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Marshall Origin 20 H | Part 4 : But Does It Marshall? A Tech's Perspective
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- Опубликовано: 15 авг 2024
- Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:53 Hiss & Bleed
2:33 Who Is This Amp For?
3:20 Plexi? Really?
5:29 Clean Playing
6:32 Lack of Low End
6:53 Master Volume Issues
7:48 Variable Voltage
9:27 Will It Hang With A Drummer?
10:38 But Does It Marshall Though?
13:50 Headfirst Mods Worth It?
14:14 Other Amps Worth Looking At
15:09 Is This A Biased Review?
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Just got my Origin 20C - I crank it using an attenuator along with an SD-1 for a clean boost; very happy with the 70s rock tones I am able to get. I love this amp exactly for that!
Hi, which attenuator are you using ? A passive one or active. I am looking to buy one but don’t know what is best
Indeed what attenuator do you have?
@@kimedmond5377 Bugera PS1 Power Soak
@@coolelbow123 I use the same attenuator for other amps, 5W to 20W. Works great!
I was going to get the Bugera power soak but I was worried about the wattage rating because I don't have any amps under 30 watts that I would use an attenuator on.
All me big dog amps are 50-60 watts or more !
I think it sounds pretty good.
"...a sense of authority" Beautiful. For me, that is almost the perfect description of that Marshall tone.
Jason from Headfirst here, thanks for the mention. I agree with everything you set out here!
Like your work Jason and the company you keep. Burgs and Leslie, two old mates from Oz.
@@andrewcichon3037 hey Andrew, thank you. High praise coming from you mate. Top blokes those two are!
@@andrewcichon3037 👍🏻
@@jasonktong1 Lyle does all of my work. He's a wiz. Check out AC30 from Hell, Pacemaker, Park 150 and Laney Supergroup 50. HNY from NYC.
Please don’t be discouraged by this review. I just got this amp today and plugged it into a peavy 1x12 closed back cabinet with a celestion vintage 30 speaker. Turned the treble to 3, mids on 6, base, tilt presence on 5, volume on 1 This is on mid output and gain all the way up. It sounds great! Add a tube screamer type pedal and it’s even better. You can Get any classic rock sounds easily. If you want soaring lead tones you will need a gain pedal. Plugged my reverb, delay and screamer into the front of the amp. Did not try using the effects loop, but everything sounded great straight into the front.
On full power it is just awesome. Very full and dynamic. On mid power you can play at home levels without sacrificing tone. On the high power mode it is a little too loud for home, unless your neighbors aren’t home or you have good windows!!! My phone decibel app showed 60-86 on mid power on volume 1. On high power on a little less than one it showed 100 db.
I've had mine for quite a bit. Initially I was frustrated with the tone. However the key is master volume all the way up and gain to taste lol. I have the gain at around 8. I also use an attenuator. The secret key is the treble. Turn the treble all the way off or at 1. This gives you Clapton Cream tones, Zeppelin tones, Free tones, blues etc
Absolutely, this is what I do with mine and I think it sounds great with my LP's and Tele. The Tele gets great snappy cleans with it too.
I'm scarrd by this video
I've listed to this video multiple times because I got my hand on an Origin 50C and i appreciate an honest review from a tech perspective. What im hearing is more opinion than tech. It's like comparing why my base Corvette isn't a Corvette Z06 and therefore, my corvette sucks. The truth is, though it falls short of being a Z06, the base corvette is still a great car. Maybe things are different with the 20 watt version, but the 50 watt is fantastic so much so that after I got the combo, I soon after purchased the head and got a 2x12 Jet City cab. If you want bass response, get a decent speaker cab. I play mostly progressive blues. I don't particularly want a booming, low-end response. Guitar is supposed to occupy the guitar frequency spectrum. Not compete with the bass guitar frequencies. All of that makes the Origin 50 sit really well in the live mix. The Origin doesn't do what my Bad Cat Lynx can do or my Fender Hot Rod Deluxe or my Two Rock Studio Plus, but none of these amps can do what my Origin 50 can do. The Origin takes pedals extremely well, has amazing clean tone and punch, and is plenty loud. While I appreciate this review, and yours are some of the best I watch, maybe try the 50 Watt through a decent speaker cab and focus on the tone you are getting from the amp as opposed to this amp not sounding like a Plexi. This amp will NEVER sound like a plexi because it's not a plexi so why draw the comparison and potentially miss out on what this amp is good at?
@@tboneousmaximus7963this guy is talking bollocks the origin is a great amp, especially for the money. you could spend 4x as much on an amp and get at best 1.4x the tone
@@michaelstankiewitch5391Don't be scared, this tech just doesn't like Marshall, that's all.
Lyle, I'm so glad that you shoot straight on these amps that fall very short of their heritage. I am also glad that you give shout outs to other channels that offer fixes (Headfirst) and companies that offer better alternatives (Ceriatone). It's about time people opened their eyes and stopped paying for nameplates and brand loyalty (not just for amplifiers). Because as long as folks pay for substandard, these companies will continue to produce substandard products in the name of corporate profit.
As a side note, I have an Origin 20 head and 2x12 cab that I intend to perform the Headfirst mods on. It was for sale, head, cab and all for $200.
I have the 50 head and I think it's fantastic. Not to ruffle any feathers but I put it right up there with my 2 plexis, Super Lead and JTM50. It has grind. I crank the master and everything except tilt and gain and I get very satisfying tone.
You have a JTM50??? A very rare amp that's worth around $10k? Hmmm...
If you actually do have such an amp, I cannot for the life of me understand WHY, why, you would get a cheap Origin that isn't in the same hemisphere as a JTM50? And please, please tell me that you're not using another bargain basement product - a Bugera power soak with it.
