This isn’t how the Stare works. The Stare inflicts all the pain and suffering you’ve caused back on you. How you personally feel about it makes no difference. The Stare dropped Galactus. A cosmic pillar of reality.
If we’re going to decide to not write this off as bad writing and play along, galactus HAS shown regret for his actions despite them being necessary for the function of the universe.
Yeah kinda bored of them writing in weird dumb reasons that people are immune to the penance stare at this point, really cheapens it. I mean Frank Castle, Deadpool, two who should be prime candidates? Is anybody not immune to it?
Yeah punisher is one of the worst characters for this tbh. There’s just so much plot armour on him. Sometimes writers can come up with cool creative ways for him to get out of situations against super humans unharmed, but most of the time they have to dumb down / weaken other heroes to give him even ground (see Garth ennis). Punisher would have been dead a thousand times over if not for plot armour.
its not plot armor when its canon....canon is permanent until its retconned...not plot armor but if you don't know the actual words for retcon...then yea, plot armor from the wrong comic book series.
why not. This is why you don't let other people steal your work, now they changed the canon because one writer likes Punisher and is tired of people calling him evil. He is evil, you don't just kill...look at the X men, they rarely killed, until new writers stole the topic and made them killers. Demons are made to be evil, they don't feel bad and yet they are affected by the stare. Im so done with Marvel and DC. only comic shop worth reading is Dark Horse Comics. Fear Agent was great, but no one is gonna pick up his mantel. They let the story play out and end...they don't beat a...dead horse into the ground long after people started asking for no more...
This isn’t how the penance stare even works. The writers of these comics have a fundamental misunderstanding of how GRs powers were originally written. There’s no reason that “lack of regret” should have anything to do with how the stare works. The entire point of the stare is to be a perfect weapon against entities who are irredeemably evil, all the stare actually requires is that you have a soul, and that you have inflicted pain or suffering on to another person.
I'm pretty sure it inflicted all the pain and suffering you've caused to the innocent or caused unjustly. I don't think the penance stare would cause, say a victim of sexual assault to feel the pain her attacker felt when she shot him in self defense. I could be wrong because I haven't read comics in like 30 years but I do remember it having something to do with the pain you caused to innocents.
@@Lord_Numpty ehh.. I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt the punisher has never ever hurt someone innocent before. I can imagine he has hurt innocencecaught in the crossfire, or someone who frank thought was more evil then they actually were (such as a mistaken identity, or misinformation.) even if he has somehow avoided all of that, he has probably hurt the innocent by, I dunno, Killing a beloved relative or friend, or lover. (who happened to be one of frank's targets.)
@@TranshumanMarissa I mean, if we wanna argue it's about inflicting penance, then INTENT has to factor in. Frank Castle NEVER wanted to hurt innocents, and while some innocents DO get caught in the crossfire here and there, it's never by intention.
Spirit of Vengeance, not spirit of 'hey, don't be mean to those violent criminals' Justice causes pain to the guilty, you think people should feel bad about that?
Name one thing that Punisher would consider more painful than continuing to live while everyone he's ever cared about is dead and the people out there who caused it are still doing such.
@artyd42 the physical pain of everyone he's ever killed, brutalized, or tortured magnified tenfold and returned to him. That would hurt a whole lot more. And remember, it's emotional pain too. How many families do you think he's destroyed? Do you think their wives and children loved them any less?
@@johnaeryns5364 It's a moral dilema then? Do serial rapists or pedos have feelings? Could they be mentally ill individuals misunderstood by society? Then why does it anger you when you hear about their victims? Justice is a human concept, not a natural one, It's difficult to apply a system that isn't even perfected yet
@rodrigocoockiemonster4460 OK, couple things. First, get off your high horse prickzilla, it's a comic book. Second, ghost rider is the spirit of vengeance. Justice has nothing to do with it.
Frank actually survived because Deadpool used an Angel Feather on him before he encountered Ghost Rider, since it counts as divine protection he was unaffected. The Penance Stare was used on Frank later to full affect. So no, he isn't immune because he doesn't regret what he does.
We'll he did sound cool, and i think if the punisher gets devine or hellish forged weapons, he could take some power houses, but with guns and bazookas, it's never gonna happen😂
@@JohnBonachon I heard people Deadass say Punisher with normal weapons is an Avengers Level Threat. They'd probably believe he could with or without magic.
@allforone3427 i love the punisher but we gotta be real perfect example : from dc my fav is batman but he cant beat sup's and dilusional ppl say he can ppl just take sups kindness and gullibleness
Well perhaps you can take it as the punisher not regretting his actions even reflected back to him. As in despite going through all the pain he inflicted in his life, his drive for revenge gave him the strength to maintain his resolve.
@@cursedhfy3558Still, that's not how it works, every amount of pain you caused is reflected back to you, exactly how they felt it. It doesn't matter if you are insane, aphatic or even if you come to terms with it. You feel it like they felt it, there is no turn around about it. But of course, classic marvel writters don't give a damn and can't even follow a bare standar of what a character is and should be able to do.
@@draconomega Batman fans will tell you that pain is in the mind, so a disciplined mind can endure it no matter how extreme it is. Marvel fans will tell you that Batman is hardly the only character to have demonstrated that.
@@chaz9808 Oh yeah, at least clasic writters had fun with goofy stories. A weapon that can even kill galactus? Sure, why not! How does Thanos moves around? probably an helicopter! Let's make a villain that's just a floating head with tiny arms! And we will call him Modok! he works for the N*zis 2: electric bogalo. Now everything must be the new multi-series big event, everyone is serious, it's always life or death. "THE MULTIVERSE IS AT RISK FOR 10nt TIME! WHAT SHALL WE DOOoOoOOo?!" . This might sound insane, but I agree a bit with TT:Go is take on the subject. Don't like the show, I prefer the original teen titans any day, for ever, but the point about everything not needing to be serious is right. Specially when everythimg was not built to be serious in the first place, it was built to be *entertaining*
psychopathic Killers can't ignore the pen and stare because the pain and stare isn't just about whether you feel okay about something or not. it's about the innocent people you have harmed keyword INNOCENT Frank goes after the guilty thus something that only targets individuals who have harmed the innocent wouldn't be able to touch him
@@robinjameson4261 Yeah that's not why Frank survived though. Deadpool used an Angel Feather on the Punisher before he encountered Ghost Rider, which made Frank immune. The Punisher later encountered Ghost Rider again and had it used on him, and it worked as intended. The Stare doesn't care if you've only hurt bad people, only that you've hurt people at all.
They can still feel pain, Frank for all intents and purposes cannot. The stare does no damage, it just provides the feelings. The comic even reminds you of how Frank responds to pain and injury before he resists the stare when he gets stabbed. He literally just assesses how much it'll affect his combat abilities and otherwise is completely unfazed by it and moves on. That's why something that only inflicts feelings doesn't work on him. A generic psychopath, barring them having specifically have a mental illness related to their pain response, would definitely feel it and react if stabbed in the ribs or faced the stare. Frank only expresses that he feels no regret, but the real reason the stare doesn't work is because he doesn't feel anything at all. Also, just because a character says something, doesn't mean it's the entire explanation or even the real explanation. They could just be pulling something out their ass in that moment to sound cool. It's a comic.
@@allforone3427 well that'll do it as well. I'm just saying in the general case since Frank only kills people who are guilty, the penance stare has no capacity to hurt him regardless of what Deadpool does.
@@robinjameson4261 It literally did hurt him though. After this Frank had encountered Ghost Rider again and had it used on him, to which it worked as intended. It doesn't matter that he only hurt bad people, he still felt all the pain he had inflicted on others.
The thing about the Punisher is, he isn’t evil. He’s apathetic. There is a reason why H.P. Lovecraft believed that to be worse. I have to agree with him. Edit: Apparently people are keep missing my replies, but I’ve been emphasizing after the fact in the replies section that Frank might arguably be apathetic in some places, but isn’t wholly apathetic.
@@teleportedbreadfor3days Lovecraft had a complicated hystory racism but he was also mentally ill and traumatized by his mother to be fearful of the world and ashamed of himself. His racism was a part of a greater fear of anything or anyone who was different or unknown.
