there is a good chance this was me, didn't know cycles were different hate driving the track don't find it fun, i've ttd it still don't like it, don't pick dea because it's not fun too, I like the tracks I like and idc if your track gets picked tbh but I can dislike a track and whether it's for skill issue or not oh well
People in worldwide are actually the worst. Yesterday Maple Treeway, Squeaky Clean Sprint, and Excitebike showed up and 8 of the 12 people picked Excitebike, 3 picked random and 1 picked Maple Treeway which was me😐
@@HDRookie Fr, Maple Treeway is my favorite track so I was salty about having to play Excitebike instead. The troll tracks always get picked or ones that people genuinely hate like Baby Park, Excitebike, toad circuit, Tokyo blur, etc
Change us in uphill battle here, because the Japanese community seems mostly responsible for these trends. But discussion is how we start the change. We just gotta add more people to the side of reason 🙂
@@HDRookie I do wonder how the tracks that are the meta now even became the meta to begin with. Like what do people even see in rWS, Excitebike, MKS and more??
I quit competitive mario kart for this reason. But glad to see there are competitive players who can see reason. Amazing vide that hits the nail on the head.
I kinda had these kind of thoughs since a few months and started to pick different tracks in lounge like Choco Mountain that's literally at the bottom and that makes me happy cause now I feel unique xd
Used to always vote bkc, bdkm and bdks but recently I've been questioning myself because I've started to win on the really niche tracks. This video specifically enlightened me and I'm gonna start voting new tracks that are fresh and enjoyable. Ty
I think that's quite common in competitive gaming in general. For example in counter strike, when picking your map you can see your opponents win rate for each map and is crazy how most ppl play only mirage and inferno. But because of the banning system when picking maps this gives space for players like myself who are really good at an unusual maps like nuke or vertigo to pick them
Tbh, seeing opponent data wouldn't stop people from going Excite Ike because the people who pick it probably win like only 51% of the time on it, haha But this data would be nice to show people what tracks are actually benefitting them.
Thank you! I do have some podcast episodes up in the past on here, but not sure if it what exactly you're looking for. I try to cover every MK topic possible, but it is tough to thoroughly go through entire topics in a timely manner. I feel like I've got to find a way to get stuff out faster for sure.
Haven't been active for awhile, but this discussion is reminding me of when I played in BzK. We often won by picking Bone Dry Dunes (200cc) simply because our opponents had no idea how to drive it back then, lol. (We also picked Mute City a couple times because our opponents usually weren't playing heavyweights. But that kind of backfired because the track was relatively simple.)
This is exactly the kind of thinking that helped AX also later on. We started picking the really difficult to drive courses and the unusual ones (like Piranha Plant Slide, Mount Wario, Bone Dry Dunes, Neo Bowser City, Dragon Driftway, Ribbon Road, etc.) I think in the long run that's what made teams like ours so dangerous to play against
Love it. This is a big part of a winning strategy. Play to your strengths and your opponents weaknesses. Be good where they do not expect you to be. Do not play fair. Well, I say that, and I'm still angry at the FIA for stifling innovation in F1 when teams developed active aero, active suspensions, or flexible aero. Similar problem in WRC, we got turbos and 4WD out of the prototypes that ran in the 80' and 90', but the car were also very fragile. There could have been a push for safety while keeping the pioneering spirit in performance alive, yet they chose to sterilise every aspect. Sorry for the rant.
Before the new courses Ryukahr always picked Grumble Volcano when it shows up as one of the options. And the other people who recognize him they would pick it too because of him. If it didn't show up he normally picked random. But would never pick Excitebike Arena because he finds it boring. Other players picked it, not because of him hating it, but because they wants something easy without much things in the way.
I really appreciate the topic of this video! It has definitely helped out with confirming a big thing about this game I had wandering in my mind for a long time, as far as competitive events go. Just a random example i wanted to add in - i have been making a spreadsheet tracking (specifically) track picks in FFAs + placements whenever i play FFA matches. It's not a big sheet yet, only four events tracked so far, but one big thing i noticed was how, when a player picked a "rare" track, regardless of placement, they'd come out with a 1st place, or MOSTLY with a Podium spot. This method of tracking also really opened my mind, in general, to new track picks and what others are picking, instead of doing the "regular" picks. Nice video, and the comments are really great too!
I someone who TT's Waluigi Pinball recently, I picked it as a "trump card track" in Lounge and I felt advantaged on it and I often get good spots. I didn't like that track back then but now it's better and I'm glad to see another bWP enjoyer. I'll keep training tracks people are not used to play and master it, I feel like it's the best way to improve on this game. And I'm not talking about collective track picks as a team, which can be very powerful too if we play tracks the opponent team is not used to play.
I really like this video! You explain all of the player perspectives and tracks in lounge, which can help other players understand why we need diversity in this game more than ever! You deserve more views and subscribers! As a Paris Promenade, Ninja Hideaway, and Coconut Mall enjoyer, diversity is so important to this competitive scene! I use King Boo in my mogis because i want to have fun and challenge myself to do well! Great video!
so what im taking away from this is learn to master Mushroom Gorge as a bike /j this is actually a really good video for me because i plan on getting competitive one day, probably once my switch is fixed
@@VMan776 The whole track is made out of anti-inward techm, pretty much. Super bounces are everywhere due to the mushrooms, the gap cut is a monster for them, etc. All in all, it is the track from hell for inside drifters.
I’ll be honest, I’ve played ice ice outpost like 800~ times by now. And I’ve gotten yelled at for picking it. But every time I’ve consistently been top 3. Now I’ll send them this when they bring it up.
I feel like Ice Ice Outpost is picked by exactly 1 person in all my matches, but it always ends up selecting it. I'm not a fan of it, but usually get decent results
Finally someone speaks out the uncomfortable truth :) I‘ll never not pick Toad Harbour when I know that 10/12 players in my room won‘t know how to do the grass nisc, fast ramps and tram bounce properly
On one hand, I have noticed I win a lot on N64 RR so I choose it to win and therefore totally agree. On the other hand, my third best track is Excitebike Arena, so I'm helped by this being a problem :)
TBH, I'm not even convinced that Wario Stadium is that advantageous in 6v6 either. Still very good, not sure if it needs to be an every match kind of track though. I'll talk about it next time for sure. The hard part is - it's played every war - but it seems to be the community's fault that it's overcentralizing, if anything. Not the actual reality of the game.
@@agentblackbird9435 It has to do with the starting configuration, namely for coins. If you want a deeper dive, look up how to win Wario Stadium on my channel. I talk about the beginning of the race a lot there, and that translates a ton to 6v6 I'd say.
I am a baby park enjoyer (quick mention im bronze so the skill factor isnt as important). I genuinely love the chaos it brings into a mogi and my average placement is 3.2 after a tonne of games, I was tracking them myself on excel but this website is so much better, thanks for bringing it to my attention. I have been making a lot of these points when defending my 'odd' track picks in lounge and it was cool to see a video talking about this. This is a really good video (recommended by algorithm too just to let you know)
It is mainly an issue in a server for organized matches. There are some trends on what gets picked more in worldwide, but since there are only 3 options per race in worldwides, variety is not really an issue there.
Interesting Video as usual! I'm curious, how does a player like you, or a team like HD come to the conclusion that certain tracks are for them and how does that change over time? I have found that the tracks I pick in Lounge are essentially the same as what my team picks in 6v6 and I don't always like that. Sure I don't mind constantly picking Athens, DKM, DKS, Daisy Cruiser and LA Laps but it has felt difficult to add more. Recently my team added a Shy Guy Falls specialist to our roster and that track has worked out great for us, so I am interested to know what has worked for you with innovation.
