I think this is the moment Viserys finally gained Daemon’s respect. Daemon always considered his brother to be a weak king that could never stand up for himself. Now he’s watching him endure unimaginable agony to protect his family. And in that moment Daemon realizes how wrong he was. 😭
I actually think people always misunderstood Daemon on this. He never wanted the throne. In the books it’s even made clear that Daemon rallying forces is what helped crown Viserys. Daemon always just wanted to be at his brother’s side. Imagine if he was hand of the king, instead of Otto.
@@ghostdreamer7272 Exactly! In episode 1 Daemon (correctly) points out that Viscerys is weak and vultures like Otto are manipulating him. However, there was never a doubt that he genuinely loves his brother and that he was motivated more by a desire to protect him, than his own ambition for power. In this episode-as with when he shut down Corlys for talking shit-he proved that he really does have Viserys's back, which is in direct contrast to Otto, who just seems pissed off that his plan to ally the Greens with the Valarions had been derailed.
@@karanbhatt9320 Viserys actually cares about people. Whereas Trump is the child king Geoffrey, Viserys only resembles Biden for his indecisiveness early on. You'll never see Viserys sniff a girl's hair, even in a timeline where girls were taken young, Viserys said "she's too young"
I read that Paddy was drawing a lot from his mom, who suffered from diabetes and had multiple amputations. He apparently went REALLY deep on these scenes, to the point that others were a little concerned. It makes me love and respect him even more for his amazing work as Viserys because he gave us so much.
@@domenceuspriest It’s NY Times article, sorry! I tried to post the link but YT auto-deleted it. It’ll come up in google, though it’s behind a paywall so you’ll have to pull a workaround (ios reader etc)
@@Utterlyderanged Ah, looks like YT doesn't allow links. It's NYT, title is "In ‘House of the Dragon,’ Paddy Considine Claims the Crown" quote: Considine said he based the physically ailing Viserys partly on his mother, who went through multiple amputations resulting from diabetes before dying of a heart attack. Colleagues said watching him inhabit the role sometimes bordered on concerning. “He turns himself inside out in his performance, and that metamorphosis is sometimes really painful to watch,” said Olivia Cooke, who stars as Alicent Hightower, a woman close to Viserys. “We spoke about it, and the only way he can access his performance, sometimes, is to go to such a horrid and painful place.”
“Let us drain our cups to these three handsome… wise… charming… pious… steadfast… capable… loyal… diligent… skilled… adventurous… compassionate… honest… brave… noble young boys! …shit i missed one.”
@@peculiarpangolin4638 just standing there staring into his cup in abject horror as everyone around him goes “that was surprisingly nice Aemond, thank you”.
A small thing that I liked, when Jace asked Helaena to dance and you see them both smiling and having a good time, you think back to a few episodes ago when Rhanyera tried to arrange their marriage and suddenly this small moment becomes a glimpse at what could have been.
I bet Alicent regrets it deeply. She hates what happened to herself yet condemns her daughter to the same fate. Worse, Aegon turns out to be a drunk and a r*pist. "You are no son of mine." Maybe if Alicent wasn't so disgusted by Jace's "illegitimacy", her daughter would have led a happier life. And, in extension, her grandchildren. Very tragic indeed.
You know you’ve done a good job with a character when the original author says he’s tempted to rewrite the original book because he loved your portrayal so much. So glad to see Paddy Considine getting the praise he deserves for the character (along with the writers and showrunners too).
If you told me last year that the most powerful and emotional scene put on our screens in 2022 would be a decrepit, crumbling old man struggle to walk across a room, I would never have believed you. But… here we are. 😢 🥺 Hats off to Paddy and Matt for making this an emotional powerhouse of a scene and to Ramin for doing everything humanly possible to make sure the accompanying music was as epic and heartfelt as he could. 👏
I wasn't expecting this show to have so many relatable and emotional moments, given how GoT went. But even though it's about royalty, the show manages to hit that sweet spot of Shakespearean tragedy that draws on so many truly human struggles. The cast is so excellent, and Paddy gives so much throughout this.
Everyone is talking about Daemon and Viserys making it up the throne. What did it for me was that scene where Rhaenyra admits to Viserys she doesn't want the burden of ruling anymore but if he wants her to she needs him to help defend her and her children's succession. And to see that little look Rhaemyra amd Viserys share during his agonizing walk literally on his last day in the world Viserys gave all the energy he had in him to defend Rhaenyra one more time giving her and his grandson a reaffirmation of his belief in their ascension.
That scene of viserys struggling to get up on the throne... As a disabled person, oof, it hit hard. He's trying so hard to cling to whatever dignity he has left and pushing his body beyond what it can actually do anymore. I really felt for him.
Your ending, where you say, "can't you hear the music? The Dance is about to begin." Is worth more than any amount of marketing. The hype you garnered in me is insane. I want to run, jump, scream, fight. Truly epic ending.
A small thing I liked is that Aemond didn’t do anything the entire dinner until Luke laughed at the pig being put tin front of him and that was the straw that broke the camels back
I do like how the audience didn’t hear what they were talking about either so for all we know they could have been laughing at the eyepatch like Aemond probably thought (although I doubt that considering Luc already saw how skilled he is even with the disability) Similarly, you could read Jace asking Helena to dance as being to spite Aegon or him trying to be nice to Helena and strengthen their show of camaraderie. After his comments, it would make perfect sense for Jace to be disrespectful back, but a dance can be diplomatic. No one really knows what was truly in either of their heads
True. But you could sense the tension and the build up with him. He kind of wanted something like this to happen, to unleash himself. He's such a badass I love him
@@alliew31 with Jace and Helaena, it’s especially murky because it was just after she talked about how bad a husband Aegon is. That adds fuel to both “the dance is a fuck you to Aegon” and “he just wants to do something nice with his aunt”.
I really loved Helaena in this episode and how she’s trying to keep her marriage together while Aegon sleeps around and doesn’t care about his wife or children
I mean she doesn't mince words at the dinner party when she says something to the effect of "Being married is not that bad, he mostly ignores you." Which is fine, because Aegon is a piece of sh*t who assaults his staff.
@@thesamuraiman those are the legitimate children. He has 2 acknowledged illegitimate children too, maybe more. So at least 5. But it could be as low as 3 total in the books. The twins and one illegitimate are guaranteed in the show. We might get baby Maelor soon, and a 2nd illegitimate.
This episode truly sealed Rings of Powers fate for me. For all their budget, for all their CGI, the image of a broken, dieing old man, taking his last steps to save his family is something none of us will ever forget and tells us firmly which show will stand the test of time.
Heavens above the unfortunate trash that is RoP. Just constant vapid dialogue, unlikable, incomprehensible characters can't match the characterization HotD provides its characters and world.
I don't understand why people keep comparing these shows as if they were in a competition or something. I am enjoying RoP, I am also enjoying HotD, but I don't expect them to be similar or even comparable. RoP is the usual fantasy story with stereotypical characters, Good vs. Evil, prophecies, magic, eccetera. HotD is a character driven story, similar to those series about the Tudor or the Bolgia families. Sure, we can compare some elements of the two shows, but it's very clear to me that they have very different purposes. RoP never strived to be even close to what HotD is, and this has been apparent from the very start, so please let's stop having this smug attitude towards a show you don't like even when it has nothing to do with the conversation.
You’re the only other reactor/reviewer I’ve seen catch the lovely bit about how Rhaenys was somewhat ambiguous about her intentions (pushing either for herself to ascend, or backing Vaemond’s claim, or supporting Rhaneyra, or her true born granddaughters) prior to Viserys walking in. At which point she publicly voiced her agreement to Rhaenyra’s desperate offer, forcing her to keep her word now regardless of her victory. Love that type of subtlety!
This episode was absolutely heartbreaking. Knowing everything that comes next is all because of wife misunderstanding her dying husband's words... Shit
She didn't missunderstand, she understood what she wanted to hear. The whole point of the scene is to show that Lady Alicent is long gone and she's her head filled up to much by his father to allow Rhaenyra to rule. One of the best aspect of the show is that there aren't any inherently bad characters. Although the Hightowers have an ambition to the throne it isn't because they want it out of pride or in spite of the Targaryen. They honestly believe thst it would be best for the reign and that it's their duty to seize the crown
@@davidfernandez8515 "she didn't misunderstand, she understood what she wanted to hear" If I told you to buy oranges and you bought me an adorable orange tabby, I would say you really wanted that orange tabby. But you misunderstood me.
