F-22 vs Rafale HUD Footage Breakdown with Gonky
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- Опубликовано: 5 июн 2024
- Fighter pilots break down the 2009 Rafale HUD footage gunning an F-22 with Gonky. Sign up for the Folds of Honor Fight For Honor 2020! www.foh.org/fightforhonor/
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0:00 Introduction
01:47 National Interest Article About F-22 vs Rafale
5:09 First HUD video
6:18 Second HUD Video
21:00 Discussion/Analysis
31:27Closing
#F22vsRafale
#MoverandGonkyRuinDogfights
#Raptor
Views presented are my own and do not represent the views of DoD or its Components.
The appearance of U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) visual information does not imply or constitute DoD endorsement.
FYI. The last disclaimer in french in the video says it all. “Beware, this video doesn’t demonstrate the superiority of the rafale over the the F22 in any way. We don’t know the rules of engagement, and what led to this situation. It only demonstrate that the rafale is a capable aircraft compared to most modern aircraft in dogfight “. No comment on the garbage article though...
great video as usual. :)
Superiority is a loaded word. It can change on any given day.
Yeah, a full translation would have good useful instead of brushing it aside the way Mover did...
Yes man, so in US planes are put, system which recognized friendly or foe, 100 miles away. There is clip where this left side pilot has exercise wiith SU30, and he had been killed every time, it was sad to watching.I have to make corrections, it was, exercise and rules were made before the flight. How western air force planes have systems in raddar to warn pilots if approaching plane is friendly or foe this kind of situation is or will be impossible. Thx. Fly higher and faster, have (a big or long)😂☝️ rocket and go home for medal.
French just try to sell their Rafale. Using this genre of video
In real time situation Rest in peace raf
@@Fox-One1937 rest in peace who Raf, like royal air force from England and others,, hahaha, what u wanted to say, be careful ?? , Egipt, Greece, India, Indonesia, Kuvait, Bahrain and Croatia want them , l asked my self why, over Eurofighter 2000?It has to have something or it just looks the better ?? hahah.
Mover: Say hello gonky
Gonky: hello gonky
Mover: yep
twr: "say altitude".
aircraft: "altitude"
twr: "say cancelling IFR" :D
hey there brother
I mean he didnt do anything wrong :p
You're out! I didn't say, "Simon says..."
Gonky is a secret GR.... :-D
At 9G, the Frenchman experienced what it's like to weigh the same amount as the average American.
I'd cry too.
Triggered 13:45
😂
🤣
@@MiG-31893
He's been hit!....
He's spinning out of control!....
He's dropping bombs everywhere!....
He's destroying the civilian population!....
O the humanity!......
He's destroying so many civilians, it's a war crime!
🤣
I'd cry just being fr*nch. What a sad situation to be in : (
Latest DCS patch notes for the Mirage 2000: Updated G-strain to be more French.
Lol is that real?
DCS need a fucking Rafale !
"sacré bleu"
_le-oof_
😂😂😂
I loved the t-38 kill at the beginning. Using the car analogy anyone who's been at a drag strip on any weekend you see some the best built, best running, cars getting owned by the dude who built a junkyard Foxbody in his garage because he's having the night of his life
guitardavepdx one of my T-45C IP buds beat a Viper, 1v1, three times in a row. He was a Harrier driver but did BFM every day pretty much, Basic stuff. No idea which Viper, I think a two seater out of ANG, San Antonio if I recall the HUD video. Any given day, given the circumstances.
Now you stopped using common sense and you start being biased like everybody else. LOL
So all this time, the U.S. tax payer is gouged by it's government for overpriced fighter jets, when all that's needed is cheap t-38s and more capable pilots?
The national interest online literally posts this article on f-22 vs rafale once a month and has for years. Whoever the writer/editor is for that site is a complete tool.
I'm pretty sure it's just an ad-factory. I made the mistake of clicking -one- article a few years ago. It was MONTHS before that crap stopped showing up recommended.. fishy search engine optimisation kinda stuff.
Just clean out your cookies and run your protection software.
Did Gonky just climb out of an F-18?? Because he has some wicked helmet head!!!
lmao
😆😆😆😆
Removed my like, i didn't want to change the likes from 69 to 70. So my like is this comment
Mesofs9
Lol!!!
@steezs
The call sign of one the F-18 pilots
The text in French in the video says:
"Warning! This video doesn't show in any case the superioty of the Rafale on the F-22, we do not know the engagement rules and what has happened seconds before. It only shows that the Rafale is as capable as other contemporary fighters."
"Say hello Gonky!"
