Fibreglass hull, WHY WOULD YOU BOTHER?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 30 май 2023
- There’s various hull material options out there…but which boat is best for you? Do you know the nitty gritty about fibreglass GRP including OSMOSIS? Hear from experienced sailors @SailingUma on their thoughts on fibreglass and the ins and outs to look out for from a boatbuilder.
➡️ Don’t miss the rest of the series coming soon informing you about steel, aluminium, carbon composite and wood.
Guests: 🎖
@SailingUma
/ @sailinguma
sailinguma?igsh...
Get involved! SUBSCRIBE to see more product testing, reviews and sustainability in sailing. It really helps us build this community and you can help us decide what videos to make next! 🎥
www.youtube.com/@SailHub?sub_...
Follow on INSTAGRAM 📱
/ sailhubchannel
#osmosis #saillife #sailing
#hull #fibreglass #fiberglass #GRP #yacht #boat #sail #sailing #ocean #cruiser #bluewater #diy #boatyard #mould #boatlife #materials #material #construction #layup #sailhub
00:54 Advantages for cruisers
02:12 Sailing UMA testimonial
03:47 Osmosis
05:33 Types of fibreglass
06:21 Different Layups
06:42 Summary of GRP 
Спорт
Cool informative video guys 🙌
Cheers, glad it may of been useful to you! Steels up next 👊🏼
Dude, Sweet! Cheers fella✌️sorry we missed you on our uK trip, down at Southampton for the show this year? Let’s get together there!
WOW - I am 2mins into this vid and already there are some comments that really resonate with me - At the drinking club where I am doing my rebuild (yacht club - but they seem to spend more time/effort making sure the bar is up and running - I call it a drinking club with a sailing problem) I see ppl slipping thier boat and doing fiberglass repairs themselves every week. My ALU boat ? - not so lucky - I need to hire expensive specialized SKILLED ppl to do any work to my hull AND I had to strip the interior so as to get access to the hull for re-plating some areas of the hull and so the boat did not catch fire while TIG welding new plates in. Actually, its near impossible to put hull plates in without removing the interior (or sections of it depending on how extensive the re-plating is). So your observations are SPOT ON.
Cheers Jim
We have a 1980 grp Airex foam core composite hull. Totally dry when we had it surveyed in 2021. Lay up is 6mm grp outer skin, 25mm airex core, 6mm inner skin. A total of 12mm of grp but 37 times stiffer than a solid 12mm hull.
Hey Tim,
Good to hear your happy with your boat!! Yeah, a cores hull is way way stiffer, when mixed with a light weight build it really ins a good performance boost!
The cloth you held in your hands was indeed a type of fiberglass. It only becomes GRP when infused with resin and cured. Also, your thumbnail showed Vestas after she ran aground in the Indian Ocean. She was a VOR 65 and was made of carbon fiber - in some ways similar to fiberglass/GRP, but not the same. And finally osmosis is not a problem in salt water only.
Thanks for the info, it’s revolutionary.
Revolutionary for a sailing channel? That’s a bit concerning.
@ericvanvlandren8987 I think you may find that was sarcasm.🤩
@SailHub Nice short video on GRP! I think this video might be worth revisiting to discuss at least two additional topics: #1 common "core" materials often used in fiberglass builds (cork, etc.), as well as the fact that some boats opt for solid GRP to be super strong, but naturally have a weight (like Nauticats). #2 Newer "greener" Fiberglass alternatives, like the product you covered at the recent boat show. Optionally, you could mention that fiberglass currently has some environmental sustainability end-of-life issues; however, some fiberglass recycling efforts are starting to show up, partially due to all the disposal of wind power blades. 👍
Osmosis is nothing to do with salt. GRP boats in fresh water get osmosis faster than boats in salt water.
Hi Nick, I used salt it as a simple way to explain what many people see as a confusing situation.
I do think you may be confusing hydrolysis with osmosis though? Give me a second here… Hydrolysis is not affected by salt. However when this phase is complete we end up with an acidic saline content made from the breakdown of the resin, this can take years and from here we start with an new phase, osmosis.
With osmosis the solute molecules within the hull and the water try to equalise and cause a force of water through the membrane to a hydrolysis effected area and eventually cause a pressure which becomes a blister.
Salt content of the surrounding water effects the pressures in this stage as they are trying to equalise with the acidic saline content now present within the hull that was created during the hydrolysis phase.
So water is passing through the membrane to the area of hydrolysis due its salt content. So build up of water that causes the blisters but at the same time it is differing in salt content that causes it to find its way there.
Hence why freshwater is worse, it is trying harder to get to the hydrolysis than an already salty solution such as sea water.
