If you want more context on my stance, check out these videos: Clone Wars Season 6 Review - ruclips.net/video/P1jcOKzBhrc/видео.html Clone Wars Season 7 Review - ruclips.net/video/aaZB5gSL-JM/видео.html How Clone Troopers ACTUALLY Work - ruclips.net/video/aQeFPeHggow/видео.html Also, I've been contributing to a Wiki created by one of my peers, that aims to remove TCW from the face of the Earth - star-wars-ccanon.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars_C-Canon_Wiki
I remember listening to the revenge of the sith novelization and being so confused when it mentioned battles not shown in the clone wars when it mentioned anakin not having fought dooku since geonosis when so many things were different than in tcw then looking at the micro series and listening to labrinth of evil I didn't understand why tcw was different that's when I discovered the republic comics and watched a video called why the clone wars doesn't fit in legends by captain fordo I watched part 1 and part 2 in part 2 he broke down every book tcw retcons character changes retcons to the movies and video games and so much more I was shocked I was always so confused why stuff didn't add up or make sense or some stupid plot points or all the jedi being weak especially the high council when they are supposed to be the strongest and why mace windu was portrayed as a jerk and arrogant.I also didn't understand why yoda basically saw order 66 and said nothing at all or why in other novels their were no chips why it said in attack of the clones they were genetically modified to follow order if that was the case why add chips to.I also didn't understand anakin's personality change and why he was knighted so quickly after what he did in attack of the clones it was all so confusing and when I finally watched that video I understood I love the clone wars I still do it's got a lot of problems but I find it funny especially anakin and obi wans banters and I like ashoka but it's just not canon and it's no way it can fit and like captain fordo said it should be removed from legends wookiepedia is al messed up trying to tie everything together when tcw retcons everything and it's sad that we couldn't get the true clone wars in all it's brutal and sad goodness. I also would like to add that it was George Lucas who changed darth bane supposedly they could be lying about it but a lot of sources say he changed him. and I really would like some books to be changed to change some writing references things in tcw like in darth plagueis on how palpatine got maul listening to that it sounded of and forced I still don't understand how tcw and and the clone wars in the books was canon at the same time when tcw retconned everything and the workers had to try and do damage control and make books for it to fit in when it just didn't it's sad to see how disney rips of the eu and does not give credit where credit is due like with dave filonis tales of the jedi it was announced just months after the original creator died he ripped of the name to the very detail on how the name appears rips of how the name is on the cover of the book the same color and title even in some books I can just hear how they pulled lines from eu and ripped it of changed the wording around but I can remember which book it comes from honestly I was shocked how much disney ripped of the eu and claimed it wasn't canon this how you know they got no creativety when they can't come up with their own characters without ripping them of from the eu and it's really sad to see how some fans don't understand and call other fans the fandom menace iv seen so many videos echoeing statements that disney and Kathleen Kennedy and other actors have said about fans being racist homophobic bigots or don't like women or diversity and I honestly don't understand why they keep using same arguments over and over they just won't accept something being bad grown adults not being able to own up to their own failings even more so I hate it when actors return to do disneys work or eu writers just cave in and write for disney some leave like karen traviss and it's really sad to see these peoples works being thrown under the rug and copied but not given the respect and deserve and how disney makes the eu out to be messy when disney can't even keep their own canon straight dave filoni retconned the ashoka novel with the siege of mandalore and the obi wan kenobi show retconned the obi wan kenobi books only slightly pulling from it not to mention depa billaba died at night not during the day it's laughable how many times disneys retconned their own stuff but wan't to call the eu uncoordinated. sorry this is long im ranting cuz it's so damn frustrating.😢😢
Honestly The Actual Clones Relation/Reaction towards Betraying the Jedi would be like In The Incredibles 2 Scene(Regardless of Film’s Quality the scene is an Astute example) Hellen: Why would you count on me? Because I built you a bike? Because my brother knows the words to your theme song? We don't know each other! Elastigirl: But you can count on me anyway. Evelyn Deavor: I'm supposed to, aren't I? Because you have some strange abilities and a shiny costume, the rest of us are supposed to put our lives into your gloved hands.
@j.j.plagiarisms7149 Could you now do take on ruclips.net/video/-a7x5N2eVFE/видео.htmlsi=ymRCHGQ_S4c-UbIR I highly recommend learning about this guy and his “understandings” Of Star Wars.
Schaff doesn't seem to look into the EU martial tied to the movies. Also, I'm a bit surprised that people like him complained about the prequel era Jedi being under developed when the Rebel leaders like General Jan Dodonna, Mon Mothma, and Admiral Ackbar were given a pass.
Look in to it more like doesn't want to mention it. Schaff definitely does know about the EU because in his majora's mask video he mentions how they didn't make Luke overpowered as an example of subversion of expectations. Which is misconception made by people who use as a excuse on why the EU was bad.
@@SergioLopez-eb6fz Or, in another words, he knows shit about the EU! Because everyone who actually had read at least one material of the EU about Luke and his grown as a Jedi Knight and Master, knows how hard was for him to became as powerful as he became, how many beloved people related to him died in his life, and how much struggles he had with the darkside and with the burden of being the last of the old Jedi and the first of the new Jedi at the same time! The Old Marvel comics and the Thrawn trilogy, for examples, shows us how unconfident he was at the start of his journey as the new seed of the Jedi Order! But, this misconception amount of "knowledge" about the franchise as a whole is expected from these Disney chills, unfortunately...
@@SergioLopez-eb6fzLuke wasn't always a super powered jedi. Even in his later days he's was always unsure and struggled , questioned if he was doing the right thing, and his moments of extreme power were always under extreme stress. Luke's great power was not turning to darkside , especially when he allowed himself to become the apprentice to a clone of Palpatine. They have literally no idea what tgey are talking about, making Luke a weirdo, blue milk drinking asshat was a serious disrespect to the character, as his character was always maintaining hope no matter what, even scared or doubtful he choose hope each and everytime, and he never told anyone such things he said to Rey in that movie, it was anti Luke behavior
@@beentheredonethat5908 I know I'm just saying that was a misconception that is really big problem that Disney Canon fans just say for the sake of doubling down on the EU. Even if they had not read a single EU book in their life and just follow the popular narrative that people say.
He literally said Favreau and Filoni were the first ones to have a chance of "doing something" with Boba Fett, totally ignoring the EU. Yeah, he knows very little of SW in general.
Reminder that even if you like the Show, the real impactful Ending would have been Ahsoka being shot in the Back by Rex and then the Show just cutting to black.
I never really got why people liked ahsoka so much, Dave filoni created a 14 yr old in a tube top and mini skirt so people have a reason to watch the show.
The Darth Plagues Novel covers the clones backstory and the idea of their creation wonderfully when the Sith were seeing them as a possible perfect army for the Grand Plan. Plagues even initially wanted them to not be human but Yinchorri, but that didn't pan out for various reasons. Thus, after some brainstorming, humans were determined to be the ideal species of the army.
The inhibitor chips were a mistake. I love the way he brought up The Bad Batch, as that show completely undermines the chips and how they function, by having some clones just randomly be able to resist it and start rebelling against the Empire. That was the show that made me start to realise just how bad this version of Order 66 was by comparison. It just serves to highlight why the chips were such a bad idea, because the second they randomly stop working, a whole bunch of the clones turn on Palpatine immediately and start undermining his rule. If the clones were depicted as they were in the old canon, then they would never have been able to turn on Palpatine, Kanan and Ahsoka would never have escaped, and the Sith plan would have gone off as intended, bar Obi Wan and Yoda's survival. Why would Palpatine risk having the clones form strong bonds with their jedi commanders, and rely on a chip being able to completely override their free will, when he could just breed the clones to hate the jedi and follow orders without question from day 1? The chances of an inhibitor chip failing are way higher than the chances of a clone being defective enough to disobey orders, and actually wanting to help the jedi. We even see that one chip breaking almost derailed Palpatine's entire plan. If the jedi weren't so stupid in TCW, they'd have been able to figure out what was coming and stop it before it ever happened. Also, Dave Filoni, once again, couldn't even be consistent with the stupid nonsense he himself established. TCW established that the clones couldn't resist the inhibitor chips, and were forced to obey orders, then The Bad Batch immediately shows clones refusing to obey the Empire's orders. Rex was barely able to resist the chip for a few seconds, but clones like Howzer can just decide they don't like what the Empire is doing and defect? They never even bothered to try and explain how that was possible, not that it would have made much sense if they had. I can't wait for you to rip into The Bad Batch. That show was so bad that it made TCW look good by comparison.
The funniest Thing about that all IT makes the stormtroopers way more competent soldiers than the filoni Clones, despite being human,No decades Long brainwashing and Training, the stormtroopers obey Orders, are effective and are willing to die for the cause. The Clones should BE that ON kamino steroids but somehow filoni Made them so incompent soldiers that the filoni Clones are Just slightly better conscripts
Naht they were a good decision really. Nah that show just isn't written well, how it was done in TCW is well written, Bad Batch is a outlier really. No the chips weren't a bad idea, except they don't randomly stop working they've been clearly tested. Eh no there would be some that deny the orders really, there will always be exceptions. I mean when they hang out with the Jedi and see what they are really like then clearly after years they wouldn't all hate the jedi, with the chip it means when they betray the jedi all suddenly then it will be quicker and none of them will hesitate on their own and the jedi will have their guard done with their relationship and trust with the clones and will swiftly be killed. No the chances of a clone disobeying orders when they still somewhat have a mind of their own is much higher then the chances of an inhibitor chip ever failing. Yeah only one and even then it was a needle in a heystack it was the only defective one which yeah it makes sense as the chips were clearly throughly tested really. Nah they weren't stupid in TCW at all but they weren't able to figure out what was coming and stop it before it ever happened as they didn't have enough info to figure it all out and they didn't have much time at that point either. He was consistent with it in TCW though and it isn't stupid nonsense. Well yeah TCW is good really.
The Clones need to be unaware of their mission otherwise the Jedi would immediately sense their hateful intent upon meeting them. The Clones need to fail because the Empire needs a reason to replace this army that was presented as The Perfect Army™️ in the AOTC.
I forgot how much the clones hated the jedi for the death at geonosis. Also favorite thing Cody says is basically, Damn wish you told me this before I just gave him his lightsaber back.
The novel Dark Lord The Rise of Darth Vader covered the clones and the Jedi great. It showed the working relationship they had, but also showed that the regular clones just didn't have the independence to question orders or think beyond their mandate, as only a commando squad, which were the only clones bred with more of Jango's independence as it was needed for missions, were able to question it
Also the Thing with the commandos they didnt dissobeyed because they thought It was morally questionable but they expected a CIS Plot and they warned Roman shryne they would kill him the next time they See him
"People like TCW because they don't know any better" this is something that I always thought. The 2003 Clone Wars, the Republic comics, Republic Commando game and the rest of the multimedia project are SOOOOO much better materials.
But this retcon was PART of George's vision. And it makes far more sense that 'blind obedience' because life itself doesn't work that way. Conditioning degrades over time, and they fought for several years.
@@colvamoon6962 This is not real life, this is a ficcional work! And even in real life, soldiers blindly obeying an authority actually happens, because brainwash is something that really exists! Now imagine this but with soldiers made on laboratory and programmed genetically to being less independent than a normal human being (episode II, made by George Lucas, stablished that, without any kind of inhibitor chips' bullshit).
@@colvamoon6962 Thats just cope. Makes no sense either. Normal soldiers would have obeyed order 66. No question clones genetically created to obey orders would as well, especially since they always knew it was coming. TCW appologists can cope it was Lucas vision. Bottom line, George said the movies are his only cannon. George said he was stepping away. Final 2 seasons of clone wars were released under Disney. TCW isnt legends its disney cannon. Stop coping.
@dnaseb9214 no, normal soldiers wouldn't. Tell me, you're a soldier, who's been fighting alongside your commanding officers for 3-4 years. You get a call from the commander in chief, telling you to execute your officer for treason. And you DONT double check? And conditioning like the clones degrades over time, much like erosion. Again, George made this retcon so explain why none of the clones double checked. If you don't like it, then that's YOUR decision, but facts don't care about your feelings.
@@darthlucasfuu funny, because brainwashing can degrade over time. Same with conditioning. So, you mean to tell me that, if a creator says something, he can't be allowed to retcon or expand upon it when he has a better idea? Better tell that to Tolkien.
Rex recognizing Palpatine as Sidious made me 🤢 despite not having had any idea of the EU at the time. And yes, the Kanan comic story is far better than baloney's...
"What I remember about the rise of the Empire is... is how quiet it was. During the waning hours of the Clone Wars, the 501st Legion was discreetly transferred back to Coruscant. It was a silent trip. We all knew what was about to happen, what we were about to do. Did we have any doubts? Any private, traitorous thoughts? Perhaps, but no one said a word. Not on the flight to Coruscant, not when Order 66 came down, and not when we marched into the Jedi Temple. Not a word." "With the fall of Coruscant and the elimination of the traitorous Jedi, Palpatine's rise to power was complete. In recognition of our service and loyalty to the Emperor, the 501st were placed under the direct command of Lord Vader. Armed with deadly new weapons, blazing new ships, and shiny new armor, our presence let the galaxy know that the days of the Old Republic were well and truly over. We were establishing a new era, an era of order and peace." This is my Bible quote...it was first and shall always be the lore...good soldiers followed orders to the grave. Not droid slaves to chips in their brain
"To this day, I can't understand what motivated our creators to rise up against us. Had they gone mad? Have we failed them in some way? In the end, really didn't matter. The Kaminoians had to be stopped and their army of traitorous gene cousins destroyed. The first few kills were the hardest. After all, it’s hard not to get a little spooked when the enemy screams with your voice....We shook it off and did our job. Most of the troopers never knew about Kamino. Like a lot of things in the Empire, it never really happened."