The Punisher is an agent of vengeance. He literally becomes the Angel of Vengeance. Ghost Rider is a spirit of vengeance. His Penitent Stare is vengeance for the victims. Punisher may be immune because he works in the same sphere of influence, and none of his victims deserve vengeance, being victimizers deserving vengeance themselves.
that and his backstory is that of being a apathetic soldier. he is a character that isn't supposed to feel anything at all. what good is pain and suffering to one that doesn't feel it?
While this isnt a good reason for him being immune to the stare, it is a hood explanation on why ghost rider wouldnt even attack him in the first place.
Similar problem with the portrayal of Hell in the Netflix series Lucifer. In that series you don’t go to Hell based on your sins, you go there based on your guilt for them. By that logic wouldn’t Heaven just be full of sociopaths and psychopaths?
Consider that Adam and Eve were banished for eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Essentially god supposedly wanted us incapable of telling the difference according to Christianity, sounds sociopathic don't it?
Plot Armor. It's extremely strong in this one. The Penance Stare, or the original Hellfire that burns the soul, both punishes the internal person, regardless of their emotions. Hellfire was one of those things that punished based on the crime, and the intent as an additional factor. One story showed a bully who got burned, and it haunted him, turning him into a quieter man. A murderer, with no guilty conscience, was burned right to his soul, and did not come out of the shock. He was turned into a vegetable. The Penance Stare was supposed to inflict the pain and suffering that a person inflicted on others, based in the Innocent blood they spilled, or Innocents they harmed. A better explanation is that Frank killed only a few innocents, witnesses to his crimes of murdering crime lords, murderers, pedos, and the like. He could endure the pain of a few innocents, as he did not plan out those murders, and faced guilt for it. The rest? No guilt at all, and they were not innocent.
Actually better than i was using to justify it, because mine didn't make much sense anyway. That said, this does kinda make it make more sense, because the punisher is usually all about killing bad guys, and leaving innocent people alone. If it's specifically supposed to do damage based on innocent death, then yeah, this basically would leave frank relatively immune.
plot armor works for stories. If its the writers who are throwing out established canon for one reason or another...then plot has nothing to do with it....but if you're unable to come up with an actual reason....its what happens when the original creator has nothing to do with the current writers. Basically stealing and killing the thing we used to love and appreciate. marvel is dead, im just wondering when you guys are gonna notice. At least it made it longer than DC
Penance Stare would not be as great of pain, as that of losing a Child. There is something about a Parent who loses a child, and they carry with them an unimaginable pain. This is no different with The Punisher.
The only other person that I remember surviving the penance stare is Deadpool. I think the real reason behind this is that in order for the penance stare to work you have to have spilled innocent blood. The Punisher and Deadpool for all their flaws and the literal mountains of bodies they leave in their wake, have never killed innocent people. It’s like when Ghost Rider fought World War Hulk, he absolutely could have beaten the Hulk but only if he was threatening the innocent, which none of the illuminati were.
Deadpool has killed loads of innocent people and been indirectly responsible for loads more. Realistically the Punisher has too, not nearly as many, for sure, but still some.
In the 1990’s, Deathlok and Morbius both came through it relatively unscathed. That version of Deathlok was a cyborg body with the brain of a pacifist scientist implanted in it, and the scientist’s sins were things like stealing a candy bar in elementary school and having arguments with his wife on occasion. Morbius suffered from the Penance Stare, but told Ghost Rider something to extent of “you’ve shown me nothing that I didn’t already know”, because his own conscience ate away at him. It may have helped that, in both cases, Ghost Rider was using the Penance Stare to determine if he was dealing with a good or evil person, as opposed to setting out to punish them.
deadpool used to be a bad guy...hes spilled innocent blood, so your concept is immediately disproved in your first two sentences, before you even finished talking, you disproved it yourself....how can people talk in oxymorons and not know they are contradicting themselves.
For those who are mad at the outcome, a quick reminder that Stan Lee himself didn't mess with powerscaling and said that after dozens of "who'd win this" and "who'd win that" questions, said that it's literally up to the writer. Not trying to start a flame war here, just pointing out that this plot armor is literally a choice from the writer, as stupid or as deserved as it is.
@@GrimSwag Lack of a soul is a pretty good way to avoid being burned by the stare. IMO... this isn't because Frank is immune. He's already lost his soul and just hasn't noticed yet.
@@artyd42 Look up the original comic. Deadpool used a divine artifact on the punisher which gave him divine protection. That is why the penance stare does nothing. It has nothing to do with having a soul... Or even regret for that mater.
I would like to point out that *Frank* thinks it doesn't work because he regrets nothing, not that the Stare actually works that way. The reason it doesn't work, as another commenter pointed out, Frank kills those deserving vengeance, those who cause hurt. Because of this, the Stare has nothing to punish Frank with, as Frank is carrying out the same mission the Rider should be doing...
You could argue that it's not Castle's lack of regret, but the fact that his kills wind up doing more good than harm, which protects him from the bulk of the Stare. I think it should make him feel something, but not much compared to the pain and suffering that had been inflicted on Castle over the years. The Demon of Vengeance is a punisher, just the same as Frank is seen as both angel and demon; they are great foils for one another, and if there is anyone in canon that the Stare should not affect, it is the Punisher.
I do not believe the Punisher is without regret. If he did not have any regrets that would mean he does not regret failing to prevent the murder of his wife and children.
these writers like to steal stuff that isn't their own and change it to a way that makes the previous generation of fans hate it...hoping a new generation will like it. Only for it to fail and then we get everyone wanting less or none.
That's because he's Marvel's Batman, essentially. Hell, they even had him stealing the gadgets of villains he took down and using that to up his effective power tier level.
As someone else said, the penance stare inflicts all the pain and suffering you've inflicted on the innocent, and despite the mountains of bodies Frank has left in his wake, they're all far from innocent. Frank saying it's because he regrets nothing is more than likely a calculated guess on his part, due to not truly knowing how the penance stare works.
I feel like a way around this could have been that; 1. The Punisher doesn't generally tend to inflict prolonged pain or suffering to his victims, he's ruthless and efficient, not a torturer. If it's just the 'pain' of putting some bullets through a braincase but not the actual 'damage', as a solider he's used to pain. 2. Perhaps during his travels to devise ways to defeat Ghost Rider, he came across a way to delay or dilute the effect of the stare. Enough to bluff Ghost Rider into believing that the stare wasn't working and stop performing it before the effects overrode whatever buffer The Punisher had implemented.
God I hate how so many modern writers of The Ghost Rider literally ruin the one aspect of how his Penance Stare is meant to work, It doesn't use the individuals point of view on their actions when inflicting the stare i.e Thanos or Punisher It is meant to JUST inflict all the physical and emotional pain onto the precipitant of the stare of all the people who they have hurt and the only way to invalidate it is in three ways 1. To be a cosmic power above The Ghost Rider 2. Not to have a soul 3. To be innocent - meaning not having sinned... Which the punisher has and willingly accepts that he will go to hell for his actions in a belief that it is for the greater good/vengeance
'im know it ain't Canon, but 'im think the "Penance Stare won't work on Frank because (the majority of) who he killed wasn't deserving of vengeance" angle fits. Other than Ju Ju from Doc, etc.
The reason is modern marvel writers can't cope with the idea of inherently evil acts. Everything is relative to them so they can justify any depravity.
