and was blown away to learn they were both narcissistic. My recent circumstances left me reeling in horror- my in-laws are also narcissists! Last 2 years have been hellish but my self-awakening, education and healing is priceless. This video helped me so much in justifying no contact. Both families scored above 6. You are never too old to learn, heal or make changes in your life. Good luck.
You are 100% right about the "Wrongful intimacies" being the universal. I was ready for it to apply as soon as you warned there were "no exceptions" and it did.
Jaw-droppingly accurate, all but one boxes were ticked. Particularly the 'cult' of nostalgia was always baffling to me. If ever again anyone questions my decision to go no contact, I will refer them to this video..
my father that I haven't seen in twenty years is sending me texts of photos of his personal belongings asking me if I want them, I told him I don't want them and I have no storage, he didn't reply to my response text, he kept sending me more photos of his stuff that HE is nostalgic about like stuff from his childhood, it bothered me, it bothered me that he didn't listen to what I had to say about it, it bothered me that he wanted me to interact with him again only ON HIS terms where I have to enter into his mental space and agree with him about his personal treasures that he has kept. I've moved a lot and I don't even keep my own things half the time. There have even been times growing up when my father threw MY things away without asking me about it, he felt it was his right to make any decision he wanted to.... anyhow a week went by and he started sending me photos again of his nostalgic items that have no real value, I bluntly told him this time to throw them into the garbage if he doesn't want the stuff and to refer to my prior text where I said I didn't collect stuff and I have no storage space... and he didn't say something like "I understand you have no space and don't need these things"... he just goes silent... this is like how he always was many years ago, He was a one-sided interaction and sometimes he would do it as if he decided he were playing a game or he thought he was being funny, it seems like a minor thing, though this is part of his interaction patterns that I don't like, he also sent me a text a few weeks earlier where he reminisced about playing some card game with me as a kid and how it made him "happy" while I recall my childhood as sad, deprived, and lonely.... and because they are predictable I know that when I told him to throw his stuff in the garbage if he doesn't want it made him go into an 1) indignant, 2) resentful, 3) bitter 4) avoidant mode... all because I don't want his "gifts" ... when his mother died he got a Uhaul and dumped all his mother's collectible clutter at the Goodwill, ... if my relationship with my father wasn't so bad perhaps I would look at the stuff and respond by saying something related to the era it was from as old things are interesting in that sense, but my father has a strange psychological make-up and opening the door to any sort of interactions with him seems like a bad way to go.... AND I am typing this all out on RUclips
Thank you for this Sam! One of your best, validating videos for me. I knew my score would be 13 before you even started. All of these traits, fully describe my family. And nobody in my family will take responsibility for their toxicity because they do not recocnize it; they will not do the personal development work and when one sibling did, they twisted and distorted the PD information to suit their victim mentality and still sick narrative. Any contact with family usually results in these behaviors being played out yet again. To them, it is normal and I am weird and wrong.😂 I appreciate your knowledge, insight and wisdom. It has been very helpful and liberating for me, and others, I am sure!😊❤
Thank u for the video. I LOVE IT when u talk more about ill families. Its very validating.. they try to make u feel the crazy one. No one believes me to this day when I tell them who my familiy really is.
I was wondering for a video such as this from Sam. 13/13. Years ago I came to the same conclusion as Sam gives. No contact. Ever. They will take and take, suck you dry and before you know it, you're older, wonder where all your attention and time has gone. I'd be damned before I let that sh* happen to me. So much to live for, and dancing with mentally ill people/relatives is certainly not one of them. Big Pass. I've been pouring into my own desires, making sure they are my own, learning new things, and creating, and so far it's helped to reconfigure my inner landscape for the better. I used to think that I have gotten stronger, therefore I could handle a boundary breaking attempt by my ''family'', and then I remember I was in the same situation many times before and they always found ways to ensnare me by appealing to my humanity but nvm treating me as such. I only wish I had the vocabulary of the abuse I endured earlier on in my teens. Throughout the school system, many teachers tried to reach out to me, they could see I was perturbed by something. I felt trapped because I did not know how to explain what was going on at home. Likely, had I said anything they would have kicked me out of the house as they often threatened me when I ''misbehaved'. So I was really trapped by my material conditions of that time. During this time I was contemplating suicide, and the only counter thought to this I had was among the lines of ''Why should I die and they live?'' I'm not the one lying, I'm not the one stealing from my own daughter's hard work, I'm not neglecting my kids; letting them go weeks without food and other basic needs and leaving them to the mercy of neighbours. I thought of them as hypocrites and I could crystal clear see how they wanted me to turn into them. I had no doubt in my mind about it and that disgusted me beyond belief. I was going to to claw my way out no matter what. I hope that more youth in similar situations can find Sam's videos, I wish I have. I will always remain grateful for Dr. Sam in providing us with this valuable education. To be able to have the proper words to describe abuse makes a world of difference. Thank you Sam.
Thank you, professor Vaknin. This is useful. I assigned score to my family of origin (9)and my in laws (10). Some signs overlap, some are different. The degrees of disfunction also differ. I feel validated in my perception. Most damaging IMHO was parentification in both as well as boundaries violation. Sadly, my husband insist he grew up in happy family, his wife ( that’s me) comes from the dysfunctional one - true. I knew it since I was a little girl. Avoided mother at any opportunity- spent time with animals and run across the street to my neighbors. There, I felt safe and loved. I pass on the love I received from my neighbor Michalina, to any child that came to my door. I let my children bring any of their classmates or neighbors’ kids to eat and sleep at my home.
Thank you for explaining the dynamics. Last year my mother pushed me to the limits and l went no contact.. I felt and I feel guilty for doing so, she is 78 years old and has health problems.. I was contemplating reconnecting with her.. I scored all 13. I will take your advice and remain no contact and look for therapy.. Thank you for opening my eyes. I hope, it’s not too late for me.
Professor Sam vaknin is a great source , added to my one of favourites , when it comes to understanding narcissists and psychopaths and psychology in general, he is a must to listen to
I did cut ties with family for 2 yrs until the narcissistic oldest sister is struggling with cancer! They sucked me in again in their dark basement! I do not want my sister to suffer or die . I then realised that i surely have a trauma bond with her and i still need to heal ! It is not easy !
Wow thank you so much for this. My childhood was characterised by all 13 of these and it is only now aged 50 and with the help of a brilliant therapist that I can start to unravel the damage that was done. My dad died a while ago and I’ve recently gone no contact with my mum and brother. The deciding factor for me was when my mother chose to believe my narcissistic ex husband and blamed me. I was emotionally abused by this man for 16 years until I had the courage to recognise the toxicity and escape. I have limited contact with him - we have children together so I can’t go no contact completely. Recently he attended my nephews wedding with my mum and brother so is clearly still close to them despite me not having spoken to them for nearly 2 years. Do you think that growing up in an abusive house makes you more susceptible to pairing up with toxic partners? I can see a pattern in my past that I have now managed to break thank god. Your wisdom and insight has been so invaluable in my journey and this video particularly struck a chord.
