Me and some friends used to play SA2B a loooot as teens. One night while playin' the multiplayer I jumped off the edge while grinding a rail at the start. Then shouted "BATMAN" for some reason. Probably sleep deprivation. I feel for a while but ended up landed on a rail near the end, and won. From that moment on we'd try and find spots to cut out parts of the level during multiplayer, speedrun style. And called it Batmaning haha.
I can unfortunately confirm that jumping off the rails is usually SLOWER! I tried this maneuver a lot as a kid with my brother, on Pumpkin Hill and Crazy Gadget rail racing. There are several spots you can just fall and still land on rails, but if the other player just holds B while grinding they'll always catch up to you before you land.
@@Atylonisus Aye if we pulled it off while trying to race it usually looked like it was faster but most of the time it wasn't. When it worked and you got the win after though it felt pretty great. By that point years after the game released I think we were just pumped to find a different way to play haha. Went from "Who can win the race" to "Who can pull off the longest Batman".
I suppose it depends how far out in to space the stage is set. I figure most would mean atmosphere as "breathable" which was the implied meaning of my joke. I'm not sure the boundaries of the stratosphere and troposphere and such. I understand they're quite far out of this world though
The more I watch Sonic Adventure 1/2 retrospectives, the more it feels like I was the only person who actually liked the shooting and Treasure Hunting stages.
they were really solid levels, specially in 2 imo, its just that its obvius the majority of exploration and replayability comes from the running stages, but i myself love revisiting all levels with powerups just to discover new shie
Yeah, definitely one of the more archaic feeling parts of the game. It works, but having functions "compete" like that also results in a lot of headaches, like with the light speed dash vs bounce attack I think moving to a "three button" system for SA2 would have been a good compromise. Spindashing and similar "default" things can still be mapped to X/B, but Y button would be where functions that cant possibly overlap with one another could live. For example, Mystic Melody and Light Speed Dash are triggered by environment context, meaning there is almoat zero risk of the player doing one when they meant the other
This is an urban legend most likely stemming from GC release of Sonic Adventure. I completed SADX for PC (yes I know that it was based on GC port) and played a fair amout of SA2 on Dreamcast. I think I fell through the floor like once, as Amy, on the Egg Carrier.
This is the best breakdown I've seen on what makes Sonic Adventure 2 feel like nothing else, a high bar considering just how many videos this game has about it. Outstanding work.
My personal example is the smash series. Smash Ultimate is a nice game but competitively, it just feels very sterile. Everything is so streamlined that I feel I can't go outside the dev's intended box when it comes to player expression.
@@heldon7951 also that sounds like a staple of the gamecube era, games were kind of wank, but that made them great in a weird way. Mario Sunshine, Smash Melee, Adventure 2
The score aspect has been almost forgotten. I see that many people don’t worry about the score, just the speed. It a shame. I love getting a big score doing things other than getting to the goal as fast as possible. Frontiers didn’t have a score system, and Shadow Generations’ score is based on time anyway.
Maybe if the score wasn't useless, people would care about it. Rayman 3 is one of the very few games where I took the scoring system seriously because it unlocks minigames.
I'm 25 turning 26 soon and a big Sonic fan though out of all the games SA2 is the one I return to the most after 20 something years for pretty much the reasons you put here. Glad to see a kindred spirit and very glad to see a topic on SA2 I haven't really seen discussed before. Got a like and a sub from me dude. Stay safe and have a good day!
I really really agree with what you said about Sonic-inspired games and the wide-open environments in them. They're fun to run through and launch yourself around, but nothing ever could quite compare to the tight, focused design of the Adventure games that force you to microadjust every movement and think on the fly. They don't forget that they're platformers and aren't afraid to have small, unique challenges you can only find in a platforming game. I really hope to find another game one day that captures the same kind of feel. (The thumbnail with the half-tone magazine look is sick btw!)
heroes has some of the coolest uses of the lightspeed dash imo. Also I was today years old when i learned that holding the jump button makes the homing attack popup higher
Glad to see more positive videos on SA2 these days! Felt like people were really down on the game for a while. This is my favorite Sonic game and I've really enjoyed the time spent with it. Raising the chao was a fun side game and I have so many memories of playing this game with friends! The adventure games do have a charm to them that modern 3D sonic doesn't quite get.
Btw, the treasure hunting and shooting gallery stages are designed as score attacks as well, by finding treasure quickly with few hints and locking on to as high as 11 enemies at once and getting high combo points while finishing the stage quickly. All stage types are essentially score attacks though you probably knew this. Just saying since you seemed to think less of them. Treating them as score attacks and going for the A ranks is how I found the most fun in them. They all share the same design philosophy in learning the level layout, treasure locations, enemy spawns, (including golden beetles), not dying, and replaying to get better. Shame most don’t realise this and they don’t try to play optimally, which leads people to suck at stages and dislike them without properly trying, though I know they’re not flawless by any stretch.
@@dashi-musashi351 Nah I totally get it but they just don't feel as well paced and thought out as the speed levels were, not a hater of the other levels at all or anything , thanks for commenting!
I came back to SA2 as an adult and it has been the greatest experience I’ve had playing a game. I got addicted to score attacks and especially score attacking final rush. I’ve gotten to 27000 points after spending who knows how long learning the level lol
Best Sonic game ever. I just wish they had a bit of more resources and enrich the game with more stuff, like the hub worlds from the original SA. Basically, when your only complain for the game is "I want more", it's probably a very good game.
While I also want hub worlds for this game (ESPECIALLY the ARK) I can understand why they didn't do it, this game's map is way to big, the city alone would probably be the size of station square, the mystic ruins and the egg carrier combined. It would be hard to traverse the large city, the isolated Prison Island and it's forest, the canyons, the desert and especially the ARK which just like the city would probably be way bigger than all the SA1 hub worlds combined.
I grew up with the Gamecube, so when I later went back and played the Dreamcast version, I was surprised just how many things were better there. Inparticular, the Hero and Dark chao gardens are way better there. Why did we have to lose that?!? The only reason I can think for the change, was maybe it was too hard to find chao in those complex gardens? (And also stopping players from drowning Tails, lol)
@@Protofall wait, were the gardens bigger in Dreamcast version than in PC version? I'm on PC now and the hero garden here is pretty minimal. I don't even see the reason in moving my chao there, aside from the more nutritious palm fruits.
SA2 is my favorite 3d Sonic game for a lot of reasons. The speed stages in SA2 are just incredible. Every stage in that game is fun, the only one that can be kind of annoying is Crazy Gadget. The ranking system in SA2 is so good and I wish other Sonic games had a ranking system like that.
Incredibly well done video! Not only was the editing and gameplay on point, but everything about player expression and movement in SA2 were my thoughts exactly! Even when it came to implementing more movement options akin to THPS to make moving around in these tightly knit levels even better. Instant sub. : )
Sonic Adventure 2 rails felt like the natural continuation of the Genesis game rolling physics: you can't build up speed on your own anymore, but you can STORE speed much better on rails, thus allowing you to reach areas you never could otherwise
I always love it when I find a video essay that perfectly encapsulates how I feel on a given subject. You distilled everything I love about Sonic/Shadow's gameplay in SA2 perfectly into words in a way I just couldn't when arguing with people about it in the past.
