I have no interest in politics, but this video is really well done. I like that you used Mario Kart to get your ideas across and I’d like to see more videos in this style :)
Gotta know what the home crowd wants. I def wouldn't do political content, but I see this as more adjacent to it than actual political content. I think at the end of the day, knowledge of alternative systems is very important to get into the mainstream mindset. The point is, we don't always have to limit ourselves. I'm glad you could enjoy this topic despite it not being something you probably expected to engage with when starting the day 😊
With the Minecraft Mob Vote, I often see comments complaining about how people never seem to like the winner despite voting for it. What these people don't consider is that the mob votes are always extremely close, only a few % difference between each choice. Because only 1/3 is selected, what ends up happening is that ~60% or so ended up never wanting the winner to begin with, well over half of the players voting.
That is the premise of RCV in a sense - a winner must hit a majority in the end. The thing is, whether or not that majority is actually a true one is a different question. STARs runoff technically forces a majority also between 2 popular candidates.
Another thing is people are left to guess aspects like how good will the wolf armor from armadillos be or how far away will the crab claw let you place blocks and will it let you place them from that distance too or do you get the claw by killing it. I am guilty of this when I voted crab since I thought the crab could also drop crab legs if added and it would be a simple thing to add in. Like how the armadillo and wolf armor was paired with more wolf breeds.
There is a quote that goes "perfect is the enemy of good" and that applies a lot here, it is easy to get hung up on all the problems that face other types of voting systems and easy to forget that they are all better options that the one the U.S. uses know.
Yeah, it almost feels harsh to criticize RCV for being broken, when the system we have already is broken. That said, we probably should just be arguing for the alternatives that truly work.
Thats also a good quote for when people don't vote. They go "Well Kamala Harris still isn't amazing so I'm not gonna vote" but that just means they're letting someone infinitely worse win
Another issue with the "other" option that wasn't mentioned is that it also takes more effort for both the candidate and the voter to vote for it, because the voter needs to care enough about the candidate to both remember and consider them unprompted, and that means that the candidate needs to stand out a lot more. The overall video does a great job showing why there's a lot more than just that going on and strategic voting probably is where the issue starts, but the extra effort involved in being perfectly honest would likely exascerbate it
BREAKING NEWS: Mario Kart players organise in large numbers to advocate for electoral reform! Jokes aside, this is a really good video, thank you for putting this our there! I've known that voting was kinda messed up but I didnt know about the STAR system until now, and I think it would work quite well especially here the UK where voting for third parties is alot less of a waste than in the states lol. Getting something like this passed is difficult because the people in charge at any given time are usually the people it would benefit the least, but if enough people are educated and want this it would be a seriously good change.
You nailed it on the head haha. This issue would be one of the only ones our major parties would be aligned on. That said, their arguments don't hold up to scrutiny very well. It's easy to make fun of them for being against it, because the claim is that they know they're unpopular and not representative. Unironically we might have to taunt them a bit to try to get them to prove they're pro-people.
Great video, super well articulated, bringing up an extremely important topic that not enough people care about in a way that’s easy to understand. Being a part of the sample size made me love this video a lot too, because I had no idea it was gonna be used for this and I absolutely loved it
Really great video! I like how you frame (at least part of) the video by emphasizing the importance of semantic reflection (i don't know how to say it -- basically that the action, here, voting, is doing what it says it is doing; for voting, representing how people feel on things). I find it difficult when the words being used to describe things have accumulated other meanings or intentions. What I understand as you clarifying the action of voting by decentering strategic voting from it's mechanics is what I'm gesturing at. I don't know how to say it but I liked the video :D
I think I understand what you're saying here. The idea of "strategic" voting is inherently disingenuous, and we've let the system take us away from what it's original purpose was. The sad reality is that establishing FPTP early on was probably a mistake originally, but an easy one to make. George Washington even had a warning about the two party system in our country, and how he saw it as perhaps a natural evolution of FPTP. That said, we didn't really listen very well it seems. Hopefully we can self correct over time, but it is hard to get stuff done with this level of division within the country. Holding out hope though that we can actually get back to the basics (answering honestly) by embracing what's difficult (a deeper system itself).
I think another thing to touch on with the "other" category is that voting for it didn't really feel like you were actually voting for your course but all the other available courses. This is becuase even though your choice was recognised in the comment it wasn't reflected in the poll for example. If the "other" category one but most people voted for Excite Bike Arena but you hate that course and in the "other" category you were actually voting for Thomp Ruins it would feel as if your vote was misplaced since you helped something you disagree with win.
Could definitely see that - weirdly, there's a lot of dishonest methods you can use to incentivize certain responses. Even in the question wording sometimes🫣
@@HDRookie As someone in Psychology who has done some research stuffs, this is an ever-present issue with research methodology-namely surveys. Question wording, order of questions, how many qustions, the order of options, the scaling of options (think: absurd hypothetical daily sleep survey where options are 1hour of sleep, 2 hours of sleep, 3 hours of sleep, and 4 or more hours of sleep)... it's a whole thing. Even with no immediate incentive to answer dishonestly, there are so many things that can unintentionally skew answers.
Vivian is awesome. STAR is not perfect, so don't go with the assumption that's it's infallible of course. That said, I think it limits any downsides incredibly well.
hi!!! your video appeared on my feed and i clicked it bc i saw luigi on it, haha!!! but it was a nice video, your research is summarized in such a way that anyone can understand it, and i liked that u applied it with mario kart related stuff since it's simpler to comprehend. good luck to everyone up there with their voting, im mexican so i cannot do much, but i wish u the best! keep it up and thanks!
Hey, thanks for the words. Really though, it's not just a USA thing also - this applies to really any election, or any poll or any of that. Glad you enjoyed the video though!
I just wanted to comment that this is a damn good video. Your ability to explain voting systems using MarioKart as an example made it easily digestible. It’s like if TierZoo made videos about politics using MarioKart instead of zoology using video game terminology.
I never thought about it that way, but I like the comparison! It's probably for the best if you have a certain type of audience, but want to dabble with a new genre for a video.
one interesting thing is that whenever people discuss voting, the first thought isn't just voting in politics, but voting for a president which kind of, is the exception of how polls work. People care about their favourite president winning, or at least there's a large group of people who are very passionate about this, and one candidate may have a more active group of supporters. While, in every other area of life, people are just kind of handled a poll with options to choose and they may not care about it all that much. In terms of that mario, luigi and etc voting, people don't really care about who would "win", and if there is some complexity they're much more likely to just choose a random option.
Yeah, the stakes are lower, so it'll never be exactly one to one. Can't do anything about voter strategy and all that, you just have to send them the hypothetical best system and hope it works. Probably best if the poll captures a topic that the sample group tends to care about.
I love this because it's like the CGP Grey video on the animal kingdom voting, but with the characters I love! And also in more detail because you did polls of your own in this video
This was an amazing video! Thanks for introducing me to STAR voting, as well as proving to me that Mario Kart players will do anything to avoid the random chance that Excite Bike or MooMoo meadows get picked for the 100th time over the other actual maps, even create a political reform movement.
I mean if you're seeking more honest approaches in voting, you could try 1 on 1 voting, or voting for individual characters (scoring) and then adding up the totals when comparing and contrasting. You could ask for expression alongside the votes as it helps clear up honesty. Ofc you could also be less specific when referring to the class of the vote. In theory, these should all dim out or make strategic voting less applicable because it's harder. It will likely take longer to get a final anwser however. There is many formulae for votings, and they're all likely to be different, but at the end of the day, it's good exposure and explanation because a lot of people could be unaware of this. Good video Rookie. 👍 P.S. I knew you'd pick bWP, I KNEW IT-
This was a very interesting and practical demonstration of this idea, thank you. I hadn't heard of STAR voting before, and it's very interesting to learn about. ...Also my Mario Kart pick was a Pianta with color selection, like Shy Guy and Yoshi have.