Honestly, you just choose tracks you want to learn and usually you become good at them. How did HD decided to become a Pinball team? Well, when enough of us played it and realized that no opponents were stopping us on it. Of course in the top division, it's easier to feel unbeatable on certain courses because there are just nobody to beat you sometimes. You just have to readjust if other teams catch up, but sometimes it doesn't happen. In middle divs, it is a trial and error thing. You should still be able to see when tracks are working, even when playing teams ordinarily above your skill level, I should say. Keep in mind though, teams can adapt and focus in on your strengths. That's the importance of staying fresh and finding new stuff to explore. Or even learning your opponent's tracks for yourself. As for lounge, a lot of things from 6v6 and lounge crossover. If you're fast on a track b/c you practice it for wars, it would make sense that it translates to lounge too. And that's fine, as long as you like it and feel like it's the best pick for you.
I don't play online, only with friends, but then I have a reverse mindset. I am way above my friends in terms of skill in general so I'll intentionally pick the easier tracks or those that give even me trouble most of the time because it gives them more of a chance to keep things more interesting for me.
Same when I play with my wife and kids, or my brothers. With the added challenge of using Petey on Badwagon with Monster Tires and Wario wing, instead of Rosalina Tripper Roller Paper. I'm in the process of switching to Male Villager, Tripper (Pipe still unavailable), Button, Paper for online play. I'm still "new" to the game, two months I got it, but I spent a lot of time playing MK DS and Wii, so some reflexes transferred, and I play MK8DX quite a lot more than my family does.
I do this strategy with Koopa Cape and Dragon Driftway as I am simply faster on that track than 90-95% of players on it and I know alot of the ways how the tracks play and I see alot of success with it.
Even as someone who's only tier FG material whenever I throw out the Waluigi Pinball or Rosalina's Ice World for my frontrunner picks I'd do well or even get 1st again nearly every time. Compare that to me choosing Music Park and the difficulty on staying in the front is clearly noticeable.
I just wanna know why Excitebike Arena is so popular. I pick whatever track I feel like playing, or whatever's available from the list, and Excitebike is just so... Bland
I am a Random course selector. Before I did SNS (Saturday Night Speedway) #150 back in 2022, I always chose my courses. Now, I choose random. My reason for why is because the SNS tournament made all the players choose random. Some courses I absolutely dreaded when it was chosen on random, but now, I enjoy the fact I get random courses because it shows me what I’m bad at and where I can improve. I go back to MKTV, look at Top 4 positions in replay after a few Worldwide races and I practice. Thanks to it, I’ve learned better lines, how to Super Bounce, how to use my mushrooms more effectively. Some People will call it a skill issue, me being lazy or maybe me not taking it seriously. I call it learning, improving, adapting and being able to handle a track that could be someone else’s favorite. (Yeah, yeah, I could just choose the track someone is good at over and over, but I’m trying to see what other obscure tracks you are good at too. MKTV only holds the most recent 12 races you do, along with your 6 favorites. Gotta make the most of them all before I do another 12 races. Always racing, rewatching and learning.)
This is a good approach toward improving at the game, for sure. And if you're playing a format like with SNS where you don't pick a track (kinda strange since I believe that used 12 switches, no split screen), it makes sense too. That said, I do maintain that if you find yourself in a do-or-die kind of situation, like a big tournament finals, or official match, picking your strongest tracks is definitely favorable. Really it comes down to the situation. There is time for practice, and it is necessary too. However, there are times where execution comes ahead all else.
@@HDRookie I wholeheartedly agree! Yeah, SNS uses 12 Switches with no split screen. I believe they were lifting the random only last year, but I could be wrong. They use the wireless multiplayer mode. Also, 200cc Baby Park for Losers Bracket is truly a wonder to see. I do have some strong tracks that I do choose in cases where I need to make the most of situations. While random keeps me on my toes, I do understand the importance and value of having a go to map that someone excels at. Glad you appreciate the approach and thanks for the feedback! Happy Racing!
Hi Rookie, this was a great video. I agreed with a lot of it, but I do think I could share a thought that might lead to some interesting thoughts I actually do think there objectively "bad" tracks in the game. The main one I point to is Ninja Hideaway. You have 3 different paths: The bottom path, which is slow and offers no coins or items; The Top Path, which is faster, has an item set, and gives you 4 coins just for taking it; and the NISC/cut, which is just the fastest path. I have no issues with top path and the NISC, but I do have a problem with the bottom path. For me it is a useless path that shouldn't be there, there is zero reason why any player would opt to take that path on their own accord, it sucks for running because you get zero coins and its the slowest, it sucks for bagging because there's no coins to get and there's also zero item boxes. It's a track element that hurts the player without any benefit. This issue is worse for me because having access to the top path is based on a cycle. If you aren't going at tt pace for the whole race, then you realistically aren't going to time yourself to get the top path 100% of the time, or even something like 80%. I personally feel like this kind of intentional punishment of the player is not good game design, and makes the track unfun to play online. Yes, you could counter this by going for NISC every lap but then you lose out on the item set and the coins. There's already not very many coins on the track so this makes catching up really hard because if you get hit at all you lose your coin progress and it takes some luck to get the cycle that allows you to roll items and get coins. Thanks for reading and I hope to see more dives into the competitive scene! You've done so much for mk over the years 🐐🐐🐐🐐
I wouldn't say it's objectively bad still. In this case, the third path acts as a fail condition - just because it is least desirable, doesn't mean it has no use. Even for the glider at the start of the lap, something that'll never be used by a serious player, I would argue it doesn't hurt anything. If the track would play the same with or without it, I think that it's a neutral thing, not necessarily a negative. Overall, everything comes down to player preference still. Whether Ninja vibes with you personally is your call - that said, I do think there is a lot to like about it still despite having some odd design decisions.
This is a big reason why i dont play as much, i hate excite bike, ribbon road, and wario stadium which are extremely common. Its also why i spam pick neo bowser city. Most players drive it terribly due to the different traction on the map, while i TT it for fun quite often
This is just simple counter play. It’s like if smash players got mad at a person for choosing a character or stage there good at. Choice keeps competitive games alive
That's exactly it. One of my friends was a local competitive Street Fighter player (almost all versions till last year). He was great with Guile, but always practised with 2 more characters just in case he'd face a bad matchup and needed to get the upper hand. He got yelled at a couple of times. 😂
0:50 this is why I multiply the percentage by 12, to measure the chance the track appears over the course of a mogi. It feels a lot more intuitive from a glance, especially since the numbers after the decimal on that site make the difference feel way less significant than it actually is. I also take note of whether a pick as my own so that I can remove those from the pool if I wanted
Keep in mind, that number is not actually the percent chance of a track appearing in a mogi. Once every 19 races doesn't mean it has a 1/19 chance of being picked. You'd need some slightly altered counting stats. The track order should still be maintained, however.
I think the correct calculation to convert a probability of occurring per race to probability of occurring per mogi is to do 100%-((100%-P)^12), so with 5.2% that would mean dEA appears in 47% of mogis.
@vike996 I had this thought too, but the numbers are still slightly off and the real ones are a bit more complex to get to (prob dont have enough info). P(dEA) =/= P(dEA | excitebike hasn't been picked yet), which is your error here. The 94.8% is still made up of races where dEA is an ineligible track to begin with, so it seems quite likely to me that it actually is played in a bit over 50%.
@@HDRookie ok you made me do the actual maths, assume that P is the number we get on Ito's website which represents how often the track is picked overall. Assume that T is the probability of the track being picked on race 1 of the mogi when there are no restrictions of track choice. We can show that P is the sum from i = 0 to 11 of (T*(1-T)^i)/12. If we plug in the value of P = 0.052 for dEA and solve for T, we can find that T = 0.078. We can then put this T value back into the formula I posted earlier to get back the probability that dEA occurs in a given mogi is 62.3%. This does not account for the fact that the probability of T will be higher for each successive race as other tracks have been eliminated from contention though, but it's too complicated to factor that in.