Give Penny's Big Breakaway a try. It has a lot of skill expression, tight level design that still allows for large skips with enough player skill to build up the speed, and do the jumps correctly to make it long distances, while still making level design something you need to consider at all times while playing.
This whole time, I was hoping he would make a special mention to Penny's, because it is the only Sonic-inspired game that has given me a similar experience to the Adventure games. Such a wonderful time.
Penny is a broadly similar type of game, but it seems like he's looking for something more like a straight clone of SA2. While obviously Sonic Team-inspired, Penny is really it's own thing and I feel like it's mechanically more reminiscent of Billy Hatcher if anything.
Penny's is too disimilar to the adventure games. Totally different art style and vibe. There's no set pieces and there's a lot less speed. What he wanted was an SA2 clone, and tbh so do I.
i had a hard time describing in words just why i never really fully got into alot of 3D sonic fan games that claimed it was adventure-inspired but this video really captures what I really wanted sonic games to feel like! Awesome video dude!
Spark the Electric Jester 2 & 3 did the Sonic Adventure 2 formula really well. Though I can understand why some might not like it as both titles veer closer to Heroes/Shadow style gameplay by the midway point. Not sure if you disliked Spark, but do give it a second chance as there's a lot to like about those two games.
I also am someone who enjoys Sonic games, but keeps coming back to SA2. There really is so much depth to the mechanics of this game (even if some of it was likely not developer intended). Some of my love is definitely nostalgia as I played the game on release on the first console I owned, the Dreamcast. Even as an adult though, the game still provides me so much joy as I learn more about the game each time I play. The game being endlessly replayable is part of the reason a friend and I created an SA2 randomizer a few years ago. We wanted more reasons to play the game, and a way to play together apart from the built-in 2P stages. We also really wanted to highlight parts of the game that are often ignored since they aren’t essential. Your video did a good job describing many of the aspects of SA2 that we think make it also fun to randomize. Thanks for this great video describing one of the gems from my childhood which I continue to love to this day.
As someone who only has played bits and pieces of SA2, I was completely unaware that the game had this much depth. I really like when levels have multiple paths aimed at different skill levels.
Stage-skipping... one player skipped one stage by only one jump from the start and I was left to wonder asking... "where is the fun in that...? Why would someone skip a level if they love to play it...???"
Because it takes an understanding and comfortability with the level that can only come after hours and hours of experiencing it in full without skipping it. Ideally, anyways. Its like finding a shortcut in mario kart, they're always a little hidden and can be tricky to pull off, so skipping it is an engaging feedback loop in and of itself
SA2 actually kinda has action chains already, just very obfuscated (like everything else). Off top of my head, in White Jungle, if you make it from the start of the stage to the first checkpoint without doing any jumps or somersaults unless they aim at a spring, enemy or are used to duck under a wooden obstacle, you get awarded with trick points when you make it the checkpoint. Cool, Radical, Tight or Awesome depending on how far you made it with those restraints until the checkpoint- acting like a combo of small sections where you alternate between not jumping and jumping once and doing large lengths without touching the ground. This is actually really hard to pull off in the Hard mode version of the stage. Iirc, you also do get more points for balancing properly in the grinding rails- at the end of City Escape, on the triple rail, you get anywhere from 600 to 1500 points (Radical to Extreme) based on how quickly you grinded down the rails. I completely agree with your conclusion about more focus on tricks/action combos and less on speed/huge levels. I think making the stages progressively faster and larger is a "dead end" in terms of gameplay- speed leads to boost auto-play (since it's almost impossible to control something so fast) and large levels always end up empty. The trick system is the solution, in which it allows for player agency, precise and quick reactions (which emulate speed quite well) while also looking stylish.
Sonic Adventure 2 is probably my second most played childhood game, (first being Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky) oh my god I still love this game and the adventure gameplay and replayed it a bunch on Steam too haha It is really is a shame a lot of people write off Sonic instantly these days cause of a few bad games and never giving these a chance :( But I must say you 100% nailed why it is so replayable and I beg of you to try The Big Catch: Tacklebox, been playing that on and off and it is probably the most replayable platformer I have played since SA2.
SA2 controls need fixing, the grinding is amazing on the Dreamcast, but because the controller evolved on newer consoles, but SA2s didn't update the controls, the risk reward for grinding is a lot better on the Dreamcast, people should look this up, it's amazing how people can zip on rails because of the balancing mechanics
@@thecamobot from what I know, modders haven't fixed this, but someone on RUclips has made a tutorial on how to make it closer, using Steam's controller layout
@@thecamobot I just played the mod @sbboard1 talked about, it might have fixed one of your complaints, the flying off the rail, I might have just been lucky, but it did improve the movement by a lot
Normally, I don't leave comments but I really needed to this time. This was an absolutely incredible video! You took my exact thoughts and put them out in a way that makes sense to those who've never played these games before. The magic of the Adventure formula truly cannot be understated and I do wish SEGA would try it again. I'm glad you were able to make such a great video on this topic, because I've been trying for quite some time now and couldn't get the right words for it. I look forward to more content from you :)
Excellent video! As much fun as it is to blaze through the stages at high speed, it is equally fun to fully explore them at a slower pace and discover all the secrets. More Sonic-inspired indie games should focus on that too!
liked and subscribed because you covered a topic that peturbs me so much, the thing that i love about the older sonic games, and you covered this perfectly, was that alot of their levels feel narrow and offer many diffrent routes for you to explore, i want to add on that by saying that the levels also gave a feeling of clustrophobia, and i fucking love that, everything just felt so close together and when you compare that to fan games or newer sonic games they just dont have that same feel, everythings more open worlded like you mentioned, and i wish we got a new sonic game or fan game hat realized this and captured that feeling so i can experience that greatness again, great video, loved this
You hit the nail on the head about indie titles trying to emulate 3D Sonic focusing too much on big open space and a lot of speed. It really takes the challenge out of the gameplay and honestly makes it difficult to create interesting levels in my opinion. I'm glad that Frontiers recognized this and still gave us smaller levels to platform through in between exploring the islands. Looks like we're on track for that in Shadow Generations too
I really appreciate this love letter to my favourite game childhood game. I am pretty much completely in agreement with what I want from the series/spiritual successors, other than me quite strongly wishing for a new Chao Garden. Thanks for taking the time to nostalgia bomb me today, my "Perfect!" tattoo is practically glowing :)
Great video! SA2 will always be my favorite Sonic game. You did a great job explaining and the gameplay was top notch especially that long jump in final rush
I believe that the Adventure games were the first Sonic games that I ever played. I played SA1 more in my childhood because SA2 was too difficult for my childhood self, though in 2022 I learned that as an adult I can get through all 3 stories of that game, causing me to enjoy it a lot. I've been trying to get my own gaming PC this year and downloading Project-06 into it is one of the main things that I've already been 100% convinced to try to do after I get that PC. I've been trying to get help from people who I know have more knowledge about PCs than I do about how to find the right PC for myself.
