Why the GREEN FACTION deserves to rule the Seven Kingdoms
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
- The Green faction is very dutiful, and this leads them to believing in Aegon's cause as the rightful one over Rhaenyra's. They believe that Aegon's legitimacy is based on Andal and Valyrian customs, as well as the historical precedent that’s established through Targaryen history. It also helps that Aegon’s claim is backed by important symbols that bolster the Green faction’s authority to rule. With experienced advisors and a focus on governance, the Greens are more likely to rule effectively and this makes them the more credible choice to lead the Seven Kingdoms.
OTHER PLATFORMS 💚
- Twitter X: / th3critclmaestr
CHAPTERS
00:00 - Intro
01:17 - LEGITIMACY
06:26 - COMPETENCE
10:40 - DUTIFULNESS
14:57 - CONCLUSION
16:00 - What do YOU think???
ART CREDIT:
The following credits are made by the order of the art’s appearance in the video.
- The Green Council by Doug Wheatley
- The First Men by Chase Stone
- The Rhoynar by Fredrico Musetti
- The Andals by (unknown)
- The Andals at War by Roman Papsuev
- The Faith Militant by Joshua Cairos
- Aegon the Conqueror and his Sisters by Doug Wheatley
- Aegon the Conqueror crowned by Michael Cormack
- Visenya Targaryen by Denis Maznev
- Maegor Targaryen by Doug Wheatley
- Aegon II Targaryen by Doug Wheatley
- Jaehaerys I crowned by Doug Wheatley
- Jaehaerys and Baelon by Doug Wheatley
- Aegon IV & Daemon Blackfyre by Marc Simonetti
Note: All materials in this video are used for the purpose of enhancing my opinions on the topic discussed, not to plagiarise or bastardize any of the intellectual property used. This falls within the guidelines of fair use and so no copyright infringements were intended.
#teamgreen #houseofthedragon #asoiaf #asongoficeandfire #gameofthrones #alicenthightower #alicent #rhaenyra #rhaenyratargaryen #ottohightower #greensdeservetorule #fireandblood #georgerrmartin #aegontargaryen #hbo #hbomax #windsofwinter #daemontargaryen #corlysvelaryon #teamgreen #green 
Развлечения
![Eminem - Houdini [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/22tVWwmTie8/mqdefault.jpg)
when reading Fire and Blood I didn't care much for Aegon character when he was introduced as this lazy, unambitious sot. But as the war progressed I couldn't help but notice his resilience, courage and intelligence and root for him. It's remarkable how quickly he grows into his role as king and how devoted to his cause he becomes by the end. He is determined to reclaim his father's throne, to restore order to kings landing by putting down the rebellion and punishing the insurgents, make peace with his enemies, he already plans to marry a Baratheon girl not for love but for duty to get an heir again. From the irresponsible, lazy drunk he supposedly was you would expect him to be vain, selfish and hedonistic, someone who only pursues his own pleasure and expects others to do the hard work, but no the hardships and responsibilities shaped him into someone who takes duty seriously. Even though prone to make rash, and imprudent decisions he also had the favourable quality to listen to the counsel of wiser and more experienced people around him and nearly always follows their advice. I think towards the end of the Dance it's painfully clear he is a better ruler than Rhaenyra.
That's exactly right.😩That's exactly who Aegon was in the books, and that's why I sided with him during the conflict. There was growth and development throughout his story in Fire and Blood. You could even say that he succeeded in the goal that his mother set out for him, because he was told that Rhaenyra was a usurper that would kill him if she were allowed to sit the throne, and that he needed to get rid of her first before she got to him and murdered him. In the end, though he had been reluctant to be a part of the ploy in the beginning, he ACTUALLY DID IT! It was a struggle for him as he had to fight, get hurt and learn to get back up even despite his injuries and disabilities, but HE DID DO IT! There's something admirable about that, and poignant even. He was given a huge responsibility and he stepped up to the plate; but I don't think that the writers of the show will handle his story with the same kind of care as it was given in the book. I think that (to a certain capacity) he'll be villainized 'til the end. 😤😤😤
On the show, they made Aegon into someone that the audience can scarcely root for: a drunken sot who r*pes women and watches children fight to the death in the pits of Flea Bottom. It's difficult to even empathize with him knowing all of that, and I doubt that the writers will give him a redeeming character arc like the one that you just described. They like Rhaenyra and believe that she is the rightful queen (and the true protagonist) of the entire story, so she'll continue to be whitewashed and her arc will be handled with care and poignancy 'til the end of the conflict. I doubt the same will be said of Aegon's arc in the end, but I hope that I can be proven wrong. 😔
@@thecriticalmaester9702 Rhaenyra (competence to laziness) and Aegon II (laziness to competence) literally switched roles. Aegon II fought in the war and his war scars likely gained more fealty and respect from his soldiers and loyalists. Rhaenyra is a coward who never fought in the war and did not bring her dragon into battle. Rhaenys did what Rhaenyra could not and actively fought in the war on her dragon Meelys and died a true warriors death.
People that support the Blacks are way too willing to overlook the fact that Rhaenerya did not earn the respect of her kingdom. They will scream and shout about how the deck was stacked against her because she was a woman, but then they just expect that to change that viewpoint she should have actually built relationships, been at court and show her political skills. She needed to sway public perception in her favour and at every turn she disrespects everyone and spends her time hiding at Dragonstone... instead of doing literally anything to make her seem legitimate.
Even if Rhaenyra had become queen without issue, there would still be a Dance of Dragons. Rhaenyra's sons are divided between the "Strong Bastards" (her sons with Harwin) and "Trueborn Targaryens" (her sons with Daemon), sooner or later the realm would divide in two factions anyway. Rhaenyra is the cataclyst of the dance, not Aegon II
True
Rhaenyra and viserys yh
I never thought about that, but it is 100% correct. The questions of the legitimacy of her children by Harwin, allegedly by Laenor, would not end because Rhaenyra gets the crown. Her children by Daemon have stronger claims AND they have Daemon there to help them. Someone, probably Daemon, would challenge or undermine Rhaenyra's bastards.
Yes and daemon would make sure his boy was on it….
@@darriuscole8544not really,why risk his position as king consort in case rhaenyra find out when his daughter is already marrying jace and his blood will inherit the throne anyway
Greens are the best option for the realm. Their rule would also be more stable. Aegon has two legitimate sons as heirs, which secures a peaceful transition. In contrast, Rhaenyra's heir is a bastard, whose ascension would likely lead to war, either between Jace and Alicent son's (their descendants) or between Jace and Daemon's sons.
That's very true. Because the Green faction's members are actually politically astute, Aegon's situation would actually result in more peace and political harmony. People overlook these things because they don't like the Green faction in the first place.
Good, Gods only know what we do if something happened to the economy!!!
“Gods be good”
Agreed
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Simplest argument for the Greens:
If Aegon was King, he'd just get drunk while Otto, Alicent and later Aemond ruled the realm for him.
If Rhaenyra was Queen, she would sit back and let Daemon turn the realm into a bloodbath on her behalf. Seriously, if the phrase "King Daemon Targaryen" doesn't terrify you, you weren't paying attention.
Wrong. Aegon literally replaces Otto because Otto sucks and Aegon is based af.
King Daemeon sounds awesome.
Ok, but why exactly should "King Aemond" sound any better than "King Daemon"?
Otto, Alicent, and Aemond would make things even worse than Daemon would. You Green stans are fucking delusional.
@@amelancholybear1534 That only happened after Blood and Cheese.
I think Rhaenyra's reign is doomed to end with civil war. She gave birth to bastards and legitimate children, married Daemon and didn't have a great relationship with her siblings, basically leaving them feeling unsafe. The war would happen either way during her life or in the next generation. And even though I think she wasn't a bad person, she also wasn't a great politician. Like, the way she handled Vaemond's situation in the book was a sign that she had tyrannical tendencies.
So, what's the point of supporting team black if they can't provide stability or make good political decisions?
Aegon is not so much a worse politician than her, but at least he has better advisers and legitimate children as heirs
Exactly. But the show doesn't show her tyrannical tendencies because they want her to appear to be the hero of the story - the girlboss. I don't think that they understand that neither side has clean hands in this war.
@@thecriticalmaester9702 But they do show her demanding the torture of a child who has just been mutilated, and destroying the honour of a man then shrugging it off like it was no big deal or was not supposed to have any consequences. And she's even worse in the book? Ouch!
@@thecriticalmaester9702 The Blacks win. It's in the book.
@@Ares99999Its a loss for everyone. Having half of your family line lead to future betrayals and rebellions and eventually off the Ironthrone itself is not a win
Rhaenyra was later called “Maegor with teats”. That should be a clue as to how her reign was.
The Hightowers are like the Tyrells in GoT. They are skilled politicians and aren't problematic. Margaery Tyrell is similar to Alicent in some ways. Both of them are dutiful and law-abidding women. Their sense of duty comes from the fact that they respect customs and traditions which Rhaenyra does not. Both the Hightowers and Tyrells possesses soft power. Their ability to pull the public to rally beside their back is impressive compared to the Targaryens whose power comes from the ability to threaten anyone with their dragons and soldiers. Also, Rhaenyra has no regard for the public or her subjects as if their support are of no consequence. Rhaenyra is a tyrant just like Cersei and to see her as a "feminist leader" is absolutely crazy. Rhaenyra's has the name and the blood to claim that she has every right to rule but Alicent and the Greens also have that and more. They have the blood, name and skills to rule if I were a Westerosi person I would definitely rally behind King Aegon and the Greens.
margaery's mother is also a hightower so her dutifullness comes from her
@@hazeinheavenit is known.
There are a couple of subtle scenes to show how Otto is a great administrator. He sits down and talks about taxes on textile products. This is something Daemon would never sit down to talk about, he doesn't have the patience, Otto does tho.
At first glance, Otto seems like a terrible person, but when you think about it carefully enough, you realise that he is actually a great politician and is absolutely right about most things. He is actually quite a descent guy. All that he does, he does for his family. Everyone else is like that on this show, so why should he be villainised for it? He is actually just trying to protect and secure high positions for his own kin - and he is great at it. He made his daughter the queen of the Seven Kingdoms (the most powerful woman in that world), and now he is trying to secure the Iron Throne for his grandson. He actually succeeds at this, too.
