Did you guys also realize that DS9 did a small preview of these LCARS during "The Visitor" when they were on the Defiant in the future and Dax made a comment that they have to get use to going back to the 2D work station. So this is internally consistent with prior Trek.
Would be cool if they weren't transparent. Makes sense since they're using the same hardlight tech as the EMS, right? They needed that Locutus overlay shot, though.
Lady Wanderer The show isn't that bad, unless a person is intentionally looking for things to bitch about. I'm not saying it's great, old trek is definitely better, but it's good enough to keep my interest. It's not what trek was, but it's a new age and we need to just accept those days are over. I try to look at it through the glass of the fact that it's been better than almost every other popular sci fi franchise lately. This at least gets most of its facts right, while the rest like doctor who and star wars are absolutely destroying canon. Not the highest of praise, but it's something.
@Lady Wanderer its a shame youre not enjoying the show, because there are a lot of people that are, myself included, and it really seems that on a lot of online forums fan theory/friendly debate about lore/canon etc is being rejuvenated in a way i havent seen for quite some time, which im guessing you arent 'as' involved in as you could be, for your own reasons, but thats up to you. thats not to say that everyone agrees that the show is good, if we all agreed that would be boring and there wouldnt be debate. IDIC and all that... one other thing i would say though is this; to say ''have better taste'' is pretty judgemental. taste is subjective, so whos to say that my idea of what is good or not is anymore or less valid than yours or anyone elses? i hope you watch the whole thing though, it would be interesting to see your overall idea of the show when all episodes have aired :-)
@Lady Wanderer You just don't like anything do you? Always pissing on everyone's cornflakes. "Have better taste". Get over yourself, you condescending sourpuss.
The issue I have with this display which I didn't realize until after my review was... Why was the one image of Locutus reversed so that it was facing where a visitor would be sitting in the office and not facing Picard? Our cellphones adjust based on their orientation but 24th century computers don't know where the person is sitting? Oh, wait... They wanted to get that awesome layover shot of Picard and Locutus. Once again, they sacrifice sense for shot.
So it was Bashir that made the refrence. I couldn't remember what the actual reference was, but I knew it was relevant to the discussion. Pretty good for having hadn't seen it for almost a decade I think.
Went back to look at Commodore Oh using her display in Episode 2 when she's dressing down Rizzo for the attack on Dahj. It was our first taste of LCARS on the show and it is similar to what Picard is using here in this episode. Again, they do seem to use less color, but the design is there. You can see more of it in the wider shot that opens the scene (when Rizzo enters). It's not as prominent in the shots where Oh is showing the video of Dahj being attacked. You're definitely right that the other displays we've been seeing haven't looked like that because they haven't been Starfleet displays.
Some people are completely against the Holo-displays. Now, in Discovery's case - I understand. The showrunners were adamant the show was "In Canon" and didn't want to commit to full on reboot, so they kinda set themselves up for critisism. This post TNG show, I like the idea too. They have Holodecks to play and do other proffessional tasks. I'd buy a holo display would likely be feasible. It takes about 1-2 seconds on a manual LCARS display to key in commands. (head cannon that LCARS are a "Shorthand" Command system, each is a Macro command pre-keyed in to a specific terminal. Getting around the Insurrection 2 key press HMS Pinafore thing) But a holographic display changes on the fly and adapts to your input and anticipates the next inquiry and you just need to flex and those Macros trigger leading to a more in depth and effecient system. Also it makes sense the Macros being tied to a system why you have designated consoles like Helm, Ops and Tactical and why time is needed to configure them. You need to key in the commands you need for that display. Yellow button usually brings up the duty roster on the XO panel with calander and awaiting new input. On a Tactical assignment? It needs re configuring so that yellow button takes you to shield harmonics or phaser control. So rather than key in the desired "session" you flick a wrist, maybe state "Tactical mode" and boom.