Excellent video! I grew up playing SA2 as one of my first video games ever and as an adult now I still revisit it. Even watching this video, I’m seeing things and routes I never thought of!
I wish they would give Shadow his run animation SA 2 back in all other games! Totally goated and it made you FEEL the speed of using him versus him slowly "skating" or gliding now.
Great video, my man. I do believe we can have a Sonic Game where it can be an even mix of Adventure, Boost, and Frontier type of gameplay. Or at the very least a game that allow us to have both the boost and the spin dash. Without nerfing one or making one overpowered. In fact I even got an idea. It’s simple we just got to have it where you need to use both options to reach high speeds. It would go like this. First you have the boost. It gives Sonic a quick burst of speed. Now it CAN take down enemies. BUT. Only small/weak/one hp/level 1 enemies, obstacles like shields, and energy barriers. Then second, we have the spin dash. You hold it down and charge it up. Finally releasing it and you zoom off. Now it doesn’t gives you as much speed as a regular boost but it can take down slightly stronger enemies. Or let say level 2 enemies and obstacles. Now let’s see what happens when you combine them. First you hold down the spin dash button, then whiling charging the spin dash up, you press the boost button. Suddenly you spin dash change and has an extra effect/aura layer ontop of it. Finally you let it go and you zoom off. THAT. Is how you get to your max speed. Plus while in it you can run through a lot of enemies and obstacles. As long as you maintained it. You can also try this in the reverse order. Say that you are boosting but while boosting you pressed the spin dash button causing Sonic to roll into a spike ball. Boom! You enter into the same state once again. All you have to do is maintain that by not getting stopped or running into indestructible objects. Perfect 👍. This could work with multiple playable characters too.
I've heard the argument that in the classic games Sonic is a pinball, and in the modern games Sonic is a car. I think in the Adventure games he was a skateboard.
And the thing is that most people focus only on the physics of the character, when it is also important for a level design to have more things than just a straight line to run.
How I can tell I've put a lot of hours into SA2: Hearing *Let's Make it!* Getting looped repeatedly before the climax of the theme was driving me nuts lmao.
Growing up with Boost gameplay (UnWiished & Colors), I remember playing Adventure 2 for the first time and thinking "wow, I get it. I get why people like this style". You made me appreciate this formula in a new way.
I think you really brought up some great points with the trick systems. Every time I play SA2 now, I'm always thinking about getting a high score, and I think building upon that idea further would be amazing. Tony hawk pro skater meets SA2? I would EAT that up.
i think a big reason why indie projects don't feel as good as sonic is because they're very resistant to take control from the player, but sometimes the player needs the control taken from them for spectacle. Loop de loops in indie titles, when they leave you in control, feel TERRIBLE, but sonic has always done them right by locking the player on a track for them in every 3d game. That combined with the spaces being too open make them feel very empty and oftentimes monotonously boring.
as such, id really only recommend penny's big breakaway for anything similar to what SA2 could offer. It's not as blisteringly fast, but the level design and fluid movement definitely is closer.
Despite SA2 being my first console game ever, and one of the games I racked up the most hours in, I really appreciate the honesty of the "SA2 that exists" segment, because, when I was playing all the time as a kid, despite loving it then and still loving it now, there was still a lot of jank I remember screwing young me over more than helping. I remember getting so frustrated trying to switch rails in SA2 and Heroes, only to go flying into the abyss about 20% of the time. When the boost games had slower, largely automated rail switching that worked consistently, I remember welcoming it wholeheartedly. Still, I can't help feeling the loss of complexity had a negative impact. Coming back to it as an adult, with a little more patience makes the intricacies of grinding more apparent, and I find myself wishing there were a way to keep that without giving up consistency.
I honestly feel like the only "replayable" aspects of Adventure 2 are the Sonic and Shadow levels. Those levels are bar none the best in the entire game with fast-paced gameplay, cool level quirks and cinematic moments. The Tails and Robotnik stages are honestly just kinda there and the Knuckles and Rouge stages are a chore to get through. I can only see someone replaying the Tails/Robotnik and Knuckles/Rouge stages for the sake of experiencing childhood nostalgia, making the replay-ability factor of them artificial.
I think the other stages have a few winners. Meteor Herd is fun to explore the underside of the ARK, Cosmic Wall is a lot of fun, and Iron Gate makes Robotnik feel like a powerful villain.
I actually had this game back when I had a Dreamcast. I didn’t know much about all these alternate routes. I just played the game just to get through the levels and never explored much, which is probably why it was a bit more of a linear experience for me. I never played for the “ranks” either as the game didn’t teach me to care about it. I found out later there was an unlockable Green Hill zone or something, but I never really had the regret about missing it.
You know, probably don't need to say this, but I really think Pizza Tower envisions this idea really well, and to be frank, that idea in general is just good racing game design. It's all about the tightness of your lines, the comfort you acquire with the controls, the routing of the stages, just topped onto with good arcade platforming. Score, skips, combos, everything is kept in line with an idea of what makes good arcade racers so fun but sprinkled on with that kind of complexity you can only get from a character who can jump and grind rails and such. I also really do appreciate the looking at sa2 through the lens of skate games, skate games also imbibe that perfect arcadey goodness that makes you really understand your actions and your pathing to maximize your gameplay, and I think that's definitely a missing component from a lot of sonic inspired games.
I love the adventure era games, usually they have multiple characters but in the exception of Shadow the Hedgehog at least there's multiple play styles with the different vehicles and weapons. Sonic Adventure 2 is my favorite game of all time and it's for many of the reasons that you listed about replay value getting better at the game the point system tricks you know all the different mechanics. And I also love the Tony Hawk series I often talk about these two games together and the way you can kind of link your moves and get points and go fast. I also throw in Sly Cooper because while that's not necessarily fast you have a lot of movement options like sliding on Rails climbing and when you get good at linking those together you can move faster.
I always loved jumping out of a somersault because of the different jump animation. Not sure if it ever gave points, but it's certainly a style thing that made Sonic Adventure 2 great. I want to make an indie game like SA2 at some point and have been watching these retrospectives to get a better understanding of why the level design was so good.
Sonic Adventure 2 is definitely my favorite Sonic game. Not even just the speed levels, if you get that “I have to go and i have to do it now” mentality out of your head, the treasure hunting levels are just really chill areas to hang out in and search for the emeralds at your leisure (or as fast as you can if you know where they can spawn), and the mech stages are really fun to just destroy as much as you can in your path. And then of course the speed stages are just the cherry on top. Not perfect of course, but god does it feel good. Once you get a good flow where you just don’t stop, perfection.
Fun and amazing level design that rewards exploration, incredible music that I still listen to today in the car. I used to wake up and grind this game for hours just trying to get my Choas stronger than the rest of my friends lol
I agree with pretty much everything you said. Specifically, I agree that the trick system was incredibly rewarding, and the ratings in modern games don't reinforce the same kind of replayability with high scores given too easily.
the point about tightly knit very specifically designed levels in contrast extremely open areas is something I can't help but nod in agreement with. Lots of fangames and spiritual sequels push for exhilarating speed and that has its merits but so much freedom of movement means you aren't pushing for "faster. Faster! do it Better!"