"Hello Gonky!"
I like this fella already.😂
That article at the start reads like high-school newspaper level writing
all their articles are like that.. amateurish!
Its very emotional. Like some kind of toddler temper tantrum.
@@johnp2110 Seriously, I've noticed a lot of US defence writing is like that when discussing foreign military stuff, especially the French. Full of passive-aggression, snark, and condescension.
It's from the national interest so that is about their level yeah
The National Interest reads like it was written by feeding an AI with junk from other defense -news- blogs. They had an article titled "Desert Eagle: what you get when you mix an AR-15 with a gun" or something like that.
Another great chat. Good to see Gonky again! Hope you pressured him for more ReadyRoom content behind the scenes.
GONKY always has the tired young dad haircut. Love it. :D
During WW 2 there were German pilots with six years of experience and hundreds literally of kills who were shot down by pilots with less than a years experience and just a handful of kills. Eric Hartman was shot down nine times while getting 352 kills. Sometimes you have a bad day.
Honestly that’s a great point
Erich Hartmann was never shot down. He downed himself 9 times because he flew into the debris of the planes he shot down.
@@Kargaron that's not what he said when he was interviewed
@@stephenfowler4115 Would like to see that interview because neither in the books about him nor in the interviews ive seen he tells about getting shot down. He had to bail out several times because he flew to close to enemy planes as he shot them up and got hit by debris and once because he fled from several P-51´s and ran out of fuel.
@@Kargaron its on RUclips I don't have the link. In the interview I saw he crash landed the first eight times. The last one was the only one he bailed out from.
Love this breakdown. I have a close friend who was a F-15c driver and flew chase for the Raptors during the testing. He would be the first to say the F-22 was a better airplane, but so much depends on the pilot and how the aircraft is handled. 2009 the aircraft was still new and the way to fight the plane has evolved a lot since then. Plus we don't know the details of this pilot.
Agreed....I think that is the greatest factor that people never incorporate into the equation.
When they did initial F-22A tactics development once the IFDL was working out of Edwards, they flew against numerically superior flights of F-15Cs that were at Nellis. Everything was BVR set-up initially, flown by really senior F-15C FWS patch guys doing the F-22A tactics. They said that no matter what aspect they intercepted from, they always saw first, shot-first, and were never seen. Said it got so boring that they had competitions to see how quickly they could wipe them all out on the clock just for fun. In one 2v12, F-15s started dying without any indications as to why, so some of the surviving F-15s immediately 180’d and extended in burner, pushing through supersonic.
One of the Raptor pilots said he bore down on them with Mach 1 of closure and killed them all. We know the F-15C doesn’t hang out inside the transonic region when pushing through, so to have Mach 1 closure in that scenario from perch is just ridiculous. It also opens up kinematic possibilities for weapons separation and WEZ/NEZ that are just unfair.
If some low-rate online blogger with click-bait articles thinks that BFM set-ups with all the signature reduction techniques handicapped on the F-22A mean that it is easily defeated, it just shows the quality of that website.
@@LRRPFco52 I remember reading an article about that. None the less its clear that the person that wrote this article is pretty biased to say the least!
@@onyxcamaro There's an interview here on YT on Aircrew Interviews Channel with one of the F-22A tactics development pilots, a former F-15C FWS grad MiG-29 killer.
They covered his career through the air war over the Balkans with the night MiG shoot-down, then the F-22 program. His discussion about the F-22 was more interesting than any of it.
He said when they wrote their initial pilot reports after employing the Raptor against F-15s and F-16s saying, "No really, this thing actually works. They could never see us. We always had any number of ways to kill. There was nothing anyone could do against us."
Engineers who had been working on ATF since the 1980s came to the pilots in tears. "You don't understand. People have been telling us this will never work. You've validated my entire career's work."
@@LRRPFco52 i agree with everything you said. the article didn't talk about how this was a dog fight that limited what the raptor was capable of. in a real engagement the Rafale would be dead before he knew what hit him. the raptor is design for bvr fights. it kills from at least 10 miles away. normally 30-50 miles away and is design to find and kill its targets without ever being seen. so of course it can lose in a gun fight after a merge because that is not what is was design to be good at. i think the article needs context to be understood by anyone who doesnt know much about planes
Love the breakdown videos !
It’s a good day when I see mover upload a breakdown.
Love these types of videos! Also love when you have Gonky on the channel.