It's always odd how Team Black, despite knowing Otto being the Hand for 2 Kings, and how the 7 Kingdoms haven't burned under his years of rule when the King wasn't able, never gives Otto and even Alicent and other Greens credit for the ruling of the Realm.
Even Rhaenyra, albeit in a quick manner, had to say to Daemon "what do we know about ruling a Kingdom", and while it was meant as a slight (saying Otto rules instead of Viserys, to see how they'd react to this) it was also very true. Otto actually had Political tact/acumen, and was just speaking the facts whenever speaking of the manner regarding succession and laws, etc.
Maybe because he threw it all out of the window out of greed. Reminds me of that "great" university professor who was 75 and refused to retire and the university wouldn't say a thing about his pure incomoetence because he had been a great teacher in his youth. Sure, no one is denying he had a brilliant mind and was a great teacher when he was 50, but as it is now, he is the WORST teacher I've ever had. For starters, because he didn't even teach at all. Everybody failed his subject unless they were in private classes and he made everybody who entered his bureau cry because he was a cruel bastard who enjoyed humiliating the students he otherwise didn't give a damn about. All he did in his classes was writing unintelligible numbers in the blackboard for 15 minutes, we copied them, and the rest of the time he talked about his family like a mad man (who he surely was). Otto may have been competent, but his later actions led the kingdom to war. He was competent then, he is not now, just a manipulative power hungry bastard who is willing to sacrifice everything to gain its goal. There's no worst leadership for a kingdom who wants peace than a power hungry one who doesn't give a fuck about anything but his own personal goals.
I think thats because Rhaenyra is so deadset on her and her sons ruling that she doesnt think ahead to the consequences of what she is doing. Even if she has the entire green line killed, we know from Maegors reign that rebellion is will always be there if you go against the system that has kept the peace. So Rhaenyra is willing too risk the entire Targaryen line for her selfish actions
@@goodaimshield1115umm this story is fiction, don't spew half passed ideas dumbass, I'm trying to have fun. All I Hear is 75 blabla and blabla and blabla.
Remember when Rhaenyra was questioned by her dad if she fu**ed Daemon and she just said "None of these would matter if I were a man"?
It was never about women's rights for her but the right to be as messy as any man
Yup
And that worked so...
well for Aegon IV y Robert Baratheon.
If she was a man she would not try to claim that her bastards were the rightful heirs, nor would anyone else.
If she was a man she be gay which matter a lot in that era since for some reason they can't sire . She was asked if she fu*ed Daemon specifically
The delusion of black fandom is based on the fact that they believe that Rhaenyra's progressive attitude of doing whatever she wants and breaking the status quo, they have the childish belief that everything would be a peaceful transition towards equality between men and women. . Totally wrong, there would have been fights between the heirs and the older sisters for all the 10,000 lordships of Westeros, none of the black lords had their eldest daughter as heir no matter how much they supported Rhaenyra and this would only have made these daughters or not their descendants will be alive. They would claim the lordships with fire and blood, the reign of Rhaenyra and Daemon was a guaranteed cataclysm.
Exactly. The Greens might be framed as the villains, but their cause is more plausible and would lead to peace and stability. Aegon's claim, as I said in the video, is strengthened by several things: male primogeniture, historical precedent, and the symbols of legitimacy. His claim is certainly the least troublesome one. It's interesting that the show presents them as the villains, because his claim is the same as Stannis’s one in Game of Thrones. Rhaenyra's claim is not in accordance with cultural customs, and her son's claims are as legitimate as Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella's were - which is not at all. Even if Rhaenyra makes it clear that Jace is her heir, you're right, some lords might be uncomfortable being subject to a bastard king. They might feel more comfortable championing Aegon or Viserys's claim. Conflict is inevitable with the Black cause.
exactly! how the narrative continuously whitewash the black faction and tries to shove them down our throats made me dislike them so much. the fandom (mainly team black) being insufferable and delusional also makes in deep analysis and constructive criticism harder to make, since grand portion of the fandom seems to enjoy being the worst possible rendition of a character cult. how the show uses of the audiences' modern political lenses to promote itself as some kind of "revolutionary show" also doesn't sit well with me.
A Song of Ice and Fire has always criticized the social norms of its world.
Monarchy, War, patriarchy and prejudice have always been shown as something bad in books.
And the faction that received the most doses of whitewash was the Greens.
@@pedrolevipereiracarvalho5832 I think you misunderstood my comment. I am quite aware that ASoIaF criticizes the setting of its world, everybody is miserable for a reason. What I'm trying to say is that HotD's writing is not on par with that of ASoIaF regarding the moral greyness of its characters. The show has a very clear bias and is not shy to make it evident. Sure, let's give Rhaenyra a white hart to symbolise her as the "rightful heir". While we are at it, let's make up a prophecy of the threat from the North and have that as her main motivation for getting on the Iron Throne. Let's also make Aegon II a rapist who watches his own bastards fight to the death for entertainment. I don't know about you but I don't like when the writers of a show tries to make a character seem better in comparison to the other in a very personal conflict moved by self interest that it is and is adapted from. I want to make my own conclusions and not have the narrative doing it for me. By making it a Good Vs Evil conflict the themes and setting the show is trying to criticize rings hollow.
The only characters who were whitewashed from the green faction were Alicent and Aemond and even by far it doesn't compare to the characters from the rival faction, mainly Rhaenyra, who in contrast to her book counterpart is portrayed as the protagonist of the show.
Viserys should have taken a more active role in raising and disciplining Aegon to be a more decent person and named him heir to spare the realm and his dynasty irreparable damage.
Yes...but he did not. Sadly, that is the tragedy of Viserys 1, and the House of the Dragon as a whole. That's what makes it so engaging and complicated.
Honestly that’s what am saying the only reason Viserys is king is because the realm choosers a man instead of a woman. And she somehow expect to place her bastard children in the line of succession after her thus stealing the birthright of not only her own younger children whit Deamon but her siblings and their children’s birthright
Yup like the world doesn't revolve around you
THANK YOU!!!! YES!!!
I have always been behind Greens. Like if Rheanyra didn't have bastards i would still say Greens have better claim. LIke I rly dont understand how ppl get diasly manipulated by the show to root for Blacks. Yes I love Daemon as any other guy but that doesn't matter. Viserys was a bad king. I will always stand by that. Rheanyra is driven by selfishness, Viserys by inaction and Daemon by being blinded by his own might.
All facts! 💯
Thank you! I hated when it is set up as the blacks vs greens is a "good vs evil". In George rr martin books shouldnt be base on fictional "good vs evil". But in real life of "the heart vs heart"
True 💯
@@thecriticalmaester9702 The Greens are much more likable in the show than in Fire and Blood.
Aemond kills Lucerys in an unintentional accident and Alicent usurps the throne because she misunderstood her dying husband's words.
In the books, they are worse.
@@pedrolevipereiracarvalho5832I agree but i just wanted more of a "realistic base" show that tangle between human nature/behaviors that don't show a good vs evil. But real humans vs real humans.
Ya know, Rhaenyra's whole situation regarding not actually caring about Tradition and Duty was amplified with this;
Birthing not just one, but three Bastards to placed in line for the Throne above the King's trueborn male heirs was incredibly stupid. Her position as heir is already a precarious one.
Even Ser Lyonel was very upset and scared about the situation, and for solid reason. Harwin is VERY lucky Viserys is a pacifist king, particularly to a fault.
Also, for those who say otherwise; no, the Strong boys don't have more Valyrian blood than than their Uncles/Aunt. We can discuss that more if you guys want...
The issue for bastards like Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen is that their legal claim comes from their father Robert, who as we know wasn’t actually their father. If you say, legitimised Joffrey, he would literally have no claim to the Iron Throne. The three ‘Strong’ boys get their claim from their mother, so the father matters much less. Legitimise Jace, he has a legal right to the Throne.
Also, I’m not sure the purity of Targaryen blood matters all that much. The Strong’s and Alicent’s kids are both half Targ and dragonriders. If dragons only liked purple eyes and silver hair then Jace wouldn’t have one, and Nettles later on definitely wouldn’t tame one.
@@realdaggerman105 being a bastard is a issue even if jace is legitimised he would have no claim because even legitimised bastards can't inherent anything before a trueborn child if after legitimization jacees claim would have been weak against other claims even his claim on harrenhall would have been weak because house strong also have many trueborn heirs bastards can becomes heirs if there is no other trueborn children alive just like jon Snow can't inherent winterfell after legitimization because bran and rickon are still alive and just like that joffery can't inherent casterlyrock because there are to many trueborn lannisters
@@realdaggerman105 Thank you for announcing to the world that you don't know how bastards work.
@@amelancholybear1534
What have I misunderstood? Legitimise Joffrey and he has no claim to the Iron Throne. Legitimise Jace and he is legal heir over any younger true-born children?
@@amelancholybear1534 Why this attitude? No need to be rude.
Bastards or illegitimate children ( I don't like the word bastards very much ) have 2 biological parents who are not married. Jace, Luce and Joffreys parents are Rhaenyra and Harwin. They are not married. Technically they need to be announced as bastards first to be legitimised. So it would be Jace Waters ( born in the crownlands ), who then becomes Jace Strong after legitimization. Which is why the 3 are called Lord Strong. Because that is their actual title.
With that they would be in line of succession of Harrenhal, the seat of house Strong.
You could argue that Rhaenyra is heir to the iron throne and that they would be in line of succession there as well. But legitimate children come before illegitimate.
So the line of succession if we take Rhaenyra as Viserys named heir and ignore precedent and the council of 101 and pretend she never lied about them and never comitted treason is:
Rhaenyra, Aegon the younger, Viserys, Jace, Luce, Joffrey.
They are not actually in line of succession of Driftmark. Baela, Rhaena and Vaemond are in that order in line. Because sons before daughters before uncles.
Now with illegitimate children like Jace it really is a problem. Dies an illegitimate child have more claim than a legitimate uncle? I'm not actually sure. Could be equal.
This would be the situation, if! Rhaenyra would have been honest. Because she lied, she comitted high treason, which technically throws her out of line of succession. So having bastards is not the problem, lying about them is.
Without Rhaenyra the line of succession is this:
Aegon the elder, Jahaerys, Maelor, Aemond, Daeron, Aegon the younger, Viserys, Jace, Luce, Joffrey.
I know it is complicated, but that kind of is just how it is.
