Objectives are weak on purpose because it follows the Dota philosophy rather than the League philosophy. In League, the tower protects you. In Dota, you protect the tower. The towers in Dota are crucial to be protected because they extend your map control by giving you the ability to teleport to them. In Deadlock, this philosophy is flipped as destroying the enemy's towers extends your zipline further into the enemy's territory while also unlocking your flex slots (with the enemy tier 3 objectives making your zipline faster if you destroy them). The tier 3 towers definitely need to be something other than two tier 1 towers, though.
In Dota we used to have a jungler sometimes, but fortunately the same genius behind Deadlock (Icefrog) got rid of it. Now we have standard 2-1-2 hereos on lanes, and very rarely a jungler. All he did was to provide more gold for creeps(minions) and heroes. And jungle neutrals give less gold and experience. Please DO NOT encourage Jungler role... PLEASE. It is so detrimental for the match and your teammates. It is OK to have a jungle and you can ocassionally farm it when you are behind, when whey already pwned you on lane... but thinking of having a specific role for it... no way.
@@Jeff_189the problem is if you have dedicated jungler, every map control you'll have is centered around the jungler, if the jungler wont fight for map control you have nothing to do or fight an unwinnable 4v5 at the enemy side or enemy jungle which is bad very very bad, so if you have nothing to do you'll have just to farm, BUT you cant farm coz theres a dedicated jungler if you farm his camps your griefing you own jungler and he will fall behind
Wow, I didn't know DOTA did away with dedicated junglers. That's great because I HATE the idea behind the role. In League, the jungler is designed specifically for the purpose of giving one or two players a miserable experience for an entire match. It's the most anti-fun game design I've ever experienced.
Icefrog is just the fucking goat. Dota is a masterpiece, it is an absolute piece of art, with complexity that runs so deep it is on par or exceeds real games in real life. It is completely unreasonable to expect someone to do that twice. But here we are. I’d like to shake his hand.
On the surface it seems like you are saying why deadlock is better than other MOBA's but really you are explaining why DOTA2 is better than league. All the things you praise about deadlock you find in spades in DOTA2. Aside from that great video very informative for League players. In icefrog we trust ♥️❄️🐸
It’s hard for me to know cause honestly I never attempted Dota 2, maybe it’s a sign I would have preferred it all these years (Although I think the movement and shooting are the core of my Deadlock love)
Yea league is definitely more relatable from the twitchy shooty perspective of the game but the strategy and depth of hidden mechanics is definitely all dota
Deadlock is great because Ice Frog has been working on dota since the warcraft 3 days. He went to work on dota 2 now he works on deadlock. He simply follows the fun when developing games...
I fucking HATE pretty much everything about MOBAs from the gatekeeping toxicity to the sweaty grind needed to even start playing ranked, but I actually absolutely fuck with Deadlock. My only fear is how the public release will shift things, but they could very well improve things with more players.
Yeah, I really enjoy that there is no ranking in deadlock currently, makes it feel way more casual. I know ranking is coming and I live in fear of what it will do to this (already surprisingly toxic for an alpha) community
@@LucyTheBox rank will be 2 years from now that's a long time since this approach of valve to this game was similar to DOTA 2 it took 3 years or almost 3 before they launched DOTA 2 during early and new decade of ('2010s) I remember this vividly when I entered my Highschool years last decade and just started playing DOTA in late 2009. DOTA 2 pre launch was also an invitation only access game just like this one
@@Soft_Ghost Assuming ranked will be a separate option from casual (which isn't the case in every game), if ranked ends up being a breeding ground for toxicity, that mentality is likely to bleed over into the rest of the game.
This game was made by Icefrog, the lead dev of Dota 2, an incredibly well made game. The reason deadlock is good is the same reason Dota is good. Even the browsable build suggestion feature is borrowed from Dota
The game we thought was dead before arrival and is now valves' new crowning achievement. Pulling fans from both Shooter and MOBA genre and making something new entirely
A bit poorly researched video but can't blame you because of your League background. But yes, Icefrog (same guy who was lead dev for Dota 2 for the majority of its lifespan) has been working on Deadlock for 6 years now. Most of its features, concepts and ideas are just basically copy-pasted from Dota 2 and more will come (for example the rumored behavior system from Dota 2) and for good reasons, he knows what he is doing.
I did try my best to research if some of these things existed in Dota 2 but I couldn't find solid info on a lot of it. Either way just think of it as a more casual moba player's take on the game
I've got really poor internet so downloading a game like that can be very time consuming for me (I was aiming to get this video out relatively fast) Not to mention my hard drive was already dominated by a lot of Deadlock footage, noted however
@@KingOfKazoosI just want to say for the future that the aforementioned "behaviour system" probably also will work more like in Dota. You see, in Valve games you can argue, shittalk, spit nonsense and slur people and you won't get automatically banned... Unless you get reported because you actually offended someone. But if you're just want to have fun, all the N-words can go straight into the all chat
A point about the "Hero inflation". I don't think that it ever be a problem. Dota currently has 125 heroes and none of them are obsolete. Icefrog releases 1-2 heroes per year and they are pretty well balanced, unique and fit well into the game. Icefrog is goat man
@@KingOfKazoos iirc, there always was one pre-made guide from Valve (which was always insanely dated) and you could get additional ones from Workshop, but since, like, 2018 you could add them through the game client itself. Havent played the game for two years, though, so my memory could be betraying me
@@KingOfKazoos well, my comment apparently got deleted, but yes, people above are correct. Way, way back, if I recall correctly, guides were used" via Workshop, however since 2019-ish (same patch, when DotA + became a thing) its fully integrated into the game. Courtesy of Volvo. All in all, its a nitpick. I, as a long-time DotA player, was just a bit surprised that you was surprised, because for me its feels like something obvious. Its not a critique of the video. I liked it very much. Its just shows that LoL players are traumatised by Rita. What I mean by that is this. I tried to get into League some time ago (played like 20-30 games, which is, admittedly, not too much) and what confused me the most was UI. No proper tutorial, aside from really basic one. No proper guides. No tips, no item library, nothing. I couldn't look into enemies' inventory for longer than a couple of seconds and for whatever reason locked on camera was on by default. All of which is not really a problem in general, but could be changed for better experience for newer players. (Also, the whole "menu is a different window from the game" is still weird to me. Like, WTF?)
