I had a feeling they would not penetrate as much as ball ammo but still feed like ball ammo and not underpenetrate like some hollowpoints. I need to get myself a box or two now.
I use to carry Federal Hydra Shock in my LCP MAX in the summer…..In the winter I default to Winchester white box 95 grain flat nose target ammo…..I have had no failures of any kind with any ammo through my LCP MAX…….Great video! Thanks!👍
Most of the time I carry a Ruger LCP MAX loaded with Buffalo Bore standard pressure 100gr FNHC rounds. Has great penetration but no expansion. Choices are great!
I carry a Kahr P380 as my second gun...have qualified two years in a row with perfect 60/60 rounds on target for my NH LEOSA qualification that goes from 3-25 yards. I carry the Underwood Xtreme Defender rounds...and carry them also in a Kahr PM9, G19 and Colt Commander .38 Super...no expansion necessary...
Interesting watching the HST. Not only lack of expansion but feeding issues as well. Eye opening! A jammed gun is not good on the two-way range! Makes me love my snubs all the more.
Yeah, snubs are the best for any gun that can fit in a pocket. Long slide autos VS duty size revolvers are more of a debate, as autos kind of "win", but pocket autos, ehh, 6+1 of maybe a jam VS 6 of 100% reliability is a huge difference.
“A jammed gun is not good on the two-way range!” That got a chuckle out of me and I must say wiser words have never been spoken. I’ve always been a revolver guy but I have had some autos that have been 100% reliable; Springfield GI 45 ACP, Sig 45 ACP, Star PD 45 ACP, Davis P-32, Tanfoglio/Excam 25 ACP (my current EDC), and a S&W 9mm. Others jammed just enough that I got rid of them- Sterling 22LR, Iver Johnson 380, Raven 25, and a late-80’s era Springfield 45 ACP. I can say tho that I’ve never gotten rid of a revolver for reliability issues. I think sometimes with autos it’s the luck of the draw if you get a good one, especially with the small ones.
I’ve carried Federal Premium Hydra Shock HP for years. My concern w/ball ammo is over penetration/collateral damage. The Federal has been 100% reliable in my LCP
I think I have tested that years ago in water jugs. If I recall it functioned very well. I may have to try it again. Hydrashok is still a great round in certain cartridges, I know the .327 Federal is one of them.
Most of my .380s are loaded with Federal Hydra-Shocks, too. My old agency used to issue it for our BUG/OD pistols and I was gifted several boxes before I retired. I liked what it did when we shot cars on our range. And when I shot mounted, pressurized radial tires, it did like a cookie-cutter, removing a chunk of rubber and flattening the tire in short order wheras the rubber would almost "heal" from an FMJ round and take much longer to flatten. Now, people aren't tires, but still ... I'm old-school, too and have stuck mostly with that round through the years.
@@GunSam Sam, my son and I went to the range last night and test that .327 Federal American Eagle 100 grain JSP I mentioned in your last video. Interesting results as we compared it for recoil against my .357 Golden Saber 125 grain BJHP, and frankly we both felt the .327 round was at least as hard recoiling as the .357, both through 4" barrels of equal weight. Definitely a hot load. Just FYI. BTW I like your T shirt. I grew up in Michigan and have gone to many games in the Big House. Thanks for the video
The IRT is target ammo, period. It's the only ammo that jams in my Ruger Max. I love the Federal HST, Hydro Shok, Critical Defense, and Precision One as self-defense ammo.
I currently have Underwood Extreme Defender ammo in my LCP Max. I believe it's the best ammo for this pistol. I've also shot about 200 rounds of HST thru it and it never jammed. It never jammed with anything yet and I've tried 6 or 7 different types thru and around 900 rounds all together.
Underwood is a great choice The LCP max has a redesigned feeding ramp that works best with HP self defense ammo. ruclips.net/user/shortsyHsMbBCU25A?feature=share
I will also say hot 380 ACP causes reliability problems in my LCP. When you consider the Kel Tec it is based on, the weak magazine spring strength and zero slide runup the design has, it is not a wonder hot ammo causes problem. The next round has little time to rise before the slide goes forward and hot ammo greatly increases the chance the slide outruns the magazine. Adding a stronger spring did not help because it attenuates rearward velocity very little but increases slide return speed. No bueno. Will take reliability and lower power over increasing the odds of a malfunction any day.
Just recently found this channel and was really enjoying seeing some interesting .380 tests, so I was excited to see this pop up! Thank you for the great information!
FMJ wound channel volume: 2.2 cubic inches. Federal Indoor Training: 1.44 inches. Federal HST (Not fully expanded, estimated at .45 total diameter): 2.43 I'd really like to see Underwood 90 Grain XTP +P out of the LCP, as well as Federal Hydra-Shok Deep.
@@GunSam Ha, yup. But really though, you just run the formula for finding the volume of a cylinder, take penetration depth and average diameter to get your number.
XTP seem to be the defacto best choice in 380. It expands to about .45 cal and penetrates 12+" most of the time. The only JHP that will normally do that in 380.
Hornady Critical Defense .380 expands and feeds consistently in the LCP without the excessive pressure. Winchester white box JHP is nearly as good but at a lower price.
The LCP's benefit greatly from polishing the feed ramp with a Dremel, cotton cone shaped insert and some polishing compound. They are also reportedly more reliable with the magazines marked "made it Italy". Yet the USA made mags are just as reliable once you do a ramp polishing on the throat of the barrel. No more hang-ups after that.
Still have not seen any 380 pocket gun test to make me change over from my Lehigh Extreme Penetrator ammo. My LCP Custom seems to feed them fine. No jams or misfeeds so far. Each gun needs to be tested for each ammo though. Just because it is the same model, does not mean it will work the same. Thanks for the video.