Reason number 4: Stannis is a Green supporter
No, he really isn't. This is 160+ years before Ice and Fire.
Actually he is, he made the proud Valarians his servents, dunking them into service, Robert forgave Targ. supporters, only reason lowly Valarians sirvived. @@Ares99999
@@Ares99999 he really is. he acknowledges rhaenyra as a traitor in the book. "Traitors have always paid with their lives... even Rhaenyra Targaryen. She was daughter to one king and mother to two more yet she died a traitor's death for trying to usurp her brother's crown."
@@hazeinheaven Yeah. Thing is, Rhaenyra was a girl, sto Stannis is hardly going to say the girl should have been queen. Westeros, aside from Dorne, is a patriarchy.
@@Ares99999 no because by far rhaenyra isnt fit to rule. not everything against her need to be misogny or sexist.
Tywin Lannister would have supported the Greens 🥬 no doubt. 😅
No doubt! The Lannisters were Green supporters even then.
As it’s written in fire and blood, Princess Rhaenrya had grown stoat and never lost the baby weight and was deemed as less attractive after aging out of her youth whereas queen alicent had remained rather slim and physically attractive, I do think people would be less likely to favour Rhaenyra if she were book accurate, just an idea though. I am definitely on team black but it’s important to note both parties are flawed and imperfect.
True but you can’t deny there is a biased in the show and most people hate aegon and can’t see they have a claim to also blacks out number greens and they use that to justify there right and use hateful rhetoric
Very telling way of saying she is what she looks like.
Very true, both parties are imperfect. However, I think that the show has been very biased against the Green faction for the most part. 🤔
I draw into question if the character descriptions are accurate when the events may not be written by a maester especially considering that fire and blood seems to slander Rhaenyra way more as a person
I say thisbin particularly becase Daemon is portrayed more favorably than Rhaenyra so far e.g...
The books say he loves his daughters and was jn live with Laena but this is something we don't really see
He seems more found of her but always wanted Rhaenyra but not the great lve described in Fire and blood
D also comes across like a terrible dad to both daughters
All this tk day the Rhaenyra hate seems to be inorder to justify that women should not rule ( sexism )
Alicent didn't really rule so she would be looked at favorably
The women who is all about serving the men in her life whether its her father , husband or son
I even question if Rhaenyra was even ugly at all
Rhaenyra' s gosport al physical appearance is at question as much as anything else in Fire and Blood
E.g...
Was she sabotaged leading to the sack g of the dragon pit
Did sexusm come into play with her getting blamed for stuff Aegon and her father allowed
From season 1 it's clear the common people get treated terribly anyway
It's u likely Rhaenyra did much different from the man who were thre but was criticised harder
She might have become a scape goat for a already damaged system which is very George RR Martin
@@shippendales8543blaming sexism as the reason to her being seen as incapable is not very grrm, things are much more complex than that in the game of thrones.
women ruled too in the game of thrones although not in the same way tht men do, the literal acting lord of the reach is a woman alicent held so much power for years in kings landing and her father's influence only increased it. before that we had queen alyssa and her daughter, they don't all care that much about the difference in men and women as you might believe, they understand politics and war and all that brings with it.
arguing that the sole reason maesters wrote anything bad she did was false propaganda is very biased in favor of her, think about it she never really got good tutelage for ruling her father didn't either nor did deamon or her mother how would she be an incredible ruler when she didn't care to learn how to go about playing the game of thrones. she never in the show or book showed promise except for that one moment she considered giving the crown for peace.
There is also the fact that the populace supports Team Green. We even know from the books that a riot which kills many of the dragons is what defeats Rhaenyra's regime in the end. Some nobles do support Team Black, in fact, if we count them all, more nobles supported Team Black than Team Green, but the commonfolk want strong male leaders and admire gentle, loving female figures-which Team Green gives them in the form of Aegon II and Queen Helaena.
The commoners are repulsed by Team Black which consists of Rhaenyra, a lustful princess who had bastard kids, and Daemon, a rogue prince who is literally one part Homelander (he justifies rule through power) and one part Judge Dredd. (LOL Police Brutality) So of course the people will prefer Team Green. If Westeros was a federal republic, Team Green would win the election hands-down. If we factor in the modern media culture and how it works, Rhaenyra would get hounded by the paparazzi and slammed for her many scandals, and Daemon would get condemned for police brutality, whereas Queen Alicent's piety and Queen Helaena's sweetness would win over the crowds to Aegon II.
The Upstart Greens were the warmongers... They doomed their House and the Realm !!
Th Greens were the start of the Maesters Conspiracy
Green rules....hypocrisy of the show runners .
Honeslty, i just hated how the Greens were meant to look as the "evil villians" when the blacks does the excat same tjings. Therefore meaning that we (the audince) have to be force to like the blacks and look at the greens as evil. And yeah theyre seen as that in the show bc the makers wants us to feel that.
Finally, someone making the logical videos while I'm busy over here.
Great video as always! It's hard to find good videos about the Green faction, but you've consistently made great ones, thank you! I'm not particularly for one faction over another but it annoys me when people side with one and refuse to understand the other, and this happens a lot with Rhaenyra's fans unfortunately. The Dance of the Dragons is interesting because it pits two sets of compelling characters against each other, with an actual political dilemma at the center, not because there's a good side fighing over an evil one.
Thank you for the kind words.💚 I very much agree with you on this point. I think that many people (after watching my videos) might get the idea that I despise the Black faction, but I don't. I actually like some of those characters, and I even understand their motivations, but I hate the fact that the Green characters on the show are not handled with the same level of empathy or understanding as the Black characters. The Green faction actually makes a lot of good points for why they believe that Aegon should be king, and in the book those arguments are presented fairly and quite compellingly. So why did the show choose to omit those very valid perspectives?
It's actually very frustrating to think about, especially as a big fan of the books - a fan who is very much familiar with George RR Martin's writing style. As you said, the Dance of the Dragons is particularly interesting because both sides come with interesting points and the result is an intriguing political dilemma. It's not a war of good versus evil. 🙄
@@thecriticalmaester9702 I feel exactly the same, the show is very one-sided, even when it tries not to be (taking out Alicent's agency was a big big mistake imo, your video on it was very good). I'm pretty sure everyone who knows me via twitter think I'm fully Team Green just by how I was defending them when the show aired, but in reality when I read Fire and Blood I'm very much in-between. GRRM is a master at creating characters that feel human and complex and understandable, and it unfortunately often gets lost with the adaptations :/
@@thecriticalmaester9702do a why the blacks deserve to rule
Omg! I feel the same way. Thank you so much. That's why I hated when one is painted as good vs evil. It should be based on "real world" for George rr Martin books
I think you guys aren’t aware of the attention span of the audience.
The people producing the show want as many viewers as possible and many cannot follow complex politics.
The same reason why they didn’t make Tyrion turn in the last series the way they let let others turn good like Jaime even though the trial and what followed clearly turned him
Stannis is not a kind man but he is a good man in a cruel world. He foes what he has to for the good of the realm because he believes westeros will be better off with him as king. And I agree with the mannis
In a medieval setting, being crowned and anointed are the most important symbols of legitimacy. They give you the regnal numbers. Even if Aegon was entirely deposed and all his legislation was burned he would still go down as Aegon II. The crowned and anointed ruler who is actually sitting on the country's throne and controlling the state is the true ruler by definition even if there is someone with a theoretically better claimant out there. Being the official ruler and being the rightful ruler are not always the same thing, though here half the realm would argue that he is in fact the rightful ruler and not just a usurper king. His ascendsion in precedence in the Targaryen dynasty upheld thrice over.
The whole point of monarchy is so there is no fighting over power because of a clear succession. By definition this type of succession is determined by rules that are consistently applied so that there are no competing claimants. Precedent therefore is one of the most important factors, especially if its the only reference point to go on and there is no succession law. Medieval kings couldn't really choose their heirs. The only times they even tried to name heirs was usually when their families were gone, and even then it was usually ignored. Hereditary offices do not work this way. Your claim comes from pedigree and its relation to the inheritance rules of the time, not being chosen.
Medieval kings couldn't do whatever or kill whoever without justification either, least of all high lords. Team Black on the whole is the complete antithesis of this idea because they are all about doing whatever the hell they want because they have dragons. That's their real claim to power. Everything about them is a rejection of Westerosi society so they have to take power with Fire and Blood. The Greens have everything else.
The greens also have dragons? No idea what you're talking about, but everything you said bout blacks applies equally to greens XD
That was the ideal. But in reality peaceful succession was incredible feat. Many were settled in house via infanticide, assassinations e.t.c. Like the Ottomans did. But others poured out into the rest of the realm in the form of civil and continental wars. To me, neither of these two, that is, Rhaeneyra and Aegon, would have made good rulers. It was lucky that neither ruled for long. Rhaenys was always the best choice out of all candidates in the timeline.
There has always been fighting over succession. A monarchy never guaranteed who would succeed. At most it was a strong suggestion backed by who had the more powerful military. A cousin didn't automatically inherit because he had himself annointed before a nephew. We know that GRRM drew heavily on actual events in English history for this story. The War of the Roses was a result of a succession crisis. Both Matilda and Elizabeth I were named heirs before living male relatives despite the laws.
@@LPno.9 There wasn't always fighting. Elizabeth's ascension was fine. Matilda was challenged because of the unpopularity of her Angevin husband with the Anglo-Normans and because she was a woman. All the usurpations during the Wars of the Roses happened because of political and economic instability. There are always some political, social, or economic reasons behind every usurpation beyond just claim disputes. If you as an heir are in that situation it usually means your father or predecessor screwed up bad.
@@user-ti5cw1ug6l There were wars and other crises of succession throughput English hisory. Elizabeth's succession was not fine. She was disinherited by her father and brother, and imprisoned by her sister. Her mother was killed for not providing a son. She had challenges by cousins male and female who considered her illegitimate. The Anarchy was a succession crisis regardless of the reasons you choose to give for it. And that's just England. The point is that there's nothing strange or unusual about the story in HOTD.
If I was a lord in Westeros (with the obvious exception of Dorne), I would side with the Greens unless I was in the North or the Iron Islands.