@@davidfernandez8515 I don’t think it’s her ambition. She was furious with Aegon earlier which is probably why she was willing to give Rhaenyra a chance. She thought he really wanted Aegon to rule and just didn’t want to offend Rhaenyra. Should she have taken his words to heart while he was drugged up? No, especially when he said earlier he wanted to everyone to be a happy family and passing over Rhaenyra after years would have caused an unrepairable divide, but she wasn’t doing it out of ambition
Yeah it’s brilliant that once again super sleuth Alicent just has information dropped on her lap. It’s suuuuuch good writing that people just tell her things and she just flaps in the breeze, without thought or agency.
@@inspectorpenguin4474 Allicent has no agency in this story? You mean when she's forced to do things she is definitely uncomfortable with doing early in the story? Because at that point yes, Allicent doesn't actually have much agency. Now though? She's entirety changed as a person, with more power to make changes and try and protect her family. As for information to fall on her lap, I think is a gross simplification as to the cause/effect of how this information got to her. And as for agency, don't forget its actually been a theme they've been exploring, and while there are things allicent hasn't had agency for when it came to in the first episodes, when she gets the information its always been her choice as to how to use the information she comes across.
Viserys was by far my favorite character, and one of my favorite of recent television. Watching him navigate through this and handle things was great, and his final throne scene was just so perfect.
The Viserys walk scene was magnificent. No other way to slice it. I rarely get emotional in shows these days but that scene hit me pretty hard, the sheer determination and devotion of this old man to his daughter. No exaggeration in saying that's one of the best scenes in GOT history, they've never done anything like that before.
That scene slapped harder than anything in this series so far. After a couple of episodes that were a little "meh", the sheer emotion in Visery's visibly painful walk through the throne room, the moment with Daemon, or how he put Otto into his place one last time, all hit really hard.
what i love about the dinner scene is i feel like all the adults are actually ready to make peace after all the shit they ve been throught and neither rheanyra nor allicent actually want war but their fight is now passed on to the next generation showing that is just too late and the fight is unevitable.
Episode 8 was terrific, all around. The look on Viserys' face as he surveys the room -- he knows this will be the last time these people will be in a room together, "peaceful" like this. He knows his feeble body and harried breath is the only thing keeping them from tearing each other apart. I don't think he was idealistic enough to think his final speech actually truly worked (especially with the looks on Otto's face throughout the dinner and when his face falls) In fact, as soon as he is carried out of the room, violence erupts immediately. I feel so bad for him. What a performance by Paddy Considine. And I think we were all theorizing that Alicent might misinterpret Viserys' last words, and it seems that's exactly what happens. She cannot in good conscience thinks this is the one (1) time Viserys is lucid enough to make proclamations on who should sit the throne... but she will use it as justification to install her son on it nevertheless. The final two episodes cannot come any sooner!
I love how absolutely Smitten Daemon is with Aemond. It's hard to see because of the lighting, but after their standoff when Aemond walks away, Daemon looks at Rhaenyra with a huge smile almost as if to say "That one is AWESOME."
Not sure if that's what Daemon thinks of him, but it's not hard to believe if that is the case. He could definitely see a lot of himself in Aemond. Aemond definitely seemed to in some ways admire him, especially after what he did to Vaemond in the throne room.
Aemond definitely looks up to his uncle, and his uncle sees a lot his younger self in his nephew. But I'm not certain Daemon is the kind of man who likes people that remind him of himself. I think it's a good testament of Daemon's maturing that he didn't respond to the provocation but instead quietly stared Aemond down.
@@nezfromhki also, despite how logically stupid it was, can we give credit to Vaemond’s massive fucking balls for saying the quiet part out loud? “They, are, *BASTARDS!* and the Princess is a *whore!”* Daemon’s “day it” egging him On was just great too. The thing is, Aemond does the exact same thing but in a far more under handed way, “strong boys” and all of that.
All the what ifs in this episode were fantastic; what if Viserys had named Damon as Hand; what if Jace and Halena had been betrothed and married; what if Rhenyra and Alicent made amends. This episode just lined up all the paths not taken to give those glimpses of hope in what could have been and how many ways this could have been avoided and the echos of the consequences of all those choices leading us to where we are now. This episode really summarized all the reasons that lead to the war beautifully.
@@alliew31 Daemon post episode 6ish would have probably made a decent Hand, but definitely not before that. Choosing Daemon after Lyonel Strong instead of Otto again
Jace marrying Helaena does nothing to nullify Aegon's claim, and that's the competing claim that matters. You think Otto and his brother would just raise their hands and give up because Aegon's younger sister is married off to Rhaenyra's bastard?
@@AllTheArtsy not at all but Halena would be much better treated and happier and that's really the what if that I care about because she is a gem and so does not deserve everything that has and will happen to her
@@AllTheArtsy Jace marrying Helaena dispels Alicent's argument that the Strong boys are bastards. How can she keep making the argument in good faith once her daughter is married to Jace? And as that is the primary thing she uses to delegitamize Rhaenyra's claim, it removes a lot of the weight from her point. She never brings up that Rheanyra is a woman, or would be a bad ruler, or that she has few political allies. Her only argument is that Rhaenyra's kids are bastards.
Viserys walking through the throne room determined to sit in that damned chair one last time is somehow more epic than all the battle scenes in Rings of Power (and this show as well for that matter). That says soemthing about the quality of both shows. I’m not sure what but it says something .
First time in years a show has made this 32 year old man tear up. Excellent characters and character writing. Various plot threads coming together and weaving in and out. Paddy deserves an Emmy as Viserys finally got his Eamma. Seriously though, a certain other show could learn a thing or 2 about time passage and character writing from this show.
Agreed, this was an incredible episode. The slowness of Viserys movement throughout and the intimacy and stretching of each of the scenes with the dinner and each time someone would visit Viserys in his bed, made it feel like we were viewing the slowmotion shot of a bomb ticking down to the last seconds. I am bracing for the "dance". Also, man oh man do I feel like Rhaenys is done so dirty - her family murdered, fake murdered, dying tragically, killed left and right. As someone who has not read Fire and Blood, I am nervous for how this all could lead to her villain origin story. She certainly has much to support it. I suppose marrying into a naval family makes some of this part of the package but ugh give her a break !!!
For real. The fact that she remains magnanimous throughout sort of subtly confirms that she really should have been queen all along. The Targaryens finished what the Doom of Valyria started by passing on her.
This episode moved me. I wept. It delivered everything the show has been building up to, and to me, it fully vindicates the show's choices in how to tell the story. I think they've done an amazing job
I absolutely loved this episode. Definitely my favorite so far and, to me, the best GOT/ASOIAF/GRRM content we've had on screen since season 4 of the original show. It's rekindled my love for GRRM's world and its lore. The time jumps have been unfortunate, but they've handled them about as well as possible. Just wish we could have had more time with Harwin and Laena in particular. And Paddy Considine deserves an Emmy or something. Made me cry three times in a single episode. Also, Helaena's line about the beasts beneath the boards might be referring to that one scene in the book (if you know you know).
Paddy talking about all the experiences of his real life feeding into how he portrayed viserys' illness was super emotional. He put everything into this character and you can really feel it. Gonna miss him alot 🥲
As an American, yes that's basically what Thanksgiving is like. Bunch of people at the table who haven't seen each other in awhile, there's grandpa who wants to be with everyone but also has to be kept an eye so he doesn't break an arm getting into his chair, coded insults here and there and while some some family members are legitimately happy to see each other some just want to stab the others.
him crawling with rhaenyra set between the throne and him was just perfect perfect subtle story telling and the fact that that was improvised in the moment chefs kiss
So Thanksgiving is just a big excuse to get together and feast, including relatives you might not see otherwise. Every family dynamic is different, so some family's are going to have that black sheep show up and cause a ruckus, others it might go off without a hitch (that's probably rarer).
The sheer terror on Otto Hightower's face when Viserys entered the throne room had me howling with laughter. Of course then about a minute later I was crying like a baby. That was by far my favorite scene in HotD, possibly also of GoT.
Probably the best episode so far in my opinion, totally agree with your points. As for the time jumps, I agree there as well. I don't think the time jumps were handled poorly, necessarily, but I think they were holding the show back from building up momentum in the narrative. There were several episodes that ended on big explosive scenes, but the time jump to the next episode kind of undercut their impact because we never really got to see the immediate fallout. It made it hard to feel too invested in anything that was happening at times. I'm very happy to hear that the time jumps will be over now, and that the narrative can play out in a more traditional way from here on.