I’ve felt this way my whole life. I remember when Heroes came out and while I was excited because I was a Sonic fanboy, I could definitely tell something was missing. It makes me wonder what Sonic could have been if Sonic 06 went well. It’s clear that Sega just keeps doing what works and because Unleashed absolutely crushed it along with Generations, they just keep pushing out the same boost formula that’s been relevant for over 15 years now. It’s been so long now that Sonic has a new identity crisis. Even if they made a decent Adventure game all the new gen Sonic players would probably hate on it and Sega would shy away from the formula again :(
IMO there is yet a Indie game that nail what I love about SA2, thats why I've taken it apon myself, and I think you nailed a lot of the things I love about SA2
The adventure style is where my heart was, my introduction of playing Sonic endlessly on my older cousin's Dreamcast as I played a Sonic Adventure demo disk, endlessly replaying Emerald Coast with my younger cousin was a vibe. Then comes my shock when I got my Game Cube and reliving that same experience on my own with DX. That's not even to mention my experience with SA2 Battle, back when I rented the game (Really struggled with the G.U.N Truck and the first boss) Remembered playing City Escape back to back and raising Chao that alone supported my enjoyment untill I got the game myself and my mind was blown. As for Heroes I wouldn't consider it an 'Adventure' game, least from a mechanics stand point, it's like, calling Lost World a Boost game even if it appeared two games after Unleashed kicking off the boost Era, like how SA1 did with Adventure. Like they are in the respective adventure and boost eras, but Sega just took a hard pivot for some reason before returning to form in both cases. Shadow The Hedgehog is more mechanically aligned with the adventure game play but with the Heroes aesthetic. Sonic The Hedgehog (06), never played the original but I enjoy what P-06 has done. If that was any indication of what 06 could of potentially been mechanically, it would be insane.
I love SA2 to bits, but I do agree that I tend to play as 2/6 characters 95% of the time. But there is a time I do enjoy playing one of those 4, Eggman in Cosmic Wall. You combined low gravity with tonnes of targets and it becomes a power trip!
I 100% agree with your thoughts on Spark The Electric Jester and Rollin' Rascal here. I love Spark and I've played the hell out of the Rascal demo. But I do notice that a lot of these stages are lacking a real identity like Sonic levels tend to have.
Sonic Adventure 2 Battle was so fun and the Chao Garden had a reason for me to keep playing, so I S ranked everything in the game back when I was a kid. No other game has pulled me in that strongly.
I wish this style would come back (along with tails and knuckles having linear 3d levels as well like SRB2) while the boost formula could be used to revive the storybook games. That way, we could have the adventure formula for mainline games while using the boost formula for the storybook games.
This is an insanely well made and thought out explanation of what makes Sonic Adventure 2 an amazing game to replay, and just a fantastic game in general. Very well done, great video! Watching this at 7k views, I really hope this ends up getting way more, it deserves it.
Awesome video, congratulations! It's great to have an in-depth analysis of the Adventure gameplay, specifically SA2. It would be great if you did reviews of the entire game or other 3D games in the franchise, like Unleashed HD. Hugs from Brazil!
As I child, I remembered sonic heroes as an incredible game with a lot of cool characters. Ten years later I replayed it and I understand why people say it feels unpolished. Anyway SA2 is the best sonic game imo, it is iconic and has so much replayability.
Over the years I've replayed Heroes more than SA2 just because all of its stages are in the "speed" style, so there's just more to play. But there's a lot I love about SA2 and its physics. Also I think City Escape is a must-play stage. Like, for all gamers.
good video, the adventure style will always be the king to me, and in SA2 u dont get trick points when you land on a rail u only get them when u land on the ground for some weird ass reason.
As someone who completed SA2 on Dreamcast back in the day and mastered every level I agree. I don’t necessarily enjoy the big open worlds or the boost style gameplay as much. I loved how tight and difficult some levels felt on SA2 because you COULD go fast asf but it took skill and understanding of the level design. Once you mastered a level the game would feel so rewarding. It was the last truly COOL sonic game in my opinion. I did enjoy Sonic Heroes though.
Adding to the possible combo system, they could easily have the P rank from Pizza Tower, specifically the part where you must keep one combo going through the whole level that would be a fun challenge.
Using speed loss/speed gain values, and enemies that can boost or lower your speed If you do certain things or be damage by then to account more frequently in the gameplay would bring lots of speedrun strats
Me and some friends used to play SA2B a loooot as teens. One night while playin' the multiplayer I jumped off the edge while grinding a rail at the start. Then shouted "BATMAN" for some reason. Probably sleep deprivation. I feel for a while but ended up landed on a rail near the end, and won. From that moment on we'd try and find spots to cut out parts of the level during multiplayer, speedrun style. And called it Batmaning haha.
I can unfortunately confirm that jumping off the rails is usually SLOWER!
I tried this maneuver a lot as a kid with my brother, on Pumpkin Hill and Crazy Gadget rail racing. There are several spots you can just fall and still land on rails, but if the other player just holds B while grinding they'll always catch up to you before you land.
I'm glad u wrote this comment.
These are the precious times we had with our buddies playing video games at each other's house.
@@Atylonisus Aye if we pulled it off while trying to race it usually looked like it was faster but most of the time it wasn't. When it worked and you got the win after though it felt pretty great. By that point years after the game released I think we were just pumped to find a different way to play haha. Went from "Who can win the race" to "Who can pull off the longest Batman".
Yoooo that's a golden memory right there! Make sure you hold that memory in your heart forever
That's hilarious
"Final Rush has great atmosphere"
But it's in space? X)
So... stratosphere?
I suppose it depends how far out in to space the stage is set. I figure most would mean atmosphere as "breathable" which was the implied meaning of my joke. I'm not sure the boundaries of the stratosphere and troposphere and such. I understand they're quite far out of this world though
@@danielschott4639more like the exosphere
Lol
check again, he's 'burning in the atmosphere' x3
The more I watch Sonic Adventure 1/2 retrospectives, the more it feels like I was the only person who actually liked the shooting and Treasure Hunting stages.
I liked the eggman ones in SA2
finally... someone else who appreciates treasure hunt
they were really solid levels, specially in 2 imo, its just that its obvius the majority of exploration and replayability comes from the running stages, but i myself love revisiting all levels with powerups just to discover new shie
I'm with you. I a ranked the whole game, not just the speed stages
I think there were handled perfectly in 06 as little pace breakers in between levels rather than dedicated levels.
"Where A jumps and B does everything else" really got a chuckle out of me
Yeah, definitely one of the more archaic feeling parts of the game. It works, but having functions "compete" like that also results in a lot of headaches, like with the light speed dash vs bounce attack
I think moving to a "three button" system for SA2 would have been a good compromise. Spindashing and similar "default" things can still be mapped to X/B, but Y button would be where functions that cant possibly overlap with one another could live. For example, Mystic Melody and Light Speed Dash are triggered by environment context, meaning there is almoat zero risk of the player doing one when they meant the other
it's just not a sonic game without the constant thought in the back of your mind that you may well fall through a solid object
Mid joke.