@MrAwesomeSolos with hindsight, yeah, but at that moment and the propaganda of the chancellor (and the psyco coding and the kamonoins participation) plus the hatred of the jedi for killing so many brothers (if you wanna add personality to all of them)
I brought up a few points on that video including how inhibitor chips would basically make the OT impossible since there’s no reason why most of the galaxy, never mind most of the military, wouldn't be chipped if they existed.
@@Lobsterwithinternet True. At the very least, Imperial deserters like Han Solo would've never deserted, since Palpatine could've just had the chips implanted during their training.
Sheev talk stated he only used sourced materials from fixed media canon and legends, then process to used Legends materials to defend why inhibitor chips. Also igrone the multi media project the Force Unleash is, that the game are rule cool gameplay and will take great liberty for player engagement vs reading the book which ground TFU to Movies. Also that Starkiller is very weak compared to fighting other force users and has to think smartly to fight back. Great double strandards Sheev got. Also he made a video complain how star wars doesn't tackle heavy subject seriously when the inhibitor chips are basically just let clone being controlled by evil instead of the fact they been indoctrinated their entire life.
@@bloodysimile4893 Yeah, that was when he tried to argue that since clone commandos in the book _Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader_ were able to disobey Order 66 that all clones could disobey Order 66 and the chips were necessary. But he ignored the fact that special forces clones like commandos, ARC Troopers and Null Troopers were specifically bred to be more independent than regular clones. And in that same book, only the clone commandos disobey Order 66 as the rest just go along with it without question and were even willing to throw their lives away in human wave attacks just to get at the commandos and the Jedi they were protecting. Just to play devil’s advocate, he was talking specifically about Disney’s tv shows like BoBF and The Acolyte.
38:33 "It's the showdown we've all been desperate to see." Nah, it was a completely pointless fight with no stakes whatsoever, because we knew both those characters survive unscathed.
Intended final arc? You mean the arc that tried to say that Bozo-Katan was just misunderstood for selling her people out to human supremacists? And that her turning her back on Deathwatch was a last minute change of heart and NOT her being butthurt that the dude she was simping for lost to a non-human?
Ironically I think that this is how the stormtroopers should have been written. The clones are written how the storm troopers should have been written and the other way around, ironically cross hair in season 2 of the bad batch was acting more like an actual clone trooper because when they took out his inhibitor chip he was still hunting down the the bad batch.
They definitely should made an television animated show who adapted, page to page, the Republic comics, instead of TCW... The CWMMP as a whole has plenty of really great and deep stories who could became a masterpiece of a show, like OG Clone Wars was.
@@dang3rousdamian743 Now we're talking! 🔥 New Jedi Order is Star Wars peak! I love that series! 🔥 Series that should have an animated adaptation: Republic (Jedi Council: Acts of War, Jedi and Obsession included), Legacy (2006, War and 2013), OG Marvel Comics (these comics are a surprise to be sure, but a welcome one), the New Jedi Order (the most massive and subversive one, in a good way, series of all), the Thrawn trilogy (the comic adaptation was a good way to visualize the whole scenes, and it's style should be maintained), Dark Empire trilogy (an RUclipsr is already making it, when I get his name I will edit this comment and credite him for sure), the Hands of Thrawn duology (basically Luke and Mara romantic story that culminated on their eventual married in "Union"), Tales of the Jedi (Knights of the Old Republic to Redemption, and Golden Age of the Sith to Fall of the Sith Empire ones too), and Crimson Empire. All of that are really good ones, I simply love it! (Surely has many many others who deserves as much as that ones, but they're the ones I read yet 😅) *Edit* @SpikeyTortoise is the man who is making Dark Empire animated series
That quote by Bacara (who holds the highest Clone rank) + the Galactic Marines entire getup is why he's my favorite clone. By the way, that single shot of the Galactic Marines shows that the Clones DO have "personality". The kind they SHOULD have, regimental designations, regimental colors, regimental brotherhood... not the 'personality' of a bunch of soul searching uni students. (For the record, I'm not a fan of the Prequels in general, but I am a fan of CWMP and especially the Microseries).
We should definitely get a top 10 Star wars games that are now considered "legends". Star wars bounty hunter & Star wars Republic commando should be high up there
for me 1. Knight of the Old Republic 2. Knight of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords 3. Battlefront II 2005 4. Republic Commando 5. Revenge of the Sith The Video Game 6. Bounty Hunter 7. Battlefront 2004 8. Jedi Outcast 9. Jedi Academy 10. The Force Unleashed
The whole CW went from being a SW cartoon to Filoni cartoon literally at the start. Lucas originally wanted Tartakovsky to be the head of the animation part, but Tartakovsky knew that then he can't do anything else. Filoni came after and as for now, you see, everything has became a bunch of Member Berries.
This guy's argument (Schaffrillas Productions) is like saying Young Shelton saved the Big Bang Theory. If you have a series that is made after the original series. (The original series being seen as bad) then because of the prequal series (which is made after the main series, such as Young Shelton being created after Big Bang Theory, which somehow makes the original series good in retrospect) then it's Revisionism, Prequal Haters are Revisionists, either love something or hate it for what it is. That's just what I think.
@@randomramblings2325 I do think YS is better than TBBT though. Mostly because YS doesn't have a laugh track and doesn't reinforce stereotypes. Also Missy's sass.
So, I'm only twelve minutes in, but if i remember correctly, there are clones in the Legends Universe that *do not* like Jedi. This (as a combat veteran) actually stuck with me more and felt more impactful from a viewer standpoint. Because the idea that the clones (who have fought and seen countless comrades die in a war they barely understand, were brainwashed to wage, and have (according to Republic law toward clones) have *zero stakes in* ) looking at the Jedi as "do-gooders" and essentially "priests, ministering in the bowels of hell" is far more interesting to me, and it's interesting in how it makes the clones, ironically, have more agency than the inhibitor chip thing. While i get the idea that some clones would like and respect the Jedi, anyone who is or knows "meat eaters" in the military, paramilitary, or police world might understand that plenty of clones would get tired of their rhetoric and ideals. Even when the Jedi can do the impossible, that makes their resentment more interesting, as *they* never pay for overoptimistic or unqualified command decisions. The genius of Palpatine's plan, as I see it, is that he basically "trains clones to love the state, but to despise its ancestral protectors" simply because a Jedi says "don't blow up that village," leads their clones in, gets dozens of clones killed, saves two civilians, and smiles and backslaps about a job well done. Again, I'm not arguing that every clone would or should hate the Jedi, but it makes them, as fighting men in a brutal, bloody war, more human and understandable when (in my mind) at least 20% would hate them, 30-40% would be negative (but short of loathing) and the rest would shift between bewilderment and near-reverential support. War is the ultimate corrosive agent for propaganda, after all, so long as one is living it. You can't eat "republic good" or replace an empty magazine with rhetoric, so I personally believe the clones would "grow up" during the war and gradually develop their own opinions as *men* , not "wet droids" or "biological machines." All this speaks to what I always head-cannoned as Sheev's greatest achievement. The Republic doesn't have an army for a good reason, and the Jedi are like "inquisitors" in the Catholic Church, without the ethical overtones associated with that term. But, by forcing the republic into a position where an army was necessary, the men who fill the ranks would gradually come to resent or at least feel bewildered astonishment at what are essentially "space wizards." So, if O66 was just clones getting a dicey order, some believing in it, others not, but *everyone* knowing its down to them and their brothers, I feel like the messaging and theme of the PT is far better than it is with "i press button = you become bad boi."
This is what I think people forget about the CW. The Jedi WHERE NOT GENERAL. Often times their actions and frontal assault styled bit a lot of clones killed. While he is a Filoni Creation a character like Pong Krell and how they directed/lead battles would be more akin to how most Jedi fought (minus the evilness). It was literally only Obiwan and Anakin that lead their troops decently well.
@@Gdsryrox that's not entirely true, as you would know if you read the original Clone Wars timeline from the Multimedia Project. Not every Jedi besides Kenobi and Skywalker were bad commanders. There was a lot of nuance to the Jedi serving as generals.
@@mstash5 for what it’s worth, I see Jedi who were good commanders as a byproduct of beneficial happenstance and luck more than anything else. To be clear, this isn’t me disagreeing with you or anything you said, but I thought it was interesting that you mentioned it. Because, if we take the PT at face value (and even many/most aspects of the clone wars as a medium, regardless of source) the idea that the Jedi even *should* be good at generalship is crazy. This, to me (with a hefty dose of “face-valuing” instead of subtext analysis) makes Palpatines plan even better. Because he’s basically taking a critical, spiritual, institution of the Republic (I’d say it’s fair, if a bit of a stretch to compare the Jedi to the Catholic Church in medieval times) and putting it in an impossible position. As mace windu once said, “we’re keepers of the peace, not soldiers.” Yet, despite that, these men and women of peace, these diplomats, lawmen, and spiritual guardians of the republic, are tarnished by the touch of war. I once mentioned to a friend that “anakin is a good general because he’s a bad Jedi.” While this take is hardly innovative, I hope it encapsulates my point. Palpatines deconstruction of the Republic, be that on a writing level or an “simulated reality” level, is as impressive in a technical sense as it is terrifying in an ethical one. Because he starts with the soul, he starts by eroding the foundations of the system, and when he’s done, emergency powers, nationalizing corporate entities, and so on are essentially forgone conclusions. This, again, is why I liked the pre-inhibitor lore, as it directly poses a challenge to fans about how tyranny works and how it dismantles systems by perverting them, corrupting them, and erasing the collective belief and hope for liberty as a tangible solution to life’s many problems. And I suppose that’s what bothers me most about the inhibitor chip thing; it steals agency from characters and presents tyranny as an almost primal force, not something that was fed, fostered, and protected by the willing, even if they were “only clones” of a mandalorian (I’m not buying the “jango isn’t a mando” retcon) bounty hunter.
I believe the main point of contention is that on their own, the movies are a self-contained bubble. Whichever way we spin it, supplementary material does not "patch", "fix" or "recontextualize", as strictly-speaking, they are distinct from their source material. Taking it as an extended, multimedia narrative however, Schalffrillas' assertions fall apart.
JJ Plagiarisms. I know you're a smart guy and I commend you for spreading knowledge. But I am worried that you're channel has become a Star Wars equivalent to Steven Anderson's RUclips ministry. What concerns me is your quick rush to publicly judge and degrade people who have different views from you. Now, I admit some of the people you villainize actually deserve it. But now like Steven Anderson, you're getting angry at people who probably aren't as horrible as you think they are. You're acting as if you're better smarter person with your only defense is, "I know more." Have you tried to communicate with these people you disagree with privately before making a negative video about them? If not, then I advice you to restrain from childish name calling.
@@j.j.plagiarisms7149 I understand you. But again, be careful because some of the people you're dissing aren't trying to be high & mighty or competing for glory. Just don't be a hypocrite when talking about how one person is evil, lazy, uneducated or unqualified. Because I know about your past in those Discord chats and whay you said. I have people who I have huge disagreements with. In some of those times it resulted them calling me a monster because I wasn't "educated" like them. Only one called me to apologize because when we met again in university I was cordial, I smiled, I wasn't mean, and I guided her to a location that she was going to because she was heading the opposite way. She was surprised on how despite her calling me vile names the last time we talked, I was still kind to her when most people in her life didn't.
I hated the chip introduction. It's much more impactful that the clones follow order 66 because it their loyalty to the Republic and Sidious, and it makes it more meaningful to the clones who chose to ignore it and help their Jedi. Most clones would of hated the Jedi because they were unfit to be soldiers because their dogma and ideals would get more troops killed, the jedis refusal (bar a few) to do what needs to be done for victory would breed alot of hate and contempt. Way more compelling than "Har, har you bad now because I click chip."
Ah, Schaffrillas, one of the most convoluted when it comes to Star Wars criticism. One minute, he praises something from the prequels. The next, he's bashing George for hiring yes-men. I like some of his ytps and criticisms of other shows (Voltron), but he's a classic RLM fancuck.
One thing we also need to say is that most clones weren't working closely with their jedi generals like Rex. Most would have probably never talked or fought with them and would have been taking their orders from other clones, in which palpatine would have been the ultimate commander of the army and they would have little reason to disbelieve him when he said the jedi betrayed the republic. So even if the 2008 show wanted to explore the clones and their personalities and show that they weren't just mindless soldiers, they didn't have to change how order 66 worked because it would have still made sense.
@@j.j.plagiarisms7149 Name it "I don't know about a batch, but they sure are bad!" or at least say it somewhere in the video please, my one irl friend coined that phrase and if you bring it up I'd love to show it to him, he loves star wars video essays and I have wanted to show him your channel.
The Leader of the seperatists IS a Jedi and Most people didnt give a Damn about the Difference between a Jedi and a Sith If you are a Lightsalber swinging Wizard you are a Jedi to Most people in the Galaxy.
If the order is coming directly from the holographic image of the Chancellor or is being phoned in by their commander, why would the clones assume it's a Separatist plot? In one specific instance, admittedly, a squad of _commandos_ did suspect that.
Order 66 was so chilling and heartbreaking in Revenge Of The Sith. I didn't understand it much as a kid but as a grown adult it hits harder. As that's the only time we saw the brutality Star Wars was capable of on screen for a rated PG-13 rating. George got away with a lot and I'm shocked really. But now, we've seen Order 66 depicted so many times, from so many different perspectives that to me it's lost its meaning. What was once a shocking and gruesome event in history has now become a thing that just happened... To a lot of individuals who lived through it. Especially with those who SURVIVED. The meaning behind the scene was that the Jedi Order was dead. And those that did live died by the time Return Of The Jedi rolled around. Yoda even says, "When gone I am, the last of the Jedi you will be." Which to me me adds way more weight on Luke. Meaning if he fails to convert Vader the Galaxy is doomed.
