Kinda, but also when you are running a production with tens of millions or even hundreds of millions in backing, you are expected to deliver. Athletes have a bad week and people want their head, a whole season and the owners are looking at other options. Some directors seem to be immune to this and continue to make bomb after bomb though.
It's ridiculous how certain figures in Hollywood (not just directors) get kicked to the curb with one misstep, or worse yet, don't even get opportunities in the first place, while others keep inexplicably finding work.
Someone tweeted about this, and Greg Silverman, former president of WB actually tweeted back and clarified “Not true. We lost some money on GAHOOLE and a fair amount on SUCKERPUNCH. The rest of his films at WB were very profitable. Very.”
He never delivered the insane amount of money Marvel produced in it's golden age, but most of his films have been profitable. Furthermore, he has a legion of fans that will watch anything he makes, so a certain base level of profit is almost guaranteed with his films as long as he keeps budgets under control.
@@ThaninViriyaki Yeah, I heard about it. And just like anyone with a working brain, find it very strange how the guy didn't provide any evidence for what he said. Yet there is plenty of evidence to prove him wrong.
The biggest problem with Babylon, was its marketing along with its name. All they were showing in trailers were people dancing, drinking, having sex and doing drugs. . There was no interesting dialogue or premise of what the movie was really about in its marketing. So, no one showed up.
Agreed. The transition from silent films to sound is a very interesting era for me, but I never knew Babylon was about that, so I ignored it for a long time.
A three hour passion project about the most self absorbed subject a filmmaker can tackle was given 80 million in production costs alone. I totally agree that the producers are just as liable as the director.
Niche movie, way over budget for expected market, started watching it and didn’t care for the style - streaming- would not have gone to cinema to see it either. That doesn’t mean it shouldn’t have been made. Just budgeted/filmed appropriately
It's way too soon to say either way with Damien Chazelle or James Mangold. But I'm shocked no one here has mentioned Tom Hooper with Cats. Guy won an Oscar for directing and hasn't even been heard of since Cats.
James Mangold has already a Swamp Thing movie lined up for DC, if Gunn/Safran get DC Studios in a good place I'd say a Mangold directed Swamp Thing is easy money after what he did for Wolverine.
@@LostFanaticBenLinus Possibly. Looking it up, they both came out at the end of 2019, so it’s possible. At most, he was working on them at the same time.
All of Kubrick’s movies made studios money, that’s why studios gave him what ever he wanted . . Ridley Scott has a much more erratic box office record but when he hit big, it was huge.
Yup, also why Kubrick never went to movie jail. I suppose part of it was a strong trust in him from Warner Bros., which not a lot of directors get. Kubrick could get his budget + time + control because he was able to successfully deliver solid movies that, in addition to being good, also didn't lose money. Other director's were bigger, but WB wanted to be in the Stanley Kubrick business. Scott is more of a working mans director than Kubrick. Part of it always feels like Scott is trying to catch up on movies he wasn't able to make because he got started directing at 40ish as opposed to in his 20s or 30s. But by dint of having so many movies to make, it stands to reason some of them might be missteps (majorly in the case of Napoleon, but the man loves his historical epics).
@@Syntopikonwell outside of this superhero movie era Warner was one of the most approachable for many directors simply for their legacy. Even Snyder was given so much money for Watchmen at the time to the point you have an animated film and a whole mockumentary on the first Nite Owl that is 20 minutes long. Clint Eastwood is another who yes has had a series of flops in recent years, still was allowed to make films with Warner. In fact Clint had stayed loyal with WB since his first directorial work. It’s also a reason why I like a group like Sony Pictures Classics where their films carry actual weight of directors and their authorship onto their films. I unfortunately have to root for the dumb major movies Sony makes just to keep SPC alive.
Not true. 2001was bad enough that he had to do Clockwork Orange to prove that he could make a movie cheap. And he only made The Shnng becuse he needed a hit after Barry Lyndon. Most Kubrick movies where not appreciated on release and only got credit about 10 years alter.
@@AgentLemmon The Shining made 47m on a 13m budget, so it more than broke even. Clockwork Orange was even better, grossed 114m on a budget of just 1.3m
people seem to forget it but Akira Kurosawa was in director jail in Japan in the mid to late 70's after Dodeskaden and quitting/fired from Tora Tora Tora. He was only able to get KAGEMUSHA made because Coppola, Lucas, Spielberg came to the rescue.
Yup. He's delivered consistently good + successful movies. Dune 1 would've done better had it not been for things being up in the air thanks to the pandemic. But he's one of the few directors I can think of that has delivered successful original movies like Prisoners, Sicario, and Arrival.
You just called all the non fans of Villeneuve's idiots. As a non fan, I have to say that Villeneuve tries to imitate Tarkovsky and Kubrick, but fails due to the simple fact that he doesnt seem to understand what made their movies great. Be it Stalker or 2001, they were all engaging in one way or another. Incendies and Arrival were his best works, because there was no big need for exposition and when needed Villeneuve stayed true to himself and didnt have to reach (the sequence about Heptapods was a nod to his early career as a documentary filmmaker and was both necessary and well balanced, given the subject matter). Arrival really won because of Villeneuve's brooding and contemplative style, not in spite of it. Dune movies, on the other hand, required exposition dump, required character engaging scenes, but they were all equally distant and sterile, so non readers missed so much and book readers only had nods and references to much important stuff. So, I think, Villeneuve doesnt respect characters, doesnt respect dialogues, doesnt respect traditional narrative structure, which doesnt necessarily have to be a bad thing, but he should choose projects wisely, he is very limited, relying too much on set pieces to carry emotional engagement, reminiscient of "theme park movies" which do have dialogues, but they, just like Villeneuve's movies, exist as a prelude to the real meat of the movies - set pieces, or action pieces, if you will.
Babylon was released in a time where counter programming doesn’t exist. Babylon should’ve done moderately well (though the high budget would always be an issue) as the adult drama placed against the general audience big blockbuster, but the previous Christmas had a similar situation with West Side Story, Licorice Pizza, and Nightmare Alley all being major flops against Spider-Man. The barbenheimer meme was so large that we had an exception, but otherwise it’s been hard for non IP blockbusters to compete against the tent poles in the current times.
Especially when the tentpoles cast such an overwhelming shadow, as Avatar: The Way of Water did. Both were 3+ hour films, but in order to sell that to a lot of people, they need to buy the fact that the director can deliver 3+ hour worth of solid content.
@@Syntopikon and the major studios get every theater and showing booked too. Spider-Man and Avatar both played on most screens in any multiplex in all kinds of different formats. Tom Cruise had this exact problem when Paramount set a hard date for M:I7 right before with the double whammy of Barbenheimer, thus the movie got reduced to barely any screens only a week in. And that was for a $300m film too. Imagine what a 50m goes through in that scenario
I thought the film was interesting if you’re interested in the change of silent Hollywood to films with sound. The history of the silent era & its end.
@@SyntopikonI wish James Cameron would do something else. He’s very talented but some people, including myself, are bored of avatar by now.but I guess he’s helping cinemas in a way. Random kinda 😅
Hollywood is a dark place man, if a struggling director refuses to take the studio's shitty project then that director is banned to ever work in the industry. Same goes for the actors and the actresses. A proper puppet technique.
I think the older model of "one for me, one for you" worked well. That way, the studios were happy that a director made a hit for them and a director was happy that the studio funded their passion project (which could be a hit, too).
No one has a divine right to make movies: unless they pony up the dough themselves. Feel free to be a bartender, doctor, lawyer or construction worker: plenty of opportunities for those.
Actors are given far more chances. The only way to ruin your career as an actor is with sexual assault allegations or saying something offensive on the internet
I think that one caught everyone by surprise. I think most assumed musical's were a bygone genre (in terms of box office performance). Now, it seems as though we're getting more musicals BUT they're not being marketed as such.
It fucks me off because we're in a period where studios blame audiences for not seeing their movies, yet they either start advertising these things like a month before they come up; 2 years before we'll even see anything else on it, or just not at all. And I'm getting sick and tired of being blamed for something flopping, when it's marketing is so piss poor.
Yeah, it seems like there's always a blitz at the announcement and then in the last couple months before release, but I'm surprised they don't have more of a drip marketing campaign for movies. Maybe it's because it won't work, but I dunno why they don't start releasing behind the scenes footage that doesn't give stuff away in the mid-range lead up. I'd find that more interesting than another perfunctory actor interview.
Let's not pretend as if the audience have no part to play because even I am guilty of this, I would rather watch something from an established IP than a new movie so I get what you mean but some of us are just butterbrains
@@jeffersonhassan4558for me if I hear buzz a good marketing campaign I’m intrigued. With IP it really depends. I loved the marvel movies but now I skip their theatrical releases bc it isn’t worth the money and it’s expensive to see a movie (besides the Deadpool & wolverine). The movies that have caught my attention have been trying something new and/or had great marketing off the top of my head these are the movies that caught my interest enough to spend the money or I only missed out bc I was broke and if I had the money I would have gone Barbie Oppenheimer Deadpool & Wolverine Bodies bodies bodies Everything everywhere all at once Bottoms Dune pt 1 & 2 Challengers No hard feelings
if youre gonna make a 3 hour long movie you gotta bring back the early 1900s practice of INTERMISSIONS, some of us gotta pee and would rather watch that stuff at home so we can pause
I'm glad they do intermissions for Indian films, and most of them are even filmed around where the intermissions are placed to get you excited for what happens next.