@vike996 The variance of T is why I didn't bother with wanting to do the Calc. But this overall number still seems a bit closer to what the actual percentage is for sure. That being said, I think it is absurd for a track to be played in over 3/5 of all mogis. Point doesn't change haha
I don't really participate in the battle mode server, so I don't think I'd be able to give an accurate reflection of what is picked over there. That being said, with only 8 stages, I imagine all of them get plenty of playtime.
I agree with most of this video. the one thing that frustrates me is, as you alluded to .. is anyone picking sky high sundae, baby park, excite bike arena cu, they think theyre at an advantage? i dont think so. those courses feel like a randomizer, which i suppose is strategy itself. Granted, i just got into the game and havent even hit 10k yet, nevermind started playing lounge.
Actually, yes. Especially Excitebike, it requires a lot of skill. The issue with it in particular is that it surprises nobody. Sky High Sundae though, I agree, os simplistic. Somehow though, the players who have practiced it still seem to get better results though. Wouldn't be my go to track personally, but it can work.
In my personal experience, certain courses that always get picked are… Bangkok Rush - Why?! It’s horrible! Squeaky Clean Sprint - I get why everyone likes it, but I just can’t get into it. I don’t find it fun to drive on. Wii Rainbow Road - Now that is S tier Honestly, the best advice I can give for playing online is… don’t pick Baby Park
It is easier to blame the tracks for being bad than to review whatever misplays or improvements were made. Luck, comeback potential, broken sets/shortcuts, sections prone to item-spam, even opinions on good tracks would deteriorate when the results aren't good. Save for competitive players who only complains when they don't do well or certain tracks get picked.
This is an underrated factor in all of this. Tracks do matter, but when players blame the game, they can't effectively throw any ideas of track strategy out the window saying that the reason they lost lies elsewhere.
@@dariusbrawl3759 there's a lot I could say still, but I sint want to pretend to be an expert where I'm not is all. Got a lot of other projects to focus on first as well
im curious on your thoughts on the topic in terms of 6v6. I feel like the discussion would be difference since I feel like its less of a discussion about laziness and more of a discussion about understanding and playing to capabilities, but Id find the topic interesting none the less. It also gives the room to talk about trainbow, which i think is kind of an anomaly since I believe it is the only track to really offer an advantage for bottom spots at large.
I def don't agree that Trainbow is the only option - but it is a polarizing one. I would argue that Tokyo is just as strong as a bottom spot runner as well, and there are plenty of shroom up courses in this game as well. I do plan to address this in the next vid I do though. I want to take a look at the history of counterpicking in 6v6, how Trainbow fits into that, if the game needs it, etc. But yeah, definitely a bit to talk about with 6v6 specifically.
i don't know a whole lot about competitive mario kart 8 deluxe but wouldn't it be a good strategy to learn how to play all the city tracks and get really good at them? because i wouldnt imagine they get picked very much
Maybe. City tracks are definitely "noobslayer" courses. But all ranked players are still familiar with them. You'd have to work a bit for an advantage, like with any track, really.
If I got brutally Mario Kart’s in the last race and GCN Baby Park’s in the selection for the next race, I’m picking it. Not because I want to play it in an online competitive setting, but rather to send a message.
Question. What if older MK skill based mechanics make a comeback. As to my understanding MK Wii is the only game where bikes were involved in the meta. Also my favourite thing about MK Wii was chain wheelies. I think with current drifting Mechanics if you limit bikes mini turbo but allow chain wheelies it co be a fair balance. Also playing the balance mod for Wii is amazing and is shocking that the main developers didn’t consider it for future MK titles
Well they have balanced Deluxe a decent amount. The skill based driving mechanics of MKDS and prior were a bit of a gatekeeper for casual players to truly get into the series I think as well. Also, bikes are more than relevant in 8D's meta. By far the best balance they've ever had between karts and bikes here.
I didn't know there Was a Meta for Track Picking I just Assume People Just Like the Track they are Picking For Me I like All the Tracks some more then Others Of Course but Even If I Pick My Favorite Track in the Game I Try to Not Repeat my Track Pick and At Least Play a Track I haven't played that Day tho Doing it Online Is Really Hard based on How Often Tracks Appear Online then Others (Some Feels Like they Rarely Come up for some reason) I Like Random Offline then Online because Online there is Always a Chance it'll Repeat a Track where Offline It Never Repeats a Track
Great vid! One note: Is it not in popular course metagamers best interest to propagate the picking of these courses and gatekeep the picking of rare "specialty" courses? The more they play them, the more catch-up other players need to do. It can be seen as optimal to whine about other players choosing other courses that the whiners aren't good on.
It is a decent gameplan and optimal for people who don't want to practice. It's pretty toxic for the health of the game though and limiting of player potential, imo.
Haven't watched the vid but I assume Excite Bike is picked because it's simple. I'd argue most players are super casual and it's just a loop with some jumps and hills and minimal shortcuts where better players can abuse the worse players who don't know shortcuts or can't do them well. The only shortcuts are taking the turns in the grass with an item but most casual players would know that anyways. Mushroom Gorge idk...better players know the shroom cut at the end, and casuals just like to bounce a lot?
Not a Lounge player but I have around 14k VR from Worldwides iirc, I’ve got to ask, why is Wario’s Gold Mine the least picked track? I see it a fair amount online Small edit, I absolutely despise Baby Park, Excitebike, and Ribbon Road, but I’ve always enjoyed Sky High Sundae and Wario Stadium. And yes, as an inside bike user, the cuts on Mushroom Gorge are nearly impossible for me atm
im also inward bike and to increase your chance to pass the gap jump, using a star and a shroom helps a lot to take this cut you need a lot of speed, it's still possible with one single shroom but way more difficult than without the star (or without using a speed centered combo, like a heavy character for example) and i'm not talking about the one jumping over the fence because i've passed it like 3 times in my whole life lmao
also if you happen to gap jump, make sure to take the habit to activate your smart steering because you probably won't be able to make a turn before ending blocked in the rocks at the bottom of the wall on the roads right, it makes you lose a LOT of time because you'll have to drive backwards on the grass it's way slower than not jumping and you'll lose a lot of spots
I wouldn't categorize any course as a mogi course still. At the end of the day, the community decides what is and isn't. And there is reason to question what's currently popular
I don't understand why people despise waluigi pinball it's litteraly one of the best tracks and the best version of the track imo I think people are just lazy and want to stay in their comfort zone and keep spaming tracks they play since forever
Both pinballs have an opposite pattern to each other. They only will hit 1 of the flippers every time. It can easily be studied, but sometimes the timing makes it hard. I like having a track that makes you adapt to a changing factor like that though, it makes the track feel dynamic, imo.
I of course agree, but I think the track has been insanely good in every game it's been in. While popular casually, it seems that popularity just hasn't translated to comp play which is strange considering it has really high potential in comp, imo.
Sometimes, but there's no rule for that. Often, playing as the same color can confuse opponents, but sometimes teams just prefer sticking to a specific one out of their own personal comfort.
I feel like this wont happen as much in lower tiers ef-f because i've seen a lot of people that just dont know the strats, so if you learn them, you could get ahead. also 12:50 how dare you🤓🤓🤓
So people who choose random course option are lazy and have no originality? Wow. Say ur arrogant without saying ur arrogant. Maybe someone chooses random cause they dont care the track because they like all the tracks and confident in their abilities in any track. Your something else. 😒
If that's what you want to classify me as, then sure, but I think it would be a misrepresentation. Depends on the setting I think. Picking random is fun for the surprise element, but I definitely don't see it as a legitimate strategy for trying your best to win. Even in a world where a player is equally skilled on every track (doubtful), it won't be true of one's opponents. Often, the track that maximizes your odds of winning will change over time and depend on your opponents. With that said, I also understand many people don't play in the lounge queue I'm discussing and casual play is cool too. Part of what made the all cup tour back in Double Dash fun was not knowing the track order.
