I'd like to see this list, but just the number of effective healing abilities. So anything that only damages, or cleanses, or buffs are not counted, only things that heal or give procs to do better healer. Like the number of buttons needed in an ideal world where you didn't need to move or do damage, only heal.
Good call but that would be subjective as well (as this list is). I opted for "buttons that you press in combat" but if we just go with healing ones we'd run into some weird situations. For example, resto shaman casts of Lava Burst (pure damaging ability) but your next healing surge. So do we count it as a button? And then do you count Flame Shock as a button as it gives you free Lava Burst procs? We'd need to create very robust set of rules before counting :)
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4 heals + 2aoe heals + 2 major cooldowns should do it. The rest could be damage reduction/CC and some other utility. 14 Buttons at most.
All of them are extremely bloated in my opinion. I counted the keybinds on my shadow priest and I got 25. And Shadow is considered a spec with a lot of buttons to press. So something like warrior or hunter will have 15-20 keybinds.
Yeah, that seems to be the trend - everything is button bloated :( I don't play warrior but occasionally I run shadow and BM hunter, may be I'm doing it wrong but their button bloat doesn't seem as bad for some reason. May be because I'm used to playing things like resto shaman and hpal :D
28-32 button is definitely where they should be designing class around, imo. Theres absolutely no reason to above that number imo, less sure but never above.
Complexity does not come only from the number of buttons but also from interactions and effects from pressing the buttons. So having a limit on the amount of buttons is not necessarily going to help but it will at least make them think when designing how to use these buttons. Right now there's 40+ buttons that a druid can press which is insane imo so yeah, a cap around 30ish sounds fair
Pres and Disc are two of the three hardest healers...but have the least buttons. Hpriest and Rshaman are two of the easiest healers but have the most buttons and resto druid is one of the hardest healers with the most buttons haha
@@thelegendbehindthecow I watch a Ton of wow content creators and I got to say you take a fresh approach and your uploads are very thorough!.....I run three healers every season mainly Resto Shaman, Holy Pally and Misty.....I purposely didn't do beta so your content really comes in handy and that your TOTALLY Resot Sham Bias!!!!..lol
@@Duck4Evers Haha, thank you very much for the kind words. And yes, rsham bias is definitely a thing although I do try to have more neutral point of view when doing comparison and tier lists.... and I'm probably failing on that :)
There's a bit of subjectiveness when counting buttons as for example I don't think we need to include things like "Far Sight". No matter how you count though, shaman is definitely in the top of the list. Let's hope those future changes that they promised addresses that.
Posooooooooo, I'm doing quite well sir, hope it's the same with you! Unfortunately my leading skills are as good as those of the professors, so that won't end well. And since the role is vacant, may be consider it =)
@@MrkraZzz Yeah, 25 is actually much less than what you get, let's say as Resto Shaman. I don't know how it compares against other dps specs though. May be time to explore this and make a video about the DPS button count :)
The specs that I used were for M+, yes, but generally the amount of buttons doesn't change that much for raid (there are exceptions of course). Usually you drop something to get something else so the raid values should be close to the M+ ones
I love MW and I think that's the class with the least amount of cooldowns (along with disc prolly) so if you switch to anything else, then you will definitely feel it has a lot more CDs. That said, shaman does have a few too many now with the new totem, etc
I'm so happy to see that someone else realizes that Holy Priest isn't an easy spec anymore.
Yeah, it was back in the day but then every spec was easy at some point :)
i just wish they would do something with mobility.. only reason i dont play it as i mained it this expansion
I'd like to see this list, but just the number of effective healing abilities. So anything that only damages, or cleanses, or buffs are not counted, only things that heal or give procs to do better healer.
Like the number of buttons needed in an ideal world where you didn't need to move or do damage, only heal.
Good call but that would be subjective as well (as this list is). I opted for "buttons that you press in combat" but if we just go with healing ones we'd run into some weird situations. For example, resto shaman casts of Lava Burst (pure damaging ability) but your next healing surge. So do we count it as a button? And then do you count Flame Shock as a button as it gives you free Lava Burst procs? We'd need to create very robust set of rules before counting :)
4 heals + 2aoe heals + 2 major cooldowns should do it. The rest could be damage reduction/CC and some other utility. 14 Buttons at most.