Taking awhile lol. I used to be getting like 1,200 per 28 days, now I am at only 600. I always see people go from like 10,000 to 100,000, being below me then way over me like it's nothing. It's hard work being the guy that does legit work, not just shooting things into fireballs, mag dumping and all of that. Nothing wrong with all that, but a lot of people just don't like real world stuff. Then they come to my channel fresh off one of those other guys yelling that 6 rounds aren't enough lol
I've never had good feeding reliability with the HST. It is by far the most powerful 380 ACP I have. If I was still carrying a 380, I would not be carrying the HST unless I was carrying something larger than that LCP that would feed it properly. The flat meplat on that indoor target range ammo should actually cause more damage than a round nose bullet. I keep hearing that handgun bullets do their damage by crushing tissue. A round nose is an efficient shape to push through with little resistance and therefore less damage. The largest meplat you can get to feed reliably should do more crushing damage. Also, 168fpe is not at all bad for a bullet that doesn't have to use some energy to expand. I would say that the Federal IRT is not the worst choice you can make for a carry load. Remember how simple wadcutters perform out of a revolver. I'm less confident about the LCP though! In all cases, I would say that underestimating the effectiveness of 380 ACP is not something anyone on the receiving end should do. It is way more powerful than 32 ACP and certainly more powerful than 22LR. I think the bad rap is coming from the super short barrels. 380 ACP is basically a scaled down 45 ACP and still wants a 3-4 inch barrel to work properly. From the shooter's perspective, reducing the size of the pistol too much just makes the round harder to shoot and reduces the reliability of the whole thing.
@@MrAvidOutdoorsman ROFL! I haven't actually looked at the cartridge specs lately, but I definitely recall that what Browning did was shrink all the dimensions on the 45 ACP to get the 380 ACP. He even went to small pistol primers! LOL
One thing I have noticed looking back, is that for me stuff like 56 gr ARX, 70 gr ammo and even 85 seem to not jam much, getting into 95 gr it starts to. I have also noticed that 140 to 160 FPE I get almost no jams, over 160 FPE it jams. I have a unique problem though, all my pistols seem to be smaller than yours, so sometimes a "limp wrist" occurs inside my palms even though I grip it tight.
I did buy some and like the way they work in my LCP Max. Thanks for the tip on new ammo for my pocket gun. The LCP Max is also my pajama gun as I stay armed even at home in my pajamas.
It's a shame 380 ammo can be so expensive. I live in Florida where people do not wear several layers of clothing most of the year. Anyone who does really stands out. People would wonder why you're wearing a jacket or other winter type clothing in 70 80 and 90 degree weather. 380 would is a viable choice for self defense here, especially since many of the pistols are so small they fit in a pocket. Oh well, I still have my 32, 32 H&R mag and 38 rounds to rely on out of my snubby revolvers.
good vid! I have that same pistol! and all ways wonderd what would be the best choice's in ammo.Ive tried alot of differnt types and just settled on Federal American Eagle FMJ.
I carry that identical LCP Ruger running the 95 grain bullnose I'm in my sixties now my hands are crippled up don't work so well done a trigger job on it from Chris with M carbo here on RUclips and have absolutely no complaints
I used to recommend xtp for slight expansion or htp which occasionally tumbles but Winchester JHP or Flat Nose is maybe just as good...meaning nothings is great in .380 shorter barrels. Sold my LCP that was always backup and replaced it
From lucky gunner's test with .380 you can see that there are some good penetrating and expanding hollow point rounds! The best was Hornady 90 gr FTX Critical Defense. You also already had some good test with penetration and expension in .380 but I cant remember the type.
FTX and XTP by Hornady are the top choice. Not for their ballistic performance totally. But, also because the very narrow profile of the bullet is reliable at feeding. Tried and true hollow point bullet design.
@@Followme556Did you tried it? This is speer but show that. 380 is much better then many gel test let you think. ruclips.net/video/8NfS9owxPiU/видео.html
My hands are too large for .380acp. I'm no whimp in forearm strength either. I guess probably the smallest pistol I'd ever attempt to carry (non-revolver anyway) would be a P365XL. But I prefer big holes so I'm one of those weird 45acp guys.
Love my Colt Officers model 45 and carried it for years ...except in summer with shorts and Tank tops, when I left it at home more often than not. LCP goes nicely in the pocket at those times of the year.
For .380 Xtreme Penetrator or Xtreme Defender are the best choices in my opinion. .380 hollowpoints either penetrate well or expand well but very rarely do both well.
I agree with your results,my LCP,the first generation , don't like hollow points.i just put a good defense round in the chamber and then my newest fmjs in the mag .I don't carry it much but for deep conceal it very good
After watching this video I bought two boxes of the Federal IRT ammo a few weeks ago and was surprised to see that they are now brass-cased instead of nickel. Haven’t shot any yet, but am interested to see if they’ll be as reliable in my new LCP as the nickel-cased ones were in your gun. I normally carry a .25 ACP for EDC but my brother gave me a new LCP for Christmas so I’m now doing the required ammo tests to see what functions best in it for EDC. I’m down to this IRT round v. the Fiocchi 90gr standard JHP that has done well in meat & bone tests. As you’ve demonstrated, reliability is key with these little pocket pistols. Thanks for another great, informative video! 👍
I’ve had great results as far as feeding and accuracy with Hornady American Gunner in my LCP. Shoots to point of aim and has never failed to feed or extract.
I have an lcp .it doesn't like hollow point and I don't trust it with flat point ether.so I put a hollow point in the chamber and fill the mag with round nose fmj and I put a hogue grip on it.i also have a 10 round back up magazine.itsba. Great little gun for deep conceal.
Another test, have watched many-cannot remember, but I liked the 2 x 4 test, 4-6 one foot pieces of 2 x 4 and see how many each bullet will go through.
I plan to buy some of the Federal and try it in my LCP and other 380 pistols. Less recoil is great since I have nerve damage in my hands so shot-to-shot control can be an issue.
In most of the tests I have seen it seems something loaded with an xtp bullet usually performs the best in the pocket .380s. I know I have seen some other tests with some newer stuff think there is a Hydrashok Deep for the micro pistols now think there is a micro pistol HST too think that is 2 I have seen perform pretty good too but for the most part the more premium stuff seems to expand really nice but only get 8-9 inches of penetration and the xtp isn't as pretty or get as much expansion but still gets 12 inches or so penetration. So many companies loading the bullet too and its generally a bit cheaper than buying the more premium stuff.
I have watched a multitude of small .380 tests I don't think there is a hollow point that can be totally relied upon. You almost have to go to a gun with a longer barrel then you have left the small .380 world. I think Winchester white box flatness 95 grain is probably the best bet. The problem with exotics copper composits Phillips head type bullets is you never know where a situation is going to wind up. Exotics can be used qginst you in court. Thanks for the presentation I enjoy them all.
