I can empathize. I went through the same thing when I was 8 years old. I was kicking up the kickstand prematurely on my Huffy bike with similar results. It was an institutional problem. Most of us had hundreds of hours on our Huffy bikes and other models, so we weren't rookies. All the kids in the neighborhood did it the same way, but the same technique did not work on grass. Apparently, the decrease in CFG (centrifugal force generated) on grass, as opposed to asphalt, was the cause of the problem. Takeoff was performed on visual cues and feel, without regard to the audible warning generated by the playing card-ometer that interacts with the spokes. That auditory cue would have been sufficient to alert the rider that there was insufficient velocity/CFG. Unfortunately, this cue was regularly disregarded by most riders in the neighborhood. It resulted in many dented and scuffed pedals and bars. My incident served to change our training and we successfully conducted operations after with no further incidents.
Imagine the heart-dropping, gut-wrenching feeling of this pilot when this occurred. There you are... sat in a rare, cutting edge $150M aircraft... and you just have to sit there helpless, listening to the sound of metal scraping and the airframe buckling.
@@wags83 "He should never fly again" Wtf? What would be the reason for you to say that? Did you watch through the whole video? Heck, are we even talking about the same video/mishap here? I'm so confused...
Navy Pilots: "Navy pilots can land on carriers because our landing gear is stronger." Airforce Pilot: "That's impressive, but who even needs landing gear, hold my beer."
Department of Defense: "Ok Air Force, You finish that Air Force Base we had to work miracles to pay for?" Air Force: "Yeah about that. We need money for the runways." DOD: "What? How do you build an Air Force Base without runways?" Air Force: "We kind of forgot about runways. All the buildings look great though. Best of the best." 😁
Mr. Lemoine- Thank You for your insights on this incident. My father was a Vietnam era Marine aviator who flew F-8s, F-4s, and F-18s before retirement. This video reminds me of hearing him and some of the other Marines talking shop around the house. Thanks for the great content.
Ladies and gentlemen, this is the first time ever, two different people have received the Internet together. Congratulations Robert Lu and Albert Goenner on this landmark event, and congratulations, YOU TWO win and own The Internet, for today.....
I'm a NASA contractor/principal investigator doing flight safety research among other tasks. I really enjoy your briefings. I'm always amazed at how near misses/mishaps/accidents happen regardless of steps taken to prevent them. Great site! Best of luck with all of your projects! Thanks!
@@wazza33racer there are theories that this was NASA´s plan all along because Gus Grissom complained about the space program and told the media: how are we supposed to land on the moon with such a trashcan
Great presentation and I understood every word. I've been an AAE (Armchair Aviation Enthusiast) all my life starting from the time when when I was about 4-5 years old watching B-25s taking off from McClellan AFT in Sacramento and B-36s cruising at high altitude from my school yard. Please keep making these excellent videos and stay safe.
Ramirez Jose Yes I do agree with you to a point. Pressure is applied to us now to live our lives, work performance expectations, family expectations. Expectations to be superman/superwoman. There just is no TIME to do an Internet research deep dive and gather facts in every matter. The media knows that and is taking huge liberties to tell us what they want to tell us - rarely the truth if ever.
Written by a 20 something just outta college kid with no military experience or knowledge of military protocol. Deconstructed by a former pilot who knows what he's talking about. But fake news, right?
This was incredibly interesting. I, for one, enjoy a sensationalised headline being examined by someone with training, experience and knowledge on the subject. Thankyou for taking the time to make this video.
Thankfully it didn't take the loss of the pilot's life to get the problem identified and hopefully corrected. Thank you for breaking down the explanation and making this report understandable .
"what'd you do for cinco de mayo?" "watched a 30 minute read thru about a fighter pilot crashing his F22." "Oh. That sucks. You in the Air Force, I take it then?" "nope..." "..." "..."
Hi cw I'm from South Africa looking for battlefield 3 end game the jet fighter game can u pls help me finding it n x plane 11 thanks Dean link to games would help thanks
@@deanraffiedean8666 X-Plane 11 doesn't have a Hornet built in. The included fighter is an F-4. There is an addon Super Hornet by Colimata, but I would not recommend that you buy it. Get the legacy Hornet for DCS instead, it's the golden standard and it's on sale.
@@deanraffiedean8666 definately get the legacy hornet for DCS. it's still in development but its pretty far in. only needs ground radar and a few other features. and dcs is a full combat flight sim so you get more bang for your buck.
Hi Nick I'm from South Africa n I'm trying to purchase dcs flight games abroad can u help me with n link or web site pls guys in South Africa do not have this games thanks n mill.Dean
Thank you. You did an excellent job of unpacking the actual report and laying out the real causes of the mishap. The errors in training were particularly interesting, as was the Air Force's honesty in digging down to the root cause of the problem rather than coming up with a scapegoat/whitewash.
I talked to my father about this years ago, prompted by something different, and he never liked the whole "gear in as soon as possible"-thing. "If the engine cuts out or something happens I don't wanna waste time lowering the gear" was his approach. True, he flew older generation fighters with less power but they were still able to go super sonic while still over the field if you did not pay attention. I am happy to see that they did not go the easy and often PC-route and put all the blame on the pilot but instead (hopfully) made sure to correct a systemic error in order to advance correct training and flight safety. Good report. The fact that the paper got it wrong, well, news at 9. What did anyone expect?
In something like an F16 you’re already climbing really hard to slow the acceleration down as much as possible to give you time to get the gear in, I’d imagine the F22 is even worse.
26:00 “loads of dinosaurs.” Sir, I haul fuel for a living. Today I delivered over 250,000lbs lbs of fuel. I just want you to know that I will call every load “dinosaurs” after tonight. CPL Roark; out.
This was an amazing synopsis of events that I could never have gleaned from that newspaper article. Thank you for seeing some warning signs and digging into the report to explain all of this to us. I did a lot of that after Scott Waddle's horrible accident, explaining how the control room can get, especially with VIPs onboard, so people could understand how the problem happened and how those with the answer may have dropped the ball, etc. It gives people a greater appreciation of how difficult and chaotic military operations can be. Great job reading between the lines and helping us understand more of your world!
I'm pretty sure, with the comments I'm seeing, that most people who clicked on this video didn't bother watching the whole thing before they started typing.
Well maybe a lot of dumb prepubescent RUclipsrs, same with Air Force pilots, sad to say. I’m a lightweight that has only has flown Cessnas and I know what to do at high-altitude airports and never ever am I going to retract my gear early, period. Only dummies do that. Discipline is bad in the military and that is that. Drones are the answer, they are not hair-brained.
@@steveperreira5850 "Discipline is bad in the military and that is that." is way overgeneralizing. Like saying "Navy pilots are better because . . .", or "Chevy owners are better because . . .". Truth is humans are human. There are numerous factors here the host/author brought our well.
Isn’t that always the case? It’s almost as if there’s an unwritten internet rule; “thou shalt only read the title & fully form one’s opinion based solely on that. Under no circumstance shalt thou read the entire article in order to learn more information.”
Really great even-keeled analysis. Appreciate the perspective on how normalization of deviance can affect even the highest caliber aviators. Formal briefings and sticking to the numbers are often the first corners cut once we consider ourselves “proficient” and comfortable in the jet. But they nearly always come back to bite. Why do the enemy a favor?
As a former metalsmith in the Navy with many trips to Fallon I for one appreciate a look at things from the aircrew point of view when ever it presents it's self. Thank you.
