1) Join my new FSA Education online community for adult survivors on SUBSTACK at familyscapegoathealing.substack.com/. Subscribe for free to receive my FSA-related articles or become a paid subscriber to access Community features where you can engage with other FSA adult survivors via Group Chats and Discussion Threads. 2) Purchase my introductory book on Family Scapegoating Abuse (Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed) via this Universal Buy Link, which includes links to Amazon: books2read.com/intro2fsa.
Thank you. An oft repeated phrase here . Yes I have a question. Please bear with the rather unformulated thought process in asking it : As recommended I looked at the CVA Articles noting the professional disagreement, in preference to a therapeutic experiential appreciation, it's place to CSA - being specifically related to Cause and Type of abuse rather than General . In reading about this, I clicked on to to ACE and my World of prior appreciation just blew Wide Open. The Statistics alone have the potential to add missing pieces of knowledge to minds, searching. These Articles Duely Referenced point to Systemic abuses, socio economic psychological physiologically and emotionally in Causations of what I am presently occupied with : Having Repeated the generational pattern. ( with nights of tears and no sleep ). I now have a Frame Work with which to Labor. Thank you. Physician heal thy self is a well known refrain. I am working on that. With these Videos amazing Research and posted Free Articles on Studies done. I think I have a growing path for HOW to assist my daughter ( where she invites me ), but what my Question is : What Tools can be used to pass on to adult children who one day want to be parents, to support them, guide them, teach them, about the Triggers they will Face in raising their own children, and how best to be there, ( if permitted to ), in giving that adult child what they need, ( and each time it will be a different Trigger ), so that adult child then a Mother herself can see very clearly what belongs to her past childhood traumas, and what the present ( her Future as a Mother ) is in reality about. ????? Especially As this deep desire to assist, amend, help with , guide through comes from the Mother who Inflicted her original Trauma to begin with . Is it unwise impractical or unhealthy or unsafe ( in eyes of ACE ), to want to quietly sow seeds of Reality Truth and Unconditional Love for adult child and their child ?? I don't know but from limited awareness I state, that at present there is not a lot of information on Turning from NPD Perpetrator to remorseful Advocacy Facilitator, and informed available Guide of own FSA Adult Child's CHILD. I have work to do . And take a moment to thank you For generous comments already made. These assist in bringing it altogether. Thank you.
I love your book and I bought the hard back version bc I intend to give it forward to other victims of FSA with the understanding THAT THE INFORMATION WITHIN ITS COVER MUST CONTINUE TO BE PASSED ONTO THOSE OTHER'S OF WHOM HAS BEEN IN THE NEVER ENDING LOOP OF THEIR FAMDAMNLY NARCOPATHETIC ABUSE CYCLES!
What's really heartbreaking is how a malignant, sadistic narcissist parent teaches us to cling to narcissists as adults while also pushing away and being distrustful of honest, kind hearted sincere people. They really set us up to fail for our whole lives.
Us scapegoats can evolve into dark horses with understanding of all the knowledge that is available now. Once we know, we know and that helps us to grow. I’m so grateful that I’m not going through life like the folks who were supposed to raise and guide me. 🙏🏼❤️♾️🫀🧠💪🏼
Fortunately, I found a good guy. I was nearly 50 when I met him, but we've been together for 12 years and he's never raised his voice or hand to me, he listens when I talk, he's not afraid of difficult conversations and he's even in therapy to make himself a better person. He's in the kitchen making fruit salad because he knows how much I love fresh fruit ❤ and yes, he does the dishes and cooks. He's a manly man outside and can fix a vehicle or build an entire house, but inside, due to my disability, he does 90% of the chores. I cook and clean as I can, and he encourages me to rest. They're out there. It took me a while, but decent people are out there
Yes. What is it about narcissists and boundaries? One time when I had enough it slipped out of me "you need to start respecting my boundaries". All I got was a question back in sarcastic tone of voice " your boundaries?" I felt so confused at the time and asked myself if I was being ridiculous. That kind of things broke down my trust in me and I guess that was the point.
@@VeraAlm I had a 50 year old women tell me, "I am no longer respecting your boundaries! I don't even have boundaries with my own dad!" Wow...... How old are you? lol I unfriended her, went no contact. I was done with her BS.
A few weeks before my wedding, I had a dream that I was at the altar and did not physically recognize the man I was marrying. He looked the total opposite of my real life fiance. In an amusing way, I told my fiance about the odd dream. To my surprise, he became furious and shouted, "Why would you tell me that!". After we were married, he turned for the worse. It was like he was a total stranger! Lasted 24 months and I divorced.
That flash of lightening (awareness) that can reveal what is hidden and unseen seems to have come through in dream form courtesy of your unconscious - Thank you for sharing.
I met a woman 9 years ago who was "planted" in my life by the malignant narcissists who take joy in trying to sabotage me. She was so great at pretending to be just like me and love everything I did. Once I found out the wake of damage she caused, I cut off all contact. It's still so hard for me to believe that people can be so cruel. But at least now I know. Now I wonder how I'll ever trust again.
Oh, and a side note: there were several times we were supposed to get together, but my chronic hip and back pain would flare up out of nowhere. I now know it was my subconscious protecting me. Thank God for that.
I am stunned that there are psychologist that specialize in helping scapegoats. Being scapegoated is so very harmful and serious that psychologist now specialize in it.
I've been specializing in helping scapegoated children and adult survivors for nearly 20 years. You might want to check out my research-based book on what I named 'family scapegoating abuse' (FSA) to learn more about my work.
I could never figure out what was wrong until I discovered the language of the scapegoat abuse and how it affects people. For years I secretly thought and resigned myself to knowing that I was probably a malignant narcissist from the day I was born, but now I can see how the treatment I received both by parents siblings and, extended family, and community all worked together to never acknowledge me.... unless it was to frame, blame or punish. I know that sounds dramatic, but unfortunately, it's true. I don't have any memories of not being either responsible or vicariously responsible by either doing or not doing, but never for the good stuff, only when it went 'wrong'. I just thought I was bad through and through in other peoples eyes so I pretty much just shut off and went through all the motions, copying what other people did because that is what I thought I had to do to be a decent human being... but it was never about me, only me trying to be accepted, loved or even noticed in a positive way, and I look back at all the things I did to try to be normal and I am revolted by what some people refer to as 'humanity'. A lot of people are perverted thinkers. I get why people didn't like me, and I really do hope that I never see anyone I know again....... Not sure if I want to try ever again. Things are different now, having a different toolbox to work with, I am slowing healing and understanding and getting rid of all the stored angst in my body. I have been slowly starving myself for fifteen years now, and only recently that I have even started wanting to feed myself. I am wasted away. All my life I figured it doesn't matter to anyone if I live or die. But now, after bingeing on Rebecca's videos and seeing just exactly what happened, I want to start to care about myself again... she (me) never stood a chance while I couldn't reach her. I didn't even know that there was a me inside.
I am quite surprised too but as a survivor It also feels very reassuring to know that this awful abuse is recognized and there are specialists who are available to help in this particular field. You can feel very alone at times and just finding out something like this can really help 😊
Shit im the scapegoat with my significant other. He is a narc, abuser, manipulative, sadistic etc. I just dont know what to do anymore. Unfortunately i was cought in a moment of reactive abuse and have that over my head. Mind you i have hours upon hours of his narc, and abusive behavior twards my in many recorded arguments. I just want the court system to know, the world to know and get out with my kid 100% of the time. I fear when we go to couples counciling soon that the therapist will believe the fascad he puts up.
If you can afford it, travel is an excellent test of a person's true nature. Even a camping trip will do. It's ok if they hate it. It's a matter of how they express themselves to you while under the stress of an unfamiliar environment.
Great idea - everything does get compressed and much can be revealed when you travel with someone. That small trip might show you what a lifetime trip might have in store for you. Thank you!
I agree best way to date is get to know them a long time. A narc can fake being human for at least 3-6 months. The world is full of narcs right now, probably best to be single.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Agreed! It’s shocking. They’ve always been out there, for lifetimes. Awareness is at its highest now especially with social media and platforms like RUclips. With awareness, light is being shed on these monsters. 👹👺
Excellent point - that deserves an entire video. This happened to a good friend of mine. Incredibly smart, savvy lady. And she got completely fooled and was taken for everything she had. In her sixties. Left with nothing.
I was never believed. I was portrayed as a disobedient child. Funny that even though I was ostracized by other children at school, I was never in trouble. I'm 54 years old and just now learning that the abuse I suffered has a name. I'm the outcast of my family. I never fit in anywhere, so I believed that I had some sort of character flaw. I'm currently waiting for referrals for therapy. * I'm waiting for therapy referrals because my anxiety, that has never been treated, has gotten out of control to the point that my blood pressure was shooting up and down and made me short of breath, causing me to make the mistake of going to the ER at the suggestion of my nurse. It was really embarrassing to learn that my symptoms were from anxiety. It was not a good experience, especially because of the way hospital staff were interacting with me which made my symptoms even worse.
I hope you read my book on what I named 'family scapegoating abuse' (FSA), 'Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed; it will likely fill in some missing pieces if this is new to you. Also, many people have written me to tell me they asked their therapist to read my book and they were happy to do so, and this helped speed up the work.
@ArtemisBeneGesserit I have a couple of other issues that I think may have contributed to that. I talk loud for 2 reasons. First, I have constant ringing in my ears and have since early childhood. It took decades for me to teach myself to talk at a lower volume. Second, my voice gets louder when I'm excited for pretty much any reason (happy, scared, anxious, angry). I had told a nurse that was getting ready to insert an IV catheter that I wanted it it my arm rather than my hand. I was accused of being rude, even though I was not attempting to be rude... IV's in my hand cause the skin on my hand to feel like it's on fire.
@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse What is the title and where can I find the book? My mistake. I'm not sure if that's the title you mentioned or a chapter in the book...
As the scapegoated empath, I have fallen into this exact trap. Even after endless research on narcissism. I see so many have just given up on finding a healthy relationship, but I'm not giving up. Not because I'm lonely, or desperate, or looking to repair childhood trauma, but because I am not going to allow past abuse to ruin my future. I have much love to give, and I will never give up seeking what I deserve: love, joy, laughter, intimacy, everything a healthy relationship will possess. These mistakes just indicate to me where I need to make changes, meaning there's another lesson I needed to learn. I'm learning, and using it to move forward. I'm fine living alone, but I refuse to accept it as my cross to bear because I can't "trust myself to make good decisions". Learning from the mistakes, and applying the knowledge while going FORWARD, is my goal.
Before I knew what narcissism was, I noticed my husband would observe people we were with, then mimic their ways. Their values became his values. Their sense of humour became his sense of humour. He told me he didn't care for chocolate chip cookies. Then a visitor brought some and my husband said "Oh! My favourite!!" I later asked him if he even had a personality of his own. He replied he would 'go along to get along" but this went way past that. (Thank you for the cookies...my wife loves that flavor' would have both worked and been true. Depending on who his crowd was at the time, his behaviour and fashion sense could change dramatically. (I am now divorced).
I nowadays also understand what my sibling, the family golden child did to me trough my parents. Especially my father. The one he listened to. Its hard to forgive
One of the reasons I focus on the idea / concept / act of 'radical acceptance' versus 'forgiveness' with my clients, which is a more 'trauma-informed' approach.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse have wrote so much to my self. Memories. To be able see from distance and also to understand. Explaining the "scape goate" roll that you and others do have helped me so much. Some heavy weight of anger that have to come out. But I feel free today
I never got married because I shied away from people because I didn’t want anyone to see that ugly person my narcissistic father taught me that I was. My father is gone now and here I sit alone. I feel robbed of the privilege of having my own family.
@adamflint2377 Your feelings are understandable. There are indeed many types of overlooked losses as related to survivors of this type of abuse. Thank you for taking the time to comment.
I had a similar experience. I always kept to myself because I was told no one would want to be my friend and I was a misfit. Growing up alone and being told you are unlovable is very painful. I learned about Projective Identification and now I understand why this happened to me. The abuser is projecting their own feelings about themselves onto you. I still feel bad though and I can relate to what you are saying.
@@fancynancylucille I think being the scapegoat can be at the root of social anxiety, depression, alcohol and drug problems, maladaptive daydreaming and other mental health issues. The pain and loneliness would drive the scapegoated person to find an escape.
This is so true, I had 2 narc parents then had 2 kids with a malignant and her behaviour changed after about 4 years when I sold the house I owned and bought a new home with her on the mortgage. She was sleeping with a cocaine dealer. Also referred to psychiatrist for self harming, repeatedly smashing head into doors in front of children. She gave my children the scapegoat and golden child roles and the cycle continues. I had to go through courts to see children and she had drug and alcohol tests, heavy user of both over 6 month period. Social services are a disaster in Uk and described her as a loving caring mother and put many lies in there reports. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck it’s a duck. If its a narcissistic lying cheating manipulative self harming sex worker it’s a loving caring mother, apparently. I explained to them what she was a narcissist and showed her evidence. In the report I was criticised for talking about narcissism. Social workers I’ve encountered also highly manipulative. I’ve also had to cut ties with narc family. Smear campaigns on steroids. I had to leave town because extended family also full of narcs. Cousin hung himself because of them. 1 person against 10 plus narcs I didn’t stand a chance. Pure Evil and all a facade. It’s an Evil cult and if you ain’t Evil you’re not getting in, and if you dare pull back the veil and start pointing out their covert abusive tactics, the whole cult are gonna be gunning for you. My narc father would get so angry when I had the terminology for his behaviour and would say listen to him with his big words and my narc mother would say he thinks he knows everything. Family or no family, cull the lot of em.
This is absolutely painful and I am proud of you for cutting everyone off. Eventually, smear campaigns never stop. But at some point, you stop caring because you can either care about the present, your life affairs and kids, or about how you are perceived by strangers who give no shits about you, they are just gossiping for entertainment over other people's suffering. What you are doing is not easy, but it is the best thing you can do in such situation. Hang in there.
I am thankful for you. My mother was a violent psycho malignant narcissist. I am the family scapegoat. I was in a relationship with a malignant narcissist for a total of 7.5 years. She is a licensed practicing psychologist. I can’t even begin to describe the bewildering horrific journey through such a destructive house of mirrors!
You described my first husband to a T. I was 18 years old when I met him and married him 9 months later thinking I had met my Prince Charming. He used to proudly say that he was cocky but I was too young to realize this was not a good thing. We did remain together for 17 years and by the end I was an emotional wreck. He is still a skilled manipulator and has become very successful financially by using this skill set well. Most of my own family still thinks he's wonderful likely because people tend to want to be around wealthy people. I have gone the exact opposite way and tend to be skeptical of people who have a lot of money and prefer to be around the middle class of society. I am now married to a man who could not be more unlike my first husband and we are very happy together with no manipulation and no gas-lighting.