@@HDRookieThere u go assuming being arrogant again. I don't casual play. And I main worldwide specifically enjoy nightly Japanese lobbies. Doesn't matter the track that's why I do choose random, any track chosen I can be successful in winning with no problem because I know my abilities. And if I lose I lose. So what I'm saying isn't misinterpretation of ur video. This whole video was u either calling the Mario kart community lazy or u saying they have no strive let alone original ideas and should only choose meta easily able to win tracks. So yeah, u are arrogant. Majority of u mk RUclipsrs are, not a shocker to seeing another one. Not everyone in the Mk community has to be a Beta Meta Player to win.
@@nicoleschannel329 Did you... watch the video? I literally advocate for not spamming the "meta" courses and argue that the most advantageous track for someone to pick is likely going to constantly shift depending on what your opponents aren't practiced on. I would think that this idea would be appealing to someone who prides themselves on their versatility and ability to win on any track in the game. Our definitions of casual and competitive are clearly different. When I refer to someone as a casual player, that is not something that is done in any demeaning way. I am a casual player in many of the games I play, personally. Casual players still have an interest in winning of course, that is the object of any multiplayer game for the most part. Competitive players tend to be more driven by trying to win though. There are simply many more means for competition styled play outside of a worldwide setting. Maybe our definitions don't agree, but just focusing on winning a bunch of individual worldwide races I would call a very different setting from online lounge games. Neither are inherently better or worse than the other, but I think it's more than fair to classify them differently.
I used to enjoy watching competitive content on YT but the more I watched, MK8D started to feel like a 20-track, 4-character/combo game. Commentary on competitive videos also became so predictable where you know exactly which tracks they will complain about as if they are expecting anything different going into these mogis.
Personally I prefer playing 6v6 for this reason, you get more control over what is selected collectively as a team and it allows you to actually experiment rather than just sitting in the back and complaining about others lol
I despise meta players since they actively make the game unfun for us casual players. But comparing track selection to a fighting game?! I'm sorry, did you smoke too many Golden Mushrooms before recording? Because that comparison makes zero sense to me. Mario Kart is just meant to be a fun casual game (hence the item system), it's not suppose to be taken seriously as something like Smash. Go play something like Grand Turismo if you want a purely skill based racing game or just go play Smash if you want to 'counterpick' your opponents.
So much to unpack here. Let's try to go one by one. How a game is 'meant' to be played is not particularly relevant. If players have a certain way to gain enjoyment out of a game, good for them. Gran Turismo holds little to no interest to me. It is a completely different game. I enjoy the driving elements in Mario Kart, but I also enjoy the items on top of it. They make it much more interesting to me, because races force you to interact with your opponents / try to hit them. I don't play this game to just time trial online. I like it for a multitude of reasons, in which driving is one factor. For the record, Smash was designed as a party game also, with items on as well. Your entire perception of it being a serious game is because the community, like ours, has turned it into a game that is played that way. At its core, it was designed to be a casual 4 player couch game with items, chaos, smash balls, etc. It's cool that there are players that play it in a different ways, and it is competitively deep too. But the same actually goes for MK. The presence of RNG does not make a game inherently uncompetitive. A matter of fact, understanding risk and how it works requires a lot of skill. Turning items off would make the game not worth playing in my mind. Traditional racing games aren't a replacement. Perhaps GT is more skill oriented, but it doesn't make it necessarily more worth playing. As long as Smash players or MK players aren't ruining the game for others, I don't see the issue. I don't go online to play top combinations in worldwide, I stick to private lobbies if I want to play to win. I understand that many people play this game for different reasons, and I want to be respectful to all types of players. I don't pick MK to counterpick players either - this was an analogy to FGC if anything. If I am trying to win, I'm going to pick my best courses. If my opponents aren't strong on that track, it is likely to remain my best track until opponents get better on it. That often just happens for tracks that aren't commonly played though.
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I lose 5 years off my life whenever Excitebike Arena gets picked
Bro’s been long dead for a while
I don’t, I dig Excitebike
excitebike haters unite ✊
If that's true then you've been dead for years
i gain those 5 years
Random Course Selectors when bangers such as *Toad's Turnpike* & *Excitebike Arena* get picked: 😲 😨
"The ball paths are unpredictable," says the person who is about to pick the course with unpredictable ramp spawns.
there is a good chance this was me, didn't know cycles were different hate driving the track don't find it fun, i've ttd it still don't like it, don't pick dea because it's not fun too, I like the tracks I like and idc if your track gets picked tbh but I can dislike a track and whether it's for skill issue or not oh well
this explained my thoughts PERFECTLY. there’s a reason why I myself pick dp3 and squeaky clean sprint due to them being my better tracks. awesome vid
People in worldwide are actually the worst. Yesterday Maple Treeway, Squeaky Clean Sprint, and Excitebike showed up and 8 of the 12 people picked Excitebike, 3 picked random and 1 picked Maple Treeway which was me😐
That actually surprises me, ngl. It's crazy, since so many people supposedly hold Maple Treeway in such high regard.
@@HDRookie Fr, Maple Treeway is my favorite track so I was salty about having to play Excitebike instead. The troll tracks always get picked or ones that people genuinely hate like Baby Park, Excitebike, toad circuit, Tokyo blur, etc
No matter how good of a track is available people always pick that piece of trash oval
@@CeoOfBetttMaple Tree Way is also my favorite track from Mario Kart Wii. I like this track
HOW DID NO ONE PICK ACCELERATED TOILET?!
Finally someone said it. So glad you went out and confronted this issue that a lot of people (including myself) have with the current state of lounge
Change us in uphill battle here, because the Japanese community seems mostly responsible for these trends. But discussion is how we start the change. We just gotta add more people to the side of reason 🙂
@@HDRookie I do wonder how the tracks that are the meta now even became the meta to begin with. Like what do people even see in rWS, Excitebike, MKS and more??
@@silverxks I think it has to do for the things I talked about around 2 mins in
@@HDRookie whoops
@@silverxks forgot to respond, but no biggie.
I quit competitive mario kart for this reason. But glad to see there are competitive players who can see reason. Amazing vide that hits the nail on the head.
Hope to see you return at some point. Try out a LAN some time if you can, totally different vibe than the online ladder and so much more personable.
I kinda had these kind of thoughs since a few months and started to pick different tracks in lounge like Choco Mountain that's literally at the bottom and that makes me happy cause now I feel unique xd
I just pick tracks I like
The greatest strategy
@@HDRookie I'm telling you, I'm no good at Electrodrome, but I'm picking it 70,000 times out of 70,000
Used to always vote bkc, bdkm and bdks but recently I've been questioning myself because I've started to win on the really niche tracks. This video specifically enlightened me and I'm gonna start voting new tracks that are fresh and enjoyable. Ty
I think that's quite common in competitive gaming in general. For example in counter strike, when picking your map you can see your opponents win rate for each map and is crazy how most ppl play only mirage and inferno. But because of the banning system when picking maps this gives space for players like myself who are really good at an unusual maps like nuke or vertigo to pick them
Tbh, seeing opponent data wouldn't stop people from going Excite Ike because the people who pick it probably win like only 51% of the time on it, haha
But this data would be nice to show people what tracks are actually benefitting them.
love the ideas here. honestly if this was a podcast, i'd listen to every episode on my way to work.
Thank you! I do have some podcast episodes up in the past on here, but not sure if it what exactly you're looking for. I try to cover every MK topic possible, but it is tough to thoroughly go through entire topics in a timely manner. I feel like I've got to find a way to get stuff out faster for sure.
Haven't been active for awhile, but this discussion is reminding me of when I played in BzK. We often won by picking Bone Dry Dunes (200cc) simply because our opponents had no idea how to drive it back then, lol.
(We also picked Mute City a couple times because our opponents usually weren't playing heavyweights. But that kind of backfired because the track was relatively simple.)