Well I think with that is the the "show" wants to show us as the north should always remains as the good guys. That's why I hated it when the westernlands always treated as they're the evil guys. It should be based on "heart vs heart"
If I was a Westerosi lord I would definitely support Aegon. The oldest son is always the heir, he doesn't have three bastards as heirs, he has good advisors of noble, respected houses, Rhaenyra and Daemon are total wild cards in comparison. His claim just makes the most sense from the perspective of the typical Westerosi lord interested in upholding order and their laws and traditions.
Lets just say Rhaenyra sits the throne and she dies after. Do people genuinly believe Daemon would allow bastards to sit on the Targerean throne? Lets say he doesnt mind. Its unlikely his legitimate sons and their descendants would agree for bastards to sit the throne. So either way. Rhaenyra fucked up. What most people dont get is, aside from her manipulating people and circumstances, what her main problem is, having bastards. Had she not had bastards, I think her cause would be tolerable. And even then, by Viserys naming her heir, he invalidates his own claim which he won by being a man. So there is no legitimate reason Rhaenyra sits the throne.
Lets just say it was not possible for laenor to sire children( they barely even tried because rhae gave birth to jace barely one year after their marriage) rhae should have tried to sire children with another velaryon( coryls or vaemond) so no one would even guess her children are not leanors. It was simply stupid to sire children witha brown haired dude
My biggest problem woth the show is that they're clearly trying to make the black faction out to be the good guys, when in the book its very clear neither side is truly good. Martin wrote the civil war to be realistic, but I saw this coming with how society is now, thst regardless of how they wrote it people would still favor the black faction because its woman fighting for her thrown against a sexist world. But in reality they're all power hungry monsters.
No they are not. They won't just make Rhaenyra bad in season 1 because her progression or decline will come as the story progresses. They have shown her flaws, they have shown her as a savior for women lol.
i aggre with you green council members are better at ruling and rhaneyra keeps insulting the great houses of westros she insulted lady redwyne on aegons name day she and her father also insulted Jason lannister she also insulted lord dondarrion
Everything you said is pure facts. When I watched the show, I wasn’t behind Rhaenyra’s claim because of all the reasons you listed.
The show had Daemon kill his wife, something not found in the books, and Rhaenyra and Daemon murder a poor servant to supply a body for the Leanor caper.
There are no real protagonists in this saga. They're all antagonists; difficult to root for.
But does the narrative dwell on those acts? Does it condemn Rhaenyra or Daemon for doing those things, and paint them out to be villains? Do they suffer repercussions for those actions? No to all of the above. But it does for all of the Green faction' characters.
@@thecriticalmaester9702 Good point.
@@thecriticalmaester9702 Yeah, there's no doubt that the writers propped up the blacks as protagonists in disguise.
@@thecriticalmaester9702 Sure. Since we know that in the end, it is the Blacks who win, might as well see them as the better party. When the dust settles over this war, it will be Aegon III, sone of Rhaenyra and Daemon, who will sit the throne.
I feel that similarly to the realm being ruled by Bloodraven under Aerys I, Otto would be ruling even with Aegon on the throne. It's a different scenario for someone like Aegon IV and Aerys II who want the power of being king to enact their cruelty, but Aegon's entire schtick is to be free from having to rule. Though he's an unequivocally bad person, the realm would still ultimately be ruled by a responsible leader in the form of Otto
This!! THANK YOU! It drives me crazy that no one acknowledges that greens would likely be better rulers and that even if Rhaenyra peacefully ascended the iron throne a war would have broken out regardless. It’s crazy how many people just ignore the fact that Westeros is set in the Middle Ages, cause that IS an important factor when analyzing or even just following the story. Rhaenyra having illegitimate children DOES matter. Her not following traditions DOES matter. Her council having very little experience DOES matter. Having Daemon be king consort DOES matter!!!! Now Rhaenyra 100% has a strong claim and should be queen but her own decisions and choices throughout the series are why she isn’t. Rhaenyra is a women and as awful as it is, that is gonna make people fight her claim. However, I think if she made smarter decisions such as keeping with tradition, not naming Jace as her heir, staying in Kings Landing instead of Dragon Stone, having Viserys crown her before he died, building her relationships up with Lords who would eventually have to choose between backing her and Aegon. While it’s unfair she would have to do all these extra things just to claim what was promised to her, it would have helped her claim immensely. I think Rhaenyra could and would have been Queen if she had acted more like the greens cause like them or not, they are far more politically savvy which is what was needed.
The Upstart Greens were the warmongers... They doomed their House and the Realm !!
Th Greens were the start of the Maesters Conspiracy
Very well said! It's nice to see videos supporting us in the minority.
I feel "tourists" of the series to tend to equate alicent as the bitchy step mother like in Cinderella which gives everyone the wrong impression with hightowers as mischievous when they were the only other house besides velaryon to marry in to the royal family.And when aegon becomes king he pretty takes his destiny in his stride and does whats expected of him for a king at the time.
I remember having an argument on Instagram with someone why Greens are legitimate. But she couldn't understand. She was thinking it through her feminist mind.
Strong arguments.
There is no In world reason to not be Green. None.
There is one: they lose. I'm not kidding. They lose.
@@Ares99999 they win dude. Rheanyra was never queen.
@@Ares99999nobody wins, they all die
I was always pro Green and pro Alicent. While I can sympathise with Rhaenyra, so much of what drives her is this vaguely progressive impulse to do whatever she wants which doesn’t actually help other people. It doesn’t help people be more free broadly, just herself.
I think your doing a amazing job keep makeing amazing videos love how you go into detail and as a person that supports aegons claim it’s very hard because there’s so many people that have a biased opinion and will say anything to get there point across team green all the way
Thank you for watching. 💚
I never viewed the Dance as the side that's trying to maintain law and order vs the side that's changing the status quo.
Most of the Blacks don't truely care about changing male premogeniture. At least in the books, Rhaenyra doesn't care about women or bastards having equal rights, just that she's the exception to the rules.
I'm not a black or green, I like characters from both sides, and I loathe characters on both sides. This video was really well done, I also just watched your Aemond video and he's literally the character that the show flipped me on. When I read the book, I initially loved Daemon and didn't like Aemond, but then the show came, and now, I still like Daemon, but omg Aemond is the best, I wish I could reach into the screen and give him a much needed hug when he was young, the actor for little and big Aemond both absolutely kill the role
Great video! Plz make more
Will do. 😊
House Hightower: Machiavellian merchant princes vs House Targaryen: eugenics sorcerer-kings.
Youre quickly becoming one of my fav ASOIAF youtubers, thankyou for your work, keep it up!
Thank you so much. There's more videos coming soon. I hope you stay and keep watching for more. 💚
"Competence"
*Shows picture of Aegon the Unworthy*
Even, Rhaneyra know she was going in ti war with the time, she even doesn't know all the dragons that has in power, was Damon who name the dragons even the eggs that the have, is an complete incompetente
😅
The portrayal of the Greens could be accurate for all we know since the books actually mentioning the dance of the dragons is actually a maesters account of how things happened,like for example: (spoiler for people who hadn't read the books.)
the death of Rhaenyra isn't really known, there's multiple conflicting accounts, and we know maesters records aren't perfect.
Great video, hope you make more
I think that there are some events that could be debated but that there are also some events that are most likely accurate in the book. For example, Rhaenyra's murder probably happened as it is written, especially since there were a lot of witnesses present at her demise. The show should follow what is written in the book for that. However, her affair with Ser Criston Cole is something that no one could've possibly known, especially since it happened behind closed doors. So the writers can take certain liberties with that adaptation. 👍
The portrayal of the Greens should follow a similar distinction. Some things happened and there is no debate about them, while others are probably unknown because there was no one around to attest to them. It doesn't feel like the show really made that distinction. 🤔
Thank you for watching my videos, there's definitely more still coming. 💚
Great video,understanding the other lords concerns is definetly something people forget.
Always been Team Green.
Alicent seemed like a good queen her biggest problem was probably raising her eldest son Aegon.
Rhanera seems like a below average queen but she seems like a good mother so her children would become good king's if she would win
I still think I am team Alicent because I like the color green.
Alicent is a better mother in the book
The Black faction would have a very capable politician if they still had Lyonel Strong on their side.
I agree with these points. The Green faction is the best option in my opinion. 🟢 Why would anyone think that Rhaenyra and Daemon would make good politicians? Daemon? Really? 😂
Aegon? Seriously?
@@goodaimshield1115 He is young and inexperienced. Rhaenyra is older and still dumber. Besides, under Aegon, the realm will be governed by Otto and Alicent. So yeah. Aegon, seriously.
Team Black supporters don't think. 🤦♂
@@NaphakadeTheGoat Good points. 😅
@@NaphakadeTheGoat green council includes superior people at their jobs while rhaenyra's council half is bastards other half is shortsighted warmongers.
This video will NOT age well. You all are confusing Otto with Tywin. Tywin had his shit on lock, Otto doesn't. The Green's spiral after Otto is fired....by Aegon. Like, how can you scheme for twenty years and still lose?! That is incompetence of out this world. They couldn't even properly train their would be King. It has to be a joke because anyone with half a gnats brain can see Aegon isn't fit to rule, and Aemond is worse. The Green's only hope would have been Daeron.
Spoilers for the book fellas, the Greens eventually win, although one of the Blacks, Aegon III gets there by marriage
Are you sure most of the lords are of Andal descent? In the books it appears to be the opposite at this point. Almost all houses are First Men with a few exceptions. Even among the Lords Paramount the only Andal house are the Arryns. You'd think the Lannisters and more Southron houses would be Andals but it seems relatively few are.
I feel like the show did the greens dirty. They are by no means saints, but they have valid points that the show doesn't highlight at all. Missed opportunity in my book, because now the conflict feels very one sided . But we still have season 2 so you never know
I totally agree with you. I hope that they actually do highlight some of the Green's arguments in season 2, because so many people don't even understand the validity of the Green faction's arguments for supporting Aegon's claim. 🤦♂
@@thecriticalmaester9702yeah, even with the biased writing, if you sit and think about what is happening instead of who you are told to root for, then it's clear that the greens are the better choice.