On the "Greatest of All Time" ranking it also is important that the framing of "Greater" compared to "Favorite" it does account for legacy/significance rather than personal preference. My "Favorite" Roman Emperor is not who I would say is the "Greatest" Roman Emperor. It's a difference between "someone who I think I would get along with, who I would like to talk to, who I would want to support if given the option" versus "someone I would want to live under."
That's fair also. I do think that is a prevalent issue though, many people interpret the question differently to begin with. Most deserving vs best is always a contentious topic. It's funny how election night had no company on this regard. The college football playoff rankings reveal last night are always based on this debate as well.
Whilst this video is *mostly* about finding the winner of a poll, it is worth mentioning that in the context of elections, only determining who is the most popular isn't necessary. In Denmark, we have a proportional voting system, where any party that gets at least 2% of the vote sees some level of representation in the government, more the more votes it gets, and whichever party gets the most votes makes whatever coalitions are necessary with its most like-minded parties to reach around 50% of the parliament. This system basically completely removes strategic voting, since the party you voted for doesn't have to win to benefit from your vote (though, specifically in our system, if you voted for a party that gets less than 2% of the vote, your vote is "lost", but that isn't inherent to proportional voting systems).
Really didnt expect that pivit but as someone who loves Mario Kart AND hates the current political voting system, it was amazing and a very interesting conversation! Thank you for exploring those subjects, the star system is way more interesting than I thought!
As mentioned, strategic voting is everywhere, maybe we even do it without realizing it when we open this app and see the polls 🤷♀️ All we can do is try to learn from it and try to find the systems that minimize it!
This is something that I really thought of and have a suggestion that I haven’t seen replicated: The Dorkly Madness bracket. The Madness bracket, which I think it’s pretty known, is the type of poll that the website UwUFufu used to become popular. Two options are pitted against each other and the loser is discarded. Then a second round comes with all the winners of the first round against each other in pairs and so on. Now, the defunct geek website Dorkly had, I think, a great idea for a madness bracket. There are no rounds in this version but let’s say my 1st and 2nd favorite Mario character are up first. In Dorkly madness I’ll pick the 1st favorite character and the 2nd one gets a strike and is reshuffled in the mix. This way, you can have a matchup later with say your 2nd favorite and 7th favorite in which the 2nd wins and gets a point. I don’t know how the system of points worked at all but I think it’s the closest to a perfect ranking This Dorkly Madness bracket should be recreated somehow cause all other systems, unless they’re very detailed, don’t give a good ranking to individual players. This system will obviously have your 1st favorite at the top but it also has the approximation of the options in 2nd, 3rd, etc. That’s why I think it’s the best system of polling/ranking/whatever. I really wish it was used by other websites at all.
@hahaoriginal6921 I think I vaguely remember this. And it is the flaw with single elim brackets: they only find the correct winner hypothetically, 2nd place could actually not even be popular. Double Elimination also helps with this, but it kind of sounds like this was reminiscent of it.
i’ve wanted raphael the raven in mk for SO long and the worst part is that is feels like it could happen, i loved the part in paper mario 64 with him as a kid
i cant believe mario tricked me into a video about voting systems xD great video dude, i don't live in the US but i turn 18 next year and the idea of doing more research into politics/voting etc isn't something i look forward to tbh, but it's gotta be done this made it all seem a little less daunting :)
@@Vexoned She came from the concept of Metal Mario, as in "if there's a metallic mario, what would a metallic peach look like?" Just like how baby Rosalina came from the concept of the baby Mario, Luigi, and Peach.
"People might complain that they'll have to do more research on the candidates" Weeellll let me tell you something. Back in...May, April, March, whenever the Kentucky primaries were, I got my primary ballot and stood my ass at the voting booth and I stood there and stood there and stood there, phone in hand, browser open to Ballotpedia and any other information sources, looking up every single candidate on that ballot that I wasn't already familiar with (which was Basically Everyone aside from like...Biden maybe because adblock + not watching normal broadcast TV much meant I wasn't getting blasted with campaign ads). I did my damn research right then and there, and I'm pretty sure if this were an urban polling place on the main election day and I wasn't literally the only voter there at that time I'd've gotten kicked out for taking too damn long. But I did my damn research regardless, and if I can take that time so can anyone else. Hell, it prolly woulda been better to research before heading out to the poll in the first place, but I can never remember when the primaries are until like the day before and I am a distract 6_9
Yeah, prior knowledge is typically the way to go. I think when it comes to stuff like presidential elections though, the candidates typically should not be a surprise. I do understand that research becomes a bit more difficult at the local level.
@@HDRookie I mean, I can't exactly remember who the primary dem options for president were, but yeah the final president options are Never a surprise. And while this ballot I voted all dems for obvious self-preservation reasons (and also I'm registered as such, as obvious because being in a state where your primary options are restricted to your party), I remember for one of the local ones in my area, I think it was school board? All non-partisan too, not that common from what I've seen in my time voting. Point being, that was the only one I had No lead on and None of the candidates seemed to have any internet presence.
You know when I was a kid in school and the teacher wanted to see what movie we wanted to watch, it was never worth keeping up with making sure each person only voted for one movie. If you got to vote for every movie, more often people were happy with the choice.
I highly recommend looking up Arrow’s impossibility Theorem and Gibbard’s theorem. They are social science theorems basically state that there is no perfect voting system that is also truly reflects the cumulative choice of the community. I’m over-generalizing on the specifics of those theorems, but it can be important context to the overall discussion of voting to remind everyone that no system of voting will be 100% perfect
I have, and understand. That said, I do think we can do better than others. A goal should be strategic success being equally as likely as strategic backfire. STAR at least gets pretty close in that regard
@@HDRookie I completely understand your position, and I mostly agree with your conclusion based on your evidence. I mostly mentioned the theorems to see if you’ve heard of them; however, I think it’s still an important point when talking about voting systems because i think we can always do better. There might be a better voting system to use in a different context or even a system that has yet to be invented.
@@HDRookie There is a system that is strategyproof despite Gibbard's theorem etc, and it is essentially unique. It works like this: after ballots are cast, select one at random, and the top choice on that ballot wins the election (sometimes called "random dictatorship"). While it's not suited to electing a president* or youtube polls, it's good when used to elect a lot of members (e.g. the house of representatives), since the randomness averages out. Of course, it is random, which understandably gives most people pause, but it also solves all common problems people have with voting: it gives proportional representation (on average), makes gerrymandering impossible and is completely strategyproof. Plus, like I said, it's essentially unique: the math is begging us to use it. *technically, the US doesn't elect the president, and the electoral college is big enough for the randomness to average out... but still probably a bad idea.
something that i feel also exacerbates strategic voting in youtube polls is the fact that you can immediately change your vote after seeing the results, so you don't need to guess what the "right" choice would be. i'll sometimes be between two options and then change my mind after seeing the numbers. anyways, congrats on tricking me into watching and enjoying a video about american politics through mario kart analogies LOL
You're 100% right. There have been times where I'm interested in seeing the results and I click something and unclick it. There have been times where I have selected something after the fact solely because I find it to be underrated and deserving of more support, even if it's not necessarily my first option.
I'm only 3 minutes into this video as of the time of writing this but your opening thought experiment made me realize that Tron might be perfect for a fighting game like Smash Bros actually: - lots of potential for a unique and interesting moveset (I think so anyway, although admittedly I don't know shit about the movesets in Smash) - good canon options to draw from for alternate costumes (mostly just different circuit colors, but still) - he's canonically an incredibly proficient fighter so he wouldn't be out of place in a fighting game - could come with a stage themed after the arena from Tron: Legacy, which would look cool as hell, not to mention the soundtrack possibilities for said stage - idk i just like him - in conclusion put my boy Tron in the next smash bros game I think he deserves it
@foolofdaggers7555 Glad I could help in this super specific way. It does sound like you like Tron a lot if he came to mind so quickly. Knee-jerk reactions are often honest ones!