Someone who owns a JTM50 is a caretaker, in the vein of someone who owns a '59 Les Paul, or a '54 Strat.
@@stratolestele7611 easy. Maybe he doesn't wanna take his expensive amps to a shady bar or wants an amp and he can throw around and be careless with. Not that hard to understand
@stratolestele7611 Maybe he likes the sound of it and wants to leave his vintage amps at home. Nothing hard to understand here at all.
@@stratolestele7611 The JTM50 is a clone. I never said originals. Nothing wrong with the spec on that build either. NOS tubes, quality transformers. I saw/heard a vid with two guitarists doing a head to head demo of a vintage JMP with the OR50 and similar results. There's a similar vid from a youtuber with a popular channel, where he's comparing his OR50 with his JCM800 and the difference is slight.
Also that attenuator you spoke about is not a bad product either and there are those who agree. Just because something is a bargain doesn't rule it out as a decent piece of equipment.
@stratolestele7611 JTM50 clones are not rare lmao. “B-b-but it’s not official!!!!” So what? It sounds the same.
I have the origin 20 head dude you have to dial your tone in. All I can say is mine sounds great.
I have an origin 20C myself and absolutely love it
Good to hear! I'm not being snarky. If you love it, great.
I’d love to see a series on amps this channel loves because aside from an AC-15 (excepting the custom classic version I was about to purchase) the reviews tend to be negative. Not being snarky either by the way. It is refreshing though from the plethora of demo channels where everything is great and wonderful.
I had an origin 20h. I would turn the master and the gain all the way up. Then i would control the volume with the power switching. I always thought it sounded great.
It's a good sounding amp for the pricetag. I use it as my theremin amp in a Zeppelin tribute and it's perfect. Loud enough as it gets 🎤 anyway and it competes well enough with a drummer even a heavy handed one. I have a 1959HW Plexi as my guitar amp and no the origin does not compare to that but I will gladly use the origin as a spare amp if my real Plexi ever goes down on stage. I can get great tone out of it especially when combined with an echoplex. Techs probably hate hearing the old phrase but I'm sorry, it's true: "Most of your tone comes from your hands, not your gear" you can play a cheap Epiphone LP into an Origin 20 and if you're a good player you can absolutely make it sound like an R9 into a vintage 68 Plexi. At least well enough to convince most people.
I, just heard maybe 4 demos from 4 different people on the origins 50 and 20 and they all sounded really good, they were also using 4x12 cab's
Its absolutly wrong to get the master all the way up in these amps, the master volume helps just a tiny bit to get a fat tone, instead get the gain knob pass 6 ( thats whats gets you a very alive touch sensitive fat tone ) and master to taste depending if you are shooting for clean or overdrive sound, get the treble not higher than 2, presence not higher than 2, bass around 5 -7 for humbuckers and 7 and above for single coils, and mids 5 and above for everything
This is a Marshall Super Bass mini, not a Plexi, you can get it close to a Plexi but this amp was designed after a 1967 Marshall SUper Bass which in my humble opinion is the best Marshall ever tone wise, and according to many people is what Hendrix really used in the studio back in the 60s along with some Fender amps, but who knows for sure
This amp clean sounds is wayyyyyy better than Marshall Studio Vintage made in England, and takes pedals better than any other Marshall I had over the years ( and I had a lot ) and the parts and built quality is EXACTLY THE SAME as the made in England ones, is like they use the sames parts in both amps just the Origin is assembled in Vietnam and the others in England, dont believe me ??? watch this video -------- ruclips.net/video/926gpboibs8/видео.html
This amp sounds AMAZING !!!! IF YOU KNOW HOW TO DIAL IT UP PROPERLY, just take sometime tweeking the damn thing and you will see
Anyways thanks a bunch for taking the time to make this video
If I could post GIFs here I would Willy Wonka you so hard.
@@PsionicAudio hey man thank you very much !!!
A couple of things. For whatever reason, at least in my experience, this amp gets fizzy when the master is dimed like you have done throughout a lot of the video. It also sounds very thin with the preamp set low even with the master turned up. So it's finicky in terms of how the two volumes interact with each other. You also need the right cab for it. So as long as you have the amp set up right there are a few really great sounds to be found in this amp. Just look around youtube and you can find some examples. Anyway for an amp that cost me 380 USD new I think it's a pretty great amp for the price point.
it cost less than most Marshall amps being serviced. Incredible value.
Makes sense considering it's a master volume amp it's probably meant to raise the preamp volume and have the master on like one
Totally agree, Gain up at least 65-80% and master volume to taste from there. TIlt to taste for brightness/tone.
Pretty much all I ever adjust. Sounds great like that.
Where are you finding these for $380 USD??? 😅😅
@@AudaciousAce1989 Off of Amazon lol but this was a few years back. Not finding them for those prices anymore unfortunately.
ok... 2 things
A. Doesn't sound bad in this video(or many others where people are using it thus-ly, as you are, master cranked. Hint: needs a PPIMV ;-) ).
B. I have the 20w head, and I don't know how you can sit next to it and play it on the 20w setting without ear defenders/plugs, or an attenuator? Are you using an attenuator?
I have to have it on the medium setting at band practice because I drown everyone else out, I blast my drummer out (tbf, he can tame himself quite well, but he's a rock drummer and can hit hard if he wants to.... Still, he doesn't like me been on the high setting, and tells me to turn down....)
So, sorry, I disagree with your prognosis, based on my own experience, but I
have enjoyed these videos, and have learnt a lot. Thank you, :-)
Good or bad compared to what? Loud compared to what?
I have a very large sample size of amps for comparison.
Yeah.... I have the problem that I just cant crank the master enough to get a good sound without killing the band at the rehearsal room....