@@joegrimes9232 I wasn't complaining on the practicality of a holodisplay, just the resolution of one. There's a weapons why computer monitors aren't transparent and you can see the wall behind it. We CAN make them now, but for our eyes to focus on what's in front of us, the colors would need to be deeper. I don't want to watch a video and also SEE through the video
Then future Bashir's wry comment about how they ever coped with manual controls makes sense, his input and ability to just switch sessions and do whatever without neededing a few hours to reconfigure his workstation makes more sense. Also it put's O'Brien out of a plum job he had for years - Keying in Macros. Poor O'Brien
@@joegrimes9232 I think the problem with that logic in Star Trek is DS9 was made back in the late 90s. Computers were not like they are today. Star Trek really did needed to catch up to how we imagine future computers would operate. But like I said, I am not against the concept of holographic displays that's touchable but they need to be not transparent for things like reading and watching videos
Personally I still would like a different color palette. Moreover I think these should be translucent rather than transparent. From a usability standpoint it would make far more sense.
I honestly kinda miss the old pre Lcars thing, as the TMP ships seemed much more mechanical and more real because of that with their buttons, as you gotta figure the more connected something is, the easier it is for someone to screw with it. and also, well are we typing on touchpad computers right now as we type? hell quite honestly what I would like to see is some sort of tech where a keyboard can be made to pop up out of a touch pad I pad type thing on the fly mixed in with the lcars to an extent like the old Jellybean controls of TOS as if you've ever had to type or write with one of those pads, its very difficult to get a good feel out of it, and now your running a ship the size of a small country with it when it comes to the galaxy classes of TNG. and if you think about it, how do you do quick movements with the controls without slamming the ship into something with a flat control with no feel, like you'd need like a gaming equivalent of a giant D pad just to really give the pilot any real control over the ship where the further he pushes towards the end, the faster or stronger it goes in that direction. as that's the thing about the future, we already have the TNG touchpads, and they need some work and those physical controls back to really make them work. as with any science fiction show, its a view of what that era thinks the futures gonna be, and I think that's gonna be the ticket, a hybrid of the two although I wish we'd have a far less cynical and far more logical bunch of writers writing picard right now I must say, as the more you think about all the backup plans the romulans should have had, the harder the premise is to swallow. as the last time I saw writing this bad Tom Paris had gone passed warp 10 with captain janeway and they turned into newts.
OMG, something that looks like something from Trek, I should be thankful, really should. it's just difficult given the rest of the show. feels like a cosmetic renaming sticker slapped on something entirely different to attempt to sell it by proxy of the name. The LCARS does look good, if only it was in a show more optimistic and science fiction-like.
A transparent display works great for film or television. It lets you see the operator's face and the display at the same time. Much better than either cutting back and forth between the display and the face, or looking at the back of a person's head. It especially worked here when they overlapped Picard and Locutus. A great piece of camera/CGI work. In real life, it would be awful. Seeing what's behind the display would at best be distracting and at worst, it will confuse critical information. Sorry, I'm just a huge tech and Trek nerd.
would be nice if this LCARS was everywhere, but as we saw, in most places something totally generic and not Star Trek like is used instead, when this would look so much better. I don't understand these producers
It is Starfleet technology though and average citizens might use something different. I think it's probably explainable enough to make sense in that way. I mean not all alien races would use LCARS either would they?
@@DeathBYDesign666 obviously, i was referring to other interfaces used by Starfleet, like for instance in first few episodes we saw ones that were not LCARS looking at all. I was thinking more if we were to see say a Starfleet ship or something else Starfleet related that they would use this LCARS interface, alien ships would obviously use something that would fit them, or civilian ships would use something other than LCARS as i see it like a Starfleet only operating system, and civilans would use something else, like today we got Windows, Linux, Mac and so on which are civilian operating systems and then there is military and such who use their own
Than you weren't being specific enough. It's important to articulate exactly what you mean. A simple correction like "used by Starfleet" would clear up such misunderstandings in the future.