I find Remington 88 gr JHP to be the better round for carry. It never expands, and part of that because it is nearly identical in shape to a .380 ball round. That being said, with no expansion it still does a lot of damage and penetrates less than a ball round. Even the Goats at Strasbourg test featured that round, and though I don't have the information pulled up, the Rem 88 gr JHP had an average incapacitation time at like 10 seconds, maybe it was 13 or 14 I don't recall. The control round (95 gr FMJ) was averaging like 30 seconds which proves the effectiveness of a non expanded HP as better than a ball round. SO for me it's that Remington 88 gr JHP, comes in both the Remington HTP and the Remington UMC.
Great video as usual. However I like sticking with the HST’s. While it’s known that the .380 HST doesn’t expand for squat when passing first through heavy clothing, it doesn’t bother me. The round almost always does NOT over penetrate in gel testing. The energy from the bullet gets dumped into the body (Target). Sometimes the bullet does indeed expand, whereas the FMJ never expands. I’d rather carry the “sometimes” bullet in that case.
I may or may not test more ammo in my LCP, haven't in some time because of how so many people lose their mind when it jams with a random hollow point, and because they never had that experience with FMJ ammo, they troll me that it's me. But what I was going to say, is that with my Shield EZ, the best ammo I have ever seen in .380 ACP is Federal Hydrashok Deep, outperformed the HST in the Shield EZ. If I were to do some more LCP testing I think that round would do very well.
@@GunSam Yeah, just ignore the trolls. Most of them have been actually “owning” a firearm for about a hot cup of coffee! Some of those trolls just drove up and haven’t even lit it in “park” yet, but they’re suddenly experts in the field of guns and ammo. Keep up your excellent work!
Yeah, lol. Had three people in one day basically tell me that wrapping my thumbs was poor form, and I needed to go thumbs forward. Two of the people who commented this, commented it on my revolver only videos.......
i have the 70 gr IRT 380, also 9 mm and 40 version of IRT so tests on them i hope i find, i dont have the 45 version yet but will buy at least a box of them soon
Sam my carry is a Ruger LCP Max so I made some spicy 90gr sig v crown, 90gr xtp, 65gr Lehigh defence extreme defender using 3.4 gr titegroup. Chrono mid 1100 fps.. got really good expansion/damage using your meat test.. I have no gel sadly and the location I used to test is no longer available. It would be really cool to see you make some of these up and test them like you did these. I know we have a lot of reloaders on this channel, let's have a reloading special!
Looking good brother, would you test hornady american gunner 90gr xtp if you can find some? I was getting 4 water jugs out my lcp with reliable expansion. Would like to see your thoughts.
It looks like they use the same 70 gr bullet for their 9x19mm ammo at an insane published velocity of 1625 fps, putting it pretty darn close to 7.62x25mm, at least on paper and in a perfect world. I'm thinking very shallow penetration for that one. But I do like the .380 performance! Ammo isn't all that expensive, either. They seem to also load a 100 gr .38 special round, too. Hmm ...
Ok a 99gr hollowpoint and a 90 gr round nose FMJ, vs the 70 gr flat nose of unknown bullet construction. Unless that 70 gr flat nose is almost half hollow on the backside I would bet anything its a copper poly matrix like the ARX , The roundnose penetration of 20 3/4" and 22 1/2" is over the FBI protocol unfortunately but maybe that's what some people want. (A clear pass thru.) Brass or Nickel plated cases expand the same when fired. Nickel plated cases, have a lower coefficient of friction making them easy to extract. They also keep your brass from tarnishing and can be easier to spot when doing a press check to make sure the chamber is empty. Unfortunately Federal and Hornady are not producing any new Nickel plated cases, until the Chinese "supply chain crisis" is over someday. (We cant seem to get any raw materials from China) So expect that to go on until we get new leadership (if we can get better leaders in DC.) This cartridge turned out to be less recoil, decent penetration, and if its a copper/ poly matrix, its is frangible! So you can walk up fairly close to a steel target angle shooting it, as the projectile just explodes into thousands of tiny particles. (wearing protective glasses and gloves) If its some other kind of lead free projectile, then beware that could be dangerous or deadly (if its zinc or some other metal.) Federal American Eagle 70 gr 380 acp lead free. green box. I'm gonna check it out for a practice round if its cheap enough..
i shot the IRT 70 gr before, was more expensive to shoot but i noticed i am faster and more accurate with those light rounds in my Ruger Lcp, for me i choose speed and accuracy first in considering a defense load but seeing at least penetration is good for these rounds its nice to know mighty mouse could get the job done, the hand on gun jacket carry method is mine also, as i walk and say i feel a threat is comming i will walk with hand on gun, both hands in pocket, Bob Stasch of Chicago PD ( 14 + real gun fights) has this method also when he approached in traffic stops or homes where he knew something could get out of control and dangerous fast, the reason why he started with small semi auto or small J frame revolver is because any time you have your duty weapon out you had to fill out a report and if it was out every day with no reason wich they thought (safety was no reason to have gun out of holster) the department would make a big deal about it, the politics got in the way so bob decided he would reach in his jacket with hand on small semi auto or J frame revolver while approaching a car so he could respond quickly, if no one seen the gun you wouldnt have to fill out info on why you had the gun out, what this shows is bobs main carry often was a small semi auto or J frame revolver and his sig 45 would be almost like a back up, so be it strange sometimes your back up is your main carry and your main carry is your back up, car window abushes and front door ambushes on police happened very quickly not giving them time to draw so the hand on gun in jacket pocket was a little insurance that if something went down fast you get the first shot, bob had a saying at the end of the day "i am going home" i will use any advantage i can to win in the streets, so its hows that a small gun can get you defending yourself quicker in some situations but you always have your other gun to, duty size or small you can start with either depending on the situation. thats why small revolvers and double action only small pistols are nice to have, no accidental discharge being it doesnt have a light trigger wich means you can carry it any way you want on you even in a jacket pocket and even shoot through it making you faster the your threat. bob carried a 45 but he said what ever gun you shoot the best with as far as accuracy and speed he said was ok, especially the one your confident with wich means the caliber debate is not a big deal but your ability to use that gun fast and accurate
I would never carry any type of frangible/matrix ammo for self defense. There is a real possibility of the ammo disintegrating. Ive seen it happen on range and its will sideline a gun until all the crap is cleaned out. Not saying its super common, but does happen and is going to be more likely in a carry gun thats banging around, plus they are not robust enough for a round that will most likely be chambered multiple times in a carry gun. I guess you could load the first 1 or 2 as something else to avoid the rechambering issues, but then Whats the point as most defensive encounters are 3 shots fired.