Dropping an absolute banger with zero official announcements, just Valve doing Valve things. I'd wager Riot is already otw to making their own 6v6 hero shooter and advertising the shit out of it.
14:20 no no no no plz God no. Kills being worth as little as they are is a big reason why it's possible to come back in this game. In league a death represents giving over 2 minion waves plus a kill, and dying is equal to a minion wave. Being behind by 3 minion waves as punishment for death is entirely too punishing. Also towers being weak keeps games from dragging out forever like they do in league. Tho I don't hate the idea of a jungle roll. But personally I like that the Game instead gets everyone to participate in the jungle. Unlike league where the jungle is a big scary blank spot in your knowledge until you decide to learn the dedicated jungle roll, in deadlock everyone is incentivezed to farm jungle camps. Which by extension means people are checking the map more. Which means people are more informed about the state of the game and opportunities to play together. I really really like the way the current jungle is balanced, the only thing I'd maybe change is adding in more ways to get the buff effects. Maybe make the strong jungle camps into a red/blue buff equivalent to give more optional objectives on the map and also a secondary objective to control durring laning phase for lanes which have the big camps adjacent to them.
7:50 recently in a game 2 of my teammates ragequit after they got killed many times, but even being 6v4 my team starts to push and push, we start to take advantage and when we reach the enemy base one of them disconnected, then we were 5v4, and after pushing and improving our items we make our last push and on the last moment another of the enemies disconnected and we kill their patron
I do want to point out that, if you don't like the lane you start in, you can just quickly ask a teammate to switch with you. Most people have no problem doing this at the start of a match.
12:01 - same guy who balances Dota, where top picked heroes on the TI usually has a nice mix of old and new characters. Also, if you don't sell characters, you don't need to pump out dozens of them for profit, but you can improve existing ones (like they did in Dota recently).
I think that the thing about structures that you mentioned is not quite true, at least from my experience. While i agree that structures feel not as powerful as other MOBA's, with less of them it rewards high level of mobility play and moving around the map, which is quite encouraged. You have more room to try and outplay someone rather than just (in League's case) flash under tower and have a free kill. Also, ganking from my perspective is actively encouraged, and very rewarding, specially in the end of the laning phase. I have had multiple situations where i got killed twice, or thrice and ganked a lane, killing two people and coming back to lane safely and with not much damage to my tower. I don't know if it's just my experience or simply situation, but this is my opinion. Also, great video! I really liked the editing and you point out great points. Good job and much success!
Alternative video title: League player praises Dota without knowing it. Pretty much all you said as a pro is something that is from Dota and, interestingly enough, all the cons are absent in Dota (apart from not having a jungler). Deadlock is a cool game, but it's not for me as I'm not super found of shooter games. That said, I'm following its development and trying it every once in a while just because I trust Valve can make a banger moba, even I'm not super found of how they deal with communication.
Okay? Who's against Dota anyways. I've always preferred leagues and always considered Dota the hard mode of mobas. Without Dota 1 from warcraft 3, LoL would've never existed. Maybe who knows 🤔
@@HappyHardcore86 Honestly, Dota isn't really that hard, The community likes to create this image of a super hard game impossible to learn, but it's all an elitist superiority complex. Learning the game can take some time and it does have a lot of systems, but unless you want to be top 1%, you don't need to understand everything to play Dota.
@@semideiapranickYou can argue that the skill floor to actually enjoy Dota is pretty high though, but once it clicks, you become addicted even if you lose a lot
I don't like the idea of a jungle role in this game. They would have to fundamentally change everything about the neutral creeps for a jungle role to work.
Agree with most things except Jungle. I've read some comments down there so I won't make the same arguement here, hopefully. The Jungle in Dota/Deadlock serve more as an "extra resource" that the team has to manage. It mean that in hindsight, whoever can farm jungle more effictive can get more souls to win the game. Not only that, in higher level play, it can even become a strategy decision to when or who to farm jungle and who to defend the tower, or when to invade and steal the jungle from enemy team, and even form a new "lane" in jungle area as heroes are trying to fight over the jungle, or to help to gank for their team. This wasn't in Deadlock yet, but it is always a big part in DotA. And since it work this way in DotA/Deadlock, it make no sense to have a jungler role in DotA. Everyone is free to participate in jungling in DotA/Deadlock and having a dedicated role will limit how players engage the game (looking at you LoL).Plus DotA does not have any item/summoner skill to profit more from jungle, hence after around 15 mins point, jungler will always go out and gank/help the lane constantly, leaving the jungling to supports that need some quick bucks, or mostly to carry/pos1 that need all the souls they can get. With the reason above, jungler doesn't make any sense anymore. Removing jungler role is more just to push heroes into lane and make the game more fun for first half of the game, instead of having an Axe spinning none stop in jungle while his team is shouting for help.
Just to add some background here, I played DotA for around 20 years now, and used to play LoL for few years too before I really fed up with how the game goes (ARAM is still fun as hell). Also tried HotS, SMITE, HoN for a while before I drop them
As a Dota player, there is nothing Genius or revolutionary here because everything about Deadlock has been in Dota for many years now. But I get where you are coming from.
It doesn’t help that the majority of moba players can’t seem to understand that a moba doing something different than lol is ok. Sure maybe the mid boss announcing when it’s being attacked would be dumb in LOL but this isn’t LOL. Games are aloud to be different.