I’m so tired of the 2.5 hour movies! If you have enough movie to fill 2.5 hours (everything everywhere all at once, RRR), ok, but most just DON’T. Most 2.5 hour movies need an ax taken to them to shave 30-60 minutes.
Damien Chazelle isn’t even in movie jail. He has a new movie at Paramount slated for next year. Budget is smaller, but he is still working with the same studio
That’s not the only thing that’s wrong, there are many little error’s I wanted to write a comment correction some but I think this video is probably ai written so that would be to much work for something like this.
Shyamalan is a risk taker, loves what he does, not for everyone but great choices from him. His choice to put his house on mortgage could have been a disaster but it paid of in the long run.
It's pretty admirable. A true entrepreneur. Most of the movies since The Visit were self-funded, and he does his best work with small, weird movies as opposed to blockbusters.
sure but overall he’s not that great a filmmaker. if the majority of what you are making even if you are taking risks if they are failing than that’s not a good sign
@@paulelroy6650 I don't know your understanding of "Great filmmaking". i believe engagement with the story and caring about the characters as great filmmaking techniques/storytelling, and most of his films achieve this, so yes to me he is a great filmmaker. Failing financially does not equal bad film, just bad luck.
@@Myspace757 That's a very vague way of talking about it lol. Espeically since character-drama tends to be Shyamalan's biggest problem. He is an idea person and he is generally good at building up tension and atmosphere and that's it. His films, from the plot and characters perspective, are some of the weakest movies of their time. His characters speak more like exposition robots then actual people. Even his latest movie relies on extremely contrived plot and plot-induced stupidity to drive itself.
He’s fine I honestly think he’s talented. I liked whiplash and la la land but neither stay with me years later. Moonlight did. Women talking does prisoners. Whiplash is well written but to me the majority of its success rest on JK Simmons. He’s gonna make anything great. Also gosling made la la land.
I never knew that M. Night Shamamalan took out a loan against his house just to make The Visit and another loan to make Split. That’s some hardcore dedication that paid off. He basically flexed on everyone saying that he’s still got it. Not every film he makes will be a hit, but I’m always eager to see whatever he’s cookin. M. Night or BUST!
@@GaryKetchum808 Totally. When I checked his filmography prior to editing that reply, it was that and After Earth (based on a story idea by Will Smith) that stood out as exceptions.
Babylon was such a bizare experience. It starts with an elephant shiting itself and I was like "what the actual fuck is this?" and for a while it wasn't doing much for me, but then we get to that chaotic scene where Nellie is shooting her first talkie scene and I was blown away, and after that the film kept getting crazier but also more beautiful and at the end, while almost bawling my eyes off, I was like "ok, this is fucking amazing". One of my favourites from that year. It was like Singing In the Rain meets The Artist (both films I love) but on cocaine.
The saddest part of this is that Damien Chazelle's Babylon is one of the best films I've ever seen in this century. I still believe that he will survive through movie jail fairly easily.
If there's a "movie jail", then there's a "Get free out of jail" card around because there's also too many writer directors making money despite making sh1t...
The fact that David O. Russell still has numerous upcoming projects attached to his name despite making garbage like Amsterdam that lost so much money (or more importantly imo, despite being an absolutely horrible human being with numerous abuse/sexual assault allegations, including from his own niece) is something I cannot for the life of me understand
I bailed after 30 seconds. This guy’s dictation is atrocious. I’m not surprised there’s factual errors in it. It sounds like this guy is reading about a subject he has no interest and/or knowledge in, off a teleprompter. It’s a shame because this could be an interesting topic to make a video about, preferably by someone who actually cares about the subject they’re talking about instead of some hack trying to get Ad views. There’s way too much of this shit going down on RUclips these days and I’m pretty sick of it. Either way, I’d rather hear nails on a chalkboard as opposed to this voice for another 30 seconds. You guys are braver than me.
The story of Heaven's Gate is more telling than that. UA took outside money on the production, not unusual, but they took part in dealing with Cimino, which meant he was directly funded by first-time producers from completely outside the industry. As filming went along, spending more and more, the newbies stepped in and demanded to know where all the money was going. Cimino showed them a "sizzle reel" filled with beautiful shots that were put together with painstaking detail, so much detail that he described the clothing on extras being handmade and period correct for the time. This looked and sounded amazing to the producers, so they just let him go. They didn't get dailies, and they didn't ask questions after that, assuming he would blow the market away with his passion project. UA had little to do with the actual production. Amateurs. Yeah, Cimino went crazy with the money, and everyone got what was coming to them. EVERY movie needs cost controls. Dealing with them effectively is half the creativity of the profession. On that subject, RIP Roger Corman, we need him now more than ever. There's no GOOD reason we shouldn't have an army of low-budget auteurs slamming together original films for $250k all over the streaming services.
It also depends on how much you want a Hollywood career. I dont see Cox as the type who went around LA kissing ass and begging for a second chance after Walker.
@@unkopower7899 Firstly that and secondly Cox is a respected cult figure one of the directors who made your favorite directors' favorite movies type of guys.
For me, one of the most interesting directors that ended up in movie jail is Dennis Hopper. His first movie (Easy Rider) not only was box office success, it changed Hollywood's cultural and industrial landscape forever. Then he made The Last Movie, which was a risky and experimental film that bombed (I like it very much but its certainly not a movie for everyone), for which he didnt direct another film for 30 years. The worst thing about this is that the studio didnt like the movie when they saw it prerelease and couldnt change the final cut because Hopper had full creative control, so they sabotaged the movie releasing it only in a few cinemas (the minimum required by contract) for only a couple of weeks. I recommend you watch it, even if you dont like it I think it is a special kind of movie that encapsulates the wild artistic vision of its author and reflects on the movie industry and how it effects the people in it and around it.
Bryan Singer was not involved with Dark Phoenix. He was fired from Bohemian Rhapsody with roughly 3 weeks left of production and hasn't directed a new film since. Bohemian Rhapsody, I should add, made over $900 million on a roughly $50 million budget, while also winning the Golden Globe for Best Drama and 4 of the 5 Oscars it was nominated for. I should also mention that Dark Phoenix was held back by BOTH Fox during and Disney after their merger and the last 40 minutes of the movie were completely scrapped, re-written and re-filmed so that elements originally intended for the film could be directed toward other MCU properties. Disney brought in a ghost crew to finish it up, as many of the people that started working on the film were let go when Disney took over. It was originally meant to be a two-part film, but Disney ultimately had it sent off to die so they could integrate the X-Men brand back into their mainstream Marvel media.
I'd argue Simon Kinberg wasn't going to cook something good with Dark Phoenix anyways, whenever there's a Blade: Trinity scenario going on with a production you just know there's a shit show coming.
Kinberg has the ability to do good work, but it seems he needs to be steered in the right direction rather than taking the wheel himself. Regardless of the man's personal life, both Days of Future Past and (to a lesser extent) Apocalypse were far better films than The Last Stand and Dark Phoenix thanks to Bryan Singer driving his own vision. Then enter Brett Ratner, who was basically the "camera-for-hire" on the third movie, but letting Kinberg take on a $200 million production of that magnitude as his directorial debut was asking for trouble. Along with David Goyer doing double duty on Blade Trinity, Frank Miller writing and directing The Spirit is another good example of what not to do helming your first big movie.
I’m shocked no one mentioned Josh Trank and _Fant4stic_ because his rapid rise and fall was one of the most dramatic examples of it. Although admittedly that also means it really deserves a video of its own.
Babylon, a movie that critiques the golden age of Hollywoods abscesses and debauchery by showing it in full display is the one that bombed for Chazelle. Ironic and poetic.
One director who I believe is in movie jail is Richard Kelly. He became huge after his debut film Donnie Darko became a massive hit on DVD and he used the attention from that to make his passion project, Southland Tales, which failed critically and commercially. The next year he came out with his next film, The Box, which also failed. To this day, he still hasn't directed a movie.
Robert Townsend is another great example. Hollywood shuffle was a movie made for 40 to 60K. To be more specific he maxed out his credit cards. The return on the movie was 5 million dollars… that’s insane. Next thing you know he’s making a big budget movie called meteor man with pretty much every black celebrity except Denzel, Washington and Wesley Snipes . The film cost 20 million to make and it’s returned was a poultry eight Million. He never truly had a shot to make a big budget film again.
That's a solid point. I know a lot of directors have described having a small budget as something of a forcing function for creativity: you lack the money, so you MUST get creative (in writing, acting, directing, or even cutting corners [safely]). Kevin Smith seemed to be the same way - Clerks was great but as his budgets got bigger, movie quality suffered.
No it’s not. Because he didn’t go from Hollywood Shuffle to Meteor Man. He directed Eddie Murphy’s Raw. Then The 5 Heartbeats. And there was no jail for him. He was back directing by 97. 4 years after MM. And, Hollywood doesn’t put you in jail while allowing you to create and star in your own TV show, The Parent ‘Hood as well as Townsend TV.
I’m talking about big budget films… yes, I know about raw I own it. I’m not gonna count concert films as the same. Also, I said in my original comment “ the next thing you know” I never said he immediately moved to make a $20 million film. He ran out of money on the five heartbeats… and it was a struggle for him. We’re talking about why opportunities are taken away after let’s say a 20 million film flops and you’re not given an opportunity to create a big budget film again. TV before streaming was pretty much jail time for actors, writers, and directors who were cast out by holly wood Studios. Netflix changed the game .
