respawn: "but there is no counterplay!!!!" also respawn: "ok so, this legend can see where you are trough walls, make a big ass cilinder that can stop whatever youre doing, reveal you and show your hp and you got a very small amount of time to dodge it"
if you watch the video: 1. respawn: tap strafing shys away our target audience of casuals who would spend money unlocking legends 2. respawn: Seer is a new legend that needs to be unlocked by legend tokens or real word money increasing our revenue. we would rather make new legends overpowered than underpowered and nerf them as time goes on. Makes perfect sense to me! EA challenge everything.
Only thing you can do realistically is lobby your government to limit copyright from ridiculous ~130 years (deathtime of every involved dev+70 years) to something reasonable like 25 years. So we can at least legally play this game how we want to within our lifetimes.
(Some of these only apply to console) 1- sound effect of someone falling when you finish a squad 2- not being able to reload while a downed teammate is in front of you 3- not being able to reload while holding a door 4- not being able to shield swap with a shield on the ground, because most often it glitches and swaps back to the empty shield 5- getting crushed when you kill someone and you are standing between the death-box and a door 6- not being able to move while looting a death-box How about they fix these things that are actually frustrating control players? Instead of taking away thr most fun mechanic from m&k players? :/
there are so many other problems the game has and their top priority is removing a super fun movement technique hardly anyone ever used but maybe 1% of the playerbase. Removing or lowering the skil ceiling isnt a good choice by respawn period
Its not rly top 1% tho I stumbled on this mechanic in some clip and learned it in bronze. I think they should just promote the mechanic more and make it viable on console.
As my honest opinion as a console player I have no complaints on tap-strafing although it does give pc players an unfair edge the amount of pc players able to pull off consistent and effective tap-strafes in battle is very minuscule and those who are able to learn to pull off such a move should be given that edge in battle because of the time and effort it took to learn it
i mean, it only took 1 or 2 days to learn and get used to it but i think it's a fair patch, im tired of seeing sweaty trash wraiths moving like crazy but missing all their shot and get shit on
@@Elias_Ainzworth like what was said in the video learn to conserve ammo in a gun fight by actually hitting your target and not shooting randomly if you can hit your shots you will kill them people who can tap-strafe successfully and laser you have definitely put a lot of time and effort in maintaining that skill you should respect that
If they wanted to improve readability of high-mobility characters, then why haven't they fixed the silent jumppad audio glitch yet? Maybe if we could hear Octane coming, we could kill him without having to make the game literally less fun to play in general.
@@chavezjoseph8140 The initial jump has consistent sound but the double jump is frequently completely silent, and i say that as an Octane main who spends a lot of time using jumppads lol. Even if it usually works to my benefit I can't deny that it is an unfair advantage
@@someoldcliche ok but does the double jump make a sound at all ? And again if they do the second jump further away what sound should be heard ? Because if they do the second jump above you ..you hear it ..but if it's let's say before they get to the building how'd you hear it ?
@@chavezjoseph8140 The double jump does in fact have a distinct sound effect, and I can confirm that the sound bug not only affects other players- I often get zero sound as the player doing the double jump, which should not be possible. The game has a lot of audio issues in general but I am pretty disappointed that they are taking out tap strafing to eliminate fun but they won't fix sound issues that have a tangible effect on gameplay which have been around for multiple seasons. I would argue that the second jump sound is even more important than the initial pad jump as the pad itself can be far enough away from you that you won't hear it at all, and if you don't hear the second jump you will be caught completely unaware. You can't counterplay that
I've literally never seen any console players complain about getting tap strafed on. It doesnt happen. We just complain about not being able to do it. If their solution to that complaint is to take it out of the game, then thats just dumb
I've only ever jokingly yelled at pricks that tap strafe into buildings while I shoot at them. It's really funny to see though (PS4 player with a PC friend).
Apex community should be like: After much consideration and debate, we've decided to remove our credit cards/paypal or any payment information from shop store. Our reasoning: It's inaccessible, lacks readability/reasoning and is exacerbated by clownery abilities.
Apex community should be like: After much consideration and debate, we've decided to remove our credit cards/paypal or any payment information from shop store. Our reasoning: It's inaccessible, lacks readability/reasoning and is exacerbated by stupid developer decisions of limited creativity and understanding of their own game. Thats all true and great, but you have to remember the one giving the big bucks are the consoles, thats where their long term financial profit lies, and therefore thats the audience they will prioritize :) console won't remove credit card info because they lose nothing XD they never could use it so its good if other limited 0.1% of apex can't use it either in the offchance that once in 500 games someone tap strafes on you in crossplay and that same person died to controller oneclip from a gold player at like 20 meters when he can hardly move his stick in the general direction that he wants to aim towards :)
@@darkin1484 I highly doubt that any console player will pull 150k twitch viewers with tons of sponsorship towards their game, or even draw people from other games for their sick gameplay.
Let's be real, they're going to absolutely break movement with this patch. Remember the last time they broke the slide mechanic on accident when they "removed" octane jump pad wall run? The ability to do those wall runs was so niche and not useful at all in a match but they wasted time and resources anyway to remove it from the game and in doing so temporarily broke slide momentum off of objects. 100% this is what's going to happen with 10.1.
@@juaquiqui-kun4333 It made the game slow because you could easily heal while moving, which didn't align with the fast paced gameplay which apex is loved for.
Remember the time they accidentally broke bhopping in a patch? Not bhop healing, no, bhopping. The movement felt so bad that I legit wanted to uninstall right then and there. Luckily it was just a bug and they fixed it really quickly, but I can see this "fix" going into a similar direction and probably messing with air-strafe or momentum shifts.
@@Drinkyoghurt that’s what the owner of the first comment was talking about. That affected me a lot because whenever I see a ledge I always jump and slide to it so it can give me a boost
@@michaeljhale23 They talked about removing flip reset when they started getting popular and quickly understood why they shouldn't when casuals and pros alike started trashing them on social media. respawn don't seem to care about what people say so it's very unlikely the same thing happens.
Not really thou. Everyone can do a flip resets, controller or mnk. The solution here was to give pad players a way to tap strafe instead of removing it.
I 100% agree that the best way to solve tap-strafing is to give that ability to controler player. I, as a controler player and Apex movement lover, would love to be able to master that as well.
@TooFrostii But the thing is, you don't die to the movement. Mokey said it here, you just need to not shoot if you are not on target. I feel like it's perfectly fine to have an ability to escape gunfire, the biggest frustration comes from being shot at and guaranteed to die, because there is no way out. The TTK is so big that if the enemy gets the drop on you, you have basically no chance of outshooting them, your only escape from death would be movement and when that is taken away.... well, let's just say the game isn't fun anymore.
The say all this like we controller players care about pc players. I've been playing apex since release and nobody has killed me with this mechanic, and even if the movement sistem on controller is smaller than pc, I love it. I've been learning to superglide, and the whole experience of learning a new mechanic is fun. Just make tapstrafe posible on controller and everything will be fine and balanced for everyone. Keep the learning experience, movement is all about what this game is.
As a controller player, the problem is as tap strafing grows, PC players will master it, find more uses for it, and eventually it would spread to a common mechanic to learn. Vs controllers can’t even do it. I don’t think tap strafing is bad I think it’s great, its just not healthy for the game if it continued. I think they should have given tap strafe to controller because it is a really cool mechanic.
@@mainsera4407 I really don't think tap strafing would have ever become a common mechanic. You and me understand what it is and how it works, but that is because we watch streams, watch mokey's videos and immerse ourselves into the apex community online. The reality is that 95% of the apex playerbase never even opens the subreddit or the twitter account. I do agree that giving tap strafe to controller would have been a *way* better solution though.
@@mainsera4407 I don't think that's a problem at all. Walljump has been forever in the game, and I see very few people use it or even learn about it, I've seen levels 500 not even use the speed burst of slide-jump. Just make it a skill based mechanic, a little bit harder than it is to learn right now, and probably only pros or less than 2% of the playerbase will use it (sorry my bad english)
@God Rolf, The Ed position Well when it gives one group an advantage over another then yeah its not healthy. People use aim asisst as an example of this.
even though I never learned to tap straf I'm quite mad that it has to be removed entirely cuz they could have introduced something easier to do or at least remove the ability to bound MW to the forward movement and make it even harder to do
I just start to learn how to tap-strafe... the moment I could somehow do it quite consistently it get remove how frustrating. at least I didn't had the chance to place it in game
Imagine a sort of tap-strafe on console. Quickly double tap left or right on the left analog stick (mid-air) and you get a small momentum shift or re-direct! That would be so cool and would balance both spectrums! Awesome video, Mokey! :D
@@calvinstevickbrown8171 I mean, Ik it's smth different but, team fortress 2 demo/soldier gameplay with rocket/sticky jumping is *so* fun. They alone have dare I say it much more to uncover than apex movement, this comes as a 5k h tf2 vet who is into apex mechanics a lot. I honestly think that given enough practise it can be very fun to just play tf2 that way but it's just my thought
@@calvinstevickbrown8171 that is true, tho tf2(team fortress 2, titanfall we use for memes tf|2) community is so tight that there is more of community tf2 than official, so, even tho it’s unsupported by devs it’s still supported by the comp and general community and they make all the reworks, maps, game modes, weapons, classes, anything
how about we just get all movement back then at the start of the game you say do you want to be in movement lobbies or not and you get put into the movement lobby anyway
I’m a console player and I can’t believe that there would have been enough complaints out of the console community to have an impact on this... half the kids on console are so laggy they teleport all over the place anyways, what’s the counter-play to that?