And I do play medium clubs with the medium power setting.
I don't know either how can he just sit beside the amp like that, mine would blow my ears ...
Is it louder than a twin reverb? no.... but I cant even use the twin in 90% of the locations we play.... Its WAY 2 loud and sounds like shit at low volume lol
Seriously. I have this amp and since I suck and live in a quiet neighborhood, I rarely turn it on unfortunately. I think it sounds great turned up, but a quiet marshall is not a happy marshall in my experience. One day ill crank it up! Origin is good enough for me
@@PsionicAudio So do I most are vintage and there is nothing wrong with the Origin 20c that a tube change and Greenback 10 speaker won't put right.
thankyou for providing a reality check on this post, it is loud enough , its a pedal platform ,and these days when the gig is big ,you mic it up....im tryin not to call this guy names ,but hes clearly being a dick about it.
Thanks for the deep info about this amp. I own one, and I think I’ll be taking it to the local tech to get any problems or potential problems addressed before they become catastrophic.
Gotta say, every tone you’re getting from the amp sounds absolutely the business to my ears. It reinforces why I love the sound of mine!
I got two of the Origin 20s with a pair of 2-12 cabinets to use as stereo affects right&left channels for my 1974 JMP Super Lead 100 as the main dry amp
I would say the trouble with a plexi, is that it was later used in a way that it wasn't originally designed for, to achieve a certain sound. That being the case, everything had to be tweaked counterintuitive to a purpose built design. What Jason at Headfirst does makes more since to me. I don't think Marshall intended for this to be a plaxi, because the made another low wattage amp for that.
I have one of these, have had great luck with it. So much so, my buddy loved mine, and bought one. His was a dud that sounded more like this video. I wonder if there's some quality control issues, or the design has drifted over the years. Idk. I just know mine does great work in my studio, and isn't worth enough to sell off. Ha ha
For context, it sits on a shelf with a Friedman, a deluxe reverb, a matchless dc30 and a vox handwired ac30. The origin doesn't have much range in sounds it does well, but it does it's "thing" pretty decently.
I had one for about a week and it was a turd ... kind of made me go negative on Marshall amps
@@WayneMemphisMojo it seems they're hit or miss. Not a great attribute.
Same here. I tried an Origen20 next to a 20w DSL in a shop. I could not get the fizz out of the DSL while the origen had none of that, was quite ballsy and only started to overdrive a good way up the dial which is what i like. The Origen in this video is very fizzy and does indeed sucks in tone. Go figure..
I have the combo version with110". Not fond of 10's so I run a 12" ext cab Love it. Sounds like my 78 50w and is 9 lbs less
One thing Marshall has always been very open about is that this model was designed as a pedal platform. If you buy it for Marshall tones "out of the box" you'll be disappointed. But I think you can get good tones with this amp and your pedals (I mean gain pedals)
I agree on this. I almost never use mine without something in front of it. I've got some good "rock" sounds like late 70's Heart with a joyo (I know I know) sweet baby pedal, and got some pretty cool Police/Andy Summers tones when I back off on the gain and master volume a tick and add some modulation effects and a bit of delay. .
Okay - if you say so, but while Marshall talks about using pedals with this amp, they do say "The classically styled single channel amps generate rich and harmonic tones that are ideal for players to explore new possibilities and craft their sound."
They're just not good amps.
@StratoLesTele I guess that's your opinion. They're inexpensive, no doubt, and I wouldn't call it magical, but mine is still on my amp shelf next to a Friedman ds mini, soldano slo, ac30 hardwired, tone king imperial and matchless dc30. It has its own thing that makes it worth keeping. I wonder if you've owned one. 🤔
@@stratolestele7611 are they a plexi or 2,000 dollar amp? Lol no. But it targets a certain market and does a damn good job at it.
When I got mine I thought is sounded shimmery and Fender like. That did not make me happy. Of course I did not play it full blast because You know, neighbors. But once I put a tube screamer and an overdrive pedal on it, oh my dear Lord this thing became a beast! I am thrilled with this amp, (i have six amps) and it is perfect. Now one day I will take it to my friends place in the country and play it naked at full blast (with a very long jack) just to hear it break up fully. Not a Plexi sound? Everyone else seems to think so but this guy. I think he is biased against amps made in Asia.
I see comments all over the internet about the origins that make shake my head in disbelief. There seems to be a specific type of origin owner that think they are the only ones who know how to dial an amp in or think they are the only ones who know how a vintage Marshall is supposed to sound . A comment I see alot is if you don't like the Origin amps then you don't like vintage Marshall's or if you don't like the origin you don't like Marshall's period.
It's like saying if you don't like 1 flavor of ice cream then you don't just don't like ice cream or better yet if you don't like non dairy ice cream then you don't like ice cream. Because the origin is like the non dairy ice cream veriosn of a Marshall amp . It's the non Marshal Version of a vintage Marshall
Another one that blows my mind is all vintage Marshall's sounded that way or the low end always sounded like that on a vintage Marshall . None of the people who say those things have first hand experience with any vintage plexi type amps
none of these issues on mine. have to run my Bass on about 2. and it meters at 116dB through my Marshall 1965A.
Think you got a lemon. This sounded pretty plexi to me in person. However, even I can hear the low-end response over yt. The low end was woofy in person, but I was running through celestion 70/80s.