@@MrARhodes The Penance Stare doesn't 'care' about what type of person you have hurt its only criteria in inflicting the victim of the stare is if one of your actions that has caused someone pain made you sin/something worthy to damn you to hell etc, its kinda hard to explain lol but its like the difference between accidentally hurting someone while playing football vs beating them with a crowbar - When inflicted by the power of the Stare you would only suffer from the crowbar analogy. Now going back to Frank he would or should I say Should suffer the judgment of the Penance Stare Because of the How he has inflicted on those who have been put under his tender mercy's. Now saying That Frank would be the perfect vessel for a spirit of vengeance particularly the original fallen angle of justice due to how they both operate. Yeah so to summarize Frank would not be immune to the Penance Stare because he has sinned and the stare doesn't care who you have hurt is. Also side note with some of the terrible ghost rider runs and how they make Frank or other characters immune like that but how does that work when you consider that they have Definitely sinned before they took up their superhero identity like with the Punisher and his military black opps stuff (that ended up killing innocents)
@lexi9956 Had the best and most logical response to this, quote: '@lexi9956 This, in his back story (Born) he's got his own deal with Vengeance, a pact sealed back when he was fighting in Vietnam (or whatever they ret-coned it to now.) which is why he's the only person in his unit who survived the Tet offensive. This is further supported by the fact that Frank becomes the Ghost Rider in some continuities. In short, he's on the pay roll, he's working for Vengeance, even if he isn't quite fully aware of it. Now, whether this affected the outcome of the fight by Vengeance blocking the Penance Stare either because Vengeance withdrew his power from the Ghost Rider, or the Punisher just flat out shrugged it off is open for interpretation, but threatening Frank with pain isn't much of a threat, the closest thing he's got to a super power is an absurdly high pain tolerance. It really feels like this encounter is kind of what seals Frank's fate. It was a test and he passed, Vengeance has it's eye on him to eventually inherit the Ghost Rider's power. Face it, whatever else Frank is, he's a goddamn vengeance machine, it's literally the only thing he cares about. If you were Vengeance and two of your minions were in conflict, which one would you pick? The reluctant Johnny Blaze who doesn't really want the job, or the guy who is already doing it without any real powers at all and is completely dedicated to your cause? In someways, you could argue that Frank lost that fight, he has no soul left to torment.' Also, in an alternate reallity even angels "hired" the Punisher to do some "punishing" by literally bring him back to life and into theys "pocket", so be it by pact with Vengeance in his origin story, being ressurrected by heaven to keep doing what he does, it seems that Frank got clearance to do what he does by a cosmic power AND he might not have a soul as well AND he doesn't hurt directly the innocent willingly, if you count indirectly then even Jesus could be guilty of this by becaming a religious figure and what his religion did, so yeah Frank checks the mark on these 3 ways, independently of what he thinks, believes and knows about himself.
The punisher is like Wolverine. He may not be a good guy, but if you’ve done nothing wrong he’s not messing with you. Ghostrider will show you how you’ve hurt your fellow man, The Punisher works to make everything equal.
Mcu thanos did what he thought needed to be done. Comic Thanos did what he did because he's in love with death and also an asshole. I'm willing to let him be immune for 'reasons' but Punisher and Deadpool being immune is dumb.
i believe that it didnt work on punisher because his “victims” had it coming they all were people the penance stare would have worked on thus punisher was ok killing them! as for deadpool… he so bat crap crazy he probably just shrugged it off haha
even then....the stare works on Galactus, the stare works for demons who were created to be evil and not feel bad...this writer stole something and changed it, f that guy, people should protest that fuqer.
there? thats like a direction? how do you read comics and not know how to spell "their"? or even notice you didn't use the right there, their or they're?
You know its bad writing when even the Ghost Rider movie got the penance stare right. The only person who was immune was the main villian of the movie not because he had no regrets because he had no soul and it was only after absorbing a bunch of souls to gain more power is when the penance stare worked on him.
I think it would’ve made more sense if it was because Frank really only kills criminals so he is in a way also dishing out vengeance so the spirit can’t kill someone acting in line with itself
By that logic, every psychopath, sociopath, and mid-tier demon and higher would be immune to the Penitent Stare. On the other hand, another more lore accurate way to explain The Punisher's Immunity: He's already Punished Himself for every kill. It's like Double Jeopardy: He Can't Be Punished For The Same Crimes Twice.
this is what happens when you give someone elses work to someone who doesn't appreciate the established canon. So sick of comics now, only seems Dark horse is worth reading. Fear Agent was great, but it shows why time travel gets boring, and fast.
I have two stages of Marvel "writing" I mostly ignore any bad writing post Spiderman Clone wars and there was alot of it and I disregard any writing post 2007 when the milkshake girls took over editorial control.
im at the point I am asking for no more. The longer they do comics, the more the new writers will change everything and the worse it gets. f these guys
The writers don't really sufficiently explain why the Stare doesn't work on Frank and him saying "I regret nothing." isn't the actual reason. The real reason, that the writers don't get into, is the same reason the Stare doesn't work on the Hulk. It only affects people who have harmed _the innocent._ Frank has never harmed an innocent and neither has the Hulk. GR even tells the Hulk something like, "If you ever harm an innocent, I'm coming back for you.".
If I remember correctly the penance stare actually inflicts all the pain and misery that you did on the INNOCENT, but since the punisher only kills criminals it does nothing to him.
This is so stupid. It's beyond ridiculous how much Marvel writers nerfed that shit. That's not how the penance stare works. Otherwise, it would be useless. How many villains and criminals don't feel any regret for their actions? Sociopaths are immune, too then! People who can't feel anything but did fucked up shit are immune, too! The victim's state of mind shouldn't matter when the stare's used on them, only the pain they've inflicted on others.
As I recall, and this may have changed over the years, but the Penance Stare is meant to punish those who have harmed innocents and are guilty of such crimes. If you’re innocent, Frank isn’t coming after you.
As a long time Ghost Rider reader let me explain this, the “no regret” nonsense was started by Jason Aaron in his Ghost Rider run in 2008-2009 which carried into Thunderbolts and Aaron’s Avengers run where Captain Marvel resisted the stare by simply being tired of feeling bad about all the awful things she’s done, this was just one of many things Aaron did to butcher the Ghost Rider mythos. Here’s the big one the Punisher is NOT immune to the penance stare and has been hit with it three times in canon Dan Ketch hit him with it in the 90s and it worked and after this Thunderbolts run Dan did it again causing Frank to drop to his knees and begin vomiting. The reason it didn’t work when Blaze did it was that Frank was mutilated by Mercy and through shenanigans Deadpool was able to heal/cleanse Frank with the feather of an angel which briefly made Frank immune to the stare
@@OniNoFro Cletus never fought Danny until Absolute Carnage a few years ago and he counts as insane like with Madcap plus he’s got the bonus of having a symbiote and the stare never worked on symbiotes (the damnation stare does but with recoil) I’m talking about the nonsense Aaron came up with where people could resist the stare simply by feeling justified in their actions or in Carol’s case just being tired of feeling bad (it was obviously MCU synergy in that case due to that issue dropping couple days before the Captain Marvel movie hit theaters stateside and they were pushing the “strongest avenger” nonsense in the movies promotions)
Before I read this I had heard about this alot and I thought it was going to play out like: Ghost Rider: 😡 Punisher: "I never killed anyone who didn't deserve it." Ghost Rider: "...well you're literally not lying at all. My bad, goodnight." 🏍️
Tbh, the punisher kills those who are deserving, much like ghost ride The key difference is that punisher WONT go after the innocent, thus he'll allow what comes next if he does do harm to someone whose innocent So it *could* be a cop out, but then again it seems this punisher is clean
The stare burns the pain you caused our of malice or indifference to mankind. That is why this is dumb but it makes sense when someone like superman or captain america are immune.
Well considering that Vengeance was an angel that got totured and mutilated by Mephisto until it became Vengeance, it would make so much sense that Ghost Rider's biggest weakness would be PURE, UNAPOLOGETIC, EVIL, so that the wish-washy eveil doers would be washed away in holy/unholy fire
I think it would have been better to express this the opposite way around, that Punisher's constant physical and emotional pain is so massive that the penance stare is just a drop in the bucket. Sort of an MCU Hulk "I'm always angry" deal.
Ghostrider be all like "Dude... like... time out here are you ok man? I've seen a lot of messed up stuff cause ya know... hell an whatever... but your reaction here man is the most messed up thing I've ever seen. You need a therapist. "
its not even accurate...Galactus has felt bad about some stuff but when ghost rider used the stare, it wasn't for the stuff he felt bad about, and yet he was still affected. Ghost rider can destroy demons whose "soul" perpose for being is to kill and torture people, why would they feel bad? They are affected by the stare...this guy should be fired.
IIRC, it was later reconned that Punisher had an angel feather or something like that in his back pocket and that's what saved him, not his lack of regret.