Yup my family blood line mental illness,alcoholism,addiction,toxicity,pride,ego, narcissistic tendency's,gas-lighting,negative thinking,anxiety...It has destroyed a great part of my life & siblings!
My in laws family have 10 of these...i went no contact with them. I began to feel very unsafe in that environment...thank god i saw sense! Thanks for doing this video👍
Hello, my family tried to kill me a couple years ago due to this hostility. Strangulation, traumatic brain injury and body trauma such as seizures put me in the hospital; nevertheless, I graduated with my Masters Degree in Clinical Psychology a couple months ago. Thank you for your contribution to mental health as I broke free after the childhood trauma; however, I married into it. But, now, I'm going free and happy! Best to you, Mindy
My parents were not jointly operating in the same direction, so that in retrospect I see a kind of balance between my narcissistic, histrionic mother and my WW2 "shell-shocked" father, who seemed to enjoy her exciting displays and even egg her on. I appreciate the various insights. Because the parents were so different, I was able to see there were options and I carefully observed other role models among friends' families and teachers and even sit coms on television. It's always been a struggle to maintain a positive attitude, but at least I knew what that could look like.
'The parents don't even verbalise their expectations, they just punish you if you don't meet them - overriding expectation is mind reading - Amen... what a great way to live. Still trying to free myself now from FOG - 'fear, obligation and guilt' except I'm not fearful, it's just so covert how it's done and no one can communicate properly so it's so awkward to get away from. Now guilt trips passed to grandkids but not any more.
When the title of this lecture popped up in my feed, I had a heartbeat skip :). Thank you so much for talking about the family system. Each person's behavior and character are formed in a context, and that contextual environment is crucial in forgiving oneself and learning new, healthy skills and boundaries. I hope you do more videos on the family. You are a genius with a great flair for teaching. Much love to you and your "long-suffering wife"! 😅😂🥰
Hello Prof. Vaknin. I’m so grateful daily for your video publications. I am a poster child for narcissistic supply. I would love to have you address specifically the pathology of the supply side. In previous videos this pathology is touched on or woven in to the greater topic. Or perhaps you could direct myself and other ‘victims’, though I don’t consider myself a victim, but rather a naive dance partner, to content you may have already created. Sometimes I feel I have very similar interior landscape to the narcissism you described in yourself. I appreciate you. Please and thank you.
Hi Peggy, watch Prof. Vaknin’s videos on borderline personality BPD to learn more about the pathology of the narcissist supply. The BP is the dance partner to the narcissist.
No contact many years ago, a sibling was diagnosed by Dr. Lucas Van Orden MD with psychopathy at age 21 while he was in substance abuse recovery program. My Mom had all 9 traits of borderline personality disorder, and I’m sure I have Avoidant Personality Disorder. Add to the chaos, most of my abusers are Cambellites( members of the Church of Christ cult). It’s been a wild ride. Thanks to Professor Sam!
BINGO!!!!! 13 OF 13! Worst part is, almost all so called upper class families, I have been acquainted with ,have all 13 of these characteristics. The worst thing is sibling rivalry are hall marks of these families, which results in siblings entering into horrible relationships outside of the family because they are so unused to compassion and understanding and always stand to be manipulated by strangers who bond over mutual hatred for a sister or brother and family members. It is hell growing up knowing your own family were your worst enemies, and most people can never face this situation without joining in the same destructive behavior. I have stayed only somewhat sane by being determined not to be like the rest of my family. It is the realization of how far family members will go to destroy you that punches me in my gut. I am so thankful that when I was younger, I never knew the magnitude of the evil around me, if I had known, I would have died of a broken heart. Now I see all these challenges and past hurts as fodder for my writing, crazy people make fantastic fictional characters!
It's funny, because if you had asked me ten years ago, I'd totally have said none of this applied to my family, the reason being I was so brainwashed that I lived in a state of dissociation from a very young age. You say one sign are children who want to runaway; I'll add also children who either don't want to leave or feel they can't. I did the latter. I left home at 34 because I was the only earner _and_ caregiver in a household of three adults, and I did it feeling that I had to compensate them (which I did) for being such a bad child. Now I can see clearly how my family ticks all the boxes, and that explains a lot.
This is probably one of your most important videos - giving people the ability to judge whether or not they should stick it out with their family - and whether their family is going to take them down or not. Thank you.
Ah yes Sam , I did learn from you all about Narcissists. I hear other people talk about it but people who have not listened to you can get it wrong. I always have a smile ☺ Congrats on your seriously good work over the years and a recognition of that by having a day .
My score is 12/13 the only one I wasn't sure about was the focus on the past/future. My family never really discussed anything to indicate this fully. I am the rebel/scapegoat/ black sheep and went no contact 12 years ago to protect my sanity. As it stands, I only have a son and daughter with whom I have a good relationship. Everyone else, including dad, his partner, his sister, my sister and my eldest son behave as if I had never existed. Mother abandoned me at 5 years old. I think you would find a lot of issues in my family. After half a century I walked away to heal myself..it was painful and takes time and effort. Thank you Sam for this validation.
This is my family! All 13...I am no contact for the most part, but civil if we unavoidably bump into one another in public. I feel sorry for my daughter having no extended family, but I think it's the better option for her.
My family has 10 of these. Everything in our household revolved around my mom's trauma from WWII. It has taken me YEARS of therapy to escape that prison.
Great video, spot on about my family (13 out of 13). As a kid I knew something was wrong and moved away from them (classic sign) when I could. They never changed, so yes, after years of trying to connect, I gave up and went no contact.
Birth to 8 years old I was the Golden Child. 8 to somewhere early 20’s The Lost Child. 30 onward I was the Scapegoat. 62 years old now and living a peaceful fulfilling life. Thank you for your work.
I'm listening to this all, very intently,and so far its 100% 🤣. I just heard you talk about how the roles given in a dysfunctional family are mismatched and I'm just now coming to the deep realization of how much that has impacted my life- for me, being treated as "the not so smart" one, and without skills- parentified, worker bee, invisible, fixer, scapegoat- depending on the hour or day. At 57, just now seeing myself clearly and being able to acknowledge self. Those false beliefs are so utterly insane based on the facts and reality! Life changing, eye-opening. Though it clearly held me back from reaching my full potential, I'm extremely fortunate. The severe co-dependency and skills served me well in my business, with clients, my life, having great capacity to take care of my solo self now. Though my family members are all doing fine financially, I now can clearly see what I was blinded to before. My life is SO significantly better than theirs' on pretty much every level.
#6 - Huge- so true! I bet this is one reason my mother moved us to a different apartment, and different school each year through grade 8; isolation by different means and different forms, beyond this. Oh, and changed my last name, I think it was 5 times. Nothing crazy about that!