That's what I thought Why am I watching a video about alternative voting systems while also watching just a liking mario kart guy's vid. Great content. I will send this vid to people when explaining those voting systems.
It seems like you could rig star voting with anti-spoilers. If Group A at around 46% of the population ranks C1 and C2 as 5, and the rest as 0, and Group B at 54% ranks C3 and C4 as 5 and 4 evenly distributed, then ranks C2 and C1 as 0 and 1 evenly distributed, those may indicate their preferences, but the runoff will be between C1 and C2 due to the lack of 5s for C3 and C4, and extra 1s for C1 and C2. If either C1 or C2 dropped out then the runoff would be with either C3 or C4, and either one would win against C1 or C2. With star voting it seems the best strategy is to vote 5 for the candidate you like who has a chance, 0 for any candidate you dislike, and then 5 for your actual preference. That strategy dominating would turn it back into approval voting.
Your voice do matter, the small ideas may take long, but they can achieve greater heights. It only takes a single conversation to changes someones view about anything
Ultimately, this is why the upload was necessary. I just needed to change one perspective. Early returns are showing we mightve reached even more, so that is very promising
Rookie you are one of the best RUclips content creators out there! Really love your videos - I enjoy that they are longer too. I like to have them streaming on my second monitor as I work or surf the web! Wishing you continued luck. Really love your Mario kart content!
I really need to get back into shorter form content again, but I feel too many details in these videos now. I can only upload like once every 2 months now but I hope it's worth it! Thanks for the kind words 🙂
Pretty neat video, thanks for the content! Applying the concept to Mario Kart is nice. I think it takes away some of the initial bias/reactions related to anything in real life politics, and helps to keep the point of the video clear. Also... I've been of the opinion that FPTP can be pretty flawed for a long time, but STAR voting was new to me. Actually might look up some stuff on voting systems now. Thanks. :)
For sure. I think it's pretty legit. There are some electoral rules it breaks like Later No Harm, but no system can satisfy every criteria and be "perfect". I think this limits the impact of tactical voting pretty well though, and makes the most warranted sacrifices.
Hammer Bro, Count Bleck, Dementio, Chargin Chuck, ROB, and OG SNES Mario/DK Junior. The characters needed to be added to the current MK8DX+BCP roster for MK9. And then it’s perfect
The advantage of first past the post is that all of these questions have to be asked and answered before voting, coalitions must be made and common ground achieved even before voting starts, giving the vote more nuance that what it would look like at first glance. That's why toy examples don't work for first past the post.
Real world examples don't work very well for FPTP either - it's why voting has become such a widely stated unsatisfying experience, and why we always say "lesser of two evils". Its only advantage is simplicity, but the price we're paying for that is well... not representative of the opinions of the public.
I have the craziest voting system that only works for a representative democracy, so for something like Mario Kart tracks it wouldn't work. It's a bit complicated but I call it Inverse Ternary Hierarchy or Inverse Ternary Tree if you prefer that. What you do is you put everyone who is voting/campaigning into one group (you need to be doing both in order to participate in this system) then randomly assign people into groups of three (lets call these class 0 for now) each group member chooses a leader to represent the three (or they protest and get swapped with others who are also protesting) then assign all class 0 leaders into groups of three again (call these groups class 1) have them choose a leader and assign them into groups of 3 (class 2) and repeat over and over until all groups are connected or to stubborn to merge any further. It doesn't have to be 3 it can be whatever size you want but smaller is better and three was chosen to prevent exact ties. If this thing works it would connect every person on earth in only 21 layers. (that means at most you would only have to get to know about 42 people) It has its flaws but what system doesn't have flaws; however its potential benefits are absurd imagine you have a personal problem and you are looking for someone to help you solve it you could ask your group and then if no one in the group is appropriate to help you your leader can take it to one class higher then that group can repeat navigating down or up classes until they finally find someone. I know implementing it would be very difficult but at the very least I can see this being used to run a workers union. As you said first past the post works so long as you have a good way of narrowing it down to the best two candidates and this system is essentially exclusively that in both ways over and over again in theory getting better candidates and people who are better at choosing a candidate with every increase in class. I know I may not know the correct terms and such but I can't seem to find if anyone anywhere has tried a system like this and honestly (and I may be a bit full of myself here but) I think I may have came up with the single most optimal way to solve everyone problems, it's at the very least worth giving it a shot. So if you can make sense of what I am saying please spread the word around and try and get others to do the same.
This is an interesting idea, but I may need to see the math in an example or drawn out better. Unironically, it could work in the MK8 Community itself even when electing moderators. On a large scale, it seems a bit complicated and a too involved process to get much support for an actual campaign. But I guess it sounds like you're finding a way to get people to be honest about who is most capable of solving a problem.
@@HDRookie I thought about making a video on this but I have no prior experience so I would have to hire someone to help me out (I do have someone specific in mind) and I might be a bit too much of a perfectionist when I need to just focus on getting something out there. I know implementing this is a logistical nightmare especially on a large scale, people without access to the internet pose a serious issue that needs to be overcome, there is the question of how to handle someone "dropping out" or new people joining; but what system isn't a nightmare. I am not going to lie this is the first time I have presented this idea to anyone. (The only exception being my brother who showed little interest.)
This is a council democracy, basically? Except you're using arbitrary allotments of three instead of interest groups and administrative districts to form the basis, which... might be a weakness, might be an improvement. So the good news is that someone has already thought of this. The bad news is that it didn't quite work out as well as might be hoped, but perhaps as long as you avoid appointing Stalin General Secretary you may have more luck? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_democracy
@@basedeltazero714 I mean even in that article it says "the local levels of society remained largely participatory". A lot of the "problems" seem to be unrelated to the democracy, in fact I would argue it was because the communists posed a threat to the real "problem" overtaking everything that they were the first to be taken out. I still think this is extremely different from communism (especially since there is a lot more to it that I haven't mentioned) but if it was so quickly identified as the first threat to fascism, maybe communism isn't so bad. As of now I think a threat to fascism is exactly what is needed. I won't lie though; this comparison has me scared, not because I think it "won't work" but because I think it threatens the status quo too well and the rich and powerful will do everything in their power to stop it; I always knew deep down that it would happen but if there are actually this many comparisons to communism I will have a much greater uphill battle to prove this as a good thing than I previously thought, because that is probably the single greatest "ism" that people don't understand and believe to be an abject failure.
@@GAHAHAHH Oh I didn't mean that as a detriment at all. The Soviet Union did much with a very bad hand - let's not forget they arose from an extraordinarily repressive absolute monarchy, the backwater of Europe, and made themselves a world-leading industrial power. That doesn't mean they were 'true communism' or didn't do bad things, they did, but it does mean that perhaps we should look at the things they did with a critical eye, not a dismissive one. Also... a lot of people agree with the principles right up until they hear the c word.
Thank you for such an interesting video. My prior experience was mostly with preference-ballot methods (Borda, Copeland, Hare, . . .) and not with star voting methods, as this is enough to talk about Arrow's Theorem and the like. If you want more reading material about voting theory/social choice theory in general (as opposed to star voting in specific), perhaps the next step would be Jordan Ellenberg's *How Note to Be Wrong: The Power of Mathematical Thinking*, Chapters 17 (and a bit of 18), which lays out some of the voting methods and paradoxical situations in an approachable way. A more thorough (but more demanding) text would be Alan D. Taylor and Allison M. Pacelli's *Mathematics and Politics: Strategy, Voting, Power, and Proof*. Also, just to give a little bit of translation between the social-choice-theory language and ordinary language: (At about 11:12): Ballots where you give a first choice, second choice, etc. are called preference ballots. They can be used in various voting methods, either in the method discussed, or in methods assigning a point value to each rank, or in counting head-to-head matchups. (At about 11:32) The elimination method discussed in ranked-choice voting is called the Hare method. The Coombs method is the alternative rule where you eliminate the candidates with the most last-place votes per round. (At about 18:17) This examples shows that the Hare Method (Ranked-Choice Voting) violates Monotonicity: changes in favor of a candidate on individual ballots can cause the candidate to do worse overall. (Monotonicity is basically the assertion that this can't happen -- you cannot reduce a candidate's social ranking by improving the candidate's ranking on individual ballots.)