Your right though - not the most accurate description, maybe we should do an in depth look at this subject and cover moisture readings and epoxy coatings at the same time.
Thanks for your input - much appreciated. I will work on some better descriptions! Cheers 👌
In my Civil and Structural Engineering Course in the 1970s it was said that Polyester has a limited life and that it breaks down as it attempts to itself become Water. A lot of Research was done starting in the 1960s after it was stated that within 10 years, every Beach in the World would be 30ft deep in Plastics, but it soon became clear that wasn’t going to happen, as the lifespan of Polyester exposed to UV light, was only about a year. As an aside, Underground Plastics with no exposure to UV light, had a working life of about 90 years, and with so much water Pipe, Drainage Pipesork starting to be Plastic in the 1960s, by 2050 ish, we are going to be having awful problems with that stuff Failing. tbh, I’m having a hard time finding any reason to accept that there is any such problem as “micro plastics” as a result, and it is hard to avoid the conclusion that this is just yet another example of deliberate Fear-mongering. All that aside, We do have a plastics issue, and that stems from far too few Plasma Gasification Plant around, which can be used to Convert Waste into Energy with Syngas Production alongside them, and for which all forms of Waste Plastics are a Truly Precious Feeedstock that needs to be exploited efore those waste plastics disappear themselves, and we need to get them out of landfill, while there is still Feedstock to rescue. Personally, my next Sailboat is going to be a fully Vinyl ester Laminate, which will have epoxy 3 layer Barrier Coat of straight laminating epoxy. Should see me out with luck. Bob. 👍🏴🇬🇧⛵️🌟🌟🌟
@@brownnoise357 Hey Bob, some super useful information right there. the microplastics debate is a strange old situation. We cant get around what has been done and we do have to look at the dangers to plankton which basically keeps the planet alive.
With modern materials there is no real reason to to continue with plastics that degrade. There are so many more options that also better from a maintenance perspective! Enjoy your vinyl ester laminate - I think its a step in the right direction!
@@brownnoise357
Have you looked at Basalt … if you can secure a supply at a real price it’s way ahead .
It’s also nicer to work with. .. if you want lighter use foam core wood or other natural finer .
Look up the Basalt guru’s site oh it’s impervious to osmosis…. and a great multi spectral insulator. Impact scratch and gouge resistance are way beyond GRP it’s also way greener.
There’s a US couple building a Schonning with Basalt below the water and in key areas .
Fiberglass is fine as long as you don't hit anything. Yes, it requires some protection in order to prevent it rotting away over time but it's a reasonable effort and a lot less work than on a steel hull and more robust when not taken care off all too well for a while. Aluminium doesn't require that much maintenance but you'll pay dearly if you ignore electrolysis and galvanic corrosion. I'd still pick Aluminium though for the added strength and overall robustness.
Is luck aluminium too, like you say though, fibreglass is an easy option for people which is probably why it is so popular!
@@SailHub I'd say it's not really popular, it's just everyone for decades becaues they are so damn cheap to build for the shipyards.
@@diotough yup. I’d agree with that!
You didn't mention the fact that it is highly flammable, you don't see aluminium or steel boats burning. It is very difficult to repair if diesel or petrol gets into it as the epoxy does not bond. Many countries are introducing high disposal fees for fibreglass boats and will rise as its an epidemic. This is a large reason secondhand boats are cheap because people want to get rid of them.
Unfortunately that’s not quite true - aluminium can melt in a battery fire, it’s unlikely but it can happen.
The other thing here is, if you have a diesel fire you are not likely to get it absorbed into the fibres, it will most likely burn off before absorption can take place.
The next thing we need to account for is the size of the fire, a small to medium fire, say an contained engine room fire will cause extreme heat where the hull resin will burn.
However as a boat builder I would suggest your going to cut it all out and grind off the heat effected areas completely any way. It’s generally not too hard to repair unless of course it’s a complete hull fire and there are no areas the fire has not effected.
It would certainly take time though and the unlucky soul doing the work would need some skills, understand how to make moulds, laminate as well as understand the strength properties they are dealing with.
If they were paying for this knowledge and time it’s almost certainly a write off.
Great explaination. I’ve heard that boats like Gunboat and HH are epoxy fiberglass and/or epoxy carbon without the need for vinylesther coating thus saving weight. Is that right?
Hey, so HH uses epoxy which means a lighter build and pretty much impervious to osmosis. As for the Gunboat - I may be wrong but I think they use vacuum infused e-glass which may be polyester resin still but they could also be epoxy. The vacuum infusion reduces resin content and therefore weight but also removes air in the laminate which certainly helps to defend against osmosis although it will get in there eventually.