@@Johanna.474 Exactly! 💯
First of all, Alicent is raising two psychopath children and, knowing they are psychopaths, putting them in charge of the continent. This is to such an extent that she knows her oldest son entertains himself by watching his own bastard children live as slaves until being forced to fight each other to the death. There is literally NO redemptive value to any argument for her side based on that alone. However. It's hard to get invested in the outcome of Fire and Blood considering we already know there are no Hightowers OR dragons (except for Dany's three eggs) left by the time the main ASIOAF story begins. I watched the first season ONLY because Dumb and Dumber weren't involved, but I wasn't as into it as other people. The time jump and actor switch didn't work for me. There were too many inconsistencies with how the character arcs developed. The entire problem with the family amounts mainly to utter lack of communication between people. I don't want to see all the amazing, magical dragons kill each other off. But most of all, it's really tiring, after GoT, to watch another series based on a feudal society in which class consciousness or awareness of the aristocrats' actions negative impact on the common folk is entirely ignored. Ultimately, the entire "blacks versus greens" thing is rooted in selfishness and baseless lust for power, having nothing to do with the good of the people. At this point, I just find that obnoxious and boring.
long live the king
Thank you for saying this... All over the internet its Team Rhaenyra garbage. Good to see some people are still seing logic
Having listened to all of your "pros" on the side of the Greens, I'm honestly not surprised that the show hyped up the Blacks so much and tried to give the main members such positive leanings 😅
They kind of had to!
If I didn’t have such an irrational love of Daemon, I’d be Green all damn day.
They definitely failed. The green faction is much more relateable, likeable, consists of brave men and women who are ready to fight for what's theirs. They always abided to the law and did everything as they were meant to be.
Excellent video
I honestly didn't find Rhaenyra to be more likeable than any of the Green characters.
OH THE BLACKS WILL Get there hate in season 2. BLOOD AND CHEESE.
Will they, though? I wouldn't be surprised if Daemon accidentally tells Blood and Cheese to do the dirty deed - and for Rhaenyra to have absolutely nothing to do with it.
@@thecriticalmaester9702 Hope they do, otherwise the story will be far less interesting.
@@thecriticalmaester9702 If everything goes I quess the series end with Aegon and Viserys reunion at the Docks of Kingslanding.
@@thecriticalmaester9702 I agree with you. There's a lot of 'accidents' in House of the Dragon. 🙄
@@kjellduteweert9262You underestimate the stuborness of the Black stans.
I just want to say that if Alicent Hightower and Cersei Lannister were switched, the neither the Dance of Dragons nor the War of 5 Kings would have happened.
Daemon and Corlys have worked together in the Step Stones.
Love Aemond, all my homies love Aemond
Shoutout to you and the homies, bro. 🙌💯
Great video
Daeron the Daring should have been king, change my mind.
Yea he should have. Him and his dragon would have been very useful too the baratheon army at the battle at the king's road. He would have beaten the northern army then return too kings landing too claim the throne after Aegon died
@@Thrawn23. Exactly and to promote peace he could have married one of Daemons daughters.
It kind of defeats the point of GrrM's novels as this opinion is exactly what causes the dynastical turmoil. Whoever has the right to rule will always be questioned and lead to wars
The Greens should be in charge because women shouldn't be allowed on the Iron Throne, change my mind.
I don't think that is the only reason. Aegons advisors would rule in his stead if he cannot or doesn't want too make certain decisions for himself. Otto and Alicent would sue for peacefull solutions. If they cannot Aemond wouldn't hesitate to go to war and make peace that way. He would be the real protector of the realm
I also believe that, the greens can not like you, but they are more competent, and when a society like that not function war come and normal people suffer, meanwhile noble people, in general, not suffer so much
Exactly. Totally agree with you there.
The Iron Throne was still a very new legal entity at this point in the series. Remember that Viserys I was only the 5th king, with the 2nd king being the clear eldest child, the 3rd king unlawfully usurping power, and very real controversy over Jaehaerys I’s initial claim over Rhaena, his older sister.
Remember institutions like First Night, rage over Targaryen incest and the faith militant were all just about in living memory. They all ended. The fact of the matter is there had been no clear need to properly define the method of inheritance up to this point, and the Targaryen propensity for mixing Valyrian customs with Andal ones made these subjects very trick to presume.
In the end, what the King says generally goes.
But what if the king seemingly goes against his own proclamation? What if Viserys himself doesn't follow his own words? Why would he remarry after he named his daughter his heir? Why would he have more children and name his eldest son 'Aegon'? If the king doesn't follow his own laws, should his subjects follow them? How can Viserys's words override a custom that gave him the authority to make proclamations in the first place?
Yes, the Long Night was ended through a proclamation; but that proclamation was justified with religious reasons. Alysanne basically said that a marriage was a holy union between a man and a wife, and that not even a lord was allowed to interfere in it. It didn't make her popular, but at least she had good reasons. At least they were able to justify that decision. Viserys, on the other hand, says nothing after he names Rhaenyra his heir. He literally never brings the issue up again, especially after his sons are born. That would've been the perfect time to clarify the issue to all of the lords of the realm. 🤦♂
@@thecriticalmaester9702
Viserys never stopped loudly claiming Rhaenyra was his heir. He never acknowledged Aegon as his successor, even when pressed to. He gave Rhaenyra Dragonstone, the ancestral seat of the Targaryen’s which is also the seat reserved for the designated heir to the Iron Throne. It’s so symbolically important it makes up a good part of Stannis’ future tension with Robert.
Obviously he wasn’t perfect with it. People were scheming and plotting. But Viserys never broke his word. He made all the lords of the realm swear fealty to her, then proceeded to marry her to one of the most powerful families which were also dragonriders, then gave her Dragonstone.
Otto initially supported Rhaenyra but she gave too many red flags that she would destabilize the realm: Being Impulsive, Distant from Court, Mothering bastards, and Marrying Daemon. Alicent was the same but Rhaenyra constantly lied to her despite everything Alicent did for Rhaenyra: Similar to Viserys covering for Daemon. It took ten years for Rhaenyra to realize her mistake but the damage has already been sown and festered in the next six years to the beginning of the Dance of the Dragons. I don't think the Maesters hated the Targaryens because they had a lot of good things to say for Aegon the Conqueror, Jahaerys I Targaryen the Conciliator, Daeron Targaryen the Good, etc. However, the Maesters hating Rhaenyra shows the depth of her depravity.
Also, even though Allun Caswell (the guy who Otto hanged) supported Rhaenyra, I don't think he genuinely was loyal was just another opportunist and a people pleaser. The reason is that when he was caught, he cowardly did not affirm his loyalty to Rhaenyra to Otto's face unlike the two nobles in court, and attempted to plead for his life in a way. Otto likely was disgusted with Caswell's lie and hanged him rather than temporarily locking him in the dungeons with other conflicted nobles.
Regarding Viserys' reign, Otto credited Jahaerys and Viserys for the realm's peace and prosperity. Both those kings actually governed the realm with Otto's support and none of the Greens Council ever rebutted against this even in private. Viserys was a decent king but his love for Aemma clouded his judgment with it came to the matter of succession. Personally, I blame Daemon for being the one to start and instigate the war with his threats and the events of Blood & Cheese. He even ditched his daughters and Rhaenyra for Nettles which is horrible. There is a lot of evidence that Daemon was alive and ran away with Nettles since his body was never found (No body means no death). If Corlys of all people joined the Greens later on, it shows how messed up the Blacks faction is. Cregan Stark was also no saint because it took Rhaena and Baela as well as his future wife, Alysanne Blackwood, to not execute too many people for "honorable" reasons.
Overall, the Hightowers are the complete opposite of the Lannisters: Dutiful, Competent, and Practical. Tywin is not an exception because he killed too many people to satiate his pride and took a huge risk of starting the Red Wedding which would've condemned his family further if more and more people found proof that Walder Frey took orders from Tywin. As Maester Aemon had told Jon, "Love is the death of duty." The Greens selflessly sacrificed love for duty while the Blacks selfishly sacrificed duty for love.
Aside from that, I always consider Tyland Lannister to be a badass and a great father figure to Aegon III despite the latter's parents responsible for Tyland's mutilation and torture. It's funnier when you think that way since Tyland wanted Aegon III dead in the past but served as a loyal hand to him to the end.
Blacks vs Greens always seemed like the story of ants and grasshoppers in the show. The greens were the ants and the blacks were the grasshoppers
🤔
But just think Aegon would have been the unworthy before the unworthy was even born
One could argue he wasn't "unworthy" because the throne was rightfully his.
@@thecriticalmaester9702 but wasn’t the throne rightfully Aegon IVs?
if you were a regular ass resident of westeros, who would you rather rule your lands? the obvious answer is team green.
Lore of Why the GREEN FACTION deserves to rule the Seven Kingdoms momentum 100
Without having watched your other video: are you sure the show is biased towards Rhaenyra? I'm asking only because I havent't read the book and I know what I know about the characters only from the show and I'm totally Team Green!
I also don't think that Rhaenyra is likeable. She was more so when she was younger (ep. 1-5) but I don't like anything about her in the later episodes. That doesn't mean that Aegon is likeable but we just don't see enough of him for these two being really compareable.
If anyone, it's Alicent who is the face of Team Green. To me, she's - albeit flawed but - likeable. Definitely more than Rhaenyra.
I think the show is still very much biased towards her. If you read the book and some of the things that she is rumoured to have done during the course of these events, but then you watch the show to see that her hands are said to be clean from most of those things, I think that it's pretty fair to say that the show is biased towards Rhaenyra. All of her bad deeds are just shifted onto Daemon. Rhaenyra is presented as a totally innocent person... and it's because the show wants us to side with her and her faction.
Even when she does bad things, the show never dwells on those things nor paints her out to be a bad person because of them. She never suffers any consequences for her actions, and the narrative still presents her as if she's right. On the other hand, the Greens are completely demonized throughout the story, even in the ways that they've been adapted for the show.
For example, look at Ser Criston Cole. In the book, he is intelligent and even a bit honorable, and it is rumoured that it was Rhaenyra who was wrong in that situation. On the show, however, it's Ser Criston who is somehow wrong. Also, on the show, Ser Criston is adapted to be an insignificant knight with no shred of honour. He is only an angry and violent simp who can't seem to get over a one night stand with Rhaenyra. How is that not obvious bias against the Greens? And Ser Criston Cole is not the only character that the show does that with... but you'll have to watch the video to understand this properly.
@@thecriticalmaester9702 Thank you for your explanation! Now I understand the intention of the show much better.
What I wanted to point out is that even though the show presents her as a better person, they still failed to me, and I would not side with her. It's disturbing to think that she was even worse, did even worse things in the book.