I LOVE this comment. Same goes for me and I’m really not interested. Once I went no contact and moved and came into my new environment I thought maybe I would try. Oh boy, the first individual who appeared was what Rebecca speaks of here. I told him I wasn’t interested - he said I’ll be patient. Totally didn’t hear what I said. I tested my theory- he flipped- I confronted. Nipped that in the bud and it reminded me that I don’t have to date and I can feel good about it ❤
This happened to me. I met 2 of these after my divorce. I remember looking into the first one’s eyes and I was absolutely terrified. It was the scariest thing I’ve ever seen. His eyes were empty… completely devoid of emotion… like black glass. It was as if he had no soul. I’ll never forget how terrifying those eyes were.
Yep, my malignant narc husband turned abusive as we were walking to the car, after the wedding. He was disgusted that he'd had to go through with it and act loving to me. But, he asked ME to marry HIM, not the other way round.
I had another Insight this week. I just realized that I went from way to *trusting* to the total opposite of *not trusting* anybody, even myself at times. Thank you Rebecca for another great video.
One of the first signs I can tell if a person is a malignant narcissist is they don't value my time. Another feature of a malignant narcissist that I've noticed is they are drawn to the color black. If you're into adult coloring and you happen to be coloring with them they're going to use the color black far more than the average person.
12:39 sadly I wanted a "happy ending" and was rushed into marriage. I was wrong, had to escape with my life. Lesson learned, never again. Thank you for publishing this truth 🙏🎯
I remember the day after I married, she came into the part of the house where I was and I looked at her overall demeanor, the look on her face, and thought to myself "Where did so-and-so go?" (I always had good intuition, but sadly often did not pay attention or respect what it was telling me) Of course, I was too young and naive to know what it all meant at the time or the implications, but boy, were there ever implications. Good video and info. Thanks. In my experience, I have found that being an empath and having been with a likely NPD person and surviving, is like being a recovering alcoholic. One must keep sharp, up-to-date, disciplined, and well-informed into perpetuity to avoid missteps in the future. The cost of not doing so will be prohibitive.
THIS: "In my experience, I have found that being an empath and having been with a likely NPD person and surviving, is like being a recovering alcoholic. One must keep sharp, up-to-date, disciplined, and well-informed into perpetuity to avoid missteps in the future. The cost of not doing so will be prohibitive." - Thank you, that says it all.
Thank you for addressing the puffed up narcissist, so many people get it wrong and then think their situation don’t match up with family FSA. Lots of information on this RUclips but many get it wrong. A narcissistic does not have to fit the dictionary definition of one. They can be much more skilled then that.
The malignant ones are the most dangerous. And, in my experience, they come in all kinds of shapes and forms and personalities. Looking back, at my unfortunate many entanglements, one very early tell will be little tiny boundary breaks.
I agree. The malignant narcissist/sociopath/ psychopath. People cannot possibly phantom what they are capable of doing. And if you finally TRY to tell ANYONE they think you’re insane and in my case many have alienated me-- for reaching out for help and telling the truth. Many just don’t want to get involved even though you may have helped them time and again in every way. And the effect on your health is extremely real and dangerous.
Mimicry is a key component of psychopathy. They’re not feigning or mirroring the way solely Narcissistic people can. they literally mimic. I watched a male psychopath literally mimic a females display of empathy in a meeting once, by also mimicking her female voice while using her words, because he had no idea how it should sound in his own voice and it was creepy as hell. He had no insight into how wrong it looked. He quickly changed the subject to something else when he noticed it hadn’t landed for him the way it had for her , and she looked super uncomfortable but confused too. They usually collect these “soundbites” for use elsewhere but he did it within the same conversation. Proper Stephen king moment.
I really appreciate your videos, Rebecca! 😊🙏💕✌️☮️! They are helping me recover. I wish there were more therapists like you available who understand Narcissism. I'm not believed by my maternal side of family. Even my siblings. My mother is a narcissist. They all support her. Alot of them don't bother to ask me my side of the story. I have no reason to lie about abuse.
Thank you for letting me know my videos are helpful. No, it is rare to be asked about what actually happened to you in these types of scapegoating families; and if you do get asked and share the truth, you are unlikely to be believed. I explain why this is so in many of my videos here and in my book, 'Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed', which you may want to check out sometime.
I married a covert narc who drained the life out of me and I had to be responsible for everything and then I was blamed and scapegoated. He cheated on me throughout the marriage and I didn't know it for a years, as he gaslighted me constantly. He was also in front of the church playing an instrument, I had no idea that my family was aligned with him andhe initiated divorce, And locked me out of all the accounts with the idea that I would come crawling back to him. After threatening me and kicking me out of the house!! I got a restraining order that he was able to violate it several times. He cheated on me, threatening to kill me and tried to kill our dogs. My family backed him up in the end and even though family members were on the restraining order they still backed him up. These people are such huge betrayers and I've always invested a lot of care and energy into my family of origin and what I get back is betrayals,, slander, mobbing, bullying, and trauma.😢
Great and realistic video Rebecca! I believe that family scapegoats especially need to be prepared for the dark reality of malignant narcissists and sociopaths. My parents were a combination of malignant and covert narcissism. They both played tag team for setting me up with marriage to a sociopath. I had broke up with the guy in my teenage years. The covert sat on the floor and bawled while the malignant sat and glared at me. Highly traumatized you can imagine I fell into the fawn response and unknowingly married a sociopath. It was a disaster! I have lost all respect for my self-serving parents.
This triggers a thought that some parents want to look good … and having your kids marry is a bonus … its all about them looking good. And if things don’t work out, its your fault even if their own marriage was a fakery. Exploring this further is a whole chapter.
@@roomg03 Thank you for your insight. Yes, it is all about looking good and covering up their fake marriage (saturated in violence, alcoholism, and religiosity). When a therapist asked my mother if she got help for our family suffering because of the malignant narcissist, she said "What would people think?" Both parents have personality disorders, take no responsibility for their lives and, instead, blame. At it's worst, I'm now told I "ruined" their lives and that I'm the narcissist. All they do is scapegoat until the day they die. It is a "whole chapter" of exploring and radically accepting this incredible dysfunction to finally have clarity, let go, and move on.
This is so sad for the child that is extremely abused so abused that there loyalty to the abusive parents to prove there love and goodness to the abusive parents that continue to abuse them life long. Like the abused child never grows up, stuck in a trap. I watched my brother be abused since childhood, and mentally, emotionally abused as growing up. Whoever was good to him good people were the bad ones, and bad people were to be loyal too. So bazaar. He couldn't take any criticism at all, he felt like such a failure. I watched him turn into my Dad, split personality. Very scary and abusive towards his mate, & me his sister if ever he felt attacked, or just to communicate to him to stop his behavior that starts to get abusive, he would split into my dad.) I tried to tell him. He didn't listen to me, because I was the Scapegoat he was told that I was a Lier. (I think he was a Scapegoat too) I felt so sad for him, he never broke away. He died abused himself with alcohol. He could never figure it out.
I always thought the DSM did not give an adequate explanation of personality disorders within the dark triad. Being the family scapegoat, I married a " monster" also..just as you say. Although, divorced many years ago, the sons, I brought up singlehanded, have turned into monsters also. I have had to move away from their physical and psychological abuse . Sometimes, no matter what you do, that malignant narcissism and sociopathic personality states are identified with past generations. Thankyou for your videos..they are like therapy.
It wasn’t until recently I stumbled upon your channel. Glad I did , excellent work Rebecca. I’m glad you ( and others) are bringing to light that not all narcs are overt. and covert, especially malignant covert narcissists are hard to spot and super destructive. For years while trying to figure what the hell Was wrong with my parents I couldn’t figure it out because their behavior didn’t fit what I thought “ a narcissist “ was. I’m 51, there wasn’t the resources like the internet to figure it out.( now I figured it out) I hope the generation that is now well informed about the abuse that happened to them Wasn’t there fault and are better able to deal with all the destruction it caused earlier in life and start healing much sooner. The longer you don’t deal with it, the worse it gets.
I realise a lot…… however, I also don’t want any “ justice/ hurt” for the role I was given. I really prayed that I am kind and forgiving. I scream/ cry/ punch 🤜 pillows especially but I refuse to be like them. ✌️
The thing I have learned to watch for is the guy who is trying too hard to dig a vulnerability out of me. Example: Though I was actually doing fine , the guy said " there's something sad about you...talk to me about it" To me, that felt very incongruity, because I'm very much in touch with my emotions. It's as if he was rolling the dice that his projection was going to elicit communication from me that would paint him as the empathetic listener. Since it wasn't my first rodeo, his ploy didn't work. And as his love bombing rapidly escalated within a couple of days...even before the 1st date, I stood up to it. I told him it was too soon for pet names and goodnight kiss texts. He took off and canceled the first date. Wow! I dodged that bullet! But I'm telling you, I wish I didn't have to fall prey to the ones in the past. And yes, I'm a Survivor of domestic violence and alcoholic narcissistic abuse and family scapegoating abuse. So yes, for a long time I didn't understand how I kept ending up with those kinds of guys. Now, I'm more careful about sharing the tougher parts of my history at the very beginning in order to protect me for the ones looking for someone who is vulnerable. And yes, I'm open and honest with people I've had enough time to screen.
You are saying exactly what I say to my FSA adult survivor clients in regard to forming new connections - including romantic. "To be cautious - like a fox walking over ice." (Tao Te Ching). Yes, set those boundaries early; it serves as a wonderful, natural deterrent to those who are seeking 'prey'.
You are 100% Correct. Right down to the monster coming out on my wedding day-DURING the wedding. My daughter is the same. The abuse and torture she’s out me through is horrific but to watch her with her 4 young children. The oldest, 11 now is very smart and understands that if she doesn’t kiss her mother’s butt and be her best friend (which I think is sick starting at 7 years old) she will be treated like her now 9 year old brother (the scapegoat) who has been cutting himself for at least a year and has been diagnosed major depressive , generalized anxiety and anger management issues. The 5 year old has been punching himself in the head and face since he’s 3 saying he’s stupid. The babies don’t have a chance in this world. None of them do and I couldn’t do a thing to help them. She lies to the psychiatrist and 2 psychologists for my grandson and psychologist for my granddaughter. Police, judges, everyone and she gets away with it. I’m crazy. My heart is broken. People could never imagine in their wildest dreams. Thank you for addressing this. Not many do at least not in the way you spelled it out right to the point.
You're welcome. I had a similar experience on my wedding day decades ago. Right before I was to walk down the aisle. I didn't understand it then but realize today it was traumatizing and horrific and I was dissociated throughout the entire wedding ceremony because of it. Meaning, I can relate!
Dear Dr Mandeville, could you make a video on what to look for in a therapist and also what to get clarified with them in the first session? Until now I haven’t had one therapist for instance who would have given me advice like you do in these videos, or told me about similar experiences to mine from other patients (without naming names of course) so that I felt less of an exception. I haven’t met one therapist who really interacted with me at all. They were empathetic walls, and even the empathy was so robotic, like, always the same response, like “That must have been hurtful” or “I can see your sadness.” - And after that NOTHING. They phrased it like we are supposed to phrase our words with narcissists, like, “I’m sorry you feel that way./ I’m sorry you got that impression from your mother.” I felt alone and just like some paying object. There never was a red thread either. Each session started with “How are you today?” and then I had to find a connection between my sadness of that day to my childhood. And again, after that: “I’m sorry you felt/now feel that way.” That was all. I can connect the dots, I also recognize when I’m sad or angry etc. But what do I do with those emotions after the cognitive “work” (connecting the dots). There was always an awkward silence afterwards from the side of my therapists. That was it, they had acted their part and now I was supposed to go on talking/speculating/talking more (with the same response) and then the session was over and that was it. I have never felt more helpless than after a therapy session, and I have tried so many therapists now, one of them was even the head of the clinic here. He was especially distant and mechanical, like, I had to fill in a form, always the same, to see where I had manoeuvred myself in the interaction with someone. And then I had to find a better action in order to find myself in a better position, concerning that person. Every single time I had to do that form. Every single time I found a “better” way but the emotions stayed. He didn’t really want to know much about my family either, said that wasn’t really important. The next therapist always went back to my family but stopped there. No exchange of thoughts, no exchange of ideas, no suggestions how to deal with upcoming emotions. Just a professional smile with a velvety voice that never changed, never any emphasis, it was a velvet robot 🤖. They are all robots. Or the opposite, I had that too. I had two female therapists who blamed me for still being sad or feeling scared. One even made scathing comments when I suddenly started hyperventilating because I had a panic attack.
I am very saddened to hear of your experiences, when you were hoping for so much more. Great suggestion. Yes, coincidentally, I plan to do a chapter on this in my next book, which will be on what I named (via recent research efforts) 'family scapegoat trauma' (FST). I'll try to get something out on video before the book is released (which I hope will be next year). I do address this somewhat in my first book on FSA (Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed) and in Step 4 of this article here: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/2021/09/08/10-self-care-tips-for-adult-survivors-of-family-scapegoating/
This is very very important!! Fortunately learning about covert narcissism alerted me to the less stereotypical types. What’s scary is how slow and how long it can take to see their true colours, but I think that’s more my blindness than their skill. Bottom line is ‘how do they make you feel?’ and keep asking that.. and watch for the flip from empathising, to trying to one-up you, dominate you, show you they are superior.. When you are vulnerable to the bait, the only hope you have of not getting devastated by these people, is to go slowly. And also assume they are a predator until proven otherwise. I have found therapy amazing, except in one fatal aspect. The neutral position my therapist takes.. that it could be 50-50 that the person is predatory (or really more leaning towards everyone ultimately is just a wounded child..) destabilises me. I think anyone that’s been through serious abuse or scapegoating can safely assume that the people who seek them out, are more than likely predators. If only I had taken that stance years ago, I would have saved myself a tonne more of serious abuse. But no the feedback was always that I, as a traumatized person, was projecting threat and danger where there was none. I’m so angry about that. What I noticed with my latest attempt at friendship, is that she asked me my opinion about everything and everyone. I noticed how she would watch my face when she asked me questions, esp more personal questions.. it all made me feel seen and heard. But then the one-upmanship began. The devaluing of men who were attracted to me, etc
In hindsight they were mirroring me to get me to open up, claiming to have similar problems though the evidence was the opposite, they were gathering information about me.. the only clue I had was that the empathy felt exaggerated, and something felt off..