You just have to look at the homeless epidemic around America and wonder no more why this is the case. Many traumatised children end up down these paths.
I love what Raymond Moody said, "The only people who are normal are those you don't know very well." Let your mind alone, as James Thurber said. Life's hard enough without worrying if your family is mentally ill or not.
I'm not sure how to measure my family of origin. Like all families, it's complicated, both good and bad. Mostly, it was good. Wonderful mom. There was so much potential for our family. My mom and dad instilled good values for sure. However, things were far from perfect. Our dad started an affair with another teacher where he taught school. This started when I was 12, my brother was 6. It lasted for 6 years. He was rarely home for those 6 years. My mom had divorce papers served to him at the school in '78. Good for her❤. My mom, brother and myself had a huge sense of relief, because now life was truthful. All of this had to be toxic because I started my young adult years feeling empty inside. When it came down to it, yes I could "find" my true self, my core. However, on the surface (and a bit below), I just blew-unguided by my values-in the wind . I could be skittish too. My dad married the affair 🤭 woman. They had 2 kids , ouch!! (grown up now). My brother and I see my dad, his wife and our half siblings mostly on holidays and have done so for years. You know, everything bothered me so much more than my brother. He would tell me to get over it already. He'd say much worse happens to families and we should be grateful for what we have and what went right. I agree with him, however I can't deny how it changed me, our family, and mostly, mostly our sweet, fun mom.
I have the same story. Except the chaos in my childhood made me psychotic/CPTSD and by the time I was 15 I was insane. It was embarassing for me and then by the time I was 18 I was using drugs. I still care for my family but im so detached from them at this point I don't really feel apart of it. Maybe that's exactly what I need.
Another 13/13. All siblings and parents are passed on. The last two to survive I caregive (father and sister) . It's been a few years since they passed and I went no contact to all the rest of my relatives except for my daughter. I started to plan my escape around the age of 10. Resorted to several run away attempts and was put in a mental facility at 15 diagnosed as BPD. Did escape thru marriage at 19. Then no contact for long stretches except to short visit. Went back 13 years ago to help my aging dad and schizophrenic sister. I am alone now almost a year and healing is slow. Basically still a basket case but semi functional. Surrounded by lunatics in a trailer park but can come and go as I please. A good step up from the slavery of my family.
This resonated so much, every word was like a punch. 😅 Very powerful Sam!!!!!!! Thank you so much for this. Long awaited validation. I'm from a mentally ill family of 10 with more than 10 of the list so has been very hard to push back against them. Pretty sure mum is schizoid narcissist mum and dad is a paranoid narcissist. So much mental illness, trauma and pain. The 8 kids have come out in weird and wonderful variations of the parents traits. Haha basement crawlers. 😂
Scored 10+. Family Values-strangers welcome! If u look good-u must be good. Protect thy predator- bully ungroomable kids, keep incest, murder and sue-a-sides secret NO CONTACT 3+ yrs 🙏💜😌
It's also a very lucky number in Hinduism.... The number of Shiva. Also it takes 13 members to start a council..... The Historical figure Jesus had twelve apostles because under Deuteronomic Law 13 men can make a council... Like the original thirteen colonies did
Excellent video!! Unfortunately what is a bigger problem is that children of two different mentally ill families often find their spouses who are from another mentally ill family. A struggle -unbelievable HARD struggle for this marriage to survive. Both for lack of coping mechanisms but also the major lack of support from family members to make the new “family” successful. In fact then the family of origin on both sides get added to the mix.
The future is that we should classify it Brain Health Just as for example:- We have Heart Health, Liver Health, Kidney Health, Lung Health!!! You overwhelm an organ You have a problem Simple Don't overwhelm or let yourself be overwhelmed Brain Health as in all illness affecting the Brain happens when we have too much too cope with and it's our Brains way of saying NO Take a break Your bucket has been filled and is overflowing. This is a stress response which is totally NORMAL
Prof Sam Vaknin - My ‘Family?’ scored a 13! Thank you so much for this video. You have answered the remaining questions, I have spent my entire 57 years of life, I had left to research. You have given one little girl the clarity and empowerment through her 57 year older self and I cannot find the accurate words to tell you how vastly, for the better, you just changed my life! Thank you for being the voice of authority, with the reputation and expertise in affirming that those in families who score more than a 10, mine scored 13, must go no contact. You specified it was the right thing for my own sanity and health, to go no contact with mother, father, brother, daughter, etc… for my own survival. I did that 15 to 20 years ago. About 2 years ago the brother reached out to me as if nothing had ever happened, as if he didn’t do anything to me ever. I let him know I wouldn’t ever have any interested in being any part of the ‘family’. Thank you!!!!! 🤗🤗🤗🤫💚
Tracking a suicidal trait in our family, made me realise this is not just me syndrome. When one member of a family is difficult, track back through parents, their brothers / sisters, even their cousins and u usually find a pattern...... Caroline
The part about grades. My parent would praise my brother for only getting two f,s and four d,s. I was chastised for getting a c. After fifty plus years of abuse they refuse any accountability. I did something worse than let them abuse me. I let them abuse my children.
![Megan Thee Stallion - Neva Play (feat. RM) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TpYTyAaTRts/mqdefault.jpg)
This is the family I grew up in. I am the scapegoat. I moved 2,500 miles away from them in the early 70's after putting myself thru a vocational school. I became successful. They said, you will never make it! That did not stop them from badgering me for money they had not earned. Recently I gave myself the best 71st birthday present. I went "no contact" with the whole damned family+ so-called friends.
Lol I would have changed my contact. Why would people talk so badly about us then want help. I ain’t going to help anyone in my karmic family😅
I have almost the same story but cut off the contact when I was 30 and I am 70 now.
The best revenge is success! ✌🏼
I had a similar story as a scape goat. I just recently went no contact with a narcistic sister and working on the same with the eldest narcotic brother.
You sound like me 😊, I moved to a whole new continent.
Just being around my family for a couple of hours literally makes me feel like I'm being pulled down in quicksand.
I need to cut contact more with mine
I'm a very self aware borderline, I need help and I'm stuck and stagnant in this place I'm to unregulated to work all the time :( I realized I'll never change in this spot and I can't change like this.
@@AnimosityIncarnate have read yourself up on supplements to heal it? You can heal narsisistic abuse also with different supplements, and most people have sleep apnea too. Read about how you heal that too. Alot of videoes on youtube! I also share alot on my youtube but mostly norwegian videoes. Maybe I should start sharing english videoes more too……
@@AnimosityIncarnate I also take probiotics daily cause it gives the stummach happy bacteria! I slso exercise almost daily - you should at least walk 10.000 steps daily. Do you do meditation/yoga? That will help you to be ‘in the now’
@@AnimosityIncarnate Another well known & well educated "narcissisitc abuse" professional on you tube indicated that people deeply steeped in narcissistic abuse can exhibit as borderlines. Once out of the situation + some extensive work of recovery, the behaviors can go away, or show up much much less frequent when "triggered". I'm not trying to diagnose or re-diagnose, I just found it worthwhile information for consideration. I did appreciate listening to Sam's post comparing the narcissist to the borderline, with strong knowledge of deep codependency -- it was extremely helpful for me to get clear on the differences. I'm simply amazed how much life can change for the better with education around these topics, and becoming very self aware, as you state. One can't really even begin to change without it.