"Plexi tone". The creamy overdrive harmonic overtone from chords played on a Les Paul plugged straight into a cranked Marshall 50 or 100 watt 'plexi'. That's pretty much it. That tone can be derived from any number of El34 based amps or from pedals but...plug it in to an old plexi and crank the knobs to 10. That's it. I think that's what people mean. I used to do that with my old JTM45. Just keep turning it up and as long as you're blowing through a Celestion vintage loaded cab? It just keeps sounding better till you 'blow' your eardrums. That's pretty much it, Lyle! LoL
Plexi tone is just pre hi-gain era Marshall tone - Zero dependant on a Les Paul, haha. To me the best Plexi tone is with a Strat neck pickup set to edge of breakup! 😃
Really nice job on this series. I had a 20H for about a year. It was fine for bedroom playing. And it sounded pretty good with high-end pedals for gain, reverb, and delay. There were no technical issues. But the amp was just kind of sterile. It seemed to lack the spirit that most amps have.
Sounds like you got a dud, I have the 20 watt combo and it sounds great, especially plugged into my 2 cheap Marshall code412 4x12 cabs suprisingly. Plenty of bottom end too when cranked, like being punched in the chest standing in front of the quadboxes.
Yeah I agree completely I also have this amp and don't experience any of these problems at all. It's a great amp lol
I have a 1x12 with a creamback (closed cabinet) and the origin sounds incredible through it. It’s also LOUD.
My O20H sounds miles above this one. i put a DB meter on it and it was saying 116dB through my Marshall 1965A (4x10). that should keep up with most bands.
I agree with you, I have this head and I love it. I'm running it through a 4-12 cab and mostly on the low setting and I thoroughly enjoy it. And believe it or not when I want clean tones I A/B switch over to my Bugera 20 watt. I don't want to knock this guy but he found sounds a little spoiled
Yeah I have a mgfx 4x12 and honestly for have spending 200 bucks on the cab it's not too shabby
I ran across your channel a few days ago and I've been mesmerized ever since. I'm really enjoying watching and listening to you doing your work. I'm a 63 year old man and I've been playing guitar since I was 13, not great though I'm afraid, lol.
I'm not an amp tech, far from it, I know very little about amps, I change tubes that's about it. But I love tube amps and have owned them and enjoyed all my life.
I am perhaps a fanboy for Marshall amps going back to my teenage years. I was in a Rock band in high school in the 70s and loved the Marshalls from that era. I own a few low wattage Marshalls currently, unfortunately they are modern Marshalls not vintage.
I do own one of Marshalls newer, (2019), Studio amps, the Jcm800 Studio Lead Series. It has brought back some fine memories for me. I'm assuming you haven't seen one come across your bench as they are just coming out of warranty this year.
These Made in England Studios, two in particular, the SC20, Studio Classic 20, (which I own), is a 20/5 watt Jcm800, modeled after their 2203 model. The other one, SV20, Studio Vintage 20, is a 20/5 watt Plexi, modeled after their 1959 SL.
These Studios are great replications of their big brothers, Thet really do sound like the originals, as much as possible being only 20 watts. I can tell you these are the LOUDEST 20 watt amps I've ever heard!
I'm looking forward to hearing your impressions of these newer Studio offerings from Marshall.
You're on the money brother. Those 20w SVs are in an entirely different world than these Origins.
And of course, for those of us who understand Marshalls, they are only made in England Fer cryin' out loud! They have that beautiful, unmistakable smell. I love it!
I like mine. I built a closed back cab and loaded it with 2 G12M's. I gotta say the thing rocks with the 20 head. Throaty, silky, whichever one ya want.
Great breakdown of what the Marshall Origin 20 is and is not.
For myself the Marshall tone I recognize is the result of the Cathode-Follower tone stack.
I ended up converting a 1990s 1987x to older Marshall Specs by changing to a different Transformer which dropped my output to a measured 38W.
Overall I'm very pleased with the single trick my one-trick pony performs.
You got yourself a dud there dude. I have the 50w combo, snarls like a beast with plenty of low end
Wasn't my amp. A client's. This is after the fix. The one I tried in a music store sounded the same.
I've heard people say the Origin 50 sounds better than the Origin 20.
I haven't played the 50, but it could only sound better.
@@PsionicAudio Got a good deal on a second hand Origin 20, bought it for 200 euros. It was an impulse purchase but I wanted a more vintage sound, which I could not get out of my Jubilee or DSL. I was not a fan at first so I had a tech do the headfirst(JCM-800 style) mod to mine. The mod was done by a tech who used to work for the Golden Earring and rewired their VOX after it had caught on fire.
Anyways, after the mod the amp did sound a lot better but still had a weak EQ-section. I found out that I was looking for the spongyness a plexi has, which an Origin does not have. Using my Love Pedal Purple plexi and Greenback IR's I do get some good recording tones out of it, but the amp is still noisy though. All in all after the mod I had spent less money than a new Origin costs, but I should have just bought an sv20 instead.
Did you have a look at the Headfirst Origin 20 Plexi mod, and what are your thoughts?
Great Review! Thx, I swapped the first 12AX, or ECC for an older 12bz7 and it re defined the 2nd order harmonics. Which I believe is the sound most are going for and the most "Marshall" sound. Although I also think that this amp was created for users who like to use the FX loop, and or pedals. It simply does not have the DSL / JCM gain structure for sure, but I'm happy that it is a different breed. It's not a Plexi as you mentioned for sure. Even so, It's still a Marshall, just not as much as most people thought it was going to be.
I appreciate Psionic not gushing over this amp like most channels do. It’s important to know what you are getting. However, this amp “sounds” as good as or better than many competitors on a mic (at least the combo version does).
The Blackstars Psionic is raving about here might sound great in a room, but mic one and record it, or through a PA live, and it’s mud and bass. Andertons channel inadvertently has a great example of this doing a shootout of small amps. It also tends to sound good even on amateur channels with poor recording gear and techniques. That’s worth a lot imho.
Ymmv… I don’t own one, but it does tend to sound pretty good recorded.
When have I ever gushed about a Blackstar? I loathe the things.