This is exactly the kind of thinking that helped AX also later on. We started picking the really difficult to drive courses and the unusual ones (like Piranha Plant Slide, Mount Wario, Bone Dry Dunes, Neo Bowser City, Dragon Driftway, Ribbon Road, etc.) I think in the long run that's what made teams like ours so dangerous to play against
@@Nick867 Didn't know you did that on AX. Pretty neat. :)
Love it.
This is a big part of a winning strategy.
Play to your strengths and your opponents weaknesses.
Be good where they do not expect you to be.
Do not play fair.
Well, I say that, and I'm still angry at the FIA for stifling innovation in F1 when teams developed active aero, active suspensions, or flexible aero.
Similar problem in WRC, we got turbos and 4WD out of the prototypes that ran in the 80' and 90', but the car were also very fragile. There could have been a push for safety while keeping the pioneering spirit in performance alive, yet they chose to sterilise every aspect.
Sorry for the rant.
Before the new courses Ryukahr always picked Grumble Volcano when it shows up as one of the options. And the other people who recognize him they would pick it too because of him. If it didn't show up he normally picked random. But would never pick Excitebike Arena because he finds it boring. Other players picked it, not because of him hating it, but because they wants something easy without much things in the way.
I really appreciate the topic of this video! It has definitely helped out with confirming a big thing about this game I had wandering in my mind for a long time, as far as competitive events go.
Just a random example i wanted to add in - i have been making a spreadsheet tracking (specifically) track picks in FFAs + placements whenever i play FFA matches. It's not a big sheet yet, only four events tracked so far,
but one big thing i noticed was how, when a player picked a "rare" track, regardless of placement, they'd come out with a 1st place, or MOSTLY with a Podium spot.
This method of tracking also really opened my mind, in general, to new track picks and what others are picking, instead of doing the "regular" picks.
Nice video, and the comments are really great too!
The comment section is what we make these for. Glad I could help on your research!
When nobody selects wii rainbow road and you gotta wait 20 races for it to appear again...
I somehow have the complete opposite, one person picks it and it always, gets, picked. (To race on)
@@kieronleonard4584 funny how things work😄
I someone who TT's Waluigi Pinball recently, I picked it as a "trump card track" in Lounge and I felt advantaged on it and I often get good spots. I didn't like that track back then but now it's better and I'm glad to see another bWP enjoyer.
I'll keep training tracks people are not used to play and master it, I feel like it's the best way to improve on this game. And I'm not talking about collective track picks as a team, which can be very powerful too if we play tracks the opponent team is not used to play.
Welcome to the club 🙂
I really like this video! You explain all of the player perspectives and tracks in lounge, which can help other players understand why we need diversity in this game more than ever! You deserve more views and subscribers! As a Paris Promenade, Ninja Hideaway, and Coconut Mall enjoyer, diversity is so important to this competitive scene! I use King Boo in my mogis because i want to have fun and challenge myself to do well! Great video!
Another Wave 1 enjoyer? Nice. Thanks for the kind words too!
I'm glad youtube reccomended this to me, I've been wanting to watch videos like yours for a while!
Not many people cover subjects like this and I think it's because it isnt exactly popular. Glad to hear you enjoyed :)
so what im taking away from this is learn to master Mushroom Gorge as a bike /j
this is actually a really good video for me because i plan on getting competitive one day, probably once my switch is fixed
There is only so much you can do as a bike player on Gorge. The best bikers in the world on it will still struggle at higher levels, I'd say
@@HDRookieWhat about Gorge makes it a bad track for bikes?
@@VMan776 I think it's because Bikes don't have super bounces which is really important of Gorge
@@VMan776 The whole track is made out of anti-inward techm, pretty much. Super bounces are everywhere due to the mushrooms, the gap cut is a monster for them, etc. All in all, it is the track from hell for inside drifters.
I've always picked running tracks or draft tracks regardless of spots, I never understood picking bagging tracks except rmc
I’ll be honest, I’ve played ice ice outpost like 800~ times by now. And I’ve gotten yelled at for picking it. But every time I’ve consistently been top 3. Now I’ll send them this when they bring it up.
I feel like Ice Ice Outpost is picked by exactly 1 person in all my matches, but it always ends up selecting it. I'm not a fan of it, but usually get decent results
Finally someone speaks out the uncomfortable truth :) I‘ll never not pick Toad Harbour when I know that 10/12 players in my room won‘t know how to do the grass nisc, fast ramps and tram bounce properly
Excitebike is often picked in competitive lobbies because of the amount of perfect front running it takes.
On one hand, I have noticed I win a lot on N64 RR so I choose it to win and therefore totally agree.
On the other hand, my third best track is Excitebike Arena, so I'm helped by this being a problem :)
If I have to play Wario Stadium one more time in a war, it will be yet another tuesday
TBH, I'm not even convinced that Wario Stadium is that advantageous in 6v6 either. Still very good, not sure if it needs to be an every match kind of track though. I'll talk about it next time for sure. The hard part is - it's played every war - but it seems to be the community's fault that it's overcentralizing, if anything. Not the actual reality of the game.
@@HDRookie This is why I specialize in regional lobbies. I love wars, but I swear 50% of the staple tracks are some of my least favorite in the game
@@HDRookieWhat’s the reason for it being picked so often in Lounges and Wars? I always liked the track but I’m not competitive
@@agentblackbird9435theoretically very good for first place because of the large amount of coins at the beginning and lack of big shortcuts
@@agentblackbird9435 It has to do with the starting configuration, namely for coins. If you want a deeper dive, look up how to win Wario Stadium on my channel. I talk about the beginning of the race a lot there, and that translates a ton to 6v6 I'd say.
I am a baby park enjoyer (quick mention im bronze so the skill factor isnt as important). I genuinely love the chaos it brings into a mogi and my average placement is 3.2 after a tonne of games, I was tracking them myself on excel but this website is so much better, thanks for bringing it to my attention.
I have been making a lot of these points when defending my 'odd' track picks in lounge and it was cool to see a video talking about this.
This is a really good video (recommended by algorithm too just to let you know)
Glad I could help out :)
I pick courses that are fun to play on. Didn't realise all this was going on with everyone else.
It is mainly an issue in a server for organized matches. There are some trends on what gets picked more in worldwide, but since there are only 3 options per race in worldwides, variety is not really an issue there.
Interesting Video as usual! I'm curious, how does a player like you, or a team like HD come to the conclusion that certain tracks are for them and how does that change over time? I have found that the tracks I pick in Lounge are essentially the same as what my team picks in 6v6 and I don't always like that. Sure I don't mind constantly picking Athens, DKM, DKS, Daisy Cruiser and LA Laps but it has felt difficult to add more. Recently my team added a Shy Guy Falls specialist to our roster and that track has worked out great for us, so I am interested to know what has worked for you with innovation.
Honestly, you just choose tracks you want to learn and usually you become good at them. How did HD decided to become a Pinball team? Well, when enough of us played it and realized that no opponents were stopping us on it.
Of course in the top division, it's easier to feel unbeatable on certain courses because there are just nobody to beat you sometimes. You just have to readjust if other teams catch up, but sometimes it doesn't happen.
In middle divs, it is a trial and error thing. You should still be able to see when tracks are working, even when playing teams ordinarily above your skill level, I should say. Keep in mind though, teams can adapt and focus in on your strengths. That's the importance of staying fresh and finding new stuff to explore. Or even learning your opponent's tracks for yourself.
As for lounge, a lot of things from 6v6 and lounge crossover. If you're fast on a track b/c you practice it for wars, it would make sense that it translates to lounge too. And that's fine, as long as you like it and feel like it's the best pick for you.
I don't play online, only with friends, but then I have a reverse mindset. I am way above my friends in terms of skill in general so I'll intentionally pick the easier tracks or those that give even me trouble most of the time because it gives them more of a chance to keep things more interesting for me.
You're a good friend
Same when I play with my wife and kids, or my brothers. With the added challenge of using Petey on Badwagon with Monster Tires and Wario wing, instead of Rosalina Tripper Roller Paper.