I "Door slammed " my family of origin. My heart goes out to all the survivors of narcissist abuse.
This is my family! It is horrifying. I am so happy i grew up and got away to another continent. My mother shouldn't have had children. She enjoyed pitting us against each other, and gossiping with my sisters like a 15 year old. I was the scapegoat and they all bullied me. She also gossipped about my dad constantly and tried to make me hate him. She failed. My siblings and i still hate and distrust each other. Now, my mother complains about why we are not united or close to each other! After creating this very dynamic.
My mother did the same thing
Same here!
same exact thing here. my family scored 13.
Exactly the same here.
Same here too
Prof. Vaknin saved my sanity by explaining what I was up against. A malignant narcissist. But, I found the professor too late to save my family. The narc destroyed all of us. My beloved son committed suicide. My beautiful, perfectionist daughter completely unraveled. The worst feeling in the world is feeling so helpless and hopeless as you watch your children fall apart or die, and there's nothing you can do to save them. Narcs are the demons unleashed from the bowels of hell.
@@barbpaq When the mask comes off you are usually taken completely off guard. Then, just to destroy everyone is not enough for the narc. They have to shatter everyone and burn the shards left and stomp the ashes into the ground.
Usually someone calling someone a narcissist is the narcissistic person
@@sweetdudeicecream Then you have no idea what one is.
My aunt fed rat poison to her narc x husband and when he started frothing from tge mouth she locked the doors and move out.
@@marvinpercival4717 Which prison is she in?
Free from "family" is when I learned how to be happy
I was bullied and the scapegoat. Pushed me out and treated me as an outsider. I moved away from them as soon as I saw this. It does not stop them from doing this at a distance. I prey they would stop. To get to me they used my ex partner and my daughter to get them on their side to also bully me. I am now going zero contact and looking to move to another country. I presently live 300 miles away. I am now realising that this was a result of an mentally sick family. I am so at peace now after being validated by this video and also the comments that reflect my own life...
My family (mom&siblings) scored ALL 13. I abandoned the whole family for good earlier this year: mom, siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparents, nieces, nephews. I finally left them for good after many attempts since 2020. This helps me feel better about my choice to abandon them 100%.
Same . Coming up to 4 years . I feel very greatful but only in the last 2 years
YES! Good for you! Mine are all 13 also. Walked away from all of them 15 to 20 years ago and never felt more joy, peace, calm, relaxed serenity, since the day I never looked back. A life of freedom and happiness to us all!😒❤️🤍💙
How do you create a support network when you have disconnected completely from relatives?
They are probably like my family of united haters, I was abandoned by them all way before I finally self-disowned myself for them. Whew, the best thing I’ve ever done for myself. I finally accepted that they lied to me as a child, and not only did God always love me but I finally knew I WAS deserving of Gods love. God and I are like this 🤞🏽since. They all lied 🤥 and that is all on them. I couldn’t be happier living life!😃
Good for you, tough but necessary, so did I,
I was the adopted , no good child, apparently and not 'blood' so not really part of the family, I was considered the 'cousin' hanging around,
So my sense of belonging was never developed, pretty much a loner because of this childhood trauma,
My family has all the 13 signs and I don't live with them anymore. I was the scapegoat when I lived with them and I still struggle with a lot of issues. Thank you for sharing this content with us.
My spouse's family exhibited all 13 signs so I can somewhat relate. I am sorry that you have been so traumatized. You don't live with them anymore, but have you gone no contact? How long have you been away from the family? How is your healing process going so far? Remember you are worthy of love and joy in your life. Leave the chaos and destruction in the past.
Want to reassure you aren’t alone. Also struggling with many issues today- it’s a perpetual hamster wheel. I just want to stop that wheel from turning so bad 😞 I hope you are staying safe away from the toxicity
I too was the scape goat
Scapegoat
Invisible child
Very interesting points this man makes
So incredibly gut wrenching to recognize parts of my family
I did not feel comfortable in my own skin
I endured and felt unhappy and ashamed in my family
8 signs at least. No contact: the survival tactic I tried to use at 14, that should have been applied decades before I was finally able to finalize the break in my 50s.
Wow. My family scored 13/13. I knew they were dysfunctional and now I have reconfirmed it. I went no contact 2 years ago and my life has been so much better.
I had all 13, June 29 will be 2 years for me no contact, im happier than I ever been
Why no contact ? Ur family, ur ppl, ur blood, ur root, ur own ppl.. due to related wth them u r here in d world till now.. yes, they might b wrong n bad fr u, but ur ppl. Why ppl do wrong wth kids Why they bring them by pregnancy when they don't need kids normal life their everything ok life n when they r not lover bf gf husband wife truely , just sick user shits then why kids also ?? Why wrong after wrong worst crime after worst crime ? After severe wrong as lover, as spouse which was not love, nit marrg just Deceiving, using, acting, ruining planwse killing alive..then why kids also anothr unforgivable crime wth horrible ways bringing them through God Deceiving God using lover/spouse n to use kids ? Why ?
I identify with every sign. I've been no contact since last year. I've told them they are abusive.
My sister is diagnosed BPD. Both my parents are narcissistic (even psychopathic). They are all mad.
I've always said there was things that weren't right but didn't know then, what I know now. Plus, they've got worse as they've got older so their behaviours are more prominent.
I was the scapegoat, plus, born 7.5 years after my brother and 10 years after my sister so I think I was able to see it more clearly as the roles were already established. I probably took over the role of scapegoat from my brother. My sister is golden child (and named after my mother!).
My sisters back living with my parents due to her marriage failing. Its the worst place she could be as they enable her nonsrnce even more. It was like walking into an asylum in the end.
Going no contact has not been easy. I miss my parents, because they're my parents, but they're not loving, caring or even supportive. I shouldn't miss them, but it takes time to break 48 years of trauma bonding.
Moreover , this is just a repeat of the past generation, with my parents and grandparents. Exactly the same but they can't see it.
I'm hoping I'll be the first to break in a healthy way ❤
what strikes me about narcissists is they are happy being narcissists, they don't want things any other way, narcissists don't want to have enjoyable-pleasant-peaceful-warm family gatherings, they don't want human connection, they often want alcohol and they want only their needs met and the inconvenience of any other person to disappear... really I think children of narcissists should be able to sue them for neglect and abuse, growing up in a sick family has no real justice in the end
I hear you.
Totally can relate.
The success of a group depends on -
1. Taking the positive energy of the most significant member. (Usually the only true and beautiful soul)
2. Dumping their negative energy on to the most vulnerable (loving) member, whilst simultaneously stealing their positive energy.