I think Alicent knows he thought he was talking to Rhaenyra at the end, i read it as she was upset with the final confirmation he wasnt going to turn to her side (when she thought for a moment he was talking about their Aegon) and a sadness that in that same moment she also knows she will use this to go against his will
Oh I definitely feel for that family dinner. Thanksgiving is like Christmas or any family event that forces you to be in the same room with crazy family you never would opt to be about but your forced to play"" happy family"". Not all families do that but often of all the kids grow up together it definitely occurs more often.
This episode had me weeping uncontrollably through most of it. Every time I thought it couldn't get any sadder, Ramin plucked on the literal and proverbial strings again and it was just over. From the moment Daemon and Rhaenyra visited Viserys and Daemon could barely get out a coherent sentence in his grief, I was done for. And seeing Paddy so perfectly embody the dying old family member who has been hanging on for way too long... fuck, I get teary-eyed just thinking about it. The last roar of this dragon will absolutely go down in television history.
Every time I see a post or a video about this and rewatch, I get weepy too. Seeing the reaction videos, it looks like we all wept together (and still are). It's wonderful - Paddy put so much into this!
TBH I'm sort of an outlier I think, but I've never had a Thanksgiving where people argued or a crazy uncle got drunk and started going on about conspiracies. It's always been a genuinely nice time to hang out with family. I do think the memes definitely reflect a lot of peoples' experiences though lol.
It's sort of the same for me but for different reasons. Our family isn't super close with any of our other relatives so all throughout my childhood we've only had thanks giving with a couple aunts or cousins at a time. I think that Canadians also take Thanksgiving as a much less serious or important holiday than Americans do.
I hear you. I had a very small family of immigrants, so it always felt like we were re-enacting a sitcom of "white American Thanksgiving" in some way. It's still fascinating to see all the family dynamics of big families who've done TG for generations. And it really speaks to how relatable the directors and showrunners managed to make this show for so many people.
honestly the time jumps are done so well that I've really enjoyed them. seeing how the show handles them has been a real treat. like you said I never felt that I was missing out on story
As an American, I can assure you, that's exactly how Thanksgiving dinners go, starting with the attempts to be nice to each other and ending in full on brawls. The only thing missing the uncle that has to be rushed to the hospital with severe burns after trying to fry a frozen turkey.
I spent the last 10 minutes of that episode sobbing. I know Viserys was “weak” as a king but he was compassionate and he really loves his family. And when everyone was smiling and stuff during the dinner.. legit waterworks. The moment after dinner with Rhaenyra and Alicent was nice too though I remember in the book it says “nobody but the king was fooled” I like that they made it more genuine in the show.
Two things about Alicent that I would like to point out. 1. When she gave Dyanna the "moon tea", she had a tear rolling down her cheek, implying that she DID position her and she felt guilt. This is further implied when Helaena asks for Dyanna but Alicent is silent when she could've easily said that she simply left. 2. Alicent doesn't really mistake what Viserys was saying, she simply heard what she wanted to hear, that her son Aegon should be King. Alicent knew that Viserys was under the effects of milk of the poppy so he wasn't in his right mind. She didn't stop to think that he could've been just spewing nonsense or that he could've been talking about Aegon The Conqueror or Rhaenyra's son Aegon. It's less about miscommunication and more about her confirmation bias working with the fear and paranoia that Otto instilled in her all those years ago.
This episode is where it all came together emotionally for me, where I felt as invested as in any of the best season of Thrones. I also think the music during the dinner scene might be my favourite track Ramin has ever written for either show.
Also want to add Im glad you're not just purely hating on Alicent. I've seen creators literally compare her to a Trumper but that's not at all how I interpret her. What I love about this show is the ACTUAL ambiguity of these characters. There's no "Tyrionification" of either Rhaenyra or Alicent, like there was in the show Game of Thrones. They are both deeply flawed yet wholly sympathetic, but only if the viewer remains objective. So, yeah, I appreciate your objective review. And yes, I agree that Paddy very much captures the heartbreaking frailty of a dying father. The makeup can only take an actor so far. It's his body language and expressions, the way he speaks that really hammer my heart into absolute pulp 🥺
When Daemon helped Viserys on the throne my eyes got wet lol... his pain, avoiding looking at his brother who he messed with his whole life, now seeming like he wants to help him so much and not be able to... also, when Viserys told Allicent that thing with the prophecy I had to hold myself to not punch my table lol
I still haven't felt the strain of the time jumps. They just feel very natural to me, I don't think I'm missing anything, I'm just overall very happy with the progression
Daemon has really grown on me. I was very cautious and didn’t like him at times but after the big time jump where they changed the actors for Rhaenyra (no idea if I’m spelling these names right) and Alicent, I started to like him quite a bit and he became my favorite in this episode. And they do a VERY good job at setting up character motivation. I’m quite impressed with this series. I know I’m going to be unhappy in the end but I’m enjoying the ride right now haha
I had flashbacks to when my grandfather died when it first showed Viserys in this episode. It was spooky just how accurate it was to how my grandfather looked in his final moments, how pale he was and how thin he had grown. He had nine kids , including step children, and conflict had been leering among them for a good long while. But he wasn’t one to put up with peoples bull crap drama, he would pretty much say something on the lines of “suck it up buttercup before I make you two kiss”. This was before he really got sick. But the last thanksgiving he had he did something similar to what viserys did. He begged all his children to forgive each other and move on. Three weeks later he died and that thanksgiving was the last one that all of his children spent together. It was scary how accurate the show got this.
To your question as to how Thanksgiving works: It's a holiday that brings the extended family together for dinner - not the only one, but paradigmatic because there's little else to the holiday, and because it's not tied to a particular religion, as other holiday meals are. And yes, forced closeness brings its share of friction.
I agree with everything else that’s been said (I just loved this episode) and just want to add that one of the highlights of the dinner scene for me was Rhys Ifans’ facial expressions. When Alicent said she thought Rhaenyra would be a good queen and he went full “press x to doubt” I cackled. Same with Daemon’s little “really?” when Otto shouted for the guards after he killed Vaemond. Also this little exchange my sister and I had during the scene - “oh no, they had a nice moment, here come the lads to ruin it. ‘Strong boys’, Winky Joe you sassy bitch.” “He’s just Regina George with an eyepatch at this point.”
Honestly, I may have read Daemon differently from other people, as I've always viewed his rebellious actions more as him trying to figure out what he wants and trying to carve out a path for himself - that's why he snaps in the previous episode that he doesn't "need anything" from Viserys - but that he truly does love and care for his brother, even if the crown is part of why Daemon feels constrained by the relationship. He also seems to care for Rhaenyra (no comment on the problems of that, outside of this one) as one of the few people who actually seems to see through and understand him. Still, Paddy Considine's performance was fantastic and it was nice to see this brief moment of the families almost coming together and enjoying themselves. As someone who hasn't read the book (I'll do it after, but this show has been fascinating to watch this way), I am eager to see how it all falls apart. I do hope it relies more on internal conflicts and not this stupid prophecy plotline, I wish they'd never introduced that part.
I like how it manages to show peoples ambition. It was clear that Vaemond on some level was genuinely interested in Velaryon, yet if that was his only motivation he should of been happy when the two true born girls were going to wed. Or if Alicent was genuinely concerned with propriety and good leadership she would of seen that her boys were not fit to rule at all. Every character is completely human and you can see how these threads of ambition sour the better aspects of their nature.
I don't really have an issue with the time jumps because, as you've said, we don't miss out on the important parts of the story. It can feel a bit hectic, sure. We've been hopping from one story beat to the next, and I believe a strength of the original series was the amount of time it took to show characters, their relationships, and how they developed. However, given how much there is to come soon, I'm happy with how they used the time they were given. One of my favorite things this episode were the children, for sure! Alicent has raised hers with a lot of royal pressure and it strains the relationship between her and Aegon, especially (although I assume that the others struggle as well). Rhaenyra's kids seem much more at peace, at least until the dinner. Very excited to see them grow up!
Finally I saw some of the things I ask for in previus episodes. Daemon showing some effection and balls for his family. So I’m happy with that and moved by the moment as well. Best episode so far.