@@xaviermaldonado1996 an exploit ?? Are u stupid or what? Less than 1% of players can use tap straffing in the middle of a fight and still win.. and that’s only on pc lobbies.. it’s literally just movement it’s not like the brainless aim assist where it literally makes the worst players have decent aim
I don't think console player are complaing about tab-strafe I've been since season 7 and never got a tab strafe master in my lobbies, because we only get controller players.
console aint the ones complaining ...pc controller users are...why are people constantly mentioning consoles in this debate xD crossplay has been a thing for like 2 seasons
I love the idea of not being able to bind "w" to the scrollwheel its such a good idea. It would make tap strafing a very high skill movement technique .
pretty soon i'tll be just like any other FPS. aceu said it best, "sucking the fun out of apex". uniqueness and creativity in apex is what makes it so much better than any other FPS out there, its that shit that keeps me wanting to play, so i can learn all the neat tricks, build a muscle memory for it and apply it on my gameplay. i just dont want to run and gun weve done that shit since forever!
Yeah! Games like cod and other basic shooters are all the same, aim good, win game. Versus apex where just having good aim doesn’t get you the win. It was entirely skill based because movement required strategy. But not anymore I guess…
Always love hearing your thoughts, I’m a casual player, I’m not pro. I play cross platform and I have never came across somebody who’s tap straffed on me. EVER. And even I think what respawn is doing is a mistake.
Respawn should have a player representative counsel with representatives chosen by players sorta like how congress works. I'll vote mokey for one spot.
don’t think I will be playing anymore, started in season 7 and quickly learned to love the crazy movement of apex. If this is the direction they want to take the game, this is not a direction I will be playing. As a game dev myself it makes me sad to see other game devs intentionally limiting skill in their game. Rest In Peace apex. U will b missed.
The only actually way to solve it, while still letting us tap strafe is to limit lurches in some way. Stopping us from binding forward to mouse wheel in game will not change anything, it simply means we have to do an identical bind outside of the game. This can be seen pretty easily in Titanfall 2, in that game there’s no reason to really bind mouse wheel to jump, because it’s pretty easy to control with space bar, but they still limit you in the game, you can not bind mouse wheel to jump. Yet this can be circumvented very easily by simply using a program such as x-mouse button control. Or of course, dream scenario, let controller players tap-strafe. It would be by far the best solution giving better movement to consoles and not taking anything away from pc, but I unfortunately think that’s not something respawn would do.
I know that they havent removed tap strafing and they decided to delay it but as a console player I really wish we could tap strafe, it looks like so much fun I would trade in my aim assist for it but respawn will be respawn why would they focus on adding something gameplay wise when they could just remove it and focus on making skins and monetisation
The thing about this decision that I really hate is how long it took for Respawn to make it. This has doubtlessly been on their radar for months. in the meantime, many players (like myself) have dedicated a lot of time to getting better at tap strafing. For them to take it away now is a huge Fuck You to everyone who took the time to try to get better at the game. If they thought this was going to help close the gap between controller and M+KB players, they really have achieved the opposite effect, as the two groups have never been more antagonistic towards each other than they are right now in the wake of this action. The PC players resent having their fun toy taken away, and smug controller users are rubbing it in, even though it really didn't even affect most of them in the first place. Things are genuinely ugly right now and Respawn made a huge mistake in not only waiting this long to pull the trigger, but to announce it before they had their full justification written out to defend themselves. It is the worst possible outcome.
See idk if it actually is in their long term financial interests. I remember apex legends launch it wasn't casual players that got people playing apex it was pros and streamers, this change alienates a huge portion of those people. Doesn't matter to me though I put 2 thousand hours into the game and I play less and less this season has been 2 or 3 sessions of apex a month. I think this is the end of my apex days, that 60gb is looking real nice as more space for skyrim mods.
Same, 2k hours, day1 player, s3 pred by soloq, enjoying advanced movement. I wanted to grind rankeds this season for some nice badge, but it wasn't fun with the OP seer meta in the beginning, so I waited 2 weeks for a damn nerf and now they come up with this. Makes you think about quitting apex for good. Even the Valkyrie's ult made any ring positioning non existent in rankeds last season- probably so the noobs don't have to worry about getting to ring. These casual updates are just sad.
new hot take (not really) but ive been thinking about how Respawn treats casual players. they treat them like idotic toddlers who cant learn something for them selves, and because of it they remove "inaccessible movement" and such rather then spending time to maybe make a tutorial for it that is ingame or even on a apex's site. but all that requires effort on respawns part, and respawn to treat casual player like intelligent beings.
@@sticktotheextreme yeah just imagine if they properly leaned into the movement side of things. Its also kinda funny how they insist on keeping SBMM but wont let us keep a high skill ceiling.
I just recently nailed all these movement techniques and was having hell of a fun time playing apex and icreasing my results, i was really doing pretty good, but i drop the game as soon as this happens. Movement was everything in this game
Same for me, only learned tap strafing like 1.5 month ago and I love it. If they were to remove this I am quitting this game until they bring it back (which probably won’t happen)
@@nightslayerofficial2427 I've been tap strafing since season 6 and it's literally apart of my Gameplay now. Tap strafing has opened up a whole new department for me when it comes to movement and I can't seem to go back as the game seems stale without it. I know this isn't an airport but I'm announcing my departure after 3k+ hours of gameplay and that seeing tap strafing is their main focus yet we've had terrible audio, random bugs, controller players still standing still while looting, etc makes me highly disappointed especially when their goal is to even the playing field with console players... Like stay in your own lobbies or acknowledge youre at a disadvantage and get over it we don't have a choice and we have to play with you guys while you don't. It's common sense right? We are at "144fps+, have our whole arms to aim, $3k+ setup's, etc" yet you guys still have the audacity to come to pc servers and complain that we have the advantage...
@@Z34_TR It's more of a mechanical advantage than anything. Of course the player with more inputs has a higher skill ceiling than their console equivalent.
The only place that goes in depth in the only field that is fun in apex, im on console but i dont mind if a player really spent a lot of time learning such a mechanic to outplay me, they deserve it! And also i have been practicing to mimick this movement tricks on console myself and somehow you can use them, i can confirm that with much less potential and viability it is possible to tap strafe on console, kind of a momentum shift but sideways and as we all know sudden movement while using octanes double jump grants you a replica of tap strafe i really enjoy your content mokey, helped me alot both in apex and my all time favorite game titanfall 2 keep doing what you do cause you're doing it the best
Man, we need more understanding people like you. I've seen so many raging console players that just seem like a hivemind. Hopefully Respawn goes back on update this and gives everyone the ability to improve on their gameplan.
@@TheSabreKnight and also we need more understanding people like you! Its hard to even fucking move on controller and people say we have aim assist lol. i know that it is overpowered but cmon man we cant flick or strafe crazy like m&k
funny how everyone complains on tap strafing being removed when most of the players aren't skilled or lucky enough to find a situation for actually use it, but i'm kinda against this decision as this is a very characteristic feature of a Source game, removing it is just spite in the unique magic that offers Source. In my opinion i've never managed to pull that technique on something that was actually useful in combat, most of the time i spend a match downed against people with higher ranks thanks to the matchmaking joke that this game has
see and thats what a lot of us mean when we say it takes skill, its not that its hard to learn but rather extremely hard to master and be able to use frequently IN GAME not firing range.
@@SoapSubs funny enough I fully mastered tap strafing after countless hours of training and they announced it being remove the day after. Just my luck.
@@kaisenwastaken i had literally just figured out how to use consistently for wall bounces and general movement and i found out it will be getting removed in two days. And i wont even get to use it during its final moments be because it’s a week day
you are spitting some truth, but it´s EA after all, they only want the moneyz and don´t really care about the game, so they want to make the game accecible for noobs
I find the "It's inaccessible, lack readability/counterplay, and is exacerbated by movement abilities." Is rather ironic coming from the people who brought us TF1 and 2
They said it several times, Tf is where these crazy movements happen. You get killed without knowing how, a pilot approaching from half a map and zooms half a map away again. That's not Apex.
@@taufiqbmr Neither of y'all got my point. I know Apex isn't TF I said it was ironic. I didn't say it was a bad decision (Though personally I don't like the decision, I get why the did it)
Mokey, fyi in case you don't follow controller implementations of techniques- you can bind a paddle to the W key in Steam, but not only as a single press, steam allows you to hold the paddle down and it will give you multiple quick inputs of W. This has allowed me to Tap strafe easily on controller on PC and it has been super fun and rewarding. I realized this is a bit of a macro, but as it was allowed in Steam, and I think it's basically the equivalent to using the scroll wheel as we have no wheel-like input on controller for multiple fast single inputs, I felt it was fair and even beyond that, it is so much freaking fun. Simply giving us an option to allow a controller button to be rebound to W with repeated inputs gives accessibility. Problem solved. Add it to console, leave movement alone for heaven's sake
MOKEY READ THIS!! WE ARE IN SERIOUS TROUBLE!!! TL;DR - Removing tap strafing requires the removal of lurch which would also remove other movement tech such as redirects, wall bounce climb skip, mid-air strafe during combat that you see people like FAV_Aimbot and Selly do, and other mechanics that would require lurch to be pulled off, effectively crippling MK+B movement significantly.