I'm in the process of switching to Male Villager, Tripper (Pipe still unavailable), Button, Paper for online play.
I'm still "new" to the game, two months I got it, but I spent a lot of time playing MK DS and Wii, so some reflexes transferred, and I play MK8DX quite a lot more than my family does.
I choose the tracks I like at that moment and I usually go really well
This video is extremely well made as someone who also frequently plays competitive 8DX, would love to see the same with 6v6
I do this strategy with Koopa Cape and Dragon Driftway as I am simply faster on that track than 90-95% of players on it and I know alot of the ways how the tracks play and I see alot of success with it.
thank you for bringing up dBP i swear to god every time i pick it i get accused of trolling, whole time im laughing with my free 2nd
It all comes down to intention, really. I think the track is garbage but pick what you gotta pick, if it's working.
you’re so real for this video
Even as someone who's only tier FG material whenever I throw out the Waluigi Pinball or Rosalina's Ice World for my frontrunner picks I'd do well or even get 1st again nearly every time. Compare that to me choosing Music Park and the difficulty on staying in the front is clearly noticeable.
I wish people picked more tracks. I spam pick daisy circuit because i always do very good on it
I just wanna know why Excitebike Arena is so popular. I pick whatever track I feel like playing, or whatever's available from the list, and Excitebike is just so... Bland
I think there are a lot of ways to win on it, and players find comfort in always having an avenue to win, perhaps
I am a Random course selector. Before I did SNS (Saturday Night Speedway) #150 back in 2022, I always chose my courses. Now, I choose random. My reason for why is because the SNS tournament made all the players choose random. Some courses I absolutely dreaded when it was chosen on random, but now, I enjoy the fact I get random courses because it shows me what I’m bad at and where I can improve. I go back to MKTV, look at Top 4 positions in replay after a few Worldwide races and I practice. Thanks to it, I’ve learned better lines, how to Super Bounce, how to use my mushrooms more effectively.
Some People will call it a skill issue, me being lazy or maybe me not taking it seriously.
I call it learning, improving, adapting and being able to handle a track that could be someone else’s favorite.
(Yeah, yeah, I could just choose the track someone is good at over and over, but I’m trying to see what other obscure tracks you are good at too. MKTV only holds the most recent 12 races you do, along with your 6 favorites. Gotta make the most of them all before I do another 12 races. Always racing, rewatching and learning.)
This is a good approach toward improving at the game, for sure. And if you're playing a format like with SNS where you don't pick a track (kinda strange since I believe that used 12 switches, no split screen), it makes sense too. That said, I do maintain that if you find yourself in a do-or-die kind of situation, like a big tournament finals, or official match, picking your strongest tracks is definitely favorable.
Really it comes down to the situation. There is time for practice, and it is necessary too. However, there are times where execution comes ahead all else.
@@HDRookie I wholeheartedly agree! Yeah, SNS uses 12 Switches with no split screen. I believe they were lifting the random only last year, but I could be wrong. They use the wireless multiplayer mode. Also, 200cc Baby Park for Losers Bracket is truly a wonder to see. I do have some strong tracks that I do choose in cases where I need to make the most of situations. While random keeps me on my toes, I do understand the importance and value of having a go to map that someone excels at. Glad you appreciate the approach and thanks for the feedback! Happy Racing!
Hi Rookie, this was a great video. I agreed with a lot of it, but I do think I could share a thought that might lead to some interesting thoughts
I actually do think there objectively "bad" tracks in the game. The main one I point to is Ninja Hideaway. You have 3 different paths: The bottom path, which is slow and offers no coins or items; The Top Path, which is faster, has an item set, and gives you 4 coins just for taking it; and the NISC/cut, which is just the fastest path. I have no issues with top path and the NISC, but I do have a problem with the bottom path. For me it is a useless path that shouldn't be there, there is zero reason why any player would opt to take that path on their own accord, it sucks for running because you get zero coins and its the slowest, it sucks for bagging because there's no coins to get and there's also zero item boxes. It's a track element that hurts the player without any benefit. This issue is worse for me because having access to the top path is based on a cycle. If you aren't going at tt pace for the whole race, then you realistically aren't going to time yourself to get the top path 100% of the time, or even something like 80%. I personally feel like this kind of intentional punishment of the player is not good game design, and makes the track unfun to play online. Yes, you could counter this by going for NISC every lap but then you lose out on the item set and the coins. There's already not very many coins on the track so this makes catching up really hard because if you get hit at all you lose your coin progress and it takes some luck to get the cycle that allows you to roll items and get coins.
Thanks for reading and I hope to see more dives into the competitive scene! You've done so much for mk over the years 🐐🐐🐐🐐
I wouldn't say it's objectively bad still. In this case, the third path acts as a fail condition - just because it is least desirable, doesn't mean it has no use.
Even for the glider at the start of the lap, something that'll never be used by a serious player, I would argue it doesn't hurt anything. If the track would play the same with or without it, I think that it's a neutral thing, not necessarily a negative.
Overall, everything comes down to player preference still. Whether Ninja vibes with you personally is your call - that said, I do think there is a lot to like about it still despite having some odd design decisions.
this is what i am saying! i am bronze 1 and thought there was good some reason people didn’t pick rare tracks but ig not smh
Not all rare tracks will be good for you. But some definitely can be useful to you, I would say. Don't shy away from finding what works!
Really good video, and you make a lot of great points.
The image at 4:36 is nightmare fuel for me. 🤣💀
This is a big reason why i dont play as much, i hate excite bike, ribbon road, and wario stadium which are extremely common. Its also why i spam pick neo bowser city. Most players drive it terribly due to the different traction on the map, while i TT it for fun quite often
Why do you hate Ribbon road
@@bitstimandwesker8896 im not a fan of the waving road
@@dracozeon_wii rainbow road has one too
This is just simple counter play. It’s like if smash players got mad at a person for choosing a character or stage there good at. Choice keeps competitive games alive
Yeah. It shouldn't have to be said out loud. There's a lounge hive mind though
That's exactly it.
One of my friends was a local competitive Street Fighter player (almost all versions till last year).
He was great with Guile, but always practised with 2 more characters just in case he'd face a bad matchup and needed to get the upper hand.
He got yelled at a couple of times. 😂
0:50 this is why I multiply the percentage by 12, to measure the chance the track appears over the course of a mogi. It feels a lot more intuitive from a glance, especially since the numbers after the decimal on that site make the difference feel way less significant than it actually is. I also take note of whether a pick as my own so that I can remove those from the pool if I wanted
Keep in mind, that number is not actually the percent chance of a track appearing in a mogi. Once every 19 races doesn't mean it has a 1/19 chance of being picked. You'd need some slightly altered counting stats. The track order should still be maintained, however.
I think the correct calculation to convert a probability of occurring per race to probability of occurring per mogi is to do 100%-((100%-P)^12), so with 5.2% that would mean dEA appears in 47% of mogis.
@vike996 I had this thought too, but the numbers are still slightly off and the real ones are a bit more complex to get to (prob dont have enough info).
P(dEA) =/= P(dEA | excitebike hasn't been picked yet), which is your error here. The 94.8% is still made up of races where dEA is an ineligible track to begin with, so it seems quite likely to me that it actually is played in a bit over 50%.
@@HDRookie ok you made me do the actual maths, assume that P is the number we get on Ito's website which represents how often the track is picked overall. Assume that T is the probability of the track being picked on race 1 of the mogi when there are no restrictions of track choice.
We can show that P is the sum from i = 0 to 11 of (T*(1-T)^i)/12. If we plug in the value of P = 0.052 for dEA and solve for T, we can find that T = 0.078.
We can then put this T value back into the formula I posted earlier to get back the probability that dEA occurs in a given mogi is 62.3%. This does not account for the fact that the probability of T will be higher for each successive race as other tracks have been eliminated from contention though, but it's too complicated to factor that in.