I can totally relate! I'm a very empathic person and my gut has always been 100% but I'm susceptible to gas lighting, And I have rescue tendencies for wounded people. The swine test of saying no to something with a narcissistic person and watching their rage or contempt.... Can come up later in the relationship. They seem to know when they've got you hooked because being a faithful and loyal person, I have given way too much investment, way too many chances to people friends or romantic partners... Because this is what I have done with my family of origin because it has been devastating facing how truly evil and betraying they all are! I've been able to finally see the flags earlier but what really sucks is I currently do not have any safe people in my life! I've even gone to 12 step groups and they can be rife with narcissists, too! They want to control the group, especially indoctrination newcomers! There is flexibility in who tries to take leadership and dominant people take liberties! A group isn't supposed to really have a facilitator in charge. And I'm a truth teller and although diplomatic, people who are not authentic and who are there to garner supply tend to Slander me and Turn other people in the group against me! They are really uncomfortable with authenticity and that their true motives might be revealed because there's something to contrast it with!
@annastone5624 So much more awareness is needed in the Mental Health community regarding malignant narcissism. We are in sociopathic territory here. The abuse can be conscious, unintentional, and most cruel. The cause does not matter: Victims / Survivors experiences and attendant pain must be taken seriously - and validated.
@callie4112 I totally relate to their reactions to authenticity. Personally I completely avoid groups and I carefully test one to one relationships. I’m starting to feel safe for the first time in my life. I still feel super unsafe, but I feel mapping this stuff out, means we finally have a true map of reality and won’t get so easily blind sided.,
@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse yes!! The cause does not matter. Speculating on the cause, to the person who is being wounded, is a strawman fallacy.. used by abusers and enablers, so it’s particularly painful. The victim ends up apologising for criticising their abusers who are supposedly so ‘wounded’ and by implication ‘in pain’
Thank you Rebecca. It helps to hear I really didn't get affection, and really did need it. And maybe that it was not flaws that led me to seek it out. It was hard growing up disliked.
These malignant types you described, I’ve had as “life coaches” and therapists. One of them, felt they were a narcissistic abuse specialist, with no certification. After all the content I have studied, and applied, I missed it, I missed all the signs. It all started to add up, fortunately after a few sessions, I realized the grave mistake I had made. I also made the mistake of trusting way to soon, granted I made the assumption that going to someone for help was a safe thing to do. Especially with the last therapist I had. The hardest thing I am constantly trying to sort out, is how much of this broken people picker thing is my fault, how much is it there are just bad people out there? What do you do about that? I mean everybody is going through something. I’ve been in trauma therapy for years, all it’s done is speed up how fast I recognize these people. Not put it to bed and meet good people? Or is that more trauma thinking bullshit? I appreciate you putting this out there for me to find.
I've had an idea to do a video on exactly what you address (and ask about) here in your comment. I will do my best to get one out within the next month or two. It would be a good follow up video to this one here, in fact. Important questions. An I'm glad you're here.
Your broken people picker is not your fault! What happened to us growing up, that foundation of being gaslit and manipulated By scapegoating families laid down patterns that are not our fault. But it is our responsibility to recognize the patterns and work on them, if we want change.❤
Perhaps through awareness we can take the splinter out - change direction enough not to keep going back. meeting the right people and / or replacing people with others we might find like in Alanon recovery gives me hope
My Malignant NARC mother has Sadistically Catholic tendancies that over 6 decades of time has never raged or freaked out. All three of my "$pecial Need$" Authoritarian Dictator's derive their Harmony from taking turns to cause harm upon me. My 60th birthday is this year and being born on a Friday of the 13th day of the month necessities that im the problem & as such must be controlled.
It's sad that a child's experience in school doesn't include mandatory "Health" related topics that address Narcissism every other year starting 2cd-4th grade.
This so resonates with me. In fact I did it twice with the same person😢. Picking up the pieces now. Third time will NOT be a charm. Rebecca, You are amazing. Thank you for arming us with this knowledge and education to understand and have awareness for what happened and why..and what to watch out for so we can avoid it in the future.
I agree with this 💯 percent. It’s so true!! I am so happy I found your channel. Thank you!! ❤ It is so true, to go slowwwww when getting to know someone!!!! 😂
OMG my husband and his friend… I saw the same things… and the husband turned out to be a very angry and abusive person who is stalking me to this day… from 40 years ago…and not in a good way…Doctor this is a real breakthrough for me. Going to what is familiar… 😳
Exciting to hear you are having these new and profound awarenesses. It is so often the case that "we go to what we know," based on our childhood conditioning. But we need not keep repeating these damaging patterns. Change is possible. Linking you to a list or resources I put together in case you see something of interest: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
Yep. "We go to what we know..." We are conditioned to seek out the familiar and/or are re-creating our past unconsciously in order to have some kind of 'repair' experience to heal our childhood wounds - which rarely occurs.
1) Dont value your time 2) conversations are always about themselves 3) rude to service people - waitstaff, retail clerks etc 4) fantasize that they belong among celebrities 5) love bomb -> you are the best best best! 6) rageful discard leavinv you confused 7) project on to you their shame 8) good at alienating you from family and friends Run away!
Unfortunately when you have some issues within your family these evil people will use it against you and get advantage of it .I find these video really helpful
Very useful video because this other presentation of narcissism is rarely described. I had terrible relationships in my late teens/early 20s but I didn't feel I had the right to say no to these abusive men. I'm sure there were lots of nice, stable boys/men interested in dating me but I found them boring and couldn't relate to them - I had no mental blueprint for a healthy relationship and was actually scared of/actively avoided it. By my mid 20s I decided that, if I didn't have the skill base to avoid abusive partners, I would just avoid all partners! However, therapy in my late 20s and lots of work on myself, I finally met my now husband. I deliberately spent ages getting to know him, testing his honesty/trustworthiness/kindness, etc. Somehow it's now 21 years later and we're still doing ok. We're not perfect but I think I got it reasonably right in the end!
Spot On !! Brilliant video....explained so much I could relate to and why I keep gravitating to the same type of N as my malignant N father. Thanks for your consistent great work here on RUclips!!
15:58 True! We need to take it slow. People will show us who they are in time. Thank you for making this video. I watched many videos on this subject and many are repeating clichés about narcs (some channels are amazing though). Few bits here, few bits there and the full picture made sense, but I never got the full description of those types. There are common characteristics, but not at the beginning. I can't recommend enough the power of slowing down when we meet new person. I finally learnt this at 42 and tried it this year. It saved me from having another disaster in my life!!! For context, it was a relative I knew when we were children. He contacted me on Fb. It all was going too fast (the hunger to have some family connection showed on both sides). I also sensed something that was causing me stress because of him, but I couldn't put my finger on it. I told myself to slow down as he may be my relative, but I don't really know anything about him. It was a good call! The connection lasted 3 weeks. 4 video chats and most issues were obvious. Slowing down gives you most info about new person very quickly in most situations. I guess, that is my little success story - for a change :D
I'd say this most certainly is an FSA recovery success story - and a most profound one! This is called WISDOM. It sounds like you are now developing a critical aspect of this ability to 'listen within': Discernment. Thank you for this valuable comment that I hope many will take the time to read, and for letting me know you found this video helpful.
Mother was the narc, I was the scapegoat. Cast as a servant to my sibling, she didn't even use my name until my 20's. My sibling got away with everything while I got the blame. Every achievement I had was belittled or not to be mentioned. I left at 17 and never went back. My brother has grown into an entitled do-nothing and because he has developed health issues due to self neglect I am expected to care for him when retirement happens. She continues to believe she controls him to this day when he is actually manipulating her. Life is a lesson and that contemptuous neglect has been a hard one to learn.
110% out 100%! Absolutely, astounding! Forty years of every single therapeutic, Spiritual path... Until... 👇 Even, years of ACA hasn't hit this Bullseye. Read many books on your suggested list over the decades... Okay, dearest walking miracle - Rebecca... Your practice is packed, for those of us in NEED - where are those trained in this area? Includes: I wish, pray I could say what I need to… my searching for trained a specialist FS & CPSD since covid has been exhausted 🕊️🙏
Your kind words are much appreciated. A few months ago I started a new single session consultation service to get people on the right track and help with tailored resources. More information here: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/scapegoat-recovery-consultations/
I am so proud that I taught myself a lot of this through journaling and validating my experience. Going to counselling too, but counselling never spells it out for me because that’s a different process. But it’s fantastic to hear you spell it out. Ive particularly had females who do this.. fast-friending.. oh you’re my soul-sister..super friendly etc I’ve just spent 3 years (!!) getting sucked in and journaling about my feelings about one girl and I still think if I met her now I’d be in danger of getting sucked in. But I haven’t.. I particularly noticed moments she’d copy me ( going overboard with the mirroring) she’d claim values I’d expressed but clearly weren’t hers, she’d express empathy for the most bizarre people that didn’t need it as she was just trying to perform it, and doing it badly. But most of all I noticed a feeling of hollowness, the surface was just great, but this weird underlying hollowness.. I think that’s the shortcut if you can access it. That and spotting the first devaluations and aggressions. They were the two things that helped me with the cognitive dissonance the most.
That was really good advice. And the reason why it was good, is because you explain how people get involved with those bad people and it's because of their childhood and that they're too trusting and you give good advice on that that other people don't give they just explain the narcissist but they don't explain how people end up with narcissists. More videos on the type of people who fall for these narcissists and evil people is very helpful. Thank you!
This information is very useful. I have long thought the DSM was incomplete in its description of narcissism. As a scapegoat I had the impression l had a leg up on the golden child who continues to live in a state of denial as to the true nature of the narcissistic parent(s.) But scapegoats still have a deep-seated need for approval. We to know that we are completely valid even when we are alone.
Glad the video was helpful - And yes, a need for approval and high rejection sensitivity is understandably typical with most (not all) FSA adult survivors.
I was married to two of these monsters. Completely destroyed me, and then it took over a decade to recover. I'm still not 100% and may never be. Interestingly, my first spouse's toxic behavior resembled my father's and my second, my mother's. Both monsters, just with entirely different MOs. It's true that we gravitate toward what feels familiar when our trauma is unhealed.
Can you speak to what to do when your small child is scapegoating you? I wondered why I was so triggered by my 4 yo. I recently found out about the scapegoat role and definitely think that’s me. My child gives me angry looks when she’s displeased with me, which have me all in my feelings and I usually repress them and act with her the way I think a compassionate parent would. But even that is a false self, coming from a place of fear and anger. Would love to hear about parenting healthily when your child is hitting those sore spots of FSA in you 🙃
Fantastic idea. My list is very long now for subscriber questions so I'm running polls and letting community members vote on which ones to cover. But it is an excellent topic for me to address at some point.
Oh man! It's too late for me. How, I wonder, would today be if... • If even ONE of the therapists my mother sent me to (to find out what was wrong with me so they'd fix me) from 13yo... would have heard beyond her narrative of me and identified me as the family scapegoat/truth-teller/empath! Oh! • If my soul and psyche would have been rescued back then... with words of compassion, strategies of survival, validation of self-worth and belief in myself, (maybe even foster care!) • If I had been capable then - of not being convinced myself that it was me..and I didn't belong because I was unlovable. (from my parents' manipulative brainwashing, shaming, blaming, absence of nurturing, v/m/p abuse,..all of it...and more! • If I hadn't been such an adaptable, perfectly cooperative scapegoat. So trained, so convinced, that I became a perfect target for the malignant narcissist who I was engaged to in a month! This was back in the traditional day and when he charmingly, romantically asked my father if he could take me as his wife, "jokingly" my father replied: "If you promise not to give her back". I was 30! I'd been on my own since 20, and successful Advertising Exec in DC! 600+ miles from home! What the fuck!? For our wedding we filled over 80 rooms in a Victorian Era inn close to my hometown with 300 family and friends for a 3-day weekend. Payed for the wedding expenses alone, not traditionally by the brides family. Being I was 30, (an old-maid back then) this was a reason to celebrate...finally I was really loved by the man of my dreams...primarily a man my father and brother would find acceptable. THE NIGHT BEFORE OUR VOWS in the inn's private dining room, my husband unconsciously went to light a cigarette. Kind and meek, a lightly reminded him the dining room was non-smoking. No big deal... But in front of my eyes this man transformed in a second. "NOBODY tells me what to do. Especially not you!" An unfamiliar threatening voice full of rage and hate and rejection. That's the moment he showed his true being... • If only I would have called off the wedding. 2 years later, he abandoned me, our baby daughter and 4 day old son. completely MIA for 25 years and counting. I raised my daughter & son alone (at 40 I had a daughter "out of wedlock...another black checkmark) vowing to never trust myself to choose a man again) With all my best efforts and intentions they were raised under the attachment parenting style by me alone. (NO support from family!) We lived in quaint rural poverty..but they knew they were loved every moment with no conflict, no broken spirit...(I broke the chain!) and at best provided for humbly but stablely and with out want or need. But my father's influence on them, his narrative of me...(depressing, no-self worth, broken, ruined, etc... has now been adopted by my daughters..i am again rejected by the ones I love more than life itself. Validation again. It's too late to be hopeful anymore..ill be 60 next month. They won't be celebrating with me. At least, dare I say, my 25yo son loves me...at least. Until I found you Rebecca, ( this weekend) I still believed my family and myself...how unworthy of love I must be.. everyone abandons me But you have given me a view i never conceivedof... BTW... i went no contact on Dec. 9th. Thanks all you loving empathic beings for reading my story. Love, ImaginarySusan
This is all new to me and is making so much sense - just bought your book on Amazon. I am 64, just broke up AGAIN with the same man who has been in my life for 29 years. Better late then never.
I hope you find my book helpful. I have a hunch you will. You may also want to subscribe to my FSA Education substack (free or paid) - more info’ here: familyscapegoathealing.substack.com/about
My younger sister was the scapegoat sadly. She suffered greatly as our dad is a narc. She recently moved in with a malignant man. He is 15 years older than her and domineering, rageful & controlling (just like our dad). He has money (unlike our dad). He shuts down restaurants so they can be the only ones dining, expensive vacations etc. She's now working for his company. He has her HOOKED & entangled. He at one time put a tracker on her car! We don't even know where she lives (she abruptly moved out & has become extremely secretive and distant). If my mom calls her, she rushes off the phone. It's as if she's disowned our family for this guy! No clue what to do since she's late 20's almost 30 & grown up technically.