This all occurs in the quantum (unseen) world; discernible only by observing the RESULT of such behaviour.
“Humanity” does not come into the equation.
TAKE A GOOD LOOK if you find that negative things “always happen” to one person. and listen to the comments of the predator …
“They are always getting it wrong … poor thing… they are always suffering ..”. etc.
If the victim suddenly wakes up to what is going on … and clears out … the group will start mal-functioning. 🤣
Mark my words.
@@Rain9Quinn thank you for your reply and supportive words. Other people just don't get it. Or think you're evil because "family should come fist" etc.
I'm trying to heal and with time I will. And I do hope at some point there will be some semblance of a relationship. It's just very difficult to perceive them as ever being accepting of my boundaries. And not trying to cross them, particularly as my father is very rageful and easily slighted.
How did you do it?
Everyone who knew me-my psychiatrists and therapists throughout the years included-all said it wasn’t me, it was my family. I just could never get that an entire family could be like that, especially mine. They seem wonderful from the outside. The way everyone treated them proved I’d never be believed, and the times peripheral people became aware of anything, they all sided with the group. I must be the wrong one. Right? Well, you listed out clearly why I’m not, and for that I thank you.
I went no contact many years ago and it seems that’s when the real healing began. I couldn’t do it anywhere near them. It was very difficult for me for many complex reasons, and I now have a wonderful, very skilled trauma therapist who works with me along with my psychiatrist. Honestly, I’d no idea *so* much of the trauma I was experiencing came from growing up as the scapegoat.
My mother thought it was cute when I came home with books on medicine and psychology at 8 years old from the public library ....I knew something was up and needed to get the jump on them before my scapegoat status got upgraded to something else.
I remember buying a book on suicide. I was 12. My mother looked at it and said nothing.
I have scored 13 out of 13 and this absolutely validates my reason to extricate myself from this extremely toxic family. I see them for who they are but I am vilified as the bad person. Thank you so much. I escaped with my life but not altogether unscathed
My bonkers basement dwellers are crazy making. I am the youngest of 4 and have been adultified, punished and discredited since I can remember. Black sheep, scapegoat, trouble, evil - thats me. Nevertheless I refuse to remain in the dark and am going no contact as soon as my narc father passes. I am kind, compassionate and have oodles of common sense. I have achieved more than my 3 siblings put together. I am spending the rest of my days with people who love me - my grown up sons, my partner and loyal friends. ON INTO THE LIGHT I GO 🎉
13 is also lucky in wicca. This is all generationally ongoing in my family of origin. And currently being replicated in my sibling's past and current relationships. And being inherited and displayed in the present in my nieces' and nephews' relationships and their children. Luckily I was scapegoated and black sheeped early in life, it developed my emotional resilience and capacity for independence of thought.
Same 🙏
Sometimes the scapegoat is the only one who escapes 💜
A number is just a man made number . It has no intrinsic value
Sand here. I couldn't have wrote what OP said word for word.
I recently went no contact after a Christmas holiday fiasco. The family doesn't approve of my new wife. Apparently she isn't good enough for a bunch of average to below average people. I recently took several tests, most notably, the NNPI-2 test, and was diagnosed as having Borderline Personality Disorder and Major Depression. I haven't talked to these people in six months, and I certainly feel better off for it. The insulting things that were said to us cannot be simply taken back and forgiven and life just goes on. Although, that's exactly what they want to have happen.
One of the very sad parts of having a mentally-ill family is that they have to ruin events. There can't be a nice family dinner with relatives visiting from out of state, there can't be a memorable holiday, there is always something wrong, they must CREATE conflict. It's a disease of misery. I keep wishing there was a time that I recall my family having a nice BBQ or something where things were just warm and friendly and fun and it doesn't exist. The only saving grace, a sliver of humanity is when I was young I had a friend of my family who was a healthy-fun-nice person, other than her the rest of them were really nuts. They're stupid people, they are ultimately the creators of chaos and ill-will. So, yeah, if you can find other people to spend time with outside of the relatives well that is preferable.
Kudos to you for defending your wife, that is your family now,
U should not hav marry her..she also shouldn't hav marry u. Anything else like frndship, timepass was ok fr both excpt love, marrg, affairs. Being matched being blessing overall normal basic main requirements based fr love/marrg r must fr all. No anytype wrong to any..no using or no curse or no pain suffrngs fr any or no abnormalty fr any ever neither fr self.
Thank you for this video. I watched it at 3am, here in Australia, when I couldn’t sleep, worried about family dynamics. I am 70 and still trying to understand what went wrong in my family as a child and the families I created with narcissists. I couldn’t figure it out until now. In one video you explained everything. So deeply grateful. 💙
Hi Savinya. I am 57. When I was 55 I researched my parents' behaviours and was blown away to learn they were both narcissistic. My recent circumstances left me reeling in horror- my in-laws are also narcissists! Last 2 years have been hellish but my self-awakening, education and healing is priceless. This video helped me so much in justifying no contact. Both families scored above 6. You are never too old to learn, heal or make changes in your life. Good luck.
You are 100% right about the "Wrongful intimacies" being the universal. I was ready for it to apply as soon as you warned there were "no exceptions" and it did.
Jaw-droppingly accurate, all but one boxes were ticked. Particularly the 'cult' of nostalgia was always baffling to me.
If ever again anyone questions my decision to go no contact, I will refer them to this video..
my father that I haven't seen in twenty years is sending me texts of photos of his personal belongings asking me if I want them, I told him I don't want them and I have no storage, he didn't reply to my response text, he kept sending me more photos of his stuff that HE is nostalgic about like stuff from his childhood, it bothered me, it bothered me that he didn't listen to what I had to say about it, it bothered me that he wanted me to interact with him again only ON HIS terms where I have to enter into his mental space and agree with him about his personal treasures that he has kept. I've moved a lot and I don't even keep my own things half the time. There have even been times growing up when my father threw MY things away without asking me about it, he felt it was his right to make any decision he wanted to.... anyhow a week went by and he started sending me photos again of his nostalgic items that have no real value, I bluntly told him this time to throw them into the garbage if he doesn't want the stuff and to refer to my prior text where I said I didn't collect stuff and I have no storage space... and he didn't say something like "I understand you have no space and don't need these things"... he just goes silent... this is like how he always was many years ago, He was a one-sided interaction and sometimes he would do it as if he decided he were playing a game or he thought he was being funny, it seems like a minor thing, though this is part of his interaction patterns that I don't like, he also sent me a text a few weeks earlier where he reminisced about playing some card game with me as a kid and how it made him "happy" while I recall my childhood as sad, deprived, and lonely.... and because they are predictable I know that when I told him to throw his stuff in the garbage if he doesn't want it made him go into an 1) indignant, 2) resentful, 3) bitter 4) avoidant mode... all because I don't want his "gifts" ... when his mother died he got a Uhaul and dumped all his mother's collectible clutter at the Goodwill, ... if my relationship with my father wasn't so bad perhaps I would look at the stuff and respond by saying something related to the era it was from as old things are interesting in that sense, but my father has a strange psychological make-up and opening the door to any sort of interactions with him seems like a bad way to go.... AND I am typing this all out on RUclips
Thank you for this Sam! One of your best, validating videos for me. I knew my score would be 13 before you even started. All of these traits, fully describe my family. And nobody in my family will take responsibility for their toxicity because they do not recocnize it; they will not do the personal development work and when one sibling did, they twisted and distorted the PD information to suit their victim mentality and still sick narrative. Any contact with family usually results in these behaviors being played out yet again. To them, it is normal and I am weird and wrong.😂
I appreciate your knowledge, insight and wisdom. It has been very helpful and liberating for me, and others, I am sure!😊❤
Thank u for the video. I LOVE IT when u talk more about ill families. Its very validating.. they try to make u feel the crazy one. No one believes me to this day when I tell them who my familiy really is.