At 7:17 the french video underlines that this in no way shows the rafale is superior to the f-22 , and caution must be taken because we know nothing about the rules of engagement, nor do we know what happened before this footage. (Translated by Lemoine as "Oui oui mademoiselle, baguette formidable tour Eiffel) 🙂
yes but gonky is so superior that he doesn't need to understand another language. The world is him ......
Thank you for adding bookmarks throughout your videos! Enjoy the vids !
gonky: straight out of bed and on to the stream 😎
Here I am, a little Frenchy glider pilot, paying respect to American and French fighter pilots ! Thanks for keeping our skies safe, hope these trainings can strengthen us together !
Viva la France, America's oldest ally.
Love the French yall have been with us since the beginning I know we give you a hard time but its like brothers
@@100ksubsanillmakeavideo3 yes, tbh french bashing is rly hard to endure, especially because most of the reason has proven to be wrong, i rly apprciate your comment, come by at any time we would be happy to welcome you ( secrete advice from a frenchy : usually if you see student coming back from school and well dressed, there are high chances that he/she speaks english decently [ especialy nerds or video games players] they'll be more thrilled to speak to you that you are (we LOVE strangers))
Obviously, that French pilot slept in a Holiday Inn Express the night before. Don't laugh, take any edge you can get.
Enjoyed this video, thanks guys!
Thank you for sharing guys I enjoyed it
I remember Até's analysis of this fight (and being a bit more agressive on the French pilot for not calling all the fox-2 kills he could have done).
For him, it looked like the F-22 pilot was simulating worse piloting skills to test the rafale, which was a new airplane in 2009.
The ultimate conclusion was the same though : the pilot is the most limiting factor in air to air combat, moreso with latest generation airplanes limited to 9G-ish turns to avoid having somme goo instead of a pilot on the seat.
(by the way, the 1990's variant, the rafale A, was a mirage 2000 with two F/A-18 engines and a new looking silhouette with nice curves... A proof of concept for a joint European fighter program which became the eurofighter, program later abandonned by France as they whished to have only one aircraft type in their entire fleet with a variant capable to land on a carrier)
Incorrect regarding the Rafale A.
Su 57 Falon all drop F22 and Rafale. Su- 57 3D Vector Super !
@@miafridman6952 Ukraine drop Russia 🤣🤣🤣
@@miafridman6952 don't see all those Su-57's in ukraine though
@@miafridman6952 Lol not even 5 of them are combat operational yet, keep dreaming
“This is the Frenchy-est g-strain I’ve ever heard.” 😂😂
As a French myself, i would say that's our romantism that speaks for ourself. But from a foreign point of view....it is embarrassing :D
@Night Crawler 😆😆😆😆😆😆😳😆😆😆😆
It was a very passionate G strain, the French have a deep appreciation for things like crimes of passion. But if the French pilot’s colleagues watch this video he may have just earned a new call sign.
@@TorToroPorco Yeah, his new callsign is "Screamer."
@@TorToroPorco Or maybe "Cummer." 😉
Which one of your redair buddies shot that T-38 HUD footage Mover? No way you showed that video by mistake.
None. That's an old video on RUclips of an IFF T-38C doing red air for the Raptor. We fly A models, so no HUD or tapes.
Next up, F22 gets shot down by a Cessna. Right.
Sooo... Oldsmobile Cutlass > T-38
justin time
I know one incident when a Cessna type fighter destroyed a Mig. Of course the Mig didn't have a pilot, and was parked on the Ground 😉. Just search Biafra Babies.
Raptor gets dogged by a Spitfire
As a retired Army guy I am curious if this wasn't a dissimilar introduction, to give the visitor a taste of a different generation system, and how it feels when in the same environment, and how to work either with and/or against?
The Rafale's HUD shows a tracking symbol on the F-22. Box or circle with single/double lines which is probably determined by the Rafale's selected weapon mode and MARM. This means the Rafale's radar and/or IRST is tracking the F-22 for the Rafale's avionics system to determine the F-22's position and display it in the Rafale's HUD. So is the F-22 carry external fuel tanks which will negate the steal of the F-22? How small is the F-22's radar and thermal signature, or alternatively how good is the Rafale's sensors?
stealth is a marketing feature, AESA radar would bust a F22 at 100km ....
Mig-23s were bagging new mig-29 pilots when they were introducing them in the soviet airforce, so it is not surprising to see raptors losing from time to time.
The F-22 entered service in the US in the mid 2000s. It's been more 15 years now.
The F22 was made in the late 90s..
@@My_daddy you're thinking of the YF-22. which was the prototype. Things change between trials and the actual deployment. A perfect example of this is the Russian SU-57. Developed and designed well over a decade ago, in that time frame they had a brand new engine designed that gave them an incredible thrust to weight ratio.