You are the only one I have seen so far mention this about this whole debacle which is what I think will happen as well. It's the only way to remove tap strafing. In one of mokeys own videos he mentions lurch was an MnK only thing that was supposed to be something to mimic the seamless input of an analog stick. It is basis of tap strafing. Even Pros are saying "well there will still be redirects and wall bouncing/wall climb cancelation, etc". Not if they outright remove lurch which is the only thing I can think of that removes tap strafing outright.
Now that I uninstalled the game after busting out a new montage every month, they can get rid of all movement tech. I dont care anymore about this game. They fucked up big time.
6:24 "We will just have to live with the fact that my definition of having fun does not totally align with what apex legends wants to be." I'm having less fun each patch but the big ones are strike 1: forced crossplay on pc, radio-silent about the balance between inputs. strike 2: removing tap-strafe strike 3: coming soon!
Removing Tap strafing from the scroll wheel is in direct opposition to it being "accessible"!! Binding it to scroll wheel makes it more accessible, not less!!
Respawn nearly half a decade ago: we will not be removing slide hopping/bunny hopping from Titanfall 2 Respawn now: We need to remove tap strafing because it’s not accessible.
As a console player, I think this decision it's an absolute mistake. The only way to play against PC in console it's playing with someone from PC in your group. From the experience I have playing with PC friends, it doesn't even bother, because it's a sign that the other player it's better than you
Give an actual solution to beat a pc player instead of”mAKe frIeNds WiTh pC plAyEr” I also disagree with it being removed as a console player but beat a pc players by getting good and getting better aim
@@dosomestuff1949 I’m pretty sure they meant console players can only get in PC lobbies if there is a PC player in their squad, not that you need PC friends to beat PC players
Advanced tech like this just doesn't make a difference unless the other person you're against is as good as you are and you need a quick technique to use to give yourself an advantage. If itztimmy pulls up on someone that hasn't put the time in to learning the game, or hasn't been playing the game long enough to do so, The tap strafe is the LEAST of this players problem because he's about to take an almost perfectly accurate mag dump from someone that has superior positioning, pathing route and game sense. That guy is DEAD, and a Tap strafe getting thrown into that mix is disrespectful at worse and unnecessary at best, but completely irrelevant to why that guys about to become a statistic
God if I could like this video a thousand times, I remember the first time I ever watched one of your videos it was the one at 0:00 I was new to apex, I was (a console player) and I thought that tap strafing was unfair, and unbalance I just couldn't wait for it to be removed (not knowing it had nothing to do with me) after a while of playing and watching PC players, and seeing more and more movement tech I got a PC I was excited and the first thing i learned to do (besides how to play on a PC XD) was tap strafing it became my favorite thing about apex I did when it was unnecessary, I panicked and didn't do it when it was necessary and died, but with hours and hours of playing I learned basically everything about it found out how to do it how to combine it with other tech, how tap stafe-wall jump, to wall jump-tap stafe how to 180 how to all types of things. Seeing it was being removed was so heartbreaking, I heard that it was to be removed and I just wondered... why, for console integration, because it has a glitch attached to it or something, then to see the tweet I just thought it was bs i spent so much time just for it to be removed. But yea ik I'm basically just ranting and saying things thousands of people have said now, but hopefully tap strafe isn't removed or it is and we get a cooler movement tech with its removal. So there is only one thing I can do now... *WAIT FASTER*
Hey, now that the patch notes are out, I don't think we have to worry as much! They basically said all they're doing is removing the ability to bind W to your scroll wheel. So then I (not a movement god, just a decent pathfinder) hopped into the firing range, chucked down a bunch of bounce pads and started experimenting. Turns out, you can totally just tap strafe by spamming W. I was unable to get more than like 100 degrees out of it, so no more 180 degree whip around bullshit (which honestly is kinda broken), but you can still easily do 90's just by pressing W like 4-5 times while you turn. I tested this with bounce pads, sliding with octane stim, sliding with no bonus momentum, sliding out of a grapple slingshot, etc. and it's really, really not that hard. Yes, scroll wheel was easier, but this really isn't that tricky. We should be good to go :)
The octane flying in the beginning of your clip is the main counterargument for your whole video in regard to all players who hardwarewise cannot access tapstrafing. Breaking or circumventing a fix or finding a new accidental mistake by the devs is an exploit by definition.
saw someone tweeted "might as well turn this game into a controller based game too if you wanted to reside by them too much" i laughed and feel sad a bit then i moved on
not sure if someone mentioned this, but John Larson, associate live balance designer, posted a twitlonger about his insights on tap-strafing. this is a small bit of his post, "The goal is to remove some of the sharpness in momentum conservation around 90°+ angles. That’s what I’m thinking of when I use the term “tap-strafe” throughout this post. Things like wall-bounce redirect back onto that same wall should feel unchanged, but movement afforded by scroll-wheel strafing will be removed."
Something died inside of me after I read Respawn tweet. I think, tapstrafe is a thing that made Apex movement so insanely beautiful and satisfying. Apex will be definitely a lot worse without it if Respawn don't change their minds. SaveApexStrafe
Got a question, what's gonna happen to my auto exec cfg file? Will it become useless when the update drops on the 14th? Or is it only gonna take a way/nullify the mouse wheel/W bind? For instance I have CL Show Pos command and some lighting/graphics changes in my cfg file not just the scroll wheel/W bind.
Well where ever you plan on going with games whether its apex or not I will still be enjoying your content. I know I shouldn't be this bummed out about it being gone but the fact that I spent hundreds of hours incorporating it into my gameplay, just to see it get removed is one of the most disheartening feelings I've felt in while.
Ill state what I stated on twitter. If respawn launched this game with titanfall movement. I would have no issue with tap strafing. It would make a nice steady progression of movement skills. Think of it like this: You are a new player to apex You start learning advanced movement with sliding Then wallrunning Then slide hopping. Then wall kicking Then air strafing Then tap strafing Then supergliding Etc. Each level of movement techniques slowly works the player up in movement skill. Allowing for a steady progression of skill. It also makes the playerbase’s movement skill a spectrum rather than someone who knows movement vs someone who knows nothing. Rn the game has a clear separation between movement gods and casuals. Making players that doesn’t use these techniques feel helpless when encountering them. I want apex to have a movement system that draws you in with its approachability and simplicity, has a steady skill progression and then tops it off with some niche techniques that give you just a little bit more of an edge. Also moke you need to understand that apex as a br game is inherently casual and that something like this was going to happen.
Here's my take on this. They should either: 1. Remove tap-strafing and increase the air strafe speed, kinda similar to how CS:GO does it. That way both controller and m&k players can have the same set of movement mechanics. OR 2. Only remove scroll wheel tap-strafing as that takes almost no skill to perform and is incredibly broken when mastered.
it's almost 6 months after i started playing this game without really trying to learn tap strafing, so it's still pretty fun without the movement exploits especially if its not really intended to be there since it can chain with other movement like wall jumping.
@JayBiebs said that their most concern of tap-strafing is the 180° octane jump pad and pathfinder grapple. I admit that those seems insane(but those take high skill to do and high risk to fail). But it is not fair to make low-speed tap-strafing a collateral damage. I can now think of two solutions: 1. Tap-strafing works only when the player's speed is lower than 700(or 600). 2. If the player's speed is higher than 700(or 600), the player's speed will be set to 700(or 600) after tap-strafing.
I share the same worries. The removel of tap strafing will very likely butcher other movement tech such like momentum shifts since they utilize lurches as well. Momentum shift to skip climbing animation requires a minimum of 3 lurches (I may be wrong, but this is how I do it), meaning they need to at least let you stack 3 lurches if they want to preserve that mechanic. It's also worth noting that momentum shift/tap strafing to skip climb animations is far more common than fancy 180 degree tapstrafe outplays, and used often in tournaments. Here's the thing. Even with only 3 lurches you can still pull off ~150 degree turns while maintaining most of your momentum(and I believe you can push it further with more precise angles/inputs). The only difference is that you can't face forward, but this is something player skill will easily compensate for. One of their reasons was that it was inaccessible. But the way I see it, the removal of scrollwheel based tapstrafing makes it MORE inaccessible to the average player. Limiting ourselves to PC, lets say that 1% of the playerbase knew about tapstrafing and had the binds to do it easily. Of that 1%, only 1% knew how to actually use it in an actual fight to give themselves an advantage. This means only 0.01% of the playerbase could effectively use tapstrafing to gain an advantage. However, 0.99% of them were capable of pulling it off, and with some practice can use it in an actual fight. Assuming they keep all other movement mechanics in the game (ie 3 or more lurches in a jump), the 0.01% will learn how to optimize those lurches to get the most out of them, since it directly affects their skill. On the other hand, the 0.99% will likely not bother to learn how to manage their limited lurches, since it gives them no tangible benefit. Effectively, they will be raising the skill floor for such movement, thereby making it LESS accessible.
Having a lot of (balanced) movement options always makes a game more fun. That's why simply running around in Apex is already fun, especially as Pathfinder or Octane. Taking away tap-strafing just makes the players who know about it and practiced it have less fun in the game. And the players who don't know about it or don't care to practice it, don't care if it gets removed either way. Embrace the movement, Respawn, double dip into that and add more accessible fun movement mechanics. It's always better to have more movement options as long as they don't break the game.