11:58 - uhm, akshually this is called "Power creep"/"Feature creep" (depending on what exactly you are talking about). This is a really common problem for MOBA genre specifically and multiplayer games overall
Never forget, that it is an alpha. The problem is that people love the current state so much, that valve can‘t change too much about the game now, although some features might have been placeholders
considering the emphasis on using your weapon in Deadlock, I'm curious if Valve/Icefrog would be interested in adding variety via giving heroes alternate weapons instead of a completely new hero thats only slightly different play style wise. Like, Haze with a rufle instead of dual SMGs that give her better range but worse raw DPS.
I doubt it, the weapons seem built around the abilities. For example, Haze is built around getting in close, and releasing devastating damage, her knife and smoke bomb allow her to either get close uncontested, or boost chances of escaping if needed. Likewise, her weapon is built for close range combat to match her abilities.
@Luxstar13 predecessor/ paragon would be the best comparison, since those games aren't on a singular plane, you can look, aim and shoot in any direction... horizontally or vertically
It's so weird to be a huge Dota player and fan and yet having the heart to not easily recommend the game to other people. Game is just a huge huge time investment to get into in comparison to other Mobas but boy when you get into it, it's hard to get out.
When someone says that there are no bad characters in deadlock they probably forget about Grey Talon, he deals 0 damage except his ult and also not so tanky compared to others, and Ivy kinda struggles too as i see in games.
He is probably the least creative, mechanic wise. But he does a ton of damage. Don't build gun because his damage falls off hard. Build spirit and buff your 1. His burst is insane
always hated the jungler because if he s not good my team suffers frome : a buffed jungler in the other team, and more buffed enemies due to the good ganking provided by the enemy. also jungle only opens at 7 min + there are characters that need to go jungle like beebop and haze Valve is trying to promote a non role gameplay so that the games can be more fair also im consistently getting ganked when the guardian next to me got killed or if the duo lane pushed their wave The tower damage i weak witch i hate but the hp is low witch is good because now if your team knows what it is doing they can end the game fast if the other suffers from skill issue. Wile if u are losing you can come back if u know what u do or end the suffering early instead of getting beaten like a dead dog. Guardians and walkers are also the key for flex slots so having more hp means the buffed team can further punish players by locking their slots making it harder for them to comeback while aa low hp guardian/walker mean you only need a small window to take it out and keep farming This can be changed but i'm quite happy with the game rn Needs some polish and some more time to be perfect but i can't realy say i played anything better
SMNC was my favorite game for quite some time, and Deadlock is the first game since SMNC died/shut down in 2018 that have scratched the same itch that SMNC did. Never been a fan of the moba genre. But SMNC and Deadlock I enjoy playing, even tho they're technically Moba.
all of your compliments about the mechanics of Deadlock game can already be found in DOTA like the creep denying gameplay mechanic. And others you mentioned LOL! (League player) And No, there will no be a standard jungle role in deadlock, there will be times or heroes that their gimmick that they can go to neutrals to farm outside lane that you can call (Jungle heroes) in dota Natures Prophet can do that but his not entirely locked into a role of Jungler. Plus this is Icefrog another title, he's the lead developer in this game and Dota 2 including the DOTA 1 for years and why MOBA genre became big because of his update in DOTA 1.
@@gamblinoob remember I think 2 or 3 years ago Icefrog updated the towers and buffed them in DOTA cause the heroes in late game was already strong that even a little bit of a Support hero with just 2 or 3 items can already solo 1st and 2nd tower during mid game
Your complaints about objectives and lanes contradict your praises on it being a tug of war. Jungles and weak objectives are good because instead of just bullying a lane the entire game it gives people options to roam and be proactive. A dedicated jungler would remove the “chaos” and keep people in lane and have this boring push up and push back style of gameplay like league.
What is going on in the comments? I thought Dota playersbase is toxic keep it up dud, nice style and also - building do be too easy, in Dota they just added 50% resistance to Hero attacks on towers, kinda worked but now we have 40+min comp games where everybody just farming 4+ items + Assault Cuirass and only after that you have a chance to maybe destroy 1 of 3 lanes
The game design is good but since its far from a traditional mobas people are just so d*mb at the game and never learn, lack on fundamentals of "How to play moba" people endup playing it like another hero shooter, it's rough that is my experience of this game
Blizzard is shaking, all they do is create garbage as of late, and they failed in their own version of a moba. Heros of the storm, that game was so bad. Cool concept with the characters since it was their ip's as heros, but the lack of depth is what made is so boring.
Blizzard is garbo, but I'm swopping in here to defend HotS. I believe it to be the best designed MOBA, at least among the ones I've played. It fixes many of the problems and frustrations that other MOBAs have, especially League. One single shared resource means snowballing only occurs team-wide. No one falls behind and becomes useless the whole match, and no one gets singularly fed and stomps the whole server. Lanes require only one person in each to get full EXP (and there's no dedicated jungler) which means roaming and lane rotation is freeform, with a lot of complexity and depth. Also, the impact of kills starts out small and ramps up increasingly more as the game progresses, which lends to excellent match pacing, especially since matches are typically a snappy 20-25 minutes. The one thing I do not like about HotS is the Talent system. While it's a simple and elegant mechanic, it's also very restrictive compared to traditional items, and it hampers creativity. Any lack of depth that HotS expresses is entirely localized in the Talent system. But the rest of the game is awesome.