I always figured, Frank can survive the Penance Stare because, despite how many he’s killed, he’s never killed anyone that didn’t deserve it. He does things in such a way that basically he’s a sort of punishment on Evil in his own right, so a punishment towards evil would not work on him.
I doubt they've shown it in any comics, but it's implied he's killed a few who don't exactly deserve it. He does a lot of guilt by association. You're with the mobster you must be just as bad, or you're a junkie? then you must be bad, even if you've not commite4d crimes beyond being a junkie trying to get clean. Nor does Frank believe in redemption.
The punisher never kills the innocent willingly and believes he's an agent of vengeance just like the ghost rider, he feels the weight of every life he takes and is happily walking to hell
Punisher punishes evil of all forms, Penance Stare punishes those that commit evil. Frank never killed or harmed anyone he sees as innocent. But then again, Frank did kill some villains minding their own business who are just down on their luck. That comics I guess.
I feel like having the willpower to endure the suffering you've inflicted, and a moral core strong enough to experience that pain yourself and come out unchanged on the other side isn't exactly the same thing as negging the penance stare, but it's pretty close. The "I regret nothing" line is kinda just Punisher being an edgy badass cuz he's The Punisher lol
Playground logic from the writer. "Nuh uh that doesn't work!" "No. It does." "No, because uh because my guy doesn't care so hard it doesn't work and he lives and - "
I like to imagine that Punisher does have some kind of magic factor similar to how Lobo is banished from death. You know, defying the laws of the physical universe just by being angry enough
It makes perfect sense. The stare forces the recipient to experience all the pain and suffering they’ve inflicted on others. So? Punisher has already suffered immense trauma and pain, both physical and psychological. It’s like splashing warm water on someone standing in the pouring rain. Punisher won that one fair and square, folks.
My headcanon on why the penance stare doesn't work on the punisher is because the punisher deals unto the criminals the very pain he feels for every second he doesn't deal with them and channels that into his punishments. He felt it all before and feeling it all again is nothing to him.
Penance Stare doesn't require guilt. God sheltered Frank from its power, made him immune to it. That's all. Frank is Marvel's Archangel of Punishment, he trumps Ghost Rider. Cosmic Punisher Ghost Rider trumps all.
This description of the Penance Stare has the same inherent flaw as Lucifer's version of Hell in the TV show (not sure if it's the same in the comics.) It would basically leave the most monstrous and deserving psychopaths and sociopaths immune to Hell. Ridiculous.
I like to imagine that the Punisher felt every bit of it and shrugged it off because he knew those people deserved it, so him feeling it just means that until that point he did his job right.
yes but one fact people forget is. The comics hint that "HEAVENS" support the Punisher, you have a comic where Franks was almost dead, his body was all broken, but a Angels's feather touch his body and fully heal him, but the feather was useless to anyone else, that create the theory that Angels and Heaven itself support Frank's crusader, that he is doing the good work. That is also in line with God/Heaven in Marvel because the Ghost Riders are created by God to do basically the same job that The punisher does, protect the innocent punish the evil ones.
Think its less that he has no regrets and moreso that he's fully convinced his actions are always justified... But i guess that would also still fall within your argument. But then again marvel lore has always bowed down to the current writer of the IP to fit thier story best.
There is precedent for this in the Ghost Rider's solo series. He goes up against a prisoner named the Deacon. He uses the penance star on the Deacon. The Deacon says "It tickles. Your penance stare doesn't work on me. Because I am not bothered by anything that I have done."
The regret issue does make sense, when you consider how little of the punisher's humanity remains under the mortal embodiment of vengeance he became. The physical pain means nothing in face of his self-perceived duty.
One cannot drive mad he who is already insane. You could argue that the Punisher is more like a machine than a man, single-mindedly driven toward his crusade. Nothing will stop him, not even death. He’s like a more murderous, more driven Batman.
I've been wanting to ask are you planning on making videos on Marvel comic in DC Comic characters who are outer versal PS I was hoping you would do some anime characters versus Marvel Comics and DC Comic characters one day
The way I understood the stare was if you killed evil it didn't work on you only if you have inflicted harm on good people is when it kicks in hence why it works so well against bad guys.
I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s that it’s his lack of regret that keeps Frank safe, but rather that those he causes pain to is usually in the name of Justice. The type of bloody cold justice one might see in the Old Testament lol
The Punisher can survive the Penance Stare because he has already experienced pain throughout his life. And when he decided to become the Punisher, he is mentally and emotionally ready to recieve the same pain he is dishing out. He felt the Penance Stare. All the pain. But he can take it. He's the bully's bully not because he is stronger. Because he is ready. He has embodied the old saying “He who seeks revenge digs two graves.” Thats why he says, "I reget nothing."
This isn’t how the Stare works.
The Stare inflicts all the pain and suffering you’ve caused back on you. How you personally feel about it makes no difference. The Stare dropped Galactus. A cosmic pillar of reality.
Haven't you heard? The writers don't care about continuity and retcon whatever they feel like nowadays
yet captain marvel was immune to it....which pissed everyone off
@@JC3178 Sad but true.
If we’re going to decide to not write this off as bad writing and play along, galactus HAS shown regret for his actions despite them being necessary for the function of the universe.
Yeah kinda bored of them writing in weird dumb reasons that people are immune to the penance stare at this point, really cheapens it. I mean Frank Castle, Deadpool, two who should be prime candidates? Is anybody not immune to it?
Maybe the best example of: "the winner is whoever the writers want to win"
And unfortunately they keep outsourcing the writing of these established characters to these hack writers from wish.
Yeah punisher is one of the worst characters for this tbh. There’s just so much plot armour on him. Sometimes writers can come up with cool creative ways for him to get out of situations against super humans unharmed, but most of the time they have to dumb down / weaken other heroes to give him even ground (see Garth ennis). Punisher would have been dead a thousand times over if not for plot armour.
Fantasy is my reality. The characters are real. They just live in a different dimension. Like in Heaven.
@@BigUriel You act like comic book writers havent been DEI shitbags for the past decade lmao. They literally ALL suck now.
Ah I see the punisher was wearing his Batman-grade plot armor that day.
its not plot armor when its canon....canon is permanent until its retconned...not plot armor but if you don't know the actual words for retcon...then yea, plot armor from the wrong comic book series.
@@ravinraven6913 What kind of logic is that? This is not how the penance state works!
Stare or no stare ghost rider should very easily embarrass Punisher
i mean can you really kill a guy with making him feel all the pain he's dished out when he just quoted the postal dude
@@Taxevader-gk9ms Yeah, you can because the penance stare doesn’t care about whether or not Frank is a psychopath who barely qualifies as a hero
By this logic, The Postal Dude can survive the penance stare.
That was exactly what I thought of when I saw the "I regret nothing"
How about a Mr. Not Important
why not. This is why you don't let other people steal your work, now they changed the canon because one writer likes Punisher and is tired of people calling him evil. He is evil, you don't just kill...look at the X men, they rarely killed, until new writers stole the topic and made them killers.
Demons are made to be evil, they don't feel bad and yet they are affected by the stare. Im so done with Marvel and DC. only comic shop worth reading is Dark Horse Comics. Fear Agent was great, but no one is gonna pick up his mantel. They let the story play out and end...they don't beat a...dead horse into the ground long after people started asking for no more...
First one not so much, since he had a breaking point, the demon wasn't in full control, the school was too far.
First time I heard that, we all burst out laughing. Good memories.
This isn’t how the penance stare even works. The writers of these comics have a fundamental misunderstanding of how GRs powers were originally written. There’s no reason that “lack of regret” should have anything to do with how the stare works. The entire point of the stare is to be a perfect weapon against entities who are irredeemably evil, all the stare actually requires is that you have a soul, and that you have inflicted pain or suffering on to another person.
I'm pretty sure it inflicted all the pain and suffering you've caused to the innocent or caused unjustly. I don't think the penance stare would cause, say a victim of sexual assault to feel the pain her attacker felt when she shot him in self defense. I could be wrong because I haven't read comics in like 30 years but I do remember it having something to do with the pain you caused to innocents.