I have had some of the Inceptor defensive ammo fragment when shooting and make 3 holes on paper, but nothing that made the gun stop working. It was a revolver though, if there's an issue it's probably with feeding.
I will probably never use a 380 for serious purposes, but it is good to know this info. I will say that a medium size 380, specifically a Beretta 84, makes a great training gun. Accurate and modest recoil.
I wonder if the IRT ammo has lead and mercury free primers. A lot (most) lead exposure that people get when it comes to shooting comes from the primers and not the bullets. I could be wrong about that, but have heard it from reliable sources. I guess bullets don't shed lead in a way that's either breathed in or absorbed through skin... but the primers can contain lead styphnate and mercury fulminate which are micronized and spread through the air in breathable particles that are also small enough to be absorbed through skin. I don't know if it's true, but I heard from 2 respected instructors on youotube that believe they got their lead poisoning/toxicity from carrying an unclean gun that had fowling up against their skin on a regular basis.
My LCP is on its way back from its second repair at the factory. Hoping they replaced the gun. Pretty concerned about reliability right now. Lots of failures of various kinds with fmj. Need this gun to be reliable or ive got to sell it.
The best .380 hollow points are cheap designs that are tried and true for reliable feeding. XTP standard pressure and WWB. I've also had good luck with Remington UMC hollow points. Lol none of them expand, but they all have narrow cavities so they feed good. You don't really need an expanding projectile with .380 lol.
@@Followme556 The point is that it doesn't matter if you have a non-expanding projectile in .380. It's all about the same. Like magnum buckshot and regular buckshot.
@@macriggland6526 FBM and I both carry expanding 380+P XTP JHP's in our LCP Max pistols. So does our nephew (He has an LCP1). The only reason to carry a non expanding +P is for deeper penetration, I agree with you on that.
The 12-18 inches standard is completely arbitrary based on one shootout. In the Miami Dade shootout, the perpetrator was shot in the arm, went into his chest, and stopped 1 inch short of the heart. Based on that the FBI required a minimum of 12 inches. If you shoot someone from the side and hit his arm then yes. But most delf defense shootings occur between 0-20 feet and chances are rare of a sideways shooting. The facts are you only need to penetrate 5-6 inches to hit a vital organ. The FBI standard has been used by ammo makers as a marketing gimmick.
Not impressive at all. Very shallow penetration. You won’t find one single SWAT team carrying that junk, which is the Glaser Safety Slug of the modern era. Boutique junk ammo.
@@theaccount628 I believe every bullet design has a purpose. If a person is concerned about over penetration they are perfect. They cause so many wound channels that are deep enough to be lethal without blowing through the intended target and possibly killing a bystander. SWAT uses frangible rounds in some cases, those cause way less of a wound than the RIP round
Missiouri Bullet Company makes a 380 " For Secret Agent Use " that shoots 1" group's at 1,000 yards. It cannot ever miss. It is (1) shot = (1) Kill 100% of the time. ( goes on and on )
What are YOU talking about? You have obviously never handled it. So let me get this straight, based on your assumption....or misinformation, if the FBI sets a standard of no more than 18" in gel as that could create overpenetration, this is what? Like a person that is 36" thick? okay bud. lol, had my laugh of the day.
![Chino Pacas - Modo Capone (with Drake & Fuerza Regida) [Video Oficial]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zjv8TQ0gBkg/mqdefault.jpg)
I had a feeling they would not penetrate as much as ball ammo but still feed like ball ammo and not underpenetrate like some hollowpoints. I need to get myself a box or two now.
Thanks again. It was the first time in awhile that I got excited to see the results, such a simple concept but good results.
@@Valorius .380 + P has to be one of the most gimmicky rounds out there.
Winchester Silver Tips expand @900+fps
@@GunSam
Thanks for the great content as always, I wonder how the Fort Scott tumbling bullet would preform in that 380 with the short barrel?
@@Valorius Beautiful expansion through denim. ruclips.net/video/Pk4cgOjJfvY/видео.html
I use to carry Federal Hydra Shock in my LCP MAX in the summer…..In the winter I default to Winchester white box 95 grain flat nose target ammo…..I have had no failures of any kind with any ammo through my LCP MAX…….Great video! Thanks!👍
Extreme Defender smokes them all in 380,just smokes em.
Most of the time I carry a Ruger LCP MAX loaded with Buffalo Bore standard pressure 100gr FNHC rounds. Has great penetration but no expansion. Choices are great!
Gotta love it when the RUclips Closed Captioning says [Applause] at the beginning of your intro music. LOL
I carry a Kahr P380 as my second gun...have qualified two years in a row with perfect 60/60 rounds on target for my NH LEOSA qualification that goes from 3-25 yards. I carry the Underwood Xtreme Defender rounds...and carry them also in a Kahr PM9, G19 and Colt Commander .38 Super...no expansion necessary...
Interesting watching the HST. Not only lack of expansion but feeding issues as well. Eye opening! A jammed gun is not good on the two-way range! Makes me love my snubs all the more.
Yeah, snubs are the best for any gun that can fit in a pocket. Long slide autos VS duty size revolvers are more of a debate, as autos kind of "win", but pocket autos, ehh, 6+1 of maybe a jam VS 6 of 100% reliability is a huge difference.
“A jammed gun is not good on the two-way range!” That got a chuckle out of me and I must say wiser words have never been spoken. I’ve always been a revolver guy but I have had some autos that have been 100% reliable; Springfield GI 45 ACP, Sig 45 ACP, Star PD 45 ACP, Davis P-32, Tanfoglio/Excam 25 ACP (my current EDC), and a S&W 9mm. Others jammed just enough that I got rid of them- Sterling 22LR, Iver Johnson 380, Raven 25, and a late-80’s era Springfield 45 ACP. I can say tho that I’ve never gotten rid of a revolver for reliability issues. I think sometimes with autos it’s the luck of the draw if you get a good one, especially with the small ones.
I'm kinda impressed by those speedy Federal IRT rounds would serve as great defensive cartridges. Thanks Sam.