they mirrored the shot of Locutus just because they wanted to superimpose it on him from the other side of the screen (for us) . also why did it have the enterprise D viewscreen in that shot . it felt like a lazy screen grab that doesn't make sense
The Captain's Tng Lcars, then his reflection is actually brilliant. I can almost imagine an alternate universe Season 8 of TNG where First Contact hasn't happened and now has the Borg return and in his ready room Picard does his research at first lingering on Hugh, reflecting on his decision to return him without the Virus, then as he ponders the implication of perhaps the annihilation of a species for his own, the image of Locutus pops up. .Disturbed, he sits for a moment, rubs his temple and shuts off the screen, the reflection of Picard in it's place. Promptly, he stands from his desk. Straightens his tunic and turns to the viewport, "Computer... Berlioz"
I'm largely indifferent about the use of LCARS. Yes, I prefer the aesthetics for a TNG-era computer control panel even if it's holographic, but do I believe it's mandatory? No. Computers ride the waves of fashion just like everything else. We've seen it through the different generations of operating systems over the decades, why not in Star Trek? Granted, by the time technology achieves the sophistication seen in Trek changes will likely occur much slower, but there will still be changes.
@@BlodyTi It does neither and makes the show harder to see and thus harder to understand or connect. "Bulky" tech didn't hurt any other sci-fi show, and if you can barely make it out, whether creative choices you have are limited and ineffective. Solution: just make the images solid. Just like every hologram in the older shows. Transition to opaque when the person needs to see through it or portions of it. Let the AUDIENCE see what they are looking at. And have a reason for everything on the screen...nothing random for the sake of looks.
@@SignoftheMagi I think Blody Ti may have been referring to the reason why holographic displays are used instead of monitors in this time period. If I could have a holography setup in lieu of flat-screen monitors, I would. Not only would it free up a ton of space on my desk but look much cleaner when not in use. There are functional reasons to prefer them. In regards to this episode, the effect from the face superposition scene would have been entirely lost if a standard opaque display was used. But, your point is well taken. I would also want the holography to be as opaque as possible. Can't imagine professionals using Adobe Premiere or Photoshop with translucent displays, holographic or otherwise. It would be impractical to impossible for a number of reasons. I expect these holographic displays are adjustable in levels of transparency. We'll see if that is shown in future episodes.
Nobody seems to recall that this actually is a part of future star trek canon. Remember back to the episode of ds9 when Jake had to save his father from being stuck in time. It's a short line of dialogue, but the doctor mentions to Dax about having to remember how to operate the standard displays and having gotten used to using holographic interfaces instead.
@@DeathBYDesign666 That is so obscure a reference unless someone watched the episode you're referring to recently it would have been quickly forgotten. Great you remembered that dialogue.
A real screen with you seeing his reflection and his reaction would be far nicer. IMHO holographic displays like this are OK...but the semi-transparent nature causes so much to be lost, especially in a brighter environment. Just imagine actually trying to use a display like that for anything - forget glare, even having any lights on would wash out any dark scenes to being completely invisible. Holo controls/displays only work where you just need bright manipulation areas and the dark or empty negative space allows for better visibility. For what he was doing, definitely not. I can only imaging the headache one would get after a few hours trying to look at that sort of thing for reading and actually trying to research anything at all.
Oh, come on! Computer displays are always changing, whenever there are new system updates. That should not matter. "Oh, but that's not 'Star Trek' enough!" Ugh.
@@thaynealexander The audience was asked for his or her opinion, and I gave MINE. Also, the TNG LCARS preference is just that: a preference. It has nothing to do with "logic".
That LCARS Locutus moment was perfect.
People discussing their love of LCARS, this is what youtube was made for.
seeing LCARS made me happy
“I love Star Trek computers...” right as his display malfunctions
I was wondering if you guys would do a video on this. Once I saw that panel, I actually smiled. This panel was done perfectly.
He was accessing Starfleet data so it makes sense, that the interface would reflect that.
Exactly, different interfaces for different organizations.
Did you guys also realize that DS9 did a small preview of these LCARS during "The Visitor" when they were on the Defiant in the future and Dax made a comment that they have to get use to going back to the 2D work station. So this is internally consistent with prior Trek.
yes we knew this :) and have mentioned it before
The Locutus imposed shot over Picard's face was why they wanted justify the holo-LCARS
Would be cool if they weren't transparent. Makes sense since they're using the same hardlight tech as the EMS, right? They needed that Locutus overlay shot, though.