@@noneofyourbiz982 yea, it's the pain you've caused to innocents
@@tiredfellow23 So Frank _should_ be immune to the stare, but the writer just screwed up on _why_ that's the case?
@@Lord_Numpty ehh.. I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt the punisher has never ever hurt someone innocent before. I can imagine he has hurt innocencecaught in the crossfire, or someone who frank thought was more evil then they actually were (such as a mistaken identity, or misinformation.) even if he has somehow avoided all of that, he has probably hurt the innocent by, I dunno, Killing a beloved relative or friend, or lover. (who happened to be one of frank's targets.)
@@TranshumanMarissa I mean, if we wanna argue it's about inflicting penance, then INTENT has to factor in. Frank Castle NEVER wanted to hurt innocents, and while some innocents DO get caught in the crossfire here and there, it's never by intention.
It doesn't matter if you regret what you've done or not. It's not called the regretful stare.
Spirit of Vengeance, not spirit of 'hey, don't be mean to those violent criminals'
Justice causes pain to the guilty, you think people should feel bad about that?
Name one thing that Punisher would consider more painful than continuing to live while everyone he's ever cared about is dead and the people out there who caused it are still doing such.
@artyd42 the physical pain of everyone he's ever killed, brutalized, or tortured magnified tenfold and returned to him. That would hurt a whole lot more. And remember, it's emotional pain too. How many families do you think he's destroyed? Do you think their wives and children loved them any less?
@@johnaeryns5364
It's a moral dilema then?
Do serial rapists or pedos have feelings? Could they be mentally ill individuals misunderstood by society? Then why does it anger you when you hear about their victims?
Justice is a human concept, not a natural one, It's difficult to apply a system that isn't even perfected yet
@rodrigocoockiemonster4460 OK, couple things. First, get off your high horse prickzilla, it's a comic book. Second, ghost rider is the spirit of vengeance. Justice has nothing to do with it.
Frank actually survived because Deadpool used an Angel Feather on him before he encountered Ghost Rider, since it counts as divine protection he was unaffected. The Penance Stare was used on Frank later to full affect. So no, he isn't immune because he doesn't regret what he does.
So Frank was lying about why the Penance Stare didn't work?
@@longWriter I think he just didn't know. Or maybe he just wanted to sound cool.
We'll he did sound cool, and i think if the punisher gets devine or hellish forged weapons, he could take some power houses, but with guns and bazookas, it's never gonna happen😂
@@JohnBonachon I heard people Deadass say Punisher with normal weapons is an Avengers Level Threat. They'd probably believe he could with or without magic.
@allforone3427 i love the punisher but we gotta be real perfect example : from dc my fav is batman but he cant beat sup's and dilusional ppl say he can ppl just take sups kindness and gullibleness
The Punisher does what he feels needs to be done. No regret in that. Not how the stare is supposed to work, but that's Marvel writers for you.
Well perhaps you can take it as the punisher not regretting his actions even reflected back to him.
As in despite going through all the pain he inflicted in his life, his drive for revenge gave him the strength to maintain his resolve.
@@cursedhfy3558Still, that's not how it works, every amount of pain you caused is reflected back to you, exactly how they felt it. It doesn't matter if you are insane, aphatic or even if you come to terms with it. You feel it like they felt it, there is no turn around about it.
But of course, classic marvel writters don't give a damn and can't even follow a bare standar of what a character is and should be able to do.
@@draconomega i will take classic marvel writers over the terrible woke writers now
@@draconomega Batman fans will tell you that pain is in the mind, so a disciplined mind can endure it no matter how extreme it is. Marvel fans will tell you that Batman is hardly the only character to have demonstrated that.
@@chaz9808 Oh yeah, at least clasic writters had fun with goofy stories.
A weapon that can even kill galactus? Sure, why not!
How does Thanos moves around? probably an helicopter!
Let's make a villain that's just a floating head with tiny arms! And we will call him Modok! he works for the N*zis 2: electric bogalo.
Now everything must be the new multi-series big event, everyone is serious, it's always life or death. "THE MULTIVERSE IS AT RISK FOR 10nt TIME! WHAT SHALL WE DOOoOoOOo?!" . This might sound insane, but I agree a bit with TT:Go is take on the subject. Don't like the show, I prefer the original teen titans any day, for ever, but the point about everything not needing to be serious is right. Specially when everythimg was not built to be serious in the first place, it was built to be *entertaining*
By that logic all the psychopathic killers are immune to penance stare then
psychopathic Killers can't ignore the pen and stare because the pain and stare isn't just about whether you feel okay about something or not. it's about the innocent people you have harmed keyword INNOCENT Frank goes after the guilty thus something that only targets individuals who have harmed the innocent wouldn't be able to touch him
@@robinjameson4261 Yeah that's not why Frank survived though. Deadpool used an Angel Feather on the Punisher before he encountered Ghost Rider, which made Frank immune. The Punisher later encountered Ghost Rider again and had it used on him, and it worked as intended. The Stare doesn't care if you've only hurt bad people, only that you've hurt people at all.
They can still feel pain, Frank for all intents and purposes cannot. The stare does no damage, it just provides the feelings. The comic even reminds you of how Frank responds to pain and injury before he resists the stare when he gets stabbed. He literally just assesses how much it'll affect his combat abilities and otherwise is completely unfazed by it and moves on. That's why something that only inflicts feelings doesn't work on him. A generic psychopath, barring them having specifically have a mental illness related to their pain response, would definitely feel it and react if stabbed in the ribs or faced the stare. Frank only expresses that he feels no regret, but the real reason the stare doesn't work is because he doesn't feel anything at all. Also, just because a character says something, doesn't mean it's the entire explanation or even the real explanation. They could just be pulling something out their ass in that moment to sound cool. It's a comic.
@@allforone3427 well that'll do it as well. I'm just saying in the general case since Frank only kills people who are guilty, the penance stare has no capacity to hurt him regardless of what Deadpool does.
@@robinjameson4261 It literally did hurt him though. After this Frank had encountered Ghost Rider again and had it used on him, to which it worked as intended. It doesn't matter that he only hurt bad people, he still felt all the pain he had inflicted on others.
The thing about the Punisher is, he isn’t evil. He’s apathetic. There is a reason why H.P. Lovecraft believed that to be worse. I have to agree with him.
Edit: Apparently people are keep missing my replies, but I’ve been emphasizing after the fact in the replies section that Frank might arguably be apathetic in some places, but isn’t wholly apathetic.
Oh i bet you do🤣
H.P Lovecrafts cat joins the conv9
@@stugglefuggle8673 Why?
@@tornadragon4047 Oh Christ
@@teleportedbreadfor3days Lovecraft had a complicated hystory racism but he was also mentally ill and traumatized by his mother to be fearful of the world and ashamed of himself.
His racism was a part of a greater fear of anything or anyone who was different or unknown.
The Punisher is an agent of vengeance. He literally becomes the Angel of Vengeance. Ghost Rider is a spirit of vengeance. His Penitent Stare is vengeance for the victims. Punisher may be immune because he works in the same sphere of influence, and none of his victims deserve vengeance, being victimizers deserving vengeance themselves.
I think you mean he none of his victims are *innocent*
that and his backstory is that of being a apathetic soldier. he is a character that isn't supposed to feel anything at all. what good is pain and suffering to one that doesn't feel it?
While this isnt a good reason for him being immune to the stare, it is a hood explanation on why ghost rider wouldnt even attack him in the first place.
excellent summation.
I can buy that.
Similar problem with the portrayal of Hell in the Netflix series Lucifer. In that series you don’t go to Hell based on your sins, you go there based on your guilt for them. By that logic wouldn’t Heaven just be full of sociopaths and psychopaths?
Consider the few characters that came from Heaven throughout the series and tell me that it wasn't.
Consider that Adam and Eve were banished for eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Essentially god supposedly wanted us incapable of telling the difference according to Christianity, sounds sociopathic don't it?
@@willchurch8376To be fair those were inhuman crearures.
@@jasdanvm3845 Eve? Abel?
@@willchurch8376 Eve was heaven. Abel was hell.
Plot Armor. It's extremely strong in this one.