@@PsionicAudio my thoughts reading this. Did this fella watch the same video as I did?
@@PsionicAudio "some of the stuff Blackstar has out will kill this thing" is your direct quoted comment in the video. That is all he is referring to.
For what it's worth, I like your work but like others here in the comments, disagree with your impressions on the Origin 20.
I think in today's environment where 50-100 watt monsters are just not able to be used properly (for the most part) it is a great, versatile 20-watt amp. Having had the SV20, DSL 20, DSL 5, Slash 5, Class 5, AC4's, various AC30's, and many, many other amps over the years.
Master at more than 8 also doesn't work.
P.S I also don't like anything Blackstar to date. They just don't sound or feel right to me.
Also just found this....Pretty good sound. To my ears anyway.
ruclips.net/video/dkCKPJvuHTM/видео.html&ab_channel=SRGuitar
@@marksvideochannel3592 I took that as in - no gushing over the Blackstar, but just saying that their 20w offering kills the Origin. I think he's entirely right about that. I'm not a Blackstar fan, but what they do in the 20w realm is a far sight better than the Origin 20.
Wasn't so bad. I bought the 50 watt version, found a used one for a great price, but I returned it after a week. Just couldn't get a good sound through my 212 or 412 Marshall cab's. I prefer the sounds from my Bugera g20 that has 2 channels, reverb, and cost less
I love my 50H that I run into 2x12 100w cabs but you do have to redial according to guitar and pedal combinations. Best bit was it was only £365 in a black Friday deal when it came out. Its also a million times better than the DSL40 Twin...
Thanks for clarifying about “The Plexi” tone. I’ve heard so many different examples of The Plexi tone and began to think it is something I just wasn’t hearing correctly 🤣. And speaking of Plexi... thanks for all of the advice in the Plexi Palace forum regarding the now legendary AC30cc mod thread’s you were a big help back then.
I played an Origin 20 head and though it was decent turned up over half then plugged in the 50 and it surprised the hell out of me. I had it plugged into a studio vintage 2x12 vertical closed back. Great sounding head. The 50 was much better and a great value especially on the used market. You do have to dial them in right. The 50 was very loud so maybe an attenuator is needed.
My sounds awesome with a boost 👍
I had one of these, tried really hard to like it, luckily got rid of it. Got a Ceriatone 50w plexi clone for my Marshall tones and it proves that nothing beats the classic topology of a plexi.
I have one, and it is very good.
The mushy fuzzy bottom end is what kills it for me. Marshalls need to have that tight percussive bottom end
I know that "warm" and "Marshall" aren't allowed to be used in the same sentence but it's a sound I have heard, sought, and found. You might call it "brown" or something but the older I get the less I like guitars that sound like broken glass or chainsaws. I should do a couple of amp demos sometime. That Origin sounds like a cheap practice amp you get in a guitar/amp package for $150.
I agree with you Greg, as I get older (going to be 60 next year) I tend to gravitate more towards the 5e3 tone and less of the (as you say) "broken glass or chainsaw) tones. And to be honest, those tones can easily be had with just about any amp good or bad by using a pedal (RAT Pedal comes to mind).
For myself, cranking my amplifier till the side-harmonics start getting amplified and passed along with he main signal are what I prefer.
When single notes sound musical and multidimensional with bloom. Each amplifier has a sweet spot and that is about it, trying to make one amp do it all is just not possible (from my point of view).
ruclips.net/video/aFwTPNgKiLE/видео.html sounds AWESOME to me !
How about those UK made Marshall 20 watt El34 amps SV20, Jubillee,etc.?
I’ve had a DSL 5 for a bit more than a year and wonder if this is a similar design, for the classic channel anyway. The problems described remind me of how I feel about my amp. However I’ve been able to dial in good sounds, just takes more time and effort than other amps I’ve had in the past, and changing guitars and/or pedals requires some pretty drastic knob turning.
I upgraded the speakers and swapped out some preamp tubes and now it’s rounder, fuller, more bass and less fizz.
I guess I don’t know what a real Marshall sounds like but I’ll never need more than 20 Marshall watts, but I do like what I get from my amp. It really gets those Hendrix, Beck, Clapton tones at a reasonable volume, and doesn’t cost half a year’s salary!
I play my Origin 50 mid power settings, low power sounds 'not as good'.
Maybe if you played your guitar I could tell what it really sounds like. Hitting a few cords especially when your not playing the same test riffs. Hard to get a real impression. Thanks for trying though.
Had a punk rock band come through one of the venues I mix at (550 cap theatre), and one of the guitar players had the 50 watt combo in mid power mode, master up at 8, pointed directly at me at FOH. There was absolutely no bottom end to the amp, and it was so loud that I couldn't really put much of it in the PA and fatten it up that way... all in all, not a great time... lol
“Plexi tones maaaan!” 🤣 Nice Gear Page burn, and totally true. It’s mostly nerds who don’t know how to play and collect musical equipment as trophies and parrot what each other says.
Did we just become best friends?
Whatever the origin is it sure ain't Plexi tone of any variety . Not that the DSls sound like vintage Marshall's but I had much better luck getting Quasi vintage Marshall tones out of My DSl 5CR and 40CR then i did out of my Origin 20 when I owned all 3 at once . I had the origin for 6 weeks and it's long gone.
My theory with these amps is a lot of people don't even know what a marshall sounds like anymore. They probably get it confused with Peavey and Tweed fender, and whatever else existed in the 1970s and 80s on various records. That's my theory behind it because none of these cheap Marshalls have the snarl. But when you get that snarl it's good for one thing and one thing only. Like I built a 2203 style preamp played with it for like an hour and put it away. It's not a bad sound but it's almost cliche.