I absolutely loved this episode! It totally made me invest into the coming conflict. Paddy did such a good job selling his struggle and the moment he looked around at his family seemingly getting along, his sigh of relief genuinely made me happy to see. It was like a weight was lifted from his shoulders in what was obviously one of his final moments together with his family. You just knew that he was the sole thread binding this family together and the minute he left the room, The Dance of Dragons begins. Dispite my criticisms of each character... I can empathize with a part of each and can't even definitively say who im rooting for. Just an awesome episode!
No one has talked about Aegon and how this might have been abated if he had been given a proper place. He has a point when he says that nothing he does will ever be good enough for his father (it doesn't justify him being a terrible person, but it does explain a bit his lack of desire to try to be good). It reminds me of how Ned was thinking of giving Jon a small holding but didn't, so he felt he had to join the Night's Watch. Maybe Aegon II should have been given some land to quietly raise children on instead of making sure that all of Rhaenyra's enemies are nearest the Iron Throne when Viserys died.
My granddad had multiple hip breaks and each time he had a long recovery due to bed sores and circulation issues. By the end he was a double amputee and died of kidney failure which also gave him dementia.
I found this episode to really cement the pure and brutally truly f*cked tragedy that is this whole conflict. Not only is it a familial civil war, it's quite literally tearing the nation apart, eswcpailly since the greens were 100% wrong about their assumptions that everyone felt the way they did. The show brings this into full emotional swing with the mothers who largely started this train of hate, have a chance, a real tangible chance at peace, to end their own rivalry, but it's too late, for their own blood, have inherited the burden without knowing the costs. The moment between Luke and Aemond, I felt this impending doom, as he starred at him, I could sense that Luke was looking at the eye patch, and for a moment he smirked, as a nervous relief that things are finally at peace and bam Aemond broke the harmony, as well Aegon
From day one I always had the impression that despite all his flaws Daemon is so very much like Viserys because they both hold the family so dear. He wanted the crown but could never even consider taking it by force from his brother. it took Daemon far longer to stop putting himself before family but now we see him act as a proper father. In the mean time I think the show tries to show through non verbal acting alone how much Otto respects Viserys despite everything. Otto acts for the good of the realm and genuinely cares for the King and his good nature, he probably saw something of King Jaehaerys in Viserys. The only thing I might have a problem with is that it is the Prophecy that fucks everything up. I wanted it to be Otto who ended up pushing Aegons claim to avert civil war, because of all the people in this game of thrones I can believe that in spite of him seeing the start of mending the rifts between the blacks and greens he would chose stability and the safety of his daughter over everything else. We might still see that but with Alicent having heard a jumbled wish from Viserys she can easily construe as his support for the greens it feels like a cheap shot having her make the fatal choice now
All Daemon wanted was to be Viserys' Hand. To protect his brother and family's name. Had Viserys let Daemon marry Rhaenyra, none of these bastards problems would occur. Understand that Daemon never really wanted the throne. It was so obvious in Episode 1. But Viserys kept pushing Daemon away when all Daemon wanted to do was PROTECT HIS FAMILY. Otto manipulated to have Viserys and Daemon be separated and be against each other. This was Daemon's first time in King's Landing in 16 years I think both finally saw what they did was wrong. Daemon assumed Viserys was weak when Viserys became the strongest at his weakest. For causing chaos when Viserys always tried to protect him. Viserys was wrong for pushing Daemon away. But in the end, Viserys finally saw his brother really did love him and only wanted to protect him just like he did for him in the council. The love between brothers was never gone. Only fitting that it was Daemon to help Viserys walk up and sit on the Iron Throne one final time to help Rhaenyra. It was Daemon to crown Viserys one final time. The scene is one of the most iconic scenes you will ever see in this GOT-verse TV lore. A scene that makes you stand up and cheer wiping tears in your eyes.
Its just so good to listen to aomeone who understands the source material well go into more detail into a thing you love. Theres just no better content.
In America, Thanksgiving is that time of year when all the members of a family converge from all over the country to the ancestral family home all for the purpose of reminding themselves why they scattered in the first place.
This episode was great. The thing I was thinking the whole time while watching the dinner scene was what you had said about parents pulling their children into their conflict. And because it's been going for over 6 years, now they are unable to stop the seeds of hate they had planted in their kids from growing. I didn't read the books but when I see this, it appears that raising their kids like this will blow straight into their faces and they will be forced to fight each other for fear of their kids' safety. The other tragic thing I see is how both Rynera and Alicent are willing to give up the throne. Neither of them is happy with having and keeping power but they might start fighting not for the power itself but rather for fear of what the other side might do if they are powerfull enough. This is brilliant because it would be easy for scriptwriters to be like "Rynera good, Alicent bad" but (just like you) I care for both sides and I don't want to be team Rynera of team Alicent. That brings so much emotional depth int the story that is rarely seen in popculture. In 2016 I was counting for such situation with Steve and Iron Man but there it just fell flat. That is why I am really worried if HotD will manage to keep the story going like that but for now they really are making a great job and the show is a 9/10 for me.
I will actually miss the time jumps. Is there stuff that they skipped that I would have liked to see? Yes. Is there stuff I needed to see that they skipped? No. I love being thrown into a new situation and having to figure out how the characters have changed from their glances and subtle changes in how they talk to each other and stuff. It's just so engaging for me. Personally, the episodes that didn't really have a big time jump (2 and 7) even though they contained some awesome moments and were very solid episodes, lacked something for me. The extra kick of the time jump was always welcomed by me.
I'm from the US, and Thanksgiving... CAN be that way. I lucked into a... mostly good family (quiet estrangment of my cousin after she transitioned by the parents of the family) so thanksgiving isn't so much that way, but it is that way for a lot of people.
The showrunners could introduce Vaemunds "son(s)" in season two by explaining they were off doing things in Essos while Vaemund tried to be named as Corly's successor. Mayhaps they choose to "avenge" their father and fight for the greens.
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I think this is the moment Viserys finally gained Daemon’s respect. Daemon always considered his brother to be a weak king that could never stand up for himself. Now he’s watching him endure unimaginable agony to protect his family. And in that moment Daemon realizes how wrong he was. 😭
Viserys is the one true king
He was right, but like- in that moment he wasn't that.
I actually think people always misunderstood Daemon on this. He never wanted the throne. In the books it’s even made clear that Daemon rallying forces is what helped crown Viserys. Daemon always just wanted to be at his brother’s side. Imagine if he was hand of the king, instead of Otto.
@@ghostdreamer7272 Exactly! In episode 1 Daemon (correctly) points out that Viscerys is weak and vultures like Otto are manipulating him. However, there was never a doubt that he genuinely loves his brother and that he was motivated more by a desire to protect him, than his own ambition for power. In this episode-as with when he shut down Corlys for talking shit-he proved that he really does have Viserys's back, which is in direct contrast to Otto, who just seems pissed off that his plan to ally the Greens with the Valarions had been derailed.
The scene where Daemon helps Viserys and crowns him in the throne room was improvised.
I love Viserys being strongest at his weakest lol
He is Biden of the the show
@@karanbhatt9320 wtf
@@karanbhatt9320 bruh
@@karanbhatt9320 Bisen could hope to be a percent of viserys
@@karanbhatt9320 Viserys actually cares about people. Whereas Trump is the child king Geoffrey, Viserys only resembles Biden for his indecisiveness early on. You'll never see Viserys sniff a girl's hair, even in a timeline where girls were taken young, Viserys said "she's too young"
I read that Paddy was drawing a lot from his mom, who suffered from diabetes and had multiple amputations. He apparently went REALLY deep on these scenes, to the point that others were a little concerned. It makes me love and respect him even more for his amazing work as Viserys because he gave us so much.
His father died of cancer, I believe? There was a New Yorker article where he was talking about how that informed a lot of the degradation.
Where did you read that? Not that I don't believe you, but I would love to read about it myself
@@hollandscottthomas Wow, his father went through that? Poor guy; he's seen both of this parents go through hell.
@@domenceuspriest It’s NY Times article, sorry! I tried to post the link but YT auto-deleted it. It’ll come up in google, though it’s behind a paywall so you’ll have to pull a workaround (ios reader etc)
@@Utterlyderanged Ah, looks like YT doesn't allow links. It's NYT, title is "In ‘House of the Dragon,’ Paddy Considine Claims the Crown"
quote:
Considine said he based the physically ailing Viserys partly on his mother, who went through multiple amputations resulting from diabetes before dying of a heart attack. Colleagues said watching him inhabit the role sometimes bordered on concerning.
“He turns himself inside out in his performance, and that metamorphosis is sometimes really painful to watch,” said Olivia Cooke, who stars as Alicent Hightower, a woman close to Viserys. “We spoke about it, and the only way he can access his performance, sometimes, is to go to such a horrid and painful place.”