As for Criston Cole, I do think - based on the show - that he was right, and I like him more than Rhaenyra. Now the question is: how can I perceive him the opposite way as the showrunners intended? That's what I'm wondering about...
Eh, I like her quite a bit.
@@thecriticalmaester9702I do side with her faction. It wins.
Note that it's not just Andal precedent but First Men and Dornish as well. While Dorne was led by women, it is common for men to rule above women there too in most houses. And the same is true for the North. There are few houses that put women over men, and it's usually because the women are only children/only daughters or the men are not competent.
Had Viserys changed succession laws completely then there would be a case for Rhaenyra's legitimacy (although not that of her children), but he didn't.
Very well put together video. I let RUclips play in my ears when at work. But I will never be team green and I’m low key annoyed vids like these keep popping up on my timeline
Don't be annoyed. Be a subscriber. Give the Greens a chance.😅💚
I think Allicents downfall, again, very ironically, are Vyserys' children, aka Aegon II. She seems cursed to live in the shadow of the Targaryens' depravity and impulsiveness. The issue is less, so if Allicent is deserving, and more so if her children are. So far, they bear the markings of selfish, hedonistic, and incompitent rulers. When Otto eventually dies, and allicent is old and frail, who will stop her children from going out of control? They're pretty much there already. It's similar to Cercei in a way that her children were her downfall. In the end, the throne falls to those deserving and undeserving all the same.
I'd also like to mention that the Strong family was also quite dutiful and competent, despite the whole infidelity problem. Lyonel Strong served dutifully for many years and gave pretty unbiased advice. By those standards, the Strong family(or what is left of it) make good candidates for the throne, even if through force rather than 'legal' sucession. However, Daemons claim is the only problem with that 😅.
Ain't you high on something? U really believe that the greens are all that u said 🤣🤣...they know politics more than anyone in team black ! The only person who's character is questionable is Aegon II but daemond is worse than him don't get me started about the kids who's their father is another man
I'm confused, what exactly did I say about the greens you don't agree with? Both Aemond and Aegon are unhinged in their own ways. Aemond might make a decent king but I personally think the power would drive him mad. He seems not much better than Daemon in regards to his obsession of power and jealousy of his brother on the throne. Neither Daemon or Aemond would be very peaceful kings, thinking more on conquest and power than 'the good of the realm' (whatever that may be). Allicent is an excellent politician, and so was her father, but her children did not inherit her gifts, and are all varyingly troubled people.@@just_by_luck
@@ThermitenAnd what about the Great Daeron ? Aka Jahaerys reborn
@@tywinlannister9391 Daeron in this case spawned from the line of Rhaenyra. Both Daerons really, the hot headed moron and the wise one.
@@juliancain3872 Daeron ? The son of Alicent ? From the line of Rhaenyra ?
Actually more houses support rhaenyra than Aegon counting most of the riverlands, the vale of Arryn (probably the most “andalic” of the kingdoms), the north, and even houses near aegon II power base in kingslanding like the rosbys and darkllyns and using tradition and customs as an argument means little, following this logic the Targaryen line of succession has been crooked since the accession of King Jaehaerys, who overrode the claim of his nieces, heiress of his older brother usurped by Maegor, Aegon the uncrowned , even in Andal customs a daughter comes before a brother, what many people don't understand is that what really matters in this medieval context, is that what really matters is the chain of oaths and loyalties between suzerain and vassal, whoever fought by Rhaenyra was either fulfilling her oaths with Viserys or were bound to her by blood like the Velaryon and Arryn, just as the Hightowers were doing with Aegon
1) The riverlords were intimated by Daemon into supporting Rhaenyra's claim. At the beginning of the war, he literally embarks on a campaign to the Riverlands where he scares the Riverlords with Caraxes into siding with the Black faction in the war.
2) Cregan Stark has a soft spot for Jace because he has a bastard sister whom he loves very much. He wants her to marry into the royal line and perhaps become legitimate, so that's the only reason why he supports Rhaenyra's cause.
3) Jeyne Arryn supports Rhaenyra because it's politically advantageous for her. By supporting Rhaenyra's claim (a female's claim), she is hoping to be allowed to retain lordship over the Vale.
4) The fact that Jaehaerys's claim prevailed over all of those female claimants just further proves my point that Aegon's claim is based on historical precedent and that male claimants have always prevailed over females. So why would things be different in this scenario?
@@thecriticalmaester9702dude, Sara Snow is only one of the versions and by far the least likely. Also, in the books Viserys was extremely open about Rhaenyra as his heir, he made her attend the council meetings as training for that role. Him remarrying and having more children was to have a counter in the case something happened to Rhaenyra. And in the books when Aegon was crowned the people were very confused because many thought of Rhaenyra as the heir. In regards to the Blacks competency, only Daeron showed promise, his elder brothers were no good
@@nicokrasnow1851 To be perfectly level with you all the Dance didn't present all that many good choices. It was either Daeron or Jace for me and they were either too far down the line or too dubious is legitimacy, the rest were either fucking insane or wholly unsuitable.
Team green 🟢🟩
You mean the faction with the r@pey inept king who was actively ignored as an heir are competent and legitimate?
Otto could easily be as competent as Rhaenyra's Hand...
Did you watch the whole video? I explained why Otto and the Green Faction are more competent than the Black Faction. And I also explained why Aegon's claim is the more legitimate one in the conflict between him and Rhaenyra. Even if Aegon is a r@pist, it doesn't change law and tradition.
@@thecriticalmaester9702 law is what the king wants. What did Viserys say about his heir? What power does Otto have once he's removed from the Handship by the incompetent r@pey boi (which actually happens in the books and will in the show)?
I don't think Rhaenyra is blameless but come on. It's just Hightowers and Maesters politicking to end up controlling Westeros. When they announced Rhae as the heir, Otto did nothing. Why? Because it took power away from Daemon, who was his political rival (because he was harder to manipulate). If it's law and tradition he cared about, well... He should have advocated for Daemon.
@@billiramone I agree that the law is what the king wants, but you should also remember - Viserys made Rhaenyra his heir BEFORE Aegon was born, and even afterwards he didn't reiterate to the kingdom that his wishes to have Rhaenyra as his heir had not changed. Many of those lords would've assumed that when Aegon was born things would change, so it would've fallen to Viserys to tell them that things wouldn't change. It was his responsibility to tell the realm that Rhaenyra was still his heir regardless of the fact that Aegon had been sired.
Also, it doesn't help that Viserys never prepared Rhaenyra to rule. He chased her away from small council meetings and never really groomed her for the huge responsibility that he said she was entitled to. Therefore, obviously many lords would be ambivalent about having her as a queen. The truth is, Rhaenyra simply doesn't have the same experiences in governance as someone like Otto or even Alicent has. She has never actually governed the realm and sat in the king's small councils as a serious politician, so how could she possibly be as competent as any member of the Green Council???
The show has chosen to depict Aegon as a r@pist (because they're biased against the Green Faction), but there is nothing in the book that describes him as being politically inept. In fact, Aegon leans on the advise of his councillors, whom he knows are more capable and experienced than he is. That's what a young ruler with no experience SHOULD be doing. In the book, Rhaenyra is absolutely not politically experienced or intelligent, and she becomes just as violent and mad as Daemon is. Daemon is her king consort and Hand, so even if she was leaning on his advise, would that truly be a good thing???
Daemon is absolutely mad. He is not diplomatic or good at politics. Small council meetings bore him and ruling is tedious work as far as he's concerned, so what kind of advise could he possibly give Rhaenyra??? The only way he knows to deal with a problem is to meet it with violence. The fact that Rhaenyra even made him one of her councillors speaks volumes about her own judgement as a leader.
So, Otto WAS RIGHT in the end. Daemon and Rhaenyra should not be the rulers of the realm. Better to have Aegon be the king, a young man who will listen to his experienced councillors, than to have those two mad men as the overlords of Westeros. 🤷♂
@@thecriticalmaester9702 I think it's best to talk about the show, the history books are admittedly biased (as per GRRM himself). Fun fact, the books mention in passing Aegon might be a p3do as well.
Vizzy was at dinner the night before he died and present when his own wife proclaimed Rhae as the future queen. Otto was trying to convince Vizzy to name Aegon his heir during the hunt. Why? Because it was clear Rhaenyra was the heiress.
Everything else is subjective. Aegon is a twat who gets himself burnt to a crisp, Aemond fails to strategise and loses King's Landing, and ultimately Aegon gets cornered and his death is mainly a kindness. Otto? Out of the picture and beheaded.
"Critical Maester" is kind of an oxymoron, I hope you're roleplaying and not interpreting things the way you actually are.