@@ExarchGaming yeah but the f-22 is Going on twenty years of active service and the SU-57 was very costly and Russia only made a small number. Most countries are changing their focus to sixth Gen. The f-22 is getting updated and upgraded over the next few years. The SU-57 is bad ass but it’s pretty big and the radar cross section is bigger than other stealth aircraft.
@@trenton.tchannel1810 I agree for sure, that their stealth is not as advanced, but their performance is pretty stellar, they can perform manuevers some modern fighters couldn't dream of performing so easily. I think they will lose 10/10 times at BVR ranges, I think once a merge happens though and in a dog fight scenario is where the SU-57 does kind of have a chance. I was never a fan of the F-35 so i'm glad to see the F-22 program more or less be kinda restarted.
Great break down and commentary keeping it real
Funnily, the Rafal pilot always spoke in English, but his accent is so strong that Mover thought he was speaking French. 😊
Its fair to say that while a fighter can be superior to another fighter, it all comes down to the pilot's training and awaress at a given point...
Just curious (if it isn’t OPSEC), what’s your guys’ kill to loss record?
No idea. 🤷♂️
C.W. Lemoine Thanks Mover. Much mahalos 🤙
C.W. Lemoine Another quick question, out of all the fighters you flew/fly what is your favorite and why? I’m biased and hope it’s the Viper since I’m a Hawaii Air National Guard (154 MXS) guy. BTW great channel, love your content.
F22 : “You can't beat me!“
Rafale : “Hold my baguette... “
😂 nice one
The f22 beat it 6 times. Rafale got one win
@@Zx17OPv57i you call 6 to 1 a win for the rafale? The guy had to do 9 G's just to get the win. Very dangerous move just for one win for an exercise training session
@@Zx17OPv57i you think the US, France and the UK flew all the way to the UAE for dogfighting training exercise for one battle and then they went home? Are you dumb? They were there for at least three days and all four countries battled it out and had many dog fights. The F22 will win over 90% of the time. Sometimes you might just have a more experienced pilot in a less advanced jet, which will be good enough to get you at least one win.
"The F-22 scored well against its training opponents, “shooting down” six Rafales and drawing in five more mock dogfights" - look that quote up
@@1.21Gigawatts_ its a training exercise calm down we all know how good you guys are at war.. laughs in Vietnam😂😂
chuck "yeager" got this video demonetised. unbelievable!
I wonder if the two human reviewers were French.
Chuck Yaeger should be ASHAMED of himself, gosh. :)
Is that true about Yeager?
@@dutchbrotherfan1284 RUclips algorithms picked up a video recently for offensive content because "Yaeger" set off its match for offensive content. It was supposedly reviewed by humans - who also deemed it offensive. Hence the joke.
@@Dream0Asylum insanity
Glad I survive the French (funny) bashing! :D
Very cool video, very interesting to have a murican PoV of this, as in France on forums and Facebook it is a video i saw too many times with some stupid cocky comments (the propaganda is doing its job right). And i am glad you say the same things as me, basically : it freakin DEPENDS.
By the way we have a former Navy Rafale pilot that have a RUclips Chanel (ATE chuet), and he speaks English (amazing) . Would be very cool to see you both discussing about this video and situation, he could probably answer about the few questions you have. Ah, and he is also playing DCS. Just sayin! ;)
Those Rafales are freakin nice man badass Jets. And yeah when in Dog fighting usually the person who sees there target first and even already on there 6 has a tremendous advantage. Rafales can also turn a dime. Rules of engagements is a factor but nonetheless like they said it beat a F-22! It's just like Ships and there Military/Civilian history, you never call them unsinkable. As Military Doctrines progresses things will change for both sides and improve. Just glad we are allies at the end of the day no matter who wins! Much love from 🇺🇸🇨🇵
What was that cry he made during his g-pull lmao. sounded like he was blowing his load or something. :P
Mover aime pas les français visiblement
Hey Mover. Do you mind asking Gonky if he was in Malaysia back in 2016. That was the year F22 Raptor and F15 Eagle did dissimilar combat training with the Royal Malaysian Air Force. I wonder if he was involved in that exercise
I Think he was there
Hey Lemoine
What's your opinion about VRS F-18 From Superbug for FSX/P3D??
another good video great break down .
In summary: "Oh yeah? Well MY dad could beat up YOUR dad!"
I thank both of you for your very relevant comments. Great respects for the engineers who designed these wonderfull fighters, for the mechanics who take care of them and for the men and women who fly them and defend their respective nation and people.
