I know that I'm am 5years late after you posted this video, but I think this helps explain the mentality of yours in constant "re-creation" in the wooden frames the different types of equipment you make. By understanding how they are designed, you find ways to simplify them and a more efficient methods of service. Back in the 90's when I worked in a furniture factory in Missouri. They one of these Con-Flab-Trapions. I don't think it was the same brand as this FELDERS, but it did the same 3 basic operations. They only had it setup to use the shaper. And I remember what an aggravation it was to change the cutter heads on. We were milling 4"x6" post for bed frames. Thanks for reminding me how much I disliked using it.
Well, that shaper has tounge and grooved all the wall paneling for three cottages and one house! You'd probably burn out more than a few routers and bits trying to do that with routers.
I know what you mean. I was only a tolerated guest when I used the shop. Taking turns on the table saw sucked, and there is only one workbench to really work on. And in later years, the shop was too disorderly for me to want to do much in there. Cleaned up now. but for the most part, I prefer my own shop. The equipment in my shop is much better tuned up.
Felder has come a long way since the 80's. That machine reminds me of my first combo, the Robland X31 from Laguna Tools that I bought in 1991. I am a proud owner of the Felder CF741P and love it. Nice video BTW.
I have a 2006 Minimax CU410 Elite, boy have the machines come along way! I love my machine and all it's functions, my sliders capacity is 8.5' so processing 4x8 sheet of ply is no problem for one person. And the 16" jointer / planer makes processing rough lumber a joy. Some people either love them or despise them... I guess that's with any machine.
Combination machines are a pain in the ass. Escpecially switching from saw to shaoper. If I was using it, I'd put a north american style saw next to it and use that for all but the biggest saw cuts. And then I'd probably leave the saw set up in shaper mode much of the time.
Wow your Felder is awesome. The shop and equipment are for most woodworkers a lifetime dream to have it.. It would be great for you to be the next owner of it all. . I enjoy your videos, good luck.
Our high school wood shop has the American equivalent, an Oliver 88-DU the thing is from the same era (1983), is designed for an 18" blade, came with a 3" x 18" stack dado set, weighs 2400 lbs, has a sliding table, and is made completely of cast iron and steel! They definitely don't make table saws like they used to!
It's would be tempting. But - saws with motor brakes have index pins on the arbour flange. If you try to brake the blade with the motor, momentum has a tendency to undo the arbor nut!
I've spent the last 3 years cleaning out my father's shop. Most of the equipment in it was too old and dangerous to bring to my shop or I had a newer model. Sadly, most of the heavy equipment no one wanted and some of it ended up as scrap metal.
+Paul Smyers And cleave you in half if it ever failed somehow. I had a router bit's bearing explode once. Luckily it was while copying a cutout in a large sheet so it was setup on the ground and I was standing on top. Would have needed a lot more than just a change of underwear otherwise.
The saw looks pretty much like the Hammer series - that the fence deflects easily is not that of an issue at the newer models - the pretty cool feature is you can pull the fence out to the back - you wont need it anways while crosscutting, even the fence profile looks like it can be flipped to a horizontal position which comes in pretty handy if you cut very flat pieces i wonder if those features are possible with your old saw
What a beautiful machine. That much cast iron-steel-concrete??? can't be wrong. If it where mine I would lavish it with a good cleaning/maintenance and soup it up a little to over come it's short comings. I hope to some day put a Felder in my tiny shop, so jealous.
Hello Matthias, I'm a big fan of your movies. Your dads shop is a dream. I see his saw has a sliding table. You seem to prefer saw tables with sleds. Maybe you could do a clip on sliding table vs sled. (I only worked with sliding table) With kind regards Lucas de Jong
Based on the features, I would guess that this saw is only really ideal if you're making cabinet doors or interior doors (by the set). Otherwise, there's just too much set-up involved for nothing. It's still a really neat tool, and it looks very well made. I don't really know anything about the company.
I heard Webster's defined an antique as something 100 years old. So I suppose this is just old and cool. I always like it when you go to your Dad's shop. I am surprised I missed this from 2013 I was sure I 'd watched all your videos.