14 feels like too little and could end up being boring fast but at the end of the day, it all depends on the implementation :)
All of them are extremely bloated in my opinion. I counted the keybinds on my shadow priest and I got 25. And Shadow is considered a spec with a lot of buttons to press. So something like warrior or hunter will have 15-20 keybinds.
Yeah, that seems to be the trend - everything is button bloated :(
I don't play warrior but occasionally I run shadow and BM hunter, may be I'm doing it wrong but their button bloat doesn't seem as bad for some reason. May be because I'm used to playing things like resto shaman and hpal :D
28-32 button is definitely where they should be designing class around, imo. Theres absolutely no reason to above that number imo, less sure but never above.
Complexity does not come only from the number of buttons but also from interactions and effects from pressing the buttons. So having a limit on the amount of buttons is not necessarily going to help but it will at least make them think when designing how to use these buttons. Right now there's 40+ buttons that a druid can press which is insane imo so yeah, a cap around 30ish sounds fair
Resto shammie/druid has a ton of utility i, as a disc priest, would love to have. So i will take some more buttons pls.
Totally agree, disc compared to anything else in that regard feels so much different!
Pres and Disc are two of the three hardest healers...but have the least buttons.
Hpriest and Rshaman are two of the easiest healers but have the most buttons
and resto druid is one of the hardest healers with the most buttons haha
Yep, I did mention that at the end, poor druids! Totally agree there with your assessment :)
Yes, they need to reduce the number of buttons to click
Agreed! Especially for some classes :)
Can't wait to play that MW monk!
You can do so now during S4 and on beta, but yeah, I get you. Soon!
razer mouse solved for me "button bloat" issue xD
I mean, it helps, I use it too but the button bloat is still there! It only helps a bit with the key binds ;)
A significant drop in buttons would be super boring. Too many is annoying too little is suspicious.... GREAT UPLOAD!
Yeah, the question is what is that golden number where everything is perfect :)
@@thelegendbehindthecow Looking for a perfect number might be like trying to count stars....LOL
@@Duck4Evers Fair statement! There's no number at all right now though so.... may be they can start somewhere and go from there :)
@@thelegendbehindthecow I watch a Ton of wow content creators and I got to say you take a fresh approach and your uploads are very thorough!.....I run three healers every season mainly Resto Shaman, Holy Pally and Misty.....I purposely didn't do beta so your content really comes in handy and that your TOTALLY Resot Sham Bias!!!!..lol
@@Duck4Evers Haha, thank you very much for the kind words. And yes, rsham bias is definitely a thing although I do try to have more neutral point of view when doing comparison and tier lists.... and I'm probably failing on that :)
i have not watch the video yet, I find rshammy the most button bloated after rework. Let 's see if I m right
Yeap, can be a lot depending on build, earthliving weapon,mana tide totem, bulwark totem,poison totem, totemic projection, skyfury buff...
There's a bit of subjectiveness when counting buttons as for example I don't think we need to include things like "Far Sight". No matter how you count though, shaman is definitely in the top of the list. Let's hope those future changes that they promised addresses that.
Poso has opinions on your opinions, hope your doing good, sometimes im raid leader, now im putting in you in charge be a good leader
Posooooooooo, I'm doing quite well sir, hope it's the same with you! Unfortunately my leading skills are as good as those of the professors, so that won't end well. And since the role is vacant, may be consider it =)
Can you please do this for DPS!? Great video!
Hm, I could try but there are a few classes and many specs that I don't play at all so I might end up counting buttons that I shouldn't
Shadow priest has around 25 can be more or less depending on some talent choices.
@@MrkraZzz Yeah, 25 is actually much less than what you get, let's say as Resto Shaman. I don't know how it compares against other dps specs though. May be time to explore this and make a video about the DPS button count :)
Is this for M+ only?
The specs that I used were for M+, yes, but generally the amount of buttons doesn't change that much for raid (there are exceptions of course). Usually you drop something to get something else so the raid values should be close to the M+ ones
I played MW to 3350 this season and am looking at rsham this expansion. I feel like the class has too much cooldown bloat overall.
I love MW and I think that's the class with the least amount of cooldowns (along with disc prolly) so if you switch to anything else, then you will definitely feel it has a lot more CDs. That said, shaman does have a few too many now with the new totem, etc