Women? Lol 😂
also i love your vids i am not able to drive yet but your vids have been getting me into the airforce like wanting to be in it when i grow up so thank you.
Enjoyed the video, thanks
Did Gonky go Supersonic? He started in his "I Love Me Wall" room and switched to a non-descript room. Whoosh!
Thanks guys, that was much more informative than watching another version as I'm NOT a fighter pilot. Best wishes.
Cool video guys, great to get your thoughts
You can't expect everybody to be as good as you guys you guys are just kicking ass
I once beat 3 F-22’s in my Cessna 152. The navy called my and made me a top gun instructor.
You rockstar
Loved Gonky's reaction when Mover was busting the pilot's balls for his noises during g-strain...LOL!! The conversation about the factors in combat was great though.
Phenomenal video 🤘🏻
Its always fun when these guys get together
Nice video and reasonable arguments. Salutations from France.
Je crois qu’on dit « greetings » et pas salutations.
@@Desi365 on va dire que c'était pour la french touch. :)
"Vintage 1990's Rafale" Do someone in US takes seriously what that website says ?
Thanks guys. Very honest review. Cheers
Of you liked this one you may like this one too : ruclips.net/video/tjqgfGB3y8o/видео.html
Don't know warm spit about current A/A Tactics but I do appreciate simple physics. Every well trained pilot avoids engagements where he does not have a clear advantage (be it altitude, airspeed, armament, or skill).
National Interest
Me: First thing wrong spotted _immediately_
Fan of russian fighters here, and of the french Rafale too (that not of the french). This competition says nothing about the f-22. The said plane is a marvel and sure it is more capable than the Rafale, in almost all areas, which is also a great plane which excels specially at low speeds, but mayb the F-22 pilot underestimated the french pilot and that would be all (or maybe not precisely the best pilot for a plane like the F-22). I'd also like to remind many of those who insist on throwing crap on the f-22 in what it comes to dogfighting capabilities at low speed, and let's be honest because it is an american plane as well, that this plane can do stuff at low speeds (in other words at dogfighting speed) the french plane would only dream of.
And for those who hate the f-22 because they think the f-23 should have been the winner, let me also remind you about one thing. The F-23 was basically an interceptor, not a dogfighter-interceptor like the F-22. The F-23 is one of the most incredible planes we've known of, but besides the aforementioned "problem", Northrop relationship by then with the USA goverment wasn't the best (the problems with the b-2 bombers), and if you think the F-22 couldn't be more expensive, that is because you cannot imagine how much more expensive the F-23 was among other things because of the tech it contained in order to maintain its stealh capability at the frigging high speeds this plane was able to achieve (interceptor speeds), which btw remains clasified to this day (I think it would be around 2800KM/h. Not as fast as the MiG-31, but still faster than any other interceptor that exists. Also, achieving those 3200KM/h for the Mig-31 takes a while, and can't maintain it for long. The F-23 was supposed to be able to maintain those high speeds for long and while remaining stealhty, which was a miracle of tech=$$$). So yeah, the F-23 was so cool and that, but the F-22 could at least engage the enemy in a dogfight and was way more agile, primary reason (along with the $$$ one) it won the contest. The F-22 is an incredible plane which doesn't have to be the lesser one compared to the F-23. It's just different.
If we want to throw crap on an american plane, then we might begin with the F-35 heheh. Nah just joking, but some decisions on this plane like that very reduced max speed really makes someone wonder how a pilot is supposed to scape the enemy in case it is needed. Fuck even the new F-18 has more max speed than the F-35 wth?, and yeah talking about the F-18. I think it is simply the best plane overall ever created, btw still one of the best at low speeds. I think an F-18, a plane way older than the Rafale, would be very capable of defeating the french plane in close combat.
In my honest opinion, the only plane capable of beating an F-22 piloted by a true ace would be either the SU-37 terminator (and the SU-35 now too), and perhaps the SU-47 Berkut that so sadly never came to be. All this of course in case the russian planes manage to get (force) the F-22 pilot into a dogfight, because prior to that they should have to evade many middle to long range missiles the Raptor would have thrown at them without being detected, and those missiles..., well, you know how effective they can be, and how fast they are actually. This ain't Ace Combat ok?, dodging missiles specially those ones is not easy.
The F-22 very well might still be the best air superiority aircraft, even nowdays. And yes It is also probably better than the cheap SU-57 russian copy.
The Su-57 looks like the offspring of a Su-27 and YF-22.
Question, how likely would it be that this scenario would occur in a time of war?