He revealed an institutional problem with training I suspect, where TOLD is virtually ignored which led to it not being correctly calculated when away from home. In a way, it is a good thing it happened like htis,, as no one was hurt - and easily could have been if there had been any kind of weather or the temp had been higher. Great analysis once again, thanks for the vid :¬)
@@starfighter1043 too bad he wasn't flying drunk so that he could join the ranks of the American dreamers that drive drunk every weekend to prove have sacred their families are
When you mentioned that they checked the oxygen system it reminded me of an incident that happened while I was stationed at Elmendorf in the late 70's. An F-4E flying low level actually flew into a stand of trees. The crazy thing is that they didn't crash and were able to fly home with extensive damage. The pilot was unconscious so the WSO flew the aircraft for thirty minutes to get back on one engine as the #2 flamed out immediately. They parked the aircraft in the hangar that my shop was in. It's amazing it got back. First, when you looked in the #1 intake you could see large pieces of wood literally jammed into the engine blades so it seemed logical that it was the one that flamed out. However, it was the one that kept running. the #2 engine not only had ingested large pieces of wood but also the radome, radar, some of the black boxes located on the right side and the fuselage skin from the large hole in the side of the nose. No wonder it stalled. In addition the glass front windscreen was intact but heavily cracked. The right windscreen and front canopy were gone and the back canopy was cracked so it was a cold flight home. The impact also tore holes in the leading edges and undersides of both wings and the fuselage. The pitot tube on the tail was bent and it actually bent the air frame. The reason I was reminded of this is that the pilots claimed they got dizzy and disoriented so they inspected the oxygen system. This was scary for me as I was an environmental systems tech and the last person to work on the oxygen system although I was sure I hadn't done anything wrong. Fortunately, they concluded that the system was good. The grapevine said what actually happened was that they did an aileron roll over a herd of caribou and when they came out of it there were the trees. What's really screwy is that the aircraft was rebuilt over a period of a few months. The tail number, which I'll never forget, was 66268. You could always tell when it was in the air as it literally crabbed through the air due to the bent air frame.
They don’t fly aircraft whose main frames have been bent and for that reason. They either go on a display pillar in front of wing HQs or they end up at DM.
@@natural-born_pilot Well, they flew this one. I was there. I was involved personally. That aircraft sat right outside my shop door in hangar two for months while it was rebuilt. Don't tell me they didn't fly it. I worked on the rebuild myself. I saw it fly. You don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.
This use to happen quite a lot (well different kinds of misshapes with gear retracted) With the old Draken in the Swedish airforce. They run them on grass fields (yes, jets on grass fields). Then fun part with the Draken is that it was so robust it could simply just extend the landing gear and raise up the aircraft. Also being grass fields, it rarely damage the aircraft.
The fact that he is still flying is a great example of "whatever doesn't kill you, makes you stronger". Sharing this story with other pilots makes the other pilots wiser too. In fact I think it was Flying magazine that used to have a feature called Aftermath that let general aviation pilots learn from the accidents of their fellow pilots. And I have a story of a belly landing of a Beech 99 (small commuter aircraft) taking off from a snowy upstate New York airfield. The runway hadn't been plowed well enough so on its take off roll, the tires threw hundreds of pounds of slush into the wheel wells putting the aircraft badly over weight. It could only stay airborne in ground effect and landed on it's belly in an open field directly beyond the runway. No fatalities fortunately. But you just never know what can go wrong.
Mover, outstanding job debriefing this mishap. I'm never one to judge another but rather think if that happened to him, could be me next. You highlighted some truly universal key takeaways.. incomplete / incorrect TOLD data, 2 indications of climb, etc. -m-
"Organizational Overconfidence in Equipment" is such a hilarious and accurate term. Its also amazingly relatable, even across job fields. I work in Cybersecurity, hearing this story and that term was an instant flashback to getting a new client at work that had a worse system resource to amount of data ratio. So as a team we had built a habit of running inefficient log searches. Because who cares if a search that is supposed to complete in .05 seconds completes in .5 seconds. You're not noticing the difference much. But you change those to 1 minute and 10 minutes, we have a very situation. So it was this sorta retraining and google fu scramble to get our searching technique back to where it should've been. Just thought it be interesting to share how familiar this story can be. Also, this was an amazing breakdown to make this report understandable to a complete non pilot like myself.
@@anonypersona3189 Come to think about it, he has 350 flight hours… even if he spent most of the time in an F-16, this would still amount to several million dollars.
Thanks Mover for putting that in perspective for me you do a great job. Tyndall was my favorite assignment was flying with the 475th Test Sq seven years. Most interesting time in my life. Flew in three William Tells and all kinds of test programs going on at the time. The Air Force needed something better than the Dart to test and qualify the gun in the new F-15 and F-106A gun program at the time. We had to rig a new 30 ft fiberglass target with bullet scorer attached to an F-101B and quickly configure it to use for these programs. We drug it off the runway 100 ft behind the F-101, reeled it out to 2,000 ft over the range and flew head on passes with the F-15 pulling 5 G turns just before it fired. It was fun but best part was if it wasn’t shot off the cable we’d reel it back in to 100 ft and fly 35 ft above the runway and cut the cable to let it drag down the runway to a stop. Of course we set it down in the middle but the target never went straight and always took one or two runway lights with it. Some crazy and wild times.
Author of article - *watches infographics* Author of article - “since infographics said you need 1500hrs to fly for an airline 500hrs must be a rookie.”
500 isn't a lot of hours. Not quite rookie status (as the word implies a student pilot or something) but that's exactly what I assume the writer meant. He saw 500 hours and knew it isn't a lot of experience. The mistake was a rookie one even if the pilot wasn't truly a novice.
@@Aviator27J You can't judge fighter hours by the same as other non-limited airframes. They have a very limited fleet (I think 186 left now), with limited hours before the airframes life out. 500 hours isn't much by some measures, but in an F22 it's a decent number.
Only armchair cowboys can throw cuts and jabs without ever being qualified to fly or putting their ass on the line with a pair to defend their freedom. Pay back or give something back not required with them nope mommy and daddy protect them. Mommy I need the latest computer out.... mommy there’s a new brand of sneakers out that’s become the fad get them for me.
Love C.W. Lemoine. As a former Naval Aviator myself, his detail and memory of things is absolutely incredible. The weight of wheels click is one of many little details. Keep it up, it always brings back great memories every time I see you dissect something.
we had a helicopter pilot (CO of the squadron) who had the callsign "skids". doing landings on the back of a frigate and you leave the brakes on for obvious reasons. but when you come back to base and the ATC demands a rolling landing..you need to take the brakes off. oops. this was HSL-94 out of willow grove,PA back in the early 90's and the CO's name was Mclaughlin. otherwise a good CO. really gave a damn about the people under him.
There is a reason he has the last name Masters and the call sign Iron Eagle! Best pilot ever! And that documentary they did on him, his old man and Chappie was spot on! As an Air Force vet I've always thought that series (Iron Eagle 1 - Iron Eagle 17) were great training films.
Mover, as I watch more and more of your work the thing that keeps me coming back is your positive attitude. You could have dumped all over this guy but you didn't. I have to assume he gets some ribbing for it, I expect face to face you'd almost be required to deliver some yourself but here, in this forum, pure professionalism. I came into this expecting a chuckle at this pilot's expense, instead I got an adjustment and an education. Strong work, thanks for your efforts, and I look forward to the next.
I guess they figured since it was a graduation he must be a "rookie" that has never flown before... because obviously that's how it works, you don't get to fly until you graduate 😂
Top Gun 65: "I'm about to wreck this man's whole career" Chain of Command: "Who's mine?" I can think of a few times when I was in the Air Foce in which the Technical Orders were wrong or incorrect. For example once I was working on a -95 gas turbine start cart and it needed a shim adjustment on the igniter spacing. Well the T.O. had a mathematical formula to figure out the size and number of shims. Well the math seemed wrong to me so I asked my NCO and we messed with it and it seemed wrong. So we finally had someone in the flight that was studying engineering and said the formula was wrong. So we turned in a form you use to report errors or mistakes in T.O. and it gets reviewed. It turned out in the last T.O update this chart had been changed but the change had the wrong formula.