Book readers whenever the camera panned to him: Say the line, Aemond!
Aemond: These three Strong boys.
Book readers (and everyone else): *YAAAYYYYYY!*
“Let us drain our cups to these three handsome… wise… charming… pious… steadfast… capable… loyal… diligent… skilled… adventurous… compassionate… honest… brave… noble young boys!
…shit i missed one.”
@@Longshanks1690 Ah well, Let us toast to their foreFather's House of Fire!
@@Longshanks1690 Aemond forgetting the bad-ass one liner he had rehearsed in his head for the past three days.
I almost thought we weren't going to get this line... Then it happened!
@@peculiarpangolin4638 just standing there staring into his cup in abject horror as everyone around him goes “that was surprisingly nice Aemond, thank you”.
A small thing that I liked, when Jace asked Helaena to dance and you see them both smiling and having a good time, you think back to a few episodes ago when Rhanyera tried to arrange their marriage and suddenly this small moment becomes a glimpse at what could have been.
I bet Alicent regrets it deeply. She hates what happened to herself yet condemns her daughter to the same fate. Worse, Aegon turns out to be a drunk and a r*pist. "You are no son of mine." Maybe if Alicent wasn't so disgusted by Jace's "illegitimacy", her daughter would have led a happier life. And, in extension, her grandchildren. Very tragic indeed.
@@ladyvader2648 She wasn’t disgusted by his illegitimacy, she was disgusted that Rhaenyra lied to her about her activities.
I think this also illustrates that Rhaenyra raised decent, honorable human beings and Alicent raised sociopaths.
You know you’ve done a good job with a character when the original author says he’s tempted to rewrite the original book because he loved your portrayal so much.
So glad to see Paddy Considine getting the praise he deserves for the character (along with the writers and showrunners too).
If you told me last year that the most powerful and emotional scene put on our screens in 2022 would be a decrepit, crumbling old man struggle to walk across a room, I would never have believed you.
But… here we are. 😢 🥺
Hats off to Paddy and Matt for making this an emotional powerhouse of a scene and to Ramin for doing everything humanly possible to make sure the accompanying music was as epic and heartfelt as he could. 👏
If Paddy Considine doesn't get an Emmy next year, i will slap the hosts
@@LuisSierra42 KEEP PADDY’S NAME IN YO FUCKING MOUTH!!!
@@LuisSierra42 Count me in.
His acting was so top-level that it actually made me question my loathing of the horrible system of patriarchy.
I wasn't expecting this show to have so many relatable and emotional moments, given how GoT went. But even though it's about royalty, the show manages to hit that sweet spot of Shakespearean tragedy that draws on so many truly human struggles.
The cast is so excellent, and Paddy gives so much throughout this.
Everyone is talking about Daemon and Viserys making it up the throne. What did it for me was that scene where Rhaenyra admits to Viserys she doesn't want the burden of ruling anymore but if he wants her to she needs him to help defend her and her children's succession. And to see that little look Rhaemyra amd Viserys share during his agonizing walk literally on his last day in the world Viserys gave all the energy he had in him to defend Rhaenyra one more time giving her and his grandson a reaffirmation of his belief in their ascension.
That scene of viserys struggling to get up on the throne... As a disabled person, oof, it hit hard. He's trying so hard to cling to whatever dignity he has left and pushing his body beyond what it can actually do anymore. I really felt for him.
Your ending, where you say, "can't you hear the music? The Dance is about to begin." Is worth more than any amount of marketing. The hype you garnered in me is insane. I want to run, jump, scream, fight. Truly epic ending.
Agreed. Good poetry beats flashy special effects.
A small thing I liked is that Aemond didn’t do anything the entire dinner until Luke laughed at the pig being put tin front of him and that was the straw that broke the camels back
I do like how the audience didn’t hear what they were talking about either so for all we know they could have been laughing at the eyepatch like Aemond probably thought (although I doubt that considering Luc already saw how skilled he is even with the disability) Similarly, you could read Jace asking Helena to dance as being to spite Aegon or him trying to be nice to Helena and strengthen their show of camaraderie. After his comments, it would make perfect sense for Jace to be disrespectful back, but a dance can be diplomatic. No one really knows what was truly in either of their heads
True. But you could sense the tension and the build up with him. He kind of wanted something like this to happen, to unleash himself.
He's such a badass I love him
@@alliew31 with Jace and Helaena, it’s especially murky because it was just after she talked about how bad a husband Aegon is. That adds fuel to both “the dance is a fuck you to Aegon” and “he just wants to do something nice with his aunt”.
I really loved Helaena in this episode and how she’s trying to keep her marriage together while Aegon sleeps around and doesn’t care about his wife or children
He has children?
I mean she doesn't mince words at the dinner party when she says something to the effect of "Being married is not that bad, he mostly ignores you." Which is fine, because Aegon is a piece of sh*t who assaults his staff.
@@thesamuraiman 2-3 I think…
@@thesamuraiman the twins have been bore for sure by now. But I’m not sure about the baby yet? It might be too soon, I’m not sure?
@@thesamuraiman those are the legitimate children. He has 2 acknowledged illegitimate children too, maybe more. So at least 5. But it could be as low as 3 total in the books. The twins and one illegitimate are guaranteed in the show. We might get baby Maelor soon, and a 2nd illegitimate.
This episode truly sealed Rings of Powers fate for me. For all their budget, for all their CGI, the image of a broken, dieing old man, taking his last steps to save his family is something none of us will ever forget and tells us firmly which show will stand the test of time.
Heavens above the unfortunate trash that is RoP. Just constant vapid dialogue, unlikable, incomprehensible characters can't match the characterization HotD provides its characters and world.
@@Tripleat117 it's really that bad?
@@Argos-xb8ek I personally don't find it, like, bad-bad, just very boring
I don't understand why people keep comparing these shows as if they were in a competition or something. I am enjoying RoP, I am also enjoying HotD, but I don't expect them to be similar or even comparable. RoP is the usual fantasy story with stereotypical characters, Good vs. Evil, prophecies, magic, eccetera. HotD is a character driven story, similar to those series about the Tudor or the Bolgia families. Sure, we can compare some elements of the two shows, but it's very clear to me that they have very different purposes. RoP never strived to be even close to what HotD is, and this has been apparent from the very start, so please let's stop having this smug attitude towards a show you don't like even when it has nothing to do with the conversation.
@@thesamuraiman That's almost worse tbh, at least bad-bad can be enjoyed ironically. Boring is just... nothing.
If Paddy Considine doesn't get an Emmy nomination for this episode I will go feral
You’re the only other reactor/reviewer I’ve seen catch the lovely bit about how Rhaenys was somewhat ambiguous about her intentions (pushing either for herself to ascend, or backing Vaemond’s claim, or supporting Rhaneyra, or her true born granddaughters) prior to Viserys walking in. At which point she publicly voiced her agreement to Rhaenyra’s desperate offer, forcing her to keep her word now regardless of her victory. Love that type of subtlety!
She would of been such a good queen.
I didn't catch that, Rhaenys was really good in this episode
@@LightsOnTrees would have
I'm surprised I didn't catch how she did that to get Rhaenyra to keep her word
This episode was absolutely heartbreaking. Knowing everything that comes next is all because of wife misunderstanding her dying husband's words... Shit
She didn't missunderstand, she understood what she wanted to hear. The whole point of the scene is to show that Lady Alicent is long gone and she's her head filled up to much by his father to allow Rhaenyra to rule.
One of the best aspect of the show is that there aren't any inherently bad characters. Although the Hightowers have an ambition to the throne it isn't because they want it out of pride or in spite of the Targaryen. They honestly believe thst it would be best for the reign and that it's their duty to seize the crown
@@davidfernandez8515 "she didn't misunderstand, she understood what she wanted to hear"
If I told you to buy oranges and you bought me an adorable orange tabby, I would say you really wanted that orange tabby.
But you misunderstood me.
@@davidfernandez8515 I don’t think it’s her ambition. She was furious with Aegon earlier which is probably why she was willing to give Rhaenyra a chance. She thought he really wanted Aegon to rule and just didn’t want to offend Rhaenyra. Should she have taken his words to heart while he was drugged up? No, especially when he said earlier he wanted to everyone to be a happy family and passing over Rhaenyra after years would have caused an unrepairable divide, but she wasn’t doing it out of ambition
Yeah it’s brilliant that once again super sleuth Alicent just has information dropped on her lap. It’s suuuuuch good writing that people just tell her things and she just flaps in the breeze, without thought or agency.