@@NoshuHyena idk man, I share your love for HotS and lots of these you said is now implemented into DotA or Deadlock Talent system is in both of these games: your support need more damage output? Go for damage! Your support need more CC? Well they go for extended duration/increase range, or even your carry can go more "support like" talent to help with that! Your carry die too fast here? Then they go for tankier talent instead of damage! And same goes for Deadlock, you need chase power instead of damage? Well level up the chase ability you have instead of damage! (Yamato grapping hook for instance) You feels like you are doing okay and no skill you have to rush? Well don't spend 5 ability point on 1 skill but evenly split them! You feels like you always have chance to deal damage, but your damage output is just too low? Save the ability point and max the hell out on that damage ability! Talent system is great by design and even thou HotS has some problem balancing it, I still find it very fun to mix up the way I play. And not to mention the team-wide souls that's roughly implemented Deadlock (In duo lane, you can have 1 ppl harassing while the other focus on last hitting, or one to push the lane while others focus on deny etc)
what a bottom tier opinion. you basically want longer matches? WHY ? there's no competitive mode , there's constant new players all over the place , why would my games be longer ?
Because I don't want to lose my entire laning phase just for dying once, I don't think objectives should be unstoppable tanks. I'm just saying they are pathetically weak rn and hold no precense
Moba games came out before hero shooters, Lmfao 🤣. The first game that coined the term ‘hero shooter’ was Team Fortress, released in 1996, while Dota was released in 2003. Noob.
Team fortress 1 hardly constitutes as a hero shooter lol
3 месяца назад
@@KingOfKazoos Oh really? Team Fortress is always called a class-based game, but it still laid the groundwork for games like Overwatch and that trashy term ‘Hero shooter’ to be born. Where do you think the idea for ‘Hero shooter’ games such as Overwatch or Paladin are came from? In terms of framework, they are all the same thing.
This is just a matter of opinion, but either way my comment was about the hero shooter 'CRAZE.' The hero shooter craze we're going through now was after Overwatch, TF1 or TF2 had little to do with it even if TF2 is better than OW
If you've tried it and think that still then fair enough, but honestly considering the amount of moba haters who like it I'd say it's worth a shot if you get an invite
dude that move 10:37! that's insane! the skill level will be immense! this game is fun! and has a learning curve and will be heavily dependent on team play lol but we all know how that goes llol
It is more like when enemy reach a certain power level, it is pointless to continue the game as they can easily win every team fight all the time, unless they made some really huge mistake. This make the game really bored to continue as you know the result of the game and you can do nothing about it (no matter which team you are on). DotA has less of this problem as heroes there has this "power spike" in certain level, it is like if you can survive through the winter, it became your time to shine and vice versa. For instance, Medusa is kind of a super late game hero, so if you can survive 40 mins of game of having 1 hero constantly farming, you could win the late game with Medusa just bulldoze everything in her path. And this is just an example in lower level game, it became another story in tournament. While Deadlock did it even better, by carefully managing your hero and not dying, controlling the map while you can and take all the resource (urn and jungle creeps), you can eventually catch up and force the enemy team to make risky play if they want to stop you, which really shake things up as being the stronger team doesn't give you a safe pass anymore, you might still lose if you play incorrectly, and you should try to maximize your advantage before the enemy can catch up.
Objectives are weak on purpose because it follows the Dota philosophy rather than the League philosophy. In League, the tower protects you. In Dota, you protect the tower. The towers in Dota are crucial to be protected because they extend your map control by giving you the ability to teleport to them. In Deadlock, this philosophy is flipped as destroying the enemy's towers extends your zipline further into the enemy's territory while also unlocking your flex slots (with the enemy tier 3 objectives making your zipline faster if you destroy them). The tier 3 towers definitely need to be something other than two tier 1 towers, though.
That makes more sense for the design honestly
Deadlock works well because it has Dota 2 mechanics instead of league.
It works because Ice Frog is in the design team
I mean Dota is a far worse game than League so it only makes sense they improve upon the bad parts
oh yes definitely that’s why league is more successful than dota both in casual and pr play! very good observation sir
@@vastolorde9586League is easier to get into. DOTA is more meaningful to play but harder to get into. Hope this helps.
@@vastolorde9586yeah people eat fast food everyday but that doesn't mean it's better food, is it?
In Dota we used to have a jungler sometimes, but fortunately the same genius behind Deadlock (Icefrog) got rid of it. Now we have standard 2-1-2 hereos on lanes, and very rarely a jungler. All he did was to provide more gold for creeps(minions) and heroes. And jungle neutrals give less gold and experience. Please DO NOT encourage Jungler role... PLEASE. It is so detrimental for the match and your teammates. It is OK to have a jungle and you can ocassionally farm it when you are behind, when whey already pwned you on lane... but thinking of having a specific role for it... no way.
Well this is why I said I'm not saying it should have a jungle role, they know better than me after all
Oh shoot why is that? I am just starting to get into league so all of this information is crazy
@@Jeff_189the problem is if you have dedicated jungler, every map control you'll have is centered around the jungler, if the jungler wont fight for map control you have nothing to do or fight an unwinnable 4v5 at the enemy side or enemy jungle which is bad very very bad, so if you have nothing to do you'll have just to farm, BUT you cant farm coz theres a dedicated jungler if you farm his camps your griefing you own jungler and he will fall behind
Oh wow, Icefrog is developing Deadlock? That's really promising - dude has such an immense amount of experience by now.
Wow, I didn't know DOTA did away with dedicated junglers. That's great because I HATE the idea behind the role. In League, the jungler is designed specifically for the purpose of giving one or two players a miserable experience for an entire match. It's the most anti-fun game design I've ever experienced.
It's funny to see so many LoL players talk about the same points with deadlock, while they are just designs from DOTA.
Yeah, this is the third video I see a LoL player praising mechanics/features that exist in Dota for its lifetime but without knowing
Icefrog is just the fucking goat. Dota is a masterpiece, it is an absolute piece of art, with complexity that runs so deep it is on par or exceeds real games in real life. It is completely unreasonable to expect someone to do that twice. But here we are. I’d like to shake his hand.
On the surface it seems like you are saying why deadlock is better than other MOBA's but really you are explaining why DOTA2 is better than league. All the things you praise about deadlock you find in spades in DOTA2. Aside from that great video very informative for League players.