In general if brands uses epoxy they usually shout about it as it’s expensive.
have read from people who do both wood and fiberglass the cost to maintain is about the same If, age brightwork etc is the same only difference is one is wood the other fiberglass
Sure wood is good! I’m actually a wooden boatbuilder, I would say that fibreglass is a lot easier to work with and usually a lot less maintenance. Older fibreglass boats are probably the same though…
In general the better quality the fibreglass lay up the less maintenance you will have. Similar to wood really, the better the timber the longer it lasts.
For me.. the best build is from Aluminium and second to that an epoxy composite build. We’ve all got our own preferences though 👍
@@SailHub When the Gougeon brothers book first came out they had plans for a cold molded boat That was a fun project now, just got the book no plans no boat
Gotta love a cold moulded boat mind! I’ve only build a small one, I think it’s a great way to build. Gotta love the big customs from the likes of Spirit too!
@@SailHub Yes Wanted to go to the Northwest school of Woodeen boat building Didn't have the money to live there for1 year One of those local people have the advantage
Sure, I lived aboard in some super cheap club moorings where I trained. I certainly could not afford the accommodation. However I do think it is just as easy to learn the trade from a job in a good yard. Although good yards are hard to find..
The important thing on GRP is type of core. Better buy a boat without a core from 60/70s and early 80s.
Good point - although if not below the water line a core can make a much stiffer build. A damaged core is a nightmare however some are not too bad. I guess it depends on the type and the build quality
@@SailHub my Endurance is absolutely bombproof, all solid and very thick. Heavy but who cares I'm not racing!
@sailingmrnice sweet! I’m a big fan of bomb proof boats! Also race boats though, horses for courses! ⛵️👍
Thanks for including Uma! According to "Chasing latitudes" theyre idiots. Made me love their chanel more!
Hi Edward, cheers for commenting!
That’s some pretty harsh works there! We’ve spoken with Dan and Kika a few times now and we really enjoyed their company. Far from idiots, really knowledgeable and experienced sailors without any ego. Super sound guys👍⛵️👌
Cheap production for many, many boats. Advantages are cost and less maintenance than wood. Disadvantages are osmosis, insulation absence, brittleness. For me, steel is the way to go. Just buy paint and keep rust under control. Steel is safe.
Steel is real! And that’s no joke!
I've seen grp hulls from the 60's with osmosis on the outside but complete dry bilge coz the hulls were an inch thick😂😂😂
This is really common! In fact even the modern boats can remain dry for a long time. I recently consulted for a 15yr old Bavaria that was only just to say keeping moisture out. Scary stuff and a huge job to put right! 😮
@@SailHub yes, i have a 1965 nicholson 32 and that is heavy boat and thick pure fiberglass, the deck as well, does not bend or anything. Good boat and no early reefing needed, she will sail fast with strong wind and remains stable, can leave the helm to get a coffee and she keeps going straight.
@@johan8724 sounds like a tank! Awesome 👍
The biggest Con is that its bad for the environment as nobody has a solution what to do with GRP after use……
Now that’s a fair point, there’s a lot going on with recycling carbon and resins at the moment but fibreglass… not so much. It’s really not ideal.
It's not necessarily bad for the environment though, it just takes up space in a landfill. Landfills in general are a good thing since they can eventually be remediated and turned back into a natural environment. I've seen some landfills that have turned into very nice city parks, as well as reforested.
Also, while in production, a landfill produces a large amount of natural gas, which we consume as a replacement to petroleum products.
I know there are some downsides to a landfill, like water table pollution, but being contained to a specific area that is used for millions of people at a time pretty well mitigates those things.
@@n0madtv that’s an interesting view on it - thanks🍻
Aluminium all the way if you can afford it.
Personally I think this is a good statement so long as the owners are aware of how to look after it properly - Chris
Construction materials for where you want to take your boat. A Personal perspective if going to extremely cold Latitudes such as the Arctic or Antarctic, a steel Boat, everywhere in between, either a reinforced Polyester boat properly barrier coated, or a reinforced Vinylester boat properly Barrier coated (needed as base coats for antifouling anyway. I would never have an aluminium boat as without meticulous TLC and a careful eye on things, corrosion can be bloody fast and nasty. and after building a high quality expensive hardwood marine ply boat, I will never have any plywood on a boat, or built of plywood, ever again, and not just because Termites love eating the stuff, and soon it is bye bye bulkheads etc. Termites don’t just live in the Tropics by these, Europe has a big Termite problem, and they have now made their way to Britain. Not that it is bad for the climate, because it isn’t and our atmosphere is actually short of it, but guess what are far and away the biggest source of CO2 in the World ? Yep Termites. 🤔
Hey Bob,
some more great points there, I agree with them all. I would suggest that an aluminium build can be different these days. Electrolysis being the main issue, and wit recent technology there's no absolute need for many boats to plug in to 240v these days, there are also so many good products for good electrical isolation. With specific zinc coatings such as Doxanode becoming the norm for aluminium there's an added safety anode there too.