@@inspectorpenguin4474 Allicent has no agency in this story? You mean when she's forced to do things she is definitely uncomfortable with doing early in the story? Because at that point yes, Allicent doesn't actually have much agency.
Now though? She's entirety changed as a person, with more power to make changes and try and protect her family. As for information to fall on her lap, I think is a gross simplification as to the cause/effect of how this information got to her.
And as for agency, don't forget its actually been a theme they've been exploring, and while there are things allicent hasn't had agency for when it came to in the first episodes, when she gets the information its always been her choice as to how to use the information she comes across.
D-aemon Aemon- D
They're the same person, Essentially.
I love that apparently the crown falling and Daemon picking it up wasnt scripted.
Viserys was by far my favorite character, and one of my favorite of recent television. Watching him navigate through this and handle things was great, and his final throne scene was just so perfect.
The Viserys walk scene was magnificent. No other way to slice it. I rarely get emotional in shows these days but that scene hit me pretty hard, the sheer determination and devotion of this old man to his daughter. No exaggeration in saying that's one of the best scenes in GOT history, they've never done anything like that before.
That scene slapped harder than anything in this series so far. After a couple of episodes that were a little "meh", the sheer emotion in Visery's visibly painful walk through the throne room, the moment with Daemon, or how he put Otto into his place one last time, all hit really hard.
The throne room walk was incredibly powerful.
Hats off to Paddy for his performance as the King.
what i love about the dinner scene is i feel like all the adults are actually ready to make peace after all the shit they ve been throught and neither rheanyra nor allicent actually want war but their fight is now passed on to the next generation showing that is just too late and the fight is unevitable.
Episode 8 was terrific, all around. The look on Viserys' face as he surveys the room -- he knows this will be the last time these people will be in a room together, "peaceful" like this. He knows his feeble body and harried breath is the only thing keeping them from tearing each other apart. I don't think he was idealistic enough to think his final speech actually truly worked (especially with the looks on Otto's face throughout the dinner and when his face falls) In fact, as soon as he is carried out of the room, violence erupts immediately. I feel so bad for him. What a performance by Paddy Considine. And I think we were all theorizing that Alicent might misinterpret Viserys' last words, and it seems that's exactly what happens. She cannot in good conscience thinks this is the one (1) time Viserys is lucid enough to make proclamations on who should sit the throne... but she will use it as justification to install her son on it nevertheless. The final two episodes cannot come any sooner!
I love how absolutely Smitten Daemon is with Aemond. It's hard to see because of the lighting, but after their standoff when Aemond walks away, Daemon looks at Rhaenyra with a huge smile almost as if to say "That one is AWESOME."
Not sure if that's what Daemon thinks of him, but it's not hard to believe if that is the case. He could definitely see a lot of himself in Aemond. Aemond definitely seemed to in some ways admire him, especially after what he did to Vaemond in the throne room.
He certainly sees his younger self in Aemond. Daemon used to say things to Otto to elicit reactions out of him.
Aemond definitely looks up to his uncle, and his uncle sees a lot his younger self in his nephew. But I'm not certain Daemon is the kind of man who likes people that remind him of himself. I think it's a good testament of Daemon's maturing that he didn't respond to the provocation but instead quietly stared Aemond down.
@@nezfromhki also, despite how logically stupid it was, can we give credit to Vaemond’s massive fucking balls for saying the quiet part out loud? “They, are, *BASTARDS!* and the Princess is a *whore!”* Daemon’s “day it” egging him On was just great too. The thing is, Aemond does the exact same thing but in a far more under handed way, “strong boys” and all of that.
All the what ifs in this episode were fantastic; what if Viserys had named Damon as Hand; what if Jace and Halena had been betrothed and married; what if Rhenyra and Alicent made amends. This episode just lined up all the paths not taken to give those glimpses of hope in what could have been and how many ways this could have been avoided and the echos of the consequences of all those choices leading us to where we are now. This episode really summarized all the reasons that lead to the war beautifully.
Let’s face facts, Daemon would be a horrible hand. Way too impulsive, but shouldn’t have gotten snubbed
@@alliew31 Daemon post episode 6ish would have probably made a decent Hand, but definitely not before that. Choosing Daemon after Lyonel Strong instead of Otto again
Jace marrying Helaena does nothing to nullify Aegon's claim, and that's the competing claim that matters. You think Otto and his brother would just raise their hands and give up because Aegon's younger sister is married off to Rhaenyra's bastard?
@@AllTheArtsy not at all but Halena would be much better treated and happier and that's really the what if that I care about because she is a gem and so does not deserve everything that has and will happen to her
@@AllTheArtsy Jace marrying Helaena dispels Alicent's argument that the Strong boys are bastards. How can she keep making the argument in good faith once her daughter is married to Jace? And as that is the primary thing she uses to delegitamize Rhaenyra's claim, it removes a lot of the weight from her point. She never brings up that Rheanyra is a woman, or would be a bad ruler, or that she has few political allies. Her only argument is that Rhaenyra's kids are bastards.
Viserys walking through the throne room determined to sit in that damned chair one last time is somehow more epic than all the battle scenes in Rings of Power (and this show as well for that matter). That says soemthing about the quality of both shows. I’m not sure what but it says something .
First time in years a show has made this 32 year old man tear up. Excellent characters and character writing. Various plot threads coming together and weaving in and out.
Paddy deserves an Emmy as Viserys finally got his Eamma.
Seriously though, a certain other show could learn a thing or 2 about time passage and character writing from this show.
Agreed, this was an incredible episode. The slowness of Viserys movement throughout and the intimacy and stretching of each of the scenes with the dinner and each time someone would visit Viserys in his bed, made it feel like we were viewing the slowmotion shot of a bomb ticking down to the last seconds. I am bracing for the "dance".
Also, man oh man do I feel like Rhaenys is done so dirty - her family murdered, fake murdered, dying tragically, killed left and right. As someone who has not read Fire and Blood, I am nervous for how this all could lead to her villain origin story. She certainly has much to support it. I suppose marrying into a naval family makes some of this part of the package but ugh give her a break !!!
Rhaenys does not become a villain, but she does not survive the dance of the dragons.
For real. The fact that she remains magnanimous throughout sort of subtly confirms that she really should have been queen all along. The Targaryens finished what the Doom of Valyria started by passing on her.
This episode moved me. I wept. It delivered everything the show has been building up to, and to me, it fully vindicates the show's choices in how to tell the story. I think they've done an amazing job
I absolutely loved this episode. Definitely my favorite so far and, to me, the best GOT/ASOIAF/GRRM content we've had on screen since season 4 of the original show. It's rekindled my love for GRRM's world and its lore. The time jumps have been unfortunate, but they've handled them about as well as possible. Just wish we could have had more time with Harwin and Laena in particular. And Paddy Considine deserves an Emmy or something. Made me cry three times in a single episode. Also, Helaena's line about the beasts beneath the boards might be referring to that one scene in the book (if you know you know).
Paddy talking about all the experiences of his real life feeding into how he portrayed viserys' illness was super emotional. He put everything into this character and you can really feel it. Gonna miss him alot 🥲
Giant volcano explodes: I sleep
Old man crosses a room: I weep.
I love that this show is just ‘what if succession was fantasy?’
"The northern United States, otherwise known as Canada"
*_shots fired_*
"A toast! To these Strong boys..." I have a new favorite villain. I haven't seen such a commanding, malevolent character since BOOK Euron.
"aemond" is an anagram of "daemon"
As an American, yes that's basically what Thanksgiving is like. Bunch of people at the table who haven't seen each other in awhile, there's grandpa who wants to be with everyone but also has to be kept an eye so he doesn't break an arm getting into his chair, coded insults here and there and while some some family members are legitimately happy to see each other some just want to stab the others.
I think helaena’s line about the beast might actually be referring to blood and cheese
I think this episode explains why Rhaenyra doesn't end up killing Alicent later on when she had he chance.
When Daemon helped his brother up to his throne and put the crown back on...I'm not crying I'm just cutting onions
him crawling with rhaenyra set between the throne and him was just perfect perfect subtle story telling and the fact that that was improvised in the moment chefs kiss
So Thanksgiving is just a big excuse to get together and feast, including relatives you might not see otherwise. Every family dynamic is different, so some family's are going to have that black sheep show up and cause a ruckus, others it might go off without a hitch (that's probably rarer).