Be yourself courageous and understanding and lovingly express her precious worth to you. Tell her how sorry you are for her abuse ( her pain..her yearning for acceptance and nurturing love...EVERYTHING you are now aware of that she witnessed her siblings enjoying while she was ignored. Invite her to be special to you...Don't be insincere, don't be inconsistent, don't let her down please, include her in your life, share your children, and dear friends, experiences, thoughts, happiness, welcome her Forever and whenever she's ready into your fold. Protect her. Stand up for her.. and refuse to hear repeat or accept comments that support the asshole family members stand up against them for her. Let her know. Have her back! (She succumbed long ago... her hopeful spirit accepted her fate and lost faith in hope. ) But her chest still feels permanently heavy and pained and her heart still beats even as it is broken. (She fears it will abandon her too.. unexpectedly stopping finally against her secret silent will to hold on at least long enough to just feel what it feels like - for even a moment, to not be forgotten. unnoticed. unremembered. To be thought of fondly, remembered on her birthday, invited. included. ...anywhere, anytime. To be held when her pent-up despair and sorrow betray her. When her head shouts louder of her insignificance than the whisper of unfamiliar joy she hardly recognizes stirs slightly in her heart. Thank her. Appreciate her. Protect her. from doubt. from fear. from memories. from loneliness, solidified in time. Ask her to forgive the you who hurt her. to forget what you didn't know. Have patience, be gentle. (She's as strong and fragile the an ornament of spun glass. Remind her YOUR LOVE is forever it won't go away. I know that's quite alot. It just my own dreams really. The things I myself desperately yearned for ... still. As a forever-scape-goat.. Bless you
Are you really from Morocco? I've made a friend there ... from 10 years ago now... im coming there soon to visit...maybe even to run away..far away from my "ex" family. Maybe we will know each other and meet someday!? ...such a scapegoat I am. Always trying to make connections.
Wow..it happened on my wedding ,ignored ,no s*x , no love and attention and I have been ignored by him since, I stopped wanting to be intimate with him because he didn't want to be intimate with me ,so cold , used my kids against me ,has lots of supply and does triangulation with my own family , I was a child scapegoat and ignored so it chilled me when you said , the mirroring. I desperately needed it all my life for someone to see me and then I married someone who can't, I struggled with health issues and severe depression , now I do nothing but sit in the house day after day ,I feel stuck with him because I'm 61 and tired .Thank you so much ❤
So very sorry to hear this. Linking you to a list of resources I put together for FSA adult survivors in case you see something of interest: @lenat7198
Narcissists are great actors they have a complex, what they show on the outside isn’t how they are inside . They are like hounds they can sniff and smell your weaknesses and then they come in manipulate validate you and then abuse you .
That radar they seem to have comes with a lot of staring at the target and an insistence for prolonged eye contact regardless of whether it's a romantic or platonic situation. It's super hard to describe and warn others (like our children) because it's hard understand how underhanded the tactics are. Went no contact for good to stop it. Thank you, Rebecca for delving into these types. I feel heard.
I'm glad you do. Now you are making me think of someone I once dated many years ago who did that same kind of stare...It eventually ended with me having to get a restraining order (!)
Yes!!! I was questioned recently by someone as to why i didnt make much eye contact when we met.... This was a male coworker. i never trusted him then and still don't though we are still "friends". The eye contact dominance is a real thing!
They go to their graves with no remorse for what they did. You should see the letter my biological mother wrote me, blaming everybody and everything else for the things SHE DID. I hate that nonsense. Everyone else MADE her do it. Everything else FORCED her hand. I can't stand to even look at them while they're playing the "poor little me" garbage. She did something that altered my life forever. She also refused to look at me when I mentioned it in-person. I used to be in professional acting. She made no gestures that indicate remorse. She was annoyed and wanted me to leave.
When these people work with children like child protective services it's disgusting we need to vett these people BETTER they're ruining already traumatized families.
I think the trait is called "self-sacrificing self enhancement", with a related subject being altruistic narcissism. I learned about the trait from a self assessment called the PNI (pathological narcissism inventory).
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse very cool, looking forward to watching. I took the self-assessment and scored highly on the vulnerable narcissistic traits side. Having been scapegoated by my covert NPD mom this freaked me out. After reading through the abstract (but without access to the full paper >:0 ) I interpreted my results as being consistent with a borderline personality structure because of lower than average exploitative and self-sacrificing self enhancing traits. I'm still undiagnosed with BPD (do have clinical diagnosis of CPTSD) but am virtually certain that I have it and that I inherited the genetic component from my father. None of the men on my father's side can tolerate stress. It creates a lot of cognitive dissonance knowing that I may misinterpret neutral cues as negative, but also knowing that I was scapegoated and misunderstood. Not seeking support from you or anything as I'm in an awesome IOP program right now, but thought it might be good to mention that if a viewer takes the PNI and comes back with vulnerable narcissistic traits that doesn't necessarily mean they therefore have NPD. Thank you for your videos and research!
You're most welcome. I've been conversing with another subscriber on the need for better categories and criteria in the DSM when it comes to NPD. Do you have any thoughts on that, given how you view your intrapsychic dynamics?
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Unfortunately I don't have a full copy of the DSM-5 so can't make a truly informed comment. I'd imagine there are all sorts of differentiating factors, comorbid conditions, etc. which complicate diagnosis. While I don't necessarily disagree with the 9 traits listed in dsm-5, I do believe the categorical system of traits is not a rich enough way to capture the nuances of NPD and that a person with BPD could be confused with covert NPD easily if factors like stability of identiy or self-sabotaging behaviors are not taken into account. I personally like the idea of a multi-dimensional model with Cluster-B being classed as a wide variety of maladaptive post traumatic stress responses. Improved diagnostics would help clinicians better individualize care based on these maladaptive responses/traits. Just my two cents as a patient of course!
My brother and my son are definitely malignant narcissists. My mother, a dark empath. All the flying monkeys and the smear. My life has been hard as I am my birth family's scapegoat. I am No Contact currently. AND I won't go back.
So sorry to hear this. Linking you to a list of resources I put together for FSA adult survivors in case something their catches your eye: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
Thank you! I don't see much information on this topic. After narrowly escaping someone who I believe to be a covert malignant narcissist, I learned that they can pretend to be very caring, but like you said, there is a hollowness there. His mask came off when I went no contact. They are dangerous! Please be safe out there.
Dear Rebecca, Just to say here- after reading your great suggestions here that- I HAVE found myself a Trauma Informed Therapist and she is brilliant! 😊
These weekly videos are so helpful! I’ve recently gone no contact with my entire family. Could you dive deeper into what happens to the family system when the scapegoat goes no contact? It’s been one of the most difficult experiences for me (a host of feelings…grief, sadness, anger, relief, justification, etc.). Would really appreciate more resources and information on this topic! Thanks Rebecca!
I did address it somewhat in this video but it is on the narcissistic family system. See what you think - some of your issues are addressed there: ruclips.net/video/eRlLWzpALu4/видео.html
Yes, I watched this video a few months ago and it was very helpful!! Thank you for posting content on this subject. My family of origin is ruled by a narcissistic mother. So it’s exactly on par with what I needed to learn more about. Still, I often wonder how dynamics in the family change overtime when the family scapegoat is gone/free. No contact is about self respect, protection, and preservation for the scapegoat but it’s usually the last resort and often not what the scapegoat wishes for or wants to happen - most people can’t understand how anyone can cut ties with their entire family but it’s usually the result of unimaginable abuse for many, many years. It’s tough to explain to most outsiders - they cannot contemplate or understand the gravity of the situation. I am searching for more resources as I go through this difficult journey of no contact and hopefully heal from deep family trauma/wounds. Thank you for all you do to help!!💕
Oh gosh. Absolutely! I was looking for a healing relationship. So I over trusted. What I got was a malignant narcissist. My drug addicted father was absent. This guy was so smooth. He would sit in the front row of church lovingly rubbing the shoulders of his little girl and boy. I thought “ what a wonderful dad”! We went on picnics and for outings every weekend. The fun ended the day we got home from the honeymoon. The signs were there of course but they were so at odds with all the wonderful attributes he displayed that I discounted my instincts.
So very sorry; we FSA adult survivors can be very vulnerable to predatory people, especially when young; I plan to do a video on this at some point. I went through this myself, btw.
That would be great! I learned hard truths from that experience and i see yellow flags and heed then now. Learning to trust again is another story. id love to hear yours!
Tks Rebecca this week's video is very helpful cos I'm slowly getting back out in the world & using my intuition as guidance & I must say it's hard. I'm meeting a lot of fixers & rescuers at my support groups & I find that they have cognitive empathy with no feeling that really scares me cos the leading questions are not for my benefit & could be a thrill for their sadistic fueling. I'm getting stronger every week & don't engage in their thrill seeking but I worry for others who are open books. Is it wise for me to keep going to these meetings? I'm thinking I may get Scapegoat ed again cos I'm a threat to their supply ?
Tks Rebecca a healthier environment is what I need 😊 I've noticed myself zoning out when I get home a familiar feeling of dissociation & drained the next day. It's as you say we unconsciously go to what we know 😨 I've learned the reason why birds of a feather flock together & although I got to improve my social skills it's not the method of peer support that I was looking for 👎
Thank God! I stopped dating over 20 years ago. My nursing profession and faith fills my need for connection. I believe my mother is a malignant narcissist. Nobody would believe it.
Hello, it's me again, and I'm 😮 at one of your videos. For many years, i have wondered what was wrong with my father, but nothing ever really fit, until now. Extremely intelligent, very productive, and stable employment, yet it was all a veneer. i apparently need to do some more reading.
You might want to read my article here: familyscapegoathealing.substack.com/p/understanding-malignant-narcissism? / My resource list is here. familyscapegoathealing.substack.com/p/resources
The malignant ex husband has been with the new woman since 2021. The seem to be going stronger than ever. I suspect she’s the same as he is as they are long distance. He and I started long distance so I missed a lot of cues that you’d get face to face. I’d avoid long distance dating like the plague. The dating apps are full of them, I’m told. I’m too scared to ever date again.
I’m just adding a comment to remind you to post the follow-up video, with the signs of malignant narcissism. I just discovered your content, & am newly subscribed. Thank you for sharing your content (not everyone can afford access to therapy, & although these videos are not a supplement, they can sure be helpful). 🙏
Most of my activity is on my Substack now - Here's an article on malignant narcissism that I recently posted there: familyscapegoathealing.substack.com/p/understanding-malignant-narcissism. You may want to subscribe to my Substack Newsletter as well (free - paid subscribers can access private community features): familyscapegoathealing.substack.com/about
I've had an employer a year ago who has gotten a job in his wife's "company", she's doing Ergotheraphy, working even with Borderlines and he does NLP. Only a few months before starting work with them (I worked in their house) I learned about my mother and my Ex being "covert" Narcissists, so this employer was indeed the first Narcissist of this type I had to deal with outside my private life and I saw everything in how he mistreated me and his wife. After one year he got me fired by her. I was just tol stubborn and refused to meet his absolutely crazy expectations and I demasked several of his behaviours. The worst is, that his wife feels like all is good and she even adviced one of her employees on her bad relationship, while I witnessed her husband insulting her, giving back handed compliments, treating the kids badly and gkving her issues and hissing at her.
![Megan Thee Stallion - Roc Steady (feat. Flo Milli) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HozPPyqW0dY/mqdefault.jpg)
1) Join my new FSA Education online community for adult survivors on SUBSTACK at familyscapegoathealing.substack.com/. Subscribe for free to receive my FSA-related articles or become a paid subscriber to access Community features where you can engage with other FSA adult survivors via Group Chats and Discussion Threads.
2) Purchase my introductory book on Family Scapegoating Abuse (Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed) via this Universal Buy Link, which includes links to Amazon: books2read.com/intro2fsa.
Your book arrived yesterday and I'm looking forward to reading it. 😊
Thank you. An oft repeated phrase here .
Yes I have a question. Please bear with the rather unformulated thought process in asking it :
As recommended I looked at the CVA Articles noting the professional disagreement, in preference to a therapeutic experiential appreciation, it's place to CSA - being specifically related to Cause and Type of abuse rather than General . In reading about this, I clicked on to to ACE and my World of prior appreciation just blew Wide Open.
The Statistics alone have the potential to add missing pieces of knowledge to minds, searching.
These Articles Duely Referenced point to Systemic abuses, socio economic psychological physiologically and emotionally in Causations of what I am presently occupied with : Having Repeated the generational pattern. ( with nights of tears and no sleep ).
I now have a Frame Work with which to Labor.
Thank you.
Physician heal thy self is a well known refrain.
I am working on that. With these Videos amazing Research and posted Free Articles on Studies done.
I think I have a growing path for HOW to assist my daughter ( where she invites me ), but what my Question is :
What Tools can be used to pass on to adult children who one day want to be parents, to support them, guide them, teach them, about the Triggers they will Face in raising their own children, and how best to be there, ( if permitted to ), in giving that adult child what they need, ( and each time it will be a different Trigger ), so that adult child then a Mother herself can see very clearly what belongs to her past childhood traumas, and what the present ( her Future as a Mother ) is in reality about.
?????
Especially
As this deep desire to assist, amend, help with , guide through comes from the Mother who Inflicted her original Trauma to begin with .
Is it unwise impractical or unhealthy or unsafe ( in eyes of ACE ), to want to quietly sow seeds of Reality Truth and Unconditional Love for adult child and their child ??
I don't know but from limited awareness I state, that at present there is not a lot of information on Turning from NPD Perpetrator to remorseful Advocacy Facilitator, and informed available Guide of own FSA Adult Child's CHILD.
I have work to do .
And take a moment to thank you
For generous comments already made.
These assist in bringing it altogether.
Thank you.
I love your book and I bought the hard back version bc I intend to give it forward to other victims of FSA with the understanding THAT THE INFORMATION WITHIN ITS COVER MUST CONTINUE TO BE PASSED ONTO THOSE OTHER'S OF WHOM HAS BEEN IN THE NEVER ENDING LOOP OF THEIR FAMDAMNLY NARCOPATHETIC ABUSE CYCLES!
Do you have any audio books as I love to listen to your voice and I can take it in better? Thank you very much! 🇨🇦❤️🙏 4:07
Scapegoat x narcissist = what? 🩷 8:16
What's really heartbreaking is how a malignant, sadistic narcissist parent teaches us to cling to narcissists as adults while also pushing away and being distrustful of honest, kind hearted sincere people.
They really set us up to fail for our whole lives.
very true, I am a hermit socially.
Us scapegoats can evolve into dark horses with understanding of all the knowledge that is available now. Once we know, we know and that helps us to grow. I’m so grateful that I’m not going through life like the folks who were supposed to raise and guide me. 🙏🏼❤️♾️🫀🧠💪🏼
💯💯💯
Absolutely! I hit my fair share of narcissists before I found a decent one at almost 50 years old
@Hawaiiansky11 Yes - and if there is trauma bonding, it is even more challenging to work through this. But it IS possible, mercifully.