It isn't accurate though, dinasours don't make up the oil we pump up. Oil was formed from organisms that lived way earlier than dinos, mostly algae and ocean plat things
As a former mere small-helicopter and fixed-wing police pilot, 6770 hrs total, with 1300 hrs f/w time I was blown away with this advanced dissertation. Awesome work. I only wish he spoke more slowly, at age 62 I must be getting a bit slow on the take. Flying as a retirement hobby is now too expensive, so there. I was (luckily) trained in several models of helos by recent Army Warrant Officer Viet Nam Pilots/Instructor-Pilots, the best- of-the-best! Thank you for your Service!
That base is all underground now, but yes the Navy has had the "ufos" for decades and they fly around all the time. Hence the one the pentagon "released" LMAO
@@wenkeli1409 Right, and I see F-22s carrying them quite frequently. They even carry the tanks during peacetime "intercepts", especially in Alaska, I think, so they can stay with Russian bombers longer before handing off the "escort" duty. It's no big deal because stealth is only required in actual combat or realistic training exercises, anyway. Everywhere else, even when they don't carry external tanks, they carry a small pod that contains Luneburg lenses that strongly reflect radar in all directions, giving them a large radar signature that conceals their stealthy radar signature.
Top Gun - "At least as a pilot, I can be retrained." Colonel - "Yes. Yes you can. And the work you will be doing in your new assignment at The Runit Island Airbase is very important." Top Gun - "Wait, there's no Airbase on Runit Island!" Colonel - "I know."
The officer in the tower at Naval Air Station Fallon wouldn't be a major, he'd be a lieutenant commander or thereabouts. Just saying'... Yeah, a Naval Air Station in the middle of the desert - why not.
this is one of the best segments you've done as it gets into habituated behaviors and maybe complacency. I know you've taken some heat about commenting on accidents and incidents but personally I find these discussions extremely worthwhile. As long as we stay away from overt speculation it's fine. liked and shared. thanks !
I remember hearing and reading about this mishap after it happened back in 2018. Rumors flying around (no pun intended) were saying that the aircraft suffered from a left engine flameout when the pilot throttled up for takeoff and that he had already retracted the landing gear when he realized what had happened. Another F-22 had a similar incident and skidded to a stop on it’s belly a few years before this. It supposedly cost $35 million to repair that aircraft and took over 5 years to complete the repairs but it was returned to service. I’d like to know how extensive the damage was to this Raptor.
There is a common adage about pilots that fly retractable gear aircraft: "There are two kind of pilots; those who have landed with the gear up and those who will." Does this accident count toward that pilots movement to membership to the pilots who have landed gear-up?
I'd say no, only because that adage typically refers to pilots forgetting to extend gear when intentionally landing. But, technically he landed gear up, so...
Similar saying in motorcycling. "There are two types of riders, those who have crashed and those who will" Just a saying that keeps you paying attention.
Really appreciate the overview...as a student pilot, I too took note of the altitude difference, and after your review of the data it became pretty clear what actually occurred. This example also serves to remind us that even though in this particular case there was no significant damage to either pilot or aircraft, it's still an important reminder just how often inaccurate journalism can mislead. I'm sure the pilot appreciates this video as well.
After being cleared to fly "Top Gun" reports to mission brief only to find out his next sortie will be him flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong.
Turk's Innovations All the taxes I have ever paid, won’t cover the cost to repair that.... unless it just needs some bondo, a little sanding, and a little paint....
As a former military air traffic controller and having gone to the CAOC air space school at Hurlburt Field. I was wondering if you could explain the the process of transition from the ATC environment to the target area, in your combat experience. What was the chain of control/communications? ie- clearance, ground, tower, departure, then what did you report to? (all the way to the target and back).
As a SP, if you happened to have your first flight in a T-38 in wintertime, coming from the T-37, the instructor would always place a bet on you whether you would be able to get the gear up before you reached overspeed. Many SPs lost the bet. I am surprised however that he could be section lead with only 500 hrs total. In my air force he would be element lead at most.
I’m surprised that the AIB did not dig deeper into WHY the B-course IPs were training their students to fly the airplane in a manner contrary to what was in the tech order? This got started somehow. Until they find the guy/gal who invented this technique, have they really reached root cause? Over the years, there have been a number of aviation accidents that were the result of unauthorized procedures. It is amazing that these things propagate without someone standing up and saying “Wait a minute, if this is OK, why is it not in the tech order?” Bizarre. Another good one, Mover!
What about the spreadsheet that calculates the TOLD numbers - did I hear Mover claim they contained assumptions for sea level whereas Fallon is 4000 ASL, and a temp of 80f vs 46f actual? Two thumbs up on the analysis.
I doubt they were TEACHING the wrong technique. They just weren't emphasizing the correct technique, nor were they correcting the wrong technique, IF it was even spotted.
@@grecco_buckliano Part of the problem is that they are training pilots to fly a single-seat airplane for which there is no 2-seat trainer. So unless the IPs download flight data from the student's airplane or spotted it during a formation takeoff with the student, the problem might be very hard to detect during training flights. STILL, someone was obviously promoting this early rotation technique, because so many were found to be doing it. If it was THAT common, the IPs should have been on top of it. Their job is to keep a finger on the pulse of their student's performance.
Nah, it don't. Despite the massive case of just copy pasting news, there is still well documented news. Only most American's don't read em, because they have the attention span of gold fish.
@@Orcawhale1 If the news ever reports on a story that you are a part of you will quickly realize how they just make things up to fill in the blanks. They do whatever will sell, or whatever spin they want to push. There is no such thing as clean and honest 'news'.
"Poor reporting" This comment is emblematic of Americans' attitudes toward the news media today. But, it isn't because reporters are all lazy or making too many mistakes; unfortunately, it is because Americans have become too politicized and are too biased to consider an article that is well-written (covers the 5 Ws, includes perspectives and quotes from both sides of an issue) as objective and impartial. In other words, fair. Thanks to people like Donald Trump, people now are quick to criticize a journalist or press organization as "fake news" or biased if it reports facts that don't shine a positive light on the politician, business leader, et al. Oh, boo fucking hoo. People are so thin-skinned now; they automatically resort to attacking the press as Public Enemy No. 1 just because it is doing its job. Twenty years ago, corrupt politicians like Trump would have been shunned by members of his own party for the bullshit he is pulling in office; 30 years ago, he'd be impeached. Now, people call him a hero. I look at things in black/white terms. If a public figure such as a politician is acting unethically, immorally, or breaking the law, then he/she deserves to be investigated and or removed from office. If you're the POTUS and there is proof you paid off a porn star, then there is no debate. You deserve to be removed from office. If you bungle the federal government's handling of a pandemic, then you deserve to be investigated and impeached. This is not fake news. This is insanity.
Appreciate your even-keeled analysis of this incident. While anyone with a basic understanding of the principals of flight can pretty easily deduce what went wrong technically, your in-depth review of the behind-the-scenes, institutional problems that normalized his failed procedure makes it both really compelling, and frankly, a bit disconcerting.
I was there that day! Was pretty interesting watching a F22 skid belly down the run way. Of course being F18 Airframe maintainer we walked over to the F22 maintainers to see what happen and talked good Navy to Air Force shit.
WOW !! (No pun intended Mover). You brought back memories when you talked about the WOW switches. I can’t count how many landing gear WOW switches, up and locked switches, doors up, doors down, gear up gear down switches we troubleshot, replaced, adjusted, etc. etc. on our fleet. A landing gear write up is a maintainer’s nightmare. It’s always a Red ‘X” , involves us electricians, hydraulics, crew chiefs, AGE towing out the ground equipment, towing the plane into the hangar, jacking up the aircraft, a ground check, an inflight check, whew, I’m out of breath! Another great video brother! (Bill from Slidell)
Thanks for the breakdown! In a significant way mistakes such as this save lives! Minor accidents like this has identified a culture of minor issues that could have become disastrous some day in the future. Which through investigation has helped correct that culture and training issue.