I always found aiming and shooting in apex easier than other games coming from cs, quake etc, but going up against a good wraith who knows how to tap strafe was one of the difficult parts of this game and taxed my aiming alot and was genuinely surprised how difficult aiming could be when movement is used to it fullest, but with tap strafing being removed I feel like the game is going to get even more easier in terms of aim lmaoo
I am honestly surprised they even kept it this long. It's first and foremost an engine exploit that's not meant to be in the game or part or the way the game was designed to be played. Being able to do 180 turns so quickly and combines with super gliding is game breaking imo as much as I enjoy the quick turns and movement etc. The game would still be fun as it was fun even before people discovered all these exploits
thats a genious solution. Add the ability to lurch on controller, and dont let players bind forward movement to W... you're already unable to bind jump to scrollwheel in titanfall, so the developers should already know about this.
Told my apex friends about the loss of my beloved mechanic and none of them cared, and some were actually happy. The only reason they had? Quote: “Cuz I can’t do it and the speedy octanes keep killing me”. Rip tap strafing. You will be missed by those who loved you
Gunz 2: effectively kills itself by limiting and regulating movement and animation cancels, killing off one of the highest skill ceiling games of all time Respawn: Hold my beer.
Honestly, i'm genuinely pissed that they are gonna remove tapstrafing, the large amount of movement capabilities in this game was the main reason i started playing apex, it's painful to see this happening.
I like a lot of the points in this video and I really appreciate how you approach giving criticism to the devs. Sensational content creators who rage will not be taken seriously, but calm and collected reasoning is much more likely to be heard. Thank you for being a pillar of this community, bringing both positivity and legitimate critiques. One point I think is important to mention however is that the devs making financial decisions shouldn't necessarily be seen as greedy. I know that wasn't said explicitly but was implied. Without making decisions that help the company financially, they wouldn't have the resources to create all the wonderful content we do enjoy in the game. Every season is bigger and more ambitious, and they even spend the time to make tiny changes to the map for easter eggs. None of that would be possible without the money to pay the devs. If they feel that removing this movement mechanic will allow the broader community to thrive, and therefore have enough resources to make the game better in other ways, maybe it's worth it in the end. It is sad to see this unique mechanic go, and it does feel like a misstep in terms of the relationship to pc and higher skill players, but like you said hopefully this will open the door for other mechanics, or just other content in general. Thanks again for all the work that you do, you are a big reason this community is so strong right now.
This is actually the best take so far on this tap strafing issue. Couldn't have said it better, i'll just fucking miss tap strafing so much, game ain't gonna hit the same no more.
Here’s the thing, I can’t tap strafe and I don’t wanna learn. But, I don’t want them to get rid of it, it adds an extra bit of challenge for me as a player and I don’t want it to change because it would make it slightly easier which is boring to me.
Another well scripted and put together video from our movement daddy! Thanks for sharing your concerns in a constructive and non biased manner as usual. You always offer perspective and I respect you for that! Here's hoping the backlash is enough for them to reconsider OR they break something and give us new movement tech!
I mean if the game is crossplay and PC can do something thats impossible on consoles i think thats unfair, either give everyone the same opportunity or no opportunity at all. I think its a dope tec but the skill gap is to far apart
I'm a console player. I've been playing since season 1 and this game has been great, I've learned something called a "flick strafe" a few seasons ago and I've been enjoying going against a tap strafing pc player so far. I honestly think this feature is fair. Because not everyone know how to use it (as said in video) but I just want to have fun at the end of the day... So going against a good player that can tap strafe could cure my boredom and possibly bring back my competitiveness. Of course this comment wouldn't change the minds of respawn though
The thing is, there’s crazy movement tech on console too. I just witnessed climb sliding the other day and it looked insane (it’s also super hard to do consistently). Apex just has a very free flowing movement system where people will always find ways to maximize speed. That’s what makes the game fun outside of the shooting.
Of courses this happens right when I’m about to finish my PC build . I really love the movement in this game and I really don’t want to see it removed.
If you guys want to experience tapstrafing after it's removed you can try a game called Krunker. It's a very simple game but it has a similar mechanic to tap strafing. It also has shotgun jumping and wall bouncing so yeah. Very movement based.
Idk if you read JayBiebs' little rant on why tap strafe is being removed, but in there he says wallbouncing and redirecting onto the wall should remain, so I'm assuming redirects won't be affected (if Respawn don't mess it up accidentally). He also says the fix will be tweakable on-the-fly to restrict or allow tap-strafing, without client updates, which means it will be server-sided game variable they can mess with. I'm guessing it will be a cap on how many movement inputs can be registered after a jump, so they can allow 2/3 inputs for redirects, but no more, so you can't tap-strafe.
I love you so much mokey, very impressed you weren't as livid as I am at the prospect of these changes, and share some optimism. This really left a bad taste in my mouth I haven't really felt regarding this game since... idk heal bhop changes. Thanks for being a light in the community ❤️
Ah yes, because Seers heartbeat passive most definitely has counter play and readability.
This.
Thisthisthisthis this ThIs FRIGGEN THIS!!! GOD DAMN IT!!!
You can actually hear it as an enemy
@@ArnaudChubaka if you can, it’s damn low audio. who actually LISTENS after a nearby seer
underrated comment
is wild they put a legend like that into the game, insane
*tap strafing get removed* mokey the next day: Hello everyone welcome to this new movement technique of how to fly in apex legends
But it only works with PC
🤣🤣🤣
Tap strafing gets removed: Every M&K player complains about inequality.... Welcome to game politics....
@@kylethompson3218 seems about right
respawn: "but there is no counterplay!!!!"
also respawn: "ok so, this legend can see where you are trough walls, make a big ass cilinder that can stop whatever youre doing, reveal you and show your hp and you got a very small amount of time to dodge it"
if you watch the video:
1. respawn: tap strafing shys away our target audience of casuals who would spend money unlocking legends
2. respawn: Seer is a new legend that needs to be unlocked by legend tokens or real word money increasing our revenue. we would rather make new legends overpowered than underpowered and nerf them as time goes on.
Makes perfect sense to me! EA challenge everything.
Only thing you can do realistically is lobby your government to limit copyright from ridiculous ~130 years (deathtime of every involved dev+70 years) to something reasonable like 25 years. So we can at least legally play this game how we want to within our lifetimes.
@@kwinzman imma do it rn
@@kwinzman I'm back, they just told me that I'm wasting their time :(
@@localvoid69420 waste their time untill they have no time left so they have no choices :)
(Some of these only apply to console)
1- sound effect of someone falling when you finish a squad
2- not being able to reload while a downed teammate is in front of you
3- not being able to reload while holding a door
4- not being able to shield swap with a shield on the ground, because most often it glitches and swaps back to the empty shield
5- getting crushed when you kill someone and you are standing between the death-box and a door
6- not being able to move while looting a death-box
How about they fix these things that are actually frustrating control players?
Instead of taking away thr most fun mechanic from m&k players? :/
No. 1 is not just a console problem.
@@arunavsingh also No.5, but yes if they fixed these first, it wouldn't be a problem. Like swapping from red armor to gold.
Not to mention not being able to choose a legend half the time
As a PC player who uses controller mostly, this comment deserves more likes.
no1 is pc too, get it all the time
They are taking away unique movement away from a unique game.
Yes retro yes
i dont get why they will do it, but super glide is still a thing and imo could be used more better than the tap strafing
T_T
@@explosivez1096 it can, if it weren't for the extreme timing.
Yeah...
Mokey: you can't do this to me, i started this company
DO YOU KNOW WHAT I've SACRIFICED?!
Oh respawn please.
Tap strafing be like: AVENGE ME!!!!
I fucking love you guys
there are so many other problems the game has and their top priority is removing a super fun movement technique hardly anyone ever used but maybe 1% of the playerbase.
Removing or lowering the skil ceiling isnt a good choice by respawn period
Yeah.. Its always easier to crack down on the 1%
There priorities are wack
@@emilhappy5696 except when it comes to the rich aka the 1%. 🥴
@@User-xl8ke hah ! So true
Its not rly top 1% tho I stumbled on this mechanic in some clip and learned it in bronze. I think they should just promote the mechanic more and make it viable on console.
As my honest opinion as a console player I have no complaints on tap-strafing although it does give pc players an unfair edge the amount of pc players able to pull off consistent and effective tap-strafes in battle is very minuscule and those who are able to learn to pull off such a move should be given that edge in battle because of the time and effort it took to learn it
This right here. This is the appropriate line of thinking.
i mean, it only took 1 or 2 days to learn and get used to it but i think it's a fair patch, im tired of seeing sweaty trash wraiths moving like crazy but missing all their shot and get shit on
@@Laevatei1nn and that goes back to what I said about being able to use is effectively
ppl that can use it effectively will laser you anyways so...
@@Elias_Ainzworth like what was said in the video learn to conserve ammo in a gun fight by actually hitting your target and not shooting randomly if you can hit your shots you will kill them people who can tap-strafe successfully and laser you have definitely put a lot of time and effort in maintaining that skill you should respect that
It's been a hell of a ride
Rest in piece tap-strafing, you will be missed o7
Time to start playing Titanfall 2
@@--.I....I-.-- LOL, if it's not still being hacked out of usability while respawn turns a blind eye.
o7
@@GageMason At least we can see how shit that company is... Fucking up Apex AND not caring about that DDOS for such a long time
@@--.I....I-.-- Fr
If they wanted to improve readability of high-mobility characters, then why haven't they fixed the silent jumppad audio glitch yet? Maybe if we could hear Octane coming, we could kill him without having to make the game literally less fun to play in general.
the jumpad always makes a noise it just depends on how close you are to it ....which i guessing is not close if the octane is jumpading onto you
@@chavezjoseph8140 The initial jump has consistent sound but the double jump is frequently completely silent, and i say that as an Octane main who spends a lot of time using jumppads lol. Even if it usually works to my benefit I can't deny that it is an unfair advantage
@@someoldcliche ok but does the double jump make a sound at all ? And again if they do the second jump further away what sound should be heard ? Because if they do the second jump above you ..you hear it ..but if it's let's say before they get to the building how'd you hear it ?