+Greg Altenhofel Not actually true: something is called an antique when it is a representative object of a earlier period. In furniture, periods might indeed be 100 years long. But in computers, for example, any computer of the 70s or 80s will certainly be an antique. Related to the definition, of course, is the question of the 'antique-value' of an object: one could argue that something is a genuine antique when its value is increased significantly because of its age.
Paul Frederick Lol a computer from the 70s trash? Not likely. Those things are worth quite some money. An Altair 8800 in mint condition will land you in upwards of $4000. And Sinclair ZX80's go for $350. Only a fool would call it trash.
I think we need to take a crash course to operate this machine, I found really cool is an optimal memory of his father. Parabens. Everaldo Seckler. GDM
Although some people find the old iron clunky.........................there is a beauty in their beefiness which simply cannot be found in modern machinery. Felder made some wonderful pieces. I love seeing these old tools given a new life. I take it this is now in your shop?
This thing has a certain 70s-80s design logic to it-- trying to combine all the tools in the shop into one. I recall someone gave me a kitchen appliance from the same era that was supposed to blend, grind, purée, stir, whip, slice, extract juice, grate, dice, liquefy, knead dough, plus probably several other functions I've forgotten. It really could do all those things, some better than others, but there were so many detachable parts to fiddle with and clean and store and keep up with that it really wasn't very convenient. Also, some of the key parts were fragile plastic, which, of course, broke. I don't know what ever happened to that thing-- it's probably somewhere under all the other decades-old detritus.
Most european machines are combo machines. And i'm talking top notch machines like felder or scm/minimax. Usually the body is the same and the machine is custom made for you with all your desired add-on. Of course you can buy dedicated tools but for the small shop there is really no need for them.
My german saw (Rapid PK-100) is 10 years older than this one, but feels a lot more thought out in implementation. But it's made as a classical cabinet saw with a sliding table, so it's an old and tested design whereas I get the impression felder was trying something new. Still I prefer the cabinet style saws, feels like they are more versatile and useful for hobbyists and there are a lot of jigs and writing geared towards them.
+Matthias Wandel if you use a multi pole multi throw switch when you turn the power off you connect a dump resistor between the motor terminals the back emf generated by the magnetic fields in the motor is damped and the motor will slow much faster. Essentially the motor shaft acts like a flywheel and the motor acts as a generator once the power is switched off because of the magnetic fields that still exist in the windings. Using a dump resistor is like applying a mechanical drag to the motor but less damaging and slows the motor much faster, it's an exponential drop rather than a more linear one. They're often referred to as a break resistor and the process is known as dynamic breaking. By the way I'm working my way through you're videos and really enjoying them
+DovahkiinYT large dump resistors in the kilowatt ranges are often used for three phase induction motors in heavy industry as well as energy dumps on solar grids and mains power grids. In the olden days when starting a large motor big switched resistor banks were used as starting current limiters and often used as base load resistances when using series wound motors to limit top end speed. All motors generate opposing magnetic fields which produce backfed emf when the first field collapses, this principle is how flyback converters work. In this case the reverse emf keeps the motor spinning after it has been switched off as the fields keep reciprocating each other until the winding internal resistance quenches them. If you use a dump resistor to quench them faster then the motor will slow much faster after you turn it ifg
Sometimes people (me) laugh at children playing car games on consoles, because they move their entire body when they turn. Although I'm not proud to say so, I did something similar when you showed how to raise the blade. You can't see the entire blade towards the end of that segment, and I tried to scroll up in my browser to see the full blade... Great video though, love the videos from the old 'shop!
Depends on your background :) I call mine a workshop but I still go shopping at shops :) a shed is where you store your garden tools and junk, unless it's a potting shed which is closer to a greenhouse, but then you might have a garage where only normal people store cars, others use it as a shed mostly (store junk) or turn it into a workshop or wood shop. My wife says I'm in the garage I say I'm in my workshop 'normal' people say I spend all day in the shed but it's all the same place :)
I don't think he's from the UK, but you may be thinking about Roy Underhill from The Woodwright's shop. There are clips from some of the episodes here on youtube.