This rivals the very best of GoT. What a mastercraft in story telling, acting, writing, and directing. And can't forget the musical score.
The sheer terror on Otto Hightower's face when Viserys entered the throne room had me howling with laughter. Of course then about a minute later I was crying like a baby. That was by far my favorite scene in HotD, possibly also of GoT.
Probably the best episode so far in my opinion, totally agree with your points.
As for the time jumps, I agree there as well. I don't think the time jumps were handled poorly, necessarily, but I think they were holding the show back from building up momentum in the narrative. There were several episodes that ended on big explosive scenes, but the time jump to the next episode kind of undercut their impact because we never really got to see the immediate fallout. It made it hard to feel too invested in anything that was happening at times. I'm very happy to hear that the time jumps will be over now, and that the narrative can play out in a more traditional way from here on.
I think Alicent knows he thought he was talking to Rhaenyra at the end, i read it as she was upset with the final confirmation he wasnt going to turn to her side (when she thought for a moment he was talking about their Aegon) and a sadness that in that same moment she also knows she will use this to go against his will
Oh I definitely feel for that family dinner. Thanksgiving is like Christmas or any family event that forces you to be in the same room with crazy family you never would opt to be about but your forced to play"" happy family"". Not all families do that but often of all the kids grow up together it definitely occurs more often.
The Last March of Viserys Targaryen was simply magnificent television.
Everyone deserves Emmys, Paddy Considine, The writers, The composer.
This episode had me weeping uncontrollably through most of it. Every time I thought it couldn't get any sadder, Ramin plucked on the literal and proverbial strings again and it was just over.
From the moment Daemon and Rhaenyra visited Viserys and Daemon could barely get out a coherent sentence in his grief, I was done for. And seeing Paddy so perfectly embody the dying old family member who has been hanging on for way too long... fuck, I get teary-eyed just thinking about it. The last roar of this dragon will absolutely go down in television history.
Every time I see a post or a video about this and rewatch, I get weepy too. Seeing the reaction videos, it looks like we all wept together (and still are). It's wonderful - Paddy put so much into this!
TBH I'm sort of an outlier I think, but I've never had a Thanksgiving where people argued or a crazy uncle got drunk and started going on about conspiracies. It's always been a genuinely nice time to hang out with family. I do think the memes definitely reflect a lot of peoples' experiences though lol.
It's sort of the same for me but for different reasons. Our family isn't super close with any of our other relatives so all throughout my childhood we've only had thanks giving with a couple aunts or cousins at a time. I think that Canadians also take Thanksgiving as a much less serious or important holiday than Americans do.
Yeah, my Thanksgivings are always very pleasant but I enjoy the memes!
I hear you. I had a very small family of immigrants, so it always felt like we were re-enacting a sitcom of "white American Thanksgiving" in some way. It's still fascinating to see all the family dynamics of big families who've done TG for generations. And it really speaks to how relatable the directors and showrunners managed to make this show for so many people.
Superb episode! Paddy Considine has been phenomenal
I think it would have been nice to see an episode or two in the middle of the time skips to show the difference in how the kids were raised
honestly the time jumps are done so well that I've really enjoyed them. seeing how the show handles them has been a real treat. like you said I never felt that I was missing out on story
As an American, I can assure you, that's exactly how Thanksgiving dinners go, starting with the attempts to be nice to each other and ending in full on brawls. The only thing missing the uncle that has to be rushed to the hospital with severe burns after trying to fry a frozen turkey.
Alicent holding onto Rheanyras arm asking her to stay longer... I nearly cried
Daemon and Aemond are so similar that all you have to do is move the "D" to the end of the name!
I spent the last 10 minutes of that episode sobbing. I know Viserys was “weak” as a king but he was compassionate and he really loves his family. And when everyone was smiling and stuff during the dinner.. legit waterworks.
The moment after dinner with Rhaenyra and Alicent was nice too though I remember in the book it says “nobody but the king was fooled” I like that they made it more genuine in the show.
Two things about Alicent that I would like to point out.
1. When she gave Dyanna the "moon tea", she had a tear rolling down her cheek, implying that she DID position her and she felt guilt. This is further implied when Helaena asks for Dyanna but Alicent is silent when she could've easily said that she simply left.
2. Alicent doesn't really mistake what Viserys was saying, she simply heard what she wanted to hear, that her son Aegon should be King. Alicent knew that Viserys was under the effects of milk of the poppy so he wasn't in his right mind. She didn't stop to think that he could've been just spewing nonsense or that he could've been talking about Aegon The Conqueror or Rhaenyra's son Aegon. It's less about miscommunication and more about her confirmation bias working with the fear and paranoia that Otto instilled in her all those years ago.
Viserys showed that he’s still a dragon
This episode is where it all came together emotionally for me, where I felt as invested as in any of the best season of Thrones. I also think the music during the dinner scene might be my favourite track Ramin has ever written for either show.
Also want to add Im glad you're not just purely hating on Alicent. I've seen creators literally compare her to a Trumper but that's not at all how I interpret her. What I love about this show is the ACTUAL ambiguity of these characters. There's no "Tyrionification" of either Rhaenyra or Alicent, like there was in the show Game of Thrones. They are both deeply flawed yet wholly sympathetic, but only if the viewer remains objective. So, yeah, I appreciate your objective review.
And yes, I agree that Paddy very much captures the heartbreaking frailty of a dying father. The makeup can only take an actor so far. It's his body language and expressions, the way he speaks that really hammer my heart into absolute pulp 🥺
All the emotional buildup just came out in tears on my face when Daemon helped Viserys up to the throne
When Daemon helped Viserys on the throne my eyes got wet lol... his pain, avoiding looking at his brother who he messed with his whole life, now seeming like he wants to help him so much and not be able to... also, when Viserys told Allicent that thing with the prophecy I had to hold myself to not punch my table lol
Can't wait till we see why Aemond is called "The KINslayer"!
I still haven't felt the strain of the time jumps. They just feel very natural to me, I don't think I'm missing anything, I'm just overall very happy with the progression
Daemon has really grown on me. I was very cautious and didn’t like him at times but after the big time jump where they changed the actors for Rhaenyra (no idea if I’m spelling these names right) and Alicent, I started to like him quite a bit and he became my favorite in this episode. And they do a VERY good job at setting up character motivation. I’m quite impressed with this series. I know I’m going to be unhappy in the end but I’m enjoying the ride right now haha
I had flashbacks to when my grandfather died when it first showed Viserys in this episode. It was spooky just how accurate it was to how my grandfather looked in his final moments, how pale he was and how thin he had grown. He had nine kids , including step children, and conflict had been leering among them for a good long while. But he wasn’t one to put up with peoples bull crap drama, he would pretty much say something on the lines of “suck it up buttercup before I make you two kiss”. This was before he really got sick. But the last thanksgiving he had he did something similar to what viserys did. He begged all his children to forgive each other and move on. Three weeks later he died and that thanksgiving was the last one that all of his children spent together. It was scary how accurate the show got this.
i started crying from the moment viserys entered the throne room and haven't stopped until the end of the episode. god.
Ya watching a loved one wither away is tuff. Parkinson's took my grandmother also and it is not easy. You basically have to watch them die twice.
To your question as to how Thanksgiving works: It's a holiday that brings the extended family together for dinner - not the only one, but paradigmatic because there's little else to the holiday, and because it's not tied to a particular religion, as other holiday meals are. And yes, forced closeness brings its share of friction.
I agree with everything else that’s been said (I just loved this episode) and just want to add that one of the highlights of the dinner scene for me was Rhys Ifans’ facial expressions. When Alicent said she thought Rhaenyra would be a good queen and he went full “press x to doubt” I cackled. Same with Daemon’s little “really?” when Otto shouted for the guards after he killed Vaemond.
Also this little exchange my sister and I had during the scene - “oh no, they had a nice moment, here come the lads to ruin it. ‘Strong boys’, Winky Joe you sassy bitch.”
“He’s just Regina George with an eyepatch at this point.”
Honestly, I may have read Daemon differently from other people, as I've always viewed his rebellious actions more as him trying to figure out what he wants and trying to carve out a path for himself - that's why he snaps in the previous episode that he doesn't "need anything" from Viserys - but that he truly does love and care for his brother, even if the crown is part of why Daemon feels constrained by the relationship. He also seems to care for Rhaenyra (no comment on the problems of that, outside of this one) as one of the few people who actually seems to see through and understand him.