This is an urban legend most likely stemming from GC release of Sonic Adventure. I completed SADX for PC (yes I know that it was based on GC port) and played a fair amout of SA2 on Dreamcast. I think I fell through the floor like once, as Amy, on the Egg Carrier.
Or that the game you're playing isn't very good
Skill issue
That has gotta be the dopest thumbnail I've ever seen.
This is the best breakdown I've seen on what makes Sonic Adventure 2 feel like nothing else, a high bar considering just how many videos this game has about it. Outstanding work.
Good points about the jank. Sometimes when games are made too well, they lose a lot of player creativity and soul
No, it really doesn’t. Don’t encourage objectively bad game design.
@@littlemoth4956 Nah nah he ain't wrong, it's rlly a coin flip, but i doubt you'll find anyone who tells you superbouncing isn't fun for exemple
I think Mario Kart 8 is a good example of this.
My personal example is the smash series. Smash Ultimate is a nice game but competitively, it just feels very sterile. Everything is so streamlined that I feel I can't go outside the dev's intended box when it comes to player expression.
@@heldon7951 also that sounds like a staple of the gamecube era, games were kind of wank, but that made them great in a weird way. Mario Sunshine, Smash Melee, Adventure 2
The score aspect has been almost forgotten.
I see that many people don’t worry about the score, just the speed.
It a shame. I love getting a big score doing things other than getting to the goal as fast as possible.
Frontiers didn’t have a score system, and Shadow Generations’ score is based on time anyway.
Maybe if the score wasn't useless, people would care about it. Rayman 3 is one of the very few games where I took the scoring system seriously because it unlocks minigames.
@@artey6671 score is how you get A ranks, and A ranks are how you get Green Hill Zone
@@spindash64 My bad, I forgot about that.
I'm 25 turning 26 soon and a big Sonic fan though out of all the games SA2 is the one I return to the most after 20 something years for pretty much the reasons you put here. Glad to see a kindred spirit and very glad to see a topic on SA2 I haven't really seen discussed before. Got a like and a sub from me dude. Stay safe and have a good day!
@@SneakyFoxHound thanks for the sub🙂
I really really agree with what you said about Sonic-inspired games and the wide-open environments in them. They're fun to run through and launch yourself around, but nothing ever could quite compare to the tight, focused design of the Adventure games that force you to microadjust every movement and think on the fly. They don't forget that they're platformers and aren't afraid to have small, unique challenges you can only find in a platforming game. I really hope to find another game one day that captures the same kind of feel.
(The thumbnail with the half-tone magazine look is sick btw!)
They also don't have any good setpieces. Would speed highway be as memorable if you didn't have the sky scraper run? No.
heroes has some of the coolest uses of the lightspeed dash imo. Also I was today years old when i learned that holding the jump button makes the homing attack popup higher
Wait til you find out that hanging from a ledge without climbing onto it and then pressing A will make you flip onto the ledge instead
@@ChaosHillZone i did not know that. thanks
Glad to see more positive videos on SA2 these days! Felt like people were really down on the game for a while. This is my favorite Sonic game and I've really enjoyed the time spent with it. Raising the chao was a fun side game and I have so many memories of playing this game with friends! The adventure games do have a charm to them that modern 3D sonic doesn't quite get.
Btw, the treasure hunting and shooting gallery stages are designed as score attacks as well, by finding treasure quickly with few hints and locking on to as high as 11 enemies at once and getting high combo points while finishing the stage quickly. All stage types are essentially score attacks though you probably knew this. Just saying since you seemed to think less of them. Treating them as score attacks and going for the A ranks is how I found the most fun in them. They all share the same design philosophy in learning the level layout, treasure locations, enemy spawns, (including golden beetles), not dying, and replaying to get better. Shame most don’t realise this and they don’t try to play optimally, which leads people to suck at stages and dislike them without properly trying, though I know they’re not flawless by any stretch.
@@dashi-musashi351 Nah I totally get it but they just don't feel as well paced and thought out as the speed levels were, not a hater of the other levels at all or anything , thanks for commenting!
I came back to SA2 as an adult and it has been the greatest experience I’ve had playing a game. I got addicted to score attacks and especially score attacking final rush. I’ve gotten to 27000 points after spending who knows how long learning the level lol
It has the best version of shadow too.
Best Sonic game ever. I just wish they had a bit of more resources and enrich the game with more stuff, like the hub worlds from the original SA. Basically, when your only complain for the game is "I want more", it's probably a very good game.
Totally agree with that sentiment
While I also want hub worlds for this game (ESPECIALLY the ARK) I can understand why they didn't do it, this game's map is way to big, the city alone would probably be the size of station square, the mystic ruins and the egg carrier combined. It would be hard to traverse the large city, the isolated Prison Island and it's forest, the canyons, the desert and especially the ARK which just like the city would probably be way bigger than all the SA1 hub worlds combined.
Need a sonic adventure battle 3 or at least a remake. They would probably screw up though, that kind of game just doesn't exist anymore.
I grew up with the Gamecube, so when I later went back and played the Dreamcast version, I was surprised just how many things were better there. Inparticular, the Hero and Dark chao gardens are way better there. Why did we have to lose that?!?
The only reason I can think for the change, was maybe it was too hard to find chao in those complex gardens? (And also stopping players from drowning Tails, lol)
@@Protofall wait, were the gardens bigger in Dreamcast version than in PC version? I'm on PC now and the hero garden here is pretty minimal. I don't even see the reason in moving my chao there, aside from the more nutritious palm fruits.
SA2 is my favorite 3d Sonic game for a lot of reasons. The speed stages in SA2 are just incredible. Every stage in that game is fun, the only one that can be kind of annoying is Crazy Gadget. The ranking system in SA2 is so good and I wish other Sonic games had a ranking system like that.
I love every speed stage in SA2, yes even final chase and crazy gadget.
Nooo 😭 I love crazy gadget, this stage is hella good, it's been one of my favorites since I mastered it
That's a really good looking thumbnail with style and flair
Same thought here!
Incredibly well done video! Not only was the editing and gameplay on point, but everything about player expression and movement in SA2 were my thoughts exactly! Even when it came to implementing more movement options akin to THPS to make moving around in these tightly knit levels even better.
Instant sub. : )
@@NauticalNoey thanks for the sub and comment!
Sonic Adventure 2 rails felt like the natural continuation of the Genesis game rolling physics: you can't build up speed on your own anymore, but you can STORE speed much better on rails, thus allowing you to reach areas you never could otherwise
I always love it when I find a video essay that perfectly encapsulates how I feel on a given subject.
You distilled everything I love about Sonic/Shadow's gameplay in SA2 perfectly into words in a way I just couldn't when arguing with people about it in the past.
Just wanted to say, this is a superbly edited video!
Give Penny's Big Breakaway a try. It has a lot of skill expression, tight level design that still allows for large skips with enough player skill to build up the speed, and do the jumps correctly to make it long distances, while still making level design something you need to consider at all times while playing.