To think it was the last time we got anything out of lucas himself... in a way, the film was the chronological end of star wars, we just didn't know it, a big NOOOOOOOOOOO of regret and a final screen of an evil empire building their super weapon... but... will there be.. a new hope?
@@KARKATELCESARENVIADODESA-pv4yd It was definitely the end. As the whole story had been told. George literally says the story of Star Wars is the tragedy of Anakin it starts when he's 9 and ends when he's dead. He actually said that
What a lot of this Filoni fans don't realise is that many soldiers in the real world would follow order 66 like commands. Imagine for example: The President of the USA asks troops under a general to remove him from command by force if needed. The soldiers would obey the president, add in that this General is incompetent, does not get on with soldiers and uses them like cannon fodder and wastes their lives, Lets not forget soldiers take a vow to protect the Republic and it's people as well. Let's be honest I can see many NCOs, officers and their soldiers more than happy to end this general. So what the Clones did without any chips has happened in the past, many times a rogue commander has been stopped by his own Men, Roman History is full of such examples.
Yeah the filoni Fans never Look how IT Looks in Universe , the Jedi we're attempting a Coup to overthrow the government and Tried to Assassinate the chancellor. This IS treason in every Sense of the Word
You seriously can't expect people to always know the EU off the bat. The majority of Star Wars fans, the Casual audience, aren't going to bother reading countless books and comics, they prefer streamlined approaches to consume things easier. It's sad yes, but that's how it is. In regards to why George Lucas created TCW, he didn't create it to "satisfy Prequel haters", he created because he felt he never got the chance to explore the Clone Wars fully in the films, hence why he hired Genndy Tartakovsky for the Micro-series to test the waters with Animation, and then decided to continue it with his Clone Wars series, and yes.... TCW is GEORGE's series, Filoni just adopted it. The majority of ideas and storylines came from George. Lucas wanted to explore television and animation, because it invited opportunities for good storytelling. Not only was Lucas working on TCW with Filoni, but also had planned a Live-Action series titled "Underworld" which the video game 1313 would have tied into. If you want to blame anyone for the Retcons to previous Clone Wars material, blame George Lucas. People forget that Lucas was allowed to change things as he saw fit, and TCW was the prime example of Lucas using that power.
It's pretty easy with Wookieepedia, I didn't really read more than Plagueis and Lost Tribe of the Sith and Exar Kun comics, and I have a general sense of the timeline of events in the EU in my head
I find IT funny whenever filoni IS praised its all filonis Idea but the nanosecond WE critize the retcon Shit that was TCW suddenly IT was all George Lucas Idea, very convient...
Always preferred the way battlefront 2 (2005) portrayed the clones as knowing they were going to betray the Jedi (because the idea of the inhibitor chip didn't exist back then) and in some ways hating the Jedi "In the waning hours of the clone wars the 501 was discreetly transferred back to Coruscant, we all know what was about to happen what we were about to do."
@@meiriongratland9272 They didn't know they were going to betray the Jedi. They didn't see it as betrayal. They actually liked some Jedi like Aayla Secura and Yoda. But as the game points out, the main thing that drove them during Order 66 was the fear of consequence for disobeying. The army was their life. And treason was the worst thing they could imagine.
I generally agree with your take, but I disagree on your opinion as to why Filoni's depiction of the clones was bad. The clones should definitely have some kind of personality differences, and the EU certainly provided it. The thing that people don't understand is that the majority clones were raised primarily by Kaminoans and to a lesser degree by some mercenaries. The ARCs and Commandos would naturally have greater personalities by human standards since they spent more time amongst humans and were granted greater freedoms than regular clones, as you said, but Kaminoans don't lack personalities, but they seem, by human standards, incredibly cold and unsympathetic. Kaminoan culture would also generally be viewed as negative by most humans. As a result, clones should indeed have personalities, but these should be shaped by their Kaminoan creators and to a lesser extent by the Mandalorians and Republic depending on which generation of clone we are talking about. Just because the clones are genetically modified for greater obedience doesn't make them bee-like drones, and plenty of EU work suggests they have fears, downtime and can form connections. However, Filoni treated this as though this made the clones act like normal people, when it shouldn't, and past Season 2, he doesn't make them individualistic whatsoever, he just gives almost all of them the a similar moral compass to Rex and gives them very basic character archetypes like heavy gunner (Hevy, Wrecker, Hardcase), guy who follows the rules and regulations (Echo in his introductory episode, Tech, Crosshair for most of TBB S1 and some of S2, Fox, the clone assassins and commandos in TBB), the sassy/quiet guy, the grizzled commander (Cody, the sergeant from the Rookies episode, Rex at times and other random commanders in the series) etc. *TLDR the real problem with Filoni's treatment of the clones is that he made the clones super moral people rather than him giving them truly different personalities with real depth, which in reality, he doesn't outside of basic character archetypes that he constantly uses, and he didn't pay any attention to the fact that the clones were raised on Kamino despite his negative portrayal of Kaminoans.*
Solid comment, but Filoni still went overboard with their personalities and individualism. The tattoos and hair variations are more reminiscent of our contemporary culture and cheapens the entire lore in a vain effort to be 'relatable'.
@mstash5 That argument comes under my point that Filoni ignores the Kaminoan origin/culture of clones. Kaminoans have never been shown to act super personable, and they would probably abhor deviations like hair deviations, tatoos, and the like. Also, the clones are still in the military, and even IRL militaries have standards for the appearances of their soldiers. Such freedoms shouldn't be granted to literal slave soldiers of the Republic. IMO, if the clones were raised more by Mandalorians, it would be a tad more understandable, but the lore clearly suggests that the Kaminoans were doing their upmost to limit amicable interactions between clones and the mercenary trainers to prevent the clones from being too independent and aggressive. I think clones aggression and some minor sense of honour can be shown at some points, but the clones should generally speaking not be acting ridiculously friendly. I think the characterisation of Trooper Boil in TCW actually makes him one of the most accurate clone in the series. Boil was incredibly hesitant to help the Twilek girl and it took him a good while to gain an attachment to her, and at the start of the episode, he calls Twileks 'tail heads', showing the cold, disagreeable nature of clones from the EU. While I liked Waxer, I also understood that in the lore, he would have probably been terminated for his compassion earlier in his life, and the only way his character would work is as an anomalous clone who had been hiding his compassion up till that point. But, of course, in TCW, virtually every clone of significance is characterised like Waxer.
Before I watch this video I’m going to say that I thought the inhibitor chip storyline was well done, but unnecessary. It’s exactly the thing a show aimed at kids would do after several seasons of showing the clones as heroes when the writers suddenly remember how the clone wars end. No matter how well written the story arcs were concerning the chips, the entire idea is lazy and ham-handed. It’s the same as mind controlling the heroes so that they can do evil acts but be absolved of any responsibility. This conceit was doubly necessary when clones like Rex and Domino Squad proved popular enough to possibly carry forward into new media set after the clone wars. The PT, despite its many flaws, explicitly depicted the clones as engineered to follow orders without question (through a ligit chain of command). This included any standing orders like 66 and presumedly at least 65 other orders (there’s probably many hundreds of standing orders that are drilled into the clones throughout their training, or even implanted subconsciously while sleeping. If the clones were given orders that the Jedi were performing a coup and needed to be stoped, the incredibly disciplined soldiers of the GAR would not hesitate to eliminate their new enemies, no matter how well liked, no matter the emotional bond. And we see this in RotS, over and over. The only hesitation from any clone was due to caution in taking the Jedi unawares, knowing that taking a Jedi that was aware of an attack is suicide. So, ultimately, I do not like the inhibitor chips, but it’s canon so my opinion doesn’t matter. Just like how it’s canon that lightsabers, elegant and complex technological weapons, have great big honking irregularly shaped and uncut crystals jammed into their housings as their main beam focusing component or even their power source as well….its just…it’s just wrong.
I do not like the prequels but the 3D clone wars ruined the things I did like about them. I also hate the 3D clone wars because it completely obliterated the expanded universe. Also shcafrillas video is as* Also the 3D clone wars ruined the line in Republic commando about Delta squad being independent because the clones are not supposed to be independent so Delta squad being independent was supposed to be a big thing until the 3D clone wars ruined that
3:04 - 3:19 I don’t know about you but my little brother hated TCW no matter how much I tried to get him into it and he’s obsessed with Star Wars (we all are in my family). He used to call TCW “fake Star Wars” to mock me when I was watching it. I’m almost sure he never read a comic book in his life, or any novels, he’s only started getting into these old Star Wars books through audio of someone reading them on YT. When we saw the trailer for TFA, I was excited like almost everyone else on planet Earth but, the moment he say that cross guard lightsaber ignited he almost threw a tantrum. To this day I have never seen a 12 year old so disgusted and upset at a movie before even seeing it 😂
The biggest problem with the Prequels was the format. It was simply too big a story to be told in three movies, and this is where the EU came in clutch. It gave you the context and time to get to know the characters who were killed in Order 66. Stalin once said that one death is a tragedy, but a million is a statistic. The CWMMP turned those statistics into tragedies. What TCW stans fail to understand is that the show was trying to patch a hole in the story that had already been filled and painted over by previous material, resulting in a complete mess of a timeline. I think this guy isn't entirely without a point regarding Order 66 as shown in the movies, but he's ignorant about better stories that would resolve his issues with the movies just as well as TCW, if not more effectively, simply because the EU was overshadowed by the far more accessible TCW. And that may be Filoni's biggest crime against Star Wars, taking credit for the work done by the masterpiece he himself tore down and paved over.
@@jorgelacayo5688 Those films were so compressed and cut down that we weren't given the chance to pull back and get a sense of what was happening. Three two-and-a-half hour movies weren't enough to tell what was effectively a decade of complex galactic history, along with the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker, in the style of storytelling Lucas established for the Star Wars saga. Format was his worst enemy.
@@jaffarebellion292 I think a film maker such as Christopher Nolan or David Fincher or Dennis Villenueve could have done it. Again, just not Lucas. At least not by himself.
@@vetarlittorf1807 To be fair, Lucas directed 3 masterpieces in my eyes (THX 1138, American Graffiti and Star Wars 1977) and he was nominated for best director 2 times at the Oscars. He knows how to direct. I know he does. He was just very lazy with the prequels and they were made haphazardly because he was a CEO of a company (Lucasfilm) by then and had other priorities besides making "good cinema."
I'm still pro-inhibitor chips, just not the way they were introduced in TCW. I think they add a layer of redundancy to Palpatine's master plan, which makes more sense than simply trusting the Kaminoans' sales pitch.
Thats bullshit especially when its already established that they are genetically altered to BE obedient why would you place a Chip in it that IS very easy to remove?
The inhibitor chip was just an excuse to make clones lovable, capable of regret after being controlled by command, only because the creators didn’t want them to be fodder or cgi aid for attack of the clones. AND YET clones literally said “we’re meant to be expendable sir, we’re clones” The TRUE force of a clone would be to be bred to be a sleeper agent, work with the Jedi, endure duty, and yet in the end actually decide to not go along with it, while being a generous individual with a general or a civilian in peril. Not just a jerk with robot brains after season 7.
Since I’m at the siege bit and you haven’t brought it up. Maul taking over Mandalore is stupid as well. In the Filoni/ Disney logic a Jedi should been able to single handily stop the Mandalorians each war by challenging the leader. There would been a requirement to become the Mandalore you would be a Mandalorian.
I would like to add the republic commandos novles are great read. Also, bad batch was trash, and I hated how they treated the commandos. Filoni, imo, like to make his fanfic characters and shit on old legend characters.
While I understand your frustration since there is a lot of good in the expanded universe, most people, especially if they are fans of what was originally a movie franchise will prefer TV shows and movies to reading. I personally wish George Lucas would have made more TV shows and movies expanding the universe as opposed to just books. I was hoping he would was going to do another microseries much like Star Wars Clone Wars but bridging what happened with the larger Rebel Alliance between Episodes IV and V and Episodes V and VI. I gained my appreciation for the expanded universe by reading guidebooks, Wookiepedia articles, and watching videos about Star Wars Legends here on RUclips. I have not read a full expanded universe book or played any of the Knights of the Old Republic games.
The prequel haters are what led to the fall of the Star Wars Empire. The opinions of the haters led to George Lucas towards the Dark Side (Disney). Which betrayed everything he stood for destroying it. It mirrors the prequel themes perfectly, “it rhymes.”
12:30 not necessarily. Even in the old EU the regular clones had some independence. Its just that with a mix of training, being raised from birth for war, Jangos DNA, and genetic tampering, they were far more likely to not be independent in personality and just do their job and follow orders. Especially if they didnt have others to bring out more independent thought and personalities.
Not to piss anyone off. With the context of the books the video games RPG's the comics and nerds who loved everything Star Wars one can walk away not liking the Prequel trilogy. They are not the trash the sequel trilogy is I can watch the Prequel just for my taste I didn't care for the movies and I blame myself I was born in November of 77 my dad took me to Empire for my first movie. I built up in my head an impossible want that they couldn't live up to. But that's just me I wonder how many people are going to come at me for this.
I feel like the control chips were always a bad idea. Maybe they could have done a split personality, or a hypnotic command. As you pointed out, Cody clearly calls Sidious as the dark lord and the clones don't act like zombies. You could have had the "good clones" trying desperately to fight their mental demons.
I wonder if Filoni is aware that the character he wants to be Rex in RoTJ (aside from being a white guy while the clones are not) may actually have been killed at the start of the ground battle. A helmet less scout armour trooper lies on the ground, clearly dead. Since Filoni can't kill his characters he won't like that.