In icefrog we trust ♥️❄️🐸
It’s hard for me to know cause honestly I never attempted Dota 2, maybe it’s a sign I would have preferred it all these years (Although I think the movement and shooting are the core of my Deadlock love)
Yea league is definitely more relatable from the twitchy shooty perspective of the game but the strategy and depth of hidden mechanics is definitely all dota
Deadlock is great because Ice Frog has been working on dota since the warcraft 3 days. He went to work on dota 2 now he works on deadlock.
He simply follows the fun when developing games...
It's the opposite, they fixed what was bad in dota and added it to dead lock. Also damage reduction with distance is well tested and working in tf2.
I fucking HATE pretty much everything about MOBAs from the gatekeeping toxicity to the sweaty grind needed to even start playing ranked, but I actually absolutely fuck with Deadlock. My only fear is how the public release will shift things, but they could very well improve things with more players.
Yeah, I really enjoy that there is no ranking in deadlock currently, makes it feel way more casual. I know ranking is coming and I live in fear of what it will do to this (already surprisingly toxic for an alpha) community
@@LucyTheBoxwe already have clickbait youtubers calling themselves the "top 0.000000001% high MMR rank 1" and the game isn't even out yet lmao
@@LucyTheBox Well, you can just... not play ranked. I'm not sure what's the problem.
@@LucyTheBox rank will be 2 years from now that's a long time since this approach of valve to this game was similar to DOTA 2 it took 3 years or almost 3 before they launched DOTA 2 during early and new decade of ('2010s) I remember this vividly when I entered my Highschool years last decade and just started playing DOTA in late 2009. DOTA 2 pre launch was also an invitation only access game just like this one
@@Soft_Ghost Assuming ranked will be a separate option from casual (which isn't the case in every game), if ranked ends up being a breeding ground for toxicity, that mentality is likely to bleed over into the rest of the game.
This game was made by Icefrog, the lead dev of Dota 2, an incredibly well made game. The reason deadlock is good is the same reason Dota is good. Even the browsable build suggestion feature is borrowed from Dota
The game we thought was dead before arrival and is now valves' new crowning achievement. Pulling fans from both Shooter and MOBA genre and making something new entirely
In Icefrog we trust.
great video, I dig your editing style and OC, subbed
the genius of deadlock is that it's made by valve
Ice frog is on the design team so yeah...
A bit poorly researched video but can't blame you because of your League background. But yes, Icefrog (same guy who was lead dev for Dota 2 for the majority of its lifespan) has been working on Deadlock for 6 years now. Most of its features, concepts and ideas are just basically copy-pasted from Dota 2 and more will come (for example the rumored behavior system from Dota 2) and for good reasons, he knows what he is doing.
I did try my best to research if some of these things existed in Dota 2 but I couldn't find solid info on a lot of it. Either way just think of it as a more casual moba player's take on the game
@@KingOfKazoos sure, it was okay. I mean you could literally open up dota 2, its free. Look at it yourself. No need for research.
I've got really poor internet so downloading a game like that can be very time consuming for me (I was aiming to get this video out relatively fast) Not to mention my hard drive was already dominated by a lot of Deadlock footage, noted however
@@KingOfKazoosI just want to say for the future that the aforementioned "behaviour system" probably also will work more like in Dota. You see, in Valve games you can argue, shittalk, spit nonsense and slur people and you won't get automatically banned... Unless you get reported because you actually offended someone. But if you're just want to have fun, all the N-words can go straight into the all chat
Well put, I think it's quite fun and also see myself playing long into the future.
as a smite player fuck smite, we on dead lock now
Weak towers and objectives are good. You are supposed to protect them, not the other way around.
A point about the "Hero inflation". I don't think that it ever be a problem. Dota currently has 125 heroes and none of them are obsolete. Icefrog releases 1-2 heroes per year and they are pretty well balanced, unique and fit well into the game. Icefrog is goat man
The more comments I've gotten the more I've accepted that Icefrog may just be the goat
8:20 - "This is maybe the best feature added in a MOBA!"
*laughs in DOTA 2, who had the exact same feature for the past millenium*
See I did try to find out if it did but I swear you had to sub to builds on the workshop which is not the same imo
@@KingOfKazoos iirc, there always was one pre-made guide from Valve (which was always insanely dated) and you could get additional ones from Workshop, but since, like, 2018 you could add them through the game client itself. Havent played the game for two years, though, so my memory could be betraying me
Sub on the workshop? What..?? You can choose build when you in game too
@@KingOfKazoos my brother in Christ what are you on about?
@@KingOfKazoos well, my comment apparently got deleted, but yes, people above are correct. Way, way back, if I recall correctly, guides were used" via Workshop, however since 2019-ish (same patch, when DotA + became a thing) its fully integrated into the game. Courtesy of Volvo.
All in all, its a nitpick. I, as a long-time DotA player, was just a bit surprised that you was surprised, because for me its feels like something obvious. Its not a critique of the video. I liked it very much. Its just shows that LoL players are traumatised by Rita.
What I mean by that is this. I tried to get into League some time ago (played like 20-30 games, which is, admittedly, not too much) and what confused me the most was UI. No proper tutorial, aside from really basic one. No proper guides. No tips, no item library, nothing. I couldn't look into enemies' inventory for longer than a couple of seconds and for whatever reason locked on camera was on by default. All of which is not really a problem in general, but could be changed for better experience for newer players.
(Also, the whole "menu is a different window from the game" is still weird to me. Like, WTF?)
Dropping an absolute banger with zero official announcements, just Valve doing Valve things. I'd wager Riot is already otw to making their own 6v6 hero shooter and advertising the shit out of it.
14:20 no no no no plz God no. Kills being worth as little as they are is a big reason why it's possible to come back in this game. In league a death represents giving over 2 minion waves plus a kill, and dying is equal to a minion wave. Being behind by 3 minion waves as punishment for death is entirely too punishing. Also towers being weak keeps games from dragging out forever like they do in league.