The Penance Stare, or the original Hellfire that burns the soul, both punishes the internal person, regardless of their emotions. Hellfire was one of those things that punished based on the crime, and the intent as an additional factor. One story showed a bully who got burned, and it haunted him, turning him into a quieter man. A murderer, with no guilty conscience, was burned right to his soul, and did not come out of the shock. He was turned into a vegetable.
The Penance Stare was supposed to inflict the pain and suffering that a person inflicted on others, based in the Innocent blood they spilled, or Innocents they harmed. A better explanation is that Frank killed only a few innocents, witnesses to his crimes of murdering crime lords, murderers, pedos, and the like. He could endure the pain of a few innocents, as he did not plan out those murders, and faced guilt for it. The rest? No guilt at all, and they were not innocent.
Possibly the best explanation for it.
Actually better than i was using to justify it, because mine didn't make much sense anyway.
That said, this does kinda make it make more sense, because the punisher is usually all about killing bad guys, and leaving innocent people alone. If it's specifically supposed to do damage based on innocent death, then yeah, this basically would leave frank relatively immune.
oh, so willpower and yeah he don't lack in that department.
plot armor works for stories. If its the writers who are throwing out established canon for one reason or another...then plot has nothing to do with it....but if you're unable to come up with an actual reason....its what happens when the original creator has nothing to do with the current writers. Basically stealing and killing the thing we used to love and appreciate.
marvel is dead, im just wondering when you guys are gonna notice. At least it made it longer than DC
Penance Stare would not be as great of pain, as that of losing a Child. There is something about a Parent who loses a child, and they carry with them an unimaginable pain. This is no different with The Punisher.
Ghost Rider: Feel the unimaginable agony of those you have killed!
Frank: Good.
The only other person that I remember surviving the penance stare is Deadpool. I think the real reason behind this is that in order for the penance stare to work you have to have spilled innocent blood. The Punisher and Deadpool for all their flaws and the literal mountains of bodies they leave in their wake, have never killed innocent people. It’s like when Ghost Rider fought World War Hulk, he absolutely could have beaten the Hulk but only if he was threatening the innocent, which none of the illuminati were.
I agree. I think it only reflecting pain inflicted on the innocent is a better reason for certain characters to be immune than a lack of regret.
Deadpool has killed loads of innocent people and been indirectly responsible for loads more. Realistically the Punisher has too, not nearly as many, for sure, but still some.
In the 1990’s, Deathlok and Morbius both came through it relatively unscathed.
That version of Deathlok was a cyborg body with the brain of a pacifist scientist implanted in it, and the scientist’s sins were things like stealing a candy bar in elementary school and having arguments with his wife on occasion.
Morbius suffered from the Penance Stare, but told Ghost Rider something to extent of “you’ve shown me nothing that I didn’t already know”, because his own conscience ate away at him.
It may have helped that, in both cases, Ghost Rider was using the Penance Stare to determine if he was dealing with a good or evil person, as opposed to setting out to punish them.
thanos also surives the penance stare
deadpool used to be a bad guy...hes spilled innocent blood, so your concept is immediately disproved in your first two sentences, before you even finished talking, you disproved it yourself....how can people talk in oxymorons and not know they are contradicting themselves.
For those who are mad at the outcome, a quick reminder that Stan Lee himself didn't mess with powerscaling and said that after dozens of "who'd win this" and "who'd win that" questions, said that it's literally up to the writer.
Not trying to start a flame war here, just pointing out that this plot armor is literally a choice from the writer, as stupid or as deserved as it is.
This is even how penance stare works in the Nicolas Cage movies, in those it failed a couple of times.
@@GrimSwag Lack of a soul is a pretty good way to avoid being burned by the stare. IMO... this isn't because Frank is immune. He's already lost his soul and just hasn't noticed yet.
@@artyd42 Look up the original comic. Deadpool used a divine artifact on the punisher which gave him divine protection. That is why the penance stare does nothing. It has nothing to do with having a soul... Or even regret for that mater.
I would like to point out that *Frank* thinks it doesn't work because he regrets nothing, not that the Stare actually works that way. The reason it doesn't work, as another commenter pointed out, Frank kills those deserving vengeance, those who cause hurt. Because of this, the Stare has nothing to punish Frank with, as Frank is carrying out the same mission the Rider should be doing...
You could argue that it's not Castle's lack of regret, but the fact that his kills wind up doing more good than harm, which protects him from the bulk of the Stare. I think it should make him feel something, but not much compared to the pain and suffering that had been inflicted on Castle over the years. The Demon of Vengeance is a punisher, just the same as Frank is seen as both angel and demon; they are great foils for one another, and if there is anyone in canon that the Stare should not affect, it is the Punisher.
I do not believe the Punisher is without regret. If he did not have any regrets that would mean he does not regret failing to prevent the murder of his wife and children.
You don't get it.
Stare punishes with remorse over something you did. Over your sins. Not over something commited against you.
Which is stupid. The Penance stare should not be based on if the victim feels any remorse already.
@@user-xw5xo3bv1n There is no justice in murder and he has killed cops before too.
Didn't he accidentally kill some innocent people in comics?
@@danielmcphee2546 yeah, even cops too
These writers love to glaze the tf out of The Punisher.
these writers like to steal stuff that isn't their own and change it to a way that makes the previous generation of fans hate it...hoping a new generation will like it. Only for it to fail and then we get everyone wanting less or none.
Glizzies for days. 💀
Not as much as glazing Batman lol
That's because he's Marvel's Batman, essentially. Hell, they even had him stealing the gadgets of villains he took down and using that to up his effective power tier level.
As someone else said, the penance stare inflicts all the pain and suffering you've inflicted on the innocent, and despite the mountains of bodies Frank has left in his wake, they're all far from innocent. Frank saying it's because he regrets nothing is more than likely a calculated guess on his part, due to not truly knowing how the penance stare works.
I feel like a way around this could have been that;
1. The Punisher doesn't generally tend to inflict prolonged pain or suffering to his victims, he's ruthless and efficient, not a torturer. If it's just the 'pain' of putting some bullets through a braincase but not the actual 'damage', as a solider he's used to pain.
2. Perhaps during his travels to devise ways to defeat Ghost Rider, he came across a way to delay or dilute the effect of the stare. Enough to bluff Ghost Rider into believing that the stare wasn't working and stop performing it before the effects overrode whatever buffer The Punisher had implemented.
God I hate how so many modern writers of The Ghost Rider literally ruin the one aspect of how his Penance Stare is meant to work, It doesn't use the individuals point of view on their actions when inflicting the stare i.e Thanos or Punisher It is meant to JUST inflict all the physical and emotional pain onto the precipitant of the stare of all the people who they have hurt and the only way to invalidate it is in three ways
1. To be a cosmic power above The Ghost Rider
2. Not to have a soul
3. To be innocent - meaning not having sinned... Which the punisher has and willingly accepts that he will go to hell for his actions in a belief that it is for the greater good/vengeance
'im know it ain't Canon, but 'im think the "Penance Stare won't work on Frank because (the majority of) who he killed wasn't deserving of vengeance" angle fits. Other than Ju Ju from Doc, etc.
The reason is modern marvel writers can't cope with the idea of inherently evil acts. Everything is relative to them so they can justify any depravity.
@@MrARhodes The Penance Stare doesn't 'care' about what type of person you have hurt its only criteria in inflicting the victim of the stare is if one of your actions that has caused someone pain made you sin/something worthy to damn you to hell etc, its kinda hard to explain lol but its like the difference between accidentally hurting someone while playing football vs beating them with a crowbar - When inflicted by the power of the Stare you would only suffer from the crowbar analogy.
Now going back to Frank he would or should I say Should suffer the judgment of the Penance Stare Because of the How he has inflicted on those who have been put under his tender mercy's.
Now saying That Frank would be the perfect vessel for a spirit of vengeance particularly the original fallen angle of justice due to how they both operate.
Yeah so to summarize Frank would not be immune to the Penance Stare because he has sinned and the stare doesn't care who you have hurt is.