I'm kinda impressed by those speedy Federal IRT rounds would serve as (a good single shot) defensive ---cartridges--- cartridge. Thanks Sam.
Thanks for watching!
Bullet tech is getting good , THANKS for a good test .
I’ve carried Federal Premium Hydra Shock HP for years. My concern w/ball ammo is over penetration/collateral damage. The Federal has been 100% reliable in my LCP
I think I have tested that years ago in water jugs. If I recall it functioned very well. I may have to try it again. Hydrashok is still a great round in certain cartridges, I know the .327 Federal is one of them.
Most of my .380s are loaded with Federal Hydra-Shocks, too. My old agency used to issue it for our BUG/OD pistols and I was gifted several boxes before I retired. I liked what it did when we shot cars on our range. And when I shot mounted, pressurized radial tires, it did like a cookie-cutter, removing a chunk of rubber and flattening the tire in short order wheras the rubber would almost "heal" from an FMJ round and take much longer to flatten. Now, people aren't tires, but still ...
I'm old-school, too and have stuck mostly with that round through the years.
@@GunSam Sam, my son and I went to the range last night and test that .327 Federal American Eagle 100 grain JSP I mentioned in your last video. Interesting results as we compared it for recoil against my .357 Golden Saber 125 grain BJHP, and frankly we both felt the .327 round was at least as hard recoiling as the .357, both through 4" barrels of equal weight. Definitely a hot load. Just FYI. BTW I like your T shirt. I grew up in Michigan and have gone to many games in the Big House. Thanks for the video
The IRT is target ammo, period. It's the only ammo that jams in my Ruger Max. I love the Federal HST, Hydro Shok, Critical Defense, and Precision One as self-defense ammo.
I currently have Underwood Extreme Defender ammo in my LCP Max. I believe it's the best ammo for this pistol. I've also shot about 200 rounds of HST thru it and it never jammed. It never jammed with anything yet and I've tried 6 or 7 different types thru and around 900 rounds all together.
Underwood is a great choice
The LCP max has a redesigned feeding ramp that works best with HP self defense ammo.
ruclips.net/user/shortsyHsMbBCU25A?feature=share
Yeah the underwood’s are great! Fort Scott TUI are another great choice.
I will also say hot 380 ACP causes reliability problems in my LCP. When you consider the Kel Tec it is based on, the weak magazine spring strength and zero slide runup the design has, it is not a wonder hot ammo causes problem. The next round has little time to rise before the slide goes forward and hot ammo greatly increases the chance the slide outruns the magazine. Adding a stronger spring did not help because it attenuates rearward velocity very little but increases slide return speed. No bueno.
Will take reliability and lower power over increasing the odds of a malfunction any day.
Just recently found this channel and was really enjoying seeing some interesting .380 tests, so I was excited to see this pop up! Thank you for the great information!
Thanks!
test at 380 hydra Shok Deep 😍
Add me to the list. This is the no1 round i'd like to see tested in 380.
FMJ wound channel volume: 2.2 cubic inches.
Federal Indoor Training: 1.44 inches.
Federal HST (Not fully expanded, estimated at .45 total diameter): 2.43
I'd really like to see Underwood 90 Grain XTP +P out of the LCP, as well as Federal Hydra-Shok Deep.
Where did you get the data?
@@onpsxmember I plugged into a calculator.
I haven't seen that info before, cool to see though. I might add, shot two on steel with the HST had a 0 cubic inch path!
@@GunSam Ha, yup. But really though, you just run the formula for finding the volume of a cylinder, take penetration depth and average diameter to get your number.
I picked up the LCP MAX last week I am going carry it with Underwood 90 gran ex stem penetrator.
just use ball then
XTP seem to be the defacto best choice in 380. It expands to about .45 cal and penetrates 12+" most of the time. The only JHP that will normally do that in 380.
Hornady Critical Defense .380 expands and feeds consistently in the LCP without the excessive pressure. Winchester white box JHP is nearly as good but at a lower price.
@@Valorius ruclips.net/video/wWmg0wB5xsA/видео.html
Another good and interesting video. Thanks for sharing and take care.
Thank you, take care.
The LCP's benefit greatly from polishing the feed ramp with a Dremel, cotton cone shaped insert and some polishing compound. They are also reportedly more reliable with the magazines marked "made it Italy". Yet the USA made mags are just as reliable once you do a ramp polishing on the throat of the barrel. No more hang-ups after that.
Still have not seen any 380 pocket gun test to make me change over from my Lehigh Extreme Penetrator ammo. My LCP Custom seems to feed them fine. No jams or misfeeds so far. Each gun needs to be tested for each ammo though. Just because it is the same model, does not mean it will work the same. Thanks for the video.
Getting near 40,000 +++ Subs !!! Great Job !!
Taking awhile lol. I used to be getting like 1,200 per 28 days, now I am at only 600. I always see people go from like 10,000 to 100,000, being below me then way over me like it's nothing. It's hard work being the guy that does legit work, not just shooting things into fireballs, mag dumping and all of that. Nothing wrong with all that, but a lot of people just don't like real world stuff. Then they come to my channel fresh off one of those other guys yelling that 6 rounds aren't enough lol
I've never had good feeding reliability with the HST. It is by far the most powerful 380 ACP I have. If I was still carrying a 380, I would not be carrying the HST unless I was carrying something larger than that LCP that would feed it properly.
The flat meplat on that indoor target range ammo should actually cause more damage than a round nose bullet. I keep hearing that handgun bullets do their damage by crushing tissue. A round nose is an efficient shape to push through with little resistance and therefore less damage. The largest meplat you can get to feed reliably should do more crushing damage. Also, 168fpe is not at all bad for a bullet that doesn't have to use some energy to expand.
I would say that the Federal IRT is not the worst choice you can make for a carry load. Remember how simple wadcutters perform out of a revolver. I'm less confident about the LCP though!
In all cases, I would say that underestimating the effectiveness of 380 ACP is not something anyone on the receiving end should do. It is way more powerful than 32 ACP and certainly more powerful than 22LR. I think the bad rap is coming from the super short barrels. 380 ACP is basically a scaled down 45 ACP and still wants a 3-4 inch barrel to work properly. From the shooter's perspective, reducing the size of the pistol too much just makes the round harder to shoot and reduces the reliability of the whole thing.