Tho I don't hate the idea of a jungle roll. But personally I like that the Game instead gets everyone to participate in the jungle. Unlike league where the jungle is a big scary blank spot in your knowledge until you decide to learn the dedicated jungle roll, in deadlock everyone is incentivezed to farm jungle camps. Which by extension means people are checking the map more. Which means people are more informed about the state of the game and opportunities to play together.
I really really like the way the current jungle is balanced, the only thing I'd maybe change is adding in more ways to get the buff effects. Maybe make the strong jungle camps into a red/blue buff equivalent to give more optional objectives on the map and also a secondary objective to control durring laning phase for lanes which have the big camps adjacent to them.
So the "City of Deadlock" is actually New York, occultified 1920s alt history kind.
7:50 recently in a game 2 of my teammates ragequit after they got killed many times, but even being 6v4 my team starts to push and push, we start to take advantage and when we reach the enemy base one of them disconnected, then we were 5v4, and after pushing and improving our items we make our last push and on the last moment another of the enemies disconnected and we kill their patron
I do want to point out that, if you don't like the lane you start in, you can just quickly ask a teammate to switch with you. Most people have no problem doing this at the start of a match.
Yeah that's always an option for sure but a more defined selection mechanic would be a nice addition imo
@@KingOfKazoos Yeah, definitely would be!
12:01 - same guy who balances Dota, where top picked heroes on the TI usually has a nice mix of old and new characters. Also, if you don't sell characters, you don't need to pump out dozens of them for profit, but you can improve existing ones (like they did in Dota recently).
I think that the thing about structures that you mentioned is not quite true, at least from my experience. While i agree that structures feel not as powerful as other MOBA's, with less of them it rewards high level of mobility play and moving around the map, which is quite encouraged. You have more room to try and outplay someone rather than just (in League's case) flash under tower and have a free kill. Also, ganking from my perspective is actively encouraged, and very rewarding, specially in the end of the laning phase. I have had multiple situations where i got killed twice, or thrice and ganked a lane, killing two people and coming back to lane safely and with not much damage to my tower. I don't know if it's just my experience or simply situation, but this is my opinion. Also, great video! I really liked the editing and you point out great points. Good job and much success!
Alternative video title: League player praises Dota without knowing it. Pretty much all you said as a pro is something that is from Dota and, interestingly enough, all the cons are absent in Dota (apart from not having a jungler).
Deadlock is a cool game, but it's not for me as I'm not super found of shooter games. That said, I'm following its development and trying it every once in a while just because I trust Valve can make a banger moba, even I'm not super found of how they deal with communication.
Okay? Who's against Dota anyways. I've always preferred leagues and always considered Dota the hard mode of mobas. Without Dota 1 from warcraft 3, LoL would've never existed. Maybe who knows 🤔
@@HappyHardcore86 Honestly, Dota isn't really that hard, The community likes to create this image of a super hard game impossible to learn, but it's all an elitist superiority complex. Learning the game can take some time and it does have a lot of systems, but unless you want to be top 1%, you don't need to understand everything to play Dota.
@@semideiapranickYou can argue that the skill floor to actually enjoy Dota is pretty high though, but once it clicks, you become addicted even if you lose a lot
I’m not a moba fan but deadlock has had me addicted for over 2 months now
the zipline is amazing, I don't really need to walk from lane to lane
There is also other objectives like mid boss etc, and they are crucial. At at least in high level play ganks are common
Predecessor has already done this. Hate to see it getting so overlooked
great production value
I don't like the idea of a jungle role in this game. They would have to fundamentally change everything about the neutral creeps for a jungle role to work.
Yeah after playing more + reading many comments I take this one back, maybe worth experimenting with but tbh i dont think it needs it now
Good thing carrying the urn now grants and additional buffs to the party, more reason to move from the lan
15:35 that was clean
Agree with most things except Jungle. I've read some comments down there so I won't make the same arguement here, hopefully.
The Jungle in Dota/Deadlock serve more as an "extra resource" that the team has to manage. It mean that in hindsight, whoever can farm jungle more effictive can get more souls to win the game. Not only that, in higher level play, it can even become a strategy decision to when or who to farm jungle and who to defend the tower, or when to invade and steal the jungle from enemy team, and even form a new "lane" in jungle area as heroes are trying to fight over the jungle, or to help to gank for their team. This wasn't in Deadlock yet, but it is always a big part in DotA.
And since it work this way in DotA/Deadlock, it make no sense to have a jungler role in DotA. Everyone is free to participate in jungling in DotA/Deadlock and having a dedicated role will limit how players engage the game (looking at you LoL).Plus DotA does not have any item/summoner skill to profit more from jungle, hence after around 15 mins point, jungler will always go out and gank/help the lane constantly, leaving the jungling to supports that need some quick bucks, or mostly to carry/pos1 that need all the souls they can get.
With the reason above, jungler doesn't make any sense anymore. Removing jungler role is more just to push heroes into lane and make the game more fun for first half of the game, instead of having an Axe spinning none stop in jungle while his team is shouting for help.
Just to add some background here, I played DotA for around 20 years now, and used to play LoL for few years too before I really fed up with how the game goes (ARAM is still fun as hell). Also tried HotS, SMITE, HoN for a while before I drop them
As a Dota player, there is nothing Genius or revolutionary here because everything about Deadlock has been in Dota for many years now. But I get where you are coming from.
It doesn’t help that the majority of moba players can’t seem to understand that a moba doing something different than lol is ok. Sure maybe the mid boss announcing when it’s being attacked would be dumb in LOL but this isn’t LOL. Games are aloud to be different.
Being in lanes as a "support" hero doesn't matter. Every hero can be a dps power house. Doesn't really matter what lane you're in by 7 mins anyway
11:58 - uhm, akshually this is called "Power creep"/"Feature creep" (depending on what exactly you are talking about). This is a really common problem for MOBA genre specifically and multiplayer games overall
BROWSING builds
okay i am going to take notes on when i work on my own game
hope the server can handle it thaw .