@@chavezjoseph8140 The double jump does in fact have a distinct sound effect, and I can confirm that the sound bug not only affects other players- I often get zero sound as the player doing the double jump, which should not be possible. The game has a lot of audio issues in general but I am pretty disappointed that they are taking out tap strafing to eliminate fun but they won't fix sound issues that have a tangible effect on gameplay which have been around for multiple seasons. I would argue that the second jump sound is even more important than the initial pad jump as the pad itself can be far enough away from you that you won't hear it at all, and if you don't hear the second jump you will be caught completely unaware. You can't counterplay that
@@someoldcliche aaaah I see
I've literally never seen any console players complain about getting tap strafed on. It doesnt happen. We just complain about not being able to do it. If their solution to that complaint is to take it out of the game, then thats just dumb
I've only ever jokingly yelled at pricks that tap strafe into buildings while I shoot at them. It's really funny to see though (PS4 player with a PC friend).
@@notblabby ong they be dodging my shit annd i’d be impressed instead of mad they gon die anyway it’s inevitable
@@axlelijah2327 Ong all Its ever done for me Is slightly delay my Inevitable death
The only one I saw complaining was nicewigg
when pc players do the same thing with aim assist
Apex community should be like: After much consideration and debate, we've decided to remove our credit cards/paypal or any payment information from shop store.
Our reasoning: It's inaccessible, lacks readability/reasoning and is exacerbated by clownery abilities.
said it with warzone decisions, you basically said it here. these devs only speak money.
Exactly just cut off there income for a big part.
Apex community should be like: After much consideration and debate, we've decided to remove our credit cards/paypal or any payment information from shop store.
Our reasoning: It's inaccessible, lacks readability/reasoning and is exacerbated by stupid developer decisions of limited creativity and understanding of their own game.
Thats all true and great, but you have to remember the one giving the big bucks are the consoles, thats where their long term financial profit lies, and therefore thats the audience they will prioritize :) console won't remove credit card info because they lose nothing XD they never could use it so its good if other limited 0.1% of apex can't use it either in the offchance that once in 500 games someone tap strafes on you in crossplay and that same person died to controller oneclip from a gold player at like 20 meters when he can hardly move his stick in the general direction that he wants to aim towards :)
@@darkin1484 I highly doubt that any console player will pull 150k twitch viewers with tons of sponsorship towards their game, or even draw people from other games for their sick gameplay.
@@zerohour980 doesnt change the fact that they profit more from the console community ...pretty sure ...80% of the viewers are also console users
Let's be real, they're going to absolutely break movement with this patch. Remember the last time they broke the slide mechanic on accident when they "removed" octane jump pad wall run? The ability to do those wall runs was so niche and not useful at all in a match but they wasted time and resources anyway to remove it from the game and in doing so temporarily broke slide momentum off of objects. 100% this is what's going to happen with 10.1.
Also after they removed b hop healing, the movement felt sluggish for me
@@juaquiqui-kun4333 It made the game slow because you could easily heal while moving, which didn't align with the fast paced gameplay which apex is loved for.
@@memelordozai8553 how is movement healing opposing to apex which, as far as i know, is a MOVEMENT based game???
Remember the time they accidentally broke bhopping in a patch? Not bhop healing, no, bhopping. The movement felt so bad that I legit wanted to uninstall right then and there. Luckily it was just a bug and they fixed it really quickly, but I can see this "fix" going into a similar direction and probably messing with air-strafe or momentum shifts.
@@Drinkyoghurt that’s what the owner of the first comment was talking about. That affected me a lot because whenever I see a ledge I always jump and slide to it so it can give me a boost
equivalent to removing flip resets from rocket league
lol literally
@@runtyjambo5018 im 2sad
Literally exactly that. Yet their devs welcome the skill gap. And that game is still very popular after so many years.
@@michaeljhale23 They talked about removing flip reset when they started getting popular and quickly understood why they shouldn't when casuals and pros alike started trashing them on social media. respawn don't seem to care about what people say so it's very unlikely the same thing happens.
Not really thou. Everyone can do a flip resets, controller or mnk.
The solution here was to give pad players a way to tap strafe instead of removing it.
I 100% agree that the best way to solve tap-strafing is to give that ability to controler player. I, as a controler player and Apex movement lover, would love to be able to master that as well.
You already can on controller
@@bamboclaat7204 i this he meant on console
They would have to remove tap strafing and add something new if they want controller to be able to do the same thing
They need to let controller players move while looting and shit
@TooFrostii But the thing is, you don't die to the movement. Mokey said it here, you just need to not shoot if you are not on target. I feel like it's perfectly fine to have an ability to escape gunfire, the biggest frustration comes from being shot at and guaranteed to die, because there is no way out. The TTK is so big that if the enemy gets the drop on you, you have basically no chance of outshooting them, your only escape from death would be movement and when that is taken away.... well, let's just say the game isn't fun anymore.
The say all this like we controller players care about pc players. I've been playing apex since release and nobody has killed me with this mechanic, and even if the movement sistem on controller is smaller than pc, I love it. I've been learning to superglide, and the whole experience of learning a new mechanic is fun. Just make tapstrafe posible on controller and everything will be fine and balanced for everyone. Keep the learning experience, movement is all about what this game is.
As a controller player, the problem is as tap strafing grows, PC players will master it, find more uses for it, and eventually it would spread to a common mechanic to learn. Vs controllers can’t even do it. I don’t think tap strafing is bad I think it’s great, its just not healthy for the game if it continued. I think they should have given tap strafe to controller because it is a really cool mechanic.
@@mainsera4407 I really don't think tap strafing would have ever become a common mechanic. You and me understand what it is and how it works, but that is because we watch streams, watch mokey's videos and immerse ourselves into the apex community online. The reality is that 95% of the apex playerbase never even opens the subreddit or the twitter account. I do agree that giving tap strafe to controller would have been a *way* better solution though.
@@mainsera4407 I don't think that's a problem at all. Walljump has been forever in the game, and I see very few people use it or even learn about it, I've seen levels 500 not even use the speed burst of slide-jump. Just make it a skill based mechanic, a little bit harder than it is to learn right now, and probably only pros or less than 2% of the playerbase will use it (sorry my bad english)
@God Rolf, The Ed position
Well when it gives one group an advantage over another then yeah its not healthy. People use aim asisst as an example of this.
@@mainsera4407 You can tap strafe with a controller on PC.
even though I never learned to tap straf I'm quite mad that it has to be removed entirely cuz they could have introduced something easier to do or at least remove the ability to bound MW to the forward movement and make it even harder to do
I just start to learn how to tap-strafe... the moment I could somehow do it quite consistently it get remove how frustrating. at least I didn't had the chance to place it in game
Imagine a sort of tap-strafe on console. Quickly double tap left or right on the left analog stick (mid-air) and you get a small momentum shift or re-direct! That would be so cool and would balance both spectrums! Awesome video, Mokey! :D
What is this a combo game
@@KaFullah pretty much. The movement tricks are officially called "movement combos"
@@kiwilim5261 trying to say just moving ur analog stick twice in a direction without doing anything else would feel dumb
@@KaFullah too big brain for Caveman
@@KaFullah so you have never played a game where the main movement is "double tap forward to sprint"?
"... and other games." Let's go Mokey! Let's find new wings, if Apex chooses to clip ours.
Sad thing is there just arent as well supported movement games out there. Respawn make their games great then break them apart from the inside
@@calvinstevickbrown8171 I mean, Ik it's smth different but, team fortress 2 demo/soldier gameplay with rocket/sticky jumping is *so* fun. They alone have dare I say it much more to uncover than apex movement, this comes as a 5k h tf2 vet who is into apex mechanics a lot. I honestly think that given enough practise it can be very fun to just play tf2 that way but it's just my thought
Ngl even with the tap strafing the movement in Titanfall 2 is still way better but it has no support..
@@neko3154 the thing is with your tf2 and my tf2 is neither of them are supported any more D:
@@calvinstevickbrown8171 that is true, tho tf2(team fortress 2, titanfall we use for memes tf|2) community is so tight that there is more of community tf2 than official, so, even tho it’s unsupported by devs it’s still supported by the comp and general community and they make all the reworks, maps, game modes, weapons, classes, anything
Trade offer:
You take tap-strafing
We get zipline movement back
XDDDD
how about we just get all movement back then at the start of the game you say do you want to be in movement lobbies or not and you get put into the movement lobby anyway
I’m a console player and I can’t believe that there would have been enough complaints out of the console community to have an impact on this... half the kids on console are so laggy they teleport all over the place anyways, what’s the counter-play to that?
People complaining isn’t why they are removing it. It’s an exploit. Simple as that
@@xaviermaldonado1996 an exploit ?? Are u stupid or what? Less than 1% of players can use tap straffing in the middle of a fight and still win.. and that’s only on pc lobbies.. it’s literally just movement it’s not like the brainless aim assist where it literally makes the worst players have decent aim
I mean i have played since season 1 and have never seen a pc player tap strafing.