@@keithwalker3989The next thing LITERALLY means the next thing. Lol 20 million ain’t a big budget movie. And he was given opportunities. Townsend was never in jail. He just isn’t a good/great director. Stop digging.
I really tried to like Babylon, but it felt like overflowing visual bloat with a bunch of pretty pictures, and the story was hugely boring around the cast. I understand that the narrative style was almost like the rhythm of a musical, but despite its massive visual style, it felt really hollow. But maybe I'm alone in my opinion.
Also there was nothing really new in what it was trying to say or do. -The transition from silent movies to talkies and the downfall of a silent era star was just covered in The Artist. -The over the top debauchery was seen in The Wolf of Wall Street. -The whole Tobey Maguire sequence was almost entirely a carbon copy of the Alfred Molina scene in Boogie Nights. -And then there was the “history of film” highlight reel at the end that made me more queasy than the elephant diarrhea seen at the beginning of the movie 😂 🤢 Hopefully Chazelle can learn from this and bounce back because Whiplash, La La Land and First Man are all great and he’s got too much talent to disappear entirely
I agree, I thought the movie boring, over the top without substance, and the end was trying to be pretty and dramatic, but it was in fact too long and also boring. And Margot Robbie is playing Harley Queen all over again, she has this character type at least 4 times in her career, it is exhausting.
@@isaacs3822 Carbon copy of the Alfred Molina scene in Boogie Nights? I'm sorry, but, did we see the same scene? While it is tonally very similar, the things that actually happened in the scene and how it unfolded are all completely different. It is not at all a copy of the other scene, even if it was definitely inspired by that scene.
If only the fact that the movies are bad would be a reason for movie jail, then Michael Bay and Zach Snyder wouldn't have had a career in a long time. But since RoS made a lot of money, he's more like in a personal exile than movie jail.
Damien Chazelle's career is not wrecked lol. He's already got another in the movie in the works and signed a deal with Paramount post-Babylon. Every great director misses once in a while.
Paul Schrader is a good example of a guy who's been to movie jail multiple times, but always managed to stay up directing low budget stuff and come back with a banger after a while. Richard Kelly is one very sad example. Southland Tales was an ahead-of-the-time masterpiece that was sadly misunderstood and messed up theatrically. I hope with the recent resurgence of Southland Tales and its growing cult status he will get another chance - he hasn't done anything since The Box. One person who was in movie jail for around a decade, which was absolutely criminal, was David Cronenberg - the fact that one of the greatest and most influential directors of all time couldn't manage to get a movie made for almost a decade, had multiple projects cancelled, and had to resort to writing a book and playing supporting characters in TV shows in order to get some money for Crimes of the Future...
Paul Schrader strikes me as something of a difficult case in that I'm not sure that he's in, or ever was, in movie jail, insomuch as he just didn't want to be a big part of the system. Directors like Greta Gerwig, Damien Chazelle, and M. Night strike me as ambitious individuals that want/wanted to play with the biggest canvas available. But I never got that feeling from Schrader. He always struck me as someone who preferred to do smaller films but with creative control - and didn't want to cede any of the latter. As someone who enjoyed Donnie Darko, I feel the same about Richard Kelly and hope he's able to make a comeback. Unfortunately, he's been out for so long that each passing year might be a strike against him. But, then again, Hollywood loves nothing more than a prodigy making a comeback. Kelly was like 25/26 when he did Donnie Darko and it's been almost that many years since the movie came out. Cronenberg has always struck as one of those directors that one should be happy to fund because he creates interesting work. It's kind of like Guillermo del Toro or Paul Thomas Anderson in that regard. Will their movies make money? It'd be nice if they did. But will they craft something great that, if nothing else, will bring your studio some recognition, either awards or a cult-like following? That's a safe bet.
Another director in Movie Jail multiple times: Ridley Scott. He started out promising with Alien but then Blade Runner and Legend failed at the box office (although they became remembered as cult classics especially the former) then he came back with Thelma & Louise, and he just kept going back and forth with hits and misses. It seems likely he’ll be in Movie Jail only temporarily.
It's honestly makes me sad that Babylon flopped, at first I was mixed on it, but rewatching it again, I adore the movie a lot, hell I would say it's better 3 Hour film that came out in 2022 than Avatar: The Way of Water. Yeah the marketing is definitely to blame for the movie flopping, while some would also say because of that one winter storm that came into almost the entirety of the US and it was so bad that a lot of theaters closed down.
Yup. And there was also the fact that it was competing with Avatar. I think a delayed or earlier release could’ve worked in its favor. Excellent profile pic lol
Movies should be released world wide at the same time. It would create more buzz by allowing more people to speak about it online while it's current everywhere.
It’s still baffling that some of these films cost as much as they do. A listers and sets are the two biggest costs, and when you have a film that has both, you’d better be sure it’s going to appeal to the masses.
The thing that's lowkey upsetting is Babylon was a really good movie and maybe if the marketing wasn't so bad and it was released earlier in the year (or even the next year) it could've been a humongous box office success and another Oscar success but I think the main thing that brought Babylon down was the god awful marketing. Babylon deserved better!
I used to work with the guy that did the technical execution (I'm not sure of the exact title, but he was in charge of stuff like the CG rendering pipeline) for cats. That film took down a 700 person company, among other things. The stories are pretty wild. Apparently one of the reasons they were sending out edited versions to the cinemas after it had been released was that the director thought it would be so good that it would get nominated for an oscar.
I'm surprised that you didn't mention David Robert Mitchell, he directed It Follows and the follow up Under The Silver Lake was basically buried by A24 until it was begrudgingly released on streaming. Such a good movie that sadly wasn't given a proper run by the distributor.
James Mangold is already on his way directing his next movie A Complete Unknown about musician and singer Bob Dylan. Despite the poor box office performance of Dial of Destiny (which I did like then most people), Mangold has proven himself on and off that he can make studio movies in various genres and budgets to both commercial and critical success. One of the reasons he managed to move from Dial of Destiny to A Complete Unknown is because he was already attached to make the latter around the same time he was asked to do Dial of Destiny. So he was always going to jump to A Complete Unknown no matter what, and he’s currently filming it right now. However, I do think it’s very obvious that budget for A Complete Unknown is not anyway near the 250 to 300 plus million dollar range 😂.
I started working for HBO in 1994 and have watched this industry collapse. Hollywood would be doing so much better if they could give more opportunity to indie directors who understand how to stay within budget.
I am anticipating the first A.i. directed film. Most of the audience do not appreciate good cinema, they just want something which is mildly entertaining.
Really interesting, I had never before heard of "Movie Jail" though it makes sense and could explain why some new directors I enjoy (that don't make blockbusters though) tend to disappear really quickly or enter the indie scene. If I can give some constructive criticism may I recommend trying to have some more fluctuation in your voice? It's soft and nice to hear but tends to be a bit monotone. Fantastic video nonetheless, loved it :) super informative and gave a lot of info but made it super easy to consume.
Thanks for the constructive criticism! Yeah, I'm trying to change the voice and I think I've improved over older videos, but still got a long way to go. I speak in the videos as I do normally, so on one hand, it's unvarnished. But will try to inflect a lot more going forward (though it'll probably take several videos to get into the swing of things).
John Waters, Francis Ford Coppola, Terry Zwigoff are all in directors jail. Even David Lynch has had recent problems finding funding for his new animation project
@@StellaAdler_"I stopped watching it 10 mins in" "What people loved about it baffles me, that's not art".... Yeeeah u didn't watch the movie, u clown, how would u know?
@@Syntopikon maybe *First Man* would have made more money if he didn't delete the American flag raising on the Moon. When people heard that, it turned a lot of people off. Like it or not, the Apollo program was done for national pride and achievement. To eject the very point of _why_ we went was a major disservice. I still really like the movie, I just wish that he didn't pander to the Left and didn't feel ashamed about making a movie about American Exceptionalism.
directors careers dont get 'wrecked' by one movie. I've seen bad movies from Speilberg, Scorsese, Hitchcok, Coppolla, Welles, Eastwood, Allen, Polanski, Leone, Scott...
Babylon is probably the best film of the 20s. Its stature is growing by the year. Calling it right now, it's gonna be on everyones top 10 list by the end of the decade.
I thought knowing was actually cool but he deserved his jailtime sentence for Gods of egypt How you gonna make a movie about gods in egypt and put snow white blonde people in there instead of egyptaisn and middle esstern folk
M. Night Shyamalan is an interesting one: Sitxh Sense was OUTSTANDING and he never made another movie that impacted culture and movieland like this one. He definetly disappointed every Last Airbender-Fan on the planet but he managed to make DECENT movies. Im not EXCITED about his films but im always interested. The Happening, The Visit, Split, Old and Knock at the Cabin are decent entertaining movies. I was surprised how much his last movies entertained me even though they are on some levels even "dumb". I will definetly see his upcoming movie. Not at the cinema but i will likely rent it on Amazon for 4.99$ when its available for rent. Its cheaper than the cinema but enough excitement to pay for it and not to wait for another year until its somewhere for free on any streaming service. My point, he is NOT a very great director of stardom but he is enough to consider for simple entertainment for a few hours.