"Without a jungler, the ganking falls to regular laners. I feel like ganking is heavily discouraged"
Someone is not using the teleporters :P
how are you rigging this btw id like to learn if at all possible
i hope the game stays in beta for a relatively long time. Launching a broken/unplanned game would be devastating
Anyone remember the og battle born? Back on the Xbox one
Cant Believe Smite was mentioned, lets goooo
Never forget, that it is an alpha. The problem is that people love the current state so much, that valve can‘t change too much about the game now, although some features might have been placeholders
considering the emphasis on using your weapon in Deadlock, I'm curious if Valve/Icefrog would be interested in adding variety via giving heroes alternate weapons instead of a completely new hero thats only slightly different play style wise. Like, Haze with a rufle instead of dual SMGs that give her better range but worse raw DPS.
I doubt it, the weapons seem built around the abilities.
For example, Haze is built around getting in close, and releasing devastating damage, her knife and smoke bomb allow her to either get close uncontested, or boost chances of escaping if needed.
Likewise, her weapon is built for close range combat to match her abilities.
@@jampine8268 could be different close range weapons, shotguns, dual revolvers.
Slightly bothers me that he keeps mentioning league and barely dota but I get it he never tried dota nor I encourage him to, great video nonetheless!
Yeah it’s just my only point of reference for moba’s really
@@KingOfKazoos honestly, the best comparison for this is smite. It is like shooter like ow. And moba.
@Luxstar13 predecessor/ paragon would be the best comparison, since those games aren't on a singular plane, you can look, aim and shoot in any direction... horizontally or vertically
@@Luxstar13nah the game has so much in common with dota 2 after all its the Same guy behind the scenes doing dota2 and deadlock
It's so weird to be a huge Dota player and fan and yet having the heart to not easily recommend the game to other people. Game is just a huge huge time investment to get into in comparison to other Mobas but boy when you get into it, it's hard to get out.
well im sold.
whaaait, there a parry?
How do i get my hand on that game?
Someone who has access to the game needs to invite you
put it on your wishlist and they will grant you access eventually
For the Algorithm
When someone says that there are no bad characters in deadlock they probably forget about Grey Talon, he deals 0 damage except his ult and also not so tanky compared to others, and Ivy kinda struggles too as i see in games.
Grey Talon may be an exception because he is just a worse Vindicta imo, Ivy can easily be good though
skill issue really
Skill issue
Grey Talon is insane.
He is probably the least creative, mechanic wise. But he does a ton of damage. Don't build gun because his damage falls off hard. Build spirit and buff your 1. His burst is insane
always hated the jungler because if he s not good my team suffers frome : a buffed jungler in the other team, and more buffed enemies due to the good ganking provided by the enemy.
also jungle only opens at 7 min + there are characters that need to go jungle like beebop and haze
Valve is trying to promote a non role gameplay so that the games can be more fair also im consistently getting ganked when the guardian next to me got killed or if the duo lane pushed their wave
The tower damage i weak witch i hate but the hp is low witch is good because now if your team knows what it is doing they can end the game fast if the other suffers from skill issue. Wile if u are losing you can come back if u know what u do or end the suffering early instead of getting beaten like a dead dog.
Guardians and walkers are also the key for flex slots so having more hp means the buffed team can further punish players by locking their slots making it harder for them to comeback while aa low hp guardian/walker mean you only need a small window to take it out and keep farming
This can be changed but i'm quite happy with the game rn
Needs some polish and some more time to be perfect but i can't realy say i played anything better
SMNC was my favorite game for quite some time, and Deadlock is the first game since SMNC died/shut down in 2018 that have scratched the same itch that SMNC did. Never been a fan of the moba genre. But SMNC and Deadlock I enjoy playing, even tho they're technically Moba.
Love the FTL music
Not the ancient God "Ironmouse" 😭
nice inputs for deadlock. highly suggest you try dota. you will have your mind blown.
all of your compliments about the mechanics of Deadlock game can already be found in DOTA like the creep denying gameplay mechanic. And others you mentioned LOL! (League player)
And No, there will no be a standard jungle role in deadlock, there will be times or heroes that their gimmick that they can go to neutrals to farm outside lane that you can call (Jungle heroes) in dota Natures Prophet can do that but his not entirely locked into a role of Jungler. Plus this is Icefrog another title, he's the lead developer in this game and Dota 2 including the DOTA 1 for years and why MOBA genre became big because of his update in DOTA 1.
Bro stop shaking when shooting ppl 😂
Deadlock should add more HP and Armor to the towers and a "Fortify" buttom like in Dota, that you can use only once with a Cooldown of 5 minutes.
They should at least be immune to debuffs people are removing 50% bullet resist from turrets lmao
Nah i think that would just drag the game im already happy with it being about 30mins per game
idk even this way games last for soooo long already
@@gamblinoob remember I think 2 or 3 years ago Icefrog updated the towers and buffed them in DOTA cause the heroes in late game was already strong that even a little bit of a Support hero with just 2 or 3 items can already solo 1st and 2nd tower during mid game
@@MrRafagigapr you can also headshot the t1 and t3 turrets
Riot and Blizzard are probably already working on their own Deadlock copycats because they can't make anything original
the game is not in open alpha
I LOVE DEADLOCK!!!11!
We are deadlocking so hard rn....
Your complaints about objectives and lanes contradict your praises on it being a tug of war. Jungles and weak objectives are good because instead of just bullying a lane the entire game it gives people options to roam and be proactive. A dedicated jungler would remove the “chaos” and keep people in lane and have this boring push up and push back style of gameplay like league.