I don't think console player are complaing about tab-strafe I've been since season 7 and never got a tab strafe master in my lobbies, because we only get controller players.
console aint the ones complaining ...pc controller users are...why are people constantly mentioning consoles in this debate xD crossplay has been a thing for like 2 seasons
I love the idea of not being able to bind "w" to the scrollwheel its such a good idea. It would make tap strafing a very high skill movement technique .
macro lol
@@sam-jj4fm shhh don't spoil the beans........
They'll use macros at that point
They prolly add legend that can tap strafe
Incoming buff to Horizon passive lmfao
That would be the only legend I would play
pretty soon i'tll be just like any other FPS. aceu said it best, "sucking the fun out of apex". uniqueness and creativity in apex is what makes it so much better than any other FPS out there, its that shit that keeps me wanting to play, so i can learn all the neat tricks, build a muscle memory for it and apply it on my gameplay. i just dont want to run and gun weve done that shit since forever!
You said it way better than I could bro
Yeah! Games like cod and other basic shooters are all the same, aim good, win game. Versus apex where just having good aim doesn’t get you the win. It was entirely skill based because movement required strategy. But not anymore I guess…
Y’all wasn’t saying that in the beginning
@@IamEpiphanyTTV i get more dopamine when i dodge a whole r9 mag than i do when i kill someone
@@pole8740 100% dude
Always love hearing your thoughts, I’m a casual player, I’m not pro. I play cross platform and I have never came across somebody who’s tap straffed on me. EVER. And even I think what respawn is doing is a mistake.
Whats your kd
@@axlelijah2327 3
@@itschoke damn. I know tap strafe but my KD is only 1.2 average this season lmao(thanks hot drops and dumb teammates)
Respawn should have a player representative counsel with representatives chosen by players sorta like how congress works. I'll vote mokey for one spot.
I would pick Mokey, Kandy and Taisheen. For comp, casual and movement play.
lol they obviously dont play their own game, otherwise seer would not have been added the way it was.
don’t think I will be playing anymore, started in season 7 and quickly learned to love the crazy movement of apex. If this is the direction they want to take the game, this is not a direction I will be playing. As a game dev myself it makes me sad to see other game devs intentionally limiting skill in their game. Rest In Peace apex. U will b missed.
Boohoo. All hail Aim Assist or good riddance
@@FreeDiddy-69 Yikes.
Not if EA says so. Publisher can curb their Devs. We are talking about EA here. Cousin of Activision. Greed runs in the family
@@FreeDiddy-69 Chernobyl is nothing in toxicity compared to you.
@@qwerty6789x EA doesn't have anything to do with this decision pretty certain
The only actually way to solve it, while still letting us tap strafe is to limit lurches in some way. Stopping us from binding forward to mouse wheel in game will not change anything, it simply means we have to do an identical bind outside of the game.
This can be seen pretty easily in Titanfall 2, in that game there’s no reason to really bind mouse wheel to jump, because it’s pretty easy to control with space bar, but they still limit you in the game, you can not bind mouse wheel to jump. Yet this can be circumvented very easily by simply using a program such as x-mouse button control.
Or of course, dream scenario, let controller players tap-strafe. It would be by far the best solution giving better movement to consoles and not taking anything away from pc, but I unfortunately think that’s not something respawn would do.
I know that they havent removed tap strafing and they decided to delay it but as a console player I really wish we could tap strafe, it looks like so much fun I would trade in my aim assist for it but respawn will be respawn why would they focus on adding something gameplay wise when they could just remove it and focus on making skins and monetisation
Next they'll remove strafing while looting, and then sliding, sprinting after that.
they'll remove movement all together, everyone will drop in 1 spot, unable to move, unable to loot and unable to even look around
@@chillinqq3079 except seer he can still move cause that’s fair. Also Watson mains get fucking killed by hitmen
this is funny
@@chillinqq3079 lul like the titanfall ddos
The thing about this decision that I really hate is how long it took for Respawn to make it. This has doubtlessly been on their radar for months. in the meantime, many players (like myself) have dedicated a lot of time to getting better at tap strafing. For them to take it away now is a huge Fuck You to everyone who took the time to try to get better at the game.
If they thought this was going to help close the gap between controller and M+KB players, they really have achieved the opposite effect, as the two groups have never been more antagonistic towards each other than they are right now in the wake of this action. The PC players resent having their fun toy taken away, and smug controller users are rubbing it in, even though it really didn't even affect most of them in the first place. Things are genuinely ugly right now and Respawn made a huge mistake in not only waiting this long to pull the trigger, but to announce it before they had their full justification written out to defend themselves. It is the worst possible outcome.
You just took the words out of my mouth
lol im pretty sure if they just disabled cross play instead of removing tap strafing people would be fine
@@Cecil97 Or just kept PC players in PC lobbies regardless if they're teammate has a console.
See idk if it actually is in their long term financial interests. I remember apex legends launch it wasn't casual players that got people playing apex it was pros and streamers, this change alienates a huge portion of those people. Doesn't matter to me though I put 2 thousand hours into the game and I play less and less this season has been 2 or 3 sessions of apex a month. I think this is the end of my apex days, that 60gb is looking real nice as more space for skyrim mods.
Bruh more space for Skyrim mods that’s something I can get behind
Same, 2k hours, day1 player, s3 pred by soloq, enjoying advanced movement.
I wanted to grind rankeds this season for some nice badge, but it wasn't fun with the OP seer meta in the beginning, so I waited 2 weeks for a damn nerf
and now they come up with this. Makes you think about quitting apex for good.
Even the Valkyrie's ult made any ring positioning non existent in rankeds last season- probably so the noobs don't have to worry about getting to ring.
These casual updates are just sad.
very true, so many people have stuck with apex because of all the crazy new shit there is to find and learn, dumbing it down feels really detrimental.
new hot take (not really) but ive been thinking about how Respawn treats casual players. they treat them like idotic toddlers who cant learn something for them selves, and because of it they remove "inaccessible movement" and such rather then spending time to maybe make a tutorial for it that is ingame or even on a apex's site. but all that requires effort on respawns part, and respawn to treat casual player like intelligent beings.
@@sticktotheextreme yeah just imagine if they properly leaned into the movement side of things. Its also kinda funny how they insist on keeping SBMM but wont let us keep a high skill ceiling.
I just recently nailed all these movement techniques and was having hell of a fun time playing apex and icreasing my results, i was really doing pretty good, but i drop the game as soon as this happens. Movement was everything in this game
Same for me, only learned tap strafing like 1.5 month ago and I love it. If they were to remove this I am quitting this game until they bring it back (which probably won’t happen)
@@nightslayerofficial2427 I've been tap strafing since season 6 and it's literally apart of my Gameplay now. Tap strafing has opened up a whole new department for me when it comes to movement and I can't seem to go back as the game seems stale without it. I know this isn't an airport but I'm announcing my departure after 3k+ hours of gameplay and that seeing tap strafing is their main focus yet we've had terrible audio, random bugs, controller players still standing still while looting, etc makes me highly disappointed especially when their goal is to even the playing field with console players... Like stay in your own lobbies or acknowledge youre at a disadvantage and get over it we don't have a choice and we have to play with you guys while you don't. It's common sense right? We are at "144fps+, have our whole arms to aim, $3k+ setup's, etc" yet you guys still have the audacity to come to pc servers and complain that we have the advantage...
@@Z34_TR It's more of a mechanical advantage than anything. Of course the player with more inputs has a higher skill ceiling than their console equivalent.
The only place that goes in depth in the only field that is fun in apex, im on console but i dont mind if a player really spent a lot of time learning such a mechanic to outplay me, they deserve it! And also i have been practicing to mimick this movement tricks on console myself and somehow you can use them, i can confirm that with much less potential and viability it is possible to tap strafe on console, kind of a momentum shift but sideways and as we all know sudden movement while using octanes double jump grants you a replica of tap strafe i really enjoy your content mokey, helped me alot both in apex and my all time favorite game titanfall 2 keep doing what you do cause you're doing it the best
Needs punctuation and spacing, my man.
@@Sir.Craze- lol it took me like 7 to 8 minutes (more than the actual video) to write it even without punctuation 😅
Man, we need more understanding people like you. I've seen so many raging console players that just seem like a hivemind.
Hopefully Respawn goes back on update this and gives everyone the ability to improve on their gameplan.
@@TheSabreKnight and also we need more understanding people like you! Its hard to even fucking move on controller and people say we have aim assist lol. i know that it is overpowered but cmon man we cant flick or strafe crazy like m&k
Yeah I agree, Im ps4 and i queued with a pc friend once, one dude tap strafed me and i died. I was more impressed than mad
funny how everyone complains on tap strafing being removed when most of the players aren't skilled or lucky enough to find a situation for actually use it, but i'm kinda against this decision as this is a very characteristic feature of a Source game, removing it is just spite in the unique magic that offers Source.
In my opinion i've never managed to pull that technique on something that was actually useful in combat, most of the time i spend a match downed against people with higher ranks thanks to the matchmaking joke that this game has
see and thats what a lot of us mean when we say it takes skill, its not that its hard to learn but rather extremely hard to master and be able to use frequently IN GAME not firing range.
@@SoapSubs funny enough I fully mastered tap strafing after countless hours of training and they announced it being remove the day after. Just my luck.