Filoni is a fraud. Of course Lucas is to blame for a lot of the wrong developments in TCW as well but Filoni's inability to let go really didn't help. In some way, he is a great representation of Anakin's flaws.
I will somewhat defend the *idea* of the chips if only because the clones were already established to have been genetically altered for a greater loyalty and to be more likely to follow orders without questions, Palpatine was known for an excess of contingency plans (so having a back up to the mental conditioning makes some sense to me), and that the clones were supposed to an organic mirror to the mindless waves of droids designed to die in massive quantities to further palpatine's plans, and droids having mechanical inhibitor chips is as old as the original movie. It's just the execution in general and the writers using it to defend their actions that sours the idea for me
Brainwashing IS fine but a chip that IS also very conviently easily to BE removed to save filonis Favorite OCs IS stupid AS hell. There shouldnt BE an Option to make that removeable at all
I'll be honest, I *like* the more independent and personable clones of TCW. I didn't know the older canon, so I'm used to them being that way, and I like it. But the inhibitor chips are a bad solution to that problem, and was poorly executed as well. Even in TCW, the Jedi show themselves to have a poor grasp of tactics and strategy, and to basically feed the clones mostly into meat grinders. It would be very easy to explain that the clones came to distrust and hate the jedi over the course of their war for absolute incompetence. Most of the clones aren't going to hang around their jedi any more than your average soldier gets to see *their* generals, and "the enlisted hate their officers" is a pretty common trope in military fiction. Clones that know and like their jedi generals would be the exception, not the rule. Inhibitor chips do technically solve the issue of independent clones, but if the inhibitor chips work and don't damage the clone's combat ability (and no such effect is ever described) then why not have them on the whole war (which just brings us back to original canon)
Yeah, I can buy both the more independent and personable clones of TCW as well as them simply being so indoctrinated that the large majority would follow Order 66 without needing chips.
Yk what makes the Empire look even more authoritarian? Indoctrinating children from birth to despise their enemies, rather than stupidly making the clones independent and then suddenly having them betray the jedi because of a switch.
Clone wars was dope. You don't have to look at things so black a white... If you enjoyed the comics / novels that's fine. But most people will never get into that, and the show is good in its own right. And that's an understatement.... I didn't even know who Dave falonie was when I started watching TCW... And I still like the 2003 version in its own Right, there both good .... Iv turned my back of star wars tho, iv turned to the Horus heresy series for my lore fix... I'm done supporting something I'm alienated from and being treated with contempt form Disney.
TCW is not well written in its own write it doesn't fix the films nor does it flesh out the world or characters well since it's an anthology early on reducing people like Dooku to generic villain or what they did to maul.
This entire video is the epitome of “NORMIES! REEEEE!” complete with the vocal lisp and needless hostility. “That’s stupid” and “everyone’s stupid” isn’t an argument bro. Constantly excusing criticism of the prequels because OTHER PIECES OF MEDIA made it make more sense isn’t a good argument either. And I’m someone who likes the prequels so you can’t just cry “prequel hater” either. The fact is, needing to have seen secondary media for something to make sense or have the same impact means that it wasn’t planned that well. If someone needs to have read all the comics and books to appreciate your movie, you’ve made a poor movie. They’re not stupid for not knowing what isn’t shown in the piece of media they’re watching. You say the clones aren’t shown much because the story isn’t about them but when a major, if not THE major plot development hinges on the audience understanding why they’re doing something then yeah, it should be shown. A single line from a salesperson about how they’re perfectly obedient WHILE the camera is on a clone that appears to be not mindlessly obedient doesn’t cut it. The clones were never shown to be thinking feeling people in the movies but they never shown to be perfectly obedient soldiers *either.* So when your average audience member sees them on screen creatively taking down droids with heroic sounding music, they’re going to think “oh yeah these are the good guys and there’s more to them than just faceless mindless grunts.” Order 66 without the chips does not make any sense for anyone who’s served in the military, and it doesn’t make sense for the Jedi. These people who are shown to be wise and can sense intangible unease in the universe just never get a bad vibe from these guys for years and then the vast majority of them get jumped? All because some dude told them to? Every clone was given a little pamphlet on all their orders but the Jedi just… never knew about that 66th one? And you can’t say “well only a select few clones knew” because that’s not true and we see normal clones take part in the order. Meaning ALL the clones knew somehow but the plan never leaked to the Jedi. To your average viewer this sounds absolutely ridiculous, and they shouldn’t be expected to have done *homework* for it not feel ridiculous. At least with the chips the idea that the Jedi could be genuinely surprised passes the suspension of disbelief for your average viewer. If all these changes you so vehemently despise were as objectively bad as you thought. George Lucas as executive producer wouldn’t have let them happen. It’d be one thing if he was completely out of the picture, but he wasn’t. So he clearly thought the changes were good or at least tenable.
AOTC doesn't really feel heroic, most of scenes of clones are in a "fog of war" motive. The rescue LAAT uses Death Star-like lasers, this is just normal visual cues.
Why do I get the feeling that if they did give some backstory/scenes to those Jedi seen killed during Order 66 in the movies, the prequel haters will just add "The movies are giving attention to these 'no names' and then kill them off, taking away more from the main story of Anakin" as a criticism? But seriously, the 501st Journal was all that was needed.
Not that im saying i perfer the chips, but even in the case where thr clones are genetically programmed to be less independent, they are still functioning and intelligent human beings that can make decisions on their own and come to their own conclusions. In tcw canon, it would make sense that something like the chip exists to cover all bases.
I don't particularly care for Schaffrillas but this seems weirdly and unnecessarily targeted. Like it's fine to think inhibitor chips are dumb but this feels more like an excuse to launch a personal attack at someone for no reason other than because you disagree about something in a kid's show.
If you watch a bit deeper, Schaff also dunks on aspects of the prequels unnecessarily But yeah the title needs to be changed, but that's a problem with RUclips as a whole, unfortunately. The title alone kind of misleads the vid's main point which counters various points Schaff made
Yo mr plagiarisms, what did you think of Son of Dathomir, Crystal Crisis on Utapau and some of those other cancelled arcs? (Me personally they are pretty much as retcon and canon breaking as the rest of tcw, especially crystal crisis but they probably would've been the most "enjoyable" arcs to watch from what I've seen)
You know, when I was younger, I despised the Filoni clone wars show, having read a lot of the books. I thought inhibitor chips were stupid, the show retconned so many things it didn’t fit in canon, and Ahsoka was an annoying, invincible OC. Then I sort of second guessed myself and tried to open my mind to TCW and related projects. But after seeing the sad excuse of Thrawn in rebels, a Death Star laser firing B-wing, and Ahsoka avoiding certain death for the SECOND time in Rebels, I went back to look at TCW again. I didn’t love what I saw. Then the Ahsoka show cemented this in my mind: my younger self was RIGHT. Filoni is a terrible writer when he is left to his own devices, and TCW is the most overrated project in Star Wars.
I love The Clone Wars. I really do. But christ on a bike, the inhibitor chips are really dumb. Not a fan of them and that Palps is speedrunning to replace the clones in The Bad Batch is just dumb aswell. I like Legends more in that regard were the Stormtrooper Corps did consist of both clones (of various templates) and recruited personnel. It's commonly said now to "let them cook" but I would argue that Filoni has been overcooking his involvement with Star Wars.
I was scrolling through this guy's channel, and he made a video saying why the Last Jedi worked at redeeming a hero over Endgame. It's a video that's 5 years old, but for the love of God, respond to it.
in regards to him not understanding order 66, it appears to me that he has the psychopathy of rationalism, or at the very least has his heart closed off to this aspect of reality regarding the meaning of 'jedi'. the jedi are the shining order which stands between all life and total darkness, any of them dying is sad because you understand the widespread effects of the loss of that shining light, immense widespread suffering and death of those who they protect and serve. the jedi are those ideal beings who sacrifice worldly attachments in order to become more than who they are and protect and serve all life. if you dont have an emotional appreciation of someone because they are a jedi, then you are missing a piece of the puzzle of life. any loss of life is tragic, all suffering is grievous, the death of the jedi order collectively is a symbol of the destruction of common good, the destruction of wisdom, the destruction of love, and life, and liberty across the entire galaxy. you dont need to know these characters as individuals to emotionally understand whats happening in the scene, and the fact he doesnt get it shows hes lacking the emotional understanding of that aspect of life. however at the very least he could if he was so inclined read the comics and books and develop an individual knowledge of each character.
It is so obvious the reason the clones were given any characterization was because kids thought they were cool. TCW was made specifically for children despite having a few “adult” elements. The decision to put in the inhibitor chips was solely to remove culpability from the clones during order 66. Filoni decided that kids couldn’t handle the idea that the “characters” they followed through multiple season could be capable of accepting that soldiers could chose country/the republic over “friends”/the Jedi. Apparently he was right.
Grew up with clone wars show will always have a special place in my heart for it but there are other things that did the clone wars better like the first cartoon and how they did grevous
I agree with the most of the points. But I really don't think its that bad. Of course it retconed Republic, but since now its Leyends and Legends is its own continuity, doesn't have to deal with TCW's contradictions in the same continuity, I don't think its that bad. (Just not good)
The thing is TCW is still officially part of the Legends timeline. Which is something prequel haters tend to use as an argument saying "See? The EU didn't make sense and TCW had to make sense of all of it". Despite the fact that TCW was the sole reason the EU's continuity started to become convoluted.
If you want more context on my stance, check out these videos:
Clone Wars Season 6 Review - ruclips.net/video/P1jcOKzBhrc/видео.html
Clone Wars Season 7 Review - ruclips.net/video/aaZB5gSL-JM/видео.html
How Clone Troopers ACTUALLY Work - ruclips.net/video/aQeFPeHggow/видео.html
Also, I've been contributing to a Wiki created by one of my peers, that aims to remove TCW from the face of the Earth - star-wars-ccanon.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars_C-Canon_Wiki
I remember listening to the revenge of the sith novelization and being so confused when it mentioned battles not shown in the clone wars when it mentioned anakin not having fought dooku since geonosis when so many things were different than in tcw then looking at the micro series and listening to labrinth of evil I didn't understand why tcw was different that's when I discovered the republic comics and watched a video called why the clone wars doesn't fit in legends by captain fordo I watched part 1 and part 2 in part 2 he broke down every book tcw retcons character changes retcons to the movies and video games and so much more I was shocked I was always so confused why stuff didn't add up or make sense or some stupid plot points or all the jedi being weak especially the high council when they are supposed to be the strongest and why mace windu was portrayed as a jerk and arrogant.I also didn't understand why yoda basically saw order 66 and said nothing at all or why in other novels their were no chips why it said in attack of the clones they were genetically modified to follow order if that was the case why add chips to.I also didn't understand anakin's personality change and why he was knighted so quickly after what he did in attack of the clones it was all so confusing and when I finally watched that video I understood I love the clone wars I still do it's got a lot of problems but I find it funny especially anakin and obi wans banters and I like ashoka but it's just not canon and it's no way it can fit and like captain fordo said it should be removed from legends wookiepedia is al messed up trying to tie everything together when tcw retcons everything and it's sad that we couldn't get the true clone wars in all it's brutal and sad goodness. I also would like to add that it was George Lucas who changed darth bane supposedly they could be lying about it but a lot of sources say he changed him. and I really would like some books to be changed to change some writing references things in tcw like in darth plagueis on how palpatine got maul listening to that it sounded of and forced I still don't understand how tcw and and the clone wars in the books was canon at the same time when tcw retconned everything and the workers had to try and do damage control and make books for it to fit in when it just didn't it's sad to see how disney rips of the eu and does not give credit where credit is due like with dave filonis tales of the jedi it was announced just months after the original creator died he ripped of the name to the very detail on how the name appears rips of how the name is on the cover of the book the same color and title even in some books I can just hear how they pulled lines from eu and ripped it of changed the wording around but I can remember which book it comes from honestly I was shocked how much disney ripped of the eu and claimed it wasn't canon this how you know they got no creativety when they can't come up with their own characters without ripping them of from the eu and it's really sad to see how some fans don't understand and call other fans the fandom menace iv seen so many videos echoeing statements that disney and Kathleen Kennedy and other actors have said about fans being racist homophobic bigots or don't like women or diversity and I honestly don't understand why they keep using same arguments over and over they just won't accept something being bad grown adults not being able to own up to their own failings even more so I hate it when actors return to do disneys work or eu writers just cave in and write for disney some leave like karen traviss and it's really sad to see these peoples works being thrown under the rug and copied but not given the respect and deserve and how disney makes the eu out to be messy when disney can't even keep their own canon straight dave filoni retconned the ashoka novel with the siege of mandalore and the obi wan kenobi show retconned the obi wan kenobi books only slightly pulling from it not to mention depa billaba died at night not during the day it's laughable how many times disneys retconned their own stuff but wan't to call the eu uncoordinated. sorry this is long im ranting cuz it's so damn frustrating.😢😢
Honestly The Actual Clones Relation/Reaction towards Betraying the Jedi would be like In The Incredibles 2 Scene(Regardless of Film’s Quality the scene is an Astute example) Hellen: Why would you count on me? Because I built you a bike? Because my brother knows the words to your theme song? We don't know each other!
Elastigirl: But you can count on me anyway.
Evelyn Deavor: I'm supposed to, aren't I? Because you have some strange abilities and a shiny costume, the rest of us are supposed to put our lives into your gloved hands.
@SQUIDBEARSTUDIO that is such an awesome quote
@@tk-6967I know. Regardless of what the film’s Quality is to be judged.