@@billiramone The books can be biased, yes, but just like real history, you have to engage with the text and figure out for yourself whether a detail is likely to have been true or not. Mushroom is the one who says that Aegon was a pedo, and Mushroom was in Dragonstone when he said that. How could he have known what Aegon was and what he was doing when he was found, especially when he hadn't been in King's Landing in years at the time??? And also, Mushroom is Rhaenyra's pet, so wouldn't he be more likely to be biased FOR RHAENYRA and AGAINST AEGON??? 🤔👀
Also, I didn't say that the Green Council didn't try to convince Viserys; what I said is that since Viserys never publicly proclaimed that the line of succession hadn't changed, there are some lords who would've believed that it had changed, especially since the male heir has always taken precedent over a female heir. The fact that Viserys never made it clear after Aegon's death TO THE WHOLE REALM that Rhaenyra was still his heir was a blunder. Many lords would've assumed that the line of succession had returned to normal after the birth of his son (in fact, Jason Lannister says as much in episode 3). It's not enough for Viserys to tell people his wishes in private, because the truth doesn't matter, only perception. In the eyes of many, Rhaenyra would've been illegitimate the moment that Aegon was born (a point that Otto constantly reiterates to Alicent). He's the rightful heir by law, tradition and historical precedent. 💯
Lastly, whether or not Aegon is a twat is irrelevant. I don't see the relevance of bringing up the fact that he burnt himself to a crisp in this discussion, because everyone made all sorts of blunders during the war. In fact, Rhaenyra got herself burnt to a crisp PERMANENTLY when she went to Dragonstone, like a fool, instead of staying put in Duskendale like the castellan told her. She ran King's Landing's economy to the ground and ostracized every powerful ally that she had on her side. She's objectively a fool. Where, in the book, does it say that Aegon was a terrible monarch??? 👀
Also, 'Critical Maester' is a damn cool name, leave me alone.😅
Well her father wanted her to rule and in the end its her son that needs to rule to get Dany where she ends up to be fighting with the white walkers. In the end indeed Aegon son of Rheanyra will end up on the throne as was meant to be. In the end it is not really the point who deserves it more looking at old way of doing things. It was just that Aegon of Rheanyra is more a dragon then the kids of the kids of the Greens. Apperiantly fate wanted the child of Rheanyra on the throne. That was the dream he was talking about. The difficult things is that both have Aegon son. but the Greens in the end only cared about their own growing power. That is the reason why so many real old families did inbreding. Because other families can take over the power and kill the rest. In the end traditions do not need to be continued. They only continue as long people want it to. These books are based on real history and sometimes placing a daughter was better then placing a sick son. As with Henry the 8th. Both of his daughter rules longer then his only son, because he died 19 years old. His daughter end up having an important ruling and not having kids for obvious reasons. They learned to not trust men since their own father let the mother be beheaded and the other daughter's mother was send away and was never allowed to see her own daughter. With bitterness with the children the father only wanted a son and did everything to get one even if he had to behead the wife. In the end it only lead to unncessary suffering. This is why at some point it ends. I mean important people often had bastards we already know Aegon produced bastards as well. The only difference is that apperiantly men could do anything and woman can't because they are seen as whores well men aren't even though they do the exact same thing. What also is strange is that her kids end up with brown hair while the kids of the greens have white hair. Looking at how genetics work its impossible. Genetics are not decided by gender, but by how dominant or recessive a colour is. From what we see with Rheanyra you would think that the silver hair is recessive while with her father and the greens the gene suddenly is dominant. It's simply incorrect and the fact that her kids got brown hair is why they even realized they were bastards. That is what bothers me. If they actually did how genetics really work... her kids would have had silver hair anyway and most people would not have known they were bastards, so the whole issue about the bastards would not even have taken place. This is a mistake in the story in my opinion haha. Also about recessive genes. There are colours that show up even though both parents have different colour hair for example red hair. Red hair is an example or a recessive gene, either both parents must carry it, have it or one have it and 1 carry it. Queen Elisabeth of the golden age had red hair and her both parents brown. Yet she was never seen as a bastard. She did try to get babies with Velaryan, but unsuccesfull. She had to get babies somehow. Her father should have accepted to let her marry Daemon inmediately and no issue was there.
The greens created a new problem and power issue against the Targaryens. Otto couldn't control Rheanyra neither Daemon. He wanted to control it and so his grandkids are on the throne. Targaryens don't control it at that point. In that sense the father shouldn't have remarried and get kids or he has to marry someone in close family ties to make sure no power struggles in the future might arise.
Otto wasn’t a great politician in the book or in the show. Don’t know if you’ve read it or not but from the Dance onwards he’s incompetent in gaining the support of the realms strongest lords, barely able to get support outside Westeros. He can barely even manipulate Viserys to deem Rhaenyra as heir, and the plot to marry him to Alicent was purely a stroke of luck for him.
He's a hand for times of peace not war.
Its ironic you dont mentioned the relationship between larys strong and alicent the dutiful where still her husband king viserys. And you not talking about of kin slaying of aemond which is a taboo in westoros
And it wasn’t a sin for Luke to cut out Aemond’s eye, for both Rhaenyra and Daemon killing their spouses, for Rhaenyra to demand Aemond be tortured, for Daemon to have Jaehaerys murdered? Not sure it counts as kinslaying when the other side refuses to see you as kin.
Wow, I never really thought about it in detail like that. You made me empathize with and respect Alicent and Otto a little more. I just went with the least common denominator logic. Which is, these guys are cooler and likable hence they should automatically rule. Plus, the fact that Rhaeneyra was the first woman to attempt to change the status quo, automatically drew me to her cause. But could we trust that the Greens would be able to control Aegon throughout his reign. Remember the mad king Aerys. He had the best hand in the history of Westeros, Tywin Lannister. But even Tywin was eventually worn out by an increasingly psychotic leader. What if Aegon had become Aerys? Would they have still been able to control him? I'm still team Rhaenys though. I think out of all of them, she would have been a competent ruler.
The greens deserve nothing. Otto deserves nothing. I'm secretaries people defending people who do nothing but scheme This dude basically ruin the seven kingdoms forever would put his blood on the throne and you all going to see in the next season. Just how much damage this guy really did
And when season 3 comes you'll understand lol.
well can u give us a reason to be team black?
Whilst male primogeniture is certainiy the custom in westeros, so was the first night, in the iron isles too the kingsmoot was the custom, yet both were done away with. In similar fashion, it is not necessary this continue. The current lords of westeros could maintain their titles and pass them on to their first borns regardless of gender, just as viserys wanted. Nobody suggested viserys give the throne to rhaenys when he established equal primogeniture.
Wielding the conquerors sword, wearingvthe conquerors crown, sitting the conquerors throne, bearing the conquerors name, shitting in the conquerors toilet, whilst it makes for a riveting speech, it doesn't make him the rightful king. Maegor the cruel had all that too, yet his brother had three sons whom all objectively came before him in the line of succession.
Why are you mentioning saera in your examples? Saera was younger than aemon and baelon.
.
Marrying again and fathering kids does not automatically mean viserys took back what he said. No more than walder frey delegitimised stevron frey when he remarried
Aegon does indeed have good councillors. And whats the first thing he does in the book with his best councillor?Oh yeah i remember, he fires him and replaces him with a bodyguard with no experience of ruling. This same guy then abandons kings landing and leaves it undefended btw.
Meanwhile what does rhaenyra do with her best councillor? She listens to him and usually compromises between his very reasonable suggestions and daemon's very radical ones. This shows effective rulership. It is only when corlys directly goes against her orders to arrest addam of hull that she gets rid of him. Granted her reasons for that were very flimsy but he still disobeyed her.
As for rhaenyra insulting the velaryons, this much is true, however the greens are guilty of this as well e.g what happens when aemond retakes harrenhal
I would argue a couple of your points. Their is a major difference between rulers ruling during war n peace time.
Rt relies on her advisors during the war because they have battlefield experience unlike herself. She later looses Valaryeons because of paranoia n nearly looses the north if it wasn’t for her son Jace security it.
Argon named criston as hand because Otto failed to secure certain alliances n have no experience at war. Aemond abandoned kings landing undefended while Aegon was immobilized.
The greens have proven to govern well n while we don’t see Aegon have any desire to rule it’s quite clear he has effective councilman to rule the kingdoms without him.
@jjosifovic except the decisions I'm referring are not military decisions.
The first decision in which she sided with corlys over daemon is the decision to not strip the lords of rosby and Stokeworth of their titles, grant them to their sisters and then marry said sisters to the dragonseeds. That's what daemon advocated. Corlys advocated what she actually did which is leave their titles alone (which proved detrimental for her later on).
The second decision I'm referring to is when corlys suggested sending peace terms to casterly rock and storms end and letting her brothers take the black. Daemon suggested stripping these castles from their rulers and granting them to ulf the white and hugh hammer.
In the end rhaenyra decided to spare casterly rock and storms end but not send peace terms until aegon and aemond were dead. I would say this fits more with corlys' idea since though they disagreed on how to treat her brothers, that's a short term thing whereas they more or less agreed on the long term thing which is how to treat the baratheons and lannisters.
When does she nearly lose the north? Point me to the sentence.
No he named criston as his hand because he git impatient with him and wanted a hand to get straight into battle. Otto was still trying to form alliances. Otto did fail to ally with dorne and the iron isles, but he got the triarchy which ultimately proved a very useful ally.
When aemond abandoned kings landing, criston Cole went with him which left it completely undefended. Aegon being immobilised means nothing. This single decision caused the death of aegon's son and heir maelor, whom could have been king instead of aegon III. It also caused everything that happened during rhaenyras rule of the city, including the death of otto and helaena and the storming of the dragonpit. There are no ifs ands or buts about it, the decision to leave kings landing unprotected whilst not taking any of the Royal family, small council or dragons out of the city was completely stupid.
That argument relies on him following his councils whims, which his treatment of his best councillor shows is not a given.
Except the greens aren't good politicians:
Otto is a terrible Hand actually, he expend most of his time as Hand of Viserys planning a coup. A Hand is supposed to help rule not plunge the realm into war. Otto Hightower is not dutiful, he doesn't act for the good of the people, he only does things for himself and his house. You can say this is something that anyone would do, and that may be true, but it doesn't make him a good Hand. Aegon fired him shortly after being crowned. Otto ignored the war of the Stepstones because it didn't suit him to act on it. In the show he pushed Alicent to Viserys bed because he wanted his blood on the throne. Maybe that it's something anyone else would have done as well, but it's not good for the realm. It's greed. Everything Otto does in the show or book is for his greed.
You say that there was no complains about Otto and Alicent's administration, that's not true. In the show, Mysaria goes as far as to blackmail Otro to get him to do something. The poor people of King's Landing were worse with them that they were with Daemon or Harwin as commanders of the City Watch. The Commander of the City Watch during the Hightowers rule was a green, Otto's son Gwayne.
Alicent in the show likes to say "we have to think of the cost to the people" but she really doesn't. Only in episode three does she show some interest in the good of the people, telling Viserys to do what's best for them about the war of the Stepstones. A war her father ignored. If Alicent has been ruling for the past six years (that is time skip between episode seven and episode eight) then she must know what happens in the city. If she knows and yet does nothing, she doesn't care enough.
Legitimacy must not matter all that much to the lords because the majority sided with Rhaenyra.
Also, Rhaenyra is not a bad politician. In the books the people loved her and fought for her, in the show she makes good points in the small council of episode 6 (points Alicent only rejects because she hates her) Daemon isn't a bad politician either, he doesn't like It sure, but he isn't bad.
Daemon is also really loved by the smallfolk, he knew what the Hightowers were longer than anyone, he is a good commander and while he makes enemies he also makes friends. The opinions people usually use in this kind of videos are Otto's opinions, he hates Daemon, and while he might be right in some he isn't in many others.
Well, Viserys's rule was peaceful and prosperous, so Otto did spend a lot of time helping Viserys. Also, I think that there is a difference between ruling during times of peace and ruling during times of war. Otto was a statesmen who mostly ruled during a time of peace, so he didn't have any experience with dealing with matters of warfare. This is where appointing Ser Criston Cole becomes a good decision.