@@kaisenwastaken i had literally just figured out how to use consistently for wall bounces and general movement and i found out it will be getting removed in two days. And i wont even get to use it during its final moments be because it’s a week day
@@agaed7676 I’ve been able to use it consistently for about a week but I finally reached Masters yesterday.
you are spitting some truth, but it´s EA after all, they only want the moneyz and don´t really care about the game, so they want to make the game accecible for noobs
Can we get a tap-strafe tribute?
No.
@Ocasus I’m not, I just play on console lmao😭
I find the "It's inaccessible, lack readability/counterplay, and is exacerbated by movement abilities." Is rather ironic coming from the people who brought us TF1 and 2
Exactly what I thought xD
Respawn isn't the same anymore.
The dark side, Respawn has turned to.
This game isn't TF1 or TF|2 though, and that's clear that they don't want it to be.
They said it several times, Tf is where these crazy movements happen. You get killed without knowing how, a pilot approaching from half a map and zooms half a map away again. That's not Apex.
@@taufiqbmr Neither of y'all got my point.
I know Apex isn't TF
I said it was ironic. I didn't say it was a bad decision
(Though personally I don't like the decision, I get why the did it)
They do this but I still have no fucking idea when someone runs up behind me since season 1. Man.
That STOP IT RIGHT NOW had me rolling on the floor 3:08
I started playing Apex becouse i wanted a movement shooter now i think i will just stop plaing completly.
Same
Mokey, fyi in case you don't follow controller implementations of techniques- you can bind a paddle to the W key in Steam, but not only as a single press, steam allows you to hold the paddle down and it will give you multiple quick inputs of W. This has allowed me to Tap strafe easily on controller on PC and it has been super fun and rewarding. I realized this is a bit of a macro, but as it was allowed in Steam, and I think it's basically the equivalent to using the scroll wheel as we have no wheel-like input on controller for multiple fast single inputs, I felt it was fair and even beyond that, it is so much freaking fun. Simply giving us an option to allow a controller button to be rebound to W with repeated inputs gives accessibility. Problem solved. Add it to console, leave movement alone for heaven's sake
That is cheating, you are using macros to tapstrafe
MOKEY READ THIS!! WE ARE IN SERIOUS TROUBLE!!!
TL;DR - Removing tap strafing requires the removal of lurch which would also remove other movement tech such as redirects, wall bounce climb skip, mid-air strafe during combat that you see people like FAV_Aimbot and Selly do, and other mechanics that would require lurch to be pulled off, effectively crippling MK+B movement significantly.
You are the only one I have seen so far mention this about this whole debacle which is what I think will happen as well. It's the only way to remove tap strafing.
In one of mokeys own videos he mentions lurch was an MnK only thing that was supposed to be something to mimic the seamless input of an analog stick. It is basis of tap strafing. Even Pros are saying "well there will still be redirects and wall bouncing/wall climb cancelation, etc". Not if they outright remove lurch which is the only thing I can think of that removes tap strafing outright.
Unless they somehow just limit the amount of inputs that are allowed. But I think that may be a little touchier to code in.
Now that I uninstalled the game after busting out a new montage every month, they can get rid of all movement tech. I dont care anymore about this game. They fucked up big time.
6:24 "We will just have to live with the fact that my definition of having fun does not totally align with what apex legends wants to be."
I'm having less fun each patch but the big ones are
strike 1: forced crossplay on pc, radio-silent about the balance between inputs.
strike 2: removing tap-strafe
strike 3: coming soon!
3:01, respawn is talking about octane, bloodhound ult, bangalore passive, horizon, basically any legends that give a speed boost or more air movement
Monkey is so good everyone he kills doesn’t bother to hold up there knockdown shield
Removing Tap strafing from the scroll wheel is in direct opposition to it being "accessible"!! Binding it to scroll wheel makes it more accessible, not less!!
Respawn nearly half a decade ago: we will not be removing slide hopping/bunny hopping from Titanfall 2
Respawn now: We need to remove tap strafing because it’s not accessible.
It's sad to see them change like this
Thanks for this Mokey! Looking forward to you showing off the changes.
As a console player, I think this decision it's an absolute mistake. The only way to play against PC in console it's playing with someone from PC in your group. From the experience I have playing with PC friends, it doesn't even bother, because it's a sign that the other player it's better than you
Give an actual solution to beat a pc player instead of”mAKe frIeNds WiTh pC plAyEr” I also disagree with it being removed as a console player but beat a pc players by getting good and getting better aim
@@dosomestuff1949 I’m pretty sure they meant console players can only get in PC lobbies if there is a PC player in their squad, not that you need PC friends to beat PC players
Advanced tech like this just doesn't make a difference unless the other person you're against is as good as you are and you need a quick technique to use to give yourself an advantage.
If itztimmy pulls up on someone that hasn't put the time in to learning the game, or hasn't been playing the game long enough to do so, The tap strafe is the LEAST of this players problem because he's about to take an almost perfectly accurate mag dump from someone that has superior positioning, pathing route and game sense.
That guy is DEAD, and a Tap strafe getting thrown into that mix is disrespectful at worse and unnecessary at best, but completely irrelevant to why that guys about to become a statistic
I don’t know how to tap strafe like what key bind changes would help a lot?
God if I could like this video a thousand times, I remember the first time I ever watched one of your videos it was the one at 0:00 I was new to apex, I was (a console player) and I thought that tap strafing was unfair, and unbalance I just couldn't wait for it to be removed (not knowing it had nothing to do with me) after a while of playing and watching PC players, and seeing more and more movement tech I got a PC I was excited and the first thing i learned to do (besides how to play on a PC XD) was tap strafing it became my favorite thing about apex I did when it was unnecessary, I panicked and didn't do it when it was necessary and died, but with hours and hours of playing I learned basically everything about it found out how to do it how to combine it with other tech, how tap stafe-wall jump, to wall jump-tap stafe how to 180 how to all types of things. Seeing it was being removed was so heartbreaking, I heard that it was to be removed and I just wondered... why, for console integration, because it has a glitch attached to it or something, then to see the tweet I just thought it was bs i spent so much time just for it to be removed. But yea ik I'm basically just ranting and saying things thousands of people have said now, but hopefully tap strafe isn't removed or it is and we get a cooler movement tech with its removal. So there is only one thing I can do now...
*WAIT FASTER*
Hey, now that the patch notes are out, I don't think we have to worry as much! They basically said all they're doing is removing the ability to bind W to your scroll wheel. So then I (not a movement god, just a decent pathfinder) hopped into the firing range, chucked down a bunch of bounce pads and started experimenting. Turns out, you can totally just tap strafe by spamming W. I was unable to get more than like 100 degrees out of it, so no more 180 degree whip around bullshit (which honestly is kinda broken), but you can still easily do 90's just by pressing W like 4-5 times while you turn. I tested this with bounce pads, sliding with octane stim, sliding with no bonus momentum, sliding out of a grapple slingshot, etc. and it's really, really not that hard. Yes, scroll wheel was easier, but this really isn't that tricky. We should be good to go :)
The octane flying in the beginning of your clip is the main counterargument for your whole video in regard to all players who hardwarewise cannot access tapstrafing. Breaking or circumventing a fix or finding a new accidental mistake by the devs is an exploit by definition.
saw someone tweeted "might as well turn this game into a controller based game too if you wanted to reside by them too much" i laughed and feel sad a bit then i moved on
Man I'm a console player and I love seeing tap strafing in action, I taught my nooby pc friend how to do it too, sad to see it go. RIP tap strafe 2021
not sure if someone mentioned this, but John Larson, associate live balance designer, posted a twitlonger about his insights on tap-strafing. this is a small bit of his post,
"The goal is to remove some of the sharpness in momentum conservation around 90°+ angles. That’s what I’m thinking of when I use the term “tap-strafe” throughout this post. Things like wall-bounce redirect back onto that same wall should feel unchanged, but movement afforded by scroll-wheel strafing will be removed."
Something died inside of me after I read Respawn tweet. I think, tapstrafe is a thing that made Apex movement so insanely beautiful and satisfying. Apex will be definitely a lot worse without it if Respawn don't change their minds.
SaveApexStrafe
Got a question, what's gonna happen to my auto exec cfg file? Will it become useless when the update drops on the 14th? Or is it only gonna take a way/nullify the mouse wheel/W bind? For instance I have CL Show Pos command and some lighting/graphics changes in my cfg file not just the scroll wheel/W bind.
Well where ever you plan on going with games whether its apex or not I will still be enjoying your content. I know I shouldn't be this bummed out about it being gone but the fact that I spent hundreds of hours incorporating it into my gameplay, just to see it get removed is one of the most disheartening feelings I've felt in while.
Ill state what I stated on twitter. If respawn launched this game with titanfall movement. I would have no issue with tap strafing. It would make a nice steady progression of movement skills.
Think of it like this:
You are a new player to apex
You start learning advanced movement with sliding
Then wallrunning
Then slide hopping.
Then wall kicking
Then air strafing
Then tap strafing
Then supergliding
Etc.
Each level of movement techniques slowly works the player up in movement skill. Allowing for a steady progression of skill. It also makes the playerbase’s movement skill a spectrum rather than someone who knows movement vs someone who knows nothing.
Rn the game has a clear separation between movement gods and casuals. Making players that doesn’t use these techniques feel helpless when encountering them.
I want apex to have a movement system that draws you in with its approachability and simplicity, has a steady skill progression and then tops it off with some niche techniques that give you just a little bit more of an edge.
Also moke you need to understand that apex as a br game is inherently casual and that something like this was going to happen.