Thank you for a very interesting video. The general configuration of your Felder is very like my Titan combination woodworker of the same era save that mine has the planer surfacer in addition. The Italian (San Marino) manufacturer of my machine has ceased to trade whilst Felder continue to produce expensive machines of high quality. Are you certain that the concrete in the Felder was original equipment?
That's quite an interesting machine. Thanks for taking the time to demonstrate it. But, man, it sure looks like a real hassle to use. Dedicated tools sure make life easier. I glad I never bought into the whole ShopSmith (or its many clones) 'thing'.
Wow! Now I see where you got your love of woodworking from. So was this your fathers business? What sort of woodwork did he do? Cabinet maker? .... Thanks for sharing your dad's shop with us Matthias...oh, can I call you Mat?
Wow Felder has come a long way in the last 25 years. I was surprised to see the amount of wobble in the whole unit while raising the blade and changing the angle
Very nice machine! Sure at the time was probably meant to be a table saw/shaper for professional use, where you need to do lots of the same work, instead of changing settings multiple times
I would not try to cut with this hack of a router (shaper)- bit. If this thing spin up right next to me i would run away as fast as I can xD. Was your father not afraid by a tool this big?
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Reminds me of a friend saying "I don't need a shaper. I can put big bits in my router too. My response "what about bits 1 foot in diameter?"
I know that I'm am 5years late after you posted this video, but I think this helps explain the mentality of yours in constant "re-creation" in the wooden frames the different types of equipment you make. By understanding how they are designed, you find ways to simplify them and a more efficient methods of service.
Back in the 90's when I worked in a furniture factory in Missouri. They one of these Con-Flab-Trapions. I don't think it was the same brand as this FELDERS, but it did the same 3 basic operations. They only had it setup to use the shaper. And I remember what an aggravation it was to change the cutter heads on. We were milling 4"x6" post for bed frames. Thanks for reminding me how much I disliked using it.
Well, that shaper has tounge and grooved all the wall paneling for three cottages and one house! You'd probably burn out more than a few routers and bits trying to do that with routers.
Wow did Felder ever come a long way since '86, you're absolutely right
I know what you mean. I was only a tolerated guest when I used the shop. Taking turns on the table saw sucked, and there is only one workbench to really work on. And in later years, the shop was too disorderly for me to want to do much in there. Cleaned up now. but for the most part, I prefer my own shop. The equipment in my shop is much better tuned up.
I am very fascinated with vintage machine. matthias compliments, your father had a nice shop. greetings from Italy.
Your Dad's shop is super charming
Funny, it wasn't an "old machine" when my dad bought it. Where did the time go?
Felder has come a long way since the 80's. That machine reminds me of my first combo, the Robland X31 from Laguna Tools that I bought in 1991. I am a proud owner of the Felder CF741P and love it. Nice video BTW.
I have a 2006 Minimax CU410 Elite, boy have the machines come along way!
I love my machine and all it's functions, my sliders capacity is 8.5' so processing 4x8 sheet of ply is no problem for one person. And the 16" jointer / planer makes processing rough lumber a joy. Some people either love them or despise them... I guess that's with any machine.
Combination machines are a pain in the ass. Escpecially switching from saw to shaoper. If I was using it, I'd put a north american style saw next to it and use that for all but the biggest saw cuts. And then I'd probably leave the saw set up in shaper mode much of the time.
I may be old enough to have one of those saws but I`m thankful I was to busy back then. I enjoy watching your vids
That thing is terrifying. The Euro machines sure have come a long way in a short time.
Wow your Felder is awesome. The shop and equipment are for most woodworkers a lifetime dream to have it.. It would be great for you to be the next owner of it all. . I enjoy your videos, good luck.
Just imagine the sound it made when it hit that fence.
Me encantaría tener esa máquina con quién me contacto?
Actually, my first slot mortiser was inspired by that mortriser. The pantorouter came much later.
Quite the multi-saw! Thank for a blast from the past!👍
I think I'd give up body parts to get my hands on hat beast!