Still, Paddy Considine's performance was fantastic and it was nice to see this brief moment of the families almost coming together and enjoying themselves. As someone who hasn't read the book (I'll do it after, but this show has been fascinating to watch this way), I am eager to see how it all falls apart. I do hope it relies more on internal conflicts and not this stupid prophecy plotline, I wish they'd never introduced that part.
Paddy ate up every scene he was in. Hope he gets all the awards.
New tradition, to watch this episode 8 on Thanksgiving. Chills
Ewan Mitchell stole the show for me. His Aemond is badass incarnate, and that crazy eye he gives is SSS tier.
I like how it manages to show peoples ambition. It was clear that Vaemond on some level was genuinely interested in Velaryon, yet if that was his only motivation he should of been happy when the two true born girls were going to wed. Or if Alicent was genuinely concerned with propriety and good leadership she would of seen that her boys were not fit to rule at all.
Every character is completely human and you can see how these threads of ambition sour the better aspects of their nature.
I don't really have an issue with the time jumps because, as you've said, we don't miss out on the important parts of the story. It can feel a bit hectic, sure. We've been hopping from one story beat to the next, and I believe a strength of the original series was the amount of time it took to show characters, their relationships, and how they developed. However, given how much there is to come soon, I'm happy with how they used the time they were given.
One of my favorite things this episode were the children, for sure! Alicent has raised hers with a lot of royal pressure and it strains the relationship between her and Aegon, especially (although I assume that the others struggle as well). Rhaenyra's kids seem much more at peace, at least until the dinner. Very excited to see them grow up!
I liked the way you finished:
“…. the Dance is about to begin…”
Finally I saw some of the things I ask for in previus episodes. Daemon showing some effection and balls for his family. So I’m happy with that and moved by the moment as well. Best episode so far.
I absolutely loved this episode! It totally made me invest into the coming conflict. Paddy did such a good job selling his struggle and the moment he looked around at his family seemingly getting along, his sigh of relief genuinely made me happy to see. It was like a weight was lifted from his shoulders in what was obviously one of his final moments together with his family. You just knew that he was the sole thread binding this family together and the minute he left the room, The Dance of Dragons begins. Dispite my criticisms of each character... I can empathize with a part of each and can't even definitively say who im rooting for. Just an awesome episode!
No one has talked about Aegon and how this might have been abated if he had been given a proper place. He has a point when he says that nothing he does will ever be good enough for his father (it doesn't justify him being a terrible person, but it does explain a bit his lack of desire to try to be good). It reminds me of how Ned was thinking of giving Jon a small holding but didn't, so he felt he had to join the Night's Watch. Maybe Aegon II should have been given some land to quietly raise children on instead of making sure that all of Rhaenyra's enemies are nearest the Iron Throne when Viserys died.
My granddad had multiple hip breaks and each time he had a long recovery due to bed sores and circulation issues. By the end he was a double amputee and died of kidney failure which also gave him dementia.
I found this episode to really cement the pure and brutally truly f*cked tragedy that is this whole conflict. Not only is it a familial civil war, it's quite literally tearing the nation apart, eswcpailly since the greens were 100% wrong about their assumptions that everyone felt the way they did. The show brings this into full emotional swing with the mothers who largely started this train of hate, have a chance, a real tangible chance at peace, to end their own rivalry, but it's too late, for their own blood, have inherited the burden without knowing the costs.
The moment between Luke and Aemond, I felt this impending doom, as he starred at him, I could sense that Luke was looking at the eye patch, and for a moment he smirked, as a nervous relief that things are finally at peace and bam Aemond broke the harmony, as well Aegon
Viserys walking to the throne is honestly one of the best scenes of tv I have ever watched
In the nothern part of Mexico in most of the border towns we also celebrate Thanksgiving and I can assure you it is like this 😁
From day one I always had the impression that despite all his flaws Daemon is so very much like Viserys because they both hold the family so dear. He wanted the crown but could never even consider taking it by force from his brother. it took Daemon far longer to stop putting himself before family but now we see him act as a proper father. In the mean time I think the show tries to show through non verbal acting alone how much Otto respects Viserys despite everything. Otto acts for the good of the realm and genuinely cares for the King and his good nature, he probably saw something of King Jaehaerys in Viserys. The only thing I might have a problem with is that it is the Prophecy that fucks everything up. I wanted it to be Otto who ended up pushing Aegons claim to avert civil war, because of all the people in this game of thrones I can believe that in spite of him seeing the start of mending the rifts between the blacks and greens he would chose stability and the safety of his daughter over everything else. We might still see that but with Alicent having heard a jumbled wish from Viserys she can easily construe as his support for the greens it feels like a cheap shot having her make the fatal choice now
Paddy deserves ALL of the awards for this episode 😊
Paddy really killed it
All Daemon wanted was to be Viserys' Hand. To protect his brother and family's name. Had Viserys let Daemon marry Rhaenyra, none of these bastards problems would occur.
Understand that Daemon never really wanted the throne. It was so obvious in Episode 1. But Viserys kept pushing Daemon away when all Daemon wanted to do was PROTECT HIS FAMILY. Otto manipulated to have Viserys and Daemon be separated and be against each other. This was Daemon's first time in King's Landing in 16 years
I think both finally saw what they did was wrong. Daemon assumed Viserys was weak when Viserys became the strongest at his weakest. For causing chaos when Viserys always tried to protect him. Viserys was wrong for pushing Daemon away. But in the end, Viserys finally saw his brother really did love him and only wanted to protect him just like he did for him in the council.
The love between brothers was never gone. Only fitting that it was Daemon to help Viserys walk up and sit on the Iron Throne one final time to help Rhaenyra. It was Daemon to crown Viserys one final time. The scene is one of the most iconic scenes you will ever see in this GOT-verse TV lore. A scene that makes you stand up and cheer wiping tears in your eyes.
Its just so good to listen to aomeone who understands the source material well go into more detail into a thing you love. Theres just no better content.
I think the time jumps haven't confused me much but are def needed to give the story weight in those future moments without a slog in the present.
You got the photos for Aegon and Viserys (babies) mixed up in the family tree
In America, Thanksgiving is that time of year when all the members of a family converge from all over the country to the ancestral family home all for the purpose of reminding themselves why they scattered in the first place.
Thanksgiving in the US (Midwest at least) is either exactly how you described it or someone gets hurt playing backyard football
As an American, yes. My family Thanksgivings are a lot like a Targaryen dinner😅
So excited for the dance to begin (que the reign of Castimere Song)
This episode was great. The thing I was thinking the whole time while watching the dinner scene was what you had said about parents pulling their children into their conflict. And because it's been going for over 6 years, now they are unable to stop the seeds of hate they had planted in their kids from growing. I didn't read the books but when I see this, it appears that raising their kids like this will blow straight into their faces and they will be forced to fight each other for fear of their kids' safety.
The other tragic thing I see is how both Rynera and Alicent are willing to give up the throne. Neither of them is happy with having and keeping power but they might start fighting not for the power itself but rather for fear of what the other side might do if they are powerfull enough.
This is brilliant because it would be easy for scriptwriters to be like "Rynera good, Alicent bad" but (just like you) I care for both sides and I don't want to be team Rynera of team Alicent. That brings so much emotional depth int the story that is rarely seen in popculture. In 2016 I was counting for such situation with Steve and Iron Man but there it just fell flat. That is why I am really worried if HotD will manage to keep the story going like that but for now they really are making a great job and the show is a 9/10 for me.
I will actually miss the time jumps. Is there stuff that they skipped that I would have liked to see? Yes. Is there stuff I needed to see that they skipped? No. I love being thrown into a new situation and having to figure out how the characters have changed from their glances and subtle changes in how they talk to each other and stuff. It's just so engaging for me. Personally, the episodes that didn't really have a big time jump (2 and 7) even though they contained some awesome moments and were very solid episodes, lacked something for me. The extra kick of the time jump was always welcomed by me.
Yes, Thanksgiving is like that for me except it's my brother and I are each other's throats
I'm from the US, and Thanksgiving... CAN be that way. I lucked into a... mostly good family (quiet estrangment of my cousin after she transitioned by the parents of the family) so thanksgiving isn't so much that way, but it is that way for a lot of people.
The showrunners could introduce Vaemunds "son(s)" in season two by explaining they were off doing things in Essos while Vaemund tried to be named as Corly's successor. Mayhaps they choose to "avenge" their father and fight for the greens.