If Lurch is altered or removed completely I think ill be done with apex, dont think i could have fun anymore. Good video Mokey :)
same here
cant agree more with aceu saying apex is sucking out the fun
Okay, if scroll wheel tap-strafe is removed, hows the keyboard tap-strafe? (The one that you input "ASD" or "DSA" )
Here's my take on this.
They should either:
1. Remove tap-strafing and increase the air strafe speed, kinda similar to how CS:GO does it. That way both controller and m&k players can have the same set of movement mechanics.
OR
2. Only remove scroll wheel tap-strafing as that takes almost no skill to perform and is incredibly broken when mastered.
yeah ive seen some clips of some octanes litteraly flying across capitol using tap strafing
do u just un-equip boxing gloves?
Mokey's tone in this video is clearly depressed
This is hands down the worst decision of this game's lifespan lol
it's almost 6 months after i started playing this game without really trying to learn tap strafing, so it's still pretty fun without the movement exploits especially if its not really intended to be there since it can chain with other movement like wall jumping.
@JayBiebs said that their most concern of tap-strafing is the 180° octane jump pad and pathfinder grapple. I admit that those seems insane(but those take high skill to do and high risk to fail). But it is not fair to make low-speed tap-strafing a collateral damage.
I can now think of two solutions: 1. Tap-strafing works only when the player's speed is lower than 700(or 600). 2. If the player's speed is higher than 700(or 600), the player's speed will be set to 700(or 600) after tap-strafing.
I share the same worries. The removel of tap strafing will very likely butcher other movement tech such like momentum shifts since they utilize lurches as well. Momentum shift to skip climbing animation requires a minimum of 3 lurches (I may be wrong, but this is how I do it), meaning they need to at least let you stack 3 lurches if they want to preserve that mechanic. It's also worth noting that momentum shift/tap strafing to skip climb animations is far more common than fancy 180 degree tapstrafe outplays, and used often in tournaments.
Here's the thing. Even with only 3 lurches you can still pull off ~150 degree turns while maintaining most of your momentum(and I believe you can push it further with more precise angles/inputs). The only difference is that you can't face forward, but this is something player skill will easily compensate for.
One of their reasons was that it was inaccessible. But the way I see it, the removal of scrollwheel based tapstrafing makes it MORE inaccessible to the average player. Limiting ourselves to PC, lets say that 1% of the playerbase knew about tapstrafing and had the binds to do it easily. Of that 1%, only 1% knew how to actually use it in an actual fight to give themselves an advantage. This means only 0.01% of the playerbase could effectively use tapstrafing to gain an advantage. However, 0.99% of them were capable of pulling it off, and with some practice can use it in an actual fight. Assuming they keep all other movement mechanics in the game (ie 3 or more lurches in a jump), the 0.01% will learn how to optimize those lurches to get the most out of them, since it directly affects their skill. On the other hand, the 0.99% will likely not bother to learn how to manage their limited lurches, since it gives them no tangible benefit. Effectively, they will be raising the skill floor for such movement, thereby making it LESS accessible.
Having a lot of (balanced) movement options always makes a game more fun. That's why simply running around in Apex is already fun, especially as Pathfinder or Octane. Taking away tap-strafing just makes the players who know about it and practiced it have less fun in the game. And the players who don't know about it or don't care to practice it, don't care if it gets removed either way. Embrace the movement, Respawn, double dip into that and add more accessible fun movement mechanics. It's always better to have more movement options as long as they don't break the game.
I always found aiming and shooting in apex easier than other games coming from cs, quake etc, but going up against a good wraith who knows how to tap strafe was one of the difficult parts of this game and taxed my aiming alot and was genuinely surprised how difficult aiming could be when movement is used to it fullest, but with tap strafing being removed I feel like the game is going to get even more easier in terms of aim lmaoo
were gonna get valorant movement vids now?
I am honestly surprised they even kept it this long. It's first and foremost an engine exploit that's not meant to be in the game or part or the way the game was designed to be played. Being able to do 180 turns so quickly and combines with super gliding is game breaking imo as much as I enjoy the quick turns and movement etc. The game would still be fun as it was fun even before people discovered all these exploits
Truely
thats a genious solution. Add the ability to lurch on controller, and dont let players bind forward movement to W... you're already unable to bind jump to scrollwheel in titanfall, so the developers should already know about this.
Told my apex friends about the loss of my beloved mechanic and none of them cared, and some were actually happy. The only reason they had? Quote: “Cuz I can’t do it and the speedy octanes keep killing me”. Rip tap strafing. You will be missed by those who loved you
Gunz 2: effectively kills itself by limiting and regulating movement and animation cancels, killing off one of the highest skill ceiling games of all time
Respawn: Hold my beer.
Gunz 1 was the bomb. That intentional usage of "glitch-turn-culture". That was one of the earliest movement based games I've sunk my time into.
rly sad to see the way theyre going about this...
Honestly, i'm genuinely pissed that they are gonna remove tapstrafing, the large amount of movement capabilities in this game was the main reason i started playing apex, it's painful to see this happening.
I like a lot of the points in this video and I really appreciate how you approach giving criticism to the devs. Sensational content creators who rage will not be taken seriously, but calm and collected reasoning is much more likely to be heard. Thank you for being a pillar of this community, bringing both positivity and legitimate critiques. One point I think is important to mention however is that the devs making financial decisions shouldn't necessarily be seen as greedy. I know that wasn't said explicitly but was implied. Without making decisions that help the company financially, they wouldn't have the resources to create all the wonderful content we do enjoy in the game. Every season is bigger and more ambitious, and they even spend the time to make tiny changes to the map for easter eggs. None of that would be possible without the money to pay the devs. If they feel that removing this movement mechanic will allow the broader community to thrive, and therefore have enough resources to make the game better in other ways, maybe it's worth it in the end. It is sad to see this unique mechanic go, and it does feel like a misstep in terms of the relationship to pc and higher skill players, but like you said hopefully this will open the door for other mechanics, or just other content in general. Thanks again for all the work that you do, you are a big reason this community is so strong right now.
This is actually the best take so far on this tap strafing issue. Couldn't have said it better, i'll just fucking miss tap strafing so much, game ain't gonna hit the same no more.
Here’s the thing, I can’t tap strafe and I don’t wanna learn. But, I don’t want them to get rid of it, it adds an extra bit of challenge for me as a player and I don’t want it to change because it would make it slightly easier which is boring to me.
Watching any mokeysniper video is a vibe.
If they wanted to nerf tapstrafing then it would be better to nerf 180 degree tap strafes, but removing it entirely is overboard
How about remove getting rid of recoil by shaking your aim?
Another well scripted and put together video from our movement daddy! Thanks for sharing your concerns in a constructive and non biased manner as usual. You always offer perspective and I respect you for that! Here's hoping the backlash is enough for them to reconsider OR they break something and give us new movement tech!
It’s so funny how all the pros were complaining about it until they said then they would remove it
I mean if the game is crossplay and PC can do something thats impossible on consoles i think thats unfair, either give everyone the same opportunity or no opportunity at all. I think its a dope tec but the skill gap is to far apart
I'm glad that Mokey had ideas to help both sides (m&k and console) rather than just getting purely mad that it's getting removed
question... How many movement players are on the ALGS?
everyone who participated in ALGS are movement players . If you don't move then you died lol
I'm a console player. I've been playing since season 1 and this game has been great, I've learned something called a "flick strafe" a few seasons ago and I've been enjoying going against a tap strafing pc player so far. I honestly think this feature is fair. Because not everyone know how to use it (as said in video) but I just want to have fun at the end of the day... So going against a good player that can tap strafe could cure my boredom and possibly bring back my competitiveness. Of course this comment wouldn't change the minds of respawn though
* me who spent a whole season learning this and now can't play apex without this mechanic * : :'(
The thing is, there’s crazy movement tech on console too. I just witnessed climb sliding the other day and it looked insane (it’s also super hard to do consistently).
Apex just has a very free flowing movement system where people will always find ways to maximize speed. That’s what makes the game fun outside of the shooting.
you're the only person in the internet rn who gave actual reasoning about why not to remove tap strafing...
we all knew it was coming, they should let horizon be able to tap stafe, it fits well into her current abilitys
Of courses this happens right when I’m about to finish my PC build . I really love the movement in this game and I really don’t want to see it removed.
If you guys want to experience tapstrafing after it's removed you can try a game called Krunker. It's a very simple game but it has a similar mechanic to tap strafing. It also has shotgun jumping and wall bouncing so yeah. Very movement based.
it was never meant to be in the game, and they discussed this for a while
3:11 “after much consideration we’ve decided to remove sliding”
« If not i can finally put interact on my mousewheel because that has so much counterplay » That was golden😂
Idk if you read JayBiebs' little rant on why tap strafe is being removed, but in there he says wallbouncing and redirecting onto the wall should remain, so I'm assuming redirects won't be affected (if Respawn don't mess it up accidentally). He also says the fix will be tweakable on-the-fly to restrict or allow tap-strafing, without client updates, which means it will be server-sided game variable they can mess with. I'm guessing it will be a cap on how many movement inputs can be registered after a jump, so they can allow 2/3 inputs for redirects, but no more, so you can't tap-strafe.
I love you so much mokey, very impressed you weren't as livid as I am at the prospect of these changes, and share some optimism. This really left a bad taste in my mouth I haven't really felt regarding this game since... idk heal bhop changes. Thanks for being a light in the community ❤️