This whole time, I was hoping he would make a special mention to Penny's, because it is the only Sonic-inspired game that has given me a similar experience to the Adventure games. Such a wonderful time.
Penny is a broadly similar type of game, but it seems like he's looking for something more like a straight clone of SA2. While obviously Sonic Team-inspired, Penny is really it's own thing and I feel like it's mechanically more reminiscent of Billy Hatcher if anything.
Penny's is too disimilar to the adventure games. Totally different art style and vibe. There's no set pieces and there's a lot less speed.
What he wanted was an SA2 clone, and tbh so do I.
i had a hard time describing in words just why i never really fully got into alot of 3D sonic fan games that claimed it was adventure-inspired but this video really captures what I really wanted sonic games to feel like! Awesome video dude!
Spark the Electric Jester 2 & 3 did the Sonic Adventure 2 formula really well. Though I can understand why some might not like it as both titles veer closer to Heroes/Shadow style gameplay by the midway point. Not sure if you disliked Spark, but do give it a second chance as there's a lot to like about those two games.
I think the bit of spark I played was fun! I just felt it wasn't recreating the specific things I liked if that makes sense, thanks for the comment!
Ehh Spark is alright I guess
Ohhh I wanna play now!
I don’t play Indie games
@@kingstarscream320 fair enough
I also am someone who enjoys Sonic games, but keeps coming back to SA2. There really is so much depth to the mechanics of this game (even if some of it was likely not developer intended). Some of my love is definitely nostalgia as I played the game on release on the first console I owned, the Dreamcast. Even as an adult though, the game still provides me so much joy as I learn more about the game each time I play. The game being endlessly replayable is part of the reason a friend and I created an SA2 randomizer a few years ago. We wanted more reasons to play the game, and a way to play together apart from the built-in 2P stages. We also really wanted to highlight parts of the game that are often ignored since they aren’t essential. Your video did a good job describing many of the aspects of SA2 that we think make it also fun to randomize.
Thanks for this great video describing one of the gems from my childhood which I continue to love to this day.
It never ceases to amaze me it’s such a gl
As someone who only has played bits and pieces of SA2, I was completely unaware that the game had this much depth. I really like when levels have multiple paths aimed at different skill levels.
Stage-skipping... one player skipped one stage by only one jump from the start and I was left to wonder asking... "where is the fun in that...? Why would someone skip a level if they love to play it...???"
Because it takes an understanding and comfortability with the level that can only come after hours and hours of experiencing it in full without skipping it. Ideally, anyways. Its like finding a shortcut in mario kart, they're always a little hidden and can be tricky to pull off, so skipping it is an engaging feedback loop in and of itself
SA2 actually kinda has action chains already, just very obfuscated (like everything else). Off top of my head, in White Jungle, if you make it from the start of the stage to the first checkpoint without doing any jumps or somersaults unless they aim at a spring, enemy or are used to duck under a wooden obstacle, you get awarded with trick points when you make it the checkpoint. Cool, Radical, Tight or Awesome depending on how far you made it with those restraints until the checkpoint- acting like a combo of small sections where you alternate between not jumping and jumping once and doing large lengths without touching the ground. This is actually really hard to pull off in the Hard mode version of the stage. Iirc, you also do get more points for balancing properly in the grinding rails- at the end of City Escape, on the triple rail, you get anywhere from 600 to 1500 points (Radical to Extreme) based on how quickly you grinded down the rails.
I completely agree with your conclusion about more focus on tricks/action combos and less on speed/huge levels. I think making the stages progressively faster and larger is a "dead end" in terms of gameplay- speed leads to boost auto-play (since it's almost impossible to control something so fast) and large levels always end up empty. The trick system is the solution, in which it allows for player agency, precise and quick reactions (which emulate speed quite well) while also looking stylish.
I never even noticed this. Wow.
So many developers end up leaving good ideas on the table by never returning to what they built. Always starting from the ground up
10:58 dude, thank you for teaching me this shortcut, that made Final Chase a lot more fun for me
Sonic Adventure 2 is probably my second most played childhood game, (first being Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky) oh my god I still love this game and the adventure gameplay and replayed it a bunch on Steam too haha
It is really is a shame a lot of people write off Sonic instantly these days cause of a few bad games and never giving these a chance :(
But I must say you 100% nailed why it is so replayable and I beg of you to try The Big Catch: Tacklebox, been playing that on and off and it is probably the most replayable platformer I have played since SA2.
SA2 controls need fixing, the grinding is amazing on the Dreamcast, but because the controller evolved on newer consoles, but SA2s didn't update the controls, the risk reward for grinding is a lot better on the Dreamcast, people should look this up, it's amazing how people can zip on rails because of the balancing mechanics
@@blazeneko3384 Just gets worse with every port 😢
@@thecamobot from what I know, modders haven't fixed this, but someone on RUclips has made a tutorial on how to make it closer, using Steam's controller layout
Actually a mod came out about 2 weeks ago fixing this exact thing. It's called "SA2 Input Controls".
@@sbboard1 cool thanks, I need to try that out
@@thecamobot I just played the mod @sbboard1 talked about, it might have fixed one of your complaints, the flying off the rail, I might have just been lucky, but it did improve the movement by a lot
Normally, I don't leave comments but I really needed to this time. This was an absolutely incredible video! You took my exact thoughts and put them out in a way that makes sense to those who've never played these games before.
The magic of the Adventure formula truly cannot be understated and I do wish SEGA would try it again. I'm glad you were able to make such a great video on this topic, because I've been trying for quite some time now and couldn't get the right words for it.
I look forward to more content from you :)
Excellent video! As much fun as it is to blaze through the stages at high speed, it is equally fun to fully explore them at a slower pace and discover all the secrets. More Sonic-inspired indie games should focus on that too!
liked and subscribed because you covered a topic that peturbs me so much, the thing that i love about the older sonic games, and you covered this perfectly, was that alot of their levels feel narrow and offer many diffrent routes for you to explore, i want to add on that by saying that the levels also gave a feeling of clustrophobia, and i fucking love that, everything just felt so close together and when you compare that to fan games or newer sonic games they just dont have that same feel, everythings more open worlded like you mentioned, and i wish we got a new sonic game or fan game hat realized this and captured that feeling so i can experience that greatness again, great video, loved this
You hit the nail on the head about indie titles trying to emulate 3D Sonic focusing too much on big open space and a lot of speed. It really takes the challenge out of the gameplay and honestly makes it difficult to create interesting levels in my opinion. I'm glad that Frontiers recognized this and still gave us smaller levels to platform through in between exploring the islands. Looks like we're on track for that in Shadow Generations too
This video earned my sub. Thanks for putting to words what I couldn't as an 11 year old but felt in full force.