@Lady Wanderer that's a big assumption 🤣
Lady Wanderer The show isn't that bad, unless a person is intentionally looking for things to bitch about. I'm not saying it's great, old trek is definitely better, but it's good enough to keep my interest. It's not what trek was, but it's a new age and we need to just accept those days are over. I try to look at it through the glass of the fact that it's been better than almost every other popular sci fi franchise lately. This at least gets most of its facts right, while the rest like doctor who and star wars are absolutely destroying canon. Not the highest of praise, but it's something.
@Lady Wanderer Yeah, it sucks! I have to go into each new episode on drugs and liquor.
@Lady Wanderer its a shame youre not enjoying the show, because there are a lot of people that are, myself included, and it really seems that on a lot of online forums fan theory/friendly debate about lore/canon etc is being rejuvenated in a way i havent seen for quite some time, which im guessing you arent 'as' involved in as you could be, for your own reasons, but thats up to you. thats not to say that everyone agrees that the show is good, if we all agreed that would be boring and there wouldnt be debate. IDIC and all that...
one other thing i would say though is this; to say ''have better taste'' is pretty judgemental. taste is subjective, so whos to say that my idea of what is good or not is anymore or less valid than yours or anyone elses?
i hope you watch the whole thing though, it would be interesting to see your overall idea of the show when all episodes have aired :-)
@Lady Wanderer You just don't like anything do you? Always pissing on everyone's cornflakes.
"Have better taste". Get over yourself, you condescending sourpuss.
There was WIndows ,98, then there's WIndows 10. Same thing with LCARS.
I definitely noticed and appreciated the nod to the classic trek GUI
turns out having translucent screens is a nice cinematic tool
The issue I have with this display which I didn't realize until after my review was... Why was the one image of Locutus reversed so that it was facing where a visitor would be sitting in the office and not facing Picard? Our cellphones adjust based on their orientation but 24th century computers don't know where the person is sitting? Oh, wait... They wanted to get that awesome layover shot of Picard and Locutus. Once again, they sacrifice sense for shot.
Looking back they are actually pretty good.
I love the holographic displays! Do you remember what future Dax said!?
i remember
Was it future Dax or was it the doctor who said that? I remember they were married in that timeline and it was a conversation between the two.
Death By Design Graphics it was Dax to Bashir about how they used to manage with 2D controls
So it was Bashir that made the refrence. I couldn't remember what the actual reference was, but I knew it was relevant to the discussion. Pretty good for having hadn't seen it for almost a decade I think.
Went back to look at Commodore Oh using her display in Episode 2 when she's dressing down Rizzo for the attack on Dahj. It was our first taste of LCARS on the show and it is similar to what Picard is using here in this episode. Again, they do seem to use less color, but the design is there. You can see more of it in the wider shot that opens the scene (when Rizzo enters). It's not as prominent in the shots where Oh is showing the video of Dahj being attacked.
You're definitely right that the other displays we've been seeing haven't looked like that because they haven't been Starfleet displays.
Hello, everyone.
You don't have to reinvent the wheel, but you certainly can refurbish it.
awesome content
Still wondering if we'll see a modern Starfleet flagship vessel in this season of PIcard.
Let me know cos I stopped watching.
Not if they can avoid it. And if we do it would likely be a redress of the Discovery or Enterprise bridges
I think a future without holograms, looks cooler than a future with holograms, IMO.
I like the idea of holographic displays but they should not be transparent because it would hurt your eyes
Some people are completely against the Holo-displays. Now, in Discovery's case - I understand. The showrunners were adamant the show was "In Canon" and didn't want to commit to full on reboot, so they kinda set themselves up for critisism. This post TNG show, I like the idea too. They have Holodecks to play and do other proffessional tasks. I'd buy a holo display would likely be feasible. It takes about 1-2 seconds on a manual LCARS display to key in commands. (head cannon that LCARS are a "Shorthand" Command system, each is a Macro command pre-keyed in to a specific terminal. Getting around the Insurrection 2 key press HMS Pinafore thing) But a holographic display changes on the fly and adapts to your input and anticipates the next inquiry and you just need to flex and those Macros trigger leading to a more in depth and effecient system. Also it makes sense the Macros being tied to a system why you have designated consoles like Helm, Ops and Tactical and why time is needed to configure them. You need to key in the commands you need for that display. Yellow button usually brings up the duty roster on the XO panel with calander and awaiting new input. On a Tactical assignment? It needs re configuring so that yellow button takes you to shield harmonics or phaser control. So rather than key in the desired "session" you flick a wrist, maybe state "Tactical mode" and boom.