You probably would.
I wanted to see that shaper in action :D
Our high school wood shop has the American equivalent, an Oliver 88-DU the thing is from the same era (1983), is designed for an 18" blade, came with a 3" x 18" stack dado set, weighs 2400 lbs, has a sliding table, and is made completely of cast iron and steel! They definitely don't make table saws like they used to!
It's would be tempting. But - saws with motor brakes have index pins on the arbour flange. If you try to brake the blade with the motor, momentum has a tendency to undo the arbor nut!
I've spent the last 3 years cleaning out my father's shop. Most of the equipment in it was too old and dangerous to bring to my shop or I had a newer model. Sadly, most of the heavy equipment no one wanted and some of it ended up as scrap metal.
So a "shaper" is essentially a table router on steroids? That thing looks like it could cut a bevel into granit.
+Paul Smyers And cleave you in half if it ever failed somehow. I had a router bit's bearing explode once. Luckily it was while copying a cutout in a large sheet so it was setup on the ground and I was standing on top. Would have needed a lot more than just a change of underwear otherwise.
+Paul Smyers Yeah. It's for cutting large mouldings, like the decorative stuff that goes on pillars and ceilings or really large picture frames.
bloody hell..if that blue cutter came loose i don,t think there,d be a workshop left.
actually, it'd remain in it's position, because of gravitation force, and i think that shaper head weighs around 13lbs/6kg
Another great video Matthias! I have not seen machines like this before, very interesting for sure. Thanks for sharing!
What a beast! It looks like you get a good upper body workout just lifting the cast iron attachments on & off. Thanks for sharing.
clear to see where the inspiration came for your pantarouter came from
Very nice wood shop and nice to see an old Felder video, thank you
Felder's improvements over the years. The company now produces the highest quality and functionality machines.
"Pantorouter... I am your father."
Outside of Australia, we call it a "shop". I could use it all I want, but it's 700 km away from where I live.
That machine provides endless hours of entertainment, ... just to change to and from shaper mode!
Matthias could you make a video on your fathers entire shop? I love to see old tools and what they used to look like.
Now I know where some of your tool designs originated. . .must of been fun in that shop growing up! Thanks for the tour . . .Danny
I use to have a hat beast but it kept biting me.
I find it funny how much better your equipment is.
Mathias, would love to see you build one of these homemade!!
The saw looks pretty much like the Hammer series - that the fence deflects easily is not that of an issue at the newer models - the pretty cool feature is you can pull the fence out to the back - you wont need it anways while crosscutting, even the fence profile looks like it can be flipped to a horizontal position which comes in pretty handy if you cut very flat pieces
i wonder if those features are possible with your old saw
It does have some strange limitations but also some great features. Thanks for showing it!
Those saws are awesome the safety features might not be there but the functionality is .
One should mutter, "GOODBYE, MISTER BOND!" before every use of this monster table!
Thanks for sharing Mathias
After seeing those shaper arbour, it make my router table look like a toy
What a beautiful machine. That much cast iron-steel-concrete??? can't be wrong. If it where mine I would lavish it with a good cleaning/maintenance and soup it up a little to over come it's short comings. I hope to some day put a Felder in my tiny shop, so jealous.
Hello Matthias,
I'm a big fan of your movies.
Your dads shop is a dream.
I see his saw has a sliding table. You seem to prefer saw tables with sleds. Maybe you could do a clip on sliding table vs sled. (I only worked with sliding table)
With kind regards Lucas de Jong
B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L !!!! I simply love that saw! My shop would be complete, not to mention I'd be in Heaven! God Bess you and your Dad !
Frank
It's a machine for real men :)
Based on the features, I would guess that this saw is only really ideal if you're making cabinet doors or interior doors (by the set). Otherwise, there's just too much set-up involved for nothing. It's still a really neat tool, and it looks very well made. I don't really know anything about the company.
I heard Webster's defined an antique as something 100 years old. So I suppose this is just old and cool. I always like it when you go to your Dad's shop. I am surprised I missed this from 2013 I was sure I 'd watched all your videos.