@vike996 The variance of T is why I didn't bother with wanting to do the Calc. But this overall number still seems a bit closer to what the actual percentage is for sure. That being said, I think it is absurd for a track to be played in over 3/5 of all mogis. Point doesn't change haha
7:41 JOHN BRUH MENTIONED 🗣
for this exact reason, excitebike arena is number 96 in my track ranking.
I try not to let outside opinions influence my own. But track fatigue is a real thing for sure.
I just pick tracks that have the best music lol
so real
Sydney Spirit & Dolphin Shoals enjoyers: 🕺🏻🎷
Moonview Highway and BC3 fans:
@@OrangeToadGamer i will always say that Sydney Sprint's song sounds like Specialist from Persona 4
i’d pick neo bowser city every time then lol
I think you should do this for battle mode tracks. I relate much more to that than the normal races
Nobody really plays battle mode anymore because there wasnt dlc for it
I don't really participate in the battle mode server, so I don't think I'd be able to give an accurate reflection of what is picked over there. That being said, with only 8 stages, I imagine all of them get plenty of playtime.
@@HDRookie yeah, of all 8, only about 3 are top tier too. In reality, I just wanted you to hate on lunar colony
I agree with most of this video. the one thing that frustrates me is, as you alluded to .. is anyone picking sky high sundae, baby park, excite bike arena cu, they think theyre at an advantage? i dont think so. those courses feel like a randomizer, which i suppose is strategy itself. Granted, i just got into the game and havent even hit 10k yet, nevermind started playing lounge.
At least I actually like how SHS looks and feels
Actually, yes. Especially Excitebike, it requires a lot of skill. The issue with it in particular is that it surprises nobody.
Sky High Sundae though, I agree, os simplistic. Somehow though, the players who have practiced it still seem to get better results though. Wouldn't be my go to track personally, but it can work.
In my personal experience, certain courses that always get picked are…
Bangkok Rush - Why?! It’s horrible!
Squeaky Clean Sprint - I get why everyone likes it, but I just can’t get into it. I don’t find it fun to drive on.
Wii Rainbow Road - Now that is S tier
Honestly, the best advice I can give for playing online is… don’t pick Baby Park
I rarely ever play Bangkok tbh. I don't really mind it though
I fucking love SCS
It is easier to blame the tracks for being bad than to review whatever misplays or improvements were made. Luck, comeback potential, broken sets/shortcuts, sections prone to item-spam, even opinions on good tracks would deteriorate when the results aren't good. Save for competitive players who only complains when they don't do well or certain tracks get picked.
This is an underrated factor in all of this. Tracks do matter, but when players blame the game, they can't effectively throw any ideas of track strategy out the window saying that the reason they lost lies elsewhere.
I'd like a more indepth video on the nuances of each course's advantages personally 🤔
This would be hard. There are many tracks that are probably underexplored. Wario Stadium and N64 Rainbow Road's advantage os just a bit more obvious
@@HDRookie Fair enough
just thought a video/series would put a spotlight on underutilized maps
@@dariusbrawl3759 there's a lot I could say still, but I sint want to pretend to be an expert where I'm not is all. Got a lot of other projects to focus on first as well
@@HDRookie Fair enough
Low key high level mk8d culture is hella annoying
There's a lot of bad regarding it. But also a lot of good, TBH.
im curious on your thoughts on the topic in terms of 6v6. I feel like the discussion would be difference since I feel like its less of a discussion about laziness and more of a discussion about understanding and playing to capabilities, but Id find the topic interesting none the less. It also gives the room to talk about trainbow, which i think is kind of an anomaly since I believe it is the only track to really offer an advantage for bottom spots at large.
I def don't agree that Trainbow is the only option - but it is a polarizing one. I would argue that Tokyo is just as strong as a bottom spot runner as well, and there are plenty of shroom up courses in this game as well. I do plan to address this in the next vid I do though. I want to take a look at the history of counterpicking in 6v6, how Trainbow fits into that, if the game needs it, etc. But yeah, definitely a bit to talk about with 6v6 specifically.
i don't know a whole lot about competitive mario kart 8 deluxe but wouldn't it be a good strategy to learn how to play all the city tracks and get really good at them? because i wouldnt imagine they get picked very much
Maybe. City tracks are definitely "noobslayer" courses. But all ranked players are still familiar with them. You'd have to work a bit for an advantage, like with any track, really.
If I got brutally Mario Kart’s in the last race and GCN Baby Park’s in the selection for the next race, I’m picking it. Not because I want to play it in an online competitive setting, but rather to send a message.
Question. What if older MK skill based mechanics make a comeback. As to my understanding MK Wii is the only game where bikes were involved in the meta. Also my favourite thing about MK Wii was chain wheelies. I think with current drifting Mechanics if you limit bikes mini turbo but allow chain wheelies it co be a fair balance. Also playing the balance mod for Wii is amazing and is shocking that the main developers didn’t consider it for future MK titles
Well they have balanced Deluxe a decent amount. The skill based driving mechanics of MKDS and prior were a bit of a gatekeeper for casual players to truly get into the series I think as well.
Also, bikes are more than relevant in 8D's meta. By far the best balance they've ever had between karts and bikes here.
excitebike is a bottom 2 track for me lol
I didn't know there Was a Meta for Track Picking I just Assume People Just Like the Track they are Picking For Me I like All the Tracks some more then Others Of Course but Even If I Pick My Favorite Track in the Game I Try to Not Repeat my Track Pick and At Least Play a Track I haven't played that Day tho Doing it Online Is Really Hard based on How Often Tracks Appear Online then Others (Some Feels Like they Rarely Come up for some reason) I Like Random Offline then Online because Online there is Always a Chance it'll Repeat a Track where Offline It Never Repeats a Track
I pick excitebike because it’s fun. I really like playing on excitebike arena.
You can join the pink gold peach mains in hell. That is where you will learn
@@bitstimandwesker8896 I main Waluigi landship. Not for any stats, I just really like Waluigi and also I really like pirates
I have an idea for your videos. Why not sharing some of your nitro track ideas for Mario Kart 9?
Hmm, I don't know. That might be a little too creative for me. But I have had thoughts about making custom tracks before. Maybe one day!
Great vid! One note: Is it not in popular course metagamers best interest to propagate the picking of these courses and gatekeep the picking of rare "specialty" courses? The more they play them, the more catch-up other players need to do. It can be seen as optimal to whine about other players choosing other courses that the whiners aren't good on.
It is a decent gameplan and optimal for people who don't want to practice. It's pretty toxic for the health of the game though and limiting of player potential, imo.
@@HDRookie oh yea definitely
Bubbles/Bummdo mention :D
I always picked SNES Rainbow Road every time in MK7 online just to mess with people
You would've driven me insane. That track was so overpicked on worldwide 😅
dp3 mentioned
When the other 2 tracks are amazing and then the other track is Water Park
And then Water Park gets chosen
Hey, you can do a lot worse than Water Park still (imo)
When the random picks excitebike to race on, you know you might as well just touch grass
Haven't watched the vid but I assume Excite Bike is picked because it's simple. I'd argue most players are super casual and it's just a loop with some jumps and hills and minimal shortcuts where better players can abuse the worse players who don't know shortcuts or can't do them well. The only shortcuts are taking the turns in the grass with an item but most casual players would know that anyways. Mushroom Gorge idk...better players know the shroom cut at the end, and casuals just like to bounce a lot?