Haha I remember that day, it happened right outside of my hangar. The CO was pissed cause those photos were taken and shared illegally. Absolutely correct towards the end of the Top Gun class different aircraft will be used depending on what's available, I've seen those F-22's as well as more often F-35's
Hi C.W. Lemoine, I am from Singapore. I recently came by your channel and love your content. Keep doing what you're doing. I would really like to read your book, but fail to find it here in Singapore. I would like to respectfully ask you if you are able to import and sell it here in Singapore? Thank you.
POW! Outta nowhere. This video captivated me. I couldn't be farther from involved in flight or the military but I hung on every word. The closest interaction I've ever had to military flight is putting an addition on a hanger at McGuire Air Force Base to accommodate c-130s (2003-ish). Very interesting, engaging and informative with zero condescension from my view. Thank you young man/sir. 🤙
This is probably how you get callsigns like “Skidmark”, “Slip ‘n Slide”, or “Grindr”, and those are probably on the nicer side.
I like Grindr
"TOLDyaso"
"Mr.Plow", "Plowman", "Digger", "Zamboni" ?
hello im satan 1-1 and i drop nuclear bombs on cities to kill innocent childeren
@@Max_R_MaMint lmao yes
I can empathize. I went through the same thing when I was 8 years old. I was kicking up the kickstand prematurely on my Huffy bike with similar results. It was an institutional problem. Most of us had hundreds of hours on our Huffy bikes and other models, so we weren't rookies. All the kids in the neighborhood did it the same way, but the same technique did not work on grass. Apparently, the decrease in CFG (centrifugal force generated) on grass, as opposed to asphalt, was the cause of the problem. Takeoff was performed on visual cues and feel, without regard to the audible warning generated by the playing card-ometer that interacts with the spokes. That auditory cue would have been sufficient to alert the rider that there was insufficient velocity/CFG. Unfortunately, this cue was regularly disregarded by most riders in the neighborhood. It resulted in many dented and scuffed pedals and bars. My incident served to change our training and we successfully conducted operations after with no further incidents.
You put WAY too much thought into your reply. I am impressed. I didn't think anyone could combine analytic analysis and humor.
LOL my English teacher would be impressed by this (which is practically impossible)
Wow you know CFG when you're 8 already?
I know this was two years ago. This was a giggle. Nice Root Cause Analysis Study, or a concluding Problem Management Report, and it's hilarious!
😂 nice one! Gave me a good laugh.
Imagine the heart-dropping, gut-wrenching feeling of this pilot when this occurred.
There you are... sat in a rare, cutting edge $150M aircraft... and you just have to sit there helpless, listening to the sound of metal scraping and the airframe buckling.
forsure. I would be sick with how gut-wrenched my stomach would be.
From the sounds of it, the pilot outwardly does not care.
As well he should feel that way. He should never fly again.
@@wags83 "He should never fly again"
Wtf? What would be the reason for you to say that? Did you watch through the whole video?
Heck, are we even talking about the same video/mishap here?
I'm so confused...
Man it’d be gut wrenching just thinking about how the belly of that raptor looks now
“I’m never going to emotionally recover from this”
Matsimus is this your war thunder mishap??
Hey Matsimus.
eyyyyyyy matsimus
Come on mat you moved to canada not iran, harden up son!:)
I got the joke bud
"gotta look cool in front of the Navy guys" was my guiding philosophy when I worked at Chippendales
Aghh hell yeah.
Lofuckinl
Hilarious
RESCUE RANGERS!
🤣
Wife: "so how was your day, dear?" Husband: "just wait a year and a half and you`ll get a full report of it.."
Lol
"We're moving house"
7 months
You said once pilot call signs can change. is it likely he is now call sign.... 'Slider'?
tbh that would be a badass call sign for a tank driver
I was thinking "Belly Flop".
Skidz?
you win the internet
“Skidmark”
Navy Pilots: "Navy pilots can land on carriers because our landing gear is stronger."
Airforce Pilot: "That's impressive, but who even needs landing gear, hold my beer."
Naval aviators, they’re better than “pilots” lol
israybil32980 just better recruiting because navy life sucks ass.
Army Helicopter Pilot: "We don't need fancy runways."
Department of Defense: "Ok Air Force, You finish that Air Force Base we had to work miracles to pay for?"
Air Force: "Yeah about that. We need money for the runways."
DOD: "What? How do you build an Air Force Base without runways?"
Air Force: "We kind of forgot about runways. All the buildings look great though. Best of the best." 😁
Savage Viking yes, yes I know. I wallowed in the suck for 4 years.
Mr. Lemoine- Thank You for your insights on this incident. My father was a Vietnam era Marine aviator who flew F-8s, F-4s, and F-18s before retirement. This video reminds me of hearing him and some of the other Marines talking shop around the house. Thanks for the great content.
Was his cellphone in airplane mode? 🤣
No but his airplane was in phone mode
@@fademusic1980 lol
Ladies and gentlemen, this is the first time ever, two different people have received the Internet together. Congratulations Robert Lu and Albert Goenner on this landmark event, and congratulations, YOU TWO win and own The Internet, for today.....
Yeah texting and flying what it gets you to lol
If he would have had a 80's Doug masters style cassette player this wouldn't have happened
I'm a NASA contractor/principal investigator doing flight safety research among other tasks. I really enjoy your briefings. I'm always amazed at how near misses/mishaps/accidents happen regardless of steps taken to prevent them. Great site! Best of luck with all of your projects! Thanks!
what about those 3 guys in the capsule............in a pure oxygen environment.............how could it NOT burst into flames and kill them all?? LoL
@@wazza33racer there are theories that this was NASA´s plan all along because Gus Grissom complained about the space program and told the media: how are we supposed to land on the moon with such a trashcan
@@Humbulla93 a dead man tells no tales
Wilson!!!
@@georgecooksey8216 And that's how it's pronounced when people ask me-it's not just wilson....
Great presentation and I understood every word. I've been an AAE (Armchair Aviation Enthusiast) all my life starting from the time when when I was about 4-5 years old watching B-25s taking off from McClellan AFT in Sacramento and B-36s cruising at high altitude from my school yard. Please keep making these excellent videos and stay safe.
I like how many comments are clearly from people who didn't actually watch the video in its entirety.
Jabre Thornton or even the first minutes
I watched 5 seconds, im not interested in the plot, im just forming the big picture with the coments
ACKTUALLY
It's called media-illiteracy, kinda pervasive these days especially when you're accustomed to watching idiot talking heads on MSM.
@@paddybarnes7776 Thanks man. I looked that up, interesting stuff.
Outstanding wrap-up and great job correcting their “journalism.”
... or lack thereof
Ever read a newspaper article about a SCUBA accident? They are lucky to be 20% correct.
@Ramirez Jose Even so, he's right. Nobody trusts the media anymore.
Ramirez Jose Yes I do agree with you to a point. Pressure is applied to us now to live our lives, work performance expectations, family expectations. Expectations to be superman/superwoman. There just is no TIME to do an Internet research deep dive and gather facts in every matter. The media knows that and is taking huge liberties to tell us what they want to tell us - rarely the truth if ever.
Written by a 20 something just outta college kid with no military experience or knowledge of military protocol. Deconstructed by a former pilot who knows what he's talking about. But fake news, right?
This was incredibly interesting. I, for one, enjoy a sensationalised headline being examined by someone with training, experience and knowledge on the subject. Thankyou for taking the time to make this video.
Thankfully it didn't take the loss of the pilot's life to get the problem identified and hopefully corrected. Thank you for breaking down the explanation and making this report understandable .
"what'd you do for cinco de mayo?"
"watched a 30 minute read thru about a fighter pilot crashing his F22."
"Oh. That sucks. You in the Air Force, I take it then?"
"nope..."
"..."
"..."