Nobody does, indeed.
Stop bothering yourself. That's what I did. 😂
I was wondering for a video such as this from Sam.
13/13. Years ago I came to the same conclusion as Sam gives. No contact. Ever. They will take and take, suck you dry and before you know it, you're older, wonder where all your attention and time has gone. I'd be damned before I let that sh* happen to me. So much to live for, and dancing with mentally ill people/relatives is certainly not one of them. Big Pass.
I've been pouring into my own desires, making sure they are my own, learning new things, and creating, and so far it's helped to reconfigure my inner landscape for the better.
I used to think that I have gotten stronger, therefore I could handle a boundary breaking attempt by my ''family'', and then I remember I was in the same situation many times before and they always found ways to ensnare me by appealing to my humanity but nvm treating me as such.
I only wish I had the vocabulary of the abuse I endured earlier on in my teens.
Throughout the school system, many teachers tried to reach out to me, they could see I was perturbed by something.
I felt trapped because I did not know how to explain what was going on at home.
Likely, had I said anything they would have kicked me out of the house as they often threatened me when I ''misbehaved'.
So I was really trapped by my material conditions of that time.
During this time I was contemplating suicide, and the only counter thought to this I had was among the lines of ''Why should I die and they live?''
I'm not the one lying, I'm not the one stealing from my own daughter's hard work, I'm not neglecting my kids; letting them go weeks without food and other basic needs and leaving them to the mercy of neighbours.
I thought of them as hypocrites and I could crystal clear see how they wanted me to turn into them.
I had no doubt in my mind about it and that disgusted me beyond belief.
I was going to to claw my way out no matter what.
I hope that more youth in similar situations can find Sam's videos, I wish I have.
I will always remain grateful for Dr. Sam in providing us with this valuable education.
To be able to have the proper words to describe abuse makes a world of difference.
Thank you Sam.
My family had 9. If it wasn’t for finding a relationship with Jesus I would not have made it out alive. I was extremely suicidal.
all glory to G👑D☝☝☝🎯💯👌
Amen! Glory to the Lamb!
this is extemely relatable to what I know about some families
The loyalty test preys on the fear of abandonment
Going no contact with a mentally ill family is a protection mechanism. I agree with everything you said. It is exactly the case.
Thank you, professor Vaknin. This is useful. I assigned score to my family of origin (9)and my in laws (10). Some signs overlap, some are different. The degrees of disfunction also differ. I feel validated in my perception. Most damaging IMHO was parentification in both as well as boundaries violation. Sadly, my husband insist he grew up in happy family, his wife ( that’s me) comes from the dysfunctional one - true. I knew it since I was a little girl. Avoided mother at any opportunity- spent time with animals and run across the street to my neighbors. There, I felt safe and loved. I pass on the love I received from my neighbor Michalina, to any child that came to my door. I let my children bring any of their classmates or neighbors’ kids to eat and sleep at my home.
@@barbpaq I hear you so well. 🙏❤️🌷
Thank you for explaining the dynamics. Last year my mother pushed me to the limits and l went no contact.. I felt and I feel guilty for doing so, she is 78 years old and has health problems.. I was contemplating reconnecting with her.. I scored all 13. I will take your advice and remain no contact and look for therapy.. Thank you for opening my eyes. I hope, it’s not too late for me.
It is never to late.
This guy addresses the most interesting topics. Thanks Prof. Vaknin!
Another informative video, thank you.
13/13. Which is why I went no contact with the whole family. Thank you Sam, this was informative and scary at the same time.
I need to get my girl home and move away from here. I need to set a plan
Professor Sam vaknin is a great source , added to my one of favourites , when it comes to understanding narcissists and psychopaths and psychology in general, he is a must to listen to
I did cut ties with family for 2 yrs until the narcissistic oldest sister is struggling with cancer! They sucked me in again in their dark basement! I do not want my sister to suffer or die . I then realised that i surely have a trauma bond with her and i still need to heal ! It is not easy !
No one told me when my brother died! That broke my heart. I never fit in that family .
Great video
Excellent one. Thanks Sam. I hope that today you are happy . Cheers
Well.. I've run out of ticks on my list.. though I knew this before I watched.. tickety tick tick tick.. 🤦🏼♀️
Sounds a bit like my family when we were growing up, control and insecurity are common denominators I think!
Wow thank you so much for this. My childhood was characterised by all 13 of these and it is only now aged 50 and with the help of a brilliant therapist that I can start to unravel the damage that was done. My dad died a while ago and I’ve recently gone no contact with my mum and brother. The deciding factor for me was when my mother chose to believe my narcissistic ex husband and blamed me. I was emotionally abused by this man for 16 years until I had the courage to recognise the toxicity and escape. I have limited contact with him - we have children together so I can’t go no contact completely. Recently he attended my nephews wedding with my mum and brother so is clearly still close to them despite me not having spoken to them for nearly 2 years. Do you think that growing up in an abusive house makes you more susceptible to pairing up with toxic partners? I can see a pattern in my past that I have now managed to break thank god. Your wisdom and insight has been so invaluable in my journey and this video particularly struck a chord.
Yes. I do think so, as well. We sometimes repeat what we learned/ experienced/ absorbed in our early years.
Wow u just described everything in my life in such detail. Sadly I have this type of family. Now I cannot function anymore after all of this.
Thank you so much. I understand😅 the dynamics clearer.
Yup my family blood line mental illness,alcoholism,addiction,toxicity,pride,ego, narcissistic tendency's,gas-lighting,negative thinking,anxiety...It has destroyed a great part of my life & siblings!
My in laws family have 10 of these...i went no contact with them. I began to feel very unsafe in that environment...thank god i saw sense! Thanks for doing this video👍
Only 5 out of 13 for me. Thank goodness my family is normal.
Just kidding, my family is dysfunctional as hell! 😂
lol
Same, scored 5, but i still think they are crazy disfunctional
13 also lucky for Italians. Interesting talk.