Very informative stuff, and thank you for sharing some sources. 🙂 The last place elimination thing is interesting, but I also feel like it would still be susceptible to the exact same issues, no? I do think there is an argument to be made that a utilitarian approach is better for optimizing happiness at the end. Simple majority solutions can lead to selfish outcomes I think. For instance, there's a game out there. I forget the name. But there's 2 players and there's a round. If both players do nothing, they get 3 points. But if one attacks. They get 5 points, unless both attack where they both get 1. It's not a direct comparison but sometimes society would be best if we could all pick up 3s consistently, but if there's a majority who tries to see 5 as their best personal option, we will never maximize overall utility.
Clearly, the best option is round robin voting. Every candidate is compared to every other candidate on an individual basis, and the one with the most wins overall is the winner.
@HDRookie I mean, ideally you'd run individual votes for each possible pairing and compare the aggregate, but that's obvously impractical on anything other than very small scales. If you were serious about setting one up, but _not_ serious enough to just do a bunch of binary races all at once, I imagine a primary type preliminary to decide on a reasonable pool of candidates using another method would probably be the way to go.
i got distracted by the text at 26:44 because it feels so familier to me is that kdenlive video editor? something about that cyan + outline, the segoe ui font, that inner top right positioning with right align? feels very familiar to me. it's basic and common enough to be anything but it just vibes kdenlive
It's always hard to express this stuff since many people hate talking about the political process. Gotta just find your spots to share and inform though 🙂
@@HDRookie Absolutely. It's a really delicate art, and I appreciate the thought and work put into informing people! I'm gonna rewatch this and show my mom! I'll have fun explaining a lot of the Mario context, and my mom has wanted to learn more about alternative voting practices already anyway. 😁
Update: my mom LOVED the video! The only critique she has is specifically about the character names. Obviously, in the Mario gaming sphere, Mario, Luigi, Wario, and Waluigi are fully distinct, discrete characters. We wouldn't ever mix them up. Without visual cues, it was easy for my mom to get mixed up. That being said, this was a spot on video for your intended audience, and I wouldn't expect consideration for every possible iteration of audience. It was just an interesting perspective about something I took for granted: distinguishing characters with very similar names. This tickled me.
@@LuciustheDragon As much as I would've loved to make a general video, I just want to make sure the video has a chance to get viewed more than anything else, lol.
Or, hear my European butt out here for a sec, maybe it's a crazy idea that one person governs most of the most important decisions of a 330+ mil populated nation? With only two options to boot?! How about this; any amount of presidential candidates, everyone votes JUST their favourite, there are some nicely divisible like 120 or 144 or 150 seats, the votes simply get divided percentage-wise over the seats. Did one of the candidates receive 12% of the votes? Then their decisions for the next 4 years make up 14/120 presidential decision making power, for instance. Of course more goes into this, but what I'm saying is that a ministry without a single head of state would work a million times better. Just look at Netherland's, Japan's, or many other nations' systems of deciding a head of state.
This would be a little bit redundant because what you're describing already kinda exists in the form of Congress (though local FPTP elections still decide those seats, rather than proportional vote). It seems to be the same type of end goal. They check the president's power. That said, and I've tried to keep actual politics out of this video, there are many people wanting to expand the power of the president as is, by essentially allowing him to fire a bunch of people in our administrative state, to be replaced with president approved people. The people who work for these agencies are typically responsible for setting lots of the rules for the government at large. It is definitely alarming, I would say. I'm not saying your idea isn't better too, just want to add context.
@@HDRookie Ok I see this was out of the scope for this video, now. You do make a good point, and yes that does sound a teensy tiny bit quite alarming (^^;
If you're interested in learning more about different voting systems, I really recommend looking up Nicky Case! She's made a phenomenal interactive explainer. Everything else on her website is also amazing.
The problem with voting is that perfectly democratic vote is literally mathematically impossible. It's an inherently flawed system, and we have no choise but to try find the best compromises.
SPOILERS FROM ONE OF SCHAFFRILLAS' RECENT VIDEOS But Luigi is actually more popular than Mario, it said so in Schaffrillas' video talking about how popular every Mario character is.
I was thinking about Octoling Kid. because why just Inkling Kid? also i'd pick baby rosalina over PGP because i hate the reskins getting into mainline mario kart games and not just Tour.
You know, I ordinarily do not actually say it that way lol. I'm not sure why it came out that way but often I am focused on tone more than the script itself as I record. I think I might actually say it differently depending on if its being used as a noun/verb, but never have really thought about it before so idk for sure 🤔
![What Luigi Circuit Could Have Looked Like in The Booster Course Pass [Mario Kart 8 Deluxe]](/img/1.gif)
I have no interest in politics, but this video is really well done. I like that you used Mario Kart to get your ideas across and I’d like to see more videos in this style :)
Gotta know what the home crowd wants. I def wouldn't do political content, but I see this as more adjacent to it than actual political content.
I think at the end of the day, knowledge of alternative systems is very important to get into the mainstream mindset. The point is, we don't always have to limit ourselves.
I'm glad you could enjoy this topic despite it not being something you probably expected to engage with when starting the day 😊
Me neither, but it is still interesting
With the Minecraft Mob Vote, I often see comments complaining about how people never seem to like the winner despite voting for it. What these people don't consider is that the mob votes are always extremely close, only a few % difference between each choice. Because only 1/3 is selected, what ends up happening is that ~60% or so ended up never wanting the winner to begin with, well over half of the players voting.
That is the premise of RCV in a sense - a winner must hit a majority in the end. The thing is, whether or not that majority is actually a true one is a different question. STARs runoff technically forces a majority also between 2 popular candidates.
Another thing is people are left to guess aspects like how good will the wolf armor from armadillos be or how far away will the crab claw let you place blocks and will it let you place them from that distance too or do you get the claw by killing it. I am guilty of this when I voted crab since I thought the crab could also drop crab legs if added and it would be a simple thing to add in. Like how the armadillo and wolf armor was paired with more wolf breeds.
There is a quote that goes "perfect is the enemy of good" and that applies a lot here, it is easy to get hung up on all the problems that face other types of voting systems and easy to forget that they are all better options that the one the U.S. uses know.
Yeah, it almost feels harsh to criticize RCV for being broken, when the system we have already is broken. That said, we probably should just be arguing for the alternatives that truly work.
Thats also a good quote for when people don't vote. They go "Well Kamala Harris still isn't amazing so I'm not gonna vote" but that just means they're letting someone infinitely worse win
Another issue with the "other" option that wasn't mentioned is that it also takes more effort for both the candidate and the voter to vote for it, because the voter needs to care enough about the candidate to both remember and consider them unprompted, and that means that the candidate needs to stand out a lot more. The overall video does a great job showing why there's a lot more than just that going on and strategic voting probably is where the issue starts, but the extra effort involved in being perfectly honest would likely exascerbate it
Thats such a well made analogy. Smart for posting it on election day
BREAKING NEWS: Mario Kart players organise in large numbers to advocate for electoral reform!
Jokes aside, this is a really good video, thank you for putting this our there! I've known that voting was kinda messed up but I didnt know about the STAR system until now, and I think it would work quite well especially here the UK where voting for third parties is alot less of a waste than in the states lol. Getting something like this passed is difficult because the people in charge at any given time are usually the people it would benefit the least, but if enough people are educated and want this it would be a seriously good change.
You nailed it on the head haha. This issue would be one of the only ones our major parties would be aligned on. That said, their arguments don't hold up to scrutiny very well. It's easy to make fun of them for being against it, because the claim is that they know they're unpopular and not representative. Unironically we might have to taunt them a bit to try to get them to prove they're pro-people.