+Greg Altenhofel Not actually true: something is called an antique when it is a representative object of a earlier period. In furniture, periods might indeed be 100 years long. But in computers, for example, any computer of the 70s or 80s will certainly be an antique.
Related to the definition, of course, is the question of the 'antique-value' of an object: one could argue that something is a genuine antique when its value is increased significantly because of its age.
+Lukas don computers from the 70s, and 80s are just called trash today.
Paul Frederick
Lol a computer from the 70s trash? Not likely. Those things are worth quite some money. An Altair 8800 in mint condition will land you in upwards of $4000.
And Sinclair ZX80's go for $350.
Only a fool would call it trash.
2:20 no problem, just set up a really long spacer against the fence
Isn’t the saw hitting the fence resolved by using the rip fence rotated 90 degrees?
I think we need to take a crash course to operate this machine, I found really cool is an optimal memory of his father.
Parabens.
Everaldo Seckler.
GDM
Although some people find the old iron clunky.........................there is a beauty in their beefiness which simply cannot be found in modern machinery. Felder made some wonderful pieces. I love seeing these old tools given a new life. I take it this is now in your shop?
This thing has a certain 70s-80s design logic to it-- trying to combine all the tools in the shop into one. I recall someone gave me a kitchen appliance from the same era that was supposed to blend, grind, purée, stir, whip, slice, extract juice, grate, dice, liquefy, knead dough, plus probably several other functions I've forgotten. It really could do all those things, some better than others, but there were so many detachable parts to fiddle with and clean and store and keep up with that it really wasn't very convenient. Also, some of the key parts were fragile plastic, which, of course, broke. I don't know what ever happened to that thing-- it's probably somewhere under all the other decades-old detritus.
Most european machines are combo machines. And i'm talking top notch machines like felder or scm/minimax. Usually the body is the same and the machine is custom made for you with all your desired add-on. Of course you can buy dedicated tools but for the small shop there is really no need for them.
My german saw (Rapid PK-100) is 10 years older than this one, but feels a lot more thought out in implementation. But it's made as a classical cabinet saw with a sliding table, so it's an old and tested design whereas I get the impression felder was trying something new. Still I prefer the cabinet style saws, feels like they are more versatile and useful for hobbyists and there are a lot of jigs and writing geared towards them.
I have to admit I do really like this machine, ever thought of using a dump resistor to dynamic break the motor?
+Spark Gap It's an AC motor, not a DC motor
+Matthias Wandel if you use a multi pole multi throw switch when you turn the power off you connect a dump resistor between the motor terminals the back emf generated by the magnetic fields in the motor is damped and the motor will slow much faster. Essentially the motor shaft acts like a flywheel and the motor acts as a generator once the power is switched off because of the magnetic fields that still exist in the windings. Using a dump resistor is like applying a mechanical drag to the motor but less damaging and slows the motor much faster, it's an exponential drop rather than a more linear one. They're often referred to as a break resistor and the process is known as dynamic breaking. By the way I'm working my way through you're videos and really enjoying them
+DovahkiinYT large dump resistors in the kilowatt ranges are often used for three phase induction motors in heavy industry as well as energy dumps on solar grids and mains power grids. In the olden days when starting a large motor big switched resistor banks were used as starting current limiters and often used as base load resistances when using series wound motors to limit top end speed. All motors generate opposing magnetic fields which produce backfed emf when the first field collapses, this principle is how flyback converters work. In this case the reverse emf keeps the motor spinning after it has been switched off as the fields keep reciprocating each other until the winding internal resistance quenches them. If you use a dump resistor to quench them faster then the motor will slow much faster after you turn it ifg
That's a really impressive piece of machinery. Thanks for sharing it.
There is a show called the Woodwrights Shop, hosted by Roy Underhill but I dont believe that was filmed in the UK.
Sometimes people (me) laugh at children playing car games on consoles, because they move their entire body when they turn. Although I'm not proud to say so, I did something similar when you showed how to raise the blade. You can't see the entire blade towards the end of that segment, and I tried to scroll up in my browser to see the full blade... Great video though, love the videos from the old 'shop!