I really appreciate this love letter to my favourite game childhood game. I am pretty much completely in agreement with what I want from the series/spiritual successors, other than me quite strongly wishing for a new Chao Garden. Thanks for taking the time to nostalgia bomb me today, my "Perfect!" tattoo is practically glowing :)
Great video! SA2 will always be my favorite Sonic game. You did a great job explaining and the gameplay was top notch especially that long jump in final rush
I believe that the Adventure games were the first Sonic games that I ever played. I played SA1 more in my childhood because SA2 was too difficult for my childhood self, though in 2022 I learned that as an adult I can get through all 3 stories of that game, causing me to enjoy it a lot. I've been trying to get my own gaming PC this year and downloading Project-06 into it is one of the main things that I've already been 100% convinced to try to do after I get that PC. I've been trying to get help from people who I know have more knowledge about PCs than I do about how to find the right PC for myself.
Excellent video! I grew up playing SA2 as one of my first video games ever and as an adult now I still revisit it.
Even watching this video, I’m seeing things and routes I never thought of!
Been waiting for Sonic Adventure 3 for quite sometime
I wish they would give Shadow his run animation SA 2 back in all other games! Totally goated and it made you FEEL the speed of using him versus him slowly "skating" or gliding now.
Thank you for putting all that's awesome about sa2 into words!!!
Great video, my man. I do believe we can have a Sonic Game where it can be an even mix of Adventure, Boost, and Frontier type of gameplay. Or at the very least a game that allow us to have both the boost and the spin dash. Without nerfing one or making one overpowered. In fact I even got an idea. It’s simple we just got to have it where you need to use both options to reach high speeds.
It would go like this. First you have the boost. It gives Sonic a quick burst of speed. Now it CAN take down enemies. BUT. Only small/weak/one hp/level 1 enemies, obstacles like shields, and energy barriers. Then second, we have the spin dash. You hold it down and charge it up. Finally releasing it and you zoom off. Now it doesn’t gives you as much speed as a regular boost but it can take down slightly stronger enemies. Or let say level 2 enemies and obstacles. Now let’s see what happens when you combine them. First you hold down the spin dash button, then whiling charging the spin dash up, you press the boost button. Suddenly you spin dash change and has an extra effect/aura layer ontop of it. Finally you let it go and you zoom off. THAT. Is how you get to your max speed. Plus while in it you can run through a lot of enemies and obstacles. As long as you maintained it. You can also try this in the reverse order. Say that you are boosting but while boosting you pressed the spin dash button causing Sonic to roll into a spike ball. Boom! You enter into the same state once again. All you have to do is maintain that by not getting stopped or running into indestructible objects. Perfect 👍. This could work with multiple playable characters too.
I've heard the argument that in the classic games Sonic is a pinball, and in the modern games Sonic is a car. I think in the Adventure games he was a skateboard.
Sonic adventure 2 so epic!! 2001 we received this amazing game from sega and what a dreamcast sendoff; a game for the ages!!
I think someone should share this video with Sonic Team, as it exposes many of the problems I have with both official and fangames these days...
And the thing is that most people focus only on the physics of the character, when it is also important for a level design to have more things than just a straight line to run.
Your ideas are very creative, genuinely. I have subscribed because of that. Excited to see your other content.
How I can tell I've put a lot of hours into SA2:
Hearing *Let's Make it!* Getting looped repeatedly before the climax of the theme was driving me nuts lmao.
I do not think I have ever heard real analysis of anything in this franchise for quite sometime. Thank goodness.
Awesome coverage on this 10:50 A very nostalgic video my friend!
Growing up with Boost gameplay (UnWiished & Colors), I remember playing Adventure 2 for the first time and thinking "wow, I get it. I get why people like this style". You made me appreciate this formula in a new way.
I think you really brought up some great points with the trick systems. Every time I play SA2 now, I'm always thinking about getting a high score, and I think building upon that idea further would be amazing. Tony hawk pro skater meets SA2? I would EAT that up.
i think a big reason why indie projects don't feel as good as sonic is because they're very resistant to take control from the player, but sometimes the player needs the control taken from them for spectacle. Loop de loops in indie titles, when they leave you in control, feel TERRIBLE, but sonic has always done them right by locking the player on a track for them in every 3d game. That combined with the spaces being too open make them feel very empty and oftentimes monotonously boring.
as such, id really only recommend penny's big breakaway for anything similar to what SA2 could offer. It's not as blisteringly fast, but the level design and fluid movement definitely is closer.
Back when I'd replay Sonic games immensely, replayability was off the charts.
As a game Dev that has been heavily inspired by the Adventure Series, thank you for this!!!
Despite SA2 being my first console game ever, and one of the games I racked up the most hours in, I really appreciate the honesty of the "SA2 that exists" segment, because, when I was playing all the time as a kid, despite loving it then and still loving it now, there was still a lot of jank I remember screwing young me over more than helping. I remember getting so frustrated trying to switch rails in SA2 and Heroes, only to go flying into the abyss about 20% of the time. When the boost games had slower, largely automated rail switching that worked consistently, I remember welcoming it wholeheartedly. Still, I can't help feeling the loss of complexity had a negative impact. Coming back to it as an adult, with a little more patience makes the intricacies of grinding more apparent, and I find myself wishing there were a way to keep that without giving up consistency.
"squeeze and release"
Bill burr said something similar about comedy. Tension and release.
Olli Olli World is 2.5 side-on but REALLY feels like Sonic and Tony Hawk had a baby
I honestly feel like the only "replayable" aspects of Adventure 2 are the Sonic and Shadow levels. Those levels are bar none the best in the entire game with fast-paced gameplay, cool level quirks and cinematic moments. The Tails and Robotnik stages are honestly just kinda there and the Knuckles and Rouge stages are a chore to get through. I can only see someone replaying the Tails/Robotnik and Knuckles/Rouge stages for the sake of experiencing childhood nostalgia, making the replay-ability factor of them artificial.
I think the other stages have a few winners. Meteor Herd is fun to explore the underside of the ARK, Cosmic Wall is a lot of fun, and Iron Gate makes Robotnik feel like a powerful villain.
So less than 40 % of the game is Sorta Good
I actually had this game back when I had a Dreamcast. I didn’t know much about all these alternate routes. I just played the game just to get through the levels and never explored much, which is probably why it was a bit more of a linear experience for me. I never played for the “ranks” either as the game didn’t teach me to care about it. I found out later there was an unlockable Green Hill zone or something, but I never really had the regret about missing it.
You know, probably don't need to say this, but I really think Pizza Tower envisions this idea really well, and to be frank, that idea in general is just good racing game design. It's all about the tightness of your lines, the comfort you acquire with the controls, the routing of the stages, just topped onto with good arcade platforming. Score, skips, combos, everything is kept in line with an idea of what makes good arcade racers so fun but sprinkled on with that kind of complexity you can only get from a character who can jump and grind rails and such. I also really do appreciate the looking at sa2 through the lens of skate games, skate games also imbibe that perfect arcadey goodness that makes you really understand your actions and your pathing to maximize your gameplay, and I think that's definitely a missing component from a lot of sonic inspired games.
I put God knows how many hours into the Chao garden. Good times.