Baby Rosalina. Pink Gold Peach feels more like a skin to me. She can be used to build hype for the inevitable DLC
Great video, super well articulated, bringing up an extremely important topic that not enough people care about in a way that’s easy to understand. Being a part of the sample size made me love this video a lot too, because I had no idea it was gonna be used for this and I absolutely loved it
Really great video! I like how you frame (at least part of) the video by emphasizing the importance of semantic reflection (i don't know how to say it -- basically that the action, here, voting, is doing what it says it is doing; for voting, representing how people feel on things). I find it difficult when the words being used to describe things have accumulated other meanings or intentions. What I understand as you clarifying the action of voting by decentering strategic voting from it's mechanics is what I'm gesturing at. I don't know how to say it but I liked the video :D
I think I understand what you're saying here. The idea of "strategic" voting is inherently disingenuous, and we've let the system take us away from what it's original purpose was.
The sad reality is that establishing FPTP early on was probably a mistake originally, but an easy one to make. George Washington even had a warning about the two party system in our country, and how he saw it as perhaps a natural evolution of FPTP. That said, we didn't really listen very well it seems. Hopefully we can self correct over time, but it is hard to get stuff done with this level of division within the country. Holding out hope though that we can actually get back to the basics (answering honestly) by embracing what's difficult (a deeper system itself).
Okay so you know how in Kirby in the Forgotten Land, Kirby can wrap his mouth around the roof of a car to drive it?
Is he gonna throw the items too?
Kirby Ratatouille.
@@HDRookie No, Remmie from Rattatouie will be throwing the items.
I think another thing to touch on with the "other" category is that voting for it didn't really feel like you were actually voting for your course but all the other available courses. This is becuase even though your choice was recognised in the comment it wasn't reflected in the poll for example. If the "other" category one but most people voted for Excite Bike Arena but you hate that course and in the "other" category you were actually voting for Thomp Ruins it would feel as if your vote was misplaced since you helped something you disagree with win.
Could definitely see that - weirdly, there's a lot of dishonest methods you can use to incentivize certain responses. Even in the question wording sometimes🫣
@@HDRookie As someone in Psychology who has done some research stuffs, this is an ever-present issue with research methodology-namely surveys. Question wording, order of questions, how many qustions, the order of options, the scaling of options (think: absurd hypothetical daily sleep survey where options are 1hour of sleep, 2 hours of sleep, 3 hours of sleep, and 4 or more hours of sleep)... it's a whole thing. Even with no immediate incentive to answer dishonestly, there are so many things that can unintentionally skew answers.
Came for the character popularity discussion, stayed for the FPTP voting discussion video
I looove statistical analyses like these, especially with Nintendo games. Its one of the reasons u subscribed to you
I know what i want to add. the ability to customise koopa troopa shells. i want to play as red shelled koopa troopa. not an extra character slot tho
Paratroopa still awaiting his grand return.
@@HDRookie Better be an alt skin not a character slot
Just have all the koopa troopas alts, Red/green troops, red/green/blue paratroopa, and of course Drybones my beloved
The character I picked was Vivian from TTYD but no way in hell is she making it in. I'm completely sold on STAR voting now!
Vivian is awesome.
STAR is not perfect, so don't go with the assumption that's it's infallible of course. That said, I think it limits any downsides incredibly well.
Get over yourself. I picked Dr Goomba Stack
i picked baby rosalina
hi!!! your video appeared on my feed and i clicked it bc i saw luigi on it, haha!!! but it was a nice video, your research is summarized in such a way that anyone can understand it, and i liked that u applied it with mario kart related stuff since it's simpler to comprehend. good luck to everyone up there with their voting, im mexican so i cannot do much, but i wish u the best! keep it up and thanks!
Hey, thanks for the words. Really though, it's not just a USA thing also - this applies to really any election, or any poll or any of that. Glad you enjoyed the video though!
HDRookie! This is honestly a well made video and the timing is honestly perfect! Congrats man!
I just wanted to comment that this is a damn good video. Your ability to explain voting systems using MarioKart as an example made it easily digestible. It’s like if TierZoo made videos about politics using MarioKart instead of zoology using video game terminology.
I never thought about it that way, but I like the comparison! It's probably for the best if you have a certain type of audience, but want to dabble with a new genre for a video.
one interesting thing is that whenever people discuss voting, the first thought isn't just voting in politics, but voting for a president
which kind of, is the exception of how polls work. People care about their favourite president winning, or at least there's a large group of people who are very passionate about this, and one candidate may have a more active group of supporters.
While, in every other area of life, people are just kind of handled a poll with options to choose and they may not care about it all that much. In terms of that mario, luigi and etc voting, people don't really care about who would "win", and if there is some complexity they're much more likely to just choose a random option.
Yeah, the stakes are lower, so it'll never be exactly one to one. Can't do anything about voter strategy and all that, you just have to send them the hypothetical best system and hope it works. Probably best if the poll captures a topic that the sample group tends to care about.
I love this because it's like the CGP Grey video on the animal kingdom voting, but with the characters I love! And also in more detail because you did polls of your own in this video
This was an amazing video! Thanks for introducing me to STAR voting, as well as proving to me that Mario Kart players will do anything to avoid the random chance that Excite Bike or MooMoo meadows get picked for the 100th time over the other actual maps, even create a political reform movement.
I mean if you're seeking more honest approaches in voting, you could try 1 on 1 voting, or voting for individual characters (scoring) and then adding up the totals when comparing and contrasting. You could ask for expression alongside the votes as it helps clear up honesty. Ofc you could also be less specific when referring to the class of the vote. In theory, these should all dim out or make strategic voting less applicable because it's harder. It will likely take longer to get a final anwser however. There is many formulae for votings, and they're all likely to be different, but at the end of the day, it's good exposure and explanation because a lot of people could be unaware of this. Good video Rookie. 👍
P.S. I knew you'd pick bWP, I KNEW IT-
This was a very interesting and practical demonstration of this idea, thank you. I hadn't heard of STAR voting before, and it's very interesting to learn about.
...Also my Mario Kart pick was a Pianta with color selection, like Shy Guy and Yoshi have.
A true Gamecube era classic right there
the Everybody Votes Channel music was very fitting for this topic... that channel was such an........ experience
On the "Greatest of All Time" ranking it also is important that the framing of "Greater" compared to "Favorite" it does account for legacy/significance rather than personal preference. My "Favorite" Roman Emperor is not who I would say is the "Greatest" Roman Emperor. It's a difference between "someone who I think I would get along with, who I would like to talk to, who I would want to support if given the option" versus "someone I would want to live under."
That's fair also. I do think that is a prevalent issue though, many people interpret the question differently to begin with. Most deserving vs best is always a contentious topic. It's funny how election night had no company on this regard. The college football playoff rankings reveal last night are always based on this debate as well.
Whilst this video is *mostly* about finding the winner of a poll, it is worth mentioning that in the context of elections, only determining who is the most popular isn't necessary. In Denmark, we have a proportional voting system, where any party that gets at least 2% of the vote sees some level of representation in the government, more the more votes it gets, and whichever party gets the most votes makes whatever coalitions are necessary with its most like-minded parties to reach around 50% of the parliament. This system basically completely removes strategic voting, since the party you voted for doesn't have to win to benefit from your vote (though, specifically in our system, if you voted for a party that gets less than 2% of the vote, your vote is "lost", but that isn't inherent to proportional voting systems).
@@RasmusVJS proportional systems to be pretty good overall, when the office is applicable of course
Really didnt expect that pivit but as someone who loves Mario Kart AND hates the current political voting system, it was amazing and a very interesting conversation! Thank you for exploring those subjects, the star system is way more interesting than I thought!
6:09 omg this is so true, My fav is electrodrome but I just voted cloudtop because I think it's a 2nd or 3rd for me!!
As mentioned, strategic voting is everywhere, maybe we even do it without realizing it when we open this app and see the polls 🤷♀️
All we can do is try to learn from it and try to find the systems that minimize it!