Depends on your background :) I call mine a workshop but I still go shopping at shops :) a shed is where you store your garden tools and junk, unless it's a potting shed which is closer to a greenhouse, but then you might have a garage where only normal people store cars, others use it as a shed mostly (store junk) or turn it into a workshop or wood shop. My wife says I'm in the garage I say I'm in my workshop 'normal' people say I spend all day in the shed but it's all the same place :)
Andrew Sparrow + As man lowers his character, his language follows.
I don't think he's from the UK, but you may be thinking about Roy Underhill from The Woodwright's shop. There are clips from some of the episodes here on youtube.
Thank you for a very interesting video. The general configuration of your Felder is very like my Titan combination woodworker of the same era save that mine has the planer surfacer in addition. The Italian (San Marino) manufacturer of my machine has ceased to trade whilst Felder continue to produce expensive machines of high quality.
Are you certain that the concrete in the Felder was original equipment?
Wow, that's quite a beast. Did they market it like the Shopsmith Mark 7 infomercials? How much did it cost new?
Are you certain it is in the UK? Your description fits The Woodwright Shop which has been on since 1979. Search You Tube for it.
old good universal machine, but still in good condition, we using in our company Felder K700 tablesaw and Felder FD250 mortiser, both is good machines
That's quite an interesting machine. Thanks for taking the time to demonstrate it. But, man, it sure looks like a real hassle to use. Dedicated tools sure make life easier. I glad I never bought into the whole ShopSmith (or its many clones) 'thing'.
Wow! Now I see where you got your love of woodworking from. So was this your fathers business? What sort of woodwork did he do? Cabinet maker? .... Thanks for sharing your dad's shop with us Matthias...oh, can I call you Mat?
That saw is a BEAST.
That shaper's a beast!
Thats a really cool machine. I love the shaper on it.
Wow Felder has come a long way in the last 25 years. I was surprised to see the amount of wobble in the whole unit while raising the blade and changing the angle
Wayne Lefebvre That's becaues it's on a wooden floor that has some springiness to it. Not the saw's fault.
If it's a 3 phase, Dyna Brake makes a break for this. We put them on our 15" table saws at work.
Custom furiniture and cabinets.
Hello Matthias, very nice saw! But how much rpm does the saw and router have?
That shop is beautiful!
Old yet awesome machine
do they have 380 volt motors in Canada?
It looks like it wouldn't be good for small stuff,but would be great for things like raised panel doors (full size doors)
Basically, it is made for bigger cutters and more extended use.
What an awesome machine, thanks for sharing it with us
Do you plan on doing something with those machines in the future?
Mats i love your videos, what a monster of machine.
This thing looks like it'll last several lifetimes. What an impressive hunk of machinery.
Watch the Felder video where they make a walnut desk! You'll want one after that!
Probably has been asked a lot already but do you still do some work in your dads shop or is it basically left they way it was since he passed away?
*that* (damn missing fingers...)
I think your looking for "The Woodwright's Shop" But the fellow doesn't live in the UK. Either way its great check it out on PBS's website.
What are your thoughts on a Powermatic table saw?
Very nice machine!
Sure at the time was probably meant to be a table saw/shaper for professional use, where you need to do lots of the same work, instead of changing settings multiple times
That thing must have been crazy expensive with all the cutter and shaper heads and various attachments.
In Ireland a shop is where buy stuff, you'd probably call it a store (a store is where we keep stuff).
really really I like this table saw because it's useful for all works
No idea. I'm the wrong person to ask. Try asking another random person.
Neat machine! Makes everything that I own look like a toy ☺️
Felder saws nowadays are the best by far ...
I see where you get your creative side.
The army still uses replacable cutters like those. Only they call them Claymores. Seriously though, the machine has some advantages and disadvantages.
I find all shapers a little scary, but that one is downright horrifying.
Thanks Matt.....great presentation.....
I would not try to cut with this hack of a router (shaper)- bit. If this thing spin up right next to me i would run away as fast as I can xD. Was your father not afraid by a tool this big?
What a beast. I want one.