I have this amp, bought during pandemic for practicing. I also have a jcm 800, 900, and a little artist 3203 30 watt. I see everyone diming the output volume on this amp. The origin cannot take this, while my other marshalls can. Around 7 is where they're happy. That said, I find in reality it's a myth that any dimed old plexi of any type/model sounds good dimed. Falls apart, gets blurry and unfocused. Yes, they need to be past 5, but you need to listen for "collapse". For me, the little origin sounds best with treble on 2, presence on 4 or so (maybe a little less), bass at 5, mids at 4-5, no pull out on the gain knob, and the gain at 6 or 7. For dirty rhythm anyway. The output sounds like ass beyond 7 for me, and 6 is about all she can take before falling apart. I've gotten some decent sounds from it, not as chunky as an 800. Not as good as a jmp50, but you can get decent sounds if you know these things, and know what it can and can't do. Honestly, the little 3203 is a great amp. On it's clean channel, cranked, it can get that hendrix sound in spades, and is a hybrid SS with tube back end. Go figure. I do agree, the lower b+ in the origin is part of it's downfall, and also not sure they could have used a fully variable pot to lower the output volume. I believe they're using plate voltage reduction to achieve lower volume, but don't quote me. 250 is already low enough man., Maybe they could put some kind of L pad to make the output variable though. I have to say also, that SOME of what you were getting sounded good to really good in this vid. It fell apart for me though, when ya dimed the output. I was like yup...there's that crap sound. The sound of crapping out. What I call "collapse". No headroom because of reduced plate voltage! Great video, appreciate it. Also, not a bad player man. Keep em coming.
Mine sounds fine, especially with boost engaged. I have 50 years of gigging and touring experience and the Origin 20 compares very favourably with my unusably loud Marshall Lead & Bass 50, made in 1974. Perhaps they prefer to be run at 240 volts, which we have in Europe. Three to four years’ use out of an amp? What do you do to them? I agree that Blackstar is pretty good gear - the company was set up by ex-Marshall people and one of my friends is a director.
That's another thing I noticed is that people in the UK seem to like the sound of Orgin Marshall and the sound samples from the UK seem to sounds better !
I'm in US and mine sounds killer.
In my experience, if you want a cheap 60s Marshall tone, the PRS HDRX 20 is the way to go. Especially with an attenuator like a THD Hotplate
The only thing that I get from reading all the comments on this video is that a significant number of people have dysfunctional hearing.
Yes on the Headfirst mods.
Just don't kill yourself doing it.
icwutudidthar
My O20 sounds great. I totally disagree with guy. If you can’t dial in a good tone with this amp, then there’s something wrong with it. And it’s more than loud enough.
The Origin series are _____. I did mod one for a friend with V1A and V1B cathode to 2k7 and .68, coupling cap to 2n2, and fixed depth 4n7 and 220K. It did make it better.
I just can't see why anyone would go with an Origin when you could get a DSL100HR or DSL40CR? Those are really solid amps and they are super versatile. And there's no doubt they sound like a Marshall. I've found a few design flaws with my DSL100HR but overall it's the best iteration of DSL yet. And of course there's the 20 watt and lower DSL's if that's all you want or can afford. I just personally never felt like the Origin was a worthwhile amp to buy sadly. But if someone bought one and they love it to pieces that's wonderful and I'm thrilled that's the case. And I could be totally wrong but this is just my opinion without having owned an Origin. In fact I've only played through one at lower volume briefly before moving on to test out a used Orange TH30 which held my attention MUCH better.
I think the point is vintage Marshall tones vs. the high gain sounds typically associated with Marshall.
Doesn’t sound like either. I restore real Marshalls.
@@PsionicAudio Maybe yours didn't, but there's a lot of people that work on those amps and a lot of people that disagree with you.
Have fun with that master volume that eats up all the preamp gain then. And enjoy the sound of the dropping resistors not being rated for the current through them.
See my other Marshall videos and the two others I did on that Origin for a more complete picture.
I bought the 50c for clean headroom. I never even got it loud enough at the center to hear the drive tones (which sound nice for early 70s stuff) While I was waiting for GC to send me a new amp with a FS and all, i found a vox ac15 at a pawn shop. Once the marshall arrived i was already playing the vox for several days. I was then able to compare them side by side. I don't know anything about marshall authority and such, but next to the vox it just can't hold up in stock form anyway, imo. It sounds thin and the mids are hopeless. Im sure a different speaker would help, but why spend the extra coin when I could just take it back and get an amp i like more? It's not a bad amp at all. I mean, I bought the damn thing right? It would have been fine if I hadn't acquired the vox in tge mean time and been able to shoot out the two next to each other. I can get any sound from the vox that i can get from the marshall plus a dozen more. The reverse is definitely not true. I can not get my stock 50c to get the same full sounding tones as my vox achieves, whether clean or with a drive pedal. It's not a bad sound, just not as good as my $400 pawn shop find.
Original plexos didn't feature pre-amp gain. Origins 20 and 50 feature a pre-amp gain.
You say it doesn't do the Cream tone yet there is a guy on here using Origin 20c getting the Beano and Cream tone without pedals. I've had a few Blackstar combo's and wasn't impressed they are not well made and also circuit diagrams are not available for any of there amps. So if they go wrong they have to go back to Blackstar for repair.
I see you mentioned Ceriatone. I am waiting for delivery of a Ceriatone and so many Marshall acolytes shunned me on “why would you want a clone of a real amp like Marshall”. Well, because I want a “modern made” amp that actually sounds good and is serviceable. Something I’ve yet to see from Marshall. Then I ask them what they mean using the word clone. They then say a copy cat that can’t come up with their own stuff. To which I reply “Oh! You mean like Marshall since Jim Marshall just modded then copied a Fender. So that makes Marshall a Fender clone”. That usually throws them into a tizzy.....then I laugh. 😂
This is exactly why my Blackface Deluxe clone is being handwired as I speak by a guy who's been building amps for several decades. The Fender handwired version is very nice but twice the cost and this guy's amp sound exactly the same without a fender logo. But I'm tired of old amps that are always in the shop, I want new stuff.