Fortunately, I found a good guy. I was nearly 50 when I met him, but we've been together for 12 years and he's never raised his voice or hand to me, he listens when I talk, he's not afraid of difficult conversations and he's even in therapy to make himself a better person. He's in the kitchen making fruit salad because he knows how much I love fresh fruit ❤ and yes, he does the dishes and cooks. He's a manly man outside and can fix a vehicle or build an entire house, but inside, due to my disability, he does 90% of the chores. I cook and clean as I can, and he encourages me to rest. They're out there. It took me a while, but decent people are out there
Thank you, and I agree. And they are worth the challenge of going slow and being patient - and definitely worth the wait!
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse thank you, we're getting married this spring ❤️
Fantastic - congratulations! (I met my fiance in my mid-fifties!)
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse congratulations!
Talk to them about boundaries, then see them start getting real uncomfortable.
Sooo true. I see a video on this in my future (!)
Yes. What is it about narcissists and boundaries? One time when I had enough it slipped out of me "you need to start respecting my boundaries". All I got was a question back in sarcastic tone of voice " your boundaries?" I felt so confused at the time and asked myself if I was being ridiculous. That kind of things broke down my trust in me and I guess that was the point.
@@VeraAlm I had a 50 year old women tell me, "I am no longer respecting your boundaries! I don't even have boundaries with my own dad!"
Wow...... How old are you? lol
I unfriended her, went no contact. I was done with her BS.
I heard a funny joke the other day.... Why did the narcissist cross the road?????? Because they thought it was a boundary!
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Please do. Rebecca.
A few weeks before my wedding, I had a dream that I was at the altar and did not physically recognize the man I was marrying. He looked the total opposite of my real life fiance. In an amusing way, I told my fiance about the odd dream. To my surprise, he became furious and shouted, "Why would you tell me that!". After we were married, he turned for the worse. It was like he was a total stranger! Lasted 24 months and I divorced.
That flash of lightening (awareness) that can reveal what is hidden and unseen seems to have come through in dream form courtesy of your unconscious - Thank you for sharing.
Wish to GOD I HAD DONE THAT. GOOD FOR YOU.
This is what happened to me. I ended up with a Narcissistic Sociopath. Then I took a look at my mother and it all made sense.
I met a woman 9 years ago who was "planted" in my life by the malignant narcissists who take joy in trying to sabotage me. She was so great at pretending to be just like me and love everything I did.
Once I found out the wake of damage she caused, I cut off all contact.
It's still so hard for me to believe that people can be so cruel. But at least now I know.
Now I wonder how I'll ever trust again.
Oh, and a side note: there were several times we were supposed to get together, but my chronic hip and back pain would flare up out of nowhere. I now know it was my subconscious protecting me. Thank God for that.
Indeed, the body never lies! Glad you listened to this source of innate wisdom via its 'health-seeking' signals.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Indeed!
🙏💛🙏
Wow!...." being preyed upon by your own family members"...that says it all, Rebecca!
Sadly, it does, when it comes to these times of predatory family members.
I am stunned that there are psychologist that specialize in helping scapegoats.
Being scapegoated is so very harmful and serious that psychologist now specialize in it.
I've been specializing in helping scapegoated children and adult survivors for nearly 20 years. You might want to check out my research-based book on what I named 'family scapegoating abuse' (FSA) to learn more about my work.
I could never figure out what was wrong until I discovered the language of the scapegoat abuse and how it affects people. For years I secretly thought and resigned myself to knowing that I was probably a malignant narcissist from the day I was born, but now I can see how the treatment I received both by parents siblings and, extended family, and community all worked together to never acknowledge me.... unless it was to frame, blame or punish. I know that sounds dramatic, but unfortunately, it's true. I don't have any memories of not being either responsible or vicariously responsible by either doing or not doing, but never for the good stuff, only when it went 'wrong'. I just thought I was bad through and through in other peoples eyes so I pretty much just shut off and went through all the motions, copying what other people did because that is what I thought I had to do to be a decent human being... but it was never about me, only me trying to be accepted, loved or even noticed in a positive way, and I look back at all the things I did to try to be normal and I am revolted by what some people refer to as 'humanity'. A lot of people are perverted thinkers. I get why people didn't like me, and I really do hope that I never see anyone I know again....... Not sure if I want to try ever again. Things are different now, having a different toolbox to work with, I am slowing healing and understanding and getting rid of all the stored angst in my body. I have been slowly starving myself for fifteen years now, and only recently that I have even started wanting to feed myself. I am wasted away. All my life I figured it doesn't matter to anyone if I live or die. But now, after bingeing on Rebecca's videos and seeing just exactly what happened, I want to start to care about myself again... she (me) never stood a chance while I couldn't reach her. I didn't even know that there was a me inside.
I am quite surprised too but as a survivor It also feels very reassuring to know that this awful abuse is recognized and there are specialists who are available to help in this particular field. You can feel very alone at times and just finding out something like this can really help 😊
Shit im the scapegoat with my significant other. He is a narc, abuser, manipulative, sadistic etc. I just dont know what to do anymore. Unfortunately i was cought in a moment of reactive abuse and have that over my head. Mind you i have hours upon hours of his narc, and abusive behavior twards my in many recorded arguments.
I just want the court system to know, the world to know and get out with my kid 100% of the time.
I fear when we go to couples counciling soon that the therapist will believe the fascad he puts up.
not over here in Germany - we are still decades away from it. Unbelieveable but true @IngaCombs.
If you can afford it, travel is an excellent test of a person's true nature. Even a camping trip will do. It's ok if they hate it. It's a matter of how they express themselves to you while under the stress of an unfamiliar environment.
Great idea - everything does get compressed and much can be revealed when you travel with someone. That small trip might show you what a lifetime trip might have in store for you. Thank you!
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼Agreed! This is the best way to see someone’s true nature!!!
I agree best way to date is get to know them a long time. A narc can fake being human for at least 3-6 months. The world is full of narcs right now, probably best to be single.
And fake being humanE...
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Agreed! It’s shocking. They’ve always been out there, for lifetimes. Awareness is at its highest now especially with social media and platforms like RUclips. With awareness, light is being shed on these monsters. 👹👺
well said. over trusting too early , the wrong people. Believing you are safe when you are not. Financial schemes are designed to take from us also.
Excellent point - that deserves an entire video. This happened to a good friend of mine. Incredibly smart, savvy lady. And she got completely fooled and was taken for everything she had. In her sixties. Left with nothing.
I was never believed. I was portrayed as a disobedient child. Funny that even though I was ostracized by other children at school, I was never in trouble. I'm 54 years old and just now learning that the abuse I suffered has a name. I'm the outcast of my family. I never fit in anywhere, so I believed that I had some sort of character flaw. I'm currently waiting for referrals for therapy.
* I'm waiting for therapy referrals because my anxiety, that has never been treated, has gotten out of control to the point that my blood pressure was shooting up and down and made me short of breath, causing me to make the mistake of going to the ER at the suggestion of my nurse. It was really embarrassing to learn that my symptoms were from anxiety. It was not a good experience, especially because of the way hospital staff were interacting with me which made my symptoms even worse.
I hope you read my book on what I named 'family scapegoating abuse' (FSA), 'Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed; it will likely fill in some missing pieces if this is new to you. Also, many people have written me to tell me they asked their therapist to read my book and they were happy to do so, and this helped speed up the work.
@ArtemisBeneGesserit I have a couple of other issues that I think may have contributed to that. I talk loud for 2 reasons. First, I have constant ringing in my ears and have since early childhood. It took decades for me to teach myself to talk at a lower volume.
Second, my voice gets louder when I'm excited for pretty much any reason (happy, scared, anxious, angry).
I had told a nurse that was getting ready to insert an IV catheter that I wanted it it my arm rather than my hand. I was accused of being rude, even though I was not attempting to be rude... IV's in my hand cause the skin on my hand to feel like it's on fire.
@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse What is the title and where can I find the book?
My mistake. I'm not sure if that's the title you mentioned or a chapter in the book...
@scatteredgrapes8007 My book on FSA is called 'Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed'. On Amazon internationally and other major online retailers.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thank you.
As the scapegoated empath, I have fallen into this exact trap. Even after endless research on narcissism. I see so many have just given up on finding a healthy relationship, but I'm not giving up. Not because I'm lonely, or desperate, or looking to repair childhood trauma, but because I am not going to allow past abuse to ruin my future. I have much love to give, and I will never give up seeking what I deserve: love, joy, laughter, intimacy, everything a healthy relationship will possess.
These mistakes just indicate to me where I need to make changes, meaning there's another lesson I needed to learn. I'm learning, and using it to move forward.
I'm fine living alone, but I refuse to accept it as my cross to bear because I can't "trust myself to make good decisions". Learning from the mistakes, and applying the knowledge while going FORWARD, is my goal.
I LOVE this - I hope everyone here takes the time to read it. YES, YES, and YES!!!
Before I knew what narcissism was, I noticed my husband would observe people we were with, then mimic their ways. Their values became his values. Their sense of humour became his sense of humour. He told me he didn't care for chocolate chip cookies. Then a visitor brought some and my husband said "Oh! My favourite!!" I later asked him if he even had a personality of his own. He replied he would 'go along to get along" but this went way past that. (Thank you for the cookies...my wife loves that flavor' would have both worked and been true. Depending on who his crowd was at the time, his behaviour and fashion sense could change dramatically. (I am now divorced).
A true chameleon...
I nowadays also understand what my sibling, the family golden child did to me trough my parents. Especially my father. The one he listened to. Its hard to forgive
One of the reasons I focus on the idea / concept / act of 'radical acceptance' versus 'forgiveness' with my clients, which is a more 'trauma-informed' approach.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse have wrote so much to my self. Memories. To be able see from distance and also to understand. Explaining the "scape goate" roll that you and others do have helped me so much. Some heavy weight of anger that have to come out. But I feel free today
I never got married because I shied away from people because I didn’t want anyone to see that ugly person my narcissistic father taught me that I was. My father is gone now and here I sit alone. I feel robbed of the privilege of having my own family.
A warm big hug for you 🤗 maybe you feel lonely but we are together in this (lots of u 's = US 😊). ❤
@adamflint2377 Your feelings are understandable. There are indeed many types of overlooked losses as related to survivors of this type of abuse. Thank you for taking the time to comment.
It was never you! And it’s not too late to still marry and maybe have a family. Best wishes to you!
I had a similar experience. I always kept to myself because I was told no one would want to be my friend and I was a misfit. Growing up alone and being told you are unlovable is very painful. I learned about Projective Identification and now I understand why this happened to me. The abuser is projecting their own feelings about themselves onto you. I still feel bad though and I can relate to what you are saying.
@@fancynancylucille I think being the scapegoat can be at the root of social anxiety, depression, alcohol and drug problems, maladaptive daydreaming and other mental health issues. The pain and loneliness would drive the scapegoated person to find an escape.
This is so true, I had 2 narc parents then had 2 kids with a malignant and her behaviour changed after about 4 years when I sold the house I owned and bought a new home with her on the mortgage. She was sleeping with a cocaine dealer. Also referred to psychiatrist for self harming, repeatedly smashing head into doors in front of children. She gave my children the scapegoat and golden child roles and the cycle continues. I had to go through courts to see children and she had drug and alcohol tests, heavy user of both over 6 month period. Social services are a disaster in Uk and described her as a loving caring mother and put many lies in there reports. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck it’s a duck. If its a narcissistic lying cheating manipulative self harming sex worker it’s a loving caring mother, apparently. I explained to them what she was a narcissist and showed her evidence. In the report I was criticised for talking about narcissism. Social workers I’ve encountered also highly manipulative. I’ve also had to cut ties with narc family. Smear campaigns on steroids. I had to leave town because extended family also full of narcs. Cousin hung himself because of them. 1 person against 10 plus narcs I didn’t stand a chance. Pure Evil and all a facade. It’s an Evil cult and if you ain’t Evil you’re not getting in, and if you dare pull back the veil and start pointing out their covert abusive tactics, the whole cult are gonna be gunning for you. My narc father would get so angry when I had the terminology for his behaviour and would say listen to him with his big words and my narc mother would say he thinks he knows everything. Family or no family, cull the lot of em.
Indeed, cult dynamics and narcissistic family dynamics are often very much the same - And this has been researched on, btw.
This is absolutely painful and I am proud of you for cutting everyone off. Eventually, smear campaigns never stop. But at some point, you stop caring because you can either care about the present, your life affairs and kids, or about how you are perceived by strangers who give no shits about you, they are just gossiping for entertainment over other people's suffering.
What you are doing is not easy, but it is the best thing you can do in such situation. Hang in there.
@@SamarElmaghraby- Thank you sweetheart
I am thankful for you. My mother was a violent psycho malignant narcissist. I am the family scapegoat. I was in a relationship with a malignant narcissist for a total of 7.5 years. She is a licensed practicing psychologist. I can’t even begin to describe the bewildering horrific journey through such a destructive house of mirrors!
You described my first husband to a T. I was 18 years old when I met him and married him 9 months later thinking I had met my Prince Charming. He used to proudly say that he was cocky but I was too young to realize this was not a good thing. We did remain together for 17 years and by the end I was an emotional wreck. He is still a skilled manipulator and has become very successful financially by using this skill set well. Most of my own family still thinks he's wonderful likely because people tend to want to be around wealthy people. I have gone the exact opposite way and tend to be skeptical of people who have a lot of money and prefer to be around the middle class of society. I am now married to a man who could not be more unlike my first husband and we are very happy together with no manipulation and no gas-lighting.
How wonderful that you eventually got your 'happy ending'!
Wow "preyed upon by your own family members" what a nugget at the end, lambs to the slaughter !
It’s the most heartbreaking thing to happen to you.
This is spot on and also speaks directly to behaviour of functional psychopaths (who are always high in Narcissism)
I will never date again. Fini.
I'm with you; I'd rather be alone than ever go through that again.
I LOVE this comment. Same goes for me and I’m really not interested. Once I went no contact and moved and came into my new environment I thought maybe I would try. Oh boy, the first individual who appeared was what Rebecca speaks of here. I told him I wasn’t interested - he said I’ll be patient. Totally didn’t hear what I said. I tested my theory- he flipped- I confronted. Nipped that in the bud and it reminded me that I don’t have to date and I can feel good about it ❤
I so relate 🙏🏼
Same!!! 😂😂😂
🙏🏼
This happened to me. I met 2 of these after my divorce. I remember looking into the first one’s eyes and I was absolutely terrified. It was the scariest thing I’ve ever seen. His eyes were empty… completely devoid of emotion… like black glass. It was as if he had no soul. I’ll never forget how terrifying those eyes were.