This is by far your best video yet. I didn't expect this to be so informative ^^
I put a lot of effort into this one compared to usual even, researching, editing, all that. Appreciate the kind words!
As someone who lives in a place with rank choice voting im glad to see it being discussed more!
i thought about shy guy first, but then the lack of rules was mentioned and my mind jumped to steve
This is something that I really thought of and have a suggestion that I haven’t seen replicated: The Dorkly Madness bracket.
The Madness bracket, which I think it’s pretty known, is the type of poll that the website UwUFufu used to become popular.
Two options are pitted against each other and the loser is discarded. Then a second round comes with all the winners of the first round against each other in pairs and so on.
Now, the defunct geek website Dorkly had, I think, a great idea for a madness bracket.
There are no rounds in this version but let’s say my 1st and 2nd favorite Mario character are up first. In Dorkly madness I’ll pick the 1st favorite character and the 2nd one gets a strike and is reshuffled in the mix. This way, you can have a matchup later with say your 2nd favorite and 7th favorite in which the 2nd wins and gets a point.
I don’t know how the system of points worked at all but I think it’s the closest to a perfect ranking
This Dorkly Madness bracket should be recreated somehow cause all other systems, unless they’re very detailed, don’t give a good ranking to individual players.
This system will obviously have your 1st favorite at the top but it also has the approximation of the options in 2nd, 3rd, etc.
That’s why I think it’s the best system of polling/ranking/whatever. I really wish it was used by other websites at all.
@hahaoriginal6921 I think I vaguely remember this. And it is the flaw with single elim brackets: they only find the correct winner hypothetically, 2nd place could actually not even be popular. Double Elimination also helps with this, but it kind of sounds like this was reminiscent of it.
i’ve wanted raphael the raven in mk for SO long and the worst part is that is feels like it could happen, i loved the part in paper mario 64 with him as a kid
That would be such a wild card. Feel like they would put in King Bobomb first though, for the big round black ball rep
honestly I'm not certain how good it is but if I remember correctly, Ireland uses multi-member districts with proportional voting.
Proportional voting is cool, and works extremely well with Approval Voting I believe as well.
i cant believe mario tricked me into a video about voting systems xD
great video dude, i don't live in the US but i turn 18 next year and the idea of doing more research into politics/voting etc isn't something i look forward to tbh, but it's gotta be done
this made it all seem a little less daunting :)
I'm all for seeing more polls from you, Mr. Rookie 👑
Pink Gold Peach deserves her own game
Finally someone brave enough to say it 👏
Where did she even come from though
@@Vexoned from nothing
Go eat a banana! Worst take ever >:(
@@Vexoned She came from the concept of Metal Mario, as in "if there's a metallic mario, what would a metallic peach look like?"
Just like how baby Rosalina came from the concept of the baby Mario, Luigi, and Peach.
This was a great video. It was informative, interesting, poignant, and entertaining- great job!
"People might complain that they'll have to do more research on the candidates" Weeellll let me tell you something. Back in...May, April, March, whenever the Kentucky primaries were, I got my primary ballot and stood my ass at the voting booth and I stood there and stood there and stood there, phone in hand, browser open to Ballotpedia and any other information sources, looking up every single candidate on that ballot that I wasn't already familiar with (which was Basically Everyone aside from like...Biden maybe because adblock + not watching normal broadcast TV much meant I wasn't getting blasted with campaign ads). I did my damn research right then and there, and I'm pretty sure if this were an urban polling place on the main election day and I wasn't literally the only voter there at that time I'd've gotten kicked out for taking too damn long. But I did my damn research regardless, and if I can take that time so can anyone else. Hell, it prolly woulda been better to research before heading out to the poll in the first place, but I can never remember when the primaries are until like the day before and I am a distract 6_9
Yeah, prior knowledge is typically the way to go. I think when it comes to stuff like presidential elections though, the candidates typically should not be a surprise. I do understand that research becomes a bit more difficult at the local level.
@@HDRookie I mean, I can't exactly remember who the primary dem options for president were, but yeah the final president options are Never a surprise. And while this ballot I voted all dems for obvious self-preservation reasons (and also I'm registered as such, as obvious because being in a state where your primary options are restricted to your party), I remember for one of the local ones in my area, I think it was school board? All non-partisan too, not that common from what I've seen in my time voting. Point being, that was the only one I had No lead on and None of the candidates seemed to have any internet presence.
You know when I was a kid in school and the teacher wanted to see what movie we wanted to watch, it was never worth keeping up with making sure each person only voted for one movie. If you got to vote for every movie, more often people were happy with the choice.
Approval voting might be even more simple than FPTP!
I highly recommend looking up Arrow’s impossibility Theorem and Gibbard’s theorem. They are social science theorems basically state that there is no perfect voting system that is also truly reflects the cumulative choice of the community. I’m over-generalizing on the specifics of those theorems, but it can be important context to the overall discussion of voting to remind everyone that no system of voting will be 100% perfect
I have, and understand. That said, I do think we can do better than others. A goal should be strategic success being equally as likely as strategic backfire. STAR at least gets pretty close in that regard
@@HDRookie I completely understand your position, and I mostly agree with your conclusion based on your evidence.
I mostly mentioned the theorems to see if you’ve heard of them; however, I think it’s still an important point when talking about voting systems because i think we can always do better. There might be a better voting system to use in a different context or even a system that has yet to be invented.
@@HDRookie There is a system that is strategyproof despite Gibbard's theorem etc, and it is essentially unique. It works like this: after ballots are cast, select one at random, and the top choice on that ballot wins the election (sometimes called "random dictatorship"). While it's not suited to electing a president* or youtube polls, it's good when used to elect a lot of members (e.g. the house of representatives), since the randomness averages out. Of course, it is random, which understandably gives most people pause, but it also solves all common problems people have with voting: it gives proportional representation (on average), makes gerrymandering impossible and is completely strategyproof. Plus, like I said, it's essentially unique: the math is begging us to use it.
*technically, the US doesn't elect the president, and the electoral college is big enough for the randomness to average out... but still probably a bad idea.
This vid is so cool you deserve more attention !!!!!!!!
something that i feel also exacerbates strategic voting in youtube polls is the fact that you can immediately change your vote after seeing the results, so you don't need to guess what the "right" choice would be. i'll sometimes be between two options and then change my mind after seeing the numbers. anyways, congrats on tricking me into watching and enjoying a video about american politics through mario kart analogies LOL
You're 100% right. There have been times where I'm interested in seeing the results and I click something and unclick it. There have been times where I have selected something after the fact solely because I find it to be underrated and deserving of more support, even if it's not necessarily my first option.
I'm only 3 minutes into this video as of the time of writing this but your opening thought experiment made me realize that Tron might be perfect for a fighting game like Smash Bros actually:
- lots of potential for a unique and interesting moveset (I think so anyway, although admittedly I don't know shit about the movesets in Smash)
- good canon options to draw from for alternate costumes (mostly just different circuit colors, but still)
- he's canonically an incredibly proficient fighter so he wouldn't be out of place in a fighting game
- could come with a stage themed after the arena from Tron: Legacy, which would look cool as hell, not to mention the soundtrack possibilities for said stage
- idk i just like him
- in conclusion put my boy Tron in the next smash bros game I think he deserves it
@foolofdaggers7555 Glad I could help in this super specific way. It does sound like you like Tron a lot if he came to mind so quickly. Knee-jerk reactions are often honest ones!
That's what I thought
Why am I watching a video about alternative voting systems while also watching just a liking mario kart guy's vid.
Great content. I will send this vid to people when explaining those voting systems.
It seems like you could rig star voting with anti-spoilers. If Group A at around 46% of the population ranks C1 and C2 as 5, and the rest as 0, and Group B at 54% ranks C3 and C4 as 5 and 4 evenly distributed, then ranks C2 and C1 as 0 and 1 evenly distributed, those may indicate their preferences, but the runoff will be between C1 and C2 due to the lack of 5s for C3 and C4, and extra 1s for C1 and C2. If either C1 or C2 dropped out then the runoff would be with either C3 or C4, and either one would win against C1 or C2. With star voting it seems the best strategy is to vote 5 for the candidate you like who has a chance, 0 for any candidate you dislike, and then 5 for your actual preference. That strategy dominating would turn it back into approval voting.