@j.j.plagiarisms7149 Could you now do take on ruclips.net/video/-a7x5N2eVFE/видео.htmlsi=ymRCHGQ_S4c-UbIR I highly recommend learning about this guy and his “understandings” Of Star Wars.
Schaff doesn't seem to look into the EU martial tied to the movies. Also, I'm a bit surprised that people like him complained about the prequel era Jedi being under developed when the Rebel leaders like General Jan Dodonna, Mon Mothma, and Admiral Ackbar were given a pass.
Look in to it more like doesn't want to mention it. Schaff definitely does know about the EU because in his majora's mask video he mentions how they didn't make Luke overpowered as an example of subversion of expectations. Which is misconception made by people who use as a excuse on why the EU was bad.
@@SergioLopez-eb6fz Or, in another words, he knows shit about the EU! Because everyone who actually had read at least one material of the EU about Luke and his grown as a Jedi Knight and Master, knows how hard was for him to became as powerful as he became, how many beloved people related to him died in his life, and how much struggles he had with the darkside and with the burden of being the last of the old Jedi and the first of the new Jedi at the same time! The Old Marvel comics and the Thrawn trilogy, for examples, shows us how unconfident he was at the start of his journey as the new seed of the Jedi Order!
But, this misconception amount of "knowledge" about the franchise as a whole is expected from these Disney chills, unfortunately...
@@SergioLopez-eb6fzLuke wasn't always a super powered jedi. Even in his later days he's was always unsure and struggled , questioned if he was doing the right thing, and his moments of extreme power were always under extreme stress. Luke's great power was not turning to darkside , especially when he allowed himself to become the apprentice to a clone of Palpatine. They have literally no idea what tgey are talking about, making Luke a weirdo, blue milk drinking asshat was a serious disrespect to the character, as his character was always maintaining hope no matter what, even scared or doubtful he choose hope each and everytime, and he never told anyone such things he said to Rey in that movie, it was anti Luke behavior
@@beentheredonethat5908 I know I'm just saying that was a misconception that is really big problem that Disney Canon fans just say for the sake of doubling down on the EU. Even if they had not read a single EU book in their life and just follow the popular narrative that people say.
He literally said Favreau and Filoni were the first ones to have a chance of "doing something" with Boba Fett, totally ignoring the EU. Yeah, he knows very little of SW in general.
Reminder that even if you like the Show, the real impactful Ending would have been Ahsoka being shot in the Back by Rex and then the Show just cutting to black.
Just a Sapranos ending.
Either that or her ending Rex and then dying to Vader (screw rebels season 4)
Would've been the ending if Filoni didn't disobey Lucas' wishes.
GODDAMN DUDE THAT'S THE MOST SAVAGE THING I'VE EVER READ
NOW THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN UNFORGETTABLE....
I never really got why people liked ahsoka so much, Dave filoni created a 14 yr old in a tube top and mini skirt so people have a reason to watch the show.
The Darth Plagues Novel covers the clones backstory and the idea of their creation wonderfully when the Sith were seeing them as a possible perfect army for the Grand Plan. Plagues even initially wanted them to not be human but Yinchorri, but that didn't pan out for various reasons. Thus, after some brainstorming, humans were determined to be the ideal species of the army.
The inhibitor chips were a mistake. I love the way he brought up The Bad Batch, as that show completely undermines the chips and how they function, by having some clones just randomly be able to resist it and start rebelling against the Empire. That was the show that made me start to realise just how bad this version of Order 66 was by comparison. It just serves to highlight why the chips were such a bad idea, because the second they randomly stop working, a whole bunch of the clones turn on Palpatine immediately and start undermining his rule. If the clones were depicted as they were in the old canon, then they would never have been able to turn on Palpatine, Kanan and Ahsoka would never have escaped, and the Sith plan would have gone off as intended, bar Obi Wan and Yoda's survival.
Why would Palpatine risk having the clones form strong bonds with their jedi commanders, and rely on a chip being able to completely override their free will, when he could just breed the clones to hate the jedi and follow orders without question from day 1? The chances of an inhibitor chip failing are way higher than the chances of a clone being defective enough to disobey orders, and actually wanting to help the jedi. We even see that one chip breaking almost derailed Palpatine's entire plan. If the jedi weren't so stupid in TCW, they'd have been able to figure out what was coming and stop it before it ever happened.
Also, Dave Filoni, once again, couldn't even be consistent with the stupid nonsense he himself established. TCW established that the clones couldn't resist the inhibitor chips, and were forced to obey orders, then The Bad Batch immediately shows clones refusing to obey the Empire's orders. Rex was barely able to resist the chip for a few seconds, but clones like Howzer can just decide they don't like what the Empire is doing and defect? They never even bothered to try and explain how that was possible, not that it would have made much sense if they had. I can't wait for you to rip into The Bad Batch. That show was so bad that it made TCW look good by comparison.
They probably played battlefront 2 and liked the idea it had where some clones rebelled i guess or they didnt wanna kill off rex
To quote my one irl friend: I don't know about a batch... but they sure ARE bad!
The funniest Thing about that all IT makes the stormtroopers way more competent soldiers than the filoni Clones, despite being human,No decades Long brainwashing and Training, the stormtroopers obey Orders, are effective and are willing to die for the cause. The Clones should BE that ON kamino steroids but somehow filoni Made them so incompent soldiers that the filoni Clones are Just slightly better conscripts
Naht they were a good decision really. Nah that show just isn't written well, how it was done in TCW is well written, Bad Batch is a outlier really. No the chips weren't a bad idea, except they don't randomly stop working they've been clearly tested. Eh no there would be some that deny the orders really, there will always be exceptions.
I mean when they hang out with the Jedi and see what they are really like then clearly after years they wouldn't all hate the jedi, with the chip it means when they betray the jedi all suddenly then it will be quicker and none of them will hesitate on their own and the jedi will have their guard done with their relationship and trust with the clones and will swiftly be killed. No the chances of a clone disobeying orders when they still somewhat have a mind of their own is much higher then the chances of an inhibitor chip ever failing. Yeah only one and even then it was a needle in a heystack it was the only defective one which yeah it makes sense as the chips were clearly throughly tested really. Nah they weren't stupid in TCW at all but they weren't able to figure out what was coming and stop it before it ever happened as they didn't have enough info to figure it all out and they didn't have much time at that point either.
He was consistent with it in TCW though and it isn't stupid nonsense. Well yeah TCW is good really.
The Clones need to be unaware of their mission otherwise the Jedi would immediately sense their hateful intent upon meeting them. The Clones need to fail because the Empire needs a reason to replace this army that was presented as The Perfect Army™️ in the AOTC.
I forgot how much the clones hated the jedi for the death at geonosis.
Also favorite thing Cody says is basically, Damn wish you told me this before I just gave him his lightsaber back.
Yeah, that's a great line.
Wait he actually says that?! I thought that was a meme
@@013wolfwarrior ROTS novel.
The novel Dark Lord The Rise of Darth Vader covered the clones and the Jedi great. It showed the working relationship they had, but also showed that the regular clones just didn't have the independence to question orders or think beyond their mandate, as only a commando squad, which were the only clones bred with more of Jango's independence as it was needed for missions, were able to question it
Ion team disobeyed order 66
Also the Thing with the commandos they didnt dissobeyed because they thought It was morally questionable but they expected a CIS Plot and they warned Roman shryne they would kill him the next time they See him
Still have this story as an audio story. Still one of my favorite early-empire stories.
"People like TCW because they don't know any better" this is something that I always thought. The 2003 Clone Wars, the Republic comics, Republic Commando game and the rest of the multimedia project are SOOOOO much better materials.
Yes agreed
Dude no. 2003 clone wars was awful. Shit was only Star Wars by appearance alone.
@@zzodysseuszz 2003 clone wars was great
@@zzodysseuszz general Grevious from 2003 vs 2008.
Case closed.
@@zzodysseuszz you are _utterly_ wrong.
Its fascinating to me how people just ignore the Multimedia Project but make such definitive claims about TCW
That's because more people watched and grew up with TCW, so it is easier to say that they’re more fans of TCW than of Star Wars.
Most are simply ignorant.
Reading is hard for some. Also, the shadows of the empire multimedia project walked so the clone wars multimedia project could run.👍
This retcon legit ruins the clones. And it only exists so Filoni can save his oc characters.
But this retcon was PART of George's vision. And it makes far more sense that 'blind obedience' because life itself doesn't work that way. Conditioning degrades over time, and they fought for several years.
@@colvamoon6962 This is not real life, this is a ficcional work! And even in real life, soldiers blindly obeying an authority actually happens, because brainwash is something that really exists! Now imagine this but with soldiers made on laboratory and programmed genetically to being less independent than a normal human being (episode II, made by George Lucas, stablished that, without any kind of inhibitor chips' bullshit).
@@colvamoon6962
Thats just cope. Makes no sense either. Normal soldiers would have obeyed order 66. No question clones genetically created to obey orders would as well, especially since they always knew it was coming.
TCW appologists can cope it was Lucas vision. Bottom line, George said the movies are his only cannon. George said he was stepping away. Final 2 seasons of clone wars were released under Disney. TCW isnt legends its disney cannon.
Stop coping.
@dnaseb9214 no, normal soldiers wouldn't. Tell me, you're a soldier, who's been fighting alongside your commanding officers for 3-4 years. You get a call from the commander in chief, telling you to execute your officer for treason. And you DONT double check? And conditioning like the clones degrades over time, much like erosion.
Again, George made this retcon so explain why none of the clones double checked. If you don't like it, then that's YOUR decision, but facts don't care about your feelings.
@@darthlucasfuu funny, because brainwashing can degrade over time. Same with conditioning.
So, you mean to tell me that, if a creator says something, he can't be allowed to retcon or expand upon it when he has a better idea? Better tell that to Tolkien.
Rex recognizing Palpatine as Sidious made me 🤢 despite not having had any idea of the EU at the time. And yes, the Kanan comic story is far better than baloney's...
"What I remember about the rise of the Empire is... is how quiet it was. During the waning hours of the Clone Wars, the 501st Legion was discreetly transferred back to Coruscant. It was a silent trip. We all knew what was about to happen, what we were about to do. Did we have any doubts? Any private, traitorous thoughts? Perhaps, but no one said a word. Not on the flight to Coruscant, not when Order 66 came down, and not when we marched into the Jedi Temple. Not a word."
"With the fall of Coruscant and the elimination of the traitorous Jedi, Palpatine's rise to power was complete. In recognition of our service and loyalty to the Emperor, the 501st were placed under the direct command of Lord Vader. Armed with deadly new weapons, blazing new ships, and shiny new armor, our presence let the galaxy know that the days of the Old Republic were well and truly over. We were establishing a new era, an era of order and peace." This is my Bible quote...it was first and shall always be the lore...good soldiers followed orders to the grave. Not droid slaves to chips in their brain
"To this day, I can't understand what motivated our creators to rise up against us. Had they gone mad? Have we failed them in some way? In the end, really didn't matter. The Kaminoians had to be stopped and their army of traitorous gene cousins destroyed. The first few kills were the hardest. After all, it’s hard not to get a little spooked when the enemy screams with your voice....We shook it off and did our job. Most of the troopers never knew about Kamino. Like a lot of things in the Empire, it never really happened."
This is what the chip defenders fail to understand about why dictators get what they want. It's the fear of consequence of disobeying a direct order.
battlefront 2005 still best battlefront and better than EA battlefront
A better soldier knows when to refuse them.
@MrAwesomeSolos with hindsight, yeah, but at that moment and the propaganda of the chancellor (and the psyco coding and the kamonoins participation) plus the hatred of the jedi for killing so many brothers (if you wanna add personality to all of them)
Sheev Talks also defended the inhibitor chips. That was the one take I disagreed with when he criticized TCW.
That would be so fun.
I brought up a few points on that video including how inhibitor chips would basically make the OT impossible since there’s no reason why most of the galaxy, never mind most of the military, wouldn't be chipped if they existed.
@@Lobsterwithinternet True. At the very least, Imperial deserters like Han Solo would've never deserted, since Palpatine could've just had the chips implanted during their training.
Sheev talk stated he only used sourced materials from fixed media canon and legends, then process to used Legends materials to defend why inhibitor chips.
Also igrone the multi media project the Force Unleash is, that the game are rule cool gameplay and will take great liberty for player engagement vs reading the book which ground TFU to Movies. Also that Starkiller is very weak compared to fighting other force users and has to think smartly to fight back.
Great double strandards Sheev got. Also he made a video complain how star wars doesn't tackle heavy subject seriously when the inhibitor chips are basically just let clone being controlled by evil instead of the fact they been indoctrinated their entire life.
@@bloodysimile4893 Yeah, that was when he tried to argue that since clone commandos in the book _Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader_ were able to disobey Order 66 that all clones could disobey Order 66 and the chips were necessary. But he ignored the fact that special forces clones like commandos, ARC Troopers and Null Troopers were specifically bred to be more independent than regular clones. And in that same book, only the clone commandos disobey Order 66 as the rest just go along with it without question and were even willing to throw their lives away in human wave attacks just to get at the commandos and the Jedi they were protecting.
Just to play devil’s advocate, he was talking specifically about Disney’s tv shows like BoBF and The Acolyte.
38:33 "It's the showdown we've all been desperate to see." Nah, it was a completely pointless fight with no stakes whatsoever, because we knew both those characters survive unscathed.
I like Schaff, but yeah he has his fair share of bad takes.
He's not the worst critic in the world, I'll say that much.
@@j.j.plagiarisms7149i mean, you did talk about cosmo recently so
Yeah bro liked TLJ. I didn't care for him after that
Yeah tbf I find his videos and rankings really entertaining but I disagree with some of his star wars takes, especially with the prequels
Intended final arc?