Once you see this, you never forget it...
Yep, my malignant narc husband turned abusive as we were walking to the car, after the wedding. He was disgusted that he'd had to go through with it and act loving to me. But, he asked ME to marry HIM, not the other way round.
How shocking that must have been for you.
I had another Insight this week. I just realized that I went from way to *trusting* to the total opposite of *not trusting* anybody, even myself at times. Thank you Rebecca for another great video.
That can definitely happen. I plan to do a video on that very thing at some point.
One of the first signs I can tell if a person is a malignant narcissist is they don't value my time. Another feature of a malignant narcissist that I've noticed is they are drawn to the color black. If you're into adult coloring and you happen to be coloring with them they're going to use the color black far more than the average person.
12:39 sadly I wanted a "happy ending" and was rushed into marriage. I was wrong, had to escape with my life. Lesson learned, never again. Thank you for publishing this truth 🙏🎯
I remember the day after I married, she came into the part of the house where I was and I looked at her overall demeanor, the look on her face, and thought to myself "Where did so-and-so go?" (I always had good intuition, but sadly often did not pay attention or respect what it was telling me) Of course, I was too young and naive to know what it all meant at the time or the implications, but boy, were there ever implications. Good video and info. Thanks. In my experience, I have found that being an empath and having been with a likely NPD person and surviving, is like being a recovering alcoholic. One must keep sharp, up-to-date, disciplined, and well-informed into perpetuity to avoid missteps in the future. The cost of not doing so will be prohibitive.
THIS: "In my experience, I have found that being an empath and having been with a likely NPD person and surviving, is like being a recovering alcoholic. One must keep sharp, up-to-date, disciplined, and well-informed into perpetuity to avoid missteps in the future. The cost of not doing so will be prohibitive." - Thank you, that says it all.
Thank you for addressing the puffed up narcissist, so many people get it wrong and then think their situation don’t match up with family FSA. Lots of information on this RUclips but many get it wrong. A narcissistic does not have to fit the dictionary definition of one. They can be much more skilled then that.
The malignant ones are the most dangerous. And, in my experience, they come in all kinds of shapes and forms and personalities. Looking back, at my unfortunate many entanglements, one very early tell will be little tiny boundary breaks.
Agreed.
Like a velociraptor testing the fence....😔
I agree. The malignant narcissist/sociopath/ psychopath. People cannot possibly phantom what they are capable of doing. And if you finally TRY to tell ANYONE they think you’re insane and in my case many have alienated me-- for reaching out for help and telling the truth. Many just don’t want to get involved even though you may have helped them time and again in every way. And the effect on your health is extremely real and dangerous.
Mimicry is a key component of psychopathy. They’re not feigning or mirroring the way solely Narcissistic people can. they literally mimic.
I watched a male psychopath literally mimic a females display of empathy in a meeting once, by also mimicking her female voice while using her words, because he had no idea how it should sound in his own voice and it was creepy as hell. He had no insight into how wrong it looked.
He quickly changed the subject to something else when he noticed it hadn’t landed for him the way it had for her , and she looked super uncomfortable but confused too. They usually collect these “soundbites” for use elsewhere but he did it within the same conversation.
Proper Stephen king moment.
This hits home on so many levels. Please keep these videos coming.
I certainly will!
I really appreciate your videos, Rebecca! 😊🙏💕✌️☮️! They are helping me recover. I wish there were more therapists like you available who understand Narcissism. I'm not believed by my maternal side of family. Even my siblings. My mother is a narcissist. They all support her. Alot of them don't bother to ask me my side of the story. I have no reason to lie about abuse.
Thank you for letting me know my videos are helpful. No, it is rare to be asked about what actually happened to you in these types of scapegoating families; and if you do get asked and share the truth, you are unlikely to be believed. I explain why this is so in many of my videos here and in my book, 'Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed', which you may want to check out sometime.
I married a covert narc who drained the life out of me and I had to be responsible for everything and then I was blamed and scapegoated. He cheated on me throughout the marriage and I didn't know it for a years, as he gaslighted me constantly. He was also in front of the church playing an instrument, I had no idea that my family was aligned with him andhe initiated divorce, And locked me out of all the accounts with the idea that I would come crawling back to him.
After threatening me and kicking me out of the house!! I got a restraining order that he was able to violate it several times.
He cheated on me, threatening to kill me and tried to kill our dogs. My family backed him up in the end and even though family members were on the restraining order they still backed him up.
These people are such huge betrayers and I've always invested a lot of care and energy into my family of origin and what I get back is betrayals,, slander, mobbing, bullying, and trauma.😢
Great and realistic video Rebecca! I believe that family scapegoats especially need to be prepared for the dark reality of malignant narcissists and sociopaths. My parents were a combination of malignant and covert narcissism. They both played tag team for setting me up with marriage to a sociopath. I had broke up with the guy in my teenage years. The covert sat on the floor and bawled while the malignant sat and glared at me. Highly traumatized you can imagine I fell into the fawn response and unknowingly married a sociopath. It was a disaster! I have lost all respect for my self-serving parents.
Yes, that 'fawn' response can lead adult survivors of FSA to many a dangerous people - and places. I hope you made it safely out and through!
This triggers a thought that some parents want to look good … and having your kids marry is a bonus … its all about them looking good. And if things don’t work out, its your fault even if their own marriage was a fakery. Exploring this further is a whole chapter.
@@roomg03 Thank you for your insight. Yes, it is all about looking good and covering up their fake marriage (saturated in violence, alcoholism, and religiosity). When a therapist asked my mother if she got help for our family suffering because of the malignant narcissist, she said "What would people think?" Both parents have personality disorders, take no responsibility for their lives and, instead, blame. At it's worst, I'm now told I "ruined" their lives and that I'm the narcissist. All they do is scapegoat until the day they die. It is a "whole chapter" of exploring and radically accepting this incredible dysfunction to finally have clarity, let go, and move on.
This is so sad for the child that is extremely abused so abused that there loyalty to the abusive parents to prove there love and goodness to the abusive parents that continue to abuse them life long. Like the abused child never grows up, stuck in a trap. I watched my brother be abused since childhood, and mentally, emotionally abused as growing up. Whoever was good to him good people were the bad ones, and bad people were to be loyal too. So bazaar. He couldn't take any criticism at all, he felt like such a failure. I watched him turn into my Dad, split personality. Very scary and abusive towards his mate, & me his sister if ever he felt attacked, or just to communicate to him to stop his behavior that starts to get abusive, he would split into my dad.) I tried to tell him. He didn't listen to me, because I was the Scapegoat he was told that I was a Lier. (I think he was a Scapegoat too) I felt so sad for him, he never broke away. He died abused himself with alcohol. He could never figure it out.
@@deborahlynnelentz6432 very sad. Surviving is tough business
I always thought the DSM did not give an adequate explanation of personality disorders within the dark triad. Being the family scapegoat, I married a " monster" also..just as you say. Although, divorced many years ago, the sons, I brought up singlehanded, have turned into monsters also. I have had to move away from their physical and psychological abuse . Sometimes, no matter what you do, that malignant narcissism and sociopathic personality states are identified with past generations. Thankyou for your videos..they are like therapy.
You're welcome. It is a lot to endure, isn't it? Glad you're here.
It wasn’t until recently I stumbled upon your channel. Glad I did , excellent work Rebecca. I’m glad you ( and others) are bringing to light that not all narcs are overt. and covert, especially malignant covert narcissists are hard to spot and super destructive. For years while trying to figure what the hell Was wrong with my parents I couldn’t figure it out because their behavior didn’t fit what I thought “ a narcissist “ was. I’m 51, there wasn’t the resources like the internet to figure it out.( now I figured it out) I hope the generation that is now well informed about the abuse that happened to them Wasn’t there fault and are better able to deal with all the destruction it caused earlier in life and start healing much sooner. The longer you don’t deal with it, the worse it gets.
I appreciate your comment and glad you found my channel!
I realise a lot…… however, I also don’t want any “ justice/ hurt” for the role I was given. I really prayed that I am kind and forgiving. I scream/ cry/ punch 🤜 pillows especially but I refuse to be like them. ✌️
The thing I have learned to watch for is the guy who is trying too hard to dig a vulnerability out of me. Example: Though I was actually doing fine , the guy said " there's something sad about you...talk to me about it" To me, that felt very incongruity, because I'm very much in touch with my emotions. It's as if he was rolling the dice that his projection was going to elicit communication from me that would paint him as the empathetic listener.
Since it wasn't my first rodeo, his ploy didn't work. And as his love bombing rapidly escalated within a couple of days...even before the 1st date, I stood up to it. I told him it was too soon for pet names and goodnight kiss texts. He took off and canceled the first date.
Wow! I dodged that bullet!
But I'm telling you, I wish I didn't have to fall prey to the ones in the past.
And yes, I'm a Survivor of domestic violence and alcoholic narcissistic abuse and family scapegoating abuse.
So yes, for a long time I didn't understand how I kept ending up with those kinds of guys.
Now, I'm more careful about sharing the tougher parts of my history at the very beginning in order to protect me for the ones looking for someone who is vulnerable.
And yes, I'm open and honest with people I've had enough time to screen.
You are saying exactly what I say to my FSA adult survivor clients in regard to forming new connections - including romantic. "To be cautious - like a fox walking over ice." (Tao Te Ching). Yes, set those boundaries early; it serves as a wonderful, natural deterrent to those who are seeking 'prey'.
You are 100% Correct. Right down to the monster coming out on my wedding day-DURING the wedding. My daughter is the same. The abuse and torture she’s out me through is horrific but to watch her with her 4 young children. The oldest, 11 now is very smart and understands that if she doesn’t kiss her mother’s butt and be her best friend (which I think is sick starting at 7 years old) she will be treated like her now 9 year old brother (the scapegoat) who has been cutting himself for at least a year and has been diagnosed major depressive , generalized anxiety and anger management issues. The 5 year old has been punching himself in the head and face since he’s 3 saying he’s stupid. The babies don’t have a chance in this world. None of them do and I couldn’t do a thing to help them. She lies to the psychiatrist and 2 psychologists for my grandson and psychologist for my granddaughter. Police, judges, everyone and she gets away with it. I’m crazy. My heart is broken. People could never imagine in their wildest dreams. Thank you for addressing this. Not many do at least not in the way you spelled it out right to the point.
You're welcome. I had a similar experience on my wedding day decades ago. Right before I was to walk down the aisle. I didn't understand it then but realize today it was traumatizing and horrific and I was dissociated throughout the entire wedding ceremony because of it. Meaning, I can relate!
Dear Dr Mandeville, could you make a video on what to look for in a therapist and also what to get clarified with them in the first session? Until now I haven’t had one therapist for instance who would have given me advice like you do in these videos, or told me about similar experiences to mine from other patients (without naming names of course) so that I felt less of an exception. I haven’t met one therapist who really interacted with me at all. They were empathetic walls, and even the empathy was so robotic, like, always the same response, like “That must have been hurtful” or “I can see your sadness.” - And after that NOTHING. They phrased it like we are supposed to phrase our words with narcissists, like, “I’m sorry you feel that way./ I’m sorry you got that impression from your mother.” I felt alone and just like some paying object.
There never was a red thread either. Each session started with “How are you today?” and then I had to find a connection between my sadness of that day to my childhood. And again, after that: “I’m sorry you felt/now feel that way.” That was all. I can connect the dots, I also recognize when I’m sad or angry etc. But what do I do with those emotions after the cognitive “work” (connecting the dots). There was always an awkward silence afterwards from the side of my therapists. That was it, they had acted their part and now I was supposed to go on talking/speculating/talking more (with the same response) and then the session was over and that was it. I have never felt more helpless than after a therapy session, and I have tried so many therapists now, one of them was even the head of the clinic here. He was especially distant and mechanical, like, I had to fill in a form, always the same, to see where I had manoeuvred myself in the interaction with someone. And then I had to find a better action in order to find myself in a better position, concerning that person. Every single time I had to do that form. Every single time I found a “better” way but the emotions stayed. He didn’t really want to know much about my family either, said that wasn’t really important. The next therapist always went back to my family but stopped there. No exchange of thoughts, no exchange of ideas, no suggestions how to deal with upcoming emotions. Just a professional smile with a velvety voice that never changed, never any emphasis, it was a velvet robot 🤖. They are all robots.
Or the opposite, I had that too. I had two female therapists who blamed me for still being sad or feeling scared. One even made scathing comments when I suddenly started hyperventilating because I had a panic attack.
I am very saddened to hear of your experiences, when you were hoping for so much more. Great suggestion. Yes, coincidentally, I plan to do a chapter on this in my next book, which will be on what I named (via recent research efforts) 'family scapegoat trauma' (FST). I'll try to get something out on video before the book is released (which I hope will be next year). I do address this somewhat in my first book on FSA (Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed) and in Step 4 of this article here: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/2021/09/08/10-self-care-tips-for-adult-survivors-of-family-scapegoating/
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thank you 😊! And I’m looking forward to your next book!
This is very very important!! Fortunately learning about covert narcissism alerted me to the less stereotypical types.
What’s scary is how slow and how long it can take to see their true colours, but I think that’s more my blindness than their skill. Bottom line is ‘how do they make you feel?’ and keep asking that..
and watch for the flip from empathising, to trying to one-up you, dominate you, show you they are superior..
When you are vulnerable to the bait, the only hope you have of not getting devastated by these people, is to go slowly. And also assume they are a predator until proven otherwise.
I have found therapy amazing, except in one fatal aspect. The neutral position my therapist takes.. that it could be 50-50 that the person is predatory (or really more leaning towards everyone ultimately is just a wounded child..) destabilises me.
I think anyone that’s been through serious abuse or scapegoating can safely assume that the people who seek them out, are more than likely predators.
If only I had taken that stance years ago, I would have saved myself a tonne more of serious abuse.
But no the feedback was always that I, as a traumatized person, was projecting threat and danger where there was none.
I’m so angry about that.
What I noticed with my latest attempt at friendship, is that she asked me my opinion about everything and everyone. I noticed how she would watch my face when she asked me questions, esp more personal questions.. it all made me feel seen and heard.
But then the one-upmanship began. The devaluing of men who were attracted to me, etc
In hindsight they were mirroring me to get me to open up, claiming to have similar problems though the evidence was the opposite, they were gathering information about me.. the only clue I had was that the empathy felt exaggerated, and something felt off..