Let's do a VOTE. IS Damien Chazelle's Babylon A.) Spielberg's 1941 (1979) Which wasn't really a flop. B.) Bogdanovich's Nickelodeon (1976) C.) Friedkin's Sorcerer (1977) D.) Cimino's Heavens Gate (1980) E.) Coppola's Apocalypse Now (1979), which wasn't really a flop. F.) Warren Beatty's Reds (1981), which wasn't really a flop. G.) Scorsese's New York, New York (1977)
John carpenter is a good example of this, every film he's ever done has been low budget, great success but once he got money for return to LA he just didn't seem to know what to do with it, the film was bloated.
@@knife-wieldingspidergod5059it was to be a trilogy, setting up for Escape from Earth. Someone stole the concept (Luc Besson) and the film was made. Carpenter would go on to sue and win.
His major hiccup came from Memoirs of An Invisible Man. Sadly he is reflective of his career these days and it would seem that is the film that did it. It took the wind from his sails as he butted heads with Chevy Chase who destroyed the production. Honestly, it would have been better if Sam Neil starred and Chevy were the cop, allowing him freedom to ad lib and wise crack while trying to tackle or find a guy maybe present or not. Either way, it went downhill from there
@@littlehypeTo be fair to John, Chevy Chase's not exactly someone you want to rest your project on the shoulders of. He is someone who's best confined to an ensemble or with someone who can actually make him the J.O.B to the H.A.W.K brother! He couldn't even cut it as a talk show host and no longer the worst tonight host since we've had a few real terrible ones in recent years.
That's a really interesting quote. "Some fundamental part of me will be anxious no matter what." But if he can pivot of Babylon and take lessons learned with him to improve himself...
Great Essay - I would say that Peter Jackson got to this point with King Kong (which is utter indulgence) to the point that his next film The Lovely Bones has a $95M take on a 65M budget. Hell...even Christopher Nolan did Tenet and was certainly was more constrained on budget for Oppenheimer. The fact is directors (creatives) need some constraints to make great art. After 1941 Spielberg made Raiders....need I say more!
Agreed that some directors need constraints to make great art. I think the canonical example is Jaws and Aliens - the shark sometimes wouldn't work and the Alien would look like a guy in a suit, so they kept the shark off-screen and the Alien shrouded in darkness: two constraints that helped elevate those movies. Sometimes, a constrained budget just means you need to think outside the box, which can make for a great movie.
Richard Kelly is another good example. Directed Donnie Darko at age 25 and followed it up with the wildly ambitious Southland Tales which was a huge flop. Shame!
Some argue that Donnie Darko worked because he wasn't able to do all he wanted to do in the theatrical cut, whereas the Director's Cut explains everything and kinda ruins it.
I don't think he ever was in movie jail. He was given some old IPs to revive which no one thought would be that successful to begin with. That's why no one really blamed him. Plus all of those movies were critical success which is why he made a comeback easily.
@@gabbar51nghAfter Snatch he made this really strange movie with Madonna, that flopped. He got one more chance after that, which then flopped too. He slowly had to climb his way back until he got to Rock’n’Rolla and now he’s up-and-going again
You're not sure why Patty Jenkins why she didn't get a gig for years after "Monster?" And why her phone wasn't ringing off the desk after making hits. You have heard of sexism, right? Her story is more like an example of not able to win for winning. She succeeded, but that is not enough as a woman, but some men get other chances after terrible failures.
Its kind of incredible how they put Shyamalan in two doomed projects to begin with, the last airbender wasnt obviously gonna make it as being the adaptation of a succesful IP which had many hours over it with a nepotism cast of people... and after earth being literally a vanity project for Will Smith, they made dirty to our guy
I always found it kind of ridiculous that a director is expected to make hit after hit all in a row with no mistakes at all. It's not realistic.
Kinda, but also when you are running a production with tens of millions or even hundreds of millions in backing, you are expected to deliver. Athletes have a bad week and people want their head, a whole season and the owners are looking at other options. Some directors seem to be immune to this and continue to make bomb after bomb though.
They become the scapegoat although at every stage there is a studio exc..but then they wipe their hands off and run away.
Tarantino, Nolan, and Scorsese beg to differ.
well he chose to make a super expensive film - he knew what he was getting into.
@@deusexmachina9776 Also except The drummer movie, I havent really liked Damien’s films!
I hope Damien Chazelle makes another low budget movie. Whiplash proved he can do a lot with a little.
He has another movie that’s apparently set to come out in 2025 or 2026
Lies again? Debit Card USD SGD
@@NazriBuang-w9v What do you mean by this?
He had a stroke @@mahdude6625
Such a great movie!
The fact that Zack Snyder still has an active career despite the fact he hasn't made a profitable and well received movie since 300 is astonishing.
It's ridiculous how certain figures in Hollywood (not just directors) get kicked to the curb with one misstep, or worse yet, don't even get opportunities in the first place, while others keep inexplicably finding work.
And he’s made Rebel Moon, and still thinks he’s the shit. He needs someone to palm him in the face and remind him he’s a director, not a writer
Someone tweeted about this, and Greg Silverman, former president of WB actually tweeted back and clarified “Not true. We lost some money on GAHOOLE and a fair amount on SUCKERPUNCH. The rest of his films at WB were very profitable.
Very.”
He never delivered the insane amount of money Marvel produced in it's golden age, but most of his films have been profitable. Furthermore, he has a legion of fans that will watch anything he makes, so a certain base level of profit is almost guaranteed with his films as long as he keeps budgets under control.
@@ThaninViriyaki Yeah, I heard about it. And just like anyone with a working brain, find it very strange how the guy didn't provide any evidence for what he said.
Yet there is plenty of evidence to prove him wrong.
studios putting a director in movie jail when they were the ones who chose to release a film during a GLOBAL PANDEMIC is absolutely insane.
The biggest problem with Babylon, was its marketing along with its name. All they were showing in trailers were people dancing, drinking, having sex and doing drugs.
.
There was no interesting dialogue or premise of what the movie was really about in its marketing. So, no one showed up.
Agreed. The transition from silent films to sound is a very interesting era for me, but I never knew Babylon was about that, so I ignored it for a long time.
@@One.Zero.One101
I loved Babylon, but have no idea why they thought it would be a mass market crowd pleaser.
To be honest, they released the movie too late in my country cause that time they already release it on digital
A three hour passion project about the most self absorbed subject a filmmaker can tackle was given 80 million in production costs alone. I totally agree that the producers are just as liable as the director.
Niche movie, way over budget for expected market, started watching it and didn’t care for the style - streaming- would not have gone to cinema to see it either. That doesn’t mean it shouldn’t have been made. Just budgeted/filmed appropriately
It's way too soon to say either way with Damien Chazelle or James Mangold. But I'm shocked no one here has mentioned Tom Hooper with Cats. Guy won an Oscar for directing and hasn't even been heard of since Cats.
James Mangold has already a Swamp Thing movie lined up for DC, if Gunn/Safran get DC Studios in a good place I'd say a Mangold directed Swamp Thing is easy money after what he did for Wolverine.
He was a director and producer on the HBO His Dark Materials series.
@@LBAW Pretty sure he worked on that before Cats came out?
@@LostFanaticBenLinus Possibly. Looking it up, they both came out at the end of 2019, so it’s possible. At most, he was working on them at the same time.
Fincher should've won that oscar. He towers over Hooper as a director.
All of Kubrick’s movies made studios money, that’s why studios gave him what ever he wanted . . Ridley Scott has a much more erratic box office record but when he hit big, it was huge.
Yup, also why Kubrick never went to movie jail. I suppose part of it was a strong trust in him from Warner Bros., which not a lot of directors get. Kubrick could get his budget + time + control because he was able to successfully deliver solid movies that, in addition to being good, also didn't lose money. Other director's were bigger, but WB wanted to be in the Stanley Kubrick business.
Scott is more of a working mans director than Kubrick. Part of it always feels like Scott is trying to catch up on movies he wasn't able to make because he got started directing at 40ish as opposed to in his 20s or 30s. But by dint of having so many movies to make, it stands to reason some of them might be missteps (majorly in the case of Napoleon, but the man loves his historical epics).
I don't know how well the Shining did, but it was bombed by critics back then. Clockwork Orange the same.
@@Syntopikonwell outside of this superhero movie era Warner was one of the most approachable for many directors simply for their legacy. Even Snyder was given so much money for Watchmen at the time to the point you have an animated film and a whole mockumentary on the first Nite Owl that is 20 minutes long. Clint Eastwood is another who yes has had a series of flops in recent years, still was allowed to make films with Warner. In fact Clint had stayed loyal with WB since his first directorial work. It’s also a reason why I like a group like Sony Pictures Classics where their films carry actual weight of directors and their authorship onto their films. I unfortunately have to root for the dumb major movies Sony makes just to keep SPC alive.
Not true. 2001was bad enough that he had to do Clockwork Orange to prove that he could make a movie cheap. And he only made The Shnng becuse he needed a hit after Barry Lyndon. Most Kubrick movies where not appreciated on release and only got credit about 10 years alter.
@@AgentLemmon The Shining made 47m on a 13m budget, so it more than broke even. Clockwork Orange was even better, grossed 114m on a budget of just 1.3m
people seem to forget it but Akira Kurosawa was in director jail in Japan in the mid to late 70's after Dodeskaden and quitting/fired from Tora Tora Tora. He was only able to get KAGEMUSHA made because Coppola, Lucas, Spielberg came to the rescue.