You mean the arc that tried to say that Bozo-Katan was just misunderstood for selling her people out to human supremacists? And that her turning her back on Deathwatch was a last minute change of heart and NOT her being butthurt that the dude she was simping for lost to a non-human?
Ironically I think that this is how the stormtroopers should have been written. The clones are written how the storm troopers should have been written and the other way around, ironically cross hair in season 2 of the bad batch was acting more like an actual clone trooper because when they took out his inhibitor chip he was still hunting down the the bad batch.
No. It is not how Imperial Stormtroopers should be written.
Star Wars Republic > TCW
clone wars multimedia project >>>>>>> TCW
They definitely should made an television animated show who adapted, page to page, the Republic comics, instead of TCW... The CWMMP as a whole has plenty of really great and deep stories who could became a masterpiece of a show, like OG Clone Wars was.
@@darthlucasfuuagreed, also animating books like the Thrawn Trilogy and New Jedi Order would be 🔥🔥🔥
@@dang3rousdamian743 Now we're talking! 🔥
New Jedi Order is Star Wars peak! I love that series! 🔥
Series that should have an animated adaptation:
Republic (Jedi Council: Acts of War, Jedi and Obsession included), Legacy (2006, War and 2013), OG Marvel Comics (these comics are a surprise to be sure, but a welcome one), the New Jedi Order (the most massive and subversive one, in a good way, series of all), the Thrawn trilogy (the comic adaptation was a good way to visualize the whole scenes, and it's style should be maintained), Dark Empire trilogy (an RUclipsr is already making it, when I get his name I will edit this comment and credite him for sure), the Hands of Thrawn duology (basically Luke and Mara romantic story that culminated on their eventual married in "Union"), Tales of the Jedi (Knights of the Old Republic to Redemption, and Golden Age of the Sith to Fall of the Sith Empire ones too), and Crimson Empire.
All of that are really good ones, I simply love it!
(Surely has many many others who deserves as much as that ones, but they're the ones I read yet 😅)
*Edit*
@SpikeyTortoise is the man who is making Dark Empire animated series
2003 Clone Wars > TCW
That quote by Bacara (who holds the highest Clone rank) + the Galactic Marines entire getup is why he's my favorite clone.
By the way, that single shot of the Galactic Marines shows that the Clones DO have "personality". The kind they SHOULD have, regimental designations, regimental colors, regimental brotherhood... not the 'personality' of a bunch of soul searching uni students.
(For the record, I'm not a fan of the Prequels in general, but I am a fan of CWMP and especially the Microseries).
The inhibitor Chip is such a stupid idea. It ruined every potential for complex storytelling.
We should definitely get a top 10 Star wars games that are now considered "legends".
Star wars bounty hunter & Star wars Republic commando should be high up there
for me
1. Knight of the Old Republic
2. Knight of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords
3. Battlefront II 2005
4. Republic Commando
5. Revenge of the Sith The Video Game
6. Bounty Hunter
7. Battlefront 2004
8. Jedi Outcast
9. Jedi Academy
10. The Force Unleashed
@@xxcaptninjaxx4301I could guess you liked KOTOR by the pfp lol, no hate
I probably spent hundreds of hours playing Empire At War's multiplayer.
The whole CW went from being a SW cartoon to Filoni cartoon literally at the start. Lucas originally wanted Tartakovsky to be the head of the animation part, but Tartakovsky knew that then he can't do anything else. Filoni came after and as for now, you see, everything has became a bunch of Member Berries.
2:53 Honestly, Big Brother is more intelligent that Baloney Filoni will ever be.
This guy's argument (Schaffrillas Productions) is like saying Young Shelton saved the Big Bang Theory. If you have a series that is made after the original series. (The original series being seen as bad) then because of the prequal series (which is made after the main series, such as Young Shelton being created after Big Bang Theory, which somehow makes the original series good in retrospect) then it's Revisionism, Prequal Haters are Revisionists, either love something or hate it for what it is. That's just what I think.
@@randomramblings2325 I do think YS is better than TBBT though. Mostly because YS doesn't have a laugh track and doesn't reinforce stereotypes. Also Missy's sass.
So, I'm only twelve minutes in, but if i remember correctly, there are clones in the Legends Universe that *do not* like Jedi.
This (as a combat veteran) actually stuck with me more and felt more impactful from a viewer standpoint. Because the idea that the clones (who have fought and seen countless comrades die in a war they barely understand, were brainwashed to wage, and have (according to Republic law toward clones) have *zero stakes in* ) looking at the Jedi as "do-gooders" and essentially "priests, ministering in the bowels of hell" is far more interesting to me, and it's interesting in how it makes the clones, ironically, have more agency than the inhibitor chip thing. While i get the idea that some clones would like and respect the Jedi, anyone who is or knows "meat eaters" in the military, paramilitary, or police world might understand that plenty of clones would get tired of their rhetoric and ideals. Even when the Jedi can do the impossible, that makes their resentment more interesting, as *they* never pay for overoptimistic or unqualified command decisions. The genius of Palpatine's plan, as I see it, is that he basically "trains clones to love the state, but to despise its ancestral protectors" simply because a Jedi says "don't blow up that village," leads their clones in, gets dozens of clones killed, saves two civilians, and smiles and backslaps about a job well done.
Again, I'm not arguing that every clone would or should hate the Jedi, but it makes them, as fighting men in a brutal, bloody war, more human and understandable when (in my mind) at least 20% would hate them, 30-40% would be negative (but short of loathing) and the rest would shift between bewilderment and near-reverential support. War is the ultimate corrosive agent for propaganda, after all, so long as one is living it. You can't eat "republic good" or replace an empty magazine with rhetoric, so I personally believe the clones would "grow up" during the war and gradually develop their own opinions as *men* , not "wet droids" or "biological machines."
All this speaks to what I always head-cannoned as Sheev's greatest achievement. The Republic doesn't have an army for a good reason, and the Jedi are like "inquisitors" in the Catholic Church, without the ethical overtones associated with that term. But, by forcing the republic into a position where an army was necessary, the men who fill the ranks would gradually come to resent or at least feel bewildered astonishment at what are essentially "space wizards."
So, if O66 was just clones getting a dicey order, some believing in it, others not, but *everyone* knowing its down to them and their brothers, I feel like the messaging and theme of the PT is far better than it is with "i press button = you become bad boi."
Great comment. Should be pinned.
This is what I think people forget about the CW. The Jedi WHERE NOT GENERAL. Often times their actions and frontal assault styled bit a lot of clones killed.
While he is a Filoni Creation a character like Pong Krell and how they directed/lead battles would be more akin to how most Jedi fought (minus the evilness).
It was literally only Obiwan and Anakin that lead their troops decently well.
@@Gdsryrox that's not entirely true, as you would know if you read the original Clone Wars timeline from the Multimedia Project. Not every Jedi besides Kenobi and Skywalker were bad commanders.
There was a lot of nuance to the Jedi serving as generals.
@@mstash5 for what it’s worth, I see Jedi who were good commanders as a byproduct of beneficial happenstance and luck more than anything else.
To be clear, this isn’t me disagreeing with you or anything you said, but I thought it was interesting that you mentioned it.
Because, if we take the PT at face value (and even many/most aspects of the clone wars as a medium, regardless of source) the idea that the Jedi even *should* be good at generalship is crazy.
This, to me (with a hefty dose of “face-valuing” instead of subtext analysis) makes Palpatines plan even better. Because he’s basically taking a critical, spiritual, institution of the Republic (I’d say it’s fair, if a bit of a stretch to compare the Jedi to the Catholic Church in medieval times) and putting it in an impossible position.
As mace windu once said, “we’re keepers of the peace, not soldiers.”
Yet, despite that, these men and women of peace, these diplomats, lawmen, and spiritual guardians of the republic, are tarnished by the touch of war. I once mentioned to a friend that “anakin is a good general because he’s a bad Jedi.” While this take is hardly innovative, I hope it encapsulates my point.
Palpatines deconstruction of the Republic, be that on a writing level or an “simulated reality” level, is as impressive in a technical sense as it is terrifying in an ethical one. Because he starts with the soul, he starts by eroding the foundations of the system, and when he’s done, emergency powers, nationalizing corporate entities, and so on are essentially forgone conclusions.
This, again, is why I liked the pre-inhibitor lore, as it directly poses a challenge to fans about how tyranny works and how it dismantles systems by perverting them, corrupting them, and erasing the collective belief and hope for liberty as a tangible solution to life’s many problems.
And I suppose that’s what bothers me most about the inhibitor chip thing; it steals agency from characters and presents tyranny as an almost primal force, not something that was fed, fostered, and protected by the willing, even if they were “only clones” of a mandalorian (I’m not buying the “jango isn’t a mando” retcon) bounty hunter.
I believe the main point of contention is that on their own, the movies are a self-contained bubble. Whichever way we spin it, supplementary material does not "patch", "fix" or "recontextualize", as strictly-speaking, they are distinct from their source material.
Taking it as an extended, multimedia narrative however, Schalffrillas' assertions fall apart.
It's just simple rationale: One version gives the characters agency, and the other takes it away. Which implies more depth and nuance?
Dave Filoni never understood Star Wars.
JJ Plagiarisms. I know you're a smart guy and I commend you for spreading knowledge. But I am worried that you're channel has become a Star Wars equivalent to Steven Anderson's RUclips ministry. What concerns me is your quick rush to publicly judge and degrade people who have different views from you. Now, I admit some of the people you villainize actually deserve it. But now like Steven Anderson, you're getting angry at people who probably aren't as horrible as you think they are. You're acting as if you're better smarter person with your only defense is, "I know more." Have you tried to communicate with these people you disagree with privately before making a negative video about them? If not, then I advice you to restrain from childish name calling.
Seconded.
Facts
It still frustrates that the wrong people act like an authority when they are grossly unqualified, but yeah, I think you're right.
@@j.j.plagiarisms7149 I understand you. But again, be careful because some of the people you're dissing aren't trying to be high & mighty or competing for glory. Just don't be a hypocrite when talking about how one person is evil, lazy, uneducated or unqualified. Because I know about your past in those Discord chats and whay you said. I have people who I have huge disagreements with. In some of those times it resulted them calling me a monster because I wasn't "educated" like them. Only one called me to apologize because when we met again in university I was cordial, I smiled, I wasn't mean, and I guided her to a location that she was going to because she was heading the opposite way. She was surprised on how despite her calling me vile names the last time we talked, I was still kind to her when most people in her life didn't.
My thoughts exactly
I hated the chip introduction. It's much more impactful that the clones follow order 66 because it their loyalty to the Republic and Sidious, and it makes it more meaningful to the clones who chose to ignore it and help their Jedi. Most clones would of hated the Jedi because they were unfit to be soldiers because their dogma and ideals would get more troops killed, the jedis refusal (bar a few) to do what needs to be done for victory would breed alot of hate and contempt.
Way more compelling than "Har, har you bad now because I click chip."
Good soldiers follow orders, great ones know when to refuse them.
"A SOLDIER follows orders, but a warrior, follows his HEART." - Joseph Turok
Ah, Schaffrillas, one of the most convoluted when it comes to Star Wars criticism. One minute, he praises something from the prequels. The next, he's bashing George for hiring yes-men. I like some of his ytps and criticisms of other shows (Voltron), but he's a classic RLM fancuck.
His milquetoastness is so insufferable sometimes.
@@KARKATELCESARENVIADODESA-pv4yd Yeah. It seems like he took a little too much inspiration from ThatGuyWithTheGlasses.
He doesn't follow the hive mind of raging Disney Wars haters or Disney Wars simps. He's you know, a normal fan
@@redjirachi1 Still mis-informed, though.
@@redjirachi1 So milquetoast with extra steps.
One thing we also need to say is that most clones weren't working closely with their jedi generals like Rex. Most would have probably never talked or fought with them and would have been taking their orders from other clones, in which palpatine would have been the ultimate commander of the army and they would have little reason to disbelieve him when he said the jedi betrayed the republic.
So even if the 2008 show wanted to explore the clones and their personalities and show that they weren't just mindless soldiers, they didn't have to change how order 66 worked because it would have still made sense.
When you make the bad batch video, please just title it "The Sad Batch"
@@comrade7324 I will.
Sad they got cheated of their ARC Trooper status.
@@j.j.plagiarisms7149 Name it "I don't know about a batch, but they sure are bad!" or at least say it somewhere in the video please, my one irl friend coined that phrase and if you bring it up I'd love to show it to him, he loves star wars video essays and I have wanted to show him your channel.
The Team Fortress ripoffs led by a Rambo knockoff 😂
Without the chips I’m pretty sure the clones would just assume that order 66 would be a separatist plot
They have limited thinking and were bred to be obedient.
The Leader of the seperatists IS a Jedi and Most people didnt give a Damn about the Difference between a Jedi and a Sith If you are a Lightsalber swinging Wizard you are a Jedi to Most people in the Galaxy.
If the order is coming directly from the holographic image of the Chancellor or is being phoned in by their commander, why would the clones assume it's a Separatist plot? In one specific instance, admittedly, a squad of _commandos_ did suspect that.
It's MORE Reaslistic if the Clones were Indoctrinated to follow the Chancellor's Orders, not a Glitch from a Potato Chip.
Order 66 was so chilling and heartbreaking in Revenge Of The Sith. I didn't understand it much as a kid but as a grown adult it hits harder. As that's the only time we saw the brutality Star Wars was capable of on screen for a rated PG-13 rating. George got away with a lot and I'm shocked really. But now, we've seen Order 66 depicted so many times, from so many different perspectives that to me it's lost its meaning. What was once a shocking and gruesome event in history has now become a thing that just happened... To a lot of individuals who lived through it. Especially with those who SURVIVED. The meaning behind the scene was that the Jedi Order was dead. And those that did live died by the time Return Of The Jedi rolled around. Yoda even says, "When gone I am, the last of the Jedi you will be." Which to me me adds way more weight on Luke. Meaning if he fails to convert Vader the Galaxy is doomed.