I can totally relate! I'm a very empathic person and my gut has always been 100% but I'm susceptible to gas lighting, And I have rescue tendencies for wounded people. The swine test of saying no to something with a narcissistic person and watching their rage or contempt.... Can come up later in the relationship. They seem to know when they've got you hooked because being a faithful and loyal person, I have given way too much investment, way too many chances to people friends or romantic partners... Because this is what I have done with my family of origin because it has been devastating facing how truly evil and betraying they all are!
I've been able to finally see the flags earlier but what really sucks is I currently do not have any safe people in my life! I've even gone to 12 step groups and they can be rife with narcissists, too! They want to control the group, especially indoctrination newcomers! There is flexibility in who tries to take leadership and dominant people take liberties! A group isn't supposed to really have a facilitator in charge.
And I'm a truth teller and although diplomatic, people who are not authentic and who are there to garner supply tend to Slander me and Turn other people in the group against me! They are really uncomfortable with authenticity and that their true motives might be revealed because there's something to contrast it with!
@annastone5624 So much more awareness is needed in the Mental Health community regarding malignant narcissism. We are in sociopathic territory here. The abuse can be conscious, unintentional, and most cruel. The cause does not matter: Victims / Survivors experiences and attendant pain must be taken seriously - and validated.
@callie4112 I totally relate to their reactions to authenticity. Personally I completely avoid groups and I carefully test one to one relationships. I’m starting to feel safe for the first time in my life. I still feel super unsafe, but I feel mapping this stuff out, means we finally have a true map of reality and won’t get so easily blind sided.,
@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse yes!! The cause does not matter.
Speculating on the cause, to the person who is being wounded, is a strawman fallacy.. used by abusers and enablers, so it’s particularly painful. The victim ends up apologising for criticising their abusers who are supposedly so ‘wounded’ and by implication ‘in pain’
Thank you Rebecca. It helps to hear I really didn't get affection, and really did need it. And maybe that it was not flaws that led me to seek it out. It was hard growing up disliked.
Indeed, especially when one feels disliked by their own family.
These malignant types you described, I’ve had as “life coaches” and therapists. One of them, felt they were a narcissistic abuse specialist, with no certification. After all the content I have studied, and applied, I missed it, I missed all the signs. It all started to add up, fortunately after a few sessions, I realized the grave mistake I had made. I also made the mistake of trusting way to soon, granted I made the assumption that going to someone for help was a safe thing to do. Especially with the last therapist I had. The hardest thing I am constantly trying to sort out, is how much of this broken people picker thing is my fault, how much is it there are just bad people out there? What do you do about that? I mean everybody is going through something. I’ve been in trauma therapy for years, all it’s done is speed up how fast I recognize these people. Not put it to bed and meet good people? Or is that more trauma thinking bullshit? I appreciate you putting this out there for me to find.
I've had an idea to do a video on exactly what you address (and ask about) here in your comment. I will do my best to get one out within the next month or two. It would be a good follow up video to this one here, in fact. Important questions. An I'm glad you're here.
Your broken people picker is not your fault! What happened to us growing up, that foundation of being gaslit and manipulated By scapegoating families laid down patterns that are not our fault. But it is our responsibility to recognize the patterns and work on them, if we want change.❤
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse thank you, I look forward to it.
Perhaps through awareness we can take the splinter out - change direction enough not to keep going back. meeting the right people and / or replacing people with others we might find like in Alanon recovery gives me hope
My Malignant NARC mother has Sadistically Catholic tendancies that over 6 decades of time has never raged or freaked out. All three of my "$pecial Need$" Authoritarian Dictator's derive their Harmony from taking turns to cause harm upon me.
My 60th birthday is this year and being born on a Friday of the 13th day of the month necessities that im the problem & as such must be controlled.
You describe narcissistic family dynamics well. Very sorry you have had to endure such treatment.
It's sad that a child's experience in school doesn't include mandatory "Health" related topics that address Narcissism every other year starting 2cd-4th grade.
This so resonates with me. In fact I did it twice with the same person😢. Picking up the pieces now. Third time will NOT be a charm. Rebecca, You are amazing. Thank you for arming us with this knowledge and education to understand and have awareness for what happened and why..and what to watch out for so we can avoid it in the future.
You're welcome, Katie!
I agree with this 💯 percent. It’s so true!! I am so happy I found your channel. Thank you!! ❤ It is so true, to go slowwwww when getting to know someone!!!! 😂
Glad you're here - and you're welcome!
OMG my husband and his friend… I saw the same things… and the husband turned out to be a very angry and abusive person who is stalking me to this day… from 40 years ago…and not in a good way…Doctor this is a real breakthrough for me. Going to what is familiar… 😳
Exciting to hear you are having these new and profound awarenesses. It is so often the case that "we go to what we know," based on our childhood conditioning. But we need not keep repeating these damaging patterns. Change is possible. Linking you to a list or resources I put together in case you see something of interest: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
Yep. "We go to what we know..." We are conditioned to seek out the familiar and/or are re-creating our past unconsciously in order to have some kind of 'repair' experience to heal our childhood wounds - which rarely occurs.
1) Dont value your time
2) conversations are always about themselves
3) rude to service people - waitstaff, retail clerks etc
4) fantasize that they belong among celebrities
5) love bomb -> you are the best best best!
6) rageful discard leavinv you confused
7) project on to you their shame
8) good at alienating you from family and friends
Run away!
@OnlyOneName wow - sorry to hear this...maybe legal action?
Unfortunately when you have some issues within your family these evil people will use it against you and get advantage of it .I find these video really helpful
Good to hear. You may also want to read my introductory book on this form of abuse (FSA), 'Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed'.
Very useful video because this other presentation of narcissism is rarely described. I had terrible relationships in my late teens/early 20s but I didn't feel I had the right to say no to these abusive men. I'm sure there were lots of nice, stable boys/men interested in dating me but I found them boring and couldn't relate to them - I had no mental blueprint for a healthy relationship and was actually scared of/actively avoided it. By my mid 20s I decided that, if I didn't have the skill base to avoid abusive partners, I would just avoid all partners! However, therapy in my late 20s and lots of work on myself, I finally met my now husband. I deliberately spent ages getting to know him, testing his honesty/trustworthiness/kindness, etc. Somehow it's now 21 years later and we're still doing ok. We're not perfect but I think I got it reasonably right in the end!
Inspiring story - thank you for sharing this part of your FSA recovery journey with us.
Spot On !! Brilliant video....explained so much I could relate to and why I keep gravitating to the same type of N as my malignant N father. Thanks for your consistent great work here on RUclips!!
You're welcome - I'm glad you found a helpful "nugget" in this one!
15:58 True! We need to take it slow. People will show us who they are in time. Thank you for making this video. I watched many videos on this subject and many are repeating clichés about narcs (some channels are amazing though). Few bits here, few bits there and the full picture made sense, but I never got the full description of those types. There are common characteristics, but not at the beginning. I can't recommend enough the power of slowing down when we meet new person. I finally learnt this at 42 and tried it this year. It saved me from having another disaster in my life!!! For context, it was a relative I knew when we were children. He contacted me on Fb. It all was going too fast (the hunger to have some family connection showed on both sides). I also sensed something that was causing me stress because of him, but I couldn't put my finger on it. I told myself to slow down as he may be my relative, but I don't really know anything about him. It was a good call! The connection lasted 3 weeks. 4 video chats and most issues were obvious. Slowing down gives you most info about new person very quickly in most situations. I guess, that is my little success story - for a change :D
I'd say this most certainly is an FSA recovery success story - and a most profound one! This is called WISDOM. It sounds like you are now developing a critical aspect of this ability to 'listen within': Discernment. Thank you for this valuable comment that I hope many will take the time to read, and for letting me know you found this video helpful.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thank you!
Mother was the narc, I was the scapegoat. Cast as a servant to my sibling, she didn't even use my name until my 20's. My sibling got away with everything while I got the blame. Every achievement I had was belittled or not to be mentioned. I left at 17 and never went back. My brother has grown into an entitled do-nothing and because he has developed health issues due to self neglect I am expected to care for him when retirement happens. She continues to believe she controls him to this day when he is actually manipulating her. Life is a lesson and that contemptuous neglect has been a hard one to learn.
Amen Ditto
It's definitely a different breed. Great video!
It really is - Thank you!
110% out 100%! Absolutely, astounding!
Forty years of every single therapeutic, Spiritual path... Until... 👇
Even, years of ACA hasn't hit this Bullseye.
Read many books on your suggested list over the decades...
Okay, dearest walking miracle - Rebecca... Your practice is packed, for those of us in NEED - where are those trained in this area?
Includes:
I wish, pray I could say what I need to…
my searching for trained a specialist FS & CPSD since covid has been exhausted
🕊️🙏
Your kind words are much appreciated. A few months ago I started a new single session consultation service to get people on the right track and help with tailored resources. More information here: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/scapegoat-recovery-consultations/
I am so proud that I taught myself a lot of this through journaling and validating my experience. Going to counselling too, but counselling never spells it out for me because that’s a different process. But it’s fantastic to hear you spell it out.
Ive particularly had females who do this..
fast-friending.. oh you’re my soul-sister..super friendly etc I’ve just spent 3 years (!!) getting sucked in and journaling about my feelings about one girl and I still think if I met her now I’d be in danger of getting sucked in. But I haven’t.. I particularly noticed moments she’d copy me ( going overboard with the mirroring) she’d claim values I’d expressed but clearly weren’t hers, she’d express empathy for the most bizarre people that didn’t need it as she was just trying to perform it, and doing it badly.
But most of all I noticed a feeling of hollowness, the surface was just great, but this weird underlying hollowness.. I think that’s the shortcut if you can access it. That and spotting the first devaluations and aggressions. They were the two things that helped me with the cognitive dissonance the most.
Important realizations. Yes, it is wise to be wary of what I call "Insta-Friendships" (!)
That was really good advice. And the reason why it was good, is because you explain how people get involved with those bad people and it's because of their childhood and that they're too trusting and you give good advice on that that other people don't give they just explain the narcissist but they don't explain how people end up with narcissists. More videos on the type of people who fall for these narcissists and evil people is very helpful. Thank you!
I can testify to the statement that everything changes once you say I do. I was so entrenched in my pattern I did it more than once
This information is very useful. I have long thought the DSM was incomplete in its description of narcissism. As a scapegoat I had the impression l had a leg up on the golden child who continues to live in a state of denial as to the true nature of the narcissistic parent(s.) But scapegoats still have a deep-seated need for approval. We to know that we are completely valid even when we are alone.
Glad the video was helpful - And yes, a need for approval and high rejection sensitivity is understandably typical with most (not all) FSA adult survivors.
Excellent and wise words.
Thanks for listening.
I was married to two of these monsters. Completely destroyed me, and then it took over a decade to recover. I'm still not 100% and may never be.
Interestingly, my first spouse's toxic behavior resembled my father's and my second, my mother's. Both monsters, just with entirely different MOs. It's true that we gravitate toward what feels familiar when our trauma is unhealed.
Yes, we do often go to what we know, as I explain in this video. But now you know better (!)
Thank you so much Rebecca. This is super helpful 🙏🏻 blessings peace light & gratitude, Jen🙏🏻🤍🙏🏻
You're welcome, Jen!
Can you speak to what to do when your small child is scapegoating you? I wondered why I was so triggered by my 4 yo. I recently found out about the scapegoat role and definitely think that’s me. My child gives me angry looks when she’s displeased with me, which have me all in my feelings and I usually repress them and act with her the way I think a compassionate parent would. But even that is a false self, coming from a place of fear and anger. Would love to hear about parenting healthily when your child is hitting those sore spots of FSA in you 🙃
Fantastic idea. My list is very long now for subscriber questions so I'm running polls and letting community members vote on which ones to cover. But it is an excellent topic for me to address at some point.
Oh man! It's too late for me.
How, I wonder, would today be if...
• If even ONE of the therapists my mother sent me to (to find out what was wrong with me so they'd fix me) from 13yo... would have heard beyond her narrative of me and identified me as the family scapegoat/truth-teller/empath!
Oh!
• If my soul and psyche would have been rescued back then... with words of compassion, strategies of survival, validation of self-worth and belief in myself,
(maybe even foster care!)
• If I had been capable then - of not being convinced myself that it was me..and I didn't belong because I was unlovable.
(from my parents' manipulative brainwashing, shaming, blaming, absence of nurturing, v/m/p abuse,..all of it...and more!
• If I hadn't been such an adaptable, perfectly cooperative scapegoat.
So trained, so convinced, that I became a perfect target for the malignant narcissist who I was engaged to in a month!
This was back in the traditional day
and when he charmingly, romantically asked my father if he could take me as his wife,
"jokingly" my father replied:
"If you promise not to give her back".
I was 30! I'd been on my own since 20, and successful Advertising Exec in DC! 600+ miles from home!
What the fuck!?
For our wedding we filled over 80 rooms in a Victorian Era inn close to my hometown with 300 family and friends for a 3-day weekend. Payed for the wedding expenses alone, not traditionally by the brides family. Being I was 30, (an old-maid back then) this was a reason to celebrate...finally I was really loved by the man of my dreams...primarily a man my father and brother would find acceptable.
THE NIGHT BEFORE OUR VOWS
in the inn's private dining room, my husband unconsciously went to light a cigarette. Kind and meek, a lightly reminded him the dining room was non-smoking. No big deal...
But in front of my eyes this man transformed in a second.
"NOBODY tells me what to do. Especially not you!"
An unfamiliar threatening voice full of rage and hate and rejection.
That's the moment he showed his true being...
• If only I would have called off the wedding.
2 years later, he abandoned me, our baby daughter and 4 day old son. completely MIA for 25 years and counting.
I raised my daughter & son alone (at 40 I had a daughter "out of wedlock...another black checkmark) vowing to never trust myself to choose a man again)
With all my best efforts and intentions they were raised under the attachment parenting style by me alone. (NO support from family!) We lived in quaint rural poverty..but they knew they were loved every moment with no conflict, no broken spirit...(I broke the chain!) and at best provided for
humbly but stablely and with out want or need.
But my father's influence on them, his narrative of me...(depressing, no-self worth, broken, ruined, etc... has now been adopted by my daughters..i am again rejected by the ones I love more than life itself.
Validation again.
It's too late to be hopeful anymore..ill be 60 next month. They won't be celebrating with me.
At least, dare I say, my 25yo son loves me...at least.
Until I found you Rebecca, ( this weekend) I still believed my family and myself...how unworthy of love I must be.. everyone abandons me
But you have given me a view i never conceivedof...
BTW... i went no contact on Dec. 9th.