Hi cw I'm from South Africa looking for battlefield 3 end game the jet fighter game can u pls help me finding it n x plane 11 thanks Dean link to games would help thanks
@@deanraffiedean8666 X-Plane 11 doesn't have a Hornet built in. The included fighter is an F-4. There is an addon Super Hornet by Colimata, but I would not recommend that you buy it. Get the legacy Hornet for DCS instead, it's the golden standard and it's on sale.
@@deanraffiedean8666 definately get the legacy hornet for DCS. it's still in development but its pretty far in. only needs ground radar and a few other features. and dcs is a full combat flight sim so you get more bang for your buck.
@@PatrickRatman thanks Nick for info can u help with that game here in South Africa most guys dnt have it thanks a mill.Dean
Hi Nick I'm from South Africa n I'm trying to purchase dcs flight games abroad can u help me with n link or web site pls guys in South Africa do not have this games thanks n mill.Dean
Thank you. You did an excellent job of unpacking the actual report and laying out the real causes of the mishap. The errors in training were particularly interesting, as was the Air Force's honesty in digging down to the root cause of the problem rather than coming up with a scapegoat/whitewash.
Gotta say, the US military as a whole does a good job of avoiding scapegoats and getting to the root of problems.
They changed his call sign to Skidmark.
Well, still better than Lawndart, ain't it?
@@SPARTAN-yb9dc at ACM WARBIRDS OF CANADA, Team lead is called "SKIDMK" haha! dont ask questions...
Lol.
In my country they don't ever let you step on a plane again if you pull shit like this
Very good 👍
I talked to my father about this years ago, prompted by something different, and he never liked the whole "gear in as soon as possible"-thing. "If the engine cuts out or something happens I don't wanna waste time lowering the gear" was his approach.
True, he flew older generation fighters with less power but they were still able to go super sonic while still over the field if you did not pay attention.
I am happy to see that they did not go the easy and often PC-route and put all the blame on the pilot but instead (hopfully) made sure to correct a systemic error in order to advance correct training and flight safety. Good report.
The fact that the paper got it wrong, well, news at 9. What did anyone expect?
The video explains that the longer you leave the gear down the more likely you are to over stress the gear or the doors
In something like an F16 you’re already climbing really hard to slow the acceleration down as much as possible to give you time to get the gear in, I’d imagine the F22 is even worse.
Raised his nose too early during take off?
Sounds just like every top tier game in War Thunder lmao.
Fucking tail strike then slap the nose back down and break the gear...
Adam Saffell every time
Ah yes the tailstrike engine death
@@TycoonTitian01 Especially migs T_T
can relate especially when using the damn meteor and sea jesus
I can faintly hear my mom "IF jOhnNy RoTaTeS EaRly aRe yoU GonNa RotAte eArlY ToOoOo??"
hahahahahaa
Just because all the other little boys are rotating early doesn't mean . . . .
26:00 “loads of dinosaurs.”
Sir, I haul fuel for a living. Today I delivered over 250,000lbs lbs of fuel. I just want you to know that I will call every load “dinosaurs” after tonight. CPL Roark; out.
We often refer to it as "Turning dead dinosaurs into noise and air pollution."
Dinosaurs make my car go!
@@kgaedtke398 I'm a P3 guy. We turn dinosaurs into smoke at 4000 lbs/hr.
Dino juice
Not to say you can't, but oil comes from algae.
This was an amazing synopsis of events that I could never have gleaned from that newspaper article. Thank you for seeing some warning signs and digging into the report to explain all of this to us. I did a lot of that after Scott Waddle's horrible accident, explaining how the control room can get, especially with VIPs onboard, so people could understand how the problem happened and how those with the answer may have dropped the ball, etc. It gives people a greater appreciation of how difficult and chaotic military operations can be. Great job reading between the lines and helping us understand more of your world!
I'm pretty sure, with the comments I'm seeing, that most people who clicked on this video didn't bother watching the whole thing before they started typing.
Well maybe a lot of dumb prepubescent RUclipsrs, same with Air Force pilots, sad to say. I’m a lightweight that has only has flown Cessnas and I know what to do at high-altitude airports and never ever am I going to retract my gear early, period. Only dummies do that. Discipline is bad in the military and that is that. Drones are the answer, they are not hair-brained.
@@steveperreira5850 "Discipline is bad in the military and that is that." is way overgeneralizing. Like saying "Navy pilots are better because . . .", or "Chevy owners are better because . . .". Truth is humans are human. There are numerous factors here the host/author brought our well.
Isn’t that always the case? It’s almost as if there’s an unwritten internet rule; “thou shalt only read the title & fully form one’s opinion based solely on that. Under no circumstance shalt thou read the entire article in order to learn more information.”
I love how you can pick out in the comments on who watched and didn't watch the whole video.
Really great even-keeled analysis. Appreciate the perspective on how normalization of deviance can affect even the highest caliber aviators. Formal briefings and sticking to the numbers are often the first corners cut once we consider ourselves “proficient” and comfortable in the jet. But they nearly always come back to bite. Why do the enemy a favor?
As a former metalsmith in the Navy with many trips to Fallon I for one appreciate a look at things from the aircrew point of view when ever it presents it's self. Thank you.
He revealed an institutional problem with training I suspect, where TOLD is virtually ignored which led to it not being correctly calculated when away from home.
In a way, it is a good thing it happened like htis,, as no one was hurt - and easily could have been if there had been any kind of weather or the temp had been higher.
Great analysis once again, thanks for the vid :¬)
so he brought to their attention a huge problem with the training that was provided,...probably saving equipment and possibly lives.
Yeah n watch how nobody was at fault or no consequences came to the leaders of these pilots...good ole govt MP lol
@@starfighter1043 too bad he wasn't flying drunk so that he could join the ranks of the American dreamers that drive drunk every weekend to prove have sacred their families are
I guess that’s an inadvertent win for the F/A-18 😂
Imagine him hearing over the radio
"Yeah the F22 that was supposed to hse you as practice crashed on takeoff, so you win"
Maneuver kill!
Another psychological win for the navy over the AF
F/A-18 pilot at the bar: "yeah so I maneuver killed a Raptor on the runway. Do I get to paint that on my nose?"
@@wiryantirta lol
When you mentioned that they checked the oxygen system it reminded me of an incident that happened while I was stationed at Elmendorf in the late 70's. An F-4E flying low level actually flew into a stand of trees. The crazy thing is that they didn't crash and were able to fly home with extensive damage. The pilot was unconscious so the WSO flew the aircraft for thirty minutes to get back on one engine as the #2 flamed out immediately. They parked the aircraft in the hangar that my shop was in. It's amazing it got back. First, when you looked in the #1 intake you could see large pieces of wood literally jammed into the engine blades so it seemed logical that it was the one that flamed out. However, it was the one that kept running. the #2 engine not only had ingested large pieces of wood but also the radome, radar, some of the black boxes located on the right side and the fuselage skin from the large hole in the side of the nose. No wonder it stalled. In addition the glass front windscreen was intact but heavily cracked. The right windscreen and front canopy were gone and the back canopy was cracked so it was a cold flight home. The impact also tore holes in the leading edges and undersides of both wings and the fuselage. The pitot tube on the tail was bent and it actually bent the air frame. The reason I was reminded of this is that the pilots claimed they got dizzy and disoriented so they inspected the oxygen system. This was scary for me as I was an environmental systems tech and the last person to work on the oxygen system although I was sure I hadn't done anything wrong. Fortunately, they concluded that the system was good. The grapevine said what actually happened was that they did an aileron roll over a herd of caribou and when they came out of it there were the trees. What's really screwy is that the aircraft was rebuilt over a period of a few months. The tail number, which I'll never forget, was 66268. You could always tell when it was in the air as it literally crabbed through the air due to the bent air frame.
Luck it was USAF because US NAVY had no WSO controls on F4!
That's NUTS dude! A gem of a story I feel privileged to have learnt. Whod give a 25 year old a Phantom huh?
They don’t fly aircraft whose main frames have been bent and for that reason. They either go on a display pillar in front of wing HQs or they end up at DM.