To think it was the last time we got anything out of lucas himself... in a way, the film was the chronological end of star wars, we just didn't know it, a big NOOOOOOOOOOO of regret and a final screen of an evil empire building their super weapon... but... will there be.. a new hope?
@@KARKATELCESARENVIADODESA-pv4yd It was definitely the end. As the whole story had been told. George literally says the story of Star Wars is the tragedy of Anakin it starts when he's 9 and ends when he's dead. He actually said that
What a lot of this Filoni fans don't realise is that many soldiers in the real world would follow order 66 like commands. Imagine for example: The President of the USA asks troops under a general to remove him from command by force if needed. The soldiers would obey the president, add in that this General is incompetent, does not get on with soldiers and uses them like cannon fodder and wastes their lives, Lets not forget soldiers take a vow to protect the Republic and it's people as well. Let's be honest I can see many NCOs, officers and their soldiers more than happy to end this general.
So what the Clones did without any chips has happened in the past, many times a rogue commander has been stopped by his own Men, Roman History is full of such examples.
Yeah the filoni Fans never Look how IT Looks in Universe , the Jedi we're attempting a Coup to overthrow the government and Tried to Assassinate the chancellor. This IS treason in every Sense of the Word
You seriously can't expect people to always know the EU off the bat. The majority of Star Wars fans, the Casual audience, aren't going to bother reading countless books and comics, they prefer streamlined approaches to consume things easier. It's sad yes, but that's how it is.
In regards to why George Lucas created TCW, he didn't create it to "satisfy Prequel haters", he created because he felt he never got the chance to explore the Clone Wars fully in the films, hence why he hired Genndy Tartakovsky for the Micro-series to test the waters with Animation, and then decided to continue it with his Clone Wars series, and yes.... TCW is GEORGE's series, Filoni just adopted it. The majority of ideas and storylines came from George. Lucas wanted to explore television and animation, because it invited opportunities for good storytelling. Not only was Lucas working on TCW with Filoni, but also had planned a Live-Action series titled "Underworld" which the video game 1313 would have tied into.
If you want to blame anyone for the Retcons to previous Clone Wars material, blame George Lucas. People forget that Lucas was allowed to change things as he saw fit, and TCW was the prime example of Lucas using that power.
It's pretty easy with Wookieepedia, I didn't really read more than Plagueis and Lost Tribe of the Sith and Exar Kun comics, and I have a general sense of the timeline of events in the EU in my head
Still no excuse for all the retcons.
I find IT funny whenever filoni IS praised its all filonis Idea but the nanosecond WE critize the retcon Shit that was TCW suddenly IT was all George Lucas Idea, very convient...
@@laisphinto6372 Again, the majority of ideas came from George, Filoni just followed through with them.
Casuals should expect to get owned when they try to lecture about whatever story world it is in question.
Always preferred the way battlefront 2 (2005) portrayed the clones as knowing they were going to betray the Jedi (because the idea of the inhibitor chip didn't exist back then) and in some ways hating the Jedi "In the waning hours of the clone wars the 501 was discreetly transferred back to Coruscant, we all know what was about to happen what we were about to do."
@@meiriongratland9272 They didn't know they were going to betray the Jedi. They didn't see it as betrayal. They actually liked some Jedi like Aayla Secura and Yoda. But as the game points out, the main thing that drove them during Order 66 was the fear of consequence for disobeying. The army was their life. And treason was the worst thing they could imagine.
I generally agree with your take, but I disagree on your opinion as to why Filoni's depiction of the clones was bad. The clones should definitely have some kind of personality differences, and the EU certainly provided it. The thing that people don't understand is that the majority clones were raised primarily by Kaminoans and to a lesser degree by some mercenaries.
The ARCs and Commandos would naturally have greater personalities by human standards since they spent more time amongst humans and were granted greater freedoms than regular clones, as you said, but Kaminoans don't lack personalities, but they seem, by human standards, incredibly cold and unsympathetic. Kaminoan culture would also generally be viewed as negative by most humans. As a result, clones should indeed have personalities, but these should be shaped by their Kaminoan creators and to a lesser extent by the Mandalorians and Republic depending on which generation of clone we are talking about.
Just because the clones are genetically modified for greater obedience doesn't make them bee-like drones, and plenty of EU work suggests they have fears, downtime and can form connections. However, Filoni treated this as though this made the clones act like normal people, when it shouldn't, and past Season 2, he doesn't make them individualistic whatsoever, he just gives almost all of them the a similar moral compass to Rex and gives them very basic character archetypes like heavy gunner (Hevy, Wrecker, Hardcase), guy who follows the rules and regulations (Echo in his introductory episode, Tech, Crosshair for most of TBB S1 and some of S2, Fox, the clone assassins and commandos in TBB), the sassy/quiet guy, the grizzled commander (Cody, the sergeant from the Rookies episode, Rex at times and other random commanders in the series) etc.
*TLDR the real problem with Filoni's treatment of the clones is that he made the clones super moral people rather than him giving them truly different personalities with real depth, which in reality, he doesn't outside of basic character archetypes that he constantly uses, and he didn't pay any attention to the fact that the clones were raised on Kamino despite his negative portrayal of Kaminoans.*
Solid comment, but Filoni still went overboard with their personalities and individualism. The tattoos and hair variations are more reminiscent of our contemporary culture and cheapens the entire lore in a vain effort to be 'relatable'.
@mstash5 That argument comes under my point that Filoni ignores the Kaminoan origin/culture of clones.
Kaminoans have never been shown to act super personable, and they would probably abhor deviations like hair deviations, tatoos, and the like. Also, the clones are still in the military, and even IRL militaries have standards for the appearances of their soldiers. Such freedoms shouldn't be granted to literal slave soldiers of the Republic.
IMO, if the clones were raised more by Mandalorians, it would be a tad more understandable, but the lore clearly suggests that the Kaminoans were doing their upmost to limit amicable interactions between clones and the mercenary trainers to prevent the clones from being too independent and aggressive. I think clones aggression and some minor sense of honour can be shown at some points, but the clones should generally speaking not be acting ridiculously friendly.
I think the characterisation of Trooper Boil in TCW actually makes him one of the most accurate clone in the series. Boil was incredibly hesitant to help the Twilek girl and it took him a good while to gain an attachment to her, and at the start of the episode, he calls Twileks 'tail heads', showing the cold, disagreeable nature of clones from the EU. While I liked Waxer, I also understood that in the lore, he would have probably been terminated for his compassion earlier in his life, and the only way his character would work is as an anomalous clone who had been hiding his compassion up till that point. But, of course, in TCW, virtually every clone of significance is characterised like Waxer.
TCW continues to prove how bad it is
Before I watch this video I’m going to say that I thought the inhibitor chip storyline was well done, but unnecessary. It’s exactly the thing a show aimed at kids would do after several seasons of showing the clones as heroes when the writers suddenly remember how the clone wars end. No matter how well written the story arcs were concerning the chips, the entire idea is lazy and ham-handed. It’s the same as mind controlling the heroes so that they can do evil acts but be absolved of any responsibility. This conceit was doubly necessary when clones like Rex and Domino Squad proved popular enough to possibly carry forward into new media set after the clone wars.
The PT, despite its many flaws, explicitly depicted the clones as engineered to follow orders without question (through a ligit chain of command). This included any standing orders like 66 and presumedly at least 65 other orders (there’s probably many hundreds of standing orders that are drilled into the clones throughout their training, or even implanted subconsciously while sleeping.
If the clones were given orders that the Jedi were performing a coup and needed to be stoped, the incredibly disciplined soldiers of the GAR would not hesitate to eliminate their new enemies, no matter how well liked, no matter the emotional bond. And we see this in RotS, over and over. The only hesitation from any clone was due to caution in taking the Jedi unawares, knowing that taking a Jedi that was aware of an attack is suicide.
So, ultimately, I do not like the inhibitor chips, but it’s canon so my opinion doesn’t matter. Just like how it’s canon that lightsabers, elegant and complex technological weapons, have great big honking irregularly shaped and uncut crystals jammed into their housings as their main beam focusing component or even their power source as well….its just…it’s just wrong.
I do not like the prequels but the 3D clone wars ruined the things I did like about them.
I also hate the 3D clone wars because it completely obliterated the expanded universe.
Also shcafrillas video is as*
Also the 3D clone wars ruined the line in Republic commando about Delta squad being independent because the clones are not supposed to be independent so Delta squad being independent was supposed to be a big thing until the 3D clone wars ruined that
I get your point, i don't like the Clone Wars much either, but your almost snobby sense of superiority is annoying, get a grip m8
His opinions here are superior. No one has an obligation to be tolerant.
@@mstash5that’s your opinion though
Very good response! Though the part about the clones being programmed to hate the Jedi I'm not sure about.
Yeah espacially considering what 501st journal said about Aayla Secura.
I was told that most clones hated the Jedi, but I imagine there were some exceptions, but not enough to prevent Order 66
3:04 - 3:19
I don’t know about you but my little brother hated TCW no matter how much I tried to get him into it and he’s obsessed with Star Wars (we all are in my family). He used to call TCW “fake Star Wars” to mock me when I was watching it. I’m almost sure he never read a comic book in his life, or any novels, he’s only started getting into these old Star Wars books through audio of someone reading them on YT. When we saw the trailer for TFA, I was excited like almost everyone else on planet Earth but, the moment he say that cross guard lightsaber ignited he almost threw a tantrum. To this day I have never seen a 12 year old so disgusted and upset at a movie before even seeing it 😂
He'll go far in life, he was awake before any of us.
@@KARKATELCESARENVIADODESA-pv4yd I'm old enough to remember despising TCW back in _2008._
The biggest problem with the Prequels was the format. It was simply too big a story to be told in three movies, and this is where the EU came in clutch. It gave you the context and time to get to know the characters who were killed in Order 66. Stalin once said that one death is a tragedy, but a million is a statistic. The CWMMP turned those statistics into tragedies.
What TCW stans fail to understand is that the show was trying to patch a hole in the story that had already been filled and painted over by previous material, resulting in a complete mess of a timeline.
I think this guy isn't entirely without a point regarding Order 66 as shown in the movies, but he's ignorant about better stories that would resolve his issues with the movies just as well as TCW, if not more effectively, simply because the EU was overshadowed by the far more accessible TCW. And that may be Filoni's biggest crime against Star Wars, taking credit for the work done by the masterpiece he himself tore down and paved over.
A competent writer and director could have told that story in 3 movies. Just not Lucas.
@@jorgelacayo5688 Those films were so compressed and cut down that we weren't given the chance to pull back and get a sense of what was happening. Three two-and-a-half hour movies weren't enough to tell what was effectively a decade of complex galactic history, along with the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker, in the style of storytelling Lucas established for the Star Wars saga. Format was his worst enemy.
@@jorgelacayo5688 Lucas works better as a producer and creative consultant. Like he was in Empire.
@@jaffarebellion292 I think a film maker such as Christopher Nolan or David Fincher or Dennis Villenueve could have done it. Again, just not Lucas. At least not by himself.
@@vetarlittorf1807 To be fair, Lucas directed 3 masterpieces in my eyes
(THX 1138, American Graffiti and Star Wars 1977) and he was nominated for best director 2 times at the Oscars. He knows how to direct. I know he does. He was just very lazy with the prequels and they were made haphazardly because he was a CEO of a company (Lucasfilm) by then and had other priorities besides making "good cinema."
I'm still pro-inhibitor chips, just not the way they were introduced in TCW. I think they add a layer of redundancy to Palpatine's master plan, which makes more sense than simply trusting the Kaminoans' sales pitch.
Except it was not a "sales pitch."
The Sith orchestrated it themselves.
Thats bullshit especially when its already established that they are genetically altered to BE obedient why would you place a Chip in it that IS very easy to remove?
The inhibitor chip was just an excuse to make clones lovable, capable of regret after being controlled by command, only because the creators didn’t want them to be fodder or cgi aid for attack of the clones. AND YET clones literally said “we’re meant to be expendable sir, we’re clones”
The TRUE force of a clone would be to be bred to be a sleeper agent, work with the Jedi, endure duty, and yet in the end actually decide to not go along with it, while being a generous individual with a general or a civilian in peril. Not just a jerk with robot brains after season 7.
You just made me realize Plo Koon isn't in lego star wars TCS for DS.
I hate it.
Since I’m at the siege bit and you haven’t brought it up. Maul taking over Mandalore is stupid as well. In the Filoni/ Disney logic a Jedi should been able to single handily stop the Mandalorians each war by challenging the leader. There would been a requirement to become the Mandalore you would be a Mandalorian.
Filoni had Maul become the Mandalore? Are you serious?
I would like to add the republic commandos novles are great read. Also, bad batch was trash, and I hated how they treated the commandos. Filoni, imo, like to make his fanfic characters and shit on old legend characters.
The inhibitor chip diminished the clone troopers. The clone troopers are meant to be cold and stoic soilders who don't question there orders
While I understand your frustration since there is a lot of good in the expanded universe, most people, especially if they are fans of what was originally a movie franchise will prefer TV shows and movies to reading. I personally wish George Lucas would have made more TV shows and movies expanding the universe as opposed to just books. I was hoping he would was going to do another microseries much like Star Wars Clone Wars but bridging what happened with the larger Rebel Alliance between Episodes IV and V and Episodes V and VI. I gained my appreciation for the expanded universe by reading guidebooks, Wookiepedia articles, and watching videos about Star Wars Legends here on RUclips. I have not read a full expanded universe book or played any of the Knights of the Old Republic games.