Dogfights are so rare nowadays. Like I’m pretty sure there hasn’t been a wartime dogfight between fighter jets in almost 3 decades. Missiles range/accuracy improvements combined with the raptors stealth capability would keep all engagements happening from ‘beyond visual range’. That’s why ‘stealth’ is the name of the game now and 5th gen fighters are focused around that, not super maneuverability.
SO why was the video de monetized? I watched the whole thing, I did not come across any vulgar or offensive language.
"Hi steve how you doing"
"I t d e p e n d s"
During WW2 the Pacific theatre was won by the US navy mostly because they brought back their fighter aces regularly in order to aid training the new guys and share experiences, whereas the Japanese kept their best pilots out in the field. This resulted in the new pilots coming in without enough experience nor training and resulted in further losses. So, more than the aeroplanes being used it was the quality of training and experience of the pilots that counted in the end. Correct me if I am wrong...
False. LOL. Vastly superior US technological and industrial capacity won the Pacific theatre. 2 examples: US pilots had radar by the end of the war and began absolutely dominating the skys. Next, the US produced over 100 Aircraft Carriers relative the Japan's 12 Carriers.
U.S. technology was vastly superior by the end of ww2. The Japanese keeping their best pilots in the air and not training new pilots was a mistake as history has shown. However pilot skill won’t determine everything about the fight. If this were a real engagement they would have never even went to the merge. He would have locked him up at like 80 miles sent a fox 3 and then leave. Splash one, nobody even knows he was there. Dogfights basically don’t happen anymore.
Initially the Japanese had our planes beat, but once they started giving American fighters more powerful engines and aerodynamic designs it was over for Japan. few people learn to fight as quickly as those whose homeland is under attack. The Navy and AAF and marine corps produced some of the best aces of all time
@@distinctga5811 The same thing happened in germany btw. An airwar is won in the classroom.
@@koc988 Although training is important, everyone gets training and it takes years to get proper training. Germany was outproduced, outpaced technologically, and it's industry was bombed and starved of oil. This is what doomed Germany. Airwars are won through sustained industrial output and technological advantages. Technological advantages keep your pilots alive, which leads to a more experienced fighting force. It takes a significant amount of time to train a pilot adequately and actual experience is the best training. Inferior technology, regardless of training, dooms those pilots before they have a chance to gain experience which leads to a poorly trained, inexperienced fighting force given the time constraints when training new pilots. Japan quite literally lost a most of it's experienced pilots because of inferior technology, which includes their inability to keep the attack on Midway a secret (cryptography). The US had better trained pilots because a significant portion of them actually stayed alive. When the US deployed radar Japanese pilots, regardless of their training, were sitting ducks: hence the infamous "Mariana Turkey Shoot"
Mover I see a bit of controversy on the DCS forums, saying the Viper can or cannot carry 6 Mavericks or 4 HARMS. Have you carried them?
Danny D
I’m pretty sure the F16 can carry the triple ejector racks with Mavs and there are stations for 4 harms; just going by from what I remember flying in F4.0 BMS. It might depend on the Block though.
Is there a mechanism for preventing pilots from hyperventilating or are they not really breathing so hard and so fast?
Great analysis guys. Really interesting to see just how much skill is involved in aerial combat. Cheers
that raptor got owned.
If someone can help me break down the second HUD footage since I lost track and have a bit of trouble of wrapping my brain with what's going on. The F-22 lost visual on the Rafael, so it just circled around until it went "Oh, he's behind me" and then pushed the plane hard like he would've been doing if he had proper visual. This is near the end of the second half of the HUD.
So basically. Lost visual?
What ground based radar does each side have?
Well now we need cockpit footage of Mover pullin 9Gs... and maybe the French G suites have a groin component, you don't know... jkjk great video :D
You won't find it. F-16 HUD tapes are classified. The grunt is poor form though. The purpose of a proper AGSM is quick air exchanges to keep air in your lungs. Grunting like that forces all the air out and makes it harder to breathe under G. That's why we use PBG in the Viper (and also why it would be harder to squeal like that in an F-16).
@@CWLemoine all jokes aside, thanks for the insight! Specter series is on my list :)
"American stealth fighter is not literally invincible in all situations and against all opponents" is the kind of thing you'd say "no shit" to. Especially when stealth fighters were and remain a fairly new technology (yes, I know the F-117 was called a stealth fighter, but that thing carried zero air-to-air capability and was quite obviously a stealth bomber) and they were still figuring out how to best use them. Saying that an F-22 is beatable in a pure dogfight is like saying that a sniper is not super dangerous in close-quarters combat; no shit, but getting into a CQC fight as a sniper means you've already fucked up badly.