@@natural-born_pilot Well, they flew this one. I was there. I was involved personally. That aircraft sat right outside my shop door in hangar two for months while it was rebuilt. Don't tell me they didn't fly it. I worked on the rebuild myself. I saw it fly. You don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.
This use to happen quite a lot (well different kinds of misshapes with gear retracted) With the old Draken in the Swedish airforce. They run them on grass fields (yes, jets on grass fields).
Then fun part with the Draken is that it was so robust it could simply just extend the landing gear and raise up the aircraft.
Also being grass fields, it rarely damage the aircraft.
"TopGun69" sounds like a teenager's Xbox gamertag
*65 but yes would be funny
5:06
Sounds like a generic name you'd see on Ace Combat.
It would be funnier if his sign was NoobMaster420_69
needs some "xX...Xx"s and then it'd be an xbox gamertag
3:13
"...And that's how I got my new callsign 'Premature Elevator.'"
The fact that he is still flying is a great example of "whatever doesn't kill you, makes you stronger". Sharing this story with other pilots makes the other pilots wiser too. In fact I think it was Flying magazine that used to have a feature called Aftermath that let general aviation pilots learn from the accidents of their fellow pilots. And I have a story of a belly landing of a Beech 99 (small commuter aircraft) taking off from a snowy upstate New York airfield. The runway hadn't been plowed well enough so on its take off roll, the tires threw hundreds of pounds of slush into the wheel wells putting the aircraft badly over weight. It could only stay airborne in ground effect and landed on it's belly in an open field directly beyond the runway. No fatalities fortunately. But you just never know what can go wrong.
Loved the "I've got more dinosaurs I can throw out the back of this thing" comment!
Mover, outstanding job debriefing this mishap. I'm never one to judge another but rather think if that happened to him, could be me next. You highlighted some truly universal key takeaways.. incomplete / incorrect TOLD data, 2 indications of climb, etc. -m-
"Organizational Overconfidence in Equipment" is such a hilarious and accurate term. Its also amazingly relatable, even across job fields.
I work in Cybersecurity, hearing this story and that term was an instant flashback to getting a new client at work that had a worse system resource to amount of data ratio.
So as a team we had built a habit of running inefficient log searches. Because who cares if a search that is supposed to complete in .05 seconds completes in .5 seconds. You're not noticing the difference much.
But you change those to 1 minute and 10 minutes, we have a very situation. So it was this sorta retraining and google fu scramble to get our searching technique back to where it should've been.
Just thought it be interesting to share how familiar this story can be. Also, this was an amazing breakdown to make this report understandable to a complete non pilot like myself.
It bothers me how aggressive thje journalist was against the pilot....
An anti-military “reporter” *gasp* no way!
Sensationalism at it's finest
Gone are the days where non-biased and non-emotional journalism were the standard.
"Journalists" like these are useless. Funny how they look down at people who actually have courage to do dangerous and productive jobs.
especially since he probably could not even name a single thing on the plane
New call sign: “ASS-FAULT”
New call sign... "Not a F22 pilot anymore"
Only an AF pilot can cause hundreds of millions in damages and in investigations and still hold their job ("too big to fail").
@@anonypersona3189 Come to think about it, he has 350 flight hours… even if he spent most of the time in an F-16, this would still amount to several million dollars.
BINGO!
YOU MADE LAUGH.
thank you.
They just spend millions on teaching him a lesson about takeoff, do you think they want that to go to waste?
Thanks Mover for putting that in perspective for me you do a great job. Tyndall was my favorite assignment was flying with the 475th Test Sq seven years. Most interesting time in my life. Flew in three William Tells and all kinds of test programs going on at the time. The Air Force needed something better than the Dart to test and qualify the gun in the new F-15 and F-106A gun program at the time. We had to rig a new 30 ft fiberglass target with bullet scorer attached to an F-101B and quickly configure it to use for these programs. We drug it off the runway 100 ft behind the F-101, reeled it out to 2,000 ft over the range and flew head on passes with the F-15 pulling 5 G turns just before it fired. It was fun but best part was if it wasn’t shot off the cable we’d reel it back in to 100 ft and fly 35 ft above the runway and cut the cable to let it drag down the runway to a stop. Of course we set it down in the middle but the target never went straight and always took one or two runway lights with it. Some crazy and wild times.
Author of article - *watches infographics*
Author of article - “since infographics said you need 1500hrs to fly for an airline 500hrs must be a rookie.”
500 isn't a lot of hours. Not quite rookie status (as the word implies a student pilot or something) but that's exactly what I assume the writer meant. He saw 500 hours and knew it isn't a lot of experience. The mistake was a rookie one even if the pilot wasn't truly a novice.
Jay Perrin 13:00
@@Aviator27J You can't judge fighter hours by the same as other non-limited airframes. They have a very limited fleet (I think 186 left now), with limited hours before the airframes life out.
500 hours isn't much by some measures, but in an F22 it's a decent number.
Only armchair cowboys can throw cuts and jabs without ever being qualified to fly or putting their ass on the line with a pair to defend their freedom. Pay back or give something back not required with them nope mommy and daddy protect them. Mommy I need the latest computer out.... mommy there’s a new brand of sneakers out that’s become the fad get them for me.
@@KrikkitWarlord oh yes he can he’s an experienced armchair know it all with 2.5 hours chair time.
"you go to the airspace under Top Gun 69..."
Nice
glad i wasnt the only one that noticed that lol
Nice
Nice
Sounds like radio chatter on a Airforceproud95 video.
Love C.W. Lemoine. As a former Naval Aviator myself, his detail and memory of things is absolutely incredible. The weight of wheels click is one of many little details. Keep it up, it always brings back great memories every time I see you dissect something.
Thanks Mover. It's incredibly useful to have expert analysis of the AIB reports. And the interview with Noonen was awesome!
All I want to know is did they change his call sign to "Slip & Slide" after this?
Todd Miller or Sparks, Sparky...
@onions Slider... *sniff*... you stink.
Or Belly flop :-)
we had a helicopter pilot (CO of the squadron) who had the callsign "skids". doing landings on the back of a frigate and you leave the brakes on for obvious reasons. but when you come back to base and the ATC demands a rolling landing..you need to take the brakes off. oops. this was HSL-94 out of willow grove,PA back in the early 90's and the CO's name was Mclaughlin. otherwise a good CO. really gave a damn about the people under him.
Or Spam-in-can
MP: "120 knots, that's fast enough."
Charlie: "Well, that's a big gamble with a $140 million plane."
This never would have happened to Doug Masters.
I saw him in an declassified documentary where he landed on an enemy runway under fire! Masters is still our top ace, i am pretty sure.
There is a reason he has the last name Masters and the call sign Iron Eagle! Best pilot ever! And that documentary they did on him, his old man and Chappie was spot on! As an Air Force vet I've always thought that series (Iron Eagle 1 - Iron Eagle 17) were great training films.
Chappy Approves!
It's hilarious that I come across this, because the first thought that entered my head when I read the headline was "Way to go, Doug Masters." lmao
Umm, but Doug Masters, like goose, IS DEAD!!!!
Debrief: ‘Well, let’s start with the take-off. Low average. I think we can skip the rest of the sortie’. 😂
"" HEY MAV,,,, YOU STILL HAVE THAT NUMBER FOR THAT TRUCK DRIVING SCHOOL???"
or he should just become a photographer.
Your looking For Swift Transport :)
He'll probably just end up flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong.
"Top Gun 6-9...or whatever"
Nice.
greyman419 nice
Nice.
Nice.
nice.
Nice.
Mover, as I watch more and more of your work the thing that keeps me coming back is your positive attitude. You could have dumped all over this guy but you didn't. I have to assume he gets some ribbing for it, I expect face to face you'd almost be required to deliver some yourself but here, in this forum, pure professionalism. I came into this expecting a chuckle at this pilot's expense, instead I got an adjustment and an education. Strong work, thanks for your efforts, and I look forward to the next.