Also side note with some of the terrible ghost rider runs and how they make Frank or other characters immune like that but how does that work when you consider that they have Definitely sinned before they took up their superhero identity like with the Punisher and his military black opps stuff (that ended up killing innocents)
@lexi9956 Had the best and most logical response to this, quote:
'@lexi9956
This, in his back story (Born) he's got his own deal with Vengeance, a pact sealed back when he was fighting in Vietnam (or whatever they ret-coned it to now.) which is why he's the only person in his unit who survived the Tet offensive. This is further supported by the fact that Frank becomes the Ghost Rider in some continuities. In short, he's on the pay roll, he's working for Vengeance, even if he isn't quite fully aware of it. Now, whether this affected the outcome of the fight by Vengeance blocking the Penance Stare either because Vengeance withdrew his power from the Ghost Rider, or the Punisher just flat out shrugged it off is open for interpretation, but threatening Frank with pain isn't much of a threat, the closest thing he's got to a super power is an absurdly high pain tolerance. It really feels like this encounter is kind of what seals Frank's fate. It was a test and he passed, Vengeance has it's eye on him to eventually inherit the Ghost Rider's power. Face it, whatever else Frank is, he's a goddamn vengeance machine, it's literally the only thing he cares about. If you were Vengeance and two of your minions were in conflict, which one would you pick? The reluctant Johnny Blaze who doesn't really want the job, or the guy who is already doing it without any real powers at all and is completely dedicated to your cause? In someways, you could argue that Frank lost that fight, he has no soul left to torment.'
Also, in an alternate reallity even angels "hired" the Punisher to do some "punishing" by literally bring him back to life and into theys "pocket", so be it by pact with Vengeance in his origin story, being ressurrected by heaven to keep doing what he does, it seems that Frank got clearance to do what he does by a cosmic power AND he might not have a soul as well AND he doesn't hurt directly the innocent willingly, if you count indirectly then even Jesus could be guilty of this by becaming a religious figure and what his religion did, so yeah Frank checks the mark on these 3 ways, independently of what he thinks, believes and knows about himself.
The punisher is like Wolverine. He may not be a good guy, but if you’ve done nothing wrong he’s not messing with you. Ghostrider will show you how you’ve hurt your fellow man, The Punisher works to make everything equal.
Unless you're a hyper masochist like Thanos than the stare should have definitely worked.
Or purely nobel like cap and supes.
thanos didnt do what the was doing for power or greed he was doing it because he felt it needed to be done to save the universe from itself
Mcu thanos did what he thought needed to be done. Comic Thanos did what he did because he's in love with death and also an asshole. I'm willing to let him be immune for 'reasons' but Punisher and Deadpool being immune is dumb.
i believe that it didnt work on punisher because his “victims” had it coming they all were people the penance stare would have worked on thus punisher was ok killing them! as for deadpool… he so bat crap crazy he probably just shrugged it off haha
even then....the stare works on Galactus, the stare works for demons who were created to be evil and not feel bad...this writer stole something and changed it, f that guy, people should protest that fuqer.
The Penance Stare is sort of a Joke. Every Writer has there own way of depicting it. From Punisher to Captain Marvel
there? thats like a direction? how do you read comics and not know how to spell "their"? or even notice you didn't use the right there, their or they're?
@@ravinraven6913 *That's
You know its bad writing when even the Ghost Rider movie got the penance stare right. The only person who was immune was the main villian of the movie not because he had no regrets because he had no soul and it was only after absorbing a bunch of souls to gain more power is when the penance stare worked on him.
I think it would’ve made more sense if it was because Frank really only kills criminals so he is in a way also dishing out vengeance so the spirit can’t kill someone acting in line with itself
By that logic, every psychopath, sociopath, and mid-tier demon and higher would be immune to the Penitent Stare.
On the other hand, another more lore accurate way to explain The Punisher's Immunity:
He's already Punished Himself for every kill.
It's like Double Jeopardy: He Can't Be Punished For The Same Crimes Twice.
this is what happens when you give someone elses work to someone who doesn't appreciate the established canon. So sick of comics now, only seems Dark horse is worth reading. Fear Agent was great, but it shows why time travel gets boring, and fast.
I have two stages of Marvel "writing" I mostly ignore any bad writing post Spiderman Clone wars and there was alot of it and I disregard any writing post 2007 when the milkshake girls took over editorial control.
im at the point I am asking for no more. The longer they do comics, the more the new writers will change everything and the worse it gets. f these guys
The writers don't really sufficiently explain why the Stare doesn't work on Frank and him saying "I regret nothing." isn't the actual reason.
The real reason, that the writers don't get into, is the same reason the Stare doesn't work on the Hulk. It only affects people who have harmed _the innocent._ Frank has never harmed an innocent and neither has the Hulk.
GR even tells the Hulk something like, "If you ever harm an innocent, I'm coming back for you.".
If I remember correctly the penance stare actually inflicts all the pain and misery that you did on the INNOCENT, but since the punisher only kills criminals it does nothing to him.
That was my thought also.
This is so stupid. It's beyond ridiculous how much Marvel writers nerfed that shit. That's not how the penance stare works. Otherwise, it would be useless. How many villains and criminals don't feel any regret for their actions? Sociopaths are immune, too then! People who can't feel anything but did fucked up shit are immune, too! The victim's state of mind shouldn't matter when the stare's used on them, only the pain they've inflicted on others.
The reason I like Batman and Punisher is they hold no superpowers but are feared by all.
And are possible... to an extent.
As I recall, and this may have changed over the years, but the Penance Stare is meant to punish those who have harmed innocents and are guilty of such crimes.
If you’re innocent, Frank isn’t coming after you.
As a long time Ghost Rider reader let me explain this, the “no regret” nonsense was started by Jason Aaron in his Ghost Rider run in 2008-2009 which carried into Thunderbolts and Aaron’s Avengers run where Captain Marvel resisted the stare by simply being tired of feeling bad about all the awful things she’s done, this was just one of many things Aaron did to butcher the Ghost Rider mythos. Here’s the big one the Punisher is NOT immune to the penance stare and has been hit with it three times in canon Dan Ketch hit him with it in the 90s and it worked and after this Thunderbolts run Dan did it again causing Frank to drop to his knees and begin vomiting. The reason it didn’t work when Blaze did it was that Frank was mutilated by Mercy and through shenanigans Deadpool was able to heal/cleanse Frank with the feather of an angel which briefly made Frank immune to the stare
You may want to look back a bit further...
Prime example: Cletus Kasady
@@OniNoFro Cletus never fought Danny until Absolute Carnage a few years ago and he counts as insane like with Madcap plus he’s got the bonus of having a symbiote and the stare never worked on symbiotes (the damnation stare does but with recoil) I’m talking about the nonsense Aaron came up with where people could resist the stare simply by feeling justified in their actions or in Carol’s case just being tired of feeling bad (it was obviously MCU synergy in that case due to that issue dropping couple days before the Captain Marvel movie hit theaters stateside and they were pushing the “strongest avenger” nonsense in the movies promotions)
I hate how Marvel can be all "nuh uh, my character can survive your character because hes epic".
Before I read this I had heard about this alot and I thought it was going to play out like:
Ghost Rider: 😡
Punisher: "I never killed anyone who didn't deserve it."
Ghost Rider: "...well you're literally not lying at all. My bad, goodnight." 🏍️
He has though. He might not know who he killed that was innocent, but he has.
@@sporf_sporf Who?
Tbh, the punisher kills those who are deserving, much like ghost ride
The key difference is that punisher WONT go after the innocent, thus he'll allow what comes next if he does do harm to someone whose innocent
So it *could* be a cop out, but then again it seems this punisher is clean
The stare burns the pain you caused our of malice or indifference to mankind.
That is why this is dumb but it makes sense when someone like superman or captain america are immune.
So Ghost Rider's biggest weakness is technically PURE, UNAPOLOGETIC, EVIL?
Well considering that Vengeance was an angel that got totured and mutilated by Mephisto until it became Vengeance, it would make so much sense that Ghost Rider's biggest weakness would be PURE, UNAPOLOGETIC, EVIL, so that the wish-washy eveil doers would be washed away in holy/unholy fire
@@luizhenriquealves9755 So he filters out the wishy-washies to reveal the true evil for the rest of Marvel to fight.