Thank God they did. His next after Kagemusha, RAN, is one of the best films ever made.
@@trevorwhiteboy2649 and now Coppola who is around the age that Kurosawa was when he made RAN has his new dream project movie out.
@@unkopower7899that will eventually flop obviously
@@trevorwhiteboy2649s
I believe in Damien Chazelle.
In Chazelle We Trust
Tis a shame cause Babylon is my favorite project he’s done, I immediately went to the theater the same day I found out about it.
Babylon is one of the best. If it was directed by Tarantino, it would get acceptance it deserved. People don’t want Chazele to be experimental.
Babylon sucks
The growing appreciation of Babylon inside me is getting stronger day by day
May Denis Villeneuve have all the time and money he needs. May his audience have the intelligence to grant him the successes he deserves.
Yup. He's delivered consistently good + successful movies. Dune 1 would've done better had it not been for things being up in the air thanks to the pandemic. But he's one of the few directors I can think of that has delivered successful original movies like Prisoners, Sicario, and Arrival.
You just called all the non fans of Villeneuve's idiots. As a non fan, I have to say that Villeneuve tries to imitate Tarkovsky and Kubrick, but fails due to the simple fact that he doesnt seem to understand what made their movies great. Be it Stalker or 2001, they were all engaging in one way or another. Incendies and Arrival were his best works, because there was no big need for exposition and when needed Villeneuve stayed true to himself and didnt have to reach (the sequence about Heptapods was a nod to his early career as a documentary filmmaker and was both necessary and well balanced, given the subject matter). Arrival really won because of Villeneuve's brooding and contemplative style, not in spite of it.
Dune movies, on the other hand, required exposition dump, required character engaging scenes, but they were all equally distant and sterile, so non readers missed so much and book readers only had nods and references to much important stuff.
So, I think, Villeneuve doesnt respect characters, doesnt respect dialogues, doesnt respect traditional narrative structure, which doesnt necessarily have to be a bad thing, but he should choose projects wisely, he is very limited, relying too much on set pieces to carry emotional engagement, reminiscient of "theme park movies" which do have dialogues, but they, just like Villeneuve's movies, exist as a prelude to the real meat of the movies - set pieces, or action pieces, if you will.
@@Syntopikonhow come blade runner 2049 didn't get him in movie jail? 👀
@@CATDHDwaaaah
@@dmen0563 ok, your response was pretty funny😅. You win
Babylon was released in a time where counter programming doesn’t exist. Babylon should’ve done moderately well (though the high budget would always be an issue) as the adult drama placed against the general audience big blockbuster, but the previous Christmas had a similar situation with West Side Story, Licorice Pizza, and Nightmare Alley all being major flops against Spider-Man. The barbenheimer meme was so large that we had an exception, but otherwise it’s been hard for non IP blockbusters to compete against the tent poles in the current times.
Especially when the tentpoles cast such an overwhelming shadow, as Avatar: The Way of Water did. Both were 3+ hour films, but in order to sell that to a lot of people, they need to buy the fact that the director can deliver 3+ hour worth of solid content.
@@Syntopikon and the major studios get every theater and showing booked too. Spider-Man and Avatar both played on most screens in any multiplex in all kinds of different formats. Tom Cruise had this exact problem when Paramount set a hard date for M:I7 right before with the double whammy of Barbenheimer, thus the movie got reduced to barely any screens only a week in. And that was for a $300m film too. Imagine what a 50m goes through in that scenario
I actually loved Babylon. Like legitimately loved it. Lol
I thought the film was interesting if you’re interested in the change of silent Hollywood to films with sound. The history of the silent era & its end.
@@SyntopikonI wish James Cameron would do something else. He’s very talented but some people, including myself, are bored of avatar by now.but I guess he’s helping cinemas in a way. Random kinda 😅
Hollywood is a dark place man, if a struggling director refuses to take the studio's shitty project then that director is banned to ever work in the industry. Same goes for the actors and the actresses. A proper puppet technique.
I think the older model of "one for me, one for you" worked well. That way, the studios were happy that a director made a hit for them and a director was happy that the studio funded their passion project (which could be a hit, too).
@@Syntopikon Oh yea, but then again there's a reason why "Greed" is one of the deadliest sins.
No one has a divine right to make movies: unless they pony up the dough themselves.
Feel free to be a bartender, doctor, lawyer or construction worker: plenty of opportunities for those.
Actors are given far more chances. The only way to ruin your career as an actor is with sexual assault allegations or saying something offensive on the internet
@@NoCluYT oh yeah, remember what happened to Mel Gibson?
It's insane how much money La La Land made for an old fashioned musical.
I think that one caught everyone by surprise. I think most assumed musical's were a bygone genre (in terms of box office performance). Now, it seems as though we're getting more musicals BUT they're not being marketed as such.
"It's insane how much money Joker made for a character study movie about mentally ill person in the 70s."
And one with such sloppy choreography.
Almost as if what audiences want is a fantastic crowd-pleasing movie which La La Land was.
@@CATDHD Joker is well known character of DC though. Truly original films are harder to greenlight
It fucks me off because we're in a period where studios blame audiences for not seeing their movies, yet they either start advertising these things like a month before they come up; 2 years before we'll even see anything else on it, or just not at all.
And I'm getting sick and tired of being blamed for something flopping, when it's marketing is so piss poor.
Yeah, it seems like there's always a blitz at the announcement and then in the last couple months before release, but I'm surprised they don't have more of a drip marketing campaign for movies. Maybe it's because it won't work, but I dunno why they don't start releasing behind the scenes footage that doesn't give stuff away in the mid-range lead up. I'd find that more interesting than another perfunctory actor interview.
Let's not pretend as if the audience have no part to play because even I am guilty of this, I would rather watch something from an established IP than a new movie so I get what you mean but some of us are just butterbrains
@@jeffersonhassan4558for me if I hear buzz a good marketing campaign I’m intrigued. With IP it really depends. I loved the marvel movies but now I skip their theatrical releases bc it isn’t worth the money and it’s expensive to see a movie (besides the Deadpool & wolverine). The movies that have caught my attention have been trying something new and/or had great marketing off the top of my head these are the movies that caught my interest enough to spend the money or I only missed out bc I was broke and if I had the money I would have gone
Barbie
Oppenheimer
Deadpool & Wolverine
Bodies bodies bodies
Everything everywhere all at once
Bottoms
Dune pt 1 & 2
Challengers
No hard feelings
if youre gonna make a 3 hour long movie you gotta bring back the early 1900s practice of INTERMISSIONS, some of us gotta pee and would rather watch that stuff at home so we can pause
I'm glad they do intermissions for Indian films, and most of them are even filmed around where the intermissions are placed to get you excited for what happens next.
@@KetsubanSolotoo bad Indian movies suck
I’m so tired of the 2.5 hour movies! If you have enough movie to fill 2.5 hours (everything everywhere all at once, RRR), ok, but most just DON’T. Most 2.5 hour movies need an ax taken to them to shave 30-60 minutes.
@@KetsubanSolo They add an intermission for all movies that play in Indian cinemas, not just Indian movies.
jesus christ lol. not even a long time to not pee or use your phone
Francis Ford Coppola is another big director who was put in movie jail for One from the Heart
he should stay in movie jail. scummy ass human protecting a convicted pedo
🚫
Coppola made his own studio so he can make his movies without all this BS.
should’ve staying in movie jail. mf defended a convicted chomo
@@numberjuan469 is that English?
The fuck is a chomo?
Damien Chazelle isn’t even in movie jail. He has a new movie at Paramount slated for next year. Budget is smaller, but he is still working with the same studio
I think studio will control his movie from now on.
Movie probation then
That’s not the only thing that’s wrong, there are many little error’s I wanted to write a comment correction some but I think this video is probably ai written so that would be to much work for something like this.
@@mohdamerulaidilbinrazisahm7317 why?
Not to mention its been less than 2 years since babylon came out directors dont have to announce a project every year 😭
Babylon is still a masterpiece to me. 🎬
So underrated movie
To me it’s absolute trash.
nah, it sucks
🤮‼
3 hours of Hollywood sucking its own --.
Shyamalan is a risk taker, loves what he does, not for everyone but great choices from him. His choice to put his house on mortgage could have been a disaster but it paid of in the long run.
It's pretty admirable. A true entrepreneur. Most of the movies since The Visit were self-funded, and he does his best work with small, weird movies as opposed to blockbusters.
sure but overall he’s not that great a filmmaker. if the majority of what you are making even if you are taking risks if they are failing than that’s not a good sign
@@paulelroy6650 I don't know your understanding of "Great filmmaking". i believe engagement with the story and caring about the characters as great filmmaking techniques/storytelling, and most of his films achieve this, so yes to me he is a great filmmaker. Failing financially does not equal bad film, just bad luck.
@@Myspace757 That's a very vague way of talking about it lol.
Espeically since character-drama tends to be Shyamalan's biggest problem.
He is an idea person and he is generally good at building up tension and atmosphere and that's it. His films, from the plot and characters perspective, are some of the weakest movies of their time. His characters speak more like exposition robots then actual people.
Even his latest movie relies on extremely contrived plot and plot-induced stupidity to drive itself.
@@GutsTheBeast Exactly. He's got original ideas. He's just awful at execution. He really needs writers instead of doing his own writing.