Id get a solid state Orange Crush for gigs in the 20 to 50 watt range if You want to do 80s stuff.
I bought one of these and came to the same conclusion. There is no turn down without losing the tone I want. Was able to return it. My DSL20H has great turn down with the master volume(s) and I was disappointed the Origin didn't have the same capability.
I've heard some pretty decent tones out of these amps and some pretty lame ones too. None of them are Plexi sounding at all. I got mine at a good deal and I've yet to dial a decent tone. I actually put a Wampler Plexi drive in front and it helps 😂 (sort of). I'm probably going to sell it and save up for one of the Studio series amps, do you have any thoughts on those?
Haha - I tried MANY pedals through the one I had - and one was a Wampler Plexi Drive! What are the chances?! 👍
I hope you found an amp that makes you happy. FWIW, I've been at this for many years, many amps, and the Marshall studios are the real thing for sure!
@@stratolestele7611 well now after learning more about the origin and studio series amps (same power amp as the origin I think) I'm not a fan of either. I think the origin could sound decent had they went with EL-84's or 6V6's. The studio series is definitely much better but when you crank them they still get harsh and farty due to the cold bias. I am actually now thinking of building a 18 watt TMB Marshall kit from Mojotone (jcm800 esque preamp, EL84 power amp, tube rectified) or even a JMP 2204 kit, and putting whichever one I do into the origin head cabinet 😂 thank you for your advice and well wishes, I hope you find gear that makes you happy as well!
Holy moly, completely torched this amp!! I thought I liked mine, but I guess I have terrible tastes in tone. I had a Ceriatone 1974x ef86 tmb...unfortunately, had to sell it. Ended up taking a chance on the Origin. Would I rather have my Ceriatone back? Sure. Very happy with the O20 until I can pony up for something hand-wired like a Ceriatone, or maybe a Studio Vintage/Classic. I concur with @Zeemuffenman, "very happy with the 70s rock tones I am able to get." But what do I know?🙉
If you like it just keep it :) no need to get something new just because you saw a video of a guy not liking his ;)
@@MaikeruSumisu Exactly my point.😎👍
I’m thinking it’s the fault of my modeler’s naming conventions, but to me a Plexi is a 1959slp, everything else is the actual model number. I’m not sure how universal this belief is but when I see people reference a “plexi” tone that’s the first thought in my mind.
I have a feeling all of those saying this thing sounds like a plexi or sounds “so good” have never played a real plexi. It’s like that old saying cheeseburgers are great until you have steak. If you are a beginner or one with plays as a once or twice a week hobby I guess it could be ok but if you want a “plexi” don’t be fooled by the cosmetics this amp is not a plexi. For a serious musician you will likely be disappointed by this amp get the Studio Vintage instead. You get what you pay for and owning one of the finest amplifiers ever created is not going to come in a cheap package there is a reason the most affordable true “plexi” the SV20 costs $1000 more but it is the real deal and a much higher quality English made true Marshall as it should be.
I don't know, why your origin 20h amp sounds teribble like that? since i watch the others sound demo in YT throught these things sounds amazing, but I appreciate your opinion about these amp..cheers
It's not my Origin 20. It was a client's in for service. This is what they sound like. I confirmed all voltages, measured output, checked all tubes, etc. It's performing exactly as designed.
The schematic is emphatic that this shall be the sound.
I could have EQd it, compressed it, added some delay, just the right reverb etc, and made it sound "great."
But that would be all frosting, no cake.
All of the comments in the review are totally on point. To further it you can dump the treble eq and get a somewhat better sound out of a Les Paul bridge pickup as others have done, but sonically it falls apart when you move to the neck pickup. In fact I defy someone to arrive at getting a really good neck pickup sound on a Les Paul out of this amp. Generally with an old school Marshall you will want to do this then adjust your bridge pickup by backing off the tone control on the guitar. Never going to get that far with this amp. Have given it considerable effort. I agree it’s not the real deal
@@michaelshields6585 I've Slash Bucker Pros in my Les Paul and the neck pup sounds incredible with this amp.
@@sixslinger9951 - Great that you are happy with it. If it works for your needs that’s all that matters really. However, all things being equal, and being an old Plexi guy myself, this circuit can somewhat imitate that sound but does not really at all perform like the real deal. Again I applaud those that are happy with it, in this case it represents an incredible value, but the comparison to a Plexi cannot be justified beyond the atheistics of the amp
I use mine with pedals and a 2X12 with greenbacks. It's a good amp, not great amp. It's got it's limits for sure. But then again, my JCM800 is not usable in lots of circumstances. But it's got that real Marshall push. The Origin, not so much. But i still like it.
@ 6:00 minutes, that amp sounds like Arse! What are Marshall thinking? I'd rather have a good clean Marshall like a 1974 or a 20 watter and plug in a good pedal like an Origin Revival Drive or a Carl Martin PlexiRanger.
I bought my O20h before Covid hit and just used it in my apartment for a little while so I never really noticed those particular issues that the amp you're showing has. Then I moved from South Florida to Rhode Island and it's been sitting in storage for the past 2 years. Now that I've watched your videos on it I'm gonna have to check it out again. What would you recommend for a replacement if that's the case? I want something that's gonna last longer than a laptop. I have a Marshall 1965A with 4x10 and it will be used for mostly blues/rock. Great channel, thanks for the content 👍
I have yet to try an amp below 40 watts with EL34 that I actually liked .. I have a DSl 5CR and a 40CR and I love both but really disliked the 20CR . I also much preferred the Origin 50 compared to the 20i liked the tone of the 50 quite a bit but it did not strike me as Plexi sounding in any way.