@@Mastermind8908 Hardly the stupidiest thing he ever done
I think it would have been better to express this the opposite way around, that Punisher's constant physical and emotional pain is so massive that the penance stare is just a drop in the bucket. Sort of an MCU Hulk "I'm always angry" deal.
This is some great art.
Ghostrider be all like "Dude... like... time out here are you ok man? I've seen a lot of messed up stuff cause ya know... hell an whatever... but your reaction here man is the most messed up thing I've ever seen. You need a therapist. "
its not even accurate...Galactus has felt bad about some stuff but when ghost rider used the stare, it wasn't for the stuff he felt bad about, and yet he was still affected. Ghost rider can destroy demons whose "soul" perpose for being is to kill and torture people, why would they feel bad? They are affected by the stare...this guy should be fired.
I love the Punisher. He's the poster-boy for comic book anti-heroes and it's totally deserved.
IIRC, it was later reconned that Punisher had an angel feather or something like that in his back pocket and that's what saved him, not his lack of regret.
Punisher soul is not stained by the blood of the innocent he never harms the innocent
I always figured, Frank can survive the Penance Stare because, despite how many he’s killed, he’s never killed anyone that didn’t deserve it. He does things in such a way that basically he’s a sort of punishment on Evil in his own right, so a punishment towards evil would not work on him.
I doubt they've shown it in any comics, but it's implied he's killed a few who don't exactly deserve it. He does a lot of guilt by association. You're with the mobster you must be just as bad, or you're a junkie? then you must be bad, even if you've not commite4d crimes beyond being a junkie trying to get clean. Nor does Frank believe in redemption.
The punisher never kills the innocent willingly and believes he's an agent of vengeance just like the ghost rider, he feels the weight of every life he takes and is happily walking to hell
Stan Lee explained it the best way possible. If the writers want a character to win, they will win. That's it.
I thought the stare made you feel all the pain and suffer you inflicted on innocence
Lol
Punishers way of dealing with deadpool is exactly like mine.
Glad to see it works!
The again the Punisher isn’t even killing human beings. He is killing criminals that commit worse crimes than nearly any marvel villain.
I do like the reality that the Punisher is just that pure of an archetype and will have absolute resistance to guilt, empathy, or doubt based attacks.
Punisher punishes evil of all forms, Penance Stare punishes those that commit evil. Frank never killed or harmed anyone he sees as innocent.
But then again, Frank did kill some villains minding their own business who are just down on their luck. That comics I guess.
I feel like having the willpower to endure the suffering you've inflicted, and a moral core strong enough to experience that pain yourself and come out unchanged on the other side isn't exactly the same thing as negging the penance stare, but it's pretty close. The "I regret nothing" line is kinda just Punisher being an edgy badass cuz he's The Punisher lol
Playground logic from the writer. "Nuh uh that doesn't work!" "No. It does." "No, because uh because my guy doesn't care so hard it doesn't work and he lives and - "
I like to imagine that Punisher does have some kind of magic factor similar to how Lobo is banished from death. You know, defying the laws of the physical universe just by being angry enough
God gave frank castle the power of the void that day.
That art is dire.
the punisher survived the stare by harnessing the energy of the postal dude
The stare works on everyone until the writers decide it doesn't.
But I remember way back in the 1900s the Ghostrider spirit approved of the Punisher's actions. It gave him the head nod.
That Punisher looks exactly like Billy Butcher.
Other way around
The Punisher could resist the penance stare but he couldn't resist a kiss from Johnny Blaze after being freed from the ghost rider curse😂
It makes perfect sense.
The stare forces the recipient to experience all the pain and suffering they’ve inflicted on others.
So?
Punisher has already suffered immense trauma and pain, both physical and psychological.
It’s like splashing warm water on someone standing in the pouring rain.
Punisher won that one fair and square, folks.
My headcanon on why the penance stare doesn't work on the punisher is because the punisher deals unto the criminals the very pain he feels for every second he doesn't deal with them and channels that into his punishments. He felt it all before and feeling it all again is nothing to him.
Penance Stare doesn't require guilt. God sheltered Frank from its power, made him immune to it. That's all. Frank is Marvel's Archangel of Punishment, he trumps Ghost Rider. Cosmic Punisher Ghost Rider trumps all.
I think that at this point, the Punisher's plot armour rivals that of Batman and Harley Quinn.
This description of the Penance Stare has the same inherent flaw as Lucifer's version of Hell in the TV show (not sure if it's the same in the comics.) It would basically leave the most monstrous and deserving psychopaths and sociopaths immune to Hell. Ridiculous.
I always thought it was less a 'no regret' thing and more of 'my own pain is more than you could possibly inflict on me'
Literally every sociopath is immune to regret😂
Castle: No, Fluttershy, stop staring at me... FRIENDSHIP IS MAGIC! Spare me!
This is just another example of Marvel hiring writers based on criterias other than capacity and competency.
punisher really wants red hulks heat lmfao
Even Thanos couldnt escape the Penance Stare. He just enjoyed the pain of it.
I like to imagine that the Punisher felt every bit of it and shrugged it off because he knew those people deserved it, so him feeling it just means that until that point he did his job right.
yes but one fact people forget is.
The comics hint that "HEAVENS" support the Punisher, you have a comic where Franks was almost dead, his body was all broken, but a Angels's feather touch his body and fully heal him, but the feather was useless to anyone else, that create the theory that Angels and Heaven itself support Frank's crusader, that he is doing the good work. That is also in line with God/Heaven in Marvel because the Ghost Riders are created by God to do basically the same job that The punisher does, protect the innocent punish the evil ones.
the penance stare, the most misunderstood attack in all of comic books
Punisher is and will always be my absolute favotire! My Stinger is a Punisher Edition haha
there are several people immune to the pennance stare. Deadpool, Thanos, etc. and they all seem to have this in common.
He did it because he liked it. Hell, he loved it..
Think its less that he has no regrets and moreso that he's fully convinced his actions are always justified...
But i guess that would also still fall within your argument.
But then again marvel lore has always bowed down to the current writer of the IP to fit thier story best.
A hero's powers are whatever a writer needs them to be.
man I remember this, I had a friend who was so f'ing livid about it lmao
There is precedent for this in the Ghost Rider's solo series. He goes up against a prisoner named the Deacon. He uses the penance star on the Deacon. The Deacon says "It tickles. Your penance stare doesn't work on me. Because I am not bothered by anything that I have done."
Punisher is immune to the penance stare because he has killed no one innocent
"The Penance Stare isnt affected by guilt"
Example #101 of the Penance Stare doing nothing against people who dont care.
The regret issue does make sense, when you consider how little of the punisher's humanity remains under the mortal embodiment of vengeance he became. The physical pain means nothing in face of his self-perceived duty.
One cannot drive mad he who is already insane.
You could argue that the Punisher is more like a machine than a man, single-mindedly driven toward his crusade. Nothing will stop him, not even death. He’s like a more murderous, more driven Batman.
I've been wanting to ask are you planning on making videos on Marvel comic in DC Comic characters who are outer versal PS I was hoping you would do some anime characters versus Marvel Comics and DC Comic characters one day
The way I understood the stare was if you killed evil it didn't work on you only if you have inflicted harm on good people is when it kicks in hence why it works so well against bad guys.
The Penace Stare was always more of a plot device rather than actual power.
unless the Punisher's origins have changes, he was born of regret anyway.
I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s that it’s his lack of regret that keeps Frank safe, but rather that those he causes pain to is usually in the name of Justice. The type of bloody cold justice one might see in the Old Testament lol
Bro thats just foreshadowing for the cosmic ghost rider
The Punisher is unaffected, Thanos enjoys it.
I clicked on this video wondering how on earth does The Punisher manage to survive the pancake stare.
The Punisher can survive the Penance Stare because he has already experienced pain throughout his life. And when he decided to become the Punisher, he is mentally and emotionally ready to recieve the same pain he is dishing out.
He felt the Penance Stare. All the pain. But he can take it. He's the bully's bully not because he is stronger. Because he is ready. He has embodied the old saying “He who seeks revenge digs two graves.”
Thats why he says, "I reget nothing."
I already know this story. I just love rehearing about it.
Imagine this story being made into a Thunderbolts movie or series