Chazelle is a generational talent. He’s not going away anytime soon.
He’s fine I honestly think he’s talented. I liked whiplash and la la land but neither stay with me years later. Moonlight did. Women talking does prisoners. Whiplash is well written but to me the majority of its success rest on JK Simmons. He’s gonna make anything great. Also gosling made la la land.
@@kwill84cap
I never knew that M. Night Shamamalan took out a loan against his house just to make The Visit and another loan to make Split. That’s some hardcore dedication that paid off. He basically flexed on everyone saying that he’s still got it. Not every film he makes will be a hit, but I’m always eager to see whatever he’s cookin. M. Night or BUST!
He's an inspired director. With a couple of obvious exceptions, nothing he touches feels like it was written by committee.
@@nessy9022 besides Avatar. That had committee written all over it.
@@GaryKetchum808 Totally. When I checked his filmography prior to editing that reply, it was that and After Earth (based on a story idea by Will Smith) that stood out as exceptions.
I didn’t know he made The Visit! I need to watch more of his stuff and I’ve only seen Trap, Split (I love it) and The Visit (also awesome)
He's made some of the worst movies of all time.
You’ve gotta admire Shymalan and his hustle.
Babylon was such a bizare experience. It starts with an elephant shiting itself and I was like "what the actual fuck is this?" and for a while it wasn't doing much for me, but then we get to that chaotic scene where Nellie is shooting her first talkie scene and I was blown away, and after that the film kept getting crazier but also more beautiful and at the end, while almost bawling my eyes off, I was like "ok, this is fucking amazing". One of my favourites from that year. It was like Singing In the Rain meets The Artist (both films I love) but on cocaine.
I’m so glad Shyamalan was able to bounce back and get his groove back. His movies were part of my childhood experience.
The saddest part of this is that Damien Chazelle's Babylon is one of the best films I've ever seen in this century. I still believe that he will survive through movie jail fairly easily.
If there's a "movie jail", then there's a "Get free out of jail" card around because there's also too many writer directors making money despite making sh1t...
"Hey, I resemble that remark!"- Zack Snyder
The fact that David O. Russell still has numerous upcoming projects attached to his name despite making garbage like Amsterdam that lost so much money (or more importantly imo, despite being an absolutely horrible human being with numerous abuse/sexual assault allegations, including from his own niece) is something I cannot for the life of me understand
@@daveclark8337"Oi!" - JJ Abrams
Chazzelle will be fine he has stuff lined up.
Also babylon is underrated
Singer didn't direct Dark Phoenix, it was Simon Kinberg
A major mistake that could've been easily avoided with minimum knowledge/research (i.e. google) making the entire video embarassing.
@@YY-mi9rfthank you. ridiculous
I bailed after 30 seconds. This guy’s dictation is atrocious. I’m not surprised there’s factual errors in it. It sounds like this guy is reading about a subject he has no interest and/or knowledge in, off a teleprompter. It’s a shame because this could be an interesting topic to make a video about, preferably by someone who actually cares about the subject they’re talking about instead of some hack trying to get Ad views. There’s way too much of this shit going down on RUclips these days and I’m pretty sick of it. Either way, I’d rather hear nails on a chalkboard as opposed to this voice for another 30 seconds. You guys are braver than me.
@@7Jstamper 💯💤💤💤
The story of Heaven's Gate is more telling than that. UA took outside money on the production, not unusual, but they took part in dealing with Cimino, which meant he was directly funded by first-time producers from completely outside the industry. As filming went along, spending more and more, the newbies stepped in and demanded to know where all the money was going. Cimino showed them a "sizzle reel" filled with beautiful shots that were put together with painstaking detail, so much detail that he described the clothing on extras being handmade and period correct for the time. This looked and sounded amazing to the producers, so they just let him go. They didn't get dailies, and they didn't ask questions after that, assuming he would blow the market away with his passion project. UA had little to do with the actual production.
Amateurs.
Yeah, Cimino went crazy with the money, and everyone got what was coming to them. EVERY movie needs cost controls. Dealing with them effectively is half the creativity of the profession. On that subject, RIP Roger Corman, we need him now more than ever. There's no GOOD reason we shouldn't have an army of low-budget auteurs slamming together original films for $250k all over the streaming services.
yep, creative usually complain about the money people but it's very unethical to waste other people's money like in Heaven's Gate
Surely Alex Cox is the best example of a director in movie jail. Walker was so controversial it wrecked his career completely
It also depends on how much you want a Hollywood career. I dont see Cox as the type who went around LA kissing ass and begging for a second chance after Walker.
@@unkopower7899 Firstly that and secondly Cox is a respected cult figure one of the directors who made your favorite directors' favorite movies type of guys.
For me, one of the most interesting directors that ended up in movie jail is Dennis Hopper. His first movie (Easy Rider) not only was box office success, it changed Hollywood's cultural and industrial landscape forever. Then he made The Last Movie, which was a risky and experimental film that bombed (I like it very much but its certainly not a movie for everyone), for which he didnt direct another film for 30 years. The worst thing about this is that the studio didnt like the movie when they saw it prerelease and couldnt change the final cut because Hopper had full creative control, so they sabotaged the movie releasing it only in a few cinemas (the minimum required by contract) for only a couple of weeks. I recommend you watch it, even if you dont like it I think it is a special kind of movie that encapsulates the wild artistic vision of its author and reflects on the movie industry and how it effects the people in it and around it.
Bryan Singer was not involved with Dark Phoenix. He was fired from Bohemian Rhapsody with roughly 3 weeks left of production and hasn't directed a new film since. Bohemian Rhapsody, I should add, made over $900 million on a roughly $50 million budget, while also winning the Golden Globe for Best Drama and 4 of the 5 Oscars it was nominated for.
I should also mention that Dark Phoenix was held back by BOTH Fox during and Disney after their merger and the last 40 minutes of the movie were completely scrapped, re-written and re-filmed so that elements originally intended for the film could be directed toward other MCU properties. Disney brought in a ghost crew to finish it up, as many of the people that started working on the film were let go when Disney took over. It was originally meant to be a two-part film, but Disney ultimately had it sent off to die so they could integrate the X-Men brand back into their mainstream Marvel media.
I'd argue Simon Kinberg wasn't going to cook something good with Dark Phoenix anyways, whenever there's a Blade: Trinity scenario going on with a production you just know there's a shit show coming.
Brian Singer was not put in Movie Jail for making any bombs. He was put in Movie Jail because he likes to diddle kids.
Kinberg has the ability to do good work, but it seems he needs to be steered in the right direction rather than taking the wheel himself. Regardless of the man's personal life, both Days of Future Past and (to a lesser extent) Apocalypse were far better films than The Last Stand and Dark Phoenix thanks to Bryan Singer driving his own vision. Then enter Brett Ratner, who was basically the "camera-for-hire" on the third movie, but letting Kinberg take on a $200 million production of that magnitude as his directorial debut was asking for trouble. Along with David Goyer doing double duty on Blade Trinity, Frank Miller writing and directing The Spirit is another good example of what not to do helming your first big movie.
I’m shocked no one mentioned Josh Trank and _Fant4stic_ because his rapid rise and fall was one of the most dramatic examples of it. Although admittedly that also means it really deserves a video of its own.
Babylon, a movie that critiques the golden age of Hollywoods abscesses and debauchery by showing it in full display is the one that bombed for Chazelle. Ironic and poetic.
Director Martin Brest came off the spectacular "Meet Joe Black" with "Gili." He never worked again.
One director who I believe is in movie jail is Richard Kelly. He became huge after his debut film Donnie Darko became a massive hit on DVD and he used the attention from that to make his passion project, Southland Tales, which failed critically and commercially. The next year he came out with his next film, The Box, which also failed. To this day, he still hasn't directed a movie.
Wasn't he the guy that never understood Donnie Darko and why it got so popular? His edited cut was far worse than the original.
Babylon being his downfall is just so ironic and poetic lol
Babylon want his fault.
This is a superbly put together video, i look forward to seeing more of what you produce.
I appreciate it!
👆🏳🌈
Correction: Dark Phoenix was directed by Simon Kinberg, not Bryan Singer.
Robert Townsend is another great example. Hollywood shuffle was a movie made for 40 to 60K. To be more specific he maxed out his credit cards. The return on the movie was 5 million dollars… that’s insane.
Next thing you know he’s making a big budget movie called meteor man with pretty much every black celebrity except Denzel, Washington and Wesley Snipes .
The film cost 20 million to make and it’s returned was a poultry eight Million. He never truly had a shot to make a big budget film again.
That's a solid point. I know a lot of directors have described having a small budget as something of a forcing function for creativity: you lack the money, so you MUST get creative (in writing, acting, directing, or even cutting corners [safely]). Kevin Smith seemed to be the same way - Clerks was great but as his budgets got bigger, movie quality suffered.
You are absolutely right! Smith’s films definitely suffered after Clerks.
No it’s not. Because he didn’t go from Hollywood Shuffle to Meteor Man.
He directed Eddie Murphy’s Raw. Then The 5 Heartbeats.
And there was no jail for him. He was back directing by 97. 4 years after MM.
And, Hollywood doesn’t put you in jail while allowing you to create and star in your own TV show, The Parent ‘Hood as well as Townsend TV.
I’m talking about big budget films… yes, I know about raw I own it. I’m not gonna count concert films as the same.