Also, you must remember: in the book, Ser Criston Cole is not an idiot. He has a seat in the Green Council and he is very intelligent and competent as Lord Commander. Crowning Aegon was his suggestion in the book. However, on the show, his character has been reduced into an angry, sulking simp for Rhaenyra. The show has it's biases against the Green characters.
Okay, let's go back to Otto because you said a lot about him. I've said in a previous video that although Otto's decisions are mostly good for the realm that that doesn't mean that he is void of personal ambitions. Yes, he is a character that has his own motivations for doing things, but so is everyone else in the story. The difference is that most of Otto's decisions end up being good for the realm. For example, let's analyze his suggestion for Viserys to get rid of Daemon and to crown Rhaenyra instead. That decision is wise because Daemon is incompetent and undiplomatic, and he would be an absolutely terrible ruler to everyone else. No one likes the idea of him being in that position So what does Otto do? Well, he actually wants his daughter to be the queen, but he can't seem to be too ambitious otherwise Viserys will be suspicious of him (and so will the other councillors). So he names Rhaenyra in the meantime (a person who is already so beloved throught the realm), but he secretly arranges for Alicent to spend more and more time with the king. Obviously, this is a move of personal ambition, and Otto probably had a lot to do with Rhaenyra not being a part of small council meetings; but for Viserys to end up with Alicent would actually be a good thing.
Firstly, a relationship with the Hightowers (the House that is probably the most pious House in the realm) is good for the Targaryens because it endears them with the Faith. The Targaryens have been beefing with the Faith for years, so to cultivate a relationship with the most pious family in the realm is a sign of peace and reconciliation with the Faith of the Seven. Secondly, Alicent's children will further the line of succession, which is based on the customs that most of the Westerosi lords are already familiar with. So again, everybody wins. Yes, Otto wants for his family to have more power, but - well, I guess I don't understand how you don't see that this would also benefit the realm.
Also, Otto knows that Alicent is a dutiful girl with a good heart. He knows that she will be a good queen consort for Viserys... and he is right. Alicent (though she grows to become more and more villainous) is actually a very good queen that also cares a lot about Viserys. She actually takes care of him as he's dying. She is good and kind-hearted.
Okay, now let's talk about why a majority of the lords support Rhaenyra. Firstly, you must remember that I said that there was a difference between ruling at a time of peace and ruling at a time of war. These lords support Rhaenyra during the war, and it's all because of the actions that Daemon takes as it begins. Think back to the book. What does Daemon do when the war begins? He embarks on a campaign with Caraxes, into the Riverlands, and he basically intimidates the Riverlords into siding with Rhaenyra. Their choice is either to fight for Rhaenyra or to see their homes be razed to the ground. That's not much of a choice now is it? It makes sense for them to fight for her and live.
Notice how the Greens never use that tactic. Otto isn't used to warfare, so he doesn't know how to handle the situation. Rather, he does what he knows best, and that's using diplomacy to secure allies. He writes letters to the Free Cities to win over allies for the Green cause (and this works, by the way - just a bit too late). However, the point is that Daemon knows that he has to use the dragons in order to get support from the Riverlords, and Otto does not.
What about Rhaenyra's other supporters? Well, Jeyne Arryn wants to be the lady of the Vale, so she decides to support Rhaenyra's cause in order to make that dream come true. In the north, Cregan Stark has a bastard sister. That's why he has such a soft spot for Jacaerys when he comes to secure his support. That's the only reason why they become friends, by the way. Other than these reasons, the lords of Westeros don't have much love for Rhaenyra or her faction. They are all just using her for their own political reasons - or because they're terrified of having their homes burned to ash.
I will admit that the common people did love Rhaenyra, though... until she started imposing high taxes on them. Rhaenyra is good at ruling in times of war but she doesn't know how to rule in times of relative peace. She had the capital all to herself with no opposition, and she still failed because she's an incompetent ruler. In episode 6, that was not a good suggestion. She says that there are farmers that would know how the land was divided, but to solve the issue is not as simple as that. The people from that area are so divided, and the feud between the Brackens and the Blackwoods is so so so ancient, that even asking the farmers would just lead to further conflict. When asking these farmers questions, you have to consider a number of things:
a) Which House do the farmers themselves support? (The answer to this question could influence the credibility of their suggestions).
b) The farmers farm over a tract of land that was given to them by one of the feuding lords. So would the suggestions that they give be biased as a result of that? Have the farmers been intimidated by either of the lords?
Rhaenyra doesn't consider any of this. She just makes the decision straight away and doesn't even listen to what other, more experienced council members have to say. So no, she is not a very competent ruler, and neither is Daemon.
Daemon is loved in King's Landing because he was able to reduce the crime rate, but that's the only thing that he is good at - wanton violence and bloodshed. He is not a competent administrator of justice; he doesn't even give the people in his custody a fair trial. He basically kills everyone who has ever been accused of a crime, and then hopes for the best. What if one of those people were innocent?
How is Alicent a good queen? There is no proof of this, as I said she talks a lot about "doing what's right for the people" but we never see her do anything for them. Mysaria in episode nine complains to Otto about the state of the City under his reing and Alicent's. We see the fighting pits and we hear how the Gold Cloaks look away with Otto's son as one of the men in charge.
How is that good? Otto and Alicent don't give a shit about the common people even their decisions in the books and show are centered around their ambition and that of the lords.
The Houses that supported Rhaenyra did so even after her death, at the very least they were loyal to her while the Greens poisoned the usurper and killed his only remaining legitimate child. The Green supporters aren't looking for the best for the realm either they are looking for the best for themselves. The blacks may not be saints but are far less terrible that the Greens.
In episode six Rhaenyra talks about fortifying the Stepstones and Alicent shuts her down saying that there is not enough money, in the time jump she has a lot of Seven related decoration in the Keep. That costs money, a lot in fact if the Seven are a anything like the Church.
@@sofiadacasa3251 Let’s be real those lords only supported her because of the oath Viserys MADE them swear as he wanted rhyneara as his heir. Honorable houses like the Starks and Tullys are not oath breakers and if they didn’t swear that oath would definitely just stay out of the war as it would not help them with anything. Viserys decision was selfish and never thought of what was best for them realm.
@@sofiadacasa3251 Not to mention that Rhyneara literally through a huge birthday party for her son when she knew that the iron throne had no money whatsoever, she takes no responsibility for her actions as when she says the bracken and Blackwood situation needs looking into even though she is the one who made it worse episodes prior when she let one kill the other one when looking for a suitable husband. Alicent knows what needs to be done and handles situations to the best of her abilities as Queen
@@user-jj2lv4tp5k Yes, they swore because Viserys made them, but many of them didn't break their oaths, which is what matters. Rhaenyra could have ascended peacefully if not for the Greens
How can the greens claim to be loyal/dutiful when they refuse to accept the kings designated heir?
Yes let's support a weak King who chose a selfish and promiscuous girl as the next ruler !
It's the way she was named heir. She was named heir when she was the only option, and the more favorable one, since no lord wanted Daemon on the throne. When Aegon was born, it would have been right to name him heir, but that never happened. Viserys not only spit into centuries long of tradition, but he did so for only one generation. Rhaenyra would be the first ruling queen for a while, the next only would happen in a succession crisis. After Rhaenyra, boys would be favoured as always. Viserys did that bc he wanted to, he felt entitled so, as king. He did that without any basis, didn't even change succession laws. Rhaenyra wouldn't have changed them either, in ep8 clearly saying to Rhaenys that Jaces and Baelas first born son, not child, will inherit the throne.
You can twist to say it was dutiful to remain to set standards, to a law, if Viserys actually changed it and lectured Rhaenyra, there would be less reason to deny his wish. But he brought upon a succession crisis
Also by that logic Rhaenys was usurped, she had the bigger claim. She was the oldest child of the heir at the time, Viserys was the son of the younger son of the King. She was snubbed big time though. I support Team Green, but when it comes to Rhaenys and Viserys, Rhaenys all the way, no competition.
Also let's not forget that Rhaenyra steals Baelas right to Driftmark, Laenor doesn't have trueborn kids, his sister does, Baela should have gotten Driftmark, idc. And again, Viserys says "screw that", and Luke gets it.
"Deserves to rule" is irrelevant. Thats called a democracy where people decide who is more fit to rule. This is a monarchy. The first born son is heir is common tradition. Unless its over turned by the current ruler by officially naming an heir. If first born son is such a tradition then why do rulers feel the need to officially announce that said first born son is their heir? Shouldn't it be obvious? Officially naming your heir is to make sure that there is no mistake or misunderstanding about who will be taking the throne after your gone. It shuts down those who "deserve it" or those who are "better suited" or those who would claim are more "legitimate." Because anybody can make these claims REGARDLESS of their validity and truth.
Aegon the Conqueror was already Lord of his house by way of tradition that was decided already by that House. His older sister could not make any claim because the decision of tradition was already made. What makes you think she held anymore claim once the 7 Kingdoms were conquered?
If Rhaenyra was in such dire need of advisors then the Greens should step in and offer their services. And just because little Aegon was closer in proximity to the crown and sword than Rhaenyra after the King dies, does not automatically make him King/the winner. I happen to be closer to the pots and pans at a gourmet restaurant and now its dinner time. Does that make me the Head Chef?
Only the Powerful can hold onto said power and therefore have the right to Rule. As we all know, it didnt matter what trinkets, religious backing, claims of legitimacy, or traditional values the Greens had. The Blacks proved to be more powerful regardless of Rhaenyra's or Aegon's claim to the throne.
None of this "who deserves what" and the lost lives of thousands would have happened had everyone remembered that "The Kings Word is Law."
Go Blacks!!
Using fire and blood as a 100% accurate source is wrong on so many levels, it was written from the POV of a Maester, the Maesters are in old town, they are sponsored by the hightowers, they are obviously going to say that Rhaenyra was fat and looked old, while allicent was the most beautiful woman in the 7 kingdoms
In the show, Rhae isn't fat and old, but the maesters sure were right about Allicent! She's a 10. Rhae has nothing on her
That was tradition not law, Male Primogeniture was a tradition not law, everyone can break that tradition, but Law is different and kings can make laws.
Aint it treason though to pass bastards as true born?