@@joegrimes9232 I wasn't complaining on the practicality of a holodisplay, just the resolution of one. There's a weapons why computer monitors aren't transparent and you can see the wall behind it. We CAN make them now, but for our eyes to focus on what's in front of us, the colors would need to be deeper. I don't want to watch a video and also SEE through the video
Then future Bashir's wry comment about how they ever coped with manual controls makes sense, his input and ability to just switch sessions and do whatever without neededing a few hours to reconfigure his workstation makes more sense. Also it put's O'Brien out of a plum job he had for years - Keying in Macros. Poor O'Brien
Oh no, no this wasn't a slight on anything you said. I agree with you lol. Please don't take an offense :)
@@joegrimes9232 I think the problem with that logic in Star Trek is DS9 was made back in the late 90s. Computers were not like they are today. Star Trek really did needed to catch up to how we imagine future computers would operate. But like I said, I am not against the concept of holographic displays that's touchable but they need to be not transparent for things like reading and watching videos
Personally I still would like a different color palette. Moreover I think these should be translucent rather than transparent. From a usability standpoint it would make far more sense.
I honestly kinda miss the old pre Lcars thing, as the TMP ships seemed much more mechanical and more real because of that with their buttons, as you gotta figure the more connected something is, the easier it is for someone to screw with it. and also, well are we typing on touchpad computers right now as we type? hell quite honestly what I would like to see is some sort of tech where a keyboard can be made to pop up out of a touch pad I pad type thing on the fly mixed in with the lcars to an extent like the old Jellybean controls of TOS
as if you've ever had to type or write with one of those pads, its very difficult to get a good feel out of it, and now your running a ship the size of a small country with it when it comes to the galaxy classes of TNG.
and if you think about it, how do you do quick movements with the controls without slamming the ship into something with a flat control with no feel, like you'd need like a gaming equivalent of a giant D pad just to really give the pilot any real control over the ship where the further he pushes towards the end, the faster or stronger it goes in that direction.
as that's the thing about the future, we already have the TNG touchpads, and they need some work and those physical controls back to really make them work.
as with any science fiction show, its a view of what that era thinks the futures gonna be, and I think that's gonna be the ticket, a hybrid of the two
although I wish we'd have a far less cynical and far more logical bunch of writers writing picard right now I must say, as the more you think about all the backup plans the romulans should have had, the harder the premise is to swallow.
as the last time I saw writing this bad Tom Paris had gone passed warp 10 with captain janeway and they turned into newts.
Yea! First view and comment! I noticed the better LCARS too
holographic displays LCARS are in new ship in Sto
OMG, something that looks like something from Trek, I should be thankful, really should. it's just difficult given the rest of the show. feels like a cosmetic renaming sticker slapped on something entirely different to attempt to sell it by proxy of the name. The LCARS does look good, if only it was in a show more optimistic and science fiction-like.
A transparent display works great for film or television. It lets you see the operator's face and the display at the same time. Much better than either cutting back and forth between the display and the face, or looking at the back of a person's head. It especially worked here when they overlapped Picard and Locutus. A great piece of camera/CGI work. In real life, it would be awful. Seeing what's behind the display would at best be distracting and at worst, it will confuse critical information. Sorry, I'm just a huge tech and Trek nerd.
Mind bogglingly busy LCARS isn't LCARS. Simplicity is key.
would be nice if this LCARS was everywhere, but as we saw, in most places something totally generic and not Star Trek like is used instead, when this would look so much better. I don't understand these producers
It is Starfleet technology though and average citizens might use something different. I think it's probably explainable enough to make sense in that way. I mean not all alien races would use LCARS either would they?