What is going on in the comments? I thought Dota playersbase is toxic
keep it up dud, nice style and also - building do be too easy, in Dota they just added 50% resistance to Hero attacks on towers, kinda worked but now we have 40+min comp games where everybody just farming 4+ items + Assault Cuirass and only after that you have a chance to maybe destroy 1 of 3 lanes
Thank you!
Комьюнити доты - гении
dota had builds since forever
you should compile a video for Deadlock haters
Item builds were taken from Dota2
Most heros pull skills from Dota2
Denying is taken from Dota2
LoL is trash game
The game design is good but since its far from a traditional mobas people are just so d*mb at the game and never learn, lack on fundamentals of "How to play moba" people endup playing it like another hero shooter, it's rough that is my experience of this game
It’s still new, people will learn and stop being bots…. Eventually
Like your avatar
You cant leave reviews, nice clickbait
Look at this guy who doesn’t know the secret review society
Blizzard is shaking, all they do is create garbage as of late, and they failed in their own version of a moba. Heros of the storm, that game was so bad. Cool concept with the characters since it was their ip's as heros, but the lack of depth is what made is so boring.
Blizzard is garbo, but I'm swopping in here to defend HotS. I believe it to be the best designed MOBA, at least among the ones I've played. It fixes many of the problems and frustrations that other MOBAs have, especially League. One single shared resource means snowballing only occurs team-wide. No one falls behind and becomes useless the whole match, and no one gets singularly fed and stomps the whole server. Lanes require only one person in each to get full EXP (and there's no dedicated jungler) which means roaming and lane rotation is freeform, with a lot of complexity and depth. Also, the impact of kills starts out small and ramps up increasingly more as the game progresses, which lends to excellent match pacing, especially since matches are typically a snappy 20-25 minutes.
The one thing I do not like about HotS is the Talent system. While it's a simple and elegant mechanic, it's also very restrictive compared to traditional items, and it hampers creativity. Any lack of depth that HotS expresses is entirely localized in the Talent system. But the rest of the game is awesome.
HOTS is the casualest MOBA you can get into
@@NoshuHyena
idk man, I share your love for HotS and lots of these you said is now implemented into DotA or Deadlock
Talent system is in both of these games:
your support need more damage output? Go for damage!
Your support need more CC? Well they go for extended duration/increase range, or even your carry can go more "support like" talent to help with that!
Your carry die too fast here? Then they go for tankier talent instead of damage!
And same goes for Deadlock, you need chase power instead of damage? Well level up the chase ability you have instead of damage! (Yamato grapping hook for instance)
You feels like you are doing okay and no skill you have to rush? Well don't spend 5 ability point on 1 skill but evenly split them!
You feels like you always have chance to deal damage, but your damage output is just too low? Save the ability point and max the hell out on that damage ability!
Talent system is great by design and even thou HotS has some problem balancing it, I still find it very fun to mix up the way I play. And not to mention the team-wide souls that's roughly implemented Deadlock (In duo lane, you can have 1 ppl harassing while the other focus on last hitting, or one to push the lane while others focus on deny etc)
Brawl Stars finally getting some good recognition.
Abrams player. 100% gay
Bro can’t parry
what a bottom tier opinion. you basically want longer matches? WHY ? there's no competitive mode , there's constant new players all over the place , why would my games be longer ?
Because I don't want to lose my entire laning phase just for dying once, I don't think objectives should be unstoppable tanks. I'm just saying they are pathetically weak rn and hold no precense
❤
Moba games came out before hero shooters, Lmfao 🤣. The first game that coined the term ‘hero shooter’ was Team Fortress, released in 1996, while Dota was released in 2003. Noob.
Team fortress 1 hardly constitutes as a hero shooter lol
@@KingOfKazoos Oh really? Team Fortress is always called a class-based game, but it still laid the groundwork for games like Overwatch and that trashy term ‘Hero shooter’ to be born. Where do you think the idea for ‘Hero shooter’ games such as Overwatch or Paladin are came from? In terms of framework, they are all the same thing.
This is just a matter of opinion, but either way my comment was about the hero shooter 'CRAZE.' The hero shooter craze we're going through now was after Overwatch, TF1 or TF2 had little to do with it even if TF2 is better than OW
Mmm nah dude, just play smite
smite better.
All thanks ti the valve effect and second worlders
Videos in a year (maybe): "The fall of Deadlock"
Honestly I can see it happening somehow lmao
It would be really unlike valve to mess this up. For an alpha its already exceding expectations.
Cool video, to bad it's a moba so it's automatically dogshit.
If you've tried it and think that still then fair enough, but honestly considering the amount of moba haters who like it I'd say it's worth a shot if you get an invite
*too
It sucks
dude that move 10:37! that's insane! the skill level will be immense! this game is fun! and has a learning curve and will be heavily dependent on team play lol but we all know how that goes llol
2:58 yo my new main
8:00 yeah but that's a dumb statement. it's almost as if the game rewards you for being better is a bad thing
More that its a slog to catch up even if you maximise farming
It is more like when enemy reach a certain power level, it is pointless to continue the game as they can easily win every team fight all the time, unless they made some really huge mistake. This make the game really bored to continue as you know the result of the game and you can do nothing about it (no matter which team you are on).
DotA has less of this problem as heroes there has this "power spike" in certain level, it is like if you can survive through the winter, it became your time to shine and vice versa. For instance, Medusa is kind of a super late game hero, so if you can survive 40 mins of game of having 1 hero constantly farming, you could win the late game with Medusa just bulldoze everything in her path. And this is just an example in lower level game, it became another story in tournament.
While Deadlock did it even better, by carefully managing your hero and not dying, controlling the map while you can and take all the resource (urn and jungle creeps), you can eventually catch up and force the enemy team to make risky play if they want to stop you, which really shake things up as being the stronger team doesn't give you a safe pass anymore, you might still lose if you play incorrectly, and you should try to maximize your advantage before the enemy can catch up.
For the Algorithm