Wow, never thought I'd learn so much from a Mario Kart voting video, thank you HDRookie!
It's funny because it's the system use on touhou charactere popularity pool. And I like it very much.
Your voice do matter, the small ideas may take long, but they can achieve greater heights. It only takes a single conversation to changes someones view about anything
Ultimately, this is why the upload was necessary. I just needed to change one perspective. Early returns are showing we mightve reached even more, so that is very promising
I wonder why he'd pick today to do this video
IDK, the idea just spontaneously came to me or something 😮
Honestly most of my favourites are usually like top 5 most popular in a series and if not it tends to be number 1
Rookie you are one of the best RUclips content creators out there! Really love your videos - I enjoy that they are longer too. I like to have them streaming on my second monitor as I work or surf the web! Wishing you continued luck. Really love your Mario kart content!
I really need to get back into shorter form content again, but I feel too many details in these videos now. I can only upload like once every 2 months now but I hope it's worth it! Thanks for the kind words 🙂
6:49 never knew that fun fact, I'll keep an eye out for that!
I'll NEVER forget the poll where Mario isn't listed as the #1 most popular character.
I imagined Fawful from BIS. Any Mario RPG rep would be cool, though.
Pretty neat video, thanks for the content!
Applying the concept to Mario Kart is nice. I think it takes away some of the initial bias/reactions related to anything in real life politics, and helps to keep the point of the video clear.
Also... I've been of the opinion that FPTP can be pretty flawed for a long time, but STAR voting was new to me. Actually might look up some stuff on voting systems now. Thanks. :)
For sure. I think it's pretty legit. There are some electoral rules it breaks like Later No Harm, but no system can satisfy every criteria and be "perfect". I think this limits the impact of tactical voting pretty well though, and makes the most warranted sacrifices.
Hammer Bro, Count Bleck, Dementio, Chargin Chuck, ROB, and OG SNES Mario/DK Junior. The characters needed to be added to the current MK8DX+BCP roster for MK9. And then it’s perfect
Ima need more characters from the other Mario RPGs too, not just SPM :)
@ SPM was the best one tho
@@TheRealstarkHOUTx I respectfully disagree 😶🌫
Thank you for making this
i think the best method for these kind of things is just ask me. i will choose. i have well honed opinions that are very accurate.
The advantage of first past the post is that all of these questions have to be asked and answered before voting, coalitions must be made and common ground achieved even before voting starts, giving the vote more nuance that what it would look like at first glance. That's why toy examples don't work for first past the post.
Real world examples don't work very well for FPTP either - it's why voting has become such a widely stated unsatisfying experience, and why we always say "lesser of two evils". Its only advantage is simplicity, but the price we're paying for that is well... not representative of the opinions of the public.
0:22 Kirby, I guess? Can I choose the little armored guys in Halo Reach? Or the aliens?
Whoever you want
@@HDRookie Abraham Lincoln then.
@@HDRookie On second thought, Genghis Khan.
This is actually the Irish election system. So funny seeing this with an election coming up on the 29th ahah
I love Squeaky Clean Sprint
My favorite isn’t even something like Luigi or Yoshi, it’s literally the basic ahh Koopa, not even his dead variant Dry Bones
He's a classic, feel no shame
Oh, my choice was baby Rosalina so… option B
I have the craziest voting system that only works for a representative democracy, so for something like Mario Kart tracks it wouldn't work. It's a bit complicated but I call it Inverse Ternary Hierarchy or Inverse Ternary Tree if you prefer that.
What you do is you put everyone who is voting/campaigning into one group (you need to be doing both in order to participate in this system) then randomly assign people into groups of three (lets call these class 0 for now) each group member chooses a leader to represent the three (or they protest and get swapped with others who are also protesting) then assign all class 0 leaders into groups of three again (call these groups class 1) have them choose a leader and assign them into groups of 3 (class 2) and repeat over and over until all groups are connected or to stubborn to merge any further.
It doesn't have to be 3 it can be whatever size you want but smaller is better and three was chosen to prevent exact ties. If this thing works it would connect every person on earth in only 21 layers. (that means at most you would only have to get to know about 42 people) It has its flaws but what system doesn't have flaws; however its potential benefits are absurd imagine you have a personal problem and you are looking for someone to help you solve it you could ask your group and then if no one in the group is appropriate to help you your leader can take it to one class higher then that group can repeat navigating down or up classes until they finally find someone. I know implementing it would be very difficult but at the very least I can see this being used to run a workers union.
As you said first past the post works so long as you have a good way of narrowing it down to the best two candidates and this system is essentially exclusively that in both ways over and over again in theory getting better candidates and people who are better at choosing a candidate with every increase in class.
I know I may not know the correct terms and such but I can't seem to find if anyone anywhere has tried a system like this and honestly (and I may be a bit full of myself here but) I think I may have came up with the single most optimal way to solve everyone problems, it's at the very least worth giving it a shot. So if you can make sense of what I am saying please spread the word around and try and get others to do the same.
This is an interesting idea, but I may need to see the math in an example or drawn out better. Unironically, it could work in the MK8 Community itself even when electing moderators.
On a large scale, it seems a bit complicated and a too involved process to get much support for an actual campaign. But I guess it sounds like you're finding a way to get people to be honest about who is most capable of solving a problem.
@@HDRookie I thought about making a video on this but I have no prior experience so I would have to hire someone to help me out (I do have someone specific in mind) and I might be a bit too much of a perfectionist when I need to just focus on getting something out there.
I know implementing this is a logistical nightmare especially on a large scale, people without access to the internet pose a serious issue that needs to be overcome, there is the question of how to handle someone "dropping out" or new people joining; but what system isn't a nightmare.
I am not going to lie this is the first time I have presented this idea to anyone. (The only exception being my brother who showed little interest.)
This is a council democracy, basically? Except you're using arbitrary allotments of three instead of interest groups and administrative districts to form the basis, which... might be a weakness, might be an improvement.
So the good news is that someone has already thought of this.
The bad news is that it didn't quite work out as well as might be hoped, but perhaps as long as you avoid appointing Stalin General Secretary you may have more luck?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_democracy
@@basedeltazero714 I mean even in that article it says "the local levels of society remained largely participatory". A lot of the "problems" seem to be unrelated to the democracy, in fact I would argue it was because the communists posed a threat to the real "problem" overtaking everything that they were the first to be taken out.
I still think this is extremely different from communism (especially since there is a lot more to it that I haven't mentioned) but if it was so quickly identified as the first threat to fascism, maybe communism isn't so bad. As of now I think a threat to fascism is exactly what is needed.
I won't lie though; this comparison has me scared, not because I think it "won't work" but because I think it threatens the status quo too well and the rich and powerful will do everything in their power to stop it; I always knew deep down that it would happen but if there are actually this many comparisons to communism I will have a much greater uphill battle to prove this as a good thing than I previously thought, because that is probably the single greatest "ism" that people don't understand and believe to be an abject failure.
@@GAHAHAHH Oh I didn't mean that as a detriment at all. The Soviet Union did much with a very bad hand - let's not forget they arose from an extraordinarily repressive absolute monarchy, the backwater of Europe, and made themselves a world-leading industrial power. That doesn't mean they were 'true communism' or didn't do bad things, they did, but it does mean that perhaps we should look at the things they did with a critical eye, not a dismissive one.
Also... a lot of people agree with the principles right up until they hear the c word.
I would have originally chosen nabbit originating in new super Mario bros U
Thank you for such an interesting video. My prior experience was mostly with preference-ballot methods (Borda, Copeland, Hare, . . .) and not with star voting methods, as this is enough to talk about Arrow's Theorem and the like.