Yeah, the 117 shouldn't have an "F", and stealth isn't invincibility, as proven by that serb colonel who shot one down with a 1960s SAM haha.
@@jordancarroll9397 Bad tactics led to that F-117 getting shot down. Same routes every night.....SAM crews will always take advantage of that. Also, I think the SAM used was newer than 1960's.
@@jordancarroll9397 Yeah...that was a total victory for the Serbs....and being bombed with impunity for weeks....their ground forces being decimated....they managed to shoot down...........one.
@@dsm3759703 Great victory for the Serbs, achieved by a Hungarian man. Classic.
@@jordancarroll9397 the F-117 had some air to air capability. So it technically is a fighter? 😅
This video is a pure gold. Lot of key statements are here by your analysis.
What is your opinion about Croatia as a potential buyer of F-16's from block 70,do you think its the best option for Croatia,because there's 3 more options.Sweden GripenC/D,F-16 Barracks from Israel,and French Rafales.What do you think is the best option
Depends on the budget because that’s a huge range of prices right there.
Haha, le mec se moque du crie du pilote de Rafale ! Il a juste le gros seum !!🇫🇷🇫🇷🇫🇷🇫🇷🇫🇷
Lemoine (ça sonne Français d’ailleurs) je serais curieux de l’entendre crier sous les G d’un rafale... Petit (d’esprit) de se moquer.
@@edouardesk4535 Oui je suis bien d'accord ! Le pilote tient 3/4 sec à 9,3G après avoir enchaîné les évolutions à 6G et il s'étonne que le pilote en chie !
Dans tt les cas, le pilote à le droit de faire tous les bruits qu'il veut, tant qu'il remporte le combat....
Haha mais grave ils sont trop salty les yanks leur raptor se fait démonter par le rafale à chaque exercise 😂
grave c des fragiles , Dassault les meilleurs !!
surtout qu'eux feraient avec leur accent nasillard y peuvent aller se crasher
This type of videos are good because it reminds to anglo-saxons speakers that there are other countrys like France that have excellent airplanes as good as F-22 or F-35. Sometimes they get too cocky that's all.
Great to hear Gonky mention "SA". Situational Awareness. would be great for you to work this into some future discussion
So Gonky, how did the Hornet do against the Rafale?
Dude that french guy sounds like me on a fst doing the breathlizer test
Underrated comment😂
I think the fact that the US denied the shoot down, and then France was like “bet” is hilarious to me
Which plane is the best at dogfight? If they both see each other?
Good analysis!!!👌🏻👌🏻
What's your opinion about F35? It's a good dogfighter?? How compares to the Rafale???🤔🤔🤔
LASTLY , THE ABILITY OF THE PILOTS MATTERS THE MOST .
Conclusion : As always no good plane without a good pilot
Love from France
Agreed, a lot comes down to the pilot. Glad you guys are our allies, love from the US as well
This saying will always be true. "It's not the plane, it's the pilot".
This is so cool
A grown educated man laughing at the funny looking and sounding non english words...
There's a lot of the 'the better trained will win' in the martial arts world, too. Know your tools and use them well, and the numbers won't decide the outcome.
Since you guys fly T-38As as adversaries for the F-22s, I’m guessing your ready room shows a bunch of Raptor kills.
Good afternoon CW Lemoine
So at the end of the day, beyond the hardware and tactics, the French bashing and US ego, the knowns and unknowns... this French pilot is better than his American counterpart
This particular french pilot was better than that particular American one, yes. In that single instance.
We don't know each pilots current level of training, seniority, etc.
Red head dude looks so pissed
Yeah, American pilots are nothing extra special really. Just like everywhere in the world there are good ones and less goos ones. Only in Hollywood movies US pilots are represented as better than others.
Maybe. Maybe not. Like they said, it is very weird and highly suspect that we couldn't hear what the f22 pilot was saying. We don't know the rules of the exercise or even what the goals were. Was the f22 pilot even trying? We don't know.
@@jcl9787 he looks exactly how he always looks in every video.
Before acm in Vietnam it was a 3-1 kill ratio after those classes it was up to 10-1 kill that goes to show as pilots we are getting smarter and better equipped but an aircraft is only a machine controlled by an imperfect being that makes mistakes but what makes them better is they train and become a master
Mason Murchison
Take also in account that the MiG-21s were out to hunt any american plane.
F-4s were also used as bombers so several being lost because of AA.