I love the adventure era games, usually they have multiple characters but in the exception of Shadow the Hedgehog at least there's multiple play styles with the different vehicles and weapons. Sonic Adventure 2 is my favorite game of all time and it's for many of the reasons that you listed about replay value getting better at the game the point system tricks you know all the different mechanics. And I also love the Tony Hawk series I often talk about these two games together and the way you can kind of link your moves and get points and go fast. I also throw in Sly Cooper because while that's not necessarily fast you have a lot of movement options like sliding on Rails climbing and when you get good at linking those together you can move faster.
I absolutely agree sonic should be a trick-based, action/combo platformer, and I wanna see that happen in the next 5 years pls
I always loved jumping out of a somersault because of the different jump animation. Not sure if it ever gave points, but it's certainly a style thing that made Sonic Adventure 2 great. I want to make an indie game like SA2 at some point and have been watching these retrospectives to get a better understanding of why the level design was so good.
Sonic Adventure 2 is definitely my favorite Sonic game. Not even just the speed levels, if you get that “I have to go and i have to do it now” mentality out of your head, the treasure hunting levels are just really chill areas to hang out in and search for the emeralds at your leisure (or as fast as you can if you know where they can spawn), and the mech stages are really fun to just destroy as much as you can in your path. And then of course the speed stages are just the cherry on top. Not perfect of course, but god does it feel good. Once you get a good flow where you just don’t stop, perfection.
Fun and amazing level design that rewards exploration, incredible music that I still listen to today in the car. I used to wake up and grind this game for hours just trying to get my Choas stronger than the rest of my friends lol
I agree with pretty much everything you said. Specifically, I agree that the trick system was incredibly rewarding, and the ratings in modern games don't reinforce the same kind of replayability with high scores given too easily.
Sonic Adventure 2 is definitely a favorite when it comes to Sonic games. The Chao Garden adds tons of replayability.
17:06 Sonic Venture has you covered
the point about tightly knit very specifically designed levels in contrast extremely open areas is something I can't help but nod in agreement with. Lots of fangames and spiritual sequels push for exhilarating speed and that has its merits but so much freedom of movement means you aren't pushing for "faster. Faster! do it Better!"
Sonic = skateboarder
Shadow = rollerblader
I’ve felt this way my whole life. I remember when Heroes came out and while I was excited because I was a Sonic fanboy, I could definitely tell something was missing. It makes me wonder what Sonic could have been if Sonic 06 went well. It’s clear that Sega just keeps doing what works and because Unleashed absolutely crushed it along with Generations, they just keep pushing out the same boost formula that’s been relevant for over 15 years now. It’s been so long now that Sonic has a new identity crisis. Even if they made a decent Adventure game all the new gen Sonic players would probably hate on it and Sega would shy away from the formula again :(
IMO there is yet a Indie game that nail what I love about SA2, thats why I've taken it apon myself, and I think you nailed a lot of the things I love about SA2
The adventure style is where my heart was, my introduction of playing Sonic endlessly on my older cousin's Dreamcast as I played a Sonic Adventure demo disk, endlessly replaying Emerald Coast with my younger cousin was a vibe. Then comes my shock when I got my Game Cube and reliving that same experience on my own with DX. That's not even to mention my experience with SA2 Battle, back when I rented the game (Really struggled with the G.U.N Truck and the first boss) Remembered playing City Escape back to back and raising Chao that alone supported my enjoyment untill I got the game myself and my mind was blown.
As for Heroes I wouldn't consider it an 'Adventure' game, least from a mechanics stand point, it's like, calling Lost World a Boost game even if it appeared two games after Unleashed kicking off the boost Era, like how SA1 did with Adventure. Like they are in the respective adventure and boost eras, but Sega just took a hard pivot for some reason before returning to form in both cases.
Shadow The Hedgehog is more mechanically aligned with the adventure game play but with the Heroes aesthetic.
Sonic The Hedgehog (06), never played the original but I enjoy what P-06 has done. If that was any indication of what 06 could of potentially been mechanically, it would be insane.
I love SA2 to bits, but I do agree that I tend to play as 2/6 characters 95% of the time. But there is a time I do enjoy playing one of those 4, Eggman in Cosmic Wall. You combined low gravity with tonnes of targets and it becomes a power trip!
I 100% agree with your thoughts on Spark The Electric Jester and Rollin' Rascal here. I love Spark and I've played the hell out of the Rascal demo. But I do notice that a lot of these stages are lacking a real identity like Sonic levels tend to have.
This and Sonic Advance 3. Experimenting with all the Tag Teams kept me coming back to the game.
Super solid video man!! Literally made me go boot up my gamecube again because of this.
Sonic Adventure 2 Battle was so fun and the Chao Garden had a reason for me to keep playing, so I S ranked everything in the game back when I was a kid. No other game has pulled me in that strongly.
There is no S rank in sonic adventure 2 battle but ok
I wish this style would come back (along with tails and knuckles having linear 3d levels as well like SRB2) while the boost formula could be used to revive the storybook games.
That way, we could have the adventure formula for mainline games while using the boost formula for the storybook games.
This is an insanely well made and thought out explanation of what makes Sonic Adventure 2 an amazing game to replay, and just a fantastic game in general. Very well done, great video! Watching this at 7k views, I really hope this ends up getting way more, it deserves it.
Awesome video, congratulations!
It's great to have an in-depth analysis of the Adventure gameplay, specifically SA2. It would be great if you did reviews of the entire game or other 3D games in the franchise, like Unleashed HD.
Hugs from Brazil!
Sonic Robo Blast 2 is the Sonic game that's endlessly replayable. It's also the greatest Sonic game of all-time.
As I child, I remembered sonic heroes as an incredible game with a lot of cool characters. Ten years later I replayed it and I understand why people say it feels unpolished.
Anyway SA2 is the best sonic game imo, it is iconic and has so much replayability.
Over the years I've replayed Heroes more than SA2 just because all of its stages are in the "speed" style, so there's just more to play. But there's a lot I love about SA2 and its physics. Also I think City Escape is a must-play stage. Like, for all gamers.
good video, the adventure style will always be the king to me, and in SA2 u dont get trick points when you land on a rail u only get them when u land on the ground for some weird ass reason.
Nice video, thanks for shining light on this amazing game
As someone who completed SA2 on Dreamcast back in the day and mastered every level I agree. I don’t necessarily enjoy the big open worlds or the boost style gameplay as much. I loved how tight and difficult some levels felt on SA2 because you COULD go fast asf but it took skill and understanding of the level design. Once you mastered a level the game would feel so rewarding. It was the last truly COOL sonic game in my opinion. I did enjoy Sonic Heroes though.
Adding to the possible combo system, they could easily have the P rank from Pizza Tower, specifically the part where you must keep one combo going through the whole level that would be a fun challenge.
Such a beautifully written video. Love the pacing an speed at which you talk. Beautiful video.
I can forgive every transgression of SA2B because of how much i loved the Chao Garden. Tomagachi on steroids. ❤
man what a great loveletter to these games in a video format
SA2 imo also had the best overall soundtrack of any 3D sonic game and the best Chao Garden, which could have just been its own game.
Using speed loss/speed gain values, and enemies that can boost or lower your speed If you do certain things or be damage by then to account more frequently in the gameplay would bring lots of speedrun strats
awesome game design video! :D
The skibidi formula