I agree
Hello, my family tried to kill me a couple years ago due to this hostility. Strangulation, traumatic brain injury and body trauma such as seizures put me in the hospital; nevertheless, I graduated with my Masters Degree in Clinical Psychology a couple months ago. Thank you for your contribution to mental health as I broke free after the childhood trauma; however, I married into it. But, now, I'm going free and happy! Best to you, Mindy
Wow, I knew it was bad, but 12? How did I endure 16 years of it?
i dont know how we did it -- but we did!
Yes we did🎉🎉🎉
My parents were not jointly operating in the same direction, so that in retrospect I see a kind of balance between my narcissistic, histrionic mother and my WW2 "shell-shocked" father, who seemed to enjoy her exciting displays and even egg her on. I appreciate the various insights. Because the parents were so different, I was able to see there were options and I carefully observed other role models among friends' families and teachers and even sit coms on television. It's always been a struggle to maintain a positive attitude, but at least I knew what that could look like.
'The parents don't even verbalise their expectations, they just punish you if you don't meet them - overriding expectation is mind reading - Amen... what a great way to live. Still trying to free myself now from FOG - 'fear, obligation and guilt' except I'm not fearful, it's just so covert how it's done and no one can communicate properly so it's so awkward to get away from. Now guilt trips passed to grandkids but not any more.
When the title of this lecture popped up in my feed, I had a heartbeat skip :). Thank you so much for talking about the family system. Each person's behavior and character are formed in a context, and that contextual environment is crucial in forgiving oneself and learning new, healthy skills and boundaries. I hope you do more videos on the family. You are a genius with a great flair for teaching. Much love to you and your "long-suffering wife"! 😅😂🥰
Solid 8. No wonder I jumped ship after highschool.
Oh my, thank you so much for your sense of humour in the start of such a heavy theme. Such a breath of fresh air. Also, your knowledge is invaluable.
Hello Prof. Vaknin. I’m so grateful daily for your video publications. I am a poster child for narcissistic supply. I would love to have you address specifically the pathology of the supply side. In previous videos this pathology is touched on or woven in to the greater topic. Or perhaps you could direct myself and other ‘victims’, though I don’t consider myself a victim, but rather a naive dance partner, to content you may have already created. Sometimes I feel I have very similar interior landscape to the narcissism you described in yourself. I appreciate you. Please and thank you.
Hi Peggy, watch Prof. Vaknin’s videos on borderline personality BPD to learn more about the pathology of the narcissist supply. The BP is the dance partner to the narcissist.
No contact many years ago, a sibling was diagnosed by Dr. Lucas Van Orden MD with psychopathy at age 21 while he was in substance abuse recovery program. My Mom had all 9 traits of borderline personality disorder, and I’m sure I have Avoidant Personality Disorder. Add to the chaos, most of my abusers are Cambellites( members of the Church of Christ cult). It’s been a wild ride. Thanks to Professor Sam!
I am thinking of moving away once i get married but i dont know if they will let me be at peace
Thank you.. Its so difficult to get a hold of this. And take effective streps to mobilize myself
Wow, thank you so much for opening my eyes. I have made so many mistakes raising my son. Thank you for all the informations.
BINGO!!!!! 13 OF 13! Worst part is, almost all so called upper class families, I have been acquainted with ,have all 13 of these characteristics. The worst thing is sibling rivalry are hall marks of these families, which results in siblings entering into horrible relationships outside of the family because they are so unused to compassion and understanding and always stand to be manipulated by strangers who bond over mutual hatred for a sister or brother and family members. It is hell growing up knowing your own family were your worst enemies, and most people can never face this situation without joining in the same destructive behavior. I have stayed only somewhat sane by being determined not to be like the rest of my family. It is the realization of how far family members will go to destroy you that punches me in my gut. I am so thankful that when I was younger, I never knew the magnitude of the evil around me, if I had known, I would have died of a broken heart. Now I see all these challenges and past hurts as fodder for my writing, crazy people make fantastic fictional characters!
I totally feel you!!
Live saving education!!!!!!
Infinite gratitude to prof. Sam!
This very much described my in laws
Excellent explanations!
I am very grateful for your videos!
Thank you so much Dear Professor for helping us. ❤
It's funny, because if you had asked me ten years ago, I'd totally have said none of this applied to my family, the reason being I was so brainwashed that I lived in a state of dissociation from a very young age. You say one sign are children who want to runaway; I'll add also children who either don't want to leave or feel they can't. I did the latter. I left home at 34 because I was the only earner _and_ caregiver in a household of three adults, and I did it feeling that I had to compensate them (which I did) for being such a bad child. Now I can see clearly how my family ticks all the boxes, and that explains a lot.
This is probably one of your most important videos - giving people the ability to judge whether or not they should stick it out with their family - and whether their family is going to take them down or not. Thank you.
Ah yes Sam , I did learn from you all about Narcissists. I hear other people talk about it but people who have not listened to you can get it wrong. I always have a smile ☺ Congrats on your seriously good work over the years and a recognition of that by having a day .
My score is 12/13 the only one I wasn't sure about was the focus on the past/future. My family never really discussed anything to indicate this fully. I am the rebel/scapegoat/ black sheep and went no contact 12 years ago to protect my sanity. As it stands, I only have a son and daughter with whom I have a good relationship. Everyone else, including dad, his partner, his sister, my sister and my eldest son behave as if I had never existed. Mother abandoned me at 5 years old. I think you would find a lot of issues in my family. After half a century I walked away to heal myself..it was painful and takes time and effort. Thank you Sam for this validation.
This is my family! All 13...I am no contact for the most part, but civil if we unavoidably bump into one another in public. I feel sorry for my daughter having no extended family, but I think it's the better option for her.
Very enlightening and explained so clearly. Thank you for the video. ❤
Your videos are fantastic. Easy to understand and so logical, that everyone can profit of your knowlege
This is so timely. Thanks Mr. Vaknin
My family has 10 of these. Everything in our household revolved around my mom's trauma from WWII. It has taken me YEARS of therapy to escape that prison.
Great video, spot on about my family (13 out of 13). As a kid I knew something was wrong and moved away from them (classic sign) when I could. They never changed, so yes, after years of trying to connect, I gave up and went no contact.
Hi Sam, throughly enjoy your video’s and book. I drew a straight line through all 13 for my family 😂. I broke away or was cast out over 30 years ago.
Birth to 8 years old I was the Golden Child. 8 to somewhere early 20’s The Lost Child. 30 onward I was the Scapegoat. 62 years old now and living a peaceful fulfilling life. Thank you for your work.
After my wife passed in 2018 they did their damn best to draw me back in. Far too educated and experienced for that to happen now.