If you want more reading material about voting theory/social choice theory in general (as opposed to star voting in specific), perhaps the next step would be Jordan Ellenberg's *How Note to Be Wrong: The Power of Mathematical Thinking*, Chapters 17 (and a bit of 18), which lays out some of the voting methods and paradoxical situations in an approachable way.
A more thorough (but more demanding) text would be Alan D. Taylor and Allison M. Pacelli's *Mathematics and Politics: Strategy, Voting, Power, and Proof*.
Also, just to give a little bit of translation between the social-choice-theory language and ordinary language:
(At about 11:12): Ballots where you give a first choice, second choice, etc. are called preference ballots. They can be used in various voting methods, either in the method discussed, or in methods assigning a point value to each rank, or in counting head-to-head matchups.
(At about 11:32) The elimination method discussed in ranked-choice voting is called the Hare method. The Coombs method is the alternative rule where you eliminate the candidates with the most last-place votes per round.
(At about 18:17) This examples shows that the Hare Method (Ranked-Choice Voting) violates Monotonicity: changes in favor of a candidate on individual ballots can cause the candidate to do worse overall. (Monotonicity is basically the assertion that this can't happen -- you cannot reduce a candidate's social ranking by improving the candidate's ranking on individual ballots.)
Very informative stuff, and thank you for sharing some sources. 🙂 The last place elimination thing is interesting, but I also feel like it would still be susceptible to the exact same issues, no?
I do think there is an argument to be made that a utilitarian approach is better for optimizing happiness at the end. Simple majority solutions can lead to selfish outcomes I think.
For instance, there's a game out there. I forget the name. But there's 2 players and there's a round. If both players do nothing, they get 3 points. But if one attacks. They get 5 points, unless both attack where they both get 1. It's not a direct comparison but sometimes society would be best if we could all pick up 3s consistently, but if there's a majority who tries to see 5 as their best personal option, we will never maximize overall utility.
@@HDRookiethe prisoner's dilemma (or at least a variation of it).
@@evanpereira3555 That rings a bell, I believe it is that.
didn't expect the topic good video
Clearly, the best option is round robin voting. Every candidate is compared to every other candidate on an individual basis, and the one with the most wins overall is the winner.
@connerblank5069 Do you propose the same ballot as with score then? Or perhaps even a larger scoring range?
@HDRookie I mean, ideally you'd run individual votes for each possible pairing and compare the aggregate, but that's obvously impractical on anything other than very small scales. If you were serious about setting one up, but _not_ serious enough to just do a bunch of binary races all at once, I imagine a primary type preliminary to decide on a reasonable pool of candidates using another method would probably be the way to go.
Don't need statistical analysis to answer that - I just have weird tastes.
not going to lie i would ask them how they knew i was going to make them keep pink gold peach in the next mario kart if i got given that choice
But shy guys been in 4 Mario kart games so that’s cap.
i got distracted by the text at 26:44 because it feels so familier to me is that kdenlive video editor?
something about that cyan + outline, the segoe ui font, that inner top right positioning with right align?
feels very familiar to me. it's basic and common enough to be anything but it just vibes kdenlive
I do all my editing in Sony Vegas, so it was just coincidental I believe
This was really cool! Thank you! I care!!
It's always hard to express this stuff since many people hate talking about the political process. Gotta just find your spots to share and inform though 🙂
@@HDRookie Absolutely. It's a really delicate art, and I appreciate the thought and work put into informing people!
I'm gonna rewatch this and show my mom! I'll have fun explaining a lot of the Mario context, and my mom has wanted to learn more about alternative voting practices already anyway. 😁
Update: my mom LOVED the video! The only critique she has is specifically about the character names. Obviously, in the Mario gaming sphere, Mario, Luigi, Wario, and Waluigi are fully distinct, discrete characters. We wouldn't ever mix them up. Without visual cues, it was easy for my mom to get mixed up.
That being said, this was a spot on video for your intended audience, and I wouldn't expect consideration for every possible iteration of audience. It was just an interesting perspective about something I took for granted: distinguishing characters with very similar names. This tickled me.
@@LuciustheDragon As much as I would've loved to make a general video, I just want to make sure the video has a chance to get viewed more than anything else, lol.
Or, hear my European butt out here for a sec, maybe it's a crazy idea that one person governs most of the most important decisions of a 330+ mil populated nation?
With only two options to boot?!
How about this; any amount of presidential candidates, everyone votes JUST their favourite, there are some nicely divisible like 120 or 144 or 150 seats, the votes simply get divided percentage-wise over the seats.
Did one of the candidates receive 12% of the votes? Then their decisions for the next 4 years make up 14/120 presidential decision making power, for instance.
Of course more goes into this, but what I'm saying is that a ministry without a single head of state would work a million times better.
Just look at Netherland's, Japan's, or many other nations' systems of deciding a head of state.
Although this star voting system is nice
This would be a little bit redundant because what you're describing already kinda exists in the form of Congress (though local FPTP elections still decide those seats, rather than proportional vote). It seems to be the same type of end goal. They check the president's power.
That said, and I've tried to keep actual politics out of this video, there are many people wanting to expand the power of the president as is, by essentially allowing him to fire a bunch of people in our administrative state, to be replaced with president approved people. The people who work for these agencies are typically responsible for setting lots of the rules for the government at large. It is definitely alarming, I would say.
I'm not saying your idea isn't better too, just want to add context.
@@HDRookie Ok I see this was out of the scope for this video, now.
You do make a good point, and yes that does sound a teensy tiny bit quite alarming (^^;
i cannot believe so many people like the bland corporate slop track known as sunshine airport.
Insane hating out here
@HDRookie 😆🤭
Sad that Mario placed very low in the polls :(
He won the IGN Tournament though, so he's gucci
If you're interested in learning more about different voting systems, I really recommend looking up Nicky Case! She's made a phenomenal interactive explainer. Everything else on her website is also amazing.
I'll make sure to do that when I get some time 🙂
Politics acknowledgement as being unavoidable when you live in a society, nice.
me whose favorite mario character is mario:
1:03 Pink Gold Peach ftw
Lucas from Mother 3 for Mario Kart 10 (they pulled a Microsoft and skipped 9)
Luigi🎉
Crono not being in Smash Bros Ultimate makes me so sad 😔
That's my goat right there
I just understood why you were using music from the Everybody Votes Channel 😂
incredibly based
Hey that was a pretty good video,
My favorite mainline mario used to be super mario land
Was never sure if that one counted, TBH.
The problem with voting is that perfectly democratic vote is literally mathematically impossible. It's an inherently flawed system, and we have no choise but to try find the best compromises.
Very true, you have to pick your poison. I do think some options are clearly preferable however
@@HDRookie Indeed, that's why finding the right compromise is important. The problem is it is often unclear which method works the best...
Luigi is the most popular though, it's scientifically proven!
Marjo and Luigi
reject democracy embrace anarchy
Is the democracy you reject just a disguise to begin with? 🤔
SPOILERS FROM ONE OF SCHAFFRILLAS' RECENT VIDEOS
But Luigi is actually more popular than Mario, it said so in Schaffrillas' video talking about how popular every Mario character is.
Would be crazy if that was in the video now 😅
My favorite will always be Mario. I don’t know why I just can’t like Luigi
4:06 THERES MY BOY BITSTIM
Every comment has a shot of making the video 😊
I was thinking about Octoling Kid. because why just Inkling Kid?
also i'd pick baby rosalina over PGP because i hate the reskins getting into mainline mario kart games and not just Tour.
cool video, wasnt expecting to learn about voting systems today lmao but you did a good job at it
13:57 no way you actually pronounce "compromise" like "come promise".
You know, I ordinarily do not actually say it that way lol. I'm not sure why it came out that way but often I am focused on tone more than the script itself as I record. I think I might actually say it differently depending on if its being used as a noun/verb, but never have really thought about it before so idk for sure 🤔
i love waluigi pinball why didnt i get to vote :(