@@MrAvidOutdoorsman ROFL! I haven't actually looked at the cartridge specs lately, but I definitely recall that what Browning did was shrink all the dimensions on the 45 ACP to get the 380 ACP. He even went to small pistol primers! LOL
One thing I have noticed looking back, is that for me stuff like 56 gr ARX, 70 gr ammo and even 85 seem to not jam much, getting into 95 gr it starts to. I have also noticed that 140 to 160 FPE I get almost no jams, over 160 FPE it jams. I have a unique problem though, all my pistols seem to be smaller than yours, so sometimes a "limp wrist" occurs inside my palms even though I grip it tight.
@@GunSam Where are you getting your special edition extra compact pistols anyway?
Thanks for sharing your videos and keep them coming please.
I did buy some and like the way they work in my LCP Max. Thanks for the tip on new ammo for my pocket gun. The LCP Max is also my pajama gun as I stay armed even at home in my pajamas.
Thanks
Good test and I like the practical at the end, thanks.
It's a shame 380 ammo can be so expensive. I live in Florida where people do not wear several layers of clothing most of the year. Anyone who does really stands out. People would wonder why you're wearing a jacket or other winter type clothing in 70 80 and 90 degree weather.
380 would is a viable choice for self defense here, especially since many of the pistols are so small they fit in a pocket. Oh well, I still have my 32, 32 H&R mag and 38 rounds to rely on out of my snubby revolvers.
good vid! I have that same pistol! and all ways wonderd what would be the best choice's in ammo.Ive tried alot of differnt types and just settled on Federal American Eagle FMJ.
I carry the LCP 10th Anniversary edition and I love it
I have the original keltect p3at. Super reliable!! I love it also.
What bullets are you carrying ?
Dependability 1st , accuracy 2nd
penetration 3rd… expansion gravy
I carry that identical LCP Ruger running the 95 grain bullnose I'm in my sixties now my hands are crippled up don't work so well done a trigger job on it from Chris with M carbo here on RUclips and have absolutely no complaints
To keep it simple, bc I choose Hornady CD FTX I’m my 38 SPL, I chose the same brand for my 380 ACP for my LCP2.
Love the vid as usual.
👍😊 function is important .
I used to recommend xtp for slight expansion or htp which occasionally tumbles but Winchester JHP or Flat Nose is maybe just as good...meaning nothings is great in .380 shorter barrels. Sold my LCP that was always backup and replaced it
I may have to try some ammo with XTP's. I was thinking I had, but looking back I don't think I have ever ran a .380 with an XTP in gel. I need to.
From lucky gunner's test with .380 you can see that there are some good penetrating and expanding hollow point rounds! The best was Hornady 90 gr FTX Critical Defense. You also already had some good test with penetration and expension in .380 but I cant remember the type.
FTX and XTP by Hornady are the top choice. Not for their ballistic performance totally. But, also because the very narrow profile of the bullet is reliable at feeding. Tried and true hollow point bullet design.
If you add bone to the equation Critical defense fails miserably. XTP is a better choice.
@@Followme556Did you tried it? This is speer but show that. 380 is much better then many gel test let you think. ruclips.net/video/8NfS9owxPiU/видео.html
WOW! 232 ft-lbs on the HST from the LCP??? That's nuts! I must've missed that one...
My hands are too large for .380acp. I'm no whimp in forearm strength either. I guess probably the smallest pistol I'd ever attempt to carry (non-revolver anyway) would be a P365XL. But I prefer big holes so I'm one of those weird 45acp guys.
Love my Colt Officers model 45 and carried it for years ...except in summer with shorts and Tank tops, when I left it at home more often than not. LCP goes nicely in the pocket at those times of the year.
Watch some videos on the bodyguard 2.0. The ergonomics are amazing.
Please test the Hornady critical defense. In Paul Harrell's test, that's the only 380 that expands reasonably well from a 2.5 inch barrel.
Cool test. A hard cast 380 might do well against the MDF or bone too
Hard cast 380 will get 30+" of penetration in gel
I keep hearing MDF. What due that stand for
For .380 Xtreme Penetrator or Xtreme Defender are the best choices in my opinion. .380 hollowpoints either penetrate well or expand well but very rarely do both well.
Fort Scott TUI are another great choice for non expanding ammo. Check them out.
I agree with your results,my LCP,the first generation , don't like hollow points.i just put a good defense round in the chamber and then my newest fmjs in the mag .I don't carry it much but for deep conceal it very good
Thanks for the video. Been looking for best ammo for the new lcp max!🇺🇲🇺🇲
After watching this video I bought two boxes of the Federal IRT ammo a few weeks ago and was surprised to see that they are now brass-cased instead of nickel. Haven’t shot any yet, but am interested to see if they’ll be as reliable in my new LCP as the nickel-cased ones were in your gun. I normally carry a .25 ACP for EDC but my brother gave me a new LCP for Christmas so I’m now doing the required ammo tests to see what functions best in it for EDC. I’m down to this IRT round v. the Fiocchi 90gr standard JHP that has done well in meat & bone tests. As you’ve demonstrated, reliability is key with these little pocket pistols. Thanks for another great, informative video! 👍
how did it turn out??
I’ve had great results as far as feeding and accuracy with Hornady American Gunner in my LCP. Shoots to point of aim and has never failed to feed or extract.
I have an lcp .it doesn't like hollow point and I don't trust it with flat point ether.so I put a hollow point in the chamber and fill the mag with round nose fmj and I put a hogue grip on it.i also have a 10 round back up magazine.itsba. Great little gun for deep conceal.
Another test, have watched many-cannot remember, but I liked the 2 x 4 test, 4-6 one foot pieces of 2 x 4 and see how many each bullet will go through.
I plan to buy some of the Federal and try it in my LCP and other 380 pistols. Less recoil is great since I have nerve damage in my hands so shot-to-shot control can be an issue.
Should have the Horn-ee-day 90gr critical defense, hands down the best defense ammo on the market!
Have? What's that mean?
Great test! Thank you!
In most of the tests I have seen it seems something loaded with an xtp bullet usually performs the best in the pocket .380s. I know I have seen some other tests with some newer stuff think there is a Hydrashok Deep for the micro pistols now think there is a micro pistol HST too think that is 2 I have seen perform pretty good too but for the most part the more premium stuff seems to expand really nice but only get 8-9 inches of penetration and the xtp isn't as pretty or get as much expansion but still gets 12 inches or so penetration. So many companies loading the bullet too and its generally a bit cheaper than buying the more premium stuff.