WOW!!... The last sentence sums it up!! 🙏
I'm listening to this all, very intently,and so far its 100% 🤣. I just heard you talk about how the roles given in a dysfunctional family are mismatched and I'm just now coming to the deep realization of how much that has impacted my life- for me, being treated as "the not so smart" one, and without skills- parentified, worker bee, invisible, fixer, scapegoat- depending on the hour or day. At 57, just now seeing myself clearly and being able to acknowledge self. Those false beliefs are so utterly insane based on the facts and reality! Life changing, eye-opening. Though it clearly held me back from reaching my full potential, I'm extremely fortunate. The severe co-dependency and skills served me well in my business, with clients, my life, having great capacity to take care of my solo self now. Though my family members are all doing fine financially, I now can clearly see what I was blinded to before. My life is SO significantly better than theirs' on pretty much every level.
#6 - Huge- so true! I bet this is one reason my mother moved us to a different apartment, and different school each year through grade 8; isolation by different means and different forms, beyond this. Oh, and changed my last name, I think it was 5 times. Nothing crazy about that!
He just described the Roy family from Succession. 😂
Unbelievable, the more I listen, the more I see my family in the 13 points. 😱😱😱
I am still suffering in this kind of family..because i am too afraid to move out as they emotionally manipualte me
You just have to look at the homeless epidemic around America and wonder no more why this is the case. Many traumatised children end up down these paths.
I love what Raymond Moody said, "The only people who are normal are those you don't know very well." Let your mind alone, as James Thurber said. Life's hard enough without worrying if your family is mentally ill or not.
super point.. discernment is the cure
I'm not sure how to measure my family of origin. Like all families, it's complicated, both good and bad. Mostly, it was good. Wonderful mom.
There was so much potential for our family. My mom and dad instilled good values for sure. However, things were far from perfect. Our dad started an affair with another teacher where he taught school. This started when I was 12, my brother was 6. It lasted for 6 years. He was rarely home for those 6 years. My mom had divorce papers served to him at the school in '78. Good for her❤. My mom, brother and myself had a huge sense of relief, because now life was truthful.
All of this had to be toxic because I started my young adult years feeling empty inside. When it came down to it, yes I could "find" my true self, my core. However, on the surface (and a bit below), I just blew-unguided by my values-in the wind . I could be skittish too.
My dad married the affair 🤭 woman. They had 2 kids , ouch!! (grown up now). My brother and I see my dad, his wife and our half siblings mostly on holidays and have done so for years.
You know, everything bothered me so much more than my brother. He would tell me to get over it already. He'd say much worse happens to families and we should be grateful for what we have and what went right. I agree with him, however I can't deny how it changed me, our family, and mostly, mostly our sweet, fun mom.
I have the same story. Except the chaos in my childhood made me psychotic/CPTSD and by the time I was 15 I was insane. It was embarassing for me and then by the time I was 18 I was using drugs. I still care for my family but im so detached from them at this point I don't really feel apart of it. Maybe that's exactly what I need.
Another 13/13. All siblings and parents are passed on. The last two to survive I caregive (father and sister) . It's been a few years since they passed and I went no contact to all the rest of my relatives except for my daughter. I started to plan my escape around the age of 10. Resorted to several run away attempts and was put in a mental facility at 15 diagnosed as BPD. Did escape thru marriage at 19. Then no contact for long stretches except to short visit. Went back 13 years ago to help my aging dad and schizophrenic sister. I am alone now almost a year and healing is slow. Basically still a basket case but semi functional. Surrounded by lunatics in a trailer park but can come and go as I please. A good step up from the slavery of my family.
You are free now and with that freedom you will heal...
This resonated so much, every word was like a punch. 😅 Very powerful Sam!!!!!!! Thank you so much for this. Long awaited validation. I'm from a mentally ill family of 10 with more than 10 of the list so has been very hard to push back against them. Pretty sure mum is schizoid narcissist mum and dad is a paranoid narcissist. So much mental illness, trauma and pain. The 8 kids have come out in weird and wonderful variations of the parents traits. Haha basement crawlers. 😂
Scored 10+. Family Values-strangers welcome! If u look good-u must be good. Protect thy predator- bully ungroomable kids, keep incest, murder and sue-a-sides secret NO CONTACT 3+ yrs 🙏💜😌
Very good. Thank you.
Dysfunctional patterns that damage the children .... Awesome content. Please more of this!
This video answers so many questions, thank you so much professor🙏
It's also a very lucky number in Hinduism.... The number of Shiva.
Also it takes 13 members to start a council..... The Historical figure Jesus had twelve apostles because under Deuteronomic Law 13 men can make a council... Like the original thirteen colonies did
Jesus - a HISTORICAL figure? Too sad you don't believe in the only SAVIOR and Hinduism with its 30 0000 or so gods is a demonic sect.
Excellent video!! Unfortunately what is a bigger problem is that children of two different mentally ill families often find their spouses who are from another mentally ill family. A struggle -unbelievable HARD struggle for this marriage to survive. Both for lack of coping mechanisms but also the major lack of support from family members to make the new “family” successful. In fact then the family of origin on both sides get added to the mix.
Sign my family up.
The future is that we should classify it
Brain Health
Just as for example:-
We have Heart Health, Liver Health, Kidney Health, Lung Health!!!
You overwhelm an organ
You have a problem
Simple
Don't overwhelm or let yourself be overwhelmed
Brain Health as in all illness affecting the Brain happens when we have too much too cope with and it's our Brains way of saying NO
Take a break
Your bucket has been filled and is overflowing.
This is a stress response which is totally NORMAL
Prof Sam Vaknin - My ‘Family?’ scored a 13! Thank you so much for this video. You have answered the remaining questions, I have spent my entire 57 years of life, I had left to research. You have given one little girl the clarity and empowerment through her 57 year older self and I cannot find the accurate words to tell you how vastly, for the better, you just changed my life!
Thank you for being the voice of authority, with the reputation and expertise in affirming that those in families who score more than a 10, mine scored 13, must go no contact.
You specified it was the right thing for my own sanity and health, to go no contact with mother, father, brother, daughter, etc… for my own survival. I did that 15 to 20 years ago. About 2 years ago the brother reached out to me as if nothing had ever happened, as if he didn’t do anything to me ever. I let him know I wouldn’t ever have any interested in being any part of the ‘family’.
Thank you!!!!! 🤗🤗🤗🤫💚
Tracking a suicidal trait in our family, made me realise this is not just me syndrome. When one member of a family is difficult, track back through parents, their brothers / sisters, even their cousins and u usually find a pattern...... Caroline
Scored a whopping 10! Woo hoo 🙌
I also think that my mom and sis who match with all 13 signs, they maybe care abt me so im afraid to break out..wat do i do
Thank you you are amazing you open our eyes. God bless you and Lydia.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
The part about grades. My parent would praise my brother for only getting two f,s and four d,s. I was chastised for getting a c. After fifty plus years of abuse they refuse any accountability. I did something worse than let them abuse me. I let them abuse my children.
12/13 but I'm not surprised. Fantastic video. Thanks.