What you should do is a comparision of how many F-4s were lost to a MiG-21 and how many MiG-21s were lost to an F-4. The ratio should be more in favor of the F-4s in that case. Also you can take in account the encounters over both vietnam and the middle east for a bigger sample.
NeuesTestament
Not necessarily.
The MiG-21 aint that agile compared to a phantom. The plane that was really problematic in a dogfight over vietnam was the MiG-15 since Phantom pilots would be dragged in a low and slow dogfight where the phantom does not finds itself well at at.
The MiG-21 on the other hand Has an extremely small wing surface with Delta wings and behaves poorly at high angle of attack. This means that it must keep its speed or is done for. Cant really push the nose or its at a serious risk of stalling. Comparing that to the phantom you’d find that the MiG-21 has to fight in a condition that is much less dangerous for the Phantom.
The problem of the MiG-21 over vietnam was that they used very effective ambush tactics during operation rolling thunder. They did not dogfight phantoms. They run away. This is why operation Bolo was a massive success for the US. They dragged in the MiG-21s in a fight and won big.
By linebacker in 1972 the upgrades to the phantom, the training and the command and control made the Phantom achieve nearly total success against the MiG-21s both in Navy and Air Force service.
Mind you this does not mean that the F-4 is totally superior to the MiG-21. It mens that the overall system and organization behind it managed to achieve success.
This aint a 1-1 comparision. That I find it pretty useless since it tells little IMO.
Great video!! I like some of the other's I'm sure think that it's just the platform that you have and your going to win and be a world beater. But after watching this video! I understand more that it's really the man and his training and skills!!
I can teach a monkey how run a machine but the finer details and points is something he'll never get!!
Great video!! I really enjoyed it. I believe that in 2009, we were still learning a lot about the Raptor and this was a kill for whatever scenario at the time but like you both pointed out. That probably wouldn't happen now with advances in technology and just pure experience by the Raptor pilots!! Thanks for sharing!!
@Drew Peacock Yes it was a very monkeyist comment lol. You surely must like them monkeys🐒
THIS is 1 cool vid. I'd love to see more of this content. Thank you Mover.
I my opinion this doesn't take anything away from the Raptor as a modern capable fifth generation fighter, but I think the problem is with people's perception and mentality nowadays. People tend to have a naive and to some degree immature black and white mentality on most issues. What we see here today doesn't really say much about the F-22's capabilities or lack thereof, that aircraft was never promised as an 'Invincible' fighter. Of course it can be beaten, both in a dogfight and possibly in BVR too. So I guess what I am saying is that people have this naive and unrealistic mental image of what the F-22 is and they get shocked to find out that it wasn't what they imagined it to be.
The real problem is that the F-22 never received all of its upgraded, which means that European jets have the edge when it comes to IRST.
@@FirstDagger That is correct, given how complex the F-22 is, and the overall nature of aircraft design these systems have to be developed by many iterations of updates and changes. No new weapon system is designed to perfection in its earliest form.
Gosh this reminds me of the F-14 when it first came to DCS. Everybody thought it would be untouchable but got proven wrong. People really need to realize that it's not the plane, its the pilot and every country has there Bad and best pilots.
I also heard that the readiness rate of the raptor is really low which sucks
At the end.... man behind the machine does matter
Is there any Typhoon with RAF pilots v F22s anywhere. I would love to see how that one goes. I know the F22 has the edge but if anything is gonna get close it will be the Typhoon, remember everyone that the Typhoon is a multi role aircraft so it just doesn’t do A2A, it does everything to a very good standard, but yeah, pure A2A then most of the time the Raptor will have it due to the main thing being stealth. The 2nd being the thrust vectoring. The thrust on the Typhoon is awesome tho but no vectoring
The RAF typhoon, multirole?
ahahahahaha lol.....
@@chesseastuces9684 yup, it’s a fully multitasking & multi role aircraft, it has always performed very well & has proven itself in many real world operational areas.
@@chesseastuces9684 Last time I checked yes it was.
Commenting to state that there is nothing any reasonable person would find offensive in this video. Keep it up Mover! Class act always.
Merci
Excellent.
David Ace. ‘Nuff said. He started off doing a webcomic, whatever that is.
I am waiting to hear that the A-10 somehow managed to dominate in the tournament XD
I would not be surprised... A-10 Brrrrr! for the win!
A-10 uses WWII aerodynamics so it out turns any supersonic fighter.
loved the video, thanks for doing it
Do you have videos where the F22 wins (not in DCS)?
No. F-22 HUD videos are classified.