Bodyguard 2.0 should be in your collection for your videos.
I have watched a multitude of small .380 tests I don't think there is a hollow point that can be totally relied upon. You almost have to go to a gun with a longer barrel then you have left the small .380 world. I think Winchester white box flatness 95 grain is probably the best bet. The problem with exotics copper composits Phillips head type bullets is you never know where a situation is going to wind up. Exotics can be used qginst you in court. Thanks for the presentation I enjoy them all.
I find Remington 88 gr JHP to be the better round for carry. It never expands, and part of that because it is nearly identical in shape to a .380 ball round. That being said, with no expansion it still does a lot of damage and penetrates less than a ball round. Even the Goats at Strasbourg test featured that round, and though I don't have the information pulled up, the Rem 88 gr JHP had an average incapacitation time at like 10 seconds, maybe it was 13 or 14 I don't recall. The control round (95 gr FMJ) was averaging like 30 seconds which proves the effectiveness of a non expanded HP as better than a ball round. SO for me it's that Remington 88 gr JHP, comes in both the Remington HTP and the Remington UMC.
Great video as usual. However I like sticking with the HST’s. While it’s known that the .380 HST doesn’t expand for squat when passing first through heavy clothing, it doesn’t bother me. The round almost always does NOT over penetrate in gel testing. The energy from the bullet gets dumped into the body (Target). Sometimes the bullet does indeed expand, whereas the FMJ never expands. I’d rather carry the “sometimes” bullet in that case.
I may or may not test more ammo in my LCP, haven't in some time because of how so many people lose their mind when it jams with a random hollow point, and because they never had that experience with FMJ ammo, they troll me that it's me. But what I was going to say, is that with my Shield EZ, the best ammo I have ever seen in .380 ACP is Federal Hydrashok Deep, outperformed the HST in the Shield EZ. If I were to do some more LCP testing I think that round would do very well.
@@GunSam Yeah, just ignore the trolls. Most of them have been actually “owning” a firearm for about a hot cup of coffee! Some of those trolls just drove up and haven’t even lit it in “park” yet, but they’re suddenly experts in the field of guns and ammo. Keep up your excellent work!
Yeah, lol. Had three people in one day basically tell me that wrapping my thumbs was poor form, and I needed to go thumbs forward. Two of the people who commented this, commented it on my revolver only videos.......
I've heard the winchester flat nose 380 is good. Have you tested those?
Great vid! I am getting that very gun soon and this will help me find a round for carry.
Thank you
Great info, thanks
i have the 70 gr IRT 380, also 9 mm and 40 version of IRT so tests on them i hope i find, i dont have the 45 version yet but will buy at least a box of them soon
Sam my carry is a Ruger LCP Max so I made some spicy 90gr sig v crown, 90gr xtp, 65gr Lehigh defence extreme defender using 3.4 gr titegroup. Chrono mid 1100 fps.. got really good expansion/damage using your meat test.. I have no gel sadly and the location I used to test is no longer available. It would be really cool to see you make some of these up and test them like you did these. I know we have a lot of reloaders on this channel, let's have a reloading special!
Titegroup is some good powder. I load .38+P at 5 gr 125 XTP as my go to load. Runs about 950 FPS from a snub.
Looking good brother, would you test hornady american gunner 90gr xtp if you can find some?
I was getting 4 water jugs out my lcp with reliable expansion.
Would like to see your thoughts.
I will have to test something with an XTP, I got a lot of requests today for it. Might be American Gunner or might be Underwood loaded with XTP
@@GunSam I would definitely love to see the american gunner next to a +p option 😎
@@GunSam have you tested 68 gr underwood xtreme defenders in 380?
It looks like they use the same 70 gr bullet for their 9x19mm ammo at an insane published velocity of 1625 fps, putting it pretty darn close to 7.62x25mm, at least on paper and in a perfect world. I'm thinking very shallow penetration for that one. But I do like the .380 performance! Ammo isn't all that expensive, either.
They seem to also load a 100 gr .38 special round, too. Hmm ...
Fort Scott TUI?👍
Ok a 99gr hollowpoint and a 90 gr round nose FMJ, vs the 70 gr flat nose of unknown bullet construction. Unless that 70 gr flat nose is almost half hollow on the backside I would bet anything its a copper poly matrix like the ARX , The roundnose penetration of 20 3/4" and 22 1/2" is over the FBI protocol unfortunately but maybe that's what some people want. (A clear pass thru.) Brass or Nickel plated cases expand the same when fired. Nickel plated cases, have a lower coefficient of friction making them easy to extract. They also keep your brass from tarnishing and can be easier to spot when doing a press check to make sure the chamber is empty. Unfortunately Federal and Hornady are not producing any new Nickel plated cases, until the Chinese "supply chain crisis" is over someday. (We cant seem to get any raw materials from China) So expect that to go on until we get new leadership (if we can get better leaders in DC.) This cartridge turned out to be less recoil, decent penetration, and if its a copper/ poly matrix, its is frangible! So you can walk up fairly close to a steel target angle shooting it, as the projectile just explodes into thousands of tiny particles. (wearing protective glasses and gloves) If its some other kind of lead free projectile, then beware that could be dangerous or deadly (if its zinc or some other metal.) Federal American Eagle 70 gr 380 acp lead free. green box. I'm gonna check it out for a practice round if its cheap enough..