Also, I said in my original comment “ the next thing you know” I never said he immediately moved to make a $20 million film.
He ran out of money on the five heartbeats… and it was a struggle for him.
We’re talking about why opportunities are taken away after let’s say a 20 million film flops and you’re not given an opportunity to create a big budget film again.
TV before streaming was pretty much jail time for actors, writers, and directors who were cast out by holly wood Studios. Netflix changed the game .
@@keithwalker3989The next thing LITERALLY means the next thing. Lol
20 million ain’t a big budget movie. And he was given opportunities.
Townsend was never in jail. He just isn’t a good/great director.
Stop digging.
Oscars ruin careers. It is indeed a curse. Lets also not pretend that Barbie was successful because Margot Robbie was in it. Most of her movies flop
Yep. The IP was the star of that movie: could have been any slim blonde in the Barbie role, it would have crushed at the BO.
Ryan Gosling carried that film.
It was successful because it got memed
@Clippidyclappidy itnwas successful because it was good.
I couldn't bear beating till halftime
About as comprehensive as one could get describing the modern state of Hollywood. Great vid!
Babylon made my head hurt, but I loved the scene where the movie studio was recording with sound for the first time. It was so intense
Whiplash is seriously an incredible movie- it deserves all the hype it gets
Whiplash is amongst the most overrated movies of the 21st century.
I really tried to like Babylon, but it felt like overflowing visual bloat with a bunch of pretty pictures, and the story was hugely boring around the cast. I understand that the narrative style was almost like the rhythm of a musical, but despite its massive visual style, it felt really hollow. But maybe I'm alone in my opinion.
You’re not alone. The Day of the Locust is way better.
Also there was nothing really new in what it was trying to say or do.
-The transition from silent movies to talkies and the downfall of a silent era star was just covered in The Artist.
-The over the top debauchery was seen in The Wolf of Wall Street.
-The whole Tobey Maguire sequence was almost entirely a carbon copy of the Alfred Molina scene in Boogie Nights.
-And then there was the “history of film” highlight reel at the end that made me more queasy than the elephant diarrhea seen at the beginning of the movie 😂 🤢
Hopefully Chazelle can learn from this and bounce back because Whiplash, La La Land and First Man are all great and he’s got too much talent to disappear entirely
Here's my review of it. pschadenberg.blogspot.com/2023/01/babylon-2022.html
I agree, I thought the movie boring, over the top without substance, and the end was trying to be pretty and dramatic, but it was in fact too long and also boring. And Margot Robbie is playing Harley Queen all over again, she has this character type at least 4 times in her career, it is exhausting.
@@isaacs3822 Carbon copy of the Alfred Molina scene in Boogie Nights? I'm sorry, but, did we see the same scene? While it is tonally very similar, the things that actually happened in the scene and how it unfolded are all completely different. It is not at all a copy of the other scene, even if it was definitely inspired by that scene.
"But he was back on top with The Happening" made me chuckle
JJ Abrams seems to be in movie jail as well post ROS.
I mean JJ is like a roach, and I love him. He finnessed WB out of millions for a project that never happened 😂
With no possibility of parole hopefully
@@RestNPlayVideos yep, he got a nice little retirement package out of them 😅👏🏾
Good.
If only the fact that the movies are bad would be a reason for movie jail, then Michael Bay and Zach Snyder wouldn't have had a career in a long time. But since RoS made a lot of money, he's more like in a personal exile than movie jail.
Damien Chazelle's career is not wrecked lol. He's already got another in the movie in the works and signed a deal with Paramount post-Babylon. Every great director misses once in a while.
Paul Schrader is a good example of a guy who's been to movie jail multiple times, but always managed to stay up directing low budget stuff and come back with a banger after a while.
Richard Kelly is one very sad example. Southland Tales was an ahead-of-the-time masterpiece that was sadly misunderstood and messed up theatrically. I hope with the recent resurgence of Southland Tales and its growing cult status he will get another chance - he hasn't done anything since The Box.
One person who was in movie jail for around a decade, which was absolutely criminal, was David Cronenberg - the fact that one of the greatest and most influential directors of all time couldn't manage to get a movie made for almost a decade, had multiple projects cancelled, and had to resort to writing a book and playing supporting characters in TV shows in order to get some money for Crimes of the Future...
Paul Schrader strikes me as something of a difficult case in that I'm not sure that he's in, or ever was, in movie jail, insomuch as he just didn't want to be a big part of the system. Directors like Greta Gerwig, Damien Chazelle, and M. Night strike me as ambitious individuals that want/wanted to play with the biggest canvas available. But I never got that feeling from Schrader. He always struck me as someone who preferred to do smaller films but with creative control - and didn't want to cede any of the latter.
As someone who enjoyed Donnie Darko, I feel the same about Richard Kelly and hope he's able to make a comeback. Unfortunately, he's been out for so long that each passing year might be a strike against him. But, then again, Hollywood loves nothing more than a prodigy making a comeback. Kelly was like 25/26 when he did Donnie Darko and it's been almost that many years since the movie came out.
Cronenberg has always struck as one of those directors that one should be happy to fund because he creates interesting work. It's kind of like Guillermo del Toro or Paul Thomas Anderson in that regard. Will their movies make money? It'd be nice if they did. But will they craft something great that, if nothing else, will bring your studio some recognition, either awards or a cult-like following? That's a safe bet.
Schrader puts himself in movie jail. Then he flagellates himself until he can see God and then makes a great movie.
Another director in Movie Jail multiple times: Ridley Scott. He started out promising with Alien but then Blade Runner and Legend failed at the box office (although they became remembered as cult classics especially the former) then he came back with Thelma & Louise, and he just kept going back and forth with hits and misses. It seems likely he’ll be in Movie Jail only temporarily.
It's honestly makes me sad that Babylon flopped, at first I was mixed on it, but rewatching it again, I adore the movie a lot, hell I would say it's better 3 Hour film that came out in 2022 than Avatar: The Way of Water. Yeah the marketing is definitely to blame for the movie flopping, while some would also say because of that one winter storm that came into almost the entirety of the US and it was so bad that a lot of theaters closed down.
Yup. And there was also the fact that it was competing with Avatar. I think a delayed or earlier release could’ve worked in its favor.
Excellent profile pic lol
Interesting topic but I can’t finish this video. The narration is criminal. So mundane and monotone. Jeez.
No mention of Tom Hooper? He’s arguably the biggest example of a director in movie jail ever.
I mentioned Tom Hooper in a more recent video: ruclips.net/video/QTBENXR-zcs/видео.html
Great video. Just a little advice: consider improving the audio, cause I could barely make out what you said sometimes.
Movies should be released world wide at the same time. It would create more buzz by allowing more people to speak about it online while it's current everywhere.
It’s still baffling that some of these films cost as much as they do. A listers and sets are the two biggest costs, and when you have a film that has both, you’d better be sure it’s going to appeal to the masses.
The thing that's lowkey upsetting is Babylon was a really good movie and maybe if the marketing wasn't so bad and it was released earlier in the year (or even the next year) it could've been a humongous box office success and another Oscar success but I think the main thing that brought Babylon down was the god awful marketing. Babylon deserved better!
Tom Hooper should have been mentioned, he is also in movie jail after the Cats disaster. I loved this video, thank you for it.
I used to work with the guy that did the technical execution (I'm not sure of the exact title, but he was in charge of stuff like the CG rendering pipeline) for cats. That film took down a 700 person company, among other things. The stories are pretty wild. Apparently one of the reasons they were sending out edited versions to the cinemas after it had been released was that the director thought it would be so good that it would get nominated for an oscar.
.A video about it would be great. Thank you again
I'm surprised that you didn't mention David Robert Mitchell, he directed It Follows and the follow up Under The Silver Lake was basically buried by A24 until it was begrudgingly released on streaming. Such a good movie that sadly wasn't given a proper run by the distributor.
It Follows was a pretty meh film, though.
Under the Silver Lake is so good. No doubt that it became a cult classic.
James Mangold is already on his way directing his next movie A Complete Unknown about musician and singer Bob Dylan. Despite the poor box office performance of Dial of Destiny (which I did like then most people), Mangold has proven himself on and off that he can make studio movies in various genres and budgets to both commercial and critical success. One of the reasons he managed to move from Dial of Destiny to A Complete Unknown is because he was already attached to make the latter around the same time he was asked to do Dial of Destiny. So he was always going to jump to A Complete Unknown no matter what, and he’s currently filming it right now. However, I do think it’s very obvious that budget for A Complete Unknown is not anyway near the 250 to 300 plus million dollar range 😂.
He seems to be attached to Swamp Thing for DC Studios too, so he might get a comeback on the big budget stuff.
I love Babylon than most of the director's movies so no idea why it's so hated.
I started working for HBO in 1994 and have watched this industry collapse. Hollywood would be doing so much better if they could give more opportunity to indie directors who understand how to stay within budget.
I am anticipating the first A.i. directed film. Most of the audience do not appreciate good cinema, they just want something which is mildly entertaining.
Really interesting, I had never before heard of "Movie Jail" though it makes sense and could explain why some new directors I enjoy (that don't make blockbusters though) tend to disappear really quickly or enter the indie scene. If I can give some constructive criticism may I recommend trying to have some more fluctuation in your voice? It's soft and nice to hear but tends to be a bit monotone. Fantastic video nonetheless, loved it :) super informative and gave a lot of info but made it super easy to consume.