@@DeathBYDesign666 obviously, i was referring to other interfaces used by Starfleet, like for instance in first few episodes we saw ones that were not LCARS looking at all. I was thinking more if we were to see say a Starfleet ship or something else Starfleet related that they would use this LCARS interface, alien ships would obviously use something that would fit them, or civilian ships would use something other than LCARS as i see it like a Starfleet only operating system, and civilans would use something else, like today we got Windows, Linux, Mac and so on which are civilian operating systems and then there is military and such who use their own
Than you weren't being specific enough. It's important to articulate exactly what you mean. A simple correction like "used by Starfleet" would clear up such misunderstandings in the future.
they mirrored the shot of Locutus just because they wanted to superimpose it on him from the other side of the screen (for us) . also why did it have the enterprise D viewscreen in that shot . it felt like a lazy screen grab that doesn't make sense
The Captain's Tng Lcars, then his reflection is actually brilliant. I can almost imagine an alternate universe Season 8 of TNG where First Contact hasn't happened and now has the Borg return and in his ready room Picard does his research at first lingering on Hugh, reflecting on his decision to return him without the Virus, then as he ponders the implication of perhaps the annihilation of a species for his own, the image of Locutus pops up. .Disturbed, he sits for a moment, rubs his temple and shuts off the screen, the reflection of Picard in it's place. Promptly, he stands from his desk. Straightens his tunic and turns to the viewport, "Computer... Berlioz"
I'm largely indifferent about the use of LCARS. Yes, I prefer the aesthetics for a TNG-era computer control panel even if it's holographic, but do I believe it's mandatory? No. Computers ride the waves of fashion just like everything else. We've seen it through the different generations of operating systems over the decades, why not in Star Trek? Granted, by the time technology achieves the sophistication seen in Trek changes will likely occur much slower, but there will still be changes.
I just can't stand see-through holo displays. You lose so much detail, the two images are distracting, and nothing is in focus.
its preventing bulky boxy tech in front of people ... and allows more creative choices. i can accept it for these reasons.
@@BlodyTi It does neither and makes the show harder to see and thus harder to understand or connect. "Bulky" tech didn't hurt any other sci-fi show, and if you can barely make it out, whether creative choices you have are limited and ineffective.
Solution: just make the images solid. Just like every hologram in the older shows. Transition to opaque when the person needs to see through it or portions of it. Let the AUDIENCE see what they are looking at. And have a reason for everything on the screen...nothing random for the sake of looks.
@@SignoftheMagi I think Blody Ti may have been referring to the reason why holographic displays are used instead of monitors in this time period. If I could have a holography setup in lieu of flat-screen monitors, I would. Not only would it free up a ton of space on my desk but look much cleaner when not in use. There are functional reasons to prefer them. In regards to this episode, the effect from the face superposition scene would have been entirely lost if a standard opaque display was used.
But, your point is well taken. I would also want the holography to be as opaque as possible. Can't imagine professionals using Adobe Premiere or Photoshop with translucent displays, holographic or otherwise. It would be impractical to impossible for a number of reasons. I expect these holographic displays are adjustable in levels of transparency. We'll see if that is shown in future episodes.
Nobody seems to recall that this actually is a part of future star trek canon. Remember back to the episode of ds9 when Jake had to save his father from being stuck in time. It's a short line of dialogue, but the doctor mentions to Dax about having to remember how to operate the standard displays and having gotten used to using holographic interfaces instead.
@@DeathBYDesign666 That is so obscure a reference unless someone watched the episode you're referring to recently it would have been quickly forgotten. Great you remembered that dialogue.
A real screen with you seeing his reflection and his reaction would be far nicer. IMHO holographic displays like this are OK...but the semi-transparent nature causes so much to be lost, especially in a brighter environment. Just imagine actually trying to use a display like that for anything - forget glare, even having any lights on would wash out any dark scenes to being completely invisible. Holo controls/displays only work where you just need bright manipulation areas and the dark or empty negative space allows for better visibility. For what he was doing, definitely not. I can only imaging the headache one would get after a few hours trying to look at that sort of thing for reading and actually trying to research anything at all.
Oh, come on! Computer displays are always changing, whenever there are new system updates. That should not matter. "Oh, but that's not 'Star Trek' enough!" Ugh.
It's a logical style dude. If you don't like that, quit watching and move on
@@thaynealexander The audience was asked for his or her opinion, and I gave MINE. Also, the TNG LCARS preference is just that: a preference. It has nothing to do with "logic".
That show sucks
This show sucks.