The inhibitor chip was a stupid idea and CW>TCW
The prequel haters are what led to the fall of the Star Wars Empire. The opinions of the haters led to George Lucas towards the Dark Side (Disney). Which betrayed everything he stood for destroying it. It mirrors the prequel themes perfectly, “it rhymes.”
12:30 not necessarily. Even in the old EU the regular clones had some independence. Its just that with a mix of training, being raised from birth for war, Jangos DNA, and genetic tampering, they were far more likely to not be independent in personality and just do their job and follow orders. Especially if they didnt have others to bring out more independent thought and personalities.
Not to piss anyone off. With the context of the books the video games RPG's the comics and nerds who loved everything Star Wars one can walk away not liking the Prequel trilogy. They are not the trash the sequel trilogy is I can watch the Prequel just for my taste I didn't care for the movies and I blame myself I was born in November of 77 my dad took me to Empire for my first movie. I built up in my head an impossible want that they couldn't live up to. But that's just me I wonder how many people are going to come at me for this.
I feel like the control chips were always a bad idea. Maybe they could have done a split personality, or a hypnotic command. As you pointed out, Cody clearly calls Sidious as the dark lord and the clones don't act like zombies. You could have had the "good clones" trying desperately to fight their mental demons.
I wonder if Filoni is aware that the character he wants to be Rex in RoTJ (aside from being a white guy while the clones are not) may actually have been killed at the start of the ground battle. A helmet less scout armour trooper lies on the ground, clearly dead. Since Filoni can't kill his characters he won't like that.
What a great video to wake up to this Saturday morning
Filoni is a fraud. Of course Lucas is to blame for a lot of the wrong developments in TCW as well but Filoni's inability to let go really didn't help. In some way, he is a great representation of Anakin's flaws.
I wouldn't be surprised if Schalffrillas would be secretly happy if George passed away.
Imagine being this autistic
8:46 Admittedly, Schaff never said it wasn’t well done, he just said it didn’t really effect him as much as the rest of Anakin’s fall
I will somewhat defend the *idea* of the chips if only because the clones were already established to have been genetically altered for a greater loyalty and to be more likely to follow orders without questions, Palpatine was known for an excess of contingency plans (so having a back up to the mental conditioning makes some sense to me), and that the clones were supposed to an organic mirror to the mindless waves of droids designed to die in massive quantities to further palpatine's plans, and droids having mechanical inhibitor chips is as old as the original movie.
It's just the execution in general and the writers using it to defend their actions that sours the idea for me
Brainwashing IS fine but a chip that IS also very conviently easily to BE removed to save filonis Favorite OCs IS stupid AS hell. There shouldnt BE an Option to make that removeable at all
If Order 66 could be initiated by a tumor then why didn't every other order go off or at least on other occasions?
thank god Karen Travis wrote into the books that the jedi were not that great as generals and the clones hated them 9 out of 10 times
Well traviss also thinks the jedi used a slave army of child soldiers and that Mandalorians were so much bettah¡!
@@НеАнтон-ы2э No she doesn't. She just had the clones perceive it that way, because why wouldn't they? Even TCW acknowledges this through Slick.
I'll be honest, I *like* the more independent and personable clones of TCW. I didn't know the older canon, so I'm used to them being that way, and I like it. But the inhibitor chips are a bad solution to that problem, and was poorly executed as well. Even in TCW, the Jedi show themselves to have a poor grasp of tactics and strategy, and to basically feed the clones mostly into meat grinders. It would be very easy to explain that the clones came to distrust and hate the jedi over the course of their war for absolute incompetence. Most of the clones aren't going to hang around their jedi any more than your average soldier gets to see *their* generals, and "the enlisted hate their officers" is a pretty common trope in military fiction. Clones that know and like their jedi generals would be the exception, not the rule. Inhibitor chips do technically solve the issue of independent clones, but if the inhibitor chips work and don't damage the clone's combat ability (and no such effect is ever described) then why not have them on the whole war (which just brings us back to original canon)
Yeah, I can buy both the more independent and personable clones of TCW as well as them simply being so indoctrinated that the large majority would follow Order 66 without needing chips.
The inhibitor chips were great though. Makes the empire look even more authoritarian.
Not at all.
Yk what makes the Empire look even more authoritarian? Indoctrinating children from birth to despise their enemies, rather than stupidly making the clones independent and then suddenly having them betray the jedi because of a switch.
Clone wars was dope. You don't have to look at things so black a white... If you enjoyed the comics / novels that's fine. But most people will never get into that, and the show is good in its own right. And that's an understatement.... I didn't even know who Dave falonie was when I started watching TCW... And I still like the 2003 version in its own Right, there both good .... Iv turned my back of star wars tho, iv turned to the Horus heresy series for my lore fix... I'm done supporting something I'm alienated from and being treated with contempt form Disney.
The show is wildly overrated. Many of us never even found it "good in its own right."
@@mstash5Some people did though, and that’s ok. We’re all entitled to our own opinions and views
TCW is not well written in its own write it doesn't fix the films nor does it flesh out the world or characters well since it's an anthology early on reducing people like Dooku to generic villain or what they did to maul.
This entire video is the epitome of “NORMIES! REEEEE!” complete with the vocal lisp and needless hostility.
“That’s stupid” and “everyone’s stupid” isn’t an argument bro. Constantly excusing criticism of the prequels because OTHER PIECES OF MEDIA made it make more sense isn’t a good argument either. And I’m someone who likes the prequels so you can’t just cry “prequel hater” either. The fact is, needing to have seen secondary media for something to make sense or have the same impact means that it wasn’t planned that well.
If someone needs to have read all the comics and books to appreciate your movie, you’ve made a poor movie. They’re not stupid for not knowing what isn’t shown in the piece of media they’re watching.
You say the clones aren’t shown much because the story isn’t about them but when a major, if not THE major plot development hinges on the audience understanding why they’re doing something then yeah, it should be shown. A single line from a salesperson about how they’re perfectly obedient WHILE the camera is on a clone that appears to be not mindlessly obedient doesn’t cut it. The clones were never shown to be thinking feeling people in the movies but they never shown to be perfectly obedient soldiers *either.* So when your average audience member sees them on screen creatively taking down droids with heroic sounding music, they’re going to think “oh yeah these are the good guys and there’s more to them than just faceless mindless grunts.”
Order 66 without the chips does not make any sense for anyone who’s served in the military, and it doesn’t make sense for the Jedi. These people who are shown to be wise and can sense intangible unease in the universe just never get a bad vibe from these guys for years and then the vast majority of them get jumped? All because some dude told them to? Every clone was given a little pamphlet on all their orders but the Jedi just… never knew about that 66th one? And you can’t say “well only a select few clones knew” because that’s not true and we see normal clones take part in the order. Meaning ALL the clones knew somehow but the plan never leaked to the Jedi. To your average viewer this sounds absolutely ridiculous, and they shouldn’t be expected to have done *homework* for it not feel ridiculous.
At least with the chips the idea that the Jedi could be genuinely surprised passes the suspension of disbelief for your average viewer.
If all these changes you so vehemently despise were as objectively bad as you thought. George Lucas as executive producer wouldn’t have let them happen. It’d be one thing if he was completely out of the picture, but he wasn’t. So he clearly thought the changes were good or at least tenable.
AOTC doesn't really feel heroic, most of scenes of clones are in a "fog of war" motive. The rescue LAAT uses Death Star-like lasers, this is just normal visual cues.
I'm not reading your wall of ree, weirdo.
As someone who likes clone wars
I respect your opinion.
Why do I get the feeling that if they did give some backstory/scenes to those Jedi seen killed during Order 66 in the movies, the prequel haters will just add "The movies are giving attention to these 'no names' and then kill them off, taking away more from the main story of Anakin" as a criticism? But seriously, the 501st Journal was all that was needed.
Not that im saying i perfer the chips, but even in the case where thr clones are genetically programmed to be less independent, they are still functioning and intelligent human beings that can make decisions on their own and come to their own conclusions. In tcw canon, it would make sense that something like the chip exists to cover all bases.
While I prefer programming and indoctrination to chips I have to agree that less independence does not mean no independence.
Thank you for speaking for the original EU.
i hated TCW long before it was cool
You're not the only one.
I don't particularly care for Schaffrillas but this seems weirdly and unnecessarily targeted. Like it's fine to think inhibitor chips are dumb but this feels more like an excuse to launch a personal attack at someone for no reason other than because you disagree about something in a kid's show.
If you watch a bit deeper, Schaff also dunks on aspects of the prequels unnecessarily
But yeah the title needs to be changed, but that's a problem with RUclips as a whole, unfortunately. The title alone kind of misleads the vid's main point which counters various points Schaff made
It's such a shame that season 7 was only 8 episodes instead of the intended 12
Season 7 did have 12 episodes.
It had 12 episodes. 3 arcs that were 4 episodes each
Can you do a video on Emplemon’s new JarJar video?
Oh, that would be glorious.
28:43 (Sigh) Alright, play the song...
Yo mr plagiarisms, what did you think of Son of Dathomir, Crystal Crisis on Utapau and some of those other cancelled arcs? (Me personally they are pretty much as retcon and canon breaking as the rest of tcw, especially crystal crisis but they probably would've been the most "enjoyable" arcs to watch from what I've seen)
55:05 oh all i thought of that scene when i watched that scene all i could think of is how that retcon happened and the dialogue doesn t match up.
The hardest part of this video was listening to James
You know, when I was younger, I despised the Filoni clone wars show, having read a lot of the books. I thought inhibitor chips were stupid, the show retconned so many things it didn’t fit in canon, and Ahsoka was an annoying, invincible OC. Then I sort of second guessed myself and tried to open my mind to TCW and related projects. But after seeing the sad excuse of Thrawn in rebels, a Death Star laser firing B-wing, and Ahsoka avoiding certain death for the SECOND time in Rebels, I went back to look at TCW again. I didn’t love what I saw. Then the Ahsoka show cemented this in my mind: my younger self was RIGHT. Filoni is a terrible writer when he is left to his own devices, and TCW is the most overrated project in Star Wars.
I love The Clone Wars. I really do. But christ on a bike, the inhibitor chips are really dumb. Not a fan of them and that Palps is speedrunning to replace the clones in The Bad Batch is just dumb aswell. I like Legends more in that regard were the Stormtrooper Corps did consist of both clones (of various templates) and recruited personnel.
It's commonly said now to "let them cook" but I would argue that Filoni has been overcooking his involvement with Star Wars.
I was scrolling through this guy's channel, and he made a video saying why the Last Jedi worked at redeeming a hero over Endgame. It's a video that's 5 years old, but for the love of God, respond to it.
Going after Tamatoa? One of the hottest takes you're gonna make
nerds fighting
lmao
12:23 Ok. Now this has some substance to it. I was beginning to wonder if it'll ever progress past "but I like how they made it originally".
9:28 anyone who thinks this is a sociopath. Straight up. I know cuz I'm one 😅
I couldn't stand to listen to Schaffrillas almost 50 minutes into this video.
Call me later when you finally decided to review The Jungle Book 1994.
15:23 am i seeing things or is that guy holding a P90?
in regards to him not understanding order 66, it appears to me that he has the psychopathy of rationalism, or at the very least has his heart closed off to this aspect of reality regarding the meaning of 'jedi'. the jedi are the shining order which stands between all life and total darkness, any of them dying is sad because you understand the widespread effects of the loss of that shining light, immense widespread suffering and death of those who they protect and serve. the jedi are those ideal beings who sacrifice worldly attachments in order to become more than who they are and protect and serve all life. if you dont have an emotional appreciation of someone because they are a jedi, then you are missing a piece of the puzzle of life. any loss of life is tragic, all suffering is grievous, the death of the jedi order collectively is a symbol of the destruction of common good, the destruction of wisdom, the destruction of love, and life, and liberty across the entire galaxy. you dont need to know these characters as individuals to emotionally understand whats happening in the scene, and the fact he doesnt get it shows hes lacking the emotional understanding of that aspect of life. however at the very least he could if he was so inclined read the comics and books and develop an individual knowledge of each character.
Hey can you cover schaffrillas video on the last Jedi?.
You gotta respond to Sheev's video (the inhibitor chip part) that'd be fun to criticize I'm sure
Atomic Heart does inhibitor chips better. Good video
It is so obvious the reason the clones were given any characterization was because kids thought they were cool. TCW was made specifically for children despite having a few “adult” elements. The decision to put in the inhibitor chips was solely to remove culpability from the clones during order 66. Filoni decided that kids couldn’t handle the idea that the “characters” they followed through multiple season could be capable of accepting that soldiers could chose country/the republic over “friends”/the Jedi. Apparently he was right.
Grew up with clone wars show will always have a special place in my heart for it but there are other things that did the clone wars better like the first cartoon and how they did grevous
I grew up on this show too but now I despise it after learning about how it contradicted the original canon before the canon reboot.
@@Wade_TylerI don’t think you should necessarily despise it. It’s good to keep that information in mind though
@@crptic9925 I’m quite happy to despise TCW thank you very much, because the show has aged badly and doesn’t fit with the prequels.
I agree with the most of the points. But I really don't think its that bad. Of course it retconed Republic, but since now its Leyends and Legends is its own continuity, doesn't have to deal with TCW's contradictions in the same continuity, I don't think its that bad. (Just not good)
Tcw also contradicts the films
The thing is TCW is still officially part of the Legends timeline. Which is something prequel haters tend to use as an argument saying "See? The EU didn't make sense and TCW had to make sense of all of it". Despite the fact that TCW was the sole reason the EU's continuity started to become convoluted.