Ehh. What do you know. Mine sounds just fine. It’s loud and that’s all I need. Even at half power. No mods or effects. That’s what I figured. A Blackstar endorser. Now I know you don’t know jack. Everyone is an expert.
The V and Palomino series Crates are still one of the best values on the used market, besides the fact that they get hot as heII
For the Money Ceriatone are hard to beat . Great sounding amps .
It is sad that in today's market we cannot get a decently made amp from any of the big names. Boutique are the only option and that will run 3k for the head..... wish I never sold my JCM 800.
I really enjoyed your review. Would love to see a vid for the Class 5 if you have one.
Nice video. I'd be interested in hearing you play through something that sounds good to you for comparison.
Just about every other Marshall or Soldano video on the channel.
@@PsionicAudio Thanks so much!
I have a 20c like every Marshall I have used it has a couple good sounds and thats it. That's a Marshall thing to me more than Origin specific
Ah, the good old plexi tone argument. A lot like saying a pickup has a great PAF tone.
What are your thoughts on Marshall's DSL40 combo Amp? I have one I used to gig but since my Stroke I'm more a basement player. I Like the DSL it's louder than I really need now or when I was playing clubs. (heck most clubs won't let you crank a 20 watt amp now anyway at least not here in WV) is there any mods that will make it a better Amp without breaking the bank?
I am a bedroom/living room warrior and the origin did not make me happy
The Class 5 has a cathode follower, in the wrong position, but it has one... LOL. Thanks for the analysis and demo.
I guess a lot of people is upset that you can get a Marshallish sound from a 400 to 600 dollar amp, while dudes spent thousands for it.
I record with an origin 50 and everyone thinks I’m using Marshall.
that's because you are using a marshall
@@Baghdadbatterymusic Exactly! 😄
it is a Marshall. what the hell you talking about?
I just picked up a 50 watt. 350 bucks. It sounds terrible. I had intended to do some headfirst mods.
Maybe ill just do the mods, gut the pcb , sell it and handwire something in it.
I believe these brands intentionally make the entry level amps spund terrible so people buy the expensive ones...
The Origin with a good MIAB pedal sounds excellent. Better than a DSL.
Why would a Marshall need a MIAB?
Means the Marshall isn't in the bigger box...
Most anything sounds better than the DSL's .
@@PsionicAudio Because JHS Angry Charlie is better than whatever is in that DSL.
Hell, they got EL34s in there, why didn't they unleash them a bit more for some low-end thump? They could still half-power and 5-watt or whatever, just from a more muscular starting point
Love your channel. Please give us your insight on the Marshall Origin 50C.
Thanks!
When one comes in I'll share
Can you tell me a good place to start learning about how to understand what the hell you were just talking about? Lol 😆 trying to lean more about amps and how they work, but unfortunately don't have the money for school. Thanks.
From where I'm sitting the Orgin sounds kinda like the Bassman 50 head you just redid!
Move your chair. ;)
I think you got a bad 1 there... when you pull out the boost, that crackle is awful... mine doesn't do that... honestly, it seems your amp is not a good example of the sound you can get from the origin 20...
Sounds nothing like the O20 i tried which sounded better than the DSL20 next to it in a shop. Less thin and harsh. So, i think this amp has issues. It sounds terrible..
This amp had no issues when tested. I made sure, because it sounded awful. But it's working exactly as the schematic indicates.
I have the 50 and it takes pedals like a boss. The tilt gives you an insane number of tonal options. It's a pedal platform and a fantastic one at that. The amp on its own does not sound good.
Thanks for posting. Your 20H sounds like a dud to me. I have the Ori 50H and I use it with the Two Notes Torpedo with treble down to zero, through a Laney cab with a Celestion CB clone.. Sounds a few times better than the one on this vid. Am very happy with it, except I don't need 50W.
His sounds exactly like mine did and his thoughts echo mine.
@@stratolestele7611 ..may be another dud or an issue with the low wattage, or speaker. Mine is a head and I play it through a 75W Laney or a 1974X 20W cab. Great! Just way too loud for my house. However, I recently played the 5W combo and I liked it a lot.
I’m happy with my DSL40cr. I had a 50w origin and it didn’t stay around long before being returned. It was okay, but just okay. Meh
You can a 50 dollar Plexi crunch pedal from Nux and get closer tones to a Old Marshall
hello, many thanks for this video! I've got a question about my 20c Combo. What would happen if I would use it with both the internal speaker (16ohm jack) and an external 1x12 speaker (8ohm-connected to the 8ohm jack). Many thanks
I was asking a similar question to someone last week. My question had to do with solid state amps that apparently adjust to the speaker ohm load automatically; the loudness of the amp decreases as the ohm load increases but should sound/respond the same.
A tube amp on the other hand has an output transformer wired for a specific ohm load; some amps will be wired for different ohm outputs and you want to match the ohm load of the head with the ohms of the cabinet or you can burn up your amp.
Not sure if this answers your question but it sounds like you’re just wanting to plug an 8 ohm can into an 8 ohm output, which should sound and feel the same as a 16ohm cab plugged into the 16 ohm output. Don’t cross streams though!
Sad that the EL34s died so soon with only 250V. I guess it's like in the industry everywhere, we already have that part why bother with something else and then they can get better prices when buying from the manufacturer. There is knowledge in designing high gain tube circuits and not many people seem to have that nowadays, they think it's just low frequency stuff and the ground plane will deal with it, well not quite it seems. Thanks for the honest review.