This is why I’ve always referred to landing gear as “Spark Arresters” LOL
Crashing an F22
Ooof that sounds expensive
Duct tape and some paint? ;)
The damage doesn't look that bad the aircraft is probably reparable.
@@jamesricker3997 If a war plane designed for combat can't be repaired after that misshap, then I would be very concerned.
@@DonVigaDeFierro sure it can be repaired but it sure will be expensive even if its just the surface. This isnt a A-10 Warthog after all.
@@DonVigaDeFierro It wasn't really designed to take much of a beating, as things like speed and maneuverability are more important.
I guess they figured since it was a graduation he must be a "rookie" that has never flown before... because obviously that's how it works, you don't get to fly until you graduate 😂
I've learned more in the last 25 minutes than I have in a few days. Thanks for clearing the bait title in the article!
Top Gun 65: "I'm about to wreck this man's whole career"
Chain of Command: "Who's mine?"
I can think of a few times when I was in the Air Foce in which the Technical Orders were wrong or incorrect. For example once I was working on a -95 gas turbine start cart and it needed a shim adjustment on the igniter spacing. Well the T.O. had a mathematical formula to figure out the size and number of shims. Well the math seemed wrong to me so I asked my NCO and we messed with it and it seemed wrong. So we finally had someone in the flight that was studying engineering and said the formula was wrong.
So we turned in a form you use to report errors or mistakes in T.O. and it gets reviewed. It turned out in the last T.O update this chart had been changed but the change had the wrong formula.
Whose*
TheRabbitFear you must be fun at parties
TheRabbitFear *Whomst’dve
@@desks3674 I would be
@@TheRabbitFear Nobody cares
"You got the number of that truck driving school, Truck Masters I think it was? I might need that."
John Scott nice. Most people won’t get that!
LOL..
@@Old_Veteran_Aviator that goosed me
Thanks!
Lmao “pushing a lot of dinosaurs out the back”, this is an amazing phrase
I want to make a bumper sticker that says that for my diesel😂😂
How have you never heard that. In the UK we use it as a remark about powerful cars.
Took me a second to realize it was a reference to, well, fossil fuels.
It isn't accurate though, dinasours don't make up the oil we pump up. Oil was formed from organisms that lived way earlier than dinos, mostly algae and ocean plat things
@@Lucke189 your THAT guy
That's how you get a call sign like "Skid Mark" or "Slider" 😂🤣😂
or "Scooch" or "Scuffy".....or "Pancake".
LMFAOOOOOOOO
Now we know why Slider was a rear seater in Top Gun.
This dude straight up stole two comments at the same time. Impressive.
As a former mere small-helicopter and fixed-wing police pilot, 6770 hrs total, with 1300 hrs f/w time I was blown away with this advanced dissertation. Awesome work. I only wish he spoke more slowly, at age 62 I must be getting a bit slow on the take. Flying as a retirement hobby is now too expensive, so there. I was (luckily) trained in several models of helos by recent Army Warrant Officer Viet Nam Pilots/Instructor-Pilots, the best- of-the-best! Thank you for your Service!
He must have switched from a flying saucer at Area 51, and forgot he was in a far more basic F-22...
That base is all underground now, but yes the Navy has had the "ufos" for decades and they fly around all the time. Hence the one the pentagon "released" LMAO
@Tyler 324 And the Nazis got them from the ancient Egyptians!
Props to the AF for not throwing the pilot under the bus.
Pilots are expensive these days.
Believe me, if he had deserved to be thrown under the bus, they'd have no problem doing it.
I hope this Raptor's pilot career is not ruined. Fleet ADM Nimitz was Courts Martialed for running his ship aground as a young junior officer.
I believe that is the first picture I've ever seen with an F-22 carrying tanks.
Agreed. And they seem super stealth friendly with the round shape!
All other gen 5 fighters can carry them too. Obviously they won't be seen anywhere near them in combat situations.
Ferry tanks, there were pictures of the F-22 with them on when they were ferrying to Japan if I recall.
@@wenkeli1409 Right, and I see F-22s carrying them quite frequently. They even carry the tanks during peacetime "intercepts", especially in Alaska, I think, so they can stay with Russian bombers longer before handing off the "escort" duty. It's no big deal because stealth is only required in actual combat or realistic training exercises, anyway. Everywhere else, even when they don't carry external tanks, they carry a small pod that contains Luneburg lenses that strongly reflect radar in all directions, giving them a large radar signature that conceals their stealthy radar signature.
@@Youtubax You're being sarcastic, right?
I'm hoping the pilots new call sign is "Top Gear"
LMAO! or skid.
Underrated comment
Top Gun - "At least as a pilot, I can be retrained."
Colonel - "Yes. Yes you can. And the work you will be doing in your new assignment at The Runit Island Airbase is very important."
Top Gun - "Wait, there's no Airbase on Runit Island!"
Colonel - "I know."
"Don't be the reason for a safety brief or have a rule named after you"
Well, he definitely broke one of those rules
The guys in the tower were just watching him slide by.
Airman: Uh, major, does that look right to you?
Major: F*****g Air Force pilots!
No no no I said "Negative Ghostrider the pattern is closed!!"
The officer in the tower at Naval Air Station Fallon wouldn't be a major, he'd be a lieutenant commander or thereabouts. Just saying'...
Yeah, a Naval Air Station in the middle of the desert - why not.
😂🤣😭
I didn't know you could drift an F-22 - euro beat intensifies
@@richardhockey8442 Toyota drift that plane
this is one of the best segments you've done as it gets into habituated behaviors and maybe complacency. I know you've taken some heat about commenting on accidents and incidents but personally I find these discussions extremely worthwhile. As long as we stay away from overt speculation it's fine. liked and shared. thanks !
I remember hearing and reading about this mishap after it happened back in 2018. Rumors flying around (no pun intended) were saying that the aircraft suffered from a left engine flameout when the pilot throttled up for takeoff and that he had already retracted the landing gear when he realized what had happened. Another F-22 had a similar incident and skidded to a stop on it’s belly a few years before this. It supposedly cost $35 million to repair that aircraft and took over 5 years to complete the repairs but it was returned to service. I’d like to know how extensive the damage was to this Raptor.
"Why do you do that?"
"Because that's the way we've always done it."
That's exactly my takeaway. Sounds like that's what he told the boss, and it turned out to be true.
Reviews of this nature are important, good findings, identification of problems and corrective actions- well done. Thanks 'Mover' :)
There is a common adage about pilots that fly retractable gear aircraft: "There are two kind of pilots; those who have landed with the gear up and those who will."
Does this accident count toward that pilots movement to membership to the pilots who have landed gear-up?
I'd say no, only because that adage typically refers to pilots forgetting to extend gear when intentionally landing. But, technically he landed gear up, so...
You can't land when you're not flying.
Similar saying in motorcycling. "There are two types of riders, those who have crashed and those who will" Just a saying that keeps you paying attention.
@@brinx8634 🤔
@Jason Bowman This is an immutable law of flying. Check the bolts!
all people make mistakes sooner or later, the most important thing the pilot is alive
Guys I found the spy.
@@Dunkopf actually you find someone who has common sense also he wouldn't be a very good spy considering his name
@@andrewmoore7022 AH HAA! you see that was just a CLEVER RUSE to lure out the real SPY into revealing himself. YOU!
Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing
@@FlightDreamz people say that until they start flying lol
Really appreciate the overview...as a student pilot, I too took note of the altitude difference, and after your review of the data it became pretty clear what actually occurred. This example also serves to remind us that even though in this particular case there was no significant damage to either pilot or aircraft, it's still an important reminder just how often inaccurate journalism can mislead. I'm sure the pilot appreciates this video as well.
After being cleared to fly "Top Gun" reports to mission brief only to find out his next sortie will be him flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong.