Thanks all you loving empathic beings for reading my story.
Love, ImaginarySusan
This is all new to me and is making so much sense - just bought your book on Amazon. I am 64, just broke up AGAIN with the same man who has been in my life for 29 years. Better late then never.
I hope you find my book helpful. I have a hunch you will. You may also want to subscribe to my FSA Education substack (free or paid) - more info’ here: familyscapegoathealing.substack.com/about
My younger sister was the scapegoat sadly. She suffered greatly as our dad is a narc. She recently moved in with a malignant man. He is 15 years older than her and domineering, rageful & controlling (just like our dad). He has money (unlike our dad). He shuts down restaurants so they can be the only ones dining, expensive vacations etc. She's now working for his company. He has her HOOKED & entangled. He at one time put a tracker on her car! We don't even know where she lives (she abruptly moved out & has become extremely secretive and distant). If my mom calls her, she rushes off the phone. It's as if she's disowned our family for this guy! No clue what to do since she's late 20's almost 30 & grown up technically.
Be yourself
courageous and understanding and lovingly express her precious worth to you.
Tell her how sorry you are for her abuse ( her pain..her yearning for acceptance and nurturing love...EVERYTHING you are now aware of that she witnessed her siblings enjoying while she was ignored.
Invite her
to be special to you...Don't be insincere, don't be inconsistent, don't let her down please,
include her
in your life, share your children, and dear friends, experiences, thoughts, happiness,
welcome her
Forever and whenever she's ready into your fold.
Protect her.
Stand up for her.. and refuse to hear repeat or accept comments that support the asshole family members
stand up against them for her. Let her know.
Have her back! (She succumbed long ago... her hopeful spirit accepted her fate and lost faith in hope. )
But her chest still feels permanently heavy and pained and her heart still beats even as it is broken.
(She fears it will abandon her too.. unexpectedly stopping finally against her secret silent will to hold on at least long enough to just feel what it feels like
- for even a moment, to not be forgotten. unnoticed. unremembered. To be thought of fondly,
remembered on her birthday, invited. included.
...anywhere, anytime.
To be held
when her pent-up despair and sorrow betray her.
When her head shouts louder of her insignificance
than the whisper of unfamiliar joy she hardly recognizes stirs slightly in her heart.
Thank her.
Appreciate her.
Protect her.
from doubt.
from fear.
from memories.
from loneliness, solidified in time.
Ask her
to forgive the you who hurt her.
to forget what you didn't know.
Have patience, be gentle.
(She's as strong and fragile the an ornament of spun glass.
Remind her YOUR LOVE is forever
it won't go away.
I know that's quite alot.
It just my own dreams really.
The things I myself desperately yearned for ... still.
As a forever-scape-goat..
Bless you
Are you really from Morocco? I've made a friend there ... from 10 years ago now... im coming there soon to visit...maybe even to run away..far away from my "ex" family. Maybe we will know each other and meet someday!?
...such a scapegoat I am. Always trying to make connections.
One of my Sisters is very helpful...I mean she does a lot for others...but...she is so nice.... that I fall in that trapp over and over again...
My malignant narcissist is 88 and shows no sign of dying despite poor health. She ruined my life. I avoid narcs because I avoid people
Wow..it happened on my wedding ,ignored ,no s*x , no love and attention and I have been ignored by him since, I stopped wanting to be intimate with him because he didn't want to be intimate with me ,so cold , used my kids against me ,has lots of supply and does triangulation with my own family , I was a child scapegoat and ignored so it chilled me when you said , the mirroring. I desperately needed it all my life for someone to see me and then I married someone who can't, I struggled with health issues and severe depression , now I do nothing but sit in the house day after day ,I feel stuck with him because I'm 61 and tired .Thank you so much ❤
So very sorry to hear this. Linking you to a list of resources I put together for FSA adult survivors in case you see something of interest:
@lenat7198
I have a dream: spiritual acknowledgement. The psyche as the symptom, the spiritual as the cause.
Thank you, Rebecca.
God bless you and your family.
A beautiful dream. Thank you for the blessing.
Narcissists are great actors they have a complex, what they show on the outside isn’t how they are inside . They are like hounds they can sniff and smell your weaknesses and then they come in manipulate validate you and then abuse you .
Worse, they typically believe their own act.
As the daughter of a malignant narc father I only recognized the mirroring in the end before I went no contact. It was creepy.
That radar they seem to have comes with a lot of staring at the target and an insistence for prolonged eye contact regardless of whether it's a romantic or platonic situation. It's super hard to describe and warn others (like our children) because it's hard understand how underhanded the tactics are. Went no contact for good to stop it. Thank you, Rebecca for delving into these types. I feel heard.
I'm glad you do. Now you are making me think of someone I once dated many years ago who did that same kind of stare...It eventually ended with me having to get a restraining order (!)
Oof, glad you handled it! 💛@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse
Dominance staring. To establish dominance
Yes!!! I was questioned recently by someone as to why i didnt make much eye contact when we met.... This was a male coworker. i never trusted him then and still don't though we are still "friends". The eye contact dominance is a real thing!
Demonic control.
Thank you. I can’t afford a therapist co pay!
Gosh, ur specialty 😭🙏🙌🏻♥️
They go to their graves with no remorse for what they did.
You should see the letter my biological mother wrote me, blaming everybody and everything else for the things SHE DID.
I hate that nonsense. Everyone else MADE her do it. Everything else FORCED her hand.
I can't stand to even look at them while they're playing the "poor little me" garbage.
She did something that altered my life forever. She also refused to look at me when I mentioned it in-person.
I used to be in professional acting. She made no gestures that indicate remorse. She was annoyed and wanted me to leave.
Indeed, the position of family members who scapegoat can be intractable. Very sorry you had to endure such (traumatic?) invalidation.
Narcissist can be very SEDUCTIVE 😮.
When these people work with children like child protective services it's disgusting we need to vett these people BETTER they're ruining already traumatized families.
Vetting - and far more education and training - is needed on these forms of 'invisible' abuse - particularly family scapegoating abuse.
Thank you. Attempting to learn and develop more skills to protect myself.
Good to hear - and you're welcome!
I think the trait is called "self-sacrificing self enhancement", with a related subject being altruistic narcissism. I learned about the trait from a self assessment called the PNI (pathological narcissism inventory).
Yes, indeed. And I plan to do a dedicated video on exactly this, including the PNI!
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse very cool, looking forward to watching. I took the self-assessment and scored highly on the vulnerable narcissistic traits side. Having been scapegoated by my covert NPD mom this freaked me out. After reading through the abstract (but without access to the full paper >:0 ) I interpreted my results as being consistent with a borderline personality structure because of lower than average exploitative and self-sacrificing self enhancing traits. I'm still undiagnosed with BPD (do have clinical diagnosis of CPTSD) but am virtually certain that I have it and that I inherited the genetic component from my father. None of the men on my father's side can tolerate stress. It creates a lot of cognitive dissonance knowing that I may misinterpret neutral cues as negative, but also knowing that I was scapegoated and misunderstood. Not seeking support from you or anything as I'm in an awesome IOP program right now, but thought it might be good to mention that if a viewer takes the PNI and comes back with vulnerable narcissistic traits that doesn't necessarily mean they therefore have NPD. Thank you for your videos and research!
You're most welcome. I've been conversing with another subscriber on the need for better categories and criteria in the DSM when it comes to NPD. Do you have any thoughts on that, given how you view your intrapsychic dynamics?
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Unfortunately I don't have a full copy of the DSM-5 so can't make a truly informed comment. I'd imagine there are all sorts of differentiating factors, comorbid conditions, etc. which complicate diagnosis.
While I don't necessarily disagree with the 9 traits listed in dsm-5, I do believe the categorical system of traits is not a rich enough way to capture the nuances of NPD and that a person with BPD could be confused with covert NPD easily if factors like stability of identiy or self-sabotaging behaviors are not taken into account.
I personally like the idea of a multi-dimensional model with Cluster-B being classed as a wide variety of maladaptive post traumatic stress responses. Improved diagnostics would help clinicians better individualize care based on these maladaptive responses/traits. Just my two cents as a patient of course!
My brother and my son are definitely malignant narcissists. My mother, a dark empath. All the flying monkeys and the smear.
My life has been hard as I am my birth family's scapegoat. I am No Contact currently. AND I won't go back.
So sorry to hear this. Linking you to a list of resources I put together for FSA adult survivors in case something their catches your eye: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
Thank you!
You're welcome!
Thank you! I don't see much information on this topic. After narrowly escaping someone who I believe to be a covert malignant narcissist, I learned that they can pretend to be very caring, but like you said, there is a hollowness there. His mask came off when I went no contact. They are dangerous! Please be safe out there.
Dear Rebecca,
Just to say here- after reading your great suggestions here that- I HAVE found myself a Trauma Informed Therapist and she is brilliant! 😊
Thanks for sharing - such wonderful news!
These weekly videos are so helpful! I’ve recently gone no contact with my entire family. Could you dive deeper into what happens to the family system when the scapegoat goes no contact? It’s been one of the most difficult experiences for me (a host of feelings…grief, sadness, anger, relief, justification, etc.). Would really appreciate more resources and information on this topic! Thanks Rebecca!
I did address it somewhat in this video but it is on the narcissistic family system. See what you think - some of your issues are addressed there: ruclips.net/video/eRlLWzpALu4/видео.html
Yes, I watched this video a few months ago and it was very helpful!! Thank you for posting content on this subject.
My family of origin is ruled by a narcissistic mother. So it’s exactly on par with what I needed to learn more about.
Still, I often wonder how dynamics in the family change overtime when the family scapegoat is gone/free. No contact is about self respect, protection, and preservation for the scapegoat but it’s usually the last resort and often not what the scapegoat wishes for or wants to happen - most people can’t understand how anyone can cut ties with their entire family but it’s usually the result of unimaginable abuse for many, many years. It’s tough to explain to most outsiders - they cannot contemplate or understand the gravity of the situation.
I am searching for more resources as I go through this difficult journey of no contact and hopefully heal from deep family trauma/wounds. Thank you for all you do to help!!💕
I do have a page on resources that have helped my clients on my website in the menu at scapegoatrecovery.com.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thank you!!🩷🩷🩷
This is my story. 💔
Oh gosh. Absolutely! I was looking for a healing relationship. So I over trusted. What I got was a malignant narcissist. My drug addicted father was absent. This guy was so smooth. He would sit in the front row of church lovingly rubbing the shoulders of his little girl and boy. I thought “ what a wonderful dad”! We went on picnics and for outings every weekend. The fun ended the day we got home from the honeymoon. The signs were there of course but they were so at odds with all the wonderful attributes he displayed that I discounted my instincts.
So very sorry; we FSA adult survivors can be very vulnerable to predatory people, especially when young; I plan to do a video on this at some point. I went through this myself, btw.
That would be great! I learned hard truths from that experience and i see yellow flags and heed then now. Learning to trust again is another story. id love to hear yours!
"Are you my mother" thats how i feel
Tks Rebecca this week's video is very helpful cos I'm slowly getting back out in the world & using my intuition as guidance & I must say it's hard.
I'm meeting a lot of fixers & rescuers at my support groups & I find that they have cognitive empathy with no feeling that really scares me cos the leading questions are not for my benefit & could be a thrill for their sadistic fueling.
I'm getting stronger every week & don't engage in their thrill seeking but I worry for others who are open books. Is it wise for me to keep going to these meetings? I'm thinking I may get Scapegoat ed again cos I'm a threat to their supply ?
Hard to say, but it may be wise to look for support groups that feel healthier to you!
Tks Rebecca a healthier environment is what I need 😊 I've noticed myself zoning out when I get home a familiar feeling of dissociation & drained the next day. It's as you say we unconsciously go to what we know 😨 I've learned the reason why birds of a feather flock together & although I got to improve my social skills it's not the method of peer support that I was looking for 👎
Thank God! I stopped dating over 20 years ago. My nursing profession and faith fills my need for connection. I believe my mother is a malignant narcissist. Nobody would believe it.
Often the case, unfortunately. Particularly if the narcissism is covert.
Hello, it's me again, and I'm 😮 at one of your videos.
For many years, i have wondered what was wrong with my father, but nothing ever really fit, until now. Extremely intelligent, very productive, and stable employment, yet it was all a veneer.
i apparently need to do some more reading.
You might want to read my article here: familyscapegoathealing.substack.com/p/understanding-malignant-narcissism? / My resource list is here. familyscapegoathealing.substack.com/p/resources
The type of abuse that I experienced as a child built my foundational identity so it’s difficult to change my mindset to “normal “
Not sure there really is a 'normal'...but I understand and appreciate your point.
Thank you so very much! Answer to very many prayers! I say that sincerely.
Sincerely Grateful, HB
Glad to help! You may also want to read my book on this form of abuse, 'Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed'. Many find it helpful.
The malignant ex husband has been with the new woman since 2021. The seem to be going stronger than ever. I suspect she’s the same as he is as they are long distance. He and I started long distance so I missed a lot of cues that you’d get face to face. I’d avoid long distance dating like the plague. The dating apps are full of them, I’m told. I’m too scared to ever date again.
Good point about the possible perils of online / distance dating. Thank you.
Agree ! Very interesting content!
Could be anywhere…
Could be a new health care provider…
Nailed it!
Thank you!
Your videos are amazing! Thank you❤
You're so welcome - thanks for watching!
Most definitely
I’m just adding a comment to remind you to post the follow-up video, with the signs of malignant narcissism. I just discovered your content, & am newly subscribed. Thank you for sharing your content (not everyone can afford access to therapy, & although these videos are not a supplement, they can sure be helpful). 🙏
Most of my activity is on my Substack now - Here's an article on malignant narcissism that I recently posted there: familyscapegoathealing.substack.com/p/understanding-malignant-narcissism. You may want to subscribe to my Substack Newsletter as well (free - paid subscribers can access private community features): familyscapegoathealing.substack.com/about
I've had an employer a year ago who has gotten a job in his wife's "company", she's doing Ergotheraphy, working even with Borderlines and he does NLP. Only a few months before starting work with them (I worked in their house) I learned about my mother and my Ex being "covert" Narcissists, so this employer was indeed the first Narcissist of this type I had to deal with outside my private life and I saw everything in how he mistreated me and his wife. After one year he got me fired by her. I was just tol stubborn and refused to meet his absolutely crazy expectations and I demasked several of his behaviours. The worst is, that his wife feels like all is good and she even adviced one of her employees on her bad relationship, while I witnessed her husband insulting her, giving back handed compliments, treating the kids badly and gkving her issues and hissing at her.
Once you see it, you can't unsee it. Glad you got out of there.