If your aware of the issues and know how to see them early I think aluminium is the superior choice, if your not the steel is probably the winner in my eyes.
@@SailHub Total Hull protection Below the Waterline can be provided cheaply with Cold Galvanising Paint with 97% Zinc Content, which is Also an Antifouling as well as an Anode. Do Not Buy the Marine ersions though, as the are identical to the Land use Versions, but the Land Ones are a Fraction of the Price. Frankly, an Aluminium Boat imho, Must be Hauled out annually (it is good practice for all boats unless they can be beached or have Twin/ Bilge !eels and can dry out) for a thorough inspection, full service, antifoul and Anode checks. Possibly the biggest issue, is how many really skilled aluminium welders are there in the World ? A lot less than skilled steel welders, and both are vastly outnumbered by skilled Fiberglass workers, plus the number of competent amateurs is staggering as well. so for me, as I only longer have any desire, or health reasons to go anywhere Cold, quite the opposite in fact, as I need at least three years in Hot Places es to help starting to reverse disabilities Caused by a Criminally insane Medical Profession, so it really is no Contest , other than finding the Money to Buy One of Course. Still, God willing, my order for a new Island Packet IP 439 should be placed efore the end of this year, as thankfully, despite losing everything I had when my last Sailboat was lost, I had bought some Silver Bullion as insurance against the Crime Syndicate That's Stealing everything called the European Union, when the price was really low, and the price of Silver is ,imely to outdo any Crypto Currencies at some point, and the Sillver Shortage has now reached critical proportions, it looks,s like the Comex Warehouse is now empty, and the LBMA is rapidly being drained. All modern Technology is totally reliant on Silver, and if Stupid Electric Vehicles and Solar Panel Farms keep being Pusned, the World is going to rapidly run out of Silver. RICS Nations get it, India for example bout 304 million ounces of Silver in 2022. Silver is actually the most precious metal by Far, and is the most undervalued asset on the Planet. Not Gold. Pricing reality will be catching up very soon now. Not Financial Advice, but personally I wish I could afford to buy a bit more, while it is still possible to get some. Still, I think I have e ough to get me the Sailboat I need. Fingers crossed. Best Wishes and Fair Winds. Bob. 🤔👍⛵️✨️✨️✨️
Mate, I’m with you there! Will look into the zink treatments, im aware of doxanode and I’m aware of another name that’s it’s sold under - probably the original manufacturer.
As for the eye and finances in general, it’s quite possible that the seas is the last place to be free, go get you IP 439 and enjoy her! Cheers to that 🍻
@@SailHub as an insight here in the UK, a Kilo PaintTin of 97% Zinc, in a silicone Carrier was about £23 a tin including 20% VAT. Three coats should give about 18 months protection, but on annual haulout, after a quick pressure wash, to slap more Coats on a quick keying with a Scotchbrite scrubber once dry, should be all the prep needed. I've read that some fishing boats ha e been using it effectively as both an a tifoul and Anode, for over 10 years, so I'm tempted, if I can't get the builder Island Packet to source a good Outfit to Copper Coat antifoull it, to get them to put 4 Coats of Cold Galvanising Paint below the waterline and on the Prop and through hulls, plus a couple of Coats in all those expensive Zinc Anodes, to see how well it lasts as a test. I'll be mostly in the Caribbean for a while, and that's a good place to see how it golds up. There is a very good chance imho, that it can turn out to be at least as good as Hempel's Excellent Silic One antifouling, but for a fraction of the price. Like Copper, Zinc is one of those essential Supplements needed by Life (my Smallholding has a Chronic Copper Deficiency, all Livestock in the area gets given Copper Supplements, and I take the occasional Copper Supplements as well, just to be on the safe side. Zinc kills nasty viruses by the way. Copper Deficiency in Mammals, has very serious effects not dissimilar to a Neuro Toxin to the Brain. Best Wishes and Fair Winds. Bob in Wales. 👍⛵️✨️✨️✨️
Cool. Thanks for that!
We know a chap who’s testing some zinc bottoms paint agh the moment, we will be watching them too - see how they get on. It’s good to have alternatives and also good to about the marine added tax we seems to spend our lives dodging!