In the current civilian aviation community that job now counts as having job security.
andrew voll F in the chat for this guy
Fly something from Communist China out of Hong Kong? Good luck with that Maverick.
@@SPARTAN-yb9dc he will be fine, institutional training problem that most F22 pilots were doing
He'll be very, very lucky if he gets to fly anything out of anywhere 🤣
Seeing that raptor sitting on it's belly hurts something fierce.
- but "something fierce" had it coming to him...
Turk's Innovations
All the taxes I have ever paid, won’t cover the cost to repair that.... unless it just needs some bondo, a little sanding, and a little paint....
Rick Sanchez C137 - This. The cost of these machines is hard to fathom.
“You crashed and your callsign is Top Gun??”
“Well Sir, I never said I was Top Pilot!”
At 50$ a month he should have that paid off in the year 4591.
$140M @ $50./mo puts it closer to the year 235,351.
@@MakesCents.02 Give the guy a little hope, would ya?
It will buff out and then a $100 maco paint job and good as new
@@tomr3422 That's the spirit!
@@Waltham1892 Pfft, I'll do you one better. Just spray her with some good ol' plasti-dip!
New callsign:
A. Training Wheels
B. Bellyflop
C. Skidmark
D. Pullout
Training Wheels...hostile renaming :)
What about Top Gear?
@@JericoLionhearth LOL, I like it.
Bandicoot
Forgot Road Rash (from another commenter).
As a former military air traffic controller and having gone to the CAOC air space school at Hurlburt Field. I was wondering if you could explain the the process of transition from the ATC environment to the target area, in your combat experience. What was the chain of control/communications? ie- clearance, ground, tower, departure, then what did you report to? (all the way to the target and back).
As a SP, if you happened to have your first flight in a T-38 in wintertime, coming from the T-37, the instructor would always place a bet on you whether you would be able to get the gear up before you reached overspeed. Many SPs lost the bet. I am surprised however that he could be section lead with only 500 hrs total. In my air force he would be element lead at most.
I’m surprised that the AIB did not dig deeper into WHY the B-course IPs were training their students to fly the airplane in a manner contrary to what was in the tech order? This got started somehow. Until they find the guy/gal who invented this technique, have they really reached root cause? Over the years, there have been a number of aviation accidents that were the result of unauthorized procedures. It is amazing that these things propagate without someone standing up and saying “Wait a minute, if this is OK, why is it not in the tech order?” Bizarre. Another good one, Mover!
What about the spreadsheet that calculates the TOLD numbers - did I hear Mover claim they contained assumptions for sea level whereas Fallon is 4000 ASL, and a temp of 80f vs 46f actual?
Two thumbs up on the analysis.
I doubt they were TEACHING the wrong technique. They just weren't emphasizing the correct technique, nor were they correcting the wrong technique, IF it was even spotted.
@@grecco_buckliano Part of the problem is that they are training pilots to fly a single-seat airplane for which there is no 2-seat trainer. So unless the IPs download flight data from the student's airplane or spotted it during a formation takeoff with the student, the problem might be very hard to detect during training flights. STILL, someone was obviously promoting this early rotation technique, because so many were found to be doing it. If it was THAT common, the IPs should have been on top of it. Their job is to keep a finger on the pulse of their student's performance.
Excellent breakdown CW. You knowledge and experience shows.
"Poor reporting." That sums up the mainstream news media.
Nah, it don't. Despite the massive case of just copy pasting news, there is still well documented news.
Only most American's don't read em, because they have the attention span of gold fish.
@@Orcawhale1 If the news ever reports on a story that you are a part of you will quickly realize how they just make things up to fill in the blanks. They do whatever will sell, or whatever spin they want to push. There is no such thing as clean and honest 'news'.
You see an article by "Tribunist" and make the conclusion "yup, this is an example of the mainstream news media"? Give me strength.
@@wloffblizz I never said the Tribunist was an example of mainstream media. But maybe I should have used the word "most" instead of "mainstream."
"Poor reporting"
This comment is emblematic of Americans' attitudes toward the news media today. But, it isn't because reporters are all lazy or making too many mistakes; unfortunately, it is because Americans have become too politicized and are too biased to consider an article that is well-written (covers the 5 Ws, includes perspectives and quotes from both sides of an issue) as objective and impartial. In other words, fair. Thanks to people like Donald Trump, people now are quick to criticize a journalist or press organization as "fake news" or biased if it reports facts that don't shine a positive light on the politician, business leader, et al. Oh, boo fucking hoo. People are so thin-skinned now; they automatically resort to attacking the press as Public Enemy No. 1 just because it is doing its job. Twenty years ago, corrupt politicians like Trump would have been shunned by members of his own party for the bullshit he is pulling in office; 30 years ago, he'd be impeached. Now, people call him a hero.
I look at things in black/white terms. If a public figure such as a politician is acting unethically, immorally, or breaking the law, then he/she deserves to be investigated and or removed from office. If you're the POTUS and there is proof you paid off a porn star, then there is no debate. You deserve to be removed from office. If you bungle the federal government's handling of a pandemic, then you deserve to be investigated and impeached. This is not fake news. This is insanity.
"its not a one mistake navy or air force..."
*laughs in Maintainer*
Person: Oh you have that app on your phone?
Pilot: No, Grinder is my new callsign.
Appreciate your even-keeled analysis of this incident. While anyone with a basic understanding of the principals of flight can pretty easily deduce what went wrong technically, your in-depth review of the behind-the-scenes, institutional problems that normalized his failed procedure makes it both really compelling, and frankly, a bit disconcerting.
I was there that day! Was pretty interesting watching a F22 skid belly down the run way. Of course being F18 Airframe maintainer we walked over to the F22 maintainers to see what happen and talked good Navy to Air Force shit.
...you was onsite? surely as a Navy man, your English/American writing skills would be better?
WOW !! (No pun intended Mover). You brought back memories when you talked about the WOW switches. I can’t count how many landing gear WOW switches, up and locked switches, doors up, doors down, gear up gear down switches we troubleshot, replaced, adjusted, etc. etc. on our fleet. A landing gear write up is a maintainer’s nightmare. It’s always a Red ‘X” , involves us electricians, hydraulics, crew chiefs, AGE towing out the ground equipment, towing the plane into the hangar, jacking up the aircraft, a ground check, an inflight check, whew, I’m out of breath! Another great video brother! (Bill from Slidell)
Thanks for the breakdown! In a significant way mistakes such as this save lives! Minor accidents like this has identified a culture of minor issues that could have become disastrous some day in the future. Which through investigation has helped correct that culture and training issue.
Haha I remember that day, it happened right outside of my hangar. The CO was pissed cause those photos were taken and shared illegally. Absolutely correct towards the end of the Top Gun class different aircraft will be used depending on what's available, I've seen those F-22's as well as more often F-35's
I always learn so much from this channel. Thank you, Mover.
That's how the media get away with it; they rely on the majority of readers/viewers having no knowledge of the subject, so they can BS all they want.
Hi C.W. Lemoine, I am from Singapore. I recently came by your channel and love your content. Keep doing what you're doing. I would really like to read your book, but fail to find it here in Singapore. I would like to respectfully ask you if you are able to import and sell it here in Singapore? Thank you.
If you can’t get a physical copy, you can always get the digital or audiobook version. Good luck!
Hi fellow countryman 😆
FLIPL and “Statement of Charges” would be two phrases he’d never forget if he was in the Army.
POW! Outta nowhere. This video captivated me. I couldn't be farther from involved in flight or the military but I hung on every word. The closest interaction I've ever had to military flight is putting an addition on a hanger at McGuire Air Force Base to accommodate c-130s (2003-ish). Very interesting, engaging and informative with zero condescension from my view.
Thank you young man/sir. 🤙
"Roadrash" seems the best new callsign.
Haha I was thinking "Skid"
@@D.Zeeveld Well, that's better than Skidmark…
DEAD MEAT
Barry Allard maybe “Toady” Since he flies like one.