Thanks for the constructive criticism! Yeah, I'm trying to change the voice and I think I've improved over older videos, but still got a long way to go. I speak in the videos as I do normally, so on one hand, it's unvarnished. But will try to inflect a lot more going forward (though it'll probably take several videos to get into the swing of things).
Subbed! Great content, analysis and uour final points are so well said.
John Waters, Francis Ford Coppola, Terry Zwigoff are all in directors jail. Even David Lynch has had recent problems finding funding for his new animation project
Couldn't get past the elephant shitting and the guy getting pissed on within the first 10 minutes of Babylon. First Man is so underrated.
First Man was a solid movie. Definitely deserved its VFX Oscar.
Just as I predicted in my review: pschadenberg.blogspot.com/2023/01/babylon-2022.html
I stopped watching right after that. Sickening. What people loved about it baffles me. That’s not art.
@@StellaAdler_"I stopped watching it 10 mins in" "What people loved about it baffles me, that's not art".... Yeeeah u didn't watch the movie, u clown, how would u know?
@@Syntopikon maybe *First Man* would have made more money if he didn't delete the American flag raising on the Moon. When people heard that, it turned a lot of people off. Like it or not, the Apollo program was done for national pride and achievement. To eject the very point of _why_ we went was a major disservice. I still really like the movie, I just wish that he didn't pander to the Left and didn't feel ashamed about making a movie about American Exceptionalism.
This was well explained. You had my distracted mind unusually focused lol thanks
As someone who's mind is also distracted far too often, I'm happy to help.
directors careers dont get 'wrecked' by one movie. I've seen bad movies from Speilberg, Scorsese, Hitchcok, Coppolla, Welles, Eastwood, Allen, Polanski, Leone, Scott...
Tell that to the impatient suits of today. They need money and they need it *now*
you are just mentioning established names...
5:50 It's funny how many modern issues big or small somehow connect back to Ronald Reagan.
Way to much.
Babylon is probably the best film of the 20s. Its stature is growing by the year.
Calling it right now, it's gonna be on everyones top 10 list by the end of the decade.
The guy that made Knowing with Nicholas Cage. He did that Gods of Egypt movie and never recovered. I love Knowing so much.
Yup, Alex Proyas. It's a shame because I liked Gods of Egypt (and Knowing).
I thought knowing was actually cool but he deserved his jailtime sentence for Gods of egypt
How you gonna make a movie about gods in egypt and put snow white blonde people in there instead of egyptaisn and middle esstern folk
Okay if you directed whiplash I think you should get a one bad movie free pass
Easy to say that when it's not you losing millions of dollars.
Babylon was a Masterpiece
M. Night Shyamalan is an interesting one: Sitxh Sense was OUTSTANDING and he never made another movie that impacted culture and movieland like this one. He definetly disappointed every Last Airbender-Fan on the planet but he managed to make DECENT movies. Im not EXCITED about his films but im always interested. The Happening, The Visit, Split, Old and Knock at the Cabin are decent entertaining movies. I was surprised how much his last movies entertained me even though they are on some levels even "dumb". I will definetly see his upcoming movie. Not at the cinema but i will likely rent it on Amazon for 4.99$ when its available for rent. Its cheaper than the cinema but enough excitement to pay for it and not to wait for another year until its somewhere for free on any streaming service. My point, he is NOT a very great director of stardom but he is enough to consider for simple entertainment for a few hours.
Your narration-style is an interesting choice.
Tiger Woods, right?
Babylon is fantastic. It will get the recognition later
Reminds me of Ryan O’Neal character in Irreconcilable Differences. Makes one hit, then his Gone With the Wind musical goes kaput.
Movie Jail seems not to exist for Disney/Lucasfilm
Fantastic video man! 🙌
Great vid!
Could I please get the name of the film at 00:16
Great video, first of your's I've seen, very interesting topic that many don't discuss.
Would Richard Kelly fall into this category?
Yup. Which sucks considering how good Donnie Darko was (and how young he was when he made it).
Let's do a VOTE.
IS Damien Chazelle's Babylon
A.) Spielberg's 1941 (1979) Which wasn't really a flop.
B.) Bogdanovich's Nickelodeon (1976)
C.) Friedkin's Sorcerer (1977)
D.) Cimino's Heavens Gate (1980)
E.) Coppola's Apocalypse Now (1979), which wasn't really a flop.
F.) Warren Beatty's Reds (1981), which wasn't really a flop.
G.) Scorsese's New York, New York (1977)
John carpenter is a good example of this, every film he's ever done has been low budget, great success but once he got money for return to LA he just didn't seem to know what to do with it, the film was bloated.
Escape from LA, a sequel no one has asked for.
@@knife-wieldingspidergod5059it was to be a trilogy, setting up for Escape from Earth. Someone stole the concept (Luc Besson) and the film was made. Carpenter would go on to sue and win.
His major hiccup came from Memoirs of An Invisible Man. Sadly he is reflective of his career these days and it would seem that is the film that did it. It took the wind from his sails as he butted heads with Chevy Chase who destroyed the production. Honestly, it would have been better if Sam Neil starred and Chevy were the cop, allowing him freedom to ad lib and wise crack while trying to tackle or find a guy maybe present or not. Either way, it went downhill from there
@@littlehypeTo be fair to John, Chevy Chase's not exactly someone you want to rest your project on the shoulders of. He is someone who's best confined to an ensemble or with someone who can actually make him the J.O.B to the H.A.W.K brother!
He couldn't even cut it as a talk show host and no longer the worst tonight host since we've had a few real terrible ones in recent years.
That's a really interesting quote. "Some fundamental part of me will be anxious no matter what." But if he can pivot of Babylon and take lessons learned with him to improve himself...
Yup. I think that’s what he’s going to try for in the next movie which, from what I recall, is going to be a lot more restrained.
Babylon is a Masterpiece..🔥
Great Essay - I would say that Peter Jackson got to this point with King Kong (which is utter indulgence) to the point that his next film The Lovely Bones has a $95M take on a 65M budget. Hell...even Christopher Nolan did Tenet and was certainly was more constrained on budget for Oppenheimer. The fact is directors (creatives) need some constraints to make great art. After 1941 Spielberg made Raiders....need I say more!
Agreed that some directors need constraints to make great art. I think the canonical example is Jaws and Aliens - the shark sometimes wouldn't work and the Alien would look like a guy in a suit, so they kept the shark off-screen and the Alien shrouded in darkness: two constraints that helped elevate those movies. Sometimes, a constrained budget just means you need to think outside the box, which can make for a great movie.
Carl Rinsch, director of 47 Ronin has also been in film jail since. The film cost 175 million and bombed at the box office.
I recall everyone thinking 47 Ronin was another Dinero film, and avoiding it.
It should be illegal to make films stealing any same or similar title.
I’d rather watch Babylon then Way of Water any day.
HELL NO!!
Way of Water was actually really good lol much better than the first
@@uhuhuh1966 the first one was really bad I watched it here about three years ago and I’m very skeptical on the new one.
fuck no. you alone on that
@@numberjuan469 nah
Stephen Sagal proved that anyone who really wants to make a movie can find a way.
That's a whole video essay unto itself.
Richard Kelly is another good example. Directed Donnie Darko at age 25 and followed it up with the wildly ambitious Southland Tales which was a huge flop. Shame!
Some argue that Donnie Darko worked because he wasn't able to do all he wanted to do in the theatrical cut, whereas the Director's Cut explains everything and kinda ruins it.
Guy Ritchie was another director that went into movie Jail and came back again
I don't think he ever was in movie jail.
He was given some old IPs to revive which no one thought would be that successful to begin with. That's why no one really blamed him. Plus all of those movies were critical success which is why he made a comeback easily.
@@gabbar51nghAfter Snatch he made this really strange movie with Madonna, that flopped. He got one more chance after that, which then flopped too. He slowly had to climb his way back until he got to Rock’n’Rolla and now he’s up-and-going again
Heaven’s Gate and Year of the Dragon may have been flops, but they’re good movies.
No mention of Tom Hopper and his disastrous _Cats_ movie?
Cats pussied out.
Chazelle reached his peak with his first movie... What do you do then
You're not sure why Patty Jenkins why she didn't get a gig for years after "Monster?" And why her phone wasn't ringing off the desk after making hits. You have heard of sexism, right? Her story is more like an example of not able to win for winning. She succeeded, but that is not enough as a woman, but some men get other chances after terrible failures.
I can’t believe anyone would dispute this, and yet I’ve heard people try to re: Patty. This industry still sucks and has so far to go.
Its kind of incredible how they put Shyamalan in two doomed projects to begin with, the last airbender wasnt obviously gonna make it as being the adaptation of a succesful IP which had many hours over it with a nepotism cast of people... and after earth being literally a vanity project for Will Smith, they made dirty to our guy
Shyamalan couldn’t have gotten “back on top with *The Happening*.” That 90-minute environmental PSA was a trainwreck
Great video. Subscribed.
Gore Verbisnki did 3 masterpieces ( Pirates of Caribbean) then just....well.
Hope he gets out of Jail 😂
Likewise. POTC is one of my favorite trilogies and, I would argue, some of the funnest movies ever made.
What movie is the animated hand pulling a trigger at 6:05 from?
Kill bill vol 1