This may be accurate for worldwide races, but ranked players definitely like it for other reasons
everything you said was true
Not a Lounge player but I have around 14k VR from Worldwides iirc, I’ve got to ask, why is Wario’s Gold Mine the least picked track? I see it a fair amount online
Small edit, I absolutely despise Baby Park, Excitebike, and Ribbon Road, but I’ve always enjoyed Sky High Sundae and Wario Stadium. And yes, as an inside bike user, the cuts on Mushroom Gorge are nearly impossible for me atm
Gold Mine definitely is one of the more simple tracks in the game. But I actually do think it's underexplored, especially in the new meta
im also inward bike and to increase your chance to pass the gap jump, using a star and a shroom helps a lot
to take this cut you need a lot of speed, it's still possible with one single shroom but way more difficult than without the star (or without using a speed centered combo, like a heavy character for example)
and i'm not talking about the one jumping over the fence because i've passed it like 3 times in my whole life lmao
also if you happen to gap jump, make sure to take the habit to activate your smart steering because you probably won't be able to make a turn before ending blocked in the rocks at the bottom of the wall on the roads right, it makes you lose a LOT of time because you'll have to drive backwards on the grass it's way slower than not jumping and you'll lose a lot of spots
mks for life 🗣️🗣️
good video tho good work rookie
Nothing wrong with MKS, as long as you're actually good at it and not just defaulting to it 👍
this but on mute city people need to stop hating
okay, so the mogi lb of tracks is just the ones with the best shortcuts, or are straight forward... who would've known
I wouldn't categorize any course as a mogi course still. At the end of the day, the community decides what is and isn't. And there is reason to question what's currently popular
I don't understand why people despise waluigi pinball it's litteraly one of the best tracks and the best version of the track imo
I think people are just lazy and want to stay in their comfort zone and keep spaming tracks they play since forever
This track in particulair has been praised past death online, so I’m guessing it’s an overexposure thing
I always get screwed by the pinballs at the end tbh. Until I watched this video I didn’t know they had a consistent pattern
Both pinballs have an opposite pattern to each other. They only will hit 1 of the flippers every time. It can easily be studied, but sometimes the timing makes it hard. I like having a track that makes you adapt to a changing factor like that though, it makes the track feel dynamic, imo.
I of course agree, but I think the track has been insanely good in every game it's been in. While popular casually, it seems that popularity just hasn't translated to comp play which is strange considering it has really high potential in comp, imo.
wait do 8dx comp players differentiate teams using different colored yoshis
Sometimes, but there's no rule for that. Often, playing as the same color can confuse opponents, but sometimes teams just prefer sticking to a specific one out of their own personal comfort.
okay but music park is the best track
Music Park is great
Wave 6 grades when
Its been half a year
I actually wrote some notes down about it today. Probably some time after Momocon next weekend.
If i ever even see excitebike in the track selection, I'm outta that lobby. It's genuinely a horrible track and I don't get the popularity.
Again. I don't think the track is the problem. It's the track's perception
Not liking a fan-favorite track is okay.
Not Understanding why people like a fan-favorite track is not.
personally i enjoy excitebike
LFG
I feel like this wont happen as much in lower tiers ef-f because i've seen a lot of people that just dont know the strats, so if you learn them, you could get ahead. also 12:50 how dare you🤓🤓🤓
I would say learning tracks definitely helps even more in those lower tiers for this very reason
4:25 incredibles reference???
He was spitting bars with that line. If everyone has superpowers, what makes them so super?
I bet people pick Excitebike Arena because it’s a meme now
i like tricking on excitebike circuit give me a break
nah, i choose baby park for the skill
insanity
hi
Yo
hi rookie
what is up, iP0STcomments
bshs good
So people who choose random course option are lazy and have no originality? Wow. Say ur arrogant without saying ur arrogant. Maybe someone chooses random cause they dont care the track because they like all the tracks and confident in their abilities in any track. Your something else. 😒
If that's what you want to classify me as, then sure, but I think it would be a misrepresentation.
Depends on the setting I think. Picking random is fun for the surprise element, but I definitely don't see it as a legitimate strategy for trying your best to win. Even in a world where a player is equally skilled on every track (doubtful), it won't be true of one's opponents.
Often, the track that maximizes your odds of winning will change over time and depend on your opponents. With that said, I also understand many people don't play in the lounge queue I'm discussing and casual play is cool too. Part of what made the all cup tour back in Double Dash fun was not knowing the track order.
@@HDRookieThere u go assuming being arrogant again. I don't casual play. And I main worldwide specifically enjoy nightly Japanese lobbies. Doesn't matter the track that's why I do choose random, any track chosen I can be successful in winning with no problem because I know my abilities. And if I lose I lose. So what I'm saying isn't misinterpretation of ur video. This whole video was u either calling the Mario kart community lazy or u saying they have no strive let alone original ideas and should only choose meta easily able to win tracks. So yeah, u are arrogant. Majority of u mk RUclipsrs are, not a shocker to seeing another one. Not everyone in the Mk community has to be a Beta Meta Player to win.
@@nicoleschannel329 Did you... watch the video? I literally advocate for not spamming the "meta" courses and argue that the most advantageous track for someone to pick is likely going to constantly shift depending on what your opponents aren't practiced on. I would think that this idea would be appealing to someone who prides themselves on their versatility and ability to win on any track in the game.
Our definitions of casual and competitive are clearly different. When I refer to someone as a casual player, that is not something that is done in any demeaning way. I am a casual player in many of the games I play, personally. Casual players still have an interest in winning of course, that is the object of any multiplayer game for the most part. Competitive players tend to be more driven by trying to win though. There are simply many more means for competition styled play outside of a worldwide setting. Maybe our definitions don't agree, but just focusing on winning a bunch of individual worldwide races I would call a very different setting from online lounge games. Neither are inherently better or worse than the other, but I think it's more than fair to classify them differently.
mario circuit 3 is so bad online
I used to enjoy watching competitive content on YT but the more I watched, MK8D started to feel like a 20-track, 4-character/combo game. Commentary on competitive videos also became so predictable where you know exactly which tracks they will complain about as if they are expecting anything different going into these mogis.
Personally I prefer playing 6v6 for this reason, you get more control over what is selected collectively as a team and it allows you to actually experiment rather than just sitting in the back and complaining about others lol
I despise meta players since they actively make the game unfun for us casual players. But comparing track selection to a fighting game?! I'm sorry, did you smoke too many Golden Mushrooms before recording? Because that comparison makes zero sense to me.
Mario Kart is just meant to be a fun casual game (hence the item system), it's not suppose to be taken seriously as something like Smash. Go play something like Grand Turismo if you want a purely skill based racing game or just go play Smash if you want to 'counterpick' your opponents.
So much to unpack here. Let's try to go one by one.
How a game is 'meant' to be played is not particularly relevant. If players have a certain way to gain enjoyment out of a game, good for them.
Gran Turismo holds little to no interest to me. It is a completely different game. I enjoy the driving elements in Mario Kart, but I also enjoy the items on top of it. They make it much more interesting to me, because races force you to interact with your opponents / try to hit them. I don't play this game to just time trial online. I like it for a multitude of reasons, in which driving is one factor.
For the record, Smash was designed as a party game also, with items on as well. Your entire perception of it being a serious game is because the community, like ours, has turned it into a game that is played that way. At its core, it was designed to be a casual 4 player couch game with items, chaos, smash balls, etc. It's cool that there are players that play it in a different ways, and it is competitively deep too. But the same actually goes for MK.
The presence of RNG does not make a game inherently uncompetitive. A matter of fact, understanding risk and how it works requires a lot of skill. Turning items off would make the game not worth playing in my mind. Traditional racing games aren't a replacement. Perhaps GT is more skill oriented, but it doesn't make it necessarily more worth playing.
As long as Smash players or MK players aren't ruining the game for others, I don't see the issue. I don't go online to play top combinations in worldwide, I stick to private lobbies if I want to play to win. I understand that many people play this game for different reasons, and I want to be respectful to all types of players.
I don't pick MK to counterpick players either - this was an analogy to FGC if anything. If I am trying to win, I'm going to pick my best courses. If my opponents aren't strong on that track, it is likely to remain my best track until opponents get better on it. That often just happens for tracks that aren't commonly played though.