This guy never killed a chipmunk 😂
i shot the IRT 70 gr before, was more expensive to shoot but i noticed i am faster and more accurate with those light rounds in my Ruger Lcp, for me i choose speed and accuracy first in considering a defense load but seeing at least penetration is good for these rounds its nice to know mighty mouse could get the job done, the hand on gun jacket carry method is mine also, as i walk and say i feel a threat is comming i will walk with hand on gun, both hands in pocket, Bob Stasch of Chicago PD ( 14 + real gun fights) has this method also when he approached in traffic stops or homes where he knew something could get out of control and dangerous fast, the reason why he started with small semi auto or small J frame revolver is because any time you have your duty weapon out you had to fill out a report and if it was out every day with no reason wich they thought (safety was no reason to have gun out of holster) the department would make a big deal about it, the politics got in the way so bob decided he would reach in his jacket with hand on small semi auto or J frame revolver while approaching a car so he could respond quickly, if no one seen the gun you wouldnt have to fill out info on why you had the gun out, what this shows is bobs main carry often was a small semi auto or J frame revolver and his sig 45 would be almost like a back up, so be it strange sometimes your back up is your main carry and your main carry is your back up, car window abushes and front door ambushes on police happened very quickly not giving them time to draw so the hand on gun in jacket pocket was a little insurance that if something went down fast you get the first shot, bob had a saying at the end of the day "i am going home" i will use any advantage i can to win in the streets, so its hows that a small gun can get you defending yourself quicker in some situations but you always have your other gun to, duty size or small you can start with either depending on the situation. thats why small revolvers and double action only small pistols are nice to have, no accidental discharge being it doesnt have a light trigger wich means you can carry it any way you want on you even in a jacket pocket and even shoot through it making you faster the your threat. bob carried a 45 but he said what ever gun you shoot the best with as far as accuracy and speed he said was ok, especially the one your confident with wich means the caliber debate is not a big deal but your ability to use that gun fast and accurate
I would never carry any type of frangible/matrix ammo for self defense. There is a real possibility of the ammo disintegrating. Ive seen it happen on range and its will sideline a gun until all the crap is cleaned out. Not saying its super common, but does happen and is going to be more likely in a carry gun thats banging around, plus they are not robust enough for a round that will most likely be chambered multiple times in a carry gun. I guess you could load the first 1 or 2 as something else to avoid the rechambering issues, but then Whats the point as most defensive encounters are 3 shots fired.
I have had some of the Inceptor defensive ammo fragment when shooting and make 3 holes on paper, but nothing that made the gun stop working. It was a revolver though, if there's an issue it's probably with feeding.
I will probably never use a 380 for serious purposes, but it is good to know this info. I will say that a medium size 380, specifically a Beretta 84, makes a great training gun. Accurate and modest recoil.
.380 when ya can’t find a sharp stick
Thanks for sharing
lol, right. It's all about contrast. Look at .22 LR, then you realize how awesome .380 is.
@@GunSam So true.
So you'll give me your .380 for a sharp stick?
I wonder if the IRT ammo has lead and mercury free primers. A lot (most) lead exposure that people get when it comes to shooting comes from the primers and not the bullets. I could be wrong about that, but have heard it from reliable sources. I guess bullets don't shed lead in a way that's either breathed in or absorbed through skin... but the primers can contain lead styphnate and mercury fulminate which are micronized and spread through the air in breathable particles that are also small enough to be absorbed through skin. I don't know if it's true, but I heard from 2 respected instructors on youotube that believe they got their lead poisoning/toxicity from carrying an unclean gun that had fowling up against their skin on a regular basis.
There was some sort of logo on the box that said clean ignition or something along those lines
I'm curious why you use 4 layers of denim? I don't know anyone that wears 4 pairs of jeans.
My LCP is on its way back from its second repair at the factory. Hoping they replaced the gun. Pretty concerned about reliability right now. Lots of failures of various kinds with fmj. Need this gun to be reliable or ive got to sell it.
I find my Ruger 380 starts getting sensitive (feed/extraction) after a few rounds. I stretched the spring made it a little better
Love your show but I do not like clear ballistics gel.
I am still old school and alternate between hardball and self defense ammo
The best .380 hollow points are cheap designs that are tried and true for reliable feeding. XTP standard pressure and WWB. I've also had good luck with Remington UMC hollow points. Lol none of them expand, but they all have narrow cavities so they feed good.
You don't really need an expanding projectile with .380 lol.
@@macriggland6526 XTP normally expands, there are dozens of gel tests on youtube showing that. Doesn't expand a ton, but it expands.
@@Followme556 The point is that it doesn't matter if you have a non-expanding projectile in .380. It's all about the same. Like magnum buckshot and regular buckshot.
@@macriggland6526 FBM and I both carry expanding 380+P XTP JHP's in our LCP Max pistols. So does our nephew (He has an LCP1).
The only reason to carry a non expanding +P is for deeper penetration, I agree with you on that.
👍
I'm beginning to think a JSP or some type of soft point would be optimal for a 380 defense round. Too bad no one makes a 380 jsp.
The 12-18 inches standard is completely arbitrary based on one shootout. In the Miami Dade shootout, the perpetrator was shot in the arm, went into his chest, and stopped 1 inch short of the heart. Based on that the FBI required a minimum of 12 inches. If you shoot someone from the side and hit his arm then yes. But most delf defense shootings occur between 0-20 feet and chances are rare of a sideways shooting. The facts are you only need to penetrate 5-6 inches to hit a vital organ. The FBI standard has been used by ammo makers as a marketing gimmick.
You need a new LCP I have had 4 and not one has jammed with any type ammo!!
Go Green!
Hmmm..... interesting
Hydra-shok deep
The best .380 ammo might as well be called the least worst .380 ammo lol. Good test.
RIP rounds are quite impressive. Might make for a good video. It is expensive but equally impressive
I tested some of their Telos, same company. Wasn't too impressed, I don't know if the Rip is better. Haven't release the Telos video yet.
Watching your videos got me to buy a .380 and a 9mm. I was opposed to them for years until I seen their capabilities.
Not impressive at all. Very shallow penetration. You won’t find one single SWAT team carrying that junk, which is the Glaser Safety Slug of the modern era. Boutique junk ammo.
@@theaccount628 I believe every bullet design has a purpose. If a person is concerned about over penetration they are perfect. They cause so many wound channels that are deep enough to be lethal without blowing through the intended target and possibly killing a bystander. SWAT uses frangible rounds in some cases, those cause way less of a wound than the RIP round
Missiouri Bullet Company makes a 380 " For Secret Agent Use " that shoots 1" group's at 1,000 yards. It cannot ever miss. It is (1) shot = (1) Kill 100% of the time. ( goes on and on )
Show the bullets close up....saw nothing
What are you talking about? The 10% clear ballistics gel is what is more dense than organic anybody will tell you that ask Google? Lol
What are YOU talking about? You have obviously never handled it. So let me get this straight, based on your assumption....or misinformation, if the FBI sets a standard of no more than 18" in gel as that could create overpenetration, this is what? Like a person that is 36" thick? okay bud. lol, had my laugh of the day.
just use ball
That ammo sucks you got to get under wood ultimate defense extreme defender extreme penetrator
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